Most of you political junkies might skip over this piece because it doesn’t involve a hard-edged analysis of who-hates-who in the ALP or speculation about where numbers will fall at 10am this morning. The reason I’m not writing that is because for me, it’s not the main game.

Should these auto-workers have to worry about a conflict of personality at the top?

Despite the myths about the influence of unions on the Labor caucus, what really motivates me and my colleagues is representing Australia’s workers and improving their lives, regardless of who runs the government.

In the end the decision will be made by 103 elected Labor members of Parliament. I don’t envy their position. The level of internal anger, now spilling into the public arena, has made it harder for Labor to win the next election. The jibe “if you can’t govern yourselves, how can you govern the county?” is one of the hardest for any political party to shake. The 90 per cent of the population that is too busy to pay more than casual attention to politics sees the unholy mess the ALP is in and turns away.

Regardless of what happens today, what everyone I talk to really wants is for the Labor Party to turn its full focus away from ego-driven politics to the concerns of ordinary Australians.

In the end while leadership is important, it’s the policy, stupid.

The union movement will work with whoever leads the Labor Party to deliver our program to improve the lives and working conditions of Australian workers.

There is a massive contrast between the spectacle transfixing Canberra insiders and what I’m hearing as I travel round the country. Most people are baffled and disappointed at their leaders and feel their concerns are not being listened to.

There is little support for an Abbott Government, but we run the risk of Tony Abbott slipping into Government like speed skater Steven Bradbury’s Winter Olympics gold medal – untested and unexamined – if Labor’s infighting continues.

Here are a few thoughts on what a Labor Government could and should be doing.

The rise in insecure work is continuing unabated across Australia. 40 per cent of workers are on some form of insecure work such as casual employment or contracts.

The inquiry into the issue chaired by former Deputy Prime Minister Brian Howe is hearing of the stress and despair of people who are unable to find regular work, and the damage this does to their ability to plan their lives, raise a family or buy a home.

This is no longer limited to seasonal work or hospitality, as it was 20 years ago, but is common for jobs across Australia including teachers, public servants and blue-collar workers.

Workers should not be considered just as cogs in the economic machine; they have the right to a work environment that allows them to live secure lives.

The share of our economy that is corporate profits has risen consistently over recent decades, while wages have stagnated.

The Fair Work Act secures the right of workers to bargain to get a share of the profits generated by the economy. There are many powerful voices pushing to wind back workers’ power to bargain. We are being told that things like penalty rates are bad for productivity and cannot be afforded by business.

Real productivity is the result of investment in better equipment or training. Basically using workers in a smarter way, not paying them less.

During the economic boom in the first part of this century too many businesses took their foot off the productivity pedal. Profits were up and there was no incentive to invest in the business to improve its productivity.

Now that profits are down, businesses are blaming unions and running to the government for help.

Labor needs to keep the rights of workers to a decent wage and fair conditions front and centre when it makes policy. The support for the landmark equal pay case for community sector workers is one area where this government has got it right.

We need to keep building the infrastructure we need for the future. The NBN is a great idea and it needs to be matched by investments in road, rail and ports that make Australia’s agriculture and manufacturing industries competitive on the world market.

We need to increase funding to schools and hospitals. These are services that workers rely on to ensure the kids reach their potential and to be there in case of a medical emergency.

Two weeks ago the Government finally released the Gonski Review into school funding in Australia, which recommended an extra $5 billion in funding for schools.

It does not take four years to reach the conclusion that more money could go to schools.

Adequate funding for schools will improve the opportunities for future generations of Australians.

The reason I find Labor’s current upheaval so distressing is that it means that no political party is out there arguing for workers’ rights, a strong safety net and investment in public assets.

Instead a vacuum has been created which is being filled by business groups who want to run an anti-union and anti-worker line.

There are many business leaders who are happy to work within the current system, but they are drowned out by a concerted attack on Labor’s reforms, on unions and on the Australian workforce.

We had Toyota’s Max Yasuda complaining that 30 per cent of his workforce was taking sickies – if true (and I am sceptical) surely more of a reflection on Toyota’s staff management than on workplace laws.

We had Transport and Tourism Forum chief executive John Lee saying that Australians “don’t want to get out there and clean toilets or serve people because they think that is all beneath them”. Tell that to the thousands of Australians working minimum wage jobs in hospitality.

