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Why is nobody going to watch the A-League?

David Hall

by David Hall

21 Sep 05:35am

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Filed under: A League, Afl, Ffa, Football Federation Australia, Fox Sports, Nrl, Soccer

135 comments

Another week in the A-League, another drubbing for the attendance figures. I tuned in to the Gold Coast-Mariners game on Monday and thought Fox Sports had actually started adding canned crowds to their coverage.

The crowd joins in the Gold Coast v Sydney teams shot, however find themselves outnumbered by players

I’m not here to beat up the A-League – I have to make a living out of and there’s enough people doing it already – but the Gold Coast attendance of 2037 is appalling. This club is a known basketcase and has never had much of a crowd but it was the same across the league. Why don’t football fans turn up?

Let’s get the obvious reason out the way: its finals time for the two big codes, and they’re sucking up every possible sports fan, second of airtime and dollar that exists.

But we’re now seven weeks into the A-League season and the state of the competition has been all over the media in the last week or so – but still no one’s turning up. The Newcastle Jets are on the verge of collapse, and still only 6977 turned up on Friday night – and they can’t even blame the Knights. Newcastle is one of the hotbeds of the game in Australia – so where are they all?

This is a genuine question, so please don’t just put “coz soccers boring” or something similar. Why don’t football fans, all those thousands of weekend participants we hear about, go to games?

Are you more interested in the other codes at the moment because of the finals? Is there something about the A-League you don’t like? Do you prefer the EPL or La Liga? Is it the Australian obsession with the drama of finals? Or is it just because you’d rather sit on the couch and watch the game on pay TV with your own non-pissy beer in a non-regulation glass?

The ABS reckons 13 per cent of kids play outdoor soccer, compared to 9 per cent for AFL; the roundball also remains ahead of the other codes for adult participations rates. So what’s gone wrong?

There have been plenty of soccer pundits happy to point the finger at Football Federation Australia over the past week – and they certainly could be doing a lot more, a lot cleverer – but do fans carry any responsibility? There’s no point banging on about the game’s virtues when the stadiums are continually empty. If you love it, get out and watch it – otherwise you’ll lose it and all those people you’ve been trying to convince for years will finally be proven right – that Australia just doesn’t like soccer.

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135 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • Frank De Nile says:

      05:51am | 21/09/10

      Soccer needs an entertainment overhaul,who,s got 2 hours to watch 1-0 scorelines,reduce the sides to 9 aside,open up the net,get scorelines like 6-5 then at least there would be some action. Soccer is more like art than sport,all about flowery interpretation and very little definitive substance.

      Reply

    • Cooko says:

      09:28am | 21/09/10

      Are you American?

    • Sarah says:

      10:31am | 21/09/10

      Eh? High scores would make it attractive? No way. The difficulty of scoring is the attractiveness, goals require immense skill and organisation, and when a goal does come the fulfilment is heightened. The wide variety of plays, individual skills, etc, makes it interesting to watch.

      We need to compare it to test cricket - a game where nothing happens for several minutes at a time, a game that can go for 5 days and end in a draw - but still gets 20,000 people attending on a work day. Is it because you’re watching the national team? Socceroos games are well-attended.
      Local cricket comps do worse than soccer - when NSW plays Qld you’ll be lucky to get 2000 in the stands.

    • Frank De Amazon says:

      10:34am | 21/09/10

      Superb comment.  Utterly ridiculous, but superb nonetheless.  Open up the net?  Wow.  So they should change the rules of the world’s most popular sport because it’s too boring?  Doesn’t seem to make that much sense to me - obviously there’s a few people who find it quite entertaining enough. 

      Possibly, Frank, not everyone needs a ‘score’ every couple of minutes to be entertained? 

      And to answer your question - who has got two hours to watch 1-0 scorelines?  Well, they reckon 700 million watched the World Cup final, which finished 1-0.

    • Markus says:

      11:26am | 21/09/10

      Gotta love how every football thread inevitably brings along someone whose only response to any critique of the sport is “it is the WORLD game!”. It is like a soccer version of Godwin’s Law.

      Sarah your comparison to Test cricket is very appropriate, as cricket has rebranded itself in recent years to appeal to new fans who find Test cricket boring.
      The recent T20 State Big Bash actually sold out most games, something Test matches now struggle to (apart from the Boxing Day test).

    • ImaWestie says:

      12:59pm | 21/09/10

      @Markus, good comparison: Instead of bleating about poor attendance, Cricket Australia launched a new brand.

      Maybe that’s what the round-ball code needs to do too. New code, new rules, new ground… and some scoring shots in every game!

      This post was asking “why don’t you go to the football” not “why do you go to the football”. If we all like the same thing as the people who attend, the crowds would be bigger!

    • Luke says:

      01:39pm | 21/09/10

      Can we stop comparing anything to cricket at the moment… the sport is in turmoil. There is no doubt about it though, A league crowds are poor… attracting crowds of 2,000 people cannot continue.

    • Al says:

      06:25am | 21/09/10

      Crowds will fluctuate, i think the main issue is expectations. Look at the league over the last five years and its been a decent start, followed now by a dip. Which was expected so why the surprise? We still rate well by international football league standards, just not enough to impress our rugby or aussie rules loving mates (a shame i agree).

      Newcastle fans have been turned off by the chairman Constantine, a fact that seems to have been overlooked by most commentators. (Maybe a fresh start their is required… this is what they have relegation for in other parts of the world) Gold Coast seems to have issues with any new sporting team that lobs in.

      But for the most part the “crisis” seems all too overblown. The football has been good this year which is ultimately what i come to the A-League for nowadays. While ever Lowy is confident the league will survive i’m content. We’ve still come a long, long way since 10 years ago.

      Reply

    • Nick says:

      06:40am | 21/09/10

      A-League does quite well in attendance given the substandard quality of product it serves up. In the A-league you are not watching the best players of the sport. In AFL, cricket and argueably rugby leage/union you have players who could be considered world class and worth paying admission to watch. The A-league is littered with has beens and never will be. The best of the sport play overseas and I enjoy watchin the EPL on TV. I have been to one A-League match and it wasn’t half bad once I had a skinful in me - but maybe thats the test. If you have to be drunk to enjoy the game, its probably not that good to begin with.

      Reply

    • Al says:

      07:53am | 21/09/10

      Well if you love football - which plenty of Aussies do - its our chance to get out and watch an actual game in a real stadium and professional league.

      No offence to rugby league or aussie rules, but its no achievement to have the world’s best competition in those sports.

      Just because the A-League isn’t the best on the planet, doesn’t mean its not worth having. By that logic, there should only be two or three football leagues in the world, and the rest of us would have to just watch it all on the tele. Now that would be boring !

    • Andy says:

      07:10am | 21/09/10

      Q: Why is nobody going to watch the A-League?

      A: It’s soccer.

      Reply

    • Evan Findlay says:

      11:59am | 21/09/10

      Andy,
      My sentiments exactly. As a product it is boring and repetitive, similiar to rugby league. Five tackles, kick. Now in reverse. Five tackles, kick. And do it again. People need to be entertained. Kicking a ball along the ground back and forth just doesn’t cut it. And as for what constitutes a tackle, please. And don’t get me started on all of the acting. It’s similiar to V8’s and NASCAR. Who wants to watch cars travel around a circular track 200 times? At least with the V8’s there are sharp corners, s bends, straights. It all adds to the excitement.

      Soccer may be the world game but that’s because most countries don’t play Australian rules or a similiar football game that has a lot more to offer in the way of excitement.  It’s soccer or it’s soccer.

    • Mick says:

      02:19pm | 21/09/10

      I’d of thought soccer’s problem is more like that of AFL,  in that many Australians consider it “soft” unlike the rugby codes ie league and union. Many of my AFL mates are turning away from the game because the rule makers are de-fanging it and are now more appreciative of the league and union spectacles. As for Soccer, I’m afraid it’s always going to be viewed as a non-contact sport by most Aussies. And that’s not to say it isn’t a good game.

    • Ziggy says:

      05:35pm | 21/09/10

      @Evan Findlay
      While I agree with your sentiment re NASCAR it draws incredible crowds in the US and generates massive economic benfits to the communities in which it operates. Believe me, the drivers are huge stars when they come to town.

    • John L says:

      07:12am | 21/09/10

      ...but soccer IS boring. And stop trying to call it football in Australia, Its soccer. I’m not sure where those figures about junior soccer participation come from either. I live in outer eastern Melb where there are about 10 local junior footy clubs but the nearest junior soccer club is 12 km away. Even if the soccer junior participation figures are remotely right, soccer obviously has abig problem winning hearts and minds (probably becuase ultimately….it boring!)

      Reply

    • neil says:

      11:44am | 21/09/10

      The Poms used to call it soccer until the French and Germans took the game off them and started calling it by the generic name that covers all codes of football.

      The correct name is Association Football, (English Football Association) soccer is an slang abbreviation of association, it was originally pronounce so-sir but over time has become soccer, in the same way that union football is called rugby because the English Football Union was based at Rugby School in Cambridge.

