What not to say to your childless friends

Cam says:

09:09am | 01/06/10

Adam, most of the comments are harmless, but if you’re childless and hear them all said to you several times a week, it can wear a bit thin!

Anne71 says:

12:57pm | 02/06/10

@Cam, if people are asking you questions like that, I’m appalled. I have friends who have been married for several years and don’t have kids. I haven’t asked why, or if they’re planning to, and I never will either. Why? Because it is none of my damn business, that’s why! Perhaps you should start reminding people of that basic fact.

Bec says:

12:13am | 05/06/10

It seems that when it comes to kids, every single aspect is judged so harshly by society… from whether you have them or not, to parenting methods etc. You can’t win! Sheesh, i’m only 19 and as much as I want kids in the future, I am NOT looking forward to this!

Two Mummies says:

12:14pm | 01/06/10

Try conceiving in a same-sex relationship! As soon as you do have a child not only do people want to know who the ‘biological mother’ is, because presumably the other female parent is some how inferior having not given birth. They also routinely ask if you used a ‘turkey baster’ and if so how did you actually do it. Then they want to know who the father is,is he involved…..it goes on ad nauseum!

Society is definitely odd.

One Mummy One Daddy says:

01:41pm | 01/06/10

Two Mummies - Is society odd or your situation? I wouldn’t classify ‘two mummies and a turkey baster’ the norm. I can’t see why people continually try to normalise having same gendered parents when it is far from normal.

SingleMummy says:

04:05pm | 01/06/10

As long as the child is loved who cares who’s raising

Mistress D says:

07:01am | 02/06/10

Two Mummies, there is nothing odd about humans wanting to know how things work, it’s part of….being human. When your child says to you “Where do babies come from?” you’ll answer them and think nothing more of it than your child is curious about the world and how it all works. Only difference is that you’re being asked by adults, who want something a bit more detailed than “When two people love each other….”

Conceiving a child in a same-sex relationship is about 50/50 when it comes to ‘nature’ and ‘science’. I know how the nature bit works, but the science of it can vary and to be honest I’m a stickybeak and would end up asking “So, do you really have to lie there with your feet in the air for half hour after?”

Your situation represents a new way of families to be formed, just be glad they’re coming to you for clarification of the reality, rather than just taking Queer as Folk (or worse the L-word…what a stupid show) as fact.

One Mummy, One Daddy, ‘the norm’ isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.

Ish says:

11:09am | 02/06/10

I agree with single mummy. As long as the child is loved, and if you’re going to go to the extra effort of concieving a child by IVF or “turkey baster” and planning and pondering on it for a long time then surely that child is going to be extra special to the parents.

June says:

10:18am | 01/06/10

Rachel, I know what you’re going thru! The number of times I’ve had people say ‘can’t you just get IVF?’ as a throwaway line is astounding.

And while sometimes I may WANT to make them feel guilty by letting them know I can’t actually carry a child, it’s really none of their damn business so I end up being vague or just lying.

Rover says:

11:58am | 01/06/10

And don’t tell them about the couple you know who had five years of IVF and finally gave up and when they did, fell pregnant naturally. Or tell them to relax and it will happen.

Carolyn says:

01:57pm | 01/06/10

Rover I totally agree with you, I hear that one all the time, just relax, It will happen naturally I have a friend who had children via IVF and then they had one naturally blaa blaa blaa, even after I have told them I only have one fallopian tube left and that is completely fused to my uterus….man they just dont get it do they, I know some people say it to try to make you feel that there is some hope, we are now looking at going down the surrogacy path, and have a surrogate so keep your fingers crossed for us…...

elhombre says:

06:53pm | 01/06/10

Or as in our situation, you go through IVF and all you get out of it is ovarian cancer.

JoMc says:

09:22am | 05/06/10

For God’s SAKE! People are trying to be NICE. Give me ONE suitable answer when people tell you about having trouble conceiving. I have 3 kids and (Unfortunately) have used all of these lines. The IVF/Relex lines are designed to END the awkward conversation. If you don’t want the conversation, don’t enter into it. It’s perfectly acceptable to tell nosy people to mind their own buisnesses. What’s the problem with that?

David says:

05:38pm | 05/06/10

Rover I’m with you there…that one S**ts the hell out of me! I lot of times I have challenged people to give me names and solid facts and they don’t seem to “remember who”.

Once a person did give me one of their friends names. I just happened to bump into them and explained to them what their friends said and I asked them if they minded me asking (if that makes sense), they said that it happened via IVF after all and their friend was misinformed.

Your name: Elena says:

06:43am | 19/08/10

JoMc you’re not getting it. How could I NOT into the akward discussion? Most of the time it’s the other people who are asking. What do you imagine the conversation will be like? “Hey, are you and your partner planning on kids?” - and that’s the nice way to put it, normally it’s “oh and when will you two have kids?” answer: “Go mind your own business!” With what idea do you think the other person will go away? a) wow, what an unfriendly person she is, i thought we were pals, why is she telling me to mind my own business?, b) aha! they seem to have a problem there! well no wonder why didn’t she choose a more attractive partner/well no wonder just see how stuck up she is/well no wonder why did she wait till she was over 30 to start trying/blablabla.
While I’m standing there all the hurt and panic washing over me once again… all the plans in my life questioned again… feeling that “everybody” has got kids except me…
THough I have to say although Justine writes “Don’t pity them”: There is a thin line between inappropriate, condescending, arrogant pity as in example No7 above… or showing genuine interest instead of reacting directly with one of the above. To such a person i would be able to say “we want kids but there is a problem conceiving” - if i could be sure the reaction again wasn’t one of the above, but genuine understanding “oh that must be tough for you” . Or why not JUST ASK AGAIN: “and how do you feel about it?” but be prepared to carry on a conversation with a sad tearful person. If you can’t stand this, then - JUST DON’T ASK IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Brad Coward says:

10:28am | 01/06/10

.....when served with baked potatoes, fresh asparagus and a red wine and cranberry jus !

DM says:

10:36am | 01/06/10

add some mint jelly too Brad and that’s nice, although is it red or white wine that goes better with children??? I suppose it would depend on how bratty they are

zenbubble says:

09:13pm | 05/06/10

Yeah right… which is why there has been a 30% increase in juveniles committing crimes in the last few years alone!  When I say that I don’t want kids… I am not just going to change my mind because you feel sorry for me or feel that I should have them because every one does or because I can… just because I can doesn’t mean that I should… as witness the large amount of people who actually struggle to provide for their kids and rarely see them… seriously getting other people to raising your kids is just lazy.

Mish says:

10:04am | 31/07/10

Yes, and don’t forget to invite your childless/childfree friends when you have birthday parties for them, if they like kids.

