Why is the weight debate full of so much hate?

bec says:

07:08am | 05/11/09

THANK YOU. When I was fifteen kilos heavier, I literally had men leaning out of cars to shout, sneer or insult me whenever I was going for a walk outside. Yes… the best way to encourage fat people to go outside and exercise is to creepily harass them while they do it and make them feel unsafe. PERFECT LOGIC!

Now I’m fitting within the healthy BMI limit again, nobody passes comment - but I still get pretty angry every time someone feels like they have to remark to me “oh, you look so healthy now!” I was healthier before, dumbass. I used to be able to ride my bike over 50km a day, and now I can’t.

danj says:

07:40am | 05/11/09

People in society are always going to judge others about something. If you’re fat, if you smoke, if you can play footy, what sort of car you drive, how well behaved your kids are, where you live, what colour hair you have etc. It must be human nature so I suppose we all just need to suck it up, stop feeling sorry for ourselves and get on with our lives.

Peter Thornton says:

07:42am | 05/11/09

I can’t stand the broad sweep society makes in assuming the easiest and fastest solution to problems arising from being overweight is to lay off the ham and drop and give them (society) 20.

We are a very sick species.

@BlokesLib says:

08:07am | 05/11/09

Real women have curves. The magazines etc. should butt out!

Matt says:

08:30am | 05/11/09

“For example, I personally enjoy both physical activity and vegetables. But there is one aspect of the obesity health debate that is often neglected — mental health.”

Best non sequitur ever.

Is this really what passes for cutting edge opinion these days?

It is good to see a young female journalist having a crack, but revisiting a worn out topic like this, and relying so heavily on generalisations from the experience of friends to typify the current social discourse on health is weak.

Here’s a tip: The BMI that you refer to as making you a “social pariah” (exaggerate much?) is one of those same indicators of health that you say should be focussed on later in the article.

If we are going to elevate the level of discourse in the “weight debate”, we need to recognise that body shape - expressed in many cases through elevated BMI - often correlates with health outcomes.

The “I love myself just the way I am” crowd is doing harm by defending body shape at the expense of health.

Nick says:

08:33am | 05/11/09

You are right, we should focus on indicators of health… weight is an indicator of health.

hoofman says:

08:36am | 05/11/09

Quite right, Matt 8:30am. Curvaceous and not emaciated is one thing, but obesity is bad for health and no amount of obese people trying to feel good about themselves can get around that. Above a certain level, fat is fat : to be disposed of and avoided.
Eat/drink less, move more. It’s the only way.

Old Clive says:

08:38am | 05/11/09

Ashlee I am afraid you are a victim of the present age. Fat and happy, skinny and miserable should almost be the present saying, Unfortuneate we can’t all be perfect like the people who pick on us for being the shape that we are, but I must say, it is a bit harder when you are older to carry the weight around,

iain forrest says:

09:02am | 05/11/09

Ashlee don’t sweat it I have been married 38 years to a buxom lass from the Yorkshire dales. I still love to watch her undress at night and in my view nothing beats a cuddling a girl with something to cuddle on a cold night.

ihmn says:

09:04am | 05/11/09

@Nick

Really?
In every single situation the girl who weighs 50kg is healthier than the one who weighs 75 or 80? The point is that broad statements about health are bullshit, as is the BMI. You cannot tell how healthy someone is by looking at them and that is the point that everyone of these articles try to make before the comments descend into fat shaming.

Joe says:

09:14am | 05/11/09

I agree that real men love curves. The stick thin model look is driven by homosexual designers who wouldn’t want to know what a sexy girl looks like. So no wonder their fashion and models aren’t that attractive.

Nick says:

09:28am | 05/11/09

@ihmn

Not at all… but being overweight or obese is almost always an indication of being unhealthy…. so lets not pretend otherwise.

ihmn says:

09:49am | 05/11/09

@Nick
As long as there is an almost, you cannot generalise. Which as I said is the point. The discussion is being overtaken by people hating on body image and hiding behind their concerns for the “fatty’s” health. Images on tv of people eating burgers and filming their muffin tops as they walk down the street are not an attempt to make people think about their health, they are used for ridicule.

Don’t get me wrong, I know there are extremely overweight, unhealthy people, but they are not sitting there thinking it is ok because there are plus sized models or body image committees encouraged them to embrace their “curves”.

