Why there is no International Man’s Day

bec says:

07:34am | 08/03/10

As a special help for newcomers to thepunch.com.au, my advice is that you should read Eric’s comments as though they were narrated by Will Arnett’s voice. Not because Eric is as talented, funny or intelligent as Mr Arnett (heck, few people are), but because it makes a lot of sense to read these words in Gob Bluth’s voice.

Eric says:

07:45am | 08/03/10

Feminist debating tactic #1: When you can’t attack the arguments, attack the person.

John A Neve says:

07:51am | 08/03/10

Eric,

I think Bec is having a go at you!!!  I wonder why?
A more open minded and unbiased person would be hard to find, don’t mind Bec, I think you are one of a kind Eric.

Alex says:

08:32am | 08/03/10

In my own country:

Killings between partners/spouses accounted for 60 per cent of all family homicides in Australia, with women accounting for 75 per cent of the victims, and men comprising the majority of the killers

Men who hold a bachelor degree or higher can expect to earn about $3.3 million - nearly double the $1.8 million for similarly educated women.

Women are still doing most of the housework. In 2006, full-time working mothers spent 15 hours a week cooking and cleaning compared with six hours for men.

Four years after a marriage break-up, divorced men are significantly better off than divorced women — and better off than before the separation.

Women were more likely than men to have experienced symptoms of a mental disorder during the previous twelve-months

I could go on ...

julia says:

09:15am | 08/03/10

Sometimes I just want to hug you, Eric. We’re not all horrible.

But some women know how to use the system to gouge men for everything they’ve got. Why they do this, I don’t know.

But today is about the other women in society - ours and others’. Those who need a break, who live in poverty and who have govenrments which oppress them.

All of us says:

09:22am | 08/03/10

Alex

Yes, violence is a problem in this country. The root causes of it should be addressed.

The difference in financial outcomes from tertiary study - could it be that women don’t do the same jobs as men for the same hours as men producing the same results as men?

Women do more housework not because they have to but because they see the need. I couldn’t give a rat’s proverbial if there was a speck of dirt or two behind the couch….....

Divorced men are better off because they work for it.

I could go on

Liz says:

09:27am | 08/03/10

Womem have a special day because they got on and organised it themselves, still do.Stop the whingeing and get on with it if you want a Men’s Day!!

Chase Stevens says:

09:40am | 08/03/10

Do you do anything but complain about how unfair it is to be a man Eric?
You sound like an angsty teenager.

Ausfire says:

10:19am | 08/03/10

Men do have an international Men’s day - 19th November (during Movember in Australia), even with strong opposition from diehard feminists and their supporters.

Alex (and Richard Fleming), you need to do wider research (with an open mind) rather than listening to and believing feminist drivel.  If you refer to the BOSCAR report for your information on domestic violence, you are using biased figures, with the bias starting with the police.

As for your comments on divorced men are better than divorced women, please tell me how this is even remotely possible considering the unequal asset splits in family court, along with the working father paying up to 48% of their gross pay in child support?

A fact you may not be aware of and is readily available from the WA (Australia) government (the only Australian government that disects the information gathered to this extent) , is that mothers are two times as responsible for infanticide than fathers. Also, mothers are (from memory - maybe slightly incorrect) around 5 times more likely to be the abuser in child abuse cases. As such, if you look at the amount of violence against “children and fathers”, the level is far greater than against mothers. By including the child in DV figures against women, you are linking the perpetrator of the abuse with the victim, making both victims - a VERY OLD feminist trick in research manipulation.

Quite frankly, I am sick of listening to the bleating of sheep - Do your own open-minded research, questioning cause and causality, and bias that maybe introduced (in various forms), along with who is doing the research and their background.

Vicki PS says:

12:49pm | 08/03/10

Eric, I’ll say to you what virtually every mother says to her kids when they ask why there is Mother’s Day and Father’s Day but no Children’s Day:

Eric, pet, every day is Men’s Day.

P.S.  “Men make up the majority of the homeless and the imprisoned”—mm, useless buggers, aren’t they?
“Men pay most of the taxes, but women get most of the benefits”—evidence, please, or is this just another ‘Eric fact’?
“Women have better educational outcomes than men, yet there are special scholarships for women only”—Never heard of the scholarship established by that famous misogynist Cecil Rhodes?
“Family law and law in general favours women”—Actually, I rather think they favour children.

Eric, you will win no sympathy whining about ad hominem attacks when you persist in your attempts to disguise your hostility, fear and contempt of women as “factual” arguments, which consist mainly of assertions of your prejudices and delusions.

Ben H says:

03:41pm | 08/03/10

Well said, Eric, especially: ‘Feminist debating tactic #1: When you can’t attack the arguments, attack the person.’ This is the number one sign that they don’t have a leg to stand on.

Kitty says:

04:09am | 09/03/10

Actually Eric - there IS an international Men’s Day :www.internationalmensday.com

Second - these reasons that you cite are pretty trivial when compared with the fact that in some countries female rape victims are shamed, beaten and murdered as punishment for bringing ‘shame’ to their families and communities. Female genital mutilation is still common in parts of Africa and the middle-east and in many countries women are still banned from education and employment.

I find your attitude of not caring about these appalling conditions because of a minority of cases where women have advantage over men to be appallingly selfish and callous.

Do not be threatened by the fact that women want to be treated humanely. It will not diminish you to acknowledge your position of privilege and to act accordingly.

samantha castro says:

10:44am | 09/03/10

Eric really good points you make and I presume you are talking about first world developed western nations? 

I agree with everything you have said but would like to add there are very significant reasons you left out of your response to the above article and never forget that women have worked hard and long in social justice areas to improve health outcomes, hence the longer life.

Men commit the majority of crimes (especially the big ones EG murder rape etc) hence the prison stats. 
I Can’t comment on the homeless stats don’t know a lot about that one.

Men may pay more tax but you neglect to include that in almost every field women are paid up to 30% less than their male counterparts who do exactly the same job. 
These are common stats (do some research if you don’t believe me) in western developed nations, further men continue to hold the upper management jobs and despite the PC claims, many CEO’s have admitted in studies done in England, the USA and Australia that they are reluctant to put women in powerful positions because they MAY put their family before the business.

Despite the rhetoric there are still thick cold glass ceilings, doors, walls and cliffs at play in our supposedly equal opportunity (unequal pay) democratic developed countries
Eric on the point of education:
Women again have fought long and hard through the first and second wave feminist movements and social justice to be allowed in to higher education and ensure the bias is corrected through scholarships.

Family law now values the input of both parents but the sad fact is that women are often left to do the heavy lifting in the domestic realm and often do it with little emotional or financial support from the absent fathers of their children…

In short Eric if men have shorter lives it is because they have not come together like women to ensure these issues are addressed.

If men are the main inmates in prison (although I would state that for indigenous men this is grossly over represented) it is because they are the ones creating violence in society.

If men pay more tax it is because they continue to willingly except that they are entitled to more money for doing the same job as the woman next to them based purely on their gender or old boys network.

If women have better educational outcomes it is because they know they have to work twice as hard as their male friends if they want to get ahead and they have acted in support and solidarity of the rights of women to be educated.

I believe your most accurate comment may have been that the family law system did many years ago privilege the mother (regardless often of the father’s wishes), however that has changed and still many fathers CHOOSE to be absent and financially belligerent when it comes to the children they bring onto this planet. Further there is no denying that a child needs both parents love and support and there are many men who recognise and work hard to give this to their children

Eric you need to pull your head out of the sand, reconnect your heart and understand the world is not all about men. 

