Why we should give our police a proper payrise

David says:

10:05am | 10/07/09

Indeed a lovely article to let us walk a mile in anothers’ shoes on what it really must be like to be a police officer in NSW. It no doubt is hard for the police on the beat , as it is hard for nurses and teachers of this State.. Unfortunately the Police of NSW seem to be the jam in a sandwich for the citizens of a state that feel oppressed by the police force that have to enforce their own aggressive form of ‘colour by numbers’ draconian policing.

Why is it that more often than not the attitude towards police is so negative in NSW as opposed to France or the UK where the police hold a very appreciated role in society.. is it because of the aggressive nature of the officers? or the aggressive attitude towards revenue raising so the pollies can live on their golden handshake pension entitlements?

Personally I feel that often the police are out to ‘fill their numbers’ enforcing draconian road rules.. not that i do not discredit your experience in Lebanon but the people there at least feel a bit of freedom..  I do a lot of country driving feel that the road rules West of the Great Divide have been written by someone who has never driven long distance in this State. When will we be able to do more than 110 km/h on a dual carriageway road like Sydney to Canberra or Sydney to Newcastle? Our cars are safer and more efficient than ever and we all stare down at our speedos careful not to go over 112km/h..  we are dying on the roads of fatigue from staring at our speedos! This is understandably not the police officers fault but they are seen at the frontline of this revenue raising.

Currently police have a huge presence on Oxford st and other areas as an arm of the State Government trying to prove that their policy of Lockouts is working..  Where were the police before the lockout? This is all driven by a Police Commissioner who is an active member of Hillsong and a teet totaler and hence the police doing 10 walk-throughs of every venue in the CBD every week.. Why do police have to enforce a mandate that makes citizens feel like criminals enforcing the moral values of someone so out of touch with the rest of society?

Last Thursday i was in a bar in Bondi.. a nice bar, like one of the laneway bars that Sydney aspires artwork walls and cocktails and in walk 12 officers and a sniffer dog at 10.30 on a Thursday night?? There were 12 people in the venue!!  why are those police wasting my money and resources in a place where there is no violence or crime?

Why does Australia have 7 police forces as opposed to one? Surely it would be more efficient to amalgamate all the State and territories?

Ask any International visitor what they think of police in NSW and they are generally shocked that they are so aggressive and heavy handed..

I think i will leave it up to others to write about their racist experiences with police.. but i imagine it to be very tough to be Lebanese and/or on P-Plates at the moment..or being an Indian student..

Did anyone see the 60 minutes fluff piece on the police special forces a few weeks ago? Look at the last 30 seconds of this video and tell me the police are not on a power trip.
http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en-AU&brand=ninemsn&vid=7efa265b-4acc-4e75-b0ef-2767a5420c2a

Nick says:

10:29am | 10/07/09

Who would you rather have in your community: police, nurses and teachers or NRL players? Police nurses and teachers are central to the welfare of society, yet they always have to fight with industrial action for even a pittance of a pay rise. And this at a time when the politicians pay tribunal figures that out -of- town pollies need $77 a day to buy lunch on their way to the city!! The fact is that police, nurses and teachers will never be paid appropriately simply because there are too many of them. Wouldn’t it be nice if Government considered that their reward might be a more legitimate use of the budget than multi million consultancies and V8 car races, feasubility studies into Metro’s we don’t want etc etc?

Dave says:

11:13am | 10/07/09

Dave, if you think the NSW police force are ‘aggressive’ then I put it to you that you’ve never been to the US or overseas at all.

The police forces, sorry - its ‘Service’ now isn’t it? Or has it been changed to some other limp wristed non offensive term that I am unaware of? The Police ‘Services’ of this country are caught between the harsh realities of modern Australian society/living and the utter stupidity of PC and Beauraucratese that pollutes the political system. I feel sorry for them. Having to deal with the scum and detrius of society according to guidlines/laws being manufactured and changed on a daily basis by those who have about as much incommon and knowledge of those lower socio-economic areas as the Catholic Church with Mardi Gras, by those with vested political and financial interests in coralling us to use particular roads, and clean up the remnants of some other leftard wankers social experiments that have failed miserably - again.

And for all that they get treated with contempt, degridation etc not only by society but also by the very courts with morons like Pat O’Shane ruling that its fine to spit on and abuse police officers who are just trying to do their jobs - which is, if we all pause to remember, to protect and serve the rest of us.

