When Alan Joyce wakes up every morning, there is always the slim chance that several hundred people travelling in a metal tube branded with the Qantas insignia will have plummeted thousands of feet to their doom.

Pretty fly for a white guy. Picture: Ray Strange

The CEOs of the Big Four Banks don’t have that problem. They fear falls of a less lethal kind. Wall Street plunges don’t kill. And unlike plane wrecks, there is always the chance of a rebound.

This might seem a dramatically ghoulish way to portray the inherent risks of two fundamentally different businesses, but it’s worth considering in light of Qantas’s paltry net profit of $43 million in the six months to December. Compare that to the $3 billion or so of the major banks and it’s like a Cessna to an A380.

Who’d run an airline, eh?

Here’s another way of looking at that $43 million profit. It’s just 1.2 per cent of Qantas’s estimated market value of $3.6 billion.

That’s an awful lot of metal in the air, PR nightmares, kids standing on the edge of cliffs in penguin suits singing old Peter Allen tunes, Neil Perry recipes and ongoing stoushes with the unions for not a whole lot of profit.

Little wonder then that Qantas chief Alan Joyce was all blue sky and big picture while announcing 500 job cuts today. He had to be. His entire management strategy is based on short term pain for long term gain. As he said about a dozen times, he is making tough decisions now to ensure that Qantas continues to employ tens of thousands of Australians in the future.

Joyce was canny today. He quoted both Finance Minister Penny Wong and Financial Services Minister Bill Shorten on the toughness of the current economic environment. His clever inference was that if the party of the Union movement recognises it’s tough out there, then so should the unions themselves.

Joyce also emphasised and re-emphasised his main bullet point that “no maintenance jobs” would go offshore. That was his attempt to downplay the fact that at least 500 maintenance jobs, and possibly many more, would be cut.

There is sound reason to cull the maintenance jobs. Qantas employs around 1400 heavy maintenance staff at three such facilities, at Tullamarine, Avalon and Brisbane. But with the modernisation of his fleet, less heavy maintenance is required. With the recent technical problems aboard Qantas planes, news of new planes and the retirement of several ageing 747s should be welcomed. Yet for Joyce, the headlines will be all about job cuts.

Who’d run an airline, eh?

Alan Joyce isn’t paid to be likeable. And he’s not, when he’s saying statements like this in relation to last October’s fleet grounding:

“The grounding was necessary because our customers were massively disrupted by unions. It was impossible to deliver our schedule and the business community were starting to leave in droves.”

Or this:

“If we had done nothing, our brand would have been in trouble. The action we took, though difficult, was necessary…. Our customer research said it was worth it.”

Joyce is displaying gross arrogance when he says the grounding was necessary and that the response was positive. It was a hugely disruptive ploy bordering on the sort of sabotage the union movement phased out years ago.

But he is right when he says change is necessary at Qantas. The airline has to change. Some of the things Joyce said today were astounding to those whose ear is not regularly attuned to aviation issues. Who knew flights from Bangkok and Hong Kong to Europe aren’t profitable? Who knew Qantas spent nearly half a billion dollars in jet fuel in the last six months? Who knew they spent $1.4 billion on engineering and maintenance last year?

Who’d run an airline, eh?

Qantas will be nowhere if it doesn’t address its structural issues. The airline needs to be profitable to employ Australians. The real shame is that the focus of tomorrow’s papers will not be on the fat cat banks axing jobs, but on Qantas.

Qantas isn't the only Australian business sending its people to the job Q

119 comments

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    • Marco says:

      10:50am | 16/02/12

      Anthony, that’s why he’s paid the big bucks.

    • acotrel says:

      09:02pm | 16/02/12

      Perhaps QANTAS should make their risk assessments, and cost benefit analyses public ? Their ethics are questionable !

    • tren says:

      09:43am | 17/02/12

      Not so long ago, in a boardroom not so far from here…

      Hello +qantas board, You may not have heard of me, but my name is +alanjoyce and I am here to offer you a deal yoh cant refuse. I will do the dirty work you need done to save the company a million dollars a year for each of the next 10 year’s, and all I am asking for is to become your CEO and a 2 million dollar bonus effective immediately

      https://plus.google.com/u/0/108328852199584928218/posts/3ThUVqchB9k

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      11:02am | 16/02/12

      Moonlighting as a Qantas PR agent, Ant? Hope you got paid for it…...

    • Anna says:

      01:09pm | 16/02/12

      maybe Ant got a 71% payrise too? Maybe Ant should talk to those who actually do the work and not some fatcat who either way will leave with the golden egg, even if he runs Qantas in the ground.

    • RED says:

      01:54pm | 16/02/12

      @Anna
      How would a rank and file worker be a better person to talk to than the bloke running the company?
      Can you people not get it through your thick heads that if the company isn’t profitable NOBODY has a job.
      The irony of claiming he’s trying to run Qantas into the ground (by cutting expenses) when all the unions want are pay rises regardless of the consequences.

    • Dan Webster says:

      11:09am | 16/02/12

      Poor fella, I hope he will be okay.
      Maybe we could all send him short messages of reassurance.

      Who really gives a toss about the possible 1500 sacked workers anyway, they are just bottom dwellers of no importance.

      I really feel for Mr Joyce.

    • Wauker says:

      11:19am | 16/02/12

      Hear, hear, most of the bottom dwellers are possibly shifty workers anyway!

    • Keith Hammersmith says:

      12:37pm | 16/02/12

      Lets keep these ‘bottom dwellers’ employed for another year, and when QANTAS is out of business and every Qantas employee loses their job they can all rejoice! 
      Or Joyce can make the decisions he is paid to make, and keep the business running and maybe someone will thank him for keeping the thousands of others employed that he has managed to keep employed!
      But generally speaking ‘bottom dwellers’ do not think like that eh?

    • craig2 says:

      08:16pm | 16/02/12

      42 mill profit…this airline is in deep shit and that Dan is why joyce is paid the big bucks. Qantas is that close to going belly up and the unions just want more and more. So, yes, it’s a bitch whats happening to happening to those being laid off but the money and the work is just not there!

    • Dan says:

      11:20am | 16/02/12

      Actually a pretty sensible assessment of the situation.

      This point was well-put back during the whole grounding chaos, but we tend to view Qantas as more of a national icon, and less of a business. We don’t actually own it, and we have no say in how it’s run.