If you are unhappy with men’s health or social justice issues towards men in your world. Perhaps you could use that 30% extra income that you make over the woman sitting next to you and start a group (much like the amazing feminist women over the last 200 years) and work towards improving these systems rather than leaving it to the women to volunteer at the local homeless shelter to feed those men that have been broken by this patriarchal and institutionalised system.

The best men on the planet see what has taken place and the changes that need to come and they know it can’t be done alone but must include their sisters on the planet.  We need to stop changing the men in charge of the system and actually change the system!
I hope Eric you will see that too because this is an issue for developed and developing nations. 
Eric is life so bad as a white middle class man?

Jess says:

02:34pm | 09/03/10

Women live seven years longer than men- This is just a generalization and as the following paragraph taken from the Times shows it isn’t like we have any control over this, it is just the way we are born.
“One reason for that delay in onset of cardiovascular disease could be that women are relatively iron-deficient compared to men — especially younger women, those in their late teens and early 20s — because of menstruation. Iron plays a very important part in the reactions in our cells that produce damaging free radicals, which glom onto cell membranes and DNA, and may translate into aging the cell. In fact, in our diets, red meat is the main source of iron, and lack of iron is probably one major reason that being vegetarian is healthy for you. There was a very good study looking at the intake of red meat and heart disease in Leiden in the Netherlands: in regions where people didn’t eat red meat, those populations had half the rate of heart attack and stroke compared to the populations that did eat red meat”
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1827162,00.html#ixzz0he2zei8n
Men make up the majority of the homeless and the imprisoned
In Australia in 2002-2003 42% of homeless people were male and 58% were female. As for the fact that there are more men in prison then women I don’t know the statistics on that but as a question to you; When you think about what these men have done to be placed in prison who do you think the crimes were committed against?
The statistics indicate that in the next hour, somewhere in the United States, the following will happen to women:
# 900 Thefts
# 189 Violent Crimes
# 124 Assaults
# 66 Robberies
# 24 Sexual Assaults
# 12 Rapes
# 2 Murders
Scary isn’t it?

Men pay most of the taxes, but women get most of the benefits.
Considering that the tax system is actually based on how much a person earns in that pay period I’m pretty sure that has nothing to do with the man vs woman debate and considering that men are still being paid more money then a woman doing the same job I think that would be why men are in higher tax brackets then women. There aren’t actually that many benefits for women in the work force. The only thing we get that men don’t is maternity leave and if you choose not to have a child then you are getting the same as any man.

Women have better educational outcomes than men, yet there are special scholarships for women only.
If you cared to even google it you would see that there are also scholarships for men as well. I am also inclined to believe that women having better educational outcome doesn’t have so much to do with our gender and more to do with each individual person. Personally I quit high school in year 11 because I decided that I didn’t like schooling. I have not completed any further training in any area yet am currently working as a personal assistant to the director of a company.

And finally as others have stated Family Law and law in general tend to favor the child/person who is innocent do they not?

Sorry sweety.

Eric says:

05:15pm | 09/03/10

The misandry and callousness in comments from feminists are telling.

Feminists ignore, trivialise or otherwise make light of the very real discrimination issues faced by men.

Consequently, they can hardly expect men to take feminist issues seriously.

What goes around, comes around.

Jess says:

07:29pm | 09/03/10

Each gender has its own issues but that isn’t what you have pointed out here. My comment has just proven to you that the 5 points you have listed above don’t actually have any statistical evidence to back them up. I have not trivialised any of the points that you have made just provided you with the information nor do I trivialise any issues that anyone, black or white, male or female,  suffers from.

I fail to see where in you comment you have mentioned any of these ‘very real discrimination issues faced by men’ as if you had done the research that I (and many others) provided you with then you would have been able to list the more serious issues that men face rather than the ‘trivial’ 5 that you have.

Nathan says:

05:04pm | 10/03/10

You’re right Eric. Women have been favoured over men in both law and convention in workplaces across Australia for my entire working life. We need to rise up and smash the glass ceiling of misandrist hatred toward our fair sex. We must address all inequity though a number of programs:

1) Tax cuts for men to achieve taxation parity.
2) Immediate programs to fast-tracking men into public housing.
3) Men-only tertiary scholarships, and assistance programs in schools with more male teachers.
4) Family law reform to achieve custodial parity.

Don’t let members of “the old girls club” of man haters like bec keep you down. You go Man!

Sabretruthtiger says:

11:31pm | 26/03/10

Well done Eric, in todays anti-male, anti-truth society it takes guts to speak out against these politically correct propagandists.

Education time for these pseudo-liberal misandrists. The reason there is so much hatred towards men is because men pose the biggest threat to the new world order (the global banking elite that control Western Governments and are moving toward complete global domination) Men are physically more dangerous, more likely to challenge authority (Men view totalitarian Government as an alpha male threat, women view it as a protector). Men also have higher IQs.
The Govt-controlled media has been engaging in an anti male campaign, portraying men as incompetent, lying, dumb, untrustworthy, sports-obsessed buffoons to subjugate men and give more power to women, to make society more controllable and easier to manipulate.

People that deny this fact are the same morons who believe that 911 was planned by Arabs when science proves controlled demolition, or that significant man-made global warming is real when there is zero evidence for it and much against it, or that the credit crisis was unplanned.

You are correct Eric, these people haven’t the brain power to make logical inferences from obvious premises, their tactic is ad hominem.

Sabretruthtiger says:

11:51pm | 26/03/10

Jess, number 1, being a vegetarian is not good for you, the study you mention is speculative at most and vegetarians tend to have many health problems related to bone density, muscle fatigue, anaemia and others.

number 2 your figures on the homeless are plain lies. Men make up over 80% of homeless. How any women do you see sleeping on the street and how many men?

number 3 women achieve better educational outcomes because boys develop much later. Men have higher IQs, countless studies bear this out. There is a good evolutionary imperative at work, men’s IQs span the spectrum while women’s are more grouped around the average because women need minimal competency to raise children and the bigger the differences in a group of men, the easier it is for women to select the most intelligent mates, ensuring the brightest breed. Also the best of such a group of spectrum spanning males will be much more intelligent than the best of a group of average males, thus accelerating humankind’s intellectual evolution more rapidly.

number 4 While the few jobs at the pinnacle of the hierarchy are occupied mostly by men, the vast majority of mid-high administrative, supervisory and secretarial jobs are taken by women. Many more men are unemployed because women get jobs ahead of men because of their social advantage, (less threatening, relate well to people and look nice in a short skirt.)

number 5 The law does not favour the innocent, as someone who works in the area you surely realise the law protects those in power and convicts people based on political expedience, many is the innocent person convicted with little to no evidence because it was a high profile case and politically sensitive.

Lastly, read my previous post for an explanation on why men are targeted by the new world order and the media/Law cronies that serve them. You’re very transparent.

Sorry Sweety

Liz says:

09:29am | 08/03/10

Don’t be ridiculous, get on and organise yourselves as women have if you want better services and a day to celebrate your achievements!

Jane says:

10:27am | 08/03/10

Umm so all those ads I see on TV talking about prostrate cancer and telling males to get check ups are a figment of my imagination?

Rowdy says:

10:39am | 08/03/10

Thanks Jane….but my prostrate gland is working fine….I can lay down flat and straight on the ground without any discomfort at all…..

