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You’re meant to sit on the crossbench, not the fence

Leo Shanahan

by Leo Shanahan

15 Oct 06:00am

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Filed under: Murray Darling, Parliament, Politics, Tony Windsor, Water

87 comments

Independent MP Tony Windsor yesterday continued what is becoming a pattern of rather cryptic and fencing sitting statements. 

When you're everyone's friend you're no-one's friend. Tony Windsor in Parliament House. Picture: Kym Smith

He told The Australian that he wasn’t sure he supported the Murray Darling Basin plan to buy back 3000-4000 gigalitres of water from irrigators, and that perhaps the Government should look at other methods to return water to the system like diverting water from other areas.

This is a perfectly legitimate stance, although it was his other comment about the likelihood of any legislation on the plan succeeding in Parliament that is confusing. Windsor told The Australian and later the ABC that he didn’t think any legislation would see “the light of day” in this Parliament:

Journalist: Do you think that the Murray-Darling Basin plan, as it stands, will ever be implemented?

Windsor: Well we’ve spent 100 years talking about some of this stuff.

I’d suggest that there’s a reasonable chance that it probably won’t see the light of day this term of parliament.

Once a lot of the politics, etc, kick in, and that will be a shame in a lot of ways because there is an issue that needs addressing,” he told the AM program.

Windsor makes this observation like some kind of disinterested observer, pointing out the politics of the thing will just make it unworkable. He briefs us like a foreign correspondent who’s just been asked by his bureau chief in Rotterdam what the feeling is like in Australia at moment.

The weird thing about this statement is Windsor seems to forget that, following the election, he’s someone with a great deal of power to make things happen one way or the other. As if somehow the plan were to fail it would be the fault of the Machievillian construct of evil politics that he had no control over.

Windsor appears to be objecting to a rather central recommendation of the Basin report – which many in the bush would happily back him on – and with the same breath seems to say it would be a shame if the report didn’t get up in Parliament.

To rework a phrase: Windsor is walking both sides of the river.

There’s a similarly baffling level of acceptance of Parliamentary inertia on Windsor’s behalf when it comes to the climate change committee. 

Windsor sits on the Prime Minister’s committee investigating ways to implement a carbon price or tax. It’s a committee that by definition accepts the need for a carbon price - and Windsor makes all the right noises about the need for a carbon price to address global warming - but Windsor actually never says he backs one.

Here’s Windsor on the 7:30 Report late last month:

Kerry O’Brien: Do you believe unequivocally that there should be a price on carbon?

Windsor: I think there will be globally at some time in the future and I think – the way I’m addressing this – but I think there’s a bit of a mistake there to come up with a predestined decision and then have a procedure over twelve months to come to that decision . . . I think when people say price they think of emissions trading or they think carbon tax. That doesn’t necessarily have to follow.

In other words: I accept that there will be a carbon price but I won’t fight for one. I’ll sit on a committee that accepts the need for one, but I won’t back it.

Windsor of course has every right to object to a carbon price, it’s just that he doesn’t appear to back himself to say it. That would mean taking a stance, and taking a stance on it could run contrary to the nice noises he’s been making about a need for action on global warming.

This would all be fine if Windsor was in his old inconsequential cross-bench position, but the election has left him with the balance of power in the new Parliament. He and the other independents are also in the habit of reminding us every 20 minutes that Australia voted for this outcome so we should make it work.

You can’t embrace the philosophy of the new paradigm and then blame old politics when you’re one who could make a difference. Tag Tony – you’re it.

Yesterday the Government announced Windsor would chair a new inquiry into the Murray-Darling basin plan’s impact on regional communities. It will be interesting to see whether he uses this position to come up with a stance, or further construct his Byzantine reasoning that allows him not to support or oppose anything. 

We know that Windsor stood for more money for hospitals and infrastructure for his constituency, but that’s kind of the political equivalent of saying as a human being I stand for the intake of oxygen, nutrients and a periodic sleep in.

There is something in Windsor’s behaviour that people should be wise to in all the cross-benchers in this term: blaming a do-nothing Parliament on the clashes of the major parties when they aren’t actually backing either side for the purposes of political expediency.

Whether Windsor and the other independents like it or not, sitting on the cross-bench no longer means you can sit on the fence.

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87 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • Peter Oataway, Hay, NSW says:

      05:44am | 15/10/10

      He has taken a position Leo..currently againt the Murray Darling economic destruction plan much like the Nationals have. We know the Greens are for it, its the Adelaide ass licking Labor and Liberal parties who are currently trying to walk both sides of the steet.

      Reply

    • Will says:

      06:02am | 15/10/10

      Windsor has shown that he is capable of making a decision - when he really HAS to - such as siding with labour as he did and citing the NBN as the main reason.
      You might see him as a fence sitter, but he might also be trying deliberately NOT to make a decision until he really has to, so as not to abuse the position of power that he finds himself landed in.
      What you see as fence sitting might just be humility…

      Reply

    • Old Clive says:

      07:18am | 15/10/10

      He should have investigated that one a little bit more thoroughly too, the NBN fiasco is not over by a long shot as more information comes to light and people become aware that you have to link into a plug before you can get it, and probably pay a whole lot money for the privilege.