      Joyce answers to the shareholders, and the shareholders alone. Frankly, he should be applauded for having Qantas turn a profit at all.

      500 jobs had to go. He’s actually right in saying it’s a better outcome, than cutting costs further and exporting all maintenance jobs offshore.

      On another note, at least the beer is still free in economy class. Unlike those greedy bastards over at Virgin.

    • Andrew says:

      01:51pm | 16/02/12

      Your completley right Dan, managing to run an airline at a profit means he is better than 99% of the other airline CEO’s. Terrible, terrible business, why on earth would you want to own shares in an airline? Pretty sure if you really dig into the results you will find the situation is even worse than the obvious profit.

    • Macca says:

      02:13pm | 16/02/12

      Its interesting to compare Virgin and Qantas. Joyce cops all this stick for his decisions, and yet everyone is happy to fly Vrigin where they are paid less and the maintenance is done offshore.

      Anyone here who complains about Joyce and then chooses their airline on the basis of price is a hypocrite.

    • Sam says:

      07:10pm | 16/02/12

      “On another note, at least the beer is still free in economy class. Unlike those greedy bastards over at Virgin. “

      Simple fix… fly departing between 4 and 7 pm on weekdays. As long as you’re flying between mainland capital cities.

    • uunemployed thanks to labor says:

      11:20am | 16/02/12

      The unions screwed up and now we have job losses secondary to their greed, once again unions/ALP have made a mess and Australians get shafted big time. I’m guessing Gillard is in hiding and not giving a hoot about it all. UNIONS and ALP are always bad for this country!

    • SimonFromLakemba says:

      11:39am | 16/02/12

      Yes they are bad till you got a payrise which you would gladly take.

    • Ren says:

      12:25pm | 16/02/12

      Yeah so I could afford the massive cost of living increases and god forbid maybe even purchase a house.

      Maybe if I wasnt taxed to high hell from every direction and if house prices where reasonable I wouldnt need a pay rise. The cost of keeping me on would be less and maybe I could keep my job without driving up wages.

    • Shooter says:

      12:45pm | 16/02/12

      uunemployed thanks to labor most bank employees are not in a union but they are going to lose their jobs to greedy shareholders. So because you lost your job at MacDonald’s it’s someone else’s fault. A lot of jobs that do go overseas are not people in unions.

    • Against the Man says:

      12:45pm | 16/02/12

      Simon, I spoke to someone who is going to be axed, they said they would rather have their job at lesser pay than no job at all because no one is hiring during the current economic climate. Unions get you a pay rise and perks = short term gain/happiness = long term job loss

      Companies exist to make profit unless you have government owned enterprises that are more flexible in balancing profit (which feed back into the country’s budget) vs workers benefits. But never expect Labor to run this with success under union control and high level corruption!

    • Shooter says:

      01:12pm | 16/02/12

      Against the Man, so the banks make billions of dollars in profit and most employees are not in unions but their jobs go overseas is that still ok? 15 years ago there were a lot of IT, call centre and finance jobs go to overseas countries why didn’t the government of the day do anything about it? The same thing is happening now. Also in regards to politicians getting pay rises, I didn’t see the man saying no, first time for everything. I didnt see Liberal party mp’s say no. Neither Liberal or Labor or any other politician deserves a pay rise.

    • Ben C says:

      01:15pm | 16/02/12

      @ Shooter

      Not sure about bankers not being in unions - the many that I’ve dealt with on a professional basis (as their accountant) have all been a member of the Financial Services Union, particularly the frontline staff.

    • Against the Man says:

      03:32pm | 16/02/12

      No Shooter it isn’t ok, but like I said it is about profit and if individuals can’t negotiate a better deal for themselves eg individual contracts, it goes to the cheap overseas supply. Next time you visit K-Mart see how many products are made in China, it is virtually 99% of the store! China/India will pounce if Australians can’t be competitive! Unions are lead by douche bags who get paid lots, do little and suck the life out of employers and employees.

      ALP politicians NEVER deserve a pay rise. If you still haven’t figure that out I suggest you get a job and visit the real world more often!

    • Borderer says:

      03:34pm | 16/02/12

      I think the point was that the unions being effectively off the leash due to our governments unwillingness to act in the industrial dispute as well as the poorly written Fair Work legislation.
      The unions initiated the rolling stoppages to try and force up wages that cost the company millions has now come back to bite them. Their militant action made the company less profitable and consequently the deeper cuts the company had to make to turn it around. The company has to make profit or all the workers get the sack, it’s a business, not a charity. If the strikes had not happened then Qantas may have been able to carry the staff they are now laying off. Perhaps they should complain to the union or the government for their complicity, if Qantas were forced to keep the staff on and give the pay rise that the union wanted then all Qantas workers would be looking for a job, including Joyce.

    • Shooter says:

      08:40am | 17/02/12

      Against the Man, I own my company.

    • Philosopher says:

      11:21am | 16/02/12

      What is it with Punch commenters today? So much hate for Gina Rineheart, so much hate for Allan Joyce. Next it will be Clive Palmer’s turn for a Punch-bashing from all us commenters.

    • SimonFromLakemba says:

      11:41am | 16/02/12

      You would have to put it all in context with the current situation. I doubt they would be hated otherwise.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      11:49am | 16/02/12

      Clive Palmer is next week…...

    • Against the Man says:

      12:08pm | 16/02/12

      Don’t forget Gillard, $600,000 per year pension and pay rise this year for being a liar incompetent politician. And it is double pay out because Rudd gets it too. Tax payer keeps paying for Labor stuff ups and what do we get in return? Carbon tax and health rebate gone!

    • Philosopher says:

      12:08pm | 16/02/12

      I should hope so Shane, poor old Qld’ers are feeling very neglected of late…. no one cares about our state election! :(

    • mattb says:

      01:22pm | 16/02/12

      I used to think he was a wanker, Clive that is, until the last time he was on QandA and when the discussion turned to asylum seekers and he basically backed the greens idea of quick, onshore processing. Not that i vote greens, just that i beleive the greens are the only political party that hold both the moral and political ground on this issue. Then went on to say that the way asylum seekers are treated in this country is discusting. The big fella has a heart.

      Then there was all those massive bonuses and merc’s he gave to his workers at a chrissy show, proving he’s generous too.

