Welcome to this week’s I Call Bullshit. It’s a weird one. An email arrived in my inbox yesterday spruiking “Australian best-selling author Margaret Stuart”, whose gift lets her “see into the bodies and minds of people suffering from different illnesses and help them to remove the thoughts and fears that are literally making them ill”.


Bullshit bingo! I took a look at the website, chuckled that the ‘qualifications’ section included kinesiology, Thought Field Therapy, and advanced scaffolding and forklift driving, pulled the old ranty-pants out of the cupboard, lined up an interview, and was good to go.

Then a strange thing happened. Margaret Stuart seemed like a nice, genuine woman who just happened to have some beliefs I reckon are a bit kooky. She may think she can cure diseases with mind power, but she doesn’t tell people to stop seeing their doctors and she doesn’t seem to be making a fortune from it. The ranty pants chafed.

Obviously I Call Bullshit on being able to read people’s minds and cure them. But I actually think she probably helps people just by talking to them. So I thought I’d just give you lot the only-slightly-edited interview here, and let you make up your own minds. Should I have hardened up and buckled those pants straight back on?

Tory Shepherd: Tell me what you do and how you do it.

Margaret Stuart: I look at the subconscious mind to find out what it is thinking, feeling and believing that’s creating illnesses and problems in a person.

TS: Tell me how you do that – do you meet with someone, talk to them, do you do a physical examination?

MS: I tune straight into the subconscious mind - I can see, hear and feel what’s going on. So that if I tuned into you – which I won’t do …

TS: You can if you like!

MS: Ha, if I tuned in to you I’d be able to tell you what’s going on in your system, what your thoughts, beliefs and feelings are. I get a feeling – in fact I do get a feeling now, talking to you, around the stomach area. (TS: I was a bit hungry). I tune in and listen to the subconscious and it tells me what’s going on.

TS: So is it something you visualise, or is it more like an empathetic feeling, where you feel what they’re feeling?

MS: I feel what they’re feeling. I can see what’s going on and I can hear the words the subconscious is using.

It’s a phenomenal gift I’ve got. Sometimes I can just look at a person – in fact I do this all the time - I scan them and then tell them where the problems are.

TS: What kind of formal training do you have?

MS: I’ve got a masters degree in leadership and workplace health and safety, which helps. I’ve got Bachelor of Arts, a Diploma of Education, a Diploma of criminology and forensic psychiatry. I’ve got a couple of years of a psychiatry degree (I was bored senseless) I’ve got kinesiology, One Brain… oh god I’d have to look up my website, I’ve got so many qualifications. (You can see them all here)

TS: So what would you say to people – I’ve worked with many skeptics and I’m a skeptic myself – what would you say to people who say: this isn’t how the science says the world works.

MS: I’d say well, science is wonderful and it’s got its place but there is more to the world than people realise, there’s more to our thinking than people realise. Everybody has things in their lives they can’t explain. And once I start to read the subconscious for them, they go: My god, how did you know that?

TS: Have you ever thought about putting it to a test? There are people out there (I was thinking of James Randi and the Australian Skeptics) who say, if you bring this to us, we can test it for you.

MS: Never. No.  I’m not interested. The main reason being I’ve got a very big clientele, and my clients will vouch for my work. For example I treated a woman with psoriasis for 22 years and couldn’t wear bikinis, shorts, t-shirts, anything. I saw her seven times over a couple of years and she’s got rid of it. I know it works.

TS: What other diseases have you worked with?

MS: What diseases haven’t I worked with? I worked with a lady who had a stroke. I had a lady who hadn’t walked for 40 years, she could only shuffle. I’ve worked with dementias, cancer patients, psoriasis, eczema.

You name it. I can get rid of a cold for somebody in half an hour.

TS: Do your patients still see mainstream doctors?

MS: What I do is I say to them you still need to do whatever you need to do medically. I work with the mind and get rid of that aspect of the business.

TS: Do you think the placebo effect could be responsible?

MS: Definitely the placebo can work because the mind will relax. Then while they’re relaxing they start to think about the problem and they solve the problem for themselves.. 

