Smoking inside will be banned in enclosed public spaces in China as of May 1 this year.

Got a light? Not for long.Photo: AFP.

So that leaves at least 300 million people just five weeks to break the habit of a lifetime.

Given that China is the world’s largest producer of cigarettes and that one in three smokers worldwide are Chinese, this is a social undertaking of epic proportions.

Here at home federal Health Minister Nicola Roxon has also recently committed to an anti-smoking campaign that aims to cut our national smoking rate by 10 per cent in six years - starting with our Indigenous and Torres Strait Islander population.

Why? Because 50 per cent of that population are smokers and one in five die from smoking related diseases every year.

So who will be more successful? You’d have to say Roxon.

Putting aside the obvious advantage of population size – Roxon’s strategy is all about specific community targets whereas China’s one-size-fits-all approach does not offer a long-term solution.

First, some background.

Just this week the Roxon Government announced a further commitment to their anti-smoking policy with a $4 million advertising campaign.

Described as “intentionally personal”, the advertisement features an Indigenous woman talking directly to camera about the friends and family she has lost to the effects of smoking.

While it’s far too early to call the results, the policy has targeted what’s at the heart of the decision to smoke – the individual.

The government is saying, “This is why you shouldn’t smoke and these are the ways we can help you.”

Contrast this with China, where they are simply saying “don’t smoke inside enclosed public places.”

To spur their non-smoking along, the Chinese government has forbidden vending machines, demanded the display of prominent no-smoking signs and designated outdoor smoking zones that do not affect pedestrian traffic.

Okay, but with Chinese cigarettes still cheaper than anywhere else in the world, will these pretty basic precautions be enough to secure long-term change?

With a population this large, it’s hard to be convinced.

There is no question that the health benefits will be immeasurable – 1.5 million Chinese die of smoking related causes ever year.

Increased life expectancy is another goal; the government aims to see a national jump from 73.5 years to 74.5 years in five years time.

But health experts within China, like Yang Gonghuan, the deputy director of Chinese Centre for Disease Control and Prevention, are already calling for more aggressive measures.

To start with, they’d like to see the ban immediately extended to bars and restaurants and effective strategies for actually enforcing it.

Back home, Tom Calma, the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Social Justice Commissioner, said the program has been successful because it leaves the onus to quit on smokers themselves:

“Punitive-type messages are not going to work…people want something they can relate to,” he said on Monday.

But even that may not be enough. 

The Republic of Ireland was the first country in the world to impose an indoor ban on their “national hobby” back in 2004.

Despite huge public outcry at the time of implementation, yesterday marked the eighth anniversary of their indoor ban.

Only problem is, it hasn’t worked. The rate of smoking in the Republic has steadily increased.

A 2009 study documented a five per cent rise in the population’s smoking habits over two years, especially among men, leaving exasperated experts calling for “higher prices of cigarettes” and better treatment of “tobacco-dependence”.

So what does that tell us? Well, mostly, what we already know. Quitting smoking is tough going and being banned from doing it inside “certain” public places is the “soft” approach.

It might make China’s shopping malls a more pleasant place to spend a few hours but millions of Chinese will still be puffing away on cigarettes in the carpark outside.

105 comments

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    • acotrel says:

      05:40am | 30/03/11

      Of course the Chinese smoking ban will work!  How can anyone smoke if their head’s been cut off?

    • michael j says:

      10:37am | 30/03/11

      The Chinese are not brutal barbarians,they shoot you,at worst run you over with a tank,,

    • JimW says:

      06:17am | 30/03/11

      Although smoking is definitely an addiction, there are social factors that have a strong influence.
      I was a smoker when I worked in a blue-collar, manual labour job. I tried to quit a couple of times but couldn’t make it stick. When I moved on to a white-collar position, quitting became much easier for two reasons - I had to make time to leave my desk, go down the elevator and out to the smoking area before I could light up, and many of my new coworkers regarded smoking as a disgusting habit and gave me a hard time about it. So within a few months I was able to give it up.
      Several years later I moved to China with work. Back in an environment where smoking was a major factor in social engagement - cigarettes are handed out at conferences, weddings and so on as part of the celebration and refusal is regarded as a bit rude - I only held out for just over a year before getting back on the smokes.
      Back to Australia a couple of years ago and I gave up cold turkey upon boarding the aircraft in Beijing. A challenge, but easy enough in an environment where cigarettes are extremely expensive and socially unpopular.
      So from my experience, banning smoking indoors in China is a good idea and as long as it’s just the first step in a long campaign of several measures, it will at least get the ball rolling. However, if the Beijing restaurant smoking ban for the Olympics is anything to go by (where a handful of major tourist restaurant owners obeyed in their own interest and all the rest just ignored it), it’ll be hard to enforce. If Australia’s new advertising campaign can start to make smoking socially unacceptable among indigenous communities, then that will be a good outcome and hopefully improve life expectancy and save our Aboriginal people, many of whom are not well off, from wasting huge wads of money on cigarettes.

    • ZSRenn says:

      03:40pm | 30/03/11

      @ Iansand funny you should ask that question Yes I have and it was me. I had left my passport in my apartment and travelled to Guangzhou and when we went to book in. Bugga! No Passport!

      After the ear bashing from the wife a couple of dudes did come out from a closed room and asked us what the problem was. I was told to go for a walk and call back in about 15 minutes.

      My wife would ring me with the room number.

      I always wondered after that what would happen if I turned up at a Sydney hotel with No passport Drivers License or Credit card whether I would get a room.

      Do you have any friends who might be able to answer that question? 

      It may help you also if you are travelling to China with APEC members to perhaps learn a bit more language than ‘Ni Hao” perhaps Kev could teach you. Then the scary Chinese people would probably not be so scary.

    • ZSRenn says:

      04:05pm | 30/03/11

      Oh Bugga!

      I hate it when I do that.

      This reply was to iansand in the thread below

    • iansand says:

      05:40pm | 30/03/11

      I know that I have stayed in hotels in the UK, Canada and the USA without producing a passport.  France, last time (a few years ago), I had to produce one, which annoyed me.  Same with Italy.  I have assisted with check ins for Chinese colleagues when they come to Australia and they have not been asked for passports, nor have they been required to prove that they have the right to be in the country.

      It was not my APEC card.  Fortunately for me, in China, I am usually accompanied by interpreters for the hotel check in.  But the front desk staff speak quite good English.  The blokes in the back room don’t necessarily.  I don’t think they actually work for the hotel, although that is a guess.