      Alan Joyce just comes across as the sniveling little wanker with no friends that everyone picked on at school.

      Gina, well, I really don’t care for the woman, I sort of feel sorry for her, all that money yet she’s fat and ugly and even her own family hates her. I know for a fact my life, so far, has been a thousand times more fun than hers. If I was given the choice I’d chose what I have now which is great friends, great family and some fuckin good times over 20 billion dollars and Gina’s life. Shit, even her own father, who is the sole reason for her wealth, called her a cunning, greedy little “baby elephant”.

    • JL says:

      11:27am | 16/02/12

      WorkJoyces.

      All errors are the fault of the workers.

      All problems are due to the workers.

      All losses are because we hire Australian workers.

      Dam those nasty horrid little parasite workers, poor baby Alan has to put up with 30,000 thousand of those horrid little cockroaches. Poooor babyyy!

    • Joan says:

      01:14pm | 16/02/12

      JL: I `ll bet your one of the guys who are first in the queue for the worlds cheapest price., and don’t buy Qantas because its more exoensive.

    • Lily says:

      02:23pm | 16/02/12

      If you actually paid attention to what Alan Joyce had to say (and Qantas reports) the cost of of Qantas’ business (a very large part being the cost of fuel) and international circumstances played a large part to their current financial circumstances. 

      At the end of the day, both Alan Joyce’s and the unions have contributed to the current Qantas troubles, but there are also alot of external factors which are out of both of the parties control.  Qantas have recognised these issues and are trying to address them and the Unions should stop acting like its a management vs poor employees war. 

      They are both fighting for the same thing and that is the future of Qantas and its employees.

    • Fred says:

      11:31am | 16/02/12

      Er, I would. I’d run it, for half his pay, or even 1/8 of his pay. Do it for 10 years or so then retire.

      Who wouldn’t?

    • Ben says:

      12:32pm | 16/02/12

      Fred do you think you are good enough to run it? or smart enough to run it? there’s a reason why people with no education and lazy stay poor in Australia and the educated, hard working folks gets rich!hmm

    • Keith Hammersmith says:

      12:39pm | 16/02/12

      yeah, except no one is asking you to, for a reason I bet, because you just might not be any good at it.  Do you think CEO’s just get to their position from a bit of luck? Or do you think they might have some skills?

    • The King says:

      01:14pm | 16/02/12

      Fred, I guarantee that if you ran QANTAS, it wouldn’t exist in 5 years, let alone 10.

    • The King says:

      01:14pm | 16/02/12

      Fred, I guarantee that if you ran QANTAS, it wouldn’t exist in 5 years, let alone 10.

    • WarBaby says:

      02:33pm | 16/02/12

      Ben, if educated, hardworking people get rich, how come I am still working 16/7 at 68 because I can’t afford to live on a pension?  Oh yes, it was called the 1980s when I paid 60% income tax with the promise of a good pension, only to have the governments of the day squander the money and not put half of it into a pension fund, as they do elsewhere in the world.  I should have gone into politics, but it does not behoove me to lie.

    • Fred says:

      02:58pm | 16/02/12

      @Ben, yeah I’d say I’d be smart enough. Educated, hard working folks get rich do they? Tell that to the pharmacists who are on $20 an hour, about the same as a fork lift driver.

      There’s a reason why neo cons/liberals have so much power in the world, people like you putting faith in blind, simple philosophies.

    • Fred says:

      03:03pm | 16/02/12

      @Keith, most definitely most CEOs get their positions from a bit of luck. It’s all image, a strong machievellian streak, and a history of corporate prostitution. It also helps if you have a few useless degrees.

      This sort of talk has been going on for years and not one person has explained why CEOs get paid so much and what exactly they do that is so difficult.

      @The King, you can’t guarantee squat.

    • Reality says:

      11:11pm | 16/02/12

      Ya right on you are so right.
      If the Company is not doing well enough, the most ept thing is to start with pay cuts; and not to decimate the livelihoods of long serving contributors to the profit of the Company by jobs cut.
      The biggest burden financially to the Company is the Multi-million dollar Man so paid.
      He should lead by example like the good captain of the ship and take the first hefty pay cut and not sacking his contributors to the life-line of the Company.
      Don’t you all agree, people.
      The evil should not cast eye on the innocent and powerless in the first instance but as the last resort.
      Then only can we say there is justice.

    • Keith Hammersmith says:

      10:36am | 17/02/12

      @ Reality,  have you followed on with the union demands?  I don’t think they will accept any pay cuts…..

    • The King says:

      03:37pm | 17/02/12

      @ Fred
      I’d be willing to bet.
      Partially because airlines are bad businesses
      and partially because i’d bet against you

    • The King says:

      03:39pm | 17/02/12

      @ Fast Easy Reliable Dispensing
      Pharmacists get more than $20/hr min (PIA)
      and if they are any good, they get get far more than that.

    • SimonFromLakemba says:

      11:35am | 16/02/12

      Just a few things.

      1. Didn’t we pay a fuel surcharge in tickets to cover the increase in fuel?

      2. He has rocks in his head that the grounding was positive for Qantas image, maybe the company but not the image.

      3. They way the Qantas PR handled this union issue was awful and should be fired. Bad trending tweets, crappy info handed out. If they wanted to counter the unions claims there is a pretty easy way to do it. With facts and figures.

      4. Unfortunately for Joyce the rot of Qantas started a long time before he took over.

      5. In updating the fleet he is now going against virgin who have done that to theirs.

      The main problem with Qantas from a customers point of view is that they are so far behind when it comes to progression - fleets, food etc. So when they charge an extra $200 to go somewhere as a purchaser I see no justification in paying that extra money.

    • Stephen says:

      11:58am | 16/02/12

      The reason they have to charge $200 extra is because of the higher Aussie workers wages, increased Australian rent and offices compared to Asia.  DUH!  Once they move all the jobs they can to Asia like they should then they can compete with Singapore airlines and invest more into entertainment, better food and services then you’d fly them again, no risk of union strikes, cheaper flights and thats what everyone cares about any way.  Nobody buys Qantas tickets to be patriotic.

    • me says:

      11:59am | 16/02/12

      it cost extra because the filthy unions are lazy and greedy. Do you know how many breaks they get and how much money they get paid to do jobs that are very simple and easy?

