Like a moth to a flame, Tony Abbott has now attended and addressed a second convention of the downtrodden, desperate and dispossessed. On Tuesday, Federal Parliament again became the venue for this people’s rally, or whatever it called itself, which was ostensibly convened to denounce the carbon tax and demand a fresh election in the absence of a government mandate to act on climate change.

Canberra, not Salem. Photo: Kym Smith

Let’s insert a couple of quick caveats here. Everyone who attended these rallies is obviously entitled to hold the views of their choice. And many of the people who attended this rally, and the first one, were salt-of-the-earth punters with a legitimate and sensibly-expressed beef against the government of the day.

Many of them were also barking mad.

Not just a little bit wacky, but card-carrying, rolled-gold, fully paid-up fruitcakes who may well have thought they were being followed to the protest by black United Nations helicopters. Maybe they were. Hmm. Cue the theme from The Twilight Zone.

The assertion by the organisers and participants in these rallies that they represent nothing other than the silent majority simply doesn’t stack up.

The first thing which defines the silent majority in Australia is that it is just that – silent. We’re one of the most politically inactive countries on earth. Most of us might be about to ditch the Gillard Government for lying to us about the carbon tax and letting the lunar left get its hands on the gears of government, but we’re not about to march down the street about it. There are barbecues to attend.

The other thing which defines the silent majority in Australia is that it is also sane. It might have the irritts with the carbon tax and Gillard’s act of deceit, albeit deceit which was forced on her by circumstance, but that doesn’t mean it has leapt to the strange political conclusions which were again on furious hand-drawn display at Tuesday’s shindig.

A quick squiz at the placards around the crowd threw up the following political claims. The United Nations and the International Monetary Fund are taking over Australia. Julia Gillard is a member of Hitler’s Gestapo. Scientists can no longer be trusted. We must introduce citizens initiated referenda so that voters can create legislation themselves. International bankers are destroying us all.

A couple of the placards are worth quoting in their entirety:

“How do we rate women of substance? Aung San Suu Kyi: 10. Wendi Murdoch: 10. Julia Gillard: Nil.”

More odd than sinister, that one.

But also this: “Only LaRouche’s Homeowners and Bank Protection Bill can save Australia: Act Now!”, Lyndon La Rouche being an anti-semitic conspiracy theorist in the US who holds that Israelite usurers have enslaved the world.

If you ticked the box marked “agree” to more than one of the above assertions, I’d politely suggest you need a bit of a lie down. If you walked from Albury to Canberra to attend the rally, as one fellow did, you probably need a bit of a lie down too.

This is not normal behaviour in Australia. It does not represent what we are and how we think and behave.

Tony Abbott’s office said that staff vetted the placards at the rally before their boss attended. Whoever did the vetting either carries a white stick or has had a bypass of taste and reason. Abbott’s qualifier at the rally that he liked some of the placards but didn’t like others was a glib line which did not alter the stupidity of his decision to attend.

Supporters of Abbott have argued that John Howard was the subject of equally offensive ridicule and abuse at political rallies, and that Labor leaders and MPs also attended those rallies.

It’s a valid and important point. It’s also a point which Abbott should learn from.

Kim Beazley was rightly derided for whipping up the crowd at the 1996 union blockade of Parliament House, which turned into a full-blown riot. Beazley’s abysmal speech, where he accused John Howard of “hating” women and working people, did him great damage.

When Pauline Hanson formed the One Nation Party, also in John Howard’s first term as PM, she held rallies around the country which very quickly became a magnet for gun nuts and extremists. At some of these rallies Hanson was rubbing shoulders with unhinged men who would describe John Howard as a Nazi for disarming the Australian population after the Port Arthur massacre.
Hanson’s decision to hang around with these lunatics played a significant role in her abandonment by mainstream voters.

Going back further than that – to a campaign Tony Abbott worked on as a press secretary – many voters were uneasy at John Hewson’s decision to spend most of the 1993 Fightback! election campaign shouting through a megaphone at unruly street rallies.

And this is the baffling thing about Abbott’s conduct.

He has at his disposal the most extraordinarily rich seam of mainstream discontent over Gillard’s performance, yet he has thrown in his lot with the freaks, fascists and flat-earthers who think Ju-Liar is Bob Brown’s Bitch and should be burned at the stake. Some have accused Abbott of a lapse of judgment. Perhaps he has no judgment on this issue at all, happy as he is to associate with people who regard scientists as evil, and believe invisible international forces have enslaved our nation. As things stand we are set to get rid of a government which has opened itself up to ratty left-wing influence for one which is in bed with the ratty right.

432 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      06:08am | 19/08/11

      Ooooo….you’re gonna cop it now, Penbo….....( draws up a chair and reaches for the popcorn.)

    • Fiona says:

      07:33am | 19/08/11

      Isn’t he just!
      I didget a giggle from his paragraph about John hewsons 1993 election campaign though.

    • Jane says:

      07:39am | 19/08/11

      Maybe you should put down the popcorn, get out of your chair and go to work.

    • Erick says:

      08:29am | 19/08/11

      Three articles trying to discredit the same rally in one week. Seems kinda ... desperate?

    • Liz says:

      08:34am | 19/08/11

      Penbo, maybe its time to realize people in Australia are hopping mad about the rising cost of living and the eroding of an affordable Australian lifestyle. Bear in mind there were many more who wanted to be at the rally but due to our home commitments or paid work we weren’t able to attend.

      Lets face it we aren’t all at BBQ’s instead of protesting the silly carbon tax.

      I think things are changing in Australia, we have had enough of this Gillard Carbon tax and enough of being silent. It is offensive to call people who care to protest loonies. Next times the Greenies protest and Bob Brown addresses will you give us a run down of the number of “loonies” who attend that rally and what each of their signs say, please?

    • TomZ says:

      08:54am | 19/08/11

      Shane, sniggering at ordinary people is extremely crass. Don’t forget to sprinkle plenty of smug on your popcorn.

    • The Galah from Hervey Bay says:

      08:55am | 19/08/11

      Penbo….How do you figure Tony Abbott ” has thrown in his lot with the freaks , fascists and flat earthers. ”  ?

      The Opposition leader was asked to address the rally , not to join it .
      You seem to have misread the Australian people , when the people decide to attend political rallies in this country they do so in a big way.

      Most of us understand that there are the usual ” nutters ” in attendance at any rally but we also know that Tony Abbott is highly unlikely to ” throw in his lot ” with them or any fringe lunatics you mention.

      You aint seen nuthin’ if you think that Australians can’t be bothered.

    • Debra says:

      09:44am | 19/08/11

      Two articles on the same subject was plenty enough and to have a third is a sign of desperation. The author is doing exactly what he is telling us not to do. Tony Abbott it seems is the only person doing what is right for the tiring times we are facing now and for the next two years when we will have our say.

    • Tchom says:

      10:09am | 19/08/11

      David has a legitimate point. He’s not saying everyone at the rally was crazy, or that it isn’t their cause wasn’t worthwhile, his argument is saying that the fringe element he is seen with at the rallies alienates moderates and people undecided on the issue (myself included). There’s thisguy in Brisbane who just walks around the CBD yelling about how Ju-liar is a member of the illuminati. That’s not expressing real outrage or a well-concieved argument… thats just plain, old-fashioned insanity

    • Michael N says:

      10:38am | 19/08/11

      Shane - brilliant and prescient comment. Thank you for maintaining the levity. I’m just annoyed that I have to dash to the shops to grab my popcorn (and the “smugness sprinkles” that I like to throw on everything).

    • Hugo says:

      11:00am | 19/08/11

      Shane, I reckon your entitled to sing the “I was right song”

    • wakeuppls says:

      11:03am | 19/08/11

      I wish I could write an article for the punch. If you don’t believe what I believe (even though I don’t even study the subject matter with any depth) then you’re a freak and flat-Earther. Lowest common denominator journalism. It is an embarrassment.

    • Ando says:

      11:57am | 19/08/11

      Even a lighthearted/ neutral comment cops it. People are strange, enjoy your popcorn

    • egg says:

      12:40pm | 19/08/11

      @erick & debra, nothing desparate about having an opinion. that the opinion is shared by 3 separate punch contributors, i feel, says it all really. smile

    • Dave says:

      12:51pm | 19/08/11

      Tomz, maybe you missed it but the point of the article is that these people arent ordinary. Since they are also not disabled and - to the best of my knowledge - voluntarily attended this rally I think that gives carte blanche to laugh at them.
      I am puzzled about Penbo’s comment that this government has gotten into bed with the ratty left. Who is this “ratty left?” There is no formal coalition between the Greens and the labor party so there is no “getting into bed” and second, when a party forces another party to negotiation legislation that is simply a normal part of our democratic procedures. The coalition and labor often negotiate votes to get around the greens and independents, and in the past the Democrats. Ive never heard anyone call that “getting into bed” with the other party. Theres far too much hysteria in today’s political commentary and Penbo is obviously not immune from whipping his dress up to show his knickers while engaging in a bit of silly sceaming.

    • Dan says:

      01:50pm | 19/08/11

      Shane, how right you were. Look at them all!

    • TomZ says:

      01:53pm | 19/08/11

      Dave, “I think that gives carte blanche to laugh at them.” ..... as in “let them eat cake”?

      Or are you saying that, because they were protesting that definitionally excludes them from being “ordinary”? Or is your sticking point that you disagree with them therefore they could not be “ordinary”.

      Sorry Dave, it all sounds like the old fashioned leftie snigger that we have all grown to regard as vomit.

    • TomZ says:

      02:01pm | 19/08/11

      Dan, well “tee hee hee”. Shouldn’t you be practicing for rounders?

    • hillsman says:

      09:30pm | 19/08/11

      yuor all forgetting one thing, abbott is a freak and a flat earther…hes right at home with thses losers

    • Tony Simons says:

      12:47pm | 20/08/11

      Tawdry Abbot is a very nasty piece of work who is desperate to seize power and will stop at nothing. Daily he is exposed as hypocrite and charlatan. He is in no position to call Gillard a liar. He was very close to serial liar Howard of the core and non core promises.

    • TomZ says:

      10:39pm | 20/08/11

      Hillsman and Tony Simmons, and Tony Abbot is a very naughty boy too. He once farted in a lift.

    • acotrel says:

      06:10am | 19/08/11

      Makes friends easily, our Tony ?  What happens when they compare notes and realise he’s telling various groups of them, different variations of the truth?
      All liars have the same problem - they have to remember their lies!

    • Dash says:

      07:17am | 19/08/11

      Gee the ALP has a lot of problems then Alan:

      “There will be no carbon tax”
      “We won’t touch the private health tax rebate”
      “I fully support PM Rudd”
      We’ll build 260 childcare centres
      We’ll make your fuel cheaper
      We’ll make your groceries cheaper
      We’ll provide root and branch tax reform
      We’ll provide more affordable housing
      “I’m a fiscal conservative”
      We’ll provide a coast guard
      “Today I announce an East Timor Solution”
      We’ll reduce consultancies
      We’ll have a citizens assembly
      There will be no new on-shore detention facilities
      “This is about making big polluters pay” (ha ha ha)
      1000 companies, 500 companies, 400 companies…

      What was that you were saying about lies? I hope the ALP has a long memory Alan because some of us voters do.

    • Dave-o says:

      08:03am | 19/08/11

      Children overboard
      Weapons of mass destruction
      AWB
      GST
      Non Core promises

      Howard set the rules Gillards just dancing to them, does it make you angry, Dash?

    • dovif says:

      08:26am | 19/08/11

      Ace Troll

      It is ok

      Gillard really meant that there will be no carbon tax.

      and the NSW ALP really were going to build the NW railroad

      An ALP troll trying to call other parties liars LOL

    • Liz says:

      08:36am | 19/08/11

      And your mate Gillard remembers every lie she tells…...........................????????

      Well she was caught out lying to the whole of Australia about the carbon tax and her lies are many in number we have stopped listening to her.

    • Vader says:

      08:38am | 19/08/11

      Ok Dash now do one of those for Tony Abbott. Shouldn’t be too hard to get an equally long list…if you’re honest.

    • acotrel says:

      09:11am | 19/08/11

      @Dovif
      I can forgive the lies pollies utter in the heat of an election campaign, but when it’s every day regular as clockwork distortion of the truth, innuendo, and outright lies, it is all too much!

    • Jim says:

      09:14am | 19/08/11

      @Dave-o…maybe you should do some reading old chap before shooting your mouth off.

      Children overboard - acting on first hand accounts from the Navy. Only hindsight showed there was a mistake…storm/teacup
      Weapons of mass destruction - acting on the best intelligence available during a time of war. You saying no one has ever given the world incorrect information before??
      AWB - AWB were not to know that the transport company (Alia) were made up of Iraqi government employees! The ‘payments to the Iraqi government’ was a weak accusation to throw at the board. And the Howard government did all it could be launching a royal commission that recommended criminal charges against 12 people…which were later dropped by the AFP.
      GST - Howard had the guts to take this to an election. He won. Get over it.
      Non Core promises - shifting priorities, it’s a fact of life.

      Gillard, and the entire ALP/Green pack will look you in the eye and tell you 2+2=5

    • Carter says:

      09:17am | 19/08/11

      @Dash, what about John Howard’s “core and non-core promises”?

      Or how about we all realise that politicians lie, most of the time because they hold a deep belief which is then compromised by reality?

      Why are we all surprised and (suddenly) outraged?

    • MadKat of Melbourne says:

      09:28am | 19/08/11

      @ Vadar - do your own list if it not that hard - you always criticise people about posts but provide little substance of your own -

      Dash - you forget “some else used my credit card” and the next one will be “someone else used the phone in my hotel room to call the hookers”.

      Dave-o - the GST wasn’t lied about - Howard took it to an election and won a mandate so you can take that off the list -

    • Will says:

      10:07am | 19/08/11

      Jim; “Children overboard - acting on firsthand accounts from the Navy. Only hindsight showed there was a mistake…storm/teacup”

      Um.. no. Do your research mate.

      Howard and Reith deliberately lied about children being thrown overboard despite being told by Navy officials and their own advisors that the claims were untrue.

      It wasn’t hindsight that revealed the truth, it was a Senate Estimates Committee hearing in which Angus Houston spilled the beans. He testified that he had told then Defence Minister Peter Reith that there was no evidence of any children being thrown overboard by their parents but Reith and Howard didn’t want to hear about it.

      If it hadn’t been for Angus Houston and some other Navy men and women of integrity, the truth would have never come out.

    • stevem says:

      10:18am | 19/08/11

      Dash, how about my personal favourite Gillard quote “We will be held to higher standards of transparency ”

    • fml says:

      10:42am | 19/08/11

      Jim, talk about being an apologist.

    • John A Neve says:

      11:05am | 19/08/11

      Dash,

      Acotrel did say “All liars”, you seem to suggest only the ALP lies?
      If your side of politics is so pure, perhaps you could tell us why they
      lost the last election?

    • andrew says:

      11:29am | 19/08/11

      Medicare safety net

      BUT WHO CARES THEY ALL LIE!