Ausfire says:

11:52am | 08/03/10

Jane they aren’t figures of you imagintion, but would have been around 3 years ago - that recent. I have requested and received information on government funding spent on the areas of breast and cervical cancer compared to men and prostrate cancer. The amounts equate to approximately 100:1 in ration with women the clear winners in funding. Surprisingly, the death rates are around equal for men and women’s cancers. To me, this shows the government has placed greater weight on women’s helth than men’s health and still does. Think about this if you ever have a son, partner or close male friend diagnosed with prostrate cancer. BTW, just had my check up so i’m fine, and my father is still recovering from chemotherapy from his prostrate cancer.

TwistedEar says:

12:38pm | 08/03/10

Actually, having talked with a delightful chap who won a small award for science a few years back gave me pause to consider. His statement has been quoted before, but it, alas, has been lost in the press.

He stated that men’s health treatment and research was so underfunded and behind the times, it was like going into hospital for heart surgery - women would get the modern procedures while men would be stuck with open-heart surgery akin to the 1950’s era procedures.

Oh, and @Liz - Men aren’t allowed to organise those things - Movember was purely because beyond blue and other anti-depression help services needed more funding to get people off their lines and into a healthy, happy life. Men get Movember, which is a one day event after a month of preparation for ALL men’s health issues. Women get, Women’s Day, there is anotehr couple of days for breast and cervical cancer, possibly ovarian too.

Rowdy says:

11:07am | 09/03/10

Guys….IT’S PROSTATE GLAND….NOT PROSTRATE!!!

They are two entirely different things!!!!

Maybe that’s why the men’s funding is disproportionate….men are getting funded to lie prostrate…..

Krahn says:

04:43pm | 10/03/10

Oh FFS.
I love this “in my house like many homes around Australia it’s man’s day everyday” BS.

So, he works very hard and is a loving and gentle man? In having these admirable qualities in a husband, you don’t feel like it’s Woman’s Day everyday?

Internationally very many people aren’t as lucky as us! I hate these gender/race/religion specific arguments stating why one group deserves this and another deserves that. We should all feel like we’re in this together, regardless of gender, and all this pandering to the female side has to stop.

Sorry to rant a bit, and I do understand that your appreciation of your husband is genuine, just as I’m sure his is for you.

bec says:

09:02am | 08/03/10

Yes, I can see how my comment that states that boys are likely to grow up with better life outcomes if their mothers are well-fed and healthy is shaming and manhating. Heavens to betsy, you have educated me right-proper this morning!

E says:

09:06am | 08/03/10

International ‘Dont be an asshat’ day would be a good move generally. I am also a fan of ‘International talk like a Pirate day’, although I always miss it, should be better publicised.

International End Poverty Day would be a better move, more inclusive. What the writer of this article misses is that people generally have a pretty bad time of it in the developing world, not just women, and maybe we in the west could help them live better lives.

And Bec, while Eric might be a little single issue, he has a right to his opinion and you to yours, so stop with the insults and try to be constructive.

E says:

09:06am | 08/03/10

Bec, do you think its misogyny at work or just not enough food in general? Do you really think that if food, medical care and education were plentiful in these countries that men would be systematically denying their sisters and daughters?
I think you have mistaken the correlation between gender and poor outcomes for causation.

Eric says:

09:10am | 08/03/10

Busted, bec. Your 07.34 reply to my comment was a perfect example of shaming and man-hating. Moreover, it’s an example of the dozens of trite, snarky personal attacks you have been posting as replies to my comments for weeks.

You don’t address the issues in debate - you just smear and sneer. Normally I’d ignore it, but I think it’s useful to point out feminist tactics from time to time.

All of us says:

09:31am | 08/03/10

Yes bec, and while we’re all edjoomacating each other I will go and find out who these Will Arnett and heavenly betsy people are.

But I have to get back to work. Good heavens, I haven’t even checked how my stocks will be faring today and I must get some work done. Just as well I saw that the Dow was up on Friday so that should keep things bubbling along merrily in the morning

Macca says:

10:02am | 08/03/10

@Penbo, surely you saw this coming?

Keep going Bec and Eric, haven’t enjoyed my morning coffee this much in weeks!

bec says:

11:41am | 08/03/10

I don’t hate you Eric. I don’t know you. I can mock you, however, and until taking the piss is listed as torture under the Geneva Convention I will continue to do it. You are funny, easily riled, myopic, and sometimes I picture you speaking with a little monocle and waistcoat because it is entertaining.

What I do know is that if I said what you did with the genders switched, I’d be called a man-hater. I’d call myself that myself. If you’d like to email me and talk to me about the work I do to benefit - and not hate or disadvantage - men and boys, I am happy for thepunch.com.au mods to provide you with my email address.

kell says:

12:15pm | 09/03/10

Game, set and match - Bec. Well done I truly doubt you’ll get an email from Eric though sadly.
Meanwhile, fantastic article…However it’s worth noting the violence against women still on the rise in Australia sadly too.

Jojo says:

12:24pm | 09/03/10

@ E,
Yes, you do have a point.

But what about in countries like India, China, parts of Africa (as I am aware it is NOT a country! lol) and parts of the Mid-East?

Where if a parent has food, they will give it to their son? If a son and a daughter is sick, they will put the son in the clinic and let the daughter suffer? That if the children are at school, they will pull the daughter out to do hard labour not the son, despite men being stronger?
That if the woman has many kids and they have a daughter, they will kill her, but give birth to a son despite being poor, because having a son is considered a status symbol?

Did you know that despite men being stronger and more physically fit than women, a larger majority of women >70% of the back breaking, physically labour is done by women?

Why is that?

Its not because of poverty.
Its because in these cultures women are secondary to men. Women are men’s chattel. Women are an extension, a liability which has to ‘work’ its debts off for being born women.
You only have to visit or even know a person who comes from such a family or country/culture.
I suppose you don’t.

Simple example, did you know that in most Asian families, even rich ones, traditionally a son would get all inheritance and daughters get nothing?
Did you know that in my own family who is considered ‘liberal’ my sister and I will get only to divide between ourself of what our brother will get (half) because we are women? If there are only two siblings - boy and girl - the boy will get 75% and the girl 25%.
My friend gave birth to a girl, not a boy, and her mother-in-law told her to ‘give’ the girl away for adoption and let the girl call her as ‘aunty’ and not ‘Mum’ because ‘it’ is bad luck to have a girl as a first-born?
For your info they live in a $3 million dollar house and both parents work.  The woman could not work and still be able to afford a lavish lifestyle on the husband’s salary.
Another friend of mine comes from a well-to-do (not rich) and her 3 brothers will get all the inheritance and she will get nothing. Not even a house. Or jewellry (common for women to get mother’s jewellry)
A middle-eastern friend of mine told me that he gets to choose his own wife, go overseas to study (that was how I met him!) and have girlfriends, drink alcohol, “wear jeans” (his words) but his family were “nice” enough to allow his sister to choose “any” wedding gift she wanted on her wedding to a man she has never met in her life, chosen by her father, “because she is not allowed to do the things I can do” (meaning doing the things her brother does)?
She was smart enough to say she wanted to be ‘covered in gold’ so that she could have some money for safe keeping in case of divorce, desertation or anything terrible as she will get nothing in inheritance.
She has to wear a top to toe face covering and cannot step out of the house without her husband or brother? Even at 20 her younger brother aged 14 is considered suitable to be her ‘guardian’ outside the house despite being just a kid?

Did you know that women have little or no say, in many Asian cultures, at their men’s infidelities simply because he is a man and superior to her?