Don Meij from Domino’s Pizza complaining that a delivery driver was earning a lavish $160 for an eight-hour shift – at a time when Domino’s is being investigated for underpaying its workers.

These are just concrete examples of the broader efforts by groups that want miners to pay less tax, banks to make bigger profits and for the workplace “flexibility” that is code for forcing workers to work longer hours.

The simple premise of these business groups is that what is good for their profits is good for Australia. Forget fairness, forget work/life balance just look at the bottom line.

Business has a right to put its views, but we need a government with the strength to stand up to the pressures imposed by the big end of town and make decisions that are genuinely in the national interest.

Labor’s internal squabbling has been damaging for the party. But my biggest fear is that it will end up damaging Australia by handing us a Tony Abbott Government.

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47 comments

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    • jase! says:

      05:00am | 27/02/12

      please please please, before referencing Steven Bradbury again please actually do some research in to him, his career, and the 94 Olympics.  The Gold in 2002 was fair payback by the gods for what had happened in previous games

    • C1 says:

      06:27am | 27/02/12

      @Jase,

      I totally agree with you regarding Bradbury. He and his family played a huge role in Ice Skating their whole lives, he won many championships and at the time of his race ran the numbers that at least one of his competitors (due to their age and impetuousness) would come a cropper. I do not think even he guessed at the final outcome, but there was more to that race than we think.

      Anyway Ged what a short memory you have. Abbott has already proven himself in government and not that long ago. You just choose to ignore that small aspect.

    • Bertrand says:

      05:47am | 27/02/12

      How much of the rise in insecure employment comes from the rise of inflexible full time employment contracts?

    • acotrel says:

      06:24am | 27/02/12

      ‘Real productivity is the result of investment in better equipment or training. Basically using workers in a smarter way, not paying them less.’

      Fanciful thinking - it’s never gonna happen.  ‘As it was, so it ever shall be’  ?

      What does ‘more flexible working arrangements’ mean ?  Sounds like bullshit talk for ’ better exploitation of workers’ !
      We’d be better to pass a law bringing back slavery, then just doing it by inches.  We could have dormitories alongside factories, and pay workers by providing food and clothing. Or they could sleep under their work benchs as they do in India?

    • Jane2 says:

      08:05am | 27/02/12

      Except Acrotel, “flexible” workers have higher hourly rates than fixed.

      Many of the people I know who do contract work wouldnt trade it for the certainty of a permanent job as it would mean a pay cut and a lose of the flexibility that they also love. They can fit their hours nicely in around family duties (instead of the normal conflict) and as long as they produce the work required everyone is happy.

      Compare that to a permanent employee, you work the hours the boss decrees whether it is convenient for your lifestyle or not and you can take almost as long as you like to produce anything because its very hard for the boss to fire you.

      For the lazy or those that love certainty of pay over all else permanent is the way to go, for the energetic and the ambitious contracting is the better option.

    • Borderer says:

      09:10am | 27/02/12

      Acotrel
      Explosive ranting detracts from any real value in the debate, please give a more thought out response.
      You obviously have no experience in construction, if you do you would be exposing yourself as a union hack by that statement. The way it is currently the flexibility in employment contracts are non-existant, you can’t negotiate, you are told what you can pay your staff and how, if you don’t like it , expect a strike.

    • SteveKAG says:

      06:19am | 27/02/12

      “There is little support for an Abbott Government”

      Isn’t Labor holding a minority government handed to them by greedy, media hungry independents and power mad Greens?
      I think Abbott clearly and decisevly beat Gillard last time, he won the popular vote by far but that is not how out government is formed.
      How can you possilby even sit there with a straight face and say you will work with whichever party is in power at the time when you make left wing biased comments like that.

      I agree though that this government should have more of a focus on job saving than the current debacle we are seeing, maybe getting those whinging, overpaid nurses back to work is a good start!

    • TChong says:

      07:01am | 27/02/12

      overpaid nurses ?
      in Oz , its not the doctors who tend the patients, give out the medications, or operate life support systems, it is nurses.
      nurses, can literally be the ones keeping you,or me alive , should misfortune befall us.

