Weekend Punch: the first day of the rest of our lives

ramases says:

06:48am | 22/12/12

Wow, a whole post without blaming Abbott or mentioning him, your slipping acotrel.

PJ says:

06:54am | 22/12/12

Christmas ruined.

The rumours Acotrel was emigrating to America were greatly exaggerated.

Bex says:

07:48am | 22/12/12

So many sweeping generalisations, so little time.

How’s that surplus working out for you guys?

Timo Glock says:

07:59am | 22/12/12

Your post mentioned the mentally ill and a penis,Freudian at best

Gregg says:

08:21am | 22/12/12

Have you considered for a moment that it may be some that are challenged one way or another be they looney tune players or not that kick off various weirder thoughts be they NRA members or not.

One thing you have exceedingly correct as a possibility is
” Paranoia and delusion are a dangerous combination, when guns are involved. ” and so having a health based register of people and having processes that make it far more difficult to get their hands on weapons could be a good thing not just in preventing massacres but perhaps even being some sort of a vehicle to have help available and treatment when necessary.
With that occurring, massacres might become so many fewer.

Ravi says:

10:53am | 22/12/12

@ramases

The contraction of “you are” is “you’re”. Tired of Internet illiteracy.

PJ says:

01:10pm | 22/12/12

What was worse?

Not delivering the surplus

OR

Getting caught with their hands in the International Foreign Aid Collection box for the poor?

acotrel says:

06:37am | 22/12/12

We have abattoirs in Australia. We don’t have to tolerate cruel grubs behaving obscenely towards dumb animals.
There must be international standards for workplace safety, and they should be written into all free trade agreements.  Businesses must not be permitted t o profit from the deaths and diseases of workers or extreme cruelty to animals. . Australian companies move offshore to exploit third world conditions - no OHS laws or unions.

acotrel says:

06:45am | 22/12/12

Australia is trying to compete with Asian companies who are permitted to operate under filthy, dangerous conditions and pollute without restraint.  Our own businesses would drag us down to the same level - lowest common denominator. Relying on unions to moderate their behaviour is just a bloody great big cop-out for our government . We should change the use International Standards in free trade agreements , and help produce and enforce an ISO standard for Workplace OHS similar to AS4801. Trying to compete with GRUBS is bullshit.

JoniM says:

07:58am | 22/12/12

Spot on Dr Goh !

Major focus should have been on Indonesia as our most important neighbour for so many reasons. Indonesia should be a massive market for our export trades for our agriculture, resources and education services. They have a very strategic role in our own border protection and immigration policies. They have had a very progressive and smart leader in SSBY who should have been seriously engaged by our government in recent years to benefit both our nations. Unfortunately, our incompetent government has done nothing but damage the relationship that John Howard had worked hard to build up with SSBY.. Our foreign affairs focus have been nothing but selfish individual’s pursuits for relevence around the globe, rather than benefiting our nation.  It is not surprising that Abbott got an audience with SSBY recently as Indonesia too, must be counting down the days before the next Australian election and a return to a positive Indonesian Australian relationship !

Gregg says:

08:39am | 22/12/12

@acotrel
Seems you are strong on grubs and enforcement leading into Xmas
” There must be international standards for workplace safety, and they should be written into all free trade agreements.  Businesses must not be permitted t o profit from the deaths and diseases of workers or extreme cruelty to animals. . Australian companies move offshore to exploit third world conditions - no OHS laws or unions. “
That might be fine in theory but you would have to be starkly naked dumb stupid to think it is the reality of life for it is not just 250M or thereabouts in Indonesia spread over about 2000 islands mind you but taking in the greater arc of SEA across to and including the subcontinent, there are probably something close to 2.5B across a number of countries where rule of law is far from what we in Australia or people in any other like European style country might think is normal.

Life itself for the greater majority of people is very much a hand to mouth daily survival existence, some people having it far tougher than others in a way that need to survive creates that real dawg eat dawg existence you have posted about for the US was it.

Just how you might go about enforcing your beliefs is something you ought to really question of yourself and do consider that for a moment, the number of people you would need on the ground for starters, how you pay for them and then the considerable outworkings of it all.

So we have abattoirs in Australia and a frozen side of beef landed in Indonesia might be tenfold that of a full live beast!
So where has your market gone?
How long would you keep the freezers running for before you decided you had better cut your losses and either give the beef away to people or some sharks out at sea?
What would be the nett economic impact on organisations back in Australia?, Closure?, loss of jobs?, many investors burnt, possibly losing their super?

You might want to think it all through and come up with some more plausible new years resolutions.

