It is customary for new Members and Senators to use part of their first speech to give some account of their careers before their election. Despite my entreaties that new Greens Senator Lee Rhiannon address her past, she used the usual dodge of whinging that critics were reviving a ‘new McCarthyism’.

Comrade Rhiannonski promotes her five-year plan for pig iron production at a fete in Glebe. Photo: Ella Pellegrini

Prior to her speech, there has been a battle going on at Wikipedia about her political history. Ever since April a number of people have been trying to write a full, honest and properly referenced account of Senator Rhiannon’s political career prior to 1990 when she joined the Greens. All those efforts have been thwarted by a person called Chris Maltby, who has systematically deleted her political history prior to 1990, by suppressing any version of the Wikipedia article which might be embarrassing to Senator Rhiannon.

So what are the facts about Senator Rhiannon’s past that the NSW Greens and Mr Maltby are so keen to stop you reading?

You won’t find out at Wikipedia, but at least you will be able to find out at Hansard, which is beyond Mr Maltby’s reach.

In 1971 the Communist Party split over attitudes to the Soviet Union, particularly the 1968 invasion of Czechoslovakia. Senator Rhiannon’s parents, Bill and Freda Brown, left the CPA and joined the Socialist Party of Australia, which was loyal to the Soviet Union and supported the invasion. The Browns joined the CPA at a time when it was totally loyal to the Soviet Union and Stalin’s leadership. They could not have remained in the CPA if they did not share this belief. Brown was the editor of the CPA paper Tribune, which strongly supported the Soviet invasion of Hungary.

By her own account, she joined the SPA in the early ‘70s, at a time when the SPA was an outspokenly pro-Soviet party. Mark Aarons, at that time himself an active communist, says she joined the SPA at its founding conference in 1971. He writes: “She became a senior office-bearer of the youth wing, serving on the central committee’s youth subcommittee; attended Australia–Soviet Friendship Society meetings; and developed close relations with Soviet, Czechoslovak and East German communist youth groups. In 1977, Rhiannon led an SPA delegation to Moscow at the invitation of Leonid Brezhnev’s neo-Stalinist regime.”

In 1972 Brian Aarons, brother of Mark, son of the CPA leader Laurie Aarons and a critic of the Soviet Union, had an exchange of letters with Lee Brown in the University of New South Wales student newspaper Tharunka. Aarons wrote: “She [Brown] might like to tell us whether she supports the invasion of Czechoslovakia, the shooting of the Polish workers and the suppression of socialist democracy in the Soviet Union. Then we can have an honest debate about revolutionary principles.” In reply, Brown did not answer this question. Instead she wrote: “Socialist countries naturally do make errors and therefore criticism and self-criticism will be forthcoming. However, I feel that Brian uses his criticism of socialist [countries] in an opportunist respectability-seeking fashion, not for constructive improvement.” This exchange has recently been used by Gerard Henderson as evidence that Rhiannon was in fact a defender of the Soviet Union’s repressive actions in the 1960s and ‘70s, something she has denied…

In 1980-83 Lee O’Gorman (as she then was) was NSW secretary of the Union of Australian Women, founded in 1950 as a CPA front organisation and controlled by the SPA after the 1971 split. In the late 1970s Bill Brown was editor of the SPA journal Survey and O’Gorman was a regular contributor to it. Her articles frequently praised the Soviet Union (then ruled by Leonid Brezhnev’s regime).

Mark Aarons wrote of Rhiannon’s past in May 2011: “This would be simply history if Rhiannon had admitted her youthful errors and moved on. But, in a lengthy blog posted last August, she defended her parents’ and her own political records… Nowhere does she acknowledge how dreadfully wrong she was about the Soviet Union, nor express regrets for her gullible admiration of this abominable system. In failing to deal with her history honestly, Rhiannon places a question mark over her suitability for any leadership role, especially in a party supposedly built on integrity.

This is part of the Wikipedia entry which the friends of Senator Rhiannon don’t wish the people of Australia to read. Sources were provided at Wikipedia for most of the statements made in the text I read into Hansard. Nevertheless, I don’t vouch for accuracy of every statement in it. Maybe some of those statements are wrong. Senator Rhiannon did not get up in the Senate and explain where the text I reproduced was wrong, or tell us the truth about her political past. Strangely, for the furthest-left person in Parliament, she made a faux appeal to tradition, “It seems that for Mr Danby nothing is sacred, even the tradition of allowing a politician to deliver their inaugural speech without comment or interference from others.”(‘Danby tells Rhiannon to reject Stalin ahead of her maiden speech’, Crikey, 24 August 2011)

Now, some people will say that it’s hypocritical for me to criticise Senator Rhiannon’s when there are people in the Labor Party who have similar pasts. It’s true that many people who grew up in the Vietnam War era were radicalised as students and joined Maoist, Trotskyist or anarchist student groups. But most of them rapidly grew out this youthful phase and became moderate social democrats – some, such as Christopher Pearson, who supported the Khmer Rouge in his youth, have even become conservatives!

Senator Rhiannon’s case is different. She grew up not as a wild student radical, but as a dedicated member of a pro-Soviet Communist Party. When the CPA tried to free itself from Stalinism, she followed her parents into the breakaway pro-Soviet SPA. She loyally supported all the crimes of the Soviet Union during that time. And this was not a passing phase for her. She remained a senior and active member of the SPA until well into her 30s. She only abandoned communism when it had visibly failed as a useful vehicle for left-wing politics. She then joined the Greens, which is now the main vehicle for left-wing politics in Australia.

People should not be punished for the follies of their past. We should forgive and forget. But as Mark Aarons pointed out in the text I quoted, forgiveness must be preceded by repentance. Christopher Pearson has expressed his shame over his support for the Khmer Rouge, and that should be accepted. Labor figures such as Michael Costa have made similar statements. But Senator Rhiannon has expressed no such regrets. She says she is no longer a communist, and I accept that. But she has not said that communism is and always was a false and pernicious doctrine which caused the deaths of tens of millions of people, and is still causing oppression and misery in China, Vietnam, North Korea and Cuba.

Australians would have liked to have known what Senator Rhiannon now thinks about certain events of the 1970s and ‘80s which took place while she was an enthusiastic supporter of the Soviet Union. What does she now think of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan? What does she now think of the suppression of Solidarity and the imposition of martial law in Poland? What does she now think of the Berlin Wall, and the shooting of people trying to escape across it to freedom? What does she now think of the persecution of Andrei Sakharov, Nathan Sharansky and Yelena Bonner? What does she now think of the anti-Semitism of the Brezhnev regime? I’m sure I’m not the only person who’d like to know.

My challenge to Senator Rhiannon was to tell us clearly and honestly about her political past. This went unanswered. Her brief, emotional reference to all the criticism of her determination to tear out the pages of her history, like they used to from the Great Soviet Encyclopedia in the 1930s after Bukharin or Zinoviev were purged:

She said: “Over the recent months there has been a revival of cold-war rhetoric and McCarthyism-style politics with the intent to discredit my work and, in turn, that of thousands of Australians who have joined socialist and communist parties. By far, the majority of these people were motivated by altruistic values and a desire to serve the best interests of Australia and all humanity.”

What Australians wanted to hear Senator Rhiannon say was that she had repudiated communism, not just as a tactical convenience but as a matter of conviction; and that she regretted the harm caused by her years of advocacy and activism for the Soviet Union. Senator Rhiannon did none of these things and the Australian people will judge her accordingly.

121 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • Oswald Brunner says:

      07:27pm | 13/10/11

      What the rabid socialists ignore, deliberately as it nagates all ofa their ideolofies, is that there have been numerous experiments with the socialist economic theory over the centuries.  Yes, it is an acient philosophy updated from time to time..
      Everyone of them has been economic and social failure,  Russia revamped its socialism under duress and now enjoys a pivate enterprise economy.  I was there at the itme of the change and all of t h emillionaiea camea out into the open.
      In the 1980s China consciously changed her economy to a private neterprise base wi th the government the main shareholder in all large copanies. It now leads the world in economic growth.

