What should we get out of the Afghanistan debate?

Theo Racle says:

06:08am | 19/10/10

Wanted dead or alive… George Bush, uttered as the reason for entering Afghanistan,find Bin Laden and strike terrorism a lethal blow. Well here we are 9 years later,no Bin Laden, hasn,t been seen for a while now,but we know he escaped the carpet bombing at Tora Bora because the C.I.A. tells us so. If he were dead we could withdraw honorably with the…. mission accomplished… tag famously uttered by G.W.B regarding Iraq. Well I think we are at the bottom of a well full of lies,that Bin Laden,s whereabouts is a known fact, but for altruistic reasons known only to the American warmongers this fight goes on and on,and here we are marching on to safeguard an alliance forged with the U.S.A.  in W.W.2. Looks like the blind leading the blind to me.

thatmosis says:

06:57am | 19/10/10

Bob brown last night showed himself for what he really is, a coward who hasnt had to guts to go to see our boys on the ground and trying to blame everybody but himself. he hasnt even had a meeting with the defence department about Afganistan and yet he wants a debate. This is typical of the type of crap policies that the Greens are trying to foist onto the Australian Public and will get worse once they have the balance of power. Gillrudd did a deal with the devil but we will be the ones to pay.

Daniel says:

07:24am | 19/10/10

Those points are a good start. We also need to work out what measures will be in place so this kind of thing that was started by John Howard doesnt happen again.

Darren says:

08:15am | 19/10/10

What should we get out of the Afghanistan debate?
Out of Afghanistan!

P. Darvio says:

08:57am | 19/10/10

More people die on Australia roads each and every week than the number of Australian soldiers killed in Afghanistan in the last 9 years. When are we going to declare the War on the Road Toll Terror? The human and financial cost of the road toll far out ways anything in Afghanistan. What a waste of time. The Australian voters decided what the war policy was when they last voted - why are we wasting Parliaments time on a useless debate?

Dennis Argall says:

09:38am | 19/10/10

Someone in this discussion asked “what will happen if we leave?” The question of greater importance is what happens if we stay? Clausewitz said long ago that war is an instrument of policy. People forget that he went on to say that statesmen should beware: war once embarked upon tends to the absolute and tends to drive out policy. This invasion by foreign forces has ceased to be seen well by Afghans other than those enriched by it. Staying on in pursuit of success is illusory.

Years ago it became a sneaky-easy way to get out of Iraq by saying Afghanistan good Iraq bad. Maybe true once but by the time Kevin “I believe in miracles” became prime minister it was sloppy conservative too easy.

It’s about time we came to terms that a same decision about Afghanistan has to cut through the growing forest of Australian chauvinism to reality. We aren’t so clever. Let’s be honest.

Francis says:

09:39am | 19/10/10

I agree with deputy PM lets get out of Afghanistan and let the Taliban do over them. What the hell are we there for beside massive drug exportation there isnt any oil there. What the value to us? Sure they might have a few terrorist training camps to send to the West to kill us but hey more people die from smoking that terrorists. Who really cares about religous freedom, social freedom, the right the health, education and basic human rights. What does Bob Brown think that the Taliban will open up a school for Greens!!!! Im sure they will stop there naughty schemes and open up Afghanistan to be a open democracy? Not !!! Bob stop playing for the popularist vote you are in Government now and its time to grow up

Benny says:

09:51am | 19/10/10

The ALP are so incompetent with domestic policy and international issues like war is going to be tough to manage with a PM who has stated she isn’t interested in foreign policy. God help us all!

St. Michael says:

11:05am | 19/10/10

What should we get out of the debate in Afghanistan?

First would be some pointed answers for how exactly Australia proposes to control and provide security to Oruzgan province for enough time to train up “security forces” in the province with—at a maximum—1,500 troops when the population of the province is 300,000, and the troop density given the area of Oruzgan Province at 22,000-odd square kilometres is precisely 0.06 troops per square kilometre.

It gets even cuter if you accept some of the numbers proposed by TheRealDave in these threads that there’s actually only 150 diggers out there training and patrolling at any given time.  And even cuter when you consider Major Cantwell’s express comments—as reported on this website—that half the population is off-limits to Australia because it’s female.

The second, and more important thing, is a resolution by our spineless Parliamentarians to demand that the US, with its 68,000 troops and overall command of the situation in Afghanistan, clearly define its objectives, increase its troop capacity to complete its mission, on pain of our withdrawal from Afghanistan if they don’t do so.

That is assuming that we want to stay the course.  We are a tiny element of the effort in Afghanistan, and if the US as the overwhelmingly major partner wants to stuff around with less than 1 man per square mile over the entirety of the country they want to secure, we have no obligation to put our men and women at risk.

