I have just returned from spending five weeks in India. The purpose of the trip was to deliver a number of papers and lectures, attending various conferences including the Indian Association for the Study of Australia – a three-day conference looking at the cultural interactions between the two nations.

Indian youths protest against Lebanese gangs in the author's haunt of Western Sydney. Pic: AFP

Leading up to the World Cup, there were obviously discussions about cricket, but the history is a lot more complicated than that, as our nations are intertwined in ways that most of us are ignorant of.

For example, Professor Deb Narayan Bandyopadhyay is researching the way our two countries collaborated during the World Fair in the nineteenth century. Researcher Amit Ranjan presented a personal account of his research into the grave of Australian Alice Garden who died of cholera in Calcutta in 1882: Why was she there? What kind of interactions did she represent?

Another issue that is often raised is the experience of Indian students in Australia - not only the attacks of last year, but the more general encounters between Australians and Indians. In the context of a history that includes the mistreatment of indigenous Australians and the infamous ‘White Australia Policy’, I am asked: ‘Is Australia a racist country?’

The question carries no malice or accusation – it is simply one that reflects how Australia has recently been portrayed in the media.

My response is immediate: “No, we are not a racist country. Countries are not racist, people can be racist, but on the whole, Australia is a pretty tolerant place. Cultural interactions are always more complex than we may recognise.”

Asked to elaborate, I discuss Australia’s history as a multicultural nation, everyday interactions between Australians and my own personal experiences. Sure, there have been times I have been called all sorts of things because of my long and complicated name and even the colour of my skin, but most of this is the surface-level insults of bullies who have nothing left in their bag of tricks.

Likewise, at my university based in the western suburbs of Sydney – yes, the land of the felafel – where over 100 nationalities interact, there is little evidence of racism or discrimination. Within classes, interactions are not always polite but it is a rare case when they are not respectful.

This is not to say that there are not elements of tension in our society. Far from it: my students often share negative experiences from the young woman wearing a hijab told to ‘go home’ (though her Australian family tree goes back over a century); the African student called a ‘refo’; the Cook Islander called a ‘FOB” (Fresh off the Boat).

This evidence of Australians getting on pretty well is not only evident in our experiences, but also in scholarly work. Academics Barbara Bloch and Tanja Dreher looked at everyday diversity and everyday racism in Southern Sydney.

They found that we simultaneously see the presence of high levels of cross-cultural mixing which includes an appreciation of the area’s culturally diverse population, while at the same time some strong prejudices. These prejudices can be about misunderstandings and concerns about issues such as economic restructuring where migrants can be an easy target.

This is not racism per se, but fear brought on by changes in the world that we cannot control. The problem, however, is that in a globalised and complex world, there seems less and less we can control and these sentiments can simmer and turn into something much more sinister.

This is important for the work of a colleague of mine, Prof. Kevin Dunn, who has found that that people with a grudge towards certain parts of the population feel emboldened to act on this if they feel the political climate is right.

So, here enters Scott Morrison and his now comments about the costs of the refugee funerals. He raised his concerns about the “the government is flying people to funerals” on the very day they were occurring. We later found out that he was also encouraging his colleagues to act on community concerns about the Muslim population and take an anti-Muslim stance through a discriminatory immigration policy.

As we know, Morrison apologised for the timing of his comments rather than what he said. This was followed by Tony Abbott defending Mr Morrison and congratulating him on being ‘man enough’ to admit that he got the timing wrong. Unfortunately Abbott said nothing about the sentiments of Morrison’s statements.

We can also combine this with the ongoing mission of South Australian Liberal senator Cory Bernardi to bash all things Muslim - even the way meals are prepared.

The point here is that we are not a racist country, but there are always tensions that exist in communities. These tensions can be about language - as we have seen in Belgium with the split between French and Dutch speakers. The tensions can also be about religion and they can emerge based on who has access to economic resources and who feels neglected.

In Australia we have seen tensions emerge based on race and ethnicity, and these have been linked with different waves of migrants: Greeks, Italians, Vietnamese, Lebanese and so on.

Exploiting these tensions for political and personal gain will not solve them, but will exacerbate them. And as this occurs, we will find ourselves living in a racist country – a country that most of us will not recognise.

138 comments

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    • Erick says:

      04:49am | 02/03/11

      The greatest expression of racism in Australia is multiculturalism. Multiculturalists see everything through the lenses of race, ethnicity and religion.

      Academics and politicians are among the chief instigators of this divisive policy, using wedge politics to split the community into conflicting factions, encouraging ghettoisation and separatism. And, of course, multiculturalists spend a great deal of time attacking white people, especially those of the Anglo-Saxon or Christian persuasions.

      Then, of course, when the inevitable problems arise, the multicultists blame their usual prey: the dreaded Great White Male.

    • Tedd says:

      08:19am | 02/03/11

      Erick,

      Your first two sentences invoke a number of fallacies - the converse accident fallacy, the contrary-to-facts hypothesis fallacy, and the composition fallacy .

      Your third sentence is worrying conspiracy.

    • iansand says:

      08:47am | 02/03/11

      My mental image of Erick involves someone on the wrong side of a mirror, and parallel Universes.

    • d says:

      08:51am | 02/03/11

      I am a white male aged 27…

      ANYTHING i say is racist so i just gave up caring long ago.

      I am to blame for all the wrongs of the world…

      I only have one rule, i dont care who you are or where you come from or what sky ferry you believe in or if you “love” animals or cantalopes… if you put in a hard days work then you are all good by me =)

    • acotrel says:

      08:51am | 02/03/11

      Erick, What is it with you, and this feminist thing?  You often get on about it.  Are you having problems with the little woman?

    • Lily J says:

      09:33am | 02/03/11

      Eric, do not allow those who attempt to discredit your argument derail you.  The biggest threat civilisation faces is the rise and rise of black, feminist/lesbian, misandrist, academic athiests.  They hold the power.  It is SO obvious, it beggars belief.  Many continue to ignore your warnings at their peril…......

    • Rosie says:

      09:50am | 02/03/11

      There we go again making out Erick has problems with this issue. We must learn to not just ignore what others say but allow them to say whatever because this is a free country and people are allowed to say whatever they want as long as they are not breaking the law.

      Why is it so important to some of us in our midst that we don’t discuss the different types of people that are now living in Australia through the colour of their skin, the food they eat, the God they worship etc even if at times it is meant as a joke or banter.

      We can’t even mention “Islam” without some of us becoming aware of what we are going to end up saying and coming to the conclusion that we are being racist. “Ignoring it doesn’t make it go away” but making a big thing about it only adds fuel to the fire.

      Racism was a European thing that was planted everywhere they went as a tool of white supremacy. It is global and would be foolish to say it only happens in Australia. Today we now do it to ourselves, we become the culprit, unprovoked perpetrator and initiators making some of us recipients.

      The most important thing to learn is that any political definition of racism are always created by people to benefit themselves. ( self serve interests ) exactly what Wilikie is on about at the moment!

      Today Australia is the best “melting pot” in the world and we should be proud of that fact

    • Cale says:

      10:03am | 02/03/11

      As a white Anglo-Celtic male, i think you’re an idiot Erick… I fully stand behind multiculturalism, and i don’t see how Anglo-Celtic culture is being negatively affected by other cultures at all… But you just sit there with your tin foil hat.

    • Sad Sad Reality says:

      02:53pm | 02/03/11

      Here we go again with Punchers playing the man and not the ball. You know what that usually means? You don’t know how to play the ball. Eric is right. If we are all equal in this multicultural society, why does one group of Australians receive over $40,000 in government assistance per head, when the rest receive only $18,000? Shouldn’t we all be treated equally? Equality, in a liberal western democracy, usually means the redistribution of wealth from the haves to the have-nots not equal treatment for all. Why? Could it be that if we were all treated equally some would very predictably rise while others would equally predictably fall? Could this be the reason we need enforced diversity quotas at workplaces? Could it also be the reason a white person cannot experience racism?

    • Sad Sad Reality says:

      02:58pm | 02/03/11

      Cale, why don’t you wear a T-shirt saying “Anglo-Celtic Pride” in Bankstown and soak up the multicultural bliss.

    • HappyCynic says:

      03:47pm | 02/03/11

      I don’t think SSR and Erick are racist at all.

      This is because to be racist you have to feel superior to other races, these two lovebirds don’t, they feel completely inferior.  They feel like they get treated worse than everyone else so they whinge and whine and moan, it’s the victim mentality.

