Have you ever tried to tell someone who loves their VB (or any other mainstream beer) that there is little taste difference between their beer and others? Have you told them they could not tell the difference in a three-way blind taste test? It doesn’t go down well.

I'm not deluded ... VB and Tooheys taste as bad as each other. Picture: Jon Hargest

There is a disputte of delusional proportions. Right up until the glasses come out for the taste test. Fill the glasses up with VB and two other similar lagers. Ask which one is VB and they wont know. They’ll have an accuracy rate no better than chance. 

Then something interesting will happen. Excuses. The glasses have soap in them. I’ve got a cold. You’re trying to trick me. And so on.

Now, if you thought that was difficult, have you ever tried to get a politician to admit they’re wrong? They can lie so emphatically its hard not to believe them. 

And then there’s Lance Armstrong! He’s been found guilty, so how can he appear so indignant about it. So free of sin?

The issue with getting someone to admit they were wrong, or stop denying the truth that is plainly there for everyone to see is “cognitive dissonance”.

Cognitive dissonance is a state of being where one’s beliefs are not aligned with one’s actions. If you stay in this state you’ll eventually go crazy, or (more likely) either change your beliefs to make sense of your actions, or your actions to make sense of your beliefs (much harder to do).

Take for example a woman who feels strongly for the environment, but works for an overly polluting factory. She’ll either have to change or beliefs, or her job. She’ll be very ill at ease until this happens.

The power of cognitive dissonance was discovered by a psychologist called Festinger in the 1950s. In his seminal experiments he asked people to do an extremely boring task (push cotton spools around a box for an hour). 

Festinger then paid these subjects to lie to other prospective subjects about the experiment, getting them to say it was a really exciting experiment they were about to participate in. He paid half $1 and half $20. Afterwards he asked the subjects what they really thought of the (genuinely boring) experiment.

Those paid $20 said it was boring, those paid $1 said it was actually really enjoyable. This is interesting. As they were only paid $1 to lie to others, they had to then lie to themselves to justify their behaviour. Those paid $20 were fine with lying. They were able to rationalise their actions (for $20) so it was still consistent with their beliefs (the task was boring).

We all rationalise to avoid the feelings of cognitive dissonance. How would our beer lover above feel after investing so much of himself into his beloved VB? He wears the VB shirt, and collected the Booney Doll. He loves the old VB ads, and he swears by the product, wouldn’t drink anything else.

Now you come along and tell him it tastes the same as other beers? Please! He just won’t believe you.

To highlight to him that he couldn’t actually tell the difference between VB, Carlton Draught and Melbourne Bitter will not be enough to change his allegiance to VB. He’ll deny the evidence put in front of him, and stand by the taste of his beloved VB. To admit he can taste the difference would create cognitive dissonance.

The politician takes this rationalisation of behaviour even further. They have changed his worldview to make sense of his actions.

They are so vocal about their beliefs, that to accept they are wrong, even if presented with ‘hard evidence’ to the contrary they still can’t bring themselves to see it. They make sense of their actions by changing their beliefs, distorting their cognitions to make their actions seem ‘right’. They believe in the lie.

And then we get to Lance. Lance has twisted his worldview to make it acceptable in his mind that it’s OK to do drugs and lie about it. He does not see himself as a bad person, in fact in his mind he’s a savior to millions and a role model.

He’s genuinely insulted that people have the audacity to suggest he’s done something illegal. He’s had to justify his actions (doing illegal drugs) by changing and refining his beliefs over many years. He can’t just undo that willy-nilly.

Imagine if he did.

He hates drug users, he hates cheats. He is a moral man who has helped save and inspire millions. How can a person like that be a cheater who takes illegal drugs.

We all need to justify our actions by changing our beliefs (look what happens when you go and work for the competition), in fact we do it on a daily level. It’s much easier to change attitude through action, than action through attitude.

However, when our actions are extreme, then we must change our cognitions to such an extreme level that we live the lie. We lie to ourselves to preserve our sanity, all of us.

Comments on this post will close at 8pm AEST.

