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And Chris Paine told us about the exact moment he discovered he was a man, not a boy

What did you guys get up to?

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    • acotrel says:

      07:36am | 08/12/12

      ‘Radio station 2Day FM has previously been in trouble with Acma for incidents including one when a 14-year-old girl revealed on air that she had been raped’

      Is 2DayFM an Australian radio station ?.

    • andye says:

      10:24am | 08/12/12

      @acotrel - They are part of the Austereo network and are located just near World Square in Sydney. Austereo have capital city radio stations and an internet indie one.

    • acotrel says:

      05:30am | 08/12/12

      Why is that sheila in the photo wearing that black thing over her head ? Is she the Chief Torturer for the Inquisition ? And who is the fella in the suit who is meeting Santa Claus ?

    • Gregg says:

      08:24am | 08/12/12

      The fella is quite likely a mafioso and his shiela just decides to dress demurely and you must have had some strange experiences sitting on Santa’s knee.

    • Mouse says:

      08:50am | 08/12/12

      Maybe she is having a bad hair day??  lol :o)

    • andye says:

      10:25am | 08/12/12

      Muslim infiltrator. *taps nose*

    • Mouse says:

      12:43pm | 08/12/12

      Oh andye, you cynic you!!!!  lol ;o)

    • pa_kelvin says:

      04:43pm | 08/12/12

      And whats with the salad bowl on the old guys head??

    • Gregg says:

      05:38am | 08/12/12

      Had my hundred&second; visit to the Red Cross yesterday and on the way home, took my turn off and then a few kilometres down the road thought the road looked unfamiliar and I had missed the turn, did Uie ( new word is it) or should we spell it Ewie or Ewy! and anyway seeing as Uie id better I went back a couple of Km. before remembering I had indeed taken my turn and was on the right road and so did another Uie!

      Damm red cross must be taking out brain cells as well!

      Anyway, get home and see Chris Paine claiming to be nearly a man and so I had enough brain cells to put in how some women can do the BBQs and remove hair without even going to Brazil!
      He or Punch could not have liked that for it did not get put up and that’s not too manly CP.

      This morning I see the thugs in Fairfield are out taking on elderly women in wheel chairs, those real men out the gutter and Japan has had another tsunami, just a small one though you would not want to be near a beach with a one metre increase in sea level.
      Maybe a warm up for the big May’an Julia told us so event to come and all that needs to be fitted into enjoyment without any more Xmases!

      Meanwhile, over in Indonesia where Julia would have us or a lot of us head for our future we have just a tad more corruption being exposed.
      http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-07/top-indonesian-minister-resigns-amid-corruption-allegations/4415866
      Julia might even have some from parliament she could nominate to slide in quite comfortably over there!

      And it does beg the question of just how high a bit of corruption might go with all that money coming in with people who claim to being persecuted somewhere.

    • io says:

      11:43am | 08/12/12

      breaking news from what’s left of the mind of gregg
      Where would we be without his ramblings?

    • Gratuitous Adviser says:

      06:11am | 08/12/12

      Little did anyone realise that a hoax call from a ratings hungry Sydney radio station would be successful in the first place and then end in such tragedy.  All will now be mourning the loss of an innocent and probably lowly paid nurse, Jacintha Saldanha, who was tragically placed in an embarrassing position by immature radio announcers, their listening audience and the hospital itself.

      I have noticed that the British media are salivating at the opportunity of taking the high moral ground on this issue and transferring some of the Leveson enquiry heat to another media outlet, and Australian as well, that’s a bonus. 

      Some legislative (British/Australian) oversight of the media should come out of this but both Governments are so average and beholden to lobbyists, nothing will happen other than spin.

    • Stuned says:

      08:04am | 08/12/12

      WHY would a stupid radio stunt make someone feel they had to kill themself?

    • Gregg says:

      08:52am | 08/12/12

      @Stunned or stoned is it?
      Some people working in association with Royals would it seems place a high standard for themselves.
      Perhaps the responsibility she saw herself having made her more tense and worrisome and the incident was just enough to tip her over the edge.