      Of course the only person they have to blame about their lot in life is themselves, they relish their misery, cling to it like a lifeline because the only good thing they have in their sad miserable lives is their skill at whinging about how hard their lives are.

      HTFU princesses smile  people live much tougher lives than you pansies and they don’t whine anywhere near as much you do.

    • Sad Sad Reality says:

      04:28pm | 02/03/11

      HappyCynic, would you echo those sentiments to people using affirmative action to get a leg up into jobs they don’t deserve?

    • Erick says:

      05:25pm | 02/03/11

      Well said, SSR.

      None of our opponents can refute our arguments, so all they have is personal abuse. I count that as a sign of victory.

    • James Arvanitakis says:

      06:47am | 03/03/11

      Hey Erik

      Thanks for your well thought out response…

      Hilarious…. that is right… Scott Morrison that funny guy from overseas attacking all things Anglo. Senator Cory Bernardi, making all those remarks about white people and refusing to eat their food.

      Cheers, james

    • scaarjes says:

      07:51pm | 25/03/11

      Not sure about you guys but I’m pretty sure most of the time Erick is taking the piss (with a snippet of truth) and I think it’s hilarious.

      Thanks again Erick!

    • Tedd says:

      06:09am | 02/03/11

      References to “capitalise[ing] on the electorate’s growing concerns” about race or religion have no place in modern society, especially from someone like Scott Morrison who has previously espoused that govt “get behind what are called faith-based programs”.

      “The electorates growing concerns” is just code for a politician amplifying his or his tribes own pet projects, as Bernardi also does.

      The title of this article is spot on.

    • Pasty and proud says:

      06:53am | 02/03/11

      You can only be racist if you are white. When the Indian media scram racist they paint a picture of white anglo/celtic people in white hoods. If you mention that most of the attacks are perpertrated by people of Middle Eastern or African background then the racist labelling machine comes out again seeking white skin to adhere to. I do not like racism and I definitely do not like being a victim of it just because of the pale colour of my skin. I is about time this issue was addressed as well.

    • Grumpy says:

      09:29am | 02/03/11

      I agree, lets burn a cross.

    • fml says:

      03:19pm | 02/03/11

      No you are racist if you make claims like,
      “that most of the attacks are perpertrated by people of Middle Eastern or African background ” With out having any evidence. And when its based purely on prejudices and then make out like you are the victim.

    • Pasty and proud says:

      05:24pm | 02/03/11

      @fml, I strongly suggest you speak to some members of the police force that work around North Melbourne. It was widely reported a couple of years ago during the “spate of attacks” on Indian taxi drivers that 7 of the 9 attacks were perpetrated by persons of African heritage and the other 2 were thought to be of Middle eastern heritage. I do not like the figures either, but I really object to being called racist because of them.

    • acotrel says:

      06:54am | 02/03/11

      The fact that we ever tolerated the asylum seeker issue being used politically, proves conclusively that we’re a lot of paranoid racist b@stards.

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      01:24pm | 02/03/11

      Why - we have a right to raise these issues. 
       
      I am sick of feeling like a stranger in my own country. And *I* have nowhere else to go. They can at least go home if they get sick of it here.

    • Reality Check says:

      07:00am | 02/03/11

      This constant cat-calling “Australians are racists!” seems to be some sort of pathology. It particularly affects the white elite who run the media, and this is not just “headline grabbing”. The writers never include themselves in the accusation (they usually include an anecdote about how they enjoy felafels), and the “racists” don’t live in their trendy anglo ghettos like Balmain and Newtown. No, the “racists” are those other people, the ones in the marginal electorates of the western suburbs. We heard so much of this nonsense during the bogus “big Australia” debate during the last election that I almost wanted to throw up my felafels.

    • George says:

      07:01am | 02/03/11

      So inferring from what you just wrote if ethnic groups ‘bash’ the tripe out of each other say in the Sydney Western suburbs this is not symptomatic of racial intolerance perpetrated within the wider Australian community but merely as you say ’ evidence of Australians getting on pretty well’?

      I hate to see your world where Aussies go for each others throat for whatever reason?

      Perhaps you should devote some scholarly work in ascertaining the issue of emerging racial tensions ( yes they are real) within the wider community and how the emerging ethnic communities isolate and exclude themselves from the wider community, go against the grain of community norms and haggle for superiority over a piece of turf with other ethnic groups whilst never insisting equality but preference from, again, the wider community.

      BTW: I’m sure you are aware that the reported ‘‘attacks’ against Indian students last year were in most cases perpetrated by Indian nationals themselves and in one instance an attack ‘faked’ by an Indian student to defraud an Insurance company.

    • acotrel says:

      08:27am | 02/03/11

      @ George
      ‘I hate to see your world where Aussies go for each others throat for whatever reason?’

      What do you think the effect would be of ‘using the asylum seeker issue as wedge politics’, as suggested by Scott Morrison?  A large proportion of our population are newcomers, and we want to start bashing them for political purposes?  The Liberal Party has got ants in its pants!

    • fml says:

      03:17pm | 02/03/11

      “how the emerging ethnic communities isolate and exclude themselves from the wider community, go against the grain of community norms and haggle for superiority over a piece of turf with other ethnic groups whilst never insisting equality but preference from, again, the wider community”

      So Australians dont converge in Clapham and Shephards bush and go to the walkabout? while in London. Idiot. Australian “Tourists” Are known as the worst in europe, but we wear that as a badge of honor.

    • Dark Hourse says:

      07:03am | 02/03/11

      While I think it’s true that most Australian’s aren’t racist, there are legitimate concerns about Islam, which any thinking person realises isn’t a race. Evidence from every other Western country with muslim immigrants is in trouble dealing with their unwillingness to integrate and demands to install Islamic caliphates in their host countries. Although our population of muslims is relatively low at present, there are thousands immigrating which suggests that we will have the considerable problems of Europe in the near future. It makes sense to deal with it while it’s still easy to do so and Senator Cory Bernardi was lauded by many of us for his statements.

      Cowardice and silence in the face of creeping Sharia and Islamisation of our countries leads to victims as is reported in this well-written piece from the US: http://www.islamist-watch.org/blog/2011/02/sexual-slavery-in-britain-and-its-pc-enablers

      While we the people might be concerned about Islamisation of our country, we aren’t all racist. However, we do have governments (all of them) that provide services, benefits and special programs for one group of Australians based on their race. While the people aren’t racist, many of Australian Governments’ programs are and this needs to be dealt with.

    • Grumpy says:

      09:32am | 02/03/11

      lol islamist watch…are you joking?...see the Australian racist doesnt understand racism, its an “opinion”. Theyre Sneaky little buggers.

    • deb says:

      07:08am | 02/03/11

      Living in a small town that has a drifting population of seasonal workers i often see young people of all races staying here for a month or two.A very tight community that hasnt even accepted me,a white aussie,after six years
      I wouldnt like to be the seasonal worker.But maybe ,yes,they get to move on.One concession the local supermarket has made,super large bags of rice and asian foods on the shelves.
      Good luck to them anyway,get to travel and see the world.
      Did it myself once years ago.

    • acotrel says:

      08:16am | 02/03/11

      Deb, In our town there are still people who call Italians ‘eyetalians’, so what hope have islamics got?

    • Markus says:

      09:07am | 02/03/11

      Oh dear God, acotrel, not a minor pronunciation difference, that’s barely a step away from Eyetalian genocide!

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      10:37am | 02/03/11

      @Markus - You go upto the next Italian you see & call them an ‘eyetie’ - you’ll very quickly see the importance of this so called ‘pronunciation difference’

    • Adam Diver says:

      07:29am | 02/03/11

      A few points on this

      “the government is flying people to funerals”

      Insensitive definately, racist? You will have to explain that one to me.

      “people with a grudge towards certain parts of the population feel emboldened to act on this if they feel the political climate is right.”

      The opposite of this is over the top PC (or head in the sand, if we don’t talk about it then it is not a problem) where honesty is the loser. I think we can agree that neither option is beneficial.

      “We later found out that he was also encouraging his colleagues to act on community concerns about the Muslim population”

      Evidence please, also muslim is not a race, I think you are thinking of bigot rather than racist

      And off topic…

      “Professor Deb Narayan Bandyopadhyay is researching the way our two countries collaborated during the World Fair in the nineteenth century. Researcher Amit Ranjan presented a personal account of his research into the grave of Australian Alice Garden who died of cholera in Calcutta in 1882”.

      Is this what academia gets up too these days? Honestly?