    • Marilyn Shepherd says:

      01:45am | 27/08/11

      Oh for god’s sake, Danby once called the Christmas Island refugee prison a vile concentration camp, he is now happy to have kids locked up in it and traded like bales of wool to be caned in Malaysia.

      Danby is a shill for the facists in Israel.  Lee’s crime is wanting justice for Palestinians.

    • marley says:

      02:00pm | 27/08/11

      @Marilyn - what a pity she didn’t want justice for the Czechs, the Poles or quite a number of others back in the 70s and 80s.

    • Swim11 says:

      12:45am | 27/08/11

      Any scrutiny of the Greens is good scrutiny. They are so used to throwing around crap in their own party rooms but when the spotlight is turned onto them and their ridiculously shallow and impractical policies, suddenly they can’t justify themselves. It’s all a Murdoch conspiracy apparently to delegitimise the poor Greens. If the Australian people had a clue what they really stand for, they’d. Vale the Democrats, at least they were a sane minor party.

      Danby is right to challenge Rhiannon to confront her demons. And he even admits himself that many of his colleagues were also red in their youth. It’s just sloppy commenting to pull him up on that - those Labor members are up front and apologetic. Same with the Liberals (Costello was pretty left in his youth IIRC, much like his brother remains) but if Rhiannon wants to prove to us she is no longer a Communist, she shouldn’t try to excuse herself and her Greens mates shouldn’t try to cover it up either. But her support of things like a 25-30% death “estate tax” suggests she’s no less red than she ever was - she’s just chosen a far less reprehensible vehicle for it.

      We can’t erase the past, but we can own up to it.

    • gra gra says:

      05:57pm | 26/08/11

      Bit rough , all of you high-ground moralists. If you were seriously concerned about all pollie’s backgrounds, their sworn loyalties, to whom or what they owe first allegiance, you could begin by having a long look at one Anthony Abbott.
      Would Abbott do anything that might be good for the nation but clash with his masters in Rome? Of course not. But does he come out and say, ” I wish to renounce the religous views I had regarding a woman’s right to decide for herself as to what she does with her own body. And my views on divorce and remarrying, and my views on paedophilia within the church being ignored or at least, covered up”? Again, of course not. Where is the kerfuffle about that?
      If there is a concern, a real concern rather than an opportunistic blackening of someone’s name, then why on earth wouldn’t a voter examine somebody’s history before voting. Too lazy? Don’t care? Why worry? All of the above?
      Ask Abbott the above questions re his policy standpoint, and ask him too to renounce Rome as a policy guide. He’ll tell you it is none of your business, and you’ll accept that as reasonable. But not Rhiannon. Wierd bunch of pretenders, aren’t you.

    • marley says:

      07:09pm | 26/08/11

      Abbott’s history is there for all to see and question (and I do question it).  Rhiannon’s is a mirage.  That’s the problem.

    • papachango says:

      05:20pm | 26/08/11

      Give Lee Rhiannon a break - she’s just been sworn in.

      I mean seriously, what are you complaining about?  she’s sort of like the Greens’ equivalent of Wilson Tuckey, only even crazier. Though, unlike the watermelons in the Greens, she’s actually mostly honest about her political beliefs - she’s red on the outside as well as inside.

      I hope Bob Brown gives here free rein to continue vilifying Israelis and Jews in general, push for death duties and massive new taxes, the glories of socialism, and all her other bat crazy ideas.

      Then let’s see what it does to the Greens’ vote next federal election…

    • lordy says:

      04:36pm | 26/08/11

      Danby spends a lot of time establishing that Rhiannon’s parents were ardent Communists and Sovietphiles, and actually joined at a time when Stalin was running the show, and we all know that the sins of the parents are the sins of the children, and then it’s a quick cut to the seventies and there’s Gorman nee Rhiannon becoming a senior office bearer for the youth wing of the Soviet commies, and at this point you might ask who gives a flying fuck, seeing as how Julia Gillard once typed envelopes for the Socialist Forum??

    • Disraeli says:

      10:56pm | 28/08/11

      You are as entitled to your opinion as I to mine. The import of your words was and remains plain.

      You can attempt to dress up innuendo as principle. Don’t expect others to roll over for such pretensions.

      Utterly unmoved by debating tricks, by the patronising remark about principle, and content to let my posts stand as written.

    • marley says:

      08:01pm | 28/08/11

      @Disraeli - nonsense indeed.  But the nonsense is yours.

      I have kept strictly to a discussion of Danby’s article and to Rhiannon’s website response.  I have never suggested for one moment that she did or could erase her ASIO record or Danby’s Hansard comments.  That is your straw man, and rather a tawdry one at this point.  And i certainly haven’t accused her of any sort of malfeasance in her role as a senator.  Another straw man.

      I have simply observed that Danby has claimed that Rhiannon and/or her supporters have tried to sanitize her past on wiki.  You have said that her blog response addresses the issues, and I have said that it doesn’t. I consider her response to be evasive.  I am entitled to that opinion.

      And frankly, sir, you should change your handle. Disraeli, though a conservative, was a man of principle.

    • Disraeli says:

      11:17am | 28/08/11

      Nonsense. The words you uttered are your responsibility, not mine.

      They clearly carried the meaning that she had been, *and would continue*, to “erase” her history. 

      She cannot now, nor in the future. The archives records now and in the future, and the Hansards now or in the future, are not erasable sources.

      Further, as already remarked, what point could there possibly be to fabrication or erasure anywhere, when there are, and will be, genuine public records freely available?

      I’d be interested to see what response the Senator makes to these repeated allegations. All based on one dashed Wikipedia article with *all* the weaknesses of that system. Despite the clear edit trail.

      Noting the other poster here who deliberately proposed an edit war swarm of the article.  Wikipedia as a source of forensic evidence? Utterly farcical assumption.

      Noting too that Danby tried to imply that the wiki guy whatsisname would have fiddled with the Hansard if he could have. Absolute total 100% 24 carat malicious balderdash.
      Further, if anyone has a skerrick of evidence that the Senator has done something improper with regard to her election or in office as Senator, there are clear courses of action available, either through the Federal Police or ASIO. You’ll need more than innuendo and a Stat Dec.

      While aiming to remain civil, accurate as far as I’m able, and rational, I would add this:  be dashed to your claimed indignation. Your words are your responsibility and they clearly carried the meaning I’ve addressed.

    • marley says:

      08:21am | 28/08/11

      @Disraeli - it is very clear from the context in which I placed my statement, that I was referring to the article above, and the claims that Ms. Rhiannon or her friends had tried to erase a part of her history from the wiki article.  I have never said or implied that she could erase the official public record.  I deeply resent your suggestion that I made such a suggestion, and that I traduced Ms. Rhiannon in so doing.  Like you, I take the strongest exception to words being placed in my mouth.  Your efforts to rebut something I didn’t say are, and to use it to attack my character, scarcely places you on the moral high ground you seem to be trying to claim.

      As for my assumption that you believed Ms. Rhiannon had no need to account for her activities of the 80s, I apologize if I inferred to much from your statements.  But we certainly appear to disagree on the point, don’t we?  I think a politician has to open and honest about his or her past and the errors he or she may have made.  And I think that skating over one’s past is a catastrophic error of political judgement.  Ms. Rhiannon has been challenged, possibly unfairly, but politics are never fair, and I find her unwillingness to address the issue head on inexplicable.