      I do not find Chinese people at all scary.  What makes you think that?  As soon as they discover that I like their country, and even know something of its history, we get on like a house on fire.

    • ZSRenn says:

      06:49pm | 30/03/11

      That’s the difference between my knowledge of China Ian and mine

      I speak Chinese and you hang out with all the Waiguo ren and get someone else to do your bidding.

      How can you claim to have knowledge of China from the bar of a 5 star hotel?

      A heads up because when you ask an interpreter to tell someone something. The interpreter will tell them what they think they need to hear not what you told them to say.
      Then they will give you the answer they think you want to hear.

      Very common Chinese habit and one you don’t pick up until you learn to speak.

    • iansand says:

      07:33pm | 30/03/11

      How do you say non sequitur in Mandarin?

    • ZSRenn says:

      02:29am | 31/03/11

      @ iansand

      ????.

      I hope this helps.

    • Mr Pod says:

      06:35am | 30/03/11

      Why remove one of the only freedoms the Chinese have, what a cruel regime

    • ZSRenn says:

      07:22am | 30/03/11

      Wake up to yourself!

      Before you comment on China you should jump on a plane and go and visit. There are about 20 leave everyday.

      One of the only freedoms. lol

      Chinese have more personal freedom than you would be able to deal with. After living in a Nanny state it takes some getting used too.

    • PD says:

      08:12am | 30/03/11

      ZSRenn:

      Would you be able to comment on this site from China? Would you be able to go on the internet and get news and political opinion from anywhere in the world, as you can in Australia?

      Would you be able to move around anywhere in China without having to show ID and documentation to officials? Would you be able to live where you want and have a family of any size you want, without suffering disadvantage through government policy?

      Given the internet censorship and other controls imposed by the authoritarian Chinese regime, I’d be surprised.

    • Vel says:

      08:44am | 30/03/11

      @ZSRenn What freedoms do the Chinese have?  Protest against the government and it’s off to labour camp for you!

    • Joan says:

      08:50am | 30/03/11

      ZSRenn…. ignorance abounds re modern China…. the picture selected here tells it all…. they must have looked hard to find that one You bet the 875,000 Chinese millionaires, 190 billionaires, as they fly around in their private aeroplanes. run around in their limousines, relax in their luxury pads,  smoking their favourite Chunghwa cigarettes are more likely to be dressed in Armani, and sporting Cartier.  The picture does not reflect modern day Chinese smoker…. be they poor or rich.

    • ZSRenn says:

      10:22am | 30/03/11

      @PD Yes and I can comment and often do! No VPN required.
      You can move around easily. I have never once been asked for ID nor has my Chinese wife accept to register in a hotel. If you are caught without ID it is a $10AU fine but as I said I have never been asked as it is a bit like carrying your drivers license. 

      Please don’t make me write about the one child policy again. I have said before it is only employees of the government who fully face this restriction as part of their terms of employment.

      If it is wrong to restrict porn on the internet then China is guilty.
      If it is wrong to restrict Facebook and twitter because two riots organized using these sites was responsible for the deaths of thousands, at the rioters hands not the police, then China is guilty. They are also widely used however by the masses as VPN’s are everywhere.

      @ Vel to list the personal freedoms the Chinese have which we ourselves do not is an article itself and I am keeping that one for the time someone says to me they will give me money to write it. Or maybe go on the public speaking circuit with it.

      We as Australians have given away a lot of our freedoms to the PC police. We have been forced to accept a lot to live in our Nanny state. When you spend time in China you realize just how many and to readjust to those personal freedoms is sometimes very difficult. You make mistakes and feel like a child that is learning again how to behave

    • PD says:

      12:31pm | 30/03/11

      ZSRenn, you’re either a fool or a liar.

      There is little freedom of expression in China. The idea that that Chinese people must be banned from social network sites for their own protection is evil.

      The reality is that anti-subversion laws are used to harshly suppress dissent and imprison ‘offenders’ for lengthy periods.

      There is greatly restricted freedom of movement especially for rural dwellers, imposed by a system of household registration.

      The one child policy applies to almost two thirds of the Chinese people. It might actually be a necessary and beneficial thing, but it sure ain’t freedom.

      There is no individual right to property ownership as we know it in countries like Australia.

      Spare us your propaganda. It doesn’t work, here.

    • lukew says:

      01:03pm | 30/03/11

      ZSRenn and Joan are right, sadly, about China and our freedom.  Not only have we given away our freedom, we are clamouring to give away more and we are doing it with our eyes shut.

    • Richard says:

      01:27pm | 30/03/11

      After spending considerable time in China myself, I have observed first-hand how right ZSRenn is and what pathetic sheeple Australians have become.

      Imagine submitting to a government law that you MUST wear a stupid bit of foam on your head if you dare to take you push-bike for a little ride. Bicycle helmet’s directly cause the deaths of hundreds of people per year, through torsion injuries and strangulation, yet here in Australia we’ve happily handed away our right to even decide what we can wear on our head when riding a bike.

      That would never happen in China, the Chinese are too sensible: they don’t take shit from nobody, not even the authorities.

    • iansand says:

      02:17pm | 30/03/11

      ZSRenn - Have you ever seen what happens if you check into a hotel in China without a visa in your passport?  I have travelled with a person who has an APEC card, so no visa.  Every time we have checked in to a hotel a couple of blokes, who are not in hotel uniforms, emerge from a back room and start asking some very peremptory questions.  Not polite at all.  If you think your travels in China are not monitored you are naive.

      Richard - It is good to see what freedoms you value.

    • ZSRenn says:

      02:49pm | 30/03/11

      @PD I own two units in China My wife owns another. No personal ownership rights yeh sure.

      If putting a men in Jail after a trial for organizing a riot that killed scores of people and did millions of damage to the areas is anti-subversion then so be it but in Australia I believe we call it terrorism.

      When in China I work in the south I work with Hunan Xingjian, Tibetan, Sichuan and Yunnan co-workers.  Also at the Lunar New Year celebrations they move 2,000,000 people around the country everyday so migrant workers can be home with their families most from rural areas. 

      Therefore I am having trouble believing that there are restrictions on travel. A picture speaks a million words. So have a look at this one from the UK Telegraph

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/picturegalleries/7197216/Chinese-lunar-new-year-millions-of-migrant-workers-at-railway-stations-to-head-home-for-the-holidays.html

      Then the billions of dollars spent on the new railway system that no one is going to use if your theory holds true.

      http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/24341/?a=f

      I have already spoken many times about the workings of the one child policy and here is a link to more info about how it works.

      http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/playing-god-we-already-are/

      I know where the propaganda is coming from and reading your posts it’s not from China but a little closer to home and it seems you are listening.