Albie says:

09:55am | 05/11/09

No one who is overweight feels good about themselves, but it’s important that people realise not every fat person is a lazy lump who does nothing.
I am fat - obese according to the BMI. I am 172cm tall and 105kg. I exercise for an hour 3 times a week at the gym, ride to and from work, and usually go on a 2-3hr ride every weekend. I only eat three meals a day - I rarely snack in between and rarely eat sweets after tea. My one real weakness would be alcohol, but even there I do not binge, but rather enjoy a couple of glasses of wine with dinner.
Does this sound like a lazy fat person?
But all of the above doesn’t matter, because how I look tells people that I eat too much and don’t exercise. All you cynics out there… I hope that you are never subjected to the same ridicule when you are genuinely trying to meet society’s image, and have been for years.
Some things are just how you are, and you can’t change it. I just wish I’d realised this about 15 years ago.

jane says:

10:04am | 05/11/09

Hey all the dudes that posted here- I don’t think this author is saying that she doesn’t have a problem- she works out, she’s been told she was fat by since she was a child,  she gets it!  What she’s saying is that people’s judging of her, often without any reference to actually knowing her whatsoever makes it really hard to have the confidence to do anything let alone get fit!  This is about compassion and seeing overweight people as people who have been told they’re not good enough and effectively been bullied by popular media, for years.  How can we actually encourage people to feel better about themselves and see themselves as worth investing all the time, effort and positive energy that it takes to lose weight?

AFR says:

10:09am | 05/11/09

Joe, BIG difference between being curvy and fat. BTW, Indonesia’s a hot country, being a fatty there would get very uncomfortable.

Z says:

10:13am | 05/11/09

As a “larger lady” I know I would be classed as obese by my BMI, yet I still exercise at least 5-6 times a week including jogging, weights, boxing, and two sessions with personal trainers. In addition I regularly walk my dog - more exercise than most “normal sized” people I know.
I also have a healthy diet with only occasional treats - but definitely not sitting on my couch eating cream cakes or chips.
Yet like the author of this story only this week walking down the street I was abused by a guy passing me in the opposite direction “get out of my way fatty”.
All I ask is that people not make judgements.

Hopium says:

10:23am | 05/11/09

Another point is that some of us work ridiculous hours in an office, sitting on our butts for more than 5 days a week.
There needs to be a reset of work/study culture so that there is time to prepare meals or exercise.

Jade says:

10:28am | 05/11/09

I used to be overweight and it was absolutly discusting.  How can you feel good about having fat rolls everywhere and a lard ass? I never did so I lost 20kg and am now fairly thin. 

Being overweight is not nice to look at and the kids of obese people are more likely to be obese them selfs too which starts the whole cycle again.  I work with a couple and they are grossly overweight and there 3 year old child is also overweight for his age group, now this child will probaly grow up being ridiculed for his fat parents and his weight as well.  Something needs to be done about it, but not through taxes and crap the government is planning.  We need to go back to home cooked meals and fresh ingredients with out the preservitives and additives.

pooh says:

10:37am | 05/11/09

If you visit hospital wards you will discover that there are a lot of sick people who have healthy BMIs. It does not protect you from cancer, infection, heart disease etc. Someone who is fat can still be healthy, especially when compared to someone who is actually really sick. The people who pick on fat people just do it to make themselves feel better/superior. It’s no different from racism based on physical attributes. Also, if being overweight shortens your life… who cares? I have worked in aged care and I have seen people who are in their 80’s and 90’s with dementia and other problems which destroy any quality of life. Better to go with a quick heart attack at 70!

BT says:

10:38am | 05/11/09

Ashlee is most certainly correct, I’ve been witness to many men treat large/obese women with utter contempt for no reason other than they found them stereotypically unattractive. I’ve noticed that in general people are becoming more irritable and aggressive towards each other- especially in such competitive environments like Sydney. People are driving dangerously with complete disregard for pedestrians and running red lights without a care. People are rude and abrupt and will walk straight into you - assuming that they are superior to you and that you must give way to them. There seems to be so much hate and judgementalism out there. I guess this is just another sign of how stressed out people are becoming - at least that’s what I’m telling myself. Hopefully manners will come back in fashion…

Matt says:

10:39am | 05/11/09

@ihmn

“As long as there is an almost, you cannot generalise. Which as I said is the point. The discussion is being overtaken by people hating on body image and hiding behind their concerns for the “fatty’s” health. “

I love how you object to generalisations and then proceed to generalise about people “hating on” body image without even a hint of irony. You are now officially my favourite commenter on this post. You have also become my favourite argument against compulsory voting in Australia.