    • Disraeli says:

      07:35pm | 27/08/11

      Let’s just keep to the facts, and keep the record straight, thanks.

      marley made this allegation, and I quote:
      “her efforts to erase her past political history do not bode well for us ever finding out”.

      Senator Rhiannon cannot erase the public record already created and accessible, part of which is her own work. marley’s claim is untenable.

      Now marley seeks to put words in my mouth - and I quote:
      “You may think that Ms. Rhiannon need not account for her political beliefs and activities 20 or 30 years ago or explain why she was editing a pro-Soviet periodical well into the 80s.  That is your opinion. “

      I have never made such a statement. It is misleading of marley to seek to imply, infer or assume that I have.  A common enough piece of deception by some Punch posters, and always deplorable.  I take the strongest exception to such trickery.

      Senator Rhiannon’s commentary and rationale for it are for her alone to determine, and to account for. My view of either, or whether I hold one at all,  has nothing whatever to do with it.

    • marley says:

      03:07pm | 27/08/11

      @Disraeli - I will make my point as simply as I can, since we seem to be talking at cross purposes.  An allegation has been made that Ms Rhiannon or her supporters are deliberately downplaying her political activities and opinions over a substantial period of her adult life.  That allegation has not been rebutted. 

      An allegation has been made that Ms. Rhiannon was at one time a strong supporter of the USSR and some of its less salubrious undertakings. That allegation has not been rebutted.

      An allegation has been made that Ms. Rhiannon has never repudiated her beliefs or expressed her current opinion of the old USSR.  That allegation has not been rebutted.

      You may think that Ms. Rhiannon need not account for her political beliefs and activities 20 or 30 years ago or explain why she was editing a pro-Soviet periodical well into the 80s.  That is your opinion.  I happen to disagree.  I would like to hear her explain exactly what her views are on her previous political beliefs and engagements.  And so far, I see no evidence that she is prepared to address the issue.  Certainly, her own blog addresses almost none of the key questions.

      That is her right, of course, but it is then mine to make my own judgment, both of her political judgement back then and of her political astuteness now.

    • Disraeli says:

      03:05pm | 27/08/11

      Dash it.
      “Presumably Danby accords more weight to the speech than Maltby does”
      should be
      “Presumably Danby accords more weight to the speech than Marley does”

    • Disraeli says:

      02:45pm | 27/08/11

      A most elaborate missing of the point, or misrepresentation of the overall position i’ve described.

      Marley suggested Rhiannon has made efforts to
      “erase her past political history”
      and that she would continue so to do:
      “do not bode well for us ever finding out”. Marley’s words.
      Still others have made similar or wilder claims and in shriller tones.

      So the ASIO material is not a strawman, nor is my manner of raising it.  The existence of this (and any future material), as I’ve already pointed out, makes any suggestion that Rhiannon can or has been hiding or erasing material a total nonsense.  To suggest, As Marley did,  that she has *already* erased material is thus, in my view, wilfully incorrect and an attempt to traduce the woman.

      I don’t care much about WikiPedia. Its reputation for malicious edit wars is well known and deserved. I would make the point though that Maltby’s edits there are in *plain view* and *plainly credited* to him.  Hardly hidden, either, then, though it’s easy enough to make anon edits there - of which there are plenty in the piece. Draw your own conclusions.

      Not being connected in any way to either the Greens or still less Senator Rhiannon, I have no insights in to why she chose to critique the ASIO material, or comment on other matters, in the ways she did.

      It might be interesting to find out what reply she makes to a constructive enquiry on the matter -  a course available to anyone.

      But what she did do is all on the public record, where anyone is free to be picking it over. Danby’s needlessly sly swipe about Maltby re the NSW Hansard is one tawdry example. Presumably Danby accords more weight to the speech than Maltby does. But there it is, Rhiannon in Hansard in her own words.

      I can only go by what I see on the public record, and weigh that against the various elaborate efforts here to re-interpret her position - and that of anyone daring to question the witch-hunt.

      All I see is a duly elected member of the Senate with a politically active past which has earned her a set of ASIO files open for access.

      I don’t do sarcasm or personal insult. I’m happy to withdraw “sillier Punch posters” when I should have contented myself with “sillier Punch posts”. If Marley cares to spend a few minutes reviewing the thread, he’ll be able to work out which ones for himself.

    • marley says:

      12:01pm | 27/08/11

      @Disraeli - well, I might be one of the “sillier Punchers” but I recognize the straw man fallacy when I see it. 

      Mr. Danby has not suggested that Ms Rhiannon has attempted to alter her ASIO files.  What he has said is that Ms Rhiannon’s supporters are consistently altering her wikipedia entry to downplay her pro-Soviet political activities in the 1980s.  You have not addressed that point at all.  Has Mr. Maltby been doing as Mr. Danby claims?  Have accurate but possibly unflattering wiki entries been consistently deleted in favour of a bowdlerized version of Ms. Rhiannon’s political history?  That is the first point, and one which no one on this thread has yet addressed that I can see.

      As a corollary, I would point out that Ms. Rhiannon’s own explanation of her political views and activities, past and present, is less than comprehensive when it comes to the late 70s to late 80s.  In fact, it scarcely mentions that fairly lengthy period at all.

      The second point is that Mr. Danby has challenged Ms. Rhiannon to admit that she was mistaken in supporting the USSR for so long. He claims she has never publicly repudiated or apologized for her past views.  If he is wrong, no doubt you can point out where her repudiation/apology is.

      If, however, you simply believe she shouldn’t be required to explain her past linkages, or state that she no longer holds those views, well, that is an opinion, and no more than that.  I don’t think it is in the least “silly” for others to want a clear statement of her current views on socialism/communism and her past support for some very unsavoury regimes and activities.

      By the way, as an aside, wouldn’t it be more appropriate for you to call yourself Gladstone rather than Disraeli?

    • Disraeli says:

      06:08pm | 26/08/11

      Indeed. Hardly news, though, as SBS did a doco on Freda Brown & ASIO etc about 20 years ago.

      History, in a democratic and largely civil modern State, is a pretty accessible thing. So even Rhiannon’s original ASIO files are all readily available through our National Archives (subject only to the usual restrictons: nothing less than 30 years old, plus some other exceptions).  Go to Record Search http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/recordsearch/index.aspx
      and look under Rhiannon for ASIO files A6119/4733 to A6119/4737.

      They run from 1955 to 1978 and are all marked as “Open for Access with exception” (an entirely usual assessment for a living person), and copies can be requested.  Not much evidence of suppression, then.

      Rhiannon herself has seen the contents and disputes some of the accuracy of the ASIO material (and not alone in that, if you recall the recent Spry bio pic).

      Indeed, she is on the public record doing so, at length, in the NSW Parliament Hansard
      http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/Prod/parlment/hansart.nsf/V3Key/LC20100316035
      Hardly evidence of “hdiing” or “suppression” there, either.

      And finally, there’s her own blog, easily seen on line:
      Responding To Attacks On My Family And Political Background
      Dated Friday 03 September 2010
      http://archive.leerhiannon.org.au/blog/responding-to-attacks-on-my-family-and-political-background

      All this readily found in the public domain, by anyone with a little curiosity or historical bent. Hardly evidence of anything being hidden, surely.

      No brief for the Senator or her Party, but I’m dashed if Danby or the sillier Punch posters should get away with sloppy presentation of history, when its already there in the public domain.

    • mervyn ford says:

      03:52pm | 26/08/11

      So Lee Rhiannon is really Lee Brown. I can see the resemblance…whew, I though for a moment she was Bob in drag.

    • Robert Smissen of country SA says:

      01:50pm | 26/08/11

      Well Michael, she should fit in hand & glove with Julia & her beliefs

    • Demoman says:

      01:18pm | 26/08/11

      The Greens are like cancer, which when allowed to grow too large starts spreading all over the body to the point it starts killing the host.