    • Bob from the bush says:

      03:52pm | 08/12/12

      Stunened/Stunned the stunt in itself probably didn’t do it but if you add intense piss-taking by c-workers & being chewed out by your boss when you’re already feeling crap might do it

    • ma_kelvin says:

      06:28am | 08/12/12

      Christmas iis only a few weeks away and for the first time in our lives pa_kelvin and I are worth more alive than dead.
      We have spent all our lives working hard to raise our 3 children to the best of our abilities.  They are all fantastic human beings and we love them more than life itself.  One thought I had that struck me the other day that was an interesting fact about pa_kelvin and I. pa_kelvin and I have always had a accidential life insurance policy of a million dollars.  As we run a small business we are always struggling and trying to do the best to pay our bills and make a descent profit but would never be worth or hit a million dollars. After 30 years in the flooring business pa_kelvin is now worth more than 2 million dollars and for the first time we are both worth more alive than dead.
      Crazy I know sometimes when you work hard crazy things like this pops into my head.
      pa_kelvin and I really need a holiday with our family and try and relax and remember what Christmas is all about and that is family, giving and loving each other. Thanks to punchers for helping us through the tough times. love you all

    • Chris L says:

      09:04am | 08/12/12

      I’m sure your kids wouldn’t consider this the first time.

    • Mouse says:

      09:11am | 08/12/12

      That’s great ma-K, now, at long last, it is a better idea to hang onto pa_k!  (only joking of course! lol)  How did your birthday getaway go? pa_k didn’t let us know (either that or I missed it) I hope you had a wonderful few days off.  Am reaaaaaaaaaly glad to hear that his test results came back with a good result, the best Chrissie present! 
      Next year for me will be travel tilme, getting the campertrailer all set up over Christmas/New Year and after the kids go back to school, will be off into the wild blue yonder. I go in for another op in 10 days (hopefully the last)  and, touch wood, will be given the all clear in January. So, regardless of what they say, we are just going to hit the road. I do want to go back to WA and explore the Margret River area and along the SW coast back through to Esperance. Then up to Darwin, maybe visit the old cattle station I was born at near Kings Canyon on the way.  It’s been a long time coming, like you and pa_k, but it will be worth all the hard work to get here. 
      Both of you have a lovely Christmas, with your family, and you will be in my thoughts as I sit on Santa’s knee (more like falling off! :oD) drinking champers!! lol ;o)

    • Rose says:

      10:54am | 08/12/12

      Of course, you may be measuring your worth in financial terms but I have no doubt that your kids think of the worth of having you around in an emotional sense. In which case you’ve always been worth more alive!!!

    • pa_kelvin says:

      10:59am | 08/12/12

      Hi Mouse… Birthday weekend was great, got upgraded to a ocean front room due to the aircon not working in the room they put us in…
      Camper trailer?? If it dont have 5 stars and an ensuite its not for me.. smile As for the places you plan to visit sounds great.. Whodu thunk you were a country Mouse… smile

    • Mouse says:

      12:57pm | 08/12/12

      pa_k, sounds like a good time was had by all and ma_k got her extra bit of luxury!!
      5 star?? Got that covered! Have a separate shower cubicle thingy with a solar shower, just as long as I remember that showers are now a shorter time!  Born country, grew up city, moved back country when I could.  The hurley burley of the city is great, for short periods of time, so me, being a bit of a solitary Mouse, prefers country.  Now that my feet are getting very itchy I will go and spend more time getting back into it.  Never fear, I have a laptop, satellite dish and generator, so will still be able to keep up with the news and the Punch, LOL,  heaven forbid!!  Come on February!!!  lol :o)

    • ma_kelvin says:

      01:17pm | 08/12/12

      @Chris L, @Mouse,@Rose, You are all correct in saying our kids think of us not in money terms but love terms.
      There is no money in this world that can pay for having a great family.
      By being alive and working hard is giving our children and their children a great example for the future.  However society still measures people by their money status. I have a great big chip on my shoulder about people ripping people off and taking advantage of hard working people. pa-kelvin has always done the right thing all of his life and its a miracle we have made it this far.
      Thats Life in our business life but no one can take away the love for your family and friends it worth more to this country than bloody money.
      @mouse pa_kelvin look forward to hearing about your planned trip and hope you keep a diary to send to us punchers so we can experience your trip too. You really deserve this trip and well done in your positive attitude and feedback to us. Your family is very lucky to have such a great Mother and great Aussie sense of humour too.

