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    • Stephen T says:

      05:07am | 01/12/12

      @iansand: I did respond but I think I may have used my quota of posts for the day, I’m not lazy in my research Ian and its not “imagination”, the advice given is equally applicable to the case under discussion, you are free to refute this of course.

      1st post in response 2012-11-39: Sorry Ian I haven’t seen the references that you speak of I will look it up though, my initial information was drawn from, Riley’s New South Wales Solicitors’ Manual [Acting honestly in the service of a client, ref R -v-Forsyth (1990) 20 ATR 1818. And yes he was acquitted of the charge on the direction of the judge to the jury at the end of the Crown case on the basis that F’s knowledge of the unlawful purpose was not sufficient to found a lawful conviction. That doesn’t change the context of the advice given by McHugh J in his paper “Jeopardy of lawyers and accountants in acting on commercial transactions” though, this was what was referenced in summary in the Australian Bar Review, vol 5 No 1 March 1989 page 1. 

      I would also refer you to both Davies QC and Gyles QC in their respective papers (“Revenue Offences Generally: Can the Professional Adviser be a Party or Conspirator”, published in the June issue of the Queensland Law Society Journal, vol 19 No 3 June 1989 p207 and “Criminal Liability of Professional Advisers” presented to the Australian Bar Association Centennial Conference, 13 July 1988 published in Taxation in Australia, vol 23 No 7, February 1989, p480), Gyles QC summarised to as to its meaning “That no citizen could obtain guidance from those qualified to give it as to the lawfulness of a proposed course of action”.

      I also viewed a post of yours the other day relating to the fearless defence of the client, my reply wasn’t posted.  I believe the proper context is “ Every Counsel has a duty to his client fearlessly to raise every issue, advance every argument and ask every question, however distasteful, which he thinks will help his client’s case.”
      I would remind you that “In fulfilling this role, lawyers are not obliged to serve the client’s interests alone, if to do so would conflict with the duty which lawyers owe to the Court and to serving the ends of justice.”

      2nd Post in response 2012-11-39: The advice that I referred to indicates the very fine line over which it is easy to fall in assisting a client’s fraudulent activity, it may or may not apply in the case we are discussing but it would be interesting to see the outcome. As you would well know yourself you do not need to be actively assisting or to be getting a direct benefit to incur a liability and clearly you cannot advise how to circumvent the law or in certain cases even advise as to how the law applies to a particular situation as that in itself can be fraught with difficulty.

      The person we are referring to may not even be able to argue that they were acting in accordance with the client’s wishes and as it is arguable that in the case in question the client’s interests interfered with the due administration of an established legal procedure. 

      Cheers, have a good day and be well, yes the posts are a problem, by the way I enjoy arguments that have technical merit and are well founded and would rather be called out on an erroneous post and corrected than remain uninformed.

    • Gregg says:

      08:42am | 01/12/12

      It’s the ffing weekend for charlies sake and you put this up Stephen!

    • Stephen T says:

      01:01pm | 01/12/12

      Sorry, I missed him yesterday. The didn’t post it :(

    • iansand says:

      01:59pm | 01/12/12

      What you have to do is put this into the context of what Ms Gillard is accused of doing.  I don’t think you can.

    • ma_kelvin says:

      09:00am | 02/12/12

      Stephan T will have a heart attack if he doesn"t calm down.  I don’t understand a damn word you have written as its all legal stuff.  The law is an ass and serves the interest of lawyers bank accounts.  Mediation is the way to go to resolve civil matters and you can have a say in the outcome of your case.  Even if you are 100% correct in your case a lawyer can tie you up for years and send you bankrupt having your case heard fairly. I have a chip on my shoulder about it and have paid the price of going to a solicitor to get justice.  No such thing as justice only compromise.

    • Fed Up says:

      05:18am | 01/12/12

      Just like to wish The Punch and its posters a Merry Christmas!

    • Super D says:

      06:28am | 01/12/12

      Speaking of exotic poultry we’ve ordered a goose for Xmas. I’m going to name it Julia Gillard as it will be well and truly cooked!

    • Christian Real says:

      07:41am | 01/12/12

      Super D
      Some people like you have a large streak of nastiness,I am sure that you would not like to be slurred or insulted so why do it to others?

    • TimB says:

      08:33am | 01/12/12

      Yes some people do have a large streak of nastyness:

      Like the guy who responded to this picture….