    • Tator says:

      09:35am | 27/02/12

      Hoisted by his own Petard,
      Wilie Mac, that link clearly shows that if you add up the parties that make up the Coalition, ie the Liberals, Nationals, the Liberal National Party of Queensland and the Country Liberals, you get 5408630 votes compared to the ALP which got 4711363 votes or a primary vote difference of 697267 in favour of the Coalition.  You are clearly under the misunderstanding that the Coalition is basically the Liberals and Nationals but forgot about the LNP and Country Liberals who are also formally aligned with the Coalition.  So there is no telling of blatant lies.

    • SteveKAG says:

      09:45am | 27/02/12

      @Willie Mac - Nice try but it is you who is being a bit wiley…...

      If you take in the fully alligned coalition of;
      Liberal Party
      National Party
      LNP of QLD you get 43.31% of the vote.  These are once again fully alligned coalition…......in other words you know before you go into vote that you are voting for the coalition of which Tony Abbott is head.

      The ALP was 37.99% of the vote, the are not an alligned (or were not at the election) a coaliton…..as far as i am aware it is just preferences that the greens can and do give to whomever they choose….

      So once again Julia Gillard 37.99%, Tony Abbott 43.31%.

    • stevem says:

      10:26am | 27/02/12

      I believe the author when she claims she sees little support for an Abbott government. Wherever she goes she speaks only to other union hacks. Amongst here limited circle there would be little support for an Abbott; that is not representative of the wider community though.

    • M says:

      11:12am | 27/02/12

      Registered Nurses earn 70k a year. More than enough imo.

    • SimonFromLakemba says:

      02:15pm | 27/02/12

      M

      My mums a registered Nurse and earns no where near that, not sure where your figures are from.

    • James1 says:

      02:59pm | 27/02/12

      Tator and Steve, you are referring to primary votes, which is not the basis on which the popular vote is calculated.  The popular vote is calculated after preferences, and the ALP won that with a very, very slim majority at the last election.

      I suggest, before arguing with people online, you discover the difference between the words “primary” and “popular”, and how these different things apply in the context of the Australian electoral system.

      The facts are as follows: at the 2010 election, the Coalition scored a much higher primary vote than did the ALP, but after preferences were distributed the ALP won the popular vote with 50.12% (or 6,216,445 votes) to the Coalition’s 49.88% (or 6,185,918 votes).

      In other words, WIllie Mac is factually correct.  It doesn’t make this government any better, but he is correct nonetheless, and Steve was incorrect when he said the Coalition won the popular vote.  Steve should have said that they got more of the primary vote, as this would have been correct.

    • Tator says:

      09:32pm | 27/02/12

      James,
      I wouldn’t consider the TPP vote as the popular vote.  This is because in our electoral system that preference could be determined from voters 2nd to last preference.  Therefore primary vote figures are more accurate figure to judge popularity from as it is an indication of what people really want and not an indication of what people can tolerate.

    • year of the dragon says:

      07:32am | 28/02/12

      SimonFromLakemba says: 03:15pm | 27/02/12

      “My mums a registered Nurse and earns no where near that, not sure where your figures are from.”

      He probably means the full-time wage. Nursing is one of those jobs where flexible and part-time work is very easy to find.

      My wife is a registered nurse and has been for over 25 years. This figure is absolutely accurate.

      In fact, depending on how senior a nurse becomes they have the opportunity to earn significantly more. Just like any other job, vocation, trade or profession really.

    • Kipling says:

      06:24am | 27/02/12

      Steven Bradbury was a great example! Regardless of “previous Olympics” etc, in said race he was running pretty much last with no hope, then the entire field crumbled in a crash and he breezed over the line uncontested….

      How can you not get the apt application of this analogy? It is dead simple Jase.

      The Labor sell out to self, as this over reported hissy fit event is, has, as Ged pointed out, let the working Australian’s down. Although I would argue it is merely one of many straws breaking the camel’s back. Labor has not been loyal or faithful to the Austalian workforce in any meaningful way for some time now.

      The union movement also runs the very same risk presently of failing to be loyal at grass roots level. One particular Union I know of has put so much effort and resource into a Wage case that it has failed to work on other important issues affecting its members. That said, well done, wage rise to an equatable level has been won and will be rolled out over the next 8 (yes that’s right 8 years) years. As a member I dare say I would not be holding my breath to see the financial result of this.

      Both Labor and (for my money) the Union movement need to step back quite a distance and genuinely allow workers to raise their own genuine issues and concerns about the “work/life” balance. Further, both these movements in particular need to be avid advocates and facilitators of improved education for ALL Australian’s, but, not just standard three Rs education. Political and Work based education needs to be picked up substantially.