Robert S McCormick says:

11:56am | 19/10/10

Other than platitudinous nonses & waffle from the likes of Senator Bob Brown & his would-be-almost-are Dictaorship of the ALP by the Greens. As Brown has not even asked for a briefing right here in Australia from the Defence Department how can he know anything about what is going on? He can’t. He, just like the ALP, is playing “Populist Politics” but with a twist! They are determined that their piss-farting little group are going to rule Australia. They may have gotten 16% of the Primary Vote but that leaves 84% who are opposed to them.
This debate will achieve nothing unless, of course, the Greens threaten to defeat the Gillard Government when they have control of the Senate in July next year. They will use their totally unjustified power to force the weak-willed, wishy-washy, flippity-flop ALP Federal Government to do exactly as the Greens want.
I am all in favour of a “Hung Parliament” for it allows everyone to have a say. I am totally opposed to one very minor political party being in a position to control the Parliament.
Paul Keating was wrong when he referred to the Sënate as “Unrepresentative Swill” during his time in Parliament.
If he said it today it would be one of the most honest statements any politician could possibly make for that is exactly what the Greens are.

stephen says:

12:11pm | 19/10/10

Last night in front of Kerry O’Brien, Green’s leader Bob Brown admitted that we will be in Afghanistan from 2 to 4 years, and that as both the labor and Liberal parties won’t deviate from current policy and run from the Taliban the Greens won’t have a say in immediate policy - yet he still wants a debate.
A debate about what ?
We’re staying and that’s that.

The Badger says:

12:38pm | 19/10/10

Not everyone supports the troops lady.

Youdy beaudy says:

12:48pm | 19/10/10

About time the Government had a process of discussing the so called war in Afghanistan. We need to stop warring over other countries and trying to make them the same as us. We don’t even have the answers to our own problems let alone advising or changing others who probably don’t want to change their tribal systems.

I would have never thought that we hadn’t learned anything about the stupidity of warfare after our men having to fight and lose their lives in the two great wars. What did we learn from that. Well it looks like nothing at all.

At the end of the day everyone who has been born into this world has a right to persue their personal lives in the spirit of freedom. Religion has nothing to do with the birth of an individual so therefore to me any religion that creates dogmas that control the minds of, in particular children and their parents, and seeks to control with some unprovable doctrine should not be adhered to. The problem is that religions have risen through playing on the basic superstitions that are within certain peoples and obtaining their high road by killing and maiming those who don’t believe the doctrine of fear and hatred, and we know who these religions are and they are not necessarily Muslim but christian also. They should not be supported under any circumstance, and are not by thinking people.

We in Australia, America and Great Britian and Europe have fought hard for our freedoms we enjoy today and we wouldn’t have it reversed under any circumstance. Many Millions have died on battlefields to bring about these freedoms we enjoy and we, in honor of their sacrifices have to continue down the path of freedom so that our children can end up with something at the end of the day.

The Taliban should also seek these freedoms, and if they were more compassionate they would see the idea correctly. There should be a negotiation established where the Taliban and other Leaders can sit together in commonling with each other and talk out their issues sensibily so that this whole issue can be worked out and a new sense of hope can come for their people in Afghanistan.

The Taliban would obviously claim some Wisdoms which were handed down from their Prophets of the past. If this is the case then why don’t they use some of the good wisdom that has been handed down to them and cease the supression of those who have different beliefs. It should not be a competition.!

This same Wisdom should be coming from us also so some common ground can be established. We should make a definate time for withdrawal of all our troops from the overseas conflicts and return them home and then mind our own business from then on. I’m sure the Australian People would be very happy with that. It is a good Idea to sit down and talk out the issues but the Taliban must be included in whatever is decided. This should be done with the Alkieda as well.

We have to stop for a moment and look clearly, both sides have to do this so we can see truly the stupidity of our actions. The Taliban were our friends before and supportive against the Russian Invasion of their lands and there is no reason why this support cannot happen again. Then, with some stability in Afghanistan maintained there could be more support for the Afghani Peoples in trade and the building of their great nation. Traditions could be maintained and the violence may be able to cease at last. And i’m sure their Allah would be happy with that. Peace in out time, is it possible? Im sure it is. Let’s try the peace method for a change and quit teaching our children to hate the other kids and look to the generational change to bring cooperation from all involved. I’ts just a matter of co-operation really.

Sadiq Farris says:

04:48pm | 19/10/10

The Soviet Union got out of Afghanistan after 7 years with Australia complaining loudly all the time
USA remains in Afghanistan after 10 years without Australia Complaining even once.

Lillian says:

07:30am | 08/02/12

When they bgoruht NATO into Afghanistan, I was like, “Does our politicians want us to lose in Afghanistan?” Cause that is what is going to happen when you rely upon NATO to do anything. Evidence of their fecklessness and purposeful stone walling has proven this position out.The US military, probably Marines more than anyone else, especially despise NATO and other orgs like them (UN). The mentality behind training a soldier and warrior is diametrically opposed to the kind of things NATO and the UN does.

Dink says:

03:00pm | 10/02/12

Wholeheartedly, I ednroswe Pax Christi’s statement on the urgent need for an immediate change in strategy in Afganisthan.  My prayers join all other people of faith and seekers of justice!