“The voters always get it right” was a regular refrain of former prime minister John Howard. He used it to bat away suggestions that election results could somehow be accidental, such as federal Labor’s victory in the 1993 Fightback! election, his own re-election with less than half the popular vote in 1998 when promising to introduce a GST, or the unexpected defeat of the Kennett Government in Victoria in 1999.

The best questions don't necessarily come from those who are paid to ask them. Photo: Ray Strange

One of Howard’s strengths as a politician was his innate respect for the collective wisdom of the voters. It’s the primary reason he didn’t get bent out of shape by defeat in 2007, both at a general election and in his own seat, and helps explain why he’s provided none of the embittered theatrics and revisionist commentary of other past PMs.

Australian voters are not only smart, they’re often smarter than people such as us who write about politics. Writing about politics, especially amid the stage-management of an election campaign, is a bit like pressing your face up against a tapestry. You can become so immersed in the minutiae that you lose a sense of context and fail to appreciate the broader issues which are exercising the public mind.

To this end, Wednesday’s forum at the Rooty Hill RSL was something of a watershed for Australian politics, in that it returned the power to ask questions and demand answers to the public. There was nothing slick or polished about it at all. It was a genuine conversation where voters were afforded a chance to follow up their question if the subject had been dodged.

The forum also showed how there is a gap between the questions journalists ask, and the way they ask them, and the questions voters ask and the way they ask them.

It also showed that there is a gap between the importance which voters are placing on some key issues in this campaign, and the importance they have been afforded by the political parties.

Easily the biggest of these was the manner in which Kevin Rudd was replaced as prime minister by Julia Gillard. Both politicians and journalists know that politics is a blood sport and are probably somewhat inured to the events of June 24, despite their unprecedented and brutal quality. The public is clearly still confused and offended by the fact that their elected prime minister, whether they liked him or not, was knocked off by the factions. And it’s elitist nonsense to say that this confusion stems from their misunderstanding of the parliamentary system – namely that in Australia it’s not the public which directly elects the prime minister but the Caucus or Party Room through the leadership ballot. Technically that is true, but Australians believe, understandably enough, that they went to the election in 2007 and voted for (or against) their local Labor candidate, they were by implication endorsing or rejecting Kevin Rudd as PM.

The question on this issue to Julia Gillard at Wednesday’s debate gave her the most awkward moment of the night, and signalled the beginning of a fairly tense hour where she often sounded defensive. Tony Abbott’s ability to capitalise on the issue was undermined somewhat by the cuteness of his distinction about how it matters more that a PM such as Rudd gets knifed than a dime-a-dozen Opposition Leader such as Malcolm Turnbull. But despite his trademark circumlocution on the issue, it was still one he was happy to rabbit on about, and which Gillard was desperate to avoid.
Because politicians and the people who write about them think bastardry and back-stabbing are the stuff of politics, we have all underestimated the extent to which this issue continues to resonate with the community.

The second feature of the forum which probably surprised the political class was the extent to which voters were spitting venom about state issues. Both Labor and the Coalition are obviously aware that voters in NSW and Queensland are unhappy with what’s called the Labor “brand”, to use that gimmicky marketing term. But the utter derision which met all talk of NSW Labor at Rooty Hill on Wednesday suggested that maybe politicians from both sides and journalists across the media have underestimated it.

The timing of the state-based aspect of the evening could not have been much worse for Julia Gillard. The (Victorian) Prime Minister had that same day announced the $2.1 billion western Sydney rail project – something which, on paper, should have been met with spontaneous dancing in the streets in Labor’s heartland. The problem is that Sydney voters – particularly lower-income voters in areas where infrastructure has not kept up with urban sprawl – are now trained to have an immediate Pavlovian response any time the words “transport blueprint” exit the gob of anybody in the ALP. Years of bitter experience have taught them that such commitments are not worth the paper they’re written on by extravagantly-paid consultants. The one thing you should give Sydney’s Anthony Albanese credit for is bravery, of the crazy-brave kind, in knowingly visiting the very policy area which has become synonymous with dithering, inaction and deceit at the state level.