    • Steve says:

      07:20am | 21/09/10

      The problem is, most participants in the game are not “fans”. They are either kids who are playing the game because their mothers don’t want them to get bashed or are adults looking to stay fit in what is considered a “safe/soft” sport. .

      If the A-League goes to the wall, I won’t care and I have both played and coached at NSW state league level. It has always been a forced/manufactured attempt to take the game away from its roots in this country. However, the mainstream are clearly not interested because, as is often noted, “soccer is boring”. Each to their own I say - i’m not trying to convert anyone to the sport. Rugby League, AFL, Cricket etc have the domestic market of 20m wrapped up and it’s about time some people in Australian soccer accepted this.

      As for the A-League, why would anyone in their right minds want to go and watch a bunch of overpaid cloggers scuffle around for 90 minutes in what will soon be the Australian summer ? Most of these blokes are semi-pros in terms of quality, yet they’re being paid on average $110,000 a year !!. That’s why the league is in financial strife. A decent level of full-time professional football is simply unsustainable in this country. The support simply isn’t there.

      Reply

    • Paul says:

      09:33am | 21/09/10

      Safe or soft sport?! Come and play in my over-35s league - first 4 rounds, 4 broken legs and an ACL rupture.  Soft, pffft.

    • Lazy Jesus says:

      11:25am | 21/09/10

      You have 4 legs? See, I’d go along to see that.

    • Gregg says:

      10:57pm | 21/09/10

      You old fogies just weren’t keeping up with the calcium intake in younger years Paul.

    • Ham says:

      07:56am | 21/09/10

      Participation rates are meaningless. I used to play soccer and loved it, but I cannot stand watching a game. It is so boring. Soccer might be fun to play but that fun does not transfer to the viewers.

      Reply

    • AFR says:

      08:36am | 21/09/10

      I think soccer suffers from the same image problem as Basketball. Both are incredible popular sports, but “fans” are moer interested in watching the overseas product. When asked who they support, 90% of soccer and basketball fans will nominate overseas teams.

      Reply

    • Shifter says:

      01:41pm | 21/09/10

      It’s just the level of play in the spectacle. Most people have been exposed to viewing the highest level of a sport, and watching things at a lower level is less interesting to watch.

      It’s like telling an AFL fan they should flock to WAFL reserves games in huge numbers because it’s the same sport.

    • T.Chong says:

      08:36am | 21/09/10

      Simple : Soccer sux.
      The world wide popularity of “the world game ” seems to mainly reside within the imaginations of commercially involved spruikers.
      The lack of interest in seat sales says it all, the punters aint planting their butts to watch it. Reality.

      Reply

    • Sarah says:

      11:37am | 21/09/10

      “The lack of interest in seat sales says it all, the punters aint planting their butts to watch it. “

      That is NOT reality.
      When the Socceroos played a friendly against Holland last year, the 50,000 seats sold out in a day and the sydney footy stadium was chockers.
      People also compeltely ignore local cricket competitions.

    • Jo says:

      08:55am | 21/09/10

      We also need to consider that it takes time to build a fan base and become popular. Australians aren’t used to being able to watch high quality football/soccer in person, they’re used to watching it on tv. As for the participation figures, I’d say they were very accurate, even in Tasmania which traditionally is very AFL focussed. Give it time perhaps?

      Reply

    • Fred Biblic says:

      12:22pm | 21/09/10

      We still can’t watch high quality football/soccer in person, we only have the A-League.

    • Macca says:

      09:02am | 21/09/10

      @David Hall, as you’ve already touched on, Sydney and Melbourne (and this weekend, Brisbane) are currently in finals footy mode so the A-league is a bit on the backburner at this time of year.

      Newcastle Jets was also competing with their regional league and Union finals, which drew excellent crowds and have a far greater historical following than the Jets.

      Finally, I’d include price. unfortunately, its an expensive day out, and unless you have club membership, shelling out $30 a ticket plus food, drink and transport equates to an expensive night out.

      Things will pick up in a few weeks time, unfortunately the game is just in one of its troughs, the swell will come back soon

      Reply

    • Dave Hall says:

      11:33am | 21/09/10

      Ticket price is an issue that keeps getting raised. It is expensive but more so than NRL or AFL? Clubs have to try to make the money to balance their stadium deals somehow but this obviously isnt working.

      And I hope you’re right that things will pick up. I think we’ll see a slight rise but I don’t know if it’ll be significant.

    • ImaWestie says:

      01:05pm | 21/09/10

      @Dave:
      Compare it to “Bronze class” Swans Superpasses.
      Family of 5, 3 games to ANZ, including public transport. $130 (from memory), Sydney Swans vs St Kilda, Collingwood, Geelong (I think).

      You tell me where the value is?

    • Macca says:

      01:57pm | 21/09/10

      @Dave Hall, I think the difference is the club membership.

      Sydney FCs membership is as high as most of the League clubs, and almost as high as the swans. Its almost half the annual membership for the SCG (but obviously you don’t need to plug down a few thousand and wait half a lifetime to get it). So, to stick with the logic, If you throw down the better part of a thousand dollars at the start of the season, and attend 20 games with the family, you are not shelling out money every single weekend.

      This works for AFL, and to a lesser degree NRL, (and quite well for Cricket Test Matches) where clubs have up to 10 000 (sometimes more) members that fork out their money at the start of the season and then turn up to most games to get their money’s worth, including away games. This is made a lot easier by the mutiple city clubs - 5 or 6 teams in each of Melbourne and Sydney for their respective dominate codes, can’t be bothered counting. Furthermore, as the cost of going to the game is a lot less each week (as you’ve already spent the money) the budgetory disinsentives to attend aren’t as prevalent.

      I also think the one-team per city rule could be having a negative impact on crowd figures as there is few visiting fans, but I think the model is correct for the A-league currently.

    • Dave Hall says:

      02:52pm | 21/09/10

      @ Macca Your point on one team per city is well made; the other codes, with so much close proximity between teams in Sydney and Melbourne respectively, are always going to be able to build a better rivalry and get larger crowds.

      Hopefully the upcoming Melbourne derby and possible Sydney derby can help this.

      @ ImaWestie I genuinly didn’t know the price of AFL/NRL memebrships, even though I have plenty of mates who have them. Sydney are doing a three-match pass buy one, get one free for $66 - pretty good value. Adult bronze membership costs $270 - how does that compare?

    • Old Salt says:

      09:02am | 21/09/10

      My opinion:
      * A-League quality is non-existent
      * When you grow up in Australia you choose either an AFL or league side (even Super 15) to follow.  League and AFL are very tribal, the A-League doesn’t have that.
      * Soccer isn’t boring, i love watching it, the A-League is boring.  The World Cup on the other hand….
      * The market in Australia isn’t really big enough to support all codes at a high level - there is only 22 million of us - we have 16 AFL teams, 16 NRL teams, now 5 Super 15 teams, the Wallabies, plus the Australian Cricket team during the summer.  Now they want us to become members/turn up to games of another 10 teams???
      *  Played in summer? Sorry, after the next two weeks of footy i cannot watch another game until next March.  Even league trial games in February are hard to watch, so how can i watch a winter sport in summer?  I know they moved it to there to get away from the other codes but it doesn’t work.
      I have played soccer for a season (i’m a league boy at heart and played for 15 years) and loved it - great game to play.  I really wish the A-League was successful, and i hate being pessimistic, but its not going to be.

      Reply

    • Jack says:

      09:23am | 21/09/10

      I have been to 2 games this year and the standard was very good. The thing that keeps me away however is the same as with the AFL - I have a choice between watching it Live on Fox, or travelling to and from the game on a cold winter’s night. Live TV sport is killing attendance’s…

      (in the AFL they stick their head in the sand because the like’s of Collingwood play two home games against Live TV twice in a year, . Look at the teams that have to play against live Foxtel broadcasts more than 70% of their home games: Western Bulldogs, North Melbourne, Port Adelaide, Adelaide.  With the exception of the Crows… none of these clubs have pulling power in the first place. To then put them up against live broadcast is killing them. I gave up going to watch my team 3 times this year for the comfort of my own home, and I have a season’s ticket…)

      Reply

    • Trevor says:

      09:45am | 21/09/10

      The participation rate for soccer creates an illusion of strength. Soccer has always had a lot of players but have never drawn sustained crowds for top level competition. If you look at data you will actually find that soccer is in steep decline among young adults and children and will probably be surpassed by Australian football in the near future.

      You really need to get past this implied idea that all sports are equal and they only get the attention they do for reasons of marketing or culture. Well they aren’t all equal, some truly are fundamentally more boring than others to watch and play. Australian’s are luckily aware of more exciting options for their sporting attention than soccer.

      The collapse of the A-League was predictable and predicted. The hype drew drew an initial bump of interest which hype always does but they didn’t manage to capitalize on that initial interest. The reason they failed is that many people didn’t go for the soccer, they went to get a taste of ‘english football’ atmosphere.

      Unfortunately for the A-League atmosphere can only hold interest for a short time, the on field action has to hold up as well, but it can’t because it’s soccer and is painfully dull. As the crowds dwindle so to does the motivation and interest for those that remain, the A-League has now entered terminal decline.