Is this fair?
You attribute it to poverty but you are completely ignorant and refuse to believe that women are treated worse than dog shit in Asia, Africa and the Middle-East because they are women, not because they are ‘poor’.

Poverty just brings out even worse attributes in their culture because they will be even more discriminating on the women which they already seen as doing a favour for allowing them life and giving them food.

In so-called developed countries these things happen but on a different scale.
How women are expected to ‘work’ when married to a man to contribute to the household but when the man comes home he wants dinner on the table, a clean house and sex on demand. Does it ever occur to a man that his wife/girlfriend work the same hours as him and is just as tired?
When they have children she is expected to do most of the child-minding while working, cooking, cleaning and doing her duties if she is a wife.
Yet when she is a housewife he expects to be lord of the household.

Women are scorned for wanting to save themselves for their husbands or having 1 partner only and not giving themselves away sexually to any man who will pay for their drink like some prostitute or giving themselves away freely like some free flyer.
Women are expected to have “few partners” but not more than ‘X’ or she’s a slut or not less than “Y” or she’s some frigid bible-thumping b*tch and yet still be Blondie Asstronaut the porn star in bed.
Where do you expect she get all that experience unless she’s banging 10 guys a week?

Point is, women will always look out for their children and family. Men on the other hand, can practice some extremely eye-boggling apathy towards their peers, let alone their flesh and blood.

Paul Horn says:

10:57am | 11/03/10

Jojo total tripe. Ever been to Asia? Who are the builders toiling away dong backbreaking work on the scaffolding in any major city? I’ll give you a guess - men!!!  Who is it driving rickshaws or digging trenches,  laying concrete, erecting steel, operating cranes, driving taxis, loading ships, breaking ships as in India, stacking bricks etc etc etc all stinking men!!!! I have never in all my years living and working in Asia ever ever ever seen a damned woman lift a finger in back breaking work!!!! Yes in the rural areas women do sow seed and help with the crop, fetch water etc as in Africa ! In Nepal thousands and thousands of workers were employed building roads by breaking rock using nothing but basic hammers or other rocks. Who were they - MEN!!!! Not one over indulged pampered female!!! YOU are nothing but a LIAR!!!

Why do you think in many impoverished countries the son is favoured? Simply because he is far more useful in undertaking the back breaking chores required in keeping a subsistence farm operating!!! Females are a much much much greater burden on the family as they are not able to perfom anywhere near the physical burdens required of the men. In every culture it is the men who take on the dangerous tasks of hunting, defending and enforcing tribal customs. The greatest contribution women make is in the creation of the next generation.

And to counter your dirty fallacies that Asian / indian / Middle Eastern men enjoy a wide variety of choices of partner on tap I know two Iindian men being pressured to marry Indian ladies form the “right” families. I also klnow of chaps from other cultures who have had considerable pressure exerted by their families to marry suitable girls from their country of origin as they are disguted by the behaviour of modern white Western woman. It takes two to tango you know!

I would deraly love to klnow just how the damned UN comes up with such fallacious and deceitful statistics. Also only God knows what strange family you must come from. I know a dozen blokes who have taken over the farm and have had to pay their sisters a proportionale share of the farms value after they leave. They are still paying off the debt years later!!!! I suggest you have a good hard look at your own situaiton.

As for infidelity though there may be double standards you obviously have not been reading the news. Unfaithful men as well as women are routinely whipped in many Muslim countries though male punishment is rarely reported in the degenerate Western Press.

Chase Stevens says:

09:42am | 08/03/10

No. No we should not, we should condemn any and all discrimination that negatively affects innocent people. To think otherwise is ludicrous.

Ray says:

10:48am | 08/03/10

Chase, does that mean we are supposed to treat men equally in this country starting with boys education and the family court.  International Women’s Day is not the cop out for the poor and disdadvantaged as there are just as poor disadvantaged men in the third world. A Bit like Office for the Status of Women, really the Office for Women of Status. Oh and Bec what contribution did you make to organising International Women’s Day. The simple fact is our society has a love affair with women who unfortunately have been raised on a diet of expectation of privelege. Never has society seen a more priveleged group than women. Nor a group subject to such culpable demise as men. To muddy it with third world examples is trite at best..

Al says:

01:26pm | 08/03/10

Chase Stevens: To think that ANYONE does not discriminate on a daily basis is ludicrous.
Everyone discriminates every time they make a decision.
Humans ARE discriminating creatures, this is an evolution based trait that comes from discriminating between ones clan/tribe and ‘outsiders’.
Ones clan/tribe/family ALWAYS comes above the needs of ‘somone else’.
Also to force our position onto another group is simply arrogant. It is a bit like religions claiming they have the only way to redemption/happiness/heaven/whatever.
It is closed minded, alows no room for conflicting ideas and stifles development.
It may not be your way, but it is theirs.
If you choose not to fight for it yourself, you don’t deserve it.
Another MAJOR error that people make is the assumption that all people are born equal. This is simply not the case. A person with the right genetic makeup has a much greater chance at succedding as an olympic runner than someone who does not. As such they are NOT born equal. Equality of people is another delusion. If everyone was equal, there would be no diversity and we would all suffer (a grey world awaits).

Alex says:

01:45pm | 08/03/10

E, If it was an acceptable part of the culture for both men and women, then I agree, we have no place to interfere. But when there are women in Afghanistan that are choosing to burn themselves to death rather then suffer domestic torture and abuse then we need to step in and help. Look at the number of women forced into marriage and pregnancy who then develop fistula’s because their child’s body is not mature or developed enough to deliver a baby. These girls are then deemed unclean and shunned from their family and their community. If International womens day does anything to highlight these inequalities and stir some of us to make a difference then I think it’s worth having. The older I get the more realise I won the jackpot when i was born male and white in this world.

Roger says:

05:44am | 09/03/10

Yes E. That is a really terrific insight. So seeing that we’ve decided to celebrate their traditions and diversity while they discriminate against women, we should similarly celebrate some other cultural traditions and differing points of view.

I always wondered why people weren’t celebrating Hitler more, or for that matter why the world were not more tolerant and celebratory of South Africa in the Apartheid years? And what about that intolerant bigot William Wilberforce that ended the wonderful British tradition of slavery? Bring back slavery I say!

I really hope you were just trying to stir, E.

Helen says:

04:23pm | 09/03/10

People, “E” is trolling! Don’t feed him!

Jojo says:

05:42pm | 09/03/10

E, not so far back in the 1950s and before women in most western countries had no right to vote, inherit property, etc.
Can you attribute this to ‘culture’ as well?
What if women at the time and the people around the world who supported them went, oh, well, its the culture, its different what right do we have to have a say about it?

If people have such a defeatist attitude towards every issue I dread to think how our world can change for the better.
Your apathy is distressing.

No one is asking to go in and liberate aka America to Iraq.
But support, understanding and education for change is important by people from free countries towards the others who suffer oppression and discrimination.

Would you feel that it is right if your mother, sister and wife are treated by the culture as rubbish bins to tip rubbish into?
Would you shrug and say ‘its the culture’ if your sister or daughter marries into a family who’s culture dictates she be lesser than her husband, and is treated like second class scum yet worked like a dog?

(ie. your sister/daughter serves the men of the family first - her husband, her sons, her male guests if any and herself and her daughters will wait in the kitchen and once the men are finished, eat their leftovers on the same plate?) Yes, there are such cultures and it is not ‘rare’. On the contrary I have friends who belong in such a culture and has no choice but to practise such habits because the men of their family forces it upon them!