Gregg says:

09:02am | 22/12/12

Anybody who knows Asia at all would know that Indonesia is not alone in having a huge level of corruption be it monetarily or just by sheer virtue of how countries are ruled.

Any Asianisation of Australia needs to take that well into account and before any government goes running off at the mouth on how there lies our future, they ought to be consigned to doing their own apprenticeship like living there as an ordinary citizen for a good few years and then they might just have some idea of just how appropriate Asianisation is not and whether they would be offering any guarantees to investments there.

Sure, there might be marketing opportunities, as few and far between they may be and it needs to be understood that the market terms get designated by the market for without the customers you have no market and that is about what has happened with the live export trade.
Abbatoiring is not a nice business, not in any country including Australia and certainly not for the livestock and for most of us buying our meat in a supermarket with no real concept of animal killing, protesting about animals being slaughtered abroad is just sheer hypocrisy.

There was one Indonesian political/bureaucratical type actually laughing of Australia’s future on being interviewed recently when it came to the people smuggling racket and he basically foretold of the 100,000+ already lined up and how it was a good source of money for many in Indonesia regardless of how many middle players might get prosecuted.

100,000+ , quite a few more than 30,000 and the latter figure will head closer and closer towards the former the more we have ineffective policies to deal with people smuggling.

Why this government does not simply establish some refugee camps on the more relatively unpopulated islands along our coast I am buggered if I know.
They need to be true refugee camps, run along exactly the same lines as the UNHCR would be running them in Africa or wherever.
Let the media and UN reps in and let them write up all they like and just put it how a refugee camp is on an island or wherever.
If some UN commissioner or whoever has something to be badmouthing about, then the UN should be invited in to have full time reps handling applications and whatever from these people, applications just considered by Australia as they would from any other global refugee camp.

No welfare other than some basic rice or cereal handouts just like in a standard refugee camp and it would be interesting to see what the rate of arrivals would quickly become.

Dr B S Goh, Australian in Asia says:

11:19am | 22/12/12

@ acotrel. Your comments and arrogance confirmed the need for Australia to try harder to understand Indonesia. Maybe it is the heat of the tropics but the word “amok” comes this region of the world, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_amok.

Indonesians need to be treated with some sensitivity and respect if you do not want amok behavior.

No one in Australia will disagree that we need to ensure that the live cattle exports to Indonesia needs supervision to ensure that they cattle are not abused.

But we need to be careful not to behave in a unilateral and arrogant manner with our neighbors as we did in shutting down unilaterally and abruptly the live cattle trade. In response and to save face the Indonesians shut down the trade.

Our Govt should have set down with the Govt of Indonesia on this issue and discussed and worked out a solution. If we do not have this kind of basic diplomatic skills we should not have bothered to secure a temporary seat on the UN Security Council. Our arrogance dealing with other nations would be totally counterproductive and we would be worse worse off.

Jay2 says:

12:01pm | 22/12/12

Dr BS Goh,re: cattle trade, I can’t believe I’m writing this, but I agree with acotrel 100% on this. The knee jerk reaction was to the general public finding out what I believe had been whispered in some circles for years. LONG before this became scandal, all those involved in the industry who knew, SHOULD have done something proactively before it hit the fan. For two reasons, number one, nothing deserves to die like those animals did and second, it would have safeguarded their industry from the reaction.
I acknowledge that internationally people do not have the same welfare codes as Australia, but it is for me, to use the analogy, like supplying guns to third well countries and saying we only supply them, what they choose to do with them once they arrive is their business.

It was inevitable that the truth about this came out and I would find it very interesting to find out who exactly within the industry and goverment knew about it and did nothing so the consequences to the industry were manageble
at the very least.. Shameful incompetence and negligence at its best.

@ acotrel, well mark that on your calendar, we’re in agreeance, miracles do happen at christmas, after all!
Anyway, you’re right we don’t have to tolerate cruel grubs, but unfortunately the industry right here in Australia, I feel, still is not transparent enough and that only a small percentage of acts of gross cruelty actually are reported.
I won’t believe that these are one off incidences.

http://www.horsedeals.com.au/index.php?p=event&e=18839-Slaughter-of-horses-causes-outrage-WARNING-Graphic-content

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/all-nsw-abattoirs-under-review-after-animal-cruelty-video-scandal/story-e6frg6nf-1226267558227

Makes me wonder how what happens behind closed doors that isn’t caught or reported.

While I’m on my podium, I might as well continue on in the same vein and protest about the proposed culling of 10,000 brumbies via aerial shooting in two aboriginal owned cattle stations.  After the last disgusting aerial cull organised, where pregant mares aborted foals and a percentage left for up to ours wounded until follow up shooters were sent it, one can only hope like hell that those wielding the rifles this time around are better damned shots than those sent in last time!