      Reply

    • Al says:

      11:32am | 21/09/10

      wow Trevor, sticking to the “it’s just boring” line ... 5 stars for effort. You do realise they have other sports around the world too? And they still choose football. Including England where they have both rugby codes.

    • Trevor says:

      01:20pm | 21/09/10

      Al, I’m positive most Australians would be far more sporting ‘literate’ than your average English soccer fan.

      Soccer fans seem to blindly cling to this faith that it’s lack of popularity has nothing to do with the actual sport and everything to do with marketing and culture.

      Calling soccer “boring” isn’t just a line, it’s reality. It would be honest to pretend otherwise.

    • howy says:

      09:46am | 21/09/10

      The A-League doesn’t have to be a success for Australia to be good internationally, let it go.

      AFL and league are generational.

      Reply

    • Notorious says:

      09:55am | 21/09/10

      I think part of the problem is the A-League has expanded too quickly, and has too many teams based in Queensland (and north of Sydney). The league should have consolidated with what they had for a few more years, and then expanded into large markets like Melbourne and Sydney. I mean seriously, QLD has 3 teams! Sydney 1… and Melbourne Heart only joining this year. Who’s bright idea was it to put three teams into Australia’s fifth most populations density state.

      Reply

    • s m says:

      09:56am | 21/09/10

      We went to a Fury game on the weekend.  We’d probably go more often if
      a) It wasn’t so expensive (though if it only cost us half the price of an AFL game at the MCG on a trip to Melbourne a few years back)
      b) the games weren’t at 8pm to avoid the heat - not easy with small kids. 

      I can’t speak about other towns, but I haven’t noticed the Editor of our local rag doesn’t show a lot of support for the Fury, but the Cowboys still get front and back page stories during the off season.

      I wonder if, had the A-league started before players were paid such exorbitant salaries, supporters gear didn’t cost two arms and a leg, and the cost of going to games wasn’t so prohibitive, whether crowds would be bigger and clubs not going backwards financially?

      Reply

    • PM says:

      10:02am | 21/09/10

      I’m an indoor soccer player but I have no real interest in the A-League. I play socccer for fitness and because the basic skills are simple. For spectacle I mainly watch Aussie Rules, either locally or AFL games in person and on TV.
      For me there’s a difference in the way I participate. I wonder that playing (participation) can really be interpreted as an interest in the local professional game.

      Reply

    • mcmob says:

      10:09am | 21/09/10

      Two reasons.

      1/ I only have room in my life for one team I’m obsessed with ... and since the age of eight it’s been a Premier League team (go Everton). Doesn’t help that the local A-League team plays in red, either.

      2/ As Jack says, when you’ve got Foxtel you have the choice of watching the game in the comfort of your own home or shelling out $50+ to go and watch it live.

      Reply

    • Pete says:

      12:18pm | 21/09/10

      Thats a cop out, you have the opportunity to be a part of a club and yet you would put Everton first, curious.  I’m a Celtic fan since I can remember yet when they came to town it was Roar first.  It was great seeing the club I watched all hours of the night in person but it is the local A-League team you can actually feel you are a part of.

    • richo says:

      10:21am | 21/09/10

      It’s because most of the A-League clubs are set up as millionaires play things. AFL teams and rugby league teams have long been part of the community, but the A-League decided not to be. The NSL club I followed had a social club, where football fans could gather before and after matches and you felt like you belonged to something. Franchise sport doesn’t work, you can’t just pop clubs in different areas of the country and expect people to turn up, without any community work.
      Also there has long been an anti-football element in Australia, Sheila’s wogs and homosexuals, springs to mind. Look at Rebecca Wilson and Peter Fitzsimmons, these people are paid to bag the crap out of the sport and with Australian’s having a sheep mentality they lap it up like it’s gospel.

      There is also a one sport only mentality that exists within Australia i.e. if you’re an AFL supporter then you must hate league and football, and vice versa of course. Australian’s are very closed minded people and aren’t willing to try and except anything new. The AFL hasn’t helped with its us verse them mentality, which seems to be working from the other comments on this site. I have never understood the notion of wanting everyone to play the one sport, if someone wants to enjoy their sport let them, why all the hatred?
      Clearly it is not just one thing but a multitude of problems. Even ex-nsl football people don’t like the A-League. Football isn’t big enough in this country to have irritated fans. The way they treated the NSL, has only hurt them in the long run. But even the Gold Coast Titans haven’t had huge crowds at every game so maybe it’s a Gold Coast thing, look how many teams have gone bust there over the years.

      Reply

    • Tony says:

      11:01am | 21/09/10

      Most of what you say is absolute bulldust. Probably half the people that attend A-League and NRL games in Melbourne also follow the AFL and as a proportion of population, probably more “anglo’s” attend the A-League than the AFL.

      It’s funny that the only people I ever hear talking about “sokkah, wogs, sheila’s and poofs” are people that wallow in the idea of soccer victimhood, see conspiracies everywhere and try to introduce racism into sport by presenting other codes as “bogan” sports. Meanwhile, AFL clubs sponsor homosexual supporter groups, have huge numbers of women attendees and if you spend any length of time in the outer you will hear a wide range of multi-lingual swearing (at the umpires naturally) from people with origins from all over the planet.

      Perhaps you should take a look at yourself before you accuse others of having a “closed mind”?

    • richo says:

      11:48am | 21/09/10

      Tony, you are clearly not as old as me son. I am a wog and the amount of abuse I copped for being a soccer player from AFL players was ridiculous. The mentality change from AFL fans, was due to society changing its attitude, and what it deems acceptable. You are talking about the present, whilst conveniently ( maybe due to your age) forgetting the past.
      I think it’s great you point out the good things the AFL has done whilst not mentioning the off-field incidents, maybe that’s why they have to sponsor some of the organisations they do.
      Racism most definitely did exist from AFL supporters, just because the times have changed doesn’t mean it didn’t happen back then.
      I am not anti-AFL, but for me when I see AFL, I remember the taunts, some of those taunts (girls game) are written on this very forum.
      I am no victim, I am merely stating my experiences, if you can’t except the way some AFL fans behave then that’s your problem. Wog ball got it’s name from somewhere after all didn’t it? I wonder who came up with that one.

    • Tony says:

      01:41pm | 21/09/10

      Still trying to implicate Australian football with bigotry? Clearly, when you look at the history of the sport, it is the most progressive and socially inclusive sport in Australia.

      I might not be as old as you richo, but I remember the “wogs rule skips pull” chants at AFL matches in the 80s. If you copped abuse from football players, maybe it was because you were a wimpy cultural cringer, not that such abuse is excusable.

      The epithets directed at soccer seem to arise from within more than externally.

    • richo says:

      03:28pm | 21/09/10

      Yep Tony, you’re right AFL players have done no wrong. How silly of me to suggest that they aren’t perfect human beings, clearly they are super human and their off-field behaviour is impeccable. However to imply that if someone is abused it is their fault is ludicrous at best, it is that behaviour that allows AFL players to get away with their bad behaviour. Keep trying to justify racism, you might convince someone one day.

    • Ricardo says:

      03:45pm | 21/09/10

      Richo don’t bother trying to argue with this Tony character after all he said: “Clearly, when you look at the history of the sport, it is the most progressive and socially inclusive sport in Australia”.
      What a silly comment, look at the last names of the socceroos, then look at the last names of the all Australian AFL team.
      Bresciano, Grella, Vidosic and Spiranovic.
      Compared to, Judd, Cousins, Brown and Abblett.
      He also says its progressive John Elliott former CEO of Carlton admitted to paying girls not to press rape charges against AFL players, is that what the AFL calls progressive?
      Hey Tony how many A-League players are fighting sexual assault charges?

    • Tony says:

      06:04pm | 21/09/10

      Oh dear, more wallowing. It appears being a victim has become part of your self identity and you can’t take off the racist blinkers.

      The AFL has a long history of involvement from all sections of society, are Barassi, Jezalenko, Dipierdeminico, Starcevich, Keckovich, Seow, Achee or Demetriou anglo names? Obviously in your eyes the existence of a player with an anglo name is proof of racism, but then no doubt you would cite the non-existence of players with anglo names as equal evidence of racism. You obviously have an opinion of convenience.

      As far as player behavior is concerned, all sports have bad sports. I’m sure I could dig up plenty of nasty stuff about soccer players if I wanted, wasn’t some Socceroo arrested just the other day? But really as far as issues of racism, poor behavior and corruption are concerned we only need to look at the decline of the NSL to see the relative merits of the codes.

    • richo says:

      09:52am | 22/09/10

      Oh! Tony, selective blindness must be a wonderful thing. I pointed out negatives about your game, you ignored them and you refuse to admit that they exist. I can admit all is not perfect in the world of football, why can’t you do the same for your game? You must be the most positive person in the world because to refuse to acknowledge the negatives. My original argument mostly focussed on why the A-League wasn’t working, and I put in a few AFL comments, you took to that like a dog to a bone. ” How dare someone point out the negatives of the game I follow “. All is not perfect in your game, you don’t (and won’t) admit it, but that doesn’t mean the problems aren’t there. Once again you have refused to admit there are major problems with off-field behavioural issues in your game. It is you who allows AFL players to get away with crime, as you refuse to accept that they do wrong. Shame on you Tony, I feel sorry for any women in your life, because you justify ill treatment of them.
      AFL may unite Melbourne, but football has the power to unite the world. This is a fact you will have to accept, your game is inferior in every other nation, it is you who is playing the victim.