    • Seanr says:

      02:08pm | 02/03/11

      I tried to respond with agreement to your comment Adam 3 hours ago but apparently The Punch doesn’t like people referencing white experiences of racism, must be too ‘off message’ for them. I’ll see how this goes.

    • Greypower says:

      07:45am | 02/03/11

      I was teased at school 70 years ago because I had red hair (from my convict great grandfather)  and as my last name was Longhurst and I was a chatterbox I was called Margaret Longtongue! Rene Karpoosis whose Dad was Greek (I think) was called a wog.

      The point being that most of us have something different about us and that’s what stands out and that’s what cops it.  Rene and I and others were teased because of our differences.

      If I’m teased because of red hair, it’s not racist but if you have a funny last name or slanted eyes and you are teased, it’s called racism! Apply the same logic to adults and to so called insults—- well, it’s ridiculous!

    • Grumpy says:

      08:51am | 02/03/11

      But people arent saying you shouldnt be allowed into the country because of your hair colour. Huge difference between what brat kids say and immigration policy..Im Sure that Rene’s parents were victims of much stronger racism when they arrived here. Its chalk and cheese.

    • Warren says:

      09:12am | 02/03/11

      Racism and bigotry in all forms is to be utterly deplored. Except for rangers. They are a different species and to be mocked.

    • Seanr says:

      11:33am | 02/03/11

      Disagree Grumpy, no one is saying people can’t come to this country because of their skin colour, to claim otherwise is wrong and inflammatory..

      I was physically and mentally bullied throughout school and afterwards because I’m short. I can’t do anything about my height but why are short jokes, discrimination etc allowed by not ‘racist’ jokes..both are wrong but society tolerates one

    • Grumpy says:

      03:48pm | 02/03/11

      People are saying Islamic people shouldnt come here…Ironically, Islamic people tend to be darker or black but i understand that isnt the issue. The issue is apparent integration and “assimilation”....lol Ahh racists, is there anyone stupider.

    • Secular Moleculer says:

      07:46am | 02/03/11

      Australia is already a country I don’t recognise as we welcome people with cultulral and belief systems which are as archaic as the ‘ark’.  Unless new comers accept the country they live in and its cultlure, with all its failures, then they cannot assimilate or integrate and will always be a problem as in Europe and Scandanavia.  Burqas, veils, turbans and other head gear should only be worn at home or in places of worship of the man made god and Australia must remain secular.  All religious instruction should be outside public schools and be included in ancient history classes.

    • DA says:

      09:07am | 02/03/11

      Should we include Crosses people wear around their necks as items that “should only be worn at home or in places of worship”?

    • grumpy old man says:

      07:47am | 02/03/11

      The Oxford Dictionary defines racism thus:

      the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race , especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

      On this definition, Australia is not a racist country ( how can a piece of dirt be racist?) , more correctly, the population of Australia is, in general, not racist.
      There may be some in the population of Australia who are intolerant of others race, religion, sexual preferences, hair colour, size, shape and all the other little peculiarities that ‘make us an interesting species, but racist?, I don’t think so.

      Once upon a time, we had the ability to have a laugh at ourselves and our origins. As a pom who lived in NZ for a period of time, I have been the butt of a few jokes, but thats what they were, and I always had the criminal jokes to fall back on in response to comments about bathing habits or games to play with sheep. Those of a politically correct persuasion have been quite successful at making such jokes and banter between people unacceptable"and in some cases illegal. This is a shame, I wear my origins as a badge of pride, and the recognition implied by the old fashioned, and now politically incorrect jokes and banter is sorely missed. We are really the poorer for its absence.

    • Grumpy says:

      09:02am | 02/03/11

      are you kidding? By the Definition you have given Australians would be the most racist people on the planet. Australians think they are better than everyone.

    • gelfen says:

      02:57pm | 02/03/11

      No Grumpy, we’re not.  By any definition “Australian” is not a race.  It is a nationality, which arguably has a defining set of cultural atributes.

      Australians thinking they are better than everyone else is not racism - it is (justifiable) national and cultural pride.

    • Leigh says:

      07:55am | 02/03/11

      The problem James, is everytime anyone raises some of the problems the community is experiencing they are immediately set upon and howled down as rascist.  This is regardless of what they have actually said.
      All over the world western democracies are admitting they have serious problems with their multiculturalism policies, but as always, here in Australia we don’t learn from the mistakes of others, we just say “we’re different” and carry on down the same path.
      The time for this debate is now, and until one side of politics stops screaming “RACIST” we will never be able to have a grown up debate about the issues.

    • PTom says:

      12:55pm | 02/03/11

      Like those that complained that they could not get bacon at certain McDonald or KFC. This was done to carter for less then 1.7% of the population or even 30% in those areas.  But why is there not a Hindu Macdonald somehwere around Harris Park where there is a large sub-conteint population?

      How hard would it have been to carter for all at the same time?

      I personal don’t care for bacon on my burgars nor do I care if my chickens are killed using Hafal.

    • AdamC says:

      08:24am | 02/03/11

      “This is important for the work of a colleague of mine, Prof. Kevin Dunn, who has found that that people with a grudge towards certain parts of the population feel emboldened to act on this if they feel the political climate is right.”

      So we have to read past half way before we even get to find out the underlying contention of the article? I don’t know what is worse about this post, the tiresome, tired nonsense about pollies fomenting racism (which, as we know, is merely a method to shut down legitimate debate) or the the stodgy, rambling way it has been written.

    • Tedd says:

      09:07am | 02/03/11

      how about provide some legitimate debate then, AdamC?

      preferably with reference to values per se, not some vague Aussie or Judeo-Christian ones,

    • Adam Diver says:

      09:54am | 02/03/11

      @ Tedd

      Equality for women

    • fml says:

      03:42pm | 02/03/11

      @Adam driver

      Women are equal in australia. You discriminate you break the law and are punished irrespective of race.

      What should we do with the Australians that abuse women? I say throw them in jail, what should we do when an immigrant abuses woman, i say throw them in jail.

      To believe that every single person from an over seas country believes in a stereo typical social construct is extremely naive. Obviously some do, but thats why we have laws.

      Next Question?

    • Markus says:

      07:27pm | 02/03/11

      “what should we do when an immigrant abuses woman, i say throw them in jail”
      Racist!

    • ibast says:

      08:36am | 02/03/11

      “The point here is that we are not a racist country, but there are always tensions that exist in communities.

      Exploiting these tensions for political and personal gain will not solve them, but will exacerbate them. And as this occurs, we will find ourselves living in a racist country – a country that most of us will not recognise”

      Spot on.  We had a Prime Minister who used propaganda to further his career to the moral detriment of this great country.  We now have an opposition leader following that trend.

      Australia has traditional not been racist.  Just culturally protective.  This recent exploitation of this cultural sensitiveness has sullied the name of all Australians and caused us to be unfairly labeled.

      What’s worse is that when this negative propaganda is used it takes generations to reverse the effect.  That’s a massive price to pay for some small minded mans political ambition.

    • Markus says:

      08:36am | 02/03/11

      Racism is an inherent belief of superiority based on the colour of ones skin. The majority of what is supposedly racial tension in Australia is actually emanating from cultural and religious differences.
      There is nothing racist about these, as unlike a person’s skin colour, cultural and religious beliefs can change.

      Believing that one’s culture is superior to others is not bigotry either. It is a truly ignorant person that believes all cultures are of equal worth, when some cultures never even discovered the wheel, and in others women are still unable to leave the house without a male relative, and can be stoned to death for adultery (while the man involved is not).

    • acotrel says:

      08:46am | 02/03/11

      @Markus.  Are you totally ignorant about the changes occurring in the Arab states in North Africa and the Middle East.  Do you really believe that repressive cultures can exist alongside liberal democratic ones in the long term?

    • Tedd says:

      09:03am | 02/03/11

      “It is a truly ignorant person that believes all cultures are of equal worth, when some cultures never even discovered the wheel”

      That has to be the non-sequitur of the year! or decade?

      More seriously” “Believing that one’s culture is superior to others is not bigotry either” is racist bigotry.

      Do you not see common threads of family endeavour, seeking the best for ones children, for one’s community etc are not common to all cultures?

      The things that unite humanity are greater than the things that divide it

    • Leigh says:

      09:07am | 02/03/11

      acotrel, please list which liberal democratic cultures currently exist in North Africa and middle east.

      And who’s to say that the changes in the middle east will turn out to be liberal democratic? Maybe stop celebrating twiiter changing the world and let’s just sit back and see what happens first hey…

      Markus, spot on.  The problem we have now is those who empower other cultures to bring these abhorent practices here.  By all means come to Australia, but bring with you only the best of your culture, leave your stone age beliefs behind…or don’t come in the first place if your preference is to maintain those beliefs and practices.

