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Women’s rights mean the right to choose

Amy Taylor-Kabbaz

by Amy Taylor-Kabbaz

08 Mar 05:35am

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Filed under: Germaine Greer, International Womens Day, Motherhood, Relationships, Society, Women

92 comments

I don’t think Germaine Greer would like my friends.

The woman who personifies the feminist movement of the 70s and makes every wife willing to iron her husband’s shirts feel like a feminist-traitor would certainly frown on my little circle of Mummy-friends.

Especially on International Women’s Day.

After decades of Germaine Greer-like women fighting for our rights to equal pay, equal opportunity, and our right to be a mother and still have a career, I wonder whether my generation of women are letting true-feminists down.

We’re like the Paris Hiltons of the women’s movement.

Growing up with every opportunity at our fingertips, things like glass ceilings and forced retirement once you get married seem as antiquated as a phone without a camera and an internet connection.

We really have no idea how hard it used to be.

We’ve seen our older sisters struggle with fertility issues and lament wasting their baby-making years building their careers, and we’re breeding like rabbits!

Even worse, now we’re not so sure this whole ‘work-life’ balance thing is all it’s made out to be. Balancing a high-powered career with two kids under three? No thanks.

Working twelve hours a day and letting someone else read your children bedtime stories? Not us.

We’re the generation of women who’ve heard both sides of the feminist argument – and we don’t want either of them!

Of course we don’t want to be stuck at home with no personal outlets or chance to pursue the careers we’ve worked so hard to create.
But we certainly do not want to be the ones who only see their kids for twenty minutes a day. Yes, how surprising – we want it all!

Does that mean we’re undoing all our feminist mother’s and grandmother’s hard work? I don’t think so.

Maybe I didn’t pay attention at the right moment in my Women’s Studies course, but I always got the impression that feminism was about the right to equality. Not the compulsion to take it at every single turn.

Just because a woman does not have to stay at home to raise her children anymore, does that mean she shouldn’t?

Is it a crime against feminism for a university-trained, highly successful woman to walk away from her demanding career for five years to stay home with her babies? Not if it’s her choice.

Women’s rights should be about the right to choose – and not be judged by that choice.

And in that sense, I’m not sure the sisterhood has come that far.  I still see us judging each other.

I still see my girlfriends who’ve given up work feel they need to explain their decision, like they’ve abandoned their womenfolk.

And I still see my girlfriends who’ve chosen to go back to work full-time consumed with guilt when explaining their decision.

Surely until we stop judging each other’s choices, we haven’t come that far from our grandmother’s fights for our rights.

We need each other girls – we’ve still got a lot of work to do.

Paid maternity leave and part-time work agreements are certainly improvements, but there’s still the assumption that we women will be the ones doing the staying-at-home.

Surely our focus should be on getting our partner’s workplaces to acknowledge that men can sacrifice their careers for a year or two to stay home with the babies too?

This is the place we should be focusing our attention, so each and every one of us has what I hope our feminist grandmother’s hoped for – real choice.

Choice to stay home if we want, or work if we want. Choice to say to our husband’s – “it’s my turn now”.

Choice to follow your passion in life and have your partner’s, your best friend’s and your boss’s support. 

In a way, we’ve lost a bit of our grandmother’s passion to fight.

A bit like Paris Hilton, we’re so used to having it so good, we’re blind to what we should really be doing with our power.

It’s time for us to get the fight back – but not with each other. It’s time to get real choice in whether we stay-at-home or work, by making it possible for Daddies to have the choice too.

That’s the next frontier for us Gen Xers. I think even Germaine Greer would be proud of that.

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92 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • Jugg says:

      04:44am | 08/03/11

      Can’t wait for International Men’s Day!!!

      Reply

    • Carz says:

      06:33am | 08/03/11

      Why? Do we need to celebrate the emancipation of men, of their winning the right to vote, the right to own property, the right to take out a bank loan without their husband’s or father’s permission? The right to keep their job in the public service after they have been married?

      When you can show me that men have had to fight for all those things then I will stand beside you and celebrate them on an internationally recognised day. Until then stop making all men look like victims with the constant “What about men?” question that is raised everytime a women’s issue gets attention.

    • Jugg says:

      07:16am | 08/03/11

      Well let’s see.

      Before there was voting, men didn’t have the right to vote.  So, at some stage, men must have fought for the right to vote.

      Before there was property ownership, men didn’t have the right to own property.  So at some stage, men must have fought for the right to vote.

      Before there were bank loans, men didn’t have the right to take out a bank loan.  So at some stage, men must have fought for the right to take out a bank loan.

      Before there was a public service, men didn’t have a job in the public service.  So at some stage, men have fought for the right to be employed by the public service.

      So, men fought for these rights to begin with (women just ran off the back of all this original hard work and effort) and it seems they don’t get any recognition.  Women wouldn’t have the rights that they do, except for the actions of men.

      Why aren’t we celebrating this?

      The articles promoting male achievement and male issues compared to women would have to be at least 50:1.

      Why is it always about women?

    • Jugg says:

      07:23am | 08/03/11

      * So at some stage, men must have fought for the right to own property

    • AliceC says:

      07:48am | 08/03/11

      @Jugg

      Men didn’t fight for these things, they created them, and excluded women.