To all the people who have (and who will) come on here talking about how much they exercise: If you are maintaining your weight, then your caloric intake is equal to the caloric output from the energy consumed when you are exercising/existing. If you weigh 105 kilos and you are maintaining this weight level, then you either aren’t burning excess calories or you are eating more than you should.

This is not criticism. This is science.

Don’t get me wrong, I congratulate you for getting out there and doing something for your health. You are probably healthier than many of the alcoholic office drones that I work with every day.

But this doesn’t mean you are healthy.

Steve says:

10:42am | 05/11/09

Matt says:08:30am | 05/11/09 & Nick says:08:33am | 05/11/09
really sum up the point that I believe Ashlee is trying to make.  Their opinions are best kept to themselves and they should be thankful that they’re blessed with good enough health to maintain a level of fitness.  There are a myriad of reasons that people are overweight or obese and it doesn’t necessarilly relate to gluttonous behaviour or poor food choices. A debilitating illness or car accident trauma which isn’t immediately apparent (eg brain injury) can lead to a lifestyle that results in a poor BMI reading.  Frequently their body shape can result in depression and it becomes a vicious circle.  Ask GPs how many young women especially (and increasingly young men) front up them and are diagnosed as depressed emanating from poor self-esteem as a result of their body shape. In addition, I think statistics will bear out that young female victims of sexual assault have poor self-esteem and subconciously overeat as a means of
making themselves less attractive.  Yes, there are many people who do overeat and could do with losing weight and making healthier lifestyle choices but since when have people in society been given the right to pass judgement on other people.

Mr Pastry says:

10:45am | 05/11/09

If you put half the effort into personal health as you appear to in your impressive young career, you may find the kilos just drop off.  Health and fitness is not a web site or a gym membership, it is real world and requires sacrifice and effort something that is not understood by many.  It is your choice where your time and effort goes but don’t whinge if you only focus on one.

Evie says:

10:46am | 05/11/09

@matt: funny, if it’s such a worn out old opinion why did you jump to write so much on it? your argument might have more strength if you weren’t so condescending.

A says:

10:46am | 05/11/09

Heres an idea, stop seeking the approval of others. If a random individual says something, anything and that person is not someone you care deeply about why even listen? If it does hurt maybe you yourself know, deep down, the comment was touching the truth. And if you feel so agrieved by the images in the media,(read magazines) don’t buy them. Body image is not the responsibility of society. Its the sole domain of the owner of the body

JaneAgatha says:

10:46am | 05/11/09

I agree it’s wrong and an intrusion to pass judgment on people who are overweight. Obesity is not a moral issue. The appetite signals are unconscious and are geared to maintaining a person’s current weight. Overweight people simply need to eat more to run their large bodies.

I’ve been bordering on obese myself in the recent past and I know from experince that there’s more to being fat than shape discrimination. Being overweight is a form of physical handicap and not a state in which anyone can feel truly well, nor be truly well. There are many health and death risks, including to mental function due to insulin resistance. Human obesity is also an uncessary and costly burden on the environment that is threatening the survival of our own and many other species.

Overweight is such a trial on so many fronts. There are so many arguments against it and so many benefits arise from being slimmer that this can provide the motivation needed to lose it.  However losing is not so easy nor is maintaining the loss.

Research shows that the successful losers do it as part of a long term diet and exercise program. Regaining the weight is more the rule than the exception. Maintaining the loss requires continuuing to with a changed low calorie diet (low fat and low carb) and keeping up with the vigorous regular exercise, at least one hour daily.

In our overfed, sedentary, consumerist and self-indulgent society gaining weight remains a constant risk that requires constant vigilance and discipline. For many people weight loss will remain elusive no doubt to their regret. That is because, whether they are able to admit it publicly or not, most people would rather be slim if they had the choice and also the means to achieve it.

David says:

10:51am | 05/11/09

I am overweight and always have been . I am 74 and active and have a healthy diet . Also a retired GP with 35 yrs in the game .
I have seen the ‘’ weight loss game ‘’ grow into a multibillion dollar industry over the years and it’s mainly bullshit because nothing works . The entrepreneurs are making fortunes out of others misery ! They have no liability .
True , there are some people who are fat from purposely overeating and not exercising and there a lot of others who have a genetic or metabolic malfunction and it is ‘’ the nature of the beast ‘’ . These poor buggers are lumped in with the ignorant obese and they become depressed , which is not good .
There a a lot of healthy overweight depressed people out there .
Obesity is now a political money making scam .
Stick to a good empathetic GP , if you can find one and follow his or hers advice .