    • The Badger says:

      08:03am | 15/10/10

      Old Clive
      What?
      There’s been an NBN fiasco?
      Do tell us what you have discovered.

      I mean besides the fact that you have to connect into the network and pay for using it.

    • Joan says:

      08:32am | 15/10/10

      Decisive?...no. Ditherer yes- Only took him 17 days to take Labor side and just cos he thought Liberals would go to an early election and NBN. The guy at sixty years of age admits he has no computer skills… that`s really slow , behind times…he`s . probably still working out pros and cons of computer use. This slow, ditherer, last century man Windsor has been appointed by Gillard to chair a new inquiry into the Murray-Darling basin plan’s impact on regional communities- he has already said that he did not expect a resolution to the process in this electoral term, ending in 2013.. Another gab fest,  led at Windsor snail mail pace. Gillard is a disgrace outsourcing all important future directions - Carbon tax , water management for Australia to the likes of Greens, Windsor, Oakeshott. Gillard shows she is no leader and Labor pollies not fit to be the government

    • Mick says:

      08:51am | 15/10/10

      But, Tony Windsor has a friendly face.

    • Claire says:

      08:52am | 15/10/10

      Just because he made one decision about one (albeit important) thing in the past, doesn’t make him a decisive person. Fence-sitting isn’t humility, it’s gutlessness. Stand for a belief in something, that’s what politicians are meant to do.

    • Nicole says:

      10:03am | 15/10/10

      @Joan, my sentiments exactly. I can just picture him using one of those old typewriters with the red and black ribbon, and using two bits of paper with a piece of carbon copy in between.

    • The Badger says:

      10:32am | 15/10/10

      Nicole
      That’s why he wants the NBN. At present, his electorate has to type up their letters and use snail mail.

    • Roja says:

      11:06am | 15/10/10

      I know another ditherer that refused to change anything until it became clear it was absolutely necessary.  His name was John Howard. 

      I prefer a politician that measures change and takes it slowly, rather than a knee-jerk reactionary fool that jumps according to the polls.  Pity the former doesn’t exist any more, perhaps with the exception of the last conviction politician left - Nick Xenophon.

    • Joan says:

      12:05pm | 15/10/10

      What surprises me is that Windsor is the best talent that Labor can come up with for this crucial policy developement…  is Windsor really best person for job???? He has already left decision making till 2013….. remember he has said he won’t be around after that… Windsor expects people affected to remain in limbo as he did with the electorate. It is an outrage..

    • Macca says:

      06:24am | 15/10/10

      I said when Windsor and the other Independents made their decision to back the ALP that they would come under a far greater level of scrutiny than they had ever experienced before.

      In the case of Windsor, his inability to back a particular point of view is beginning to paint the picture that he is not up for this scrutiny.

      Considering this is his last term, he seems more concerned with protecting his own reputation than attempting to achieve something that will be beneficial for future Australians

      Reply

    • The Badger says:

      09:13am | 15/10/10

      Macca
      I agree
      If Leo thinks he should have made his decision by now, then Leo must be right.

      I wonder if anyone told him decision was past due?

    • Andrew says:

      06:29am | 15/10/10

      I feel sorry for the poor guy releasing and fronting the meetings. Wasn’t it the Government who asked for the independent enquiry? Maybe I’m wrong? If it was the Government seeking the information then shouldn’t they also be present at these meetings? Where’s Tony Burke or the PM? So they send out Windsor now to try and keep distance from the issue. If the Government are serious about this issue they should show their face at these meetings.

      Reply

    • MarK says:

      10:45am | 15/10/10

      Correct on everything.

      But good news. We know have an enquiry and another committee into this current enquiry and committee.

      I love government Labor style.

    • Isabel says:

      06:42am | 15/10/10

      It is surely better than him bragging about what he is going to do then blaming others for his lack of success?

      Reply

    • Joan says:

      09:10am | 15/10/10

      Gillard who said Labor - lost its way- now seeks to give it direction from the guy that beats around the bush Windsor. Pathetic. If the guy doesn’t know he shouldn’t be there. Thank heavens the man`s not a doctor or dentist….. the man a dithering waffler qualities - your standards for a pollie are very low, lower than what you expect of a doctor… or perhaps a quack is sufficient for you… would seem for many that is enough.

    • Jane says:

      08:07am | 15/10/10

      My question is how come the Government didn’t think about the “social and economic” out comes before now. Surely they must of been aware of the social backlash that would occur?

      Reply

    • Reg says:

      10:50am | 15/10/10

      Perhaps similar to the backlash caused by turning the Murray into a pond and we’ve got plenty of dithering doctors, allow me to introduce you to a few. Anyhow the farmers will have a sympathetic rural independent to hear their dithering views. It sounds like a recipe for a hung-fest.

      May we ugly townsfolk assume that all steps to reduce evaporation have been taken? Yes?

    • farmer jack says:

      02:02am | 16/10/10

      It was set up in legislation by the Howard gov’t to consider environment.  Too many people jump on ignorant bandwaggons.  The social and environment were not in the terms of reference for this guide to the environment, as set by Howard gov’t.  Socio-eccon can now be considered as part of the whole ongoing process towards a draft plan. Gillard govt seems to be handling it well and carefully, dare I say.