      International Women’s Day is about celebrating what women have achieved over the past 100 years. We wouldn’t be voting if we didn’t fight for it, nor could we own property. Unless it is challenged, the staus quo will remain…

    • Jugg says:

      08:03am | 08/03/11

      AliceC,

      Men fought for these things to be created.

      Perhaps women back then didn’t care to be involved?  Thought about that at all?

    • Valerie says:

      08:03am | 08/03/11

      International Men’s Day is every other day of the year. Men dominate economically, socially, politically, in the home, in politics, the arts, the media, sport. Celebrate your privilege gentlemen. Just not today.

    • Luke says:

      08:14am | 08/03/11

      @Carz - I suggest you read The New Manhood by Steve Biddulph (Pyschologist).  It identifies exactly why we need to celebrate manhood, so we can develop better men.  And what happens if we have better men? Women are treated better, less domestic violence etc
      I am not suggesting that we don’t celebrate women, in fact its a good thing, but by celebrating men who are good and can act as mentors for other men can only be a good thing for all of society.

    • Skepdad says:

      08:35am | 08/03/11

      Actually the biggest factor in the repression of women throughout history hasn’t been men per se, but religion.  The inferiority of women is written into every “holy” book.

    • Ben says:

      09:10am | 08/03/11

      @Alice, and @Carz
      You’re equating all men with the very small elite that runs the world.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffrage#Wealth.2C_tax_class.2C_social_class
      Common men, meaning men who weren’t rich, weren’t granted the vote until the 1800s. This right was fought for, by men. Both men and women have been kept as slaves throughout history. Rather than complain about “men” in general, complain about the rich who would prefer to keep their slice of the pie.

    • Red says:

      09:46am | 08/03/11

      Carz & AliceC - men who were not gentry did have to fight for rights. Not all the battles were the same as those that females have had, but they continually fought for improved working conditions, the right to vote (it was only 4 years before women were giving voting rights in Oz), the right to own property without having to fight in their countries army and the right to representation of the people by the people. In your desire to show how much females have acheived, don’t blind yourself to the struggles others have had to go through which you now benefit from.

      Amy, I think my thoughts of feminism aligns to yours. It is equality and acceptance of choice for all.

    • Bilby says:

      11:41am | 08/03/11

      International Men’s Day - September 19th. Yaargh!

    • neil says:

      11:48am | 08/03/11

      Carz, Jugg is right men did fight and die for these things, it’s called democracy and before it was earned through centries of bloody wars most men and women had no rights at all.

    • Rob says:

      11:57am | 08/03/11

      Jugg… your comments give the rest of us blokes a bad name. So stop, already. Every day is International Mens’ Day…

    • Erick says:

      03:29pm | 08/03/11

      Robb, would you care to provide a reasoned response to Jugg’s points, rather than just insulting him? I’d like to think you’re better than that.

    • Jugg says:

      03:43pm | 08/03/11

      Rob,

      Thanks for your intellectual contribution.

    • Red says:

      03:56pm | 08/03/11

      Rob - “your comments give the rest of us blokes a bad name”
      I don’t feel that Juggs comments represent my opinion. It is wrong to expect to censor what he has to say by telling him to be quite just because you don’t agree.


      “Every day is International Mens’ Day”
      Did you swallow the feminist handbook of phrases?

      There is an actual International Mens Day celebrated on on November 12th (in Oz) or the 19th in many other countries. It came from wanting to celebrate males who were not being included in Fathers Day celebrations in September.

    • papachango says:

      03:58pm | 08/03/11

      How about an International Day of The Individual? We can celebrate the hard-won individual freedoms that have been fought for since the Enlightenment, as well as the defeat of totalitarian collectivist ideologies like fascism and communism.

      As Ayn Rand said, when it comes to minority rights, the individual is the smallest possible minority.

    • Arthur Bastard says:

      11:24pm | 08/03/11

      Carz, take a look at the stats for suicide in this country. Then check them out for drug and alcohol abuse, and for mental illness generally. Then think about it a bit.

      It’s not about what happened in the past, it’s about whats happening now and will happen into the future. And right now, there are a lot of men facing a lot of very real problems.

      As long as feminists continue to insist that men’s problems are inconsequential, they will continue to contribute to these problems.

    • Squeeze the Middle says:

      12:53pm | 09/03/11

      Carz and AliceC.  It really frightens me that you think that the common man didn’t have to fight for those things.  I think the rest of the responses to your comments have said enough on that point.

      It’s not lost on some of us men that some outcomes of feminism stomp all over individual rights. Quite the dilemma wouldn’t you say? (E.g. the Family Court’s use of risk management like the statistical profiling of men in contrast to judging each case on it’s merits.  So much for the right to a fair trial for the individual. )

      Seems to me that all some women want is an equal share of the inequality.

    • AliceC says:

      09:29am | 10/03/11

      @Jugg

      How can you fight for something to be created? Who are you fighting against if you’re creating something yourself?

      @Squeeze

      Ok, so the vote was granted to the common man after they fought for it. My question is why did they only fight for common man to get the vote, not everyone? Even after all men had received the right to vote, women then still had to fight for the same thing.