Remember, we are subsidising you!

DM says:

10:24am | 01/06/10

I like to tell people but if I have kids I have to move the sex swing and rack not to mention the whips and chains, shuts them up real quick and if I’m lucky they blush and stammer and walk away quickly

Nic says:

05:15pm | 01/06/10

agree with all you said Legal Eagle…I know people whom are in that boat at present and it is just no-one else’s business other than themselves. Same as for those of us who choose to remain childless.

C says:

06:19pm | 01/06/10

Ditto, Legal Eagle. All exactly right.

Bitten says:

09:22am | 01/06/10

People who are insecure about their own choices are nosy. They want to know, scratch that, they NEED to know why you are different to them. Why? WHY? Why aren’t you just like them? What’s wrong with them? Why wouldn’t you choose exactly the same life as them? What’s wrong with their life? The world is a great and varied place. We don’t need to be the same. Well, secure individuals don’t NEED us to be the same. Insecure nosy douchebags though, hell yes, they sure do! And they will have uniformity!

James1 says:

10:18am | 01/06/10

Well said Bitten.  Much the same thing applies to the current debate over Muslim immigration.

c says:

06:22pm | 01/06/10

Its not about them being insecure about their own choices, bitten. It’ about them being 100% certain in their own mind that their choices are the only true path. If it was anything other than procreating it would be called radicalism

Mistress D says:

07:46am | 02/06/10

Does the tower of sensitivity you all live in come with heating? Or do you just wait for the nearest inquisitive person to wander by and just haul them onto the pyre?

I’ll admit I am nosey, though I try and be diplomatic in questioning people about subjects like kids, but it’s out of a genuine interest to know how someone got to a certain point in their lives and the choices they’ve made.

I want kids, I know what having that goal feels like. I don’t know what the goal of not having kids feels like, so I ask. I know some people can be judgmental, but for some of us it’s just trying to get a better understanding of your position.

CNBC says:

10:50am | 02/06/10

Mistress D, given that you feel free to question, albeit via self-assessed attempted diplomacy, about the initimate decisions one makes, would it then be just as socially acceptable to ask why you don’t have a better job, car or house? Nowhere near as intrusive, yet condescending and rude at the same time. It’s not about hypersensitivity, it’s about respecting other people and their personal situations or choices. If others want to talk about it, they will. Asking someone if they have kids is fine. When they say no and leave it at that, that is not an invitation to explore why, or for you to value judge or make ‘helpful’ suggestions. No one is that stupid that they hadn’t thought of them, often at length. Simply.. Do you have kids - if the answer is “no” and nothing else then its next topic.

Anne71 says:

12:51pm | 02/06/10

@Bitten - nobody could have said that better. I think that’s what a lot of this boils down to - some people just can’t handle the idea that others are doing things differently, whether by choice or circumstance.  I think at least when they know someone WANTS to have kids, but can’t, that’s okay in their minds.  The person/people in question are trying to be normal, they’re trying to conform, but are having difficulty. That’s why they get asked all the intrusive questions and offered all the unsolicited advice.  However, when they are faced with people who have chosen not to have children, then that really blows their tiny minds. Someone deliberately choosing to be different? What? Why? What’s wrong with them? Let’s make them feel like outcasts until they fall into line! It would be funny if it wasn’t so annoying - and insulting.

f says:

08:26pm | 05/06/10

Bitten - the same can be said about the people who are being asked the question.  Why would anyone be offended by someone taking an interest in them?  There should be more nosy people in the world - it would be a happier place.

Othello Cat says:

04:40pm | 15/06/10

Well said as always Bitten. There seems to be a need for self-affirmation among certain types of people. Some parents seem incensed by the very existance of the childfree as if it is some kind of personal affront.
Mistress D and f; there is a difference between being asked “do you have children?” and the haughty, smug and even accusatory toned, “...whyyyyyyyyyyy don’t you have children?” Not all nosey people ask questions oout of bonafide curiosity. They ask because they want to judge and, in this instance, to judge harshly.

NEFFA says:

02:35pm | 01/06/10

Thats the one that really gets me. that and ” when you least expect it, or you aren’t looking. thats when you’ll find him. “
BORING!

Elphaba says:

03:20pm | 01/06/10

@NEFFA

Oh, I know!  That’s bollocks.  You can’t not look for a relationship if you want one.  What, is it going to knock on the door whilst you’re sitting at home?  It’s like finding a job.  If you want one, you have to look.

Laura says:

04:06pm | 02/06/10

Same here! And the worse question… “why don’t you have a boyfriend yet? Why are you still single?”

What do they expect you to answer?

And anyway, I’m 23, since when did I NEED a man in my life? When I was in a long term relationship, I was told I was too young to settle down. Now that I’m out of one, apparently the world demands I be in one again?!

Of course I’d like to find someone, but since when is that the only priority in life?

Anne71 says:

06:37pm | 02/06/10

@Laura - get used to it because some people never stop asking that. I’m 39, single by choice and STILL cop it from time to time.Again, I think it’s like what Bitten said in an earlier post - some people just can’t handle the concept that someone else wants to live a different kind of life to them. Just don’t let it bug you - as long as you are not hurting yourself or anyone else the way you live your life is your business and nobody else’s.

stephen says:

11:49am | 01/06/10

Er… I’ve a small business proposition for yous…

Kirstie says:

04:52am | 06/06/10

Us too Treyn! My husband & I feel so guilty when asked the dreaded question “how long did it take you guys to have your son??” I hate answering it when the person asking is struggling to have kids! What can I say to them?? I just can’t bring myself to rub salt in their wounds by saying we fell pregnant straight away, it breaks my heart!

Bella says:

10:11am | 01/06/10

In a similar vein, my sister has JUST given birth (and I mean the baby is less than a week old) and rather than people saying to me, “how lovely for your sister!” or “how fun for you to be an aunty”, all I’m getting is “oooohhh, you’re next!” or “when are you going to have one??”. I have been married longer than my sister so it seems to really irk people that we haven’t reproduced yet. It’s sad that people can’t just be happy for my sister and our family who are all thrilled about the very first grandchild - they have to start the campaign to get me pregnant! What’s your obsession people???!!!  I usually respond with a “Jesus, no thanks!”, or “I’m busy right now, but thanks for the suggestion”.......

DM says:

10:32am | 01/06/10

Yes lets skip your usual rant as this one is about those who medically can’t not those who waited too long or chose not to have them

DG says:

11:43am | 01/06/10

DM - I’ve only had that rant in one thread, that hardly qualifies as ‘usual’. The misuse of “need” annoys me even more than the misuse of “choice”. I did stick to the topic while noting one point, I didn’t want anyone to think that I was slipping in my old age.

