“The willingness of future generations to serve in our military will be directly dependent upon how we have treated those who have served in the past.”  George Washington.

They protect us. When will we protect them? Photo: Sam Mooy

So the politicians have seen fit to grant themselves another pay rise. No, sorry, the Federal Remuneration Tribunal has granted them a pay rise and they have accepted its ruling. Changing the legislation to say no is apparently not an option.

What many may not realise is that politician pay rises benefit not just current politicians, but all qualifying pre-2004 retired politicians. If those retired politicians are survived by their spouse this pay rise also goes to them.

Such are the terms of the pre-2004 Parliamentary Contributory Superannuation Scheme (PCSS) – which must be irresistible if you’re entitled to it. Our troops certainly aren’t. They can’t even get the indexation they were guaranteed when enlisting.

You may not have noticed yet, but you will. The troops - current and retired - are angry.

Retirees receiving military superannuation pensions are struggling to maintain their standard of living because of inadequate indexation.  Ninety per cent of the 63,000 military pensioners are receiving less than $30,000 a year; the average being $23,000. What’s more, that money is taxed even if they are over 60 years old.

Those who volunteered to serve in the Australian Defence Force were promised an indexed military superannuation pension that would maintain its purchasing power as part of their employment “contract”. This “guarantee” has been given since 1977.

Before 1977, the Defence Force Retirement and Death Benefit Scheme (DFRDB) and the earlier Schemes obtained increases retrospectively through ad hoc legislation introduced at the whim of the government. The automatic “safeguarding” of their pension through the Consumer Price Index (CPI) initiative which, from the seventies to the early nineties, correctly captured cost of living increases, meant military superannuation pensions automatically retained value – employer obligations were met. 

When age pensioners saw their purchasing power diminish, new indexation arrangements were progressively adopted, beginning in 1997.  But the troops were abandoned.

Over the last ten years, age pensions have increased by 95 per cent. Politician’s pensions have increased well over 100 per cent (factoring in this latest pay rise). Retired military payments have increased by a paltry 33 per cent.

DFRDB recipients, plus about four thousand still serving under that scheme, are left wondering what they did wrong.

The consequence of this employer neglect on veterans is profound. In real terms our retired troops are sliding into poverty with many now having to rely on welfare safety nets to survive.

Take Major Ben McGuinnes who retired in 1987 after 21 years in the Army on a salary of $38,584.  He received an initial pension of $14,083 per annum indexed to CPI.  In 2011, 24 years into retirement, he now receives $27,331.  If either he or his wife work that income is also taxed at the marginal rate even though both are over 60. 

That’s how a senior officer is impacted by unfair indexation; imagine what the troops are getting; a Sergeant retiring after 21 years in 1989 received $10,442.

Farcically, the “Military Super Book” (current edition) states: “Pensions are subject to full CPI updating every six months (ensuring that $1 in 2011 will be equivalent to $1 in 2028).”  I believe the Government knows that is deliberately misleading. The veteran community certainly knows it (from bitter experience) and there is growing awareness of the lie among those still serving.

An even starker injustice is the discriminatory treatment of a spouse following the death of a retired military member. Their spouse receives 62.5 per cent of their partner’s entitlements.The spouse of a politician receives 83.3 per cent. Why the disparity?

How in this staunchly democratic society, with its abundant wealth, enshrinement of the concept of “a fair go” for all, and with the Parliament’s unambiguous acknowledgement of the unique nature of military service, can Governments maltreat those who served our Nation in the national interest for twenty years or more. 

George Washington undeniably comprehended the National importance of fairly treating those who have served in uniform - wisdom that has evaded Australia’s political elite for decades.

323 comments

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    • Erick says:

      05:08am | 12/01/12

      Hear, hear! Politicians and top bureaucrats have their snouts in the trough. Let’s have a few less public servants in top administrative and management positions, a bit less money wasted on worthless committees and inquiries - and a bit more for the guys at the sharp end.

      We could eliminate overseas junkets for a start. In the age of telecommuting, we don’t need to generate carbon dioxide by sending government employees to “conferences” in luxury resorts.

    • Mahhrat says:

      07:18am | 12/01/12

      Absolutely seconded.  Anyone that stands the wall so I don’t have to should be paid an absolute motza and be looked after when their 20 years is done.

    • SimonFromLakemba says:

      08:23am | 12/01/12

      +3

    • The righteous one says:

      08:23am | 12/01/12

      have to agree with this strongly.

    • Fred says:

      09:06am | 12/01/12

      We should have a corporation tax that goes straight to the people in the defence force.

    • Jack says:

      09:24am | 12/01/12

      By ‘stand on that wall’, I presume you mean lounge around in Russell with heavily subsidised housing, meals, alcohol and so on.

      The closest most of these guys get to ‘danger’ is glassing someone at Mooseheads.

    • Shooter says:

      09:25am | 12/01/12

      Hear Hear. Well said Eric. We should all support our brave men and women in the ADF. To my brother and my mates God be with you.

    • Nafe says:

      09:25am | 12/01/12

      Agreed….. with ALL the above

    • LDLS says:

      09:35am | 12/01/12

      +4
      Brilliant summation and great article

    • richards says:

      10:07am | 12/01/12

      Ever notice how everything is so simple for simple people?

      People in positions of power, such as politicians and judges, need to be well remunerated to guard against the risk of corruption. In any case, my understanding of the “pay rise” is it was largely a restructuring rather than a pure increase and any rise was less significant than is being made out.

      By they way, most people working in the armed forces are pencil pushers.

    • Jane2 says:

      10:34am | 12/01/12

      Jack, most of the uniforms at Russell have spent time in Afghanistan or Iraq or similar conflict zones.

      As for the subsidised alcohol, its not subsidised its tax free while consumed in the premises. At Russell there isnt one at all any more. It was closed to save money.

      There is no subsidised meals anymore at Russell, also closed to save money. There is just a commercial cafeteria.

      What you are saying may be true of the Defence force of 20 years ago but its definately not truw of todays Defence force

    • Tim says:

      10:35am | 12/01/12

      Exactly Jack,
      most of the people in the armed forces aren’t in any danger of anything more than a sore bum.
      The only “sharp end” they see is the end of their pencil.

    • TheRealDave says:

      10:38am | 12/01/12

      Ahh so we need to ‘pay more’ to guard against corruption of elected officials, judiciary officials but not give a crap about those that carry around automatic weapons and hevy weapons platforms etc

      Aren’t we all lucky one of those groups isn’t motivated by self interest and has the professionalism, dedicated and passion to do their jobs - regardless of the pay and privelidges for ALL Australians then??.

    • AJ says:

      11:06am | 12/01/12

      @ richards i was in the army for 8 years and i can assure you that regardless of your trade or job you are a soldier first. Most of the people i served with even though we were mostly tradies were deployed at least once, some of them several times. The only exception to being deployed was if like me you were injured. Maybe you should get your facts straight before you comment.

      My dad served in the army for 23 years and even though i only served for 8 the part pension i get due to my injury is still more than what he gets even though he was a sergeant and i was a private and it has been 17 years since he discharged. Something really needs to be done to make it a lot fairer.

    • Ric C says:

      11:38am | 12/01/12

      The unique nature of our service has been deliberately overlooked by our politicians even though they resolved a motion to accept that uniqueness.  I have little faith in any politician regardless of party and the only way we will achieve what is owed to us is through public recognition and support.  I support Peter Criss and the team at the “Fair Go campaign"to the hilt.  Without them we would achieve nothing.

    • nihonin says:

      12:18pm | 12/01/12

      Tim & Jack, so very brave of you to post your comments from the safety of your homes or an internet cafe sitting in front of a computer.

    • Nathan Explosion says:

      01:46pm | 12/01/12

      For once I agree with Erick.

      I *am* a public servant, and in the face to face/customer service areas. The SES have *no* idea what we do or what our clients want; they’re too busy jetting to and from Canberra on a business class flight and staying in plush hotels with Travel Allowance, while we don’t even get coffee and tea supplied.

      If SES in every agency would just bloody video conference instead of flying everywhere more of that money could go to people like veterans, health and aged care, hospitals and education. Much more worthy.

    • Tim says:

      01:55pm | 12/01/12

      nilhonin,
      yes just like the vast majority of the defence force and yourself - safe.

      I’ve got no problem with adequately compensating people who are willing to put themselves into harms way but this myth that large numbers of people in the defence force are at the “pointy end” is completely false.
      I’ve got many friends in the defence force and yes most of them have been posted overseas into combat zones.
      All have come back and said although there is some risk, it’s a manageable risk. They were all paid hansomely for their work.

    • marley says:

      02:22pm | 12/01/12

      @Tim - so, exactly what dangers are the Age Pensioners and the MPs facing that they deserve a higher indexing system than the military?

    • Tim says:

      02:55pm | 12/01/12

      Marley,
      where did I say that age pensioners or politicians should have higher indexing?
      I think they should all be on the lower system.

    • marley says:

      03:12pm | 12/01/12

      @Tim - but for me, that’s the issue - the inequity of having two systems, with the military on the lower one.  That just ain’t right.

    • Tim says:

      03:23pm | 12/01/12

      Marley,
      we can agree on that.
      There should definitely be equity in the systems for all forms of pensioners.

    • Fred Lane says:

      03:23pm | 12/01/12

      Yes, we were told by the then Minister of the Navy, Jim Killen, during his visit to HMAS Melbourne in 1969 , that all the pre-1951 DFRB contributors would be refunded their pension overpayments, then totalling more than “seven million pounds”.
      Like my fellow servicemen, I have yet to see one penny of that amount.
      After serving 27 years and retiring as a LCDR, the value of my own remaining pension (commuted to fund my further education) is gradually being whittled away.
      My (RN) divisional officer in 1948, who had some actuarial experience, correctly described the pension scheme as the “McMahon Robbery Act.”
      Times have not changed.

    • Jack says:

      03:29pm | 12/01/12

      @nihonin - congratulations on the classic SUPPORT OUR TROOPS-esque meaningless statement. How does me being in an office or a coffee shop have anything to do with the fact that 90% of the defence force is not ‘on the wall’, yet gets a whole swathe of benefits anyway?  Anyone with friends in the ADF (of which I have many) knows how ridiculous it is.

      Or are the guys in Russell the thin red line between my latte and those evil terrists?

    • nihonin says:

      04:28pm | 12/01/12

      @Tim and Jack, I was in the armed forces, still have friends serving as well.  I’ve never heard the same as you have concerning, the ridiculous entitlements from my friends still serving, but then again I guess it may depend on which part of the armed services they are serving.

    • Still Serving says:

      07:42pm | 12/01/12

      @ Tim and Jack - I’m still serving guys and it saddens me to hear your disdain of our military forces, these are the very people that give you the right to have that disdain. I have served for a great many years ( on deployments as well as at home). You seem to think that all the military is good for is going to war. but there is a lot more it does than that. Aid to the community in natural disasters for example. These people sign their rights away to “Serve” this country. That means going and doing regardless of the hour of day or day of the week. No unions, no “Doona” days. Just shut up and get on with it. This is a job where we are on call 24/7. with no overtime, time and a half, double time and a half. Their service is uniquie, and until you stand up and be counted, you really can’t comment on what any of our service people do. There are time when they push pencils and there are times when they stand on the wall. there are times when they are away from their families for years with only a few visits within each year. You have picked on one office in one city and branded our entire military force. That’s pretty sad. If I were you I would read the statement quoted at the top of the article. then have a think about where in the worl our country is located. What if, because our pollies have treated us so poorly that we have to disband our troops? Think of the consequences before spout that we are over paid and on less than $30k per year as a pension that does not keep up with the cost of living.

    • Leigh Boileau says:

      10:04am | 13/01/12

      I spent 20 years in the RAAF and made compulsory contributions to DFRB but the government now says that my DFRB superannuation is unfunded.
      I’d like to be treated as an ordinary pensioner. I’d certainly be better off.
      Thank you for an excellent article.

    • David Penna says:

      10:49am | 13/01/12

      Great work Chris.
      The issue isii well known by all of us on military pensions. Perhaps in order to put more pressure on the politicians, it would help if this was to be to be taken up by all of the retired CDF’s and Service chiefs, in order to make the pollies listen.
      Any spouse of a person killed on active service should be entitled to the same death benefit as the politicians who sent the deceased person into action.
      Regards

    • jenfmnanaglen says:

      11:27am | 13/01/12

      I could easily fit that Major’s description with the exception I was forcibly medically discharged!

      Pollies really have got their snouts in the trough to think they deserve the huge salaries they get for the little sacrifice they make, comparted to soldiers away on the other side of the world, not just the other side of the country!

      Bob Brown and the other useless Leftees can always hitch a ride home on a RAAF jet whenever or get a first class commercial flight at our expense.

      What do our troops get? Didly squat by comparison.  The guys that set the rules would never be able to live on what we got in service and could never survive on our retirement pay.

      People around the world are protesting about unfair treatment, maybe tis time we did the same.  No more taxes that strip what little some of us have!

    • Freddy says:

      05:14pm | 13/01/12

      @ Jack who says ‘By ‘stand on that wall’, I presume you mean lounge around in Russell with heavily subsidised housing, meals, alcohol and so on. The closest most of these guys get to ‘danger’ is glassing someone at Mooseheads.’

      I assume you have done a lot to defend this country. I (and most of my colleagues) have deployed at least 5 times in the past 10 years for longer than 6 months into countries and situations that would make armchair critics like you mess your pants. The very fact that you are able to comment freely is attributed to the sacrifices defence members and families make every day on behalf of the people of Australia. 32 of our brave men have given their lives for this country in our recent most operation, and I personally knew and worked with 22 of them. Not one of them worked in Russell offices, or would waste their time glassing someone at Mooseheads. I suggest you wipe your chin Jack, because you still have a little bit of crap on it.

    • Proud Army supporter - but get our troops out of t says:

      04:07pm | 14/01/12

      Ok Richards, I’ll just say that to my friend who just came back from Afghanistan injured - he’ll be glad to know he was a pencil pusher, according t the “majority”. Or my friend who just returned from Timor. Or the other one back from Afghan. Hmm, that’s three for three. Pencil pushers? You’re dreaming - these people put their lives on the liine each and every day for your freedom and you have the nerve to make generalisations? I[m just sorry I was out of the country at the time this was originally posted, because chances are you won’t see this now. My grandfather spent a few years in Changi. My mate back from Afghanistan just watched his best mate get shot by a rogue soldier. And you dare to make some flippant comment? You should be ashamed. Each and every ANZAC day I say a quiet prayer thanking those that sacrifice everything for their country. Being away from their family for years on end, spending time in constant danger, the psychological damage they suffer (which I’m sure you’ve never thought about - each and every soldier suffers from it, believe me). You should be ashamed.

    • Tony Murray WOE RAAF Retired says:

      12:28am | 16/01/12

      I served for 25 years and am under DFRB and DFRDB am a malaya and viet vet I thoroughly stand behind Peter Criss Because his Stand is mainly about us We have Been Ripped off and Lied to long Enough We and our other cohorts were a good Team during the 50’ thru the 80.sand those of us who are still vertical should get right behind this fight for a fair go
      Ps to ms st michelle and wearestardust any time u want to meet me in the street and discuss this instead of hiding behind nom de plumes i would be happy to accomadate u

    • John says:

      06:01pm | 21/01/12

      I agree with the comments on the rate of the defence pensions compared to the politicians. Where’s the justice and it appears to be a blatant case of discrimination.

    • Mark says:

      10:24pm | 13/02/12

      The Defence force is a joke. You’re supposed to get free medical and dental I’ve recenctly discharged and for 3 months I had my dental appointment booked it was cancelled twice at a days notice and in the end i never got my appointment i was told i would need to see a civillian densist. What a joke!

    • world hater says:

      05:08pm | 02/03/12

      and of course wasting tax payers dollars funding projects that are run by multinationals who make billions. In other words to politicians paying the bonuses of the guys that helped get them into power. The system is complete bullshit, only serving and perpetuating the rich. but one thing is lucky, in Australia at least we havent shot protesting veterans as they did in the USA

    • john says:

      05:31pm | 02/03/12

      @still serving.I respect and admire people who have the courage to join the armed forced and serve to possibly give their life for the benefit of others they probably don’t even know or never will, that is the highest honour.
      But to me it’s really a sham, I believe the armed forces are there and only there these days, well for at least a couple of hundred years, to invade another country and to control the ground and defeat “rebels” (nationalist forces/movements not loyal to US/British/Nato) in order to control natural resources for the benefit or western corporations (same goes for any other country that is not in Nato, or affiliated with Anglo corporations), to artificially control prices by damaging supply lines etc (like Iraq booming crude to record levels etc). So anyone in Australia who joins the army should know this because information is free here and we are a very well educated country, the army is only there to secure contracts for the elite corporations, or to secure trade deals (as with Aust entering Afghanistan, US went there for lithium, heroin and a billion dollar pipe line, which of course they tried to secure way before sep 11 and were bombing the country outside of war before sep 11, all because they wanted to build a pipeline). So I think anyone who joins the army should be aware of this, that they are entering Iraq and that their government is funnelling exorbitant amounts of money into private contracts while the troops get paid fuck all. This is how it is a scam, sorry hard to explain here. Send troops in, secure facilities, resources etc, private contractors come in at tax payers’ expense, over charge government of course as is always the case, corrupt minister signs the deal, corporations makes massive profit, government borrows off the banks that own the corporations who secured the contract, tax payers pay back interest on bonds and in perpetuity if the government can never refinance. That is war to me, just business. The only war that was legitimate, even now I see many conflicting events arise, was WWII, to stop genocide of anyone is the most important thing, every other war could best be described as resource grabs, or empire expansions, NOT LEGITIMATE. 


      By saying this I mean no disrespect for people in the armed service, but I commend you still as most of you are great people and I hope you understand, but if you make general I am sure that you will ?

    • Parlay says:

      05:16am | 12/01/12

      It’s about time Veterans were treated with decency in this country.

    • Bill Murray says:

      06:06am | 12/01/12

      Don’t hold you breath Parlay, there’s nothing new in this. My service in the Vietnam era convinced me that the greatest interest politicians have in the military relates to the photo opportunities provided by dressing up in fancy-dress fatigues and being seen rubbing shoulders with soldiers as if they actually care. I strongly suspect they enthusiastically turn up at soldiers’ funerals for much the same reason.

    • SimonFromLakemba says:

      08:25am | 12/01/12

      Always thought the same thing Bill, highlighted by Abbott in the bomb suit a few months ago. Also the military visits overseas has become a political football these days, each side having a dig at the other about when they go etc.

      I think they care when soldiers die and come to funerals, be a bit heartless if they didn’t.

    • colroe says:

      09:54am | 12/01/12

      Thank you Peter Criss, for the article.  Parlay, as an ex Servicemen I can only hope, that before I die, the Government will honor its promises to us, and treat us fairly and with decency.  It hurts me to see Gillard and others lining up for photo shoots at funerals and using mealy mouthed words in support of servicemen, and then behind the publics back treating them with the utmost disdain.

    • Sapper says:

      01:48pm | 12/01/12

      There’s a quick glimpse of Gillard waddling along in camoufage through a war zone in the title clip to Insiders on ABC, what a useless bloody joke. You wonder whether the ABC has caught on to the irony of it all, but I doubt it. I can just imagine the plane load of public servants, media advisors and photographers along for the ride.

    • John says:

      05:48pm | 12/01/12

      Parlay, you say all that must be said in a few words.  Politicians treat themselves to everything that makes their lives easy.  Unlike ADF people, they take no personal risks but ensure that they, and/or their widows, live high on the hog for the rest of their lives after a short time of so-called service to the country.

    • 36 years in uniform and proud says:

      09:23pm | 12/01/12

      “Jack” or whoever you are, you are displaying gross ignorance. I hope for your sake you never need the assistance of the ADF during a flood or bushfire or other emergency. If you knew anything about the ADF you would know that most of the ADF members serving in demanding and very important jobs at Russell have served overseas or in key operational support roles.  It irks me that people like you get to enjoy such a comfortable life in Australia without doing YOUR bit to serve the country - and you don’t need to wear a uniform to serve the country. People like you make me sick to the core!

    • Ex Grunt says:

      06:55am | 13/01/12

      Tim and Jack…maybe u should volunteer to do wat those lads are doin over in the sand pit…but i guess not…no spine i’m guessing.

    • Against the Man says:

      05:34am | 12/01/12

      Well, the PM isn’t going to address this so that is that. Notice she has been on the down low since X’mas? Guess she is hoping this will improve her poll standing. No excuses either the PM does something or not, excuses at this stage are pointless, results are the only thing that counts.

    • Nathan says:

      06:56am | 12/01/12

      Every opportunity isn’t it….are you a little slow? Bring it back on topic for once

    • Against the Grain says:

      07:53am | 12/01/12

      village idiot, this one is.

    • Don King says:

      07:57am | 12/01/12

      Can’t deny it though Nathan. Where the bloody hell is the PM? And if she isn’t going to make a stand for our service man and women who will. Keep the pressure on ATM and don’t let these bastards get you down!

    • James1 says:

      09:13am | 12/01/12

      Sadly, no one Don.  This has been going on for a long time - my father in law had to fight for ten years to even get his active service in Vietnam recognised so that he could access the health benefits and pension we is entitled to.  That was during the Howard government.  If Howard was unwilling to do anything about it, then no one will.

    • Shooter says:

      09:31am | 12/01/12

      Against the Man have you been to holdsworthy army base. When Howard was PM he didnt spend any money on the ADF and they were paid nothing compared to now. I am not a Labor, Liberal or Green voter either. You are a disgrace to bring politics into it. Tell me what the Liberal Party did when they were in government to support our troops. My little brother and his and my mates are in the ADF they have done tours of, Timor, Iraq & the Ghan.

    • Soldier 22 says:

      11:55am | 12/01/12

      FFS! If the PM isn’t going to do anything what is the point of having her around? She can pick up a phone and get the right people to review this situation. As someone who was in the army I just want the politicians to actually deal with the hard shit and stop ignoring the situation.

      And against the grain, thanks for being a disloyal idiot, God knows where the likes of you were bred!

    • Babs says:

      01:56pm | 12/01/12

      I’ve seen the PM several times, on TV and in the flesh. She’s been attending memorial services in Queensland for flood victims so she’s not exactly hiding out.

    • acotrel says:

      05:35am | 12/01/12

      Surely it’s about time that pensioners who work are subject to a different tax regime , and dispensation in the means tests for their pensions ?  Many of us suffer from work induced disabilities, and our further contribution to the economy, is often quite painful and not what you’d want to be doing in retirement. The age discrimination by potential employers and co-workers is bad enough without a penalty when you earn a few miserable bucks !
      It would probably make sense to pay the full age pension to every retiree without a means test, then simply tax their total income.  If you end up in the next tax bracket - STIFF !

    • Tim says:

      06:35am | 12/01/12

      What a surprise that Acotrel thinks that he should get more welfare.

      How about we include the primary place of residence in the means test for the pension? Far too many oldies sitting on million dollar properties whilst taking a pension as well.

    • I hate pies says:

      08:03am | 12/01/12

      So what about those that work hard and retire with a heap of cash in the bank? Do they still get their pension? I’m tipping Acotrel will want a full pension for everyone except those who are “rich”; you know, those who have worked hard and contributed to our country…those who have worked in the public sector are different though, they should get full pensions.

    • Cookie Monster says:

      08:31am | 12/01/12

      Typical - heard it all before from you acotrel. The age-pension is a welfare payment paid for with tax-payers’ money and not earnt income so its not taxable. The tax rates you talk about are for earnt income. It only makes sense in your world acotrel.