    • Markus says:

      09:32am | 02/03/11

      @acotrel, I am fully aware of the changes occurring in North Africa and the Middle East.
      I am yet to see whether they are going to be working toward a liberal democracy, or whether they will just replace a repressive dictatorship with an equally repressive dictatorship/theocracy.

      “Do you really believe that repressive cultures can exist alongside liberal democratic ones in the long term?”
      If memory serves me, it was the democratic Rome that fell to the repressive cultures of the tribal hordes.

    • Markus says:

      09:35am | 02/03/11

      And besides, if they do overthrow their oppressive fundamentalist Islamic regimes for liberal democracries, would that not just be proving my point that some cultures are superior to others?

    • Kafir says:

      09:52am | 02/03/11

      @acotrel, there is nothing yet showing that the change in the middle east are of democratic nature. For all we know, all these countries may become radical Islamic states. The People there are living in relative isolation and not along liberal and democratic states. Look at Muslim migration to Western Europe. Even living within a democracy for two generations does not make them any more liberal or inclined towards democracy.

    • Adam Diver says:

      10:04am | 02/03/11

      @ Acetrol - It seems you are the ignorant one

      @ Markus - It is definately still bigoted, but the opposite is being ignorant.

      @ Tedd - There are many things that are common throughout humanity, not all of them good, take off your rose-tinted glasses

    • Markus says:

      10:34am | 02/03/11

      @Adam Diver, fair call. What I should have written is that it is not bigoted to think that certain aspects of one’s culture are superior to others.
      I’m definitely not naive enough to think that there aren’t parts of our culture that could defintely be improved upon.
      Blindly claiming that embracing other cultures can only benefit our own, without any critical analysis of the negatives that come with, is definitely not the way to go about this though.

    • Tedd says:

      11:05am | 02/03/11

      Markus (0.935am),

      overthrowing the Islamic regimes in north Africa for liberal democracries, would not be proving my point that some cultures are superior to others, as those cultures will probably not change as the cultures are unlikely to change as they are already modern, as media reports have shown extensively.

      Moreover, they have not been “oppressive fundamentalist Islamic regimes”, they have just been authoritarian or dictatorships.

      Democratic Rome fell due to the introduction of a repressive culture that many currently laud - a then new religion ....

      Adam Diver, I was well aware I was wearing rose-coloured glasses, but it is a reasonable assertion that overall the majority of humanity is good, and has common goals for its communities and societies, and these outweigh the bad.

    • Markus says:

      12:12pm | 02/03/11

      @Tedd, liberal democracies are a Western concept. Introducing them at all (I’ll remain sceptical until I see it) would be a change to their existing culture, I would say an improvement.
      The change from repressive dictatorship to Islamic regime between my comments was a sort of wishful thinking on my part that Iran will follow suit.

      Not even going to attempt to correct your blaming of the collapse of Rome solely on Christianity.

      “but it is a reasonable assertion that overall the majority of humanity is good” It is also a reasonable assertion that not all of it is, and not every part of a culture will positively influence our current culture.
      Crying ‘racist’ every time somebody points this out is reckless.

    • Tedd says:

      12:29pm | 02/03/11

      Markus, introducing liberal democracies is just a change of government administration, and not a change in culture in those countries’ societies - as I said, have a look at the peaceful and fairly organised ways the uprising peoples of Egypt and Libya have demonstrated to visiting television crews.

    • Tedd says:

      02:04pm | 02/03/11

      Markus, you prove my point

      From the second link you posted - “A crowd of *angry supporters of President Hosni Mubarak* circled around Cooper and his crew, hit him on the head four times and threw bottles and water at them, according to an interview with him posted on the Huffington Post.”

      From the third link - “They ran out and ran right into the *pro Mubarak crowd* and were severely beaten.”

      Of course some of the demonstrations and pro-current-govt and uprising groups have and will clash in these major upheavals, but

      >> I was referring to their organisation amongst themselves, as currently reasonably lawless, as being very civilised and empathetic to each other<<

      No doubt you will see the glass as half empty, or not see the wood for the trees.

    • Tedd says:

      02:12pm | 02/03/11

      claification - I was referring to the organisation and conduct of *the pro-democracy side* amongst themselves

    • cuss says:

      08:51am | 02/03/11

      Has nobody noticed saying “Australians are Racist” is in fact a Racist comment. The term Racism has taken on a new meaning over the past decade it no longer means a deep felt hatred or indoctrinated discrimination of a particular race or religion.The Racism card is usually played by the minority to shutdown progressive discussion of the majority, so they minority can have thier way.

      Have no fear of being labelled a racist for expression of your opinion, you just need to be the one to call racist first….

    • TheRealDave says:

      09:11am | 02/03/11

      The term ‘racism’ is now colloquial for: “I’m a minority and you disagree with my opinion or what I want therefore you are one of the most despicable forms of life in the world - a racist’.

      Any connection to its former meaning are coincidental.

    • Grumpy says:

      09:26am | 02/03/11

      Progressive discussion, thats a good way to put it lol.

    • Markus says:

      09:41am | 02/03/11

      I make sure to call out anyone who uses the term racist to describe anything other than an inherent belief of superiority on the basis of race as the idiot they are.

      No, discrimination based on cultural or religious differences, or even nationality, is not racism. Xenophobia yes, racism no.
      If people are going to intentionally use a word incorrectly to support their argument, then I am going to continue to ridicule them for it smile

    • Anna C says:

      09:04am | 02/03/11

      It is not so much that we are rascist per say but sometimes you can feel under seige by the huge influx of immigrants.  I think that the Federal Government has gone too far with the level of immigration allowed over the last 5 years.  When you are sitting in a traffic jam going nowhere fast or trying to buy a house or access services, every thing seems so much harder and takes so much longer cause we have too many people now.  Is it any wonder that some people let out their frustrations and are accused of being rascist or not making new migrants feel welcome? Of course you start resenting them. It also doesn’t help that now every check-out chick and bank teller seems to be from India.  The Government needs to re-evaluate who gets in and instead of a big influx from one particular country or culture, they need to let in a bit from everywhere that way you don’t necessarily notice suddently lots of e.g. Indians or Chinese or Muslims (and feel out numbered or out of place). I know cause where I live doesn’t feel the same as it did just 5 years ago cause the makeup of the locals has changed dramatically.  I feel like I don’t recognise it anymore and my sense of community has disappeared. The Government needs to understand that immigration is like making a cake, you don’t put all the flour in at once but put in a little at a time and stir it to get a smooth consistency.

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      10:29am | 02/03/11

      “I’m not racist, but….(insert racist rant here)”

      “It also doesn’t help that now every check-out chick and bank teller seems to be from India” - what relevance does that have? BTW - Muslims make up 2% of the people in this country, and it isn’t a race, it’s a religion.
      If your sense of community is disappearing, maybe it’s because you aren’t trying to be part of the community anymore Anna.

    • James1 says:

      12:37pm | 02/03/11

      “Of course you start resenting them. It also doesn’t help that now every check-out chick and bank teller seems to be from India.”

      So because you have to look at people with darker skin than yours when you go to the shop, your resentment is increased?  And you are happy to admit this in a forum where people can respond?  What a shameless racist you must be.  Indeed, that is the very definition of racism. 

      Also, how do you know where they are from?  One of my worst moments in academia was asking a fellow of Chinese descent in one of my tutorials where he was from.  His reply was “Melbourne mate”.  That is Australia now.  Get used to it.

    • Phil says:

      01:25pm | 02/03/11

      @Laura,

      Its nothing to do with not trying to be part of the community, its that the community has vastly changed and not for the better.
      This has nothing to do with a specific race or religion its a change in the community, more people, more people from other countries who only have anything to do with those who are also from their home country.
      Australia today is nothing like the Australia when i was growing up, so many things have changed not for the better and there is no longer any sense of community.
      There is an outnumbering in some areas where other races outnumber what was the majority once upon a time and you do notice these things.
      I went back to somewhere i grew up as a kid which really shocked me given it was such a nice area and there were a few different cultures in the area. Its now full Korean, to the extent large sections of shopping areas were in Korean, no English at all, how should the non-Korean residents of the area feel about this? like they are the problem like you’d have them believe?

    • James1 says:

      01:42pm | 02/03/11

      Phil,

      So now that your “once nice” area is no longer mostly white, it is “not a nice area”?  Care to explain that for us?  What exactly is it about Koreans that causes such deterioration in an area’s status, in your mind?