      The best solution would have been to deal with the cancer when it started developing, however that time is long gone. It has now infected all facets of society and will be more difficult to deal with.

      The destruction of the Greens will be soon enough, once people realize they are anti civilization and anti human. I will smile and watch the thin lipped feminists, homosexuals, beta males and multicult supporters lose everything they have worked for over the last decades.

    • John A Neve says:

      03:13pm | 26/08/11

      Sony B Goode,
      I love your post, please explain it to me?
      “You cannot have freedom and material equality”, just why does “freedom” breed “inequality”/

    • Bev says:

      02:37pm | 26/08/11

      beta males ????

    • Sony B Goode says:

      01:42pm | 26/08/11

      Spot on. Green is the new red. Socialism and all egalitarian ideology are at the core violently oppose to freedom. You can’t have freedom and material equality, they are mutually opposed outcomes. Freedom necessarily breeds vast inequality in the same way that links to web sites are vastly unequal.


      When will people start to realize that voting green/red is the same as cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face?

    • Jenny T says:

      01:11pm | 26/08/11

      The spotlight needs to be turned on Michael Danby’s credibility. Rhiannon, who was a one year old when Stalin died, has publicly condemned the crimes of Stalin. I haven’t heard Michael Danby publicly condemn the massacres and atrocities that the Israeli government has inflicted on Palestinian families. He seems to be an apologist for its war crimes. And why does Danby misrepresent Greens policy? It raises real questions about him. His sugar coated wiki page needs a total rewrite.  If you compare the policies of Communist parties to the Greens their are big differences. Rhiannon has been a Green for 20 years, yet people like Danby want to manipulate and exaggerate by making out she is a communist.

    • marley says:

      01:59pm | 27/08/11

      John E Neve - okay, first, according to Danby, someone has consistently erased parts of her history from wiki.  He’s confident enough of his facts to enter it into the parliamentary record - and there are penalties for misleading parliament, after all.  Second, in addressing Danby’s (and other, similar) criticisms, Rhiannon produced a blog which omits almost all mention of her political activities during the 80s, including her editorship of a Soviet-financed periodical.  I consider that to be less than forthcoming.

    • John A Neve says:

      08:50am | 27/08/11

      Marley @ 0724pm /26/8/11,

      You have not answered my question!
      I repeat “Do you know for a fact that she has “erase(d) her past political
      history”?
      I’ve read all sorts of reports, by all sorts of people, all have their own bias on this matter. But I see no evidence of her erasing any thing.

    • marley says:

      08:34am | 27/08/11

      @disraeli - I think you will be hard put to find any statement of mine that involves traducing Ms. Rhiannon.  And I’m not interested in whatever files ASIO may or may not have on her from 30 years ago.  Frankly, I don’t much care that she was a Soviet sympathiser back then - that’s a reflection on her political astuteness, or lack thereof, but not necessarily anything more than that.

      I’m certainly not asking her to critique ASIO files she may not have access to (do FOI requests cover such files?  I would have thought so).

      What I do care about is the point Mr. Danby is making:  why the attempts to erase or downplay part of her history on wiki and elsewhere (including her own bio page)? Regardless of what ASIO might say about her past, presumably Ms Rhiannon knows what her activities were at the time.  Does she prefer not to address questions about them out of mere embarrassment?  Then she needs to get over it, admit to a mistake (if she believes her support for the USSR was a mistake, of course) and move on. 

      And, having read her comments on the issue twice, I do fine her evasive about her activities and beliefs in the 80s and 90s.  Her blog jumps back and forth in time, focussing more on her parents than on herself, and making no mention of her editorship of the Survey at a time when she was supposed to have been a committed Green.

    • wow says:

      07:15am | 27/08/11

      yes, these same tea-bag nutters are also questioning President Obama’s religion. Was he a muslim or even, he may still be a muslim paranoia. Really, how many people give a flying rat, except the crazies that seem to come out of woodwork when hate mail is directed at people with pitch-forks in their hands. I’m not sure Danby is aware their is a difference between a commo and a socialist. By his logic, Sweden, Finland, Norway are communists because they are socialist countries. BTW, How is Rhiannon hiding anything, if these records are publicly available from national archives?? Now I know why we need a public inquiry to Australian media. Bring it on.

    • Disraeli says:

      11:38pm | 26/08/11

      Neither she, nor Maltby, nor anyone else for that matter, can “erase” the National Archives ASIO files, nor the Hansard records, previously referred to by me, far below. [Disraeli says:06:08pm | 26/08/11]

      Apparently Marley takes exception to the scope of her critique of those files, though whether he refers to the NSW Hansard or her own blog (my references, far below) is unclear.

      Apart form anything else, the National Archives don’t release information less than 30 years old on anyone, for anyone, as far as I’m aware. The Archive Act doesn’t permit it.

      She can hardly critique ASIO files unless she’s been given access, for files that are certainly not available to anyone else.

      The scope of the NSW Hansard and her own blog are a matter of her choice, but when there is an official record readily available, of which she is plainly well aware, she can hardly hope to hide much, in the end.

      And indeed, the amount she has explained is readily found on the public record and thus available to test or cavil about, as your prefer.

      But plainly she must be aware of the implications, of those records and her and her family’s past. Then there’s the matter of her oaths of office, and whatever level of security vetting she’s undergone in the course of becoming a minor party Senator. 

      Call me cynical, but I’m disinclined to take “ever helpful” at face value. I’m simply aiming to remain civil, accurate as far as I’m able, and rational.

      So to my mind, the notion of a public official with open ASIO files in the Archives trying to “erase”, “hide” or other wise dodge is fanciful.

      As for not “ever finding out”, if there are further ASIO or etc files then, depending on whatever provisions then apply, they’ll be in the National Archives in due course and releasable under the 30 year rule (less
      any exceptions the security and/or privacy weeders see fit to restrict).  Which, with respect, cannot by any stretch be trotted out as evidence of “hiding” on her part.

      Rather than traduce her here, with less than clear evidence, Marley could always do something active like asking her - her contact details are on her blog and Aus Parlt site.

    • marley says:

      07:24pm | 26/08/11

      @John A. Neve - umm, erasing her political history?  Yes, that was the whole point of the article above.  And, should you care to check out her Wiki bio, I think you will find a certain sanitizing of history.  Not to mention the link provided by the ever helpful Disraeli, in which she attempts to address the criticism while omitting the better part of 15 years from her bio. 

      I really don’t care if she was a rabid red in her teens.  Hell, I was pretty deep pink myself.  I do care about whether she was still a red in her 20s and 30s, at time when the domestic social failures and international imperialism of the USSR had become manifest.

      What I care about is that she won’t own up to her own history.

    • John A Neve says:

      03:09pm | 26/08/11

      Marley,
      Have I missed something?
      Do you know for a fact that she has “erase(d) her past political history”,
      if this is the case, please point me in the right direction?

    • marley says:

      01:39pm | 26/08/11

      @Jenny T - you’ve missed the point.  Mr. Danby’s credibility is not at stake:  we know what he stands for.  We may disagree with him profoundly, but we know his views on the Israeli-Palestine issue.  We don’t know Ms. Rhiannon’s views on communism and the Soviet Union.  We know she was once a communist;  we don’t know whether she still is or not.  And her efforts to erase her past political history do not bode well for us ever finding out.

    • RyaN says:

      11:43am | 26/08/11

      The Greens are the communist party, who in their right mind cannot see this?

    • Al.B says:

      06:47am | 27/08/11

      huh? me? some of us socialists do work also lol

    • RyaN says:

      06:11pm | 26/08/11

      @Al.B: fortunately the permanently unemployed are quite few these days.