    • Colin Lemke says:

      09:33am | 12/01/12

      Cookie Monster:  From the age of 65 onward, the Age Pension is taxable. I speak from personal experience.

    • jf says:

      10:03am | 12/01/12

      Nothing acotrel likes more than the idea of the government taxing someone, putting it through the bureaucracy of the public service and that some person getting a fraction of it back as a social security benefit.

      Not that he sees it this way. In his mind the Gummint has a secret money tree in the gardens of Parliament House.

    • jf says:

      10:20am | 12/01/12

      Colin Lemke says:10:33am | 12/01/12

      “Cookie Monster:  From the age of 65 onward, the Age Pension is taxable.  speak from personal experience.”

      It couldn’t be to low then if it incurs tax once the tax-free thresholds and all the available tax offsets are taken into consideration.

    • Ben C says:

      10:26am | 12/01/12

      @ Cookie Monster and Colin Lemke

      Age Pension is taxable, but recipients are entitled to the Pensioners Tax Offset of Senior Australians Tax Offset in their tax returns that effectively makes the Age Pension tax-free income.

    • Gratuitous Adviser says:

      05:36am | 12/01/12

      At least the Prime Minister, Opposition Leader, the Premier and your well healed local member will turn up at the funeral, if you are killed. That’s something to keep you at the battlefield.

      I’m always amazed that great unwashed in the military would think for one minute that they were not going to be dudded.  Once used up, they have no influence, power or access to the Independent Federal Remuneration Tribunal.

    • TheRealDave says:

      09:57am | 12/01/12

      They’ve stopped going to ‘Farewell Cermonies’ and ‘Family Days’ as evidenced by the paltry turn up of an Opposition State member and local ward councillor to Enoggera to the Farewell Parade of 8/9 RAR befor they recently deployed to Afghanistan. Even the Channel 9 reporter turned up as the troops were marching off the parade ground (after near 2 hours of standing in the sun) to grab 5 minutes of ‘interviews’ before jumping back in his car and taking off.

      But they’ll ALL be quick to make a beeling for the nearest greiving family the parasites…..

    • Lee Enfield says:

      06:11am | 12/01/12

      It goes way beyond this. The process in place by DVa for dealing with incpacity claims is dodgy. Having recently gone through this myself, I walked out of the interview with the DVA apppointed Doctor scratching my head in disbelief at the shoddy system.
      The questions asked are loaded, then questions that should be asked aren’t and when you raise these questions, you are told, sorry can’t talk about that as it isn’t on the list of questions provided by DVA.
      3 months later you receive a determination which is farcical. The determination says you suffer no pain or ill effects, but the doctors report says you do.
      The doctor and DVa say you suffer no social or pyschological effects, despite never asking questions about it, or allowing you to raise it.
      Despite many other doctors saying the opposite and losing your job in the ADF because your long term prognosis for is poor, DVA and their doctor, tell you that your long term prognosis is good. Despite having had all surgeries and treatment and still suffering ongoing problems, and despite DVA’s doctor saying there is no further treatment, the condition is stable and permenant, according to DVA and their doctor it will miraculously get better.
      I suffered permenant nerve damage after one of the major nervs in my lower leg was completed severed. DVA said I have suffered no nerve damage, all because the nerve that was severed isn’t on their list.

      All my injuries have been accepted by DVA as service related, however the process put in place to deal with compensation is a farce. The system in place is set up to reduce the number of claims DVA have to pay out. THe document I received from DVA regarding my claim is borderiing on Fraudulent, with blatant lies, contradictions and shoddy determinations.

    • Retired Soldier says:

      08:31am | 12/01/12

      Lee Enfield says: I suggest you get assistance from a Veterans Advocate in regard to this matter. Did you submit the claim without advice as many do ? If that was the case then you are likely part of the problem. If you used a Pension Officer who is not fully trained then that may be another cause of your determination. See an Advocate who hold currency in all DVA Legislation’s and get the mess fixed by the submission of a new claim, a review of the decision or an appeal to the VRB or AAT. All this is available to you free from most RSLs. If you don’t have one in your area then contact your state HQ, ask to speak to the PAWs Manager and he will advise you where to go and what to do. Don’t just whinge about DVA and doctors as it will get you nowhere. If your claim is genuine and it can be attributed to your service whilst on duty or performing a required duty then it must be accepted. If your injury occurred on War Service then it is much easier as your claim will be assessed on Reasonable Hypothesis providing your contention is reasonable and not fallacious. If the dots connect they have to accept the claim. As for the condition not being on their list (SoPs) that isn’t correct, if medical evidence supports the contention then they must accept the claim even under the Balance of Probability for Peacetime Service. Get an Advocate who knows what he is doing. I would help you but i’m too busy helping soldiers with similar issues. FYI, DVA will do all it can to help you providing you are entitled to the claim and you tell the truth. Believe it or not even soldiers tell lies(fancy that) sometimes and then blame DVA, the doctors and everyone but themselves.

    • Lee Enfield says:

      11:44am | 12/01/12

      I am doing something about it, but the process with DVA is slow and has been a nightmare for the last 12 months since my medical discharge.
      Without reading the determination given to me, it is hard to understand or comprehend, at best the level of incompetence by the doctor and DVA assesor. Suffice to say, they say in one breath I suffer from this, but in the next breath say I don’t. All of my injuries have been accepted as service related, I am applying for compensation.
      I can assure you that the determination received from DVA regarding the compensation claim did in fact state that I am suffering from no nerve damage, despite the fact that DVA have already accepted my nerve damage as a service related injury. The reason for that particular determination, there were 5 nerves listed as being considered on the paperwork I received back, the nerve I had severed was not among them. So when they applied their tables, it was determined I had suffered no sensory loss, because I suffered no damage or sensory loss to the 5 listed nerves.

    • St. Michael says:

      02:49pm | 12/01/12

      The recommendation for a “Veterans Advocte” is interesting given how so many people claim the world would be better off without lawyers, who are, by definition, advocates.

    • Botty says:

      07:52am | 13/01/12

      I answered DVA’s ‘Lifstyle Questionnaire’ which is an instrument used in determining my level of disability.  DVA determined I was still capable of performing all household duties, such as; cooking, washing, cleaning and gardening.  The questionnaire did NOT ask if I live alone and could not afford to pay someone to perform these duties for me!  Consequently; I was considered to be far less disabled then I claimed.

    • AJ says:

      08:51am | 13/01/12

      I know exactly how you feel but i was lucky in that DVA did recognise my worst injury and i did receive compensation for it, or their form of it anyway. It can be a long and frustrating battle and i haven’t even bothered with my other injuries after the first one as i now know how they make their determinations. At the end of the day though their permanent impairment is a joke as there is a lot that they don’t take into account. Definitely look into getting an advocate as a friend of mine had major problems with his claim as well.

    • John K says:

      07:58am | 14/01/12

      This may all be true but what does it have to do with the indexation of DFRB/DFRDB pensions?

    • Static says:

      06:17am | 12/01/12

      In the home of the brave and the land of the free,there are over twohundred thousand homeless veterans,also some of the returning vets that have post traumatic stress are being told by their medical insurers that it was a pre existing condition and therefore not covered.Please God let us not treat our returned soldiers so shabbily. I believe that if a soldier is willing to put his/her life on the line for his country,that country should ensure that on return that soldier should never be homeless and should not have to put his/her hand in their pocket for medical expenses and yes I dont care if my taxes have to be raised to ensure that this happens. That is the least we can do.

    • Brett says:

      08:05am | 12/01/12

      I spent some time in Kuwait during my last operational deployment and had the opportunity to talk to a bunch of US Soldiers. They were doing thier R&R in kuwait. A 15 month deployment with a couple of 2 week breaks in a military base in Kuwait. I was also told that in thier post Op psych screening if they indicated that they were suffering from PTSD, that the initial councelling and rehabilitation would be another 3 months in country, not in the US. Given the already long deployments the US was doing, most soldiers indicated they were suffering from PTSD just so they could get home to thier families. This of course meant they were not eligible for treatment at any later stage. Sickening really.
      But to clarify, this is not what happens with Australian soldiers, these were US speicifc cases.

    • St. Michael says:

      11:27am | 12/01/12

      Course, what the US soldiers don’t tell you is the reason many of them stay for 15, 16 years or more.  In short, it’s the benefits the US government pays for retired careerist soldiers.

      If you get over 20 years’ service—which most frontline types don’t do seeing as they’re statistically either dead or RIFed due to having a leg blown off—then you retire from the US Army with a pension equal to half your highest grade of pay for life.  You can go and find other work, and you still get retirement-benefit pharmaceutical concessions as well.

      The US’s 2012 defense-related expenditures include $70 billion for “veterans affairs” and $54.6 billion for veterans pensions. That’s $124.6 billion for people who used to be on active duty.

      The actual expenditure on active duty personell is about $125 billion.

      You can therefore quite literally say based on the expenditures that the US is running two armed forces—one retired, one active.  This seems kinda ludicrous.  More details about it here: http://www.johntreed.com/militarybudgetcuts.html

    • SimonFromLakemba says:

      12:03pm | 12/01/12

      @St Michael

      I think USA military budget is near $760 billion, more then Europe’s combined.

      You can see why Ron Paul appeals to a lot of people.

    • St. Michael says:

      12:21pm | 12/01/12

      @ SimonFromLakemba:

      The article I’ve linked mentions that.  In 2010, US military defence budget was $698 billion.  The other 15 top spenders put together was about $932 billion.  As the article says: the US doesn’t spend more than the whole world put together, but it’s probably a lot more than it really should and NATO in particular benefits from it as a result.

      Ron Paul does appeal to a lot of people—but he doesn’t appeal to anyone who gets a Federal pension or benefit, mostly because he’d cut them by a good 45% or so if he was in (you’d hope).  That more or less guarantees he won’t be elected even though it’s the only thing that can save the US economy at this point.

    • SimonFromLakemba says:

      01:43pm | 12/01/12

      @St Michael

      Thanks for that, was just going off the top of my head on what I read in the paper start of the week.

    • Retired Soldier says:

      02:52pm | 12/01/12

      Lee Enfield: if you are prepared to leave an email or phone contact I will try and assist you. I am a level 4 advocate and I specialize in MRCA claims and assisting medically discharged soldiers. No cost involved and no promises made.

    • marley says:

      06:28am | 12/01/12

      As I understand it (and I admit to being a bit fuzzy on the issue), Military (and Commonwealth Civil Service) pensions are indexed according to the CPI alone, whereas Aged and similar pensions are adjusted according to a more generous purchasing power index.  The former keep with inflation, but the latter keep up with the real cost of living. 

      I don’t particularly see why there should be a difference - and I certainly don’t see why MPs should be indexed any differently from their employees, the military and the civil servants.

    • BJ says:

      07:50am | 12/01/12

      Why should MPs be treated differently to a range of other people? It isn’t just the military who don’t get as much as politicians.

    • Lee Enfield says:

      08:19am | 12/01/12

      In theory you are correct, however the reality is, that the military pensions don’t even keep up with inflation, and likewise, the payrises the ADF have received have been below inflation.

    • Retired Soldier says:

      08:43am | 12/01/12

      Marley:  The issue of military pensions is shrouded in smoke and mirrors and is complicated. It has been made even more complicated by successive governments who ignore the welfare of our fighting forces but never miss an opportunity to be seen with them when the media are about. There have been many letters written about the subject of retired soldiers and their pensions and many promises have been made and broken by each side. The most recent one was when Gillard offered to look after the discrepancy and the mighty little do good independent Senator from SA refused to vote for the change. Suffice to say, those of us who have spend half a life fighting wars and doing extremely dangerous jobs for our country are far worse off than the Welfare and Dole recipients who have never worked in their life and would never consider fighting for the hand that feeds them, pays for their grog and smokes and allows them to sit around all day whinging about how hard done by they are.

    • marley says:

      09:17am | 12/01/12

      @Lee Enfield - I’ve spoken to a friend who’s a retired civil servant, and he tells me that military and Commonwealth civil service pensions are based on the CPI, while MP and aged pensions are based on the Average Weekly Earnings.  The latter is more realistic than the former.  So I agree entirely.  Frankly, I think it’s disgraceful that people who’ve actually earned a pension get less than those who haven’t..

    • Colonel of Truth says:

      09:28am | 12/01/12

      Spot on, marley. Military super pensions, to which servicemen and women compulsorily contributed from their after-tax pay, are indexed to CPI alone. Age and other welfare pensions are indexed to the better of CPI and the new (2009) Pensioner and Beneficiary Living Cost Index (PBLCI), with reference to Male Total Average weekly Earnings (MTAWE).

      It’s an alphabet soup but the bottom line is as you say - age pensions keep up with the real cost of living but military super pensions do not.

      Meanwhile, pre-2004 MP pensions are indexed to today’s MP salaries, which rose dramatically recently. As I understand matters, this huge salary increase will automatically flow on to long-retired MPs unless the parliament legislates otherwise. Go figure.

    • WayneT says:

      02:53pm | 12/01/12

      Disgusting isn’t it that politicians loath paying people who no longer contribute to the bottom line, but are happy to collect generous pensions and benefits when they leave public life and service?

    • RobS says:

      03:51pm | 12/01/12

      Marley.  you have it in a nutshell.  Indexation was meant to maintain the buying power of the military superannuation pension but with changes to how the CPI was calculated the government decided to add additional indexation mechanisms to the age pension to ensure that pension maintained its buying power but ignored military and commonwealth superannuation pensioners.

    • Brett says:

      07:39am | 12/01/12

      The “new” military superannuation benefits scheme, MSBS, isnt much better. While the employer contribution is notionally 27% it isnt acutally paid until you are eligible, ie 65. If you leave defence, you cant roll it over into another scheme either. So your contirubtions will sit there earning CPI until 65, when the employer contirubtion is added, which means you lose out big time. MSBS was also making a loss for a large portion of my career, ie my super was going backwards. Unlike the rest of the workforce, you also have no choice of your superannuation scheme. So you are stuck with a lemon. Additionally, our latest payrise actually puts us behind CPI over the next 3 years, so we are actually losing money. Good thing the senior public servants and pollies got a big fat payrise tho…

    • Geoff says:

      12:32pm | 12/01/12

      Wrong, Colonel of Truth, we contributed 5.5% of our pre tax pay which equates to approx 8% of pay, after tax.

    • Rob S says:

      05:13pm | 12/01/12

      Not quite true Brett.  You can take your employee benefit and roll it over into a normal super fund (or leave it with MSBS, your choice) and you will get access to those funds when you are eligible.  The problem is the employer benefit and that is the major portion of the super payout.  Unless you are over 55 you can’t get access to it to roll over to a normal fund.  A person who only serves 10 or so years could be disadvantaged to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars. That is not right!!

    • Colonel of Truth says:

      08:16am | 13/01/12

      Quite correct, Geoff. Senior’s moment. The old scheme (DFRDB) compulsorily takes 5.5% of pre-tax pay, which can be circa 7 to 8% of after-tax pay depending on the individual’s salary. The ‘new’ scheme (MSBS) compulsorily takes 5.0% of pre-tax pay. Thanks for picking up my error.

    • Bill says:

      10:35am | 14/01/12

      This quite true and disadvantaging individuals by hundreds of thousands of dollars. For example an individual who retires after 12 year service at age 30 might have $100 000 in MSBS. If they were able to roll that into another fund and earn 7% for the next 35 years they would have over $1mil in super to retire on at age 65. Instead the majority of their MSBS is at CPI only meaning that come retirement their MSBS value is only in the order of $350 000.

      I am fairly certain that MSBS is the only super fund which doesn’t allow you to roll out your money and manage it personally.

    • MarkS says:

      08:09am | 12/01/12

      While we are quite rightly putting the boot into the appalling way our veterans are being treated. What about the serving troops as well? Substandard equipment, such as camo that does not work in the area’s they are deployed.

      But what really gets my goat is the disgusting way that our troops who were fired upon & returned fire where then charged with manslaughter because unknown to them the person who fired on them had non-combatants in the room with him.

      Now I have no problem with troops who say murder prisoners being charged with murder. But manslaughter, suggesting our troops used excess violence for the circumstances on a battlefield! When the entire essence of war is to kill the foe with as much violence as you can bring to bear.

      Police have not charged in worse situations and they operate in civil circumstances, not war. Police where not charged when they killed the unarmed Mr Gundy in his bed while breaking into his house at night to arrest somebody who was not there.

      So those put their lives on the line for us now know that creatures who have never heard a shot fired in anger are waiting back in Canberra to make unfair & biased judgements on them as to what they did under fire. What need for a foe when our troops are betrayed & stabbed in the back by lawyers? It is like something out of a Kafta novel.

      Nothing could have damaged the morale and efficiency of the defence force more than this event. Did the heads of the defence force whose job it is to promote the morale and efficiency of the defence force act? No, they had the power to act & did nothing. Left it to the lawyers, dodged the issue & in my opinion failed in their duty.

      The lawyers who are our politicians want a military justice system that is the same as the civil justice system. Not caring that what is suitable for civil life is totally unsuitable for military life. Troops are trained & ordered to KILL people; civilians are expected not to kill anybody.

      What did the Australian public do? Nothing! We do not deserve them. We sit on our large backsides enjoying the fruits of their sacrifices & allow them to be betrayed by the politicians we have the power to control. Why have we abandoned our troops? Because we are scum! In the end we will pay the price, a self serving cowardly people will end up with a self serving cowardly defence force.

    • AdamC says:

      09:44am | 12/01/12

      MarkS, I was also utterly mystified by the charges brought against those soldiers, which were mercifully dropped. I fear that, even in wartime, organisations like the ADF become political punching bags. I note today in Melbourne’s favourite journal of left-wing activism (the Age) there is another pious moralising exercise about Defence personnel apparently behaving ‘inappropriately’.

      I am strongly of the view that the military must be subject to strict civilian control, and that excesses and atrocities should be punished. However, it is something of a truism that you cannot win wars without killing people. It is also an unfortunate reality that there will be civilian casualties. Persecuting individual soldiers is not an appropriate response to this.

      It seems all part of a generalised attack on what one might term traditional, and especially traditionally male, institutions in society. For example, in Victoria, our police force (another perceived bastion of old-fashioned white maleness) was subject to the - apparently horribly demoralising - ‘leadership’ of a very political, very left and very feminist Chief Commissioner in the form of Christine Nixon. Someone whose management style, I am told, could best be described as a combination of Chairman Mao and Marie Antoinette.

      Clearly, the priority of the Victoran government at that time was not effective policing, but cultural reform of the institution, even at the cost of the institution’s effectiveness. The ADF is in an even worse position. It wouldn’t surprise me if half the Labor MPs in the current parliament believe your average soldier is little better than a trained idiot with a gun and a unifiorm. Nonetheless, people like me would hope that, in the context of a war causing reasonably regular casualties, the ADF is a little bit too important to be subject to re-education by the PC gestapo.

      People like me would be disappointed, of course. As usual.

    • stephen says:

      08:11am | 12/01/12

      How many people go into the Military for just this junket ?
      That they will not be sent somewhere to fight, but stay on base and cook, or delegate stores, or drive around dignitaries ?
      And get free medical, free clothes, and even the girls like them because their income is assured.
      They are not all on the wall you know looking after the common man. The military nowadays is a career, and wars soon will be pushbutton ones, which means that our lives will be subject to the same forces of dynamite as those in the thick of it.
      I’d suggest that the harping about money and what the govenrnment is being pressured to do about it is encouraging the wrong sort of applicants for the ADF.
      Soldiering is not easy, I suppose, but neither is digging holes in the ground for a living, either.

    • marley says:

      09:20am | 12/01/12

      I doubt that anyone goes into the military for the money.  And frankly, I’d rather be digging holes in the ground looking for gold, than holes in the ground to take shelter from artillery blasts.

    • TheRealDave says:

      10:05am | 12/01/12

      Stephen, when someone is shooting at you while ‘digging holes’ in a civvy job come back to me. Plenty of people in non-combat jobs are also deployed in combat zones and get killed or injured. Plenty also get injured back here in Oz training, some do tragically get killed as well. All the men and women who elect to serve rtheir country deserve any extra benefit they are entitled to over and above civilian entitlements.

    • Jane2 says:

      10:53am | 12/01/12

      Stephen, if someone joined the ADF in the 21st century thinking it was a junket they must have got one very big surprise. Everyone I know has done multiple deployments, even the caterring and logistics guys.

      War is also far from this “push button” idea you seem to have. It is still very much guns, explosions, blood and death, not people sitting at desks using what looks like a computer game.

      War in Afghanistan is not like Mash re-runs or even vietnam movies.
      If you are deployed to Afghanistan you stay on base as leaving base without a full armoured escort is certain death. You wear armour every time you are outside of a building, even on base.

      If its so desirable why dont you join up…after all you get free medical, free clothes etc.

    • Felix says:

      11:25am | 12/01/12

      @Stephen - clearly you’ve either never been in the military since 1989, or you’re a troll.

      A large proportion of serving members have or will serve in operational theatres. If you go to Afghanistan, even those members who are ‘inside the wire’ routinely have rockets fired at them - guaranteed to make you spill your coffee. Non-deployable cooks, drivers and storemen were civilianised years ago.

      Not being on the wall? I doubt you’d have the temerity say that to the lads who were recently shot by their Afghan colleagues? They were quite literally standing on the wall.

      Not too many hole-diggers have to do so in body armour & helmet whilst keeping an eye out for the next threat do they?

      As for the ADF being a career, you’re quite right. The days of being forced over a trench wall to act as a walking revetment went out several decades ago so strangely enough, today’s servicemen are specialised and highly trained.

      I don’t follow your argument about you being subject to the same forces as soldiers experience. I think you might be in the thick of something else.

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      12:54pm | 12/01/12

      I served, my father served with two of his brothers, all officers. Hell, even my mother and sister were in the Army. 
      I told my son not to be stupid and find something else as a career when he said he wanted to enlist. Not because it isn’t a great life - it is. Not because you don’t learn great skills - you do.

      Mostly because of our current asinine rules of engagement, agreed to by some idiot politician sititng on his or her arse in Canberra. If you get shot at, you shoot back, FFS. And you don’t go to war to make friends with people, you go to war to kill them.

    • Naomi says:

      08:53am | 16/01/12

      Actually, the military has always been a good career option, if you are made of the right stuff. My father joined the Navy in 1936 and medically retired in 1967. Saw a hell of a lot of service of which the side effects cost him two families, his health and his mind. i still joined up for ten years and it has cost me my health, yet gave me some great mental illnesses too. However, the career opportunities from serving your nation are wide and varied. I didn’t join up for the money, I joined up because I wanted to serve my country whilst having some adventure and great challenges.
      The clothes aren’t free, the medical isn’t always the best but you are always working either at the pointy end as you armchair generals keep calling it, or in full support of those in the frontline. It isn’t all about digging holes either. How about getting supplies to those so they can eat, getting people medivac’d because they are injured or ill? How about being forced to sail a ship that isn’t exactly seaworthy and is taking in water almost as fast as the pumps can get it out again?
      The money you get paid, even with all the “alleged benefits”, doesn’t come close to what you actually put in. And, from experience, how a veteran is treated afterwards, is a national embarrassment. We pay tax, we put a lot into this country in times of peace and in times of war yet many think we should just get on with it. Well, if we could afford to we would and some of us are only in our 20s to 40s, not on walking frames reminiscing about Hitler and Japan.

    • concerned Parent of ADF person says:

      08:27am | 12/01/12

      Thank you Mr Criss for this piece you have written.  While many of us are proud that our children serve this country we worry endlessly about the lack of support that they recieve for doing so. 