    • Markus says:

      10:24am | 21/09/10

      Think about what it is that makes soccer so huge and entertaining internationally. It is not the entertainment factor of the sport itself, it is the history and tradition of the clubs, and the rivalries that stem from that history.

      As a neutral viewer the sport itself is one of the more boring to watch, and putting aside that the skill levels in the A-League are already lower than international club matches, there is also no rivalry between these artificially produced franchises to retain interest longterm.

      When up against 2 other established winter competitions with over 100 years of history and rivalry (AFL and NRL), and a third that recently established itself on the back of over 100 years of history (Super Rugby, which has both state rivalries and international rivalries), it was always going to be a struggle.

      Reply

    • Kevin Gallen's Magic says:

      10:27am | 21/09/10

      Show A League games on free to air television and I’d watch them, if I liked what I saw enough.. I’d get into the teams and players and be willing to go and watch games live.  Feeling sorry for them doesn’t get me over the line.

      It’s like the national basketball league, ruined ever since it stopped being shown on free to air television.. doesn’t need to be prime time either, late at night on a Friday and Saturday was good enough for basketball.

      The less people watching, the less advertising brings in and the less people are interested, the less is written about it until nobody cares, watches or buys tickets or merchandise and as less money is available for teams to spend on quality players the standard goes down and things get worse.

      Reply

    • ImaWestie says:

      01:14pm | 21/09/10

      Merchandise?
      Ask for A-League merchandise at Parklea Markets, Parramatta, Mt Druitt or Penrith Westfields. You’ll be offered something to do with England or USA before you’ll be offered anything other than NRL merchandise, or possibly, just maybe, something from a national team.

      I know, I’ve gone looking for Swans stuff!

    • Bob H says:

      10:27am | 21/09/10

      Its not on free to air, the results rarely make news let alone the personality/human interest/sideshow soccer stories which are continual for the other codes.  FFA CEO Buckley has not addressed these problems at all.  Just because Soccer has the best grass roots participation relying on that to miraculously transfer into the stadiums without hard work shows that Buckley has no idea how to progress the game, in fairness he has done a great job as FFA CEO - for the AFL.

      Reply

    • mike j says:

      04:27pm | 23/09/10

      Done a great job for himself, you mean. There’s no way that someone with the slightest knowledge of football/business/marketing could do such a terrible job and not be lining his pockets.

      Not putting A-league on free-to-air from day one to build a fan base = epic, epic fail. The FFA is clearly corrupt and taking cash under the table from Foxtel. A-league will continue haemorrhaging fans until it is gone. We might as well start all over again.

      Again.

    • Dave says:

      10:34am | 21/09/10

      I think the main problem is that soccer is so boring.
      Saying that a 0-0 or 1-0 game can be exciting is a soccer tragics cliche and is basically not true.
      It has been left behind while other sports have improved.

      Endless friendlies between San marino sand Slovakia are not interesting so the whole ‘world game’ furphy is no selling point.

      If you want to watch foreign sports, the NFL is heaps better than soccer

      Reply

    • Macca says:

      02:02pm | 21/09/10

      rubbish, a 4 hour NFL game for 60 minutes of play is the most boring sporting event ever. A highlights package of NFL, or even a delayed broadcast, but live. Awful

      Actually, the Aus - Swiss 0-0 game was an absolute cracker!

    • Cheese says:

      10:41am | 21/09/10

      I’d still argue the A League has a brighter future than the AFL, where they assemble the best players of the year to create a dream team… then play nobody.

      Reply

    • Chris says:

      10:50am | 21/09/10

      I am a regular at Perth Glory games, where our average crowd so far is over 12,000. Now we are now increasing our crowds from the 6000 or so we used to get three years ago. This is a result of the club spending money to get players in, working with the fans and (most importantly) working with the grassroots organisations.

      From what I understand, Clive Palmer’s Gold Coast United have got the players in, but have not really worked with the fans or the grassroots organisations. Are there advertisements in the Gold Coast papers almost every day encouraging people to come down to the games? Do you see the players getting in among the community and grassroots clubs?

      I’m not convinced that North Queensland Fury was the smartest expansion plan on the books, I think it should have gone to Western Sydney first.

      One thing that the FFA and the A-League may want to consider is the merging of Newcastle Jets and the Central Coast Mariners to create a single Hunter Valley team. Fans tell me that many of the Newcastle fans actually commute up from Gosford way for the games so why not merge the teams? Let them play their home games in either Gosford or Newcastle as the case fits.

      Reply

    • Chris says:

      10:53am | 21/09/10

      I think the league has aquired the demeanor of a wounded beast, perhaps even the stench of failure. Humans naturally avoid anything that smells like failure, which is why I think crowds are falling.

      It hasn’t been any one thing, but in no particular order it has been the slimy behaviour of Con in Newcastle, the slimy behaviour of Clive up the Coast, Pim constantly deriding the league, no Dwight (or similar star power)and the general failure of the marquee rule, the North Qld debacle, the developing Western Sydney debacle, a much lower marketing budget (I used to hear “Not Many” all the time in season one - what is the song they use now and where do I get to hear it?), no games on free to air (a long term investment for the league would be to have one game or club on say, ONE HD each week, at slight cost to tv revenues)and a lack of personality or personal rivalry amongst the players (I want to read about, say, a Musalik hating a Muscat, and why do the likes of Kosmina get hunted out?).

      Also, The Asian Champions League has been poorly sold, and I think in part it is because our entrants are determined too far in advance. Teams we send over are past their peak (sometimes running last in our current league) and poor performances by our clubs on the world stage are not good for it.

      Reply

    • Steph says:

      10:56am | 21/09/10

      The game in this country is really boring. I have attended my fair share of games in Melbourne watching the Victory. I took an english mate to a game and he was suprised at the crowd turning on our own team. He asked why we would do that and everyone simply said how crap the team was. He couldn’t argue against that.

      The second nail in the coffin is Pim’s coaching performance against Germany. If we had played a naturally agressive Australian game and performed admirably, the Australian market may have been excited by football.

      Reply

    • Geoff says:

      11:00am | 21/09/10

      “This is a genuine question, so please don’t just put “coz soccers boring” or something similar. Why don’t football fans, all those thousands of weekend participants we hear about, go to games?”

      David , that is a genuine answer to you’re question. Australians find soccer boring. It’s due to the AFL more so than the NRL.

      In AFL every couple of minutes or so one team scores a point or six. Everyone cheers and screams. Now look at soccer, an entire 90 minutes can pass without a single point being scored. Now tell me which one Aussies are more likely to watch.

      Reply

    • stephen says:

      11:12am | 21/09/10

      Parents send their children to soccer rather that League so’s they don’t get injured, and headmasters hire soccer-coaches rather than League coaches so they don’t get sued.
      Soccer will never be big in Oz because on tele, where most Ozzies see their sport, soccer is boring. AFL and League are great visual spectacles.
      (In Europe, a comparable specticle would be a day at the UN e.g. the smorgasbord table).

      Reply

    • Richard says:

      11:13am | 21/09/10

      Jack and Mcmob are 100% wrong, while Kevin Gallen’s Magic and Bob H have hit the nail on the head. I’m a soccer fan, but I don’t have foxtel, and so I just can’t watch my team play often enough to really connect with them and hence care enough about them to be bothered to go and see games regularly.

      Another one of my friends does have foxtel, and he watches every game that our team plays, and guess what? He’s also the one that always hassles the rest of us once every couple of weeks to go and watch the real thing live. And it is great, anyone who went to the Roar Against Racism match at Suncorp last year vs. Celtic will tell you that the atmosphere was electric and the spectacle was superb.

      But to enjoy the experience there really needs to be a big crowd. And to get enough people interested enough in their team they need to raise the profile of the league. They NEED to show games on free-to-air tv and heavily promote them. I know Ben Buckley’s whole business models survives on foxtel royalties derived from exclusivity, but if he wants the A-league to succeed, he has only one choice: allow games to be shown on free-to-air tv, which allows fans to connect with their teams, which will then inspire them to go and support them live. It requires boldness and courage to adopt this strategy, but the alternative is death by suffocation. Don’t be a girl Ben, show the games on free-to-air.

      Reply

    • John L says:

      12:00pm | 21/09/10

      Good point. But why would free-to-air TV want to show games nobody goes to?

    • Macca says:

      02:08pm | 21/09/10

      @Richard, and would free-to-air fork out the tens of millions that News Ltd spend on Football each year to show a sport that isn’t making any money?

      Free-to-air’s position on live sport is generally rubbish. How Ch. 9 lost the ashes and will only show 1 live NRL game a week is complete crap. CH. 10 is just as bad with its motosport, NBL and Netball coverage.

