“So,” I said to my husband, “there’s something I think we should watch on telly.”

Play, not work, is what relationships need. Picture: Thinkstock

“I thought we weren’t supposed to be watching television.”

He’s right. Last month, in a nutso attempt at marriage enrichment I’d suggested we spend the evenings talking or planning imaginary holidays or playing Scrabble.

“Fine, but if there’s no TV, there’s also no Facebook or Twitter,” he’d muttered. Defensively.

Just quietly, Scrabble’s a bit of a bore once you’ve peaked with “quandary” on a triple word score. And Croatia would be fab, if we had the coin.

So I was relieved to see a new TV series advertised.

“What are we watching?” said the husband, gleefully reunited with his beloved remote. “Making Couples Happy – it’s a doco about four couples having relationship counselling.”

You’d have thought I’d offered him a warm fish milkshake. What came out of his mouth is definitely not permissible in Scrabble.

Nevertheless, we settled down to watch eight people arguing because, hey, we don’t know how to do that. “Which of those women am I most like?” I asked – a sure-fire way to promote marital harmony (one of his mates was once asked: “If you had to sleep with one of my friends, who would it be?”).

Turns out that ailing marriages make for compelling viewing – both in the fragments that echo your own life and the relief that yours isn’t as bad.

But as I watched these people in various states of domestic unhappiness – and contemplated the heydays and grey days of our own 12-year union – I wondered: When did we make marriage so difficut? When did we squeeze the life out of that beautiful, sure, 700-year-old word and lump it, as we so often do, with the phrase “hard work”.

“You have to keep at it,” we tell couples barely back from the altar. “It’s tough work,” we warn single wannabe-marrieds, as if this ancient, precious commitment is akin to zipping up a boiler suit and heading down a coalmine for the rest of our lives.

Going to war is hard work. Losing a child is unimaginable pain. Slavery, the Holocaust – how people kept going I don’t know. But marriage?

Look, I don’t want to diminish the effort and commitment required, but what most relationships need is not work, but play.

But we stop playing, don’t we? Where we once capered and caroused, stayed out late, laughing, lying in the grass because it was the loveliest thing ever, we now stagnate, or worse, search for perceived slights or deficiencies that we layer like a deft legal argument to deflect from our own failings.

So many of us take our best selves to work and bring our worst selves home. We treat our colleagues to our sparkles, smiles and funny anecdotes then switch like Superman to Clark Kent as we slouch, dull and dissatisfied, through the front door.

What if we were to try the opposite?

Comedian and author Andrew Clover reckons we’ve forgotten how important “play” is in a relationship.

After a session of marriage therapy where he and his wife were asked to say why they loved each other, the pair took themselves to the pub where, drink in hand, they knocked out a karaoke version of Islands in the Stream. “(It) cheered us up immensely,” he wrote.

“I’d question the modern belief that each grievance must be aired, that a sick relationship can be criticised back to health.”

Clover, who I’m touting as the next (cooler/British) Dr Phil, has written the New Rules of Love: Don’t be afraid to go to sleep on a row. Don’t expect multiple orgasms. Don’t talk unless you have something positive to say. Try listening.

“Just spend time together,” adds Clover. Laugh. Sing. Play. I don’t think he means Scrabble.

Comments on this post close at 8pm AEDT.

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110 comments

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    • acotrel says:

      05:06am | 25/02/13

      The thing which would help my marriage the most would be if the mobile phone network stopped working.  Then I could go out to lunch with my wife and the beautiful baby we care for without others pursuing us with their misery.  I thought that the 32 years of my previous marriage were as bad as it could get, however I’d never thought about relatives having domestics in the public domain. I can’t even take solace in the fact that ‘the system runs on bullshit’ - there is simply too much of it.

    • Mik says:

      07:23am | 25/02/13

      Turn off the phone for a couple of hours and show them where the help pages are in the telephone book/site - and don’t be too generous with handouts. Remind them growing up is hard to do, but it is possible.
      ( Alternatively, leave and don ‘t give a forwarding address.)

    • Robbo says:

      07:33am | 25/02/13

      Try turning your phone off, its really not that hard.

    • marley says:

      07:43am | 25/02/13

      Umm, here’s a wild suggestion.  Don’t take your phone with you. If you or your wife is a slave to the mobile phone, ask yourself why that is, and do something about it.  And I don’t mean grumbling.

    • S.L says:

      08:44am | 25/02/13

      @ acotrel…yes I agree I have relo’s and friends that make an art form of having domestics in the public domain. Highly embarrassing when they’re in your company and they don’t give a hoot that you get dragged into it!

    • Jess Sayin says:

      09:28am | 25/02/13

      Maybe she keeps the phone on to avoid talking to you. I would.

      And rather that talk to her about it, you come here. No wonder she keeps the phone on.

    • maybe says:

      10:37am | 25/02/13

      I’m on Vodafone, so I’m disconnected quite a lot of the time anyway.

    • Robert Smissen says:

      03:45pm | 25/02/13

      Oh, poor baby, you don’t have an “off” switch on your phone? ? ? Must have been A Gillard that you bought, LOL

    • Mad Man says:

      04:47pm | 25/02/13

      Hey Acotrel! The thing that may help your marriage could be talking to your wife instead of posting here at 5.06am and then spending the rest of the day scanning for comments and adding further replies….