The third thing which became clear at Rooty Hill was the extent to which voters are wise to ethereal concepts such as Julia Gillard’s citizens forum on climate change and the ETS as being talkfests which are aimed more at buying political time than making a hard decision. In an excellent column in this newspaper this week Graham Richardson traced the problems with Labor’s campaign to the moment that citizens panel was announced by Julia Gillard. Richo’s gut-instinct assessment of this turning point was borne out by some of the arm-folding and eye-rolling which we saw at Rooty Hill on this issue, versus Abbott’s simple line about general elections being the most democratic way to let the nation rule on policy.

It is hard to know the extent to which Wednesday’s forum shifted votes, if at all. But it certainly shone such a very bright light on the problems for Labor in western Sydney. So much so that, if I were the member for Lindsay David Bradbury, I would have been shouting that the television that I didn’t want my Foxtel after all, and gone and put a record on.

To conclude as I began with a Howard line – some years ago Howard told a dinner for a bunch of us from The Daily Telegraph, all of whom were sagely opining that Australia was set to become a republic at the then-looming referendum, that we were all 100 per cent wrong and that Australia would be voting no. His reasoning was based on a voxpop in that day’s Tele of the Parramatta Eels cheerleaders, a majority of whom were opposed to the constitutional change because they didn’t understand the model, thought it gave too much power to politicians, or would cost too much. Howard said at the time: “If the Parramatta Eels cheerleaders are voting no to the republic Australia is voting no to the republic.”

You would be getting ahead of yourself to afford the same talismanic quality to the crowd at Rooty Hill the other night. But it was a pretty confronting insight into Labor’s problems out west, which in the absence of an eleventh-hour reversal in voter sentiment, will have to be offset by holding seats or picking some up elsewhere on Saturday week.

53 comments

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    • Eric says:

      07:32am | 14/08/10

      I still think Labor will scrape it in this time - the Libs were just coming from too far behind, and defeating a one-term government is a rarity.

      However, Abbott has done better than almost everyone thought he could, and the ALP has messed up at every turn. Watch out for the next election, when Combet or whoever is PM will have a real struggle.

    • Steve says:

      11:59am | 14/08/10

      I agree Eric and I think people have not given Abbott the cedit he deserves. 9 months ago Labor would have almost doubled its majority and now we are talkng about ‘Hung Parliaments’ !

      I have voted Labor all my life and think there are many like me who are so dis-enchated with the ‘Labor Brand’ that they will be thinking voting conservative is a much safer option.

      I still give Abbott an outside chance.

    • Dissident says:

      01:39pm | 14/08/10

      I think in the grand scheme of things, Tony Abbott - even in losing as expected - will have done at least as much as he was asked to do. That is, he was bought in to save the furniture when the Liberals were facing a whitewash. If he picks up any seats, that is a bonus.

      Further, despite the ideological aversion I have to socialist politics, another term or two of socialist leadership isn’t going to be too bad for Australia. We will just treat water until the next Conservative government bails us out and advances the cause of the country.

      The only permanent damage that can be done is the imposition of a horrendously unfair mining tax - because we know that taxes don’t ever get canned after they have been introduced. That will punish both the mining industry and WA + QLD disproportionally much more than the other States and Territories, but I guess people from Sydney and Melbourne don’t give a damn because they aren’t paying…

      In the final analysis, good job Tony. Hopefully a bit of young talent will come through the Liberal party in the next couple years to offer a better chance of victory next time, but you have done everything asked of you and can be proud of it.

    • Julie Coker-Godson says:

      06:35pm | 14/08/10

      Although I believe Labor will just get in, I am hoping they won’t and am still keeping the proverbial “fingers crossed”.

      I have always been offended by academia and intellectuals writing off the opinions of those they see as the “common people” as not being worth anything of particular note.  They have in the past, and remain now, wrong in every respect.  Australians have always been suspicious of authority anyway and the fact that they might not hold degrees in political science or journalism does not mean that they cannot articulate an argument against any particular government policy of the day.  This article addresses that issue and I am pleased to see it acknowledged at long last.  Thank you DP.