    • PD says:

      09:08pm | 30/03/11

      Very selective with facts ZSR. I thought you were either a fool or a liar but I forgot you could be both. Sure, China is a beacon of democracy compared to repressive Australia where people have no freedoms. Keep up the propaganda. Seems you need it to keep convincing yourself.

    • Tracker says:

      11:33pm | 30/03/11

      @ZSRenn, ta men bu ming bai Zhong Guo. Let them think they have more personal freedom than China, last thing I want is a bunch of loud mouthed obnoxious foreigners pretending to be highly educated spoiling my month or two of each year relaxing in China. As for this smoking law…. hehehe, China brings out laws from time to time just to keep people who believe it happy.

    • ZSRenn says:

      02:22am | 31/03/11

      @ Mike J Did you seriously just link me to Wikipedia. Enough said!

      @ PD you asked me some questions I answered them I never once mentioned China’s Government. If you look at my other posts in The Punch you will see I am a fairly right wing voter.

      I wonder though do you have any idea at all how China’s Government actually works?
      How many parties are involved?
      When Hu Jintao has to step down?
      Do you understand how difficult it is keeping 53 ethnic groups from ripping each other apart?
      The problem China faces having 6 languages within nearly every 100km square radius?
      What a five year plan is?
      The poverty China still has to deal with?
      The process it just went through to install for the first time in its 5000 year history an aged pension which removed many elderly beggars from the street.

      I am not saying it is correct but at least before you waive it away know the facts about what China’s government needs to achieve and the problems it faces before you dismiss it. If China had our system only the Han people (Majority) would get a say in the government.

      Their system at least gives a voice to the other 52 minorities. 

      What gets me is the fear runs so deep that by trying to enlighten people to what are the facts about China I have my character and political allegiances bought under attack.

      The propaganda regarding China is so well engrained that Australians have this holier than thou attitude towards it and have closed their minds to the changes that have occurred and continue to occur in China since it was formed.

    • mike j says:

      06:14pm | 31/03/11

      ZSRenn, did you just seriously imply that everything on Wikipedia is, by definition, wrong? Enough said.

    • iansand says:

      06:30pm | 31/03/11

      Tracker - I don’t hate China.  The place fascinates me.  Although, if I had your job (I thought progress had eliminated it), I would be supremely pissed off.

    • ZSRenn says:

      06:37am | 30/03/11

      I will ignore actorel’s totally uninformed comment and I hope all that read the pages of The Punch do also. When I first read the headline I thought “good luck” but on reading the body of the story I reflected that this plan may have a modicum chance at success.

      If Restaurants and Bars are not included this does give it a sliver of hope. In restaurants, at weddings, each table has a packet of 50 of the finest on the table. Depending on the expense of the wedding so does the quality of the cigarette offered. One brand “Double Happiness” carries the same characters used to express good fortune to a newly wedded couple.

      Men express their wealth by making sure they have a good quality of cigarette to offer fellow diners usually in the middle of the meal so they can rest from the meal before going into round two. In Bars it is impossible to join a table without being offered a smoke as a welcoming gift. So restaurants and bars not being included gives it some hope.

      Smoking is culturally engrained in the people, whoops sorry men. Here is the 2nd little ray of sunshine for a indoor non smoking ban in China.

      In China women smoking is a very rare thing and even the foreign girls get the disapproving glares from the Aunties when spotted partaking. I myself when visiting often will stop and stare if I see a girl smoking. It’s is such a rare sight. I think these disapproving Aunties will be the PC non smoking police that will enforce this law.

      The women will jump on this idea with relish after centuries of dealing with men smoking and enforce this law. Forget the police, they are mostly men and they are more likely to pull out a pack to offer you a better brand than what you are smoking in order to gain face.

    • Huey says:

      08:27am | 30/03/11

      Great couple of posts.. very informative.

    • acotrel says:

      08:38am | 30/03/11

      @ZRS My father had no problem giving up smoking after a life time with the habit!  He had three strokes, and the doctors told him he’d die in the next week if he continued!  He died a month later after he’d vomitted the antibiotics used to fight the bronchitis germ that all smokers carry in their lungs!  He drowned in his own lung fluids.  Beheading would have been much more humane, as my nurse sister had told him what would happen years previously, and he knew the score.  He faced his death bravely, after finding religion in his last days!

    • Van Diemonian says:

      06:39am | 30/03/11

      The Chinese could only be so lucky - it’s only being banned in enclosed public areas. The communist party that rules my state are also banning it outdoors. Thank you comrade Giddings, I’ve got the red flag flying proudly from my verandah.

    • iansand says:

      07:28am | 30/03/11

      Last time I was in China drivers no longer drank alcohol.  Anything is possible, but I suspect that re-education camps will have to be part of the strategy if this ban is to work.

      In Australia there was a strong attitude that smoking was anti-social BEFORE bans were imposed.  In China there is no such attitude - if anything, the reverse is the case.

    • ZSRenn says:

      08:17am | 30/03/11

      What a lot of bollocks!

      Reducation camps for smoking.

      Ignorance is bliss I guess Ian

    • iansand says:

      08:58am | 30/03/11

      Do you think that re-education camps do not exist?  Or do you simply lack a sense of humour?

    • ZSRenn says:

      12:14pm | 30/03/11

      @ Ian
      I am sick of the lies that Australian’s are told everyday about China by the Australian media. (I am not referring to this factual article).

      If you were joking I apologize but to be fair you are guilty of sprouting your own form of rhetoric on a daily basis. It is a bit hard to discern humor from that rhetoric in a written forum.  .

      Just look at the comments so far;

      Lack of movement within the country (Untrue)
      Lack of western media (Untrue)
      Every family can only have one child (Untrue)
      Chinese only have minimal freedom (Untrue)
      Lack of international travel said by you (Untrue) Actually the biggest problem I face at the moment getting my wife to Australia is the Australian Government not the Chinese. 
      Incarceration without trial again by you (Untrue)
      State controlled media also by you (Untrue) I have cable with more world channels than you could ever imagine in Australia. Most hotels have at least CNN and I watch Hong Kong news every evening when I am there. 

      So you can see that I have reason to be skeptical regarding the humor of your comment when you go on to perpetuate a few more of the lies that are spoken about China.