      I don’t hold any confidence in Free-to-air supporting any sport

    • dw says:

      11:57am | 21/09/10

      Kids are encouraged to play soccer because parents see it as safer. The parents themselves are actually more interested in League/Union/AFL so that is where they will spend their money.

      Reply

    • S.L says:

      12:42pm | 21/09/10

      In my area we have the Mariners. They are consantly in the public eye locally at functions, charity days etc. The former coach even put on barbies at his own home for fans! But yes the crowds are very ordinary for us too. Surprisingly Mariners shirts are commonly worn in the street around here but it seems those same shirts don’t get through the gates at Blue Tongue. A good crowd is 10,000 for us. But to all the knockers of Soccer take a good look at sport in Australia in general. Except for internationals no one watches cricket. Look at Sheffield Shield matches, they get full reports in the electronic and print media yet little more than friends and family turn up! Cricket also gets a bucket load of cash in sponsorship for empty grandstands. I just don’t get it! AFL enjoys big crowds but I believe NRL crowd figures are very rubbery indeed. A local joke on the coast is a crowd of 10,000 in A league speak is 15,000 in NRL speak.
      David I think the crowds will pick up when the other finals are over but yes it doesn’t look good.
      Now here is a side story for the lovers of the other football codes in Australia.
      One of my kids was in London last year and took his 3 football jerseys, Mariners, Manly and the Swans. He saw some EPL games while he was there and for a joke he wore one of the jerseys from home to each game. The only one to get recognised was the Mariners shirt!

      Reply

    • Robert says:

      12:52pm | 21/09/10

      Football has never been popular in this country, why would the introduction of the A-League change this? No one went before and no one goes now. People in Australia don’t like games with skill and discipline. If a goal is not scored every two seconds (hello AFL)  then the ignorant Aussie’s attention span starts too waver.  Australians would prefer to watch seagulls fighting over a chip (AFL) and watch the guys get points for missing, then watch a game that takes an IQ of over 70 to understand. Australian’s are too thick to get the game of football, so what? Let them die alone in their ignorant bliss believing one day AFL will rule the world, and everyone will run through crape paper and sing show tunes after a win. Eggball and fumbleball for all.

      Seriously though the true football lovers don’t need the game to be popular in Australia and we don’t want bogans from other sports jumping on the bandwagon. We saw what happened in South Africa when the fanatics threw bottles at the Africans and yelled racist remarks at them. The game was better off without those code swappers ruining our name on the world stage. Our game is all inclusive, no matter what background, male or female, big or small, black or white. It is a game where the poorest man from Africa or Brazil can not only be a part of the game, but be the face of it. We do not need people from the anglo Australian codes bringing our game down to their level.
      Football will remain the major sport in 99% of the world, let the AFL have Melbourne because it’s all they have and it’s all they’ll ever have. Just don’t tell AFL fans that, there delusion knows no bounds, “one day the rest of the world will catch on, you’ll see”. Yeah right when they can’t even out-rate Iron Chef in Sydney Australia’s largest city, if you ain’t got all of Aus, you won’t get anywhere else.

      Reply

    • Eugene Shnorkelbean says:

      01:39pm | 21/09/10

      You’re the reason noone goes to watch the A-League.

    • Tim says:

      03:32pm | 21/09/10

      “Football will remain the major sport in 99% of the world.”

      China - No, not the major sport there.
      India - No, not the major sport there.
      USA - No, not the major sport there.

      Yep that’s half the world’s population right there.
      Just don’t tell soccer fans, their delusion knows no bounds.

    • Robert says:

      04:06pm | 21/09/10

      Hey Tim did you watch the 60 minutes report on AFL planning to conquer the world? And you want to talk about delusion. AFL doesn’t have China, India or the USA either, in fact it doesn’t even have QLD or NSW, yet they plan to be the biggest sport in the world!
      The game in China, India and the US is growing at an enormous rate. China have the CSL which is growing year on year. The MLS has been growing steadily in the US (enough to attract players like Beckham and Henry).
      It is even getting better in India, where they really only love cricket. Whilst football grows in these countries where is the AFL growing? The Gold Coast and Western Sydney, via the use of rugby league players. Your sports a joke and your arguments are weak and devoid of fact, you obviously no nothing about football in any of the countries you mentioned, yet feel obligated to comment. Educate yourself before you write, otherwise you just look ignorant. You should wake up to the harsh reality which is that no one cares about your sport, the very thing you have dedicated your life too, is unknown throughout the world. Everybody who read your post is now dumber, you have wasted their time and mine. Go away get some facts, comeback here and write things that you have now learnt about. Can’t wait to here from you.

    • Macca says:

      04:12pm | 21/09/10

      @Tim, I think Football is the biggest sport in China… what would be bigger than it?

    • Tony says:

      06:15pm | 21/09/10

      Ping pong, which is good ‘coz the because the aerial version will be an easy sell. wink

    • Who says:

      07:27pm | 21/09/10

      Robert,

      Your racism knows no bounds, not to mention your stupidity.  I seriously hope you can see the irony of being racist while accusing others of being racist. 

      Addressing the original question, I personally was a huge soccer fan (both playing and watching) but have recently stopped watching the sport due to the proliferation of obvious diving in the game and know of at least two others who are in the same boat.  The sooner this is changed the better.

    • Steve says:

      09:00pm | 21/09/10

      “Australian’s are too thick to get the game of football, so what?”. Pretty general statement there, you are Australian yourself, right?

    • A Dose of Reality says:

      12:00am | 22/09/10

      Robert, please read your posts carefully.

      You have insulted the Australian population simply because they prefer another code of football (Aussie Rules, an indigenous game, in WA SA Vic TAS NT and NRL in NSW Qld.), and then wonder why they don’t flock to be with you!.

      Have you actually considered that it is you who is the problem with soccer (Association Football)?

      By the way I, and many others, are not “anglos”, There are many of us whose ancestry has been in Australia for over 5 generations.  We are Australians.

      Other concerns (for the A-League and soccer in general) are that those who do follow the sport are predominately from overseas, and prefer to watch games from the “old country”.

      Also, the sheer stupidity in referring their game “football”, rather than forming their own “brand” is confusing.  The continual reference to soccer being “real football” also points to ignorance in their own sport.

    • S.L says:

      05:23am | 22/09/10

      @ Robert “seagulls fighting over a chip” is the best description of AFL I’ve ever heard, congatulations. My sides are still splitting!
      @ Tim the participation rate for football (soccer) in the India and USA is huge but as with the Australian media other sports get the bulk of their local broadcast time and sure India has fanatical cricket crowds but hockey gives it a run for it’s money. A big plus for that sport with in a country with a billion people!
      @ Tony I agree the only sport that would come near soccer in China is table tennis.

    • Charles Kelly says:

      08:28am | 22/09/10

      Robert’s comment that “Football has never been popular in this country” would have to one of the most ignorant observations ever. Football is HUGELY popular in this country. Australian Rules Football is HUGELY popular in some states, and Rugby League Football is HUGELY popular in others. Rugby Union Football has a decent following too.

    • Tim says:

      09:39am | 22/09/10

      The guy who says that soccer is the major sport in 99% of the world calls me ignorant and tells me to do some research? Funny.

      And Robert where did I say I was an AFL fan?

    • Robert says:

      10:25am | 22/09/10

      Tim, you said it wasn’t a major sport in those three nations, well it most definitely is in two (China and India) and is growing in the third (USA). Most anti-football people I have met have been AFL fans, for whatever reason. So as you can see I naturally assumed you were one.

      Some of the other comments on here are fantastic though, football has been attacked from all and sundry in this country, yet when someone has a go at AFL, the mob of AFL protectors emerge from the Melbourne swamps (Yarra river) to defend their game.
      Hey AFL fans, someone doesn’t like your game (in fact most people in Australia don’t) deal with it, accept it and move on. I don’t care if you attack football, because football fans are used to it. I think AFL fans are way over sensitive, it’s just a game, I don’t have to like it if I don’t want.

      As for my original post, get a sense of humour guys, not everything in life is supposed to be taken so seriously.

    • S.L says:

      11:17am | 22/09/10

      Without knocking any code AFL has to watch it’s arrogance in such a limited market as Australia. I was talking to an Englishmen who recently settled in Perth. His profered code is Rugby Union so the Western Force gets his bum on a seat. He is also supporting the Glory but (his words) he refuses to watch such a third world game such as Australian Rules because of the way high profile AFL identities such as Demetriou and Sheedy knock other sports to elevate their own. I must admit even though I’m a soccer fan I’ve never heard a bad word about my game from any NRL or ARU official with many high profile players from both codes openly supporting (mostly EPL) soccer teams.

    • Tim says:

      12:05pm | 22/09/10

      Ah Robert,
      I didn’t say it wasn’t a major sport, I said it wasn’t the major sport.

      Your quote:
      “Football will remain the major sport in 99% of the world”.