    • JL says:

      12:30pm | 16/02/12

      Asian airlines are subsidised by governments. Australia is free market, globalisation mindest competing with Asian socialist nations that protect their industry and workers.  So we will never really compete, will we?

    • Fu says:

      02:09pm | 16/02/12

      @JL - Most of them are not subsidised by Governements; a fair few are owned by the Government but they are all expected to make commercial returns. Your argument is inherantly flawed; they have jobs and job security because they are competitive and cheap, efficient and hard working. It not rocket science to understand that cheap, efficient and hardworking is more competitive than expensive, slow and lazy.  Also Qantas has problems competiting with US and UK airlines too, so it is not limited to the asian air route markets.  When talking about cost; things will cost what they cost; which means sure Qantas could run the most expensive operation in the world; but who the hell would fly with them? The market inherantly sorts out inefficiency by making sure companies that do not adapt and change, die horrible deaths.

    • Macca says:

      02:24pm | 16/02/12

      Simon,
      1. yes, but I doubt it covers it

      2. You’re wrong. The average person flying Qantas is a business person flying between Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane or Perth (not Adelaide, nobody likes Adelaide, Penbo). Those customers fly Qantas because of years of frequent flyer miles, regularity of flights and safety. They also don’t pay, their companies do. Joyce ending the strike was essential for his key customer base. And he was succesful in winning back his market share.

      3. You sound suprised the bloke going for the ALP presidency won the battle for the 10 second soundbite on the news every night. Sounds like a hypocritical move to invest in your PR department when you’re an airline trying to cut costs, and not give into union wages demands at the same time.

      4. Any internationally competing company that was once run by the federal government, with a public sector mentality, is going to struggle, particularly when so many other international Airlines are partly nationalised.

      5. Updating the Fleet should reduce maintenance costs in the short to medium term. If the manufacturing has been quality, the decision will increase the companies margins. Ultimately it’s a gamble on Boeing and Airbus’ product.

    • SimonFromLakemba says:

      02:29pm | 16/02/12

      @All

      I was referring it back to food, service. I know basically every airline around the world is subsidised, I’m not stupid..

      I wouldn’t have a problem paying an extra $200 if it was as good as Virgin, but it hasn’t been so far.

    • SimonFromLakemba says:

      04:03pm | 16/02/12

      @Macca

      1. Agree

      2. You agreed with what I wrote so not sure what you are on about there.

      3. Again, you agreed that their PR was bad. All they had to do was release figures showing how much they paid there staff and demolished the Unions ‘sound bite’, but they didn’t. I stand by my claims.

      4. Was talking about Dixon, not the Government.

      5. Agree.

    • Andrew says:

      12:27am | 17/02/12

      It was one of the greatest and smartest moves of all times, if he didnt do it the unions would still be treatening strikes and would have dont so over christmas, what would that done to there base. Qantas customers needed certainty, the only way to get there was forced the union to negotiate, so he done the only think that would force this and grounded the fleet.

    • Angry_Of_Mayfair says:

      11:38am | 16/02/12

      Poor little Mr. Cranky! Didn’t get to play with the marbles the way HE wanted to! I can feel a big tantrum coming on.To be sure, to be sure.

    • Pazza says:

      11:45am | 16/02/12

      Yes it’s bad news for the laid off workers and yes the CEO gets paid a lot of money to make these decisions, but surely the long term survival of the airline is of most importance here?
      I wonder if the people complaining about this also shop around for the cheapest possible discount fare to Bali or Phuket rather than choosing QANTAS and Australian jobs?

    • Snake says:

      11:48am | 16/02/12

      The grounding was necessary. If not for image then at least to tell those halfwit unionists who is the boss. It was a great move, it empowered the company and taught the unions not to screw around asking for pay rises in a company that is barely turning a profit.

      If only more CEOs were like Joyce.

    • Rose says:

      01:50pm | 16/02/12

      It was a stupid move as it was clearly over the top and unnecessary. No one flies Qantas because of the price, they fly Qantas because they know it, they trust it and because they feel they will be getting a better service. Joyce blew that trust for Qantas out of the water, rightly or wrongly he went about it in such a way that he emphasised cost (to the airline) instead of safety (for the passenger).
      If he had half a PR brain that nightmare would never have happened, if he had half a negotiating brain he and the Unions would have been able to broker a solution. But no, his brain is all about cost cutting, and that has clearly hurt the brand!

    • Macca says:

      02:28pm | 16/02/12

      @Rose, it didn’t hurt the brand at all. Qantas’ domestic market share is back where it was prior to the strike. Business people who spend every morning flying up and down the Eastern Coast will still fly Qantas for the Frequent Flyers points.

    • John Dark says:

      02:50pm | 16/02/12

      ... who gave himself a $2 million raise then cried poor. THAT’S only part of why the man is regarded as scum. The trouble is, most other executives (and politicians) are just like him “Do as I say, not as I do”, telling everyone else to tighten their belts while their own snouts are firmly buried in the trough.

    • Andrew says:

      12:38am | 17/02/12

      jOhn Dark, the only problem is that he didnt give himself a payrise, he is actually getting paid less then last year (so he is tightening his belt), what was agreed to was a bonus if share prices reach a certain level, which you would have to imagine is looking prietty slim at the moment, also he doesnt decide who gets paid what, it was the board that agreed to give him the bonus. So maybe u and everyone else commenting about the payrise should get there facts straight. Rose it wont hurt them at all in the long run, but having workers strike over christmas and on and off for the next 2 years would have. Having a guarantee of no strikes for 2 years makes his actions well and truly worth it.

    • Stephen says:

      11:52am | 16/02/12

      Unions NEVER create jobs they only destroy them.  Asian airlines were allowed into Australian skys so we could have cheaper international fares.  These Asian airlines hire cheaper Asian workers to maintain their planes.  Qantas International is fighting a backwards fight, its playing the game with their hand tied behind their back.  They have this huge overly costly Aussie work force and can’t lower its costs to what the Asian airlines can.  They then beat Qantas on airline costs and take bigger and bigger market share till Qantas International is DEAD.  So the CEO of Qantas rightfully wants to fire some overpaid airline workers and make his business profitable for the long term so it will survive.  The Unions jump up and down saying “No no no you can’t make your business profitable to compete with the other airlines we will demand you give us all job security and threat strikes every week till you do.”  Thats what happend and Qantas is going to do what a business needs to do to survive and move jobs to Asia cause Australians are too highly paid for it to make business sense to Qantas to keep them here.  The unions caused HUGE bad PR for Qantas last year and ruined the great brand so millions of Aussies would choose Singapore airlines over Qantas now.  Great work unions.  I for one will NOT fly Qantas until they stop having union strike problems for a long time.  Its not worth the risk.  Many feel the same way and will avoid this airline now thanks to the unions and it will accellerate Aussie job losses.  I welcome the time when Qantas has moved most of its International operation off to Asia, its prices will be lower it can offer better services and lower costs.  High Aussie wages are killing jobs, businesses will adapt as they need to.