      While our politicians get ready for another full day of self promotion this Anzac day I would like to ask them; if there son’s were in uniform, ready to make the ultimate sacrifice, would they want them to be paid as well as somone working in an office in Canberra?

    • Afghan Vet says:

      08:45am | 12/01/12

      This article is a cheap shot.  You can run the argument without playing the politics of envy.  Compared to other countries our politicians are not paid that much.  Compared to other countries our military is one of the best remunerated in the world.  On operations the total benefit approaches that of a Cabinet members’ salary: and that is just for a relatively junior NCO or Officer.  Take into account study assistance, free medical, dental, clothing allowance, removal allowance, service allowance etc, things are pretty good.  Further, the old pension scheme is not too bad.  It is designed to assume you have another job.  An 18 year old who served 20 years is on pension at 38.  Plenty of time for another career - let alone another job.  I am not saying things are perfect, but let’s not pretend we don’t look after our soldiers alright.  Finally, you always hear the full time welfare lobby cry poor, but never hear anything for Reservists who get no superannuation for their service - which is often up to 100 days per year.  When many of these reservists are self employed, there is no equivalent super being accumulated.  But you don’t hear them complain.

    • colroe says:

      09:49am | 12/01/12

      No, Afghan Vet, the DFRDB scheme was not designed to assume you have another job.  The DFRDB scheme was contributed to by servicemen and women, on the basis that it would be fairly indexed for life.  The ex servicemen are not asking for more, they are asking for equal and fair treatment.  I retired at 65, yes, had another job, raised a family, now living on the grand sum of $23500 p.a.  We do not look after our soldiers alright, sure, they get well recompensed for serving in War zones these days, but not in my time.  Have a look at this when you can.

      http://standto.org/

    • The righteous one says:

      09:50am | 12/01/12

      How can you say that when after the payrise the office of PM is paid more that POTUS or the British PM, both are leaders of countries significantly larger in political stature, population and GDP then Australia. 
      If you truly are a vet then you will know how crap service pensions are, I certainly do, I was better off taking the lump and continue working.  Even public servants have a better deal in comparison to service members.

    • Afghan Vet says:

      11:02am | 12/01/12

      I am an Afghan vet: three times.  But my last two were as a reservist.  It hit home the disparity in the two armies.  Soldiers seriously wounded were not given anywhere near the same level of support on account of being reservists.  Zero super.  And many lost their jobs or were shifted to poorer conditions.  The legislation is not that well enforced.  My point is that the system is not perfect, but we shouldn’t pretend it is bad.  Most regular army soldiers I know who leave for civvie street go running back to the comfort of the ADF when they realise how hard it is in the real world.  And we shouldn’t also pretend every ADF person is putting their life on the line.  We know that most have very comfortable desk jobs - some providing next to zero capability.  There are parts of the ADF that are no better than glorified welfare.

    • Tropical says:

      11:45am | 12/01/12

      Zero super more than compensated by generous tax free allowances etc etc. Spare me your sel rightous indignation.
      Three tour = about $240,000 just in allowances not including CFTS tax free pay on deployment.

    • Afghan Vet says:

      04:18pm | 12/01/12

      Operations aside (as most Reservists are not as fortunate to get to deploy), you are wrong - tax free pay does not count for lack of super.  The rate is adjusted and allows for income tax only - ie, if you get $100 per day taxed, all other things being equal, a reservist will get about 70% of that (or thereabouts).  The allwoances are generally equal.  But there is zero compensation for super.  And I am not complaining about me.  My point is specific to super.  Reservists completely miss out.  An easy fix would be to do what you allege - allow for the lack of super in a slightly increased rate.  This doesn’t occur at present.  It is a loophole that should be closed on equity grounds.  No hating.  I’ve been on both sides.

    • ConcernedCitizen says:

      03:00am | 15/01/12

      The actual easy fix “Afghan Vet” is to disband the Reserves, re-allocate the equipment and funding to enable a larger Permanent Force that is better equiped and remunerated. Both of which will increase the retention and effectiveness of the Military. And please don’t tell me how without the Reserves the Full-time ADF wouldn’t be able to do the Ghan, Timor and the Solomons cause the simple fact is, we shouldn’t still be in Timor and the Solomons. Our focus should be in Australia and in Afghanistan and if something else pops up then that larger permanent force of better paid and retained soldiers could easily handle it.

    • Derek Wilkinson ex WOFFCOMMS RAAF says:

      05:17pm | 05/04/12

      “Afghan Vet” 
      My understanding is that “An 18 year old who served 20 years is on pension at 38” is no longer an option.  I think you will find that this member would have to mark time until age 60 before his/her retirement pay commences. And while waiting, only about 4/tths of his/her money will be indexed (to the CPI), unless (as if) the indexation formula miraculously improves.
      As the saying goes “They sure as hell have us by the short and curlies”.

    • subotic says:

      08:56am | 12/01/12

      Wasn’t the author the original drummer for KISS?

    • Tropical says:

      09:59am | 12/01/12

      Never seen KISS in a RAAF uniform!!

    • Tropical says:

      09:59am | 12/01/12

      Never seen KISS in a RAAF uniform!!

    • subotic says:

      11:03am | 12/01/12

      @Tropical, obviously never heard of the KISS Army.

    • dancan says:

      09:13am | 12/01/12

      Unfortunately Australian troops are seen as nothing more than meat shields and political leverage.  Much like the Iraq and Afghan “wars” I honestly believe our troops have been sent there for nothing more than some political point scoring, our politicians don’t care who goes, who dies, who get wounded or who is lucky enough to make it back unscathed and qualify for the pension. Our troops are under paid, under geared with very limited support while in service and once they retire.

      The whole subject just angers me.

    • SimonFromLakemba says:

      12:15pm | 12/01/12

      With you on that one bud.

    • peter bent says:

      09:15am | 12/01/12

      Good article.  I dig it , glad I stumbled on it, reddit and kwoffed it. I do’nt twitter or face books so How do I share it?Do I really have to copy it then forward it?

    • Shane says:

      09:26am | 12/01/12

      Absolutely disgusting. Absolutely frigging disgusting. Everyone from Gillard and the Minster for Defence, all the way down to the local do-nothing-member-for-whatever-town should hang their heads in shame at this.

      What will it take for Australians to force change in this country and balance the public purse for the good of the people?

    • TheRealDave says:

      10:14am | 12/01/12

      Shane, far be it from me to point out that both Labor and Liberal are EQUALLY as guilty as each other in abandoning our veterans.  This has been going on since the first injured Diggers started returning home from Gallipoli in 1915. This particular issue was also woefully ignored during ‘Honest’ Johns reign as well.

      They ALL deserve to han their heads in shame - but they never will.

    • Botty says:

      08:07am | 13/01/12

      How much more hyporcitical can our politicians become?  They turn up as our Defence members deploy and return, they turn up at the funeral of Defence members, they have a minutes silence in Parliament upon the death of a Defence member.  Then when they had the opportunity on 16 June 2011 to support our troops by fair indexation of their pension entitlements; they; the politiians; rejected the bill in the Senate.

      All we are asking is ‘Fair Indexation’ of our pension.  All we are asking is to apply the same criteria for indexation as that received by old age pensioners and POLITICIANS.

    • The Buzz says:

      09:28am | 12/01/12

      From the moment I joined in 1990, my ‘employment contract’ was shat upon relentlessly by both sides of government. Eroded, scorned, laughed at and punished, the commitment of predominately selfless, community-minded service people was thrown back into their faces by a useless new super scheme, increasing housing and living costs, reducing entitlements to recompense for moving every three years and putting your life on the line ‘for the greater cause’ and wages that were stuck in neutral whilst the culture we protected rode the economic boom times. The boot is stuck into the guts of service people further by being shackled by austere confidentiality policy and enforced political sterility that ensures they can’t complain now weigh into political debates. We have lost our moral compass. And forget about hoping that the politician gives it’s service people parity or what is fair and due. It’s up to the Australian population to force them to show leadership and a little humanity.

      Compare and contrast the US service culture.

      Vets are given consumer concessions, respected in their communiities and lauded by their politicians and media. It isn’t perfect, but it is telling that US politicians hold it in the highest honour of service to their country to proudly proclaim that their sons and daughters serve in the military. This can’t be said for our polly’s. In my 20 year career, I had the pleasure of being told that the military is no place for an important person’s child. They are better than that. I pushed that to the back of my mind when I went overseas on ops, as we all do. We’d rather think about the countless thousands of people who appreciate what the service person does. But it galls us to know that their representatives aren’t being pushed hard enough to show due respect when we get home. We’ve done our fighting for a free and fair world. We’ll fall in behind you if you were to do the same thing for us.

    • amy says:

      10:06am | 12/01/12

      the marines? ....some of them also have a serious god complex

    • TheRealDave says:

      10:50am | 12/01/12

      Maybe you should just tell yoru girlfriends to stop jumping on them when their wallets come out in bars when they are on shore leave then?

      wink

    • Nathan Explosion says:

      01:58pm | 12/01/12

      US Vets also rarely get health care covered and their compensation is woeful.

    • David says:

      09:31am | 12/01/12

      MarkS, exactly what camouflage uniform doesn’t work? The infantry and those patrolling ‘outside the wire’ now wear the Multicam uniform that is widely accepted as being the best uniform available for the area.

      As for the pension, I was told at my last pension interview that after 25 years in the Army I will receive thirty three thousand dollars a year pension (before tax) when I get to 65 years old. I will only receive this amount due to the extra amount of money I put into the scheme when I could afford it (10% rather than the standard 5%).

      I changed from DFRDB to MSBS because the scheme actualy sounded good when it came out in the late 80’s/early 90’s. Unfortunately since then it has changed dramatically for the worse and the reasons I chose to accpet it rather than stay in DFRDB have now been removed from the scheme and I have no option or ability to do anything about it as a Defence member.

      Polititions will do nothing about it as it will cost alot of money to do the change, this has been shown in a number of interviews and comments by the relevant Minister. Basically members of the ADF only have the option of staying in and being shafted by the pension or get out and get a real Superannuation plan.

    • MarkS says:

      10:44am | 12/01/12

      @David
      As you say “now wear the Multicam uniform”. The present uniform is ok.

      But the camouflage first issued to Aussie troops in Afghanistan was a problem. The issue was the change from the camouflage required in the greenish valleys to the brownish hills. It took far too long to fix it.

    • Shooter says:

      09:35am | 12/01/12

      That a bit rich when you and the other brass get better perks than the man on the ground. I have seen this not first hand regarding other brass.

    • L. Mountbatten says:

      11:02am | 13/01/12

      You have seen this “not first hand” er ok…...not sure what these “perks” are that “the brass” are getting, but as you haven’t seen them either, you are probably the wrong person to ask….

    • Robert S McCormick says:

      09:54am | 12/01/12

      It boils down to one or two Facts:
      Our politicians, Federal, State & Territory are all & without exception Parasites of the worst sort. Their spouses are no different for, having contributed absolutely nothing, they still get that Tax-payer Funded Super after an MP has died. Never mind that we sacked their parasitic MP spouses.
      Unlike most parasites, which can be eliminated with prescribed medication, medicated hair & scalp washes, skin treatments etc,. Australia’s politicians are with us for Life.
      They, particularly Prime Ministers, tell us we should support our troops. We should, they say, Honour them & thank them for their service to Australia.
      We may not approve of our troops being sent to fight wars created by our politicians but that does not mean we don’t support & respect them. They are simply doing whatever our war-monger Prime Ministers tell them to do
      The people who show no respect for , nor honour our troops are our Prime Ministers & every single one of our MPs.
      They promised our troops on enlistment that their Superannuation would be indexed & then failed to deliver.
      At the same time the Politician-Appointed Remuneration Tribunal hands out totally undeserved 32% Pay Rises to those self-same politicians. There is, of course, as there always is, a massive Conflict of Interests involving our politicians & those appointed to review their salaries for every time the politicians grant themselves, via the Remuneration Tribunal, a Pay’n'Perks improvement those improvements in Pay’n'Perks flows through to the Judiciary, Senior Federal, State & Territory Public Servants. If those on the Remuneration Tribunal are not Public Servants I would like to know what they are.
      They are appointed by the Politicians. They are Paid by the Government-of-the-Day, their offices are provided & paid for by the same Government. Where does the massive amount of money required to pay & support the Tribunal comes from? The Tax-payers of Australia. Therefore they are Public Servants looking after their own interests & those of their employers.

    • The Buzz says:

      12:30pm | 12/01/12

      I liked that post. Well done.

    • Debbie says:

      04:52pm | 12/01/12

      whoa there ... this resembles the truth a little too much ... and just to add my two bobs worth ... it doesn’t matter which party is in power

    • Ex Serviceman says:

      08:37am | 13/01/12

      Great post.    I hope I do not have to witness Gillard mouthing more of her platitudes when a soldier is killed in action.  Yes, both major parties have failed in their response to this.  It is a sad indictment on their capacity to function as responsible government.    June 16th, in the Senate, when Senator Kate Lundy, who had previously supported the bill to fix this issue, then did an about face and cast the deciding vote against it.

    • John Face says:

      09:57am | 12/01/12

      Former servicemen in Australia have cetainly been abandoned by politicians at all levels of government, federal state and local, as former benefits are eroded or removed and new benefits are not introduced. The so called free press wants nothing to do with it. Perhaps it is a can of worms they are reluctant to open.
      I often wonder if public disdain of the military goes back to the time of the NSW Corps and the rum rebellion. Thank God that Australia had been spared any land warfare. Also many have come here with bad experiences they attribute to the military.
      i recently noted Minister Snowdon was at it again, unnecessary expenditure on the dead in the form of paying for a motif for the Anzac centerary. The greatest publicity veterans could produce woud be to ignore this activity.

      I am working up a proposal to put to the ESOs I belong to and put this up for general consideration and comment.

      Proposal to oppose public money expenditure on centenary of Anzac

      ‘Ex-service organisations oppose any expenditure of public monies on commemorating the Centenary of Anzac.’

      Argument
      Remembrance is the prerogative of veterans not politicians.
      Public monies should be spent on the living and not on the dead.
      Much improvement is necessary in the financial support for widows and children of personnel killed in action in Afghanistan.
      Those wounded in action there and those suffering trauma in consequence of their service and their families need far better support than that provided for personnel of earlier conflicts particularly Vietnam and World War 2.
      Contrary to Minister Snowdon’s assertion that :
      The sanctity of Anzac Day will always be protected.
      there is nothing sacred or inviolable about war. It is a nasty unpleasant business which politicians increasingly hold at arms length. Fewer and fewer of them choose to serve the nation in any capacity in its defence particularly when it comes to the discipline required in membership of the Australian Defence Force.
      All who were Anzacs in 1915 are dead. Provision has been made for the support of their immediate dependents.
      Anzac Day marches are degenerating into an assembly of undisciplined bemedaled distant relatives of those who served.
      The Anzac Day dawn service at Gallipoli has transformed into pre-event entertainment for camping backpackers, a platform for grandstanding politicians, and a paid holiday for their sycophantic supporters from those ex-service organisations that have abandoned their duty towards those suffering as a result of their war service.
      How many ex-servicemen are there whose sole benefit of the ‘highly acclaimed Australia Remembers’  program was a hastily scribbled local members signature on another useless certificate sent to them in the mail?
      (That was my experience.)
      Australia’s living veterans need more than another motif and a lot of pious political platitudes.
      A few suggestions:
      Extreme disability pension rate to be 50% of MTAWE.
      Service pensions without means testing for all veterans and their spouses.
      Gold cards and state travel concession cards for all spouses of veterans.
      Defence superannuation be the same percentage of the current pay rate as the percentage received at separation and be tax free especially for those on invalidity pensions.

      Stop spending public money on the dead. Instead help the living.
      Trafalgar was a great victory in Australia’s history which ensured sea lanes to Australia were unimpeded for well over a century yet it has largely been forgotten. It is time to move on and let the Gallipoli campaign go the same way.

    • Son of Vietnam Vet says:

      02:43pm | 12/01/12

      I agree with upping the EDA, but I think making the SP non means tested is not right.

    • Kate says:

      10:00am | 12/01/12

      What many civilians may not realise is that serving military members are legally prohibited from forming a Union; it’s considered a form of “mutiny”. Therefore those who protect civilians, aren’t allowed to publicly present their position - denied the same freedom given to every other person in the nation. Ex-service organisations are allowed to lobby on defence issues, but they are - understandably - more concerned with issues relating to aged veterans of conflict, and don’t have the resources or insights to lobby on matters relating to modern day Defence issues. The military thus have to accept whatever shabby treatment the Government decides to give them, and aren’t allowed to speak out about it. They’re even prohibited from writing “letters to the editor” without permission. It’s outrageous.

    • Ted Chitham says:

      12:25am | 17/01/12

      Spartan Warrior says:

      Kate, you are partly right. The Government can under the Defence Act “dumb down” the current military serving persons freedom of speech but they can’t do it to past service organisations, many of whom represent current servicemen and women.

      An alliance of defence service organisation (ADSO) comprising the Defence Welfare Association (DFWA), the Naval Association of Australia (NAA), the Royal Australian Regiment Corporation (RARC), the Australian Special Air Service Association (ASASA)  and the Royal Australian Air Force Association (RAAFA) has been formed to conduct the “FAIR GO!” Campaign in support of the Australian Defence Family. It aims to protect the conditions and wellbeing of the Defence Family by direct engagement with the Government, Parliament and all political parties and alerting the Australian public to the situation.

      The Campaign’s objectives and progress can be seen at http://www.standto.org

      Peter Criss is one of a number of distinguished past servive men and women who represent the public face and voice of the Campaign.

    • richards says:

      10:03am | 12/01/12

      Unbalanced tripe. You want a fair go? How about representing the issue fairly for a start?

      Irrelevancies about the easy target of politicians pay aside, let’s look at the issue and Major McGuinnes. All money earned by the armed forces is tax free, so the equivalent salaries would be much higher. $38,584 tax free in 1987 was a fair whack of money, the average PRE TAX salary in 1987 was a touch over $20,000. It’s now about three times higher, so in that respect in todays dollars Major McGuinnes was earning over $120,000 a year TAX FREE. If we peg the salary of Major McGuinnes to housing inflation, his relative salary in todays terms would be around $250,000 TAX FREE. Major McGuinnes is not poor and was never paid poorly, if he is crying poor now then it can only be due to his own financial incompetence.

      Now, to his pension. A pension of $14,000 in 1987 was more than many full time taxpayers earned. A pension of $27,000 today is twice what other pensioners can expect and still higher than what many full time working taxpayers earn. A pension exists to provide living expenses in retirement. What exactly is the problem with taxing him, in the same way everyone else is taxed, for income in excess of his pension?

    • EC says:

      10:25am | 12/01/12

      Richard,

      Actually, that is not technically correct. The only salaries that are tax free are those earnt on deployment overseas whilst on active service (i.e. a war-zone) and those earnt by Reserve personnel.

      All full-time personnel in the ADF pay tax like everyone else.

    • Jamin says:

      10:35am | 12/01/12

      You idiot.  All money earned by the Defence Forces is not tax free.  If you are a reservist or on an overseas deployment than it is tax free, but in Australia full time ADF members pay tax just like everyone else.

      Research helps fool.

    • John Face says:

      10:55am | 12/01/12

      Lets get a few facts correct.
      All money earned by the armed forces is NOT tax free.
      Tax was/is not payable for personnel on ‘prescribed service’. For those serving in Vietnam, the Government Insurance Office in New South Wales increased its premiums for term insurance for a benefit of around 5 times salary by about the same amount so those of us there effectively received no benefit.
      A pension of $27,000 today is NOT twice what other pensioners can expect . A single person receives $17914 while a couple receive $27008.80 or $13504.40 each.

    • TheRealDave says:

      11:01am | 12/01/12

      Dick, you’re a complete idiot. Every member of the ADF pays tax just like every person who earns a wage in Australia. ALways have, always will.

      Its only been ‘of late’ that certain ADF members get operational bonuses ontop of their salary. For that they get to be shot at, rocketed, mortared, go for day trips through minefields, be surrounded by allies they are not sure will shoot them inteh back etc - easy money!

    • Richard says:

      11:03am | 12/01/12

      “All money earned by the armed forces is tax free” - sorry to burst your overinflated vacuous bubble but defence personnel pay tax like every other person. IDIOT!

    • Mahhrat says:

      11:27am | 12/01/12

      All money earned by the armed forces is tax free.

      Incorrect.  RESERVE pay is considered tax free, while you are a reservist and only when not working more than a week straight.  If you go onto full time service for any reason, you pay tax.

    • St. Michael says:

      11:31am | 12/01/12

      I like how everyone jumped on richard because he erred on defence service pay being tax free, but all missed the part when he compared the average pre-tax salary in 1987—$20,000—with the major’s post-tax salary of $38,584.

      To me that’s the most telling statistic.

    • Felix says:

      11:43am | 12/01/12

      You’d better sit down Dickie. Your slip is showing.

      For the record, ADF salary is not tax free. Different operational theatres are subject to different allowances and tax zones depending on location, threat, and deployed living conditions. These are determined by the Minister.

      Some uniforms are free (protective & field uniforms), some are purchased. There is a Uniform Maintenance Allowance paid to maintain and buy new uniforms; it is taxed.

      Subsidised study is very strictly regulated and is not fully funded. Most people recover less than half of costs. The subsidy amount depends on how many people are trying to access the scheme.

      The days of 100% free medical are long gone. It is free medical to the point where you can maintain your medical category, nothing more.

      Whilst the ADF salaries are relatively high in compared to some other countries, the complementary conditions of service and benefits which used to make the ADF an attractive long term career are continually bring eroded, particularly under the Strategic Reform Program.

    • Murray says:

      04:12pm | 12/01/12

      Unbalanced tripe? Your lack of knowledge on the subject could be categorized that way Dickie boy. The only time ADF personnell are not taxed is when they are in a categorized war zone putting their necks on the line to protect the freedoms of all of us and at the behest of a government who they are bound to obey. Whether serving in Australia or deployed overseas, they pay taxes, same as everybody else, and when retired still pay taxes. Peter Criss (and about 60,000 retired ADF personnel) is asking for equality among our peers, and the intent of the original DFRDB scheme to be honoured, rather than watered down by successive governments. If you think they have it so good, sign up, do a couple of tours to a war zone, get posted every couple of years, move your family and kids from their schools and friends, be away from them for prolonged periods, and then tell it like it is.

    • Carl says:

      08:30am | 13/01/12

      Richard, (or should I say ‘Comrade Richard’) I don’t know what planet you’re on or from, but it isn’t Earth. Get real sunshine, the ONLY time ADF pay MIGHT BE UN-TAXED is when the bullets are coming toward you, and that I believe is only when the ATO is told that you’re serving in a ‘war zone’, otherwise your pay is taxed like everyone else.

      Maybe you should go to Afghanistan - but then shooting from the mouth doesn’t really help when people are there trying to kill you.

    • Nel says:

      12:24am | 14/01/12

      Your ignorance & arrogance is astounding .......... Soldiers do pay tax, and certainly have to my personal knowledge from 1966 - at the same rate as all Aussies, except when deployed out of Australia.  And they pay rent/electricity/gas/petrol etc all other people pay!
      They, not their employer,  paid for their pension when serving - with no choice!  And when we could least afford it, it was taken - no choice.  We moved, kids ,pets & all when we were told to.  Moving Expense Allowance to actual costs never made the grade. Kids went to 4/5/6 + different schools in diferent states…..............
      Why am I answering you ..... you are too ignorant to ‘get it’  anyway…..
      And your figures are utter rubbish!