    • Carz says:

      06:29am | 08/03/11

      Amy it is precisely the ability to choose that feminists fought for. I think we, as women, have come to see that our mothers and grandmothers, those who were a part of the second wave of feminism, had great ideas but the implementing of them may have been a little flawed. Back then it was seen as a choice between the workplace or the home, with guilt from both sides for not meeting an ideal. Now we know that we can have it all but are smart enough to realise that it doesn’t necessarily mean “all at once.”

      Reply

    • Ray says:

      07:21am | 08/03/11

      Carz, firstly you are making presumptions to use the term ‘smart enough’.

      Can I also take the opportunity to clarify your response to Jugg.

      Most of the issues you raise were around merely as a consequence of the social form. For example the resigning upon marriage in the public service was in the age of one income families and the egalitarian approach was to spread one income to more families rather than more families with two incomes and some with no income.

      With the vote Federation was in 1903 and women voted in 1907 - the 3rd election (so big deal).

      The point is Carz that there was no great conspiracy against women as the portrayal of convenience embraces. Women have always been treated with care and elevation. 

      Men have always had the lack of ‘choices’ as the author identifies as the root cause for women’s endless victim claims.

      Well men had the choice to get their heads blown off in two major wars and other minor skirmishes. They have the choice of earning the family income, working 2-3 jobs while the wife was home with the kids, of being deprived adequate time with their children, and dying earlier (and leaving assets to the wife) because of the work, particularly in jobs subsequently proven to be detrimental to health.

      So now we have legislation and courts to ensure those gratuities are delivered to women regardless of their input.

      Your last sentence reflects the ‘we know we can have it all’. Well one of the lasting principles that my parents imparted upon me was ‘you cannot have everything’. ‘can’t have it all’.

      I think my parents were wise. Can’t say the same for the feminist mantra.

      Feminism is THE greatest hoax of the millenium, bought hook line and sinker by a gullible society and an inbuilt affinity for women.

      Sda really, that women have this inbuilt conspiracy theory to cover up their own insecurities.

      Men don’t need a celebration or a greoup representation. They’re confident in their own self and know you get nothing for nothing. Passed on from grandfather to father to son.

      Men are just sick of women bleating and expecting love in return. A nice principal to follow is treat others as you would like to be treated. In other words don’t bad mouth and trash talk men if you expect love in return

    • Sky says:

      06:47am | 08/03/11

      You Say we have choice? I say there is no choice, if you want to Eat, with a roof over your head, with clothes on your back….....  You have to work. (male or female) I asked the question? What family can live on one wage, where is that choice?

      Reply

    • Mike says:

      08:29am | 08/03/11

      My wife stayed at home with our three girls till they were finished school. We lived on my single, somewhat better than average salary, throughout that time and adjusted our lifestyle to match. This meant a fairly modest house and not necessarily keeping up with all the latest trends, gadgets etc. In my view, we lived very comfortably, our children lacked nothing important and they had the significant advantage of a parent being at home and available.

      My brother-in-law has four kids and for much of their life, they lived on a single below-average salary. His wife stayed home, home-schooled the kids and they managed to own a (modest) home and meet all their family’s needs.

      Of course it can be done. You just have to tailor your lifestyle to meet your means.

    • Skepdad says:

      08:47am | 08/03/11

      Sky, you forgot “with a 50 inch plasma and a new 4wd on credit”.  People live very comfortably on one income when they live within their means.

    • james milton says:

      09:18am | 08/03/11

      It’s time to find a new technology to use when describing people who buy things they can’t afford. Plasma TV’s are too cheap these days!

    • SkepDad says:

      09:31am | 08/03/11

      Ah, there you see James, I still have a CRT.  Maybe when both our kids are at school and my wife is in paid work again, we’ll pop down to JB HiFi and catch up on the latest tech smile

    • NQ says:

      12:14pm | 08/03/11

      My family lives on one wage just fine.

    • Enid says:

      12:19pm | 08/03/11

      When a family can no longer live on one wage, that takes away the rights of both parents to be parents. This is the real adversary. The free market, home interest rates being used to control the economy.  It’s political, not gender based.

    • Rebecca says:

      07:02am | 08/03/11

      My husband stayed at home with our first child and I went and worked full time to build my career. 8 years later we are doing the reverse I am working part time and staying home with our second child. Looking back I wish I had worked full time, but on the other hand I loved my job for all those years.
      While all of this highlights that these decisions are never easy, I often feel I am betraying feminism in loving what I am doing now. But I no longer work with any women who didn’t work part time at sometime after having their children and in the female dominated workplace of teaching that is significant and very different from what was going on almost a decade ago.

      Reply

    • Jugg says:

      07:27am | 08/03/11

      What’s behind the misguided allegiance to ‘feminism’?  Shouldn’t you be able to live you life doing what you want to do without feeling guilt?

      Why pay homage to a movement which doesn’t allow you freedom?

    • marley says:

      06:54pm | 08/03/11

      @Jugg - when you have kids and a mortgage, freedom is out the window.  It becomes a question of options and choices. and trying to work out the best arrangement for everyone.  No one gets exactly what they want, but if works for the family, that’s all that really matters.  The idea of complete freedom is really nothing but selfish hedonism.  Doesn’t matter whether you’re a man or a woman, you’re going to find your life constricted by the choices you make and the responsibilities you assume.  And frankly, that’s fine with me.  Who wants to be Hugh Hefner, or especially one of his bunnies.