As a man living in a free country, do you not feel privileged and empowered to know that you can make a difference to so many people’s lives if you just cared 0.01% enough to at least spread the word, educate your friends and family and donate/volunteer to a worthy cause?

Ge Off says:

09:41am | 08/03/10

then poverty, abuse, fear, murder, mutilation, illiteracy

Because no man has ever suffered these? men are victims of more murders than women. More men are homeless and Genital Mutilation is glorified as “circumcision”. And how can helping women with everything help men? it doesnt because you ignore men’s needs believing all we need is healthy women.

Bon says:

12:13pm | 08/03/10

Circumcision was invented by men for men. It is, for the most part, performed by male doctors and there are many, quite vocal, male medical practitioners who believe that all boys should be circumcised.  Most baby boys these days are not cirumcised, but for those boys who are, it is their father in the vast majority of cases who requests it.  If it is performed for religious or cultural reasons, once again it is men who both request and perform it.  Circumcison is socially accepted and acceptable (“glorified” if you will) because MEN make it so.

Ausfire says:

12:33pm | 08/03/10

Female circumcision is culturally and socially accepted in some African countries, yet (feminists of)  western countries think it is an abhoration. Male circumcision is / was cultural (ritual) and religious and socially accepted in western cultures. Trying to justify based on your own limited cultural experience does NOT make male circumcision right and female circumcision wrong. Other cultures would see the opposite. Cultural tolerance is based on accepting cultural differences, not by outlawing cultural / religious practices based on gender and and it’s non-acceptance by a foreign culture / religion.

Bon says:

01:17pm | 08/03/10

Ausfire I wasn’t aware that I was trying to justify anything, and I can assure you my own cultural awareness is not limited.  I was making the point to Ge Off that if male cirumcision is “glorified” (his word) it is because men make it so, not because of sexism or feminism.

I didn’t mention female circumcision, or actually state my own views on either issue, so how you could glean from my post that I believe male circumcision to be right and the female version is wrong is a mystery to me.  In my own circumstances, I believe neither is acceptable.  My son is not circumcised because both my husband and I believe it to be unnecessary.  We have no cultural or religious reasons for believing it to be necessary, so in that context we have no need to have our children circumcised.  I am very well aware that in many cultures circumcision is important and necessary.  When I eventually finish my studies and qualify to be a nurse I will no doubt come into contact with many many people of different cultural backgrounds who do have those beliefs.  Being tolerant and accepting of other cultural beliefs does not mean I have to personally share those beliefs, or change my own values.  It also doesn’t change the fact that male circumcision has nothing to do with feminism, in so far as it is not women who have driven the continuation of the practice in our country.

Ausfire says:

05:52pm | 08/03/10

Bon, when I said “your”, I didn’t mean you but people as a whole. My point esentially is that feminist actions are only for the benefit of feminists as a whole and not for society, based on cultural and religious differences. Personally I am against both, but being tolerant of other cultures and beliefs, I accept those decisions - radical feminists do not. It has to be their way or else.

As for what Ge Off wrote, I am quite convinced it is sarcasm. From Ge Off’s comments I would say that they are against genital muilation of both genders no matter what it is called. From my own knowledge I would assume that they meant what I wrote, in that female circumcision (mutilation) is not excepted in western culture but male circumcision (mutilation) is - double standards.

I think the crux is that many feminists and feminist supporters reject a Men’s day as a “me tooism”. Isn’t that what women wanted, equality? The me tooism started with women wanting to be addressed as male equals - and so they should be. Most men just want the pendulum to land equal instead of far into female advantage, which is what has happened in many areas such as health, etc.

Amanda says:

11:16pm | 08/03/10

I have a son and I did not choose to get him circumcised, basically because his father was not ( his father died before he was born so was my decision alone) just so you know where I stand.

However I must add to this bit of the debate, that there is a major difference between male and female circumcision. Male circumcision is usually done for health reasons, there are no real physical handicaps that the boys are left with. Female circumcision is done wholely and soley ( from all the research and stories I have read about this) so that the woman has no pleasure from sex, as most ( I didnt say all) believe this will turn these women into some sort of sex fiend, and look around for it from others besides their husbands. Its a fair bit different. I mean the clitoris is removed, there are no health benefits involved in this. So I cannot see how it is an even argument.
I hate adding comments to stories like this, as I dislike the hate that a lot of men seem to direct towards women, and the same in reverse with all the attacking going on. Not that I ever see this type of thing going on in the outside world away from the blogs, and find that men and women on a whole, not always, show the utmost respect for each other, but it does say something for the direction of the world we now all live in that this is what it is coming too. I love men, I love the masculinity and the way they feel so protective over women and always look out for them, and in return they get my utmost respect and adoration. So reading these thoughts are all really disturbing. I would doubt anyone commenting actually had anything to do with organising the international womens day, and I really dont think it is needed. We should be addressing these issues on a daily basis, as well as the issues men have, or forcing our politicians to start to do some actual work and stop all the speaking

Bon says:

12:46pm | 09/03/10

Ausfire I agree that there is a double standard when it comes to male and female circumcision, although as Amanda points out there is a huge difference between them in terms of trauma to the body and side effects.

If men want their own day - great.  There are plenty of men’s issues that could be highlighted by having such a day.  If the media got on board and publicised it as they do International Women’s Day than all the better.  Boys need healthy, well adjusted fathers just as much as they need healthy mothers.  I think, though, that there is still this idea that speaking about certain issues is ‘unmanly’.  I think men still have a ways to go in that regard.  Women don’t mind talking about women’s issues. many men I know however (husband included) would see that as a bit too ‘soft’ for blokes.

Jojo says:

11:19am | 17/03/10

Ausfire,
You are wrong about the boys are a clear beneficiary. Extreme example, in parts of Asia such as China and India many are beginning to see girls are a better ‘social security’ than boys.
Why? Because many boys who were given everything and taught to be aggressive, ambitious and forward turned and threw their families away to pursue their own goals. Basically the family bankrupted themselves on their sons Eastern style expecting to be taken cared of and the sons went Western style on them by going off and pursuing their own life, leaving their parents to rot.
If they had raised their children Western style it wouldn’t have been so bad because many Western parents do ensure they have some money for themselves. But Eastern parents will spend everything on their kids and nothing on themselves.
Many daughters who have been raised submissive and in servitude to the family turn around and actually support and look after their parents even after ‘given’ away in marriage. Some even put aside marriage for their parents. So this trend you mention makes boys being a clear beneficiary questionable.
As for Circumcision, let me put things into perspective for you. In the extreme forms of circumcision, called infibulation, practised by Africans and some parts of Mid-East, the entire clitoris, labia minoria is cut off, most of the time they do not even have the dignity of a clean knife -  many are unhygienic and dangerous with rusty blades used on other girls - then the outer lips are sewn up, leaving only a small hole for bodily fluids to leak out. It takes a woman in such a condition well over 30min to expel urine and every month she is consumed in very great pain for the pressure built up is enormous with the tiny hole not large enough for normal leakage. This is IF the procedure ends “well”. Otherwise she is left to contend with smelly pus, infections or even death.
On her marriage night, her husband will use a blade and CUT HER OPEN. Sex is excruciating with much blood loss. She will never, ever enjoy sex for her entire life and it will be painful.
The lesser circumcisions, involve cutting of the entire clitoris and others include the labia minora, done in Indonesia, Malaysia, much of Mid-East, some parts of Africa.
Male circumcision involves removing the skin surrounding the object of pleasure not the object of pleasure itself.
The male equivalent of FGM would be the removal of the tip of the penis up to and including the removal of the penis and scrotum.