DM says:

02:46pm | 02/06/10

Sorry DG - it’s just that your rant in the other blog was so long I can’t get through the long ones. You will be happy to know I am sure from the other blog that I have started in motion to get IUDI, who needs a man when I just have a few of his best swimmers

Elphaba says:

10:10am | 01/06/10

A woman at Mum’s work was having marital problems, and asked my Mum how much sex she and my Dad have.

So yes, people will ask that question.  It’s freakin’ weird…

Crystal says:

04:16pm | 02/06/10

What did you have for dinner last night?
How often do you guys go to the football?
have you seen the latest Tom cruise movie?
how often do you have sex?
How many house do you own?
where did you go on holidays this year?

meh, just questions, It appears that everyone is so very conservative when it comes to sex.

As a couple who spent 5 years trying to conceive, we heard all those comments, and often they hurt or upset us, but it wasnt people intention to do that, so we tried to either ignore or educate.

Elphaba says:

10:03am | 01/06/10

You’re even worse than people who just come out and say it.  You preface a childless existence with “it’s a free choice”, and then nastily proclaim that it’s the wrong one.

Uncool.

Betty says:

10:22am | 01/06/10

I think you missed the point. Some people want to have kids but are unable to do so. They already watch others enjoy time with their kids and grandkids sadly, and are well aware that it won’t change as they get older.

As for people who chose not to have kids, what makes you think they will regret it when they’re older? Sure some might, but it seems quite presumptuous to assume they all will

notdefinedbyfertility says:

10:26am | 01/06/10

Ummm, did you miss the entire point of the article? It was pretty much about people who can’t have kids - so not necessarily about ‘choice’ at all. Also, why do people assume that without kids you’ll be lonley and sad? Ever heard of partners? Friends? Some sort of vocation in which you help people other than yourself? Ever considered your kids might get jobs on the other side of the world? They might not have your grandkids? Life is what you make of it, there’s no template for happiness or guaranteed success….

DM says:

10:26am | 01/06/10

That’s nice reality but we were actually talking about the ones who medically can’t have them, not those who choose not to. maybe you should read the whole thing

Emma says:

01:57pm | 01/06/10

“Enjoy Sex in the City 2 and the cocktails because the sadness may get here sooner than you realise”

Oh for god’s sake, not that old chestnut.  I’m so sick of women copping all the flak for not having children, wake up would you?  It takes 2, remember?  What do you say to men who don’t have children?

What makes people think their children will necessarily visit them and ‘enjoy time’ with them when they get older?  I was a registered nurse for 15 years up until quite recently, having looked after many older patients with children - I didn’t see hoards of adult children even visiting their parents in hospital much less take care of them.

Reality check Reality 5 - nobody ever knows how life will turn out.  Most of us just make the best of things and try to be happy.  Get out your armchair, stop judging people and go enjoy those children and grandchildren of yours.

Helen says:

02:03pm | 01/06/10

Explain your point of view regarding old age lonliness to those people who have children and grandchildren who ignore them and don’t visit. They only take interest when the will is being read out .... how’s the air up there on your high horse? Pretty thin and starving your brain of oxygen I think!

Hi Justine!

NLH says:

02:30pm | 01/06/10

I’ve checked this out and there is a bunch of research of people in nursing homes and their levels of happiness and loneliness have NOTHING to do with whether they have children or not.

You could argue that the person who has a family who never visits is likely to be much sadder and lonelier than the person who has a thriving social network they’ve maintained over the years.

Cam says:

06:52pm | 01/06/10

Actually NLH, I can’t remember where I read it, but there was a research paper put out last year I think that showed that people’s levels of happiness were highest when they were DINKS, lowest when they had children living at home and only became high again when their kids moved out!

Kage says:

09:49pm | 01/06/10

You don’t necessarily need kids to have company in your old age - try being nice to people.

Anne71 says:

06:44pm | 02/06/10

@Reality5 - if there is one thing I really, REALLY hate (apart from sardines on toast and reality television) it would have to be Smug Parents. Here’s some news you probably won’t like: having children does not necessarily mean you won’t have a lonely old age. There are a lot of people out there who rarely, if ever, hear from their adult children and / or grandchildren - and no, they weren’t “bad parents” either.  Their kids just can’t be bothered keeping in touch.

DM says:

12:56pm | 01/06/10

Not all are like that surely, I will be starting IUDI from October and hope I don’t turn into one of those mothers, it’s no big deal or miracle millions have done it before, the miracle will be if it actually takes

Elphaba says:

11:01am | 01/06/10

Aislinn,

I think 4). is particularly interesting.  Attitudes to almost everything have changed, except the idea of children.

My only explanation is that it must still be a deep-seated biological urge not controllable in certain people.

I think I’m missing mine…

2). is annoying.  I’ve achieved a lot.  My mum says to not be offended by what people say, but it gets my goat.  Of course, she’s the type that uses ‘when you have children’ as well.  Not in a ‘you should’ way - she just thinks I’m the cat’s pyjamas.

I don’t have the heart to tell her she might have to be content with my brother and his fiance’s plans for a family…

DG says:

11:46am | 01/06/10

Elphaba:

My mother is constantly asking when my wife and I are going to give her grandkids - I don’t have the heart to tell her that she’s got a better chance of us getting divorced than having kids. A far better chance - and she might not have to wait 9 monthsr.

Greek Snake says:

11:56am | 01/06/10

@Aislinn

I’m amazed at the outrage of the childless ones. We are just another species of animal but with morals and opposable thumbs. The primary goal of all life on this planet is to reproduce and pass on it’s genes.

As far as evolution goes, the idea is to pass on many strong genes so that they may live on. Often, even in the wild, there are animals that cannot reproduce, they are defective. Their genes won’t go anywhere, they will simply age and die. Why humans feel they are different amazes me. Your degrees, houses, cars and volunteer work won’t substitute as a genetic progression. You have failed to assist your species become stronger. Don’t worry, evolution is all about survival of the fittest. The strong pass on their genes and prosper, and the defective and genetically inferior die out. In essence it breeds failure out of the species, albeit slowly.

I feel sympathy for you and your reproductive issues, but don’t go attacking everyone, in a fit of jealous rage, who shows pity towards your inability to reproduce.

For the record, I don’t have children, but I can appreciate the value planed on them by those who have them. All these jealous, spiteful and childless people are just being immature.

James1 says:

12:00pm | 01/06/10

I do not think such sentiments are meant to hurt people like Aislinn and Elphaba.  The simple fact is having children changes the way you look at the world - instead of your own achievements being the most important to you, those of your child become paramount.  When you have a child, that child is your entire world.  And for some (particularly those lacking empathy) this flows over into every single thing they do.