    • Carl Palmer says:

      12:12pm | 16/02/12

      The other factor to consider is that many of these airlines are subsidised by their respective governments.

      I think they will exit the international market and end up being just a domestic carrier.

    • Nat says:

      11:52am | 16/02/12

      I’ll happily run the airline. Perhaps Mr Joyce could try working with his staff instead of againt them?

    • Alan says:

      01:12pm | 16/02/12

      Spot on!!  You don’t motivate people by treating them like garbage.  It is the people who “do the work” that make a business, not the people who “talk about it”.  In most cases the grossly overpaid halfwit is told by the workers what the decision should be.  Having experience at a variety of levels in the business world, including the top job on a few occasions, it is obvious that checking the figures is useful, but without experience in the “physical” activities, knowing what the figures really mean is beyond most of the so-called CEO’s.  Most have a very short term view of the business - it gets them bigger bonuses.

    • Nan says:

      01:56pm | 16/02/12

      Maybe Mr Joyce can take a pay cut to help out as well and save some of the jobs being lost,

    • Paul says:

      01:59pm | 16/02/12

      If only the staff were willing to work with him.

    • Rose says:

      02:16pm | 16/02/12

      What would have made the staff confident that he was prepared to work with the? He made it perfectly clear that he didn’t want to negotiate in good faith so why should they treat him with more respect than he treats them?

    • Jim says:

      11:57am | 16/02/12

      Who’d run an airline?

      Anyone who doesn’t cut safety standards, maintenance, jobs, grounds an airline overnight and actually has a plan to both make an airline internationally competetive and profitable and still provide for Australian careers. And while having the full respect and support of their staff. The name John Borghetti comes to mind.

    • Andew says:

      01:55pm | 16/02/12

      Jim, the problem with your scenario is that the customers don’t allow him to do any of those things. In order to have the cash to do all those things he would have to raise ticket prices significantly but then all the passengers would jump on a budget airline becasue it was cheaper. Airlines are just a terrible commodity business. This is the reality.

    • Rhonda says:

      02:09pm | 16/02/12

      John Borghetti also has a workforce that is paid CONSIDERABLY less than Qantas staff, the reason for this is Virgin staff have been with the airline much less time and have accepted a much more reasonable wage and package, not like the majority of QANTAS staff who hate their job but hang around any way waiting for handouts and improved pay and conditions, which Virgin staff don’t have. Their unreasonable demands would be in place no matter who was running the airline

    • Luke says:

      11:59am | 16/02/12

      When discussing net profits made by Qantas, how about analysing the ground services, terminals, etc that Jetstar use - in some cases free of cost - and the impact that this has on “profitability” at Qantas?

      Yes structural change is needed, but so is greater transparency of the books/costs etc for a fair assessment. Headline journalism needs some credibility.

    • Luke says:

      11:59am | 16/02/12

      When discussing net profits made by Qantas, how about analysing the ground services, terminals, etc that Jetstar use - in some cases free of cost - and the impact that this has on “profitability” at Qantas?

      Yes structural change is needed, but so is greater transparency of the books/costs etc for a fair assessment. Headline journalism needs some credibility.

    • Craig says:

      12:02pm | 16/02/12

      So how many Union bosses will be sacked due to their failure to protect workers?

      Union bosses huge leaches on productivity. Employers give people jobs, Union bosses just have to ‘represent’ their ever shrinking base.

      If Union members were shareholders in Unions and Unions were treated as businesses, their entire leadership teams would have been sacked for destroying so much value in their Unions with declining memberships and influence.

      It is just as well the Union bosses are protected by each other and the political party they created. It provides a nice parachute option for them when they can no lower resist the calls of ‘failure’ on the Factory floor.

    • Alex says:

      01:34pm | 16/02/12

      Here here,
      How many union bosses lost their job after the ANSETT colapse, none, they just re focused on Qantas and its merger with Australian. Its well known that ANSETT had the best working conditions of any airline in the world thanks to the Unions but where did it get them…....reality check.  That qantas profit would not even buy a quater of a 737 BTW

    • Gary B says:

      12:04pm | 16/02/12

      This is exactly what happens when Unions have too much power and are supported by the Government.

      Sure you can temporarily bring big business to it’s knees…..but it’s always going to bite you in the end.

      Short sighted and out of touch with reality….Unions in general.

    • Voice from the north says:

      12:06pm | 16/02/12

      I remember the former boss of Ansett saying that it was a good airline but a terrible business. I reckon that’s true of all airlines. I was a travel agent for 10 years until 2001. Prices are lower now for most fares than they were in the 1990s. No business can do well in that environment! Very people really consider the amount of capital invested in an airline to produce such a relatively small profit. I don’t work for Qantas, but I feel a bit sad when you get the kneejerk hatred that small-minded people seem to unleash on that particular company. It’s a very ignorant perspective IMO!

    • Buzz says:

      04:07pm | 17/02/12

      Agreed, a terrible business indeed. Ansett (and qantas) survived on Govt handouts that stopped when AIRNZ was forced to buy Ansett as part of the C.E.R. deal with NZ - the part Australia decided to change the rules late in the game. “if Thou wishes to fly internally in Austtalia thou must must buy an Australian Airline.” they spoketh. Thus Ansett was flogged off (as the Australian Govt decided to back Qantas)  to Air NZ who couldnt keep supporting a failing airline and thus Ansett when down the dunny as it was unsustainable in the first place. smile

    • Mitch says:

      12:19pm | 16/02/12

      Problem in Australia is that we are a stubborn bunch. unions push workers into believing that unless they get everything they want- and damn the consequences in getting it-then the company are the bad guys. talk to anybody in the car mfg industry to undertand that the process just become more efficient and technology allows us to be more efficient. I bet if those workers held a whack of stock in QF they would be demanding to know why their profits arent better.