    • Jugg says:

      07:21am | 08/03/11

      Why was my comment on women being ‘wired’ to complain about each other denied publication?

      Reply

    • Jolanda says:

      08:06am | 08/03/11

      The Punch used to publish all but now it seems that they control and moderate so much.  They really should be careful who they have writing for them as the whole idea of the punch was to have people’s opinion’s out there for debate not to control threads, protect who they want to protect and cut people off. 

      I don’t think that women are ‘wired to complain’ I think that people do not realize that when you are talking to a friend and telling them how you feel about a situation you are just having a conversation and it isn’t meant for them to judge you and see it as whinging.  Maybe the problem is that in today’s world it is getting more and more difficult to find real friends.

    • KH says:

      09:15am | 08/03/11

      Probably because people aren’t machines, and everyone is different. There are plenty of male whingers too.  Just look at the comments on some of the other posts today.

    • Garth says:

      07:28am | 08/03/11

      What about men?! Oh yeah right, Amy mentioned that. I really think that logically this/the next generation of parents actually have greater freedom to work from home etc allowing a more balanced parenting. It allows greater opportunities for men to relieve any possible burden of women may have been feeling with a need to stay home, or more accurately, to stay home alone.
      I believe that more women are like Amy here, and are wanting it all. That means a two parents, a nice house, mod cons etc. And yes, maybe they want this with less passion than previous generations, but part of that is down to wanting it all in a balance, and not having to sacrifice something else that they want equally. Far from the feminism of yesteryear that was pushing for the sacrificing of part of a woman’s choice to have children, and from the later part where they had to work and care for the children.
      It now needs to become more socially and politically acceptable for a man to stay home with the children. This incorporated with improved technological resources at the grasp of all companies, will enable children to once again grow up with parents being parents.
      This is a great opportunity for the world, and specifically Australia, to regain that culture that was community, something I think we are all missing but we are lacking a passion to push for. Let women continue to chose but let the environment help them by allowing men and women equal choice in flexibility. Great article Amy.

      Reply

    • scott says:

      09:01am | 08/03/11

      “It now needs to become more socially and politically acceptable for a man to stay home with the children. This incorporated with improved technological resources at the grasp of all companies, will enable children to once again grow up with parents being parents.” Really?
      Mention your second sentence to a labourer, tradesperson or any manual labour worker. “Hang on little johnny, daddy is just remote accessing his shovel to finish digging a hole on the other side of the city”

      It hardly works for all companies and situations, only those fortunate enough to have these resources, of which I’m one, but I dug holes whilst studying to get the luxury. Never forget that some parents don’t have a choice.

    • Garth says:

      03:50pm | 08/03/11

      Touche Scott. There are indeed many positions that men can’t work from home. Like there are positions that women can’t leave to have a baby yet still do. You are completely correct. What I meant to say, but obviously didn’t do it properly, was that there is a greater chance to have to incomes now for families so that there isn’t the monetary sacrifice made to have one or either “stay at home” with the children. I agree there are jobs like a deep sea diver which can’t be done remotely. I just think that employers and the community should be working together to keep the environment of a community existing instead of trying to have both as completely separate issues. It is so much so that companies, including physical labouring companies, have “community contact” groups and schemes. If they had their workers actively in that community even if on a part time basis it would work better for mums, dads, bubs and community hubs. smile

    • Rebecca says:

      08:07am | 08/03/11

      Jugg it’s other women who make you feel guilty and unfortunately at one stage I think I felt the same wat and for me even my father worried I wouldn’t have a career after our first child. A difficult situation to find yourself in.

      Reply

    • Jugg says:

      09:44am | 08/03/11

      Rebecca,

      That’s my point.  Feminism seems to demand the emanicaption of women, their rights and place in the world.  Even any woman dares to make her own decisions, she is criticised by the very collective supposed to be allowing her those choices.  Women rejoicing in this movement, makes no sense at all.

    • Bilby says:

      08:36am | 08/03/11

      Amy - You’ve hit the nail on the head with end of the penultimate paragraph. Until men have the choice to live a cushy life of part time work leaving plenty of time for the kids and family, the discussion will be on hold. Choice, if not for all, breads resentment and hostility.

      Reply

    • SkepDad says:

      08:42am | 08/03/11

      Hear hear.  Now please explain how gender quotas in business are in any way related to equality.  I don’t see how enshrining discrimination against men in law to force arbitrary gender ratios will further the cause of gender equality, unless the radical feminists and sociologists really want women to be equal only in the Orwellian sense. 

      Equality relates to opportunity and freedom from repression, but some over-eager persons of influence are myopically taking it to mean forcing 50/50 participation.

      Reply

    • supportivehusband says:

      08:54am | 08/03/11

      Interesting article. I particularly liked the bit: “choice to say to our husbands ‘It’s my turn now’”.
      Where’s HIS choice.
      The only choice a man gets once he become a father is: Work harder, you’ve got a family to support!
      The more women get the more they want.
      There was a point to International Women’s Day decades ago when there really were some diabolical iniquities but now the only laws that discriminate do so in favour of women!
      With rights come responsibilities and one of the responsibilities in this situation is to accept that not everyone is going to love and support every decision you make. Build a bridge, get over it and stop expecting everyone to give you unqualified support as a natural consequence of every decision you make.
      Men don’t and women would criticise them for it if they did.