    • Robert says:

      12:25pm | 22/09/10

      Alright Tim, maybe I got carried away, but you can’t sat you weren’t alluding to the fact it wasn’t popular. Anyway you got me, with my over exuberance.
      As for S.L’s comment, I have to agree in fact that is single handily why I have a problem with the AFL, their attitude. Demetriou runs the AFL like a communist party “you will join or you will die”. Kevin Sheedy’s anti-football comments on the 60 minutes message boards didn’t help. The AFL’s attitude towards Australia’s world cup bid was disgraceful to say the least, claiming they would be kicked out of the MCG for a year, was pure fabrication on their behalf, and the FFA admitted it hurt Australia’s chances of hosting the world cup. Demetriou carries on like a petulant child at times and although I never had a problem with the AFL, I do now. Casual fans such as myself have been utterly turned off the game by this current dictatorship, with their obsession to make AFL take over the world. The constant put downs of the other codes is completely unnecessary and shows signs of fear more than anything else, but look at the A-League it’s dying. What do they have to be afraid of? So why all the scaremongering?

    • Tim says:

      12:48pm | 22/09/10

      Oh I agree with you there.
      Demetriou is a complete tool and the NRL aren’t much better.

    • ImaWestie says:

      12:55pm | 21/09/10

      I’m not a fan of games that in my view way too often result in a 0-0 score-line.

      AFL offered me great value for money this year: three games @ ANZ Stadium for 5, including public transport, $130 (from memory). That was to three games with a lot going on, and plenty of scoring shots.

      Even if they started scoring 5+ goals per game in A-League: it would take a long time for non-fans like me to find out about it!

      The other thing is, in Sydney - it seems to have a hang-over “wog ball” image. It’s something Eastern European people go to watch, it’s something the Serbs and Croats fight about, etc. I’ve never heard of hooliganism being associated with AFL IN SYDNEY (some Melbourne clubs, yes, but not here in Sydney).

      Just my views & opinions as to why I don’t take my whole family of 5 to A-League!

      Reply

    • Steve Smith says:

      01:14pm | 21/09/10

      The quality of the A League is not up to scratch. Whilst young talent does emerge through the ranks, it is just as quickly sent over season with a wad of cash.

      When players have the potential to earn yearly what an NRL/AFL team spend on there entire team… do you blame them?

      Reply

    • frank robb says:

      01:38pm | 21/09/10

      this cant be true. when i was last in oz, the a leauge had just started and the strong tip was that it was going to be the end of aussie rules FOOTBALL. just like the previous threats from the world game, it didnt happen coz no ones interesred. the reason, it’s frigging boring

      Reply

    • td says:

      01:56pm | 21/09/10

      Perhaps some free to air TV coverage of games would help? I know Fox Sports probably gives a heap of funding, but free to air would drum up more interest and could lead to more people knowing it actually exists.

      Just a thought, as not everyone can afford Foxtel/Austar.

      Reply

    • Just Interested says:

      01:58pm | 21/09/10

      1. The standard is dreadful - English third division (‘League 1’) at best.
      2. You can watch the best football in the world on television. Why go to a third grade game?
      3. For what you get it’s too dear to get in.
      4. They play in Summer when its too hot - it’s hardly a surprise that noone goes to games in the middle of a Sunday afternoon on a humid February.
      5. The ‘high net worth individuals’ owning many of the teams are quixotic.
      Net result - a total turn off.

      Reply

    • Dave Hall says:

      03:03pm | 21/09/10

      You’re obviously not “Just Interested”.
      1. The standard is definitely higher than the cloggy, long-ball English third division, prob half way between the Championship and League One.
      2. Don’t you like actually watching live sport?
      3. Prices are an issue, everyone says so so can’t argue here.
      4. Too hot for what? They’re the ones running around - all you have to do is sit and watch, probably with a cold beer in hand. If you don’t like that, you’re unAustralian.
      5. Those individuals have to be quixotic, most of them (Clive Palmer excl.) love the game enough to support their teams from their own wealth. It’s not ideal, but is it any worse than teams getting their cash from the supermassive gambling/drinking black holes that are leagues clubs? And what about Russell Crowe…?

    • Jmo says:

      02:47pm | 21/09/10

      1) High cost. Took my other half to a game & after tix, a beer & a hotdog each I was $85 out of pocket.
      2) Lack of media coverage outside of Foxtel. If I don’t know what’s going on in the A League & I can’t watch any games, I’m not shelling out $85 to go and watch one live.

      Reply

    • Peter says:

      03:31pm | 21/09/10

      I’m a Sydneysider and big sports fan in general. I think part of the problem is its Finals time in the NRL and AFL. But I also think that Aussie sport fans expect to see elite sport. We have the best of the best playing in this country in the other codes, but that’s not the case with the A-League. I follow the the NRL, AFL and the English Premier League. This is 2010, thanks to the power of the internet and pay TV you can watch the sports you want to watch regardless of what country it’s in and what time it’s playing.

      I think it’s naive to expect the A-League to ever bring in crowd numbers that the other codes do. At this point people should settle for just long term survival, and even that’s not guaranteed.

      Reply

    • Hamish says:

      03:51pm | 21/09/10

      The major problem with the A-League is it’s simply not an elite competition. Most Australians who follow soccer have a team they follow overseas. This is because for so long there were no teams in Australia and such a large number of Australian soccer followers are from overseas, or their parents are, so most already have allegiances to other clubs. So, they’re used to a much higher standard of football.

      Even for someone like me who follows overseas leagues (and the A-League) but is fundamentally an AFL dude, it is obvious the A-League is pretty bad. I mean, I watch the A-League and think to myself ‘I could be playing in this game.’

      Until the standard of the league improves, crowds will continue to suffer.

      Reply

    • not fozzie says:

      04:47pm | 21/09/10

      Hamish, “I watch the A-League and think to myself ‘I could be playing in this game”. That’s not that bad, I watch Barcelona and think the same thing.

    • Tezinho says:

      04:24pm | 21/09/10

      I don’t go coz I can’t be bothered travelling all the way into Surry hills to teh SFS. The FFA made a major mistake allowing the clubs to play at massive stadia that cost the earth and look terrible when half (or less) filled. They need to start playing games in the burbs, with more parking, closer to the action and better atmosphere like League used to do. Then they’ll connect with those football fans, and get them out to the game. GRASSROOTS FIRST!!!

      Reply

    • Graham S says:

      04:26pm | 21/09/10

      Put it simply, it’s rubbish. A pansy game played by soft prima donnas whose mom’s wouldn’t let them play Aussie Rules or rugby because the little dears might get their knees dirty or maybe get bumped over, Ever heard the expression; soccer mom’s? Says it all

      Reply

    • Ricardo says:

      05:41pm | 21/09/10

      I can understand you saying rugby is tough, but Aussie rules is not tough at all. Let’s not forget it was a soccer game that ended Ron Barassi’s career, he played all those VFL matches, yet couldn’t last one soccer match, pansy.

    • Tony says:

      06:09pm | 21/09/10

      Trying to pretend Australian football is not tough is like trying to pretend holding your hand in boiling water isn’t painful. Nobody is going to believe you because it’s absurd.

    • Ricardo says:

      07:06pm | 21/09/10

      I think you’ll find plenty of rugby league fans who agree with me. AFL doesn’t have huge hits, it doesn’t have huge shoulder barges and no one ever throws a punch (except Hall, but that’s when the other gut ain’t looking). I’m not getting into a mine is tougher than yours argument, it’s just a fact the AFL is not that tough in comparison to a lot of other contact sports. Ask Ron Barassi if you don’t believe me.

    • Andy says:

      04:47pm | 21/09/10

      As for the point on child participation rates, I played soccer for most of my high school years and enjoyed playing but hate watching the game. This sentiment is common amongst people my age. This summer I will likely play indoor soccer with a mate but I will not watch a game of soccer, be it A-League or EPL.

      The sport is too defensive for my liking, preventing it from being exciting. As soon as the opposition gets near the ball, the team holding the ball will retreat, this problem rarely occurs in AFL with the holding the ball rule, makes it more exciting to watch.

      Reply

    • DMR says:

      04:48pm | 21/09/10

      I think the problem with all professional sports is the money men have got involved and they’re now marketed as ‘entertainment products’ and aim to attract those with short attention spans who demand to be entertained.  These types will be first in line to try something flashy and new, but first to jump ship to something else once the lustre wears off.  Witness the rise of T20 cricket (won’t last, IMO) and the continuous rule changes in the AFL to try and make the game more exciting.

      The A-League may be first to suffer the fallout from this as it’s in a perilous financial state to begin with, but it won’t be the last.  Do you think the new-age AFL fans in Western Sydney who go just to see Israel Folau will stick with the club through the lean patches?

      As to the original question:
      1. We live in the age where the media increasingly tell us what is exciting, so no coverage = no crowds.  I’m a big A-League fan and I still struggle to keep up with the fixtures because it requires such a conscious effort to find out any information about it.
      2. Cost is comparable to AFL/NRL tickets, which is too high when you consider that the players on view in those sports are the world’s best.
      3. Negativity breeds negativity, and there’s currently an awful lot of it about regarding the A-League’s future.
      4. A big part of the soccer experience is the atmosphere, and smaller crowds = less atmosphere = smaller crowds etc

      Reply

    • Davido says:

      04:49pm | 21/09/10

      It is not the only sport to suffer from low crowds - take basketball for instance.