    • Hugo says:

      11:39am | 19/08/11

      Jim mate, if you want to be taken seriously do your homework before you post.

    • Jim says:

      12:07pm | 19/08/11

      Hugo - you overestimate how much your opinion means to me.

      fml - call me an apologist all you like. You ferals are jumping up and down about things that happened a decade or two ago, while your red-headed clown paid out hundreds of thousands to bail out a fraudster just so she could keep the top job and get that fat retirement bonus.

    • Hugo says:

      12:20pm | 19/08/11

      Well if you aren’t interested in being persuasive its no skin of my back.

    • James1 says:

      12:23pm | 19/08/11

      “Weapons of mass destruction - acting on the best intelligence available during a time of war. You saying no one has ever given the world incorrect information before”

      This is a highly inaccurate characterisation, which I hope is premised on a lack of knowledge, rather than a deliberate attempt to deceive.  The best intelligence on Iraq was in fact ignored in order to paint a misleading picture.  I may be a conservative, but I am no apologist for stupidity, and the Iraq war was the stupidest thing done by any conservative since Robert Menzies called Hitler a “nice fellow” and sold pig iron to the Japanese.

      Geoffrey Barker cleared up any misconceptions about this in his book “Sexing it up”.  I recommend you educate yourself on this issue before engaging in further discussion of it, Jim.  Suffice to say, all intelligence agencies were saying there were major problems with the things politicians were saying about Iraq and WMD, and that none of those things could be attributed to any intelligence that had been gathered.  Furthermore, when that information was gathered, Iraq was not at war with anyone, nor did it have anything to do with 9/11. 

      As such, that particular statement quoted above is about as wildly inaccurate as they come.

    • n_dude says:

      12:29pm | 19/08/11

      In the case of the so-called GST election Howard did not win the majority of the popular vote but still managed to win the majority of seats. Hardly a mandate. It was an unpopular but necesssary reform to the taxation system. Mind you who notices the GST now?

    • Christian Real says:

      01:29pm | 19/08/11

      Dash
      The old saying “People who live in glass houses should not throw stones”
      So you think, feel and believe in your mind and you are saying that the ALP is the only party that is loose with the truth.
      I have news for you dash and it’s all bad, the Liberal/National party are not that picture perfect party that your imagination leads you to believe they are.
      The only believeable things that Abbott did ever say, since he has became Leader of the opposition is “Don’t believe everything I say” , and that unless statements are carefully prepared written statements then they are not the gospel truth.

    • acotrel says:

      02:53pm | 19/08/11

      @Carter
      ‘Or how about we all realise that politicians lie, most of the time because they hold a deep belief which is then compromised by reality?

      Why are we all surprised and (suddenly) outraged?’

      Because Juliar is denying the LNP its birth right !

    • acotrel says:

      02:56pm | 19/08/11

      @Carter
      ’ how about we all realise that politicians lie, most of the time because they hold a deep belief which is then compromised by reality?

      Why are we all surprised and (suddenly) outraged?’

      Because ‘Juliar’ is denying the LNP its birthright (baaad losers) !

    • Anichol says:

      04:41pm | 19/08/11

      I like to think that most Australians aren’t as one eyed as those who regularly post here, if you can justify the current governments mistakes based on things the previous government did then you should not have the right to vote also if you can accept the crap Abbott and co are dishing to us as an alternative you should also not have the right to vote!.
      The problem with this country’s political system is rusted on voters who regardless of performance and policies will not make an effort to understand or investigate their merits but instead just follow blindly.
      I found investigating Keating and Howard’s time in office to be very eye opening in regards to where we find ourselves at the moment.
      In my belief Howard is responsible for the increased costs we face today as most of his policies were based around growth which he did well with but he did not keep up with this growth with infrastructure.
      Now we pay for that, but to complain about what this Labour government is doing is as bad as complaining about what Howard did.
      We are an ungrateful bunch if we think that this country would be any better if we had not had both parties having a run in office.
      Back to the article, Abbott in my opinion does not care what happens to Australia just as long as he is the prime minister. I could never see Howard attending such rallies because he was a real leader.

    • Nathan says:

      01:46am | 20/08/11

      @Jim as far as you saying shut your mouth and learn the facts why don’t you do the same. The facts are how I see it obviously but I can also back mine up so don’t be such an arrogant person

      Children overboard - acting on first hand accounts from the Navy. Only hindsight showed there was a mistake…storm/teacup – The Navy told the Government that what they said was very MISLEADING
      Weapons of mass destruction - acting on the best intelligence available during a time of war. You saying no one has ever given the world incorrect information before??- No what we are saying is that it was clear that he was wrong in sending us to war, if I act on incorrect info I still need to be held accountable for what I do with it
      AWB - AWB were not to know that the transport company (Alia) were made up of Iraqi government employees! The ‘payments to the Iraqi government’ was a weak accusation to throw at the board. And the Howard government did all it could be launching a royal commission that recommended criminal charges against 12 people…which were later dropped by the AFP. – Yet Downer should of known early and said nothing
      GST - Howard had the guts to take this to an election. He won. Get over it.- Can’t argue I think you are right with this one
      Non Core promises - shifting priorities, it’s a fact of life. – You can’t call Gilliard a liar than say this is ok to come out after the event and say they where not core promises
         
      The way I see it Howard over saw some great things for Australia such as a war, a sliding education and health system and divided the country on race issues but atleast he got semiautomatic weapons away from the public.

    • Notvelty says:

      08:51am | 20/08/11

      There is little more childish or sick in Australian and world politics than one side excusing their sins in a race to the bottom.  Why is any of it acceptable?

    • Erick says:

      06:17am | 19/08/11

      This is exactly the sort of thing that journos were saying about the Tea Party in the Us a couple of years ago. And the Tea Party just ignored them and kept growing.

      Sad article, Penbo. Labelling political rivals as loonies doesn’t work so well now that we have the Internet.

    • acotrel says:

      07:08am | 19/08/11

      @Erick
      Is that ‘labelling’  or should it be ‘identifying’ ?  Somebody should have done that in thirties Germany!  There is a clear and present danger!

    • SteveP says:

      07:12am | 19/08/11

      Yes, giving you loonies the internet was a mistake indeed smile

    • NigelC says:

      07:26am | 19/08/11

      The issue is Erick, that me and many like me think that Gillard lied to us, we understand there has never been a new tax the ALP didn’t see as an answer to their problems and while we accept that CO2 emissions should be reduced significantly we have no relationship with the loonies who paraded in front of Parliament House.  I don’t want to be tarred with the same brush simply because I want to see the back end of Gillard as she leads he ineffective government on to the opposition benches.

      Abbot risks alienating voters like me who certainly do not want a Gillard/Brown government but don’t relate to the placard waving conspiracy theorists. If the Liberal brains trust need a message, it is bring back Turnbull - you will win in a landslide. But with Abbott at the helm I’m not so sure that voters won’t get the last minute jitters.

    • Fiddler says:

      07:30am | 19/08/11

      acotrel, you are Godwins law defined. Go pull on the peacepipe, it’s a few hours until Centrelink opens.

    • Tim says:

      07:43am | 19/08/11

      Yes exactly Erick,
      Now every loonie can find the right website to prove their particular theory correct.
      I mean If someone said it on the Internet it must be true right?

    • acotrel says:

      07:56am | 19/08/11

      @Steve,
      Yesterday we had SuperD saying that our communications s ystem should be shut down when there is a crisis caused by people expressing dissent.  Do you also subscribe to that idea? When will you be setting up the concentration camps?

    • acotrel says:

      08:01am | 19/08/11

      @Fiddler
      Why does Godwin’s law only apply when the right wing of politics gets some stick.  There is no equivalent law which applies when someone is called a ‘commie’ !Are you blokes so dumb that you cannot identify your own ideology?  It has a very unpleasant precedent!  Look in the mirror, and shave off your toothbrush moustache!

    • LeftRightOut says:

      08:26am | 19/08/11

      I wonder if Penbo’s girlfriend helped him with this one? Just when the rest of the media were settling down their rhetoric on thwart allies, Penbo comes out with this crap.
      Were you there, Penbo? Or was this reported to you by Kate Ellis?

    • Erick says:

      08:28am | 19/08/11

      “First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.” - Mohandas K. Gandhi

    • acotrel says:

      08:43am | 19/08/11

      @NigelC
      ‘If the Liberal brains trust need a message, it is bring back Turnbull - you will win in a landslide’

      You are assuming that there are people in the LNP who have a social conscience, and enough clout to bring Turnbull to power?  Also that the statements he’s made while under the influence of the LNP backroom boys, don’t come back to bite him.

    • Tom says:

      08:59am | 19/08/11

      acetrol, .... “Is that ‘labelling’  or should it be ‘identifying’ ?  Somebody should have done that in thirties Germany!”

      Somebody did. Ask the Jews who had to wear that ID.

    • Tubesteak says:

      09:00am | 19/08/11

      It’s not wrong to label a loony as a loony.

      If this is representative of the silent majority then no wonder this country is dead in the water. The only thing that makes us look alive is the current flowing to China.

    • Tim says:

      09:15am | 19/08/11

      Nice Erick,
      Too bad that the attribution to Gandhi of that quote is disputed on the Oracle - Wikiquotes.
      http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mohandas_Karamchand_Gandhi

      Here’s another Gandhi quote from that page:
      “An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it. Truth stands, even if there be no public support. It is self sustained. “

      mmm, Interesting.

      And one I thought you’d like Erick:

      “To call woman the weaker sex is a libel; it is man’s injustice to woman”

      All hail teh interwebz, the font of all knowledge.

    • acotrel says:

      09:29am | 19/08/11

      @Tom
      There is a subtle difference between identifying loonie ideology, and making a minority group a scapegoat on the basis of race.  It’s something the LNP should learn in it’s dealings with disadvantaged groups.

    • Adam Diver says:

      09:40am | 19/08/11

      Labelling individuals and generalising groups are two different things. The polls certainly reflect the slient majority (although if their opinion is captured in a poll is it still silent?). The media coverage of “right-wing” protest is an amazing phenomenon. I assume no-one cares about the left protest these days because they hold one every second week.

      As for being tarred, etc, that will happen regardless. There are many individuals on the punch that tar us all with a bad name, both left and right. There are many people in my community that give it a bad name. There are some members of parliament and sporting and music and any group that give the group and its followers a bad name. However its obvious when the fringe is used to represent the majority that someone is simply pushing an agenda.

      Regardless of which Tony Abbott and Julia Gillard have a duty to represent all Australians. They should speak to supporters and debate there positions with opposition in a democracy. Labelling them from the comfort of parliament is a disgrace, and generalising to deligitamize a protest is a similar disgrace. If you really want some substance perhaps the cause of the protest should get the equivelent journalistic integrity.

    • Maximus says:

      09:42am | 19/08/11

      Erick, Penbo has not named politcal rivals as loonies, he has named the loonies as loonies… There were loonies there at Abbotts Rally, and Penbo identified the loonies there at Abbotts Rally. Not really hard mate. There were loonies there, the loonies were visible, the loonies were expected, Abbott and his team did little or nothing to restrict the loonies that were there and Penbo simply made this fact visible and public. Do you have a problem with the press making that fact public?

      As for loonie fringes elsewhere and the growth of political movements, as Adolf made evident in the 1930s in Germany, you do not have to be right, fair, democratic or even sane to be popular at times, and especially in times of tension and uncertainty. The unhinged loonie fringe mostly comes out of it’s dark hole when uncertainty reigns, especially when you have an associated, like minded group of politicians ready to exploit them and incite them to action…

    • Dan says:

      09:52am | 19/08/11

      Erick, the Tea Party are still freaks.

      Penbo’s got a real point. The Tea Party is doing real damage to the Republican’s hopes of knocking off Obama. Based on performance alone, Obamam should go in favour of Mitt Romney. But the Tea Party is actively working to make sure that doesn’t happen.

      Images like those seen at the NoCT rally scare away mainstream voters. They give moderates a reason not to vote Coalition. Labor’s already giving moderates plenty of reasons to move to the right - why counter that?

      The Tea Party is the best thing the Democrats have going for them. Average, swinging voters are scared off by extremists. The Coalition should be fearing the very same thing if it keeps throwing it’s lot in with Chris Smith and his army of loonies.

      And, as Penbo pointed out - it doesn’t have to anyway.

    • MadKat of Melbourne says:

      10:05am | 19/08/11

      Maximus - “Do you have a problem with the press making that fact public?” - I don’t have a problem with that as it’s called freedom of speech.

      I do have a problem with your saying “Abbott and his team did little or nothing to restrict the loonies that were there and Penbo simply made this fact visible and public” - you obviously believe the best course of action for Abbott would have been to restrict their freedoms - how would he have done that - denigned them their freedom of speech by locking-em up - the left is sounding more like a regime everyday -

    • fml says:

      10:46am | 19/08/11

      Well, when the right say that the moderate muslims are just as guilty as terrorists if they dont denounce the fundamentalists, shouldnt the same logic be applied here?

      Or is it only Abbot supporters can hold two ideologically opposed ideas differentiated only by who they apply it to, and assure themselves that its a rational position to take?

    • Erick says:

      11:02am | 19/08/11

      @Dan - Feel free to believe that if it makes you feel better. Current polling has Obama sitting on a 39% approval rating, and the economy is getting worse. And, as I pointed out, false portrayals of the Tea Party by the media are not working, because alternative means of mass communication exist now.

    • Trevor says:

      11:24am | 19/08/11

      All the more reason to stomp these loons out NOW then Erick! Those Tea Party freaks in the US won’t be happy until the entire nation is subsistance living and killing each other with their high-powered weaponry. Look at the Republican list for possible Presidential candidates- the entire world is in trouble is they get in.

    • Fiddler says:

      11:26am | 19/08/11

      @acotrel, because you jumped straight to it with absolutely nothing to back it up, If you study history you will see we are a long way off 1930’s Germany, but you went straight there. Yes I am right wing, I don’t deny it and will throw the odd insult if deserved (you deserved it then) but I enjoy good robust debate which you didn’t supply

    • Dan says:

      11:26am | 19/08/11

      Erick, I agree with you on Obama.

      But to think that someone like Michelle Bachmann or Rick Perry has buckley’s against him is foolish. And the polling backs me up.

      The majority of American voters do not identify with the Tea Party. They poll at 30%, at best. The Tea Party can influence congress - but it won’t take the White House.

      Moderate Republican voters will never turn out on polling day to back a Tea Party candidate. Tea Party voters will never back a “RINO” like Romney. They’re splitting right down the middle.

    • MadKat of Melbourne says:

      11:31am | 19/08/11

      fml -
      1. on a fundamental level terrorists are criminals and are breaking criinal law
      2 under the law moderate muslims who agree with fundamentalists are not charged with criminal offences therefore not deemed to be equally as bad - they are though morally supporting criminal behaviour but are protected by their right to freedom of speech
      3 people who think the moderates are equally as bad, are again merely stating an opinion offered to them under freedom of speech
      4 these protestors were (a) not terrorists and (b) have not broken any criminal laws (3) nor are supporting and (4) not inciting any criminal acts. They are only exercising their right to freedom of speech

      Therefore your logic cannot be applied here.