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    • ramases says:

      10:20am | 08/11/12

      If you really want to put the cat amongst the pigeons, fill all 3 glasses with their favourite tipple and watch as they struggle to guess which one is their favourite.
        As for Armstrong, too many words have been written and too much wasted space has been utilised about this man already, he’s not even worth mentioning even in passing.

    • morrgo says:

      10:21am | 08/11/12

      VB is not the greatest beer, but it is quite distinguishable from, say, Toohey’s New, if you are willing to consider foreign tipples.  VB is also supposed to be a bitter, not a lager, but consumer psychologists are obviously not food technicians.  The rest of the product placement, sorry, article, goes downhill after VB.

    • TimF says:

      01:56pm | 08/11/12

      Cascade Pale Ale is another marketing offender. Just a standard Aussie lager just like all the rest but they market as a completely different syle of beer. I did the Cascade brewery tour recently and the tour guide said that it’s still called pale ale to maintain tradition. How about they maintain tradition by actually brewing a pale ale!

    • FlyOnTheWall says:

      10:29am | 08/11/12

      I don’t think VB drinkers suffer from cognative dissonance, but more brand loyalty. If they knew other beer tasted the same or better (I’m currently a sampler of beer from as many boutique breweries as I can find - my only [current] loyalty is to a nice Ale) then, perhaps they could be accused of this.
      VB has posibly the most successful marketing campaign ever in this country. The old “hard earned thirst, needs a big cold beer” ads were, and remain, utterly brilliant.

      Lance Armstrong, cannot afford to come clean. He knows he’s guilty, but to admit it, will literally, cost him his fortune. It may cost him that regardless, but an admission would guarantee it.

      I would accuse Al Gore and his disciples of cognitive dissonance - firm held belief in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary - such that the world has not warmed for 16 years. The oceans have not warmed since 2003. The warming that led to this hyperbolic topic lasted for only 15 or so years, but here we are. Being a global warming agnostic (intentional use of that phrase for obvious reasons) - I see this suspension of disbelief - or, shall we call it, denial - all the time. Take the tropical storm Sandy. More evidence of global warming? Despite it not being summer, and ocean temps as they were in 2003, yet the media, the climate commission and all the hangers on are intentionally misleading the public to point the finger at the [non present] global warming monster… textbook cognitive dissonance.

    • andye says:

      11:24am | 08/11/12

      @FlyOnTheWall - “I would accuse Al Gore and his disciples of cognitive dissonance - firm held belief in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary - such that the world has not warmed for 16 years.”

      This is bull****, mate. Most of the hottest years on record were during that period. Not only that, temperatures DID increase over that time, just not by very much compared to the longer term average. Even cherry-picking the super hot year on 1997 results in a slight increase now. Haven’t you ever noticed that almost every example like this starts at 1997? What kind of “evidence” only works if you do the sums from one very unusual year?

      Thing is, you could be absolutely right. Climate change might not be real or might be part of something else. The evidence you are presenting is NOT evidence of that, however. You would only be right about climate change in the same way I would be right if I said climate change wasn’t real because a giant space robot from the planet bloop came to me in a dream and told me so. That is, by accident.

    • selfnarrates says:

      11:36am | 08/11/12

      “Yes mainstream Climate Scientists seem to be suffering from Cognitive Dissonance quiet badly.” I wrote sardonically.

    • ramases says:

      02:15pm | 08/11/12

      And Andye the evidence that is submitted by the so called Climate Change Scientists are nothing but guesses and usually wrong.Their modelling is like all modelling is designed to give the answers they require to achieve the monetary gains they have become accustomed to by agreeing with everything the Government requires.
        Hells bells man they cant even get the forecast right on a daily basis let alone what’s going to happen in 5, 10 or 20 years from now.

    • andye says:

      03:33pm | 08/11/12

      @ramases - “And Andye the evidence that is submitted by the so called Climate Change Scientists are nothing but guesses and usually wrong.Their modelling is like all modelling is designed to give the answers they require to achieve the monetary gains they have become accustomed to by agreeing with everything the Government requires.”

      The guys writing the denier books and doing speaking tours are making more personal wealth than these scientists you are rabbiting on about. You got suckered.

      I note you have stopped including actual climate change facts. Understandable - they are dead easy to refute. Vague conspiracy theories are much harder.

