Many of us wouldn’t know about the Right to Silence - a good thing. It’s only when you experience a criminal trial, either as the victim or the accused, that you will be exposed to this part of our justice system which provides the accused with, amongst other things, the right to not take the stand throughout their trial.


It’s a shock for most victims, who by the way, are not afforded this luxury, as they enter the courtroom seeking answers which often will not come.

More than 750,000 matters are initiated within the court system each year, with the vast majority (85%) resulting in guilty pleas and immediate sentencing.  But there are some crimes that have spectacularly low plead rates, and arguably are those cases where victims are most vulnerable. 

Victims of violent crime can wait years for the criminal trial against their accused to be heard before a jury in either the District or Supreme Court.  If they are lucky, they would be armed with accurate information and support about what’s to come, but for many victims they enter the courtroom with an extremely lay understanding of proceedings, and certainly no clarity around their rights and obligations within court.

Most victims views will be influenced through pop culture, particularly an Americanised version of justice through shows such as Law and Order, and NCIS.  They will head into court frightened, anxious, overwhelmed and importantly, expecting justice – and most will exit feeling that the latter need was not met.

Victims of violent crime will often fall into two categories, the primary victim or the person who was victimised, and secondary victims who are affected by the violence but not personally injured, for example the surviving members of a family where a loved one has been murdered.

Most primary, and at times secondary victims will be expected to take the witness stand and recount their version of events. They will be afforded little protection from the defence, be compelled to answer difficult questions, including divulging details of what may feel like irrelevant lines of questioning into their personal lives. 

Victims of rape are commonly questioned around their sexuality and/or behaviour on the night of the alleged crime.

What they were wearing will come into question, whether they were intoxicated, and their behaviour will all be exposed and considered by twelve strangers who now make up the silent jury responsible for determining guilt.

Whilst many jurisdictions have introduced systems to minimise the trauma upon victims having to recount their evidence, many courts will still require victims to take the stand, sit before the accused, the media, 12 strangers on the jury and the judge and retell their story.

Victims are an integral part of the criminal justice system, whose participation in the trial process is motivated by deeply individual factors. For some it’s the opportunity to be heard, whilst others believe in the pursuit of justice overall and the opportunity to have a violent offender prevented (through incarceration) from harming others.

Homicide trials can be unique, as the primary victim is deceased and therefore it falls upon the surviving family to represent them in court. Over the years I have supported hundreds of families through homicide trials, and certainly an overriding factor of wanting to attend the criminal trial is the opportunity to learn firsthand what actually occurred on the night their loved one drew their final breath.

Often the surviving family have been told only basic facts surrounding their case, and their attendance at court is motivated through a mixture of wanting to learn the truth, wanting to represent their loved one, and wanting to remind the accused that they won’t forget what the accused has done to their family.

Family members are often shocked to learn that the accused won’t be taking the stand, that their right to silence protects them from ever having to account for their actions personally. Instead, a well-paid, well-dressed and experienced defence team will be representing them.

Whilst other witnesses are not afforded this option, the main cause of the trial – the accused – will be. It is their choice around whether or not they take the stand, and this decision can be made at any stage throughout the trial.

All other witnesses are prohibited from entering the court and hearing other testimony until they have provided theirs.  I have sat with victim-witnesses who have sat outside courtrooms for days, waiting to be called so they can then join their family inside the public gallery and hear the evidence, only to be notified on the last day they now will not be called (in fact I was one of those witnesses myself). 

The accused however is exempt from this prohibition. Again I have sat in on homicide cases, through days of testimony, only on the final day to learn that the accused has now decided to take the stand. 

Unlike other witnesses who have had to make a statement on day one and stick closely to this (or risk being labelled an unreliable witness) the accused has not had to make a statement at any point, and can now, on the final day of trial, take the stand and provide a story which neatly fits around everyone else’s testimony.

The Right to Silence is a common law principle enshrined in Australia’s justice system. 

One of the explanations I have been given as to why we shouldn’t interfere with this practice, is that removal of the right to silence would place the accused in a position of either refusing to answer (and potential contempt of court), lying to the court (potentially perjury) or being truthful (and potentially incriminating themselves). 

Its an astonishing response from a sector conditioned to focus on the rules of the game rather than the pursuit of justice.  I have always considered trials should be about truth-seeking, and I don’t think I am the minority.

The New South Wales Premier Barry O’Farrell has recently announced his intention to reform this right, introducing the element that whilst the accused has the right to remain silent, it may harm their defence if they refuse to answer something when questioned, which they later rely on in court.

It has been met with predictable protestations from the bar and bench, however the forgotten element in these conversations are the effects which this principle has upon victims. Whilst no victim nor victim’s advocate would promote the erosion of offender’s genuine and necessary rights to a fair trial, many of us would suggest that reforms to this area of law are long overdue. 