      Just a thought mate.

    • Johnno says:

      05:26am | 25/02/13

      Maybe you should break up.  What kind of wanker-friends would berate their newly-married mates with stories about how hard it is to be married.  Selfish ones, I imagine.  Perhaps neither of you are interesting people.

    • Katie says:

      07:49am | 25/02/13

      I’m pretty sure she was using ‘we’ as a collective, societal ‘we’, not specifically her and her partner.

      Perhaps you should think about it before critiquing.

    • johnno says:

      09:15am | 25/02/13

      Wrong, read it again yourself.  I, we, me.  Personal pronouns.  Nice try, turkey.

    • Kika says:

      10:12am | 25/02/13

      No, I agree with Katie. We as in the collective We. You know, We the people. It’s the Author’s ‘We’. Turkey.

      “Similar to the editorial “we” is the practice common in scientific literature of referring to a generic third person by we (instead of the more common one or the informal you):

      - By adding four and five, we obtain nine.
      - We are thus led also to a definition of “time” in physics. – Albert Einstein

      “We” in this sense often refers to “the reader and the author,” since the author often assumes that the reader knows and agrees with certain principles or previous theorems for the sake of brevity (or, if not, the reader is prompted to look them up), for example, so that the author does not need to explicitly write out every step of a mathematical proof.[citation needed]

      This practice is also common in philosophy journals and texts, and comments in computer source code”

    • Just some guy says:

      11:23am | 25/02/13

      She starts out using personal stories that are very specific (“But as I watched these people in various states of domestic unhappiness – and contemplated the heydays and grey days of our own 12-year union – I wondered…”), and then tries to map her experiences onto the rest of us (But we stop playing, don’t we? Where we once capered and caroused, stayed out late, laughing, lying in the grass because it was the loveliest thing ever, we now stagnate,...”) .

    • Kika says:

      12:45pm | 25/02/13

      Oh come on, people. Can’t you use your own reading comprehension skills to realise she’s not being literal?

    • JoniM says:

      02:00pm | 25/02/13

      “Which of those women am I most like?”

      Well Angela ! Having also watched the series…......
      I think as long as you aren’t a miserable piece of work like that Alison and your old man isn’t a wuss like her partner Paul, well you probably have a chance of surviving together !

    • Mahhrat says:

      06:32am | 25/02/13

      I agree.  Mrs Mahhrat and I are both avid PC gamers.  We love Borderlands 2, and we’ll often team up to go kill things together.  Awesome fun, and we’ve had similar games we do this with in the past.

      We also have a reasonably active social life, we spend time with mutual friends and separate friends most weekends.

      I think that last bit’s the clincher though, and why we’re tracking pretty well after nearly six years.  Too many couples, in the heady starts of relationships, do everything together.  It’s natural to do that, but it just isn’t sustainable!  You can’t spend all day, every day with someone, yet we try to because that’s how it started and shit can’t change, right?

      I used to do that. The biggest problem is, if you’re with someone 24/7, they see the worst of you as well as the best.  Given you’re supposed to love that person, don’t they deserve to be shielded from that worst?  I can be a self-righteous, argumentative prick.  My lady shouldn’t be over-exposed to that; she should be over-exposed to the better versions of me.

      With Mrs Mahhrat, I said to her very early on that I like to spend several hours at a time alone.  She totally respects that (and does it herself), and we’re mature enough to simply say, “Just want to be alone for a bit babe” and the other gives that space.

      Stop relying on your significant other for your life and ensure you have one of your own.  Have space, and suddenly the time you spend together becomes that much more electric.

    • fml says:

      08:58am | 25/02/13

      I agree with that mahrat,

      I think going out when you can, instead of staying home and “playing scrabble” (It’s what the kids call it these days) keeps the relationship on the up.  You can try a new restaurant, new bar, something. Doesn’t have to be expensive, just to get out. Although, to be fair it can be hard with kids.

    • PsychoHyena says:

      10:01am | 25/02/13

      @Mahhrat, can definitely relate to your case and agree with the tendency for couples to take the approach that whenever they’re in the same space as the other then they have to interact.

      It all comes down to respect and love, either by themselves is not enough.

    • AdamC says:

      11:24am | 25/02/13

      Well said, Mahhrat. I am sure there are some couples who thrive on doing everything together. For most of us, though, spending some time apart and having some personal interests, separate from your partner’s, is the way to go.

      BTW, does anyone else think it is odd that the dude in the photo is wearing his hipster glasses while jumping on the bed?

    • JTO says:

      12:18pm | 25/02/13

      AdamC - Very strange. Is it even legal to wear those glasses without a beard? This morning I saw the real deal. Glasses, beard, on a fixie, satchel on the back, drinking coffee. Wasn’t close enough to note the obscure source of the coffee, although I’m sure it was hand picked by monks.

    • Nick says:

      03:11pm | 25/02/13

      I hadn’t noticed the guys glasses…I was too busy trying to work out if I can get a peek up the legs of the woman’s shorts.