      @ramases - “Hells bells man they cant even get the forecast right on a daily basis let alone what’s going to happen in 5, 10 or 20 years from now.”

      Do you mean the weather? That is meteorology, not climate science. You seem a little confused.

    • Sam Scout says:

      10:35am | 08/11/12

      To say there is no difference between beers is fighing talk.

      My top three AUD beers are:

      1. Coopers Red
      2. White Swan
      3. XXXX Gold (tastes like the original XXXX)

      Top three FX beers

      1. Theakson XB
      2. Tusker
      3. Duval

    • St. Michael says:

      11:00am | 08/11/12

      There is no difference between beers.  They all contain a certain content of alcohol, i.e. a poison; ingested in enough volumes, they will all make you think you are capable of controlling a car when the reverse is the case; ingested in enough volumes and in enough frequency, they will all destroy your liver and thus by extension kill you.

    • HC says:

      11:33am | 08/11/12

      @ St. Michael

      Life, ingested in large enough quantities also will, by extension, kill you.  Your point is irrelevant.

      The survivability rate of everyone is zero, I’d much rather live a full, rich and enjoyable but short life than a long one miserably avoiding anything that could potentially shorten my lifespan.

      And beer never makes me feel like a better driver, I’m not an idiot when I’m sober therefore I’m not an idiot when I’m drunk.

    • St. Michael says:

      12:00pm | 08/11/12

      HC, go and visit a liver cancer ward.  Ask how many of them were alcoholics.  Ask how many of them think they had a rich, full, and enjoyable life.  Ask them whether dying for it thirty years early on their expected lifespan pays for it. Ask the spouses and children of violent alcoholics whether they have rich, full, and enjoyable lives.

      It’s not my problem your life is that empty you think reducing its volume and and filling it up with a poison somehow compensates for it.

    • HC says:

      12:46pm | 08/11/12

      Umm, moderation is key to that shorter more fulfilling life as well as the ability to not restrict yourself from pleasurable experiences, I’ll never be an alcoholic so I don’t really care what forms of cancer they’re dying from and regardless of what I do or do not ingest I have a 1 in 2 chance of getting cancer in some form or another anyway so fvck it, I’ll enjoy a beer or two if you don’t mind and maybe the odd single malt!  I don’t drink to have fun but rather have fun while drinking (and when not drinking as well).  I also enjoy the odd cigarette or 2 and on very, very rare ocassions a cigar or a joint (the horror!!).

      Live and let live, eat, drink (or don’t) and be merry.  Whinging about poison and other people’s lifestyle choices just sounds sanctimonious.

    • willie says:

      01:17pm | 08/11/12

      Too right Michael hat why I never touch the stuff. It’s smack all the way for me.

      Anyway. I’m not sure if I could pick VB from CD as I hardly drink CD but I could pick either from a line of other beers. Maybe non beer drinkers have had their tongue eroded by all the nasty acidic crap they drink.

      Which is the real point. Shouldn’t we be making fun of all those pretentious wine drinkers who really don’t know the difference between wines.

    • St. Michael says:

      02:26pm | 08/11/12

      @ HC: “I’ll never be an alcoholic so I don’t really care what forms of cancer they’re dying from…”

      You think anyone consciously chooses to become an alcoholic?
      Or that you can’t be a social drinker for many years before becoming one?

      “I have a 1 in 2 chance of getting cancer in some form or another anyway so fvck it…”

      1 in 2 or more men will have testicular cancer at the time of their death, it’s true.  However: it’s one thing to be diagnosed with testicular cancer when you’re about 90 or so and dying because you have heart failure, with your family around you, grown up and able to look after themselves.  It’s another thing to be diagnosed with liver cancer when you’re about 50 or so, your children not fully independent, and spend the rest of your short, miserable life praying that someone who ticked “Organ Donor” on their driver’s licence and who didn’t fuck their liver up with alcohol dies in a car crash—maybe from another drunk driver, who knows—so you can get a second lease on life.