The impact of the criminal trial process – or procedural justice – upon a victim is long-felt.  Most victims would say they can accept a not-guilty verdict when and if the jury has heard all the evidence.  But to expect a jury to make a determination of guilt (and potential life sentence) upon someone without hearing their testimony is to me, a second-rate system of law.

Jonty Bush received the Young Australian of the Year award in 2009 for her work in the field of victim support has worked with victims of violence since the murder of her sister and father in 2000.

Comments on this post close at 8pm AEST.

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    • Mahhrat says:

      06:43am | 24/08/12

      I don’t understand.  Are you suggesting that the maxim of innocent until proven guilty should not longer apply?

      In no way should I be required to provide testimony that could be used to incriminate me, because - and you point this out yourself - an experienced and knowledgeable lawyer can ask questions in such a way as to obfuscate the truth.

      The victim is seeking justice, yes - but the verb is the clincher.  THEY are seeking justice.  The respondent is not - and may not have anything to answer but a vexatious or otherwise false claim.

      Does it suck?  Yes, it does.  Is it necessary to sit through?  Yes, it is, exactly because the defendant MUST have all the legal advantages until they are proven guilty of a crime.

      It is better that a person goes free than a person be unjustly imprisoned.  The improper denial of liberty is one of the greatest travesties we can inflict upon a person, yet that is what you risk.

      Besides, if you force a testimony, all you’re going to get is a flat denial, even if they did the thing!  I love what you’re trying to do, but you need to change the adversarial nature of court itself before you’ll get what you need.

    • Sickemrex says:

      07:35am | 24/08/12

      The NSW change still means the suspect can A) remain silent, B) tell the truth, or C) make up a load of bullshit.  Their options when being questioned remain the same.  It just means that they are going to look dodgy in Court later on when they make up some alibi which the prosecution aren’t able to rebut.  Boo friggin hoo.

    • acotrel says:

      07:42am | 24/08/12

      ‘It is better that a person goes free than a person be unjustly imprisoned. ‘

      Colin Ross ?

    • Mahhrat says:

      08:30am | 24/08/12

      @Sickem, I agree with you, but that is what caused my confusion.  The OP came across as wanting people to be forced to answer a question.  You should never, ever have to do that. 

      You can certainly be judged on your refusal to answer - that’s no problem at all - but you must retain the right to remain silent.

    • Tubesteak says:

      10:30am | 24/08/12

      The whole point of our criminal system (and even our civil system) is that the accuser must make their case. They must prove what they are trying to allege.

      You cannot prove a negative. You can only prove a positive.

      In the criminal system it is the Crown that is the accuser and trying to prove the case against the accused. It is up to them to prove everything. Not the accused to hand it to them. This is the principle of innocent until proven guilty.

      Operative word being “proven”. Not accused of being guilty.

    • Markus says:

      10:50am | 24/08/12

      @Mahhrat, if silence becomes considered legally acceptable as evidence of guilt, the right to remain silent is just as worthless as if you were legally forced to answer a question.

    • Ben says:

      10:53am | 24/08/12

      @ Tubesteak “You cannot prove a negative. You can only prove a positive.”

      I can’t prove I’m not dead?

    • Mahhrat says:

      11:20am | 24/08/12

      @Markus - I agree, though I would suggest that if I’m answered a simple question and refuse to answer, juries the world over will consider that.

    • Al says:

      11:25am | 24/08/12

      Ben - You can’t prove you are not dead because parts of you are.
      Technicly you are partly alive and partly dead ALL the time.

    • Markus says:

      11:32am | 24/08/12

      @Ben, only by providing evidence that you are alive, which is a positive.

    • Tubesteak says:

      01:48pm | 24/08/12

      Ben
      Prove to me Descartes’ evil demon theory is incorrect.

      Don’t bother. You can’t. You cannot prove that you are not controlled by someone because I can simply say “that is what they would control you to say”.

      You can only prove a positive.

    • Movin On says:

      02:57pm | 24/08/12

      + 1
      Sadly, many people do not understand the right to be innocent until proven guilty…...

    • Barry says:

      06:57am | 24/08/12

      Well… this is the “Legal Industry” we are talking about! 

      This industry shrouds the pursuit of “buckets of money” in legal mumbo-jumbo and antiquated processes, that everybody (including many practitioners) find impenetrable. 

      Justice… you will NOT get justice in the justice system ...you will get a decision.  But these decisions usually help very few people, EXCEPT those that make “buckets of money” from it.

