There are plenty of vast, empty spaces on this continent and many Australians The Punch spoke to last week would like to see them filled.

With facilities like this migrants would flock here wouldn't they?

In a survey The Punch ran testing Australians’ thoughts on population growth, the majority of respondents were open to the idea of building a new major city somewhere on the continent to relieve population pressure on other cities.

They were resolute about its ideal location: anywhere but near Sydney and Melbourne. John, 20, from Cronulla agreed with many survey respondents that Australia’s next Canberra, if built, should go somewhere on the country’s Western coast: “It should be somewhere between Perth and Broome.”

Many others said it should be in the Australian desert. Marifel, 23, of Darlinghurst, said: “I think [the new city] should go somewhere inland, in the middle of the country.”

Some even voted to try again with Canberra. “Build over it, or put [the new city] somewhere in the ACT,” said Daniel, 32, from Emu Heights.

Others were more sceptical. Many who rejected the idea came from regional centres and had seen their towns languish before moving away.

Oliver, 21, living in Potts Point, said the federal government should fix the cities Australia already has before building a new one.

Terry, 60, from Toowoomba in Queensland said Australia could grow its regional centres into major cities by encouraging people to move there. “You could grow Ballarat. Regional cities could be grown more,” he said.

The idea of building a new desert city appealed to people’s imaginations. But one respondent said it’s already been given a foreboding test run in another important forum: “Bad things happen when cities are built in deserts,” said Camilla, 20, from Rockdale. “In science fiction movies they’re usually taken over by robots.”

The Punch asked picnickers in Hyde Park where people should come from as Australia’s population grew. The question often drew a long, surprised pause. “As in, which country? You want me to choose a country?” said Chelsea, 23, from Bondi.

She answered the question like it was a no-brainer: “Anywhere,” she said.

Most respondents gave the question short shrift. Race didn’t count in their concerns about population growth. Richard, 51, from Yarrawarrah said: “I’m not fussed really, as long as they’re fully screened before.”

Angela, 21, from Redfern, said refugees should be Australia’s main source of immigration: “Countries that need it. Places where there are civil wars.” Terry from Toowoomba agreed: “Why not?” he said.
“Bring in people from disadvantaged nations,” said Kathy, 36, from Bondi.

But a few respondents were convinced Australia’s population growth should be driven only by its birth rate. Jessica, 21, from Concord said immigration-driven population growth could lead to greater tensions between different ethnic groups.

Almost everyone surveyed said population growth poses a problem for Australia. Just what worried them about it depended on how old they were, and how long they’d been living in Australia.

Many people cited one thing when asked what problem Australia faces from population growth: infrastructure.

Stress on the health system, housing shortages, housing affordability, transport, traffic, congestion. Mike, 60, of Ulladulla, identified a more fundamental problem: “A lack of vision from the government. A lack of planning for new infrastructure.”

Richard from Yarrawarra agreed: “There’s a lack of government will to build things.”

Then there’s the environment, missing from Australia’s political stage in recent months. The Punch’s survey respondents were strikingly unconcerned about the effect Australia’s population growth could have on its carbon emissions. Climate change is MIA in Australia’s population debate.

But some respondents thought Australia’s environment will struggle to cope with the projected 2050 population of 36 million. Cathy, 56, from Pymble said: “Environmentally it’ll have problems with pollution and water shortages.”

Andrew, 56, from Northbridge, said population growth in Australia is ecologically unsustainable. “The soil is too fragile, and the land is too dry,” he said.

Residents who’d moved to Australia recently were more concerned that population growth could lead to job shortages. Young people had similar worries.

Another age split was obvious over the ideal location of population growth in Australia. Regional centres were the most popular choice. But young people were more likely to pick state capitals as the best location. Some said regional centres were boring and lacked employment.

And many respondents who said regional centres were a better location for growth doubted people would move there. “It should happen in regional centres, but it’s not going to,” said Gabe, 23, from Pymble.

Most people The Punch spoke to around Sydney city last week weren’t overly concerned about population growth. Frank, 50, of Newtown said: “There is no problem with it. People will just adapt.” He said Australia should grow to more than 36 million people by 2050. “There’s plenty of room to grow,” he said.

