No wonder we’re fearful amid crimes like the Lin killings

Darren W says:

07:53am | 10/08/09

The main risk I face nearly weekly, driving the Pacific Highway, is B-double semi trailors tailgating me, literally as close as 2-3 metres. Which to me is like having a 20 ton gun pointed at your head - one miniscule error and it wouldn’t be pretty. And I’m just an average on-the-limit driver. Then I stop for petrol and some big petrol company fleeces me with inflated prices - twice weekly. Sometimes I wish I was Mad Max so I could get some justice.(I even tried to one handedly take a phone pic of a tailgating truck at 110 km/h) Thats my relatively unexciting crime ‘Australian Story’. Table thumping pollies stealing our civil rights, terrorists, random mass murderers and scary sharks make me roll my eyes. I spit on these scared middle class people and broken record media that would rather we live in a fear based police state than cherish a democratic society where occaisonally s**t happens.  Actually I don’t think we deserve democracy. We are becoming like the sheeplike paranoid surveillance addicted British.

Jonathan says:

08:13am | 10/08/09

Whoa Darren:  way to de-rail a thread, and on the first post no less.
Sounds like you’re a bit angry.  I suggest going to see someone before it gets out of hand.  Seriously.
Let me suggest something: how about you change your lifestyle so you don’t have to drive on the Pacific Hway all the time.  That will have the two-pronged effect of getting you out of the way of lunatic truck drivers and reduce your dependence on fossil fuels.  I used to drive to work almost an hour each way through horrible Sydney traffic.  I hated it, sitting breathing fumes and taking my life in my hands just being on the road with all those maniacs, not to mention the hundreds of dollars a month i was spending on fuel.  So I mad plans, changed jobs, moved close to my new job, sold my car and now ride a bike everywhere.  No stress, no can bills and my commuting time is down to 15 minutes each way.
If you hate your life, change it.

iansand says:

08:24am | 10/08/09

Predictably, the media gets a wag of the finger, with the report stating previous research had shown people who “relied on talkback radio, family and friends or commercial television have less accurate perceptions of crime than those who rely on other sources”.

I wonder why, when, after acknowledging the statistics, you try to keep us scared?

RT says:

08:42am | 10/08/09

Jonathon - I hear what you say, but as both a driver and cyclist myself, I wouldn’t choose to base my commuting completely on cycling - not in Sydney anyway, where the cycleways are not extensive - because too often you’re on the road sharing it with ‘all those idiots’ that you were trying to escape, except that now you don’t have that protective steel cage of your automobile anymore.

RT says:

08:45am | 10/08/09

‘Crime low, nothing much to worry about’.  As a headline, it’s not likely to get the attention that the rare horrific murder gets, is it? Sure, the media is partly to blame, but as that example shows, people lap up stories that play to their fears. Society is to blame.

jonathan says:

09:18am | 10/08/09

Hi RT:  yeh, I know Sydney’s roads are pretty bad and the drivers are insane, as are the pedestrians and most of the people on bikes.  I’m fortunate in that my ride is only about 5kms each way and not at peak times.  I’d still rather take my chances on a bike though: a lot less people get killed every year cycling than get killed in cars or just walking along.
My point was that old matey needs to change something in his life before he goes postal and does something we all regret.

Grant says:

10:14am | 10/08/09

Wow, someone in the media who has actually reported that crime is on the a rapid decline rather than sensatiionaling and polarising people and stating the opposite.

Crime all across the world in developed countries are on the decline - fact.  Better policing, forensic work, education, lower unemployment and numerous other factors have contributed to the decline.  New York has had it’s loweset murder and assault rates ever. 

Now Imagine 1960-70’s Australia.  You’d get in a brawl at the local pub for looking at someone the wrong way and shived whilst walking down the street by the local milkman for not having the right change.

And yet, in spite of this factual researched report which clearly details the statistics and information regarding the decline.  You still look for other reasons as to why its bad, that it must be the ferocity or types of crimes. 

Can we just admit it too ourselves and say that yes, society is much (better) safer these days. and No, the moral fibre of sociey isn’t breaking down with the kids and their bee-bop music…  that in fact it’s the previous generations who are wrong and it was during their time that it was unsafe inside a moral vaccum.. 

That’s right , I said it…

blue tongue says:

10:26am | 10/08/09

The so-called reports of the type you are quoting are prepared using data that has been filtered, sterilised, spun and re-packaged until it bears no resemblance to reality. In fact the quoted report is itself a form of spin and the word “perception” is a standard tool used to make people think their experience of crime puts them in a minority.