      OK, that’s my rant over. 
      But more seriously, there is a bigger matter in criminal cases (certainly in Victoria). The prosecution cannot cross examine witnesses.  Yes, they can ask questions, but if a “defendant friendly” witness says “I cant remember” or gives some other sleazy answer, the prosecution cannot go after them.  If a witness for the prosecution takes the stand, the defence barrister can go for the throat.  They can hammer them with questions, call them liars and charlatans, question their motives and honesty, and generally reduce the witness to a blubbering wreck.  Its not unusual for the defence to keep a “hostile witness” in the stand for days on end, with trivial questions and inane accusations, all with the goal of softening them up, then hit them with a killer question, whose ‘blurry’ answer from a defeated, deflated, intimidated witness then generates a sliver of doubt for the jury.  In contrast, the prosecution will be sanctioned, rebuffed and cautioned continuously, if for the sake of clarity, they so much as ask the same question twice.
      Combine this with the right to silence, and the services of a highly paid ‘silver tongued’ barrister, and the murderer has the SCALES of justice firmly pushed down onto their side.
      JUSTICE…. NO way.

    • Barry says:

      07:06am | 24/08/12

      Seriously, there is a bigger matter in criminal cases (certainly in Victoria). The prosecution cannot cross examine witnesses.  Yes, they can ask questions, but if a “defendant friendly” witness says “I cant remember” or gives some other sleazy answer, the prosecution cannot go after them.  If a witness for the prosecution takes the stand, the defence barrister can go for the throat.  They can hammer them with questions, call them liars and charlatans, question their motives and honesty, and generally reduce the witness to a blubbering wreck.  Its not unusual for the defence to keep a “hostile witness” in the stand for days on end, with trivial questions and inane accusations, all with the goal of softening them up, then hit them with a killer question, whose ‘blurry’ answer from a defeated, deflated, intimidated witness then generates a sliver of doubt for the jury.  In contrast, the prosecution will be sanctioned, rebuffed and cautioned continuously, if for the sake of clarity, they so much as ask the same question twice.
      Combine this with the right to silence, and the services of a highly paid ‘silver tongued’ barrister, and the murderer has the SCALES of justice firmly pushed down onto their side.
      JUSTICE…. NO way.

    • Nilbog says:

      07:49am | 24/08/12

      What the hell are you talking about?

      Prosecution can’t cross examine witnesses? Well of course they can’t if the call the witness, as the prosecution leads them through their evidence in chief. Defence counsel gets to cross examine, and the prosecition re-examines. The re-examination is where the prosecution can clarify things from the cross examination.

      Its the opposite for defence called witnesses.

      Why would the prosecution call a “defence friendly” witness?

    • Scuba says:

      08:09am | 24/08/12

      This is a serious enough topic without people spreading this sort of rubbish.  There are no different rules for prosecution and defence witnesses (there is in fact no such thing as a “prosecution” or “defence” witness despite what the Law & Order generation might think - there is no “property” in a witness). 

      Any witness can be declared hostile (or, in Victoria, the lesser test of “unfavourable” which may be the root of what Barry is talking about but does not have the effect he states).

    • Barry says:

      09:06am | 24/08/12

      Nilborg, You must be in the legal industry, as this is exactly how they turn things around to suit their own position.  This article, and my reply, was all about the DEFNDENT and their position.  So you then turn it around by saying… ”  Why would the prosecution call a “defence friendly” witness?”  Thats not what I said.
      If the defence calls an eye witness to a murder, and the witness decides to…  forget the facts, or in some other way evade the question from the prosecution, then thats it.  No way can the prosecuter badger or ‘pursue’ the “defence friendly” witness.  The Judge will jump all over the prosecuter. 
      On the other hand, the defence barrister can do almost anything they want to any witness, nothing is out of bounds.

    • Nilbog says:

      10:29am | 24/08/12

      Barry

      I appreciate where you are coming from, but prosecutors can, and often do, apply to the presiding judge to have a witness they called hostile, as Scuba correctly pointed out.

      Scuba just didn’t follow on from that to explain that the effect of being declared hostile allows whoever is question the witness at the time as evidence in chief, to then move to questioning like a cross examination.

      How you can question depends on whether it is cross examination or not. You cannot ask leading questions in evidence in chief, you can in cross.

      A common example is this:

      Prosecutor calls witness. Witness gives different account in court than a police statement. Prosecutor successfully applies to have witness declared hostile. Prosecutor can then cross examine its own witness.