      ‘Christian Real says:09:42am | 05/11/12

      Is Mr Abbott the one in the middle of the two women? “

      Get off your high horse Christian. You remain as always a hypocrite.

    • ronny jonny says:

      08:59am | 01/12/12

      She is being slowly roasted by libs, under the hot glare of Julie Bishops death gaze, marinated in a pickle of her own making and basted by that master chef, T. Abbott.

    • Kim says:

      09:44am | 01/12/12


      I think you’ve just answered your own question.

    • LJ Dots says:

      10:31am | 01/12/12

      hehe. Thanks Christian Real, you have just, (without being aware of it I’m sure) given me my first laugh of the day. Keep on smilin’.

    • vox says:

      10:34am | 01/12/12

      Not so super d. Are you and the goose you ordered related? As in “A Family Xmas”?

    • DocBud says:

      12:14pm | 01/12/12

      At first reading I thought it said “and one fancy crook”, but then I thought, she ain’t so fancy.

    • DocBud says:

      12:18pm | 01/12/12

      First class gotcha, TimB. I shall keep a close eye out for Christian’s explanation as to why his comment is appropriate yet Super D’s is not.

    • BrianB says:

      01:08pm | 01/12/12

      Just like you don’t slur Tony Abbott, Christian.

      Talk about being hypocritical…....

    • StanleyG says:

      03:54pm | 01/12/12

      Christian at 7.41,who are you talking to?Super D or Julia Gillard?

    • Steve Putnam says:

      08:35am | 01/12/12

      Re the Jimi Hendrix posting, comments were closed before I got the chance to so I take the opportunity now.
      Jimi was an undoubted revolutionary, but acknowledged influences such as Dylan and guitarists Clapton and (Jeff) Beck. However what really set him on the path was hearing the Animals version of “House of the Rising Sun”. So much so that he accepted (Animals bass player) Chas Chandler’s offer to accompany him to England and super stardom.
      Chandler saw Jimi playing in Greenwich Village one night and approached him after the gig. He was playing for peanuts on what was called “the chittlin’ circuit” and the only words of convincing that Jimi needed were assurances from Chas that Marshall amplifiers were available in England.
      I think it is fair to say Jimi is the most influential of rock guitarists. Sadly I never saw him live but (apart from the two already mentioned) I list the following virtuosos among his peers: John Mc Lachlan (best I ever saw), Roy Buchanan, Mike Bloomfield, Richard Thompson, Mark Knoffler, Duane Allman, Jimi Page and Zappa. There are in addition any number of rock guitarists that deserve a mention who weren’t so much into improvisation such as Chuck Berry, Bo Diddley, Brian Jones, Keith Richards, Mick Taylor, James Williamson, Johnny Thunders and Wilco Johnson and of course an even greater list of bluesmen - Leadbelly, Robert Johnson, the three Kings, John Lee Hooker, Buddy Guy etc etc.
      Among Aussies Phil Manning from Chain rates no1 with me, though I have fond memories of Les Gock and Hush doing a great cover version of Jimi’s arrangement of “All along the Watchtower” at Cabramatta and Hornsby dances in the early 70s. It really got the Sharpies up and stomping!

    • stephen says:

      07:55pm | 01/12/12

      Jimi was the best.
      There has been a lot of comments about him here, and no doubt every commenter has read Rolling Stone and they’ve read the reviews if only to be the authority on guitar technique - hell, one poster 2 days ago said that Andres Segouvier was only rated 50 out of a hundred guitarists ; half way, which means he is only twice as good as the plucker from Who, who got 1.

      (Are there any genuises here, who can enlighten me, as to number ?)

      Master Hendrix was a Master because he felt for his past, he then heard it, he thought about it, then he had a talk, a drink, a sniff, and being an acutely sensitive person, played his instrument.

      Ths is the way things were done in the 70’s.
      But the key word is ‘felt’.

      It is an old word.
      Jimi made it urbane.

    • bananabender56 says:

      08:45am | 01/12/12

      @ Christian Real, isn’t that what politicians are for - public figures to be slurred or insulted. They don’t seem to serve any other useful purpose.

    • Gregg says:

      08:52am | 01/12/12

      Ha ha1 Christian, you could take a month of Christmases and spend them reviewing your posts and you would still be working your way through slurs and insults coming to the end of a month of New Years too.