    • Gregg says:

      09:34pm | 14/08/10

      That dissident type thinking of ” another term or two of socialist leadership isn’t going to be too bad for Australia ” is scarier not so much for the thought of having them win at all but if ”  but I guess people from Sydney and Melbourne don’t give a damn because they aren’t paying…” is anything near reality, there’ll be a whole lot more people seeing a lot less in way of revenue distribution if your prediction on permanent damage comes to pass.
      Do you think all the people in Australia want to have services greatly diminished and/or be paying higher taxes while there is higher unemployment all because of a financially incompetent government.
      One disastrous term could easily become a calamitous second term and a third somewhat an Icelandic Greek Argentinian mongrel.
      I wonder if there’re enough aboriginals and bush about to teach enough of us on bush tucker survival.

    • Robert Smissen, rural SA, God's own country says:

      12:49am | 15/08/10

      You are probably right unfortunately but the thing that scares the crap out of me is that the Greens could hold the balance of power

    • Nick says:

      08:10am | 14/08/10

      I think it’s drawing a long bow to assume a crowd of beleaguered NSW voters represents the view of the majority of Australians. And, have you checked the polls today? Labor is broadening the gap.

    • fairsfair says:

      12:23pm | 14/08/10

      I don’t think you can trust the polls Nick, because the ask the same people over and over again… And what is with our obsession in knowing who others are going to vote for? Do we take interest in such numbers because we think we have to because they are plastered in front of us daily? I have absolutely no idea what is going to happen on Aug 21 - but I really do think that the Australian Media (mainstream)  have let the Australian Public down. Their focus on the personal attributes of the leaders and pouncing on irrelevant topics at every opportunity have not helped in any sense. I think if we could vote on who was giving us news each day beleaguered Rooty Hill would get anyone’s vote over “Mark Riley cuts through the Spin” - who I might ad in an debate on policy the other day offered labour’s point of view whilst chatting with Graham RIchardson. I couldn’t believe that he was listed as a “Political Commentator” when the public should be told he is a die hard labour man. And don’t get me started on ch9 with the Oakes/Latham situation. It has got more airtime than proposed decisions that willl affect each and every Australian in the next three years. I feel like the wool has been pulled over my eyes - everyone knows it has been happening, but nobody has tried to fix it. Like witnessing a car accident and not rendering first aid. I always belived the Australian electoral system was democratic and lacked the rediculous aspects of campaigns such as in the US. This time round - I am really disenchanted by the entire set up and I am really worried about my future for the first time in my life.

    • Julie Coker-Godson says:

      06:41pm | 14/08/10

      @fairsay:  Right on, agree with every word.  The only thing the people can do, if they care enough about how politicians’ decisions affect our future, is to speak up, speak out and speak loud about our feelings on important issues affecting our country and our fellow Australians.  If we don’t, nothing will change.

    • Polly Waffle says:

      08:49am | 14/08/10

      Who ever you vote for, you get a politician, and that is the problem.  And there seems to be something in the air in the House on the Hill that contaminates anyone who sits in it.  I hope in the future there will be more Independants like Ted Mack.

    • The Badger says:

      12:10pm | 14/08/10

      Vote: The instrument and symbol of a free man"s power to make a fool of himself and a wreck of his country.
      Ambrose Bierce

      This coming Saturday
      Vote early - Vote often

    • David says:

      08:52am | 14/08/10

      Oh yes, there are elements in the community who are more than capable of asking awkward questions - and will do so if given the opportunity.  It is not the sort of exercise politicians or the media could afford to allow to happen too often.
      It is (almost) amusing to sometimes find that a letter I have written to the editor appears, almost word for word, in an editorial. I doubt the press even thinks of it as plagiarism.  Those using it could certainly not afford to acknowledge the source.
      The reality is that there are people out there who can see the issues very clearly. They can - even taking into account the politics and the economics - see solutions. It is however important that these people be silenced because sometimes it is more important for some to have something to argue about in order to justify their existence.

    • The Badger says:

      09:05am | 14/08/10

      The most interesting thing in this article is that you refer to “thepunch.com.au” as a newspaper.
      Is this part of Murdoch acclimatization policy to paying for content?