    • Jenny says:

      08:07am | 15/10/10

      I would rather Windsor sit on the bank of a river than jump in hit his head on a submerged log., aka Abbott, then blame the river for hiding the log. Windsor will actually consider the issues, how responsible of him.

      Reply

    • The Badger says:

      10:35am | 15/10/10

      Abbott would blame Labor for the log being there and then pay his mates countless billions to identify the location of all the other hidden logs.

    • Nicole says:

      03:18pm | 15/10/10

      That’s because probably would have planted it there.

    • JaneS says:

      04:27pm | 15/10/10

      Actually, Badger, that sounds more like Labor’s BER fund.  How many billions wasted / funnelled now? I’ve lost count.

    • Farkurnell says:

      10:36pm | 15/10/10

      @Janes why do people keep saying the BER was wasted.I got to vote for this govt. at the new BER hall they installed,and what about all those happy tuck-shop mums .I call that money well spent.

      Leo, I don ‘t think you appreciate the irony of Joolz appointing TW to head the review of the MDA ,as the original report was established by Howard supported by Rudd in opposition,and opposed in the parliament by only one MP -Tony Windsor.

    • Farmer says:

      08:25am | 15/10/10

      This is EXACTLY the reason the Nationals wouldn’t endorse him years ago: he makes a lot of noise about himself but doesn’t have the strength of his convictions. Please don’t feel sorry for the guy, Andrew, he is the one who railed against the resumption of agricultural land by foreign owned mines and then promptly sold out to them after the election. The implementation of carbon taxes et al do not affect him any more: he has no vested interest in anything agricultural. The only thing that Judas Windsor is interested in is feathering his own nest - but the damage he has done in his own electorate is far-reaching.

      As an ‘independant’ politician in Australia, you can promise the world without ever having to deliver.

      Reply

    • T.Chong says:

      09:04am | 15/10/10

      Farmer, as someone who resides in proximity to Windsors domain, I would like to know what “damage he has done in his own electorate.”
      Far reaching ?, It must be pretty bad. Some examples .Please.
      As for agricultural land v miners, I reckon you must be pretty relieved Abbott, Palmer, Forrest et al , didnt get their way, otherwise the Liverpool plains would now be an open pit.

    • majority says:

      08:54am | 15/10/10

      What a surprise, the farmers and the Greens have hugely different priorities regarding water usage and the river systems. Who could have guessed this would happen?? You are a fool Tony Windsor.

      Reply

    • Wayne Fehlhaber says:

      08:58am | 15/10/10

      Tony Windsor as an independent M.P. is not worth a cracker.  Now that the real pressure of his chosen position weighs on him he shifts into neutral in an effort to appease everyone. Australia will be the loser with this loser holding the balance of power . Nothing will be acted upon after the decisions are made in Labor’s backrooms simply because Windsor does not want to be seen as the M.P. who gives Labor the green light on contentious issues like a Carbon price and the Murray-Darling basin plan.
      He does not wan’t to be associated with the negative impact on regional communities affected by the plan, particularly when his own electorate would tear him apart on the issue. On a carbon price he says he accepts the need but won’t back it. Where does this leave the Labor minority government. ?  Catch 22 .  Government under this arrangement will grind to a halt. 
      In short , Windsor refuses to take responsibility in any way shape or form for his position as government maker.
      Let’s move on to Oakshott next , something tells me we will see the same picture.  Independents ,  no direction , no vision , no loyalties , nothing but 17 days of glory as government makers and limelight seekers.
      Not worth twopence.

      Reply

    • The Badger says:

      06:25pm | 15/10/10

      Wayne
      Whats a twopence?

    • Windsor/Oakshott wolves in sheep clothing clothing says:

      10:59am | 16/10/10

      Yes Wayne , Windsor and Oakshott are the biggest users of the political system, both of them bludged on the National Party to get their profiles out there, used their money to make themselves known and then threw tantrums when they did not get the top jobs. National Party members got it right voting for Mark Vale and John Anderson and not these two self absorbed phonies. Two pence is too much for them Wayne. Fencesitters for their own personal gain.

    • Wayne Fehlhaber says:

      02:00pm | 16/10/10

      The Badger :  Sorry matey , i always forget i’m a dinosaur dealing with kiddies.

    • Troy says:

      09:00am | 15/10/10

      With power comes responsibility.
      The independents were just in it for a pay cheque and a bit of added notoriety once it became a hung parliament.  Will be interesting to see if Windsor can do some actual work in his last term and make policy,

      Reply

    • Will says:

      06:21pm | 15/10/10

      “With power comes responsibility”
      Exactly my point Troy. Thankyou. Windsor realises this - that is why he isn’t rushing in like a bull at a gate and trying to impose his will. It’s not fence sitting, it’s providing as much room as possible for the normal democratic process to occur.
      Any person in Windsor’s position would be wise to hold out as long as possible before committing to anything.