      I’ve gone for a breast of turkey with stuffing, might be honey and macadamia and that ought to suit a lady needing sweetening and no need to comment on the nuts but she is reputed to have a liking of them.
      Yep, beheaded, plucked, gutted, semi cooked and frozen for roasting carving or shall we say some stabbing and I wonder how good a carver/stabber Kevin is now with a couple of practices and then for getting the teeth into gorgibly before digesting and ultimately passing on into the sewerage system, a septic tank in my case which is probably good in that it resembles something more like a prison solitary confinement or lets say with all those other ..........before decomposition and a final recycling via whatever is growing downstream.
      Maybe I should buy a rose or something and name it Jules the White Crested Crested Black Polish Rooster.

    • Gregg says:

      08:54am | 01/12/12

      @Super D
      And Hey!, if you’re going to play axe murderer with it, don’t worry on sharpening up the axe for a good bludgeoning could do.

    • AdamC says:

      09:33am | 01/12/12

      Warning: Julia-related comment ahead:

      The media have largely missed the point of the latest developments in the ongoing AWU scandal. In effect, what happened in the course of this week is that the Coalition finally demonstrated that the PM did write to the WA authorities about the slush fund. (Gillard claimed to have forgotten about the letter, which is not credible, but also not directly falsifiable.)

      In response to this, Julia basically dared the Coalition to find evidence that she directly misled WA officials. As she did earlier this week when asked about the existence of the letter, Gillard did not explicitly deny misleading WA officials, rather, she turned it around to a challenge to ‘produce the goods’. Clearly, the Coalition will be feverishly digging away over summer.

      So the outcome of this saga will ultimately depend on what happens next. If Julie Bishop and her gophers are able to find this mysterious letter (or some other information) and it shows the PM made false representations about the slush fund, the PM will be toast and the government will either fall or limp to the next election with a new leader. Julia will then get to spend some of her forced retirement giving evidence to the inevitable judicial inquiry into AWU-Gate and union corruption generally.

      The other extreme outcome would be that nothing more comes out and we have a fairly conventional, possibly close election campaign next year, with this affair as an ugly sideshow. (We should not discount the possibility that the PM actually did not mislead anyone and there is nothing to find. Confirmation bias is a dangerous thing.)

      My money is on something between the two extreme possibilities.

    • Gregg says:

      12:29pm | 01/12/12

      I do not know what you would call a fairly conventional election campaign and whilst Labor could well want to focus on all their policies without really outlining how they are to be paid for but more to challenge the opposition to match them and fall into their own black hole and then we’ll have the
      smearing regurgitation of Unfit to hold office & Dr No along with sexist claims that Tony Abbott is continually smearing Julia.

      I reckon a lot of the public will be able to see through who is doing the name calling just as they may have their suspicions on Julia and the LNP ought to have all their candidates well versed in just shrugging it off without reacting and get the message out about policies and overall need to have sound budgetting.
      Policy wise, they could also use the backflips and policies that have not worked to highlight the ineffectiveness of the current government but they do need to use the smarts a bit.

    • iansand says:

      02:03pm | 01/12/12

      Even if they do find the letter I bet it says “We are instructed…” 

      Why don’t you people actually find a lawyer to explain to you what lawyers do?  Which is act on the instructions of their clients.  I do not know one lawyer (apart from those in Parliament on the Coalition side) who is even slightly excited by this.

    • Ben says:

      03:04pm | 01/12/12


      >>Why don’t you people actually find a lawyer to explain to you what lawyers do?  Which is act on the instructions of their clients.

      Could someone please instruct lawyer iansand to shut up?

    • TimB says:

      03:26pm | 01/12/12

      ‘Why don’t you people actually find a lawyer to explain to you what lawyers do?  Which is act on the instructions of their clients.’

      So you’re telling me that if your client asks you to go steal somethng, you do so, and then you can claim it’s legal simply because you were acting under your clients instructions?


      If Gillard has been found to do something considered illegal, it doesn’t matter if she was instructed to do it or not.

    • Gregg says:

      09:51am | 02/12/12

      ” “We are instructed…” “
      Whether or not the letter/submission or whatever form it is in, lets hope that WA government records archives can bring up the necessary document just to clarify the situation as we sure have been getting a lot of obfucation.

      In this instance, Julia was acting for an individual or individuals outside of the AWU acccording to the likes of Bill Shorten and certainly outside of the AWU normal client relationship with Slater and Gordon as admitted by Julia who has also referred to the fund as a Slush Fund.

      So who would the ” We ” be as far as instructions go might be somewhat interesting.