    • PJ says:

      06:39am | 08/12/12

      Still mourning our Mining Boom.
      Bloomberg reports African Mining is booming this year. So far 2012 it has grown from Minus 16.8% to Plus 32% under the same Commodity prices faced in Australia. Bloomberg also states, that despite a general recession, like manufacturing, African Economies have grown 3% this year thanks to the Mining Boom. Our precious, and given the Gillard Governments reckless spending, very necessary Mining boom is packing up and off to Africa. It cannot be Commodity prices because Africa faces the same restraint?

      “Resources projects in Australia were 40 per cent more expensive than in the US and its workforce was 60 per cent less productive than the US.”
      ANDREW BURRELL: The Australian. This is why, and the Australian goes on to report:

      “The local head of US energy giant Chevron, the biggest foreign investor in Australia, has warned $100 billion worth of projects are “hanging in the balance” due to soaring costs and declining confidence in the federal government’s policy settings.”

      In a UK meeting with world investors BHP’s CEO Kloppers continually referred to the Australian people’s loss of the Olympic Dam project worth $30 Billion to Australia. Kloppers warn Investors that investment in mining projects in Australia were no longer profitable thanks to MRRT (threatening a 30% take) and Carbon take adding 15% to costs.

      Rio Tintos China MD, Mr Bauert, told the a conference Australia had become the most expensive place to do business for Rio after being considered the cheapest five years ago.

      Why didnt they just leave it alone?

      We’ve got the worrying prospect of our growing debt.
      Australia is threatened under $300 Billion debt and $120 billion dollar budget deficit black hole. All achieved in 4 years. Another 4 years and $600 billion debt and $240 billion debt? No, its unlikely our Loan sharks will loan us much more. That’s why we’re selling the Farm now.

      Soon time for us to repay.

      We’ve got social issues now.
      - We’ve got 12.5% of our 1.5 million kids growing up in homes where no Aussie has a job,
      - We have SA reporting a 38% hike in utility cut offs for Australian families that could no longer pay there bills and - the homeless increased 17% also under the Gillard Government.

      Illegal immigration failure threatens to blow more budgets and divert monies away from domestic issues.
      These people are ignored while the Gillard Government has its failed illegal immigrants debacle. We were blowing $1.7 Billion on 13,750 illegals plus $300 million a year defending ourselves against their law suits. Now ... who knows the cost of failure.

      Mass immigration through temporary visas and the Asylum system is a nasty little recipe in a cooling economy. The Gillard Governments pursuit of the Big Australia has seen large youth unemployment, where up to 30% of some sections are unemployed. Some 53.6% of our new jobs created over the past 5 years went to cheaper incoming arrivals on temporary visas.
      - the Gillard Government has given control of our borders to big business.
      - the 457 visa has removed the onus on employers to train or employ Aussies, just get a temporary from overseas in stead.
      - we’re talking about building tower blocks in suburbs, scraping around for monies to pay for more infrastructure and services to cater for incoming numbers we’ll struggle to employ once the mining boom finally dies.
      - the loss of our farmland to housing and cramping up of our roads is entirely driven by mass immigration.

      With the example of the UK situation after 13 years of Labour following the same policies is not enough warning for Australians on what we might become, well….

    • Steve says:

      07:26am | 08/12/12

      African mining experience strong growth off a low base? Shocking!

      Australia no longer cheaper than Africa to do business? Doubly shocking, I guess we should all pay ourselves less than Africans.

      Debt surged under Labor? Yep, there was a thing called the GFC, and of that $300b debt (is this right?) the Liberal Government would have incurred close to this anyway as they agreed to all but a small amount of the stimulus and are against raising revenue while still promising superfluous things like 6 months maternity leave, keeping baby bonus etc.

      Labor are certainly no saviours, but don’t pretend like you’d have no problems (or the problems would be any different) under a Liberal government.