TS: It sounds similar to the faith healing that some charismatic churches do. Do you think there are any parallels?

MS: I’d never thought of that. One of those techniques you can do and I sometimes use it with clients is, if they’ve got a lot of things on their mind, I get them to draw a line down a page and I get them to write down on the left hand side all the things they have to get done but just can’t do then on the right hand side all the things that need to be done that they can do. Then I say let the ones on the left hand side go, do the things on the right hand side.

TS: Sort of like ‘God give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change…’

MS: Yes. Once people start to take action, to do something to actually help create their lives, they start to improve. Another key thing I use is to get people to declutter. If people declutter everything that is not longer joyous, fun useful, they’ll find their lives actually change.

TS: Is it a lucrative industry?

MS: You get paid for what you do.

TS: A lot of people make a lot of money out of these things…

MS: What I believe in is you never work for free because the person consulting with you doesn’t value what you’re doing so they won’t put the effort in to help themselves.

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64 comments

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    • Sam says:

      12:44pm | 10/05/12

      Placebo effect. You think its working so it sometimes does. A well documented scientific fact. Doesnt mean what shes doing is actually ‘helping’, but if you think it is, it just might push you a little closer to a cure.
      This wont work on me though cause I think its all bullshit

    • Dave Charlesworth says:

      02:27pm | 10/05/12

      Just like sea sickness tablets. Placebo’s

      They are but Salt tablets. But they do work, just ask someone who’s about to go out fishing in a 3 metre swell for the day. “I’m right I’ve had some quells”

    • Cars says:

      05:08pm | 13/05/12

      @Dave. Sea sickness tablets aren’t placebos. Medicine has to go through blind trials where the placebo effect is ruled out.

    • Tubesteak says:

      12:45pm | 10/05/12

      “advanced scaffolding and forklift driving”

      Well, that’s a bit harsh. These are genuine qualifications….

      .....oh wait…

      The rest of it is quackery

    • Little Joe says:

      11:30pm | 10/05/12

      Just like a person with an Arts Degree pretending to be a journalist writing about the science of climate change or the economy.

      At least on this platform we get some very intelligent posts from the contributors about these subjects that are worth reading.

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      12:49pm | 10/05/12

      We don’t know everything about the body, the mind OR the way they interact, Ms Shepherd. 
       
      Two hundred years ago, folk like you would have been scoffing at the notion that (essentially) injecting someone with cultured mould spores could cure infections. 
       
      Five hundred years ago, you’d have been burning alive those that claimed, even with evidence, to be able to help people by utilising methods you didn’t understand.

      Unfortunately, as a would-be journalist, you are in a position to influence the feeble-minded among us. Pity.

    • shinydonkey says:

      02:36pm | 10/05/12

      We know heaps about the body and mind, Mr Tony.  Heaps.  More than you can poke a stick at, and all of it inconsistent with this Stuart person’s claims.  The burden of proof is on those making extraordinary claims, and proof of this dingbat’s mind-reading ability is not forthcoming.

      One among us is SO feeble-minded that he will give you $1m if you can demonstrate your paranormal abilities to a mutually-agreed set of criteria in a controlled environment.  If someone picks this up and succeeds, I’ll sit down and listen.  Until then . . . well . . .  mindreads like a quack, quacks like a quack . . . you know the rest.

      http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

    • Mark G says:

      02:38pm | 10/05/12

      You know what the big difference is in your examples tony? Qualified researches that actually know what they are talking about identified these breakthroughs via legitimate scientific methods that could be put up to peer and government review. Most of the medical breakthroughs in the last hundred years have been made by specialist researchers, who are proven experts in their respective fields, in controlled clinical environments. Not by Joe Blogs forklift driver who once did some psychiatric studies at uni in his home in suburban Sydney. 

      You think people don’t understand these methods? I have heard explanations of most of these methods and I can pick them apart in one hundred ways. Is not an issue of not understanding them. I have listened to people try and argue these methods but their arguments are always based on pseudo science that when compared to substantiated science is seriously flawed to begin with.