    • HC says:

      03:27pm | 08/11/12

      @St Michael

      Of course people choose to become alcoholics, at some stage they think that drinking to excess is a great way to numb whatever psychological pain they’re going through and so starts the long road to alcoholism.  Alcohol is not a physically addictive drug like opiates are.  The same goes for tobacco or World of Warcraft, people choose to become addicted to these substances.  The difference is only the weak blame the substance rather than themselves for their addiction.  I find people who hold such vehement and absolute views such as yours to be hiding an inherent weakness to the subject at hand.  Is that the real reason behind your teetotallism?

      And I didn’t say testicular cancer, I said cancer, whether it’s throat, lung, skin, balls, prostate, stomach, blood, liver or whatever it makes no difference, chances are you’ll get at least one of these no matter how healthy you are and no amount of clean-living is going to prevent it completely though your chances might be reduced slightly.  And it can happen at any age, depends on how much of a b!tch G-d is to you (if you believe in that kind of crap).  Just ask the 10 year kid next door to me who’s trying to fight blood cancer.  What did he do to deserve leukemia at such a young age?

    • St. Michael says:

      05:56pm | 08/11/12

      @ HC: “Of course people choose to become alcoholics,”

      I didn’t say choose.  I said consciously choose.  Very large difference.  You don’t appear to get that just yet.  In common with a lot of alcoholics.

      For the record, I’m not teetotal.  But I’ve seen enough shit in my various roles to get a pretty good idea of how much of a “rich, full, and enjoyable life” alcohol produces.

      I suggest you stop projecting your insecurities on me by accusing me of a weakness on this issue.  You got noisy when I called alcohol a poison.  You got upset about it because it’s the truth.  I can’t help you with being unable to handle the truth.

      “Just ask the 10 year kid next door to me who’s trying to fight blood cancer.  What did he do to deserve leukemia at such a young age?”

      Nothing.  He’s a completely a different kettle of fish to a person who drinks alcohol, which means your excuse is invalid.  Leukaemia sufferers do not voluntarily assume the risk of contracting cancer.  Alcohol drinkers do.  Liver and lung cancer happen largely because of alcohol and cigarette consumption.  In both cases, it’s a conscious and voluntary assumption of risk.  You are knowingly putting yourself in harm’s way.  That’s something no leukaemia sufferer ever does.  Leukaemia is the result of bad luck.  Liver or lung cancer are generally the result of really shitty judgment.

      Alcohol drinkers deliberately ingest a toxic substance with the intent of producing an artificial biochemical reaction in the brain.  Because it’s a toxic substance, the liver desperately tries to process it out of the body, which is part of the reason the liver damage done by even low alcohol use can cause permanent liver damage and/or predispose the drinker towards liver cancer.

      Oh, and on the inevitable argument that “it’s my body, I’ll do what I like”: well, if you were a smoker and you weren’t breathing in anyone else’s face, I’d say go enjoy it.  However, alcohol, by extension, harms a great deal of people who didn’t drink anything at all.  The wife who gets a thumping when the husband comes home from the pub; the kids who aren’t fed because the mother drinks herself into oblivion; the pregnant mother who gives her child foetal alcohol syndrome from only a glass or so a week during pregnancy.  Of course, none of the drinkers in these examples call themselves alcoholics.  And in many cases they’re right - but the damage still happens.

    • Sahara says:

      10:39am | 08/11/12

      Beer drinkers are easy.

      Try and tell someone that’s into free range or organic produce that they are paying three times the price for something that tastes no different or has any health benefits.

      Now that’s a challenge.

    • PsychoHyena says:

      11:03am | 08/11/12

      @Sahara, you do realise that’s not the point behind buying free-range or organic (by organic I mean properly organic, absolutely no pesticides, etc used) right?

      With free-range eggs it is to try and force the industry away from battery hens and organic (using my above definition) is to encourage the industry to find better ways of pest-control.

      Personally I buy whatever’s cheapest (2kg of potatoes for 59c and 1kg green beans for 19c last night), but this is mostly because I’m supporting three adults and three children (two almost teenagers).

    • Nick says:

      11:04am | 08/11/12

      Most people I know buy free range or organic food as a commitment to a way of production rather than for personal health benefits.

      I agree that the taste of mass produced organic and free range food is much the same as any other.