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      01:51pm | 02/03/11

      @Phil - so when Anna says ‘It also doesn’t help that now every check-out chick and bank teller seems to be from India” - That isn’t against a specific race?

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      02:00pm | 02/03/11

      Oh yeah Phil - I almost forgot. What makes your previously ‘nice’ area, not nice now that it is ‘full on Korean’ - is there more crime? Violence? Unempoyment?
      Also - how do you know they have no interest in people outside their own race, when you obviously have no interest in them?

    • Phil says:

      02:13pm | 02/03/11

      @James,
      Its no longer a place with more than one culture or race who got on and was somewhere anyone could live.
      Now unless you are Korean or want to learn to speak Korean (minimal english signs) you wouldnt live there or if you did would be isolated to some extent in your local “community” as well you arent Korean.

      @Laura,
      Anna’s example was specific to mention the race but also to reflect reality. Its what she has seen, because she names the race doesn’t make her racist.
      Same as I cant recall the last time in Sydney I’ve been to a service station that isn’t owned and run by an Indian family with only Indian staff as they wont hire (don’t trust) anyone who isn’t Indian.

      I cant think of any other country that “Australians” have gone to and set up mini-Australia’s in.
      Try immigrate to another country like India or China (or anywhere in Asia) and set-up whole suburbs full of Australians with only English signs to cater other Australians and start having as many kids as you can produce and see how far you get. It wouldn’t happen or you wouldnt be accepted.
      Yet when other races come here they can do as they please and no one is meant to question it for fear of being called racist?

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      02:38pm | 02/03/11

      @Phil - so saying that she resents Indian people isn’t racist? Oh. Okay then. Glad we cleared that up.
      & RE mini-Australia’s overseas. Yes they do have them, in areas of Indonesia/Singapore & other SE Asian countries, where there is a lot of english speaking workers, particularly where there are offshore oil rigs, they have exactly what you have described. English signs, shops that stock Aussie food, Aussie beer etc etc.

    • Phil says:

      02:46pm | 02/03/11

      @Laura,
      Tens of thousands of them all in the same area creating their own local version of sydney, Brisbane or Melbourne?
      Im yet to hear about it or see them, a couple bars selling VB hardly counts either.
      It seem that what has been said is only racist when its said by someone who is white.
      Australia has one of the most lax immigration laws in place and it has the least foresight for the future of this country and its people.
      It wont be long before we are going through the problems the UK and Europe are and we haven’t paid attention to any of the warnings.

    • HappyCynic says:

      03:36pm | 02/03/11

      @Phil

      Australia takes in about 0.1% of the entire international migration each year and has cut the numbers in the last 2 years.  The UK has taken in about 0.6% of the international migration with most European countries doing similar, that’s 6 times the amount we take in and the UK for example only has 3 times the number of people living there.  No wonder they have problems with integration.

      I think it’s good to discuss migration policies but I’m curious can you explain how our migration policy is lax when we already take in so few people?  Or is your xenophobia so extreme that one immigrant is one too many?

      @Anna C

      How do you feel out of place around Chinese or Indians or Muslims?  You do realise that until proven otherwise, they’re exactly the same as you, right down to the same motivations you have, the same emotions, same colour blood, same way of thinking etc.  Or are you such a loner that all people in general make you uncomfortable?

    • Your Uncle Bob says:

      06:32pm | 02/03/11

      Mass-immigration does nothing good whatsoever for the host population. It only benefits big business who want to drive down workers’ wages; cut training costs and sell more widgets to the huddled masses. The average man/woman in the street is actually worse off with each plane or boatload of arrivals.

      All of the lefties posting here that are saying that they are delighted for our country to be overrun with foreigners because they are such proud anti-racists are actually nothing other than useful idiots for big capital. You silly fools.

      As regards the social aspects of mass immigration. Don’t expect immigrants from other cultures to ever share the values that we are supposed to take for granted and which used to bind us together as a nation. Multiculturalism is nothing other than a vote buying exercise for the ALP and it is a curse.

    • Grumpy says:

      09:13am | 02/03/11

      Alot of white Australian’s are racist in denial but theyre not the only ones on the planet . The old ” IM not racist but i find indian people sooooooo annoying”, “im not racist but i dont think we should let Muslim people into OUR country”....Theres probably nothing really wrong with it, not like we openly hang or run lynch mobs..anymore. Its divisive though. Problem is most Australians are rarely exposed to other cultures themselves. Alot of people talk about integration, but in reality you could call most Australian suburbs white ghettos inthe same way Asian people live apparently in close proximity, “I dont trust those woggy looking people who moved in down the street”.  Alot of people like to look at whats wrong with other people to make it easier to put up with themselves, or find problems in them and blame them for problems in society…Like lebonese gangs, Asian people, whatever. I doubt in most cases these people are the instigators of SOME of the violence that has gone on, i bet there is usually some white Aussie guy who calls them a Effen leb, or something like that and then turns around and says “well they just attacked me and my mates”. And most of the time they are just young men, who would probably fight anyway. Theres no short answer, at the end of the day who really cares? We dont do things, anymore, that are openly racist in our foreign policies (debatable). As for immigration, it needs to be case by case, not race by race…As soon as you start trying to force people to be or act a certain way to fit in to “our culture”, which is an argument you will find throughout the comments here, well thats fascism. We havent had any terrorist attacks here by muslim people, i dont see why we cant let some struggling Muslim families in to have a better life. Their kids and their kids kids will fit in fine. The simpsons really nailed it on the head…remember Apu trying to fit in wearing the cowboy hat and trying to speak with an American accent. Its all just fuel for a fight that no one will win and everyone will lose…Australians are racist in denial.

    • Mike says:

      08:06pm | 02/03/11

      The “I’m not a racist, but…” thing is annoying, people should just drop it and freely say what they think. The only reason they don’t is because we’ve had multiculturalism shoved down our throats for so long, people feel they need to add some sort of a disclaimer when they express some sort of dissatisfaction with it all. But that’s changing now, thankfully.

    • Kafir says:

      09:35am | 02/03/11

      James, I am bit disappointed with your (very) abbreviated and vague view on senator Bernadi’s stances. I share his concern why ALL meat sold in Australian Coles for example is halal. I and majority of Australians are not Muslim and I’d like my meat secular, please! Why are we made to eat food killed inhumanly and in the name of Allah? Please have a look at videos on YouTube to see what to means to kill a cow in halal way.

      Secondly, the anti Muslim sentiment is neither racist (Muslims are people of many races) or form of religious discrimination. Islam is a political system through and through, which also happens to encompass some form of faith. There is no Islam without Sharia and Sharia is a totalitarian political system placing itself as an unquestionable and indisputable law above all laws a democratic country may have in place. And that is a reason for lack of integration of followers of Islam and a serious concern for any democracy. I believe it is still perfectly legal to oppose views of political systems in this country.

      It is that simple.

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      10:34am | 02/03/11

      This ‘Coles only sells Halal meat’ conspiracy comes up all the time, it’s a load of bollocks. Coles meat is not even marked as Halal, why would they make all their meat halal & not label it? Despite the fact it is more expensive to slaughter animals halal…
      Please link some actual evidence.

    • Warwick says:

      10:50am | 02/03/11

      Well said. Islam is a thoroughgoing political system. It propagates the belief in the inferiority of women and supports the practices that flow from that belief, such as female genital mutilation, for one, and also the covering of women because female sexuality is suppposed to be irresistably malign.

      In Australia Catholics can marry protestants without much difficulty. Christians generally are free to regard the stories of the Old Testament, such as direct creation and the Garden of Eden, as myth.

      If a Muslim were to marry a Christian, in a Christian church, the Muslim’s family would explode with rage. And Muslim’s who reject the literal truth of Direct Creation and The Garden of Eden are heretics.

      Furthermore, if you were to hear that a bomb had been exploded in a bus or train or aeroplane, would your first response be, “Those bloody Anglicans are at it again?”

      Because the Islamic population of Australia is a small percentage of the total we don’t have many great problems. In places like Britain and France and Sweden and Holland you have no-go areas, riots, a huge sexual assault problem and attacks on churches and synagogues.

      And finally, the prejudice that Indians show towards untouchables is one of the cruellist examples of the mistreatment of a defined social group that you can find anywhere in the world.

    • Stephen Fitzpatrick says:

      11:45am | 02/03/11

      Warwick, please quickly call my girlfriends family in Indonesia and warn them that they have forgotten to “expolde with rage”.