    • gof says:

      06:59am | 25/02/13

      Just look at the opposition leader, if that is what Marriage does to you, makes you a boring old inarticulate self imposed egoist who’s highest score in scrabble is probably 2, then I am more than happy to go through life as rootrat!

    • asdf says:

      09:19am | 25/02/13

      gof has put acotrel out of business

    • Jamo says:

      07:19am | 25/02/13

      @gof, more personal attacks, it’s just noise mate with no depth,yes you are a roofrat

    • Jim Moriarty says:

      07:27am | 25/02/13

      Here’s a tip: If, on a warm summer evening, you decide to become armorous in the back yard, just don’t. Because you will end up with mozzie bites in places you really don’t want them.

    • fml says:

      07:40am | 25/02/13

      How about compromise?  Maybe ask the husband what he wants to do for once?

    • Jamo says:

      07:53am | 25/02/13

      @fml, well that would just be subservient wouldn’t, we don’t want to go back to the stone age

    • JTO says:

      08:06am | 25/02/13

      The stone age was the 1950s right?

    • Modern Primitive says:

      08:58am | 25/02/13

      Oh you joker you, fml.

    • wakeuppls says:

      09:33am | 25/02/13

      JTO

      The Stone Age was a time with near zero rates of illegitimacy.

    • fml says:

      09:49am | 25/02/13

      I am serious for once..

      The bloke in the picture isn’t smiling, he is asking “Is this high enough?”

      :p

    • Tubesteak says:

      10:26am | 25/02/13

      That’s unacceptably misogynistic!

      How can you be so insensitive to the woman’s needs?

    • JTO says:

      10:58am | 25/02/13

      fml - When I look at a photo of a couple I look at the eyes, and you’re totally right. She’s doing her thing because she wants to, and he’s looking to her for approval. Does that matter? Not really… just an observation.

      wakeuppls - That would be because there was no premarital sex. That only started happening this century I believe. Everyone was uptight and repressed until the current generation did things never before thought of in human history. It must be so. Just ask them.

    • Might have a point says:

      11:49am | 25/02/13

      JML actually has a point with regards to the author… The husband of the article was first told not to watch TV and complied (obviously not his choice, see “his beloved remote” comment).  He was then told he could watch TV but defers to the author asking, “What are we watching?”.  The suggested viewing was not even close to his choice (queue explitives that are not permissible in scrabble).  Regardless, he defers and they end up watching what the author wants.

      It seems obvious that there is no balance in this relationship and this isn’t a male/female thing (although one might question if this occurred the other way around if the husband would not be considered a misogynist).  Without balance the relationship is doomed… The husband will secretly resent the author for her inconsiderate nature and (even though he might not say something) eventually this will manifest itself in other ways.. short temper, arguments etc.

      To the author, it’s all very well to have a bit more “play”, but it’s not fun for both if only one person chooses the games. Think about it.

    • James1 says:

      12:04pm | 25/02/13

      “The Stone Age was a time with near zero rates of illegitimacy.”

      Indeed.  The discovery of paternity tests sure put an end to that…

    • Fred says:

      12:18pm | 25/02/13

      I can already hear what the author will say if the guy is actually given his choice for once in the relationship, “you always get your way and when will you do what I want to do”. What is it with women that the word ‘always’ is used whenever they don’t get their way or a one off event occurs that they are displeased with? Don’t they get it is a lie and an insult to the receiver?

    • fml says:

      12:25pm | 25/02/13

      Furthermore, I think the picture is indicative of the author’s article, more so than she thinks.. for example, look where the lady in the picture is holding for balance… The male who is asking how high to jump, is also afraid to jump “too high” for the fear of getting his nads ripped off.

      JTO, I agree the eyes are good place to look, but I think the man in the picture has his eyes firmly planted on her hands. Most women would like to think that he is mentally sizing her fingers so he can buy a vowel renewal ring, my explanation is described above. I guess the difference in perception has something to do with men and women being from different planets, I think some jaded individual wrote a book about it once..

    • Jamo says:

      12:34pm | 25/02/13

      @ might have a point

      Perfectly put ! Impossible to argue with

    • Jamo says:

      12:39pm | 25/02/13

      @fred
      Always as you said and ‘never’ is the other word. You always and you never. You always get to watch what you want on tv, and you never let me decide what to watch on tv. Quite ironic that the author calls it his precious remote when clearly she dictates what they watch.

    • JTO says:

      12:57pm | 25/02/13

      fml - I noticed the hand placement too, but thought it was so obvious someone else would mention it.

    • Fred says:

      01:05pm | 25/02/13

      Thankyou Jamo for adding the other favourite ‘never’. If it wasn’t for the fact that it appears that it seems to be their way of labouring a point about an isolated incident (usually), you would call it for what it is, a lie. It is however a death sentence to call it a lie, facts are irrelevant, we are in the realm of fussy, irrational and emotional logic/thinking/rationalising like a child.

    • Pattem says:

      01:42pm | 25/02/13

      @ fml, you stated: “...so he can buy a vowel renewal ring…”

      That would be an…

      O

      ...because it is the only vowel that resembles a ring!

      smile

    • wakeuppls says:

      02:01pm | 25/02/13

      James1

      Negative. Paternity fraud cases only gained popularity recently with DNA advancements. Single motherhood and illegitimacy has its roots in feminism and other “civil rights” (read: civil privilege) movements.