    • Al.B says:

      01:35pm | 26/08/11

      cool i know thats why i voted for them, the ‘watermelon’ socialist element of the party actually appeals to some of us raspberry

    • Politico says:

      11:36am | 26/08/11

      This piece makes perfect sense.

      The member for Melbourne Ports having a crack at a Senator for NSW.

      Clearly these two will have much in common, including their base constituents, policies they ran for office on, and their view of Australia.

    • fox says:

      10:29am | 26/08/11

      I think a lot of people are missing the point.

      This is not just about Rhiannon repudiating or apologizing for her past.

      It’s about the attempted rewriting of her history on Wikipedia.

      Even if she has changed her beliefs, her history should be there for all to see. But in typical leftist style they don’t want people to know the truth, so they try to delete it.

      Rewriting history is a hallmark of the left. Year 0 anyone?

    • TomZ says:

      04:06pm | 26/08/11

      James1, an interesting comment but does that lead to the conservatives fighting with one arm tied behind their back all in the name of decency?

      I am thinking about the days of witchcraft in 1486 where treachery and subtle manouvering by Heinrich Kramer put the Malleus Maleficarum in place as an accepted “policy” while decent people (the majority) stood by helpless as witches were burned. Evil prevailed then.

      I am thinking that Al Capone was stopped by tax evasion. There was no “Marquis of Queensberry” stuff then. Good prevailed then.

      In an era where one side flaunts the “whatever it takes” motto without any sense of shame and enjoyed electoral success for so long, I am not so sure that fighting fair is always going to be effective when confronted with ratbags.

      If that sounds like “The Man who Shot Liberty Valance”, I suggest that conservatives shouldn’t abandon any options in a dirty game.

    • Disraeli says:

      04:02pm | 26/08/11

      I thought I’d made my point plain enough, for goodness sake: rewriting history is an affliction of *both* sides.  So I cited some obvious culprits from the other side, for contrast.

      The claim was “hallmark of the Left”.  I’ve assumed that the OP knows what a hallmark is, in precise and extended meaning. The claim is nonsense and misleading.

      Neither the Left *nor* the Right have been able to resist the temptation to skew history or current affairs to their own advantage, both historically and now. There are so many examples from *both sides*, a list of all the more obvious from the 20th C to date would be long indeed.

      Milosevic, Mugabe, Stalin, for what that’s worth. Whether these were truly Left,  or merely brute totalitarian in some “social” dress up, is a matter of opinion. 

      How wide spread is undetected rewriting in bad faith? Don’t know, though the frequency with which detected examples come to light suggests that such tricks are largely a waste of time and good will.

      Such trickery is not unusual, but no hallmark of either Right or Left. Besides, there are those on both sides who work and act in good faith, rare though they may seem in the steamy, seamy corridors of The Punch.

      The fabric of history is a vast tapestry stretching back into the mist of the past . If in places rent with self-interest, and in patches threadbare with clodhopping cliche, it is also bejewelled with fact, carefully woven of exemplary writing and fresh discovery, to repair the accidental tricks of memory, the careless error, the valiant loss of riches in extremis and (by careful winnowing), the discovery of pure bad faith fictions sown by the mischief makers of the Left, the Right, the merely vain, or the crudely commercial forger.

      The sweeping claim that “Rewriting history is a hallmark of the Left” is nonsense and misleading.

    • AdamC says:

      03:22pm | 26/08/11

      Personally, I don’t understand how the Greens can preselect extreme nutters like Lee Rhianon and then whinge about being portrayed as extreme nutters in the press. I mean, derr ...

    • TomZ says:

      02:41pm | 26/08/11

      Agreed fox, the issue is why does Rhiannon need to sneak around when it comes to her past as a communist?

      I don’t believe people are “missing the point” so much as attempting to divert the issue so as to derail the point.

    • marley says:

      02:36pm | 26/08/11

      @Disraeli - in the broader sense, I have to agree with you.  Didn’t someone once say that history is always written by the victors?  So, left or right, you produce the version of history which suits your perspective (though I think Herr Schicklgruber was a bit more into creating an imaginary Aryan history rather than editing the real one).

      I would say, though, that the editing out of personal history or of inconvenient facts was something much practised by Stalin and his mates.  Photos of the early Bolsheviks, with Trotsky edited out, and that sort of thing.  So there is a kernel of truth to the statement.

    • Disraeli says:

      01:51pm | 26/08/11

      “Rewriting history is a hallmark of the left”
      Sweeping generalisation, demonstrably misleading.

      Examples across the political divide abound in modern times, from Herr Schicklgruber through RM Nixon, M Thatcher and on to C Monckton to name just a few.

      In our own country, in current times, we have K Windshuttle, G Grech and Alan Jones all industriously attempting to re-write history for their own Right-wing political purposes.

      It is a nonsense to claim otherwise.

      On Wikipedia (leaving aside the numerous cases of over-abundant vanity), biassed and malicious edits and edit wars are an all too common occurrence in any contentious topic, from both ends of the political spectrum.  Wikipedia: useful, flawed, proceed with caution.

      It is misleading nonsense to claim that the rewriting of history in bad faith is the preserve of the Left, let alone its hallmark.

    • Dave-o says:

      12:28pm | 26/08/11

      @Markus and while the PM’s office were editing out slander and libel they just pruned a few facts and events for imbalances sake.

    • James1 says:

      12:18pm | 26/08/11

      Indeed Markus.  There is a world of difference between making something accurate, and removing any semblance of accuracy.  Not all Wikipedia edits are equivalent.

    • Markus says:

      12:03pm | 26/08/11

      Howard’s page had to be constantly revised, to keep up the integrity of the information - funnily enough, statements like ‘Howard is a child killer’ could never be backed up with sources, so were removed.

    • Dave-o says:

      11:12am | 26/08/11

      John Howard’s wikipedia page was constantly revised (and from within the PM’s office) so it’s not the sole domain of the left.

    • James1 says:

      10:56am | 26/08/11

      “Rewriting history is a hallmark of the left.”

      While this is indeed true, it is a tactic that is starting to spread.  A great example of this is Michelle Bachman’s supporters attempts to edit Wikipedia pages on the US founding fathers to reflect her comments about their tireless fight against slavery - a patently incorrect historical statement. 

      I have been very concerned of late about conservatives adopting the tactics of the left.  I am of the firm belief that it degrades the conservative side of politics, and must be avoided at all costs.  If we do not stand on principle, what do we have left?

    • John A Neve says:

      10:53am | 26/08/11

      Fox,
      I believe that the “left” has a longer and more open history than any other Australian political party.
      Please tell me i am wrong?

    • james hunter says:

      10:41am | 26/08/11

      What you mean, was ?

    • Re anon says:

      10:16am | 26/08/11

      And the real point is ... It’s not Ms Lee (I changed my name for a reason)‘s past that is the issue.
      It is her pronouncements now.
      Take a look
      She is happy to take NSW stipend & stay in the Prliament until she green slid into federal whilst attacking the very fabric that gives her the money.
      The facts are the things she says and espouses.

    • Al S says:

      09:53am | 26/08/11

      Lee Rhiannon is one person. She is not going to lead us into some great Communist dictatorship. It is good to have a voice in a representative democratic parliament with a different point of view. Our whole political life is based on having such people in parliament.
      The last thing I would want is everyone in parliament being identical. 
      This article is a piece of hysterical rubbish. In reality this is just another attack on the Greens because the party is gaining traction with voters and the major parties don’t like it.

    • marley says:

      12:24pm | 26/08/11

      I agree that its good to have a voice in parliament with a different point of view.  The thing is, though, that her evasiveness about her past raises questions about what her point of view really is.  And, were I a green Green, I’d be worried about whether my party was being used and manipulated by someone who had other agendas than clean air and old-growth forests in mind.

    • Max, of Rocky says:

      10:35am | 26/08/11

      It only takes one person to make a majority !