      Of course, they are a little late as my girlfriends mother marry her Dutch father some time ago.

      I understand they were a little annoyed, but I think it was more to do with the fact that my girlfriends Indonesian grandparents fought a bloody war with the Dutch for independance. Yet they all got along in the end!

      The family in Holland? Well, let just say my girlfriend hasn’t really spoken to them since her father died, she never liked they way they treated her mother.

      Warick, political violence is not restricted to islamics. If a bomb goes off in Northern Ireland do we automatically think it’s Muslims? No, yet we don’t view all Catholics, Irish or Irish-Catholics as potential mass murders.

    • Zaf says:

      11:54am | 02/03/11

      I doubt ALL the meat at Coles is halal, but here’s something to think about when you see a halal certification on other products:

      “Australia is the only country in the world with a globally-endorsed and certified Halal brand underpinned by government legislation.”

      The MLA-developed Halal brand appears on retail meat packs and point of sale and guarantees that the meat has come from an animal that has been slaughtered according to the strict Islamic Shariah. Under the new arrangement, Halal meat sent from Australia to Islamic countries is accompanied by an official government certificate and stamp which is further endorsed with an authorised Islamic Organisation stamp…

      Australia currently exports beef, sheepmeat and goatmeat to over 40 Islamic countries, including Indonesia, which is Australia’s fifth largest beef export market. It is estimated that there are over 2 billion Muslims around the world and that the market for Halal products globally is worth $570 billion annually.

    • Kafir says:

      12:32pm | 02/03/11

      @LauraBoBaura, no conspiracies involved. Contact Coles via their feedback page: http://www.coles.com.au/Coles/Coles-Feedback.aspx and they will confirm their halal policy and why they do not display any certification stamps.

    • Zaf says:

      12:50pm | 02/03/11

      I searched http://www.coles.com.au for ‘halal’ and got:

      Search Results Search took 0.03 seconds. 

      Your search - halal - did not match any documents.
      No pages were found containing “halal”.

      Suggestions:
      Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
      Try different keywords.
      Try more general keywords.

    • Jacqui says:

      12:57pm | 02/03/11

      Ugh those unevolved Muslims not treating women as equals!

      *Ignores Catholic church imposing same punishment for ordaining women as for sexually abusing a child*

      As for the rest of this drivel, if you think there’s anything ‘simple’ about making blanket statements on the multi-ethnic and multi-denominational adherents of either major world religion (Islam and Catholicism are pretty well neck and neck with just over a billion followers apiece) then I don’t know what to tell you.  Even within its’ far stricter and more centralised doctrines, Catholicism varies significantly depending on the nation in which it’s practiced, and the same holds true for Islam.

      To suggest that it’s a bad thing because it has political influence, well - imagine the hysteria and hand wringing if it were Imam George Pell whispering sweet nothings in Tony Abbott’s ear.  Or if it were those dishonest mullahs spreading false information in Africa to promote their own religious views at the expense of heightening the AIDS epidemic, or looking on with approval as women in South America die unnecessarily from septic miscarriages because theological teaching on abortion has been codified into law.

      Those are accepted without outrage though, because they’re OUR guys wielding the influence, and we’re totally the good guys.  Apparently it’s that simple.

    • Markus says:

      01:32pm | 02/03/11

      @Zaf, try googling the words Coles and Halal.
      You will find numerous sites that have received contact back from queries to Coles and others (KFC, Macdonalds) that some or all their meat products are Halal certified.
      Including all of Steggles range, apparently.

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      01:57pm | 02/03/11

      @Markus - I did that, and 99% of those threads are on websites like australian islam watch & ‘Peacefully protesting against Islam’  or today tonight..
      I still haven’t found any actual proof… I shall have to email Coles.

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      02:12pm | 02/03/11

      LauraBoBaura

      I have emails from both Coles and Woolworths detailing which suppliers they buy from that process meat and poultry in halal fashion viz some arcane ritual which includes prayers muttered by a foreign shaman over your food, regardless of *your* religious beliefs. 
       
      Coles say they don’t mark the food thus because they themselves are not halal certified, but that naturally is bullshit. They fail to mark it thus because they would lose a lot of custom. The various Muslim bodies in Australia are aware of what products have been processed according to *their* religion, the rest of us are denied that information unless we ask.

      Yes, the emails exist and if I thought Punch would do anything about it I’d send them on.

    • TheRealDave says:

      02:26pm | 02/03/11

      Jeez…not the Halaal meat crap again?

      So what? Does it make the meat taste any different? Does it make the meat dangerous for you to eat? Will it make you turn Muslim if you eat it unawares?

      Surely you’ve got far saner objections or observations??

    • Markus says:

      02:31pm | 02/03/11

      LauraBoBaura
      The top two relevant results are muslim run sites dedicated to advising local Muslims of which companies have confirmed via return email that their products are all/partly Halal certified.
      Even for the Islam Watch etc sites, just because they are nutcases doesn’t mean Coles didn’t confirm to them their meat is Halal.

    • Markus says:

      02:40pm | 02/03/11

      @TheRealDave
      The process involves individually slicing the throat of every animal slaughtered.
      Objections to the unnecessary extra pain involved in the process aside (bleeding out as opposed to a nail through the brain), the extra cost involved would get passed on to all consumers, even those who don’t want their meat prepared in this way.

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      02:46pm | 02/03/11

      @Tony - thanks for saving me the time. Wow, I really cant believe that. Not that I give a crap, I haven’t noticed my meat tasting more Muslim.

      Although it doesn’t make for a ‘majority rules’ situation, when 2% of the population can decide what the other 98% eat…
      I know that Coles buys their chicken from Baiadia - they’re Halal & I think Steggles is aswell? That’s probably how they get away with not marking it. Because technically they aren’t ‘Halal certified’

      Meh. I humbly stand corrected.

    • Zaf says:

      03:34pm | 02/03/11

      @ Markus and T de P

      I’m sure that some Coles (and Woollies, and other stores) provide halal meat.  (Ditto some fast food outlets.)  What I do not believe is that this is not labelled ‘halal’, and sold at a premium price.  Otherwise why would they bother?  The point is to GET the Muslim dollar, and that won’t happen without a nice big “halal” label.

      It’s like my local Coles having a little kosher section for kosher foods.  It’s got to have the kosher approved label, otherwise why would anybody pay extra for it? 

      I absolutely do not believe that ALL the meat at Coles across the nation is halal but “deceitfully not labelled halal”.  I cannot imagine why any Muslim would care whether either of you, or Cory Bernardi, ate halal meat or not.  I’ve yet to hear a convincing explanation.

      Here’s the disappointing news, guys.  The Muslims don’t care what you eat.  Truly.  Your diet is not on their radar.

      (Oh heck! I’m just joshin’ with ya!  Of course they care what you eat.  They can’t sleep at night worrying about it.  They are OBSESSED with your meat intake.  How scary is that?!!!!  Or should I say al-intake and al-scary?  Anyhoooo….. Coles is full of halal meat, including al-pork chops, and *some* of it is actually…..al-Christian al-Baybeeeeeez!  All of it halal.  None of it labelled.  You read it first hear.  I’m only telling you ‘cause I can tell you’re fighting al-ZOG as well and I thought I owed you both.)

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      03:50pm | 02/03/11

      TheRealDave
      if it is that minor - how about we get the local Bishop to consecrate it? Or slaughter it in kosher fashion and then not tell the Muslims? Hey?
       
      Same thing.

    • HappyCynic says:

      03:51pm | 02/03/11

      @Kafir and Tony

      Funny I thought it was impossible to get halal pork.  Do you have the same objection to kosher meat sections?

    • Zaf says:

      03:58pm | 02/03/11

      WON’T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!!

      http://www.news.com.au/national/vegemite-gets-politically-correct/story-e6frfkvr-1225822912030

      Vegemite becomes politically correct

      VEGEMITE has gone halal in a bid by food giant Kraft to make the national “treasure” available to Muslim Australians….

      Muslim leaders have congratulated Kraft for introducing the labels, but Family Council of Victoria secretary Bill Muehlenberg questioned the company’s motives.

      “This is a private company trying to make money,” Mr Muehlenberg said. “I don’t think they care a rip about offending the tastebuds of Muslims.

      “Why do we have to keep bending over backwards to please minority groups? There are only 300,000 Muslims in Australia out of 22 million people, which is a very small percentage.

      “Of course, there’s a case for making allowances for different cultures, but aren’t we getting a bit carried away with political correctness here? It’s ridiculous.”