    • fml says:

      02:07pm | 25/02/13

      Pattem,

      Good catch! Didn’t even realise! Vow :p.

      oops.

    • JTO says:

      02:16pm | 25/02/13

      wakeuppls - I have to admit I have no idea where you’re going with this. The most obvious response is that there have been bastard heirs for as long as there have been heirs. Another response is that over human history it has been the woman that has suffered the consequences of an illegitimate child alone and unsupported by the father. No matter how badly we’ve sought to deal with that (and we have failed miserably IMESHO), it is a major issue of fairness and cannot be dismissed as some sort of privilege seeking. Men need to take responsibility for the lives they create.

    • James1 says:

      02:22pm | 25/02/13

      wakeuppls, my point was that we have no reliable data on illegitimacy before the advent of paternity tests, so we cannot say with any certainty what the pre-civil rights legitimacy rates were.  Thus, your point, while perhaps well intended, is not backed up by any real data and is thus an assertion lacking evidence or any empirical support.

    • Alfie says:

      07:54am | 25/02/13

      Alf’s tip of the day:
      Screwing around (with or without permission) generally won’t ‘fix’ a relationship.

    • Jamo says:

      08:15am | 25/02/13

      Good advice, and remember, it doesn’t matter who does it, it’s always the blokes fault, go figure

    • Jim Moriarty says:

      08:35am | 25/02/13

      @Jamo

      It’s only the bloke’s fault if the bloke was the one that strayed.

    • Jamo says:

      08:49am | 25/02/13

      Sorry Jim, often is trotted out the old chestnut that the bloke wasn’t ‘meeting her needs’. When relationships break down, it’s never women’s fault whether infidelity is involved or not. Tell me you’ve met a divorced woman that thinks the marriage break down had anything to do with her. Do they really exist ?

    • Modern Primitive says:

      08:59am | 25/02/13

      Nah, it’s always the bloke’s fault.

    • PJ says:

      09:03am | 25/02/13

      Marriage is not important. its a sacriment and God does not exist for many, including our leaders. It shouldn’t matter that Wilson, Emerson and Mathieson were married men, in some instances with kids.
      What’s important is your getting what you want in terms of relationships with the opposite sex. And if it helps your career as well then go get it girl.

    • Tigger says:

      09:08am | 25/02/13

      @Jim

      Umm, no. If the woman strayed it still the bloke’s fault because he neglected her (or insert other gripe here) and she was driven to find solace elsewhere through no fault of her own.

    • Shane* says:

      09:16am | 25/02/13

      Wrong Jim,

      If she strays, it’s because he didn’t pay enough attention to her, and she found solace and passion elsewhere.

      If he strays, it’s because he’s a lying sack of crap who couldn’t keep it in his pants.

    • Jim Moriarty says:

      09:54am | 25/02/13

      @Jamo

      I don’t really know any divorced women… I do see a lot of blame handed to the ‘Other Woman’, though.

      Personally, I think the one who cheats is to blame, and it doesn’t matter which gender they are.

    • Rose says:

      09:58am | 25/02/13

      Wow, you blokes really do enjoy a pity party don’t you. I have never met any divorced person, male or female, who voluntarily accepts their full share of responsibility for the relationship breakdown. You guys just listen to what ‘proves’ your point and block the rest out!!

    • Modern Primitive says:

      10:36am | 25/02/13

      Rose, which sex files for divorce more often than the other?

    • Jamo says:

      11:15am | 25/02/13

      @Jim, I agree that if it’s infidelity then the cheater is to blame, I just don’t think it is portrayed that way. As an example, have you ever heard of a woman to lose her job or lively hood or being publicly shamed for having an affair. That says enough to support what I and quite a few other people have said.
      @ rose, sometimes you have to go to extremes to illustrate a point. People do it all the time. Just have a look at how many biased, lop sided surveys and statistics used by the femmos in order to show how women are always the ones who are being victimized. Feminist ideology is not about equality at all, it’s about ‘advancing’ women at the expense of everyone else. This is about the only place you hear men having a bit of a go, as we don’t have spokesman for men on this and spokesman for men on that and we don’t have men’s mags that basically run women down all the time. It’s feminist that has the distorted one sided view on everything, blokes just call it how it is and then ‘head for the hills’ lmao
      And yes men’s magazines are full of gorgeous sexy beautiful women, and aren’t they lovely

    • Rose says:

      11:25am | 25/02/13

      MP, what has that to do with anything? The person who lodges the application for divorce is not necessarily the person who’s actions caused the relationship to break down, it just indicates who wanted the separation formalized and the marriage legally dissolved.
      In all divorces I have seen I would suggest that in most, both parties share the responsibility for the relationship not working. ,

    • PsychoHyena says:

      12:23pm | 25/02/13

      @Rose, I will agree that often neither side takes responsibility, however the topic here was infidelity and that if the man cheats it’s considered the man’s fault and if the woman cheats it’s considered the man’s fault.

      There was an article on news.com.au about a website devoted to providing a way for people looking to cheat to hook up and all the women interviewed for it were blaming their husbands and being applauded for it.