Over half the respondents said Australia’s population should continue to grow. They were open to a bigger Australia. How open they were depended on whether or not they’d been stuck in a traffic jam on their way to the city that morning.

34 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • Eric says:

      06:12am | 19/04/10

      ‘Angela, 21, from Redfern, said refugees should be Australia’s main source of immigration: “Countries that need it. Places where there are civil wars.” Terry from Toowoomba agreed: “Why not?” he said.’

      That’s precisely the wrong answer. Bringing in people from couintries with civil wars will only import those same conflicts to Australia.

      We’ve seen it with ethnic violence between Tamil and Sinhalese immigrants from Sri Lanka, as well as those from the warring states of former Yugoslavia. Somali and Sudanese refugees are disproportionately represented in violent crime, as are their homelands.

      We should only take refugees from countries where conflicts have ended and tensions have settled down - not those with active civil wars still boiling.

    • Seano says:

      08:16am | 19/04/10

      Yeah because I was down the shops the other day and bugger me if there wasn’t a civil war going on. Which of course meant parking was a bitch.

    • KH says:

      08:32am | 19/04/10

      Whats happening? I’m agreeing with Eric?????? The world really has gone mad.

      The most likely refugees are from places where there are conflicts and ethnic violence, and they don’t just forget that when they get here, and for at least the first generation, they pass it on to their children.  It is known that much of the violence against Indians in Melbourne recently was not committed by locals born here, but recent immigrants of other ethnic backgrounds - notably the Somali and Sudanese communities, but the police aren’t allowed to tell us that because it isn’t PC.  If these respondants knew the truth, they probably wouldn’t be so keen to just take any old person who shows up here with a sad story.  The governments’ first priority should be to its’ citizens, and I for one would like them to be careful about who they let in for humanitarian reasons.

    • Beentheredonethat says:

      01:00pm | 19/04/10

      agreed Eric and we have to high an Asian population as well

    • Eric says:

      01:58pm | 19/04/10

      I’m more interested in the character of people and their willingness to assimilate into Australian society than their ethnicity. Asians can be as good as any other immigrants if they have the right attitude.

      I do worry, though that very high levels of immigration may result in a situation where native born Australians of all races are outnumbered by immigrant Australians. This could make integration more difficult.

    • persephone says:

      03:07pm | 19/04/10

      Yes, Eric, I hear the local aborigines bitching about this a lot.

    • Eric says:

      04:51pm | 19/04/10

      Indeed, persephone, the fate of the Aborigines is an excellent example of the results of uncontrolled immigration.

      We should try to do better.

    • Seano says:

      05:26pm | 19/04/10

      “This could make integration more difficult. ” ...especially with various civil wars being played out in our quiet surburban streets…

    • Adam Diver says:

      07:25am | 19/04/10

      Just throwing an idea out there but what about a seperate body responible for infrastructure expenditure. There is no incentive for 3year, 4 year term political parties to serously invest in water, power, transport etc so the responsibility should be taken away.

      Any Thoughts?

    • Roxy says:

      10:35am | 19/04/10

      That’s a really great idea but unlikely to be taken up because spending is often targeted to marginal seats and used as political leverage. If they could have it as an arm of the Reserve Bank, or similar, I think we could be confident of its independence. Otherwise who’s going to appoint this new body and from where? Perhaps they could force super high business earners to voluntarily (oxymoron I know) sit on such a body as they’ve already proved they’re competent with infrastructure and finance.

      Also, this Doug Dingwall (great name, by the way) seems like a pretty competent writer. Please give him something to do other than vox popping?

    • Maq says:

      11:40am | 19/04/10

      Unfortunately, it’s an integral part of the carrot-and-stick form of government that we have in Australia. While I agree it would be nice to have a forward-looking body to determine that infrastructure, it’s pretty important for the electorate to have a say in large scale planning issues, which can only generally occur through voting on an election where infrastructure issues are a key platform. While it has been unpopular for the most part, the Sydney desal project is a pretty good example: it’s a really forward looking piece of infrastructure ‘insurance’ - while you might think of it now as the NSW government buying votes in the last election, during the next water crisis it’ll be considered a ‘visionary’ piece of election spending.