So yes, as Elphaba says, it is an uncontrollable biological urge that all good parents have when they have children.  Your mum is right - mostly, they do not mean to offend, that is just how they see the world, and from their perspective, it is the only way to see the world.  But, if you choose not to or are unable to have children, this is something you will never understand, and it will always be annoying and mysterious.

Elphaba says:

12:41pm | 01/06/10

Hi James1,

You’re right, it does frustrate and I don’t get it - much like it must frustrate those with kids that ask me.  I think th frustration is mutual.

It’s the tone.  It’s patronising and weird.  I happen to agree that we are built to meet someone and have kids etc etc.  I feel odd that I don’t feel that urge.

Or maybe I’ve just spent too much time on my own.

I have a friend I see a couple of times a year, and the first question out of his mouth is “So, are you seeing someone?”  Even when he knows I’ve just been travelling, it’s always the first q.  Th first few times I told the truth, but last time I saw him, I said “Yep - been seeing someone for a few months”, the proceeded to describe one of my male friends.

He nodded briefly and said “Well, me and X have been going out for a few years and it’s great, blah blah blah”... turns out he just wanted a window to talk about his own relationship!  And he looked so relieved that I wasn’t one of those single defective people.

Sometimes a little white lie saves a lot of anxiety…

Elphaba says:

01:05pm | 01/06/10

Oh, DG, that’s very sad. :-(  But if you and your wife don’t love each other anymore, then it’s for the best that you don’t have them.

Nothing worse than having kids to save a marriage, or staying in one because of kids.  What an unecessary burden on such innocent parties!

My cousin’s father-in-law is Slovenian, and spotted me playing with the kids and giving them lollies and folding orgami with them at her birthday party.

He asked me when was I going to have children?  I said when I meet the right man.

He let out a huge guffaw and said “That’s a good answer!”

Sometimes the question has a funny outcome.

Emma says:

01:22pm | 01/06/10

Greek Snake:

And how immature are you?  Making spiteful, nasty comments just because people have the reasonable expectation that grown adults might respect their decisions or reproductive issues.  Like childless people are expected to do of people who do have children.

The primary goal of animals might be to reproduce however human beings are more higher evolved than that (well some of us are at any rate).  Human beings tend to assess whether it is appropriate to procreate, whether they will be decent, caring parents, do they have enough money to support a child, how difficult will it be to have fertility treatment, or do they have any genetic abnormalities they may pass down to their children.

I’ve never understood the argument that we are all animals and therefore obligated to reproduce.  It seems very black and white in an issue that is frankly far more complex than that.

“Your degrees, houses, cars and volunteer work won’t substitute as a genetic progression”

No, they won’t substitute a genetic progression but the degrees and volunteer work at least, will give us a better world to live in, something you clearly haven’t thought of.  In my mind, it’s quality of human beings, not sheer quantity that counts - the degeneration of the world should tell you that; millions of neglected, abused children, crime, and social issues.

MenarefromMars says:

02:10pm | 01/06/10

Aislinn,

Lets use an analogy:

You and your friends decide to to go to the pool in early summer. You to touch the water with your toes and its freezing. Two of your friends jump in carefree and emerge visibly shocked but insist “the water’s fine jump in!” - you don’t believe them.
A few minutes later the two that jumped in have acclimatised, and a having a ball, and insist that you and other join them. Another two jump in, and again you see them shivering for a while but eventually join the other in the pool games. You still aren’t convinced.

Its your point of view - but the fact is - the water is fine.

DM says:

05:55pm | 01/06/10

Mars - what if you can’t swim? lets make it the beach and add a shark.

luce says:

08:26pm | 01/06/10

Greek snake, we now have modern medicine which helps alter the fate of some of the weaker humans and helps protect ppl from potentially deadly diseases, plus we also have reproductive technology which helps some who can’t conceive naturally to be able to have children. So how exactly is your argument of evolution and survival of the fittest relevant today?

It is great that you can appreciate the value of children to parents, most ppl out there I am guessing can. What would be even better is if everyone regardless of their family circumstances also placed value on all individuals in the world regardless of whether they have children or not, everyone is somebodies child too are they not? I am about to have a child but I can still appreciate that ppl who don’t can make a very worthwhile contribution to this world and leave a legacy behind that is no less than others simply because they were childless. In fact in some cases the dedication and knowledge and extra time that some childless ppl devote their life to may in fact make the life of our children and their children better so who is anyone to judge them for not being a parent and making that their sole focus. We can all make a difference in this planet and having a child doesn’t automatically make someone better than another or vice versa.

Aislinn says:

09:51pm | 01/06/10

@ GreekSnake - I imagine your acrid remarks make you many enemies.  I feel sorry for you.  I think you’ve completely missed the point here.  Genetic predispositions, weeding out the weakest etc is an old well-known evolutionary fact.  Those comments don’t upset me in the slightest.

For the record, I’m not jealous of people with children.  Not in the slightest.  I guess you missed the part of my original post that that mentioned that I’m not even sure if I want to have children?

I study.  I work.  I travel.  I have great friends.  I babysit for my family and friends.  I volunteer at an aged-care facility.  I have a very full and satisfying life that I love, yet many narrow-minded people seem to assume that my life must be empty/not quite complete because I don’t have children.  In fact, sometimes I wonder if they envy my life and my freedom.  Heck, I’m not even sure why I’m justifying myself to you.  You’ll probably interpret my comments as you wish with further vitriol. 

What I don’t think you understand is that when people *constantly* start conversations with “Have you met anyone recently”... or surreptitiously throw in comments about “When are you having a kid”... it wears very thin, very quickly.  I’ve now reached a point where I answer the latter question with ‘October 11 2014’.  It confuses them and keeps them quiet.

MenarefromMars says:

08:01am | 02/06/10

DM: OK
a) You can’t swim - take a course, learn to swim.
- to clarify , this is not aimed at people who a clinically infertile just those who put it off like Aislinn.
b) Make it a beach and there are sharks - swim between the flags learn to live with justifiable risk and trust the lifesavers to spot them early and call you in if you are risk.
- ie don’t do anything stupid, like home birthing - and trust the hospital staff to help you make the right choices with birthing.

DM says:

09:44am | 02/06/10

Mars - What if you’re afraid of water?

I know where you are coming from, I am not one who never wants kids, as mentioned a couple of times I am doing something about it and becoming a single parent via IUDI in October/November, was just putting some thoughts out there

MenarefromMars says:

02:18pm | 02/06/10

DM:
You ask: What if you are afraid of water?

I’ll take that as a phobia and thus an anxiety disorder. You have an irrational fear of “water” even though you know its not going to harm you.

I guess the only answer is therapy. Talk to someone about your fears and over time you will be able to see that you can overcome them.