I reject the notion that public perceptions of crime are based primarily on media reporting. The reality is that crime rates are so high that almost everyone is touched by it, our insurance premiums reflect the real cost of crime in our society and anyone who steps outside their front door can see the true extent of crime for themselves. It’s not about perception, it’s about experience.

Take the spin doctors out of the equation, use correct data and you’ll have a report that correlates with reality. Crime rates, especially violent crime rates, are significantly higher today than they were a decade ago.

Ten years ago, assaults on ambulance officers were 3000% less frequent. Ten years ago, having you car stolen did not mean a gun in your face. Ten years ago, a person who confronted a 15 year old committing a crime was not likely to have a knife pulled on them.

The REAL data do not show that violent crime is declining. And the reason it is not declining is because local court magistrates are farming crime by repeatedly issuing suspended sentences to repeat offenders.

Grant says:

10:50am | 10/08/09

blue tongue,

Are you special needs…  Sooo, what are you basing this ‘theory’ on?  your experience, a gut feeling, your local parish, the old neighbours from across the road..?  perhaps its the neighbourhood your in…

Facts buddy, we only deal in facts,...  not that you “think” that its getting worse or you that you watched a t.v. show or read an article and they told you its worse. 

Do some research, there are thousands of different reports from state and federal governments and international organisations that have these kinds evidence based reports which contain statistics, and they all says the same thing…

Crimes rates have been on the decrease since cave man times mate… 

So you sir are wrong have no evidence to base your argument on, if not please post a link of any credible paper that backs up your statement…

Eric says:

10:54am | 10/08/09

Grant, you resort to name-calling when someone doubts your unsupported word.

I suspect that reflects a deficiency in your argument.

Steve S says:

10:56am | 10/08/09

As we speak, there’d appear to be a domestic situation in Adelaide where a 4 year old boy has been murdered, his brother and mother hospitalised and the father taken to a near by policestation for questioning.  Whether crime statistics indicate a lowering in crime or not, scenes such as this over the last twenty odd years appear to be more commonplace.  A grandfather was sentenced last week for the murder of his wife and grandchildren last week as well as the attempted murder of his daughter.  Alcohol related violence particularly in certain hot spots appears to be on the rise and knife and gun related crime certainly seems to be more prevalent these days.  A spate of glassings and rock throwing incidents on freeways appear to have featured far more often and the ages of the assailants appear to be treding towards teenagers.  Australia wouldn’t appear to be the only place experiencing these types of crimes as Europe and GB in particular seem to facing the same sorts of problems.  Nothing seems to shock us anymore.  Ever since 9/11 and the Port Arthur massacre, we seem to be shock-proof these days and I don’t think there is any one answer to these problems.  As I travel to work each day, I see graffitti scrawned fences etc in the west and catch graffitti scrawned trains in the east.  Whereas before there were distinct socio-economic areas as regards a general lack of respect for anything and everything, this no longer seems to be the case.

iansand says:

11:12am | 10/08/09

Steve S @10:56 - Statistics please.  You do realise that your post is an example of the problem identified in all studies conducted with any sort of rigour?  We believe things are getting worse when statistics tell us they are getting better.

DJC says:

11:19am | 10/08/09

I’d be interested to know exactly how these crime statistics are compiled. Do they rely on the conviction rate or the number of crimes reported to police? Because in my experience, policing practices have deteriorated to the point that police nowadays are more like offender-oriented social workers than law enforcers. I’m convinced that this has some bearing on the crime statistics.

An example. I’m 30 years old and up until about three years ago, I had lived my whole life in the Parramatta area. About four years ago I was assaulted by a group of young men not far from Parramatta station. Nothing too serious but it was an assault nevertheless. I called the police. They arrived and refused to take a report or a statement from me. It was too time consuming and there was little chance of a conviction for them. That was it. I had the impression from the senior officer (who looked barely 21 years old) that if I continued insisting that something be done, I’d be in trouble!

So later that day I went to the police station to report the assault and complain about the previous officers. Nothing. A wall of beligerance from the moment I walked in. The senior constable on the front desk refused to take my report or my complaint. Apparently he was the most senior officer at Parramatta police station at 4.30 of a weekday afternoon. The duty officer was “unavailable”. I was advised to forget about the whole thing and get on with my life.