      Five hundred years ago people were burnt at the stake for pushing scientifically proven ideas and not sticking to the church driven spirituality view on the world. That is actually the opposite of what you are trying to argue. You were actually less likely to get burnt at the stake for what this women is doing as long as you said it was god’s power.

    • shinydonkey says:

      12:57pm | 10/05/12

      Yeah you went soft, Tory.  This person is either a charlatan or an idiot, and they all seem nice and genuine.  Bad for business to present as otherwise.  If she’s not taking James Randi’s $1million challenge and WINNING, she shouldn’t be taking money from anyone else, unless it’s for driving forklifts or erecting scaffolding.  Boo.

    • M says:

      12:57pm | 10/05/12

      “I get a feeling – in fact I do get a feeling now, talking to you, around the stomach area”

      Classic cold reading technique. She’s full of bonk.

    • Dan says:

      03:42pm | 10/05/12

      It wasn’t lunchtime was it Tory?

    • Liberal troll says:

      01:02pm | 10/05/12

      Reading this made me angry, because it reminded me of JULIAR! JULIAR! JULIAR!

      Actually, I can never stop thinking about JULIAR! JULIAR! JULIAR!

    • Dr. Iva Stetha-Scope says:

      01:32pm | 10/05/12

      Take two suppositories and call me in the morning.

    • Kheiron says:

      07:30pm | 10/05/12

      Margery Stuart can help in this regard, because the propose suppositories should be forklifts.

    • M says:

      01:02pm | 10/05/12

      Also, “I tune straight into the subconscious mind “, followed by “got a couple of years of a psychiatry degree. “

      it’s not all that hard to guess at subconscious desires if you have an understanding of psychiatry/psychology and sub-conscious/involuntary body language. Women are also better than men at deciphering someone’s emotional state simply by observing facial expressions, tone of voice, or nervous movement. Women can pick up on subtle cues that men entirely miss.

      Again, she’s full of bonk.

    • Admiral Ackbar says:

      02:35pm | 10/05/12

      It’s the classic mind-fuck technique 101.

      Fortunately her powers are no good here.

    • Bev says:

      01:03pm | 10/05/12

      Snake oil salespeople can have any amount of qualificatioin.  They are still snake oil salespeople.

    • MatchofBris says:

      01:26pm | 10/05/12

      Ha, perfect!

    • subotic loves snake oil says:

      01:05pm | 10/05/12

      Don’t send praise, send money….

    • Bev says:

      01:10pm | 10/05/12

      In the same vein.  There was an article written By Constance about the CEO Sleepout in the Punch.  Here is her website:

      http://www.constancefairleight.com/index.php

      Her approach is not what I would call mainstream. Perhaps one could wonder as to why she is supporting this venture.

    • G says:

      01:13pm | 10/05/12

      HAH! “I’m sensing something around the stomach area”... cold reading much? She sounds like John Edwards, probably just as useless.

    • Diogenes says:

      02:43pm | 10/05/12

      and for a female a probably good guess given the number of reproductive related ailments (period too heavy, too light, a couple of days late, days early unable to conceive child, just fallen pregnant, discomfort from ovulation)

    • Inky says:

      01:24pm | 10/05/12

      Eh.

      The mind can influence a lot of things with the body, sheer mental stubborness from myself has been known to cure my own headaches, because I decide that I don’t have time to have a headache, I’ve got things to do. Yes, it’s basically the plasebo effect, but if it helps people deal with their illnesses, is that really a problem?

      The short answer as far as I’m concerned is that as long as there’s not a ridiculous amount of money being made from it, and as long as people aren’t being told to stay away from conventional medicine to go through it, neither of which this individual seems to be doing, no, it’s not a problem.

    • Kheiron says:

      07:36pm | 10/05/12

      The perpetuation of stupidity seems like a pretty big drawback.
      Then again, if I was really concerned about that I’d suicide bomb a TV station…

    • Rosie says:

      01:24pm | 10/05/12

      Sounds very familiar, very much like Gillard Labor believing in themselves that they are gifted in seeing into the bodies and minds of the Australian people suffering from they very existence.