    • Kerryn says:

      12:53pm | 25/02/13

      I willingly take some of the blame for what happened between me and my ex.  At the end of the day though it really wasn’t anyone’s “fault”, it was just an unfortunate case of not being compatible with him and his family.

      Live and learn.

    • v says:

      01:15pm | 25/02/13

      To me Modern Primitive, you should also look at the excuses given by women for the divorce. In short the responses can be grouped into two buckets. 1,I am not responsible for my own happiness and he must psychically understand my wants at any moment in time and make me happy and fulfilled. 2, me, me, me, me, me, never refuse me, me, me.

    • Modern Shackles. says:

      01:30pm | 25/02/13

      @V, no 3: I promise to love you and honour you, until this glowing feeling wears off and I get bored of you.

    • Jamo says:

      02:05pm | 25/02/13

      @ keryn
      We do live and learn and I hope you have or do find a bloke (or girl) you are compatible with. I said before about people not putting enough thought into marriage. Not having a crack at you because it happens alot. I think it was marley that said too much thought went into to marriage and encouraged Mahhrat to just jump right in on that basis. Sorry Marley but Keryn is an example of your bad advice. All good and well if we’re all living in a fairy tale, but we’re not

    • Rose says:

      02:29pm | 25/02/13

      No Jamo, you don’t need to go to extremes to illustrate a point, that’s what causes the gender wars. Besides which, men have plenty of forums in which to air their grievances, in fact I hear them bitching about their wives all the bloody time (no more or less than the reverse).
      Feminism IS about equality for all, it’s just that some women, a minority, who mistakenly consider themselves to be feminists, are actually highjacking some of the discussion because of their own bitterness and spite, in exactly the way some men do the same with their extreme MRA crap.
      The only way to approach this is with a balanced open minded frame of mind, understanding that every single relationship has it’s own unique dynamics that make it succeed or fail and that every single person within a relationship has to accept that they play a significant part of the success or failure of their relationship.
      Making excuses for people along gender lines is making the problem worse, not better!

    • Jack says:

      02:43pm | 25/02/13

      Modern Shackles.’@V, no 3: I promise to love you and honour you, until this glowing feeling wears off and I get bored of you’ ........... and I have spent all of your money and your base income is not now enough for my whims (been there).

    • Jamo says:

      03:07pm | 25/02/13

      @rose, I’m sorry but sometimes you have to go to extremes to make a point. I will say in theory I agree with you and that would be all good if we lived in fairy land. Il be extreme to make a point. The education system has roughly 1 make teacher in every 6. In the last twenty years as this statistic has unfolded girls grades have been improving and boys have been getting worse. You might think its just because girls are smarter. It’s no coincidence and since uni entry is based around these grades and women now hold 60 % of uni gradaute qualifications, that means that statistically our daughters have a 50% better chance of getting into university than our sons. If this situation was reversed we would hear about it every single day by all the spokeswomen for women and blah blah blah. It would be on the front page of every newspaper in the country every single day. Sorry to ‘stretch’ it but who is speaking up for the rights of our boys to have a fair crack at an education ? No one that’s who because men DO NOT have adequate places to whinge and whine about how we are getting robbed of opportunity. To further this point, and il be ‘extreme’ again, feminists want to assume that all women want careers, but the truth is alot of women start out that way, then have kids and to some degree remove themselves from the workforce, yes that’s right some of them entirely if their man has enough money, taking their qualifications with them. Ever heard of the skills shortage ? So empowering and educating women at the expense of education for males is not necessarily a good thing for the country. If you want to be so naive to believe that things are really equal, and partly because of what feminism has been trying to achieve you are a ignorant fool. Now before you throw a heap of theoretical crap at me, name one ‘spokesperson’ for men’s affairs. Good luck because there aren’t any. You seriously need to put some thought into what equality rose, ever wonder why blokes, and probably women walk away from you every time you open your mouth ? There is a reason for it. Is that extreme enough to make my point. I bet you don’t get it smile))))

    • Jamo says:

      05:07pm | 25/02/13

      @rose

      Found the name of a spokesperson for men yet ?
      Just to add, you said that hiding behind gender doesn’t help anyone and only causes arguments. That is exactly what Julie bishop, who happens to be female just in case you weren’t aware, has accused our prime minister of doing, who also has to be female. Hiding behind gender to escape legitimate criticism as Julie bishop said. Now to stretch it again, if feminism has its way, and at some stage women hold all the powerful decision making positions (of course a great achievement fir women thst would be and really show how good they are) and all of these women do the same, that is hide behind gender to escape criticism, who the bloody hell will take responsibility for anything? Any idea ? It’s amazing that Gillard and her supporters think she has nothing to do with the state we are in. You said you hear blokes whinging about their wives. Whoop de do, ever had a relationship with a woman ? Long ago it was made clear to men that we never have the right to speak on behalf of women, so don’t go speaking for men. We know what is going on rose, let blokes look after our affairs (pardon the pun) we can speak for ourselves thanks very much. And you are one woman I’m disagreeing with so before you do what most femmos do and label me a woman hater, think that I’m one man, and therefore that would make you a man hater, ball breaker, nag bag (could put in more). So there is a bit of blunt male logic for you rose. Back to fairy land with you

    • Jumo says:

      08:52am | 25/02/13

      Jim you need to learn how to detect sarcasm.