      The Greens selected her, this reflects on their views and plans.

      If the people vote for the Greens, so be it, but be prepared for the consequences.  Look at the mess we are in now !  8-(

    • Dave-o says:

      09:50am | 26/08/11

      Is anybody really surprised that no one wants to mention the “s” word in parliment with the hysterical fear mongering going on. Freeze the indexation of the Family Tax benifit and thats an act of class warfare.

      Give me a break. The Senate is a joke anyway.

    • Dave-o says:

      11:06am | 26/08/11

      You musn’t have heard of Barnaby Joyce.

      I don’t have a problem with the bicameral system at all. Just the scum the seems to float in without any serious questions asked of their ability (refer Barnaby Joyce, Greens, Family First et al.)

      I’m also very aware of the Senate estimates committee’s and the role they play. I seem to remember them recently making cat calls at the minister of finance and trying to call in outside experts because they were unhappy that the public service wasn’t agreeing with their political agenda.
      As for Queenslands unicameral system, well given that its had the longest and strongest growth of any state for the last 30 years it seems to be working fairly well. Its also balanced by the CMC which other state and federal politicans don’t have to worry about.

    • Max, of Rocky says:

      10:27am | 26/08/11

      Yeah a real joke, it’s called the house of revue, so that the government of the day has a balance and a true overview of legislation that otherwise would be rammed through parliament.

      Heard of Senate Estimate Committees ?  8-)  Know what they do ?

      You only have to look at the Bligh government in Queensland, where there is no upper house, to appreciate a Senate.  Bligh regularly rams legislation through and is now looking down the barrel of an electoral disaster the size maybe only Gillard will eclipse.

      Your lack of knowledge of how a bicameral government works is a worry. 

      The Westminster System is the basis of Western Democracy.  Suggest you find out more about how our government works.  Ever read the Constitution?  I have, and studied it, and return to it when something turns up that involves it..

      How can you vote if you do not understand, or do you just follow dogma?    (“class warfare”)

    • Anna C says:

      09:45am | 26/08/11

      So what? Lee Rhiannon isn’t the first person to have had communist/socialist sympathies in her youth. Who hasn’t? Only most people usually grow out of it by the time their her age.

    • TomZ says:

      07:39pm | 26/08/11

      The big question is where does she stand now that she holds a position of power over our lives? I am sceptical that she has not got the decency to clarify her position to Australian voters.

      To the Australians who believe there is nothing wrong with being a hard line communist, let them vote for her. However to those Australians who would not vote for a communist, let them know so they can vote for someone else.

    • Daniel says:

      09:44am | 26/08/11

      Why should Lee Rhiannon do anything that the far right media want her to? Why should she have to repudiate anything? This is she says is just another long bow to try and attack and discredit her. If this is the entire extreme right media have on her they better get on with more constructive things. What would happen if the Greens started dirt trawling through some Liberal party member’s pasts? If you live in glass houses don’t throw stones I say.

    • TomZ says:

      02:28pm | 26/08/11

      Daniel, “Why should she have to repudiate anything?” The question at hand is why would she want to conceal her past. Why does she need to sneak, Daniel?

    • dovif says:

      12:09pm | 26/08/11

      Far right media?

      Yeah those far right ALP scum

      It is all right wing ALP bias!!!!

    • jf says:

      09:16am | 26/08/11

      You’re in Government with her mate.

    • Malleeringneck says:

      09:13am | 26/08/11

      She will be the downfall of the Greens. Which is good news for Australia.
      I bet most of the people who ticked Greens on the Senate ballot paper did not know of her history.
      This is of course why Wickipedia is such a garbage website because it does not show true history, because any one can stop details being published on its site.
      Her reference is not the only one that has only part of the information available on it.
      If people really want to boycott something, it should not be Israeli products, but Wickipedia and the Greens.

    • TomZ says:

      02:24pm | 26/08/11

      A Yassin, what a deadly stupid statement. We know what we know which is that Rhiannon and Gillard are past communists who both go to considerable efforts to hide that fact. If you have any evidence that someone else is a communist and hiding their past, put up or shut up. Some facts please, troll.

    • St. Michael says:

      12:03pm | 26/08/11

      It’s one thing to have once been a supporter of Milton Friedman.

      It’s another thing entirely to have been a supporter of Josef Stalin.  Particularly when you won’t recant your support.

    • A Yassin says:

      10:25am | 26/08/11

      “She will be the downfall of the Greens” - Why?

      “I bet most of the people who ticked Greens on the Senate ballot paper did not know of her history”

      I’m betting that most people who ticked either LNP or ALP on their senate tickets did not know the history of their candidates either. Be honest, did you Malleeringneck?

      Both statements are senseless rubbish.

    • Bomb78 says:

      09:13am | 26/08/11

      A Yassin - when the militant groups that claim to represent the Palestinian’s stop firing rockets into Isreal come back and make the same statement. Until then the Palestinian’s and Israeli’s deserve each other.

    • fox says:

      09:02am | 26/08/11

      See the edits here (click on the dates to see the various versions)

      http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lee_Rhiannon&action=history

      Let’s all do our part and keep pasting Lee Rhiannons true history into her wikipedia page. You don’t need to register, just edit. A few dozen of us against Chris Maltby and soon the page will be temporarily locked for editing with the truth intact.

      @A Yassin. Why don’t you make mention of the innocent Jews who are in constant fear of their lives because the Palestinians keep bombing them, from hospitals and schools of all places. Like Greedo, the Palestinians shoot first. You sound as anti-Semitic as Lee Brown.. sorry, Rhiannon.

    • Fiddler says:

      11:06am | 26/08/11

      Han shoots first dammit!!!!!!!!

    • A Yassin says:

      08:45am | 26/08/11

      What a load of hypocritical rubbish, Danby’s own party are headed by the greatest assembly of communists / socialists seen in our countries history and he’s got a problem with Rhiannon’s early life and that of her parents.

      Why doesn’t Michael Danby make mention of Lee Rhiannon’s opposition to the thousands of innocent Palestinian people that have been killed by the Israeli government that he obviously supports?

      Danby’s a hypocrite and nothing more.

    • John the Zombie says:

      12:24pm | 26/08/11

      A Yassin I could ask you the same question in why doesnt Lee Rhiannon not mention about the atrocities committed by Pakistan and other middle eastern countries on non-muslims.

      Here ill give you a few just because you seem only one eyed.

      Sikhs in Pakistan are been told to pay a Jiyza (tax) or leave their land. Land that they have been on even before the creation of Pakistan.

      3 Sikhs behead in Pakistan because the refuse to convert to Islam

      3000 SIkhs forced to live in a temple as their land has been taken in Pakistan.

      Sikhs refused access to thier temple in Pakistan for prayers.

      Hindu temples attacked and destroyed on a daily basis in Pakistan.

      Mass murder of Sikh and Hindu living in Jammu/Kashmir by LeT and other Pakistani backed terrorist groups.

      Requirement of non muslim in Iran to pay jiyza and death taxes.

      Attacks on Christian churches and Christians in Eygpt

      These are just a few A Yassin of what is happening around the world that the Greens and you seem to forget or is it because they are in Islamic countries it does not matter.

    • Markus says:

      10:03am | 26/08/11

      “Why doesn’t Michael Danby make mention of Lee Rhiannon’s opposition to the thousands of innocent Palestinian people that have been killed by the Israeli government that he obviously supports?”

      Because it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand?

    • Adam Diver says:

      08:58am | 26/08/11

      I am sick to death of these kind of stupid claims

      “Danby’s own party are headed by the greatest assembly of communists / socialists seen in our countries history”

      Not because you are neccessarily incorrect, but a little evidence or reasoning would not go astray. Its a fair claim to make, I would be interested to hear why you makie it, but when no evidence is put forward, then your comment becomes meaningless.