      Reply

    • Angela says:

      10:08am | 08/03/11

      @supportivehusband, while your comment re men is valid, I must point out that International Women’s Day is still important. Certainly in our society it seems an anachronism, but that isn’t the case everywhere.  If IWD could really focus on the great injustices against women that prevail in many countries of the world and stop bickering over minor inconsequentialities in places like Australia we could really make a difference for women everywhere.

    • Markus says:

      10:46am | 08/03/11

      @Angela, I would love to see any feminist group have the cojones (figuratively speaking) to stand by their convictions, and take on Islam and it’s REAL inequalities between men and women.

      Pretty sure they know full well it’s just so much easier to sit around getting free government money to complain that they aren’t getting as much money as men who work harder and longer in higher demand jobs.

    • Quicksilver says:

      05:48pm | 08/03/11

      My husband became a father almost 12 years ago, and has chosen to stay home with our sons ever since.  I work hard to support my family.  I can’t see why there should be any difference as to which person stays home - we did it this way because my earning potential was much higher.  Why do men feel they don’t have a choice?

    • Catherine says:

      09:12am | 08/03/11

      Thanks for the article Amy and more than anything, for highlighting on International Women’s Day, that women desperately need to stop judging each other. I truly believe they’re often their own worst enemies. At work, at home, at the school gate, the level of judgement I find amongst and between women is oppressive, corrosive and just plain tiresome. Stop the comparing, the assessment and the fear that what you’re thinking, doing, wearing, or eating is wrong or isn’t quite up to scratch. Stop comparing your mothering skills. Stop the neurosis about your children and the helicopter parenting. Give yourself (and your children) a break! Stop judging and just be. Breathe!!!!

      Reply

    • Jugg says:

      09:47am | 08/03/11

      Precisely Catherine,

      I raised the same point, it never got published and when I ask why, people such as KH feel free to criticise you because you are male, yet she makes no comment on your contribution.  Perhaps it’s because you are female?

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      10:24am | 08/03/11

      Excellent comment Catherine. We truly are our own worst enemies sometimes.

    • Even Keel says:

      09:12am | 08/03/11

      Why does the argument always comeback to he said/she said?  It should focus on equality.  I have a close male friend that decided to stay at home to raise his two children - the children are amazing achievers, yet the other parents can’t see past the ‘father shouldn’t stay at home’ syndrome.  Many of the males being punished for the past sins of their forefathers have different ideals, different perspectives and very different goals for thier future lives.  It would be nice if the feminists didn’t merely step over the corpses and try to place all males in the same category.  Afterall, you shouldn’t win rights by removing others.  Rant finished smile - great article Amy.  Insightful, honest and balanced.

      Reply

    • stephen says:

      09:18am | 08/03/11

      Feminism became important 100 years ago when it was neccessary to define itself as an opposition to male heirarchies. It worked, but then smart girls theorists at Universities hijacked themselves and forged un-blinking partnerships with a thing called ‘Post-Modernism’ : a word you will only find on book-covers.
      PM stinks, and no-one knows what it is, hence, the quandary with Feminism.
      Both of ‘em are in a hole, and the girls - and good luck to you too - are gonna have to climb back out, just like they did when gas-lights were de-riguer.

      Reply

    • Melly S says:

      09:20am | 08/03/11

      Guess what?
      I have a career and I am thinking of giving it up to raise children.
      It seems to me that every couple who keeps their careers going while raising kids struggles as they are basically doing 3 jobs between two people. Luckily for us we will be financially stable on one income. I only wish some of my girl friends had this option, but buying a house is so expensive that they now have to return to work.

      Reply

    • Ree says:

      09:41am | 08/03/11

      I agree you should be able to leave your job for a period to raise your children and that it is the responsible thing for either parent to do for a period of time.

      However, do not then complain about your lack of super or the fact that you are not on the same wage as the girl that used to sit next to you when you left while she continued to work.

      Time out of the workforce will cause economic disadvantage and you and your partner will just have to suck it up and deal with the consequences of your decisions.

      And don’t even get me started on the NSW Fairness for Families nonsense that is being touted as an election promise. I work hard and make my own lifestyle choices that suit my partner and I and I am fed up with paying for tax breaks for people with kids.

      Reply

    • Squeeze the Middle says:

      09:52am | 08/03/11

      “Choice to stay home if we want, or work if we want. Choice to say to our husband’s – “it’s my turn now”.”

      Are you talking about the right to have your way?  Or the right to be heard?

      Partners don’t have the right to have their way.  But they do have the right to be heard. (Like Momcilovic in the High Court fighting for her right to a fair trial.  Of which the Punch feminists are wholly silent.)

      I’d love to be a stay at home Dad.  But with the force of the Family Court against men?  Sorry, gotta look after myself. My Ex wife dumped me at the same time as her pay exceeded mine for the first time. No kids and I still got less than 50%.