So at least one assault didn’t make it into the statistics that day. I wonder how common it is for police to refuse to investigate crimes. I have friends who have recounted similar stories so I doubt it is uncommon. I realise police have discretion but the impression I got that day from the police was that it was just all too hard. I certainly don’t envy them their job. Not least of all in Parramatta, where over the past 10 or 15 years the place has descended into a lawless ethnic ghetto. But if I, a law abiding, well dressed professional make no headway with the police, what hope does someone less able to articulate themselves have? Even more scope for the police to massage the crime statistics I’d say.

darren w says:

11:35am | 10/08/09

Johnathan: You are making ALOT of assumptions there buddy! The only thing I despise -  if you reread my post - is Aussies that give up their democracy, apathetically and for no reason because a heinous crime happens once in awhile (compared to the States where I have lived). I was merely stating my experience of (some) truckies behavior and their potential to cause a mass killing through deadlines, stupidity or impatience (look up the stats on road fatalities Johnathan,  it overwhelmingly eclipses terror, sharks, bikies all put together.) And if I derailed the post… whine to the moderator Johnathan… not me

jonathan says:

12:29pm | 10/08/09

Hi Darren,
Sorry to make assumptions, but just think for a second what your comment sounded like: you talk about wishing you could take Mad Max-style vengeance on truckies who tailgate you…
I’m with you all the way on road deaths.  I think it’s disgusting and a national shame that so many people are killed, so many lives ruined because of the stupidity of drivers.  I agree that it’s a crime and I agree that people who cause death at the wheel of a motor vehicle should be charged with manslaughter.  A story surfaced recently of a senior gent who killed a cyclist because he lost concentration for a minute.  He received a fine and a 2 year license suspension.  That penalty is a crime.
I still suggest that you settle down a bit.  When people start talking vigilanteism I start getting very scared, even if I agree with their basic ideas.  Also, I’d hate to be coming the other way while you’re trying to take a photo of a tailgating truck at 110km/h…

Grant says:

12:52pm | 10/08/09

Eric,

Point to where it says that name calling means there’s a deficiency in an argument…

For example, if I called someone a jerk, for example like you.  But I still provided a well thought out critiqued argument backed up by peer reviewed evidence, would that make the argument containing fact incorrect?

Eric, don’t fall in to the same wowserism caricatures like Blue Tongue, Steve S and Steve Fielding by thinking that everything is worse than it was in the ‘good old days’.

blue tongue says:

01:12pm | 10/08/09

Grant, here are some facts ; 1. I don’t watch TV or listen to commercial radio 2. My parish is irrelevant since I am not a Christian 3. My work involves real-world crime data, before it is cleansed. Unlike you, I deal with reality.

darrenw says:

01:17pm | 10/08/09

Johnathan YOU need to settle down mate and get a sense of humor. It was a smirk ok?  I have never once had any grand delusions of being Mel Gibson or Tina Turner in 35 years of impeccable driving, starting at the age of 11 driving utes and tractors in the country. The piece was about statistics and the PERCEPTION of crime. I told you what my perception is and my contempt at the hysteria makers that degrade our civil rights and coldly manipulate horrible tragedies for their own political ends. (Some Labor leaders come to mind) The Pacific Highway wouldn’t get into the news like this unless two whole families died spectacularly. Now Im a vigilante? The photo, yes thats a bit silly and extreme but having previously filed a company complaint,  they said it was my word against the truckers. I had a real nutcase up my bum for a kilometre, it was divided but hardly a shoulder to pull onto. Its the police job to sort this stuff out on the road not just collect taxes.

Tim Bennett says:

01:42pm | 10/08/09

@Colgo, has anyone ever studied the reporting of violence in mass media? Is there a correlation between the gross amount, or proportion, of stories relating to violent crime, and the community’s perceptions of crime levels? The media is how most people find out about violent crime, so I think its role in public perceptions of violence deserves a deeper analysis than “gets a wag of the finger”.

Grant says:

01:49pm | 10/08/09

Eric,

Since you don’t watch TV then I guess I should listen to what you say,  that really helps your argument…  I have provided some answers to your three points, which will throw your world and your perception of self and being in to very question.

1. I don’t watch TV or listen to commercial radio:
http://www.stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/26/28-not-having-a-tv/
http://www.stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/31/44-public-radio/

2. My parish is irrelevant since I am not a Christian:
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/18/2-religions-that-their-parents-dont-belong-to/

3. My work involves real-world crime data, before it is cleansed. Unlike you, I deal with reality.
I don’t have a link for this one..