    • richards says:

      12:12pm | 14/01/12

      Let me get this straight, you all think that Major McGuinnes deserves more because he put himself on the line, but then say he isn’t getting a tax break because he’s not putting himself on the line?

      On the other hand you think public servants should be paid less because they just sit on their behinds and push around paper behind a safe desk.

      This is a puzzle, because what does Major McGuinnes do? The article doesn’t say, but we can assume he’s either he’s a fat lazy public servant deserving of a pay cut, or he’s a front line hero. Either way it looks like he’s done pretty well out of the deal and you’re all suckers for self righteous moral hysteria.

    • Murray says:

      08:04pm | 14/01/12

      Dickie boy,
      you conveniently ignored the fact that you were totally wrong about ADF personnell paying tax. You have absolutely no idea of Major McGuines’ circumstances, so your assumptions are just that - assumptions- no facts. No one has said we should pay public servants less, but then Peter Criss has gone in to bat for DFRDB recipients who are being dudded. If you want to go into bat for the public servants, I have no problem with that. Just don’t denigrate our service and exservice personnel.

    • Tropical says:

      10:05am | 12/01/12

      The gillard government had a chance to rectify this BS but chose not to.
      In the House of REP’s last year the required changes to the indexation issue was passed on the ‘voices’.
      When it got to the Senate Labor, the Greens and that clown Xenophon voted against it.
      And so this is where we are at. Pokies, whales,  and reducing the earths temperature are a bigger priority than our veterens.

    • Shooter says:

      12:59pm | 12/01/12

      Tropical can you please advise what the Liberal government did when in power. I believe that the ADF get better paid now then when the Liberal government according to my brother who was based here in Holdsworthy and now in Townsville. I think both Liberal and Labor have treated ADF staff with disregard.

    • Tom says:

      10:18am | 12/01/12

      What about those who have short careers in the ADF but go on deployments in very high risk, and very dangerous environments?

    • Malik says:

      10:19am | 12/01/12

      “Supporting the troops” is just a way of silencing dissent while politicians are trying to drum up support for military action. Notice how they don’t seem to give a rats once the action is over.

      War wrecks people and if we, the people and politicians of this country, insist on sending our troops to war, they deserve whatever physical and mental support we can give them when they return. Too lightly we send people to war, and too easily we forget the toll that exacts on them.

    • EC says:

      10:21am | 12/01/12

      For the first time in a while, I’ve read an article that I’ve both enjoyed and that hasn’t degenerated into a verbal slinging match and for this I’m grateful. I have recently left the Regular Army after more than ten years of service as an officer and agree in general with this article. I don’t believe that the current superannuation arrangements are particularly fair, especially in relation to those provided to MPs. I would prefer to see a more equitable arrangement whereby all superannuation schemes are indexed at the same rate with exactly the same access arrangements, e.g. if an MPs is able to access their benefits upon leaving Parliament, so should everyone else. (I have to admit this may not be technically correct, but it is the common understanding that MPs can do this. Unfortunately, I don’t have time to check this today, but would appreciate any clarification by other posters.)

      In regards to the other benefits mentioned by other posters, e.g. free medical/dental, housing, tax free pay whilst on deployment, etc. I agree that these are excellent benefits, but should always be seen in light of the overall picture. Yes, you may get subsidised housing, but if you are posted to somewhere like Puckapunyal, that in itself has its drawbacks and disadvantages in terms of location, access to services, etc.

      I have yet to ever meet someone who has joined the ADF to get rich. Some of the younger members may have this desire given the continuous deployments to Afghanistan and the associated conditions of service but I doubt that as a general rule that this is the case.

    • Barman says:

      10:24am | 12/01/12

      I thought Peter Criss was a deceased KISS drummer.

    • subotic says:

      12:27pm | 12/01/12

      @Barman, Eric Carr is who you are thinking of. Peter Criss still belts the skins for KISS every so often.

    • Pfitzy says:

      10:41am | 12/01/12

      Abolish state government. Maximum two terms for any politician. No travel allowances except between home electorate and parliament. Minimise travel by utilising electronic communications for voting on IMPORTANT matters, not sitting around gobbling up food at our expense. Sound good? Yep, but the trick is getting politicians to vote for it.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      10:41am | 12/01/12

      Faulty logic. That politicians and bureaucrats are overpaid and have an overly generous superannuation doesn’t mean that anyone else should, it just means that politicians and civil servant entitlements should be slashed and linked to the CPI as well

    • marley says:

      11:04am | 12/01/12

      Well, if people who work for their entitlements are limited to the CPI, then why the hell shouldn’t Age Pensioners and others of that ilk?

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      11:18am | 12/01/12

      @Marley. I fully agree. All pensions should be pegged to CPI only.

    • Shooter says:

      11:33am | 12/01/12

      Shane who do you work for or are a politician?

    • bruce says:

      10:47am | 12/01/12

      Thank you for bringing this up. I was a professional soldier for 22 years which left me with many many extra holes in my body I was not born with. A lot of my soldier friends were killed in action during that period. I make no complaint except to state that the current government has no honour and therefore can not be trusted with this problem. I am not surprised, I expect it.

    • TheRealDave says:

      11:10am | 12/01/12

      Yes, its all THIS governments fault and Julia Gillards personally…..all the other previous governments over your 22 years service and all the year since have been awesome to veterans haven’t they?

      I don’t belitltle ANYONES service, but come on Bruce, you’re better than that. Its been all the bastards - not just this current lot.

    • David J says:

      11:57am | 12/01/12

      Well said Peter Criss. The double standards are breath taking. The Coalition has promised to fairly index DFRB/DFRDB super for those over 55 but all former and serving ADF members are being dudded including those in the current scheme. The promises of government don’t mean much. Fine words on ANZAC Day but politicians real regard for our service people are reflected in their actions not honeyed phrases or photo opportunities!
      It’s time our parliamentarians faced up to their responsibilities to our service men and women. It’s a sad thing when we rate lower than the advertising budget for government programs (that turn out to be a colossal waste of money) or 3 activists shouting for help from a Japanese whaling vessel.

    • Kelly G says:

      12:02pm | 12/01/12

      Julia Gillard is at fault, anyone who believes otherwise is absolutely crazy. Mentioning other governments and what they did and didn’t do does not excuse the current PM and government from making it right. This is the worst PM ever and she will be always remember as such.

    • IStayed says:

      01:08pm | 12/01/12

      @Kelly G, let’s get this straight. A PM in the job for what, 2 years, is to blame for the issues raised by Peter Criss in this article? I believe your comment has got to rank as one of the most purile, mindlessly partisan crap pieces of tripe on this blog. You have to do better than to appear like a PM-hating simpleton when you comment on blogs. The DRDB super scheme was established in 1948 and removed as the primary ADF super scheme in 1992. Gillard was working in a law firm in 1992 and became PM in 2010! Please, PLEASE find something else less trivial, like the end of civilisation as we know it, to pin on her.

    • Ben C says:

      02:57pm | 12/01/12

      @ Kelly G

      I’m no fan of Julia Gillard’s, but even I’ll admit that you’re taking it a stretch too far. The fact that many governments before the current one have had the opportunity to improve support for current and former Defence personnel but failed to do so indicates that governments in general have shown apathy towards our servicemen and women. They deserve better, and if Gillard hasn’t delivered by the time she’s voted out of office, then we can criticise her. As it is now, she’s still in office, and there’s a chance (no matter how slim) of her performing a miracle.

    • St. Michael says:

      12:27pm | 12/01/12

      Out of interest, boys and girls, how many of you are telling potential recruits not to volunteer because of the way successive governments have treated you (or your sons, or your daughters?)

    • L. Mountbatten says:

      11:09am | 13/01/12

      +1, i.e me.

    • Seth Brundle says:

      12:33pm | 12/01/12

      Is the pay and pension of the Armed forces low?  Well, I guess so.  It is, after all, a pretty bad job, a job that you can get when you have no skills or qualifications.  Process workers also receive poor pay and low retirement incomes.  That is the nature of having a bad job, that is why no one actually wants a bad job.
      But what about the danger that is incurred by soldiers?  Well…over the entire “war” Australia has lost a total of 32 soldiers.  32 !!! Deaths of our soldiers are so rare in this “war” that each individual instance makes it onto prime time news.  Imagine if this had happened for the 27,000 Australian soldiers killed in world war 2. 
      There is a lot of mythology and romanticism that surrounds the modern army, riding on the coat tails of the Anzacs, Korean war and Vietnam war veterans who fought in, for lack of a better phrase, “real” wars.  The inference that todays soldiers who are sent overseas (or who get to enjoy the “Dash For Cash”, as they themselves call it) are “digging in” against artillery is ridiculous.  Of course they would dismiss this as bunkum, they certainly do not want to undermine the respect and admiration of the community that they have gained by association with previous generations of soldiers.  I find it offensive that the modern soldier considers themselves in the same league as our genuine veterans. The average motorist in Australia is in greater danger of being killed.
      As for older veterans who now find themselves on low retirement incomes, why would anyone in that age bracket not have a fully paid off mortgage?  What exactly is it they are spending all their cash on?  Also, why did they not make additional payments into their retirement schemes (which is what the rest of us are doing, at least those of us who have not stuck our heads in the sand and crossed our fingers that upon retirement everything will just be fine).
      The comparison to the retirements of MPs is also idiotic.  If you wanted the conditions enjoyed by politicians, you should have become a politician!  Dont complain about being in a situation that was of your own design.

    • marley says:

      01:16pm | 12/01/12

      @Seth Brundle - your argument ignores a couple of things.  It doesn’t matter a damn whether the modern soldier is at greater or lesser risk of getting killed or injured than his predecessors.  It doesn’t matter a damn whether he’s done repeated tours in Afghanistan or sat in an office in Canberra his whole career.  It doesn’t matter a damn whether he’s wasted his money or paid of his house and three investment properties.

      None of this matters because he was promised a pension that would be indexed to maintain his purchasing power.  And the government hasn’t kept its end of the bargain.

      As for the rest, well, apply all of your arguments to the Age Pensioner and tell me why they are more entitled than a retired military man (or woman) to have their pensions indexed at a higher rate.  What dangers have they been in?  What risks have they taken?  Why haven’t they paid off their houses?

      Your arguments are irrelevant to the fundamental issue:  this is unfair.

      As for the politicians, I think it is beneath contempt that they award themselves pensions indexed at a higher rate than they will give to those who work for them.

    • Seth Brundle says:

      01:56pm | 12/01/12

      Many of us have seen our superannuation actually go backwards over the last couple of years but you don’t hear us bleating about it. 
      There is nothing contemtable about politicians enjoying conditions better than the rest of us.  Thats probably the reason they took the job in the first place.  If you think it’s so great, become a politician.  If you are unable to become one, perhaps that explains why they are there and you are wheverever you are.  I’m so sick of people complaining about people who have it better than they do.  “I work in McDonalds but I cant afford the same car as my friend who is a doctor, boo hoo, who can I blame?”.
      All I hear in this article is people who took on a low paying job who now expect to retire in luxury and granduer.  If you wanted that, you took the wrong career path and you should have known that at the time.  If you didnt, dont try and blame everyone else. 
      If your pension isnt good enough, try moving to the third world and living off whatever food you can pick out of the garbage like half of their population.  You’ve got food to eat, a house to live in and free medical care. 
      Poor you.

    • marley says:

      02:19pm | 12/01/12

      @Seth Brundle - I’m not complaining. I don’t get any kind of a pension from any Australian source.  In fact, you’re the one who sounds bitter.

      I’m merely pointing out the inequity of having Centrelink pensions and MPs pensions indexed at a higher rate than military and civil service pensions.  It makes no damn sense.  Why should someone who has had no career to speak of at all, who indeed may have spent his life on benefits, and who hasn’t made provision for his retirement, get a higher pension index than a retired soldier?  Why should the soldier go backwards and the aged pensioner go forwards?  To use your McDonald’s analogy, why should the guy who’s worked 40 hours a week for Maccas for 30 years not be able to afford a car, while his neighbour who’s been on the dole his whole life, can?

      It should be the same rule for anyone on any form of government pension or retirement plan.  One form of indexing, applied to all.  And if that means the pension plans of MPs and Age Pensioners get indexed to the CPI and they both lose out, then so be it.  At least it would be equitable.

    • Ken M says:

      08:43pm | 12/01/12

      Seth - some facts. First legally we were not allowed to contribute additional funds to our super - or to invest in additional super so long as we served. If we didn’t leave before hand most of us (exception very senior officers) were mandatorily retired at 55 - an age when it was historically difficult to find work. And at an age when most people would expect to work another 10 and could accumulate more for their retirment when the kids were off their hands.

      Buy your own house when you are moved every 2 to 3 years - makes it hard. And the reality of the 70s and 80s was anyone over 40 would find it hard to make a career change.

      Fact - military super was designed to compensate the service man for the signficant financial disadvantges of service life. It was introduced at a time when the services had difficulty retaining enough people to provide a core of experienced SNCOs and officers to entice people to give at least 20 years. Many of those that made that committment on the basis of the promise are now suffering financially.

      This issue needs to be understood in the context of the times in which the scheme was established - the 1970s - not today.

    • John says:

      12:34pm | 12/01/12

      Western soldiers are all mercenary’s managed by a corrupt puppet political elite who sell their services to their puppet masters. The US is a perfect example of this defilement. US bombing raids! They charge 1 million per day, you can get a 2 million discount if you buy a 7 day straight services. Step right up! US military slaves! Place you bids! 1 million, 2 million 5 million. SOLD to the man with a suit case of GOLD.

    • Carl says:

      08:41am | 13/01/12

      John, do the letters ‘FO’ mean anything to you? If they do, then Shut TF Up and get off this forum.

    • Ray says:

      12:34pm | 12/01/12

      Unfortunately, a large number of the comments posted above are either off-topic or inaccurate and misguided, which is hardly surprising, given that most of the public (without prior military service) apparently prefer to be informed on Defence matters through myth and legend rather than a modicum of basic research.
      The central premise of the article is that either through deliberate political negligence or bureaucratic incompetence (or both), Governments over the past 20 years or so have broken their contract with long serving ADF personnel to provide a fully-indexed superannuation pension that maintains purchasing power in retirement. This was an employer commitment given on enlistment; an obligation that has since been well and truly breached.

      It is fundamentally wrong and unfair, and no union in this country would tolerate such treatment by an employer.

      All retired Diggers seek is to have their pensions adjusted in the same way as age pensioners. It’s that simple. And if the Government can afford a fair indexation arrangement that maintains purchasing power for over 3 million age and welfare recipients, then it is also affordable (and fair) for 63,000 military retirees. To suggest otherwise (as Government Ministers do) lacks credibility and displays contempt towards those who have served our Nation in uniform for twenty years or more.

    • marley says:

      01:09pm | 12/01/12

      @Ray - while I agree with everything you say, I think you also have to factor in that the Commonwealth public service retirees would expect the same form of indexing, and I expect they’re probably more numerous than the military.  That doesn’t change the issue of fairness, though.

    • Michael says:

      01:48pm | 12/01/12

      I agree,pensioners are doing it tough.We don’t get $90,000 a year let alone get a $90,000 pay rise.We never got overtime or time off when or sick day.7/24/365 and worked hard to keep our Country and others FREE for all.God Bless Australia as our Goverment hasn’t got time.

    • Ruffy says:

      11:15am | 13/01/12

      Ray is right. Even though the article clearly defines the issue relating to unfair or lack of Indexation for a significant group of ex Diggers the point seems to have been missed or it has triggered responses that are not relevant to the issue.  This indexation thing needs direct support from as many people as possible from all walks of life not just currently serving or ex-service personal. When something is as blatantly wrong as the treatment these fine people are getting its bloody well worth while getting behind the efforts by those that are working hard to fix it. I served with the RAAF from 1964 to 1970 and received the fine DFRB payout of a beggarly $1080 after 6 years. To benefit from this scheme I would have had to remained in service for another 16 years however at the time I read an article by a senior Officer who reckoned that the DFRB was at best a racket , I think he even wrote a sequel suggesting that the DFRB was still a racket.  This was no incentive but it was warning to anyone that was considering staying in the service at that time.  I calculate that both the Major and the Sargeant would still have been young men when they ‘retired’ on their well earned pension. To many civilians this might seem to be a factor however the ‘unique nature’ of service life is a much bigger factor. What a service person effectively does is to, through neccessity,  sign over a lot of rights and freedoms that civilans take for granted. ..perhaps this issue should be taken out of the political arena and put in the hands of a committee comprising of some clear thinking people that can thrash out a solution. There is no doubt in my mind that it would produce a win win outcome for those that deserve it. Its just a pity that something that effects so few can be kicked around so much by so many, and leave doubts in the minds of young people that may want a career in our prestigous and well regarded military.

    • Richard F says:

      04:21pm | 19/01/12

      The point of the article was that Fair Indexation of our retirement pay was simply “A Condition Of Service” and that all Govt’s of both major political parties moved the goalposts by changing the method of indexation.  I was in the Army 1976-1996 when peacekeeping missions were very thin on the ground and therefore never had the opportunity to serve overseas.

    • Brendon says:

      12:59pm | 12/01/12

      It staggers me that people still think that military veterans in this country are not well looked after. Lets go through some of the benefits veterans (rightly) receive:

      They are able to be paid their retirement pension after 20 years of service. The rest of the population cannot access super until they turn 55 - 60.
      After 20 years of service, a pension of 35% of final salary is paid, risk free, for the rest of your life. Assuming you commence service at 20, and retire at 40 on $80,000pa, this gives you a guaranteed pension for life of $28,000.

      Assuming you continue to work for the next 20 years, you can contribute this amount to super, claiming a tax deduction for most of it, and receive an additional $560,000 plus earnings. To put it in perspective, the average Australian retires with around $90,000 in total, with no additional pension.

      If you choose to stay in the ADF for 30 years, you receive 51.25% of final salary, increasing to 76.5% for members with 40 years service or more. If anyone thinks this is not generous enough, please point me to a retirement plan anywhere in the world with better provisions.

      Remember that ADF members do not need to take market risk, this is taken on by the government. Very few other super members are able to take advantage of this.

      Spouse benefits and dependent benefits are also fantastic.

      New members (Who use Military Super) receive between 18% and 28% of their final salary per year of completed service risk free. Still significantly higher than the standard Superannuation Guarantee amount.

      The downside of all these points are as follows:

      You can’t transfer out of DFRDB - this disadvantages members without 20 years of service.

      Your annual pension will be indexed to inflation (3.5% at last measurement) versus Pensioner/Beneficiary Cost of Living index (4.1% at last measurement).

      If you take a rational look at the actual numbers, you see that veterans are very well looked after compared to the rest of the community (as they should be). It’s obvious why the government isn’t budging on the PBCLI issue. 1: the super schemes are already very generous and 2: it would likely cost a fortune to do so.

    • St. Michael says:

      01:31pm | 12/01/12

      That’s an interesting analysis, Brendon.

      The only point I’d make is that it won’t necessarily be true frontline troops who make it to 20 years in the service.  They’ll either be killed or rendered redundant due to injuries suffered in the line of duty.

      Officers and other mid-to-high level ranks who don’t see combat and don’t do regular physical stuff like physically hauling gear around—careerists, in other words—are therefore much more likely to be able to access that scheme, and I’d argue with generous terms like that the careerists are in it for the retirement benefits, not for the country as such.  Consequently the retirement bill is larger for upper ranks than lower, since the upper ranks get paid more.

      This model certainly fits with the US Army, where the retirement benefit is 50% pay after 20 years service rather than 30 as indicated here.  It’s so accounted for that you can see a distinct drop in pay increases for US servicemen after they reach 12 years of service—mainly because they figure they gotcha and you won’t resign over the pay because you don’t want to risk your pension.

    • Factual Man says:

      02:51pm | 12/01/12

      DFRDB finished in 1988/89.
      Your arguements are flawed.
      The whole arguement is for a ‘fair go’ with regard to indexation.
      If you have not served in the military then that would explain your ‘staggering’ lack of understanding.

    • Diogenes says:

      03:02pm | 12/01/12

      After 20 years of service, a pension of 35% of final salary is paid, risk free, for the rest of your life. Assuming you commence service at 20, and retire at 40 on $80,000pa, this gives you a guaranteed pension for life of $28,000.


      WRONG !!!!!!!  My niece is a Squadron Leader and this lurk finished 6 months before she started at ADFA - there will be few troops around today enjoying this

    • Brendon says:

      03:06pm | 12/01/12

      HI there Factual Man. Are you saying that there are no longer contributing members to DFRDB? My argument is that they already get more than a fair go. Feel free to put forward a rebuttal.

    • Brendon says:

      03:10pm | 12/01/12

      Diogenes, existing members still receive this treatment. Also, I addressed the issue of new members with this sentence:

      “New members (Who use Military Super) receive between 18% and 28% of their final salary per year of completed service risk free. Still significantly higher than the standard Superannuation Guarantee amount.”

      Again, Please feel free to put forward an argument that states that our servicemen and women are not adequately catered for. I’m happy to be proven wrong, but you’re going to need some facts to do so.

    • marley says:

      05:45pm | 12/01/12

      @Brendan - the issue isn’t with the size of the pensions, dammit. It’s with the indexing of the pensions.  Why should some government pensions be indexed one way and other government pensions another?  Why should the military get a lower index than the Aged Pensioner or the MP?  Can you think of a reason?  Because I can’t.

    • Brendon says:

      09:24am | 13/01/12

      Marley, to be honest I’m not overly concerned. This is a fight between veterans and the government, but the title of this article - ‘Why have we abandoned our troops’ is quite simply false when you look at the actual figures. Veterans are, and mostly always have been very well looked after compared to the rest of the community and the rest of the world (and rightly so).

      I just wish people would realise that the federal budget isn’t the bottomless pit of money that eveyone thinks it is. It will cost $4.1b to increase the indexing as the veterans wish. My point remains that they are already more than adequately provided for.

    • TheRealDave says:

      11:12am | 13/01/12

      Ahh the DFRDB scheme ended in the late 80’s early 90’s. From memory, in the article actually, less than 4000 ADF still serving members are still under the DFRDB scheme as they have been in for more than 20 years and are still under the old scheme. The other 71000 ADF members are under the new scheme that does NOT allow them to access their Super after 20 and they can only access it just like everyone else when they hit 65 and retire.

      I stopped reading after that. You may have made some decent points but why bother reading if you cannot get the basic underlying premise correct?

    • Murray says:

      11:28am | 13/01/12

      Brendon, you have revealed your true colours. You are a government stooge. If you really believe it will cost $4.1B, then you believe the rubbery figures advanced by the DOFD to support the government’s stance. Treasure cannot substantiate theis figure, and no one from the government will profer these costings for detailed analasis, as they know there are huge holes in their figures. The figure $4.1B is supposedly over 45 years, and most of us will be long dead and not costing a brass razoo. Fess up - you are a card carrying labour member!!

    • holden says:

      01:10pm | 12/01/12

      From .. “Home at Last”

      When will we ever learn, to care for all those caring ones who went away,
      who gave their hearts for us, and some their lives as well,
      but who to tell?
      they’re sleeping now.
      They’ve all gone home.
      They’re home at last.

    • Marilyn Shepherd says:

      01:43pm | 12/01/12

      What precisely are they protecting us from and why are stupid boys who were in primary school when we attacked Afghanistan joining up to go to Afghanistan?

    • marley says:

      02:26pm | 12/01/12

      @Marilyn - well, what precisely are the Age Pensioners protecting us from, that they should get a higher index?  And why should the politicians who ordered those “stupid boys” into Afghanistan also get a higher index?  Why should you expect to get one?