      Fellas - you’ve gotta look after yourselves first.  Women - if you don’t like that then you have to start fighting for individual rights and not women’s rights. First thing first is the Family Court has to stop using statistics to rule against men.  That’s guilt by association, guilt by birth. The Court cannot rule against a man because of the actions of its gender. Each case on its merits.

      Push and shove, push and shove.  You’ve got to lose some battles to win the war.

      Reply

    • Slick says:

      01:31pm | 08/03/11

      Family court sucks. I know too many men who have been screwed by it, and they have no rights to their child except as a wallet! It is disgusting and makes me feel sick if I knew those women.
      Children need both parents, unless one is abusive. Doesnt matter which one, the other should be looking after them.

      Males also need the option to 12 months paternity leave if their spouse decides to go back to work. I think that if I had a job that paid the same or higher than my husband, I would have been happy to stay at work whilst he spent the time at home on materinity leave.
      Pity that still seems to be for females only, although at least they now get 2 weeks parental leave.

    • Ray says:

      10:15am | 08/03/11

      FFS why do men owe women so much. They’ve always given women everything.

      Look I’ll give everyone a little tip.

      The reason men always come out on top is that from a young age they inbibe in their sons that you are responsible for your own self. Destiny, character, and achievement. If you fail to come up to the mark it’s your own responsibility.

      Try the same with their girls but they become derailed through ideological driven education espousing suppression of women, discrimination and creation of a subsequent debilitising mind set. This of course is aided and abetted by things such as International Women’s Day, protagonists like Sue Broderick and her tainted organisation, and the attendent gender biased legislation under which her’s and other organisations are conceived and operate.

      I suppose it is to be expected, but today’s media is awash with gender biased exclusivity on broader matters. Matters such as employment, remuneration, domestic violence. Such matters are across both genders but women would have you believe that they are the only ones subject to these difficulties.

      To top it off , C. Kenneally our erstwhile female Premier by gender default, proposesd GPS’s for domestic violence offenders. What, for men only, for those subject to an AVO (issued in your breakfast cereal). Well what else do you want? A dog collar constrain on all men. Who’s gonna issue them. The Family Court, Sue Broderick, the Child Support Agency, the Discrimination Commission, The Ministry for Women, the Women’s Electoral Lobby, the Sex Discrimination Commissioner.

      Or are we going to invent another female specific organisation for a career path for women to stand in judgement over men without due cause. I nominate Eva Cox for what ever Commissioner that will be, just to ensure a balanced outcome.

      I for one can tell you that some women will conceive domestic violence orders or AVO’s as a path to divorce aided and abetted by Domestic Violence Organisations representatives. This for charges that a man is normally guilty of until proven innocent.

      If that don’t work women can just access child porn on the family computer and suggest that the husband spends late nights on the computer for what she isn’t sure. Lay down mesere. And it goes with a GPS system courtesy of Premier Kenneally.

      Reply

    • Max says:

      10:27am | 08/03/11

      The greatest impediment to the women’s movement is the expectation that being female affords the right to different treatment.

      Reply

    • supportivehusband says:

      11:57am | 08/03/11

      Here’s an unpleasant little taste of the real world - If you are equal you are not special, if you are special you are not equal.
      You can’t keep having it both ways. Not even women can.

    • Max Redlands says:

      10:28am | 08/03/11

      like supportivehusband and sqeezed in the middle the phrase “choice to say to our husbands ‘It’s my turn now’” struck me as a bit rich….

      “Choice to follow your passion in life and have your partner’s, your best friend’s and your boss’s support” has a weird ring to it as well…taken to an extreme it would read “i choose to accept your total subservience”

      Reply

    • laura says:

      11:15am | 08/03/11

      Here’s a question. Where the hell is the mention of the choice whether or NOT ot have kids. It is possible to not want to leave work to have babies. But that’s not an acceptable choice in this day and age of child worship. Not all women want to rely on a man while she makes the choice that he has to work his butt off to pay for them.

      Reply

    • OchreBunyip says:

      05:21pm | 08/03/11

      There are also some men who have decided not to get married. The reasons differ from person to person but marriage, 2.3 kids and a mortgage is not everyone’s idea of a fulfilling life.

    • Dale says:

      11:38am | 08/03/11

      Whoa. There is so much negativity in these comments on all the IWD articles. Everyone needs to chill and not personalise everything. Just because you had a bad experience with a man/woman - doesn’t mean they are all like that!

      There are some countries where women’s rights are seen as less important than men. These are often aligned with tradition/culture/religion arguments. (No I’m not referencing this - sorry trolls).

      If you ever need to ponder whether something seems wrong - substitute ethnicity for gender. We abhor situations where discrimination against certain ethnicities is accepted, thus we should do the same for gender.

      All people, regardless of ethnicity, gender, age should be treated equally. IWD doesn’t mean a day when we all gang up on men - it merely is a day (like Cancer Awareness, or Chidren’s Day) where we focus on that one issue. Where in the world can we look to seek equality and better living conditions for women? The next important day might be Daffodil Day, or Canteen. Instead of focusing all your rage on blog sites against each other and the author - consider instead if you think there truly does need to be issues addressed in the world (not just your backyard or cubicle).