    • LegalEagle says:

      01:43pm | 24/08/12

      @Nilbog, The prosecution are under an obligation to call all of their witnesses, regardless of whether they are friendly to their case, or have sided with the defendant. This is Rule 88 of the NSW Barrister’s Rules as at 8th August 2011. We also have witnesses declared unfavourable rather than hostile pursuant to section 38 of the Evidence Act 1995 (NSW)

      @Barry, you might want to rethink your statement regarding the defence counsel’s ability to ‘go for the throat’. Section 104 of the Evidence Act 1995 (NSW) allows for the accused to be cross-examined by the prosecution if this is a tactic. However, the prosecution must seek leave under section 192. Alternatively, the defence counsel can seek an advanced ruling under 192A in order to find out if the judge would order this if they were to engage in this type of cross-examination. And Victoria is covered under the Uniform Evidence law, just like NSW.

      The civil courts already have a similar rule from Jones v Dunkel - that if a witness isn’t called for the case, then it can be presumed that they would not help the case at hand. For this to be applied in the criminal jurisdiction, it would effectively take away the accused’s right to be silent, and it can impinge on the ability of the defence to hold the prosecution to strict proof (which is done in some cases…)

    • iansand says:

      07:32am | 24/08/12

      Very few witnesses are facing imprisonment.

    • Dan says:

      02:28pm | 24/08/12

      No just threats of murder, rape, infanticide….

    • iansand says:

      03:32pm | 24/08/12

      I have known some pretty ugly prosecutors in my time, but none of them are that bad.

    • T-rev says:

      07:32am | 24/08/12

      Wow… talk about a naive article.

      I appreciate the author works, somewhat indirectly, in the justice system, and is entitled to an opinion, but there are good reasons the system is the way it is, and has been developed by legal minds a lot sharper than hers.

      Not to state the obvious, but here are a few fairly simple counterpoints to those put forth by the author.

      1. Other than the accused, all witnesses have to stay out of the court room until after giving evidence as it prevents people from changing their eividence to match some other witness’ evidence given before them. It is also why witnesses are not allowed to talk to other potential witnesses after giving evidence.

      2. The accused is required to remain in the dock at all times during a trial, therefore must be in the court room. Also, as the accused is the one on trial, he needs to be able to give instructions to his representation during the trial about anything he would like put to witnesses whilst they give evidence. How can he/she instruct his/her lawyers if they are sitting outside?

      3. Victims HAVE to give evidence, and in the court room, unless the court grants it via video link in certain circumstances. Why? Because the victim is the person making the serious allegations, ones that could send someone to jail for most of the accused’s life in some cases, and need to be cross-examined about their allegations. To suggest that there has never been false allegations made against people that get all the way to trial is naive.

      The right to silence is a simple concept. An accused doesn’t have to give evidence, and the refusal to give evidence cannot be taken by a jury as a sign of guilt.

      If the prosecution have a strong enough case, whether the accused gives evidence probably won’t matter.

      The onus is on the prosecution to prove the allegations. The accused doesn’t need to assist by giving evidence, or even calling any witnesses of its own.

      Even for an accused who is innocent, giving evidence is a nervous, stressful experience, as their freedom is on the line.

      To people most inexperienced witnessing trials, being the 12 jurors sitting in the court who determine whether the accused is guilty or not, seeing someone as “nervous” may lead them to think he has something to hide and thus “guilty”.

      The will usually act on the advice of lawyers and barristers who may advise them, for any number of reasons that do not include “because you are guilty”, to not take the stand.

      The system is sometimes not fair, but their are rights we bestow on every person who is accused of a crime.

      If you were accused of a crime, you would expect the same rights to be afforded to you too.

      End rant smile

    • Tim says:

      08:17am | 24/08/12

      I think the article is more to do with the proposed changes in NSW where if an accused initially doesn’t answer questions but then presents an alibi in court (after they’ve had plenty of time to think of it) which answers those questions, it can be looked on negatively.

    • marley says:

      09:42am | 24/08/12

      @T-Rev - the author may be naive, but legal minds that are at least as sharp as hers or yours have in fact implemented precisely such an approach as she advocates in a little place called the UK, where the right to silence was notably restricted by a change in the relevant legislation almost 20 years ago. 

      Like it or not, the UK’s Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 allows a court to draw inferences from an accused person’s refusal to answer questions either when questioned under caution, when charged, or at the trial itself.  If, for example, the accused fails to account for his possession of certain items, or for his presence in a place where a crime was committed, the court can allow inferences to be drawn about his silence. 

      The British legislation was tested in the European courts, which determined that the right to silence is not, after all, absolute, but more of a balancing act between the right to silence and the right of the court to draw inferences from that silence.  To quote a paper on the subject, “Particular caution is required before an adverse inference can be drawn, but in a situation when an explanation is clearly called for from the defendant, then his silence will be relevant in assessing the persuasiveness of the evidence adduced by the prosecution. “

      Source:  http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/a_to_c/adverse_inferences/

      It’s my understanding that the NSW legislation would in fact mirror the British legislation.

