When burnouts get more attention than tax reform

Shane From Melbourne says:

10:34am | 05/04/11

How about all that middle class welfare such as baby bonus, family tax A+B, paid parental leave, first home buyers grant? The only ones being punished in that instance is the hard working singles and childless couples who never see a cent of the wealth redistribution.

baal says:

10:56am | 05/04/11

really @shane? Your personal taxes have paid in full for every single piece of govt funded infrastructure that you have ever used.
You have never benifited from taxes raised on the increased GST raked in from families who are forced to spend every cent.
You have never benifited from taxes collected from companies?
You will never benifit from a now young person getting a decent education etc and contributing to society.
No it is just sinle childless people paying for every single thing they benifit from in society. I mean all they do is contribute.
Well what a burden, so work pay taxes and bitch.

Daryl says:

11:10am | 05/04/11

Shane, you are wrong. I am married with three children. I pay a shitload of tax and I dont see a cent of the wealth redistribution you mention. In fact, all I do is contribute to it. It’s not just singles and childless couples and quite frankly, paying about twice the average wage in tax each year, I object to that suggestion. This is what the ALP propaganda machine would like you to believe but it’s just not true.

I’m happy to pay my way but I do not think the tax system here is equitable at all. I am sick of seeing corporates who are able to split their income, run their companies at breakeven, run private expenses through their business, deal in the cash economy and then claim benefits!

The PAYG taxpayer is hammered! I cannot understand why any individual in this country should pay more than the corporate rate in effective tax. I pay in excess of 30% of my income in tax. Why is that fair when the multinational corporates pay just 30% and expropriate their profits overseas.

Can someone please explain to me why we have a tax system where some individuals pay more than the corporate rate in effective income tax??? I’d happily tick a box that says I’ll pay 30% of my income as tax. And people are calling for the corporate rate to be reduced?? WTF

I’d be way better off single and or childless!

Shane From Melbourne says:

11:16am | 05/04/11

@baal- I have no problem paying taxes for essential infrastructure and services that benefit everyone. What I resent is contributing to the middle class family income stream so they can buy a new plasma TV or go on overseas holidays etc. Welfare is supposed to be for the vulnerable: unemployed, pensioners, disabled, etc. not perverted into middle class benefits scheme and a discriminatory one at that.

baal says:

12:31pm | 05/04/11

@Shane.
I misunderstood. As someone who being partly disabled I work hard to make sure I contribute more than I take by taking whatever work I can. Centrelink offered me DSP but it really seemed like a employment death sentence.
I am also very grateful for the free medical services that kept me alive to this point after a childhood accident.
Point is I agree with you on the middle class plasma screen welfare.
I read some people on what I would deem pretty good incomes are actually getting more in welfare bribes than they pay in tax which seems wrong to me.
We should all contribute and everyone should be part of society.

Gregg says:

09:38pm | 05/04/11

@daryl,
Companies need finds invested to have them doing all those things like supplying products/services and employing people.
You might find that a 30% company tax is what is paid by the company and then when profits are distributed, the people getting those profits are up for taxation on that income, complete with whatever offset for the tax already paid by the company.
So in effect, people getting some income from dividends will be on the same PAYG tax rates as us all.
And then what taxation mininisation projects they may decide to invest in is up to them.

Daryl says:

09:09am | 06/04/11

Gregg, a corporate has the ability to split income between say husband and wife 50/50. They pay profit as salaries thereby runing the business at breakeven, split the income between the two of them and even if they don’t do any cash in hand work, pay less tax than the family man earning the same and supporting a wife and children.

Two people earning 50k each pay less tax than the PAYG taxpayer on 100K and avoid the flood levy for example, yet family income is exactly the same. The system stinks. And that’s before you start talking about putting personal expenses through the business, cash jobs, and claiming GST.

If the business is at breakeven it pays no tax. And in terms of your comment about dividends, the imputation tax system means dividends paid out of net profits are not taxable in the hands of residents.

Von Hayek says:

03:56pm | 06/04/11

Without a metallic anchor to our fiat currency, there is no check against the re-distribution of wealth, no matter who is in power. If you were really ‘Against the Man’ you would understand that fiscal policy is subordinate to monetary policy.

Liberal/Labor it’s all the same… every time they get voted out nothing changes as we still have the same usurious institutions stealing our wealth annually.

Read up on the history of currency and you’ll find the truth: money really is the ROOT of all evil, which leads one to ask what is the root of all money?