    • stephen says:

      12:19pm | 16/02/12

      Ignorance is bliss!  Every Australian should travel to Asia and see what coming to hit us like a hole in the head, in the way of well run low cost services in every field, not just airlines.

      Go to a nowhere’s ville regional Vietnamese airport e.g. Da Nang and count the different airlines.  These countries are on the prosperity march my friends.

      Too many Australians are keen to harvest the fruits of competition without accepting the consequences of doing so are high cost companies in an internaitonal market like Qantas are doomed I say DOOMED.

    • Ray Sanderson says:

      12:49pm | 16/02/12

      In 1986, when I was in the RAAF, I was part of a group that visited Qantas jet base in Sydney and was briefed by senior executives about the airline. I recall their chief financial officer telling us that if you wanted to invest in a risk free company, you wouldn’t pick an airline, particularly an international one. He said you have to invest billions and net return on that was about 2% per annum. You can get 6% at present leaving it in the bank. Costs a killing QF. For example, a senior flight steward on QF would get about $80,000 a year - on Virgin it’s about half that. Qantas has to make big changes or it will disappear forever.

    • Mark G says:

      12:52pm | 16/02/12

      Ant,

      There is even an excellent example in Australia’s history of an airline that fails to evolve to its market and bows to union demands to maintain jobs. It was called ANSETT. If you study the demise of Australia’s other great airline you will see what happens when airlines don’t make hard decision. When airlines choose to keep antiquated aircraft types and inefficient maintenance lines going for too long just to keep the unions happy. What happens when an airline refused to respond to is competition. When an airline ceases to be a responsible business and focuses too much on employee entitlements. The reality is the days of the luxury government regulated two airline system are well and truly gone. Airlines are as much a free market business as any other company. You adapt and restructure or you die. ANSETT should have been a lesson for the unions and their demands. Unfortunately many in the union movements have a short memory and an even shorter attention span.

    • Matt says:

      11:36am | 17/02/12

      Like. yes the current economic restructuring in Australia is a good thing.. Mining Boom will not last forever..Aust socialist economy is so dependant on WA/QLD mining $ it is fraught with long term danger. But at least some of our top companies have the foresight to ignore emotive politics and make the hard short term decisions. Politicians get votes by appeal to emotions, businesses get money by responding to the facts.

    • David McGrath says:

      12:56pm | 16/02/12

      Who do you fly with Anthony ,must be Qantas with free tickets after that sob story on behalf of the poor hard done Alan Joyce,why dont you go around and lend him your shoulder so he can have a big cry then you give him a hug and reassure him he will still be a millionaire tomorrow.

    • Bazza says:

      01:12pm | 16/02/12

      Ant, you say he displayed gross arrogance when he grounded the fleet. What experience are you basing that statement on? you haven’t managed a worthwhile business that would give you the “where with all” to make a such a judgement. Maybe you should stick to only judging other journo’s. Unions, under Hawke and Keating may have phased out sabatage but it is coming back in spades under Gillard and Shorten.

    • Ben says:

      01:30pm | 16/02/12

      Your quote that begins the article is very interesting.
      Your statement is exactly why we should be prioritising and spending money on engineering excellence and pilot standards.
      A plane is not like doing maintenance on a car - even though Joyce would have you believe that is the case - when things go wrong on a plane you are over 30 thousand feet in the air.
      For this very reason pilot training and standards must be maintained at better than worlds best practice, they are the people who save your life when things go wrong. Need evidence look at Air France, Garuda even Singapore to name a few.
      Joyce should wake up in a cold sweat every morning as his actions will result at some point in the next ten years to an incident which will be of his own making, through the reduction in expertise and training and for turning Qantas away from maintaining BETTER than worlds best practice and settling for the dumbing down to “world best practice”
      These are airplanes not cars.

    • Richard says:

      01:52pm | 16/02/12

      You better believe it. If things go really wrong, it is a long way down !!!

    • Ben says:

      01:30pm | 16/02/12

      Your quote that begins the article is very interesting.
      Your statement is exactly why we should be prioritising and spending money on engineering excellence and pilot standards.
      A plane is not like doing maintenance on a car - even though Joyce would have you believe that is the case - when things go wrong on a plane you are over 30 thousand feet in the air.
      For this very reason pilot training and standards must be maintained at better than worlds best practice, they are the people who save your life when things go wrong. Need evidence look at Air France, Garuda even Singapore to name a few.
      Joyce should wake up in a cold sweat every morning as his actions will result at some point in the next ten years to an incident which will be of his own making, through the reduction in expertise and training and for turning Qantas away from maintaining BETTER than worlds best practice and settling for the dumbing down to “world best practice”
      These are airplanes not cars.

    • QFF says:

      01:55pm | 16/02/12

      I would run an airline, the difference is I would not run it into the ground.

    • ReJoyce when he quits says:

      02:18pm | 16/02/12

      smile You win the internet today for understanding who actually destroyed Qantas.

      Seen many pretending unions somehow are responsible for Joyce incompetence and are magically running Qantas down for him behind the scenes.
      Most of them don’t even realize that unions are the reason they actually get get paid properly for going to work.

      Union haters - go to China and work and see what life is like without them.
      Unions are the only difference between our good conditions and their bad conditions.
      Most of the Hypocrites probably even take lunch breaks during their work day - a union won condition they accept and use to make up lies on the internet about how unions are bad. Is that irony?

    • Macca says:

      02:30pm | 16/02/12

      Is Joyce running his Airline into the ground by making profits?

      You silly goose.

    • John F says:

      02:01pm | 16/02/12

      The real obsenity is the amount of money banks are making, if they make 50 Billion this year they expect the same or better next year. The are a moraly bankrupt business where profit comes before all else. They make too much money to easily. Didnt someone say that competion would bring us better banking ? Or maybe they were talking about privatising electricity etc etc

    • Numbers says:

      02:03pm | 16/02/12

      Unfortunately, QANTAS is going the way of many a fine Australian companies. Like the Australian Car industry it will be either non-existant in 10 years, or will be owned by a foreign co. like everything else Australian. Companies really need to ‘reinvent’ themselves to find ways to stay competitive/profitable just to survive, unless of course you are a major back earning billions.

    • Ryan says:

      02:03pm | 16/02/12

      Anthony Sharwood, coming to a Qantas Chairman’s Lounge near you!