    • Trajan says:

      09:07am | 14/08/10

      Undoubtedly politicians the world over underestimate/take for granted the electorate, it is a failing more common now then in years gone by.

      The reason why is complex,  but in essence - it is a feeling of superiority born of an arrogant assumption that automatically politicians know ‘better’ than their potential voters.

      The electorate can sense this, Gillard is a true Laborite she has all the attributes of arrogance and the pomposity it entails.  Gillard has not sensed the street feeling.

      Australians are fed up of being ‘talked down to’, the election will put her in her place, even though the ETS plans have been ‘shelved’ more green taxes is not what is wanted right now and even if it is ‘down the line’ the threat is there, it will mean, Labor’s downfall.

      Trajan, Skeptocat.

    • The Badger says:

      12:05pm | 14/08/10

      Abbott is a true Conservative, he has all the attributes of arrogance, born to rule attitude and the pomposity it entails.

      Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich by promising to protect each from the other.
      Oscar Ameringer

    • Robert Smissen, rural SA, God's own country says:

      12:54am | 15/08/10

      @ The Badger, the differnce is that Red Ghoulia is all about her advancement, Mr Abbott works as a volunteer often behind the scenes helping thos less fortunate. Remember Julia Back both Latham & Rudd to be PM, if that doesnt tell you she hasn’t a clue, nothing will.

    • Joan says:

      09:54am | 14/08/10

      Polls seem to indicate a swing to Labor. And I don’t believe voters are always smart or `get it right`-  some women say they will vote for Gillard because she is a woman and want a woman PM.. A read of David Marrs article ( Insight Age) on Gillard - show a woman whose life is that of a cog in the Labor wheel, a passionless woman, driven like a cog with just one purpose., a dull,colourless, passionless life, the life of a cog. No airbrushed, supermodel here, but a dull,boring cog….. in the Labor wheel .... to be the most colourless PM ever if elected.

    • Northern Steve says:

      01:57pm | 14/08/10

      There might be some woman voting for Gillard because she is a woman too, but there will also be some men doing the opposite.  I think Howard’s comment takes into account that people will vote for all sorts of reasons, including silly reasons, and that they will sort of cancel each other out.
      As to whether we ‘get it right this time’, guess we’ll know in a year or so.

    • Biteme says:

      10:11am | 14/08/10

      Interesting we got our first boat arrival in many many days last night. Interesting in the sense of reading the many comments about the lack of boats and the Navy being gagged. I still think we are not getting the full story.

    • The Badger says:

      11:56am | 14/08/10

      Boats are only an issue to racist scaremongers.

      Let us so live that when we come to die, even the undertaker will be sorry.
      Mark Twain

    • Gary says:

      12:15pm | 14/08/10

      Biteme, it was Howard who gagged the navy, maybe you remember ‘children overboard’?

    • Baz says:

      04:03pm | 14/08/10

      Boats are only not an issue to the culturally ignorant.

    • Carolynne says:

      10:40am | 14/08/10

      Good article David.

      Before the 2007 Election, as Editor of the Daily Telegraph, you threw your support behind Kevin Rudd.

      Do you believe now you made the right call?

    • One Eye says:

      10:55am | 14/08/10

      Has anyone noticed that Libs primary vote is still ahead of Labor’s?

    • fairsfair says:

      12:33pm | 14/08/10

      And I think that that is the biggest issue. Democracy does not involve one party getting into bed with another purely to deliberately skew votes into their own preferred direction (even though it has happened many times before - like the GST election) . The greens portray themselves to be all for their message - but they are just power hungry like the rest of them and squandered their ETS change (thank god) but their followers think they are toiling away. They get into bed with the ALP to mean that their (aspired for) balance of power in the senate (seats of which from the southern states) hold massive influence on the ENTIRE country. I am sorry - but this doesn’t add up for average Joe particularly in regional and northern Australia.

    • Northern Steve says:

      02:02pm | 14/08/10

      Libs primary vote is almost always ahead of Labor.  The left primary vote is split betwen Labor & Greens.  As a result, Labor needs to get to about 40% to win, Liberals to about 45%.
      Of the ~12% Greens vote, a bit over 9.5% will go to Labor.  If they sit under 40%, then they need preferences from other parties as well, which is why they did a deal with Family First last election.