      Even without any documentation being discovered, it would seem enough has been aired for many to make a decision the matter, a poll just released saying something like:
      . 20% believe Julia has been honest
      . 31% believe she has been economical with the truth
      . 31% believe she is further away from the truth than just being economical
      Not real good figures and whilst the 20% stuck on is likely not to change even with documentation, the public judgement of her is hardly going to improve the hole she has been digging.

    • AdamC says:

      10:50am | 02/12/12

      Iansand says:

      ‘Even if they do find the letter I bet it says “We are instructed…”’

      On my reading of the Australian solicitors conduct rules (available here: a lawyer cannot knowingly mislead someone on the basis of an instruction from a client.

      Rule 8.1 states that ‘A solicitor must follow a client’s lawful, proper and competent instructions.’ An instruction to provide false information is clearly not one of those. It is obviously not ‘proper’ and may also be ‘unlawful’.

      Furthermore, Rule 3.1 states ‘A solicitor’s duty to the court and the administration of justice is paramount and prevails to the extent
      of inconsistency with any other duty.’ This rule is also described as the ‘paramount duty’. Therefore, even without the limitations included in 8.1 as to proper and lawful instructions, a lawyer could still not follow a client instruction that involved deliberately misleading public officials.

      Lawyers must also:

      1) be honest and courteous in all dealings in the course of legal practice (Rule 4.12); and

      2) must not do anything that may be prejudicial to, or diminish the public confidence in, the administration of justice.

      The current rules were issued in 2011, but I doubt their forerunners were so different as to enable lawyers to provide false information merely because a client instructs them to do so.

      Is there something I am missing here?

      Also, even if some technical defence could be raised, Gillard’s position would be political impossible. Of course, I should stress that we are not at the point of knowing that Gillard provided false information to the relevant WA agencies. On the basis of what we currently know, she may well have followed all the applicable professional standards (except perhaps those pertaining to conflicts of interest, which I have not examined in detail).

    • stephen says:

      10:00am | 01/12/12

      Wonder who broke into - or was that strolled into - the Darwin Naval Base and stole guns ?
      Celebratory Palestinians ?
      Or the girls from St. Ninians ?

      ps thank God we’re a nation girt by sea, otherwise everyone would be strolling into bases and taking things.

    • Last Man Standing says:

      11:36am | 01/12/12

      9 handguns and two shotguns.

      So someone swam into harbour, climbed in the boat and overpowered a navy person to take the above stated weapons.

      The person new where the armoury was and defence procedure.

      Why not target a gun shop where theres less chance of being shot?  Shot for 9 handguns and two shot guns?  Automatics I could understand.

      This stinks of give us more money

    • stephen says:

      06:58pm | 01/12/12

      Well the NT police have arrested a 40 year old who did the deed.
      (I reckon the thief’s been watching Skyfall - ‘cept Bond remains freed.)

    • SydneyGirl says:

      12:32pm | 01/12/12

      I wish the Punch would stop posting articles by women like the one on Marissa Meyer yesterday.

      It doesn’t strike a chord with folk like me who have seen actual discrimination in conservative societies where it is a struggle to break free. But I - and old women here who grew up in the 40s/50s and have seen discrimination - are perhaps a minority

      But judging by Over it!!!‘s impassioned post (you should get her to write) and the responses, it doesn’t strike a chord with young women either.  So please can we have something more substantial than “role models” (eye roll)  who are ruining our life by not conforming to what I define the sisterhood to be kind of stories?

      Separately but in a related way, last week I had a chat with a Big Issue guy about subscriptions - and I can’t go into it here - but its a pity if there is a feminist agenda on the part of the magazine that ends up undermining the very folk it intends to help, i.e.. homeless people who quite often are men.  If there is, then its feminism gone wrong.

    • FreeSpeech says:

      03:02pm | 01/12/12

      And I think they should stop posting articles critical of Tony Abbott and question his lack of policies.  How unfair is it to pick on Tony.  He can’t help it.  Itsnot his fault.

    • David V. says:

      03:38pm | 01/12/12

      “homeless people who quite often are men.  If there is, then its feminism gone wrong.” - oh ain’t that true, men are the real victims when it comes to unfair decisions in courts, universities, in problems like suicide, mental illness, alcoholism, drug addiction, etc and what help do we get? Nowt.

      Domestic abuse is widespread in certain ethnic communities yet the feminists never speak about it. And coming from the UK I hear of local girls being bashed, kidnapped, etc by foreign men.