    • Jim Moriarty says:

      10:54am | 25/02/13

      @Jumo

      It’s hard to detect sarcasm when people on this site post stuff like that seriously. Look at all the replied you got agreeing with you!

    • Jamo says:

      11:51am | 25/02/13

      What’s does that tell you Jim ?

    • Jim Moriarty says:

      12:45pm | 25/02/13

      That I hold men and women to the same standards in relationships, and the breakdown thereof?

    • Jamo says:

      01:11pm | 25/02/13

      @Jim

      So you hold women and men equal etc etc etc based on what people are saying in their posts. That makes sense, not. You may, and I do too, but the point is the portrayal is completely one sided. That’s what people are saying. If it is infidelity as an example, the bloke does it because he can’t keep his dick in his pants and if the shiela does it, it’s because the good for nothin bloke was neglecting her. You can’t honestly say you haven’t experienced this distortion Jim. You see things fairly, well done mate big pay on the back for you, but you can’t argue with alot of what iPad been said surely

    • Jim Moriarty says:

      01:33pm | 25/02/13

      @Jumo

      I can honestly say I’ve experienced or come across this when it comes to cheating.

      If someone in our friends group was found out to be cheating, the cheater would be the one reviled, no matter what their gender.

      I have never come across this and am honestly bamboozled.

    • difficult lemon says:

      01:44pm | 25/02/13

      Re sarcasm. Why resort to it? It is widely, snd rightly,  referred to as the lowest form of wit.And as the internet demonstrably shows extremely hard to detect.

    • Freddo says:

      09:17am | 25/02/13

      After 40 years, I have found that the way to make your marriage last is
      Don’t get caught
      followed by two word “Yes, dear”.

    • Mark says:

      09:17am | 25/02/13

      I don’t know if it resonates beyond my experience, but I find that when reflecting in hindsight, there is always a point in which one person within the relationship is trying to manufacture the closeness and one is trying to relive the past happiness. There is a point where a relationship can not get superficially better, and usually this is where they begin to fall apart.

      The key to happiness, it would seem to me, is to find new things you love about the other person all the time. You can’t continue to love the same things forever and expect that to maintain the situation for the better.

    • Gregg says:

      09:27am | 25/02/13

      Marriage is always going to be different things to different people and sometimes people will either just grow too far apart that they cannot visualise marriage like the weather rather than global warming.

      Just like life in general and the weather, always changing, many good days and some pretty shitty, so a marriage can be and just like global warming, you do not need to believe that things are just going to get worse or if it is, then it’s time to do something about it.

      And sure, where there is two people, that just has potential for complicating the future and perhaps adding to the wedge and distancing effect or likewise just needing a different effort to make the most of what you have.

    • Modern Primitive says:

      10:03am | 25/02/13

      Marriage seems like a lot of hard work for too little reward.

    • Tim the Toolman says:

      11:12am | 25/02/13

      It doesn’t have to be.  My marriage isn’t hard work (well, it probably is for my wife, dealing with me), and it’s very rewarding.  Wouldn’t change it for anything.

    • Modern primitive says:

      11:34am | 25/02/13

      Maybe it’s alright for you, but the overwhelming theme I get from men older than me and who are married for anything more than 5-10 years is that it’s a bit of a drag.

    • James1 says:

      12:13pm | 25/02/13

      I don’t know if I’m older than you (I’m 30), but I have been married for ten years and don’t find it a drag.  Much like Tim, I wouldn’t change it for the world.

    • Tubesteak says:

      01:01pm | 25/02/13

      MP
      Amen to that. Far more effort and hassle than it’s worth. I’m older than both of you and most of my mates are married. What they say (and what they have to do) makes my mind boggle. I’m happy to stay single. I’ll only get married if the wife guarantees no nagging/whining/histrionics, sex on tap and all my possessions are locked up in a trust that’s solely in my name and if she wants to walk away she takes only what she earned with her own money.

    • Modern Primitive says:

      01:43pm | 25/02/13

      I just seriously can’t see myself being tied down to the same person for the rest of my life. We aren’t wired to be with one person till the end of time and to enter into a legally binding contract to do just that seems like madness to me.

      Sure, there’s a few men who are happy with their wives, but the vast majority I know are little more than trained housepets.

      And to think that on top of all the arguing, jumping through hoops and making her haaaaapy that there’s still no guarantee of even semi regular, once a week sex?

      Pass.

    • Kika says:

      01:49pm | 25/02/13

      And that’s why Tubesteak you will never be married.

    • James1 says:

      02:17pm | 25/02/13

      MP, it sounds like the women in your circle of friends make horrible wives.  What kind of human marries someone to argue with them, complain constantly and withhold sex?  Where do they meet these women, might I ask?

      Similarly, where do you meet these drama queens, Tubesteak?  Are there really so few dignified women left?  Or is your sample skewed because you are mostly meeting entitled 30-something victims of the apex fallacy in bars and nightclubs?  You are ultimately right about effort, as well.  If it takes effort to be around a person, then you should not marry them. 