    • Andrew says:

      02:06pm | 16/02/12

      Didn’t they acually make $200,000,000 for the 12 months? Still not to bad considering. You need to look at 12 months not just 6.

    • Macca says:

      02:09pm | 16/02/12

      Even with a generous knowledge of Australia’s history of Industrial Relations and Workplace Law, I am continually amazed at the cut-throat tall-poppy syndrome amongst Australians

      A bloke at work (who of course, wasn’t working, he was reading the paper) commented to me that it must be easy at the top (he was reading our companies’ financial results, including the CEOs salary). I asked him if he’d like a job where you would be paid a fifth of your predecessor, and could be fined and jailed if a lazy supervisor failed to put an effective safety procedure in place.

      Alan Joyce has never asked for sympathy or respect. Yet people still mock him.

      Any honest bastard would recognise running an airline is increadibly difficult, and that Australia’s wages, in comparison to the rest of the world, make that challenge even greater.

      Let’s be honest about this, if Qantas does not become more competitive over the next decade, it won’t be here. Job losses are always disappointing, but 500 lossed this year could save thousands in years to come.

    • Ollie says:

      02:18pm | 16/02/12

      For me its petty strait forward, consumers dictate a competitive market in which prices are driven downward. Operating costs and fuel continue to increase and just to get the party really going there are more competitors, on the same routes, with lower overhead and hence they are more competitive. Options - We can keep as many employed at a rate which is far higher than any other nation in our region, both for perks and salary and then go two directions, keep tickets uncompetitive and keep our margin but sales volume will suffer resulting in job losses OR keep competitive, decrease our margins and run a business into the red, resulting in job losses. Overheads have to go down…fact… Get over it people…Either way it seems like a big price to pay for some rather lavish union requests… people need to think further than their own back pockets…

    • Andrew says:

      02:18pm | 16/02/12

      And for and even more damnig look Ant, you should have a look at where the profit is coming from. Strip off the frequent Flyer business and Qantas would probably never see a profit again.

      Did they announce a dividend? If they did, they shouldn’t, free cash flow was negative so they would have had to probably borrow more money to pay it.

    • Ashley says:

      02:31pm | 16/02/12

      And when a plane does eventually drop out of the sky and several hundred people plunge to their doom - Joyce will be able to turn to camera and say “acceptable business loss - take it up with your insurer”.  Maintaining our aircraft overseas is absolutely not the answer - it strips an industry of skilled workers and exports perfectly good “value” to places where the work is not carried out properly. I would be prepared to bet that there is not an aircraft in the entire QANTAS fleet that would actually pass a proper top-down inspection - not one.

    • Confused Fuddy Duddy says:

      03:19pm | 16/02/12

      So Ashley, what are you trying to say?
      “Maintaining our aircraft overseas is absolutely not the answer” Your implication is because the standard of maintenance will suffer.
      Or
      “there is not an aircraft in the entire QANTAS fleet that would actually pass a proper top-down inspection - not one” Implying that the maintenance standard is currently substandard, Even on the aircraft maintained in Australia.
      Where are you suggesting the maintenance be performed?
      Oh by the way - “our aircraft ” - they are not our aircraft, They are not your aircraft, they are their aicraft. Apologies if you are a QAN stock holder, I’m guessing not though.

    • Paul says:

      03:27pm | 16/02/12

      Why rob a bank when you could be an executive and get whatever you like.

    • Oswald Douglas says:

      03:41pm | 16/02/12

      Qantas should get back to being a good airline instead of just pissing people off. It could double it’s business out of Australia if it would only pay it’s travel agents a decent commission, the percentage is lower than a newsagent gets on a lottery ticket.  Employ cabin staff out of Singapore where everybody wants a job and is happy to SMILE to keep it. The Australian public in the main would prefer to fly Qantas but it has to be competitive, the fuel cost is not the problem as Jetstar fares have shown.
      There are many costly procedures in Qantas that actually don’t gain any net benefit after implementation, like charging $20 for a seat assignment, are you a first rate airline or a Ryan Air? And there are many more examples. Stop micro managing the little things and see the big picture, it extends past the short term share price and this year’s salary or number of workers.

    • marley says:

      04:02pm | 16/02/12

      @OswaldDouglas - the wages bill for Qantas is not a “little thing.”  Neither are the limitations of being at the end of the line instead of being in a “hub” like Bangkok or Singapore.  Qantas is never going to be able to compete on quality of service with the Asian airlines, so it had damn well better be competitive on price.

    • thatmosis says:

      03:49pm | 16/02/12

      Im loving this, I said to everybody during the industial trouble QANTAS was having last year the the Unions may win this time but wait until the second shoe drops and drop it has.
        QANTAS now has the opportunity to get rid of 450 pesky Unionists at a blow and probably more to come and the Unions are crying foul. Tough titty. They held out for more money and less productivity and got it but whats the cost now, do you silly people in the Union think the Union bosses are going to stand up for you when their jobs for the moment are safe. They dont really give a damn about the rank and file just their feather bed wages for leading Australia down the path of ruin.
        How long before the car industry, especially GMH, start to shed jobs when they see how easy it is, waiting for that day so I can have another gloat.

    • Scott Cole says:

      04:32pm | 16/02/12

      Anthony wrote “Joyce is displaying gross arrogance when he says the grounding was necessary and that the response was positive. It was a hugely disruptive ploy bordering on the sort of sabotage the union movement phased out years ago.”
      Unfortunately that kind of sabotage wasn’t phased out, it was alive and kicking Qantas to death, exaclty as union leaders said they intended to! Wasn’t the quote from one of them that they “were going to burn Qantas slowly” The rolling strikes being announced, than called off after Qantas had cancelled and re-scheduled everything cost the unionised workforce nothing, but the airline hugely. Lets not forget who was actually doing the sabotage.

    • kev says:

      05:53pm | 16/02/12

      @ReJoyce when he quits - There’s a massive difference between what is reasonable and what is over the top in regards to pay and conditions. The incessant union demands for generous pay rises and job perks have led to a workforce that is lazy, unproductive and one that wants big pay packets for doing very little. It has also created a workforce that is nothing but precious and carries on like every single wage demand must be met like it is their birthright.