    • James Darby says:

      09:03am | 15/10/10

      Revenge only has a purpose if it is profitable and as I understand it revenge is handled by a higher Order. Tony Windsor is a man of the people. Like Spartacus he leads his people to doom, where he hopes fast internet will save them. What a shambles of a man to have let Gillard the Greens and Brown of the Reds run Australia. The revenge I speak of is the payback to the National Party for disendorsing him for copping a PCA.

      Reply

    • The Badger says:

      12:13pm | 15/10/10

      And like Spartacus, he slew the evil Batiatus (Abbott), who cared only for riches and fame.

    • whisperer says:

      09:06am | 15/10/10

      If Tony Windsor is the best candidate for his electorate (the peoples elected representative)then the future for his electorate is very grim indeed.Listening to him brings back the old saying ,‘if you cant dazzle them with brilliance ,baffle them with bullshit.’

      Reply

    • Joan says:

      01:40pm | 15/10/10

      Gillard thinks Windsor has the got talent as she continues appoint the man - ,‘if you cant dazzle them with brilliance ,baffle them with bullshit.’ - now I understand Gillards logic

    • nosthow says:

      09:19am | 15/10/10

      The problem of course for Tony Windsor is umm err umm err - geez now I am sounding like Tony Abbott ! No Windsor has no problems and is sailing clear holding his seat by a mega 70% after preferences are counted. Windsor is a smart man - he went with Labor as he knows Labor are going to contribute Infrastructure whereas Abbott The Wrecker and his ragged band are just out to wreck. I think Gillard will be smart enough to use Windsors skills in the next 3 years. Of course had Windsor had a brainsnap and gone with Abbott the Coalition would now be declaring him a genius ! How sweet it is !

      Reply

    • Diane says:

      10:03am | 15/10/10

      Oh yes don’dt forget to mention “Abbott the wrecker” somewhere in your comment even though this article has nothing to do with him.

    • CynicalGoat WA says:

      10:30am | 15/10/10

      70% hold of his seat after preferences…......I’ve got $5 that says that whenever the next election is held, that 70% figure will hold up as well as Rudd’s 70% newspoll popularity figure.
      If there’s one thing that you can take to the bank out of this whole minority government debacle it’s that Windsor and Oakeshott will decide that it’s time to ride off into the sunset when the next election is called and bow out of politics, because they wont want to face the humiliation of what their overwhelmingly conservative leaning electorates will do to them next time round.

    • Aitch B says:

      10:48am | 15/10/10

      @nosthow

      You obviously didn’t hear Gillard ‘umm err umm err’ her way through a press conference yesterday. Abbott’s got nothing on your Jools, mate!!!

    • iansand says:

      10:58am | 15/10/10

      CynicalGoat - No one will take your bet.  Windsor has already said he is not standing.

    • TimB says:

      12:03pm | 15/10/10

      I think Nosthow has a secret man-crush on Abbott. After all, Tony appears to be on his mind constantly.

      @ iansand, that might be so for Windsor, but he’s right about Oakeshott- He’s gone next time around. Chalk an extra seat up there for the Nationals.

    • nosthow says:

      12:06pm | 15/10/10

      @Diane - pleasure Diane - glad you are a happy girlie !

    • MarK says:

      10:11am | 15/10/10

      I love the part about the new committee to investigate the committee that is tasked with investigating and consulting the people about the Murray Plan.

      So we now have two committees. One committee doing the Plan stuff and one committee doing stuff to check what the committee to check the plan is doing.

      This of course is awesome.

      This of course shows Julia’s excellent negotiating skills.

      This of course means Gillard is trying to further distance herself from any fallout by whacking another committee between her and a decision.

      Cowardly leadership. Typical. Boorish. Seen it all before. Promise the world and deliver nothing. All with the help of her yes men. Should be a fun few years. Enjoy the boondoggles and delay.

      Reply

    • C1 says:

      11:44am | 15/10/10

      MarkK,

      You also fogot to add that they will blame it on the Howard Government as they set the thing up in the first place. They way this government is going they will get another dozen years mileage from the last Liberal Government

    • Dave says:

      10:14am | 15/10/10

      More dithering & posturing! Will those who gave their vote creating an unprecedented era of ineptitude & instability, still blame the opposition for the pain we’ll suffer by the end of this Govt’s term? Btw Peter Oataway if you feel compelled to denigrate people, please don’t do so in such a foul mouthed fashion, it doesn’t make for a healthy debate.

      Reply

    • Reg says:

      10:37am | 15/10/10

      “Like diverting water from other areas”?  Why? So someone else can pay for the over-capitalization that the farmers of the Murray have been doing for decades. Systematically wrecking the system for their own benefit.

      I’m not a greenie but abuse is pretty easy to identify by the bruises.

      Reply

    • Anjuli says:

      10:44am | 15/10/10

      WE have no water but never mind we will have the NBN , why not put all that money to bringing a pipe line from other sources where gigilitres are flowing into the ocean.

      Reply

    • majority says:

      12:01pm | 15/10/10

      or better still, funnel water down the NBN conduits. Add a NBN connection to every fruit tree in the Murray-Darling. Fibre doesnt rust, no problem. Wouldn’t cost much more.