    • T-rev says:

      10:44am | 24/08/12

      @ Marley

      I appreciate the UK has adopted this position in its legislation, and if used with caution (I suspect that there are instances where people remain silent due to a wide range of reasons other than guilt), then it may work.

      It is a very fine balancing act, because it is not the court drawing inferences, it is the jury. When the jury can consider some silences as inferences of guilt and not others, it creates potential for incorrect verdicts.

      The author’s article questioned a lot of other procedural issues with the court system which have very simple explanations - like why the accused is allowed to remain in court for the entire trial when witnesses cannot.

      Those were my main gripe.

    • Markus says:

      11:00am | 24/08/12

      @marley, from what I have read the NSW government do not have the same checks and balances as the UK in place to ensure a person’s individual rights are not infringed by this process, and as yet there has been no mention of actually implementing these to go along with the change.

      I’ve really struggled to find more details on this, but I would hardly be surprised that the intention is only to implement the parts that suit their aim.

    • Scuba says:

      11:02am | 24/08/12

      Marley, I’m not across the NSW stuff, but I don’t think it goes as far as the UK position.  If this article reflects the proposed NSW position correctly, then an adverse inference is only to be drawn where a question is put to the accused prior to trial and the accused does not answer, and the same question is put to the accused at trial and the accused answers it - the adverse inference being that they’ve “made the answer up” since the initial questioning (as Tim said above).

      The UK position goes quite a bit further and allows adverse inferences to be drawn in some cases where the accused maintains silence throughout.

    • marley says:

      12:39pm | 24/08/12

      I’m obviously no lawyer, and have no idea whether the NSW proposal goes further than the UK legislation, or is more restrained, or simply parallels it.  My point really was that the “right to silence” is not as absolute or as immutable as some of the comments here suggest.  I think that’s what makes the issue interesting.

    • iansand says:

      01:17pm | 24/08/12

      marley - Of course it is not “immutable or absolute”.  It can always be taken away.  That does not mean that removal is a good thing.

      FWIW, the UK has two things going for it.  The EEC bill of rights thingy still offers some protection, protection that does not exist in NSW.  The other is that there is a solicitor on duty or available in every UK police station.  Again, something absent in NSW.

    • marley says:

      02:01pm | 24/08/12

      @iansand - I know that the right to silence is neither absolute nor immutable.  Some of the comments, however, seem to suggest it is or ought to be.  Fact is, there is a genuine issue about the extent to which we should have a right to silence, and I think it’s one worthy of discussion.  That’s all I’m saying.

      As for NSW, the only things I’ve read suggest that their legislation will be more limited than the British legislation, and will merely allow the jury to draw an adverse inference if the accused comes up with an explanation and/or defence at the trial which he failed to provide to the police.  The British legislation goes quite a bit further than that.

    • St. Michael says:

      02:45pm | 24/08/12

      @ marley: protip, it’s usually the “more limited”—i.e. badly-thought-out and with a width of potential abuse in inverse proportions to its included protections—legislation that causes the greatest injustices.  And in Australia we tend to do that a lot, only changing our minds when enough people have died or have lost decades of their lives wrongly convicted.

    • marley says:

      03:12pm | 24/08/12

      @St. Michael - don’t get me wrong.  I’m not at all sure about the details of what NSW is proposing nor do I necessarily agree with it.  I suppose, though, that if it’s drafted along the lines of the British law, we would have some indication of how it would work in real life.  But I’m all too aware that legislation sloppily worded can have entirely unexpected consequences.  I would merely hope that NSW would model whatever it does reasonably closely on the British experience.

    • Jonty Bush says:

      05:20pm | 24/08/12

      Thanks T-rev for the comment.

      Firstly, simply because I work with victims in the justice system, does not mean I work indirectly in the justice system.  Much like I cannot imagine telling a victim of a violent crime they are an indirect product of the system.

      The opinion I have offered is exactly that, a strongly worded opinion piece aimed at generating a healthy conversation around the topic.  The opinion is shaped through thousands of hours in court, observing first hand the affects of criminal trials upon the victims.

      I am well aware of the points you have made as being justifications, however I find the ‘do as I say and not as I do’ style between approaches to defendant vs victim rights fascinating.  For example, whilst many note that victims may corroborate (and this is the reason for not allowing them into the courtroom), its overlooked that the offender can do the same if exposed to a trial’s worth of evidence. 

      My opinion is that if you are charged with a serious and violent crime, one that has broader ramifications than yourself, i.e the victim, their family and the community at large, than I believe you owe it to those persons to offer some form of statement.  If the person is innocent, there should be nothing to fear, as you know the system is built upon the presumption of innocence and if we lead with this foot then only a series of damning evidence should sway a jurors decision from that.