    • iansand says:

      12:42pm | 30/03/11

      Lack of movement within the country (Untrue) - Are you saying that a Chinese person can live wherever they want in China?  That’s not what I hear from Chinese people.

      Lack of western media (Untrue) Not a problem if you speak the appropriate language (and I suppose you have heard of the Great Firewall - a thing I have actually experienced trying to log onto various sites from within China).

      Every family can only have one child (Untrue) - Not every, but most is bad enough.  You surely do not believe that there is no control at all?

      Chinese only have minimal freedom (Untrue) - They may not have minimal freedom, but they sure as hell don’t have complete freedom.

      Lack of international travel said by you (Untrue) Actually the biggest problem I face at the moment getting my wife to Australia is the Australian Government not the Chinese.  - Part of my job is helping Chinese associates to get exit permits for business.  It is not automatic, by any means.

      Incarceration without trial again by you (Untrue) - I can give you a phone number of a man I know who spent over a year in prison without trial.

      State controlled media also by you (Untrue) I have cable with more world channels than you could ever imagine in Australia. Most hotels have at least CNN and I watch Hong Kong news every evening when I am there. -  As do I, but what about the news from within China?  That sure as heck is controlled.

    • ZSRenn says:

      03:13pm | 30/03/11

      @ Iansand

      Lack of movement within China (Untrue)

      Migrant workers returning home at Lunar New Year

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/picturegalleries/7197216/Chinese-lunar-new-year-millions-of-migrant-workers-at-railway-stations-to-head-home-for-the-holidays.html

      New fast train

      http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/24341/?a=f

      Lack of international travel said by you (Untrue) neither is it automatic in Australia. You have to get a passport then you have to get a Visa into most countries. My wife and I have travelled to Europe and most of Asia with minimal fuss. I would suggest to your clients that they might get someone who is a little better at their job. We did it ourselves took us a week. Again the biggest fuss was getting her into Europe not out of China.

      Lack of western media (Untrue) not a problem if you speak the appropriate language. All Chinese schools have English as a second language and I only have English, Mandarin and a smattering of Cantonese which serves me well enough.

      Incarceration without trial again by you (Untrue) I work with a local judge whilst in China a good Christian man who is not a member of the communist party and he works very hard to make sure his trials are fair and just.

      Did I not read in the news lately that an Australian man claims he was kept incarcerated for 7 years without trial perhaps your friend had a similar problem.

      State controlled media also by you (Untrue) Last I heard Hong Kong was part of China or did that change again. Getting the News from fully independent Rupert Murdoch must give you such a feeling of superiority. 


      Ian getting on a bus and going to Shanghai and The Great Wall does not make you an expert on China. This is obvious from the lack of knowledge you have on the subject.

    • iansand says:

      03:33pm | 30/03/11

      ZSRenn - Your “refutations” would be more convincing if you actually attempted to refute what I write.

    • ZSRenn says:

      04:22pm | 30/03/11

      @ Iansand your hope that readers will pass by my long refutation of what you said to your small dismissive comment is eternal.

    • COME SUNT says:

      04:34pm | 30/03/11

      I think I might move to China. It sounds a lot better than Communist Australia

    • iansand says:

      05:02pm | 30/03/11

      Lack of movement within China (Untrue)

      Migrant workers returning home at Lunar New Year

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/picturegalleries/7197216/Chinese-lunar-new-year-millions-of-migrant-workers-at-railway-stations-to-head-home-for-the-holidays.html

      New fast train

      http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/24341/?a=f

      If I am an Uighur in Urumqui can I get on a train, fast or otherwise and move permanently to Beijing?  I don’t think so.  If there is freedom of movement why are there illegal workers in the east?  How could they be illegal if they are allowed to live wherever they want?

      Lack of international travel said by you (Untrue) neither is it automatic in Australia. You have to get a passport then you have to get a Visa into most countries. My wife and I have travelled to Europe and most of Asia with minimal fuss. I would suggest to your clients that they might get someone who is a little better at their job. We did it ourselves took us a week. Again the biggest fuss was getting her into Europe not out of China.

      I don’t need a permit to leave Australia.  If I go to a place where I don’t need a visa - say Canada - I hop a plane and I’m there.  If it took you a week to get a permit it was not automatic.

      Lack of western media (Untrue) not a problem if you speak the appropriate language. All Chinese schools have English as a second language and I only have English, Mandarin and a smattering of Cantonese which serves me well enough.

      What about stories about China, in China?  Are you telling me that there is no control there?

      Incarceration without trial again by you (Untrue) I work with a local judge whilst in China a good Christian man who is not a member of the communist party and he works very hard to make sure his trials are fair and just.

      Did I not read in the news lately that an Australian man claims he was kept incarcerated for 7 years without trial perhaps your friend had a similar problem.

      Next time you chat to your judge ask him his acquittal rate.  And you have found someone who spent 7 years in prison without a trial?  I guess that proves my Chinese national colleague could not have spent a year in prison.  In your mind.

      State controlled media also by you (Untrue) Last I heard Hong Kong was part of China or did that change again. Getting the News from fully independent Rupert Murdoch must give you such a feeling of superiority. I see.  You can get news in Hong Kong.  That means that the whole country gets it.  If you think so.

      Ian getting on a bus and going to Shanghai and The Great Wall does not make you an expert on China. This is obvious from the lack of knowledge you have on the subject.
      Haven’t been to Shanghai.  Nearest I got was Changshu.  Have been to Badaling.  Also a couple of other places.

    • mike j says:

      05:20pm | 30/03/11

      I’m confused, ZSRenn. Some Chinese people come here in leaky boats claiming asylum, telling us that their lives are in danger from the repressive regime of the communist government in China, and citing a litany of human rights abuses that they have experienced firsthand.

      Then there are people like you who would have us believe that China is land of the free, an ultra-progressive state with a free market and media, where everybody is happy, GDP is meaningful, and the evils of the West are far, far away.

      Hmm… who to believe?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_People’s_Republic_of_China

    • ZSRenn says:

      03:21am | 31/03/11

      @ iansand I do not know what you are so afraid of to be this pedantic on this subject.

      1. I can’t say about Beijing as I said i am involved in the south but what I do know is Muslim food cooked by Urumqi migrant workers and business owners is one of my favorites

      2. So the laws are different the fact remains she can leave and return at will. She just needs the appropriate paper work.

      3. I am not saying at all Ian that there is no control but you might like to check out http://english.cntv.cn/live/  and make up your own mind. In Australia the press will lie to you and in China it just does not tell you. I do not know which the best system is.