Think about it, would you rather any Australian Police Officer on the streets or a Beruit Cut Lunch Commando of dubious loyalty, education and training toting that Assault rifle around? What about a Los Angeles Highway patrol officer? Or some hick Texan complete with cowboy hat and quick draw gunslinger holster?

You get good abd bad everywhere, but I’m glad we’ve got the Police Forces around the country we have.

Micko says:

11:48am | 10/07/09

According to the Police Award—the average cop earns $60-80 thousand dollars plus generous overtime and travel allowances—not a bad wicket considering that most complete their weekly hours in just three 12 hour shifts, giving them four days a week free to pursue other interests, frequently the second job. Police also enjoy what is probably the most generous death and disability scheme in the western world.

At a time when most people are just trying to keep their jobs, the claims of the Police Association are rather extraordinary.  I will not forget last election that the Police Association played a particularly destructive role in the debate, feeding the law and order auction with their campaign for an additional 3,000 police—at a time that crime rates were plummeting!  The major parties caved in to their demand, of course, and as a result we have an additional 800 police that we probably don’t need—that means 800 less nurses, or 800 less special education teachers—or more tax, take your pick.

Beware public sector unions campaigning on behalf of “heroes”—they play the game well, but their salaries are funded by the taxpayer—that’s all of us!

KJ says:

11:59am | 10/07/09

I am a police officer and have been for over 30 years.  Over the years I have been threatened with death (lost count of the number of times) told my family was ging to be killed and have had to defend myself against physical assault only to be investigated and accused of hurting the criminal.  For goodness sake.  I have disarmed numerous offenders over the years (before we had pepper spray) taking firearms and knives from them.  Sometimes a gun point and other times bare hands.  I often used to go to these jobs thinking this was my last day on earth, say my prayers and go and do the job.  Nothing much has changed except I now have hypertension and I am expected to be more gentle.  Very rarely do members of the public ever think to thank us - but when they do it means a hell of a lot to us because management dont seem to think it is a part of leadership to thank their members for a job well done.  They usually focus on hats or some other minor issue not done correctly in that split second of decision making.

E says:

12:28pm | 10/07/09

if they reckon they are underpaid, let them leave the force and get a regular job, probably with considerably lower renumeration. Our whole concept of policing needs to be examined and re-organised. We use pretty much the same model thet was first created in England by Rober Peel in 1829. Basically a civilian mititia force that adopted a military heirchy and organisation.
It is fundamentally flawed because today it tends to attract precisely the sort of people we dont want walking the street carrying guns with almost unfetted authrity over the general population. The majority of the police officers I have encountered in their proffesional capacity have displayed a sickeningly arrogant attitude to me and my asscociates. As a young man I winessed gross misconduct and brutality by various members of both the NSW and QLD police forces as have many of my freinds and family. (I am am no longer a young man)
We see almost daily stories of police abusing their powers, bashing suspects, fabricating evidence and the list goes on, it is even common knowledge that some have got away with murder (Roger Rogerson for example).
Our politicians continue to give them more powers and make them less accountable.
We need to carefully watch and limit the power of those whom we entrust with positions of authority over us like police and politicians.

iansand says:

02:23pm | 10/07/09

Why are police not respected?  One, of many reasons, is the way they do their job.  Remember the Wood Royal Commission, and the Trifecta?  It did not get much mileage then - there was no stubby cam, but it referred to the routine method of dealing with unruly people by fabricating and pursuing charges of offensive language, assault police and resist arrest.  The police knew it was unjustified but so did the victim and everyone else in the pub or on the street.  That means that all of those people, especially the crowd, learned to mistrust and disrespect the cops.

You reap what you sow.

KJ says:

02:45pm | 10/07/09

It is interesting that Micko says most coppers complete their weeks work in three 12 hour shifts.  What police force is that?  I would like to join it.  Some area do have 10 hours shifts (Communications for instance) but the rest of us work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week and at the end of the month accumulate and extra day off.
Many of us have been trying to get our association to consider a trial with 12 hour shifts, but no success.

MR says:

03:03pm | 10/07/09

It’s an interesting discussion.  On the one hand we have half the commenters here condemning the police for their often heavy handed tactics against innocent everyday Australians, and on the other we have the other half complaining that the police don’t get the support and assistance they need from their management and the courts.