IMHO says:

10:51am | 05/11/09

There’s plenty of evidence that it’s not just about weight and BMI but about health and fitness. There are plenty of thin folk out there who are very unhealthy. I guess my point is that weight “per se” is only one of a number of markers that point to an unhealthy lifestyle, but does not correlate in every case.

The main point of the article is of course about human prejudice. Whilst the tendency to make generalisations about the things we see was helpful in an evolutionary sense, the human journey has been about overcoming our baser instincts to mock and prejudge and form tribes.

All those yobbos hanging out of cars making comments about someone’s appearance demonstrate a development arrested not only in their own adolescence, but in the adolescence of the human race in general.

km says:

11:18am | 05/11/09

@iain forrest - what a beautiful comment.. nice to such sweet sentiments from nice men out there :o)

Sandra VE says:

11:24am | 05/11/09

“Real women have curves” Oh I see. So a woman without “curves” is not a “real woman”. What an imposter! Let’s round up those thin chickies and charge them with fraud. They all are thin on purpose yanno. They all have eating disorders.  They do it with the sole intention of undermining the self-esteem of fatties. *rolls eyes*

As a woman, I am all for body acceptance regardless of size, but as a small sized woman, I am I the only one who is more than a bit annoyed by this “curvy” euphamism? Curvy means the waist is small in proportion to the breast and hip. If you (generic)  are a big lady with a discernable waist, then yes, you can claim the title “curvy”. I have 23 inch waist and a 34 inch hips. I am small but does that not make me “curvy” too? 

“Curvy” as a euphamism for plus-sized women is really a twisted insult. What is wrong with being called what it is; fat. There I have said it. Fat. Be fat and be proud rather than concealing fatness with some PC/socially acceptable doube-speak.

To suggest that thin or small women are not “real women” is little more than shifting the focus of discrimination. “I agree that real men love curves.” says one poster. Can you explain why should women have to conform that something men supposedly love?  To assert that bigger is better does little more than frame a woman’s identity being linked to her dress size and body shape and her sexual appeal to men. It is the same old sexist wolf in sheep’s clothing.

Immature Nation says:

11:54am | 05/11/09

Most of you seem to have missed the point of Ashlee’s article.  She is pointing out the bad manners of so many people in our country.  Her weight is none of the business of most of the people she encounters every day - and its not the business of commentators on this site either.  I was recently ridiculed regarding my weight by four young men driving past me in a country town.  I was embarrassed but my wife was furious - and she was right to be.  When will Australians learn and practice better manners?

David C says:

11:56am | 05/11/09

Launched as the world’s largest epidemiological study of BMI and life expectancies, which followed 1.8 million Norwegians for four decades, the Norway Study found that the most morbidly obese women with BMIs of 40 or above reduce their life expectancy about as much as “ideal” weight women who are light smokers. “However even these extremely obese women still have a longer life expectancy than normal-weight men,” said Ernsberger.

Full article here

http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2007/02/when-scares-become-deadly-weighing.html

H says:

11:59am | 05/11/09

@danj. Fair comment mate…it does seem in our current society you are criticised no matter which way you turn. If you like to read you are a nerd and a snob, if you play sports instead you are a jock. If your in a for-profit job your a greedy capatilst and if your in charity work your a bleeding heart. Perhaps the hate problem runs deeply through our society.

penbo says:

12:05pm | 05/11/09

I’d like to see a photo of any of the blokes who’ve made narky comments about Ashlee’s piece - I’m sure they all look exactly like George Clooney, maybe even hotter. Great piece Ash, and a brave one.

Michelle says:

12:10pm | 05/11/09

Thank you for shining some light on this issue. This is the classic - don’t judge a book by its cover issue which people commenting don’t seem to get. The point here is not the ‘obesity epidemic’ but rather where the line should be drawn in people’s actions and behaviours. Disparaging remarks are inappropriate. What good do they serve? Comments made to ‘fat’ people are more likely to result in negative actions than positive ones. How many people struggle with mental illness as a result of comments made about their physical appearance? Calling someone a ‘fatty’ is more likely to end with the person suffering an eating disorder than them becoming a fit and healthy athlete. People’s attitudes need to change. How many people are overweight because of hormonal problems? And how many so called ‘obese’ people are actually fit and muscly. Many women who are ‘obese’ on the BMI scale have great physical strength due to muscle strength. I have had my fair share of criticism for being overweight from family and from strangers. I have an active lifestyle and a balanced diet. I’ve experienced the surprise in ‘pretty girls’ faces when they’ve actually seen my legs and said ‘Wow you’re legs are all muscle’ - just because a person doesn’t show every inch of their body - don’t assume they are fat! I do agree with comments about people taking responsibility but it is naive to think that the BMI is completely accurate. The Dietitician’s Assoc of Australia says:
“BMI should only be used as a guide to your health. There are certain groups of the population where BMI is not a good indicator of health. These include:
·      Muscular people (such as athletes)
·      Some ethnic groups
·      Infants, children and adolescents
One reason for this is that BMI does not distinguish between body fat and muscle mass. If you have a higher muscle mass, you may have a higher BMI ? but this may not mean you are at a greater risk of disease. In determining your risk, it’s useful to consider other measures (such as your waist to hip ratio, and your body shape) along with your BMI.”
But remember the point of the article was about societies attitudes. Lets ditch the negativity and be more encouraging.
I take heart that curvy women are applauded in some cultures. In some places it is considered a compliment for a woman to be called ‘fat’.

LOL says:

12:21pm | 05/11/09

It’s interesting that commenter Mr Pastry says:

“If you put half the effort into personal health as you appear to in your impressive young career, you may find the kilos just drop off.”

LOL. So earning an income is not important then?  Its far better to commit oneself to slaving at the gym to meet body ideals that may be impossible for certain body types to attain anyway?  This is why we have a problem.  Some people in this world are meant to be fitness instructors.  Not everybody.  You can’t place the same expectations across the whole population, and that’s what things like the BMI etc do.  It’s supposed to be a guide, but nobody except a doctor can really measure health.  It especially cannot be measured by some random person in the street passing comment.

Sc says:

12:27pm | 05/11/09

To Matt… Your calories in/calories out is overly simplistic.  Some diseases (PCOS anyone?) and also medications (Mirtazapine?) can interfere with metabolism and drastically affect weight.  Weight and fitness are also not necessarily correlated.

A…The other side to the argument that you should not let people’s comments and opinions bother you is that people should not be making those comments.  I think this is what the author was trying to get at.  If it’s no longer acceptable to walk down the street and make racist comments towards someone, why is it acceptable to make comments on other aspects of their appearance??

Shama says:

12:33pm | 05/11/09

People are always commenting on each other.  One of the things about being an adult is not caring too much and recognising the comments as thoughtless, stupid and to be ignored.  We need to stop feeling victimised about being fat or feel the need to defend it-surely one can’t lose self-esteem because some drunk bloke yelled out fatty! I am chubby but I can’t say it’s played a role in any way in my perception of myself. 

As for BMI, how can it be taken as an indicator of health? People come in different shapes and sizes and as that junk food science link shows there is little link between fatness and disease.  All of us know perfectly healthy looking people who have fallen ill and people categorised as “obese” who live a long life, thank you. Julia Child after all was rather porky but managed to reach her 90s.  I am sure her BMI was pretty much out of whack.

Matt says:

12:42pm | 05/11/09

@Evie - Sorry you think I am being condescending, but glad you see the strength of my argument.

Despite what some commenters have said this post is not just about how some people can be loathsome jerks at times and this is hurtful to those people who are affected by it. If that were it, I think most people would agree.

As far as I can tell, the post (which reads like it should start with the phrase: “Dear Diary”) goes further by arguing that public health discourse and health policy goals should be realigned so that BMI/body shape as an indicator of susceptability to ill health is ignored.

This is madness.

It makes as much sense as ignoring drink driving as an indicator of road fatalities, because not all drink drivers are involved in road fatalities, or ignoring smoking as an indicator of susceptability to lung cancer, because not all smokers die from lung cancer.

You can’t have a sensible public health discourse by ignoring key indicators of ill health, even if such indicators don’t always mean poor health wheerever they are present.

@ Steve & @ penbo

Nice ad hominems boys. Way to go. Easy to lower the tone if you know what you are doing.

iansand says:

12:58pm | 05/11/09

At least we have established the accuracy of the headline.

ihmn says:

01:02pm | 05/11/09

@Matt

Well gosh thanks. But how is it a generalisation when I said it is being “overtaken” as in more people are fat shaming than they are accepting different body shapes as natural? And as to your snark on compulsory voting, I would still vote Jackass, and even though I disagree with your opinion I would never presume to be more intelligent than you and wish away your democratic right.