    • Debbie says:

      04:39pm | 14/08/10

      When you say Libs do you actually mean the coalition between the conservative party and the agrarian socialist party ?

    • BobM says:

      07:01pm | 14/08/10

      Agree with you on the Greens issue, fairsfair. I just saw their ad - all young smiling gen y proclaiming that they’re voting Greens in the senate for a fairer government…blah, blah. If they think they can’t afford a house now, wait till they’ve had a few years of a Labor/Greens government. Should be good for a laugh watching them squeal - but they will have fast Internet access and that’s the most important thing, eh?

    • Rosie says:

      11:03am | 14/08/10

      Thanks David, great article!

      Rooty Hill RSL Forum was the best example of how the audience was able to show that it was all about the people and not about the two politicians who are in a contest to lead a party to govern our nation.

      If we had more forums like this there wouldn’t be so much confusion aided by the shenanigans of the Labor Party in this election campaign.

      Tony Jones of ABC’s Q&A on Monday night should take note because Tony Abbott will be appearing to take questions from his auidence.

      Kudos to David Speers who handled the forum extremely well.

    • Richard M says:

      11:13am | 14/08/10

      What a typical Punch piece, especially from Penberthy.  Only the most rabid anti-Labor sycophants would place any store by the rigged farce that occurred at Rooty Hill.  My main criticism would be of whoever advised Julia to involve herself in an event organised by the Sydney Telegraph (the tabloid voice of rabid anti-Labor) and Sky News, the Official Liberal Party Election Channel.  Ordinary uncommitted voters - what a joke!  Just like the chap who was a fully-fledged Young Liberal and the son of a Liberal MP.  Now that was a slip-up.  Do uncommitted voters give Abbott a cheering ovation even before he’s opened his mouth?  And what about the questions?  All that tough stuff for Julia, and Dorothy Dixers for Abbott.  The only problem for the organisers was that, like a poorly-fixed boxing match, it was just a little bit too obvious.  Those Liberal stooges should have been instructed to be a bit more subtle!  And, by the way, it wasn’t even effective, given that only 87,000 people actually watched it.  Most sensible voters turned off Sky early in the campaign.  Only the Liberal faithful, and masochists like me, are watching.
      Finally Penbo, the continued fawning over Howard is not only sickening, but just a bit passe - although I suppose you could call Abbott the poor man’s Howard, without the political nouse.  Howard’s gone, mate - let it go.

    • Gregg says:

      11:14am | 14/08/10

      Lets not forget the Broncos, Titans, Cowboys, Eagles and Dockers cheerleaders as well eh! but whilst I suspect views on elections may be a little different to what was for a republic referendum I feel your own views are a little askewed too Penbo, especially with
      ” The public is clearly still confused and offended by the fact that their elected prime minister, whether they liked him or not, was knocked off by the factions. And it’s elitist nonsense to say that this confusion stems from their misunderstanding of the parliamentary system – namely that in Australia it’s not the public which directly elects the prime minister but the Caucus or Party Room through the leadership ballot. Technically that is true, but Australians believe, understandably enough, that they went to the election in 2007 and voted for (or against) their local Labor candidate, they were by implication endorsing or rejecting Kevin Rudd as PM.

      The question on this issue to Julia Gillard at Wednesday’s debate gave her the most awkward moment of the night, and signalled the beginning of a fairly tense hour where she often sounded defensive. Tony Abbott’s ability to capitalise on the issue was undermined somewhat by the cuteness of his distinction about how it matters more that a PM such as Rudd gets knifed than a dime-a-dozen Opposition Leader such as Malcolm Turnbull. But despite his trademark circumlocution on the issue, it was still one he was happy to rabbit on about, and which Gillard was desperate to avoid. “

      I would not say the public at large are confused with Rudds demise and though some are offended, a lot of people will also see it for what it has been and that’s not just a power grab orchestrated by a select few against one who was not considered totally of their own ilk and also because they feared loss of governmental power which they paint as we cannot have Abbott undoing what we have done!!!
      That’s the ultimate assault to the senses ” undoing what we have done “
      as though that was a bad thing!