    • ma_kelvin says:

      07:36am | 08/12/12

      @PJ. Yes you are correct in everything you say but also consider the past history of australia. In the 1800’s Gold fever struck this country.  People from all around the world came to this country to make a better life for themselves. People came from Ireland, scotland, england, smaller numbers from china and many other countries.
      Some made it rich and some did not. Others made money off the gold boom and then the gold fever ran out. Why?  Now we have other riches in this country that the world wants but they want it at a cheaper price. Australians own this countries wealth in the ground a few have made lots of money and some have not. 
      Their is a balance to the whole debate and believe me it should not be political it should be the bottom line and what is good for this country. 
      I am sick of hearing so much political stuff about this topic I wish we could have figures that show how much money this courtry can make from the boom.  Also how we can save money so that the world will still want to purchase the minerals from Australia instead of going overseas.
      PJ or any other of the punchers know any top accountants that could do the profit and loss on the total mining boom over the last 6 years.
      They would need to take into account all the companies such as BHP, Rio Tinto, Hancock profit and losses.  Also how much tax they have paid and how many people in Australia are employed and how many other companies benefit from the mining sector as well as Tax.
      I believe if we can treat the whole mining sector as if it was Australians number one business(which it is) I think we can get to the bottom of it and make our own minds up what we are going to do about it.
      Whatever political party does this will have the vote next year as we are all fully informed off our number one business asset.

    • Martin H says:

      08:00am | 08/12/12

      PJ - Instead of continually whinging on The Punch, do something constructive for a change, get off your butt, nominate yourself for the next federal election, win your seat, go to Canberra and show them how it’s done…lead from the front…all the way with PJ.

    • Gregg says:

      09:11am | 08/12/12

      @ma
      It is all rather a complex scenario ma and for starters you have the financiers be they international as is usual or even what percentage is Australian having to take a longer term look at investments and that is why we have this pipeline of projects that will not always flow for many investments might look good whilst commodity prices are high but if a downwards trend commences and future prospects like China slowing and Europe in a mess make it look as though the trend will continue, you will get that pipeline suddenly drying.

      Resource projects take quite a few years to get productive, some much longer than others depending on complexity of ore bodies and infrastructure needed and that is all time that an enormous ammount of investment can be made with no earnings at all.
      And then there are resource projects that get closed up because of falling demand/prices and there are a few of those dotted around the country, big and smaller, again dead money!

      Saying that resources in the ground belong to Australians is one thing and the reason why state governments have royalties on production, royalties that have to be paid whether a profit is being turned or not.
      If it is unprofitable in Australia to operate and resources stay in the ground, there is no immediate value to anyone.

      Finally, it will be international competition that Australia needs to meet and contend with for whilst the more international suppliers there are, commodity prices will drop when supply outstrips demand and at the same time those international financiers will be looking at our project establishment and operating cost structures and something like the MRRT will not help especially seeing as many financiers are going to be looking at the good profits when commodity prices are high to tide them over all the years when lesser profits or even losses are not so good.

    • Rufferto says:

      09:22am | 08/12/12

      The debt number varies wildly, anything from 40-300 billion depending on how rusted on the Liberal writer. They dont feel the need to stick to accuracy or facts yet screech about “Juliar”.

    • bailey says:

      11:45am | 08/12/12

      more spam from babble-on

      Hope you get paid by the word cause the content is bullshit.

    • ma_kelvin says:

      01:28pm | 08/12/12

      @Gregg, Sorry what you said is Aussie Bullshit its not complicated at all.
      Bloody hell I wish I could get out there and did up some of this Aussie land and get some gold and some diamonds.  With new technology and geological surveying Australia is a big place and we have to take more interest in what our miners are doing.  Also our mining can be done in such a way as to return the digs to a green life support system with trees, wildlife and water systems. All I ask is that when we take it out of the ground that we bloody put it back with new green environments for our children to enjoy.

    • Achmed says:

      02:09pm | 08/12/12

      and yet the amount of iron leaving Australia hasn’t changed.  The main change has been to lowering of the price for the ore.Gillard does not set the price.  Rusted on Liberals who deal in mis-truths and fabrications can’t acknowledge that.
      The mining boom has slowed but only in terms of construction and expansion.  To pay for these things to be done the mining companies need the higher prices that the ore was selling for earlier in the year.  It’s about them having the income to service the loans they take out to fund the expansion and construction.  Note that Roy Hill and other mines are still progressing on schedule. 
      There has been a slow down in construction and expansion, not the amount of ore being dug up and sent overseas.
      Noting that PJ will not reference his so-called facts.  But then the Liberal Newsheet probably does not contain too many actual facts or policy statements, just rants

    • Achmed says:

      04:53pm | 08/12/12

      PJ you ranta a lot..a real lot…cut and paste from selected commentary.