    • Adam Diver says:

      01:29pm | 19/04/10

      Obviously I never thought through the detail of the plan (should I be working for labor?) I see your point with the electorate having a say but my issue is this system doesnt work because we have no infrastructure. Its not like we have a real say with who we vote anyway. If Rudd says I am going to build a broadband network and then doesnt do it nothing we can do until next election. If rudd doesn’t mention building a dam and then builds one within his term there is still nothing we can do about it.

      The more I think about it the better it sounds. Desalination, recycling or more dams would of already been completed in greater sydney had an independant body looked after the growing demands of the city. Plus I would say asecond airport would of been a reality by now as well smile

    • Anti Liberal/National Man. says:

      03:27pm | 19/04/10

      @ Adam, there are several huge holes in your argument. The Snowy Mountains, Great Ocean highway, Wivenhoe dam, Telegraph line from Adelaide to Darwin, etc, etc, etc. From 1788 till 1901 colonial governments on a 3 year election cycle built all kinds of infrastructure.

      From 1901 till 1945 again all manner of infrastructure built somehow?

      But look most closely at 1945 to 1972. We had a tsunami of immigration after WW2 from all over Britain & Europe. Simultaneously with a baby boom.

      There is infrastructure all over the place built during that time span with an exploding population, together with 3 year terms. There is only one difference between then & now. The quality of our politicians, bureaucrats has been worsening progressively since the 1960’s.

      Every problem/issue is presented as being insurmountable, difficult, complicated. Every excuse is trotted out, more spin doctoring, buck passing from local to state to federal & back again.

      There is only one problem. Everything else is a symptom of this problem. The system, “is broken” it does need fixing, with electoral reform. The major mistakes on both sides have been failing us. Obviously the red/green/getup/labour coalition has been worse than the conservative coalition, but only just.

      Abolishing the states, no limit on declaring donations to political parties. (declare every cent, no matter who its from)

      Any reform to increase accountability & transparency will make every other problem disappear quickly.

      Regards the formersnag & swinging voter.

    • Pete Kid says:

      08:04am | 19/04/10

      Are our political leaders up to the task of providing infrastructure and community to this religon of population growth? The trackrecord of Howard/Rudd/and planless Abbott provides the evidence that the answer is no.

      Our growth and quality of life is limited mainly by our lowest common denominators - major party political machines that pump out incompetent unimaginative robots. (And I won’t even start on the State Governments - it feels too much like kicking cripples.)

      I don’t know why one of the luckiest countries on the planet would even consider the ramblings of our leaders on this issue.

      They can’t even manage water in a dry country!

    • Formersnag The Child Protector. says:

      08:16am | 19/04/10

      @ Eric, agreed, “but wait there’s more”. If all the bleeding hearts think the civil wars in these countries are so bad. There should also be heaps of young orphaned children & babies around to adopt. These are the same loony, lefties who convinced couples to put off reproduction, until they became infertile after all.

      Feminism has also been used to make “modern western women” unattractive to us. So it is also an opportunity to import sensible, young, attractive, single women as part of our “skilled migration program” & as suggested by “Ali G” in his movie “Ali G, in da house”.

    • persephone says:

      09:51am | 19/04/10

      Maybe it’s not that the modern Western woman isn’t attractive to you—maybe you’re not attractive to her.

    • Beentheredonethat says:

      12:59pm | 19/04/10

      I agree with persephone, Western women probably find you very unattractive

    • Greek Snake says:

      02:10pm | 19/04/10

      Strangely, Eric and formersnag manage to always get in little fact about feminism contributing to the downfall of society. Spot on regarding the importing of women though.

      It happens so often that white middle-class males will effectively import a young partner, usually of asian/south-east asian origins because they are not oblivious to women’s traditional role in a family unit. On top of that, they have less tendency to bust his balls and are often more obedient… but that’s personal preference.

      I agree with the jist of the article though. Just 5 years ago it took me 45 minutes to drive into work in the city from a suburb 40 kms out. Come 2010, it now takes me 50 minutes to travel 8 kms into the city for work. Something is wrong alright.

    • Eric says:

      02:21pm | 19/04/10

      Oh crap, I forgot to mention feminism!

      Yeah, feminism makes everything worse.

      Phew, that was a close one.

    • Greek Snake says:

      03:31pm | 19/04/10

      Haha nice recovery.