    • Max Power says:

      02:35pm | 12/01/12

      They are protecting us from the kind of people you and your kind want to have free entry to this country at our our expense.
      They are joining up to fight tyranny and oppression because it is a more noble and worthwhile cause, than climbing onto Japanese whaling vessels or taking to to the streets protesting because illegal immigrants coming by boat are being detained like the criminals they are.
      It is ok, they fight so you have the freedom to post your poison.

    • Tropical says:

      02:44pm | 12/01/12

      If you cannot figure that out then go and get an education.
      I hear GETUP are looking for stooges.
      Now go back and infest sites that suit you - the ABC,SMH, the AGE and of course the Drum.

    • Seth Brundle says:

      02:45pm | 12/01/12

      They are there to protect us from the Chinese and Indonesian armies… and to solve the issue of Islamic terrorism by joining the U.S. in bombing Afghani peasants and taking their oil.

    • Bill says:

      01:53pm | 12/01/12

      In 2009 pensioners were granted an increase but special legislation was snuck through parliament to exclude all DVA compensation from that increase, all Centrelink disabled gained the increase so why aren’t those wounded in action?

    • Robert S McCormick says:

      02:13pm | 12/01/12

      I get it now! The Armed Forces, because they are not allowed to speak, are fair game for every uninformed or ill-informed person in the country.
      I can only assume most of those who have done so here are Federal, State or Territory Politicians intent on deflecting any criticism of their greed and disloyalty to our ADF personnell. (No, I am not ADF - either past or present).
      Where is the criticism by them of the obscene, totally undeserved Pay and Perks our MPs have so conveniently, & so often, arranged for themselves.
      Politicians: Free First Class Air Travel, Free First Class Rail Travel. Virtually Free Luxury Motor Vehicle of their choice which their parasitic families are allowed to use, which MPs can use to go on holidays anywhere in Australia and for which the hapless Taxpayers foot the bill for All Fuel & All Servicing. Free First Class Hotel Accommodation
      Wasn’t Rudd reported as having recently stayed in some luxury hotel overseas at a cost of a not-so-coll $1600.00 per night?
      And just who do you think is paying for all of this unnecessary luxury? The Australian Taxpayers - & that includes members of the ADF.

    • stephen says:

      02:30pm | 12/01/12

      If ADF personnel do not like their working conditions - that is, present staff, and all the recruits looking for a good and steady income so that when they get out they can open a security business and make a bundle - then they should look for employment elsewhere.
      But it’s not good enough that they sign up, then want more perks.
      Contractual positions such as in the Defence Force are explained to encumbents clearly, and the type of job on offer is too.

      Today in the newspaper I read that an inquiry has uncovered widespread sexual assaults occuring whilst on base, and mainly from those in basic training.
      If randy cowards is all the ADF can offer the security of this country, then lets hoist the white flag, lay down our rifles, and play dead.

    • Tropical says:

      02:41pm | 12/01/12

      You really are an ill informed numpty, and so of topic that your reality is scrambled.

    • Murray says:

      02:58pm | 12/01/12

      Stephen, thank you for tarring the whole defence force with the same brush. The vast majority are decent caring people who put their lives on the line to protect each and every one of us, and give us the right of free speech, whether that be factual or ill informed drivel, or sensationalizing transgressions by a small minority. Sexual assault is a crime and abhorred by the majority of ADF personnel. The few who transgress do a great dis-service to those who defend our freedoms. Many here have gotten off the track re Peter Criss’s well informed comments. All we are asking for is a fair go and equality among our peers. Nothing more, nothing less. Is that too much to ask?

    • TheRaptured says:

      02:40pm | 12/01/12

      Soldiers and the public are sick of fighting these globalist wars, that benefit the technocrats. We are sick of fighting these wars for the new world order. The real world is to stop these criminals that run our government and stuff sports and celebrity down our throats by the minute, while our unwilling military is fighting wars that take away our freedoms at home. The corporate media treat us like lobotomised sheep and tell us idiots to fight these stupid wars, while we are being de industrialised, look at Holden’s. We face a different race of people who hate us. The global elite, who the punch supports.

    • marley says:

      03:14pm | 12/01/12

      Who are these mysterious elites, and why do they want us to drive Holdens?

    • TheRaptured says:

      09:45pm | 12/01/12

      Had your pills and flouride today Marley?

    • Rod says:

      02:41pm | 12/01/12

      I can’t believe comments made here about soldiers and there service .
      Soldiers of today are no different than those of the past , its a matter of the timming wether your digging in or not !. The fact is they stand the line and take what ever comes there way . Motivations are varied why they stand the line , some go prepared with informed and mapped out agendas , some strole in with out a clue . My war was a good war , lucky for me . 
      Some ask what or who they are protecting ? these are people who have never known fear or dispare , ingnorant people . This debate of looking after soldiers should never arise . Our society should simply look after retired service people as they would any other public servant .
      I have a son and it will be my intention he never serve his nation . He is better off looking after his own interest then standing too for most people today that call them selves Australians.

    • Viggen840 says:

      03:42pm | 12/01/12

      DFRDB (and before that DFRB) was changed to the current MSBS because it made the politicians more vulnerable with their parallel superannuation system.  Since then, the gola posts have not stopped moving.
      What AVM Criss has continuously done in his campaign is to lobby for equality for service and ex-service men and women.  Politicians of both sides of parliament are not interested in anything (financially) other that what they get.  Continued sniping is the only way our ADF members are going to get satisfaction.  Fight the good fight.

    • Smeds says:

      03:51pm | 12/01/12

      Keep up the good work Pete. It is a pity so many of your readers take it as an opportunity to mount their own soap box and distract from the real purpose of getting a fair deal for military pensioners.

    • stephen says:

      03:56pm | 12/01/12

      If the motive for entry into the Forces is not money and conditions, then why are so many complaining about it ?

      Some years ago when I applied for entry into the Services, I remember I was answering aptitude questions at a computer and a young chap next to me was having troubles with them, (he was constantly looking at my screen and running his hand through his hair and shifting in his chair) and later on, after we’d completed the tests, told me that he’d failed the tests, and was told that his application was unsuccessful.
      I was struck by his admission, (and he was upset, too) and I’ve often thought, and still do, that the ADF is looking for the wrong people.
      He was a very young reasonable chap, uneducated, and the perfect person to be trained in modern combat.
      Just who is the perfect person to fight for us ?
      Not the current crop, obviously.
      I mean, the Navy can’t get submariners, (don’t like confined spaces they reckon, or is it only the money ?) yet I read that the Services are bleeding personnel and going to the Mines.
      The ADF is, I repeat, looking for the wrong type of people.
      They should be recruiting from schools, and leaving the genuises with perfect teeth for private school lassies.

    • St. Michael says:

      05:04pm | 12/01/12

      So go with conscription.  That allows the ADF to draft exactly the kind of people it wants for compulsory military service.  Missing a particular skill? Get it from the private sector.

    • stephen says:

      05:41pm | 12/01/12

      “Particular skills’ are not what I’m emphasizing.
      It’s the general ones I stress ; ones that seem to me to be important : energy, a willingness to listen and reasonable health. The lad up top seemed to have all these, yet he and other losers I met on the lift on the way down flunked cause they couldn’t pass a ridiculous IQ test that would have stumped an astronaut.
      These kids were a bit rough, admittedly, but they were ignored because they were apparently ‘untrainable’.

    • Jane2 says:

      08:01pm | 12/01/12

      Stephen you are once again showing how little you know about what Defence personal do.

      Btw that supposedly genius IQ test is designed so anyone who has competently passed Yr 10, vs just attended, can pass it.

    • stephen says:

      09:00pm | 12/01/12

      Let me just go off the above writer’s point a bit more :

      Psychologists have determined that the higher a person is trained, and the more attenuated their knowledge, and the more, at the first instance, they have the neccesary genetic attributes for entry into the ADF, then the more they are most likely to follow orders and, specifically, to form personal methods of teamship and empathic relationships with other soldiers.
      This is the idea of these tests, and all well and good, but they restrict the kind of people who may not be successful at the initial testing stage, but who, with much more training than the requited 16 weeks, may make superb soldiers.
      The ADF should expand the basic training schedule, and accept a much broader personality type and aptitude.
      It would solve many problems of recruitment, and furthermore, it may be time to involve Navy, RAAF and Army personnel in combined exercizes on a regular basis.

    • Angry says:

      09:39pm | 12/01/12

      Stephen, you don’t make any sense…“He was a very young reasonable chap, uneducated, and the perfect person to be trained in modern combat.”  Just who do you think you are to make those assessments just by sitting next to the person?  What do you know about “modern combat”? 

      You could offer your services to the ADF as a recruitment expert.  With skills like yours they could do away with all those useless aptitude tests.

    • Tommy says:

      09:40pm | 12/01/12

      Stephen you haven’t stated why you were rejected for the armed forces, or if you were accepted (which I doubt) why you so intentkly dislike the defence forces

    • Murray says:

      09:04am | 13/01/12

      Stephen, your vast “knowledge” of the recruiting process is as laughable as your insipid commentary. The ADF must make do with limited resouces, so obviously they need to be able to pick the best candidates who in their experience, make the best Soldier, Sailor or Airman in a certain timeframe. They do not have the resourses to spend an inordinate amount of time getting someone up to the minimum standard. That would divert much needed resouces away from the people who really need,  and currently struggle to get decent equipment.  Seems like you didn’t make the cut, but don’t let that hold you back. If at first you don’t succeed, try again. Others have. I’d love to hear from you in the front line. Again you have diverged from Peter Criss’s original story, which basically tells how successive governments have continually eroded the puchasing power of retired service personnell’s DFRDB pensions.  Many of the retirees are powerless to redress a formula that is continually adjusted to their detriment. This was not the intent of the DFDRB scheme they signed up for when they served their country.

    • stephen says:

      03:12pm | 13/01/12

      I failed the general knowledge testing which was done about a week after the other stuff, but at any rate, I don’t have a personal beef against the ADF.

      They should enlist a wider variety of applicants ; ones who don’t winge so much, and who might feel grateful to serve their country.

    • John Chesterfield says:

      04:11pm | 12/01/12

      Well said Peter.  At 78 I have to keep working to augment my DFRDB payments to maintain a REASONABLE standard of living for myself and my wife.  I despair when I think how she will manage if I die before she does.
      How in God’s name could the House of reps pass the bill to properly index our retired pay on the voices only to have it defeated in the Senate by one vote.  What a terrible example of Labor Party leadership!!!

    • Leslie.J.Baynham says:

      04:31pm | 12/01/12

      Both sides of government have ignored this claim for indexation & both should hang their heads in shame.

    • Against the Man says:

      06:34pm | 12/01/12

      You can only blame the government of the day. Gillard was born to betray and fail.

    • Len Triplett says:

      04:36pm | 12/01/12

      This inequity is overdue for redress. I am very glad to see this issue raised, we must get through to the politicians that we ex- servicemen are not third class citizens to be fobbed off.  My vote will only go to supporters of a change for the better.

    • Philip Crooks says:

      07:16pm | 12/01/12

      Read Tommy Atkins by Rudyard Kipling that I think says it all.

    • Rob S says:

      07:18pm | 12/01/12

      Thank you Peter Criss. An excellent article.
      The issue is about fairness.  If it is fair for some 3 million Australians to have their age pension indexed to maintain its buying power (Higher of CPI, 27.5% MTAWE or PBLCI) why is it not fair to index military superannuation pensions of some 63 000 former soldiers, sailors and airmen at the same rate?  After all, indexation to maintain purchasing power is and was one of the government ‘guarantees’. 
      Are the military superannuation pensioners fat cats?  NO!!  The average military superannuation pension is less than the couples age pension.

    • wearestardust says:

      08:13pm | 12/01/12

      When I first read this article I was, aside from noting the usual lobbyist rhetorical flourishes, like others making comment rather appalled.

      On further reflection I am less impressed by the arguments.

      Some background.  Federal politicians elected in 2004 or before, Commonwealth public servants who were in the service prior to 1 July 2005, Judges, ADF members, and state public servants (I don’t know about state politicians) all have “defined benefit” schemes; that is, their pensions are based on a calculation, not on the performance of the investment of their super contributions.  For ADF members this is based on years of service and final salary; for Commonwealth public servants, the average contributions a proportion of salary also figures.

      Most other people have to manage with an allocated pension.

      Armed with that:

      1.  All of these arrangements are extremely generous, particularly in terms of indexation, by general community standards for people who don’t have defined benefit schemes.

      2.  Not getting the same benefits as politicians is a bit of a weak point.  We know that politician’s benefits used to be applied with a money-hose. 

      3.  Commonwealth politicians elected after 2004 don’t get those generous benefits (it will be recalled that Howard ended the arrangements after being double-dog dared by Latham).  They now have to make their superannuation arrangements with complying funds like the rest of the community.  I presume ADF members aren’t suggesting they want that.  The suggestion seems to be “we want arrangements like those that even politicians realised are ridiculously generous” – if one takes the comparison with politicians to be a serious point, rather than an emotional flourish.

      3.  The aged pension is not a superannuation pension.  It is a safety-net payment.  It is also not particularly generous.  By my rough figuring, an ADF member who started (after trade qualification) at about the lowest rate of pay for a private, and is never promoted or given an increment, over twenty years would on retirement get about the same as the aged pension.  On that score also the comparison is not entirely apposite.

      4.  An ADF member having served twenty years will generally not yet be 40.  Do we expect that people retiring in their 40s would have a generous benefit to set them up for life?  Usually ADF members, on leaving the service – other than those who obtain great rank and therefore serve for much more than 20 years – will have another career and amass further superannuation benefits. 

      5.  It is not clear what statements to the effect that CPI doesn’t match cost of living mean. The claim seems to be appropriated from evidence given by ABS officers to some parliamentary committee to the effect that CPI measures inflation, not cost of living.  That is strictly true.  Then again, one usually can’t get an ABS officer to admit that 2 is more than 1 without qualification.  In practical terms, if that’s not cost of living, what is?  The reason why the aged pension is better than CPI is not just because it has a better cost index, but because it has as a floor growth in (and I mention this with trepidation) Male Total Average Weekly Earning – in other words, it is (partly) linked to community spending power, not costs of living.  If the ADF member’s argument is “we want our pension indexation to be linked to community spending power like the aged pension”, then say so: don’t pretend it’s about costs of living.

    • marley says:

      06:07am | 13/01/12

      @Wearstardust - while you make some good points, I do think some of your arguments are not all that relevant. It’s not the size of the pension that’s the issue, it’s the formula for indexation.  No, I don’t expect a 65year old retired soldier with 20 years service earlier in life should have a military pension big enough to live on, but I do expect that his pension should be indexed as generously as the 65 year old age pensioner living next door. 

      I have seen arguments that the CPI is the appropriate standard for the military and civil service pension, for the reasons you’ve outlined, and also because retired soldiers aren’t contributing to the productivity improvements which are reflected in the AWE, and therefore shouldn’t benefit from them.  But then why should age pensioners?

      The issue for me is the double standard - the unfairness of rewarding one group of people one way, and another another way, particularly given that the more favourable index goes to those who arguably deserve it less.

    • Brendon says:

      09:36am | 13/01/12

      Wearestardust, don’t forget that these veterans are also eligible for the Age Pension on top of their ADF pension, albeit subject to income and assets testing.

    • wearestardust says:

      12:37pm | 13/01/12

      @Marley: thanks for your comments.  I think pensions is another discussion though.

      Thinking overnight about the issue, potentially what drives part of the pension increases is that pension indexation does two things.  First, it sets the rate at which people commence the pension.  In the case of superannuation, that is set by how much people put away, which is largely a function of how much they earn.  So I think it’s pretty uncontroversial from that perspective to link the pension to growth in wages.  Pension increases also have the function of increasing rates for people already on the pension, and if one were to raise a complaint, that’s where it would be.

      This seems to me to be more a matter of concern about neatness rather than fairness, though.  First, there wouild be the administrative complexity of having to maintain a set of pension commencement rates and then for each recipient keep track of what they’ve been paid, and index just the amount they are getting.  I don’t want to overstate the difficulty of that, because that gets done for every person on an indexed pension.  But it still would need to be done.  More pertinently, the pension is not much money and people on the pension are rarely better off than people living withsuper, +/- pension.  I don’t quite see it as outrageous discrimination.

      @Brendon: indeed, but my post was already too long!  Thanks for point it out.

      While I’m posting .... I should also point out that I didn’t in the above take enough care with the circumstances of those ADF members in the MSBS scheme.  They don’t get their benefits until (sacrificing accuracy for clarity) retire properly.  But otherwise the arguments are the same, and I note that those jumping up and down about the pensions they started being paid in their late 30s or early 40s aren’t complaining about the treatment of MSBS members.

    • doogsie says:

      02:23pm | 14/01/12

      Wearestardust: Reading your posts, I am inclined to believe that you are either a disgruntled Public Servant who has worked with defence uniformed staff in Canberra either on defence policy or the DFRT, or with DFRDB or maybe you are an ex serving politician who worked for the Office of the Defence Minister. Which one are you?

      You have probably had a bad experience, maybe you had a falling out with a defence member, or you have an ongoing gripe with the methods and means of how defence personnel are remunerated, because you think you should receive the same conditions because you work as hard as they do?

      In one of your posts you say that “I have no problem with the conditions of the ADF being too generous” This statement clearly points out that you think , uniformed defence personnel are paid more than they should be.

      You then say: Do we expect that people retiring in their 40s would have a generous benefit to set them up for life?

      No we don’t expect this, but we expect that DFRDB pensions be indexed possibly in line with the MTAWE or an equivalent method if one exists?

      The behavior of the Consumer Price Index (CPI) has differed noticeably from that of other measures of price changes as I am sure you are aware.

      In January 1993, the then Government decided that CPI indexation of the age pension, the method of indexation that had prevailed for many years, had become inadequate. The increases in CPI no longer resulted in sufficient increases to allow aged pensioners to live respectably.

      It set a floor level for the age pension of not less than 25% of Male Total Average Weekly Earnings (MTAWE). That floor level has prevailed in the determination of the age pension ever since and was passed into legislation in 1997.

      In 2002, the Reserve Bank of Australia’s Officers Superannuation Fund Board of Trustees reviewed the method of indexing the pensions of its members. As a result, the RBA changed from an annual indexation linked to the CPI to half yearly indexation based on the change in MTAWE.

      Neither of these changes would have been made if the CPI had remained a reasonable reflection of changes in the cost of contemporary standards of living.

      The changes were made because people with access to privileged information knew that the CPI had become an inadequate reflection of those costs.

      Does the above look familiar to you? You may have read this somewhere? If the Reserve Bank thought that CPI indexation was not an indexation method that could be used on just terms for its members, then it must be true that the CPI indexation is inequitable?

      This is the same Institution who has the responsibility of providing fiscal advice and services to the Government of Australia. The same institution who provides advice to the Treasurer.

      Why doesn’t the Government take the lead of the RBA on this issue? But I suppose the Government is filled with disgruntled public servants or politicians who are deluded in thinking that defence salaries, conditions of service and pensions are far to generous in comparison to the hours they work and the conditions they work in and under.

      .

    • Doug says:

      08:55pm | 12/01/12

      Agree with the article TOTALLY.  I am enraged with the insensitivity of politicians.  Ignoring the plight of those in retirement that had put their lives on the line while agreeing to massive income and superannuation increases.  Politicians might look in wonder at the “Arab Spring” but they would be much better off if they were to start looking in their own backyard.  Their constituents are not happy.

    • Stuart says:

      09:13pm | 12/01/12

      Well I must be the only old soldier to be happy with his lot! I was a rifleman in the Korean war, and what a bastard of a place that was !  I am now 83 years of age and an EDA pensioner. I have a few problems but money isn’t one of them.The Missus is my carer and she gets moey for assisting me from time to time but I’m going alright. between us we get about $1800.00 per fortnight which you clever lads will have figured out is about nine hundred bucks a week
      I have a chiropractor who keeps me walking, and I am very glad I joined the army and was lucky enough to serve in the 3rd battalion Royal Australian Regt A fine body of men even if most of them were Australians and not Scottish—-but there were a few of us there. Pollies are all arseholes but some are better than others. I reckon this girl we have now is all right. when you join you agree to serve our government, and she is the boss so get off her back. If you can’t take a joke you shouldn’t have joined!!

    • Murray says:

      09:22am | 13/01/12

      Stuart, thank you for your service to this country and for serving in what is widely acknowledged as atrocious conditions. We should all be grateful. Stuart I am a DFRDB recipient, and after tax, I get $620 per fortnight. If it had been indexed fairly, and our successive governments had not tampered with the CPI formula, then I would be a bloody sight better off. I am bitter that 20 years of my life serving my country means so little to this and previous governments. The one thing the bastards can never take from me is the pride I take in having faithfully served my country, just as you did.

    • Ray says:

      02:39pm | 13/01/12

      Stuart, I am happy that you are happy with your lot. But please don’t compare apples with oranges.
      Your circumstances are not the same as those trying to survive retirement on a military retirement pension which continues to have its buying power eroded year after year because the CPI adjustments don’t keep pace with the cost of living. It used to, but over the years, Governments have allowed the formula to be deliberately manipulated away from a true cost of living index. This is why the Government changed the formula for the age pension and your EDA pension, because those pensions were also losing their buying power.
      Governments have chosen not to allow the revised formula to be used for military superannuation pensions. These are pensions that ADF members paid for throughout their service, and when they signed on the dotted line, they were given a commitment from their employer (the Government), that after completing 20 years of service or more, they would have a pension that would maintain its purchasing power. In the handbook for the current military super scheme they are still saying the same thing, even though the Government knows it is a blatant lie. It is a major condition of employment that Governments have knowingly breached.
      You’re right Stuart, the current girl in the Lodge is the boss, and the buck stops with her. She could make this issue go away with the stroke of a pen, but like her predecessors, she chooses not to.
      Perhaps if you were trying to make ends meet on the average military super pension, which is less than the couples rate age pension, and seeing its value erode further each year, you wouldn’t see the joke in it.

    • Terry Warren says:

      09:20pm | 12/01/12

      You should all be aware that talking to anyone who has not had Military Service is a pointless exercise.  They always attempt to equate Military Service with an imagined civilian equivalent, and it isn’t. Never was, never will be.  I separated from the Defence Force in 1982 after completing twenty years service. Since then, like all the others, I have seen my DFRDB pension dwindle. Apart from poor indexation, there is the two percent that a Federal Treasure named Keating took from us during his ‘recession’ that we had to have.  Two percent may not sound much, but, unless I misunderstand completely, that loss compounds with each successive CPI increase.  Typical politicians, behaving typically!

    • Jim Poland says:

      09:27pm | 12/01/12

      The Contact Australia Party (search on Facebook) hopes to change this anomoly and every other Governmental/Political anomoly that exists. It was started by a group of ex-Infantry soldiers but is open to anyone and everyone. It’s aim, quite simply, is to improve conditions and Standards for ALL Australians, initially by stamping out Governmental/Political waste and unfairness. We are currently seeking interested persons to grow and eventually register the Party (Federally and within the States) and put together candidates for election. It is NOT a boys club for ex-Infantry or ex-Military. It IS an organisation for ALL Australians. ethos1948@hotmail.com

    • Angry says:

      09:28pm | 12/01/12

      All else aside, government promised members of the ADF a pension that would maintain its buying power.  The ADF are the people Government order into harms way whenever they deem necessary.  Government has reneged on its promise and apparently doesn’t care that ADF retirees are now in financial harms way because of their refusal to honour their promise.