      It becomes a slipperly slope when groups exercising their right to freedom of speech are being compared with groups who committ crimes against the state.

    • MadKat of Melbourne says:

      11:44am | 19/08/11

      Though fml you could use that logic when Greg Combet, once ACTU Secretary was at a rally where Parliament was stormed and criminal damage done - in both your analogy and the storming of Parliament by the union criminal laws were broken - is the Labor Party or Combet guilty by your logic as they still support the unions ???

    • Timmy says:

      11:48am | 19/08/11

      You can apply all sorts of labels to people.

      Loonies, left wing, right wing, conservative, liberal, homophobic, progressive, extreme.

      None of these labels has anything to do with whether or not what the people we are labelling are saying is true.

    • MadKat of Melbourne says:

      12:24pm | 19/08/11

      Trevor - chill pill - the Tea Party movement is in the US - a tenious link is being made only by the fact that there are protests here and protests in the US - why not link in the protests from the middle east as well. All protests have completely different governmental systems, all economies are at different levels. You couldn’t possibly “stomp out” (rather violent imaginary) a free and legal protest in Australia because of what a group of unassociated people are doing in another country - the Republician Party in the US doesn’t exist here and the US is going through a completely different set of problems to us -

      I hate communism as I believe it has adverse affects on economies -  but would never want to “stomp out” a gathering of activitists meeting in Australia - because I believe in freedom of speech -

      You are obviously very frightened by people having different opinions to your own -

    • fml says:

      12:29pm | 19/08/11

      Yes Kat, if you break the law you should be held to the law.

      But no, the analogy to the terrorists is not correct because, we are not judging them, we are judging the people who sit back and say nothing. Moderate muslims are not terrorists and are asked to denounce the extremists, the analogy to the moderate in government to denounce the extreme right is not negated just because terrorrists are bad people and can be applied here. It just sounds like you are rationalising double standards.

    • PTom says:

      12:48pm | 19/08/11

      Big difference US and here is the tea-party will vote for their candiates and moderates just won’t vote.

      Here everyone votes so the more Right-whinge fruit loops that back the Liberal party the better.

    • MadKat of Melbourne says:

      01:08pm | 19/08/11

      no fml - if a right wing group committed a criminal act then I would definitely say denounce them (and I’m right wing) but the last time I looked the Liberal Party was not a criminal organisation nor were the protestors this week - terriorists that have committed a crime are criminals - your comparing denouncing criminal behaviour with denouncing a belief in an extreme politicial view - I will denounce a criminal act committed but I will not denounce a group of people who hold views they are allowed to have under law and that have committed no crime because I may or may not have a difference of opinion with them - it is not rationalising a double standard because your logic is comparing apples and oranges - you’re comparing criminal acts with differences of opinion -

      The correct usage of your logic would be

      1. If someone said moderate muslims should be held equally accountable if they support criminal acts done by extremists but moderate christians should not be held accountable if they support what happened in Norway - then I definitely agree that that situation would be wrong -
      and
      2. If someone said the Liberal Party should have to denounce a group of extreme right protestors but the Labor Party shouldn’t have to denounce of group of Communist protestors - and that situation would be wrong too.

      That’s comparing apples with apples. Both sides should be held accountable but under the correct comparisons -

    • Trevor says:

      01:09pm | 19/08/11

      Thanks MadKat, I’ve taken my pill and have chilled. I was responding to Erick’s apparant jubilation that this protest movement should not be dismissed due to the Tea Party in America’s overcoming the incredulous response from the media 5they received initially. But that is not the only link between the two I’m afraid.

      It is not only the fact that they protest that makes these two movements similar, but underlying philospohy. Just like the Liberal party here, the Tea Party believe in ‘small government’, many to the extreme that the state should only provide a police service and an army (Ayn Rand). This is the sort of thinking that besets those opposed to the Carbon Tax. I don’t believe most of them disbelieve AGW or the science (although a lot do), they just can’t bring themselves to accept that this is a problem the Government should tackle. They have no concept of a ‘tragedy of the commons’ and think that private enterprise is our most efficient benefactor who should be relied upon to deliver us from all evil (in the philisophical sense). Despite all of the previous consensus in Australian that something needs to be done, the Libs are now rejecting a market-based approach that is actually more in line with the above philosphy than Abbott’s direct action!

      We all agree that the multi-billion dollar companies that have made these millions partially by pumping toxic crap into our common environment for decades should be made to pay an ongoing cost, and these protesters are similar in their belief that the private market will someday leap to our rescue out of some sort of long-term benevolence that has never existed in the private sector-ever! Can you ever see a CEO, appointed for 4 years, tackling multi-generational issues?

      You hate communism you say? Wouldn’t want to damage the precious economy would we? Well maybe you should take it up with your Liberal leadership, so eager to point to Australia’s failings and economic vulnerabilities. Now THAT is something that is having adverse EFFECTS on our economy. You don’t actually believe that your life is even marginally affected by our GDP do you?

      Well you might just get your wish, If Abbott et al are elected, we can go back to the times of the robber barons. A time that woke people up to the fact that we need our government to provide servicesand products that the private sector can’t, such as social security, universal health care and education.

      Now I need another pill…

    • TomZ says:

      01:13pm | 19/08/11

      fml, trying to pretend that the Tea Party and bomb throwing terrorists are somehow equivalent may amuse you and other pea-brained bloggers. Apart from the clever-clogs satisfaction it gives you all at the Newtown caucus meetings, there is no validity in such a proposition.

      It remains that yourself and time-wasters such as Trevor (or the plethora of “lookalikes” that accompanied him) are attempting to float an absurd B/S equivalence.

      Your use of repetition of the word “loonie” in an attempt to somehow validate the whole absurdity will always be dishonest and stupid.

    • Trevor says:

      01:53pm | 19/08/11

      Hey TomZ, I never put forward such a stupid arguement! Just repeat after me…“It’s my money and I want it all, I refuse to contribute to societal costs!” There, feel better?

    • MadKat of Melbourne says:

      02:01pm | 19/08/11

      Trevor - yes extreme right believe in no public funding for police, hospitals etc. but most right-wing don’t - thats the extreme - just as Labor has extreme communists in their ranks that don’t reflect the majority of thinking in the party - its called having perspective Trevor -

      Oh please - don’t quote tragedy of the commons (or as it should more rightly to put now-a-days “tragedy of the unregulated commons”) or gdp to me - what were you expecting - I’d be in awe of your intellectualism - I have a masters in economics and can pick through any argument you put forward -

    • Tchom says:

      02:12pm | 19/08/11

      Christine O’Donnell dabbled in witchcraft. I’m just saying…

    • Tomz says:

      02:19pm | 19/08/11

      Trevor, repeat what? Go and sniff some glue.

    • fml says:

      02:23pm | 19/08/11

      TomZ,

      When have i used the word loonie? Odd. I have not even spoken about the Tea Party. Have you got me confused for someone else?

      Kat,

      No, My logic is moderates should denounce all extremes in any field. Bringing in the argument of criminality is a rationalisation. As for freedom of speech, Australia does not have any constitutional regulations to allow for freedom of speech. Infact it has the opposite, public defamation is illegal. You are just lucky you have a prime minster that doesnt mind being called, a communist, liar, bitch, witch, clown amongst other things, and yes i do think that while some politicians are not the most moral of people, a little respect for authority wouldnt go astray and they should be showed enough respect to have their policies debated and not called childish names, despite how freedom of speech is perversely bastardised.

    • MadKat of Melbourne says:

      02:32pm | 19/08/11

      Trevor - I think you’ll find that the majority of Australians don’t mind putting funds towards societal costs - they just don’t like it when the Labor Party wastes and mismanages the money as they always do -

    • Trevor says:

      02:47pm | 19/08/11

      @TomZ

      “...societal costs” That would be the costs that each member pays towards tackling common problems, forming centralised organisations and assisting members of the community in need. That would be tax, and yes, we are still living in a society.

    • TomZ says:

      02:54pm | 19/08/11

      fml, you are slithering. “Moderate muslims are not terrorists and are asked to denounce the extremists, the analogy to the moderate in government to denounce the extreme right is not negated ...”

      What “analogy”? Do you see the two as equivalent? I sure as hell don’t.

    • MadKat of Melbourne says:

      02:59pm | 19/08/11

      fml - you’re acting like only Gillard has ever been called names - it happens on both sides of politics - Howard was called worse -

      Still your logic doesn’t hold - you have only implied through generalisation that the extreme right-wing as a group all hold a belief that moderate muslims should be treated equally to terrorists if they support them - your implied generalisation is only that until you can prove that all right-wing people do hold such a belief. Until then you cannot draw a conclusion because the basis for your argument is flawed (is not a truth). In summary you hold a belief that this is what right-wing extremist believe - you have to prove your belief system before moving on.

      If you have evidence that the right-wing as a whole believe this then present it and we’ll see if its a truth.

      Its the same as the carbon debate - the Liberals believe that global warming is a sham - but it is only a belief (not a truth) until their argument can be proven (I sit in the middle of this debate and haven’t made up my mind - I use this only as an illustration between belief and truth).

      And as for freedom of speech

      “In 1948 the United Nations General Assembly adopted the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR). Article 19 affirms the right to free speech: Article 19. Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.(1) Members of the Commonwealth Parliament reaffirmed the principles of the Declaration during a sitting on 10 December 1998 to mark the 50th anniversary of the UDHR and pledged to give wholehearted support to the principles enshrined in the Declaration.(2)” which I admit is only support and not legislation. We have implied freedom of speech through the court system. Would you like to shut down a group with political leanings and test it through the courts ???

      I have enjoyed our sparring match - we seem to be the nearly the only ones on the blog that disagree and haven’t reverted to name calling though - how very civilised of us -

    • Trevor says:

      03:08pm | 19/08/11

      OK MadKat, please dazzle me with your ‘intellectuallism’ (or do you mean interlect?) I think that it should be ‘intellectuality’ as you obviously think that have an ‘informed’ position on subjects such as this is somehow sexy or shows what a big dick you have.

      Now that we have obviously reached the limits of growth, please put forward a basis for a zero growth economy. That is what this world needs after the bubble epoch that has characteristed the last 20 years. We have passed ‘Peak Oil’ (a fact that economists such as you ameliorate with crap such as ‘alternatives will reveal themselves once cost effective’ or ’ the stone age didn’t end because they ran out of stone’!) and are choking on our own debt. You champion economists had no clue the GFC was impending and have got it wrong 1000 other times. Please let me know how to do this as you obviously have all the answers with your masters in economics. Great for hindsight but not so much for predictions? Please put a framework on the debt jubilee that will be the only end to the current global economic malaise.

      I suspect that if you thought ‘tragedy of the commons’ and ‘GDP’ were just me trying to bewilder you with big words, then I don’t expect much here.

      If you can’t then I would suggest you only acquired that degree by regurgitating the latest crap of Milton Friedman, Alan Greenspan and friends, who incedentally have recently been backpeddaling faster than Tony Abbott cycling towards accountability .

    • Sodapoppy says:

      03:11pm | 19/08/11

      You’re telling me Tim Flannery isn’t one of the greatest loonies in the world?? Get real, sport, go out and ask a few relevant questions instead of swallowing the tripe the Ggreenfreaks push out like foul-smelling sausages.

    • MadKat of Melbourne says:

      04:20pm | 19/08/11

      Trevor - I don’t have something to swing around as I’m a girl - you’re not exactly the most charming person on the blog I must say - fml and I are on complete opposing sides and I’ve just complimented him because we seem to be the only ones not calling each other names but having a proper debate -

      You obviously have very limited scope when it comes to proper debating - you retort with snide or crude comments and seem to get very emotional when someone differs with you. You give no facts to back up your arguments (i.e. its obvious we have reached the limits of our growth - who says, you or do you have references ??), you just throw alot of assumptions around (i.e. as to what my beliefs on the economy are - not every right winger is an extreme right winger) and if questioned respond by biting. I’m not even going to respond to your queries regarding what I’ve said because the back-and-forth would be too boring and really I don’t think you get it - much rather debate with someone like fml - at least he adds substance to his arguments and treats the process of the argument with respect and people like him don’t make themselves look ridiculous by talking about swinging body parts around -

    • TomZ says:

      04:37pm | 19/08/11

      Trevor, gee whizz mate, stop it, you’re making me cry. I am going to rush out now and pay all my carbon tax. Let’s hope it is not to late to save the kiddies’ little kitten or fluffy nosed goose flying in the wilderness.

      Thanks mate, I have seen the light. Where should I take the money to?

    • fml says:

      05:41pm | 19/08/11

      Tom yes, Obviously terrorists and the people waving around placards are not the same thing, to suggest that i see them as such is ridiculous.

      The premise of this article is that the people protesting against the carbon tax by using offensive placards not related to the carbon tax is not doing the debate any good, also with Mr Abbott attending such events it can be construed, in the eyes of the moderates that he supports such behavior. The logic behind that is anybody with a moderate message who is serious about the issue should show steps to side step away from the fringes who detract from the argument. How is that wrong? 

      Also, instead of saying that i am slithering, answer my question, which is how did i make any comment relating or even inferring any connection to the tea party? The most i will admit to is that the logic can be applied in any moderate vs extreme argument, any more than that and you have elaborated on the issue, not me.


      Kat,
      ” you have only implied through generalisation that the extreme right-wing as a group all hold a belief that moderate muslims should be treated equally to terrorists if they support them”
      Sorry, no, not was i saying at all, You personally may have not said this, but it has been a recurring theme amongst right wing commentators, not all mind, that moderate muslims should denounce terrorism, to prove to the world that they are infact moderate, i think the same logic can be applied here, i am fully aware of the difference between the terrorists and placard holding protesters, I agree with penbo that, logical debate about the carbon tax should consist of arguments backed up by fact, and while rallying should be encouraged in a democracy, the placards and “facts” about gillards personal character and physical appearance detract from the debate, usage of this tactic marginalizes your point of view, yes i know howard was called names too, but this tactic of attacking the person not the argument by its very nature glosses over what we should be scrutinising, and as such, moderates on both sides should denounce it not rationalise it.

      “Its the same as the carbon debate - the Liberals believe that global warming is a sham” I am not a liberal, but i do not think they think its a sham, if it is a sham, why do they have a direct action plan? i think the difference is which governments policy is more efficient to implement.

      I agree universal right to freedom of speech is afforded through the UN, but in Australia its not a constitutional right, we thankfully , IMO, realise that freedom of speech is a double edged sword, hence the safegaurds we have put in place to prevent public defamation and inciting hatred. while we could argue via the UN, it doesn’t supercede australian law. You may win if you take it to the UN but i seriously doubt they would do anything but send an email to the prime minister and say, youve been a naughty girl.

      I agree, thanks for the debate, its been fun, certainly a decent distraction from my dull day!, Friday FTW!