Analogies aside: I’ve never heard someone use that argument, I’ve never heard a woman say “I don’t want kids because I’m scared”. I guess the things to be scared of are:
a) miscarriage
b) complication at birth leading to death
c) being a bad parent
d) concerned about the bullying they might be subject to during their school years?
e) losing a child at an early age (car accident)

This list could go on I guess. But hey, better to have loved and lost than to never had loved at all?

DM says:

02:44pm | 02/06/10

Mars - ok but isn’t it better that people not have children and regret it rather than have children just to conform and regret that?

MenarefromMars says:

11:40pm | 02/06/10

DM: I’m not sure exactly what you mean by conforming but regretting it.

Lets say if you decided not to and later regret it, its emotionally tragic.
If you decide “to conform” which the term itself isn’t very uplifting, then regret it - which considering you are predetermined to be disappointed. Then it wouldn’t necessarily be tragic, although unwanted children often end up turning to crime - how do you know what kind of child you will have - they may turn out to be your best friend.

so to summarise
a) Don’t have kids and regret it - 100% irreversible
b) Have kids and regret it - not 100% certain.

That said don’t do something because you feel pressured to, do it because you want to. But just because you are being pressured to do it doesn’t mean you should dismiss doing it. Were you pressured to well at school? Do you regret getting a good education?

DM says:

09:36am | 03/06/10

Actually Mars I was pressured in school to kill myself and I didn’t do that, I have never in my life done something just because someone else wanted me to and I don’t see myself starting now, which is why I don’t care about father figure, I have a lot of male influences to call on and will be having a child on my own, I start the process in October

MenarefromMars says:

12:47pm | 03/06/10

DM: I’m sorry you had to endure tough time a school, I’m sure plenty of people did not enjoy it.

But it does confirm a theory I have about why people avoid having children. Which is: they fear their own children will go through similar experiences or worse. Be it school bullying or marriage breakup or any other range of difficult situations.

My situation pales into insignificance in comparison to yours, but I attended 7 different schools during my primary school years 1-6 - due to my parents being highly mobile. Luckily it stabilised when I entered high school. But I would never put my kids through that, having to make new friends all the time is not easy or fun.

Maybe a future article can address the fear factor. ie “who would want to bring a up a child in this day and age”.

DM says:

10:11am | 04/06/10

Mars - sorry I’m confused, how does my experience in school prove your point when I have mentioned before I will be starting to try for a baby end of the year???

MenarefromMars says:

02:19pm | 04/06/10

DM - I was referring to “What if you’re afraid of water?” wrt bullying.

But in your case, has it crossed your mind that maybe your child may have a tough time at school?

DM says:

05:37pm | 04/06/10

Mars - the thought has crossed my mind and I have in place a few things for the child, if the bullying gets started to tell the teacher or on a side note and this would work brilliant, take out the leader and the rest will leave it alone, i plan to have the child learn martial arts and dirty street fighting, in this day and age the way the world is going it’s going to need to be able to defend itself.
If it’s merely name calling I can draw on my own experiences to let them know that school will end and these bullies will find life hard in the real world and teach them how to tune them out if they can but if they get pushed too far and throw the first punch it will know that I don’t care if it gets suspended as long as it was standing up for itself

Adam says:

11:45am | 01/06/10

Please do it soon! I’m sick of those well meaning questions too. Got to the stage where I just point out all the reasons for any prospective partner to run screaming from me, but its becoming a self fullfilling prophesy

DM says:

01:00pm | 01/06/10

I just say to the people asking if I am still single, who else is going to love me as much as I do?

Nic says:

05:23pm | 01/06/10

oh yes, and like it’s so easy to do!! They just don’t know do they , what they are saying!

Ronk says:

03:38pm | 02/06/10

Yes but unfortunately they have mentioned the other one, “you can always use IVF”. As if that was always easy, morally acceptable, affordable or even possible. And of course it doesn’t make an infertile couple fertile, it’s just a technological work-around which does nothing to cure the problem. The couple is still infertile.

Bella says:

01:05pm | 01/06/10

Gosh Helena, you can’t win!

Moral of the story? People will pass on their unwanted, unsolicited, unappreciated, ill-informed, ignorant advice no matter what. You just can not please some people!  We will always be made to feel (by some) that what we have (and what many of us are very grateful for) is not good enough, or whatever decisions we’ve made are the wrong decisions. Perhaps a pair of earplugs are the only answer…..

Ronk says:

12:25pm | 02/06/10

Helena, your experience exactly mirrors mine.

I think the problem began with the adoption of the idea that “every child should be a wanted child”. So instead of a couple getting married and then accepting however many or few kids come along just from “doin’ what comes naturally”, people think a couple has to be either “trying” to have a kid or “trying” not to have one.

Cam says:

06:54pm | 01/06/10

well said, Bon.

DM says:

02:47pm | 01/06/10

I am a little older than you, 30 this year and I have no man in my life, was going to do the sperm donor from a website or go on holidays over ovulation time to be a single mother. I spoke to my mum and she is all for it as long as I go to a clinic as they are clean of any STI’s etc, will be having my consult with the doctor in July then starting treatment in October all going well.

Ronk says:

12:30pm | 02/06/10

If you find it “amusing” that your mother doesn’t want you to deliberately deprive her grandchild of his father, you are definitely not mature enough yet to be a mother.

KH says:

04:23pm | 01/06/10

How on earth can you be childless by choice!? It’s in our nature to reproduce! Have you considered the progress of the human race in your decision? Or would our gene pool be better off without you?

Bitten says:

04:39pm | 01/06/10

Wow KH, you sound like a wonderful courteous, tolerant, open-minded human being. I hope you’re bringing lots of people into this world who are rude arrogant just like you. What a poorly-mannered individual!

Elphaba says:

04:47pm | 01/06/10

KH, have you considered gross overpopulation in your decision?  The strain on resources? The inevitability that we will destroy this planet and face the horror of our own demise?

Ok, ok, so we probably are here to perpetuate the species.  There’s probably not a whole lot more to our existence than that.  But damn that pesky free will!  Just because so-and-so jumped of a cliff… you get the idea.

N says:

10:38am | 02/06/10

KH, there is no danger of the human population dying out. Or are you only concerned about people/society exactly like you? I personally don’t care about my genes dying out. My ego isn’t so great that I have to procreate in order to feel better about myself.

LA, as a childess by choice, I haven’t been confronted by people who cannot have children. The ones I have met have been very gracious in acceptiing that it is my choice irrespective of their desires to have children. They may also have learned not to judge people probably due to being judged themselves.

c says:

07:48pm | 05/06/10

As a person with children, I applaud your decision not to have any.  If you would rather die than not have a child - then you are passionate enough to have one.  Less than that and it is not the right thing to do.  It is such an enormous commitment and no child deserves to be brought into the world to less than devoted parents. 