    • The Badger says:

      12:42pm | 15/10/10

      Yes,
      Screw everything downstream and just divert the water to wherever you want. So Australians everywhere can water their European gardens filled with plants from the “old world”.
      We could irrigate the great deserts of Australia and grow sand plants to feed to our burgeoning population.
      We could force feed so much down the Murray / Darling that it would choke and then vomit over the farmers fields.
      People could also send messages in bottles down the pipe to their recipients. 
      Wait, is this the backbone solution to the NBN that action man Abbott is proposing?  A very clever plan indeed.

    • Dazeddazza says:

      10:55am | 15/10/10

      Its people like these (on both sides of politics) that display a lack of vision.  The Murray-Darling Basin issue and other major progressive changes will never be addressed while we lack men of integrity, and the will to plan for the long term future of our country.

      Reply

    • Reg says:

      12:08pm | 15/10/10

      OK Dazeddazza where’s your vision? We’ve been through diverting the Fitzroy and the Burdeken down the Darling because there’d be nothing left after soakage and evaporation,... apart for robbing the barrier Reef of its what-ever….  Perhaps the users have become abusers? It must be at least 5 years since I’ve seen a sprinkler on a Sydney lawn. Even now with 57% in the dam.  Too many farms in one place and not enough in the other perhaps? Same for the cities.

    • Gregg says:

      11:10am | 15/10/10

      ” To rework a phrase: Windsor is walking both sides of the river. “
      To do some more reworking Leo, I reckon in all walks of life there’s the dumb, the too smart by half, the snake oil salespersons and the forked tongue speakers.

      I was a townhall type meeting a decade or so back when a fresher faced Joe Hockey and the then Speaker of the House were doing something of a travelling side show on politics and policies.
      It was about the time when farmers in the riverland were letting oranges drop and rot a season or so before the bulldozers moved in courtesy of Brazillian juice concentrate shipping as part of our WTO level playing field.

      I asked the question as to how was it to be measured whether level playing field policies were going to be good or bad for the country?
      Answer: You are paying less for it ain’t you!
      Too smart by half!

      Not long after I recall one of those best treasurers we could ever be blessed with, Peter Costello being asked about Telstra having their Call Centres operated from India and the loss of 500 jobs in Australia.
      His answer: They cannot do that can they!; I’ll have to have a look into that!
      Pretty damm dumb in my book
      A mix of too smart by half and pretty damm dumb does not auger well for Australia.

      But then we have Labor and Labor have some interesting views, our PM for instance feeling we should have a target of 40% of the population achieving University level education whether we will have jobs for them or not and with the demise generally of agriculture and industry I suppose we had better find something for them to do that cannot be done cheaper abroad.
      But it’s the job market per se where you will always have Labor selling that that it’s the Coalition who will give you poorer working conditions but never anything about what needs to happen to save real jobs other than create a new program and be dammed the expense for we will just find a new fat cow like greater tax on resources because they are going gang busters, well just at the moment or at least there are some projects being developed with high finance and on the premise of projected sales.
      Lets hope China is not dragged into that US/European Chasm!

      You can ask whether that’s a good mix of dumbness, being too smart and a bit of cunning rolled in too to sell plenty of snake oil.

      And so we come to water supplies and the Royal House of Windsor!
      Now we could accuse Tony of speaking with forked tongue and we may be right for being a rural man himself, though his electorate is not sitting in an irrigation area, a lot of it is under threat by coal mining interests heading further west from the Hunter region.

      But is there not a touch of cunning in having Tony Windsor chairing a committee with this massive country problem.
      Let the country lad handle the country problem, and why not get him on my Carbon Tax committee too by hell.

      And so the use of the Murray/Darling basin water is to be determined on the basis of what is best for the environment and whilst we should be looking after the environment the best we can amidst droughts and floods, why are we not working towards better harvesting, storage and management of what Nature gives us at a time of flooding rains.

      Is it not so much dumber than dumb not to be doing that so both the environment can benefit and farmers will also have a more reliable water supply.

      Where do people think the nation’s food is going to come from, out of a Fibre Optic Cable or from a Carbon Tax!

      Yeah, there’s a heap of dumbness, too smart and cunning all leading to the speaking with forked tongue not by just Tony Windsor.

      Reply

    • bernie says:

      11:15am | 15/10/10

      The guy is a boofhead. heard him on 3TR this morning i had trouble understanding what he is on about. just doesnt give a straight answer. cracks it when he gets a question he doesnt want to answer. frankly i can’t see him disagreeing with labour on any issue. just scary to think he has this power.

      Reply

    • Jim says:

      11:18am | 15/10/10

      I lived in Windsors electorate for about 8 months, it’s a nice place. Didn’t take too much notice of the politics while I was there as I was too busy trying to scratch together $1800 to pay for a months electricity in the middle of an Armidale winter.
      But to me he sounds like someone who now realises he made a mistake (or had the wool pulled over his eyes) but cannot make a stand as he is effectively ‘owned’ by whatever backroom deals were put to him.
      The first week after the election he was very assured and confident in what he did…after that he became very meek.

      Reply

    • The Badger says:

      12:55pm | 15/10/10

      $1800 for a months electricity?
      How big is your commune?