    • JIM says:

      07:09am | 13/01/12

      Treatment of the military across the board is shocking.  My later father was stuffed around and stuffed around and my brother has recently got out on medical grounds.  He remains so badly physically impacted from his military service that it is almost impossible for him to get a job but they have advised that it will take 12-18 months to sort out any pension for him.  In the mean time he has to live on centrelink benefits.  It takes him months to see a specialist and the number of medical stuff ups would fill a book.

    • Seamus says:

      07:24am | 13/01/12

      Well done Peter Criss.  A great article and at last it looks like the media may be starting to pick up on our angst.

      As far as “Jack” goes, well, the fact that he probably still has a tailbone and drags his knuckles on the ground says it all, doesn’t it?

    • Vince Restuccia says:

      08:17am | 13/01/12

      No one denies that our people in the Armed forces do a great job and have always served Australia well and are proud to do so both in peace and war. All they are asking for is to be treated fairly after their service to the nation is finished, by ensuring they have a decent life style and that their pension is maintained to do just that.  With all the wealth we have in Australia we could afford it - if not why not.

    • Marty Squirrel says:

      09:13am | 13/01/12

      Thank you Peter Criss for bringing this to the public eye, this has been going on for far to long. Also thanks to Neil Weekes in north Queensland for his untiring action. As both of you are retired Senior Officers of the Defence force still looking after the ‘troops’ it saddens me that the likes of recently retired Angus Houston is not doing the same for his men. I am a retired RAAFie and do very much watch every cent spent.
      To Tim a lot of retired Defence Force people are well into their sixties, surving on DFRDB pensions, we have made it this far, I hope that you make it as well.

    • Peter says:

      09:15am | 13/01/12

      What annoys me is that unless a high ranking official ‘rattles the can’, politicians don’t bother listening.  I retired from the RAAF after 22 years with a reasonable non-commissioned rank.  For years, I (and many like me) have written to, asked, pleaded with and even had meetings with politicians, only to receive the mandatory glib stock standard answer.  In short “you don’t matter mate and nor does your one little vote” 
      IF I had sat on my backside all my life I would receive all sorts of government assistance that is indexed to something better than the CPI.  Why can’t military super be indexed the same.  Better still why can’t it be indexed the same as that other form of ‘public servants’; politicians?

      Question to “Jack”;  What life support system are you on?  I always thought that the humane thing to do for brain dead animals was to administer the ‘green dream’.

    • Phillip Marsh says:

      09:22am | 13/01/12

      As an exserviceman with 20 years service I am distressed that my ” paid for” pension is not indexed at the same rate as an old age pensioner. Even though I paid for my pension it is regarded as unfunded and I have to pay tax on it. Ex servicemen and women are being treated unfairly by a government I expected to behave fairly to all Australians.

    • Steve Aspinall says:

      09:29am | 13/01/12

      Well done Pete. Keep up the rage. Where was Senator Xenaphon et al on the score of affordability after justifying his vote against fair indexation because the Defence budget could not be increased. Quite hypocritical (not that we should be surprised) that by hiding behind the Remuneration Tribunal recomendations that affordability and costings are not part of the decision matrix. When I raised the issue of Fair Indexation with my lacal Federal Member, Stephen Jones (a rising star in the Labor Party), he admitted no knowledge of the issue. I hope the retired community get behind your efforts.

    • doogsie says:

      09:37am | 13/01/12

      The unfair DFRDB pension indexation is a disgrace and needs to be fixed, there is no questioning that issue. Also another issue that needs to be addressed with regards to Lee Enfield’s military compensation complaint is the fundamental question being the ‘method of offsetting’ when determining military compensation claims for injury during service. This offsetting is only used against a certain group of Defence personnel i.e. committed and long serving Defence personnel who have suffered injuries prior to 2004, for which they have been compensated under the VEA and/or the SRCA and injured after 2004 are denied compensation.

      An advocate can not help you with this no matter how experienced he or she is.
      This is the real story on how the offsetting method works, how it may be affecting Lee Enfield and how it is affecting me being a long serving member. The Government both Labor and the Liberals in conjunction with Defence, seriously need to look at this issue right now, if defence and the government want to be seen as caring about the welfare of its people and being a responsible employer in the eyes of the public. This also ties in with fair indexation of military pensions (being a responsible employer).

      The method of offsetting for military compensation does not apply to anyone else who are Commonwealth employees, being DVA staff or ADF civilian employees covered under the SRCA who are still under the ‘whole person impairment’ system. The SRCA uses the whole person impairment (those words and the guide to assess the impairment is based on this concept) and not the VEA model which is a system essentially to pay a pension for the effects on lifestyle up to 100% of the pension and then above that rate is referable to one’s incapacity and nothing to do with a person’s impairment of their whole person).

      The High court in the last 3-4 years looked at the very concept of the Whole person impairment and whether you can actually receive separate payments for the impairment based on distinct injuries and not to roll them up in one payment only to represent the impairment of one’s whole person.

      In the cases of Canute and Fellows the court found that as the SRCA is a ‘compensation scheme’ its very design is to compensate for each and very injury SEPARATLEY and not to ’offset’ in effect or to ‘combine them and only pay one lump sum. Hence why if you have 2 separate knee injuries like the defence member – Fellows had, you actually get 2 separate lump sum payments FOR EACH CONDITION ; you compensate a person for each injury and not combine or to take it to the extreme case in DVA – MRCA ‘ method of offset’ the lump sum payment from DIFFERENT INJURIES .

      This is a new adaptation of the whole person concept and does not apply to DVA public servants who get injured under the SRCA and per Canute and fellows will be compensated for each injury and not have it reduced or ‘offset’ due to having received a payment for a previous and distinct injury.

      The Federal court in James said that the offsetting model was ‘permissible’ and valid as the MRCC have the power to use whatever model they want. It does not mean it is fair as the court pointed out – This is not the job of a court by the way as we all know a lot of unfair outcomes are maintained by courts because the process involved is ‘lawful’ which is all the court had to rule on. If the method of offsetting is ‘Fair’ why have DVA and Defence themselves argued to change the model when looking at the reply to the Mil comp review??

      The Minister who brought in the MRCA – Dana Vale said publicly in “The Australian” that the legislation was not intend to do what the Mil Rehab Comp Commission (MRCC) are doing with the method of offsetting that they ie not parliament being the people’s elected representatives created. So why is it that the bureaucrats are acting outside what parliament intend when it comes to such a corner stone of compensating or otherwise a defence member who happens to have been injured and compensated previously and for a different injury?

      Why wait for the government to change something that is not in the legislation ie the ‘method of offsetting’ as it is the MRCC and not parliament responsible to devise the method as the Federal court correctly pointed out in James.

      Again, who is responsible for the method? Well, at least 2 out of the 5 MRCC members are from DVA and Defence so why are they waiting for parliament in response to the Mil Comp Review , they created it and they can change it.

    • doogsie says:

      09:39am | 13/01/12

      A continuation to my last post: The military compensation discrimination is greatly effecting current, long serving uniformed defence members. As stated in the Army Health Continuum, the Army is charged with the responsibility for ensuring effective MRCS policy development. Army backed by the ADF as a whole needs to take the lead on this and apply direct pressure on the 5 x DVA and MRCC public servants to change the current method so that it is on “Just Terms” fair and reasonable for serving uniformed members.


      All current serving personnel would expect the post 2004 Military Compensation Policy, would have been written in a manner that would mirror defences intended commitment to the ongoing welfare and long term well being of the injured soldier, and not defences support of a discriminatory offsetting rule designed by 5 public servants who sit on the VEA -MRCC . An Offsetting policy designed to disadvantage soldiers who are injured with (different injuries) during their service prior to 2004 and post 2004.
      What alarmed me a number of weeks ago was that the Defence Minister was on TV promoting a Commando Trust Fund that the government help kick off with a $8 million donation. “What a disgrace”. If the MRCS policy was written in fair and just terms as I am sure was initially intended, but seemingly was never the intent of the 5 man public servant team on the MRCC, this new Commando Trust fund would not be required.
      What happens if the dead or severely injured soldier is not a member of SOCOMD, had a separate injury that he/she claimed compensation for prior to 2004 and then has his/her leg blown off by an IED whilst serving in Afghanistan in 2011, and under the new discriminatory offsetting rule is deemed to have negative impairment points by an MRCC delegate which does not entitle him/her or their family to any form of lump sum compensation for his /her new injury?  (this is the reality of the current offsetting rule and how it works) Does that mean there is no adequate support like a Trust Fund to look after him/her and their families because he/she is not an SF member?
      The people that make up our organisation are serving our country and fighting for a Government who seemingly does not care about implementing or to intervene with the intent to change a bad and unjust scheme for a fair and just Military and Rehabilitation Compensation Scheme. The unfair discriminatory compensation scheme, with an offsetting rule that no other Commonwealth Public Servant is burdened or disadvantaged by, when they suffer from a new or different injury whilst at work.
      The same goes with fair indexation of DFRDB pensions “be a responsible government and defence be a responsible employer and fix this welfare and compensation issue that is greatly affecting many ex and current serving personnel to levels that you seemingly cant even fathom.
      These two issues are massively affecting the image of the ADF as not being a responsible employer, “I don’t want to see this happen” These issues must be fixed sooner rather than later.

    • Ron says:

      10:37am | 13/01/12

      It annoys me that people - who likely have never served in the Defence Force - can sit and make the judgements in some of these comments. The issue is that the DFRDB pension is still linked to CPI whereas all other pensions having ditched that measurement. We are after equality - that is all. Yes it will cost more money but not as much as has been bandied around by the pollies. Unfortunately the pollies pay rise is detracting ( rightly or wrongly) from the real issue. Yes the pollies could reject a pay rise but no one else ever would so it is unlikely they ever would.
      Enact the Legislation changes required to adequately (and correctly) link the Military pensions to a positive form of measurement used by all other Government pension schemes. As an ex-serving member of 23 years that it what I want - equality and recognition that my service was respected.

    • Scott Hill says:

      10:45am | 13/01/12

      Thanks Peter for maintaining the pressure; I seem to fall into the category of those that constitute the silent or quiet majority who appreciate yours and others efforts. There are a lot of issues being raised here, we (whom you are representing), need to ensure we maintain momentum by supporting and ensuring your campaign maintains the aim and focus on the issue at hand. We should not allow the “mission” to be disrupted by issues that need to be tackled separately. The “enemy” as it were will continue to take advantage of any fractious argument, no matter the intent, to “divide and conquer”. Keep up the great work.

    • Ted McEvoy says:

      11:00am | 13/01/12

      Having served 20 years with the RAAF (and a Vietnam Veteran) who is a DFRDB recipient, I am directly affected by the disgraceful treatment offered by the Federal Government towards the long-serving members of the ADF. We are certainly very, very angry as to why we are being treated differently to others, especially the politicians. All we want is a fair go!!!!!!

    • Barry says:

      11:43am | 13/01/12

      Having read and digested the arguements that the “Fair Go” requests have published, it appears that greedy politicians have no conscience.  It is the armed forces that have contributed to the Australian way of life since federation, not politicians   Politicians are in it for their own selfish gains.  Not one of them get to an election unless they have proved beyond reasonable doubt that they are immerced in the politics of the party that they serve.  This effectively blocks out any result other than the political spin of the ignorant who think they represent the Australian people.  Wake up Australia.

    • Ian says:

      11:49am | 13/01/12

      I served 26 years in the RAAF and feel we are being let down by politicians with their snouts in the “I will not have to do a thing” trough, simply looking forward to a VERY comfortable retirement. Adde perqs don’t hurt them either.

    • Ken Railton says:

      11:56am | 13/01/12

      What an interesting bag of informed, uninformed and just plain ignorant comment.  The myths about priveleges and conditions would make the informed laugh if they weren’t so misguided and malicious.  There is NO other job that requires you to sign away your personal rights and requires your commitment 24/7 and has the right to gaol you if you don’t comply.  There is no other job that tells you where you will work and requires you to move on a a regular basis, again with no control over how often or how far. ADF members are not employees of the Government, they are servants by definition.  Yes, there is some hurry up and wait, but you had better wait, no getting bored and sloping off here!  In return the government provided us on entry with a set of conditions that from our end at least were cast in stone.  If you weren’t happy you didn’t join, but once in, the rules are the rules!  Oh and don’t forget that ADF members by signing on accept the risk of death or injury as a given and get on with the job as required.  The proof of our ongoing commitment is that Australians are free and speaking English!  That wasn’t the work of politicians, much as they would like you to believe it, it was the result of a dedicated and respected Defence Force.  So, we all do what is required and the lucky ones come through alive and without impairment only to find that our lords and masters have changed their minds after the fact and our retired pay will not be what was agreed when we stepped up to the mark.  Why? Not because we haven’t done our job, but because here lsan easy way to free up more money to waste on vote winning projects and programs and besides our job is done - for now at least!  Our job allowed them to make these decisions, but once done, was clearly forgotten.  Lest we forget, they love to say: well they have and so it would seem have a few contributors here, who I suggest take their freedom a little too lightly!

    • Robert Eddy says:

      12:34pm | 13/01/12

      I contributed to Defence superannuation for 27 years for a 45.75% super retirement benefit and a reasonable lifestyle in retirement.

      Successive governments insistence on Indexing Defence super solely by the CPI has reduced my benefit by $339.91 per fortnight ($8,861.94 per annum) to just $16.66 more than the aged couples’ {non contributory} pension.

      My current retirement pay is equivalent of a serving member, retiring today (same rank, age at retirement, commutation etc.), that has served just 20 years or, is in receipt of a 35% retirement payment at todays’ rates.

      Had Defence superannuation been indexed the same as the {non contributory} aged pension in 1997 (changed because the CPI no longer indicated the cost of living) then my super pay would be almost exactly the same as the equivalent serving member, retiring today (same rank, age at retirement, commutation etc.) would receive which suggests that the indexation that is applied to the aged pensions would have maintained the ‘Purchasing Power’ of my retirement pay.

      Have Defence retirees received what they paid for?  No.
      Do Defence retirees have a ‘reasonable lifestyle in retirement’?  No.
      Do Defence retirees have a reasonable expectation of a ‘reasonable lifestyle in retirement’? NO,but they paid for it and the government contracted to provide it.

    • Ken M says:

      12:51pm | 13/01/12

      In the early 1970s the military was struggling to retain sufficient numbers to maintain an adequate number of senior NCOs and officers. It was common that people would leave at the end of their initial period of enlistment. Pay and conditions were poor when compared to that on offer to civilians.

      Military life puts strains on families that most civilians don’t experience. Frequent postings – every 2 to 3 years impacts on children’s education and makes it more difficult for the military partner to establish a career and accumulate superannuation. There is regular and what can be prolonged periods of separation while the member is on duty. Frequent postings meant that many could not buy a home, thus placing them at financial disadvantage compared to those in the civilian community – and, if you’re wondering, military families like everyone else pay rent.

      The DFRDB scheme recognised that a commitment to the military could significantly disadvantage a family and was designed to ensure that that disadvantage did not continue when the member who had give 20 or more years service transitioned to civilian life. It recognised that the member may have to relocate and/or undergo a lengthy period of training in order to find suitable employment and that this could take place when family commitments were high. It also recognised that some members may be unable to find permanent work or be forced to take unattractive and low-paid employment. For many, especially SNCOs, this has been the reality.

      With the exception of very senior officers service men and women faced mandatory retirement on turning 55. Today it takes 63 weeks on average for someone over this age to find work – it was much harder in the 70s and 80s. In fact it was difficult for anyone over 40 at that time to find employment and the fact is that many who gave 20 or more years found themselves in that situation. Most Australians – then and now –at the age of 55 can expect an additional 10 years to accumulate for retirement when family commitments have lightened considerably.

      The indexation arrangements in the DFRDB scheme were meant to ensure the retired (from the service, not necessarily from work) service man or woman would maintain their living standards in retirement and would not be disadvantaged in relation to their peers of same age. Rather than achieve this goal changes to indexation arrangement have entrenched economic disadvantage for many veterans.

      It was also designed to be an incentive for service members to give 20 or more years service. As I came to the end of 15 years I gave serious consideration as to whether I would sign on again. This promise got an extra 5 years out of me. I, and many others, made a commitment to this country. All we ask in return is that the government of the day keep the commitment this country made to us.

    • wearestardust says:

      12:58pm | 13/01/12

      I note the conversation being drawn away from the arguments raised by AVM Criss towards the idea that ADF members are special, and ipso facto should get more.

      I do think ADF member are special, and I support good conditions for the ADF.  I think it is entirely reasonable that the community should treat ADF members well.

      However, once again (and partly repeating points I made earlier), looking at AVM Criss’s arguements:

      - “ADF members’ indexation is less than politicians, and politicans therefore are bastards”.  Sure.  Politicians are bastards, we all know that.  But even politicians realised in 2004 that their conditions are so over the top that they ought not be allowed any more.  So I call disingenious on that one.

      - “ADF members’ pensions are indexed by less than the aged pension and therefore are not keeping up with the cost of living”.  The aged pension is deliberately indexed ABOVE the cost of living.  So I call bullshit on that one.

      - “Politicians have not kept ADF pensions up with the cost of living because CPI is not the cost of living”.  That relies on either misunderstanding, or obtuse misinterpretation, of what CPI is.  I call bullshit on that one too.

      What the argument being advanced boils down to is this: “we in the ADF are paid at the very least better than the average Australian full time wage and salary earner(*), we have a generous pensions scheme with indexation far better than the average community member, even if it is less than politicians used to get or what judges get now.  Some of us got our pensions before we even turned 40.  But we are special, and we want more.”

      Sure that’s put in an inflammatory way.  But thats the essence, not the bullshit argument that is being advanced.

      Frankly, I would be embarrassed if someone were to advance on my behalf with an argument as full of misdirections, obsfucations and half-truths as the one being put in favour of greater ADF pension indexation.

      (*)I will ‘fess up to a teeny bit of hyperbole here.  It is true that the lowest ranked qualified members, in their first year of service, will earn a bit less than the average full-time wage and salary earner, including service allowance but not including those ADF members’ benefits such as food and housing.  After that they’re above again.

    • Ken M says:

      01:41pm | 13/01/12

      wearestardust - your comments are irrelevant and misinformed. The issue is one of what the government promised us and what the government has delivered. We were told that we would have a retired pay that would maitain its purchasing power - that we would not fall behind others in retirement. Govt has acknowledged in different places that CPI is no longer a fair measure. It has changed over the years - one signficant factor being the removal of mortgage and other credit costs from the calculation. The need to buy a house after discharge was one of the specific things the DFRDB scheme was meant to provide for. Changes to the CPI to our disadvantage are nothing less than a retrospective change in conditions of employment.

      And while I cannot speak with authority on service conditions today, we paid rent for what was often poor standard housing. And as a single member housed in barracks we still had rent deducted and we still paid for our meals.

    • Ray says:

      02:22pm | 13/01/12

      wearestardust, If your employer changed your empoyment package to your significant financial detriment, long after you had entered into an employment contract, and without the slightest consultation, I wonder how vocal you would be about your situation. That is the crux of this situation, regardless of how many red herrings are introduced by others.
      Secondly, even with the revised indexation arrangements, age pensioners who rely on the pension alone, are not pocketing loads of spare cash or living a fancy lifestyle. What they receive is necessary to meet continual rises in the cost of living.

    • Tommy says:

      03:07pm | 13/01/12

      Wearestardust yiou seem to have overlooked that the DFRDB scheme was closed in the late 1980s so those few who received a pension before 40 are now in their mid to late 60s.  There are only about 57,000 DFRDB recipients still alive and as their average pension is only $25,000 per annum (according to Department of Finance figures), so their pension is about $950 per fortnight.  When you are married this is less than the pension paid to married aged pensioners, who never paid for their pension unlike DFRDB recipients, and who are also still taxed on their pension after 60 years of age, unlike other Australian superannuants who no longer pay tax on their super payment after 60.  They are not asking for much, just to have their DFRDB pension indexed the same way as are other welfare and aged pensioners have theirs indexed.

      Do you also consider this to also be bullshit?

    • wearestardust says:

      03:44pm | 13/01/12

      @Ken: thank you for at least trying to explain why you think I am wrong, even though I bridle at being told I am misinformed and that my arguments are irrelevant.

      The “promise” that all this circulates around is the idea that ADF members would have pension increases that keep in line with the cost of living.  The closest measure we have to that is CPI.  I am aware that it is stated that CPI, technically, is not a “cost of living” index.  But the reasons underlying that are very technical and, if one wants to press them, then there is no such thing as a cost of living index and we should abandon the idea of cost of living indexes.  Bottom line: CPI is an inflation measure.

      As to changes to the CPI: yes, changes have been made such as the differentiation between CPI and the Treasury MEasure of Underlying Inflation (the subtext here, by the way, in case you are not getting it, is that I am rather the opposite of misinformed on these matters.  I have had occasion to do this stuff for a living).  The changes to the CPI are made by the ABS, to correctly and more appropriately measure - from their perspective - inflation.  You might disagree with the ABS, but any such disagreements will be about technical definitions, not the government ‘not keeping its promises’.  As far as the expert statisticians of Australia are concerned, CPI is correct as a measure of inflation.

      I don’t believe that the deductions for housing and food met the costs.  But that doesn’t matter.  I have no problem with the conditions of the ADF being too generous. What I have a problem with is bullshit arguments to try and get advantages from the taxpayer on false grounds.  I don’t think even being an ADF member is grounds to do that.

      On which point, I’m not quite sure in what sense my arguments are irrelevant.  The arguments being advanced by AVM Criss - I’m not going to hold him responsible for constructing them; they appear in various forms in various places in the net, and while the 2-stars I’ve met and worked with in the past have usually been very smart and impressive people, economists and statisticians they aint - just don’t stack up and are, frankly, nonsense. 

      Finally, references to government saying CPI is not appropriate?  There are periodic reviews of exactly this question, most recently IIRC in the last year.  CPI still found to be the appropriate measure.  But my knowledge of that is not encyclopedic so I may well be wrong.

    • wearestardust says:

      04:07pm | 13/01/12

      @ Ray: but there have not been changes to conditions of service.  That is the crux of the issue.  I’ve said why (for the third time, I think) in a response to Ken M, which hopefully will turn up on the site a little before this.

      I have had my super changed, by the way, by the government, like many people born after 1960; my preservation age has been changed since I entered the workforce.

      @ Tommy: I’m not sure leaving out the DFRDB closure affects the comments you are responding to.  I did leave it out of earlier comments and added a further comment to note that.  It still didn’t affect those arguments I made earlier, and just highlights that the members and ex-members up in arms about indexation of pensions under the DFRDB and earlier schemes don’t seem to be fussed about MSBS members and their deferred (relative to the superior schemes, not relative to the general community) either.

      And I have been at pains to point out that I am neutral about whether the indexation for ADF pensions should be changed, but I will wear the failure to communicate that as communication is in the first instance the responsibility of the writer.  What is bullshit is, among other things, saying that indexation by CPI doesn’t keep up with cost of living because the aged pension is indexed at a higher rate.  That’s just plain false as it misconstrues both the CPI and aged pension indexation.  I hope that’s clear enough now.

    • modern vet says:

      01:32pm | 13/01/12

      so to all of you who are commenting about this article and have no actual idea about it….. its very interesting, the people whom you comment about that work at russel are staff officers who have completed over 20 years themselves. Further how dare you say we as currently serving members are paid well or have to much…... when was the last time you slept in the freezing cold, while it rains on you for weeks on end? when was the last patrol you conducted through the jungles of East Timor? can you recall the last improvised explosive device that went off around you or your colleges at your work place? no you cant! so stop commenting on this issue….. you cant call your self Australian and have these views…....if anything soldiers at all ranks should be paid higher and better looked after in the community

    • St. Michael says:

      03:50pm | 13/01/12

      Diddums.  It’s a volunteer army paid for by a government.  If you didn’t realise what you were getting yourself into, spank yourself on the hand for your silliness and find something else ASAP.  Not to mention there are plenty of private sector jobs which involve continuing lethal risk to one’s health, enduring inclement weather conditions.  The only difference is that you have to produce something meaningful to get paid for doing it.