      4. I am not saying to wrongs make a right. You tend to be good at that in our political discussions regarding the Carbon Tax. What I am saying is that there are holes in both systems and before you are critical of China’s perhaps you should have a look in your own back yard.

      5. I watch the news from Hong Kong in the mainland. Again I visit the south near Hong Kong I cannot speak for all of China. It’s a big place and maybe English and Cantonese news does not have a high rating in the west.

      @ mike j do some research and stop quoting Wikipedia it is not always accurate and most bloggers will actually ridicule you for using it. I tend to be a bit kinder to new people than that.

      The refugees coming to Australia are from Afghanistan and Sri Lanka at the moment not from China. If you would like some info on refugees to Australia please follow this link

      http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/online/Refugees_s3.htm

      I think it very unlikely that any Chinese citizen would be given refugee status in Australia today and neither was these students and a good proportion has since moved home.

      On topic I spoke to people today about how successful the banning of smoking would be and all laughed and said “Good Luck!”

    • True Believer says:

      02:12pm | 31/03/11

      @ZSRenn

      If China is as free as you suggest may I ask why the real Christian Church has to meet secretly in homes, why Bibles have to be smuggled in and why Christian pastors and others are imprisoned because they are Christians?

    • Tracker says:

      03:12pm | 31/03/11

      @iansand, if the Uighur (not all of course but some Uighur do have a problem with the Chinese Government and Han Chinese) stopped blowing up train lines in Xinjiang Province then perhaps you might be able to get a train from Xinjiang to Beijing lol….you have fully explained your apparent hatred of China. Have a nice day grin

    • mike j says:

      06:33pm | 31/03/11

      ZSRenn, your pedantry is becoming less and less amusing.

      I could cut-paste the 19 published references from that Wikipedia article if you like: China Daily, Washington Journal of Modern China, Reuters, BBC News, CNN, Associated Press, The New York Times… which particular source did you object to?

      ‘Wikipedia is wrong’ is the new Godwin’s law. Welcome to the sharp end of stupidity.

    • ZSRenn says:

      08:30pm | 31/03/11

      @ mike j iansand and whoever else gets back to this page.

      When I am in China I look to my right and I see 9 new residential buildings being built 11 stories tall.  I guess there would be 150 being built in the city in which I have invested right now and all through the night. They cannot build these fast enough.

      Everyday well educated Chinese from all over the country are coming here for expanding employment opportunities. The locals are improving their wealth at an exponential rate.

      They are sending their Children to Australian, NZ, Canadian, US and the UK for university education.  They take overseas holidays at a regular rate not only to visit their children but to anywhere we might go.

      They are educating with a great moral background and a sense of peace so that this generation will have a strong understanding of other cultures. It is law in some towns that every child has contact once a week at school with a foreigner.

      The Chinese are trying to understand us but we make no effort to understand them. In their efforts they are gradually introducing many of our social mores as is evident by this article and the introduction of the aged pension.

      The culture has been around for 5000 years standing there yelling at it is not going to make it change.

      China is Australia on steroids in the 1960’s.

      Wikipedia is great for well known facts dates etc but only for that.

      When it comes to opinion pieces that’s all they are. Opinions and as the saying goes every arsehole has one. You need to dig deeper in your research.

      These preconceived ideas about China have got to go. They are old fashioned, ill advised and they are costing us money in investment opportunities!

    • True Believer says:

      12:58pm | 01/04/11

      @ZSRenn

      I see you chose not to or were unable to answer my question?

    • ZSRenn says:

      08:14am | 02/04/11

      @ True Believer I didn’t answer because I didn’t see it and I wish I hadn’t as it is just more proof of how ignorant Australians are about China. I do not know who is organizing this bullshit and can only think the reason they do is to install a fear of China so as better sell their own product.

      The Bible is freely available in China. Christian Church’s are freely attended both the happy clapper variety and that of the mainstream.

      At the local Catholic Church I have attended which is located just off the main shopping mall and is easy to find as it is the one with the big cross on the roof the scripture is read in Cantonese and Mandarin doubling the service time and no one leaves. There is another right next door to the local high school but it only has services in Cantonese so I can’t really enjoy it.

      Did you not see my earlier post about my friend the Judge who is a Christian? He is of the Happy Clapper variety. He is not a member of the party and a great Blues guitarist.

      Muslims worship freely and there is Muslim universities in Xingjian which are focused on training clergy. Christians worship freely and there are Christian hospitals and schools all over the country.

      Please supply me a link so I can write the author of the shit you quote a letter and attach 100 or so pictures I have taken supporting my argument.

    • True Believer says:

      07:26pm | 03/04/11

      @ZSRenn

      I think you have been conned, seeing only what you want to see. Yes of course there are the State “churches” but the majority of Chinese Christians will not be found in them.

      The site below is just one of many. If you want to know the truth about what happens to Christians who do not attend the official “churches” put into Google “persecution of Christians in China” - you will find there are many - write to them if you wish, you might learn the truth instead of seeing only what is on show. :0) 

      http://www.persecution.org/2011/03/23/a-house-church-in-china-raided-by-police/

    • ZSRenn says:

      02:24pm | 04/04/11

      @ True believer. I now who has been conned and is only seeing what they want to see and it isn’t me.

      What you are suggesting is that the Chinese government built several Christian churches complete with crosses and then filled them with 100’s of worshippers each.

      China then got a blues guitar playing judge to make friends with foreigners so that he could take them to these churches. Then when I suggested I preferred a more traditional style of Church the Chinese government organized a Catholic style meeting on the random day I turned up at the church.

      After living this experience you want me to find out the truth about Chinese Christian worship from a website that was created by a Christian faction designed to out persecution and needs too for its staff to keep their Chinese vacation time running.

      You want me to believe a report handed down from one person to another in four different languages and then by phone to someone else and finally to a journalist for writing. Give me a break.!I am on the ground using my own eyes and ears. I live China when I am there! I would rather believe my experience through my own senses !

      If you would rather listen to Chinese whispers that’s your problem.

    • True Believer says:

      06:27pm | 04/04/11

      @ZSZenn

      None those so blind as those who refuse to look beyond the end of their nose. I told you where to search, you did not bother. Just go on believing what you have been conned into.  There is plenty of evidence for those who have eyes to see.

    • ZSRenn says:

      08:41pm | 04/04/11

      @ One Eyed Believer

      If the cap fits wear it!

    • True Believer says:

      11:45am | 05/04/11

      @ZSRenn

      Now that is the pot calling the kettle black my friend. Do some research and learn.