      Poor union representation and, more importantly, membership comes from ignorance about what union membership really means, or at least should mean… Our current political non representationa also comes about from the nations distinct political illiteracy.

      It would seem that Labor, Liberal, the Unions and the media have ALL been complicit in the shaping of the current level of disinterest demonstrated daily in our society with regards to our political power, rights and work entitlements.

      Employers after all are not obliged to look out for individuals, protect their rights or at the thin edge even their well being (despite the apparent work place safety laws). Sadly we have been de educated en masse to believe the Union is a body that is meant to do “stuff” for us and that we have to just cop what an employer does to us.

    • Macca says:

      06:40am | 27/02/12

      To say wages have stagnated is a complete lie. Wages have risen above inflation for the past 20 years of enterprise bargaining, a system created and championed by the very organization Ged now heads.

      A more interesting comparison would be to see how wages have risen compared to business’ return on investment, which, apart for a boom
      During the early 00’s has been challenging throughout the period of enterprise bargaining.

      Ged also praises the low-paid ruling in the caring industry, a decision that is completely incongruous with the system of enterprise bargaining that she promotes.

      Typical of the union movement, her arguments are completely illogical and untrue.

    • AdamC says:

      09:05am | 27/02/12

      Macca, I suspect the general increase in real wages in recent decades is the reason Ged and her henchmen are so fixated on ‘insecure’ work. And to unionists, with very set worldviews, all non-permanent, non full-time employment relationships are the same. To Ged, someone casully employed, on low pay, by an employer at the bottom end of the hospitality industry (and who probably doesn’t receive award loadings or minimum pay rates) is the same as a skilled, self-employed carpenter earning much more than the relevant award.

      You would think someone like Ged would be much more concerned by the former situation than the latter. But, for unions, actual working conditions don’t matter, they care only for their own union power, as this article amply demonstrates.

    • Macca says:

      06:44am | 27/02/12

      Toyota is one of the most researched and studied companies, particularly it’s management and manufacturing philosophies.

      Max Tosada has been a huge advocate for keeping jobs in Australia, despite his own personal mobility.

      His view on absenteeism is perfectly adequate and consistent with a Japanese view of lean manufacturing.

    • Daniel says:

      07:25am | 27/02/12

      Policy wise If you look at Labor they really dont represent workers. They just take money off unions who try and represent workers thats all. They are so detached from working class politics now. The only party that looks after workers now is the Australian Greens. Anyone with any brains could see that and would be voting 1 Greens.

    • Tubesteak says:

      07:47am | 27/02/12

      Workers are a cog in the economic machine. No-one has a right to a secure life. It is something you have to earn by proving your worth and making yourself worthy. Instead of going for low-hanging fruit in blue-collar jobs, work yourself up the ladder. Heck, maybe stop being an employee and start your own business. Stop being the played and become a playa!

    • Emma says:

      11:04am | 01/03/12

      So you’re saying exploit or be exploited? Well thanks very much for your contribution, but NO THANKS!

    • Joel B1 says:

      07:49am | 27/02/12

      I hope the unions are sick to their back-teeth.

      The union way is corrupt, divisive,undemocratic, despotic, violent and demeaning. And that’s exactly what the unions have infected the ALP with.

      So, thanks for nothing unions.

    • marley says:

      07:58am | 27/02/12

      I think Ged is being more than a little disingenuous in trying to distance the union movement from the conniptions going on in the ALP at the moment.  The unions are key to the funding, structure and distribution of power within the ALP;  they have been a training ground for many of the senior ALP politicians and provide their power base; and they carry inordinate weight when it comes to party conferences and policy decisions.  To pretend that the party’s problems have nothing to do with the unions is akin to arguing that the cricket or footy team’s failure is entirely due to coaches and selectors and not to the players themselves.

      You all get a failing vote from me.  The union movement has dominated the ALP since its inception, and has to carry some of the responsibility for allowing it to degenerate into a faction-ridden, undemocratic institution dominated by opportunists.  And the unions have to carry the can as well, for placing the advancement of former union leaders within the political sphere ahead of the interests of the people they actually represent.  If the ALP has lost its way, it’s because the message from the unions is that power matters more than policy.  So long as ex-union chiefs get their crack at ministries, it doesn’t matter what policies those ministries are delivering or failing to deliver.  That’s the message.