    • pipeline says:

      11:06am | 08/11/12

      but! but! That red wax on the ‘nana makes all the difference! And the fair trade coffee…I can taste the lifelong gratitude of whole tribes of endearing brown people in every cup, can’t you?.

    • Loddlaen says:

      11:11am | 08/11/12

      Or try telling them that the microwave veges are better than the store bought because they are snap frozen and don’t sit on a shelf for months leeching nutrients raspberry

    • PTRAIN says:

      11:22am | 08/11/12

      I’m not an free range or organic nimby freak, but I do like growing veggies and fruit in my back yard.

      I wouldn’t have a clue about the nutritional value of freshly, ripe picked fruit and veggies versus what is at the supermarket, however I know the taste difference is substantial.

      Tomato’s or strawberries are amazingly different when comparing home grown to supermarket.

    • Nick says:

      11:52am | 08/11/12

      Being scornful of people who care enough about animals, the environment, or vulnerable communities, to try to use their purchasing power to improve things is a perfect example of cognitive dissonance.

    • Sahara says:

      01:36pm | 08/11/12

      @ PsychoHyena

      There is no evidence that the pesticides we have been using for over 50 years are harmful to our health at the levels we ingest. You would be surprised at what they use to control pests in organic production.

      You might want to remember that the largest food scares involving multiple deaths were caused by lettuce and asparagus both organically grown.

      Free range chickens have a shorter lifespan and are in poorer health then battery hens

    • PsychoHyena says:

      02:25pm | 08/11/12

      @Sahara, the issue is not what effect pesticides have on humans, but rather the effect they have on pests, especially when there is a history of pests developing a resistance to those pesticides.

    • HC says:

      03:31pm | 08/11/12


      Really?  You’re defending the health of battery hens over the health of free-range hens?  Care to provide a source to that outrageously false claim?

    • Sahara says:

      04:55pm | 08/11/12

      @ HC

      Pleased to as it’s no secret and there are plenty

      Here just one


      Many people are surprised to find that free range chicken farming is very different to keeping a few chooks in the backyard.

      Many free range chickens never venture outside the very crowded barn in all their lifetie

    • Nick says:

      05:41pm | 08/11/12

      Sahara, if that’s the best you can do then your commitment to the truth is questionable at best.  That work has been severely criticised and even the original authors included huge caveats.  I agree Organic (tm) methods are far from ideal but using garbage to bolster your position is pretty sad don’t you think?

    • Sea Dog says:

      10:57am | 08/11/12

      I thought that most people drink VB (or Han or Carlton or Boags or any cheaper beer really) BECAUSE it tastes similar to other beers.  While I do like to mix it up a bit with the odd imported or micro-brewery line why would I drink these all the time when I can get a quality product at half the price?

    • JT says:

      11:09am | 08/11/12

      VB would be easy to pick in a blind taste test, it’s the one that tastes like cats piss.

    • Bill says:

      11:49am | 08/11/12

      And you know this, how…?

    • JT says:

      12:26pm | 08/11/12

      I have a cat :p

    • TheRealDave says:

      02:51pm | 08/11/12

      I disagree. VB is more of your Mongolian Yaks piss. Most of your American beers ar eof the Cats Piss variety and with Euro-swill, well, my own urine tastes stronger.

      And yes, to the question that popped into your head reading that. Thats just how I roll….

    • Chris L says:

      11:30am | 08/11/12

      Cognitive dissonance is a difficult thing to detect in one’s own arguments. It doesn’t help when the people accusing you of bias are suffering from their own acute case of cognitive dissonance.

    • Zeta says:

      11:34am | 08/11/12

      You’ve got the definition of cognitive dissonance completely mangled.

      Cognitive dissonance occurs when you hold two or more ideas in your head at once in equilibrium. An environmentalist who works for a polluter does not have cognitive dissonance if they don’t feel good about it, they have cognitive dissonance is they rationalise it in an incongruous way.

      An example of actual cognitive dissonance would be Mitt Romney, who wanted to slash the US deficit while advocating tax cuts for the rich that would increase the deficit.