People might ask why someone does not have children simply because they are curious to understand how they made their decision, not because they are questioning the correctness of the decision.

n says:

07:42pm | 05/06/10

I have four.  People always seem impressed when I tell them, which I am very proud to do.  Because usually when I get to tell people, it is when I am at work.  However, I avoid going out in public with my brood because I am sure people must look at us and assume we are a drain on the taxpayer.  We are not - I have always supported my family - but I’d assume the worst if I was looking at us.  I feel like wearing a sign declaring what I do for a living and how much I earn.

That being said, I have had nothing but beautiful remarks from strangers about my kids.  People can be so kind.

missy says:

04:23pm | 01/06/10

Emma,

What to do? first of all don’t be afraid that your childless friends are going to steal your own child. We are not monsters and many of us are quite capable of babysitting.

If someone reveals (without being prompted) that they’re having trouble conceiving, then best thing to say is “I’m really sorry to hear that, and I hope whatever you choose to do is successful. Let me know if you ever need someone to talk to about it”. Offer them a confidential ear whenever they need it to vent their frustrations out. If you leave it at that, then you might find the person will be more open with what they are going through. And there is nothing wrong with telling them that you don’t know what to say or don’t understand what is involved or what they are going through.

Oh and please don’t avoid us… we don’t have the plague, can still function well enough in society. We are not going to lose all control whenever we see a pregnant person, or a baby. You don’t have to make allowances for us for anything that involves kids. Please don’t assume that we won’t want to attend your child’s christening or birthday party, or don’t be afraid to tell us that you are expecting a baby. The more you hide from the issue, the more it becomes and issue, and the more we feel like the outcast. That is what people mean when they say please don’t pity us.

Don’t offer advice - and this goes for any subject at all - unless you have first hand experience. So please don’t say ‘Oh I’m sure it will happen soon’ or ‘have you tried standing on your head’, or ‘maybe you should just forget about it for while’. We don’t want to hear about your sister’s husband’s cousin getting pregnant after going to see some witch doctor in Africa.

Elphaba says:

04:24pm | 01/06/10

You’re afraid to leave your child with your childless friends?

Time to get some new friends. 

Failing that, why not just offer a hug?

Emma the socially awkward says:

12:18pm | 02/06/10

Thanks Missy that was mighty helpful. I am glad to hear that not all childless people want to steal my child. Please understand I have held that view due to a personal experience. Thankyou for changing my mind. I discussed this issue with some friends and they admitted they had no idea what to say either. Now I can tell them the appropriate response and hopefully stop people feeling awkward on both sides of the fence.

NEFFA says:

06:07pm | 01/06/10

mate, don’t give in to the peer pressure. Just pity those who have so little in their lives that this is the only topic of conversation they have.
Your right, its none of their business and telling is only going to open up the next question in the interrogation, IVF or adoption. It never ends so dont play the game.
Hold you head high and pour your energy into having a happy life.

MenarefromMars says:

08:38am | 02/06/10

I think its sad that in our current society people feel the need to shut out their friends and family from their problems. The reason you have friends and family is for the to support you.

Your mother’s reaction would be typical of the 7 stages of grief - she is in denial, but if you keep your communication up with your mother she will eventually accept it and help you with what decision you take in the future.

Don’t bottle it up.

This goes to everyone here who thinks being constantly prodded is an annoyance.

DM says:

09:50am | 02/06/10

I’m with Neffa, don’t give in to peer pressure, there are quite a number of people who never should have had children but continure to breed, there are some that acknowledge that they wont make good parents at all and they should be praised instead of vilified for recognising the fact and still not producing and making more work for shrinks (who I don’t believe in)

CNBC says:

11:18am | 02/06/10

AngryGirl, to be honest we gave up trying to reply to insensitive intrusiveness with diplomacy long ago. Now when it is demanded (which it really is, often by people we have just met) of us to explain our situation we simply say “no, we can’t have children, thanks for harping on about it”. Of course this is not in response to the innocent do you have kids, but in response to the following “WHY”. It is completely rude approach and goes against everything I stand for (like empathy) but I found it hard to fight fire with anything but fire when dealing with some people.

Fortunately we do have the support of our families who know our medical situations (both of us) so have no pressure there at least, a lot of other, more removed people still feel the need to comment, judge and ‘advise’ on our situation.

If you are comfortable doing it, sometimes being open and abrubt just stops people in their tracks - regardless of if it is none of their (expletive) business.

Take heart though that there are plenty of us in the world that value the wide and varied life choices other’s make or the circumstances they are trying to make the most of. Otherwise the world would be a very boring place indeed.

Ronk says:

12:08pm | 02/06/10

Why can’t you just say to your boss or anyone else who asks repeatedly, simply “We can’t have kids”. No need to go into any detail. If your boss is truly a good Christian he won’t ask again but will give you any sympathy and support you need. . You can’t really blame him for the fact that there are so many selfish couples around today who deliberately avoid or prevent having kids for years on end for no good reason. Naturally he suspects that you may be one of them.

Emma says:

01:14pm | 02/06/10

If your boss is truly a good Christian he won’t ask again but will give you any sympathy and support you need. . You can’t really blame him for the fact that there are so many selfish couples around today who deliberately avoid or prevent having kids for years on end for no good reason. Naturally he suspects that you may be one of them.

Oh the irony.  A so called ‘good Christian’ who gives ‘sympathy and support’ wouldn’t judge people for not having children, call them selfish or have suspicious ideas about their personal life - well not if they’re truly a good Christian.

Besides, from a workplace point of view, it’s entirely inappropriate for someone’s manager to ask them when they’re going to have children.  Your reproductive status has nothing to do with your work ability.

Mel says:

01:33pm | 02/06/10

Ronk - how is it selfish to not have children? why do people who have kids have them? because they want them not for the good of the planet or the country, I am sure that wasn’t going through their minds mid conception “oh I hope he/she grows up to wipe old peoples ass for minimum wage” if you are so set against people choosing not to have kids then why should kj_storm not find it amusing, you say she is depriving her child of a father. I am single and going to go it alone, am I selfish or helping the population growth????

Lucy says:

01:35pm | 02/06/10

“You can’t really blame him for the fact that there are so many selfish couples around today who deliberately avoid or prevent having kids for years on end for no good reason. “

what nonsense. those kids they’re not having are the kids who would have grown in to the smokers, over eaters, alcoholics and druggies who are such a burden to your precious tax dollars. They’re only thinking of you

Ronk says:

01:53pm | 02/06/10

Oh the irony, Emma. A good Christian certainly is required to judge the actions of himself and other people all the time. He certainly wouldn’t call couples selfish for not having children for reasons beyond their control. And I suppose you invariably conclude that any couple with no children must be involuntarily infertile, and never have suspicious ideas that they might have done something in their personal life to prevent it? Come on, pull the other one.