      Reply

    • Enid says:

      12:53pm | 08/03/11

      How about Magna Carta Day, recalling 15 June 1215?  That was the free world’s first step towards universal suffrage (voting). Where people started to have a say in how they were ruled. But this was achieved in a diplomatic/political/tactical way, not in battle, nor in revolution of the masses, as happened later in France! The Magna Carta was written by wise literate Churchmen and illiterate Crusaders. Australia’s Constitution and other important documents paraphrase much of its freedoms, but happily in 190, at the Commonwealth,  Australian women and landless men continued to have the right to vote. It all takes time.

    • Squeeze the Middle says:

      12:04pm | 09/03/11

      Dale. Of course there are issues that need to be addressed. Much rage is about how they are being addressed. 

      Read the wikipedia page on History of Feminism. Particularly the paraphrasing of Nancy Cott. Many feminsim issues now are about individualism and diveristy.  So personalising would hence be entirely appropriate.

    • It's our right to choose regardless says:

      11:39am | 08/03/11

      And a woman should have the right to choose to murder their unborn child as well. It’s all about choice, women have the right to choose. We can choose anything we want regardless of how it affects anyone else. That’s our right. We’ve been repressed for too long. Our lot has been afflicted for centuries. Now it’s our turn to do the afflicting. We will choose no matter what the consequences, just to prove that we can choose. Our choices can be even be made when we’re menstruating an unable to make wise decisions.

      Reply

    • AliceC says:

      02:57pm | 08/03/11

      You cannot be serious, women cannot make wise decisions while ‘menstruating’???? So for one week a month, women are incapable of making logical decisions? Give me a break!

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      03:35pm | 08/03/11

      Exactly, Alice. 
       
      We all know it is only a few days and it is immediately prior.

    • Jackie says:

      03:56pm | 08/03/11

      Sorry, do I not get this, are you trying to be funny???  Well, your not!

    • Bruno says:

      11:48am | 08/03/11

      so basically men are right, you as a species (females) have absolutely no idea what you want

      Reply

    • marley says:

      12:18pm | 08/03/11

      Nah, first because women aren’t a species, and second because different women want different things. Kind of like men, really.  Some guys want to work 80 hours a week, bring work home, spend their weekends on the phone or the iPad, and shoot up through the ranks of the company. Other men want to work 40 hours a week, have a beer afterwards with their pals, and watch footy on the weekend.  Others want to hit the clubs, chat up bright young things, and maybe smoke a bit of dope.  Others want to play cricket with their kids, invite the neighbours over for a BBQ, and paint the garage.  Different folks, different strokes.

    • Ray says:

      12:41pm | 08/03/11

      Marley, firstly women ARE a protected SPECIES, and secondly men don’t seek legislation to do it.

      Yur a smart ass. Seen any AFL player managers lately if you get my drift.

    • Ray says:

      12:52pm | 08/03/11

      Oh and Marley keep your insults to yourself. You have no right to say women are ‘kinda like men really’. That is really stooping to the low of the low. To compare women to men is just absurd because men do it all without the legislations and a raft of institutions supporting women. I’m cut.

      If you don’t need that leg up then torpedo them. (I know the natural inclination would be torpedo the men. But I mean torpedo the sexist legislation and institutions) . Phew that was close because they’re vengeful little suckers.

    • Razor says:

      12:05pm | 08/03/11

      If a women wants to have children and keep working and she is in a relationship then she needs to negotiaite that with her partner.  Together they need to work out how they are are going to generate enough income and provide adequate childcare and meet all their other goals.

      The biggest problem I see in feminism is that females have been very poor at selling the benefits that a male can gain from helping women get what they want.

      Reply

    • Enid says:

      12:07pm | 08/03/11

      In the real world women have always needed to be able to hold up our side of society. It means being competent in a wide range of things. Read the last chapter of Proverbs in the OT. Many skills listed there are deemed career choices now, but these were a standard that every woman learnt. Men seem to have taken over the world only because they lost the plot of what they should be doing. So massive confusion exists now. But as my ancestor used to say…the only helping hand you can rely on is on the end of your arm! The access to opportunity has changed society paradigm over 150 years and especially the last three generations, because of world wars.  Now I see women wanting to be ‘girls’ and boys wanting to be ‘men’?
      Yet the happiest people I know are women and men who are dealing with life problems together, or with extended family or ‘village’ support because joy happens after the tough bits of life.

      Reply

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      12:38pm | 08/03/11

      I gave mine the day off. She’ll just have to work harder over the next few days, keeping me happy.

      Reply

    • M B Andrews says:

      12:48pm | 08/03/11

      Without wanting to cause controversy, isn’t it also true, Amy, that if women should feel okay about choosing to work or choosing to be at home, that they should be comfortable with that at the macro level?

      Because that’s where the rub is. At the moment (I think) only 8% of company directors are women.

      Now why is that? If it’s because they’re women and it’s men excluding them for no other reason, then that’s appalling and we need laws to stop it.

      But what if it’s because there are just a lot fewer women who’ve put 25 consecutive years into developing their business skills? Because that’s what it generally takes to have the decision-making ability that corporate governance demands.

      In that case, women should feel okay about the consequences of their decision. They don’t have to work 25 consecutive years in corporate life if they don’t want to. They can choose another (nobler?) path and create some people and shape them to be great citizens and neighbours.