      They are convinced that by attacking Tony Abbott non stop, is the key to good governance because in the bodies and minds of the people it is what they are crying for! They are the winners and the people are the losers! No doubt we are the losers having to put up with all their BS and people like Thompson and Slipper.

      Things have worsen for Gillard since Carr was recruited. He believes he has the gift of the gab and that every time he speaks, the people get carried away with his speaking voice and will ignore what is said. Carr should replace Anna Burke as Speaker. A monotonous gruff voice for a monotone semi gruff one. Anna Burke is beginning to annoy me already, she is like a robot and lacks any kind of appeal that Jenkins had and even a bit from Slipper.

      Another interesting article well written by only a few!

    • Blind Freddy says:

      03:39pm | 10/05/12

      FFS!

    • Gotit says:

      06:09pm | 10/05/12

      Rosie
      Why don’t you have a cup of tea and a little lie down.
      They’ll be round to empty your pan shortly.

    • Martin says:

      09:56am | 11/05/12

      Rosie, you’ve responded into the wrong location. You want the Punch column titled ‘Insert Mindless Idiotic Partisan Off-topic Rants Here’. I’m sorry, I’ve misplaced the link. Best of luck :-p

    • Cobbler says:

      01:29pm | 10/05/12

      Cheap false hope is still false hope.

    • RyaN says:

      01:55pm | 10/05/12

      Acupuncture was once, not so long ago, considered quackery.

      A closed mind is not a scientific mind.

    • Inky says:

      02:03pm | 10/05/12

      “An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded”

    • Mark G says:

      02:11pm | 10/05/12

      These things are quakery right up until there is real evidence and a good scientific explaination. The thing with most new age treatments is that they HAVE been scientifically tested and proven to be false. The only exception to this are the ones that are so far fetched it is impossible to test them scientifically. Some treatments dont even need disproving because the basic principles that they are founded on are incorrect, ignorant or psuedo science. detoxing is one of these.

    • Admiral Ackbar says:

      02:38pm | 10/05/12

      Exactly, there could be a perfectly reasonable explanation for all of this, like, I dunno, she could be a wizard.

    • Dave says:

      02:42pm | 10/05/12

      And it is still quackery. The only thing for which it has a minor positive effect (that is, an effect that cannot be solely explained by the placebo effect) is lower back pain. It has been shown that people who recieve a traditional acupuncture treatment (from a seasoned practioner, hitting all of the so called energy points) and a sham acupuncture (a random scientist placing needles over the body randomly) report the same benefit. That’s as clear as you’re ever going to get that it is merely a placebo effect.

    • Funcut says:

      02:44pm | 10/05/12

      Acupuncture is still borderline ‘quackery’. Studies have been done that reveal that it activates certain parts of the brain that may effect positive health outcomes while others have found no causal link beyond placebo.

      I don’t know for sure, but by Mark G’s logic below - with which I tend to agree - it’s still quackery.

    • subotic says:

      02:58pm | 10/05/12

      Burn the witch, burn her.

      Or drown her. Drown the witch, drown her.

      But she might be a duck. And ducks float.

      So, if we throw her into the pond, and she drowns, she was a witch. But if she floats, it means she’s a duck, and transformed herself, and is thus still a witch.

      In which case - Burn the witch, burn her…..

    • adam says:

      03:02pm | 10/05/12

      pah! all medicine is quackery, eastern and western.

      All I need are some leeches, occasional trempanning, and some eye of newt.

      Not too sure about the skin condition I’ve got, wonder if the rats have anything to do with it

    • Tim the Toolman says:

      03:14pm | 10/05/12

      “Acupuncture was once, not so long ago, considered quackery.”

      Sorry, missed the memo where qi was proven to exist and run through specific points in the body that respond positively to being punctured.  Any chance of referencing an article in Nature?  I’m sure they’d be interested to learn that we’ve had it wrong all along!