    • Muzz says:

      08:09am | 30/03/11

      The ban might not be helpful to their population problem.

    • Nigel says:

      08:25am | 30/03/11

      In reference to the smoking rate in Ireland increasing, eight years after the ban. The whole smoking debate is not about smokers…it’s about non-smokers. As long as non-smokers are not affected by smoking, then the ban must be a success, as the right to free air for those who choose not to smoke is the only issue of importance.

    • JB says:

      09:03am | 30/03/11

      A lot of rubbish talked about China, by people who have never been there.
      A place where you can fly a kite in the city, ride a bike without a helmet, buy beer (cheaply) at a corner store, go throgh a red light….need I go on?

      Australia is the Nanny State without a doubt, Australians are too wimpy to ever question authority.


      The rugged, larrikin Aussie is a myth.

    • malohi says:

      09:24am | 30/03/11

      I like your post,
      But the freedom to go through a red light… I don’t know if that would bode well for public safety.
      But I cant imagine some selfish,rats tale clad, southern cross tattood, shirtless rat bogan in a vn commodore patroning the Chinese roads either.
      So maybe it would work out.
      Btw I have always considered larrikan to be code for “slelfish dickhead who pisses people off frequently”
      If at your funeral the eulogies start with “he was a larrikan” you truly failed at life.

    • iansand says:

      09:26am | 30/03/11

      Incarceration without trial.  State control of the media.  Restrictions on internal movement, and on overseas travel.  I could go on.

      How important is flying a kite?

    • Peran says:

      09:37am | 30/03/11

      or buy cheap fireworks to set off in the middle of the street with the locals including the police on chinese new year…....... once you have been there you realise how oppressed (yes oppressed) you are in australia… just dont bag the chinese government while you are there…...... although australia might be heading that way as well with Gillard pronouncing Assange guilty before he had even been a trial

    • TP says:

      12:49pm | 30/03/11

      JB I totally agree.  The media (particularly ABC) are very anti-China and as a result many Australians who have not had the opportunity to visit China end up with a negative perception of the country.  Having visited / worked in many parts of China, it is very clear that Chinese have greater freedoms than we do here in Australia. The laws are enforced in a more flexible manner (discretion) and the country has the feel of a 1960s Australia - a time when family bonds were strong, respect for elderly, good manners and an attitude of what one could do for the country and local community.
      When in China I would access the News.com.au site every day & listen to digital Melbourne radio every morning via the Internet - not once has this been restricted.  CCTV9 (English speaking news network) broadcasts new from around the world and had more comprehensive coverage of the Middle East events than I could find in the Australian internet media. 
      China is a capitist society with a big C with the middle class expectations no different to Australia.  The Chinese dislike their politicians as much as we dislike ours.

    • Shane says:

      09:13am | 30/03/11

      Come on Lucy, a second smoking-related post in two days? I’m exhausted from yesterday!

    • Thommo says:

      10:03am | 30/03/11

      What I choose to put in my body is my choice. Fuck anyone else who thinks otehrwise - If I want to die early from a smoking related disease - then that’s my choice. Fuck you fascists

    • Lucy Kippist

      Lucy Kippist says:

      10:06am | 30/03/11

      Sounds like you might need to step outside for one right now, Thommo.

    • NicoleG says:

      10:18am | 30/03/11

      Have you been in to Marilyn’s stash of nasty pills Thommo?

    • Sue says:

      10:18am | 30/03/11

      I expect you will reject medical attention to replace your diseased lungs or provide medical care while you meet your untimely death?

    • Nelle says:

      10:31am | 30/03/11

      Think I love you Thommo!

    • AliceC says:

      11:05am | 30/03/11

      It’s more relating to what comes out of your body (i.e. smoke) which then goes into mine, without my consent.

      What I choose to put in my body is also my choice, and I should not be forced to inhale cigarette smoke if I don’t want to.

    • Anne Ti says:

      11:06am | 30/03/11

      I totally agree Thommo. I couldn’t care less if you and millions of others want to smoke. I do however, as a non smoker, care whether I am forced to smoke via a smoker. I didn’t choose to have lung problems as a child and as an adult, so it’s not that I am morally appossed to those who want to harm themselves. It is more a case I don’t want to choke on something that isn’t my choice.

      I am sure you don’t like to be forced to take drugs that disagree with you. So smoke all you want…just don’t make me smoke it.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      11:17am | 30/03/11

      Don’t care if you want to die early from a smoking related disease, it’s the taxpayer forking out for your cancer related illness that gives me the shits. There are faster ways to die, do the taxpayer a favor and avail yourself of them.

    • Rossco says:

      11:29am | 30/03/11

      Exactly Thommo, you are an adult and free to smoke as you see fit and I will fight for your right to do so. I myself am not a smoker bu i disagree with the harsh nanny state crap the government constantly hauls upon us on a daily basis. I advocate for the personal individual rights of adults above all else and government where it is only truly necessary.

      In terms of banning indoor smoking, I think it should be up to the choice of the business whether it wants it’s patrons to smoke or not.

    • Bill says:

      11:59am | 30/03/11

      @Sue, you’re showing your complete and utter ignorance here.  Smokers have no reason to reject their tax-payer funded treatment if they get sick - they paid for it through tobacco taxes.  HINT: that’s supposed to be the point of tobacco taxes.  Tobacco taxes more than cover the burden that smokers place on the health system. Face facts, you’re just another health fascist who doesn’t like people making choices you disagree with.  Don’t worry, after you’ve won the war on smoking, you can start on Alcohol, or Gambling or Fast Food. Yay for you.

    • Thommo says:

      10:27am | 30/03/11

      I don’t smoke - but it’s the principal. I’m sick of people telling other people what to do. You should be able to do whatever you want in your own house.

    • Liz says:

      10:29am | 30/03/11

      it is a start and with the call for carbon tax we need to start eliminating the unnecessary things from out lives. Smoking is a philthy habit that costs the health system millions of dollars that could be spent on other much needed services. I think we could also take away the source of cigarettes from the Torres Strait and Aboriginal populations, infact from all Australians. If they can’t get it they won’t be able to do it. We need more action on it, more education in schools. And as for China it is a very good start, bring bigger bans but don’t ask the public to bear your irresponsible behaviour.