      Look after yourself.  It’s what people in the private sector have to do every day.

    • Marc says:

      04:58pm | 13/01/12

      @St. Michael

      Oh really? So which private sector jobs have equivalent risk to say someone serving on patrol in Afghanistan with the same pay and benefits
      our troops there are getting? Oh, thats right, NONE!

    • TheGrumpySumpy says:

      06:03pm | 13/01/12

      St.Michael. Yes, there are civie jobs that place indiviudals at risk - fire, police, rescue workers to name a few. All civilians have the right to withdraw labour at any time and to refuse any instruction that places them in harms way. Any serious injury to a civilian worker would draw an OHS investigation and possible prosecution. Military workers do not have the right to disobey a lawful command that can send them to their death. And while the ADF does come under Commonwealth OHS (now WHS) legislation operatational requirements may negate the legislation. As to not realising what you are getting into, how many 15 or 16 year olds - the age group I was in - know what they are getting in to. But I continued to serve as I got older and am proud of that service - and of the fact that I know I could have left for better pay and conditions but didn’t. The issue here is that what we were promised has not been delievered by the govt - after we left.

      As to ‘doing something meaningful’. Well, you may not think that committing to defend your nation even if that means you could be sent to your death as something meaningful then I don’t know what is.

      If you feel that way perhaps you would have no problem living in a place like North Korea.

    • St. Michael says:

      11:29pm | 13/01/12

      @ TheGrumpySumpy:

      “Military workers do not have the right to disobey a lawful command that can send them to their death”

      Sure they do.  If a lawful command is blatantly wrong and due to an oversight, they have a moral duty to object to it, simply because it’s not lawful.  Since we’re parroting historical examples, you saying that the charge of four waves of men at the Battle of the Nek was not a blatantly stupid order that should not have been followed, and that court martials against any digger who refused to go would have stood up?

      “But I continued to serve as I got older and am proud of that service - and of the fact that I know I could have left for better pay and conditions but didn’t. The issue here is that what we were promised has not been delievered by the govt - after we left.”

      Then the error’s yours, not the government’s.  If you knowingly left yourself in that situation and you weren’t the subject of conscripted service with terms of enlistment as “for the duration or until the conflict is over”, you have no excuse.

      As for stuff promised by a government: how old are you again?

      “As to ‘doing something meaningful’. Well, you may not think that committing to defend your nation even if that means you could be sent to your death as something meaningful then I don’t know what is.”

      I didn’t say ‘doing’.  I said ‘produce’.  By definition the military in peacetime does not produce anything, therefore you cannot quantify and thus properly measure its success.  The only things it produces are in wartime, and the product they’re meant to produce are a string of unambiguous victories.  As it is, Australia hasn’t been at declared war since, when, Korea, and it hasn’t had a lot of unambiguous victories recently if you judge the results in Iraq or Afghanistan.

      I’m not against a strong military.  I’m against it being all-volunteer except for highly specialised branches which require lengthy continuity of staff.  For the most part the ADF is not so.  Meaningful, binding, and comprehensive conscription legislation would ensure the ADF has all the troops it needs, that it only goes to war when it absolutely has to, and that it gets on and wins those wars when it does.

      @ Marc: “Oh really? So which private sector jobs have equivalent risk to say someone serving on patrol in Afghanistan with the same pay and benefits our troops there are getting? Oh, thats right, NONE!”

      Yep.  Because private sector people are smart enough to demand commensurate pay for their time and their risk.  The armed forces, QED, are not.  Miners share a similar lethal risk in their work, but they do not stand around beating their chests and demanding respect from the country just because they have the jobs they do.

    • marley says:

      04:29pm | 15/01/12

      @St Michael - I think the military was pretty productive when it came to Cyclone Tracy, and all the cyclones since.  I think it’s, if not productive, at least useful, when it goes on peacekeeping missions for the UN, when it pulls asylum seekers out of the ocean, when it rescues sailors caught under overturned boats, when it nabs Indonesian boats fishing illegally in our waters. 

      Your vision of the military is quite a narrow one.  And it has nothing whatsoever to do with the argument being put forward - that the military was promised certain things by the government, and the government has reneged on those promises.

    • St. Michael says:

      01:21am | 16/01/12

      @ marley: my vision of the military is a narrow one because its primary purpose is defending this country and winning our wars when we get into them.  It’s a narrow vision because everything else is secondary to that.  It is literally the most serious business in the country.  None of the examples you’ve cited amount to core defence business, absent the glorified coast guard activity of intercepting asylum seekers.  Nor are they practice at winning wars either symmetrical or asymmetrical (espeically not UN peacekeeping, which by definition is at best not shooting at people or at worst a police action - not a military activity of conquest or defence).

      You can be awesome at making coffee, but if you’re a crap typist or telephonist you won’t survive long as a secretary no matter how good a barista you are in the office kitchenette.  Frankly I couldn’t give a hoot at how good the military is at rebuilding houses if it doesn’t know how to shoot straight or regards its primary job as anything other than to do so.

      To be fair to the military, of course, they don’t get a lot of practice at their core activity of frontline defence of the country because it doesn’t happen that often.  Which, let’s be frank, is mostly because America spends the cash and has the nuclear umbrella that keeps us from having to have a military capable of sustaining the defence of this country for more than 4-6 weeks of all-out conventional war.

      The military being promised certain things which were then reneged on does not put them in a special category of the community.  Indeed it merely means they’ve joined the rest of Australia who have had promises broken by the government at various points.

      If the military really wants that to change it will do the only thing it is legally permitted to do: stop encouraging people to volunteer for it and calling for no-exceptions conscription.

      It won’t, and the RSL in particular won’t, because it prefers to keep an aura of mystique about its activities.  And whilst it’s still an all-volunteer army, its members can continue, QED, to beat their chests that they are entitled to more on the sole justification that they signed up when others did not.  And QED, governments will not listen because they know there aren’t enough servicemen to change an election result.

      Therefore it’s quite simple: you have to take care of yourself.  Because governments will not.  Most people not working in government departments (and many that do) have already figured that out and put their affairs in order.  Anyone who hasn’t is learning a little too slowly for their own good.

    • Gusman says:

      03:50pm | 13/01/12

      Ok, as a currently serving combat soldier, you all make me angry. Please, without experience please don’t comment. Those who claim several afghan deployments (reservist or not) I’m sure you were not there in a combat role. We are compensated for service overseas but the article is referring to the unfair balance between politicians and serving members. From a frontline JNCO perspective, we do what we do for pride, pride for our nation, the remuneration is secondary, those who criticize us, I invite you to walk a day in any soldiers shoes… Please just leave ignorant opinion to yourself and read the article for what it is truly trying to illustrate.

    • wearestardust says:

      06:11pm | 13/01/12

      Gusman, one doesn’t need combat experience to understand how pensions and statistics work.  That is was the article is about and the arguments are spurious, not to mention a little specious.  If you want to make an argument that ADF members deserve more because of the nature of their job, fine go ahead and make the argument.  But that’s not the argument being made in the article.

    • wearestardust says:

      04:21pm | 13/01/12

      @ modern vet: thank you for your service.

      That last time I slept in the freezing cold while it rained on me we were in a period of peace (perhaps the last such period) so the risk of being sent somewhere where there were IEDs wasn’t an issue for me. 

      But your comments don’t alter that AVM Criss’s arguments don’t stand up.  And no amount of ADF hardship changes the ABS definitions of the CPI or the MTAWE.

      In fact your comments support mine.  If you think ADF members deserve better conditions due to the nature of their service, then say so.  Clearly.  Recognising where ADF conditions fit in with the general community, and without a pretence that they are worse than they actually are.

    • Ex Vet says:

      04:54pm | 13/01/12

      @ all of the above. I read a car sticker the other day that sums it all up, “If you can read this thank a teacher, If you can read it in English thank a soldier” You wanna be’s out there, while you sit in the comfort of your house remember, we gave you that choice, when you wake up, we kept you safe, when your children smile, we were the ones who made it possible for you to see that smile. Do yourselves a favour, sit down and talk to a soldier, whether returned vet or a soldier, ask him/her what he/she gave up so YOU could have YOUR cry baby whinney arssed opinion. Some of you people need to join up and live that life as it is obvious to me YOU really have NO CLUE! Period

    • wearestardust says:

      07:02pm | 13/01/12

      Still doesn’t make MTAWE a cost of living index.  Not my opinion, fact.

      If an ADF member states that 2+2=5, that’s wrong regardless of their employment and experience, and it is not disrespectful to say so.  Especially if it is being used as the basis for an argument.

    • John says:

      05:09pm | 13/01/12

      I am currently in hospital , recovering from another medical bout. Reading all the comments and trying to digest it all. Sounds like, as usual and to simplify, DEFENCE members have no voice, either in government or anywhere.
      Keep in mind you are a burden on the public purse, until things go wrong. Once the thing is sorted, you are back to being a burden.
      And yes, I am a DFRDB recipient, 23 years in the RAAF.
      I would be happy to add to a class action, by a reasonable affordable amount.
      Ladies and gents, you can write all you like, but it will only be read, but not actioned. Where is the RSL in all this, .... Very quiete, I note…..

    • Trev says:

      06:02pm | 13/01/12

      To Jack at 10:24am - how dare you!!! I’ve just returned from ‘Standing on that Wall’ and have just seen my family for the first time in months.Subsidisation of those areas you mention go some way of making up for the lower salaries that we are remunerated with. I stand on that wall by choice because I know there are people like you that are in the community. Your village needs you back.

    • Chyna Willcox says:

      12:07am | 14/01/12

      Tell me what have politicians done for our country besides destroy it (esp the current lot) The men and woman of our forces in alot of cases have devoted their lives to the protection of our country. My husband was one of them and the years we spent apart, me at home him deployed, surely deserve some respect and remuneration- not just for the sake of it, like the politicians but so they can live their lives knowing that their country cares about all the sacrifices they have made.  Its about time we all stood up and rejected anything less than an apology (like our indiginous Australian received)and also backpay and pay rises to bring us up to speed with the currect cost of living.

    • Pete L says:

      12:49pm | 14/01/12

      Peter, I applaud your article. You hit the nail on the head.
      I served for 28 years in our fine force and when I joined in the late 70’s, my instructors were men who had just returned from Vietnam. Many had done at least one if not tours fighting in SVN. These guys tuaght me what real soldering was about. When I finished my career with the ADF, we had changed drematically as a force. I served overseas on 5 occasions in war zones and war-like zones. Maybe some of ‘fakers’ who answered the call to this article may want to think about why you really responded to this article. It was obviously not to throw your support behind this discussion, but more obviously you were either “bored shitless” in you mundane civilian job or sitting on your fat arses waiting for your next dole check. Hopefully, next time before you “extract the digit”, you should think about the damage your BS un-researched impressions of a thought process is doing to your legitimacy as a real human and more likely you as a member of the Australian society.
      Oh yes, if you consider yourselves TRUE BLUE Aussies, and I say ‘Aussies’ very lightly in your cases, if any of your comments were really worth replying to, you may have said something constructive to even back up your view.
      The above people I am referring to above are: Against the Man at 6:34 am and your mate Acotrel sitting beside you at the railway station after you have just sprayed grafitti on the train carriages in Sydney) Acotrel at 6:34 and 6:35am, respectfully on Wed 12th Jan 12; Afghan Vet or should I say ‘Pretend Reservist/Army Cadet; Jack at 10:24am (who probably just woke up) on Wed 12th Jan 12; Richard at 11:07am (sitting down for your smoko while waiting for the bus to take you to Centrelink on Wed 12th Jan 12; Tim at 11:38am (who was taking an early lunch) on same day; St Michael or is it St Michelle at 1:21pm having another smoke break after just finishing a 2 hour lunch break; and last but not least John and Seth Brundle at 1:34 and 1:35pm respectively, who are still wasting their life away lazing at home playing computer games, I dispise all with a passion.
      Do any of you wankers suffer from PTSD or had to take medication prescribed by the Government that hasn’t been tested for human benifit, because political wizard has read some obscure article that this new drug (that has been already tested by the US Military 15 years and medically and clinically documented to case nightmares, migrane headaches, and case the user to loose short term or long term memory “PERMANENTLY”. NO I guess not.
      For my service of 28 years, yes, I was diagnosed with PTSD before I left the job, medically. Specialist in your community “Civilian Street”, said I have a 60% disability, the DVA ‘specialists’ said less than 10%. My pension after figting for 4 years with the beaurocrats and the BS red tape and using an RSL ‘part time’ advocate is $6,732.00 per year taxed at 30%. That’s it. Not entitled to any other benifits. This works out to $174.46 per fortnight. Can you live on that, pay off a mortgage, food, utilities for a family. SO DON’T SIT AND BLOW BS UP OUR ARSES. I take medication daily to keep me just stable and then I forget, because of my m emory loss 4 days out of 7. Go off the rails, have nightmares 3 times a week, thrash around in my bed and leave my wife with bruises without knowing I do it, and I take a controlled drug, which means I have to be registered by the state, to just keep me awake while drive or do any work at a computer. So for all of you fake f#@$#$ckers who have responded to Peter’s article. PULL YOU HEAD IN, Get of your derriare, research your argument,and then if you still don’t have a constructing discussion, look around you at people much worse off than yourself, who can’t get work, have to rely on help from family and friends or have to resort to taking work contracts offshore, in dangerous remote areas to survive.
      Peter, I’m sorry for this tirade at those brain deficient people, who have discussingly placed destructive critisism against your good work, but I felt that something must be said.
      All my best to you at the work that you are doing.

    • St. Michael says:

      05:52pm | 14/01/12

      To which the answer is, daisy: were you or were you not a volunteer?

      If so, you accepted the risks of your job willingly.  You are still arguing the age-old issue that you ought be treated better simply because you volunteered.  When you’ve got a better argument than invoking rear area guilt and rather silly ad hominem attacks, come back and talk to me.

    • TheGrumpySumpy says:

      08:29pm | 14/01/12

      @ Pete L. Well said.

    • TheGrumpySumpy says:

      09:01pm | 14/01/12

      @ St. Michael. You really don’t get it do you. It is not about being treated better than anyone else. Military service is not about getting rich - it is about service.

      The issue is what we were promised in relation to that service and of holding government accountable to that promise. You are obviously of the view the government should not be held accountable - that they have free reign to change the rules at whim.

      But, then again, your attitude to having a conscripted military service would probably be better placed in North Korea.

    • Murray says:

      02:16pm | 15/01/12

      @ St. Michael, the real St. Michael is one 0f the principal angels; his name was the war-cry of the good angels in the battle fought in heaven against the enemy and his followers.  You are none of the above. From Thomas Gray’s poem ‘Ode on a distant prospect of Eton College’ (1742), I borrow the following: “where ignorance is bliss, ‘tis folly to be wise”. You must have a very blissful existence indeed.

    • TheGrumpySumpy says:

      05:03pm | 15/01/12

      @ Murray. Spot on. No doubt extremely blissful.

    • St. Michael says:

      01:02am | 16/01/12

      @ TheGrumpySumpy:

      “Military service is not about getting rich - it is about service.”

      Okay.  Let’s put that to the test.  Lay down all of your pay and other accumulated benefits of being in the armed forces and do the job for free.

      Applied across the entire board, I’m pretty sure you’d find out who were in it for the service and who were the mercenaries.  And probably there are a lot fewer of the former than you reckon.  Although given the haranguing we’ve seen over indexation, I think my point’s already well made and without real counter.

      Oh, and in terms of poets? I prefer Wilfred Owen.  Particularly when he talks about “the old lie: dulcie et decorum est pro patria mori.”  Being familiar with Thomas Grey and hopefully the other classics, you’ll be able to translate the Latin for yourselves I’m sure.

    • Pete L says:

      01:18pm | 14/01/12

      Hi Peter,
      Great article.
      Problems with our Politicians
      1. All Political parties to blame for the Problems relating to our pensions.
      2. Politicians who turn up to ANZAC Dawn services especially those in local Goverment….just to get a feed, and get media coverage.
      3. The Australian Media who no longer send “War Correspondents” to cover the wars ‘from the front lines’, we now only get a distorted view. The Australian Actor Errol Flynn, his son volunteered to go to SVN, did two tours and was reported as MIA. The Balibo 5, the ABC Reporters who were killed by the Indons, this is the sort of coverage we are mising, not just jumping on a junket trip with the PM for a 1 hour visit to Afghanistan. Bring the fight back home and report it in the “House” in Parliment.
      Instead of just hiring any Public Servant to fill the positions at DVA, place in Ex-vets who ‘know’ what other Vets are going through, so claims can be moved faster, files aren’t lost, or ‘misplaced’ for one or two years without recourse.
      Unfortunately the DVA is referred to by Government as their internal Insurance department and the longer the ‘claim’ can be held up, the better it is for them.
      We definately require more fully trained advocates, less BS, and more compassion by our Government toward those members of our community who are doing it tough due to their red tape.
      That’s it for me.

    • JOHN THORP says:

      01:27pm | 14/01/12

      What people all forget that in the dfrdb we had a good Superannuation scheme that was making money but when Whitlam and co got in they decided that they wanted that money and put it into Consolidated revenue and said that we would get our super from that. Then later on when Hawke and Keating were in they stopped even giving us the CPI raise for three years because of the depression that we had to have and no Government either Labor or LNP have ever given us those 3 years of cpi rises back they are all tarred by the same brush. Also we had no choice about our super being taken out of our pay each fortnight and it was taxed then and is still being taxed again now that we are getting our pittance

    • Wg Cdr John Downing RAAF (Rtd) says:

      03:23pm | 14/01/12

      Recognition of Miitary Service

      As a nation, it is our custom to raise monuments and erect statues to commemorate our armed forces personnel who give their lives in military service to our country.

      Better we should also enact statutes to properly recognise the service our armed forces personnel, and their families, who make sacrifices every day in the service of our nation.

      Moreover, the hypocracy is palpable when we see are political leaders stand in theatrical array to welcome the bodies of dead service members, yet, despite promises, they do not act to legislate for realistic benefits to enable our retired service personnel, and their dependents, to cope with the cost of living.

    • 30 years Army service and getting Age Pension supp says:

      07:59pm | 14/01/12

      The funds from the DFRDB was used to set up Medicare, so why should OUR Polies answer our questions.
      This problem has been around the block for a long time, its like pissing in the ocean, at first you can see the results but when it all settles down nothing changes.
      Start whinging directly to you local Polly, talk votes.
      Threaten their jobs directly and maybe, just maybe they will do something, but I will not hold my breath.
      And don’t get me started on DVA.

    • Ken M says:

      08:23pm | 14/01/12

      The DFRDB scheme was based on the recommendations of the Jess committee. The committee considered ‘that it is essential that retired pay should be adjusted automatically with increases in average weekly earnings. Unless the payment made to retired members is kept abreast of rising community standards its real value is quickly eroded’.

      To quote from the Matthews report – which the current government uses as its excuse to do nothing.

      ‘… it is well documented that the principal purpose of the CPI changed in 1998 … Until that time, the CPI was a measure of the purchasing power of wage and salary earner household incomes. Its most important use was as an input to the income adjustment process and and prices were, therefore, measured using an outlays or payments method.’

      Matthews goes on to explain that the change was made to ‘measure price inflation for the household sector through an acquisitions approach.’ There was a deliberate policy move to break the nexus between wages and CPI.

      ‘A CPI based on acquisitions covers payments for goods and services acquired whereas a measure based on outlays ‘also includes payments which are not directly related to the acquisition of specific goods and services but represent inescapable costs of acquisition or consumption’. The key difference in the approaches is that the CPI based on acquisitions does not measure mortgage interest and credit charges but include net expenditure on new dwellings (excluding land)’.

      The Jess committee recognised the difficulty that service members had purchasing a house when they were posted every two to three years. It recognised that this placed them in a position of financial disadvantage when compared to other Australians of same age. The DFRDB scheme was designed in part to address this issue. There will be many DFRDB retirees still paying mortgages.

      The designers of the DFRDB scheme meant it to maintain it real value in relation to rising community incomes. It was meant to support the service member transition to civilian life without additional disadvantage. Changes to the CPI have clearly eroded its value and governments of all persuasions have broken faith with the nations military servants.

    • Roger says:

      09:02pm | 14/01/12

      Tim, Jack.

      I respect your opinion.  I am assuming you have served this great county on active service. If not, shut your mouths

    • Pete L says:

      08:32am | 15/01/12

      @ St Micheal,
      Yes, as a young Australian, I did volunteer. That’s not what is at stake here. It is as obvious to most of the posts here that you live in a bubble, created by you, to boost your own ego day in day out. It is very obvious that you don’t have any loyalty to anyone or anything EXCEPT your own EGO and seeing your scriblings up in lights. You have distain for anyone who has served, so you probably were rejected for applying due yo your limited vocabularly and non-compassion to the country we call Australia. You obviously have a vindictive personality, need retraint when talking faace to fave to people, are possibly one of the “Green tree huggers”, who have never worked for a living, because you think that working is beneath your calling.
      I HOLD NO GUILT FEELINGS FOR MY COMMITTMENT TO MY COUNTRY, I only wish that some of the Politicians that are elected, actually performs adequately in the roles that we pay them for. No political party can be admonished for the work they have failed to do, even though promising the “world” during elections, yet delivering less than anything palletable during their term in office. All it seems each party does, is try to break down all of the policies that the previous government has put in place. Why can’t either party just agree that a policy is good for the people for a change and leave it alone. How about a ten year plan that all partries agree on and only amend it to better it not break it down because it doesn’t suit the left or the right or the centre left / right or some radical who wants to turn independent 5 minutes before a election. It is called continuity and that is what is lacking in all democratic governments around the world. Not just here in Australia.
      @St Micheal again, If you just want to puff your chest out and redicule all of those people possibly including your own relatives in your past, why don’t you create an advert, put your REAL NAME, ADDRESS, POST CODE AND PHONE NUMBER on it, post it on Google and other sites headlining your distrust in the general population and the decisions made by people who are loyal to Australia and await for their response, instead of hiding behind a ficticious name on a site that looks for justice from those who are ‘ELECTED’ by the populous to SERVE THIS NATION, yet whose underlying interest is the big $ only.

    • St. Michael says:

      12:57am | 16/01/12

      You first, sunshine.  With full details of service, regimental record, and independently verifiable details of any action seen in addition to your real name, address, post code, and phone number.

      Without that, you’re just another anonymous coward like myself.

      And learn to use less capitals.  Shouting’s for the parade field, not internet blogs.

    • Ken M says:

      10:45am | 15/01/12

      This issue should be of concern to all Australians who believe that governments and their elected representatives should be held accountable for the actions they take or fail to take.

      We all know that politicians break promises soon after they are elected – a recent example being the carbon tax but before then we had the matter of the ‘non-core’ promise. Nothing new about that.

      One thing that I have noted however is that governments generally announce changes that will affect people’s pockets before hand. Changes that hurt are rarely, if ever, enacted retrospectively – unless warning was given in order to allow people to prepare for the change.

      As explained above in my post @Ken M, 09:23 pm/4/01/12, the purpose of the CPI has changed. For recipients of retired pay through the DFRDB scheme this change has violated what is a long-standing practice – a long standing practice because to do anything else is patently unfair and a violation of natural justice.