    • RyaN says:

      05:50pm | 19/08/11

      @SteveP: whatever was Al Gore thinking when he invented the internet!

    • B says:

      10:02pm | 19/08/11

      @acotrel

      Ive never seen or heard of anyone as ignorant or naive as you mate!!!

    • acotrel says:

      09:35am | 20/08/11

      @fml
      ‘Or is it only Abbot supporters can hold two ideologically opposed ideas differentiated only by who they apply it to, and assure themselves that its a rational position to take? ‘

      Abbott supporters are schizoid?

    • Trevor says:

      02:41pm | 20/08/11

      MadKat,

      You certainly have a very literal and glib interpretation of everything I have said here. I don’t believe I have called you any names, although I will admit I got a bit terse with you towards the end there.

      However, when you come out with the following rippers:

      “Oh please - don’t quote tragedy of the commons (or as it should more rightly to put now-a-days “tragedy of the unregulated commons”) or gdp to me - what were you expecting - I’d be in awe of your intellectualism - I have a masters in economics and can pick through any argument you put forward - ” 

      you are getting into what is colloqially known in Australia as a ‘big dick contest’ and is like waving a red flag at an Aussie bloke. So please don’t feign offence. And yes, I’m very charming, just ask either of my two wives. If we were in the sandpit I’d be pointing at you right now saying ‘she started it!’

      I provided you an explanation of my original post after you glibly and condescendingly thought I was linking Abbott’s rent-a-crowd with the Tea Party merely because they protest. Then you follow up with some vintage Tea Party rhetoric railing against communism, only to finish with “You are obviously very frightened by people having different opinions to your own - “.

      If you want to know about some of the things that I mentioned, try reading Noam Chomsky, Nouriel Roubini, Dmitry Orlov, David Suzuki, Richard Heinberg, Thomas Homer Dixon, Jared Diamond, Matt Simmons or the thousand others spreading the message of imminent global collapse. Try these websites to start with, I’m not going to do all of your reaserch for you:
      http://www.energybulletin.net/
      http://www.aspo-australia.org.au/

      You have a masters in economics, well done. I have degrees in International Relations and Chinese so I tend to look at the broader global picture. From what I can see, economists carry much of the blame for the debt-fuelled shitstorm that is about to engulf us. You are going to have to face the fact, and shortly I would think, that all of your economic modelling and paradigms are becoming redundant before your very eyes, and the house of cards is falling. Economists got us here and they sure as hell aren’t going to get us out. This world is going to need broader thinking than the semantics and pedantics you have shown on this blog. Qualities that are typical and abundant today and responsible for a lot of the inaction from Western governments.

      Looking back, I can’t actually see you make an arguement at all, let alone following up with references. Just nitpicking and pedantry. Only to piously close with:

      “...I’m not even going to respond to your queries regarding what I’ve said because the back-and-forth would be too boring and really I don’t think you get it”.

      I think the real truth is MadKet that it is you who doesn’t know what you are talking about. I doubt you have a high school certificate let alone a masters degree.

      I hope Erick is reading this as it demonstrates my original post perfectly!

    • Trevor says:

      02:54pm | 20/08/11

      TomZ,

      No worries mate, happy to help. And the beautiful thing is, you don’t have to pay the tax at all! As we all seemingly have the assumption that the poor little multi-billion corporations or their shareholders shouldn’t possibly be asked to carry the cost of polluting our common environment, they are the ones who will be sending you the bill. So if you don’t want to pay, just don’t use their products! Ahh- the simplicity of the user-pays system.

      Remember, that little kitten could grow into the cat that saves you in a housefire, or that fluffy nosed goose could be the meal that saves your life when you crash you learjet in the wilderness.

    • MadKat of Melbourne says:

      11:06am | 22/08/11

      Wow Trevor - a whole post about me or was it about kids in sandpits? Or just another of your long-winded replies still full of assumptions and off the mark suppositions that don’t actually say anything.

      Where did I say you called me names - I said you were snide and crude - not the same thing.

      I didn’t rail against communism - I merely stated that although I don’t like them I would never “stomp them out” and denign them their freedom of speech like you would in your comment regarding the right-wing.

      I’ve already asked you about one your other assumptions - “we have reached the limits of our growth”, and you have failed to supply any information about how you came to this supposition.

      You assume I haven’t done my own research or read the authors you have listed. I especially like Chomsky and as an economist read anything Roubini has written - I’m even a member and get daily emails off his website. I also especially like Naomi Klein, John Perkins and Paul Hawken among others, however I don’t believe everything I read and do alot of research myself.

      “You are going to have to face the fact, and shortly I would think, that all of your economic modelling and paradigms are becoming redundant before your very eyes” - like anyone involved in research would know, models and paradigms shift - its to be expected - economic models are not static but organic and some of us economists are very interested in researching better early warning systems. None of us have the hard-and-fast answers nor claim to have. If we did there would never be any down times with the economy. You have made the assumption that we make this claim.

      “From what I can see, economists carry much of the blame for the debt-fuelled shitstorm that is about to engulf us.” In my opinion it was the financiers and investment banks that got us in this particular situation. Would you like me to supply references?

      “I have degrees in International Relations and Chinese so I tend to look at the broader global picture.” I specialise in macroeconomics so I also have a broad world view. You have only assumed what my world outlook is without having any information.

      “Economists got us here and they sure as hell aren’t going to get us out.” You don’t actually believe that this is the first crash in markets, recession or bad times financially? You need to go and research some historical economics. And who is going to save us then, please supply references?

      “Looking back, I can’t actually see you make an arguement at all, let alone following up with references.” Yeah because you’re posts are just brimful of references to outside sources when you make statements.

      And I still don’t see any juice in your argument - no facts or information. Just lots of assumption and supposition. And to end with belittling me by saying I’m telling lies about myself. Always a good defence for those that have no substance to their arguments.

      Yes Erick - read Trevor comments - lots of words and oh so little substance -

    • NESLIHAN KUROSAWA says:

      06:34am | 19/08/11

      Hi David,

      Desperate times call for desperate measures!!  But right now for every one involved in Australian Politics, it is more like anything goes policy!!  I truly think when it comes to Mr Tony Abbott especially, it is more like lets try one more time policy, just like any other time he was trying to get in touch with the Australian voters!!  May be the silent majority you were talking about.  I must say that some of the bits in this article did make me laugh & think at the same time.!!

      It is not so much about old election promises, then again who wants to remember all that anyway??  We all have birthday & BBQ parties to attend to,  as well as the question of should all we bring our own meat to BBQ’s.  All that work should keep us busy for a while!!  Best regards to your editors.

    • Que says:

      06:35am | 19/08/11

      Who stated the ‘earth is flat’ at the rally David? I think it is you who needs a ‘lie down’.

      All this name calling does not detract from the fact that the majority of Australians feel deeply betrayed and tricked by Gillard. In your photo I see ‘No carbon tax’, ‘ditch the witch’, ‘listen to majority not Bob’. No worse than your average anti-Howard rally.

    • Erick says:

      08:26am | 19/08/11

      The Labor Party has lost all credibility and legitimacy, and will fall as soon as there’s a by-election or a full election.

      Name-calling is al they have left.

    • Mother says:

      08:38am | 19/08/11

      Que you hit the nail on the head, the majority of Australians do not want a new tax wrapped up in the lie of a tax on carbon.

    • Bev says:

      09:13am | 19/08/11

      After looking at footage of the rally such signs as “ditch the witch” were very definately in the minority.  Most other photos would not have shown these signs.  So why was it picked?  Make up your own mind. I call it a deliberate slant.

    • Tim says:

      09:17am | 19/08/11

      Erick,
      what does the Labor party have to do with labelling these loonies as such?
      These people are in no way representative of the people against the Carbon Tax.

    • LeftRightOut says:

      12:40pm | 19/08/11

      I also saw footage of a few loons at the rally. I also saw, the rest of the crowd, bag the crap out of the loons, grabbing at their signs and telling them basically to STFU.
      Penbo does a massive disservice to those in attendance, which I’m sure the majority of those who did attend would find offensive.

      Normally Penbo is pretty good in his reporting/editorials… I can only assume that this piece was just an example of him being lazy. Hung over perhaps.

      As far as he is concerned, noone can speak for the [silent] majority because they must remain silent… go figure. That might make for good dinner conversation with him and his partner, but it’s still BS.

    • John A Neve says:

      01:25pm | 19/08/11

      Erick,

      I believe both the major parties have “lost all credibility”, as to “name calling”, based on this site. Supporters of both sides do a lot of it.
      Politics in this country is about getting what we deserve, sad isn’t it?

    • Rhino says:

      01:50pm | 19/08/11

      Actually after Tony’s effort saying Carbon Dioxide has no weight or mass, Flat Earther is an appropriate label for him. I would suspect there are a large number of people at this rally how would agree that carbon dioxide has no mass volume or weight as well.

      Flat Earthers indeed.

    • Tchom says:

      02:22pm | 19/08/11

      @Que um… the anti-Howard rallies did Labor a huge diservice. David even mentioned that in his article. The rally only serves to cement the beliefs of those who are already against the carbon tax. Swing voters and moderates aren’t going to be sold to the anti-cabon tax movement by mobs frothing at the mouth no more then they are going to be sold on the tax by being patronised like we are at the moment by Labor and GetUp

    • Against the Man says:

      03:52pm | 19/08/11

      I believe John A Neve never had any credibility and is a ALP stooge.

      He is AFRAID to answer direct questions!

    • Popp Suckett says:

      04:55pm | 19/08/11

      I choose to believe none of you are real!

    • John A Neve says:

      06:29pm | 19/08/11

      AtM,
      I note Erick’s post covered you to a T.
      Childish name calling, will you ever growup?

    • Christian Real says:

      09:33pm | 20/08/11

      Against the man
      Knowing John Neve , I would say that he has more credibility than you will ever have, or even hope to have.

    • Unionist says:

      06:42am | 19/08/11

      Penbo, the more telling thing is whenever Abbott or his party mates are questioned on thier policies they imediately revert to slanging off the ALP. You would think if they had a better way they would be out there selling it,but they have nothing to sell except three word slogans. I can see the Abbott brown nosers doing a Mal Farr on you, you know they get all squirmy when their lord almightly saviour gets a bit of scrutiny. but then again it was either them or their parents at that rally.

    • S.L says:

      07:27am | 19/08/11

      @Unionist I love when they bring out the old Menzies chestnut “watch out for the reds under the bed!” I can’t believe people still believe that rubbish!

    • Margaret Gray says:

      07:40am | 19/08/11

      Sad (yet predictable) that David Penberthy has sought to characterise a rally audience where he wasn’t even in attendance.

      Too afraid to go and get the facts?

    • acotrel says:

      08:04am | 19/08/11

      @S.L.  How about ‘fascists under the beds’?

    • static says:

      12:39pm | 19/08/11

      Yep the old reds under the bed,theyve been coming since the fifties. Those soviet tanks are kinda slow arent they. fatuous scaremongering back then and the same today.Change the record please

    • Unionist says:

      05:15pm | 19/08/11

      S.L says:07:27am; “@Unionist I love when they bring out the old Menzies chestnut “watch out for the reds under the bed!” I can’t believe people still believe that rubbish!”

      I’d say it would be pretty easy if you’re a Abbott brown noser, they believe everything wierd like imaginary friends, Reds under the bed, the drivel that spurts from “the chosen one’s” mouth…. I think you know who that maybe. They kinda remind me of middle Americans… if you have ever been there then you’ll know what I mean.

    • Against the Man says:

      06:43am | 19/08/11

      ‘He has at his disposal the most extraordinarily rich seam of mainstream discontent over Gillard’s performance….’

      Well Penbo, maybe you should ask why there is mainstream aka MAJORITY discontent with the immoral Juliar.

      To date she has had zero policy success, and yet she has been part of the Federal government since 2007….......that is a level of incompetence and stupidity only John A Neve Seano Parkhill can appreciate smile

    • acotrel says:

      07:22am | 19/08/11

      @Against the Man
      ‘immoral Juliar’ - you have to be joking?  She made one slip when she didn’t anticipate a hung parliament.  What is Abbott’s excuse for his habit?

    • wolf says:

      07:58am | 19/08/11

      “Well Penbo, maybe you should ask why there is mainstream aka MAJORITY discontent with the immoral Juliar”

      Against the Man you have proved Penbo’s point masterfully with a single sentence.  Personally I am unhappy with the governments performance, I am still trying to figure out how you can implement a new tax that will COST the government money. However I can express my discontent with their policy without resorting to hysterical name calling.

      Take a good read of this article mate, it seems to feature people like you.

    • Damocles says:

      08:30am | 19/08/11

      Go acotrel…....all stops out to head off this popular revolt against a revolting government! All men to battle stations! Must stop this peoples’ juggernaut of government opposition. Must hold onto power! Must control this backlash! Danger. Danger. Danger. Opposition is mounting! This does not compute! Exterminate! Exterminate! You bloody leftist loonies make me laugh! Gillard/ Brown and all the other carrion are dead meat, mate, They just don’t know it yet, but they will soon be getting the message…......LOUD AND CLEAR! So continue your merry rants, makes for a good morning giggle!

    • Vader says:

      08:34am | 19/08/11

      You are exactly the sort of offensive placard waving right wing lunatic that Penbo is describing.

      If the alternative to a bad Labor government offered by Tony Abbott is your sort of rabid right win craziness then God help Australia.

    • acotrel says:

      08:50am | 19/08/11

      @Damocles
      So Tony Abbott is acting in all our interests when he cultivates loonies?

    • Dash says:

      09:07am | 19/08/11

      @acotrel - refer my list above. One slip? You are seriously kidding right? Come on man. This woman has marginalised your party to the left and it is suffering the consequences. Despite trying to tell us that her membership of the Socialist Forum was something she did in her 20s, she was actually a member of that radical lefty organisation right up until 2002. She’s now trying to live that socialist dream to the detriment of your party and to the detriment of our country.

      ALP supporters surely realise that this is by no stretch of the imagination a Hawke/Keating styled ALP. It’s up to someone in the ALP to have the balls to stand up and do something about the leadership because it is destroying the party.

      The Union movement represents less than 15% of the working population, and the socialist fringe to which Gillard has aligned the party, has about 12% of the voting public’s support. The ALP will not survive whilst they stand so far to the left.

      Being in the centre is not about what you say. It’s about what you do. And unfortunately, the ALP has said a lot since 2007, and delivered something very different.

      It needs people like you Alan to stand up and get the party back to where they should be.

    • Bev says:

      09:20am | 19/08/11

      acotrel says:08:50am | 19/08/11

      So Tony Abbott is acting in all our interests when he cultivates loonies?

      Pot kettle black Dullard and the greens.