    • pa_kelvin says:

      03:42pm | 01/12/12

      Wondering what to have for dinner? Thai crispy chicken for me tonight…. smile

    • stephen says:

      07:02pm | 01/12/12

      Pity about Ponting’s last innings ; he surely was a great Batsman, and I reckon he is one sportsman who should get a gig on TV as a presenter.

    • stephen says:

      07:23pm | 01/12/12

      Stll reckon Leigh Sales would steal the show with an Annie Lennox haircut ... ooh, that girl raises my hackles !

    • stephen says:

      07:37pm | 01/12/12

      I’ve just discovered white pepper again ; it’s the real deal, and the black stuff is only bitter.
      Fine ground, of course, and now I can announce a perfect steak sauce : HP BBQ hot woodsmoke flavour.
      Good for steak and lamb.

      Greenies would not read this and be glad ; in fact, I would be glad if they wouldn’t read me at all.

    • stephen says:

      09:09pm | 01/12/12

      I’m glad that the UN will make Israel determine concessions : I want them to, too.
      But I know how nasty Jews have been to me, too.

      The local Jews are a type apart.
      I have had lots of problems with them, yet the state of Israel is very important, and it has nothing to do with the ‘Second Coming’.

      I need to relate here some time how bad the jews have been to me.
      I think that even the US is being conned.

    • stephen says:

      09:43pm | 01/12/12

      Nah, I dislike the local Jews, and I can take care of them.

    • stephen says:

      11:20pm | 01/12/12

      I still dislike them.
      And I am doing fine.

      ps 4000 thousand years of disendment, you would think, would make them humble, but they think that Freud, Einstein, and Popper dilates culture ; true, they got a local gig, but it remains after all the theory, after all the Holocaustness, and the local jig, that they are are owed something.

      But we are not guilty, and we only, may be generous.

    • stephen says:

      11:39pm | 01/12/12

      Nah, the Americans will know what to do.

    • Jay says:

      07:00am | 02/12/12

      When the people finally have their chance to vote next year, I have no doubt that they will pull out the big stick and punish Labor for their continual failures.As a former Labor voter I must say i am bitterly disappointed at the lack of nous and abandoning of more conservative Labor policies. We had the Carbon Tax forced on us by the Greens and the PM Gillard look the electorate in the eye and lie. She then wonders why people doubt her version on this current scandal. Totally stuffed up the refugee policy after Rudd promised not to change the Howard Policy. I think that lasted 1 month.
      Have sent Australia from a 20 billion credit in the bank to a debt of over 250 billion dollars if you include all the borrowings they have made which Howard had paid off. Where the hell has all of this money gone? Rudd talked about spending like drunken sailors; well Labor has shown that they are not fit to control the cheque book, and it is time they were shown the door.

    • Fed Up says:

      07:15am | 02/12/12

      Just received my electricity bill and it says the Carbon Tax will increase my bill by approx $316 for the average household.
      Seeing im above average i’ll probably be paying around $350 to $400.
      Compensation…$160 worth of tax cuts.
      So add the $350 from Ju-liars Carbon Tax to the 75% increase in electricity prices thanks to State Labor plus the GST from Howard going to have to consider printing my own money.
      Time for Labor and Ju-liar to gooooooooooooooooo!

    • Achmed says:

      09:21am | 02/12/12

      @Fed Up - I dont believe carbon reduction plans are the way to address the problem.
      You cal for Labor to go. Do you know how much Abbott’s Direct Action Carbon Plan will cost taxpayers?  Does anyone?  Plenty of figues have been put forward..$3,2billion was the last one I heard.  That is taxpayer money being paid out of the budget to the polluters. A budget that the Liberals tell us is spiralling out of control and yet they are going to spend another $3.2 billion from it.  They intend to keep paying the tax cuts and compensation but remove the “income” provided by the CT.  The plan that Abbott says will fund this $3.2 billion in part is a cut in the Public Service and other services/waste - think about how many Public Servants that would be.  He isn’t going to cut things like the baby bonus, we saw his rants against the Govt when they reduced it (he said nothing about putting the payments back up) but ranted anyway.  So where will the $3.2 billion come from?
      It will come from the same place all the money in the budget comes from…the taxpayers hip pocket.  So we can look forward to increases in taxes (while with smoke and mirrors keeping the current tax cuts) etc to fund Abbott’s Direct Action Plan

    • Rosie says:

      12:02pm | 02/12/12

      Fed Up

      I am totally fed up as well. This Gillard Labor Govt is trying to help the public cope with the increase in electricity prices and have by all things introduced another ‘watch’ to add to the failed fuel and groceries watch. Yes voters this Labor Govt is taking care of the escalating electricity price rise with an electricity watch even before they have discussed it with the states.