Martin H says:

12:14pm | 22/12/12

@Gregg - Spoken like a true conservative.

No empathy.
No compassion.

But very un-Australian.

Get Real says:

01:00pm | 22/12/12

Dr B S Goh, given the high and widespread level of cruelty uncovered in Indonesian abattoirs and then the following public outrage, the government had no choice but to suspend it. Unfortunately it wasn’t banned for good.

Gregg, there is no hypocrisy in opposing the brutal treatment of our livestock overseas because in Australia we have much higher standards in our abattoirs than most Asian/Middle Eastern countries. Also if an abattoir in Australia is cruel to animals they can at least be prosecuted and shut down.  Abattoirs overseas cannot be because we have no such authority in other countries. This is just another reason to ban live export.

Dr B S Goh, Australian in Asia says:

01:08pm | 22/12/12

@ Martin H. Gregg is right. Australia needs to work harder to stop the boatpeople, period. Another small step the present Govt can do and stop playing politics is to introduce TPV an important component in the Howard solution on boatpeople.

The Hon Bowen had himself stated the majority of migrants in his constituency are against the boatpeole. Worldwide this is not a new problem that Australia has discovered. We are simply not prepared to follow what others have discovered needs to be done. Our big brother USA since 1996 have in place an effective policy on boatpeople. All boatpeople are returned to Cuba and Haiti, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_feet,_dry_feet_policy. In the past few years Italy rejected 99% of the boatpeople from Tunisia and Libya.

Amanda Vanstone, the former Minister of Immigration, wrote an article which states simply that we need to be cruel to some in other to be kind to all.

We need to wake up to the fact the boatpeople gatecrashing into Australia are hijacking pour humane refugees policy. If we have YY billion dollars a year to spend on refugees we should spend it on some of the very desperate refugees among the 43,000,000 refugees worldwide. UN is urgently aski8ng for 41m to help the Rohingyas, see
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/11/25/world/asia/myanmar-rohingya-violence-rivers/index.html?hpt=hp_c3

Lastly as an environment scientist most of my life I have stated that we must destroy the entrenched popular belief in Asia that Australia welcomes boatpeople. If not when the critical food crisis takes place in Asia before 2050 Australia is at risk of being swamped by a tsunami of millions of boatpeople.

Gregg says:

02:24pm | 22/12/12

@Jay2
First off, I’d suggest you might want to go and visit a few abbatoirs to see how meat makes it interim stop between pasture and supermarket shelf and then maybe you had better not for your own sake.
And now you reckon you have seen the truth because of some limited videos.
Have you thought about that particular video from Indonesia being of just a few animals and just one abbatoir and sure it could be happening all over and that ought not to be so surprising seeing as you have your typical Indonesian lucky if he tips the scales at 50 kg. and dealing with beasts of 500 kg. + so there are likely going to be difficult to manage situations and ultimately handling techniques that end up being rough on the animal.

Ideally, I suppose we should have animals in a paradisically lush green pasture with plenty of grains on hand for variety and adulterd water and soothing music to make them all drowsy with how good live is as they are led individually away from that paradise to the final one out of sight of the others.
That is not how it is, in Indonesia and likely no where else and killing animals is a brutal often bloody kind of business and if we wanted it to be any other way then you could expect to be paying for it.

And you would have a sizable back paddock handy for all those Brumbies would you!

AdamC says:

04:12pm | 22/12/12

BS Goh, I completely agree that Labor’s knee-jerk ban on live cattle exports to Indonesia was a diplomatic and commercial disaster for Australia. I am mystified that anyone still tries to defend it. (Though many of these people may be animal liberation extremists.)

While Australia’s policy community is focused on China’s rise as a great global economic and strategic power, they are all but ignoring Indonesia’s more embryonic - yet certainly real - rise as a regional one. Indonesian growth presents a number of opportunities and challenges for Australia and the other middle powers in South East Asia, mainly Malaysia and Singapore.

Australian leaders are incredibly foolish to treat Indonesia as anything other than an equal in international affairs. Sadly, Julia and her backbench mob seem happy to lecture to and patronise our most important neighbour.

Gregg says:

10:06am | 22/12/12

Julie Bishop was Annabell’s cook on her Kitchen Cabinet show last week and a very telling line by Julie was ” In public life you can always be just a sentence away from a media put down or whatever word she used “
In many cases it might even be a harmless phrase.