    • Damocles says:

      09:26am | 19/08/11

      Hey Vader, one man’s right wing loonie is another man’s right wing patriot…..and no “patriot” is not a dirty word! I love my country and want to see it saved from the likes of Gillard and Brown. You, on the other hand, are the type of person who thinks any opposition to their beloved Labor, or Greens, or whatever the heck you believe in, is wrong! Well, a healthy democracy gives ANYONE the right to speak out and protest against a “government” that is BAD…..and I mean BAD TO THE BONE!!
      @ acotrel…...Tony Abbott is more a true Australian (and by that I mean, a true patriot) than Gillard or Brown ever could be. He does not “cultivate loonies” as you so delicately put it. He receives support from the average working Joe (or Josephine) who wants their country to prosper and not be brought down by a “government” hell bent on taxing it out of existence! Oh, your Nazi comparisons are tedious mate, give it a rest.

    • acotrel says:

      09:33am | 19/08/11

      @Dash
      ’ she was actually a member of that radical lefty organisation right up until 2002. She’s now trying to live that socialist dream to the detriment of your party and to the detriment of our country’

      Mr B.A.Santamaria is alive and well?  That’s the sort of paranoia that got 521 men killed in Vietnam!

    • Vader says:

      11:02am | 19/08/11

      @Damocles

      What part of my comment about a “bad Labor govenment” makes them my “beloved Labor”.

      Did you even read what I wrote before posting that moronic comment.

      “Hey Vader, one man’s right wing loonie is another man’s right wing patriot”

      Bullshit. It is not patriotic to blindly support one side spitting hate and ignoring facts that are inconvienent. That’s the refuge of crazies and scumbags. Calling Gillard an “immoral (Ju)liar” when Abbott has admitted he lies to win arguments is exactly the sort of loony partisanship that is the problem with Australian politics.

      BTW. What craziness did you have on your sign?

    • fml says:

      11:14am | 19/08/11

      ATM,

      If its a silent majority, how do you know what they believe?

    • Brad McT says:

      01:03pm | 19/08/11

      It isn’t a silent majority! If you want us to shout louder than stop calling us loonies!

      Either way the Gillard government is finished beyond finished.

      The ALP and all its supporters have nothing to show for all these years in government except, waste, corruption, scandal, back stabbing and union kick backs!

    • PTom says:

      01:13pm | 19/08/11

      @Dash,

      I guess that must make Phoney a Catholic priest after all he did study for the roll and he is still devoted today.

      So will he ban condoms to stop AIDS?
      or stop sex education to stop teenage pregnancy?

    • John A Neve says:

      03:17pm | 19/08/11

      AtM,
      Having read Dash’s comments above, both you and he must be spokespersons for the Truth Party! Lead by the man that never lies, he just bends the truth and you both follow him with devout deference.
      You poor blind fools.

    • Damocles says:

      05:27pm | 19/08/11

      Hey “Darth” Vader….......“That’s the refuge of crazies and scumbags.” Who’s talking bullshit now? I’ve got no time for moronic rants from the likes of you! Go and worship at the leftist altar…............while you can, cause soon it’ll be toppling down around you and your ranting lot! Tony Abbott WILL be PM and then we’ll see this disgusting fiasco put to an end! ‘Til then, may the protests continue against this arrogant, secretive, lying, deceptive, dishonest, wasteful, shameful waste of a “government”. The trucks are rolling too Darth, so watch out the “crazies and scumbags” are coming to Canberra and may their freak flag fly long and LOUD! So long Vader and keep on ranting, it’s what you do best!

    • Dash says:

      05:31pm | 19/08/11

      OK guys, I don’t really care! I’m glad she’s bringing your party down. If you think Gillard and the ALP are not marginalising themselves to the left fine. But I can tell you, IMHO the ALPs primary is under 30% for a reason and that reason is the way they have moved away from the centre and are ignoring the greater will of the majority.

      You try to blame Abbott for it, or say it’s the media or radio personalities. But they are just excuses blinding you to the reality of the situation.

      @John - mate I don’t follow anyone. But I do distrust and dislike Gillard very much. And that is because of what she has done. And I think the ALP are a pack of morons. For example, introducing an ETS which will force our wealth overseas to line the pockets of shonky carbon credit salesman is stupidity of the highest order! I cannot see why anyone would want to follow them after they have been so crap. But apparently they still have 28% of the voting population willing to support them.

    • Vader says:

      06:57pm | 19/08/11

      @Damocles - How do you type with all the drool getting over the keyboard?

    • andye says:

      11:42am | 23/08/11

      @Dash - You seem quite focused on calling the PM a commie. Lets take the Carbon Tax as our example policy, seeing as it is the most contentious.

      Can someone explain to me how the Labor policy is less traditionally conservative than the Liberal one? Because it seems to be the other way around to me. You might disagree with the policy, but the name calling is getting a bit ridiculous and nonsensical.

    • Garry says:

      06:46am | 19/08/11

      If you think these rally’s are fully of whacko’s then you should go to Europe and the US and compare it to some of their rally’s.
      Also the media like to portray these rally’s as only attended by whacko’s, lead by Tony Abbott. Anyone notice how channel 7 used only the ditch the witch flag and any other nasty/crazy sign they could focus on and even managed to get Abbott in a position for a photo at a long shot to be in the same picture.
      And Penbo this is Friday and your still trying to get Abbott more bad publicity and whip up more hysteria about him for attending this rally. If Abbott blew his nose you would be writing something negative about it.
      At the end of the day, he probably would be better to not attend as people like you and channel 7 are hell bent on discrediting him at any opportunity, and these rally’s are just an avenue for you to try and do so.
      “Is there anything we can do to help you Prime Minister?” (using Mark Riley’s words.) Keep helping her Penbo, but you need to try harder because it’s not working. Good Luck!

    • Liz says:

      08:42am | 19/08/11

      Yes Penbo what are you going to do when he wins the next election and becomes the prime minister with Barnaby Joyce as his deputy PM. Both educated at the prestigious Sydney School St Ignatius Riverview.

      And Gillard will be written down in history as the first female PM that nobody wanted but was forced upon us by Bob Brown and a few independents who will loose their seats at the next election.

    • acotrel says:

      08:57am | 19/08/11

      @Garry
      Years ago when Menzies spoke at the Caulfield Town Hall there was a noisy expression of dissent.  He held the microphone, and used it to good effect,saying things like ‘just listen to this rabble’.  Things haven’t changed much when we have Abbott using a mob of ratbags to his own advantage.  The trouble is that he is empowering them, and that’s irresponsible, and dangerous.  The price of things going wrong when he does that, is too high.

    • Wendy says:

      09:23am | 19/08/11

      Acotrel - irresponsible and dangerous? Who’s trying to stir up hysteria Acrotel?
      What are these irrisponsible and dangerous ratbags going to do? Wave a sign around in the air?

    • Bev says:

      09:28am | 19/08/11

      @acotrel Tony doesn’t have to empower them they have done that themselves since the vast majority at that rally are your normally invisible average voter.  As will the convoy of trucks arriving monday from all over Australia just trying to live average lives. Are they all loonies too?

    • over it says:

      10:36am | 19/08/11

      Bev i am really looking forward to the convoy of trucks next week,  wonder how they will be labelled in articles like this.  i watched bits and pieces of the rally and all i saw were average fed up people making a stand.

    • Bev says:

      11:25am | 19/08/11

      over it says:10:36am | 19/08/11
      I read something in the papers today.  ACT police are expecting gridlock and advising people to make alternate arangements.  Apparently the police have asigned an officer to coordinate with the convoy organizers.  The organizers have stressed they want it to be peaceful.  That however won’t stop the left labeling them as bogans, the great unwashed and the dregs of the working class and any other monicker they can come up with. It Will be interesting.

    • John Taylor says:

      12:27pm | 19/08/11

      I tend to judge the merits of a person’s political argument on whether they know how to use an apostrophe.  No idea = Whacko.

      Sorry Garry

    • JohnB says:

      07:07am | 19/08/11

      What a great article.

      Perspectives I hadn’t considered….... I can see people are frustrated and if most of us could find a means of sensible protest we’d do it; such as writing on the punch….People don’t walk to Canberra or spend their own money to travel long distances because they’re nutters….They’re bloody angry with what these politicians are doing to Australia.

      I’m tired of the likes of acotrel stating I’m some kind of LNP champion. I’m not. I don’t like any policies presently on the table in any party of Australia. They’re all coming from self interest as opposed to the benefit of Australia.

      Maybe it’s time we had some very big protests to see if we can promote change. The problem is, the crowd also has, as their prime motive individual vested interest.

      It’s frustrating to watch Australia go down the nutter paths of the most powerful people in Australia with their very own vested interests at heart…..Australian politics is one very big mess. These protesters understandably want to see change.

    • acotrel says:

      07:27am | 19/08/11

      @JohnB
      If you have any good constructive ideas - let’s hear them ? Otherwise don’t whinge when others don’t provide what you expect !

    • JohnB says:

      08:11am | 19/08/11

      I’ve got a million sensible ideas acotrel. All of which I’ve presented on The Punch, all of which you have a problem with because they don’t fit your socialist, ideology model. .....That model has dismally failed and is presently exploding before your eyes; it must be very frustrating for you.

    • acotrel says:

      09:21am | 19/08/11

      @JohnB
      We still haven’t had a revolution due to the effects of the failure of the free market (the GFC), so the ALP must be doing something right? A minute ago the LNP were bullshitting on about ‘debt levels’ and proposing belt tightening.  Was that the correct strategy in your opinon? I’d point out that the irties depression was deeper, and lasted longer in Australia, than in a ny other country in the world.  Was this due to the belt-tightening strategy of Otto Niemeyer who represented the Bank of England,  being adopted by the conservatives? Just be grateful you still have a livelihood! If the alternative approach had happened we could have all ended up stuffed!

    • Anubis says:

      10:02am | 19/08/11

      @ acotrel - “so the ALP must be doing something right?”

      Could you please explain even one thing that the ALP is doing right?

      I really can’t find anything to support that statement of yours.

    • Chris_D says:

      10:55am | 19/08/11

      @JohnB, I feel your pain, as do those who take protesting as their means of expressing their pain and frustration.

      There are many ways to make a statement besides arguing with others on The Punch.  This does nothing.

      Personally, I organised a letter “bombardement” to the Gov-Gen to “raise awareness” of how angry people were witht he current state of Australian politics.  The support from other people and parties was dismal.  People were all for joining my email list, but when i explained to them that they would have to actually write/print a letter, sign it and post it to make it official, most couldn;t be bothered. 

      I even sent an email to Tony Abbott advising him of my intentions, and they only reply I received from his office was a link to his budget reply speech.  They didn’t even acknowledge what I was trying to do.

      Apathy is the greatest problem confronting the Australian people.  At least the “freaks and flat-earthers” the author talks about have the motivation to actually get off their asses and try to be heard.  And they are being heard.

    • Andrew says:

      11:32am | 19/08/11

      I like the plain packaging for ciggies legislation

    • Anubis says:

      11:46am | 19/08/11

      @ Andrew - wasted effort. Cigarette cases are making a comeback, not just the fancy ones but for a couple of dollars you can get quite a functional non-descript plastic one. The ciggy packet just slips straight in. How many millions in staff time has been wasted on this one ? And wait for the court costs when the industry runs with it’s restriction of copyright/trademark court cases.

    • n_dude says:

      12:47pm | 19/08/11

      Agreed as well. I am hoping there is enough of us to get the message across to the mainstream leaders (including the Greens). I also fear the consequences of this as it may mean more independents in parliament who tend to have either self or constituency rather than national interests.

    • PTom says:

      01:41pm | 19/08/11

      It is funny how everyone talks about vested interested and then only refer to the left. 

      Who keeps calling for a election? Yet has no policies.
      Who called this government illegitimate? yet could become PM form one byelection.

    • PTom says:

      01:52pm | 19/08/11

      Anubis,
      It still requires the you to go to the counter and say “I want that olive green box of smokes, no not that one, the one with the rotten teeth because I am pregnent.”

    • Andrew says:

      02:16pm | 19/08/11

      If it wasn’t going to hurt then financially then the cigarette companies wouldn’t have opposed it.

    • Andrew says:

      03:11pm | 19/08/11

      Round 1 of the stimulus against the GFC was a success and had bi-partisan support.

    • thatmosis says:

      07:10am | 19/08/11

      Oh dear trying to defend the indefensible. At least Tony listens to the people unlike a certain red headed witch who thinks only of herself and how to stay in power. From this weeks statements backing her minister who payed for prostitutes with his union credit card it is easy to see that she will do anything and say anything to stay in power whatever the cost to Australians.
        Good try Penbo but no cigar, go back to your comrades and get some more spin and try again as we all love your little pieces that you put on paper or the internet, keeps us entertained for ages and just shows the mind set of yourself and like minded people who will not learn from their mistakes..

    • acotrel says:

      08:15am | 19/08/11

      @Thatmosis
      ‘At least Tony listens to the people unlike a certain red headed witch who thinks only of herself and how to stay in power. ‘

      I love your comment !  When does ‘listens to the people’  become ‘cultivates loonies’? I suggest he is there already !

    • JohnB says:

      09:01am | 19/08/11

      @thatmosis….“shows the mind set of yourself and like minded people who will not learn from their mistakes”

      hear hear…..That’s the problem in a nutshell….No one’s learning from past mistakes…..OR….The mistakes of other countries.

    • Ditz says:

      09:13am | 19/08/11

      You are deluded if you think that Tony Abbot actually cares what the people think. He is just pretending to because he sees it as the quickest way to the power he seems to believe is his birthright. If you really thought about it critically you would see that he is manipulating people for his own gain.

    • fml says:

      11:20am | 19/08/11

      Ditz,

      Birth right, thats the terrible nature of the opposition, when ascending to an elected position is seen as manifest destiny as opposed to being earnt. What has Tony abbott actually done to deserve the position other than what his supporters think which is he deserves it because Jillard doesnt?

    • JohnB says:

      01:37pm | 19/08/11

      I don’t get this dislike of Abbott. What’s he done wrong?

      Sure he’s negative. Who wouldn’t be. It’s absolutely frustrating to watch Australia being destroyed.

      Do you all really think a man of Turnbull’s intellect believes a carbon tax is going to be an effective way to fix the planet? I don’t think so!!!!!!!

      There’s some other motive….....

      Always process someone’s opinion through the self-interest filter before you consider it seriously…....

    • TChong says:

      07:10am | 19/08/11

      I’m waiting for Abbott to explain how he can be the farmers friend, while running erands for the miners.

    • acotrel says:

      08:09am | 19/08/11

      @T.Chong
      The LNP is ‘all things to all people’ !  It’s sort of similar to Sharman Stone keeping her ‘friendship’ with the farmers of the Goulburn Valley, while explaing why we should stuff our whole export trade with New Zealand over fire blight!

    • Tedd says:

      08:22am | 19/08/11

      The explanation will be a product of the thinking - “double think” - so will be double talk.

    • Damocles says:

      08:42am | 19/08/11

      Hey Chongy, I’m waiting for Gillard to explain how she can be the Australian families friend, while taxing them out of existence!

    • Mother says:

      08:43am | 19/08/11

      Hello, when he becomes PM he works to get a balance for all the people not just one group.