      There is also a very distinct difference between Rudd being knifed so and the Turnbull and Abbott competition for whereas the government had policies which Gillard was fully immersed with and which as much as she has tried to distance herself from still largely remain as was, Turnbull threw down the gauntlet in a very open and gallant way because of a policy he stood for and which Abbott and enough Liberals opposed.

      A huge huge difference that and one I am surprised you appear not to want to give definition to.

      The rest is history and ironically Labor now want to attempt to stand on their economic credentials!!
      Who do they think they are kidding and yes the people will give their decision, hopefully the correct one untainted by the deceit Labor are attempting to impose at the eleventh hour in desperation stakes.

      With their claims for economic management and the usual gutter advertising against Tony Abbott, they may indeed be underestimating the Australian public

    • stephen says:

      11:36am | 14/08/10

      Seein Rotty Hill again brought back memories when i was livin in the Cross.
      Same kinda pokies venues, ‘cept Rooty’s had holes in the roof.

    • S.L says:

      12:08pm | 14/08/10

      An employee of mine stood for office 2 elections ago on the Liberal ticket in a safe Labor seat. To his credit he got the seat back to marginal status until the next chump helped the sitting member make it safe Labor again. To say the “voters always get it right?” Well I don’t know about that! When asked what he would do if he won office all he could talk about was the lurks and perks…..........

    • dead to me says:

      12:15pm | 14/08/10

      Look at NSW Labor, a basketcase of a party, now look a Federal Labor and what they have done in the last 3 years. Labor are really the party that spends, spins and gets nothing done. Oh Gillard you can live with the guilt of what you did to Mr Rudd but we won’t let you get away with the level of incompetence you have showed this country.

    • nosthow says:

      12:40pm | 14/08/10

      As the most recent Neilson poll shows Labor 53% and a fading Coalition at 47% - goodbye Tont Abbott !

    • Sam says:

      12:45pm | 14/08/10

      “some years ago Howard told a dinner for a bunch of us from The Daily Telegraph, all of whom were sagely opining that Australia was set to become a republic at the then-looming referendum, that we were all 100 per cent wrong and that Australia would be voting no. His reasoning was based on a voxpop in that day’s Tele of the Parramatta Eels cheerleaders, a majority of whom were opposed to the constitutional change because they didn’t understand the model, thought it gave too much power to politicians, or would cost too much. Howard said at the time: “If the Parramatta Eels cheerleaders are voting no to the republic Australia is voting no to the republic.”


      If you remember, it was howard who corrupted that vote by dictating the model that was voted on. Alternate models probaply would have been far more acceptable.

      The libbers have always majored in manipulation, by ‘whatever it takes’.
      Just a few examples, ‘children overboard’, constant chanting of ‘great big new tax’  from the moment Abbott knifed Turnbull,assorted attacks on one’s sexuality, like that poor dude from NSW., or even lack of religion, hair colour, ear lobes, being a woman.  I repeat, whatever it takes.

    • Northern Steve says:

      05:48pm | 14/08/10

      The Republican Model came out of a people’s assembly.  Do you think it was manipulated? 
      At least Labor would never use a shonky system like that.  Or use a constant chant (cough - Moving Forward - cough), or knife a leader, or pick on someone’s religion or clothing (Abbott being a Jesuit, budgie smugglers)

      Oh, hang on!  THEY DID!

      Woops Sam.  Maybe you need to think before you rant.

    • Reg. says:

      12:12pm | 15/08/10

      So Sam, reading between the lines, you’re suggesting that the model presented for the Referendum was a beat-up between Howard and Turnbull to ensure it wouldn’t succeed?  I’d wondered about that and when Turnbull hit the big time in the Liberal Party it became a bit clearer. The Abbott is merely a spacer to lend a bit of respectability for a bigger match pending.

    • Eric says:

      12:46pm | 14/08/10

      I should also point out that us political tragics - journos, politicians, staffers and commenters - are totally untypical of the community at large.

      Most people spend about five minutes a week thinking about politics. The members of the above-named classes, of which I am one, think about politics 24/7.