      If you are like some idiots who justify higher pay packets because of the higher cost of living in Australia then think again. Higher wages have a ripple effect on the entire economy because no company is going to absorb it and nor should they which means we end up paying more for everything. Yeah it’s probably working here than in China but at least in China workers there have an attitude of getting the job done whereas here workers look for every excuse to walk off the job.

    • stephen says:

      10:16pm | 16/02/12

      They’ve got the wrong planes.
      Airbus are a bomb, and the cracks are getting bigger.
      What Qantas, under their previous CEO, should have bought was the Boeing Dreamliner.
      It is cheaper on fuel and is very easy to land on the smaller airstrips in Asia.
      China is where our market is, and this plane is ideal for relatively short fast hauls.

      Big mistake, and I think it is Qantas’s worst, but perhaps the tourism authorities in Oz could come to an arrangement, or deals perhaps, on travel from Asian countries with accommodation providers ?

    • SME owner of Bunbury says:

      11:16pm | 16/02/12

      MMM lets pay somebody 80K a year NOT to work in the rain or during storms!
      Lets pay a catering worker:; ie somebody whop loads foil trays nto a steam oven 60K NOT to work in the rain.
      No wonder they are going broke when all of their competotors DO do that kind of work regardless of weather conditions.
      Oh, and one for the inane safety crap, when is the last time a non qantas flght fell out of the sky?
      I fly Qantas regularly cos they fly when I want to fly yet SA and most other carriers dont.
      The safety argument is a bullshit argument simply because the TWU & others can use that as a relatively poor excuse to stop work.
      They arent the only union to use this argument and good om em for securing good pay deals in the past but the good times are disappearing and they cant see it and thats a shame!
      Ironic that they all thought Howard was going to Kill them but in reality the world of business will do to the unions what workchoices didnt.
      On that question now that we have a federal labor govt, who are the unions goingt o rail against now!
      Perhaps the unions of this country should be asking: What can we do to help instead what do we want!

    • MrEd says:

      06:10am | 17/02/12

      Pretty hard to make a profit when you take your planes out of the sky.

      Shareholders with empty wallets should be taking him to task for his petty petulant act of taking his bat and ball home and permanently damaging the Qantas brand.

    • Terry says:

      06:33am | 17/02/12

      One industry is controlled by the Unions and one is not plus it has to compete on the international scene and Australia is very expensive.

    • Jay says:

      07:10am | 17/02/12

      Oh poor little Alan Joyce. How does he survive on his million dollar bonus?
      What does he have to do for it? Sack workers and relocate them to Asia.
      More flight hours equates to less maintenance???? I am sure all travellers feel very confident with this philosophy. Meanwhile QANTAS planes have cracks in their wings which we are told is normal and there is no problem. QANTAS has avoided a lot of bullets but if you keep playing Russian Roulette the gun will go off. There will be a disaster and then the truth will come out. Joyce will ofcourse feign shock as he takes his money and runs home to Ireland to avoid the scrutiny that will result, but the families of the dead will have to live with it for the rest of their lives. We can all watch it one day on Air Crash Investigations I am comforted to know that Alan’s husband at least received a very nice Valentine Day’s present.

    • Joe says:

      07:22am | 17/02/12

      If the airlines and big banks can lay off so many staff and still make a profit. doesn’t it meant that they have been employing too many staff for too long.
      Does anyone see it like this or its just only me?
      I guess its time to wake up that you go to work, you put in a good days work and you are not at work to socialise. I have seen too many employee wasting time at work.

    • Leave joyce alone says:

      08:59am | 17/02/12

      Sharwood you are showing gross disrespect to a person who is employed to keep a business viable. You comment “Joyce is displaying gross arrogance ... ” is way off the mark. I suspect you have never been run or been in charge of anything other than collecting your pay and spending it at the bottleshop and supermarket. Like most journalists your research and article is very shallow and shows a lack of research on the issue. If you want to write a story about the economic success of the banks and the dire straights of the ailrines and the aggressive union conditions under which they operate, then do so - play the ball and not the man. Its a pity most journalist enagage the pen before they engae the brain when they write articles such as this. Journalism of late shows an appararnnt lack of journaistic skill and integretywhen writing commentry articles.

    • PaxUs says:

      12:14pm | 17/02/12

      Change the name to ‘Air Eco Refugee’ and run cheap, direct flights from the nations of exodus to Indonesia and you’ll make a killing.  Mr. Joyce can cut a deal with SERCO over the boat transportation to Australia.  Tickets can come with the SERCO boat trip and advertising promotions can begin with our Governments generous handouts of $10,000 packages for ‘clients’ upon arrival.

    • Kipling says:

      12:45pm | 17/02/12

      So, laying off staff will not improve profits, it might reduce overheads. Of course, in the QANTAS case that reduction will only hold til a plane falls out of the sky due to poor maintenance…

      Seems a bit more a revenge move for having the temrity to take action against a company the employees seeminlgy knew did not have their interests at heart.

      Loss of profits surely must be the fault of the CEO, after all, increased profits are apparently all the doings of a CEO, yet this bloke got a rise.

      I don’t feel sorry for him, in fact, I reckon one of my dogs could do his job better than he does….

    • PaxUs says:

      01:59pm | 17/02/12

      Re-Joyce the end is near!  I agree with Kipling 01:45pm, the loss of profits blame has to be directed squarely at Mr. Joyce the CEO.  He knew exactly what he was getting into when he took on the job and the bonus payments.  Whining about existing Government sale conditions, unhappy employees and the global economy, are the jobs of politician’s who will blame anyone rather than themselves, not a ‘think outside of the box’ CEO.  Again I agree with Kipling, this Irish git is no one special and QANTAS have been doing poorly ever since his appointment.  If I was a major shareholder, I’d be questioning this appointment.  It’s only a matter of time before a QANT-ASH jet has a serious accident and it will be back to Ireland and Aer Lingus if they’d take him back, which is highly doubtful.

    • Amazed says:

      02:15pm | 17/02/12

      QANTAS’s main problem is the perceived need to pay shareholders dividends. Then there are all the middle managers that are not required for an airline to run. QANTAS need a huge top down reorganisation and you may be able to change the ratio of cheifs to indians. Joyce should be the first to go.

    • Stuart says:

      04:07pm | 17/02/12

      I can’t imagine that any banker would want to run an airline or any other company.Not many other directors would get the benefits these guys get for ripping us off except polititions.

 

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