    • MDG says:

      11:29am | 19/08/11

      Mother- but in order to become PM, he’ll say whatever he has to say to suck up to the audience he happens to be talking to at the time.  Farmers, Alan Jones, mining bosses, whoever it takes.  That’s the problem.  I also like the way that Abbott supporters seem content to support their man in the belief that Abbott in government will be different from Abbott in opposition while also excoriating Labor for not crossing every ‘t’ and dotting every ‘i’ of everything they’ve ever said on anything.

    • Ray says:

      07:18am | 19/08/11

      2 of my sons and a friend, who are hard working self employed people, gave up a day to attend the anniversary of a big lie, they are not whacko , they truly believe that this labour government does not have a mandate to bring in this tax, also that it is based on lies and deceit, they would normally get on with working to keep their families fed and housed and like the silent majority complain about bad government at home or around the BBQ. and just get on with their lives. If people like this are getting vocal and active maybe things might change , I am also a member of the Silent majority and would have joined them but for baby sitting so that they could attend

    • Andrew Martin says:

      11:36am | 19/08/11

      Correct spelling and syntax will avoid the embarrassment of having your argument glossed over due to its appearance of being written by an illiterate.  Getting several thousand Chicken Little clones to a shouting match does not make it a credible uprising.  I would be confident that if a straw poll was held of those in attendance, the vast majority would not be able to explain the mechanisms of the proposed policy.  Instead they have been whipped up by the usual right fringe dwellers in Bolt, Akerman, Devine and Jones whose abilities to inflame the xenophobia of the weakest minds are second to none.  If you are going to oppose something then please do, but ensure you have some information at hand to support your decision. 

      I dispute the fact that so many ‘average’ Australians were in attendance at this rally.  I would like to think the average Australian can spell and string coherent sentences together, and there has not been any evidence on this blog or in photos to suggest that many there can accomplish these two elementary tasks.

    • Martin says:

      02:11pm | 19/08/11

      @Andrew Martin
      Cheaps shots and petty snobbery re spelling and syntax on a blog like the punch is a laugh.  If you think that using that tripe as a put down works then you are deluded. The only thing you are doing is making yourself look like a small minded twerp.

      As for your ramble of nonsense, if you had taken the time to read Ray’s contribution rather than getting all wound up about spelling (LMAO), you may have got the simple message that the people that are attending the rallies are your everyday Australian, not the “rednecks and weirdos” that you would like to suggest.

      Your rant about “Bolt, Ackermen and Devine” gives you away as a narrow minded, left wing fringe dweller that does nothing more than parrot the views expoused by the likes of Get Up.  As does your attempt at intellectual snobbery, refering to those at the rally not being able to string a coherent sentence together. How would you know, honestly and how dare you arrogantly presume such a position.

    • Andrew Martin says:

      08:03am | 20/08/11

      @Martin - your amusing little note only serves to highlight my point that those in support of this circus have little to no understanding of what they are angry about, and instead of arguing on fact they resort to your tactics of assuming my position and playing the man accordingly.  Here is something that you may have missed the day they taught comprehension, so re-read my comments again.  You do not need to be a card carrying lefty or ALP’er (of which I am neither) to find the views and actions of Bolt, Akerman, Devine or Jones as abhorrent.  They are not mainstream nor do they represent middle Australia.  They are as far right as Sydney is to Perth, and in my opinion, anyone who agrees with their core values are as bat shit crazy as them as fact never gets in the way of a good sensationalist rant.

      As for the peoples poor spelling and grammar, we live in an age with spell checking as a tool.  It’s lazy and a sign of limited intelligence and care, and I will give it the same indifference as the author did in writing it.  And why is it always those from the right edges that can’t seem to spell?  It’s pointless getting angry at me because I am educated.  It won’t change yours or my station for one moment, so build a bridge my son.  Call me whatever names you want, it’s water off a ducks back when it comes from a person of your obvious capabilities.  Thanks for the laugh mate.

    • acotrel says:

      07:19am | 19/08/11

      When I hear wacky stuff from those sorts of people, I never laugh.  Like the story that John Howard arranged the Port Arthur massacre ‘so he could get our guns away from us’.  The claim is that Martin Bryant wasn’t the killer - it was trained SAS personnel, substantiated ‘because no looney could shoot so many people with such precision, in such a short time’ !
      The worrying thing is that this garbage has a following of believers, who also subscribe to the conspiracy theories about global control by commie (and other) manipulators.
      It’s a serious matter, which should concern us all, when our political leaders begin to cultivate such groups.

    • Peter Yo says:

      08:59am | 19/08/11

      I don’t really know why the Port Arthur Massacre happened. But i find it very hard to believe that some one with the intelligence of my 11 year old brother and low cognetive skills could shoot i believe it was 19 people in the head in such a short time whilst displaying skills at that time known only to those who have been military trained.
      He wasnt given a fair trial at all and a lot of coincidences that dont add up is just a bit too fishy for me.
      Dont get me wrong, i mean no disrespect to anyone involved in the massacre (may they rest in peace) but a lot of things dont add up and it really does worry me.

    • Brian Taylor says:

      09:14am | 19/08/11

      acotrel, the way you carry on fool reminds me of a little puppy dog who sits at his master’s feet (labor) and begs to be noticed.
      Do you work at all or do the labor party pay your wages?
      either way, you’re coming across as a sad excuse for a human
      I might not be right all the time when I make a comment, but at least I’ve got the balls to use my real name .

    • Hugo says:

      10:16am | 19/08/11

      I agree with you acotrel. One of the big gaps I see between reality and perception is this idea that governments are actually cartoon style supervillans. Does anyone seriously think John Howard sat their twirling his moustache, doing the shifting eyes thing and coming up with ways to kill people who are just going about their lives? Doesn’t he have anything better to do even if he was secretly Dr. Evil? First question, how the heck do you recruit enough people who are willing to deliberately kill citizens? How would the conversation go “Hello Colonel, it’s the Prime Minister here – I need at least five sociopathic people who somehow passed the army entrance exams to go kill some citizens? No I’m serious. Hello? Hello? Hmmm he hung up. I’ll just go back to controlling everyone’s thoughts…….

    • Joan says:

      07:26am | 19/08/11

      Those ` freaks, fascists and flat-earthers` aren’t as scarey and have less negative effect on the economic and the social life of Australians , than the misfits and clowns running the country- Gillard and her Team of cornballs Brown, Oakeshott, Windsor. Wilke, Swan, Flannery-  the would be CO2 busters . Bunch of freaks outside the house, bunchof cornball mistfits inside the house- Abbott speaks to both. - good on him he speaks to all

    • acotrel says:

      08:24am | 19/08/11

      @Joan
      I find them pretty scary when they give credence to theories which are obviously rubbish.  That are so unlikely to be true, that their belief borders on total delusion.  Neither Gillard or Abbott or indeed any other member of parliament fits that mould - they wouldn’t last a minute.  But in saying that, it doesn’t discount the danger.  It’s happened before, many times, where a total ratbag has gained power, and pulled whole nations to ruin. The Tea Party in the US has that potential.

    • HappyCynic says:

      08:43am | 19/08/11

      All except the people who actually matter when it comes time for an election.  Abbott is too busy preaching to the hardcore converted and too nuts to realise it’s going to hurt him at the next election.

      If he’d just address the silent and discontented majority with a decent alternative policy or two he’d deservedly knock Gillard out in a f**king landslide.

      But like all crazy people he’s only really comfortable speaking to other crazy people.

    • Martin says:

      02:54pm | 19/08/11

      Alcotrel and HappyCynic. Bulldust. You are just on here running along with the usual Labor party dribble that anyone that opposes the Carbon Tax must be a loony. Come on. We have had this out on here over and over. There have been the arguments about the science, and sorry for Ms Gillard and Combet etc, the science is NOT in. Then we have had the argument about the actual effect of the tax on CO2 emissions,  highly questionable whether the tax will have any effect at all. So all thats left for the Labor drones is to call those opposing the tax, “weirdos and rednecks”. We have had 3 articles in 2 days running with the notion that everyone attending the rallies must be “flat earthers” and the like. Smacks of desperation for mine.

    • Super D says:

      07:30am | 19/08/11

      After the next election when picking over the ALP corpse there will be stories like “How the ALP turned its back on Australia” etc.  No doubt some journo will even note that the decimated ALP should have payed particular attention to the Carbon Tax rallies.

      I meandered past one of the carbon tax rallies in Sydney.  I saw freaks and wierdos.  Exactly the same sort of freaks and wierdos I would normally see in a shopping centre outside the inner suburbs.

      Penbo needs to get out more.

    • Brisjack says:

      07:31am | 19/08/11

      Ever attended a union rally?
      You are spending too much time at home.  Open the windows, extend your circle of friends, include a few ‘ordinary people”

    • Hugo says:

      10:20am | 19/08/11

      I spent sometime at a union rally last year. They did a free sausage sizzle and a lady stood their talking about unacceptable delays in getting people the back pay owed to them. If had got anymore lively a funeral might have broken out.

    • Fiddler says:

      07:33am | 19/08/11

      Not the silent majority? Last time I heard the carbon tax had a support level of around 30% and was opposed by over 60% (it’s been a few weeks since I saw a poll published).
      If you require some assistance on what a majority is Penbo I can point you in the direction of a good maths tutor.

    • Jay Santos says:

      07:34am | 19/08/11

      NEWSFLASH…David Penberthy is a Warmist Proselyte.

      Who knew!

      Next.

    • acotrel says:

      07:37am | 19/08/11

      @Penbo
      ‘Scientists can no longer be trusted’

      I’m a scientist - can I be trusted? - HILARIOUS !!
      There was a bloke who worked in one of the laboratories under my control who wore a badge saying ‘trust me, I’m a doctor’.  I think he did it for the benefit of ladies working with us.

    • fml says:

      11:29am | 19/08/11

      I know, you have to seriously be worried when the supporters of a political group say scientists cannot be trusted. What’s next? replace the minister for innovation with a preacher?

      The picking and choosing of science based on political agenda is a dangerous path.

    • n_dude says:

      03:55pm | 19/08/11

      What about economists?

    • fml says:

      05:44pm | 19/08/11

      Depends which country they are from, Would you trust an English or American Economist?

    • Chris L says:

      10:53am | 20/08/11

      I think this is how they’re earning the “flat Earther” epithet.

    • Dash says:

      07:38am | 19/08/11

      Penbo you are right. The silent majority were not at the rally. We were all working.

      Given your comments that the majority stay silent, Gillard and the ALP must be completely screwed now!

      When the nutters and their friends from the gun lobby marched on Canberra, John Howard had the decency to meet them and address them. Where was Gillard?

      When the Nauru solution was put in place, the nutters from Get-Up and the lefty greens marched in the streets. Now the Gillard government has a far worse Malaysian agreement, where are they? Nowhere to be seen. Pack of lefty hypocrites!

      You may prefer the union and Get-up rent-a-crowd all waving professionally printed flags and placards at members expense. I’d suggest when conservatives decide to rally, something is seriously wrong with the government!

      There are loonies in many walks of life, it would appear the media is not amune.

    • acotrel says:

      08:35am | 19/08/11

      @Dash
      ‘When the nutters and their friends from the gun lobby marched on Canberra, John Howard had the decency to meet them and address them. Where was Gillard?’

      It was John Howard’s problem, and anyway Gillard was probably still in nappies.  If it happened today, Julia wouldn’t out the front of parliament house inciting the gun lobby to try and topple Howard.  Some people act responsibly, and support sensible change!

    • AdamC says:

      10:16am | 19/08/11

      I wonder whether, if these climate change protesters acted more like the familiar, left-wing protesters by smashing stuff, abusing police and throwing ball bearings under their horses, the like of our Penbo would give them less attention? I suspect it is the novelty of (relatively) moderate, mainly middle class people adopting the protest tactics of radicals that the media seems to find so alien and confronting.

      That was certainly the case with the allegedly ‘ultra-conservative’ Tea Party in the US. The liberal media had a brain malfunction at the notion of typical Americans actually being passionate about their causes and making their views clear just as obnoxiously as, for example, the unions typically do. Their sneering abuse didn’t make the Tea Party go away, of course.

    • Hamish says:

      11:58am | 19/08/11

      I’m very disappointed with this effort from Penbo. All protests involve a fringe element. A lot, which never get any media coverage, are just fringe element, but they’re all left wing loonies so they’re acceptable. Only right wing loonies deserve any media coverage.

      You’re very right AdamC. Perhaps if instead of just making largely accurate statements like ‘Ju-Liar is Bob Brown’s bitch’ which easily stands up to scrutiny and is, in fact, completely true, they should throw a few urine filled baloons at police women and then argue in court that they should escape conviction so they can enter legal practice (actual case - I shit you not).

      The desperation of the global media to demonise peaceful, and generally eminently sensible, right-wing protest is really inexplicable. It’s also completely counter-productive as has been seen with the Tea Party.

    • AdamC says:

      12:30pm | 19/08/11

      I agree, Hamish. Of course, what is most remarkable about the carbon tax protesters - aside from their mere existence - is how civilised they are. Sure, there may be some nasty placards, but there hasn’t been any violence. That’s their problem:

      “What, a genuinely non-violent protest? Not a ‘the cops started it protest’, but actually one where the participants didn’t damage anything or throw things? They must be a bunch of loooooooonies!”

    • n_dude says:

      03:58pm | 19/08/11

      THe issue is not the protest or the fringe element, but Tony Abbott’s decision to join the protest. If it was a bunch of left wing anarchists I doubt you would see the leader of the Labor party out there. Mind you the Greens may be a different story…

    • Dash says:

      05:41pm | 19/08/11

      @acotrel, you misunderstand me. Where was Gillard this week. She didn’t have the balls to face the protest like Howard did with the gun lobby. That was the point I made.

      And where are the hypocrites from Get-up and the union movement that marched against the Nauru policy?? Now that the ALP is opening manus Island, building detention centres and sending children to Malaysia which is not a signatory to the UN treaty, they seem to have gone missing?? Very interesting! Gillard is implementing a policy worse than the one she oposed in opposition.

      Penbo seems to want a Union or Get-up rent-a-crowd instead of real people at protests. Perhaps he likes the colorful flags and placards printed with members union fees?

    • MetalRat says:

      07:44am | 19/08/11

      Penbo, from the way your article is phrased it is obvious that you are a Labor supporter, perhaps you should have declared this in the caveats. The circumstances did not force Gillard to break her promise, in the RealPolitik terms of Kissenger even if she had kept her promise of no carbon tax the Greens would not have bought her down!

    • crizza says:

      08:45am | 19/08/11

      Penbo a labor supporter! Give us a break.

    • Brian Taylor says:

      07:45am | 19/08/11

      downtrodden, desperate and dispossessed, freaks and flat-earthers
      what gives you the right to call anyone names who doesn’t like getting ripped off by another useless tax David?
      go back to your labor paymasters and tell them they’re gone mate
      can’t wait for the next election to see your smug smile wiped off your face pal.

    • Shane says:

      02:10pm | 19/08/11

      @Brian Taylor - I guess you’re tired from being at the rally yesterday.
      LOON.