      Your actions have nothing to do with it. The author just describes being a hypocrite more than being cognitively dissonant. To use another US political example - a gay Republican who thinks they’re changing the party’s culture from the inside has cognitive dissonance. A Republican who has sex with rent boys in hotel rooms is just a hypocrite.

      No one consciously or sub-consciously avoids cognitive dissonance, in fact by definition, you are not aware of it, and if you are, you are not cognitively dissonant.

      I’m not sold on the concept that you can’t taste the difference between beer, but say you couldn’t, that’s not cognitive dissonance either. If you think VB tastes like X, but it tastes like Y, and you rationalise the difference away - that would be cognitive dissonance. But beer tastes like beer. Beer tastes different depending on how many cigarettes you smoke while drinking it, or how long ago you brushed your teeth. That’s a really awkward example to try and shoe horn into your hypothesis.

    • fml says:

      12:03pm | 08/11/12

      You know what gives me the horn? Shoes, and beer.

    • Esteban says:

      12:47pm | 08/11/12

      I am not convinced by some of your examples Zeta.

      For instance what if a gay person was a fierce economic conservative. Their priority is economuc management. Gay reform is an issue but not a priority. On many occasions if a politition tells the truth about how they feel they will lose votes.

      So this particular gay economic conmservative might say they are trying to change the culture of the party because there is votes in it. It is a political ploy that is difficilt to disprove.

      Secondly, one can make the case that you can cut taxes to business and raise more revenue or have less need for revenue by scaling back the size of Government.

      Less tax from business means more to invest within the business means more employment which results in less need for government expenditure.

      The theory may well be open to dispute but if you believed in it it could explain the Romney position not being cognitive dissonance.

    • Trevor says:

      01:26pm | 08/11/12

      How about a conservative/libertarian who believes in personal freedoms and small government yet actively campaigns in favour of the war on drugs and prohibition?

    • Dr FOD says:

      05:03pm | 08/11/12

      Using big words on a blog about beer should result in a insta-life ban from posting in order to prevent my poor wee mind from imploding. I can’t even say dognitive cissonance let alone give a rats arse what it means!

    • Scientifically proven says:

      11:35am | 08/11/12

      I know this is kinda off-topic from the point of the article, but I can tell the difference between VB and Tooheys. How, you ask? Are my tastebuds that refined? Is my delicate sense of smell so intuitive that I can smell the difference?

      No. But if I drink a VB a lunchtime I will have a headache all afternoon. If I drink a Tooheys at lunchtime, I won’t.

    • L.Armstrong says:

      11:38am | 08/11/12

      Now that you mention Lance Armstrong.
      Never tested positive for drugs
      What about the rule of law?

    • Philip says:

      11:41am | 08/11/12

      Will the Macquarie dictionary, after changing the definition of misogyny, now look at changing the definition of pragmatism to include Cognitive dissonance?

    • Chris L says:

      02:45pm | 08/11/12

      While they’re at it they can update the definitions of Never and Ever.

    • Sensible says:

      11:46am | 08/11/12

      Clearly, non beer-drinkers have deadened taste buds.  I would match whatever you could come up with to prove that I can easily taste the difference between beers.  You provide the crackers!

    • fml says:

      11:46am | 08/11/12

      Are you Eric Cantona in disguise?

    • Bill says:

      11:50am | 08/11/12

      Indeed @Morrgo and @Sam Scout.
      Is the author of this article ‘avin a laugh or is he really only showing his ignorance and i’m-in-advertising-I-know-everything arrogance by claiming you can’t taste the difference between VB and Tooheys?
      VB, Melbourne Bitter or Carlton Draught? Not much difference between those, very hard to pick. But any true beer appreciator - such as myself, and clearly Morrgo and Sam Scout - worth his salt can pick a VB from a Tooheys, and most other beers from a mile away.

    • Esteban says:

      11:50am | 08/11/12

      The problem with using beer to demonstrate cognitive dissonance (CD) is it becomes about the beer and not the CD.

      This article about CD is an eye opener and I hope the thread moves away from beer to a political flavour.

      Let’s take Wayne Swann.