      Just like the proud Polish Rooster PM Gillard was proud and overly excited when she announced the plan this morning. She gave the voters what she thought they wanted hear, whether the plan works or not is another story. Unlike the proud inner beauty Polish Rooster because of its makeup has vision problems. This is so because their top hats often cover their eyes and impair their vision. Gillard’s vision for the nation is based on her remaining in power and nothing to do with what is best for the nation’s future prosperity.

      Since the day Windsor and Oakeshott allowed Julia Gillard to remain the PM her and her Labor Govt has never been in a winning position to retain power if Elections were held any time. 2013 is an election year and nothing has changed, Labor is still behind in the Polls. I think it is only fair to say that this Labor Govt’s first priority is winning and therefore everything they have done was to first of all remain in power and now to win that power again. Who could forget the promises made in 2007/2010, deliverance of those promises??????????

    • Gregg says:

      12:19pm | 02/12/12

      You do easily forget what a different ship the LNP can run when it comes to economics and eliminating wastage that starts with not just entertaining foolish ideas like engaging more consultants to look at a VFT proposal just because the Greens have it on their wish list.
      Sure it may have possibilities to go along with something like a decentralisation and national water development program but as a stand alone wish, the numbers of travellers and possible times just do not stack up.
      Similar investigations would have seen many other bright Labor ideas as not being so bright and in fact Labor are busily pulling much funding themselves and so the public service may be more than a bit on the fat side and so it seems you would be happy to pay ever more taxes to keep them in airconditioned offices getting fatter indefinitely.
      Sorry, life like that is unsustainable.
      As for the LNP carbon scheme, it certainly has a lot more of a flexible approach to expenditure than what the current scheme has and includes Billions$$$$$ being paid out of Australians pockets to UN funds.

      It is acknowledged by many that no scheme can be expected to really reduce CO2 in any significant percentage given global population growth and third world countries huge populations increasing their energy consumptions.
      So perhaps something needs to be done to help CO2 absorption and that is where the LNP greening Australia aspect of their policy is something worthwhile.

      But you just keep with Abbott, Abbott, Abbott and forget the relevance of LNP policies and hey do not forget to keep telling Julia to be very afraid!

    • Achmed says:

      01:42pm | 02/12/12

      Gregg - I will keep on questioning Abbott’s policy.  I’ll try to write more slowly so you can understand. I don’t believe in any carbon reduction plan.  I dont know what you don’t understand in that sentence.

      Yet to see any evidence that Abbott’s will be less costly to taxpayers than the current CT.  Yet to see how he will fund it.  Yet to see where this land is that he’s going to plant all these trees on….he needs na area the size of Tasmania.  Yet to see how he will continue to fund the tax cuts.  Yet to see how he will make sure that the polluters properly spend the taxpayer money he plans to give them.

      I dont see anything pro-Gillard in this.  I dont see anything anti- Abbott.  I think they are reasonable questions that need to be answered.  Or should we just blindly and not question Abbott…being a bit precious aren’t we?

      I think it is more the case that the questions can’t be answered and the 30% know that and are scared when people raise them

    • Rosie says:

      01:59pm | 02/12/12


      Yes we know that Abbott’s Direct Action Plan will be expensive but the renewable energy that will come out of Direct Action is the same as what Labor is trying to achieve plus the carbon tax. This is the reason why Abbott will repeal the carbon tax if he wins Govt. Abbott’s Direct Action is capped and could easily delay the plan if after learning that Labor has wasted too much money and that an Abbott Govt just simply cannot afford to implement straight away. Carbon tax can only work if the tax keeps going up and up and up.

      Rudd/Gillard Labor Govts have made a mess of everything. The nation needs an alternative Govt to begin again by first getting everything in order before they begin to implement the policies they believe will take the nation forward. Another term of a Labor Govt will only delay the inevitable.

      Sorry Achmed but it doesn’t matter what comes out of the mouths of Gillard, the Labor Party and Labor sympathizers smart people just want them out for another Govt to sort out the mess before beginning afresh. The other thing we can be certain of is every dollar spent by this Govt is a another dollar borrowed.