    • Martin says:

      04:33pm | 19/08/11

      Oh, very intelligent Shane “LOON”!!! Very effective. Just another Labor goose showing their incredible ability to look stupid.

    • Chris_D says:

      07:48am | 19/08/11

      The fact that people are going to such extremes to get their message across shows how bitter and angry they are at being disenfranchised by their “elected representatives”.  Labelling the protesters is not the answer.

    • Brisfem says:

      07:49am | 19/08/11

      How dare you call hard working aussies freaks.  I know a few of these people who went to the rally.  They are your every day working class citizens.  Your column is sickening.  Typical Labor supporter.  You don’t agree with them so you just sledge them.

    • fml says:

      11:38am | 19/08/11

      Right, so when there is a left protest, they are not all called jobless hippy socialists?

    • Mattb says:

      04:00pm | 19/08/11

      @brisfem

      Read the article again and when you come to this paragraph

      “Let’s insert a couple of quick caveats here. Everyone who attended these rallies is obviously entitled to hold the views of their choice. And many of the people who attended this rally, and the first one, were salt-of-the-earth punters with a legitimate and sensibly-expressed beef against the government of the day.”

      think about what Pembo is saying when he wrote it, read it slowly, a few times over if you have to. Then pull your foot out of your mouth.

      Ha, no wonder these right wingers can’t get their heads around a price on carbon policy, they can’t even read and respond to a simple punch article without fucking it up…..

    • calculon says:

      07:51am | 19/08/11

      “Many of them were also barking mad.”

      Ah yes, and have you ever been to a greenie event, a Getup! event or a “We want a Carbon Tax ” rally?

      Now that’s where you get all the mad ones, ferals and nutters.

    • jf says:

      11:25am | 19/08/11

      There are freaks, conspiracy theorists and nutcases on the fringes of both sides of politics.

      During the course of being the leader of Australia’s conservative party, Tony Abbott necessarily comes across those on the fringes of the right.

      Sadly for Australia, Julia Gillard chose to form a government with those on the fringes of the left.

    • Brian says:

      07:52am | 19/08/11

      You are 100% right David, the silent majority of Australians are just that,  silent…..........But you can bet we will not be silent come Election day, The upcoming Qld election will give you an Idea of what is about to happen to your precious Labor party…more of the same that happened in NSW I suspect.

    • Robin says:

      07:53am | 19/08/11

      Very disappointed in your take on the rally David.
      Why must you label these people freaks and flat earthers?
      The rally was full of ordinary people who have had enough of Julia and her minority government. This new tax will do so much harm. She should take it to an election and let us have our say.

    • Martin says:

      04:38pm | 19/08/11

      Well said Robin. He has a hide to say that about these people.  It is standard Labor policy to call anyone opposing the tax these names

    • Tony says:

      07:56am | 19/08/11

      Written and authorised by the Australian Greens - lights out!

    • MDG says:

      11:31am | 19/08/11

      Penbo a Greens supporter?  You’re off the planet!  Go through The Punch archives and find his writings on the Greens to see what he actually believes before you start imagining reasons to dislike him.  The extent to which Right-wingers leap to conclusions about anyone who isn’t in lockstep with them, personally, is astonishing.

    • Matt says:

      07:58am | 19/08/11

      ‘card-carrying, rolled-gold, fully paid-up fruitcakes’  sums them up nicely, judging by the picture I doubt there’s a full mouthful of teeth in any of them..  Abbott is trying and failing to be the people’s bitch, swinging any way they blow hoping only to be liked a little bit by anyone, failing while acting like the dopey idiot he is..

    • Kurisu Sonsaku says:

      09:20am | 19/08/11

      How sad that you hold your fellow Australians in such contempt, obviously you have nothing to contribute to this debate other than juvenile scribblings.

    • Matt says:

      12:42pm | 19/08/11

      What a pathetic comment Kurisu.. Look above and below - my ‘fellow’ Australians are name calling each other everywhere, yet I don’t see your pathetic little whimper under their insults.

      I call it how I see it - look at the picture, I think Penbo got it right.

      And I’d rather my ‘juvenile scribblings’ to your pathetic attempt at a put down.  And where exactly is your contribution Kurisu you hypocrite?

    • chipmonk says:

      03:42pm | 19/08/11

      I was there, and i can assure you i have all my teeth as do my two work colleagues who joined me. We chose to close our office for the day so that we could attend and i am proud that we did. Name calling is the last resort of the beaten in any argument. I happen to believe in climate change, i also believe in accountable government which is why i attended. Yes a few attendees were a little unhinged, but by my reckoning so will many more australians be by the time this labor government is through.

    • The Badger says:

      04:20pm | 19/08/11

      I was there too, but only to take photos of the raving lunatics for later use.
      Like when they lash out with their right wing hate in earnest.

      Ps - I only saw one chipmonk and he was wearing budgie smugglers and a boatphone.
      I saw NO chipmunks.

    • Matt says:

      08:41pm | 19/08/11

      Congratulations on having all your teeth chipmonk?

    • BrisJack says:

      08:00am | 19/08/11

      Nothing new here,  you are repeating the Goverment’s pathetic lines, you are being brainwashed. 
      NO,  not Freaks and flat- earthers.

      “We lined up five-deep from 6.30am, waiting to catch a bus to Canberra from Hornsby. A few had been to earlier anti-carbon tax rallies but in the main, like me, the people on my bus were first-timers. There were lots of small business owners who would be adversely affected by the tax - paying higher prices without compensation. There was a fifth-generation baker, a retired lawyer, a factory worker manufacturing PVC pipes, an orthopaedic surgeon, a computer engineer and a liquor store owner”

    • FlapJack says:

      09:06am | 19/08/11

      Did you have a candlestick maker on your bus?

      Freaks and fringe dwellers they were.

    • Spikey says:

      08:00am | 19/08/11

      I look forward to the same scrutiny being applied to the crowd next time there’s a rally against a conservative Government or policy.

      There will always be a “nutter” element to any public gathering…but the way the media has tagged the attendees of this particular rally is appalling.

      The vast majority of people there were just concerned Aussies.  I can’t believe a journo is advocating that our politicians should not attend rallies and address the public in this way, for fear of association.

    • Knemon says:

      01:14pm | 19/08/11

      “There will always be a “nutter” element to any public gathering” - Exactly Spikey.

      “but the way the media has tagged the attendees of this particular rally is appalling” – Does it really matter Spikey?

      I’ve been to Green rallies where a broad cross section of the community were represented but they were still referred to as ‘unwashed feral stinking hippy socialists’ Etc., some of them may have been but the majority were not, the majority were decent hard working people who were simply concerned about environmental issues, or whatever.

      It’s nothing but childish name calling, so bloody what? If I’m passionate about the cause, I couldn’t give a damn what they call me. Talk about sticks and stones… I can’t believe the response to this article, are conservatives really that precious?

    • Andrew says:

      08:07am | 19/08/11

      Obviously these rally’s cause damage to the Gillard label, that’s why Penbo is in damage control.

    • JustMEinT says:

      08:10am | 19/08/11

      you say:  We’re one of the most politically inactive countries on earth.
      That may well have been the way it was - times are a changing folks.

      We have been far too complacent for too long and that has got us into the darn mess we are in now. If we don’t fight this now (no longer silent) we have no one else to blame. We do NOT have to fight this with hands and fists… FEET and MOUTHS will do the trick.

      Darn politicians think they rule us when in fact we pay them to represent us - represent folks - look it up in a dictionary.

      We give them a high percentage of our hard earned wages (tax dollars) and what do they do with it. Screw us and pay themselves a higher wage!

      Time for a cool change - fire the buggers…... lets have this election and show them they are not immortal gods, merely flesh and blood lemmings… and like all rodents they too can be trapped and eliminated.

      I hope real people, voters et all will stand up and be counted NOW when it counts. And the author of this piece needs to remember he too is a mere mortal!

    • engineer says:

      08:16am | 19/08/11

      I think the point your missing is this:

      The last election there was howling discontent from all sides of politics about how soulless and sanitised the politicians had become. They say nothing controversial, they stand for nothing, all for fear of offending.

      It is one of the great things about Australia that we have our share of fruitcakes.

      I for one find it refreshing that Mr Abbott is allowing a little humanity back into the stage managed media image our politicians have polished so very very white. I suppose I’m old enough to remember when Australians felt strongly about political philosophies and the direction our country was taking. Right or wrong I prefer it to worrying only about your mortgage repayments and how much pork is on offer.

    • TChong says:

      08:21am | 19/08/11

      Broken promises?
      Who, dear fellow Punchers first introduced the concept of “core"and “non core” promises?
      Anyone remember? C’mon guys, Abbott was part of this govt, ( hence his prediliction for “Core “and “non core” lies )
      Yes, thats ( far) Right !
      Howard and the LNP !
      Short memories and hysterical hypocrasy - pre reqs to be a LNP cheer- leader.

    • Liz says:

      09:09am | 19/08/11

      We had savings in the form of a future fund under Howard. Now that is all gone under Labor Gillard/ Rudd and we have a debt that needs a new tax to use to fix the budget black whole.

      1000 people will loose their job at Qantas, SPC is closing factories, NZ apples will kill the Australian apple industry…....................short memories!

      Gillard lied to us on public TV and is now forcing a carbon tax on us that will continue to drive jobs OS and leaves Australians unemployed.

    • Anubis says:

      10:13am | 19/08/11

      So Chongy, what you are saying is that because the LNP set the rpecedent it is fine for Labor to drop all morals and play follow the leader. What Howard did, or didn’t do, has no bearing on the incompetence and deceit of the current Government. It is what is happening now that is of concern, not what happened during the Howard years, or the Keating years or even the Barton days.

      We have a bunch of misfits and clowns who are hell bent on screwing Australia and you try to justify this by sticking your thumbs in your ears, waggling your fingers and saying Nah, Nah, Nah Johnny Howard did this and Johnny Howard did that so why can’t Gillard?

      The woman is morally bereft, can not be trusted on a single thing that comes out of her mouth, is unable to formulate, let alone implement policy that is in the best interest of the country and is hell-bent on turning Australia into her idea of the Fabianistic utopia that was drummed into her in the many years up to 2002 when she cancelled her membership.

    • Tator says:

      09:04pm | 19/08/11

      Core and non core promises,
      Yep, Howard did not fulfill all election promises after the 1996 election.  Reason why, when he and the Coalition Cabinet examined the Treasury reports on the state of the budget, Howard found that instead of a balanced budget as announced by Keating and his treasurer , he had an underlying deficit of $10 billion dollars and a net government debt of $96 billion.
      Howard had pledged to keep the budget in balanceduring the election and to keep other promises meant he wouldn’t have been able to do that.    Even after discarding the non core promises, it took Howard 2 years to get the budget back in the black.

    • iansand says:

      08:23am | 19/08/11

      I would like to see the placards the flacks rejected.  There must have been some doozies.

    • cathy says:

      08:25am | 19/08/11

      I dont vote along party lines, I vote based on which party I believe has the best policies and best leaders.  God knows how I will vote next time.  I dont particularly think the current government is doing a good job, but Tony Abbot scares the bejesus out of me!  The truth is that if he weren’t the leader I would vote for the liberals in a heartbeat, but I think he is a nutter who represents nutters preferentially!
      We keep talking about this great carbon tax lie, as though Gillard was the first politician in history to do so - remember the GST anyone?  Also, I happen to think that the best people to give climate advice are actually trained climate scientists rather than journalists/conservative commentators etc who have no scientific training wahtsoever, but rather a handful of opinions from blogs to guide their opinions.  Is a carbon tax the best way? I dont know - but I think John Howard probably would have given us an ETS if he had been re-elected, given that that was what he (and Abbott) suggested at the time.  Is Abbott lying now that he doesn’t support a carbon tax/ETS?  How about his promise immediately after the last election to have a civil parliament and do politicking nicely - that lasted about 3 nanoseconds!
      I think next time I will do a donkey vote, since neither party is worth wasting my vote on!  My only hope is that perhaps if we wait another 2 years for an election then both parties will come to their senses and ditch their current leaders and give us better ones.  If we go to an early election then we are actually stuck with the status quo.

    • Anubis says:

      10:23am | 19/08/11

      I will repeat it again - the GST was proposed, formulated and presented to the Australian people as an election policy. Yes, John Howard actually had an election in order to seek a mandate for the GST. The GST actually replaced a raft of other taxes, most of which were invisible to the public because they were added on at stages throughout manufacture and wholesale. A lot of goods actually reduced in price as a result.

      So please stop parroting on about how the GST implementation s the same as this ridiculous pocketpicking tax that Gillard is proposing. She went to an election quite clearly saying “there will be no Carbon tax…”, this was echoed by Swan. They now propose to intrioduce the tax WITHOUT taking it to an election. Carbon Tax - GST, no comparison.

      ” Is a carbon tax the best way?” - maybe, maybe not - but not in the form that the Gillard government has proposed.  Treasury modelling shows that emissions will continue to increase, prices on everything will increase (more than the Government is telling you as the introduction price is higher than what the modelling was done on). Even if, by some fluke, they manage to reach the reduction of 160,000 tonnes of emissions the net effect on global temperatures would, using the IPCC’s own figures, be about one-4000th of a degree. Don’t see anything there that shows that this could be effective.

      Abbott is no better. He lies and cheats as well but, as the lesser of two evils that we are presented with I think LNP would be much more stable than anything the Greens and Labor have to offer.

    • Michael says:

      11:59am | 19/08/11

      @ Cathy If you ran your own business would you keep a manager that has proven ineffective because a new one may be worse? or would you give the new one a go, knowing you could sack them also if they were no good.

    • Knemon says:

      01:38pm | 19/08/11

      Hear hear Cathy - I agree with your sentiments except for the GST. (Explained by Anubis). Gillard did lie but so does Abbott, so what a great choice we have!

    • PTom says:

      02:22pm | 19/08/11

      Anubis,

      John Howard 1995.
      “There’s no way that GST will ever be part of our policy… NEVER EVER. It’s dead”
      After the election the Liberals then had a GST policy.
      Pre-election promise changed after the election yep no comparison.

      It even sound like the promise made about workchoices.

    • crizza says:

      08:43am | 19/08/11

      the larouche placard just bolsters my belief that the tea party is associated with all this (is this my consipiracy theory!?) - the spelling of the signs at the last rally were in american english, so perhaps many of these agitators have been looking to the US for their collatoral. Bit lazy really. One thing I’d like to make a point of is that Gillard’s change of stance on the carbon tax can’t be classified as deceit - the deceit would have to happen at the outset, not later. As we know, she had to change her position because of political circumstances (basically, she didn’t have the numbers). That’s an entirely different kettle of fish - and one the coalition backs by saying Bob Brown is running the country. Can’t have it both ways - either it was a deceitful plot by Gillard to lie and then bring in a carbon tax (albiet for only four years); or Bob’s forced her into it now he has the numbers. The fact that these are absolutely contradictory does not in any way mean they can’t be constantly sprouted by the coalition - logic certainly aint their strong point.