The strange thing is that I think both halves are correct.  The NSW police force is both overly heavy handed and aggressive, AND completely unsupported by senior police management and the courts.  How frustrating it must be to watch jeering criminals taunt and spit at the police while the courts tie their hands - but how utterly inappropriate for them to take that frustration out on the rest of us when they stop us for a traffic violation, or when they interrupt a nightclub with their sniffer dogs.

Both issues need to be addresses individually as real and important problems - rather than each issue being used to cancel out the other.

The pay rise part of this is utter bull - as Micko points out police are paid very well already and to be demanding a pay rise during a time when the rest of the state is losing their jobs is just ridiculous.  And now they’re threatening traffic chaos if we don’t cave in to their blackmail?  Nice.

judge judi says:

10:38pm | 10/07/09

The police force may in fact be an important part of our social order and they should certainly earn a decent living as should we all. The comparison of Australia with Lebanon however probably has little to do with the story.

The chaos you describe in Lebanon may have more to do with a culture that has relied on strong leadership/patronage and the “honour system” and is only now coming to terms with the concept of the rule of law.

KJ says:

02:41pm | 11/07/09

Any time people have an opportunity to comment on the police, you always get the anti-police factions or those who have face what they deem as unfair treatment.  I as a police officer certainly do not condone heavy-handed tactics from any police without justification.  (i.e. in defence of themselves or a member of the public)  If people think they have been unfairly dealt with, there is an independent authority to investigate these complaints.  I have been the subject of several complaints throughout my career and every single one of them was unfounded, often with independent members of the public providing evidence supporting my version.  So yes, criminals in an attempt to deflect the heat make false or unfounded complaints against police.
The fact is, without a police service, we would have anarchy and whilst it is not perfect, it is probably the best you will get anywhere in the world.
Police are recruited from the general public and we are well aware criminals come from the same group.  However, we do our very best to ensure the appropriate people are recruited.

Paul says:

03:50pm | 11/07/09

My family business got robbed twice this week, as I know it will next week. By lawless ‘untouchable’ petrol cartels. Give me a taser & one of those Labor protected species, fat oil executives for 5 minutes & I will save the state some police dollars.

Peter says:

05:13pm | 11/07/09

For the training and their educational qualifications policing is quiet well paid. It is very well paid compared with someone with an equivalent background in the private sector.  The number of RDOs and allowances for night shifts, adds up quickly.  Then there is down time for training. 
The article’s statement that police are “..spat at, abused, and victimised daily..” is the usual hyperbole that goes with the “police-don’t-get-respect” line this piece takes.  Assertion upon assertion.  Being abused is not a wages issue.  The reality is that police deal with the mentally ill, the dysfunctional, drug and alcohol abusers, the distressed and, yes, those who are just bad.  That has always been the case. That will always be the case.  If someone spits on a police officer that is an offence.  They should and do get charged. Abusing a copper is an easy ride to an offensive language charge.  If someone can’t handle the stresses of dealing with those types or dealing with the effects of crime then they should consider another line of work.  Complaining about bad behaviour by the public used to be the line used to make us “understand” when police used excessive force, the euphamism for assault, in the “good old days.”
Despite what the tabloid press says Australia is a peaceful society with low rates of violent crime.  The latest Morgan survey on professions shows that police enjoy broad public support.  Most police are decent people doing a decent job.  They get paid well enough for it. 
This article is more a puff piece for the Police Association than any sort of commentary or analysis.

Jai says:

11:41am | 12/07/09

Whenever a debate in relation to police comes up you will always get the whingers who most probably hd a negative interaction with police when caught for doing the wrong thing.  There are 15000 police in NSW, they are not all in the game of revenue raising.  The payrise that is sought is not even keeping up with CPI.  It is not that much.  The comment in relation to the death and disability scheme is completely false and has no foundation.
As a serving police officer of 20 years, I agree we are well paid but policing will and does take its toll.  I have seen things that will haunt me until I die, but I chose this profession and I could not see myself doing anything else.  There is no greater honour then to investigate a murder which I have done on many occasions.  What the public don’t see is the numerous phone calls from the families of the victims at all hours of the day and night, on your days off and leave.  I keep in touch with these people and make sure they are going allright long after the trial is over.  There are many fine examples of good police in NSW.  These stories don’t sell papers so they don’t make the headlines.