      Canada - miners pay ..ederal tax, Province ta, mining tax and royalties.

      Sth Africa mining tax rate is going up to 55%

    • Gregg says:

      07:59am | 09/12/12

      @ma
      Ignorance is bliss sometimes you know and that’s no BS either.

      You do realise that there are a heap of exploration efforts that go on and all cost money and not all bring up mineral deposits worth digging up.
      Maybe you ought to go and do a bit of study on resources industries so you will know something.

    • Peter#1 says:

      06:51am | 08/12/12

      A MAN OF THE PEOPLE: Murdered officer ‘angelic with a heart of gold’
      JUST 24 hours before he died, Detective Inspector Bryson Anderson had been doing what he always did - helping the community. News.com.au
      As I read this article with tears in my eyes, I wonder “where are they now, those whingey, whiny Civil Libertarians who continually complain when a Police Officer uses capsicum spray or a Taser to subdue a violent miscreant? Their silence is deafening!
      The imbalance between Civil Rights and Civil Responsibilities makes me very angry and it is time that legislators addressed this problem.
      I have no doubt that if Inspector Anderson had used capsicum spray or a Taser or, God forbid, used his weapon to defend himself, there would have been an outcry from the “bleeding heart brigade”. As it is, his reluctance to use force has cost him his life and deprived the community of a fine officer. May he Rest In Peace.

    • Ladyjane says:

      07:46am | 08/12/12

      Well said Peter#1.

    • Ben says:

      08:18am | 08/12/12

      While I acknowledge your frustrations, I think it premature to argue that this experienced officer’s “reluctance to use force has cost him his life”. Let’s wait and see what happens in the subsequent trial/coronial. But I fully agree with your anguish that the community has lost a fine officer. On that note I couldn’t believe the ignorance and callousness of a certain person in a letter published about Detective Inspector Anderson’s death in SMH today, the author claiming the “public expressions of sympathy by political and other leaders is grossly out of proportion.” Despicable.

    • expat says:

      09:31am | 08/12/12

      It appears that ink on white collar workers has caused a bit of a debate..

      http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/national/white-collar-ink-can-you-be-ceo-when-you-look-like-youre-on-parole/comments-fndo6ejf-1226532246518

      Is it time to drop the political correctness and start calling spades, spades?

      Coming into an era where Asian and other eastern cultures are going to have a huge influence on western business and lifestyle, it might be a good time to start to prepare.
      I found one of the biggest cultural differences is that political correctness is far less prominent in business. In Asia for example you will be discriminated against because you have tattoos, people with tattoos in these cultures are associated with crime.

      Obviously this is not limited to tattoos, It apply’s to virtually everything that in the West we have covered with a politically correct blanket.

    • andye says:

      10:41am | 08/12/12

      The whole anti-ink thing seems to have various guises atm. There is the old school “bikies and crims” mindset. Then there is the anti gen y approach. Those Stupid kids. What will they look like when they get older? The whole “asian business” angle is fresh, though. I will give you that.

      Yawn.

      Tattoos should be judged on the quality of the tattoos. I have seen some poorly judged ones and I have seen some utterly beautiful pieces.

      As for suitability, if you are a businessman travelling to asia, perhaps avoid face and neck tattoos? Shouldn’t be too difficult?

      While I have no tattoos (my girl has few, including an awesome large one) I have been a much happier person since I threw away my suit and dressed as I pleased. She works with tattoos that can be visible, so what does it matter? Gen Y seems to think we should live in a world where people should be freer to express themselves. I may be X but I agree.

      Some people need to stop worrying so much about the choices of others.

    • -28 says:

      11:41am | 08/12/12

      spades get upset when called spades but asian spades are more tolerant

    • Tatty_Anne says:

      11:46am | 08/12/12

      I must be a spade then.  I always wanted a tattoo but didn’t get around to it until my sister-in-law & I went for my 40th birthday and got ink. 

      Hubby was so deadset against it, because he had that inate prejudice that all people who have tatts are criminals (he couldn’t reconcile his sweet wife with that image).  He wouldn’t speak to me for two days and then finally relented, asking to see it, he asked if it hurt then got over it.  A few years later something major happened in his life and he got tattooed to commemorate (I laughed and said “NOW you get it”).