One puncher posted the other day re criticism of Tony Abbott having used the phrase ” shit happens ” when in Afghanistan and he was talking with some commander about deaths, a soldier having died recently but the commander alluding to what reasons can be in general.
” Shit happens ” can be a term often enough used in and out of the military and was actually on display last night in a military doco called Carrier - life aboard an aircraft carrier.

I find it somewhat surprising that people would expect any leader of any party, be they in government at the time or not to be across every document being produced across a myriad of industries or topics.
With the ABC interview by Leigh Sales, it was very typical of a politician, in this case Tony Abbott pushing the barrow on how the Carbon Tax and MRRT in general could have impact on resource companies in general whereas Leigh was wanting to drive in re the report and how because Roxby Downs was not subject to the MRRT, that was not being used as a direct cause for cutbacks.
What seems to have been missed is that BHP is a much bigger company than just Roxby Downs and what Tony was pushing was that the MRRT and Carbon Tax can have a wider impact on companies with various interests.
Just as surely, when you are running a multi national, multi resource company, that company will always be looking across all operations to see which are their least profitable when facing tighter times, be it because of operational costs, taxes or market prices.
Leigh certainly did not want to explore the broader concept as much as Tony did and it was rather moot just what was in the release.
Likewise with the solitary Judges Slipper finding for which all is hardly over it would seem and it may be prudent that all politicians do refrain from commenting on it, something Julia Gillard has form for re Craig Thompson but not now!

Tony is something of your average bloke and as you say, clearly someone who shows a lot of commitment to various causes, so nothing too much there to be mystified about.
He certainly does not come out to display an old/new/whichever suits type like Julia and that too is nothing to be mystified about, a person who also studied hard, was Senior Prefect at her high school I think her record will show, someone who went on to study law and practise it for a while at least, until that messy situation arose with her seemingly having a disagreement with the company she was employed with, she herself agreeing she was young and naive at about 30+.

I think you might find it is more wishful thinking by Labor and supporters re his letting down hard working marginal seat hopefuls and do not forget the plight of many sitting Labor MPs who will not be feeling all that comfortable with every Xmas present they have had early and about this time of year and no doubt quite a few late ones for a while yet.

iansand says:

01:17pm | 22/12/12

If you have been ambushed you can say “I haven’t read the report.  My impression, from what I’ve been told, is ...”

But if you walk into an interview knowing that something is the, or a likely, topic and you are not on top of that subject you are a goose.  And you are a goose if you try to wing it and doubly a goose if you get caught out twice.

Shane From Melbourne says:

01:47pm | 22/12/12

@Gregg- Rubbish. Tony is too lazy or incompetent to use the following phrases:
“No Comment”
“I don’t know, but I’ll find out the answer and get back to you”
“I haven’t read the report yet, but when I do I will make a comment upon it.”

There is no excuse for Tony to be lazy and not do his homework upon the questions that the media are likely to ask. At the very least, he should be having an assistant giving him precis or executive summaries of reports he is likely quizzed upon. Instead the Liberal nuff nuffs cry media ambush every time Tony fails to do his homework

John says:

02:04pm | 22/12/12

It’s politics 101, Aghast. It’s much easier to mouth off and engage in absurd rhetoric if you retain the excuse of not really knowing what you’re on about. It’s suckerpunch dogwhistling. You get to put the trolling statements out there, and then get to play the victim and act all offended when you’re called on them.

Aghast says:

04:45pm | 22/12/12

@Gregg
With regard to “Shit happens “comments used by Abbott.Putting aside the the moral aspect of his choice of words and the effect they may have on the grieving NOK.His phrase is certain to offend some voters (as a ex digger they offend me} and as a professional politician they scream Amateur and unnecessary and will cost votes.In the company of military men doing a tough job day in day out Abbott choses the ruff tuff hard to bluff male macho term to impress….Just a boy in the company of men making a fool of himself.For a digger doing the hard yards…fine…for a civilian…a man who would be PM…simply sad.
You are not doing Tony any favours bring it up today.

OverIt says:

08:27am | 22/12/12

Nice trolling Derrick, but I doubt anybody will fall for it again today.  Happy Christmas.

Aitch B says:

08:34am | 22/12/12

@Derrick

“Abbott…...... has nothing but nasty things to say about people….”

“Abbott the selfish vicious dumb-a$*$ yokel misogynist Catholic”

How about you clean up your own backyard, Derrick. You are a laugh….. ALP hipocrisy at its finest!!

Have a lovely, abusive Christmas….. it seems to be your preference

pa_kelvin says:

09:28am | 22/12/12

I’ll bite ... It’s MS Gillard NOT MRS…... Abbott IS NOT the leader nor the Government. This Country is led by Labor, and is being wrecked by Labor.