Sam Eykamp says:

07:26am | 13/07/09

NSW police are a joke. We need police with better skills, for the most part they are under achievers & uneducated. Maybe if they are payed more it will attract better coppers. But something has to happen her in country NSW we are lucky if they even come when you call them.

Lauren says:

08:45pm | 15/07/09

David,
Firstly, as a Firefighter, I attend car accidents and sometimes what you see isn’t very nice. However, speed limits are there for a reason. Driving as you know is a skill and can be very dangerous, so why increase the danger by increasing the speed limit?

Secondly, as a Justice student I have a whole new insight into the world of policing,  how many factors they must take into account, how much evidence they must sought through and the best time to do a raid, as such. So I must ask you, are you a police officer? how would you know of any violence that may or may not be in a bar? there may be an offender escaped from custody or if you say the dog squad were there it could have been related to drugs… whether you new what was going on or not, police money and resources are not being wasted, they are doing a job a lot of other people would not.

And Sam Eykamp NSW is a state not a country.

Jarred says:

03:17pm | 17/07/09

i completely agree lauren, are you a police officer, do you see police misusing their power or do you just read it in the papers and amuse every police officer must be crooked. oh and sam i take you’ve conducted a educational exam on a police officer lately, what that, you haven’t? then keep your mouth shut

RJ says:

09:20pm | 22/07/09

As usual the ill-informed anti police brigade making their comments. And Micko $60 to $80k a year, what part of the award did you read, the sergeants award or detectives? And the “generous” death and disability that you rave on about comes out of my own pocket, ask a politician where their D and D comes from? People like you should stick to driving trucks or what ever it is that you do as a “real” job. 

Also the comment about working three 12 hour shifts to make up the working week, oh I wish it could be that simple. Why don’t you stay up from 6pm through to 6am and then lose a day catching up on your sleep, did I also mention that shift work will shorten my life by 10-15 years? (This is fact not made up rubbish).

And it is true that the courts and hierachy don’t back the frontline police and this leads to a general lack of respect towards police because crims get off and boast about it.

And to those that harp on about seeing police brutality when they were young, move on and get over it, I am not to blame for the inappropriate actions of police over 20 years ago.

The pay rise and the loss of conditions that the government offered us, equates to a 5% pay drop.

Raymond says:

02:01pm | 28/07/09

Who is going to pay for this ill advised grab at the public purse. The Fair Pay tribunal gave nothing to the lowest paid workers because of the currect financial turmoil, yet police set out with a very aggressive campaign for a pay rise which is simply not justified. Inflation is 1.6%!! Pay freezes are the norm during this difficult time.The Police Association threats to the Premier are totally out of order. Bob Pritchard’s statement that the Govt has not put forward a “negotiable position” (despite a 4% offer with productivity gains) is bordering on lying to the public. He comes across as an out and out whinger. The state has put on extra police, (I believe there are now more than 15,000 police in this state), given them more and more resources, cars, guns, Tasers, generous pensions and conditions - you name it they have got it. The Govt continually shows its support for police, yet the first response from police is “that we have not got sufficient resources”. Like the rest of us start working with what you have got.
It is most important for Police to have the respect of the community. However they must earn the respect by the way they go about their jobs and working with their employer, which is in turn the NSW taxpayer. A Union Thug approach is not the way to go about it.

Neil whose sister's a cop says:

06:53pm | 28/07/09

Would you people rather the army did the police force’s job for them? (Remembering the army isn’t trained to police it’s own citizens) so without a police force we’d be in a SIEGE situation army trucks driving all over Melb, and Syd, and Cbr, the condemnation from overseas countries, people terrified on the streets…is that what you people want is it?

(Denzel Washington) which is a film I HIGHLY recommend watching the film, to

Jai says:

10:23pm | 28/07/09

Raymond, you have demonstrated that you have absolutely no idea about the work conditions or entitlements of the police.  Anyone recruited after 1988 dont get a pension.  Out of the current 15000 police, there are only about 2000 Pre 88’s remaining who are entitled to a pension if hurt on duty or make it to retirement.  The remaining negotiated a death and disabilty payment 4 years ago which the police officers pay for.  This is one of the entitlements the goverment wants to strip from police.  Get the facts Ray before you comment on something you know nothing about. P.S   Police also pay taxes.

Neil whose sister's a cop says:

08:56am | 29/07/09

Raymond I’ll spell it out for you again, without a police force we’d be stuffed. Simple as that mate.