      And yes you’re right, if I were accused of a violent crime I would want natural protections from being unjustly convicted, however I would expect to be required to offer an explanation before a jury.  Perhaps it was my upbringing, but honesty and upfrontedness has been engrained into me smile

    • St. Michael says:

      06:53pm | 24/08/12

      @ Jonty:

      “If the person is innocent, there should be nothing to fear…”

      Oh dear.  You were doing so well until you said that.

    • Bernd Wechner says:

      08:39am | 24/08/12

      I take the point, and agree fully that the accuser’s trauma and difficulty should be minimised in the court process. Removing the accused’s right to silence however is not one of them.

      My reasoning is simple. I am experienced with a broad range of presentation skill and charisma’s. Whether you like it or not some people will present very well, have confidence and stand strong in the line of a prosecutor’s felt trained tongue and legal and emotionally manipulative machinations. Others will not. Guilt however is unrelated to this personality trait, but the judgement of guilt is strongly related to it I suspect.

      The minute someone with the wrong accent, poor elocution and poor vocabulary takes the stand to a jury and even a judge they can radiate an implicit guilt and such people are to this day prosecuted very successfully in places like the United States, notably by virtue of being black, poor and poorly educated, at a much greater rate that charismatic white men say.

      If anything I would be advocating the depersonalisation of the whole process, supporting the right of the accuser similarly to provide testimony in written form, or by proxy (through their legal representative) and decline to take the stand.

      Alas they are a key witness and at present it seems witnesses are not afforded this privilege either? Or are they?

      What I suspect the judiciary needs is the maturity to admit that the dynamics of verbal interactions influence the outcomes of court in ways unrelated to justice and strongly related to presentation. And once it does, it follows quickly that any witness or participant should be in control of their presentation, be it verbal, written, by proxy or otherwise.

      Alas, in the end the victim of violence remains the star witness and also one of the most interested parties in a successful prosecution and hence can hardly avoid making a case, laying testimony and witness to what happened. But I would openly support their right to do it in the least confronting, frightening and most empowering way for them and to have the same rights in that regard as the accused.

      This I would prefer, to eroding the rights of the accused.

    • Tel says:

      08:43am | 24/08/12

      Victims must talk??????? I though anyone could decline to answer a question? Might not do much for the advancement of your cause, but the option is there.

    • Markus says:

      11:12am | 24/08/12

      Surprised this had not come up yet.
      I was under the impression that nobody forced the victim to take the stand, just that most prosecutors will elect to do so to further their case.

      It seems logical that the defence get a chance to also question a witness who has elected to take the stand, to ensure that they have not just told the part of the story that suits their case.

    • iansand says:

      12:07pm | 24/08/12

      Once you are in the box you are required to answer (with a few outs, such as the right not to incriminate yourself).

    • Bitten says:

      08:53am | 24/08/12

      Jonty, not the best piece you have written. The right to silence is a well-founded principle of longstanding based on the premise that the onus is, quite rightly, on the State (DPP) to make it’s case against any person whom it charges with a crime and seeks to punish. The onus is not on the citizens to prove their innocence beyond a reasonable doubt. This is not a police state.

      This will lead to guilty persons going free on occasion. That is the bargain we make: that it is better to let 10 guilty go free than to imprison one innocent.

      People think that innocent people don’t ever get arrested and charged with crimes of violence. The Innocence Project would beg to differ.

    • Jonty Bush says:

      05:25pm | 24/08/12

      Thanks Bitten, yes I knew when writing it would be controversial.  I appreciate and understand your comments, but surely there has to be some in the middle ground that can be sought.  The frustration upon victims who deserve an explanation and participate willingly albeit reluctantly throughtout is exacerbated to learn of this right extended only to the accused. 

      I guess the same frustration that we as a society feel when someone convicted of murder refuses to disclose where the body is for burial sake, victims feel that same anguish when someone who, certainly on the police’s part feel there is something to answer for, remain silent.

    • St. Michael says:

      06:58pm | 24/08/12

      Again, Jonty, you keep forgetting something that years of watching criminal trials and presumably years of judges’ and lawyers’ addresses to juries should have taught you: the person is not on trial, the accusation against them is.  The person on trial is presumed innocent.  Only the most twisted logic turns that into “if you’re presumed innocent, you have to speak to justify that presumption.”

      Alternatively, if you really want to hear explanations, perhaps you should consider hooking up with the coroner’s court, which is about finding the truth of what happened.

    • Inky says:

      08:55am | 24/08/12

      Yeah, the criminal justice system should be more like the workplace, where you can make up whatever you want about someone as a complaint, and as long as the people in charge like you more than them, you’ll win.