      The more I hear about the world outside my home and the people in it, the more I despair for the future of mankind.  However, as an amateur anthropologist, I have a strong desire to know more, so please treat my questions as genuine attempts to learn more, gentlemen.

    • Debbie says:

      02:30pm | 25/02/13

      Some people are not suited to marriage and from experience the ones most definitely not suited are the greedy and self centred. For the rest of us marriage is what you (and your spouse) make it.

    • Modern Primitive says:

      02:32pm | 25/02/13

      Kika, you say that like it’s a bad thing. It’s not as big an end of the world scenario for men as it is for women if we make it through life unwed.

    • chris says:

      02:33pm | 25/02/13

      True Kika and he will be a happier man for it.

    • Modern Primitive says:

      02:43pm | 25/02/13

      James, this isn’t my circle of friends, this is blokes 10-30 years older than me. There’s a rather large amount of them that either think marriage is a bit of a shit deal, or have been through the divorce process and come out bitter and jaded.

      Hell, just go to any westfield shopping centre in the country and have a look at the poor, jaded saps being dragged through the shops by their wives. Do they look happy? (rhetorical.)

      A few of my friends married early (like, 21 and 22). They seem to like it now, but we’ll see in ten years time.

      All in all, from where I sit, it looks like a bit of a shit deal.

    • Greg A says:

      02:46pm | 25/02/13

      ‘greedy and self centred’, Debbie, read not prepare to be continually hammered with double standards and irrationality.

    • James1 says:

      02:55pm | 25/02/13

      Thanks anyway MP.  I’m assuming from your comment that the women in your group don’t resemble this stereotype, and I really don’t have anyone like that in my circle of friends, but I hear stories like yours and Tubesteak’s a lot, and wonder where on earth these women are.  Do normal women become monsters when the get married?  Do men in their early to mid 30s like to complain about their wives?

      Hopefully Tubesteak can shed some light on this for me.

    • Modern primitive says:

      03:50pm | 25/02/13

      @ James, some of them do, but they’re girlfriends for now, possibly future wives. I know more than a few blokes wrapped round the finger of their missus.

    • yankee doodle dandy says:

      11:15am | 25/02/13

      That girl, the blonde in the picture, is from brighton beach, just like the sign down there at the beach in Vic, with the man’s d ..ehm.. doodle.I’d bet ya, she is trying to hang on to something, anything, him or just any old doodle will do.

    • Anonymous says:

      11:48am | 25/02/13

      Marriage is hard and we are stupid enough to make it harder than it needs to be. I have been a total idiot… at 45 after 20 years I got into the pants of a gorgeous 25 years old… I was just stupid, turned my brain off… and couldn’t believe I was so lucky. Got away with it for almost a year including holidays away etc.
      Now the wife and I are going to marriage counselling twice a week, I am also going to a shrink twice a week. The wife is on anti depressants, I am just depressed and refusing to take drugs. I have a sore back as I am sleeping on a couch and have not had any intimate contact with anyone except the odd cuddle with the kids for ages and ages. Plus the girlfriend is upset and missing me now the relationship has ended so suddenly. I have had to just cut her off completely and just have three sad text messages I can’t respond to.
      what I really want to do is run away and do a St Simeon and hide on a pillar and just be a hermit for the rest of my life. But, at the same time I am responsible and just have to tough it out.
      One of the issues is there is so much pressure around marriage. I am certain my wife wants to just leave - she is only sticking around and demanding we work this through because we are married and the shame of separation is not something she can face - not just shame for her but the kids also. I also feel guilty as hell and do remember my (now broken) oath at the altar. Plus I am terrified of losing the kids.
      It is all very well say that we should keep our love fresh by playing in the grass… but when you are in your 40s rolling in the grass is not that much fun… even if you are still fit and active (I still play AFL on weekends and train so I am not a fatso). You need something more than that - stuffed if I know what it is. what I do know is that when you have young kids you focus on them completely. You are working hard at work and at home. Babysitters cost a fortune so when you do go out it ends up being separate (one parent stays home to do the parenting). Yes, it would be great to go away for a weekend or even just a night together… but it is just not possible to do that often because a weekend away can cost a couple of hundred or more just in babysitting.  At the same time you are wanting to pay down the mortgage… Yes you can sit out the back yard and have a bottle of wine (which we always have tried to do) but you are always so stuffed plus the kids wake early so you become hangover adverse and anyway, all you do is talk about the kids or stuff from work because that is what you are focused on.
      when we went to our first marriage counselling in the midst of the wreckage we realised we hadn’t actually talked to each other about ‘us’ for 10 years.
      So look, I agree with the idea that marriage can be wonderful - I have had a great one for a long time… but the road to ruin is paved with good intentions and with all the pressure of kids and costs and careers it is very very tough and it is all too easy to lose your way like I stupidly did.
      I think more than having fun… the only way to survive is to be honest about the bad stuff not just the good stuff. I should have spoken to my wife back when I first started feeling attracted to this girl… but I decided not to rock the boat. The secrets that I kept started way way before any sexual impropriety commenced. I think I started keeping secrets the moment I stopped thinking of her as my young wonderful lover and bride and started thinking of her and the first baby as my responsibility. I think I stopped relating to her as an equal partner and started trying to ‘manage’ her as if I was the responsible partner. This was the first great breach of trust and it just gained momentum from that point on.