      I would say there are at least a couple of issues here:

      - a lack of media support. The media support is not bad but there is still a lot of soccer bashing;
      - Australians love aggressive sports. The game needs to be played very aggressively.
      - Draws should be taken out of the game. Non-soccer lovers do just not understand the concept. Change the rules. You play until one side wins. You should also get more points for more goals.

      Despite being the dominant game worldwide the sport has to be treated as a niche sport in Australia.

      Reply

    • Daniel says:

      04:58pm | 21/09/10

      The NRL contains the best NRL players in the world. The AFL contains the best AFL players in the world. The Super 14 RU contains a big chunk of the best RU players in the world. The A League doesn’t even have any of Australias best players let alone the best in the world. Its a second rate (if even that) comp the aspires to mediocrity. Its not rocket science.

      Reply

    • Ricardo says:

      06:12pm | 21/09/10

      What a ridiculous comment. The AFL and NRL cannot be compared to football. Those sports aren’t played anywhere else in the world (apart from rugby league in England). You should have replaced the word ‘world’ with ‘Australia’. The A-League can’t compete with the EPL, the Bundesliga, or even the La Liga, in its first five years. You can be the best marbles player in Australia, but if no one else plays it does it really matter?

    • Charles Kelly says:

      08:39am | 22/09/10

      Really Ricardo? So “the AFL and NRL cannot be compared to football”? REALLY??? Guess what genius - they ARE “football” - making YOUR statement the ridiculous one!

    • Ricardo says:

      10:31am | 22/09/10

      Charles, the football versus soccer argument is the lowest of the low. Some people call it football others soccer, if you can’t differentiate between the different codes, it says more about your intelligence than anything else. Clearly I was talking about football being soccer, simple enough for you?

    • Charles Kelly says:

      10:56am | 22/09/10

      Actually Ricardo, anyone insisting on referring to Association Football as simply “football” in Australia is demonstrating an intelligence level that’s “the lowest of the low”.

      It’s ironic that the Rugby codes are regarded as “meathead” sports, when even their supporters are at least intelligent enough to realise the importance of distinguishing their codes from all others. Soccer supporters are embarrassingly alone on that one. Perhaps it’s actually a lack of intelligence that precludes soccer players from capably using both their feet AND their hands?

      The fans and official managing bodies of EVERY code BUT soccer in Australia are well aware that as there is more than one prominent football code in this country, each code NEEDS to have its own point of identification - and while soccer fans remain ignorant of this very simple point, it’s impossible to take them seriously in any capacity.

      Name-wise, the defining factor of the Association Football code is the word “Association” - which was, from the very beginning of the modern game, abbreviated to the nickname “soccer”. If the term “soccer” isn’t used when referring to the code in countries where there is more than one prominent football code, the word “Association” has to be included along with the word “Football” - or another appropriate term will have to be created. Anyone incapable of displaying such basic common sense deserves to be treated like the ignorant illiterate fool they obviously are.

    • Ricardo says:

      11:29am | 22/09/10

      Charles, I’m well aware of how the term soccer came to be.It doesn’t change the fact that to some people it will always be football. Simply calling it soccer won’t make it popular, in fact you would do well to remember it was called the National soccer league, before the A-League. As I said it’s a silly argument, brought up by people who want to try and get one over on ‘soccer’. The game doesn’t need to be called soccer to differentiate itself from other codes, as it is a completely different game. In fact maybe it is rugby league that should change it’s name from football, as its (and union’s) name originated from the word ruga. That is why it was called rugby league, not football league.

    • Charles Kelly says:

      12:27pm | 22/09/10

      I don’t know WHERE you get your information from Ricardo, but you’re SERIOUSLY ill-informed!

      Association Football (soccer) is an offshoot of the football game more commonly known today as Rugby*. Originally the game of football was a lot more aggressive and physical, and of course hands were used. That was until various members of the original Football Association (of which Rugby clubs were founding members) decided to wrap the game in cotton wool - prompting clubs who preferred to stay with the ORIGINAL rules to leave the organisation.

      *Named after Rugby School - NOT “originated from the word ruga” Ricardo. WTF???

    • Ricardo says:

      02:12pm | 22/09/10

      Sorry Charles, my bad that’s rugger, not ruga. From the dictionary: rugger (Team Sports / Rugby) Chiefly Brit an informal name for rugby. You are plain wrong, the game association football was the first game to be played, but an argument broke out as some players wanted to use their hands. The first person to do this did it at the rugby school, where the game was given the nickname rugger. Any history book or website will inform you that I am correct on this, in fact I read two books and visited three websites just to make sure. You’re version of events is not backed up by history or truth. Are you really Peter Fitzsimmons?

    • Charles Kelly says:

      05:18pm | 22/09/10

      WRONG again Ricardo. Aren’t you at least a little embarrassed?

      The nickname “rugger” comes from Rugby Football - just like “soccer” comes from Association Football.

      You’re actually gullible enough to believe the William Webb Ellis MYTH??? Really???

      The world’s oldest football club is a RUGBY club. The original Rugby Football rules were written 15 years BEFORE the original Association Football rules.

      The original Football Association was formed by, and consisted of, teams playing football according to various rules - NONE of which were the “round ball game” rules as we know them today. Many of these teams were Rugby teams. The rules of Rugby were written in 1848, and the original rules of Association Football were written in 1963 when various members of the Football Association complained that the game was too rough, and wanted to change the rules to outlaw the more physical aspects of the game. Many members of the Football Association objected to this insistence that the game of football be played in a less manly fashion, and this caused a split within the Association. This is when the rules of Football Association were written. Even then, the rules were not as we know them today - the use of hands was gradually phased out over time.

      Wise up Ricardo, before you embarrass yourself even further.

    • Ricardo says:

      07:02pm | 22/09/10

      Charles why would I be embarrassed when I have the truth on my side? It’s called history, I’ve read the books, I’ve read the websites, in fact the only piece of information I can find to back up your argument, is what you yourself have written. You can yell, you can scream, you can get carried away all you like, but myself and history are against you. Soccer didn’t have rules till 1963, now that is a statement that should make you blush. I mean world cup football goes as far back as the 1930’s when Uruguay won, yet you claim they didn’t have rules then. And they certainly weren’t using their hands in those games.
      Your childish argument bores me, anyone who wants to look into the history of the sport can do a simple google search and find the answers for themselves. Try to relax, try to enjoy your life a little more, and don’t be ashamed up that you bought into false myths, after all some people believe in Scientology.

    • Charles Kelly says:

      08:24am | 23/09/10

      I see mathematics isn’t your strong point EITHER Ricardo.

      CLEARLY my “1963” is a typo - PROVEN by the fact I’d ALREADY stated that “The original Rugby Football rules were written 15 years BEFORE the original Association Football rules” - and that “The rules of Rugby were written in 1848”. Too hard for you? I’ll give you a hint - what’s 1848 plus 15? Use your fingers if you have to.

      If, as you dubiously claim, you’d actually “read the books”, you’d already know for a FACT that the date was 1863 - in either case, it’s pathetically apparent you’re desperately grasping at straws as your feeble attempt at an argument falls apart around you. I encourage everyone reading this to “do a simple google search and find the answers for themselves” - because they’ll all find out what a FRAUD you are.

      After all, YOU were the person who genuinely expected people to believe that the name “Rugby” was derived from “rugger” (or “ruga” as YOU said), and not the other way around!!! Truly pathetic.

      Yes, that’s right. YOU, Ricardo - the person who actually stated that “the AFL and NRL cannot be compared to football”, irrespective of the irrefutable FACT that both those codes ARE “football”!!! That’s like saying apples and oranges “cannot be compared to” fruit. How sad.

    • Steve says:

      05:01pm | 21/09/10

      Look at the entry price for starters, then look at the style of the game that gets played in Oz.  Last weeks round showed 1 game of European standard, bloody fantastic to watch, yet you balance that against 3-4 games that had major yawn factors… The teams will play to win, the league needs teams to play to entertain.

      Reply

    • James Roundtree says:

      05:11pm | 21/09/10

      The A-League is something very unique in the sporting scene of Australia. What makes the A-League different is that you and all your mates support the same team. I’m a Hawks supporter and I go to a few games with 2 mates that also support Hawthorn. I go to Victory games with 15 - 20 mates every week. It is so much easier when we all support the same team. While this is a positive, a big problem is the quality of football and how bloody slow it is compared to the EPL .
      Also, while I know it is financially impossible, each team needs it’s own rectangular stadium, with a max attendance of 15,000 - 20,000. No one wants to go to a soccer game with 7,000 people in a 50,000 seat stadium, there is no atmosphere. Crowds in the Championship in England are between 10,000 - 20,000 and that league does fine. We don’t need 50,000 crowds, even 17,000 would do.
      But the biggest problem by far is the FFA’s advertising of the game. It is a complete disgrace that the FFA won’t spend money on promoting the game, especially during AFL and NRL seasons. They need to tackle (no pun intended) the AFL head on. I see advertising very rarely, it’s time to sack the FFA’s marketing department.
      They should also revoke Newcastle and Gold Coast’s licences as their crowds are a disgrace and they do not deserve a team. Their populations clearly don’t want the team so why not try Tasmania or Canberra?