    • Inky says:

      04:15pm | 10/05/12

      “Blessed is the mind too small for doubt”

    • Richard says:

      07:25pm | 10/05/12

      @ Dave, acupuncture is not quackery. Apart from your example of lower back pain, there are also Cochrane meta-reviews strongly supporting the efficacy of acupuncture definitively for nausea and neck pain.

      Furthermore, in every single study, acupuncture is shown to be significantly effective compared to no treatment, and significantly effective when compared against a sugar-pill (which is what a placebo is). Every single study, Dave. Every single time.

      Saying that acupuncture is no more effective than placebo on the current evidence is pure speculation, because “sham acupuncture” (which is erroneously used as a base-line analogous to “placebo” in these studies) is not an inert treatment. Studies have also shown that “sham acupuncture” is significantly more effective than a sugar-pill placebo in treatment, so your speculation is not supported by the evidence.

      @ Tim the Toolman~ the evidence suggest that areas traditionally mapped out as meridians in Traditional Chinese Medicine are actually areas of reduced electrical resistance and higher capacitance when compared to surrounding non-meridian tissue. The concept of ‘qi’ doesn’t need to be proved, just like the concept of ‘force’ in physics doesn’t need to be proved. Its just a label foreign scientists many many years ago used to describe phenomena they observed in a scientific way. Stop being so xenophobic.

    • Kheiron says:

      07:32pm | 10/05/12

      I’m starting to like you, Inky.

      As for you adam, I’ve got just the thing. Powdered tigers penis.

    • Tim says:

      09:57am | 11/05/12

      Richard, like most supporters of quackery, you don’t understand (or choose to ignore) what a genuine controlled experiment is.

      Testing acupuncture against a sugar pill or no-treatment is not a proper trial. Doing so may simply demonstrate that spending some time with sympathetic person who gives you some hands-on TLC makes people feel a little better. than sitting at home doing nothing or popping a sugar pill. It has nothing to do with whether inserting needles into the body tap into some mythical qi-field. The same placebo effect is observed in studies of homeopathy.

      @Dave said it well - a proper trial would compare the effect of a “qualified” acupuncturist with a random placement of needles in exactly the same environment. And guess what? same results, every single study, every single time.

    • Martin says:

      11:50am | 11/05/12

      @Kheiron

      Confirmation required on the whole “powdered tigers penis” thing. Is the whole tiger powdered, or just it’s genetalia ? And how does one apply powder to a tiger, particularly to it’s nether region ?

      Drumroll ....

    • maybe says:

      12:40pm | 11/05/12

      isn’t it still considered quackery…?

    • Max Power says:

      02:03pm | 10/05/12

      Acupuncture is quackery.

    • subotic ducks.... says:

      02:54pm | 10/05/12

      So is a gaggle of geese

    • adam says:

      03:15pm | 10/05/12

      I’m interested in what this gaggle can do for me in relation to my health. Please tell me more, but first I’m sure I can accomodate your more than reasonable fee Dr Sub.

      Will they interfere with my leeching?

    • Prof. subotic says:

      03:29pm | 10/05/12

      Will they interfere with my leeching?

      Leeching no.
      Trepanning, quite possibly.

      The girlies are free, but the crack costs money…

    • JImBO says:

      01:05pm | 11/05/12

      Acupuncture is quackery - sure is

    • Robert S McCormick says:

      02:23pm | 10/05/12

      Why give this so-called author breathing space?
      Just what qualifications has she got that she can seriously claim to ‘’‘Look at the subconscious mind to see what it’s feeling, thinking & believing that is creating illness & problems in a person…”
      What absolute & extremely dangerous nonsense!
      Of course there are folls born every day who will be taken in by this sort of quackery, will squander every cent they can collect on ci=onsultations & allegd advice.
      We had a GP friend who was also qualified as a Psychiatrist. He was very, very successful in both fields. He told us that the vast majority of his Psyciatric patients were… Psychiatrists….
      I can’t get over the arrogance of this Margaret Stuart. She claims to have so many qualifications that she has forgotten some & refers us to her web site!!
      Anyone who takes this nonsense seriously needs tobe locked up for they are a danger to themselves and all around them.
      Fools & their money are soon parted & anyone who takes this woman seriously deserves to lose their money We can all look at a person & from the look on their face we can tell if they have a problem or are happy. It’s not rocket science.
      Tory, are you sure you conducted this interview during the last week or is it one you did on April Fools Day and held over?
      As Cobbler says: Cheap false hope is still False Hope!
      Some years ago there was a silly children’s TV programme called “Lost in Space” one of the robots used to intone: “Danger! Danger! Danger!“We need some of those chanting robots surrounding this very, very dangerous person.