      I wasn’t being sarcastic though…

    • Eric says:

      04:55pm | 19/04/10

      Oh well, GS, I was just having fun too. smile

    • KH says:

      08:38am | 19/04/10

      In many countries (particularly Europe, which is relatively small) there are multiple large cities - we already have foundations - example - in Victoria, what is wrong with developing Geelong as a second city? There is room around it, and room to go up - a little improvement to infrastructure (i.e. a fast train connection) and I think a lot of people would consider it.  Same for NSW - Wollongong and Newcastle?  Or even Canberra?  State governments just don’t think laterally - they assume the focus should be on the one main city.  The reason people don’t move to these places is the idea of a multi-hour commute to get to work - instead of trying to expand places like Melbourne (which is way too big physically as it is) and ending up with ghettos on the outer edges, how about putting some ideas, effort and money into the connections required to make another city an attractive option?  If you build it, they will come…...............

    • Joe says:

      08:33am | 19/04/10

      Its the state Labor governments - like QLD’s who have been in power for 20 years - and have failed to build infrastructure that is the problem. They have been building foot bridges and arts centers when we need large bridges, tunnels and dams. They have wasted 20 years of our lead.

    • persephone says:

      10:01am | 19/04/10

      Er, what?

      Beattie won in 1998.

      You might get away with saying ‘ten years’, but even that ignores that most State labor governments have been building tunnels and bridges.

      As for dams, the Coalition isn’t building them either, with the Victorian Opposition recently ruling them out.

    • Anti Liberal/National Man. says:

      12:32pm | 19/04/10

      @ Persephone, i am so glad you said that.

      The conservative govt before Beattie won in 1998 was only there for less than 2 years, minority govt with support from 1 independent, after an exhaustive electoral/legal challenge process on that 1 electorate.

      Ever since 1989 when Kevin Rudd was bureaucrat #1, Wayne Swan was ALP, apparatchik #1, we have with the exception of that tiny blip been stuck with “hard labour”.

      One of that 1989 red/green/getup/labour govt’s first moves, was to cancel plans for construction of the next, planned dam. Result SEQ nearly ran out of water.

      Furthermore the mid 90’s till GFC, 2008 was a hyper boom period with rivers of revenue flowing into QLD treasury. What do we have to show for it, as Joe said “a few foot bridges” or even worse wastage of taxes, like the new hospital buildings at PAH & RBWH.

      Regards the formersnag & swinging voter.

    • persephone says:

      01:59pm | 19/04/10

      So obviously the conservatives were really, really bad then.

      And must continue to be, or they’d have got government back by now.

    • Blossom says:

      09:19am | 19/04/10

      At the risk of sounding silly, why do we need so many unused Parks?. In my area the kids play footy ect in one large Park while no one even goes in the other 6 Parks. Why do we have this wasted space? Fair enough if kids played in it, but today kids don’t seem to want to play outside anyway, unless its some sort of orginized sport.  I have always thought it was a shame they never planted fruit trees around the outside of Parks so kids could grab an apple or an orange as they played, but I suppose then they would have to employ someone to take care of them and as it is the grass always seems to need mowing. Reclaim these Parks build a centre for refugees or housing.

    • Adam Diver says:

      10:18am | 19/04/10

      Parks are the soul of a community. Patronage may be down but I can assure you I would rather see an unused park instead of another piece of crap development any day. A city needs some green even just to look at whilst your stuck in traffic IMO

    • Louis McLennan says:

      09:27am | 19/04/10

      You guys think the cities have failing infrastructure. Imagine if you lived out west and you made up stuff all of the total vote. Imagine what the infrastructure would look like. Well that’s how it looks like for people out west. Unless it’s a government town nothing gets done. Largely due to inflated costs and people stuffing pockets somewhere in the process of building anything.

      I’ll say no to immigration and yes to personal liberty such as having a big family.

      Before our government goes spending any more money “fixing” this country. Remove the drains from the system (the crony mates and created “jobs” for voters). Please!

    • SkepDad says:

      10:44am | 19/04/10

      People will not, in general, live and work in satellite cities while their infrastructure remains substandard.

      That means dams, power stations, high-speed rail links, state of the art health care, well equipped schools and superbroadband communications to every home and business.

      Build it, offer incentives, and they will come.  Where are the consultations with visionary urban planners?  We get filters instead of fibre, and the government wonders why our cities are choking.