Lenny J says:

01:04pm | 05/11/09

To all those people who just caan’t seem not to interfere in other’s lives for no good reason that just to be sanctimonius busybodies, butt out!
I applaud Ashlee’s courage and her right to decide for herself who she is and what she does with her life and that includes her own body.
For those of us who think they have a right to tell any of us what is an acceptable body shape, weight, size, food intake, exercise quotient, take a running leap and mind your own business. Really, mind your own damn business!
The next time someone yells at you for being you I would suggest the following. Yell some abuse back (learn some if you need to), throw something hard at them or hit them if they are close enough. Any kind of weapon will do. it will do wonders for your self esteem and make the big mouths think twice.
There is just too much plain overstepping the boundaries. If you have an opinion, no matter how poorly thought out it is, as is evidenced by some of these blogs, keep it to yourself.
By the way, it is none of your business if I am underweight, overweight or apparently normal weight. My son who is very tall, muscular, quite lean and aerobically very fit, is apparently at the high end bordering on obese according to BMI numbers. BMI is just another guide (now being seriously questioned as actually relevant by some scientists)
Go Ashlee! You get my vote girl.

Anna says:

02:32pm | 05/11/09

Sc -
No disease or medication can defeat the laws of thermodynamics - energy in, energy out - metabolism may slow, but you still can’t eat less energy than you use and not lose weight. Sure, it is easier for some people to lose weight - but that doesn’t mean it isn’t possible for others. That sort of defeatist “metabolic problems prevent me from losing weight” ideas are only bad for people. For me, obesity isn’t about life expectancy - it’s about quality of life and maintaining it. When a person is overweight they increase their risk for heart attack, stroke, decreased fertility and birth defects, etc, all which they will probably get treated for with some money coming from the public - and the people close to them suffer as well. Why should I exercise and keep to a diet to maintain and lose weight when I gain it so that you can’t? That’s where the real ire comes from - people see a double standard.

steve says:

02:39pm | 05/11/09

@Matt - nice ad hominems?  Are you trying to say I am attacking the man (or messenger ie you) rather than the subject matter?  I attacked (if that is not too strong a word in this instance) what you were saying rather than you as a person I would’ve thought.  You obviously don’t suffer a weight problem yourself ( I don’t either) but I’m close to some one who does and disparaging remarks from people do nothing for their self-esteem and rather than help them, make more of them feel more helpless.  Your apparent attitude suggests that you’d tell a depressed person to just get over it…..........life frequently ain’t that easy for a lot of people.  BTW if you respond further, throw in a further bit of Latin…..non sequitur and ad hominems…...I’ve learnt something today at least;o)

Liz says:

02:42pm | 05/11/09

BMI is rubbish and has been shown to be.It is damaging kids and their parents and causing esteem problems because some ‘wellmeaning’ but misinformed health professional thinks they know best but clearly know nothing about body types and the differences.
My daughter is fit, active and a lean shape.She was told all her adolescence she was anorexic.Fortunatelyy she knows the difference between health and non health but it still hurts.Had she replied to some of her commenters they were fat, overweigh or other wise heavier than her it would not have gone down well.People seem to feel scared,nervous, intimidated by others who are not like them..they fall into the same box as racists.

Ashlee says:

03:24pm | 05/11/09

Oh, four hour time difference and busy morning means I am well behind and can’t really join in the debating fun, but a few clarifications.

I never said BMI/body size should be ignored.  It’s about reframing the discourse in the weight debate.  Obviously, lots of research shows weight is a risk factor for many diseases. I know this, lots of fat people know this. We aren’t all stupid — that’s just one of those nasty stereotypes. But the conversation on weight has been simplified to the point where it’s like “oh, that person’s fat, hence unhealthy, hence a burden on the health system and me as a taxpayer, hence deserving of great scorn and possibly a bit of public humiliation for good measure.”  It’s the same blanket vilification we see in other debates (eg. immigration).  It’s wrong there (in my opinion), so it’s wrong on the weight debate too.  We don’t see the same bitterness brought out by other health issues that cost the taxpayer money, for example, against people with skin or lung cancer or alcoholism, because it would be viewed as pretty cold hearted to do so.  But somehow, it seems with weight no blow is too low.  Why does this alleged ‘health’ discussion have to be particularly hateful, and if it’s really about health, why isn’t a complete picture of health, including mental health, taken into account? 

Can’t write more now, Indonesian legal system combusting a bit today.  I’ll be back to play later.  Thanks for all the comments.