By the way, I like TV, radio, playing wow and internet porn… sometimes I like do them all at the same time.

steve s says:

01:57pm | 10/08/09

Iansand, if you want to rely on statistics to mount your argument, you’ll need to obtain them yourself.  I would suggest though that a number of assaults, sexual or otherwise, go unreported due to fear of retribution or that it’s pointless reporting them because nothing ever happens.  A lot of the time damage to car and property goes unreported because it’s a fruitless exercise.  Wilful damage to property like trains is far more prevalent than it once was and nowadays they just blatantly vandalize residential properties whereas in yesteryear they restricted it to commercial properties.  You may be an apologist for Don Weatherburn and his ilk but I think the crime statistics are about as accurate as the employment statistics ie they don’t tell the full story and in parts, not even half of it.

superstar77 says:

02:40pm | 10/08/09

The other thing to keep in mind about crime statistics is that they can change what is a reportable statistic.  For instance laws relating to juveniles have been changed in the legislation in Queensland which change the way juvenile statistics are reported.  The government then purports that juvenile crime is decreasing when in actual fact crimes that would have been recordable for juveniles no longer are.  So I think it is also important to consider not only the nature of crime changing but what is actually allowed to be reported.

darrenw says:

02:50pm | 10/08/09

I think you nervous and jumpy Aussies need to get a two handed grip on yourselves and work out what you have in this land.  The murder stats, brutality and sheer psychopathic insanity in the States resembles a Civil War.  Australia looks like a preschool or utopia in comparison! Aussies will live long, mostly violence free healthy lives. Unless you are black that is.

Nigel says:

03:15pm | 10/08/09

When was the last time you heard of a bank robbery?
But when was the last time you heard of bank robbery?
Things have changed. Corporations are the new criminals.

PL says:

03:27pm | 10/08/09

In essence both sides here espouse some sort of truth - crime has increased in the last twenty years, but the crime rate has remained level or in some areas decreased. So what blue tongue testifies from experience can be true - a person can be exposed to crime at an experiential level more often, but at the same time the increase in population in an area would not show any change in the rate.
In saying that the perception that crime is on an exponential increase is untrue and, I believe, tends towards more crime. People who perceive their security threatened tend to lash out. It is important that people are not given anything to fear but at the same time, keep vigilant in reducing crime.

iansand says:

03:43pm | 10/08/09

steve s@1:57 Pardon?  People adopt a proper methodology, aware of all those factors you mention, and draw certain conclusions.  More importantly, they disclose the methodology so any flaws are immediately apparent.  You disagree with those conclusions so you make up some reasons why they MUST be wrong based on what?

Fred says:

04:35pm | 10/08/09

lol@ everyone in this thread confirming exactly what the article is trying to get across “Well statistically crime might be on the decline, but it certainly seems like it’s rising to me. My brother got bashed the other day and I dont remember so grafitti when I was a youngster….etc etc”

Your perception is wrong people. Just because you know a victim of crime it doesnt mean there is more crime!

Amanda says:

05:03pm | 10/08/09

Unfortunately, I’m not an academic or whizz with statistics and facts regarding crime; I only have my own experiences to make judgements with. It appears to me that there are certain types of subtle crimes that are increasing such as bullying, abuse and victimization particularly by women directed at those they feel superior to; or perhaps threatened by. Over the long term, these crimes have an accumulative effect which can result in more serious crimes. It’s the subtlety of the bullying/abuse that enables it to continue unchecked and ignored by law enforcement and government investigators. Men are guilty of it too but it seems to be more prevalent in females. That’s all I’ve got to offer, sorry…

Steve S says:

06:27pm | 10/08/09

Iansand, just because a bunch of bureaucrats collate a bunch of statistics and come to conclusions doesn’t automatically make them right.  I work for a large financial institution in an IT area and the manner in which project estimation tools are used is farcical, similarly groupwide surveys are hailed as accurate barometers when most of the employees are coerced into completing the survey.  Your attitude suggests that you’re a firm believer in crime stats and good luck to you and your family and I sincerely hope you live a happy and peaceful life;o)

iansand says:

07:26pm | 10/08/09

Steve S @6:27 Evidence or anecdote?  Which do you prefer?  Personally I am a firm believer in evidence, but I don’t work in a large financial institution so I don’t have your expertise in crime trends.

brad says:

11:07pm | 10/08/09

Go to the link below, I think you will find since John Howard introduced guns laws we have been better off.
http://www.aic.gov.au/en/statistics/homicide.aspx