    • Joan says:

      03:12pm | 02/12/12


      The ALP have the best part of a year to pick up just 0.5% and they’ll be in a winning position again. Read the writing on the wall here.

      It says that Abbott is going to lose another election, and so he should. He is deservedly the most unpopular Opposition leader in Australian history. Good riddance.

    • TimB says:

      04:17pm | 02/12/12

      @ Joan/AASQ, that’s funny. The latest galaxy poll has the ALP losing another 3-4% 2PP vote.

      1 square forward a million squares back. I can’t wait until your mob loses the next election and you and all your alter-egos vanish in shame.

    • Rosie says:

      04:26pm | 02/12/12

      @ The Not The Real Joan

      I saw that this morning on ABC Insiders and off course it is only the rusted on Labor supporters that found it music to their ears. Honestly, it was a joke made worse because it was featured on the ABC Barry Cassidy’s Insiders television show.

      Sorry Not The Joan but it doesn’t matter what comes out of the mouths of Gillard, the Labor Party and Labor sympathizers, smart people just want them out for another Govt to sort out the mess before beginning afresh. The other thing we can be certain of is every dollar spent by this Govt is a another dollar borrowed.

      Am watching the cricket while blogging and looks like Aust is going to lose. I blame Gillard because with the political karma bestowed to the nation by her wrong doings comes more bad luck. The only thing we won was a seat on the Security Council but a waste of money when it was time to vote Aust abstained.

    • Gregg says:

      06:28pm | 02/12/12

      ” Yet to see how he will fund it.  Yet to see where this land is that he’s going to plant all these trees on….he needs na area the size of Tasmania. “

      Do you have any idea of the size of Australia and just how much land there is that is not used for agriculture and even with agricultural land, how effective wind breaks etc. can be and if you couple greening up with better water management for both the environment and food production, it can all become win, win, win and more winning.

      As for tax cuts, yep there’s a lot of money spending that Labor have introduced with one hell of a lot of borrowing and if you think anybody, the LNP included can come in and wave a magic wand to keep tax cuts and not have to find expenditure reductions and even continue borrowing in the immediate term, then you’re sadly mistaken.
      But there is such a thing as income growth and that usually means taxes go up anyway and when you couple that with tighter spending, you work your way back to a balanced budget, exactly something of the same that Howard did after Hawke/Keating to get back into a surplus budget.
      He had an aptly named Razor Gang!

      Do not go slitting your own wrists though for there can eventually be a much better society when it is not relying so much on ramping up the borrowing for all that does is create interest on borrowings and the vicious circle means a government in that mode will forever just keep borrowing more and more to fund promises.
      Eventually you have the cost of borrowing going up and another country headed to where the likes of the US, Greece and a few others are.

      It might even be that going to a second term, a new government will say to the people it’s like this - have taxation unchanged along with expectations that Labor create and our international borrowings go up abd our and our nett available revenue is actually reduced because of the interest bill.
      What would you as a responsible Australian choose?
      Tighten the belt and be a bit more thrifty minded or do nothing other than to accept unfunded promises and be happy with your nation declining even further.

    • Joan says:

      06:47pm | 02/12/12


      I know. You blame everything on the PM. We also won the last two elections, by the way, and we’ll win the next one too. You can blame those losses on Tony Abbott.

    • Achmed says:

      09:47am | 02/12/12

      QLD LNP provide a disturbing insight into what will happen if Abbott is elected as PM.  He has stated Premier Campbell Newman and his team were doing an “outstanding job”. 
      Then there is the Liberals in WA.  They took the state deficit from $3 billion to $20 billion in less than 4 years.  Despite record royalties payments and massive cost increases in energy and water.

    • Achmed says:

      10:09am | 02/12/12

      Looking at the poll published today.  most would like to see Gillard address the allegations being made by the the Abbott and the Bishop.

      I agree.  She should address the allegations.  But in keeping with our judicial system the Abbott and the Bishop should provide copies of ALL the evidence.  Every document, every Stat dec, notes of every interview they have conducted.  That way it is finished with!! 

      Stop this ‘water torture’ of bringing out another allegation when it is shown they can’t prove another.

      Get the Abbott and the Bishop back to discussing policy.  Lest see some debate about policy in our Parliament, lets see our politicians doing what we put them for, to run the country.

      If all the Abbott has to get himself elected next year is “she’s a bad girl” God help us!