    • michael j says:

      11:12am | 30/03/11

      Liz do you not pay attention ,Smoking is not a PHILTHY HABIT,Smoking is a full blown ADDICTION to one of the most deadly drugs known to man/woman kind,it is reported to be much harder to stop smoking than it is to give up heroin ,,people try all sorts things to give up,stupid patches probably owned by tabbacco companies,to going to a remote island without a corner store,,picking your nose at the dinner table is a philthy habit
      smokers are addicted to an evil drug usually at a young age to provide
      capitalist companies with a huge income,i agree with you smokes should be banned,but don’t make out i m the cause,i m a victim,

    • Liz says:

      12:36pm | 30/03/11

      I also agree smoking is an addiction. But if we make the product harder to obtain will that help stop people from taking up the addiction?

      How do you suggest that the gov’t helps people kick this habit which is bad for the environment?

    • michael j says:

      01:22pm | 30/03/11

      IF the government can ban the product ASBESTOSIS that is proven to be bad for your health,and also FINE the company/companies making and selling these products,and set up a compensation fund to help those affected,,
      I fail to see why it car’nt do the same against tobacco companies,
      maybe it is lawyer speak,, cigarettes MAY cause cancer
      cigarettes may be bad for your health
      it is proven that cigarettes/nicotine cause a reaction/stimulate an area of the brain that causes you to want a hit of nicotine in certain situations,,after a coffee ,with a beer,going thru a speed camera at 5 kph over the limit,,
      they even use these little critters running over your brain in their adds for nicotine patches,,
      i know people who have/had stopped for up to 30 years but still get the craving
      the only way to truly stop is never start,,
      But i spose theres more money in cigarettes then fibro,,,,,,

    • The Original Oz says:

      02:15pm | 30/03/11

      @Liz - as mentioned in an earlier thread the additional taxes that smokers pay to support their addiction more than covers any medical treatment they may need in their future.  If you want to have a gripe about burdens on our medical system then have a go at the fatties - Obesity related diseases are a larger financial burden on the Australian medical system than smoking. Now there is a cause you can “sink your teeth” into.

    • Knemon says:

      03:03pm | 30/03/11

      @ Liz - “costs the health system millions of dollars” - Do you have something to back this statement up? I very much doubt it.  I want to see a tax on ‘fat’ - the higher the fat content of a product the more tax you pay. Obesity is the number one problem facing Australia today, not smoking. Australia is now recognised as the most obese nation on the planet, we have taken over from the USA, nice.

    • Terry Wright says:

      04:36pm | 30/03/11

      michael j says: “it is reported to be much harder to stop smoking than it is to give up heroin”.

      Funny, but I have never heard this one come from an actual heroin addict.

      Smoking might be hard to quit but kicking heroin is the single most soul destroying and excruciating hell that anyone will ever experience. Why do you think heroin addicts sometimes resort to desperate measures they never even considered they were capable of?

    • michael j says:

      09:19pm | 30/03/11

      @terry
      well i have met a few ex smackie’s that have been off the junk for well over 30 years but still smoke,one of the most soul destroying experiences to get off heroin that you speak of would possibly be being thrown BOGGO ROAD JAIL on a 3.5 year sentence,cold turkey,no one to wipe his sweatie forehead four concrete walls to scream at,my ex is another i got her off,still smokes she has given up a few times but like me seems to end up back on smokes
      BUT it was on a tv program on drug use and interviews with former
      heroin addicts a long time where i first heard it,,
      anyway if you know some ex addicts that smoke ask them why?
      just say some prick commenting on THE PUNCH said it was true,,

    • Sean says:

      05:20pm | 31/03/11

      THat’s rubbish, michael j. Smoking is only an addiction if you let yourself get addicted. I only smoke one or two a month, usually when I’m out drinking with friends. I imagine that I don’t have a problem because I started in my 20s rather than in my teens, and because I smoke because I want to instead of because of peer pressure.

    • mike j says:

      10:29am | 30/03/11

      By the time he requires medical attention, Sue, he will already have paid for it several times over.

    • Shane says:

      10:42am | 30/03/11

      The catchcry of the selfish smoker. No man is an island, Mike. He may cover the costs of his treatment by “donating” $12 from every pack, but the economy suffers a net loss if he dies at 40.

    • mike j says:

      12:23pm | 30/03/11

      True, Shane, but then where is the corresponding outcry against other risk-taking activities? Cars kill far more people than tobacco. But don’t bother answering my question, just run away with your tail between your legs like you did here:
      http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/punch-on-open-thread-29-03-2011/

      The marginalisation of smokers is nothing but legal bullying, and it’s amazing that so-called intelligent people can rationalise and tacitly endorse such blatant exploitation and discrimination, regardless of how they feel about passive smoking.

    • HappyCynic says:

      12:29pm | 30/03/11

      Wow Shane way to commoditise human beings… is that all humanity is to you?  A series of dollar signs - some negative, some positive?  So long as a human ends his life in the black he’s made a valuable contribution?

      Lame.

    • Slick says:

      01:11pm | 30/03/11

      Shane I dont understand how someone dying at 40 is an issue.
      Ok maybe you will lose 10 -15 years of their working life. But you then don’t have to support them in their old age, with all the illness and strains on resources that are caused.
      Understandable if your a healthy, mobile 70 year old, but a lot are not.
      I know many old ladies (my grandmothers and grandma in law) who are well and truly over living. Yes they have good days, but 9 days out of 10 they are sad, lonley as most partners and friends have already left, and family are too busy with their own lives to see them except in holidays. They have multiple health issues, some of which cause chronic pain.
      I would love to hit retirement age, but unless there is money to do something with it I don’t think I will enjoy sitting day in day out watching crappy day time TV

    • Kate says:

      11:30am | 30/03/11

      When I was in China in the 1980s there were huge posters of leader Deng Xiaoping up depicting him with a big smile and a Panda ciggie in his hand.

      Chinese Government efforts to curb smoking started with a ban in government buildings now then public spaces. I imagine it will continue.

      Apparently in 1638 an imperial edict was declared in China that “the possession, use or selling of tobacco was a capital offense punishable by decapitation.” So the softly softly approach may take a little longer. At least they are moving in the right direction.

    • Bern says:

      12:13pm | 30/03/11

      it is great to see they are taking action by banning smoking in public places and take the product out of vending machines. This is great.

    • fml says:

      11:36am | 30/03/11

      The majority of smokers, myself included, are happy to smoke away from non-smokers. They asked to move out of the pub, we did, they then asked us to move out of the beer garden, we did, they asked us to be atleast 5 meters away from the edge of the beer garden, we did. Everytime we make a concession the posts are moved.