      So we have to accept that our viewpoints may well be far away from what the punters thing. And, I would add, the punters need to be respected - not dismissed as ignorant bigots or whatever. The punters are, after all, the people who build and run everything that makes our society possible.

    • Gerard says:

      03:00pm | 14/08/10

      “it’s elitist nonsense to say that this confusion stems from their misunderstanding of the parliamentary system – namely that in Australia it’s not the public which directly elects the prime minister but the Caucus or Party Room through the leadership ballot.”

      And why is it elitist nonsense? Because it’s far easier for the media to report on a two-horse race with the participants (Conroy) handing out cash for favourable coverage?

      The leadership takeover should be a non-issue for anyone who voted Labor. Who put Rudd’s betrayers in power? Voters knowingly elected self-interested, power-obsessed representatives with no integrity. Why would they would be surprised when those representatives shafted their leader?

    • Rod Hagen says:

      03:08pm | 14/08/10

      One Eye, if you take a closer look , you will see that it is not actually the Libs who have a “primary” lead over Labor.  It actually takes two different parties, the combined Libs and the Nationals, do achieve that!

    • Sodapoppy says:

      04:21pm | 14/08/10

      Oh yes, and the Labor/Union Party is a single party!  And they are funded by compulsory fees paid whether or not the stupid members vote for another Party. It’s a Party developed to give a Career path to Union hacks, rather than get a job.

    • Northern Steve says:

      01:06am | 15/08/10

      Not a particularly enlightening coment there, Rod.  Lib and Nats don’t compete for votes, as they don’t run in the same seats.  On top of that, in Qld they’re called the LNP and in NT the CLP.  But till, their vote is an aggregate because it will be the sum of their votes across all seats - preferences won’t come into it.
      Now, you know all that, so stop trying to put irrelevant non-facts into this debate.

    • Housewife49 says:

      05:25pm | 15/08/10

      Don’t run in the same seats? Who do you think you are trying to kid! Or don’t you ever pay attention? Aus electoral history is littered with them, even three-cornered contests.

      Goodness me. Really.

    • Rod Hagen says:

      02:26pm | 16/08/10

      Sorry Northern Steve, but you should take a look at who is standing in this election in Richmond, NSW, for example. Or Riverina? Libs and Nats still play this game.

      The Nats may well have already been reduced to a rump of their former glory, with only six seats in parliament, but that doesn’t mean that Libs and Nats don’t sometimes “compete” against each other to try to maximise preference flows.

    • Housewife49 says:

      07:55am | 17/08/10

      I suppose we’re expected to forget that dirty little war between the Liberals and Nationals in Queensland, too.  On and on they went!

    • dead to me says:

      07:18pm | 14/08/10

      I find it interesting that no one has mentioned how this is such a close election. I mean one would think that if Labor had done such a fantastic job in the last 3 years and if they had done lots to be proud of, they should be mopping the floor with Tony in terms of poll numbers. This alone speaks volumes, that Gillard and co have done the usually expected bad Labor job and now even someone like Abbott is giving them a run for their money. Australia needs to vote her out and send a message that even first term governments who don’t perform will be out. We have to scare them into doing a good job instead of voting them in so they can take it easy and spend their way silly with our tax payer monies.

    • AA says:

      08:31pm | 14/08/10

      This shouldn’t be attributed to Howard, a quick search would even show Howard saying it was ‘as Bob Hawke used to say”...  God journos are useless and have the same sense of history as a goldfish.

      I know you will read this. I also know you won’t put it up which makes you dishonest.

    • Win Fowles says:

      08:45pm | 14/08/10

      You are right to say most voters have a more critical eye than journos. A sleeper issue ignored by most journos this election is indexation reform for military superannuation pensioners. It affects some 64,000 former service men & women, and widows, who receive a mil super pension averaging about $23,000 (median is less than $20,000) compared with a couple’s Age pension of about $28,000. It will also affect serving ADF men and women when they eventually retire.

      ADF people compulsorily paid 5 to 5.5% of their pre-tax pay for the privilege of a small super pension. And they pay income tax (less 10%) on their super pension regardless of age. And Defence widows receive 63% (rounded) of their deceased husband’s super pension while MP widows receive 83%.