      Mr Muehlenberg feared the halal labelling was also a sign of “Islamisation” of western countries.

      “We’re already seeing sharia law courts operating in Britain,” he said. “Where does it end?”

      Since the labels were changed in August, Kraft’s head office has received regular phone calls from people complaining about the halal labelling on Vegemite.

      “People have called us with some fairly strong views about Australian society and culture,” Mr Talbot said. “These are views that we at Kraft don’t agree with. We don’t engage in racist or bigoted commentary.

      “But for every call we receive asking about it, there is a call to say how proud they are to see it’s halal. We are also proud of our kosher, halal and vegetarian products.”

      Vegemite has been certified kosher for more than a decade. When Kraft decided to scrap kosher Vegemite production in 2004, the backlash from Jewish consumers forced the company to do a backflip.

      Yasser Soliman, Islamic Council of Victoria past-president and executive director of Diversity Connect International, said the halal certification on Vegemite was a sign Muslims were “becoming more Aussie”.

    • Markus says:

      07:37pm | 02/03/11

      @Zaf, why wouldn’t they label it? Money of course.

      They are able to notify leaders of social Muslim groups directly so that they can pass on this information to their communities, while not notifying the rest of the general population that they are now paying more for their food due to the archaic religious beliefs of a minority.
      This way they don’t miss either market.

      Surely you aren’t telling me you are happy to pay extra for goods and services just to get added features you don’t actually want?

    • TheRealDave says:

      07:52pm | 02/03/11

      Tony, you can get whoever you like to mumble a few ‘prayers’ over the animal as its killed…whether by electric bolt to the head or by slitting its throat while facing Mecca…...its not going to make a lick of difference…unless you are going to tell all of us here, and with an absolutely straight face, that you can tell the difference between two rib eye fillets, one blessed by a rabbi and the other by a bishop.

      Again - who cares?!?!? Will taking a bite out of a halaal steak sanga turn you Muslim in your sleep??

    • Zaf says:

      09:36pm | 02/03/11

      @ Markus - I think you’re a little paranoid, but there you go Keep in mind that Muslims only make up 2.5% of the Australian population - and that there are lots of halal butchers. 

      Are you sure it makes sense for Coles to make everything halal, in secret, so that this secret Muslim underground can get the word out, to people (2.5% of the population)  who might or might not shop at Coles anyway (because there are so many Muslim butchers), so then Coles can get all this extra business?  Like at least one percent more.

      How do Muslims find time to influence all these businesses - aren’t they already busy putting Christian Baby blood into their passover matzohs, etc?  So many questions!

      Peace

    • TheRedRat says:

      09:36am | 02/03/11

      Great article. The dog whistling politics of the right has fractured Australian society - not broken just a little cracked. Unfortunately if you listened to talk back radio or read most of the comments on the news.com.au sites on the topic you could be excused for making the assumption that Australians are racist.

      99% of Aussies, of all back grounds, get on remarkably well. The other 1% get all the attention. The Greeks, Italians, Central Europeans all had their turn on the whipping post, then it was the Vietnamese and yellow peril. Sorry to say it is now Islam ( even the Lebs seem to have copped a break). Some tired lines….......they’re different, they want to over run us, they don’t fit in!

      From One Nation to Howard and Abbott the slide to appeal to the basest views of the minority has been constant and disappointing.

      I am an Anglo male whose family has lived here for over 150 years and fought in every conflict our country has been involved in since 1901. My brother and I still serve. So call me a latte lefty at your peril.  I love Australia and see the success of multiculturalism every day.

      Those who have posted above….....if the shoe fits wear it…......yes you are racist if you make prejudicial comments based on race!

    • james milton says:

      11:40pm | 02/03/11

      So what about race-based government assistance? Is that OK somehow? Is some racism good racism? Which type(s) and for how long?

    • CJ Morgan says:

      09:39am | 02/03/11

      I don’t think Australians are any more racist than other people, but we do have the unique historical precedent of the White Australia Policy, the effects of which linger on in the more benighted sectors of our community - particularly in rural areas and in low income suburbs of our cities.

      That one side of politics has a deplorable record of seeking to gain political advantage by appealing to remnant racism and xenophobia is not only inarguable, but also shameful.

    • James1 says:

      12:38pm | 02/03/11

      Nothing exactly unique about that CJ.  Have a look at Japan’s current immigration policy.

    • CJ Morgan says:

      07:29pm | 02/03/11

      Fair point, James1 - but Japan isn’t a former colony of a Western Imperial power that established itself in recent history, partly on the basis of Western ideas of ‘racial’ purity.  I agree that Japanese society is racist, but their racism is not primarily structured on pseudo-scientific notions of ‘race’, as ours is. 

      It would be a fascinating topic to explore elsewhere.

    • Markus says:

      09:31am | 03/03/11

      @CJ, of course Japanese racism is not based on the Western ideas of ‘racial’ purity. It is based on the Japanese idea of racial purity.
      So Japan not creating a science to go with it makes their racism okay?

    • Lily J says:

      10:10am | 02/03/11

      “It also doesn’t help that now every check-out chick and bank teller seems to be from India.”  This may be your interpretation Anna, but it is certainly not mine.  A quarter of our supermarket “check-out chicks” are computers, a lot of our “check-out chicks” are male and a lot are students, working in retail to complete their studies, and go on to better paid jobs.

    • Anna C says:

      12:55pm | 02/03/11

      Don’t tell me Lily, you live in an area like Balmain where non-white people are a rarity? Only white check-out chicks for you. The check-out chicks in my area (Ryde) are all Indian. I’m just telling it like I see it. I noticed a year or so again that all the students/young people had been replaced with older (no doubt overqualified) Indians. I have no real problem with this, but don’t tell me that this is not the case.  How can we have a grown up discussion on rascism and multiculturalism if people like you (PC obssessives) won’t acknowledge what a lot of people are saying i.e. that we are starting to feel like strangers in our own country cause the Government has allowed too much immigration in too short a time frame. I have no problem with immigration, however I do have a problem with the Government importing too many of the one people into Australia without the necessary infrastructure and just expecting us to fight it out over diminishing services and resources such as housing.  Also the Government needs to consider the implications of their policies; the Crounulla riots didn’t happen in a vacuum; it was a clash of cultures.

    • James1 says:

      01:14pm | 02/03/11

      Fair enough to say that check out chicks are Indian, Anna - that may indeed be a fact.  But you go on to say that this increases resentment.  Why, exactly?

      What is it about people with darker skin than yours which makes you feel uncomfortable?  My local Woolworths’ employees are mostly Asian and Indian university students.  This does not make me feel uncomfortable - indeed, I couldn’t care less.  What I think many of us are struggling with is why people with different skin tones are a source of discomfort for you.  All you have offered us so far is that their presence makes you uncomfortable.  That, I hate to tell you, is racism, pure and simple.

    • Joseph says:

      10:38am | 02/03/11

      It starts very innocent,first you start hate campaign against migrants,refugees and asylum seekers.Then dole bludgers,Aborigines,Muslims,gays and any one who is not supporting your policy or dose not agree with you.When there is enough hate in community you move the hate against your own citizens and fellow Parliament members .
      Now even your political opponents and anyone who is on your way to power is a target of hate and attacks.This is the only way you know how to operate.
      Life threatening and hate messages,then call few “blue shirts” for a Cristal night out.
      Liberal Party is doing great job,love you Tony and your mates.I hope one day soon you will be The Leader of Australia the one you dream of.This how it is done the Liberal Coalition way.

    • Rosie says:

      10:52am | 02/03/11

      Dare I ask why Wilkie has to resort to “racism” in the Coalition when he should be talking about the “no detail carbon tax” of the minority govt he helped to make Gillard their leader and become Australia’s PM. Has the dimwit nothing to aid Gillard sell a “carbon tax” with no details, making it a guessing game for those interested????

      Dare I also ask why Wilkie & Windsor have to go back to the deals they made with Tony Abbott before they chose Gillard Labor Party as the party to govern???? Are they now so desperate because there is nothing they can think of to defend Gillard???????

      Why is it that Windsor is the only MP that is receiving horrible text messages??????? Could it be his electorate wasn’t and now isn’t happy with what he has done and is doing????????

      Oh God so many unanswered questions, bitterness, confusion with the “racism” issue brought in to it and this all started when Gillard shafted Rudd and became our PM. “Bad Kama” I say!

      I long for the day when we can be civil and debate policies that is being decided on and implemented by this Govt instead of always makng them accountable for their incompentency and misdeeds.