    • wearestardust says:

      08:56am | 24/08/12

      This is the real world, not TV.  Quite so.  In the real world, we don’t have the advantage of knowing that that the accused is guilty because the writer has put them in the dock or perhaps we’ve even seen them commit the offence earlier in the program.

      Adjusting the rights of the accused will not improve the lot of the victim in the court.

    • wearestardust says:

      08:57am | 24/08/12

      This is the real world, not TV.  Quite so.  In the real world, we don’t have the advantage of knowing that that the accused is guilty because the writer has put them in the dock or perhaps we’ve even seen them commit the offence earlier in the program.

      Adjusting the rights of the accused will not improve the lot of the victim in the court.

    • jade (the other one) says:

      08:58am | 24/08/12

      I appreciate that Jonty Bush would obviously prefer the rights of the accused to be revoked in the light of her personal history. But such rights are enshrined in law for a host of reasons.

      The accused absolutely should have the right to silence. They are potentially going to be imprisoned, lose their freedom, and perhaps their life. I recognise that for victims, it can be difficult to see the person they believe hurt them or killed a loved one perceived to be given privileges that they do not have, but in the interests of justice, these rights are fundamental.

      It is fundamentally the right thing to do to ensure that people who are potentially innocent, and who potentially will lose their freedom are able to protect that freedom.

      I would rather see ten guilty men go free, than see one innocent person imprisoned. It appears you would be happy for it to be the other way round.

      Furthermore, as an advocate for victims, and as a victim yourself, you have a vested interest in this matter. You are not able to approach it with a rational, logical, and emotion-free perspective. Justice is not equal to vengeance.

      And Jonty, your references to high-priced lawyers do not take into account the thousands of potentially innocent people who are convicted, and imprisoned, solely because they cannot afford such lawyers. As a victims’ advocate, I would like to see you speak with these victims of the system, and gain a more well-rounded perspective on the very good and important reasons for this and other principles before you advocate for their removal.

    • nihonin says:

      09:08am | 24/08/12

      ‘Many of us wouldn’t know about the Right to Silence’.  Would you believe, the ‘Cone of Silence’ is the only one I know of.

    • Inky says:

      11:10am | 24/08/12

      Chief, shouldn’t we be using the Cone of Silence for this?

    • Nathan Explosion says:

      09:11am | 24/08/12

      The Missus, at 18, was drugged and raped by a Z-Grade celebrity (and for those of you who doubt it happens - I’ve seen the toxiology reports the hospital did).

      The court system is the whole reason she didn’t go to the police. It was someone in the media, and she’d have to go over and over the whole thing for god knows how long, having her name dragged through the mud.

      She was only 18, and just couldn’t face it. I don’t blame her. I do, however, wish for ten minutes alone with the arsehole who did it and a cricket bat.

    • AdamC says:

      10:10am | 24/08/12

      @Nathan Explosion, that is horrible. While I see it as a great pity when victims of any crime, but especially sex crimes, do not pursue the matter with police, I can understand why they do not.

      On the other hand, sadly, I see no easy way of modifying the system to make it easier for victims to come forward.

    • Mac Redlands says:

      09:20am | 24/08/12

      thanks T- rev you saved me the trouble of writing essentially the same thing

    • John says:

      09:55am | 24/08/12

      There is always going to be a perverse imbalance and the best we can hope to do is strike the right balance.  I have no difficulty with the proposition that the caution be amended to be one similar to that in the Bill:  it may harm your defence if you do not say something that you later try and rely on in Court.  As a matter of fact, the failure to mention something can and will harm your defence, notwithstanding that the police do not use it in their current caution.  One thing, however, can we cease the use of the Americanism “witness stand” or “taking the stand”.  The damn thing is called a witness box.  You dont take it (where are you going to take it) and you dont stand either.  You get to sit down.

    • vox says:

      12:26pm | 24/08/12

      John, you’re a naughty boy, taking a stand against Americanisms.
      The rest was okay.

    • John says:

      03:06pm | 24/08/12

      Thank you Vox.  Fussy of me, but we all have our little ways.

    • vox says:

      10:48am | 24/08/12

      Good try Jonty, and no doubt that your heart is in the right place, but you must understand, (you should have by now), that the innocent accused is also a victim.
      You say several times in several ways that the accused has rights that are not given to the victim, but you are only assuming that the particular victim is a victim of that particular accused. You pre-suppose that he/she is her/his victim. You cannot, in all sincerity make that supposition.
      The jury system, which I believe wholeheartedly to be the greatest travesty of all, is responsible for more errors than any allowance given or denied to any of the two adversaries.
      When the “expert” comes, on either side, and blinds the issue with technical terms and supposed infallibe science, how can a jury, made up of assorted folk like housewives and bus conductors and carpenters and some people unemployed as the poet said, come to a sound, reasoned decision? It’s a lot about which of the both sides has the best actor representing them and nothing, nothing!, is clear cut.
      Fingerprints are not reliable identification evidence, nor is DNA found at the scene always reliable, but that aside, (but not too far aside), it’s all in the presentation. Ask yourself, Jonty, why is one lawyer better than another. I’ll tell you. It’s for the same reason that two actors with the same script give better and worse performances.
      Sometimes only one of those actors is believable.
      There can never be justice because all men and women are fallible. But we could have a much better system which would see more victims more confident and better served.
      Let’s aim for that.