Nelson says:

03:28pm | 05/11/09

It’s not your weight. Australia has become a nation of haters. We pick on each other for whatever reason springs to mind. If we think someone is a member of an outer group, we go for the jugular. That’s why there was a column here last week about being abused while exercising in the park. We hate cyclists because they ride bikes. We’ve become an intolerant society that thinks humour is about making fun of people and kicking anyone who’s different.

Bonez says:

04:06pm | 05/11/09

All,
Number one, the weight can be lost.  And once it’s lost can stay lost.  I can personally attest to that.  I was 97KG and am now fluctuating between 76 and 79KG and have done so for almost 8 years now.

What did it take?  Just eating smaller healthier portions and excersising just a bit more.

What am I saying?  There is no excuse for being overweight.  My mother was (is) morbidly obese, at one stage in her life the dr told her if she didn’t lose the weight she posed a high risk of dying SOON! She went from a size 28 down to a 16 in just over a year, reduced her blood pressure meds down and stopped needing the anti-depressants.

She could have kept the weight off to, if she hadn’t have gone back to her old ways, but she’s back to a size 28 and needing her bp and ad meds constantly now, what a shame.

Yes it’s stupid to be judged by your weight, but as I said, you can lose it, you just have to want to.  Lose the weight, lose the judgements against you.

Sophie says:

04:26pm | 05/11/09

It’s like everyone’s missed the point of Ashlee’s article! So much sneering and judging going on…

The whole point is so long as overweight people are made to feel crap about themselves, they’ll struggle to find the confidence/motivation to lose weight.

boden says:

05:17pm | 05/11/09

It’s sad people attempt to discredit BMI because it classifies them as overweight or obese. Unless you’re a top level athlete or body-builder the fact is the BMI does apply to you.

It’s similar to how people that are overweight rely on arguments about rare medical conditions to try and claim that their weight is not simply a result of calories-in versus calories-burned.

Jolanda says:

05:25pm | 05/11/09

One half of the world talks about the other half - that is life.  If you dont’ like to be teased for being oveweight then you should do something about it or grow thicker skin.  What about people who are skinny, they get commented on all the time too.  My poor son has to deal with it constantly.  I tell him that if he doesn’t want to be called skinny then he has to eat more and put on some weight or suck it up because he is skinny.

Vicki PS says:

06:12pm | 05/11/09

Thanks, Ashlee, for nicely encapsulating the arguments I’ve attempted to advance in comments on other articles.  I object to fat-bashing on two levels.  First, attempting to make individual prognoses on the basis of population data is very poor science.  One can reasonably make observations about the potential health risks an obese individual faces: but one cannot draw conclusions about that person’s actual level of fitness and state of health, any more than an actuary would be able to predict the date and cause of my death.  (Matt still hasn’t grasped the distinction, it seems).

Second, the present strategy of drawing a direct line between public health costs and obesity simply gives permission to the angry yobbo element to bully and harass with impugnity.

Moreover, from a political perspective the focus on obesity neatly diverts attention from other cost-benefit questions about the use of public monies under the guise of promoting health and fitness.  For instance, does the Australian Institute of Sport really do a damn thing to improve Australians’ health and fitness, or is it just another bread-and-circuses deal?  What do sports medicine, sport-related injuries and longterm health problems (e.g. degenerative joint disease) cost our health system?  Who really benefits from the dollars poured into government support for sporting events?

Kevinn says:

08:52pm | 05/11/09

Matt, you sir are a tugger.  The old attack other people to cover your own insecurities trick (wait for it) you talentless hack.

Brett says:

05:43am | 06/11/09

I don’t understand what you actually want. It’s a biological fact both men and women are attracted to slim healthy looking people. That’s how nature intended it for successful breeding. I think the issue here is you just people to lay off you and other fat people. The problem is fat is associated with gluttony and laziness. And they are both evils in society. 
I personally don’t think we should ever accept that being overweight is OK. To do so in just another lazy thing to avoid the pain of losing weight by just forcing people to accpet you instead.

Lara says:

06:55am | 06/11/09

The point is, its none of anyone else’s business to comment or judge on another persons weight. Things can be complicated, not so black and white. Try to be nice and well mannered. Leave people alone. What happened to acceptance and value for human life.