      As for representing the interests of workers, sorry Ged - you only represent the interests of union members. Unions don’t give a stuff about job creation, just about job protection.  And you don’t give a stuff either about where the money comes from to build and finance all the projects you describe:  it comes out of the pockets of ordinary people, Ged, who might conceivably have better uses for it than some of the ones you describe.

    • Bitten says:

      09:29am | 27/02/12

      Ged and her useless, sorry *union* mates, represents an absolute minority of Australians. Yet she gets all this air time? How so?

    • Emma says:

      11:07am | 01/03/12

      If unions didnt care about job creation, only protection, then they would’nt be in support of the carbon tax and then new green jobs and green technologies that it intends to create.

    • subotic says:

      08:28am | 27/02/12

      While Labor self-immolates, workers want answers, and bugger me if no good answers will ever come from a bloody Australian Union representative.

      *spits*

    • Steve says:

      12:58pm | 27/02/12

      I still can’t believe how quickly Australia has gone from a functioning, operational country with savings in the bank, to a disorganised, dysfunctional mess, with open borders, race hate riots, billions of dollars of debt and a rising militant workforce who wants to totally ignore the fact that we operate in a global economy. Labor, Greens, Unions, and independents take a bow.

    • thatmosis says:

      08:35am | 27/02/12

      From what Ive experienced with the unions being an ex employer is that they want more all the time for less. The represent 11% of the workforce but cause 100% of the downtime, stikes and inconvenience to the general public with their wage demands and dont give anything in return. They ignore the independant arbitator if the rulings go against them but expect the employers to stand by the rulings if in favour of the unions.
        I sacked every union member in my shop and employed contractors, had increased output of a higher standard, lees to no sickies taken and the workers had increased pay , a win win situation although the Unions did try and black ban me. The Unions today are run just to justify the high remuneration of its leaders and has nothing to do with the workers or getting Australia going again and these are the clowns that hold so much sway over the Government.

    • Jane2 says:

      09:50am | 27/02/12

      @Thatmosis have to agree with you. We are currently negotiating our award and the unions are saying a pay rise that keeps up with inflation is not enough…hence negotiations have been going on for 18 months without resolve.

      The unionists cant seem to understand that pay rises significantly higher than inflation must be paid for by either less staff employed (so everyone is more productive) or people working longer/harder, else it is not sustainable.

      Congrats on breaking the power of the unions in your workplace.

    • St. Michael says:

      11:01am | 27/02/12

      Not to mention that wage rises in anticipation of expected inflation, perversely, create the very inflation they’re meant to compensate for.

    • Ozymandias says:

      12:53pm | 27/02/12

      @Thatmosis: you appear to be saying that the Union philosophy of ‘less work for more pay’ is inherently worse than the Business perspective of ‘more work for less pay’. This is, in my opinion, what comes out of horses.

      What is actually needed is a balance between the two philosophies. I do not expect to see any such balance in my lifetime, however, as neither side has the integrity/honesty required for creating it.

      To be blunt: Employers and Unionists are equally untrustworthy. It is a marriage made in hell, and both sides deserve each other.

    • Emma says:

      11:13am | 01/03/12

      Actually, unions represent almost 20% of workers and when you talk about them causing 100% of the downtime, I would like you to caste your mind back to the grounding of QANTAS, an extreme and unnecessary decision to deal with a dispute made by the CEO that affected QANTAS staff not even in a bargaining dispute at that point of time. That downtime, was caused by the employer.
      Oh and what about the downtime caused by employers refusing to repair or update outdated machinery and technology, despite constant warnings from workers and unions? 3 weeks no week for those workers and whose fault is it? Just two examples to debunk your bogus claim.
      Unions are not perfect but neither are employers. Try injecting a bit more balance into your arguments if you want to be taken seriously.

    • Kipling says:

      09:32am | 27/02/12

      Above posts demonstrate clearly the idea of the Union being a separate body to actual workers….

      A union is ultimately as meaningful and effective as its members….

    • subotic says:

      10:24am | 27/02/12

      And… A union is ultimately as useless and ineffective as its leaders (or lackthereof)

    • RyaN says:

      10:44am | 27/02/12

      “the myths about the influence of unions on the Labor caucus”

      What myths, these are cold hard facts, Labor is the party run by the unions, hell most of the MP’s are ex-union thugs.
      It is well known that you don’t get anywhere in Labor unless you came through the unions or the communist party.