    • Bill says:

      11:53am | 30/03/11

      Surely there is a lesson in this: stand up for yourselves instead of just accepting these bullshit incremental changes.  Smokers just seem to take all of this crap lying down. For gods-sake, you make up 20% of the population, that’s a pretty decent voting block.

    • Rossco says:

      11:40am | 30/03/11

      Cigarettes should not be banned.

      They should be available to any adult who wishes to partake in them. It’s the adult’s choice to smoke those cigarettes.

      Yes I agree that smokers should not be able to smoke near others to detriment of their health, there should be mandated smoking areas at work sites and in busy parts of public spaces.

      Businesses such as a pubs or restaurant should have the option whether or not to have smoking allowed in their premises. If they want to appeal to a smoker market, then so be it. If they want to repeal all the non smokers who find it disgusting, then that’s the company’s choice.

      As for paying for higher health care costs of smokers, we also reap big taxes from smokers as well.

      I am not a smoker by the way.

    • Adam says:

      11:42am | 30/03/11

      How dare people die from a disease after paying for their treatment and cause the economy a loss!

      Your comment is rubbish. How many smokers die at 40, maybe 1%?

      Are people emigrating selfish for causing a loss of potential income to the economy?

    • Jade says:

      11:43am | 30/03/11

      Yes, wasting 4 Million dollars on TV commercials is really going to get people to kick the habit, just the same as taxing it more did, and all those other “gory” adds did.

      People will only quit if they really want to, it is an addiction and no matter how much tax is placed on smokes, no matter how many adds we see on TV it will not make people quit unless they want to.

      Their bodies to do what they want with.

    • malohi says:

      12:06pm | 30/03/11

      Smokers are weak. You know your habbit assaults people who hate it and it gives you no benefit. It is just weak impulsive morons, it is no wonder that the majority of problem gamblers, alcoholics and drug users smoke.
      Too weak and inconsiderate to give up. Addicts…

    • fml says:

      12:26pm | 30/03/11

      I’ll give up smoking if you give up insulting people.

    • Matt says:

      01:54pm | 30/03/11

      If you’re stupid enough to walk through my smoke then it’s your problem to deal with it, obviously by crying, whining and insulting people… Very mature.. Also it’s showing your maturity by grouping all smokers under the ‘weak and impulsive’ banner - your comment not only makes you look uneducated, but very pathetic..

    • Elizabeth says:

      04:11pm | 30/03/11

      Hahaha Malohi drives a car and spews out crap from it for EVERYBODY TO BREATHE…hahahaha….double standards derp! He is an ADDICT to his car like evryone else that has posted today….my we are perfect these days!!

    • malohi says:

      05:29pm | 30/03/11

      Your witty retorts do nothing to dispute my point. At least driving serves a purpose, a necessary evil in modern society. Your point is as redundant as saying electricity plants pollute, effecting people, you are addicted to electricity, hipocrite. Umad addicts? use any scape goat, flawed logic or excuse to justify yolur filthy habbit.
      Can you tell me the difference between a heroin junkie that leaves his needles around in public and a smoker in public polluting the air. Both self indulgent people seeking a personal high with scarce regard for others.
      But continue attacking me without touching on my points, typical impulsive behaviour of the common addict.smile

    • Kika says:

      01:39pm | 30/03/11

      What about Singapore too? That whole place seemed like an ash tray. Everyone smokes. But that’s kind of why I like the place - the mixed smell of Chinese cigarettes, incense and pollution. Hmmmmm Singapore.

    • Golly Gosh says:

      06:37pm | 30/03/11

      The harping on smokers is frankly becoming tiresome.sure, lecture school age children of the perils, but get real. While the government continues to rake millions in fag tax, again, where are the ‘constant’ messages of abused women and children at the hands of drunks, not to mention the road toll.  Again every smoker knows the health risks, but I am yet to see anyone come forward and say I got beaten up because he had too many cigarettes. Get off your soap boxes unless you are offering an across the board analysis of harmful substances instead of one focus constantly. Oh by the way, yes I smoke, but, I don’t beat my family in drunken rages, or, gamble household income then ask for handouts from charities or visit government funded ‘rooms’ for a fix, so be real not one eyed re a popular topic.

    • morlokk says:

      07:20pm | 30/03/11

      One day we might get back a bit of sanity on this world of fears and realize what bullshit is being banded around from all vested interests in regards to this matter, whether it being from pro or it anti. From a personal perspective I do like to have a puff as it surely relieves stresses of living in this so called modern world, that by all accounts it being so inhabited by many crazy fools.

      In this argument it always comes down to the money, whether it be by those who market it or those who are against it. Do so forget health issues as you are in the end going to dies from something or another when you immerse yourself within the reality of the experience we call living life. Why not make life enjoyable as possible for oneself and each other and learn to so share this world and have smoking and non-smoking areas for those that do and for those that do not. And while we’re at it why not ban all marketing as it be root of all evil as it is all about the money, for health be just it Big Business.

    • Fez says:

      03:42am | 31/03/11

      The china debate was interesting, but the next debate was plain sad, with the exception of Thommo’s comment. A lot of people don’t know what they’re talking about; smoking isn’t just one thing. There’s rollies, there’s tailors, there’s many different types. And considering the large amount of people I know who can have a rollie every now and then and enjoy it (which is still SMOKING), well, it kinda goes against the whole addiction thing. I’d say people are a lot more addicted to consuming - but hey capitalism isn’t bad is it. No it’s just the crux of our system. Which funnily enough, is response for the stress which causes people to want a smoke. The ‘taxpayers’ money for treatment thing… smokers are stealing your money huh? Please get off my planet.

      That being said, fair enough it being banned in shopping centres and stuff, s’long as you can light one up outside or at home.

    • Justin says:

      09:28am | 31/03/11

      One in five ATSI people die from smoking related illness every year? That’d make their life expectancy 5 years…

    • Greg says:

      03:38pm | 01/04/11

      I think the chinese approach will work well in China. It wouldn’t work here and we have our own methods.
      From my experience in China, official decrees are taken fairly seriously, not as a threat, but as a good citizen you will follow the wisdom of the leadership. As such, official bans on activities should have a significantly more positive outcome than here.

 

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From: Welfare for breeders is a bonus for everyone

Change Up! says:

I have no problem paying my taxes. As a single, childless person on a very decent income, I can afford it and not have my life severely altered. Plus I understand that my taxes paying for things like schools, childcare and infrastructure is ultimately a good thing. A better community is better for me… [read more]

Gentle jabs to the ribs

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

A private school girl’s family is sueing her elite, extremely expensive private school for not… Read more

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