    • Funcutt says:

      02:32pm | 10/05/12

      On her website under “An Outstanding Achievement” it says she was nominated a citizen of Australia. What does this mean and or relate to?

    • Funcut says:

      02:33pm | 10/05/12

      On her website under “An Outstanding Achievement” it says she was nominated a citizen of Australia. What does this mean and or relate to?

    • kyzz says:

      02:47pm | 10/05/12

      Unless she already was a doctor she wouldn’t have been studying psychiatry, she would have been studying psychology. The fact that she doesn’t know the difference is worrying.

      As for ” Everybody has things in their lives they can’t explain” that’s what science is for

    • Stan says:

      03:08pm | 10/05/12

      So what if someone seeks help and advice from this woman.
      It’s still a free country-just.
      Quackery exists everywhere.
      Take the alarmist catastrophic predictions of AGW.  Not being satisfied with persuading us to accept their computer model projections that have to try and frighten us. And they are using our taxes to do it. Outrageous!
      I drive a V8. I like cheap electricity from coal fired power stations and all the creature comforts that modern life has to offer.
      I spend my hard earned money how, when and where I please.
      So all you prissy, judgmental, self-righteous, ‘know alls’ who condemn freedom and choice.
      Get a life! Get over it!

    • P-Train says:

      05:17pm | 10/05/12

      I smell a bogan with a McMansion who thinks the world is like a disposable cup.

    • Joel B1 says:

      03:53pm | 10/05/12

      Found a simple line graph of temperature for the past 20 years on any CSIRO site yet?

      Like the CO2 one they promote to death.

    • Coop says:

      04:16pm | 10/05/12

      Margaret Stuart ? Pah   !! Big Deal     !!!

      Acotrel is a scientician and can read body language     !

    • Inky says:

      04:25pm | 10/05/12

      Tory’s been quiet today. She usually responds, but I guess she doesn’t have as firm an opinion on this one as she usually does, which would make sense.

      Or maybe she’s just busy, how should I know?

    • renold says:

      05:48pm | 10/05/12

      ICB Conspiracy theory 1

      The Punch and T Shepard are delving into our sub conscience to actually buy the rubbish of an Australian best selling author.

      The Punch are getting kickbacks

      Blessed are the cheesemakers

    • Dan Webster says:

      07:43pm | 10/05/12

      ” I get a feeling – in fact I do get a feeling now, talking to you, around the stomach area.”    OMG…...Tory is pregnant !!  ; P

    • TheHuntress says:

      11:22pm | 10/05/12

      I haven’t read all the comments, so someone may have mentioned this, but you can’t have “a couple of years of a psychiatry degree”. Psychiatry is a medical speciality, that requires a medical degree and then many years of specialisation.

      You can’t just rock up to a uni and start studying to be a psychiatrist. ICB!!!

    • Dieter Moeckel says:

      09:50am | 11/05/12

      I read all the blogs and get into your minds - you’re all so easily ‘penetrated.’
      Bah and humbug! Not worth the effort really. But then again there are others who can get into your mind and at the same time pocket - Tony Abbott and co. seem to be very real proponent here.

    • Chris R says:

      10:31am | 11/05/12

      Folks I want to talk to you about the special feeling we all get around the stomach area….‘about the special feeling we get in the cockles of our hearts, maybe below the cockles, maybe in the sub-cockle area, maybe in the liver, maybe in the kidneys, maybe even in the colon…’

      Hahahah….Tory, love your work, but you know you went limp with this one!

    • Kassandra says:

      11:26am | 11/05/12

      There’s no such thing as a “psychiatry degree”.

 

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