      Reply

    • Razor says:

      06:04pm | 21/09/10

      Same reasons why all other sports such as basket ball, cycling, golf don’t draw big crowds - you aren’t watching the best in the world.  The best athletes in these sports compete where the big money is and that isn’t in Australia and you can see them on TV.

      A-League will never consistently draw large crowds until it has world class players and I can’t see that ever happening.

      And I haven’t even got into what a crap game it is anyway.

      Reply

    • mike matheson says:

      06:23pm | 21/09/10

      Soccer = fun to play, less fun to watch.
      AFL = fun to watch, less fun to play.
      NRL = boring to play, even more boring to watch.

      Reply

    • Mick says:

      07:01pm | 21/09/10

      The WA final series finishes 1st week of October, I go to the a-league after that & October start is 1 thing nsl did well.

      I used to buy a membership in the NSL & when the state league started I could always give somebody the membership to attend as I knew along way in advance.

      I have never purchased a membership for the a-league as the season starts too early & is hard for me devoting 2 days or 1 long day to the game is poor weather

      Reply

    • MBG says:

      07:17pm | 21/09/10

      Not sure what the attendance figures were, but my husband and son were disappointed that the A-league didn’t visit Canberra this year.  My husband and I were brought up on AFL, but NRL is the dominant code at school; soccer is the common ground.

      Reply

    • Kevin Gold Coast says:

      07:35pm | 21/09/10

      Stop the rot by stop trading our talent! Shane Smelts is a good example of the poor decisions made by clubs and owners,during the middle of a competition. Well in saying that do you feel the loss of interest by supporters.

      Reply

    • Gregg says:

      11:03pm | 21/09/10

      Followers of four sports can only be split four ways and a fifth has never had the muscle to muscle in to what we’ve been born and bred on.
      AFL, NRL, AR, C and that’s not even using B for Basketball.
      We just don’t give a Rats Arse for the Soccer.
      The Tour de Frogs is even more fun!

      Reply

    • Charles Kelly says:

      08:51am | 22/09/10

      David Hall asks a supposedly “genuine question” - “Why don’t football fans go to games?”

      So here’s a genuine answer - the problem’s with the question in th efirst place, because football fans DO go to games. They go to games in their tens of thousands. Football is one of, if not THE, most popular spectator sports in Australia - just not soccer.

      Reply

    • Ricardo says:

      10:33am | 22/09/10

      I guess people are too bust taking their kids to play football (soccer to you) as it’s the biggest participation sport in Australia. They may not attend A-League matches, but they play it in their hundreds of thousands. The question is how do they get all those players to the games.

    • unsure says:

      11:07am | 22/09/10

      Everybody is saying Free to Air television coverage is the key. I feel this could be a disadvantage however, as the ticket prices are so high. It leaves me wondering why I would pay exorbitant ticket prices if I can watch the game for free in the comfort of my house. Free to air will only work if tickets prices are lowered.
      I also feel the development of juniors is hampering the overall football experience, we used to produce Viduka’s and Bresciano’s and Chipperfield’s, and now we rave about mediocre players coming through. I feel people would be willing to pay to see the next Australian who is going to become a European superstar, but at the moment they expect us to pay to watch 35 year old players who couldn’t cut it in Europe.

      Reply

    • Glenn says:

      12:04pm | 22/09/10

      Why does anyone involved in a particular sport, claim their sport has the highest participation rate in the country or the world?...everytime someone brings up soccer, netball, basketball, V8 car racing, horse racing, AFL - it’s instantly nominated as the most popular / most participated / most watched sport, this side of the planet Koosbane? what gives??
      I’m no nuclear physicist - but my guess would be people dont go to A-League matches - because they don’t want too?

      Reply

    • Aussie Jack says:

      12:23pm | 22/09/10

      Ah.Soccer, an hour and a half of kicking the ball backwards and sideways,occasionly giving it a belt with the head, hoping someone might actually score. Boring.Boring. Boring.

      Reply

    • Pat Hill says:

      03:12pm | 22/09/10

      These franchises are less than 10 years old. When people go to an A-League game they go to support their particular team. If real passion for a team is there the fans will go. The general public are not going to attend if they have little passion and heart for their team and the theatre goers are certainly not going to fork out their hard earned dollars if the spectacle doesn’t hold a candle to what they can see on TV.  These teams have little history, no legacies and few tales passed down through family and friends. There is so much passion when we flock in huge numbers to Socceroos games. It’s going to take a hell of a lot more time, money and resources to get the A-League right - just look at how long it took the AFL to establish teams in Sydney and Brisbane. They both took WELL over a decade to even start repaying back all the money and resources invested in the clubs.

      Reply

    • Frog says:

      04:23pm | 22/09/10

      I used to be a Dutchman, loved the soccer, followed Ajax and FC Groningen.  I have seen the likes of Cruyff, Neeskens, Rep, Swart and de Kerkhof and Koeman brothers play, in front of me on the pitch.  Those were the days when kids were prepared to put on a boot and kick a ball.  Those were exciting games, even if they did end in nil all draws.  They were the games I went to see, week in, week out.  That was the game I played myself, week in week out, for 14 years.  That was the game I was a youth leader for and a referee (in training).  But I gave it all away, easily, and I have never looked back.  I have often been invited to go and see a match, I have just as often refused to go.  And now you are asking, and I am refusing again.  Soccer is no longer soccer.  Soccer is a millionaires game, where protecting an investment is more important than playing the game.  Since soccer players have been getting million pound/dollar/franc/lira contracts, all clubs are looking for is to make sure that their stars stay on the field.  Whether he does anything or not, isn’t important - the stature of having the most expensive import is more important.  Imagine paying 20 million for a player and have him go down in the first game, injured and out for the rest of the season ... So soccer needed to find a way to get these guys to stay on the field - There’d be riots in English soccer every week if they didn’t ... ummm ... oh ... hang on, too late.  Ah well, enter weak-as-**** referees.  Blind ones at that.  The most blatant diving, staging and crying is now regarded as free kick material.  Yellow and Red cards abound in games.  But, at all cost, we must protect the million dollar/pound/frank/lira investments.  And it’s working.  The stars stay, the public keeps coming, the public keeps buying next year’s jumper and the clubs get richer so they can get the next big thing.  Not a singular thought for the supporter that actually makes the clubs exist (same for AFL, same for NRL, same for any code I suppose).  The game, soccer, is a joke - simply and elegantly put (and I’ll repeat that in case you missed it) - Soccer is a joke.  How about I’ll let you know when I am ready to pay exorbitant entry fees or club memberships, new jumpers, guernseys and colours every year (twice, home and away strips), over the top car parking, petrol (or expensive public transport), just to see a game of (free) kick to (free) kick between a number of overpaid idiots that think they are God’s gift to being able to control a ball.  Sorry guys, soccer died in the 70’s and 80’s - There is no way known you are going to get me back in this lifetime.  Oh, and bad news travels fast - I keep telling others not to waste their time.  Maybe I’ve kept a lot of people away from your game.  Time you pulled your head out of your proverbial and went back to playing soccer.  Maybe in 30 years you’ll have a half decent competition again - If the rest of the world hasn’t given up on you by then.

      Reply

    • Jeff Bateman says:

      11:28am | 23/09/10

      Why is no-one turning up? Is that even a question? The problem is it’s soccer. I’ve watched games of chess that provide a more vigorous viewing experience. In Australia, we are men, and men don’t play soccer.

      Reply

    • Mick says:

      01:16pm | 23/09/10

      You got to package it up, look at Brownlow medal, for 176 matches you hear J-Smith 1 vote, r-Poot 2 votes, W-Kerr 3 votes, boring as but people watch it as they say it is exciting

      Reply

    • Lewy says:

      02:35pm | 24/09/10

      Well reading through the comments we can see a couple of distinct reasons cropping up.

      1) I’m a soccer fan and the quality is sub-standard
      2) I’m a soccer fan but I want a club with history
      3) I’m a other sport fan and thats way better than soccer LOL OMG ZOMG BBQ WTF

      I think the A-League takes itself a bit too seriously, it’s as though it hopes to one day rival leagues in other countries. So instead of whining that only 2,000 people show up at the Gold Coast (which I’m sure has nothing to do with capping numbers), why not use that as a chance to get the fans on foeld post game for a kick with the players, bet you cant do that in the EPL. Rather than trying to develop international standard football why not Australian-ize the rules a little (you’re probably chocking on your anger but let me explain). If most of the players aren’t in the international squad and are there as either has beens or never will-be’s than the administration can use the league as a test bed for game changes. De-restrict the bench to allow a number of rotations, have ball-ups instead of penalty’s for iffy infringements, allow the replacement of sent of players to make it a more mobile attacking game. I think A-League should understand its niche in the market and use it more effectively than trying to imitate what happens in other countries where 2/3 of the population follows the sport.

      Reply

    • John says:

      08:36pm | 26/10/10

      It’s simple. the talent in the A league is disgusting. There not talented players there just picked because they know someone. Get talented players who deserve to be there playing. And then I would go to a game.

      Reply

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      05:29pm | 08/08/11

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