After circumcision a man can still enjoy sex but a woman cannot.

LC says:

07:25pm | 07/01/11

Amanda,

They are varying degrees of female genital mutilation. The least invasive of which removes just the clitoral hood (but not the clitoris). Seeing as the clitoral hood and the foreskin are male-to-female equivalents, if you condone male circumcision (male genital mutilation) you must also condone at least this form of FGM.

E says:

09:41am | 08/03/10

Hey Kat, ‘some men cannot be bothered to do the work to support each other’ , thats pretty rich. I suppose before female emancipation we were all living on the tops of hills defending our turf?

Who invented hospitals, police and schools, who built them, funded them and staffed them? 

So how about opening your eyes to the civilisation which has afforded you the opportunity to have an education, be well fed and medically sound and realise that it didnt happen by accident or without a lot of work. Its makes you sound like child, or overprivilaged undereducated arts student to make that comment.

Also realise that women were also taken care of by male doctors in the 19th century and protected by male police officers, so not only did men of that era help each other, they helped women too.

Ausfire says:

10:24am | 08/03/10

The reason there is more services for women is that men generally put women and children first. That is until femisim all but killed off chivilry. Now the gender that complains the loudest (usually women) get’s the most .... The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Steve says:

03:50pm | 08/03/10

Yeah Kat, you should be greateful for men looking after you so well. (Insert ‘extreme arcasm emoticon here’)

Steve says:

04:12pm | 09/03/10

Men are in power Kat so these mens’ health centers should be everywhere,eh? lol Women and children first Kat!

Steve says:

04:16pm | 09/03/10

Equality where exactly Elizabeth? Now don’t be sexist with a “pick and choose” mentality. And how on this earth can you consider women having “a long way to go to achieve equality” when you have all that matters thanks to men in the first place: health and longevity with men expending their lives for you. Who are the real sexists Elizabeth?? Look in the mirror, self preserving sexist.

Bobbie says:

10:27am | 08/03/10

Well done Xen. I am glad to see that there does exist such a day. Now maybe men like Eric who clearly has a lot of pain can focus his energies on raising the profile of this day in Australia.

To Ge Off - you are right - boys and men also suffer. You assume that I ignore men’s needs when I was simply making an observation.

To Richard - well done on a great article. it’s good to remember that that there are men and women in developing countries who are working together to improve living conditions for men and women and boys and girls. It’s not ‘us’ against ‘them’.

Wow! says:

10:32am | 08/03/10

Bah ha ha. Xen—it appears some people are so caught up in the anger of ‘who’s worse off’ that they didn’t even realise that Nov 19 is International Men’s Day. For all their apparent care about men’s issues, they’d rather spend time being angry at others than focusing on how they can help their fellow human beings, men or women. It amazes me that anyone can sit back an say that another person’s suffering is worth less than mine. Great way to snip this thread, Xen!

Richard Fleming says:

10:31am | 08/03/10

Thanks xen, I actually did know that this day exists (as uncelebrated as it is); however I took the angle of the way I used to think about the more heralded women’s day. I apologise that I didn’t add a footnote at the end of the article.

JM says:

09:02am | 04/08/11

Dumbass. The comments above point to the wiki for International Men’s Day, which is held annually in many countries on Nov. 19th. Dumbass.

All of us says:

01:25pm | 08/03/10

Gret stuff once again, zeta.

But you forgot one point. This is the first generation of women that won’t be able to use hypergamy to further themselves.

All that partying in Lady GaGa pants means they get to their 30s and instead of being young and attractive enough to find a beta male to support them and look after their children they can’t. They have to settle for the theta males.

But that doesn’t matter, because now they can earn their own money and be financially independent and be just like men. No, wait, a report came out again today to confirm they’ll be over $1m worse off compared to men.

Looks like they’re just not capable after all…...

Zeta says:

01:26pm | 08/03/10

Only if we can have ‘Everyone beat your neighbour with an axe handle’ Day as well.

Ausfire says:

09:30am | 09/03/10

I find this comment from Zeta offensive. I will NOT support violence in any means, including what maybe intended as a joke - violence against persons is a servious matter that needs major redressing.

When Erin Pizzey (founder of the first women’s shelter in the UK) spoke out about violent women, she immeadiately was inundated with threats from feminist groups and damaged property. One thing that Eric has said that can NOT be denied about most feminists, if they can not attack the truth, then attack they attack the person.

Eric says:

05:52pm | 08/03/10

Very sexist, d’Arcy.

In reality, it’s men who do most of the fishing, and other dangerous jobs.

This sort of misandry is the reason why so many people reject feminism.

Ausfire says:

12:19pm | 08/03/10

Richard, I’d like to know where you got your watered down figures from. My figures (just over 100:1) are in a previous comment and are directly from the state and federal governments. If I can find the exact number which I have posted on a forum, I will post here if anyone disbelieves me. I did forget to leave out the public funding by business of these which equates to around 1000:1 in favor of women.

Richard says:

02:54pm | 08/03/10

Thabks Ausfire.

Don’t you know that 86.4% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Ausfire says:

06:00pm | 08/03/10

Yes, I heard that but the figure i was given was 84.6% (LOL).

Seriously, I did alot of research into this around 2-3 years ago because my grandfather died of prostrate cancer, my father had been recently diagnosed with it, which meant that I was 3 times more likely to be afflicted by it as well - not a comforting thought.

I was appalled at what I found out and wrote to members of parliament (mostly men) about these findings. Since then, more government funded public awareness has resulted and the funding gaps have deminished slightly. It all does come back to the saying, “The squeaky wheel gets the grease”, which is a problem with men in that they tend to suffer in silence.

Andrew says:

02:26pm | 08/03/10

Well said Bon. As the father of two bright, independent and capable daughters I feel it is my duty to provide them with the tools to be bright, independent and capable adults who make their own choices.
By all means let’s attack poverty and mistreatment of women in every country but bleating feminists who demand quota’s etc do themselves and their sex a dissevice.
Note, the strong and capable women in our society would be insulted if you potrayed them as victims.

Zeta says:

01:23pm | 08/03/10

Damn straight. Men are nature’s apex killing machines. Not predators, we invented processed cheese to dull that urge. No, we’re like house cats in that we kill because we can. Great, glorious, gun owning house cats.

That is why we are superior to every other creature that walks flies swims or crawls on planet Earth. When we encounter something we lack the means to kill, we create it.

Sometimes I wonder how Charles Darwin did it. A whole island of new species in the Galapagos, how did he not want to be the first man to kill them all?

Just remember, that your husband is possessed of those same urges, no matter how domesticity might have numbed them. So when the creepy ‘MAN’ does lurk around, your husband is genetically predisposed to clawing out his still beating heart and offering it to you as a gift of his love.

V says:

03:36pm | 08/03/10

Absolute rubbish. You neglect to mention the increasing female violence we see in schools today. It seems equality will be reached across all gender based statistics.

Cuppa says:

06:21pm | 08/03/10

You really have some issues dont you Zeta..?Is this your way of getting back at all those big bad males that teased you at school..?Poor thing…...

Brian says:

08:08pm | 08/03/10

There are female burglars. There are female murderers (particularly of their own children). There are female soldiers. The Soviets found females to be far better snipers than males because they could kill without emotion and were more patient than men. There are female drug dealers and drug addicts, who attack people. Female gang members. Female terrorists and bombers (suicide and conventional). Female combat pilots. There are even female rapists. Women do all these things, and if it’s not to the same extent as men it still happens. If you were always scared of the dark because there could be a creepy MAN (and a stranger to boot) the problem was probably with you. The majority of child abductions, sexual assaults and murders are performed by people you know, not strangers.