    • acker says:

      01:55pm | 15/10/10

      @Jim says >>>$1800 for a months electricity in an Armidale winter<<<

      Jim that must be one hell of a heater !!!

    • Mattb says:

      06:49pm | 15/10/10

      Man up and put a jumper on Jim, ya sook…..

    • Jim says:

      08:23pm | 15/10/10

      I’d moved from the tropical north into the New England winter, wasn’t pleasant. And in QLD bills are a LOT cheaper.

    • Tezza says:

      11:20am | 15/10/10

      “Diverting water from other areas”. Not sure what Tony means by this, but I’ve been thinking that some way of bringing water to the West from the Eastern slopes of the Great Dividing Range could be a solution. For a start: it rains a lot there - the ranges in the far north of NSW are covered in rainforest, and huge amounts of water run off to the sea in rivers like the Tweed. You would have to build a few dams on the eastern side of the range, and bore some diversion tunnels to take the water inland. But hey, isn’t that exactly what we did with the Snowy Mountains scheme?
      Before all the nay sayers start to shout that it can’t be done, it’s too expensive, it will damage the environment, ask yourself if our grandfathers could do it in the forties and fifties, is it so impossible for us to do it now? The government is spending billions of dollars on buying water rights. Surely building a new dam near the NSW Queensland border should be part of the mix?

      Reply

    • Molly Daveson says:

      06:15pm | 16/10/10

      All we need to do is implement the Bradfield Dam Scheme, which every Government since 1942 has studiously avoided doing. The MD farmers need to take a class action out against all levels of Governments since that Scheme was offered to them.

    • Betelnut says:

      11:26am | 15/10/10

      Shallow journalism begets shallow politics.

      A major report has just come out addressing one of the most difficult environmental sustainability issues that Australia has seen in the last 20 years. The problem has frustrated three federal and countless state governments and has enormously complex implications in terms of environmental versus social costs that need to be examined.

      Do we get articles explaining the basis of the reports and urging our politicians to undertake a considered and multi-party discussion to come up with the best outcome for Australia?  No, we get undergraduate writing urging people to pick a side and barrack like crazy.  Those that don’t are fence sitters….

      What a waste of bandwidth.

      Reply

    • MarK says:

      03:33pm | 15/10/10

      Yeh exactly we should be straight on this given AGW is such a HUUUUUGE threat to the MDB.

      I mean it was only a few years ago the whole basin was going to be so saline only a McDonalds french fry could survive it.

      Miraculous recovery though. Big well done to the CSIRO having had one scientific ecological scare campaign debunked have move onto the next.

      it is so gratifying to see our science dollars at work like this. You know. If AGW doesn’t cause droughts it causes rains or it gets colder. Awesome stuff AGW. Explains everything the weather can do.

      I worship at the altar of the one true religion.

      Anyway Betelnut didn’t you see Gillard is all over this? She announced a committee to look at it. That’ll fix er up quick smart.

      Problem solved. Report will be put shortly after the next federal election deadline. Sought of like the batt report. Amazing coincidence that.

    • Betelnut says:

      04:45pm | 15/10/10

      @MarK

      I didn’t mention AGW at all in my post and think the environmental challenges in the MDB are not only self-evident, but have been well characterised over many years by multiple governments.

      Yet you respond with this amazing verbal pastiche of smoke and BS.

      Now run along MarK.  When your capacity for intelligent, rational, civil and most importantly, independent thought catches up to your enthusiasm for posting, I shall be happy to continue the discussion.

    • jane says:

      12:27pm | 15/10/10

      Burke, Gillard or Crean should have been at these meetings, it’s their inquiry. Now the same has happened with the home insulation report announced today. No Government Ministers to be seen anywhere again. Cowards…..........

      Reply

    • Randal says:

      01:05pm | 15/10/10

      Windsor has been exposed as the do nothing wind bag that he has always been, it has just been covered in the past by sitting as Independent in a parliament with no influence.

      Now he has the balance of power but is performing in the exact same way, as that is Tony Windsor, he is a man of no substance and is no talk and even less action.

      The miracle was that he came to a decision at all after the election and that the 17 painful was not longer, as his preference has always been the type to cough and laugh and say absolutely nothing and in this new parliament little has changed.

      Reply

    • Reg says:

      02:15pm | 15/10/10

      Just a little off topic if you’ll forgive me Randal. This sounds exactly the description yesterday of the Commonwealth of Nations failure to intervene is situations of abuse etc etc.  That so much more was being achieved by passive means. Yes I don’t believe it either but I can’t help thinking how OLD world and how very BRITISH. A Keating this man is not. Nor do I believe he is achieving anything by his disarming smile and drooping eyelids. Those irrigators asked for this, and now they’re going to get it. Can we expect daily reports on progress I wonder? smile

    • Jay says:

      02:02pm | 15/10/10

      It is time that people in Melbourne start to understand the pressures that the people in the bush are feeling as we may be joing them in a few years when our food prices sky rocket. The Greens sit in their Ivory Tower and deliver their policies and refuse to eye ball the people it will destroy.They are happy to go to their vegeterian dinner parties and preach to the converted.Just remember Adolf Hitler was a non drinker, non smoker was a vegetarian and loved his dog more than people. He would have fiited in well with the Greens.