      Wayne Swann has a massive chip on his shoulder and hates business. Yet the CD that is driving him crazy is that he knows that business is the engine and the rest is carriages. Wayne Swann has never been the engine he has only ever been a carriage pulled along by others.

      To try and deal with his CD he attacks success in business (wealthy people) and portrays them as greedy rather than wealth and tax generators.

      He overstates the importance of government and under plays the role of business.

    • HC says:

      12:56pm | 08/11/12

      Why does every thread have to move towards politics?  Is this just some lame attempt to make every thread more stupid by adding politics to it?  There are more important things in life.  Like beer (not VB though!).

      Oh and cognitive dissonance is believing one political party is somehow better than another.  It’s like comparing two idiots and trying to prove which one is dumber when the reality is you’re still supporting and encouraging an idiot.

    • Bruno says:

      11:54am | 08/11/12

      Have you ever tried to tell someone who loves their VB that there is little taste difference between their beer and others? - no but I am sure it as a lovely conversation to have with your queen friends in surry hills.

    • Airlock Alan says:

      02:58pm | 08/11/12

      @Bruno, please see my comment further below.

    • 'Gong Boy says:

      11:59am | 08/11/12

      Whether or not Armstrong is guilty of taking drugs, you still have to take your hat off to the guy to overcome what he has physically and no doubt psychologically…and to sustain the years of training for the amount of hours he has (in all wheather conditions). He may not have won as many first placees and it’s not a good example to set kids - but he’s still achieved more by enduring more than most people could ever dream of. I’m sick of hearing people put him down when the majority would probably not have the will power to keep a routine of walking to a coffee shop if the weather turned nasty. He’s been stripped of his medals so why not concentrate on the good he’s done and continuing to do for charity etc?

    • Godwin says:

      01:33pm | 08/11/12

      Hear hear.

      In a similar vain I’m sick to death of people criticising Hitler. Sure, he killed a few million innocents, but think of all the people he has helped transport around the globe with his ‘people’s car’, the VW Beetle. Most popular car in history.

      He paid the price for his misdeeds by losing the war and his life, it’s about time we gave the poor bloke a break.

      Good point.

    • SAm says:

      12:09pm | 08/11/12

      Very, very easy to distinguish VB from Tooheys, any brew you like.
      Author is obviously some sort of new age beer snob who probably shifted to fancy beers last week after a decade on alcopops

    • lostinperth says:

      12:48pm | 08/11/12

      +1 - Easy to tell the difference.
      Different bitterness, colour and taste. Just because people may drink more then one beer doesn’t mean they can’t taste the difference.

    • fml says:

      01:17pm | 08/11/12

      Exactly, tooheys extra dry is extremely filtered (taste) when compared to VB.

    • Gregg says:

      12:29pm | 08/11/12

      ” We all need to justify our actions by changing our beliefs “
      That’s amazing and who would have thought that of Julia!
      Like she supports this creepy guy to be the speaker of parliament.
      And her belief is that it’s all Tony’s fault, he in fact is the misogynist.

      My Crown Lager I just had wasn’t half bad either too!

    • Rowdy says:

      01:49pm | 08/11/12

      Why do I suddenly feel like a beer?

      In fact, more than one….

    • George says:

      02:18pm | 08/11/12

      To get over all the cognitive dissonance in the world.

    • Jon Snow says:

      01:55pm | 08/11/12

      I guarantee you, I could tell the difference between VB, Carlton Draught and Melb Bitter. Line up the pots any day and you can consider it done.

      Just because you lack the ability doesn’t make it impossible.
      In fact I bet you that if I take some VB and put it in a nice looking bottle with trendy name and handsome label, you’ll say how much better it is than VB.

    • taz says:

      02:03pm | 08/11/12

      There is still no proof Lance actually cheated though. Everything is fabricated heresay. Has he admitted it ? Did i miss that grand announcement?

      He was hung drawn and quartered even without evidence.

    • fml says:

      02:22pm | 08/11/12

      Name one person throughout history that had only one testicle that was worth trusting?


    • Mel Belli says:

      02:55pm | 08/11/12

      @ taz

      Do we have to have the rules of evidence chat again?

      If someone says “I saw drugs in Lance Arnstromg’s fridge” that is not hearsay

      If someone says “Lance Armstrong encouraged me to take dope” - that is not hearsay.