PJ says:

12:56pm | 22/12/12

it’s the Gillard Government that are the personal attack kings.

Swan: “Abbot is a Thug for personal attacks.

Is that ironic or what? An oxymoron perhaps? OR Swan just a bit thick?

The Gillard Government specifically hired John McTernan to launch attacks on Coalition members. He was earning $1 million per year.

The Gillard Government has a 1600 strong PR spin doctor army to control your thoughts at a cost of $150 million per year.

ERGO

the evidence suggests that the Gillard Government are the kings of “nastiness and personal attacks” because they are so obviously set up to do so.

Simples logic

Tropical says:

03:18pm | 22/12/12

Geez Acotel - changing your screen name certainly has not changed your propensity for posting dumbass comments.

My Space says:

08:22am | 22/12/12

I’m waiting for Tory to write her ICB column on the following::

MYEFO - Just Another Labor Lie!!!

OverIt says:

01:01pm | 22/12/12

“IF PREMENSTRUAL distress is largely a myth, do women who experience it usually have their blokes to blame?”

Q:  Why is PMS called PMS?
A:  Because Mad Cow Disease was already taken!

Have a happy Christmas

gobsmack says:

08:36am | 22/12/12

Yes, the energy companies always have the best interest of the consumers at heart.

They would never impose unnecessary increases to the price of energy.

God bless them all.

pa_kelvin says:

09:11am | 22/12/12

Hey sunny… Nibiru was very bright, and could almost feel the the breeze as it passed. It was probably the power surges from Lightning Volts TM that saved us…

Gregg says:

10:27am | 22/12/12

That’s what happens andye when Niburu is on its way to get you.

Seeing as Niburu has blown on past you must remember what it is about an ill wind, something like really bad stuff if no one gets some good and in the case of Voluntary Administration would seem to be the way to go if it is going to give any chance at all for some sort of recovery.

Like aside from Wayne, Julia ( and lets not forget the $375M people ) in setting the standard for late announcements, one way or another if a company is so short of cash flow that it cannot meet its immediate wages bill, there are most certainly some problems that need administrating and it may have even been illegal for them to keep attempting to trade if insolvent.

Even if they were to be borderline with ability to pay wages, you need to think of what other costs could be accruing and so how many flow on effects there could also be, how many unpaid debts etc. and then other companies made to struggle.
At least an administrator can attempt to get an unblinkered view and see if there is hope for the company to trade its way out of the difficulties.

Not such a merry Xmas for some I admit and perhaps the federal government could take a look at how that $375M is to be spent.

Philosopher says:

12:02pm | 22/12/12

ah, so you want us to take a ‘pill’? Perhaps a CYANIDE pill, because you want to KILL us? Lucky I caught you out, pa_kelvin! Tell me to relax and let my guard down, eh? I’m on to you…

pa_kelvin says:

12:43pm | 22/12/12

Caught out….

pa_kelvin says:

01:50pm | 22/12/12

Ahhh what the heck,you’re all invited….

pa_kelvin says:

10:41am | 22/12/12

NotSoSimple.. You dont think he posts what he does to not garner attention?? He’s a grown man trolling for the responses he gets..
Merry Christmas to you and yours…

Bex says:

11:16am | 22/12/12

Probably because acotrel dishes it out.

Rolls Canardly says:

11:56am | 22/12/12

Dear Oh So Simple,
Acronob has to be one of the most abusive, cynical, relentless, monotonous, predictable, malicious, delusional, and downright tedious commentors ever to have existed on this site…
 
It is a testament to the patience of the moderator team, especially in the light of the exclusion of Erick, that Acronob hasn’t also been shown the door. 
 
And Acronob, if you’re going to use several psuedonims and ip addresses to have ‘supporting’ comments published, perhaps you might think outside your normal modus operandi, and emply just a hint of subtlety.
 
Merry Christmas to you, too.

PJ says:

12:51pm | 22/12/12

Acotrel once called for a ‘Political Purges’ initiative on this very site.

“Australian socialists show there true colours and call for political purges:

acotrel says: 06:40am | 24/10/12
There is an easier way to lose five kilo of ugly fat than expensive liposuction.  It was used during the French Revolution, and Charles 1st and Mary, Queen of Scots enjoyed it as well..”

He’s a character, but sometimes he gets too close to the tail pipe of his show piece bikes when he’s written some of his posts.

Whats more alarming is that he’s never graduated to the Nose Bleed section?

jess says:

04:34pm | 22/12/12

It’s been said before the communication and media teams are spread across the pubic service departments and very few do straight media. You will find that most of their jobs is internal media anyway.