      Reply

    • Democrat says:

      02:03pm | 15/10/10

      Actually Leo I think listening to Windsor he makes far more sense than does this article.  I realise the brief is to knock the Independents but this is a very poor effort in that regard. Memo: Windsor doesn’t have that much power - he only has one vote.  For him to be on the winning side on any vote in the Parliament he has to have 75 other people vote with him.  Even with every vote form one of the major parties he can’t get his own way.  His comment on anything happening in this parliament is unlikely would seem to reflect this mathematical fact
      In determining that something needs to be done about water usage in the Murray Darling would seem obvious as we will need to keep irrigators going - and at an expanding rate in the years to come.  The question is how that is to be managed while ensuring the river flows.  He has indicated, if you managed to keep up with all his interview, a number of possibilities that are not contained in the recent report that could allow this to happen.  He has shown a willingness to keep an open mind on these possibilities and to examine all options.  It is a shame the narrow focus of your article doesn’t reflect this.

      Reply

    • gus kohn says:

      02:27pm | 15/10/10

      Mr Windsor does not mind foreign companies buying the water rights,or does he?

      Reply

    • Green Damage says:

      02:47pm | 15/10/10

      A pathetically incompetent trio:  Windsor, Greens and Labor. Water flowing and flooding every Australian nook and cranny - and Labor/Green/Independant economics gearing up to totally ruin our country on almost every policy they meddle with.  And that’s not the beginning:  pink batts, school halls, green loans—- their record is unconscionable.
      Green economics are worse than their politics and we’ll all live to regret they ever fooled some of the people some of the time. Wait and see what they have in store—- and they will wield their hold over Gillard every step of the way until the people have had their gutfull too late.
      I just wish there was some way that the Labor minority government Ministers could be forced to properly answer parliamentary questions put to them.  For anyone so inclined to do the research, the list of unanswered questions is worthy of exposure.
      And as conveniently non-committal as Windsor is, the other night Tony Jones attempted to get Chris Bowen to spell out exactly when, how and the estimated cost to us of Labor’s “big plans” for a regional processing centre, despite the fact that our neighbours believe the Australian government is bullying them.  Bowen sounded like he was following a standard diversionary pattern - babble nonsense to delay public scrutiny for as long as possible.

      Reply

    • Senexx says:

      04:09pm | 15/10/10

      Leo Shanahan has provided no evidence to back up his statements.  He has made subjective statements and asserted this is the case.

      Leo asserts “he’s someone with a great deal of power to make things happen one way or the other” and this is true but Leo implies that Tony Windsor has sole power to make it happen one way or the other - “You can’t embrace the philosophy of the new paradigm and then blame old politics when you’re one who could make a difference. Tag Tony – you’re it.”. 

      We have a multi-party parliament where much negotiation, compromise and even politicking will go on before we can get a result.

      Shanahan’s subjective assertiveness is demonstrably false.

      We can’t have a result yesterday, if today’s crop of politicians wont have gone through the motions until tomorrow.

      Reply

    • Gregg says:

      06:28pm | 15/10/10

      Perhaps Senexx, you’ve attempted to sex up a bit what Leo has reported and all he has is what has come forth from TW as I’m not too sure what will happen but do not ask me for I am just chairing a committee and when you get:
      ” Journalist: Do you think that the Murray-Darling Basin plan, as it stands, will ever be implemented?

      Windsor: Well we’ve spent 100 years talking about some of this stuff.
      I’d suggest that there’s a reasonable chance that it probably won’t see the light of day this term of parliament.

      Once a lot of the politics, etc, kick in, and that will be a shame in a lot of ways because there is an issue that needs addressing,” he told the AM program. “
      and
      Here’s Windsor on the 7:30 Report late last month:
      Kerry O’Brien: Do you believe unequivocally that there should be a price on carbon?

      Windsor: I think there will be globally at some time in the future and I think – the way I’m addressing this – but I think there’s a bit of a mistake there to come up with a predestined decision and then have a procedure over twelve months to come to that decision . . . I think when people say price they think of emissions trading or they think carbon tax. That doesn’t necessarily have to follow. “

      Leo’s follow up comments to both you can either like or not but there’s hardly any great inspiration he gives for either matter and especially with Gillard’s committee to determine the best way forward for a carbon tax and he thinks that is not a good idea!, but it’s sort of lets go along with it anyway and see what happens.

      Whilst it is OK to have a certain ammount of openess in respect to considering all relevant aspects of a topic you are going to be involved with, as a parliamentary committee person and especially as chair you would hope as a peoples representative at the highest level one would be more involved and more knowledgeable, more inspiring on what the steps are in developing an approach to issues that are two of the most important that Australia and Australians have to deal with.

      If we get less than mediocre performance form those that should be doing one hell of a lot more, then we more or less rely on our media to put the spotlight on such people and that is what Leo has done.

    • MarK says:

      09:15pm | 15/10/10

      “Leo Shanahan has provided no evidence to back up his statements.  He has made subjective statements and asserted this is the case.”

      Goddam you are a smart cookie.