Tubesteak says:

09:10am | 05/04/11

Tariff protection and subsidies only raises prices for local consumers. Very bad idea.

JT says:

10:08am | 05/04/11

And if you really cared about Australian manufacturing you would not be supporting a Carbon tax that will rip the guts out of what we have left.

PTom says:

02:19pm | 05/04/11

@Tubesteak,
So are your opposed National party policy.

John Jones says:

08:15am | 05/04/11

You are missing the point. He is comparing time frames not the fact that that it is Canberra or the ACT.  The location and event name is irrevelent it is the time spent on these activities in relation to the time spent on what could be a great ( if it was done properly ) summit to rationalise our tax system.

phil says:

08:27am | 05/04/11

Did you read the same article?
I came in here under the promise of burn outs (which is severely lacking) but still understood what he was getting at.

acotrel says:

08:53am | 05/04/11

@Pete ‘I for one, am sick of journos and individuals like you smearing Canberra for your own ends’

I often wonder how anyone gets any sleep in Canberra with all that snoring going on?

Rover of North Cooma says:

09:32am | 05/04/11

I’m with Pete. These were very weak analogies. To compare two annual public festivals with a serious meeting is incredibly dishonest.

I agree with Jeremy, however, when he says the government should be organising its experts into sub-committees and getting a lot of the work done before the Tax Summit begins. Which is exactly what happened with the 2020 Summit, and I haven’t seen anything to suggest that it’s not happening this time.

What came out of the 2020 Summit? The Henry Tax Review, for one.

Dash says:

11:24am | 05/04/11

@Rover of North Cooma, The Henry tax review has been largely ignored by the ALP. And it was neither an independent review nor a root and branch review. The ALP specifically excluded the GST from the scope. Therefore one of the most significant parts of the tax system was left out at the whim of the ALP!

The ALP has done nothing for the tax system here except introduce three new taxes. The last tax cuts were those already passed through the parliament during the Howard government. The Carbon tax is the biggest piece of socialist wealth redistribution I have seen in my life time. Two families polluting exactly the same will be discriminated against on the basis of income! How is that “punishing the polluters”? FRAUD!

Gillard was a member of the Socialist Forum right up until 2002 when it became a political liability for her. There is no chance of getting meaningful tax reform with her in the top job. She is in bed with the Greens and like all socialists is following a policy of wealth redistribution and increased taxation. If we want tax reform we need to get rid of the ALP. They hold talk fests and commission reports but deliver no action!

PTom says:

02:59pm | 05/04/11

Howard’s mistake was he went for Industrial reform instead of Tax especially since he had brought in all the paper work with the GST.

That sound about right. But a lot of the rebates need to go too.
Like Private Health Insurance Rebate which forced more to have private insurance but has not force down the prices and cost the government money which could be spent on providing better public health. That should be covered by reform in the Medical Administration debate.

Another is the Fuel Rebate and CGT on Cars. People whinge about cars and truck on the road but we give people tax discounts to uses cars and trucks to get to work but no discount to use public transport.

The problem with making the Cth the only collector of revenue you end up with more speed fine and council parking fines. We need bigger reform to fix that.

Tubesteak says:

04:26pm | 05/04/11

A lot of the complexity of the tax system could be taken away. But we’ll never have a government with the guts to do it. Also, they’ll claim that the time difference between the changes and the old system will be too long and there will be a significant shortfall.

And yes, local councils and state governments should be banned from any sort of revenue raising in any form.

Finally, yes I do disagree with national Party Policy. Always found it perplexing that Agrarian Socialists would mix with neo-liberal conservatives.

Von Hayek says:

04:06pm | 06/04/11

“Remove any revenue raising ability from the States and hand it all to the Cth through Constitutional reform.”

The people of Australia will not vote for such an insidious centralisation of federal power.

The states, through adding an addition layer of inefficient government, serve a important purpose: check and balance on federal power.

If anything we need to take away the Commonwealth’s power to levy income tax and give it back to the States as was originally intended at federation.

Gregg says:

09:49pm | 05/04/11

As per my answer to Daryl you need to look at where the profits go and then what tax is paid on their distribution.

Daryl says:

09:14am | 06/04/11

Gregg, please see my comments above! Families cannot split their income but corporates can. And that’s before you even start to talk about cash in hand jobs , claiming the GST and running personal expenses through the business.

I’m not talking dividends I’m talking salary expenses.

And in any case, in terms of dividends, the imputation credit system means dividends paid from net profits are tax exempt.

No individual in this country should be expected to pay tax in excess of the corporate rate of tax.