Elsie says:

10:02am | 06/11/09

I used to be fat, now I am ... well, not skinny, but slim. Being fat was awful — watching the telly, where fat people are routinely figures of fun, was excruciating; men rejected me; clothes looked ill on me; I felt stodgy, depressed and unattractive. I never experienced outright abuse, but society keeps fatties in its sights and fires daily, numerous pot shots. The resulting lack of self-esteem makes weight loss difficult — I felt I looked ridiculous exercising, or ordering skim milk in my coffee. But eventually I lost about 20 kilos (how? I ate much less. I exercised. I kept it off) and life became infinitely easier and more fun.

I agree with the author that the barrage of subtle abuse fat people experience does not encourage them to lose weight. We need somehow to stop vilifying fatness while gently encouraging people to attain a healthy weight. ALL the overweight people I know eat too much, not matter how often they talk about genetics or metabolism. Almost (note: “almost”) all women could achieve a waist measurement of 80cm or less (the waist circumference that indicates a reduced chance of heart disease) if they try. But we need to encourage this, not disparage them.

Sally says:

10:55am | 07/11/09

I don’t think we should aim our negative reactions against individuals. Ashlee is right and there are a multitude of reasons why overweight/obesity is an epidemic.

Why don’t we resent the corporations instead of people: the McDonalds, CocaCola, the supermarket chains etc for destroying the western diet? It is in our nature to eat more calories than we consume - it is a biological instinct that only some individuals can override. It is capitalism & big business that have profited on this human weakness & they should be made accountable (like cigarette companies).

FFS says:

01:25pm | 07/11/09

Why does anyone care if another person is ‘fat’ or not? Get a bloody life, worry about yourself not how much someone else weighs! The old ‘my taxes’ argument is a furphy- ‘your’ taxes go to subsidising lots of things you probably would greatly resent if you knew about them. As to smaller people being healthier than bigger people- I’ve been alot smaller than I am now, and did nothing but smoke and drink energy drinks to keep the hunger pangs at bay. Oh, and swallow handfuls of laxatives to get rid of the food when I succumbed. Sound healthy?  People who obsess about things like other people’s appearance or weight- you’ve really got to wonder who they are really hating- I suspect that deep down, it’s themselves.

Charles Darwin says:

11:47am | 08/11/09

Don’t worry people, over time, evolution will do what it has always done and weed out the weakest in the species. The healthy, fit and strong will select sexual partners of similar qualities and continue to produce healthier, fitter and stronger offspring. For the less environmentally adept, the opposite will occur until they reach final extinction. Sexual discrimination (selecting who we chose to reproduce with) is instinctual and a vital for survival of the species. Discrimination of the unfit in a society benefits the society as a whole however distressing it is for the individual, be it an unhealthily overweight person or a monkey with a short tail.

Carol says:

07:55pm | 21/11/09

Oh yeah. People have totally missed the point of this whole article. Seriously. She’s right on the money when she says that with weight, we have no respect for people. Fat has become a loaded word, since it implies a plethora of characteristics about a person, all negative.

And people are very vitriolic when it comes to dealing with fat people, telling them that they need to “stop eating and move more” without even knowing what they do for a living, without knowing their medical state, without knowing their mental state.

Humans are hypocrites.

JH says:

05:35pm | 02/12/09

I would like to see the percentage of people here who have commented about people judging them that are actually over weight? Interestingly enough, my girlfriend says she feels intimidated.. my response whilst supportive is what do you what people to do. Not look at you, not pass judgement.? Everyone no matter who they are make judgements ... every possible opportunity of every day. And seriously I feel that people need to simply stop looking to blame someone for it, rather ignore them, and just not care. If someone insults me, I merely look at them have a go back and tell them its there opinion. People and their soft attitudes today are causing more trouble than its worth. Alot of people need to grow up and get over such minor issues in life… If you are fat, if you are over your BMI then you are not as healthy. Full stop. Irrelevant if you have better genes than someone. You are still overweight. Fullstop.

Naomi says:

02:08pm | 09/12/09

Absolutely.

My male friend has less than 4% bodyfat from working out obsessively at the gym, but due to his muscle mass (muscle weighs more than fat) his weight puts him in the obese category of BMI (31).

Instead we should be focused less on the outside and more on the inside:
cholesterol
blood sugar
blood pressure
incidental exercise
nutritional intake
mental attitudes
getting the right amount of sleep
eating a wide variety of good fats (fish, nuts, eggs, seeds, oils - Omega 3/6/9) while avoiding processed refined fats (saturated and trans) wherever possible . . . even if this means you are the healthy size for your body rather than the media-acceptable size 8-10 (its a small price to pay for the antioxidants, vitamins, cholesterol-reducing fats and protein that these fat sources contain).

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