Don’t confuse “Christian” with “naive and stupid”. If a situation appears suspicious, naturally a Christian will be suspicious just like any other intelligent person.

Ronk says:

02:02pm | 02/06/10

Mel - of course it’s not selfish to not have children. Stop misrepresnting me.

Emma, maybe in your workplace there is a Dickensian strict ban on talking about any non-work-related topic. But fortunately most of our workplaces aren’t like that and our work colleagues have also become our friends.

Mel says:

02:38pm | 02/06/10

@Ronk - how am I misrepresenting you when you write things like this

“You can’t really blame him for the fact that there are so many selfish couples around today who deliberately avoid or prevent having kids for years on end for no good reason. Naturally he suspects that you may be one of them. “

If you don’t believe this to be true you need to add a disclaimer

NEFFA says:

03:00pm | 02/06/10

ronk, sorry to have to be the one to break it to you, but it is illegal for a boss to ask any female employee about her reproductive intentions, reason being said boss may then find a way to get rid of her and avoid having to deal with Maternity leave etc…

i also have to point out as a Christian, god made us all in his own image and so for the boss to suggest that this happy and healthy couple is less than perfect is saying that god is less than perfect. not very christian.

Ronk says:

03:27pm | 02/06/10

Mel, if you honestly claim to see no difference between my statement and your absurd and bizarre distortion of it, I’m not sure I can help you via a web comment site.

Ronk says:

04:00pm | 02/06/10

Really NEFFA? Please cite the law which states “it is illegal for a boss to ask any female employee about her reproductive intentions”? There is no such law. It is illegal for a boss to DISCRIMINATE against an employee or potential employee (regarding who to employ or promote etc.) based on his marital or parental status.

And sorry to have to be the one to break it to you, but although God made us perfect, we have all become less than perfect. Yes even you. 

It’s also very interesting to meet a “Christian” who uses the atheist affectation of calling God “god” and Christian “christian”; yet gives a capital M to “maternity”!

Mel says:

04:55pm | 02/06/10

really Ronk? your argument is about capital letters? maybe she’s at work trying to type and the shift didn’t go down properly and she was in a hurry. And I don’t think I am the only one to say that, it’s how it reads

You can’t really blame him for the fact that there are so many selfish couples around today who deliberately avoid or prevent having kids for years on end for no good reason. Naturally he suspects that you may be one of them

How does that remark state you are all cool with childless couples? read it again, I have read it 3 times and got some of my colleagues to as well and they agree with me

NEFFA says:

05:09pm | 02/06/10

Ronk, i find it just as interesting that you state, “It is illegal for a boss to DISCRIMINATE against an employee or potential employee (regarding who to employ or promote etc.) based on his marital or parental status. “

His? what about hers? and their? and everything in between

Emma says:

05:23pm | 02/06/10

“And I suppose you invariably conclude that any couple with no children must be involuntarily infertile, and never have suspicious ideas that they might have done something in their personal life to prevent it? Come on, pull the other one”

No Ronk, I don’t have ‘suspicious’ ideas about people who prevent pregnancy or who don’t have children, because I don’t particularly care BECAUSE ITS NONE OF MY BUSINESS.  The word suspicious implies that someone is doing something wrong and you know this, it’s why you used it.

I also wasn’t suggesting a Dickensian strict ban on anything in the workplace.  I was suggesting it is inappropriate for a manager to constantly ask why one of their employees wasn’t having children, as stated by OP.  Once might be ok, but to continue to ask on a weekly basis is just absurd.

Anne71 says:

12:49pm | 03/06/10

Oh, Angrygirl, I feel so sad for you. I’m just amazed that people can be so damn rude and nosey. I’ve already said in an earlier post that some friends of mine have been married about as long as you, and they don’t have kids either. I don’t know if it’s because they can’t, or don’t want to, or what the situation is, and quite frankly I couldn’t give a rat’s anyway, because it’s nothing to do with me or anybody else except them. If you really feel you’re close to “cracking it”, then perhaps it’s time to enlist the help of a trusted friend, who can then let those who keep asking the question know what the situation is and hopefully they will then have sufficient sensitivity to shut up about it.

Anne71 says:

01:00pm | 03/06/10

@Ronk, let me remind you of this quote from the Bible: “Judge not, lest ye be judged.”  You seem to think that being Christian is all about judging people by their actions (or inactions, as the case may be) Well, that’s not what I was taught in religion class in school. Christianity is supposed to be about “loving everybody as I (Jesus) have loved you” It’s supposed to be about accepting others as they are, not judging them because they don’t live the same way as you. Unfortunately, too many so-called Christians seem to think the same way as you, which is why I no longer waste my time with organised religion. Far too narrow-minded, judgmental and unforgiving - basically, everything Jesus was against. How ironic.

Ronk says:

09:42pm | 14/06/10

Anne71, if as you claim you have the bizarre idea that it’s wrong to judge people, why are you judging me? Not to mention that the assertion “it’s wrong to judge people” is itself a judgment.

NEFFA, you object to my non-use of politically-correct, grammatically incorrect pronpouns and neologisms? You sad little man.

Mel as I’m in a generous mood i’ll make it easy for you and your compreghension-challenged workmates: Compare and contrast the 3 statements:
1. ” there are so many selfish couples around today who deliberately avoid or prevent having kids for years on end for no good reason. “

2. “I’m all cool with childless couples”

3. “It is selfish to not have children”
#1 contradicts #3. #1 does not contradict #2.

Emma, yes of course I think that for a couple to deliberately prevent having kids for years on end for no good reason, is doing something wrong. Why do you try to restrict my right to believe or say this?

And you didn’t say “once might be OK”. You said “it’s ENTIRELY inappropriate for someone’s manager to ask them [sic] when they’re [sic] going to have children”. Surely “entirely” means “not even once”.

Proudly Nullagravida says:

04:01pm | 15/06/10

Ronk, what is so “wrong” with a person choosing not to have children? That is merely a value-statement. Your postings so far have not been able to provide any objective data or empirical analysis as to why not having children is wrong. It is only “wrong” as, perhaps as you may tell your kids “just because I say so.” And I have not seen anyone attempt to censure you. You are being asked to justify your position. This is what happens in a mature and rational discussion.

You say you have “my right to believe or say this”. Well here’s a newsflash; the childfree people have the same “right” to choose not to have children regardless of what you may think, or perhaps more accurately, feel.