    • Nathan Explosion says:

      11:20am | 24/08/12

      I’ve been on a jury for a murder case (along with a string of 13 other offences, including reckless endangerment). It’s definatley in the top five most stressful experiences of my life.

    • Al says:

      11:36am | 24/08/12

      Right to remain silent:
      Has to be kept for the accused, after all they are innocent until PROVEN quilty. They are under no obligation to make they proving of an accusation against them easier.
      An alledged victim also has a right to remain silent, it is called not seeking legal help. When they have made an accusation they need to substatiate it. Refusal to answer certainly doesn’t do this and (aside from contempt of court) would lead to the case being thrown out in most cases.

    • St. Michael says:

      12:17pm | 24/08/12

      “Whilst no victim nor victim’s advocate would promote the erosion of offender’s genuine and necessary rights to a fair trial…”

      Funny, because in most cases judging by their demands, that seems to be exactly what most victims or victims’ advocates want.

      You get the impression from the victims, their advocates, and the pack of death-penalty nutcases that tend to follow them around that
      (a) if a police officer arrests you, you’ve done whatever you’re accused of
      (b) if you’re charged, you’re guilty
      (c) if you go to trial, you’re wasting taxpayers’ munny
      (d) if you go to trial, you’re guaranteed acquittal
      (e) whatever you get sentenced to, it’s not enough.

      This rabid stance is self-defeating, because it only hardens the judicial system against them: the judiciary stands as the arbiter of justice, which is revenge tempered by mercy, not a quick trial and up the rope.

      This line of reasoning is also extremely naive, and generally made by people who have no long experience with courts, accused, or the justice system in general.  Instead, they fall victim to confirmational bias and a media that feeds on manufactured outrage when in fact crime rates have been steadily decreasing across the board and where the media only ever, ever tells one side of the story: that of the victim.  Like it or not, the accused is in that court and is a real person, too.  Police and prosecutors are real people too - and just as capable of being corrupt or mistaken as the people they police.

      Do you know what the rationale is behind the presumption of innocence? It’s the principle that the overwhelming majority of people in society are in fact not criminals.  Attack that presumption, and you allow a basic principle based on reality to be burned alive at the hands of media-inflamed cynicism.

    • AdamC says:

      03:26pm | 24/08/12

      What is the point of this comment? You quote author as stating she is not interested in eroding the protections offered to accused offenders then frame a rather ugly spray on the basis that she is.

      I do not see anyone suggesting that we should scrap the presumption of innocence.

    • St. Michael says:

      04:11pm | 24/08/12

      Adam, she’s asking for the right to silence to be abrogated or removed.  That is an erosion of the protections offered to accused offenders.  It is no different to saying “I’m not a racist, but Aboriginal people need to have their welfare payments managed.”

      It indicates a cynical viewpoint that people who are brought before a court are all guilty and it’s only by lawyers’ tricks are they freed.  The truth is somewhat different to that.

      Forcing someone to speak at their own trial amounts to an attack on the presumption of innocence since, like it or not, in a criminal trial, it is the allegation that is being put to proof, not the person.  Demanding the person go into the witness box is a cynical reversal of that position.

    • St. Michael says:

      12:22pm | 24/08/12

      One other point to raise, particularly when it comes to criminal proceedings: the prosecution, since time immemorial, has been complaining that it fights its trials with one arm tied behind its back.

      This rather ignores that the prosecution generally starts the fight with three arms.

    • Gordon says:

      01:18pm | 24/08/12

      So there never was a false or simply mistaken accusation ever made in human history? The onus has to be on the prosecution to prove by themselves a crime was commited and that you dunnit. I expect it is hellishly upsetting for a victim staring at the person they KNOW dunnit, but I really don’t see an option. A good barrister can extract enough inconsistencies and guilty-sounding mumbles from any normal human to hang them, let alone a dim, frightened or confused one.

    • Hartz says:

      03:24pm | 24/08/12

      No one trusts a lawyer and everyone has seen and heard of people getting off on technicalities…. How about you write an article about the bureaucratic bumblings that allow people to get away with murder and/or rape…!!!

 

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