      That this has been hoisted on military veterans makes the matter even more unjust, for these workers, more than anyone else, are dependent on the good will of the government of the day to protect their conditions of employment – no unions, no right-to-strike, no right to speak out on government policy, and no right to resign at will.

      It is also a matter that goes to the very heart of the relationship between today’s government and our current generation of military servants - and, for that matter, future generations. If governments - which are simply the people’s elected representatives - fail to honor the committments made of earlier governments to the Nation’s soldiers, sailors and air men and women, those who serve today have no guarantee that future governments will honor committments made to them.

      All Australians should make it clear to those that represent them that they have a clear expectation that their elected representatives will act fairly and that they will be held accountable if they do not.

    • Petr says:

      05:50pm | 15/01/12

      Herein lies the problem…politicians, just as the military, unquestioningly do their masters wishes.

      Gillard’s first loyalty is to the Fabian Society not the Australian people.

      The majority of Australians are ignorant as to the real workings of government: we supposedly get to ‘democratically’ vote a person into office who has already been vetted by the masters of the parties - purely a pea and thimble trick.

      Holding representatives ‘accountable’ through the ballot box, is also a
      puerile swindle, which is why so many politicians are ex-lawyers and such, who can lie with a straight face or a forked tongue as used to be said.
      Gillard is a prime example of this: Edward the VII’s Fabian Society along with Betty Windsor’s Privy Council, ensures that nothing that threatens our head of state, Betty, is passed by parliament.

      So in the scheme of things, the reason for the difference in pension
      measures, indeed the pittance paid to all pensioners, and the lack of an avenue for redress to what it could potentially be, is implemented at the highest level.
      Our head of state, is not and never has been, a ‘ceremonial’ position.
      As evidenced by recent awards of MBE’s, QEII maintains the Empire of
      ceremony; if you can wrap your head around that.

      It is obvious through history, with such as the Brisbane Line or Curtin’s
      arguing with Churchill for the return of troops to the defense of Australia, that anyone below royalty, can be sacrificed at will and whim to maintain the pomp and circumstance and continuance of a financially wasteful, morally corrupt monarchist tradition.

      Why is it that included in the CPI ‘basket’ is a plasma TV?

      I admire Peter Criss, and others, standing up for the rights of the troops and wish you all every success but, at the next election a vote for the same old, same old, will change nothing, as you already know from what I’ve read of the posts.
      You just have to remember what happened to the survivors of the Voyager catastrophe to see how long a snowball can survive in Hell and how much successive governments care for humanitarian values.

      There is an alternative, read the non-negotiable polices of the establishment hated http://www.cecaust.com.au/

      Before any of you start bleating like sheep think about the following: You cannot have a democratic monarchy, it is an oxymoron.

    • Mat says:

      11:42am | 15/01/12

      To Tim and Jack obviously you are subject matter experts on the ADF or at least have had contact with people that are probably about the only associates you have. How many times have you been called out XMAS day for search and rescue, how many Bali bombing victims did you deal with and have you sat in a Hercules trying to save lives that are the victims of war, thought not. You assertion that the bulk of the ADF does nothing displays your ignorance to a changing world. Sadly my family saw me for a whole of two months last year whilst I was according to you busy doing nothing overseas in war zones etc. The ADF just want’s want’s CPI like everyone else gets nothing more. I’d love to see you do my job for a day and see what you would feel like then. To tarnish people that are there on call every day of every year to jobs you couldn’t stomach is a reflection of your ignorance not our efforts.

    • Casey says:

      05:42pm | 15/01/12

      I didn’t read all the comments here but all those who disagree with soldiers getting a fare go. Probably haven’t even considered serving there country and will be the first to ask where the army is when there family is in danger. And if you believe that Australia is safe from invasion in today’s society need to pull your head out your a&ss; too. A soldier is a rifleman first, paper pusher 2nd( they do there job when it’s needed). I rather have a happy soldier defender this country that looks after them, then a disgruntled soldier who is 2nd guessing what he is fighting for it.

    • Ian Roy says:

      06:40pm | 15/01/12

      Good article Pete Criss, keep up the pressure.  Unfortunately our local and federal polies don’t care and they just ignore our plea of a fair go.  Wonder how many have read these comments.

    • Air Commodore Garry Bates (Retired) says:

      07:18pm | 15/01/12

      This issue is about the Australian Government, as advised by senior bureaucrats and Defence Leadership, meeting its obligation to the Defence Force members by ensuring the principles of Superannuation for the ADF are met in full and in perpetuity. They are failing this obligation and have done so for decades.
      I recall a paper by the then just retired Deputy Chief of the Air Staff , AVM Hurdich, titled “The DFRB Scheme is still a Racket” way back in 1971. That’s how long this shameful ongoing charade of ADF Super has festered.
      AVM Criss (Retired) has recently spoken out forcefully because his current serving peers will not, or cannot, under a system of controlled release of information to the public by the Government of the day.
      Yes, the financial consequences of these inactions on the retired ‘troops’ is deplorable, but the issue is not about them (us) or their (our) service to the Nation, but the fact that the Government cannot be held accountable for failing to correctly administer ADF superannuation. Yes, some public servants are similarly affected and no, the argument is not that active service demands higher recognition.
      Governments have repeatedly and blatantly used economic circumstances to justify their inability to meet financial obligations.  If the Government cannot be trusted to fulfil its elected duty to the ADF, then I suggets that such matters of service personnel welfare and superannuation should be removed from the mandate of Government and placed under an independant Tribunal linked directly to the Future Fund, which incidently, was establised to fund the future retirement welfare of our public servants.

    • Petr says:

      08:37pm | 15/01/12

      The Future Fund is no answer to anyone’s problems.
      Set up by Peter Costello when treasurer and now sitting on its Board, the Fund is one of the shonkyest things to exist; it IS NOT answerable to parliament making it a law unto itself!

      Costello also sits on the board of a private company registered in the tax haven of the Cayman Islands…need more be said?
      It is not all that much different to ex-PM Keating being the Australasian Chairman of Lazards who broker the privatization of public assets.

      Mussolini defined Fascism as the total privatization of ALL public goods and services.

      Read my reply to Ken M says: 11:45am | 15/01/12 if you’re prepared to look at the full picture of why it is so.

    • Jan Pukallus says:

      08:24pm | 15/01/12

      George Washington also accepted his Aide de Camp’s (Alexander Hamilton) idea of creating a national credit system, since all the states were bankrupt following the war of Independance. A new national credit system meant that the federal government could absorb the debt of the states and put the country to work building national infrastructure to serve a productive economy of family farms and manufacturing - the very enemy the British and their East India Company’s free-trade and slave labour system of usery dispised. If we are going to get out of the current global financial crisis, Washington, Hamilton, Lincoln and FDR’s policies must be revived! Remove British puppet Obama (using sect 4 of the 25th amendment), pass the Glass-Steagall Act (to stop the $29 trillion in bank bailouts so far, seperate financial speculation from genuine productive commerce that serves the general welfare of the people) and adopt a new global credit system (not a monetary system). The ‘Old’ commonwealth bank was a govenment credit system which worked, before privatisation, to build our national infrastructure of dams, railways, hospitals, Snowy scheme etc. Get rid of the Crown’s genocidal green agenda (Empires need minimal populations and dumb ones at that) and reindustrialise the world economy. A world of sovereign nation states! Join Russia and China’s war avoidance policy to develop and colonise the galaxy using high-tech physical economic science-driver programs, like Kennedy’s space program did to build peace through economic developmet. This way we build a future for mankind and it has the immediate technological benefits in applications of new discoveries here on earth. Otherwise we’ll be fighting over the crumbs of a dying empire, were nothing works; because it’s not supposed to…

    • tom says:

      08:56pm | 15/01/12

      The Government could save some money by cutting some of the ‘top brass’ in the Department of Defence there is over 300 uniformed ‘Star Officers’ (Generals) in uniform in the ADF. If you include Public Service equivalents the number is roughly double. This is a ridiculous amount of senior staff and all these people need to be briefed constantly which drains resources. Many of these individuals do a fine job but it is a bit of a boys club. The Government could slash the numbers significantly within the Department of Defence then move to other Departments and get rid of many of these ‘bureaucrats’. This would free up a lot of money to assist fund the superannuation schemes of retired diggers. God knows that that these Generals have plenty of cash to fund their retirement.

    • BB says:

      07:19am | 16/01/12

      Some of the comments are way off the mark re service life. Those of us who have done our twenty or more years fully understand how the pollies have ,and do use the millitery to massage their own ego’s then sweep us into the “to hard tray” when we ask for a fair deal.

    • doogsie says:

      01:00pm | 16/01/12

      Is there any reason why all DFRDB members could not launch a Class Action Law Suit against the Commonwealth regarding this issue? Peter Criss, have you looked at this, have you approached any of the major Law Firms to discuss a possible class action re the DFRDB indexation issue? If the Commonwealth is breaching its contract with DFRDB serving and ex serving members and considering this indexation was guaranteed at the time of enlistment, then surely the Commonwealth must surely be in breach of its employer contract agreement? I’m sure the majority if not all of the DFRDB members would join any class action that might be initiated in the future.

    • Ray says:

      01:33pm | 16/01/12

      doogsie, within the ADSO Fair Go Campaign (and Peter is a part of this), all options are on the table. We are actively exploring this and other avenues. If you would like to find out more about the campaign, take a look at http://www.standto.org

    • Sharp end says:

      02:34pm | 16/01/12

      Why is it that everyone thinks we get subsidised piss and meals. We get subsidised housing because defence moves us every three years. We pay exactly the same for food and piss as everyone else does. As for the small amount of people at russell or other HQ’s around Australia, they might have stood on a wall during younger days or as a junior rank, but getting to the wall becomes harder as you progress through the ranks. As a serving member of 13 years, I hear all the whinging and see first hand how we get treated by slyvilians and politicians and it disgusts me. I am currently deployed, I wont see my wife and 3 kids for another 5 months and will not get an RDO/sleepin/or even join my mates at the pub for a beer on a friday arvo but this isthe life I CHOSE! I wasnt drafted and my eyes were wide open, What pisses us off is when we know we get certain benefits and the politicians vote to strip them away to save money on the defence budget. All this since labor took power, who has since theen given themselves numerous payrises. So before you complain about the military how about you civies go and march on parliamment house, we cant as its called mutiny!

    • John C says:

      03:48pm | 16/01/12

      could not agree more. Our troops have been getting the wrong end of the stick for far too long and it is time we did something positive about this.

    • Mick Dunn (WGCDR Retd) says:

      04:13pm | 16/01/12

      Keep up the good work, Peter
      Apart from the Fair Indexation aspect of the DFRDB Bill, there are other inequities.
      1. Members who chose not to commute do not even get full CPI indexation on their Retirement Pay. This happens because their RP increases are based on an animal called their ‘notional pay’ which is the rate of RP they would be enjoying IF THEY HAD COMMUTED. As this rate would be less than full RP, they get LESS THAN THE CPI.
      2. Spouses are also dudded by notional pay because their entitlement is based on the rate of RP their partners would have been receiving if they had not commuted. Looks as if they get full increases on initially uncommuted RP, doesn’t it? BUT NO: because their partners’ uncommuted RP is actually based on initial uncommuted value plus increases based on notional pay, ie increases of less than CPI.

      The fact is, no-one on the DFRDB gets an uncommuted pension adjusted for full CPI.

      Notional Pay does not appear in the DFRB Act. It is a device designed by civilian bureaucrats to attract members into commutation, robbing them of their full rate of RP if they survived beyond the then life expectancy (which was likely) and reducing the government’s ongoing pay increase liability. This disgraceful artifice has been the focus of Jim Treadwell’s campaign for justice. He also points out that current serving members on DFRDB will be screwed over by the application of outdated Life Expectancy tables when they commute.

    • Bill Arden says:

      10:19am | 31/01/12

      “Mick Dunn (WGCDR Retd) said: 05:13pm 16/01/12”
      An excellent summary Mick, and succinctly put. Even though it is a bit off topic it does need airing because it puts CPI indexation of DFRDB in the correct perspective.

      This may be a bit ‘technical’ for most who are not familiar with the DFRDB Act 1973 but read Part XA of that act (which introduced automatic indexation by CPI in 1976-77) and see for yourself just how the bureaucrats aimed to confuse – or obfuscate, the truth. The outrageous drafting was even mentioned in the Parliament of the day.

    • Victor H. says:

      06:30pm | 16/01/12

      I think Peter is doing a great job and I support his endeavour.
      And as for the pencil pushers coment;  someone has to do the paperwork to keep the government happy.  Who else would buy the bullets.  I think all the service men and women of this country deserve a better pension scheme.  I served 20 years and my DFRB pension has not even doubled in the 22 years that I have been out of the Service.

    • Ray says:

      09:06pm | 16/01/12

      Wearestardust (5.07pm 13/01/12), we will just have to agree to disagree about the usefulness of today’s inflation CPI formula as a technical Vs real measure of the cost of living. For those who are actually living with CPI indexed pensions, they see the effects of an inadequate CPI week in and week out as rising bills continue to roll in. For them, it is harsh reality, not just an academic debate.

      We will also have to disagree about there being no change to conditions of service. The CPI of the 70s is a markedly different animal to the CPI today in terms of its makeup - all to the detriment of those who rely on the index to maintain real purchasing power. Regardless of the justification for the changes, it does not excuse the fact that the CPI today is demonstrably inadequate for the purpose of indexing military retirement pay as envisaged by the legislators in the mid 1970s.

      My final observation is that whilst you are perfectly entitled to cling to your opinion (as I’m sure you will), it is not an opinion shared by at least 6 Senate Inquires, and the 2007 Independent Review of Military Superannuation (the Podger Review), all of which heard evidence from a wide range of sources, including experts from the ABS, and all of which recognised the inadequacy of the current CPI to maintain purchasing power, and all of which recommended that a better methodology be adopted, in line with that of age pensioners.

      Even the infamous Matthews Review (which was largely flawed through inadequate TOR) said that if a more robust cost of living index was developed, then it should be adopted. This is an implicit recognition that the CPI is inadequate.

      Interestingly, just after the Matthews Report was released, the Government announced a new pensioner cost of living index which is now factored into age pension adjustments. And did the Government include this index in determination of cost of living adjustments for military superannuation pensions? I’m guessing you know the answer to that one!

    • Paul says:

      04:16pm | 17/01/12

      Thank you Peter for your insightful article. Those of us who have served and still serve our country and those who support us agree with you wholeheartedly. It is really a shame that we have people in Australia like St Michael and his ilk who get pleasure (?) out of denigrating the hundreds of thousands of true blue Aussies. These other types are so much trash and I suggest that we should just ignore and not comment on their inane comments.
      Keep up the good work Peter: true blue Australians are behind you all the way.

    • Roberto says:

      08:02pm | 17/01/12

      Like many of us, I would like to meet the cowardly St Michael on a dark and stormy night. I wonder if he or she (proabably a sheila in disguise) would be up to the job!

    • St. Michael says:

      05:51pm | 19/01/12

      Awwww.  Call me a coward, and then pronounce you’d like to ambush me on a dark night when there’s no police around to stop you breaking the law?

      What a brave soldier boy you are.

    • Norm says:

      04:36pm | 17/01/12

      Great article.  Still the same old story - whilst one is in the service the service person is a politicians best friend as they bask in the glory of deeds and great work well done within Australia and overseas on their orders but as soon as the serviceman/woman becomes ex-service they do not want to recognise them and their continuing battle to survive on the ever reducing superannuation payments.

    • Paul says:

      05:17pm | 17/01/12

      Good comment Norm. If only these ingrates like St Micheal could get into our collective minds and experience what we have achieved. I am sure they would sing a different tune.
      Keep the comments coming chaps and chapettes!!

    • St. Michael says:

      05:49pm | 19/01/12

      Oh, I’m grateful, Paul.  But at the same time, you’re a volunteer, and just because you did a job for which you got paid does not qualify you for sainthood.  Which is really what most of the ADF wants for itself, because it’s difficult to criticise saints even when they’re doing something wrong.

    • John Wilson says:

      08:58am | 18/01/12

      It would appear that the polititions are more than happy to accept their gratuitous hand out but have no thought for those of us who served 20 plus years in the defence of our country and in coalition with our allies.
      Unfortunately the last government also failed to correct the anomaly, however if elected next time they may see it in a different light.

    • Leone says:

      09:10am | 18/01/12

      The anomaly placing ex military DFRDB pensioners at the bottom of the heap with an increasing gap between their pension and that of Australians who were not asked to die for their country is shameful. Even more so when the ones who ask them to put their life on the line, our politicians, continue to accept increases in salary. It is no wonder that there have been reports of Defence having to look for recruits from overseas.

    • Bert Hoebee says:

      03:54pm | 18/01/12

      I am gald to see so many contributors agree with the very simple, but clear and important message that Peter Criss is giving:  It is High Time for Australia (through its elected representatives) to do the Right Thing by its veterans, current and future ones.

      The point, however, that many contributors miss is that fair indexaction of their retiremenement pay (Superannuation pension) is a condition of service, under which our Defrence Force personnel sign up.  They meet faithfully their obligation to serve the country (even to the point of being killed in action), but the Government does not match that by meeting its obligation as their employer.

    • St. Michael says:

      02:26pm | 20/01/12

      There is no “obligation” to serve one’s country.  You have an “obligation” to do so if conscription is in effect and you are selected for that service.  “Obligation” to serve one’s country is inconsistent with having a “volunteer” army.

      Rather, what you have is a contract of employment with the government.  In that you deserve no more rights or preferential treatment than any other Australian citizen.  Like any other Australian citizen employed by the government, if you believe and can establish on a legal basis that the government has reneged on a condition of your contract of employment, sue them for it and recover the underpayment.  Or get used to being part of the overall community which has had many governments renege on many promises made to it over decades.

    • Weif says:

      04:42pm | 20/01/12

      St. Michael at 3:26. I think Bert Hoebee might be right. The citizenship.gov.au website says that it is still the responsibility of citizens (obligation in old folks language) to “defend Australia should the need arise”.

      Maybe the fact that some people volunteer to take up that responsibility places an obligation on those who do not. Resorting to the legalities of employment contracting seems a bit petty, even though it is the way the world works now.

    • Paul says:

      04:26pm | 20/01/12

      I recommend that we don’t give the oxygen thief (St Michael) any more ammo by responding to his comments. As Bert says we need to get back to Peter Criss’ original message and that is, it is time for our elected representatives to do the right thing by its veterans, current and future ones. We aren’t asking for anything special - just equality through fair indexation for our pensions as per our original contract. That’s it - nothing more - no knighthoods, sainthoods or places in heaven. The government needs to meet its obligation as our employer we we met ours.

    • PhilD says:

      01:46pm | 21/01/12

      Why is it that politicians claim the DFRDB scheme is very generous?
      Why is it that politicians lack the will to change the DFRDB scheme but are happy over the years to whittle away the effectiveness of the CPI knowing that it is a key component of the DFRDB scheme?
      Why is it that politicians were happy to not apply the CPI increase to pensions one year knowing that it was a key component of the DFRDB scheme?
      If the DFRDB provisions are supposedly locked in to determinations made in 1972 then why shouldn’t the CPI that applies to the DFRDB be locked in also?
      Why is it that politicians say they support improving the DFRDB scheme when its our turn to vote, but when it comes to their turn to vote on the issue they vote against it?
      1 Sam 30:34 Share and share alike.

    • Vince says:

      11:17am | 25/01/12

      I think their needs to be a distinction made between members who see active duty and those who don’t. My father served in Borneo, Malaya & Vietnam, a 30+ year member of the ADF, the way he has been treated is disgusting.

    • PhilD says:

      10:57pm | 30/01/12

      Distinctions are already made between members who see active dutiy and those who don’t. Those that see active duty get allowances, campaign medals, war service loans, pensions, and various DVA assistance. This thread is about compulsory DFRDB and the way it has been despicably neglected by successive governments.
      You obviously didn’t read 1 Sam 30:34. Once you push for distinctions where do you stop? Cooks, communicators, technicians and shiny bums were not in as much danger as tunnel rats.

    • PhilD says:

      07:34pm | 31/01/12

      Oops my bad, that verse should be 1 Samuel 30:24.
      Apologies to anyone who actually looked for this ground breaking ordinance.

    • Jim Buchanan says:

      12:36pm | 02/02/12

      To the Tims and Macks of the world.
      You are entitled to your opinion even if it is based on your own self interest and the basic premise that you can deny anyone an entitlement if you base the denial on the possibility that someone might, deviously, make a claim when not entitled to it: your self interest is, of course, that if you manage to avoid paying defence personnel a fair superannuation/pension, there will be more money in the public purse for your future benefit. God forbid you are, or ever become politicians.

      And here is an example for you to think about when you make rash assumptions that defence retirees are reasonably remunerated for the service they gave to their country and to people like yourselvers:
      I volunteered for miltary service in 1962, shortly before the ‘Confrontasi’ era and trained as a SAR and anti-submarine pilot. I am proud of the fact I saved a fair number of lives over the years and even gained a DFC for life-saving during Vietnam service. Unfortunately, I spent a fair bit of time in the U-Minh forest - notorious for Viet Cong and North Vietnamese troop activity as well as a superabundance of Agent Orange - and am in the late stages of metastisized cancer. This happy quinella, (war caused terminal disease/injury and a ‘gallantry’ award) entitles me to a Decoration Allowance. In the middle of the Second World War this was paid at a quarter of a Bristish private’s salary. Sounds great doesn’t it? You will be pleased to know that in 2012 the allowance allows me an extra cup of good quality coffee once a month. IT IS PAID AT THE RATE OF FIFTEEN CENTS A DAY! That’s no typing error but a good example of how the government tries to avoid making any payment it is not, absolutely, forced to pay.

    • NiKO..... says:

      04:25pm | 23/02/12

      “Walk a mile in them Boots”........writes - NiKO…..
      To the all those who serve this great country do so with pride and understand
      part the sacrifes and full commitment to duty and our mates. Let the Government of today and those in the future understand that we give GOOD Service.  However as a consequence Receive in turn “B.A.D” Service for our legacy.  Betrayal - Abandoned - Dishonoured.
      However from the veiws here present it is evident that a more fairer and transparent Retirement / Compensation / Pension Legisation to all that serve is sometimes more often than most grossly let down.
      For those unfortunet to feel the sting and taste the salt from those tears so do there families.
      Not only those personell who suffer from injury / illness / or diseases , but more importantly give a thought for many thousands of unlisted casualities that bare the consequence of there service - the many spouses / partners / children that suffer the transgeneration effects of there legacy
      If the politicans and those who adjust policy can’t learn from history it will keep on repeating..

    • Derek Wilkinson ex WOFFCOMMS says:

      01:24pm | 05/04/12

      Sadly, quite a few of comments in this forum, are denigrating to serving and retired servicemen and women. For you denigrators, it should be born in mind that as per the title “Defence Force”, the main purpose is exactly that - DEFENCE FORCE.. Not every military member is able to serve in a war zone.  For every member deployed, there are many who toil away in the background, in support of our warriors.
      On enlistment, all personnel sign a blank cheque that makes them eligible for service wherever they may be required.  The blank cheque also includes the knowledge that wounds and (God forbid) death are acceptable risks involved.
      My Grandfather and Father were killed during service in WW1 and WW11 respectively, but this did not deter me from honourably serving my country, both at home and overseas, with pride and a great deal of satisfaction.
      It is a shame that we must now fight another battle at home, in an effort to obtain a fair deal on the superannuation front.
      Good luck and thanks to all involved

 

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