You may want to check out the statistics on child abuse. If a child is emotionally abused, beaten, starved, sexually molested, raped, tortured, sodomised,  sold into sexual slavery or murdered, it is usually the child’s own parent who is responsible. This is not saying that all parents abuse children but most child abusers are parents. Most reasonable people would concur that, on a scale of morality, abusing kids is far more “wrong” than deliberately not having kids. Ergo, a person is not automatically a better person just because they have reproduced. On this comparative scale, childfree people are not doing something “wrong”. Actually, childfree people are no doing anything wrong period no more nor less than parents.

While most people remain indifferent about people who choose to be childfree, there seem to be a small number of parents who think – er – feel that being childfree is somehow “wrong”. They fit three broad types; the first is the parent who is filled with joy at parenthood and they somehow cannot comprehend why anyone would not want this same joy although they tend not to be too aggressive or judgemental. The second category seems to be the people who need affirmation from others’ decisions and choices. They are insecure about their choice and perceive the childfree as a direct criticism of their choice. Thirdly, there is the resentful parent; they find raising children is a burden and they are angered when they see the childfree dodging the bullet. Misery loves company and they want everyone else to suffer like them. Are you in these categories or can you provide actual evidence why being childfree is so “wrong”. You have a demonstrably poor record in responding to fair criticism without resorting to aggression and incoherence, so perhaps this is an opportunity for you to set things straight and articulate your position in a mature fashion.

BTS says:

06:34pm | 01/06/10

Takes ball of fluff and leaves the room… :(

bingo says:

09:33am | 03/06/10

THANKYOU for writing this!!
i couldn’t agree more - and thank god i’m not the only one who feels this way.  it’s like the last great taboo to admit you don’t want kids.

Infertile says:

09:56pm | 04/06/10

This blog is about “men and women who are involuntarily childless”, not people who dislike children and don’t want them. Maybe take your anti-child rant elsewhere, this isn’t really the place for it.

Emma says:

11:59am | 02/06/10

So if someone told you they didn’t have children, or own their own home or have a job you would feel awkward and show surprise?  Seriously?  Why wouldn’t you just talk to them about it?  Show interest in their life even though they don’t live exactly like you?  Gosh, I don’t know, couldn’t you possibly have a conversation about something outside of the tiny world you live in?

You need to get out more.  And learn some social skills.  Yes, feeling awkward is a fact of life at times but not for the reasons you mentioned.

Lil says:

12:09pm | 02/06/10

The point is not to make any assumptions about someone’s family life or reproductive status/health, and that the question of “So WHY don’t you have kids?” is rude, insensitive and intrusive. Wait for the other person to raise the issue first. Not so difficult to understand, if you’ve read some of the comments above.

Emma says:

01:02pm | 02/06/10

There’s no definitive answer to this - everyone’s different with different life experiences, morals and values.

If you’re worried about hurting someone’s feelings though, maybe you shouldn’t bring up the subject of children or other personal issues and talk about some generic thing to start off; people with kids pretty much start talking about them without much prompting anyway, it’s not hard to just talk to people is it?

When I’m in a social situation I read people’s non verbal cues - facial expression, body language, tone of voice - if they look a bit sad or uncomfortable, I steer the conversation away, or I might even (depending on how well i know them) acknowledge their feelings.  If there’s one thing most human beings have in common, it’s that they generally like talking about themselves.

I don’t have trouble talking to people generally, I don’t really understand why so many people with children feel so uncomfortable with people who don’t.  It’s not that hard, just be interested and kind and the rest will be easy.

Failing that, just hang out with other people with children.

Elphaba says:

01:11pm | 02/06/10

Don’t ask the question in the first place.  I find most people with children will tell you anyway whether you ask or not.  Think of some other topics to talk about without resorting to the child one first.

Mel says:

02:51pm | 02/06/10

why not just say oh ok, did you see the report about that sinkhole? Just change the topic, no need for awkward moments.

A lot of people ask the question to show off their own kids and share experiences, if you don’t share the experience of having kids then move on to another one they might share, books, movies etc

n says:

07:03pm | 05/06/10

On that reasoning, you should never ask anyone anything in case it touches a nerve.  Don’t ask about their parents as they might have recently passed away.  Don’t ask about their job as it might not be going well.  Don’t show an interest in anyone else.  Just focus on yourself.

If people spent less time thinking about themselves and more thinking about other people, they’d be a lot happier.

Muttley says:

02:20pm | 03/06/10

Balderdash. Most people have kids so its not an unreasonable conversation starter. No need to go into too many details if the answer is no. But if it yes, then off you go.

Mamfy says:

08:51pm | 04/06/10

I usually ask dog/cat/rugrats/fish/plants?
all in that order, at the one time so its one question, most people laugh and answer, if they say yes to plants I ask how do they not kill them…I have a black thumb, I have killed cactus!
quite frankly its a way to break the ice, not to delve into their private lives. I am happily married with 1.4 kids, 2 steps and 3 grand kids, I don’t care if people do or don’t have kids its totally up to them. I never ask, I always wait for them to bring it up..

MenarefromMars says:

11:16pm | 02/06/10

What a bizarre comment, do your children resent being born?

Or do you regret not being more involved in their upbringing?

You could always tell your kids to give up work and become the “lazy, fed and entertained” as in reality it sounds better than it actually is.

Take another look at your glass, you might find its half full….

mimi says:

07:15am | 26/08/10

no they are not: They don’t grow up to become great people. Well the become grown up dogs but you’ll still have to feed them, take them out running, stop them from tearing the place apart and organize their going to the toilet.

ready and waiting says:

09:57am | 05/06/10

Of course you can say sorry, this couple is mourning the loss of their child, even though they never had one, it is still a loss for them. The problem is that so many people offer advice or throw away lines, that they know can’t help you feel better baout the situation, but say it for something to say. If this is a close friend, let them know you are there for them, be a shoulder to cry on, understand that they will be grieving this loss and as with any other loss of life be supportive. Most of all remember they are experiencing pain and suffering and will likely never get over this, so it is best for you to be a good friend and not offer alternatives or hope, they have probaby already thought about the alternatives and it is for them to decide how to proceed. Good luck

kc says:

02:53pm | 05/06/10

i recommend saying, ‘i don’t know what to say but i am here for you.’ then follow it up by just being available. go for coffee, for a drink or whatever you usually do and if she starts talking, listen.
my best friend said, ‘i don’t know what to say - it’s just arse’. and as ineloquent as it was - it was perfect.

Meg says:

09:24am | 06/06/10

I agree JB. What kind of “friends” do you people have anyway??? I tell my friends everything and confide in them. They help me, I help them, we laugh and cry together. On the other hand, I tell my acqauintances very little. If you blab about your life to people you don’t trust then of course you’re going to get burned.