Steve says:

02:50pm | 08/03/10

No Liz, you ‘fess up’! When was the last time you gave your partner a prostate checkup, assuming you have a male partner?? All it takes is a finger up the clapper (which he will enjoy) and presto! Good news or bad news for him. Yet it seems women can’t even fathom such a simple check for their partners own health and wellbeing. Men love women more than women love men.

Ray says:

02:00pm | 08/03/10

Cats, what did you do regarding women’s day. The point is men don’t need a day patronising their insecurity.  They’ve just had a gut full of women and their protected species priveleges. Never, I repeat never has society seen a more specially treated group than western women. Nor have we seen a group subject to such demise with culpable intent as men are. Women hold complete social domination and only want men if they are accepted on women’s terms. A very self centred group lost in focus in their own conceited space. Put simply, an unattractive package.

Richard Fleming says:

04:58pm | 08/03/10

Thanks for the comment David - I am not sure where you inferred that I believed that we should apply the same standards that apply in the developing world.

I personally believe that one of the best solutions to empower women is through micro-financing loans - whilst it’s not perfect if definitely lets them control their own destiny and lift them and their families out of poverty.

Richard Fleming says:

04:53pm | 08/03/10

Regarding the facts, I have corroborated all of my facts against research. The article I sent thepunch.com.au included all of these resources (hyperlinked). Please visit my blog at http://globalpovertyproject.com/blog/ to follow these links.

Richard Fleming says:

05:01pm | 08/03/10

Steve - please read the article again. I have not said that we need to protect women - rather we should empower the poorest women in the world to end extreme poverty.

Also, what facts do you have to slander me as stupid. All I have done is express an opinion on how we can improve the world for everyone - however stupid that sounds.

Eric says:

05:57pm | 08/03/10

Actually, Richard, all you have done is to whinge about the poooor wimmins, and claim that men don’t need any attention.

Wit sexism like that, why would any reasonable person support you?

bec says:

04:19pm | 08/03/10

This is the second time you’ve posted this. I am sensing a theme, here.

Eric says:

06:00pm | 08/03/10

I would be happier if our society stopped discriminating against men, and recognised that we have problems too.

The fact that articles like this are published in the mainstream shows that we have a long way to go.

Ausfire says:

08:30pm | 08/03/10

Personally, I would prefer NEITHER and a society where genders have equality as best as possible, allowing for gender differences.

But, there are a flood of pro-feminist idiology minded people that oppose gender equality and prefer female superiority. While this exists, the gender wars will also exist and NOTHING will be done. In some cases, it’s the “cereal box academics” that lend their “expertise” to the fight that keeps the war going, all for the sole purpose of promoting inequality. Only working together will the problems between the genders be solved. Unfortuneately negative human traits (greed, etc) tend to prevent this.

Michael says:

12:42pm | 09/03/10

Thanks for the comments.

I am genuinely interested in what punchers see as their personal responsibility in achieving equality and ending discrimination. 

If IWD is a rubbish idea cooked up by (derogatory collective noun of choice - the brainwashed, the fem*whatevers, the latte set, etc) what does all this translate to on a personal level?

Most of the responses here seems seem to think that some sort of equality is desirable but just don’t do it in some sort of public campaign.

What do the critics of IWD see as the personal responsibility on equality? If equality is worthwhile, then how is it achieved?

Eric and Ausfire I am really interested in your views to the second part of the question. If you had (for argument’s sake) a son and a daughter what would you say to them?

Cheers

Ausfire says:

04:18pm | 09/03/10

Michael, FYI I have 5 daughters (1 a tomboy) but no sons, varying in ages from 5 to 21. What do I tell them about IWD? NOTHING. What do I tell them overall? We are all equal, no matter who we are or where we come from, and we can only do our best to do what is right and fair for everyone.

Even within a gender there is inequality determined by physical or mental capacity. We all can only do what we are capable of with what we have available to us. Inequality between genders is created when blatent differences exist in conditions, social, wages, etc. In a socialist state (what feminism is modelled on) everyone gets the same no matter their input. But, we do NOT live in a socialist state, we live in a democracy so equality (between genders) can only be based on persons of similar capabilities across genders being equal.

What really annoys me around this time every year, is the claim that “women are paid less then men”. This is oviously NOT true when it comes to a wage - legislation ensures this. A women who works less hours because of needing to care for kids will receive less renumuration as would any male counterpart in the same position. The result overall is that men, the usual family income earner, will receive a greater renumeration because they have completed a greater workload.

I’m a male, i’m physically disabled (and can no longer perform my usual occupation of the previous 20 years) , I care for my daughters, and I get less money then a working woman ... should I be crying discrimination?

Eric says:

06:10pm | 09/03/10

Michael,

Equality is not possible in reality, but the closest possible approximation can be achieved by taking a long hard look at all the issues and outcomes, and carefully evaluating their causes.

Social equality is based on equal rights, or the nearest possible legal equivalent. Affirmative action is incompatible with equality.

Equality must discard all prejudices about Evil Men, or Evil Women, and be based on a balanced view. Consequently, equality is impossible while the ideology of feminism prevails.

Michael says:

06:47pm | 09/03/10

Ausfire - thanks for your answer. I understand your argument, although I don’t I agree with all of it. Nonetheless I respect your views.

Eric - with respect, you ducked the question. The point isn’t about what “they” do or some abstract group pushing whatever line but the issue of individual responsibility and personal contribution.

I was hoping you would share what you personally do to contribute to ensuring equality for others in your life. The example you set, the values you share and so on.

BTW, if equality is possible do you think the struggle is worthwhile? Is the journey valuable if we never reach the destination?

Something else to consider. The other dimension of equality is equality of opportunity. Disabled access is an example. If circumstances beyond an individual’s control mean that they are disadvantaged from accessing what the majority take for granted, is that fair? What does a fair go mean? Fair go for both parties

All the best

Eric says:

09:10pm | 09/03/10

Michael,

If I ‘ducked the question’, then it would be because the question was not valid.

Equality in society is not a matter of individual decision—it’s a matter of collective judgement.

I seek to influence the collective judgement through words. This, right here, is my action.

Whether or not you consider it valid is of no concern to me. I do what I do.

Michael says:

09:29am | 10/03/10

Thanks Eric. That’s made a lot of things perfectly clear.

Steve says:

05:04pm | 08/03/10

Perhaps BTS could request the bitter boys in power to ‘lend a hand’ to men’s health? Afterall men are in power and therefore should be providing all kinds of male only health services to men and boys, right? hahaha. Men in power are nothing more than puppets protecting the health and wellbeing of women, the very thing that hinders female progress!

BTS says:

09:25pm | 08/03/10

Steve,

Thanks for demonstrating my point.

Richard Fleming says:

09:10pm | 09/03/10

Thanks for this comment - I am keen to learn more about “fauxmanistas” - I googled it and only this reference came up.

femanism=communism, formersnag. says:

07:59am | 16/03/10

i have been around the AFL a long time Richard & am also a wordsmith Anti              
Fauxmanista
League

i am happy for the punch team to pass on my email to you, we need to get more media attention, too many children have been abused.

Eric says:

07:45am | 09/03/10

Now you know how it feels to be a men’s rights activist in a Western country.