      You’re assuming that we westerners will change to accommodate other cultures, when maybe some exposure to everyday non-criminal types with tatts, like me,  will change others attitudes.

    • AdamC says:

      01:21pm | 08/12/12

      The problem with under-25s in Australia is that you never know whether they are members of an outlaw bikie gang or just fashion victims. Tatts have become very mainstream here in the last 10 years.

      Personally, I dislike tatts. I think if anyone is going to get a tatt somewhere that it is visible when wearing a shirt and trousers, you are going to be judged for it. You are right that people from less indulgent cultures are probably going to be even more judgemental towards tattooed people than us relatively laid back, tolerant Australians.

      That is another good reason for young people to think twice before getting a prominent tatt.

    • Expat says:

      12:27pm | 08/12/12

      And tell me again how you are proposing to stop this without bringing civilisation to the dark ages?

      Or should everyone just get on with life and adapt to the changes as they occur?

      People think Australia has an effect on carbon, wait until India kicks into gear later in the decade. At least china has a population controls in place.  India will want to grow and grow fast at any cost.

    • pa_kelvin says:

      11:43am | 08/12/12

      Methinks I might just stick to the Open Thread today… Some of the comments on the other two articles seem a little disturbing….....

    • vox says:

      12:20pm | 08/12/12

      Well, Abbott has recorded his New Year’s resolutions, but he won’t be announcing them until the following year because the P.M. might steal them.
      He did release the fact, (and we appreciate it, I’m sure), that he won’t be driving any more empty pollution spreaders up and down the Pacific Highway in his budgie-smugglers with only an instructional CD from George Pell for company.
      His favoriye CD, “I’m on the Road to Nowhere” got itself rooned when he sat on it. He forget he had put it in his hip pocket.

    • tez says:

      02:38pm | 08/12/12

      Saw the new Bond movie last night and i have gone right off Daniel Craig he walkes just like Tony Abbott

    • Mouse says:

      03:31pm | 08/12/12

      Oh pa_k, I almost fell off my chair laughing at this one!  :oD
      I have 5 cats (but I do have a dog too, so that may counter-act it a bit!), and while I can be outgoing, obedience is a bit of a problem, often.  This may also explain why I have been called schizo at times, in a nice way of course,  but seem to have missed out on the anxious/depressive bit.  Maybe I don’t have the full effects because I don’t actually play with cat poo or use it around the house.  Could be that having a dog and cats that believe they are humans may also contribute to the hit and miss effects of the symptoms by totally confusing the Toxoplasma and making it forget to increase my GABA output, thereby not making me feel like a puppet!  Phew! and here I was thinking that I may have a problem!! 
      Thanks pa-k, keep up the good reporting!!  LOL :o)

    • pa_kelvin says:

      01:26pm | 08/12/12

      I’m sure it’s nothing, but fruit has started appearing in my drinks fridge…
      Is ma_k trying to get me to eat fruit, or just ran out of room in the main fridge?? Ahhh the mystery…. smile

    • Mouse says:

      03:34pm | 08/12/12

      No pa_k, you only have to start worrying when it starts appearing in your alcoholic drinks, in weird shaped glasses, with cream and those cute little umbrellas and plastic animals….. then you know there is a problem!!  lol ;o)

    • pa_kelvin says:

      12:48pm | 09/12/12

      Who puts fruit and cream in their drinks???  Whats the World coming to ?? smile

    • stephen says:

      04:24pm | 08/12/12

      Crikey, Gordon Lightfoot has just recorded a Christman special ... and at 74.

      (I reckon the only name for it would be a ‘Stephen Hawking’ tribute.)

    • stephen says:

      04:33pm | 08/12/12

      I saw a photo of Rupert Murdoch’s mum in the Courier on Thursday,  when she about 20.
      She looked exquisite, and I keep thinking about her.

      Everyone should.

    • Gregg says:

      08:05am | 09/12/12

      So we now have a 6pm closing instead of 8pm is it, just for Xmas?
      It’s nearly kind of reminiscent of the six Oçlock pub closing swill days when the knowing would start lining their glasses up wherever they could find space.

      People were getting a bit testy on pranks yesterday and wonder how Julia is now feeling about her timing!

 

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Superman needs saving

Superman needs saving

Can somebody please save Superman? He seems to be going through a bit of a crisis. Eighteen months ago,… Read more

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