      But the killer is indexation. Military super pensions are still indexed to CPI, abandoned in 1997 as the sole indexation measure for Age pensions because it is not a measure of the cost of living, so does not protect pension purchasing power.

      That’s why the Age pension, rightly, rose 130% over the last 20 years but mil super pensions rose just 70%. This is not a misprint.

      Meanwhile, pre-2004 MP super pensions rose a whopping 140% and are set to shoot much higher when allowances are rolled into salary post-election, because these MP pensions are indexed to MP salaries.

      The Coalition ignored military indexation reform during its dozen years in power. Labor in 2007 as good as said it would fix it but reneged when in power after securing a good slice of the 2007 mil super pensioner vote. Now the Coalition says it will partially fix the problem if we vote for them this time, while Labor through Mr Swan tells us to forget it - for wildly exaggerated reasons that any objective commentator would reject.

      Indexation reform is a huge issue for tens of thousands of serving and former service men & women, and for those they too often leave behind. And many non-service voters are sympathetic - even the bloke who repaired my car tyres today knew about it from a mate and he has never served in the ADF in his life. My extended family and my friends think it stinks too. I doubt they are alone.

      What a voting bloc. What an issue. Yet most journos don’t want to know. Go figure.

      (Disclosure: I’m a DFRDB pensioner so have a vested interest. But the pros and cons of indexation reform are in the public arena for any journo who chooses to investigate this appalling injustice - which is relatively cheap to fix despite Mr Swan’s confected outrage yesterday. Labor is giving $25m this year to help Taliban turncoats see the light in Afghanistan. That’s good. But the same $25m would fund nearly two years fair indexation for retired Australian service men and women. Is there a journo out there somewhere?)

    • Michael says:

      09:19pm | 14/08/10

      Fascinating, David, that in your describing of the alternative Prime Minister talking with everyday people, the colloquial verb you came up with was “rabbit on”. Personally, I don’t want a leader of this country who ‘rabbits on’.

      I doubt even a Parramatta Eels cheerleader would.

    • Marilyn Shepherd says:

      02:20am | 15/08/10

      They might be a few boats but they have human beings on them.  Gillard actually said this in her speech:

      We should also understand that what drives the peaks and troughs in the
      numbers of boats trying to get to Australia has less to do with what we do
      here and more to do with the conditions people are escaping - conditions like
      war, genocide, imprisonment without trial, torture, harassment by authorities,
      the disappearance of family and friends, and children growing up in refugee
      camps with no prospect of ever again seeing their home.
      And when conditions deteriorate in countries with sea routes to Australia, as
      they did between 1999 and 2001, more boats come – some 5,516 people
      came to our shores in 2001. But then when conditions improved as happened
      after 2001 with the downfall of the Taliban regime fewer and fewer boats
      arrived.”

      Then she went on to say “we must stop them”, just like Australia did in 1938 when we said to the world about jewish refugees fleeing nazism “as we don’t have a racial problem we are not desirous of importing one”.

      Gillard doesn’t have a clue and never did.

      What I don’t get is why some people whine so incessantly.

      The customs people actually greet about 10% of all sea borne vessels to Australia every year - 6450 in all, with over 800,000 mariners on them.

      Why the hell do so many have to whine about less than 7,000 refugees in three years who have committed no crime and just want and are entitled to our help without being illegally shunted off to Nauru or East Timor, I reckon we can help both countries without jailing innocent people in their countries.

      Don’t any of you ever think critically?  Gillard says the other country must have signed the refugee convention, but we have signed the convention and put it into domestic law and we ignore it.

    • Discriminator says:

      09:59am | 15/08/10

      The UNHCR Convention must be reviewed along with the blackmailing 19067 Protocol which does not allow any signatory country to discriiminate as to who they accept.  It is time Australia had more say as to what type of refugees they accept and how they arrive.

    • hot tub political machine says:

      04:56pm | 15/08/10

      I with you on this one Penbo - Aussies are very astute voters. Pity the major parties think we are all racist bogans susceptible to fear tactics and bribes

 

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