      Please I put out a call to fellow punchers, can we have opinion with evidence, thoughts, reasoning or something. Opinion for opinions sake is worthless.

    • dovif says:

      08:27am | 26/08/11

      It is very worrying for all Australians, that this is the group of people, that Julia Gillard sold Australians out to, just so she can remain PM. Gillard also called them extremists, when you are in bed with extremists…..

    • Liberty says:

      11:06am | 26/08/11

      Agree, it’s a bit rich for Gillard to label normal Aussie families extremists when she rolls with unreconstructed Stalinists who have as their ethos the taking of private property by force.

    • Joan says:

      07:49am | 26/08/11

      Classic commie tactics- manipulate, hide the past, use manipulative language to excuse and justify. We have a PM who doesn’t own up to actions during her Social Forum days. Australian voters have every right to know of politcal past of all candidates to make formed decision when they vote. A leopard ever changes its spots, and early formative years in area such as politics forms the core basis of all politicians

    • TomZ says:

      07:22pm | 26/08/11

      Thanks Disraeli,  We have a Hansard reference vs ASIO reference vs Danby (Bob Santamaria?) vs Wikipedia (I confess I use Wikipedia) vs Lee Rhiannon’s written account. All from different angles. I could not accept that Rhiannon’s own account is 100% objective in the matter.

      The matter is in the open at this point,but it seems that these issues were dormant for a long time.

      Philby, Burgess and McLean were not entirely open about many things. In the same vein, Rhiannon is not going to walk around with a banner telling her inner thoughts if she had them.

      On Joan’s point “use manipulative language to excuse and justify” Rhiannon seems very reluctant to clear up the ambiguities one way or other on the Russian failures particularly the inconsistencies between the Stalinist butchering of millions and her stated support of “social justice”.

      This leaves a public to wonder.

    • marley says:

      07:08pm | 26/08/11

      @Disraeli - I’ve read your citation.

      She claims that her parents’ actual views were somewhat different from their public pronouncements. Fine.

      She says she had views about the Russians marching into Czechoslovakia that were misplaced.  And she was only a kid at the time .  Fair enough.  That’s about it. 

      I don’t honestly see in this article anything that addresses the following 12 or 14 years, when she was no longer a kid.  In fact, the 70s and 80s seem to have disappeared entirely from her memory.

    • John A Neve says:

      03:53pm | 26/08/11

      TomZ,
      I don’t have any “information” on any MP’s, unlike yourself!
      Please tell just how did Julia get into this debate? As I stated before, it is you who is “derailing” this issue.
      As to “keeping” the matter in the “closet”, what evidence do you have of
      Rhiannon doing this?

    • TomZ says:

      03:41pm | 26/08/11

      John Neve (Seano), “The key issue [in the debate] is why did Gillard and Rhiannon need to keep their pasts in the closet.”

      If you have information on other MPs than these two, put up.

    • John A Neve says:

      02:57pm | 26/08/11

      TomZ,
      Based on the posts to date, if any one is trying to “derail” the debate it is you.
      Feel free to find fault with what i have said. I hate these expressions, but you are just a troll.

    • TomZ says:

      01:36pm | 26/08/11

      John A Neve, The key issue is why did Gillard and Rhiannon need to keep their pasts in the closet. However, if you want to enlighten us with similar behaviour by someone else also doing that, feel free. I suggest that as readers we should deal with known factors (unless of course you are trying to derail any discussion about the matter, but of course you wouldn’t try something that dishonest).

    • Joan says:

      08:34am | 26/08/11

      John,  Perhaps voters should ask for summary of past politcal activity as part of election material- a resumee as you do with any other job. After all the voters are paying pollies wages

    • John A Neve says:

      08:16am | 26/08/11

      Joan,
      I agree in part, so do you know the “political past of all candidates”?

    • Al.B says:

      07:36am | 26/08/11

      why should she “repudiate communism” any more than mainstream pollies should repudiate markets and capitalism given the havoc created with its boom/bust cycles. Or militarism perpetuated by western countries based on “faulty intelligence”. She was a member of socialist groups which is fine, not directly responsible for any atrocities committed from what i can tell.

      I mean come off it, Rhiannon sounded quite proud of her work with socialist groups in her speech and that of many Aussies like her. I’m sure some people will get plenty of mileage on this one with their ‘McCarthyist’ tactics, doesn’t make it at all relevant. Good on you Lee! Stick to your principles, repudiate nothing…

    • andye says:

      05:25pm | 26/08/11

      @Erick - So at what point does an “ism” go from bad to good? Does it depend on the number of casualties? Or is is relative? Capitalism has nothing to apologise for because comunism and nazism have a higher score? If the commies and nazis all apologise, should capitalism do so after that? What about white colonialism? Should we apologise for that? Im mostly white, but partly not - so should most of me apologise to the rest of me? ITS ALL SO CONFUSING, ERICK.

      this is all about calling people names. I’ve noticed many of the conservatives will accept people like Monckton readily despite some current relationships with dodgy organisations, yet are desperate to call others commies or marxists or whatever based on whatever stupid shit they believed in when they were young. So she was a commie in the 70s? Does that really mean she is responsible for apologising for all off communism?

      I don’t think so, it seems pretty ridiculous to expect that. I’ve never voted green and don’t expect I will, but it is based on current policies, not that some of them were idealistic marxists back-in-the-day. This is all part of the conservative tactic of calling everything social or that doesn’t involve tax cuts to the wealthy as communism.

    • Tim says:

      11:13am | 26/08/11

      I don’t think she has to apologise,
      she just has to say whether she still believes the same things she did at the time or whether she has changed her mind.

    • Erick says:

      10:17am | 26/08/11

      @Al - Wrong, wrong, wrong. The historical fact is that capitalism does not in any way comparable with Communism and Nazism in terms of atrocities. In fact, its benefits greatly outweigh its faults.

      There is a true moral equivalence between Nazism and Communism, but the same cannot be said for either of those and capitalism.

    • Markus says:

      10:13am | 26/08/11

      I agree, Al, comparing Communism to Nazism is plain wrong - the Nazis were mere amateurs when compared to the magnitude of mass murder carried out by Communist countries through the 20th century.

      “The figures you are assigning to an ideology rather than specific regimes” Hardly. Mao’s Communist regime was responsible for the deaths of over 30 million alone.

      That you can honestly say that the murders of tens of millions of people living under these regimes is a matter of perspective just shows how warped your judgement is on the issue.

    • Al says:

      09:47am | 26/08/11

      @ Erick - replace Communism with Capitalism. “Capitalism was and is an ideology that led to atrocities on the scale of Nazism. One can make mistakes in one’s youth, but such serious mistakes ought to be renounced and apologised for.

      I’m uncomfortable with the mention of Nazism - which seems to always be added to arguments that have very little factual basis - but it is what you said.

      Capitalists in the Middle East and even Asia have a lot to answer for.

    • jf says:

      09:36am | 26/08/11

      Sceptic says:09:14am | 26/08/11

      “Why does she have to apologise? “

      She doesn’t if she doesn’t believe that her believe in communism was misplaced or her support for Soviet Russia mis-guided.

      Howvever, the fact that she seems to do everything she can to purge that from her personal history suggests that, at best, she sees it as being politically inconvenient.

    • Sceptic says:

      09:14am | 26/08/11

      @erick

      Why does she have to apologise?

    • jf says:

      09:12am | 26/08/11

      Give me the boom bust cycle of capitalism over the bust bust cycle of communism.

      As to the atrocities of capitalism, perhaps some have been committed in the name of capitalism. However, capitalism does not require the subjugation and suppression the way that communism does.