    • Rosie says:

      06:46pm | 02/12/12


      Cricket is very slow going to lose for sure can’t see the Aussies getting the runs. Siddle should have been in the team. Aust should have won the Adelaide test if not for everyone feeling sorry for Siddle because he was tired from bowling to many overs. Then again left him out of the Perth team because poor Siddle had not recovered fully from the Adelaide test. I call BS to feeling sorry for Siddle and Siddle acting like he couldn’t stand on his feet, yet he agreed to bowl two more overs. No wonder Aust couldn’t get the last two wickets. All the time I have been watching cricket never once saw fast bowlers carry on like the way in which Siddle did and everyone else feeling sorry for him. Lillee, MacGrath, Thommo, etc etc

      Back to Gillard, you Labor guys should really move, the damage to Gillard has been done, she is tainted from the way in which she conducted herself in the AWU scandal. Only time will that stain disappear from the minds of the Australian people. That was what Abbott and Bishop tried to achieve and they achieved it brilliantly - a stellar performance.

    • Robert S McCormick says:

      10:18am | 02/12/12

      Let’s Conduct a Poll!
      It’s multi-partisan, so pick on any politician in any parliament in OZ
      It’s non-gender specific
      Doubtless any male who nominates the words of some female will be branded a “Sexist” & a “Misogynist”.
      Any female who nominates the words of some male will be branded “Sexist” &” Misandrist”
      Both will also be branded as Racist, Xenophobic or some such!
      Nominations are now Open for the Politician who:
      “Has made the Most Stupid Statement in 2012”
      To start it going I am going to nominate the Federal Member for Maribyrnong: Bill Shorten.
      Former National Secretary of the AWU (2001-2007)
      Funny how that particular Union keeps cropping up isn’t it?
      The PM made some sort of statement.No-one probably remembers what she said for most of us had long-since hit the mute button.
      Billy was asked to comment on it.
      He admitted he did not know what the PM had said.
      He had neither read nor heard her statement.
      He backed the PM in whatever she had said. It didn’t matter what she had said but he still agreed with anything she had said!
      Billy left himself wide open didn’t he?
      Even if she had said she was resigning he tied himself into totally agreeing with her!
      This is the person being touted as a future ALP Leader.
      #2 might be Cory Bernardi over his “sex with beasts” nonsense.

    • Gregg says:

      12:25pm | 02/12/12

      I wonder whether his visit to the pie shop was on the way home from having done that interview!
      Suppose a pie in the face is the new version of egg all over it.
      The interview was Barry’s #1 politico effort for 2012 on insiders this morning btw.

    • TimB says:

      12:30pm | 02/12/12

      Conroy has to be up there:

      ““I have unfettered legal power. If I say to everyone in this room ‘if you want to bid in our spectrum auction you’d better wear red underpants on your head’, I’ve got some news for you. You’ll be wearing them on your head.”

      What a douchebag.

    • mikey says:

      12:28pm | 02/12/12

      The award for the year’s greatest hypocrite should go to Tony Abbot. 

      His only tactic all year has been to ‘play the man’ (actually a woman in this instance) and then bleat like a spoilt child when he received a dose of his own medicine.  Like all bullys he is good at dishing it out but not very good at taking it.

    • the moor says:

      01:00pm | 02/12/12

      Abbot and Bishop’s petty effort at the conclusion of the last session of Parliament says a lot about their qualities as people.  They might not be embarrassed by their behaviour but I am.

      For three years now they have done little more than wage an unrelenting campaign of character assassination against Gillard in an attempt to win government.  It is a tactic both unbecoming and unworthy of people who aspire to lead the country and we deserve better from the Liberals.

    • pa_kelvin says:

      01:44pm | 02/12/12

      Gillard and co’ petty effort at the conclusion of the last session of Parliament says a lot about their qualities as people.  They might not be embarrassed by their behaviour but I am.

        For three years now they have done little more than wage an unrelenting campaign of character assassination against Abbott in an attempt to retain government.  It is a tactic both unbecoming and unworthy of people who aspire to lead the country and we deserve better from the Labor Party….
      Sorry… you had a couple of typo’s in there.. It’s fixed now.. smile

    • the moor says:

      06:19pm | 02/12/12

      paks you might not be embarrassed by what the Liberal Party has become but I am.

    • The Tony Abbott School of Political Smear (TTASoPS says:

      03:59pm | 02/12/12

      TTASoPS : You have clearly broken the law !

      Australia : Which one ?

      TTASoPS : I don’t know. Ask a lawyer.


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