    • GonZo says:

      10:57am | 27/02/12

      “most of the MP’s are ex-union thugs”

      and most of the Liberals MP’s are Mr. Burns clones.

      excellent.

    • St. Michael says:

      11:35am | 27/02/12

      “Most of you political junkies might skip over this piece because it doesn’t involve a hard-edged analysis of who-hates-who in the ALP or speculation about where numbers will fall at 10am this morning.”

      We’re all pretty sure you already did those analyses about two days ago, Ged.  It was widely reported that the unions were throwing their weight behind Gillard, not Rudd.  No need to be so precious about it.

    • Farken says:

      11:53am | 27/02/12

      will we never get good politicians in Australian federal politics because there team is to short and they only look to get re-elected

    • year of the dragon says:

      04:17pm | 27/02/12

      “The Fair Work Act secures the right of workers to bargain to get a share of the profits generated by the economy.”

      The workers are entitled to a safe and courteous work environment and a fair wage. They are not entitled to a share of the profits.

      Until the workers risk their capital, like business owners, they are not entitled to a share of the profits. Until the workers are prepared to earn nothing, eat into their savings and borrow against their home to build a business, they are not entitled to a share of the profits. Until workers struggle and make sacrifices through the tough times, they are not entitled to a share of the profits. Until workers are on call 24 hours a day, sacrifice time with their family and work massive unpaid hours, they are not entitled to a share of the profits.

      Some bosses may make more valuable employees shareholders in the business (smart bosses in my opinion), but the workers are not entitled to anything more than a safe work environment and fair compensation for their work.

      “Don Meij from Domino’s Pizza complaining that a delivery driver was earning a lavish $160 for an eight-hour shift”

      I reckon that the equivalent of $40,000 per annum for delivering pizzas is ridiculously high. I delivered pizzas, amongst other things, when I was at uni. I earned at least my wage again in tips. So, now we are talking $40,000 +++. Not to shabby at all for a job requiring zero skill, zero experience and zero education.

    • Pelltro Baeneres says:

      06:52pm | 27/02/12

      Agree 100% Dragon!!!!!!

    • Emma says:

      11:19am | 01/03/12

      currently workers are risking their own capital as employees and these are the workers Ged was talking about in insecure work. The worker on a fixed term contract who has no guarantee of employment after 3 months must chew into his or her own capital (savings) when this work dries out. A worker who has been ongoing casual for 5 years but has no access to sick leave chews into his or her capital if they cannot attend work due to illness. You might say the casual loading ‘covers’ this, but I can say after working casually in hospitality for almost 10 years, it does not. That casual loading you get is usually used to cover yourself for if you come across a week with one 1 or 2 shifts.

    • Kipling says:

      06:02am | 28/02/12

      All well and good dragon, except all that investment is worthless without those very necessary workers….

      Entitlement is a very difficult debate, because capital also does not equate to entitlement…

    • year of the dragon says:

      07:29am | 28/02/12

      Kipling says: 07:02am | 28/02/12

      “All well and good dragon, except all that investment is worthless without those very necessary workers….”

      I agree. That remuneration for those workers forms part of the capital requirement.

      “Entitlement is a very difficult debate, because capital also does not equate to entitlement…”

      Agree. However, when you are talking about a share of the return on capital invested, then the only people who are entitled to a return on capital invested are those that actually invested (and risked) capital.

    • Kipling says:

      04:16pm | 28/02/12

      Damn this randomly functioning return button.

      @Dragon, so then is a “share of the profits” being equated to a share of the return on capital investment? Particularly if the profit is being “generated by the economy” as stated in the article. Generated by the economy seems to suggest this is not related to the actual investment but to good economic management by government (I make no judgement as to whether or not that is right or wrong, just that is what appears to be said).

      Also ANY push, request, bargaining or demand for a wage increase will at some point be presented as “eating into profits”, which is ironic at some level, given that other “costs” are merely a production cost, but those damn pesky wages eat into profits…

      In short, the return on capital invested is the “profit” left over after all costs are deducted, wages are just one of the myriad costs.

      Personally I think the initial comment is badly framed (not yours but Ged’s) and you picked up on this, however, it does not make for a successful counter argument to fair renumeration…IMHO at least

 

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