      If someone says “Joe Blow told me he saw Lance Armstrong take dope” - that IS hearsay.

      Don’t take my word for it, do some research.

    • Airlock Alan says:

      02:09pm | 08/11/12

      Do you know that if you fill 3 glasses with different quality beers, say for instance, Chimay Blue, a Timothy Taylor Landlord, and a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and put them in front of a bogan, he’ll question your sexuality, then complain till you give him a VB/Tooheys/CD?

    • George says:

      02:16pm | 08/11/12

      Carlton Draught tried to knock VB off it’s perch and failed, it’s much the same as VB, only in my experience costs a bit more, so of course it would easy to trick someone over it, just like coke and pepsi.

      Whoopee do dah, the whole world has cognitive dissonance, like lefties wanting a bazillion immigrants, as long is they have their “villages” remain intact and their useless arts type jobs well paid.

    • AFR says:

      03:50pm | 08/11/12

      Considering they are owned by the same company, I highly doubt CD sought to knock VB off its perch.

    • Lie Lover? says:

      02:45pm | 08/11/12

      Adam “He is a moral man who has helped save and inspire millions.” You can’t seriously believe that this is true. The man is a psychopath, pure and simple. He didn’t just take drugs, he bullied and abused team mates who didn’t and anyone from trying to stop him. I’m afraid you’ve been suckered. His work with cancer is simply a diversion to keep the suckers from seeing what he really is. Not only that but it’s a perfect opportunity for his foundation to pay for him to fly around the world at no cost to him as he did in coming to Australia for the Tour Down Under.

    • TheRealDave says:

      02:57pm | 08/11/12

      Can’t tell the difference between mainstream Australian Beers??

      But I bet you know what wine to dish up with sauteed quails bollocks on roasted chestnuts with a kaffir lime sauce…..

    • Matthais says:

      03:06pm | 08/11/12

      I find it interesting that this has been filed under “lying, marketing” - quite apt.

      Obvious and pathetic attempts at CUB (that is Carlton United Breweries, not Cashed Up Bogans) product placement aside, the beer analogy is as flawed as it would have been had the author replaced it with one listing wines.

      VB has never been anything more than something for bogans to slam down furiously after a long, hard, hot day labouring.

      It has never tried to be anything more, nor has it been marketed as anything else.

      To suggest that your average, beer garden variety VB drinker would even consider consenting to a taste test for any other reason than free beer is completely fallacious.

      VB, Tooheys and their ilk work well here because it is a bloody hot country. It is difficult to drink my tipple of choice (and, for mine, the best beer in the world - Coopers Sparkling) in 40 degree heat after slaving away on the back of a removalist’s truck.

      VB works perfectly for that “bugger me, I have lost half my bodyweight in sweat today and need a cleanser”; though it is also a beer that you drink for the specific purpose of getting drunk.

      Same goes for New, Carlton Draught, Super Dry, XXXX and all their tasteless ilk.

      It is laughable to suggest that either Carlton or Lion Nathan make any form of beer that is indulged for its taste.

      As I sit here, drinking a half New, half Coopers Stout, I chuckle at the thought of the author looking down his nose (and indeed the irony inherent in my comment) at the common Australian beer swiller and wonder how well he would do at a tasting organised by Squires or The Scotch Malt Whisky Society.

    • Airlock Alan says:

      03:29pm | 08/11/12

      Oh man, what a waste of Best Extra Stout!
      Must remember to stock my fridge tonight.

    • Beer, yes please. says:

      05:35pm | 08/11/12

      Sorry to tell you but Lion make/own James Squires. Top drop too.

    • AFR says:

      03:52pm | 08/11/12

      Adam, most hipsters like yourself that I know only drink Coopers.

    • Ryan N says:

      05:40pm | 08/11/12

      VB drinkers think they are drinking beer, but they’re not. They’re only slurping down years of tradition, Australian-isms, and hardcore branding. It’s for a bloke who wants to quench his hard-earned thirst, not drink a distinctive great flavoured brew.
      Keep it local I say, keep it Richmond.
      I drink. I Goat.


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