    • 70 plus says:

      11:26am | 19/04/10

      I was involved in agriculture in PNG & the BSIP 40 years ago, Australia could easily support many more people especially across our empty tropical north from Queensland to Darwin throught to Western Australia. The idea of locking up this undeveloped land for National Parks sits well with city folk in Brisbane,Melbourne & Sydney but limits Australia’s and particularily their current occupants options as the nation moves to a much higher population.
      Australia should be thinking of another large city in this reasonably undeveloped area possibly on the Ord River irrigation area.  We straight after the war imported many migrant workers for the Snowy Scheme. They had to work outside the cities as a part of their requirement to become Australian citizens. we could do the same again. Accepting people by the hundreds and placing them on centerlink payments in our already crowded cities is the road to disaster.

    • Serious says:

      09:39pm | 19/04/10

      I wonder how many people recall the Department of Urban and Regional Development established by Gough Whitlam in the 1970’s.  One of the main functions of this Department was to facilitate the decentralisation of Australia and Australian cities by providing the infrastructure in large regional centres that would allow them to grow and create jobs in those areas.  Bathurst/Orange and Albury /Wodonga were the two centres established to initiate the program. After The Dismissal and the return of the Liberals to power in 1975 the Department was abolished and the proposals just mentioned were put aside as too expensive (Mr Abbott would probably have said it required a ‘great big new tax’) but in any case the shortsightedness of the Liberals saw our cities continue to grow and our population growth continue along the coastline.  If the proposals had been proceeded with places such as Sydney would not have the congestion, pollution and water shortages, to the same degree, that we now have.  Oh for some forward planning.

    • sam says:

      12:26am | 20/04/10

      “Bad things happen when cities are built in deserts. In science fiction movies they’re usually taken over by robots.”

      I like the sound of Camilla, 20, from Rockdale. She sounds like my sort of girl.

    • wendy says:

      02:36pm | 20/04/10

      Plenty of population growth would accur when we create many channels allowing the deep blue sea to find its own level inland and then build many new ports and towns on the new inland sea areas all around the vast desert coastal regions not in use as yet and build desalination plants to enable agriculture to florish there as well and sustain all the needed water for the new towns .Australia has much land to be developed in this manner.Where is the vision that I have.

 

Facebook Recommendations

Read all about it

Punch live

Up to the minute Twitter chatter

Anthony Sharwood

Dementor doing a good job for sweden #sbseurovision

Anthony Sharwood

Ukraine song pinches chord progression from The Verve's Bittersweet Symphony. Fo real #sbseurovision

Anthony Sharwood

RT @GerardDaffy: @antsharwood all the talk over there is the grannies will win.they entered to get a church built,feelgood story

Anthony Sharwood

These peole insult my grandmothjer, who was born in minsk, belarus #sbseurovision

Recent posts

The latest and greatest

Abbott’s crass logic: trash the Parliament in order save it

Abbott’s crass logic: trash the Parliament in order save it

An email was sent to almost every politician in Australia this week saying that someone should cut off…

Our special forces don’t always need special treatment

Our special forces don’t always need special treatment

We admire them, but we’re not entirely sure why. We allow them to operate in the shadows; we rarely…

A good holiday is about unrest, not rest

A good holiday is about unrest, not rest

Like a fat full-stop, it lay in my hand. A small orange – not exactly fresh, but purchased anyway…

Nosebleed Section

choice ringside rantings

From: They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

Michael S says:

"A teacher at Geelong Grammar had criticised her for using words that were too long, which had left her confused and had made her doubt her ability to write essays. She became ''quite distressed'' when her English marks began to fall." I can sympathise. My scholastic mentors conveyed to me a causal relationship… [read more]

From: Welfare for breeders is a bonus for everyone

Change Up! says:

I have no problem paying my taxes. As a single, childless person on a very decent income, I can afford it and not have my life severely altered. Plus I understand that my taxes paying for things like schools, childcare and infrastructure is ultimately a good thing. A better community is better for me… [read more]

Gentle jabs to the ribs

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

A private school girl’s family is sueing her elite, extremely expensive private school for not… Read more

243 comments

Newsletter

Read all about it

Sign up to the free daily Punch newsletter