      But then, they probably should be okay with the fact that there aren’t so many women on boards.

      Reply

    • papachango says:

      03:48pm | 08/03/11

      Alternatively it could be that most women just aren’t prepared to put up with all the crap and do all the brown-nosing that you need to do in order to rise to the top in the corporate world.

      They have a different set of priorities which revolve around family life, so it follows that there may well be less than 50% of them on boards, and making laws to force that is both ridiculous and patronising to women. It will also foster resentment and impac the credibilty of any female appointee - they will be dismissed as the ‘token AA board member’

      In any case you do get some women who put their careers before family, either by not having children or having a partner willing to take on the primary carer role. In those cases I’ve never seen them paid less than men or not get promoted as readily with equal experience and competence.

    • Content says:

      01:41pm | 08/03/11

      Germaine Greer wasn’t anti women being house wives, she was anti women not having a choice in the matter.  Some women have since taken this arguement too far and now many women are stuck with TWO jobs: domestic and professional.

      Who cares what society may think of you…man or woman.  If you’re happy and not hurting anyone in the procress, then I’m happy for you. smile

      Reply

    • papachango says:

      03:50pm | 08/03/11

      Greer once said that any woman who experiences a maternal desire to have a baby must be suffering from a mental illness to want such an obvious decrease in the quality of her lifestyle.

      I think you’ll find she’s as anti-choice as the steretypical ‘barefoot pregnant and in the kitchen’ male chauvinist.

      But I agree with you last sentence

    • Squeeze the Middle says:

      01:08pm | 09/03/11

      papachango.  Isn’t Greer just repeating: I may not agree with what you’re saying but I’ll fight to the death for your right to say it?

      Firstly: define mental illness? Secondly: even just the title of her book “The Female Eunuch” says it all. I.e. there are fulfiling alternatives to being a mother.

    • papachango says:

      01:44pm | 08/03/11

      Forget Germaine Greer, she might have made some sense once, but as soon as she started defending female genital mutilation as a valid cultural practice which we in the racist imperialist West have no right to criticize, she forfeited the right to call herself a feminist as far as I’m concerned.

      It shouldn’t be about women’s rights, rather it’s about maximising individual rights, regardless of gender,

      Reply

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      03:37pm | 08/03/11

      I am waiting for the day that the feminazis come up against the Cultural PC crowd.

    • papachango says:

      04:29pm | 08/03/11

      Tony -  I dislike the term ‘feminazi’ but I get they type you’re referring to. However, I would have though they’d be in complete agreement with the ‘Cultural PC crowd’ over just about everything.

      Refusing to criticize non-western cultures who treat women unfairly is not unique to Greer -  it’s a fairly common trait of Western feminism, and reflects their alliance to the modern Left, and embracing of victim/envy politics (there’s nothing intrinsically left wing about wanting equal rights for women). There are a few exceptions, like Pamela Bone, whom the feminist movement pretty much disowned.

      It’s gotten to the point where Greer and several other so-called ‘feminists’ actually go the extra step of actually praising misogynistic nonwestern cultures, like when she said the burqa is a symbol of womens freedom to not have their bodies stared at.

    • BD says:

      03:12pm | 08/03/11

      Ray is just a loser who hasnt achieved much in his life except write mean and bitter comments on here.  He blames other people for his shortcomings instead of looking at ways to improve himself.  He likes to play “victim” and wants to be seen as special.

      Reply

    • Not Ray says:

      04:26pm | 08/03/11

      meanwhile you take a completely anonymous person’s comments to heart enough to write this little ditribe. Who’s the loser?

    • Ray says:

      04:56pm | 08/03/11

      Brilliant input BD.

      Don’t have shortcomings and can play the intellectually challenged off a break.  Bad news for you.

      I’m no victim. Just pissed off with half the nation who have turned playing the victim into an art form mission statement.

    • BD says:

      08:29pm | 08/03/11

      Not Ray are you sure your not Ray? seems suspicious anyway merely pointing out the irony of his whinging victim like comments.  Now Ray is accusing half the population of being victims( i presume he means women) how sad..  I guess he just doesnt like women.  Perhaps his mother was mean to him.

    • Ray says:

      07:25am | 09/03/11

      No BD just don’t like whinging a**holes who think the whole world revolves around them. Take that personally if you like

    • Jackie says:

      03:53pm | 08/03/11

      Great article Amy, although some of these comments are going a little crazy…
      I said “not possible” to paid work after my 3rd child was born, then with my 4th it wasnt a question. i’m fine with it & like you consider feminisim as my right to choose,  I have had to put up with working Mothers look down their noses at me as I stroll into the schoolyard in my gym clothes but please, its not as if I would never be able to make enough to pay the nanny.
      Although I applaud your intent I cannot imagine my husband choosing home life over work, sometimes its like he cant get out the door fast enough…mabye its just me.

      Reply

    • Garry says:

      08:25pm | 08/03/11

      World “fun” day - 30th March ... the day you can do something just for fun like in the good old days before the fun police made laws prohibiting everything.

      Reply

    • Ahem says:

      07:54am | 09/03/11

      Obviously you weren’t paying attention in Women’s Studies class.

      Greer isn’t against women who stay at home with the kids. Just the people who think that’s all women should choose.

      Reply
 
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