    • Tedd says:

      11:09am | 02/03/11

      Rosie, the bad karma started when Rudd went off the rails and off on a tangent or three.

    • PTom says:

      01:37pm | 02/03/11

      So we can only talk about one issue at a time or believe this is only a issue since last year are we really that dumb.

      Civil debate will no longer occur in this country while we have launtic Liberal supporters on talk back like Alan Jones or printing lies like Andrew Bolt

      What about Government today release of Myschool 2.0?

    • Rover of North Cooma says:

      12:34pm | 02/03/11

      I arrived at a bar the other night to hear two of the regulars - white women in their 40s - haranguing two Aboriginal sisters about the apology to the Stolen Generations.

      The apology apparently made them sick to their stomachs and was the worst decision ever made by any government. They’re not racist and they’ve never done anything that needs an apology.

      So I asked them if they felt as personally offended by the apology to the British child migrants. They hadn’t heard about it, but once they found out what it was for, they thought that apology was okay. Just not the one to Aborigines.

      But no, they’re not racist in any way.

      Afterwards, one of the Aboriginal women told me she has that same conversation with at least three random white Australians every day. Every day. For the past three years.

      We need to accept that it is human nature to fear people who are different from us. And we need to be encouraged to get over this fear and mistrust.

      That’s my peace and love post for the day.

    • Anna C says:

      01:52pm | 02/03/11

      James1 01:14pm | 02/03/11 says"Fair enough to say that check out chicks are Indian, Anna - that may indeed be a fact.  But you go on to say that this increases resentment.  Why, exactly?”  James, the reason why I feel resentful every time I see Indian check-out chicks is cause to me they symbolise what is wrong with this city i.e. too many new people, too much congestion/traffic, more pressure on dwindling services/resources/housing. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to see that our standard of living has been diminishing quickly over the last 5 -10 years because of too much immigration.  I agree that immigration has its good points such as a greater variety in restaurants/cuisines, but lets not pretend that it doesn’t have its downsides as well; just ask Europe.

    • James1 says:

      02:15pm | 02/03/11

      That does not answer my question.  What is it about the Indian check out chicks in particular that makes you more resentful.  Why don’t you get that feeling when you see a white check out chick in other suburbs?  Why single out Indians as a font of resentment for you?

      Also, I fundamentally do not buy this rubbish about diminished standards of living.  Even if it were true, it has nothing to do with the Indians working at your local supermarket.  You have still failed to make any connection between their race, and your feelings of resentment towards their presence that can not accurately be characterised as racism.

      I will not deny that Europe has had a lot of trouble with the way it deals with migrants, but give them a break.  They are not used to it the way that we are.  Only 60 years ago some European countries were actively persecuting their ethnic and religious minorities, and since they have gone too far in the other direction as a form of overcompensation.  Australia has been dealing with supposedly incompatible cultures for a long time, and we are dab hands at it.  Indeed, the Irish were once a dangerous non-Anglo ethnic minority, with their own culture, language, and religion, who were opposed to the British crown and the British more generally, owing their first allegiance to a free and united Ireland and the Pope in Rome.  The same process took place with Italians before WWII, then with other Southern Europeans post-WWII, and Asians since they did away with the White Australia Policy.  We are much more like the US than we are like Europe in that sense.

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      02:31pm | 02/03/11

      Anna - how can a person bagging your groceries ‘symbolise’ anything? She’s just a person bagging groceries. Nothing more. Do you also hold the same amount of resentment for bogans who sit on the dole & breed like rabbits? By your standards, they are also putting ‘pressure’ on services & housing.
      Did you consider that maybe the reason there is so much pressure on housing & infastructure is because the NSW state government is completely incompetent? Funny how your ‘standard’ of living over the last decade pretty much matches up with said incompetent government being in power hey?
      Despite the fact that Australia’s ‘standard of living’ is far, far above 90% of the rest of the world.
      I’m not saying that multiculturalism doesn’t have it’s faults. But you’re directing blame at the check out chick for the failings of Sydney’s infastructure when you should be getting pissed at the pollies who have buggered NSW up.

    • RickyB says:

      03:56pm | 02/03/11

      Well said Anna. Spot on.

    • Nooodle says:

      03:56pm | 02/03/11

      Sounds to me like the Indian check-out chicks stole Anna C’s job!

    • Grumpy says:

      04:03pm | 02/03/11

      Anna is the perfect specimen of “the Australian Racist in denial”...She cant help it though, Foreigners, Theyre just…....well, different.

    • Anna C says:

      01:52pm | 02/03/11

      James1 01:14pm | 02/03/11 says"Fair enough to say that check out chicks are Indian, Anna - that may indeed be a fact.  But you go on to say that this increases resentment.  Why, exactly?”  James, the reason why I feel resentful every time I see Indian check-out chicks is cause to me they symbolise what is wrong with this city i.e. too many new people, too much congestion/traffic, more pressure on dwindling services/resources/housing. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to see that our standard of living has been diminishing quickly over the last 5 -10 years because of too much immigration.  I agree that immigration has its good points such as a greater variety in restaurants/cuisines, but lets not pretend that it doesn’t have its downsides as well; just ask Europe.

    • Lily J says:

      02:19pm | 02/03/11

      @Anna,
      We have more immigrants from New Zealand, the UK and South Africa combined than from India.  I guess they’re harder to pick in a crowd.  If you are genuine in your concerns regarding infrastructure, service and resources, why single out certain groups?  Isn’t the baby bonus and paid maternity leave also promoting a growing population?  Also, I assume any “checkout chick”, regardless of ethnicity, pays taxes towards these things, as do you?  What exactly is the point of difference other than skin colour again?

    • TheRealDave says:

      02:28pm | 02/03/11

      We are only as racist as our media make us out to be - for ratings

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      03:44pm | 02/03/11

      Truer words were never said.

    • Sophie Bella says:

      03:43pm | 02/03/11

      Please join the Liberal Nazi Party of Australia.
      We have the future for you.

    • Ryan says:

      04:31pm | 02/03/11

      Hitler was a “socialist” i.e. a lefty, the Nazi party was born out of the left wing as with every other psychotic murderous reigeme, Pol Pot you name it.
      Since your beloved greens and Labor are very socialist one can only surmise that at some point they are going to give birth to another Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin etc.. sadly I think we might already have one, her name is Gillard.

    • TheRealDave says:

      08:00pm | 02/03/11

      Hitler was a Nationalist. Germany first and foremost. All for the Fatherland and all that guff. Despite the fact he was Austrian.

    • Cuppa says:

      03:45pm | 02/03/11

      As long as our moronic governments continue to import the dregs of the third world & middle east we are going to see problems.These violent, failed cultures have contributed little to this country, outside of pack rape, disrespect & the middle eastern crime squad( Dont give me the usual lefty squeal of foriegn food) & many dont even show Australians the respect, & have no intention, of learning our national language let alone making any effort to become part of Australia.Happily it seems the tide is turning & the tension is building as many Australians are fed up.Many of these minorities are being judged by their actions & attitudes & have been found wanting, so they better learn to deal with it.

    • Lily J says:

      04:25pm | 02/03/11

      Every race contains good, bad and indifferent.  You can’t generalise and say ALL these people commit crimes.  Carl Williams and Martin Bryant are Aussie born and bred.  Does that make ALL Australians drug dealers and killers?r

    • Mike says:

      08:24pm | 02/03/11

      Spot on, Cuppa. I think people are going to come around to the undeniable realities staring them in the face, but it’s too early yet. I would expect another 10 years or so, at least.

      Lily J - well it’s true that in terms of serial killers etc, Caucasians do have their “stand outs”. Same with the American lot - Dahmer, Gein etc. But these are seriously disturbed inviduals and really do represent almost the needle in the proverbial haystack. Look at the more day-to-day statistics involving violent crime, rape etc, (even more telling in America) and the general lack of willingness to assimilate (which imo is just obvious when you travel out and about), and I think the reality that our mass-migration intake of recent decades is not working particularly well and is going to potentially lead to serious problems, is becoming quite obvious. Some people just choose not to see it.

    • Roger Crook says:

      08:14pm | 03/03/11

      What has appalled me in all of the above is the lack of knowledge and appreciation of Australian history.
      A good place to start would be chapter 4 of the Windshuttle book ’ The White Australia Policy’.
      Whatever your political leaning, do not play the man, pay attention to the research and the dedication the man has used in the accurate portrayal, from the records of the day, of how we were in the 1880s onward.
      And then comment on where we are today, and if you can, show how we have changed.

 

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