    • Kika says:

      12:39pm | 25/02/13

      That sounds awful… but I think you should have talked to the girlfriend first about your wife first, not the other way around.

      You don’t have family or friends who can mind the kids?

      Or you can just do what my parents did - have your fun, drink, get a hangover and let the kids deal with their hangover parents the next day. My parents were the type of parents which said “Kids conform to your life, not the other way around”. Not always the best advice, but sometimes I think you need to put yourself first, sometimes.

    • Wayne Kerr says:

      01:13pm | 25/02/13

      I’ve been through something similar, minus the having the affair, but at age 45 I realised I didn’t love my then wife anymore. She wanted to go to counselling, I didn’t. I didn’t see the point.  For me it was over..  I emotionally destroyed her which is something I didn’t want to do and which I will always feel bad about.  In saying that I don’t regret leaving because I wasn’t happy and that would have made things worse in the long run.

      It was hard, I was scared of losing the kids.  I was worried about my financial future etc.  Yes I gave the ex the house so the kids would have a roof over their head.  I still have a good relationship with my kids and see them very often.

      It has cost me a lot of friendships because I was the callous bastard that left her.  However, I wouldn’t change it. I found somebody new and am happily married and a lot happier in my life than I was before.

      If you have been sleeping on the couch for a long time, I think it’s time to call it a day so both of you can get on with your life. No amount of counselling is going to help IMHO.

    • Greg A says:

      12:23pm | 25/02/13

      ‘He’s right. Last month, in a nutso attempt at marriage enrichment I’d suggested we spend the evenings talking or planning imaginary holidays’, yeah, many men know this trap. The IMAGINARY plans that are suddenly declared to have been a promised action two to three weeks’ after the event and you are crucified for not delivering them.

    • SAm says:

      02:06pm | 25/02/13

      I cannot tell you how many times this trap has caught me. Now she gets bitter when I refuse to talk of anything that is years off, or just fantasy, cause she’ll take it for some sort of promise to be fulfilled in the near future

    • Greg A says:

      02:55pm | 25/02/13

      I learnt this the hard way. For some reason hypothetical or imaginary is ignored when it suits them at a later date and as we know, you are not allowed to point out the know context of the initial discussion without being hammered harder. I think my mate hade life sussed out when he said that unless you want children, NEVER EVER marry.

    • Kika says:

      12:26pm | 25/02/13

      I totally agree with Angela. You need to have fun with each other. You need to enjoy each others company. My mantra is this because eventually looks fade but if you can enjoy each other’s company and still find it fun to be with each other then you’ll probably make it.

      With my ex (not married by living together - no kids) I realised that I no longer ‘liked’ him and life was a chore just staying together so I left before we did something stupid like wasting our youth (I was 22 in a 9 year relationship) by living like an old, unhappy, married couple. Best decision I ever made. I got my life back, was happy again and met a lovely man who I am now married to who enjoy the company of everyday and now we’re expecting our first child in 9 weeks and things couldn’t be better. And he makes me laugh all the time.

      Disgruntled, unhappy blokes = if you can make your girlfriends/wives laugh then you are on a good thing. Laughter is the golden goose when it comes to attracting and keeping women!

    • Pattem says:

      05:22pm | 25/02/13

      @Kika

      Laughter is a very specific satisfaction tool.

      We all need to find what tickles our partner’s fancy, then tickle it often.  It could be:

      A bunch of flowers;
      A kiss on the check when arriving home from work;
      A hug;
      Saying thank you for a yummy dinner;
      Doing the dishes after he/she cooks;
      Making the bed so he/she doesn’t have to;
      Not plonking down in front of the TV after work;
      Giving him/her a massage/foot rub…

      The list is infinite really, but the important part is taking the time and effort to learn that key thing (or things) that tickle(s) his/her fancy, and tickling it often.

    • Pax says:

      12:41pm | 25/02/13

      Marriage (and life in general) works when you eliminate wants and needs. Accept each moment and all who are in it. They are with us to help us grow in understanding and love.

      Give love unconditionally to all - without reserve or expectation.

    • Rose says:

      03:03pm | 25/02/13

      No, marriage works when you consider your spouse’s needs and wants to be as important as your own!

    • Modern Primitive says:

      03:42pm | 25/02/13

      Where do I find a woman like that?

    • ibast says:

      03:49pm | 25/02/13

      You can tell by a woman’s feet how she feels about you.

      If they are beside her ears, she really likes you.

    • PsychoHyena says:

      04:03pm | 25/02/13

      @Rose, that’s exactly what Pax said, remove wants and needs from the equation and take each day as it comes.

      You can never give the same level of importance to the needs and wants of both halves unless you remove those needs and wants from the equation.

    • Pattem says:

      04:19pm | 25/02/13

      @Rose

      ...or more important than your own.

      If you consider your spouse’s needs and wants to be as important as your own, how then do you ever reach a compromise?

      Good use of the comma, BTW!

    • Esteban says:

      06:58pm | 25/02/13

      Well, which of your friends would he sleep with?

 

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