    • Al.B says:

      08:32am | 26/08/11

      all a matter of perspective and how it informs your reading of history i guess! The figures you are assigning to an ideology rather than specific regimes.

      and how about Religious Ideology? Priests, Imams, Ministers, Sea.org commanders, Rabbis ... Repudiate Now!

    • Erick says:

      08:08am | 26/08/11

      Every nation has bad stuff in its history, Al. B, but there are orders of magnitude of difference between capitalism and communism. Communist countries directly murdered around around 150,000,000 people last century. By comparison, the Nazis were pikers with only around 10-30 million, depending on how you count.

      On that scale, liberal free market democracies don’t even rate. It’s totally ahistorical to compare totalitarian ideologies of mass murder with democratic countries.

    • Al.B says:

      08:01am | 26/08/11

      i dunno Erick maybe i’ve been reading too much Chomsky LOL but i reckon ideologies like capitalism and even ‘american exceptionalism’  are responsible for plenty of atrocities also.

    • Erick says:

      07:47am | 26/08/11

      Communism was and is an ideology that led to atrocities on the scale of Nazism. One can make mistakes in one’s youth, but such serious mistakes ought to be renounced and apologised for.

    • Super D says:

      07:24am | 26/08/11

      I’m not surprised by the wikipedia edits.  This “resource” which presents itself as neutral is inevitably captured by one side.  It is basically useless as a reference for any contested sort of “knowledge”.

      I wonder if the Chris Maltby wikipedia editror is the same as the Chris Maltby Green Activist, Partner of Greens Councillor and lover of free sandwiches described here.

      http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/councillors-fight-over-the-crumbs/story-e6freuy9-1111118953762

    • jf says:

      09:08am | 26/08/11

      Snouts in the trough right down to the last crumb.

    • John A Neve says:

      07:13am | 26/08/11

      While an interesting read, I fail to see the relevance of the article.
      Many politicians, both past and present have switched camps, some have even started their parties.
      I see it as a good thing, that a pollie is not so entrenched in their views as to not know when some thing better comes along.

    • John the Zombie says:

      12:10pm | 26/08/11

      Wasnt this the same person who stated that when she enters the senate she will change her view on Isreal. Before been sworn in Lee was a strong supporter of Mackerville council move to ban all Isreali products and boycott them as well but then once she was going to enter she said ow im gonna change my position while im in senate but not my belief.
      Note it is interesting that it is know Gillard also wrote articles for the Socialist Allience while in University yet they are all seemed to of gone missing.

    • John A Neve says:

      10:58am | 26/08/11

      Markus,
      In answer to your question; I don’t.
      But on the other hand, you don’t know she hasn’t, do you?

    • What says:

      10:55am | 26/08/11

      Let’s not forget a certain former Leader of the Opposition was recorded on tape saying he would “never vote for the Liberal Party in his life”

    • Markus says:

      10:42am | 26/08/11

      That is the problem though, John - how do you know she has changed?
      She refuses to even publicly acknowledge it, so has never given any indication that she does or does not still hold these beliefs.

      We aren’t talking about her private life or her personal sets of values, we are talking about the political views that she currently holds, something that the voting public have every right to know about a publicly elected official.

      “So why would one keep looking back?”
      So that they don’t repeat the same mistakes.

    • John A Neve says:

      10:02am | 26/08/11

      Fiddler & Adam Diver,

      I have done many things in my past I would not do now. They weren’t necessarily “folly”, they were just based on what I knew at the time.
      So why would one keep looking back?
      I repeat, I’d rather a person who was able to change, than one who is so entrenched they are unable to see a better way.

    • Adam Diver says:

      08:49am | 26/08/11

      John A Neve, prepare to be enlightened.

      The past is irrelevant if you have changed your beliefs and admitted your folly. If you have not admitted your folly, then your beliefs still stand.

      Now if a politician believes in less than moderate things, and has not admitted this folly, which suggest they still believe it, then it is a blight on thier character that should be known to the voting public.

    • Fiddler says:

      08:45am | 26/08/11

      I don’t think she needs to constantly go over her past, simply address it either with a “yeah I was young and didn’t realise all the bad things they were doing” or “I still agree, suck it up, they’re my beliefs” If the article is true then it shows a deliberate attempt to cover things up. Not up there with covering up a crime or anything but I think she needs to address it.

    • iansand says:

      08:30am | 26/08/11

      Another point to the article is that it points out an issue that may well lead to the destruction of the Greens.  That is the dichotomy between the fairies at the bottom of the garden tree huggers and the opportunist radical lefties who are using the Greens as a Trojan horse to achieve, finally, some real power.

    • John A Neve says:

      08:13am | 26/08/11

      Fiddler,
      In this case the perception is only one pollies view of another. I fail to see why one constantly has to talk of their past, please enlighten me?

    • Fiddler says:

      07:29am | 26/08/11

      The point of the article is that she merely appears to have changed her hat and coat. As was abundantly pointed out in the article many pollies have changed their beliefs and come out with public statements to the fact, not made active attempts to cover their past and refused when asked to clarify their position, makes it seem as if she has something to hide

    • Andrew says:

      05:59am | 26/08/11

      Good article but honestly what did you expect from the Green? Their policies are aimed specifically at destroying institutions and elevating their party to a controlling position. Beware any political party that claims it will offer you more freedoms and will redistribute wealth. I challenge everyone to read Greens policies. Truly they read more like the communist manifesto.

      The Greens care nothing for the environment and even less for people. They cloak themselves I’m legitimacy and hide from scrutiny. They hate successful wealthy people and believe in dragging everyone into their mediocrity instead of pushing all to be successful. The Greens policies would do to australia what Mao and Stalin did to their respective countries.

      I can’t believe the Labor party has been stupid enough to enable their greatest enemy. Now Labor has their own one nation problem.

    • acotrel says:

      06:27am | 27/08/11

      Some people still subscribe to fascist ideologies - what is your point ?

    • MarkS says:

      03:59pm | 26/08/11

      The communist manifesto is a much better read. Anyway Stalinists were not nearly as dangerous as the Greens, the Greens are more like the Khmer Rouge then the Russian Communist party under Stalin.

    • John the Zombie says:

      12:04pm | 26/08/11

      Read the greens policies specially in the terms of defence. Most people should have a good read of this section as it points out the greens are will to scrap the ANZUS treay that exsist with Australia, reduce the ADF and its expenditure, establish a permenent UN peacekeeper budget (so basically our taxes to go to the UN), develop a coast guard to replace the ADF and also cnacel all joint military operations in Australia and training.

      People should really read the greens policies.

 

Facebook Recommendations

Read all about it

Punch live

Up to the minute Twitter chatter

Anthony Sharwood

#markwebber just wasted petrol faster than everyone else in monaco #f1

Anthony Sharwood

In my sports column on The Punch tomorrow: why Eurovision was easily the best game on the weekend. Mummy bloggers, you'll like this one!

Daniel Piotrowski

The Logies could learn a lot from Eurovision #lamethings#sbseurovision

Daniel Piotrowski

RT @ellehardytweets: Already despondent about the next fifty one weeks. #sbseurovision

Recent posts

The latest and greatest

Abbott’s crass logic: trash the Parliament in order save it

Abbott’s crass logic: trash the Parliament in order save it

An email was sent to almost every politician in Australia this week saying that someone should cut off…

Our special forces don’t always need special treatment

Our special forces don’t always need special treatment

We admire them, but we’re not entirely sure why. We allow them to operate in the shadows; we rarely…

A good holiday is about unrest, not rest

A good holiday is about unrest, not rest

Like a fat full-stop, it lay in my hand. A small orange – not exactly fresh, but purchased anyway…

Gentle jabs to the ribs

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

A private school girl’s family is sueing her elite, extremely expensive private school for not… Read more

243 comments

Newsletter

Read all about it

Sign up to the free daily Punch newsletter