Dave says:

10:11am | 09/03/10

Eric is exactly right. Now you know what it feels to be a man in a Western Country. However please note that unlike feminists, men are not “attacking you” or bully you they are attacking the manipulation of 3rd world suffering by feminists.

If you want to build compassion about 3rd world suffering then using Western feminism and gender politics is a loosing proposition. If the rationale you give for Women’s day were actually true we would instead have a Deprived Children’s day. This would be much more compassionate, targeted and rational.

Richard Fleming says:

09:11pm | 09/03/10

Dear Eric,

I am honestly intrigued by your ideas and views. I would love to see them in an article on thepunch.

I think every argument needs two sides - and you are very passionate about your p.o.v. I am sure that the punch guys would be happy to publish it.

sam says:

10:50am | 10/03/10

Eric you don’t need to write an article you need to see a therapist.

Eric says:

07:44am | 09/03/10

It’s this kind of hate speech by feminists that causes the backlash against sexist events like International Women’s Day.

Men have had enough of the constant bashing.

LotsOfLaughter says:

08:28am | 09/03/10

The Woman’s Weekly magazine slogan is, “Because everyday is a woman’s day”.

LOL

Eric says:

08:32am | 09/03/10

Feminist Debating Tactic #2: Never use reasoned argument when you can just shout slogans instead.

Rob says:

11:31am | 09/03/10

James, simple, because they never stop whining about being victims and ransoming society for special treatment. I like most men have had a gut full. To whit they have no respect or space for men in their world other than what they can get out of them. Your day will come.

James2 says:

11:37am | 09/03/10

I think that says more about the individual women you personally know than all women generally.  None of those things apply to the women in my life who I love and respect.

marley says:

01:23pm | 09/03/10

Actually, Rob - having read all the comments on this thread - it’s the men who are whining.

Rob says:

02:05pm | 09/03/10

Marley, that’s right, they’ve had a gut full of a life time of women whining and having all the special funding, legislation, and social support. When will the penny drop with women. They’ve lost it. An unattractive package without one ounce of gratuity. What women can’t stand is that after years of censored comment men can now speak out. It’s a pain in the butt isn’t it. If women are so profound in their egality, with sexist comments that healthy women will benefit all children (aka heallthy men won’t), why do they support an education system that culpably discriminates against boys.

Eric says:

05:26pm | 09/03/10

James2, what the hell happened to you to make you hate men so much?

Bill says:

05:00pm | 10/03/10

James2, I think you are wrong in assuming that certain male posters hate women. It might be more accurate to say that they have a strong disdain for feminism. Like you, I have a mother, a sister, a wife and a daughter. I love all of them dearly. They are all wonderful, caring and fair individual. But I dislike and distrust feminism with a passion. I also question the validity of saving the world by helping girls. Why not just help people.

Richard Fleming says:

01:28pm | 11/03/10

I totally agree with you Bill - I think we should help the people.
All the article says is to help the people who invest 90 per cent of their income back into their families - as this has a greater flow on effect so the family is better off, which then has a flow on effect and the community is better off, which then has an even greater flow on effect and the country is better off.

When I was a business consultant we used to work on “Cell based growth” - which focused organisational resources onto business units that deliver superior growth, thus creating a sustained systemic profitability for the wider company.

Think of it like a business investment. Would you invest into a company that took 70% of profits for itself and only put 30% back into growing the company and subsequent profits for you as a share holder? Or would you prefer to invest into a company that reinvested 90% back into the company?

Lou says:

02:02pm | 09/03/10

Hahaha. Brilliant!

I am usure if he is even legit, surely someone could not be that ignorant.

Davy says:

02:30pm | 09/03/10

Lou I am surprised at that comment. If reincarnation is true and spirits get to choose their body, then the fact that about 51% are women really proves that 51% are that ignorant. Unless of course becoming a woman is a karmic punishment. That would probably make better sense and would then explain their dissatisfaction with authority.

Sam says:

02:34pm | 09/03/10

@wk, if you believe in reincarnation and Eric is reborn as a woman, then you will probably be reborn as a card reading crystal ball gazing clairvoyant and Eric (or maybe Erika - I’m thinking Baywatch) will still be miles ahead of you.

Steve says:

04:10pm | 09/03/10

Yep, and have it sooo much easier than women to boot! Imagine, all rights and opportunities without ever having to damage a fingernail. it just proves how under appreciated men are. I truly feel pity for my heterosexual male friends who are ball and chained to their wives every whim.

Eric says:

05:30pm | 09/03/10

Jojo, that would be a noble goal.

But feminist hate propaganda against men makes it near impossible to achieve in our society.

When the media, government, academics and others all portray men as evil, there will be a backlash. We are starting to see the beginnings.

Ausfire says:

04:35pm | 09/03/10

A good argument takes into account the facts and the truth - not feminist propaganda, believed by the masses of sheep.

Speaking of “histories”, it has always been; Men get, women want too. This goes right back to dawn of humankind. You only need to follow the history of clothing and fashions to understand the point I’m making.

Then there are the other “histories” where men have done atrocious things in the name of and for women, specifically their “beloved”. I can cite numerous cases through out history.

It is only mostly in the 20th century (and late 19th) that women (in western cultures) have wanted, strived for, reached and in some cases, surpassed “equality”. How was this managed? With the assistance of men.

Rachel says:

06:32pm | 24/04/10

In response to “I think the case for more feminist liberalisation and claims for better equality in the developed world is dead - it’s good enough and it’s gone far enough.” Sam. One in four women are sexually assaulted in their lifetime. I’m not talking about mere harassment, I’m talking about incest, torture and rape. One in three women experience violence within their marriage. To not only suggest, but blatantly state that the case for better equality is dead is good enough, while women are being trafficked as sexual slaves in our own country; while women are being raped and beaten; is not only naïve, but it’s ludicrous, and show acute lack of knowledge of the issues affecting not only Australia, but the entire world.
Australia should be leaders in humans’ rights. Women’s rights should be no exception.

I'm awfully oppressed says:

04:10pm | 09/03/10

Oh, and by the way there in an International Men’s Day happening. Here is the official website of IMD: http://www.international-mens-day.com/

Put it on you calendar all ye fair minded men and women!

Michael says:

04:03pm | 10/03/10

Beyond Feminism: Yes!

Found this today - definitely worth a read
http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?story_id=15606229&source=most_commented

from that pinko rag “The Economist”

Cheers

Eric says:

05:08pm | 10/03/10

By that definition, I am a feminist.

Methinks the definition is lacking.

Eric says:

06:31am | 12/03/10

I’m thinking about it, Richard.

However, short comments are easier to write than long articles.

Richard Fleming says:

01:23pm | 12/03/10

Great to hear mate…

Grab my contact details from the guys at the punch if you have any questions about framing the article etc.

Let’s ensure that both sides of the debate are continued to be effectively communicated.

John says:

10:25pm | 15/03/10

You all need to chill out. There’s a serious amount of hating going on here. I think the whole point of any equality movement is for us all to respect and care for each other, not play the blame game calling each other “male pig” or “stinking femmo” or whatever under our breath while typing an excess of capitals and exclamation marks. Perhaps if it wasn’t for aggressive, defensive attitudes like this in general there would be no need for any sort of awareness day… perhaps we would just be happy.

Eric says:

06:45am | 16/03/10

John, you should direct your advice at the feminists, who decided to make everything a men-vs-women issue.

Richard Fleming says:

05:16pm | 26/03/10

Thanks Brett L - you are one of the first comments that has caught the essence of the article.

Richard Fleming says:

11:59am | 05/05/10

Great idea Alice - I just ordered the book online