      You happen to catch the 2010 election? You know the one where two idiots from northern NSW wasted 17 days to cover up the fact they wanted to shaft the nationals for personal reasons and vote labor?

      Weeeeellllll if you missed it Windsor was one of them. Sort of holds the balance of power in the “new paradigm dolphin crystal and group hug parliament”.

      Windsor, the guy retiring in 3 years without a care in the world on a fat pension, is a kingmaker. Gillard has to crawl and fawn to him. Hell the guy that works in the Treasury for Henry ...ummm Swan….BOWS to him.

      I mean T Windsor is a certified Big Swinging Dick. You know what the evidence is….the ability to count.

      Phrases like “subjective assertiveness is demonstrably false” or “has provided no evidence to back up his statements” or “has made subjective statements and asserted this is the case” scream to me you failed maths at primary school.

      /facepalm for you son

    • Jotun says:

      05:15pm | 15/10/10

      What I see here is the first instance of a politician with real power doing what no other person in their position has done - making a clear and considered analysis of the choices proffered to him before making a stand and undertaking his decision.

      It clearly doesn’t suit a blood-addicted journalist fraternity used to picking the carcasses of a party with questionable decision making, i.e. every single Government I can remember.

      Give him time to develop a stance, mass media. Get ready for a positive headline to adorn your front page when he does.

      Reply

    • neil says:

      09:50pm | 15/10/10

      When we were introduced to the three amigos they were represented as:

      Katter the nutter

      Oakeshott the thinker

      Windsor the negotiator

      And what did we get?

      Katter the pragmatist

      Oakeshott the manipulated

      Windsor the revengeful

      One man stood for good, two men fell to evil.

      History will judge them.

      Reply

    • Moggy says:

      11:05pm | 15/10/10

      Will you all stop saying awful things about Joolya!! She might resign & the we’ll have that dimwit Wayne Swan running the country!!

      Reply

    • Anthony says:

      02:26am | 16/10/10

      How about a public forum (say 150 plebs) to review this before it goes to a committee of experts? I nominate Cate Blanchett to chair it…..

      Reply

    • MarK says:

      05:27pm | 16/10/10

      Nah not Cate.

      Bring out the big guns - Hugh for this one.

    • Farkurnell says:

      07:30am | 16/10/10

      I agree senexx ,couldn’t have put it better myself,
      Leo, stop tony bashing.

      Reply

    • Edward James says:

      10:31am | 16/10/10

      Perhaps the word to use would be mugwump? This hung Parliament reminds may of the old Chinese curse, may you live in interesting times. Well it is nothing if not interesting. I believe we may be watching the NSW Premier engaging the Prime Minister in a game of brinkmanship over the Murray River water, where the prize for one of them is re election. There is no good outcome for taxpayers what ever happens we will pay.! Edward James

      Reply

    • Tiger of Darwin says:

      03:47pm | 16/10/10

      All i can say is thank goodness TW is chairing the turn out and not some National Party clown, the type who got us into this mess. Tony is right there is unlikely to be any decent outcome here, there will always be some vested interest or crazy idiot ( the type who will not be effected by any outcome to the Murray regardless of what it is ) who will come from nowhere and derail it. 

      Come to think of it its been raining alot of late so there is really no need to do anything, we can put it all off for some unspecified point in the future just like we’ve done with health care, an aging population, crap schools, expensive university, a polluted environment, low superannuation levels etc etc etc.

      Reply

    • Molly Daveson says:

      05:59pm | 16/10/10

      The only real decision Windsor was capable of making was to screw the Coalition for past grievances, and it took him and his mirror image Oakeshott 17 days to announce that. Gillard knew what she was doing in appointing this apology for a politician to chair the enquiry. He has shown that he is in the right camp and as soon as he has reached his 20 years, he will take his money and run.

      Reply

    • Kamal says:

      10:45am | 17/10/10

      “Why are people so unkind?”

    • Holly says:

      10:00pm | 17/10/10

      Gosh this article and some of the comments seem particularly cretinous.  Lets look at this.  The coalition after years of total inaction, sets up an Authority to look at the problems of Murray Darling Basin - this is one of the biggest and most complex ever to face the future of Australia.  However the terms of reference are too narrow (maybe deliberately) and therefore do not address the possible impact any recommendations may have on social factors such as the impact on population and various townships.

      The document released is the very first stage of the consultation period.  Now I live in a regional area but never have I been so disgusted by the behaviour of some of our rural dwellers.  I have heard farmers threaten to ruin the country rather than give up one drop of water.  I have seen threatening signs on the side of the road with pictures of guns.  I have seen people at public meetings behaving like wallys, refusing to listen to what is being said, and falling victim to what appear to be deliberate misrepresentations.  Why didn’t the farmers inform themselves by reading copies of the report instead of burning them. (Tho I did hear they wanted to be like the French.)

      When the government., responding to the gaps in the terms of reference, sets up a committee to address these, it is criticised.  Tony Windsor I thought spoke in a very reasoned and measured manner.  This is one of the biggest issues to be faced by Australia and you all want it to be fixed now.  How very unreasonable of the government to take its time.

      Reply
 
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