    • Anubis says:

      10:29am | 19/08/11

      @ crizza - You really buy that line that “she had to change her position because of political circumstances”. Under no circumstances would the Greens have sided with the LNP so Gillard combining with the Greens and Independents would have happened regardless of Carbon Tax. There was no one holding a gun to her head. All the back flip shows is a total lack of integrity. They put forward a plan to have a People’s Forum which included Environmental Scientists, to formulate Carbon Policy and then present the option to the 2013 election. No one forced her to change the plan. She and Swan saw a way to “seize the economic opportunity” of a Carbon Tax in order to help plug some of the financial holes they have created. It has nothing to do with the environment but everything to do with integrity (or the lack thereof). It will be detrimental to Australia - GDP is expected to reduce by $1 trillion dollars over ten years, it will stifle job creation for decades, and we are already starting to see massive job cuts right across Australia as companies start to prepare for the implimentation of this tax. 20,000 in Victoria in the last month, about the same in Queensland, and this is before it impacts.

    • LC says:

      12:15pm | 19/08/11

      Not to mention the decline in stockholder backing of companies which are essential to maintain Aussie manufacturing jobs…

    • Warwick says:

      01:53pm | 19/08/11

      Anubis, I suspect that you are correct to say that the Greens would never have joined the Lib coalition, but they could have refused to side with Gillard if she had refused to agree to a “carbon tax,”  thus precipitating another election. Probably Gillard decided that she would be disendorsed by the party if she were unable to cobble together an alliance, and then she would never have a shot at the Prime Ministership. Whether she had no intention of keeping her word when she gave the promise, or whether she decided later on to go back on her promise, she is still guilty of deception that she carried out in order to satisfy her own personal ambition.

    • Joan Bennett says:

      08:47am | 19/08/11

      Not all scientists are evil.  Just the ones that are bought and paid for by political interests…

    • Andrew says:

      11:48am | 19/08/11

      Ian Pilmer comes to mind.

    • Deepthinker says:

      08:49am | 19/08/11

      Tut! Tut!There must be somebody holier and wiser than thou, you didn’t vote for this mob ,Did You?

    • MarK says:

      08:51am | 19/08/11

      So this is the new attack point?

      To be pre warmist. To care enough to pay your way to Canberra on a weekday to show legitimate and obvious concern with a government that told a lie to scrape over the line at an election you must a “flat earther” or “barking mad”.

      let me remind you of a few things Penbo

      1. Barnaby Joyce was called worse than barking mad when he warned of the possibility of America defaulting on its debts - still waiting on the apology

      2. It was common consensus amongst the msm that any political party that did not have a AGW action policy or opposed the carbon tax or god forbid Denied would be wiped out

      All I see is another desperate attempt to smear people that hold contrary views.

      Is that all you guys are left with?

      All that crowd was doing was reacting to what the majority of people in this country want, namely, no carbon tax, not to be lied to, to be listened to and not to be treated like idiots.

      For that they get your scorn.

      Let me remind you that Labor is in coalition with The greens.

      You want crazy flat earth and insane I give you Lee Rhiannon. I am sure you will equally scathing on the unions on their next little soiree through Parliament house.

      What a joke.

      The warmists are getting desperate….I can smell their fear and boy does it smell good.

    • Bern says:

      08:58am | 19/08/11

      Penbo, time to realize that people like my sister mother of 4 who attended the first rally in Canberra is an ordinary Australian. She just didn’t have the energy to attend this one .

      I took 4 children to 2 rallies in Sydney and my sister took hers to one of those two. We didn’t go to this rally in Canberra because we were too busy changing the nappies of the future generations of Australian children.

      Time to be kind to ordinary Australian protesters who just won’t be able to afford the cost of living after the introduction of the carbon tax. What are we suppose to do? Sit in the dark, cold because we can’t afford heating, with piles of wet washing when it is raining outside because we can’t afford to use a dryer. Our children will be sick because we can’t afford to pay for hot water and the water to wash them.

      Sen. Bob Brown did say to turn out the lights. Does he realize when I rise to attend to a sick in the middle of the night I need the light to find the panadol? Or would he rather the child die from febrile convulsions because their temperature rises too quickly, he does push the anti-life policies and the tax on carbon to save the trees? And don’t worry I am not a looney, I have a friend whose child experienced this but was fortunately able to get medical help in time.

      I am just a very ordinary concerned mother who does not want a new tax wrapped up in the lie of carbon. In fact we just won’t be able to afford the cost of living in Australia, Miss Gillarad.

    • Jack Zedee says:

      09:01am | 19/08/11

      can you explain why the carbon policy was written by eugenacists and not environmental experts ?  why do the people who support this also support the Georgia Guidestones ( look it up )  its the agenda they want , look it up

      simple fact the PM lied , the greens are pushing the lies and we dont get a say thats not a democracy thats a dictatorship and hundreds of thousands of Aussies have fought against dictatorships and why we are free.

    • Zieder Zee says:

      12:51pm | 20/08/11

      Lunatic fringe calling for a look at conspiracies.
      Who’s got the time for your loonie theories?

    • MarkS says:

      09:02am | 19/08/11

      “downtrodden, desperate and dispossessed”

      You have a problem with the downtrodden, desperate & dispossessed do you. Seeing as they have less then others around them they tend to invent theories as to why.

      Many may be crazy, but it is far better that they are heard then ignored & insulted. If they have no outlet for their anger, then it will blow up one day. Even crazy people can & indeed are more likely to be downtrodden, desperate and dispossessed.

      Your smug self righteous undeserved belief in your superiority is disgusting.

    • Anna C says:

      09:06am | 19/08/11

      David can say what he likes but it won’t alter the fact that the silent majority in Australia do not support a Carbon Tax and that if an election were held today the Gillard government would be anihilated. 

      If David and Labor Party supporters want to spend their time accusing the attendees of the rally of being freaks and flat-earthers well then let them. It doesn’t change the facts. What ever gets you through the night mate.

    • Futurelegend says:

      09:07am | 19/08/11

      It was absolutely appropriate for Tony Abbott to address his flock of jigglers (Aussie Teabaggers) because he is one of them. A far right bigoted climate change denier who can’t see past his own nose. The ratbags at the rally are his creation. The constant repetition of the Julia Lied campaign has drawn a following of fools who don’t know how to debate anything on a higher level. Just because there are a lot of them doesn’t make it legitimate. One just has to remember the events in 1930s Germany to see where this type of politicking gets you.

    • Steve says:

      10:09am | 19/08/11

      You are comparing Tony to Hitler and those like me, the middle/middle right mindless jigglers/fools?
      So what is your “higher level argument”? I am just trying to find it through the thinly clad typical union/labor/green abuse we have been used to here in Victoria and nationally with successive labor governments. The tide is turning and you and your lot will be back in moth balls to be brought out some time in the distant future….......

      I now i see why future legend is your name…..back to the wardrobe sunshine.

    • LC says:

      12:17pm | 19/08/11

      The smears continue…

      If this is all the warmists have left, they should think about a return to the drawing board.

    • Futurelegend says:

      12:25pm | 19/08/11

      @ Steve Yes I am saying that and I’m directing it at YOU! From what you have written in reply to my post is exactly the anger created from a media-stunt-populist like Tony Ga Ga Abbott. Stop whinging and go get an education.

    • Futurelegend says:

      01:26pm | 19/08/11

      @LC A comparison of history is not a smear. For smear you need to look at what George Brandis is up to with his great job of muck raking. As usual the right always resorts to smearing reputations and negative campaigning. Tony Ga Ga had a chance of negotiating with the independents to win Government and HE BLEW IT! You should accept that and let the now sitting Government which won the negotiation do it’s job. Count your blessings Australia is doing fine.

    • Roland says:

      09:07am | 19/08/11

      could it be possible David that Abbott is in fact a nutjob, hence his fans? i say yes. and his rival is a freakish robot clown.  sad political times we live in here in AU. i’m looking forward to a future in which we have leaders we can be proud of- fingers crossed!

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      10:36am | 19/08/11

      Never happen. Both major poltical parties are crap and their leaders are inept and incompetent.

    • Col. of Blackburn says:

      09:13am | 19/08/11

      Mr Penberthy

      Alas I expected far better from you. Sadly, do not expect a Christmas Card from me this year. Whilst I may not agree with most of the Citizens Electoral Committees policy platform, although they do do a good line in Rivers and Dams, I would say, “Je suis en désaccord avec que vous dites, mais je défendrai à la mort votre droit de le dire!”
      I have participated and helped organise some ot these rallies, I am 57 years old and a grandparent, does this make me a ‘red knecked radical?’
      BTW, whilst never a member or supporter of One Nation, I have spent a better part of my life involved in the shooting sports, have two medals from the Australian Army, does this make me a ‘Gun Nut?’
      Did you ever think that the people who attend rallies such as this, or things like the ‘Convoy of No Confidence’ are merely expressing their frustration and not being heard by our dysfunctional government. I recently wrote to my own local MP, Mr Symon of the ALP asking what his government was going to do in answer to his own government’s report on supposed rising sea levels. Instead of informing me as to what precautionary measures his government was enacting, his reply stated that not only was I a ‘Sceptic’ and a ‘Denier’, I was also a believer in a ‘Flat Earth’!
      We, the vast majority of the Australian People, are sick of our government wasting OUR taxes on such things as School Halls for schools that are slated to close, Tuck Shops that are too small to be used, government sanctioned murder of our young is house roofs, out of control ‘border control’ the closing down of perfectly viable industries without replacement etc.

      Are you honestly going to tell us that it is quite alright that others who hold protests have some groups attend that want us to repudiate treaties with sovereign nations and advocate violence?

      You say that you wonder at the sanity of some who attended, perhaps you might like to explain to us, your readers why, after being twice rejected in the States House, and there being a growing body of credible scientific evidence that, at least, casts serious scientific doubt on the ‘evidence’ behind AGW, and also the fact that most of the world, including our trading partners wont have a bar of an ETS/CPRS/Carbon Tax, that our government is still hell bent on establishing one? Whose sanity is under scrutiny here Mr Penberthy?

    • John says:

      09:22am | 19/08/11

      It’s really interesting that in the US 30% of the population are claiming to be 9/11 truthers. This huge percentage have lost total trust of US government and the controlled US media. Obama’s approval rating is now at 25%! No matter what he does, captures osama bin laden for the 2nd time! No one cares. The western political elite and the controlled media days are numbered. Revolution is around the corner. They(elite) can keep switching from puppet to puppet, Democrats to Republicans, but the people’s patience is running out. Once the western people lose the entire trust of governments and the media, revolution and the toppling of the elite will come to be. I also believe news corp is playing the false opposition campaign claiming to be on the right side, like the tea party. Glen Beck made a grave mistake stating 9/11 was not an inside job. Once you have millions of people with a negative view of government and media and distrust for them, you can’t undo this in a few days! It will take years.

    • Barry says:

      10:48am | 19/08/11

      Yes, all this 30% displays though is that in America, the fringe extremist, flat-earthers are in much greater numbers.  It also demonstrates how extremist American basement dwellers don’t trust scientists anymore either.  From what I’ve seen of the 9/11 discussion, this is most likely due to the fact that they don’t have the mental ability to comprehend simply scientific principles, and this can result in them experiencing much fear and anxiety over such simple things as gravity and momentum.  Hopefully,  more and more of the 9/11 truthers will be able to gain a basic education, which can teach them basic science, and they won’t have to be so afraid of scientists and engineers anymore.  With this basic education,  they may finally stop humiliating themselves all over the world with their baseless claims.

    • Gregg says:

      09:22am | 19/08/11

      Penbo,
      Why not try and read what you have written with a more open mind from a different standpoint.
      Sure there can be fruit cakes about, some even green and mouldy and in all parties, flat earthers and aliens abounding in their minorities.

      But do you not think for a moment that the silent majority is starting to say enough is enough and that is why you are recognising that things you may have previously seen with the likes of Get Up organising and Greg Combet saying to unionists ” bring your kids to the protest ” are now becoming what will be more normal for more and more people suffering because of the incompetency of four years of recent governannce.

      The Convoys are a rolling and Gillard is staying mum on the deals to keep a Labor MP from being bankrupt.
      How inspiring and how fruit cakeish is that?
      And Inverbrackie is still being used.

    • ibast says:

      09:23am | 19/08/11

      Tony isn’t just hanging out with the"Flat Earthers”, he is one.  He was the apprentice in waiting to Wilson Tucky and somehow he’s ended up holding the wheel.

    • Ms Lulu says:

      09:24am | 19/08/11

      Not really sure what this was all about Penbo ? Oh hang on its an attack on Tony Abbott silly me….

    • Ms Lulu says:

      09:25am | 19/08/11

      Not really sure what this was all about Penbo ? Oh hang on its an attack on Tony Abbott silly me….

    • JohnB says:

      09:27am | 19/08/11

      I think the point you’re missing Col. of Blackburn is their is no logic in this tax….It has nothing to do with the environment. .......

      When Abbott said he’d repeal it….Guess what Gillard said? You’d lose too much revenue.

      This tax is about buying a position on the UN…It’s about redistributing wealth from middle income earners (workers) to low income earners (welfare recipients).....

      It is in the documents that 10% of what’s raised with this tax goes to the UN.

    • iansand says:

      09:32am | 19/08/11

      The odd thing is that many of the comments here prove Penberthy’s point.

    • Hugo says:

      10:21am | 19/08/11

      I think its pretty obvious that when they lost their semi-automtic weapons they bought a broadband connection instead

    • jf says:

      11:50am | 19/08/11

      Penberthy’s article was on his theory that Abbott associates with “freaks and flat-earthers”.

      Which comments on here prove that?

    • jf says:

      11:52am | 19/08/11

      Hugo says:10:21am | 19/08/11

      “I think its pretty obvious that when they lost their semi-automtic weapons they bought a broadband connection instead”

      Are you referring to when they lost their weapons due to legislation initiated and implemented (without a single sub-committee, focus group or community forum) by a conservative prime minister.

    • Hugo says:

      12:19pm | 19/08/11

      Indeed I am. It’s the same frankly boring anti-government movement that rears its head every decade or so. The issue doesn’t matter, nor does the political party in power. What matters is the chance to get angry at the world and the nefarious “powers that be” which they feel must somehow be responsible through some conspiracy for some bad thing that happened to them at somepoint. Those who genuinely believe that a bunch of powerful blokes sit around sipping tea and thinking about how to make the world a worse place.

    • Talon says:

      12:24pm | 19/08/11

      jf - I thought the point would have been obviouse.  The difference between the carrot and the stick.  The carrot being open conversation over the net.  People are venting their frustrations of the injustice of their predicament constructively.  I know I could not be trusted in the same room as Gillard and or Brown even with a teaspoon (stick).  One reason why I would not go out of my way to meet them and the fact that they are not worth the dirt under my shoe.

    • jf says:

      12:51pm | 19/08/11

      Hugo says:12:19pm | 19/08/11

      “The issue doesn’t matter, nor does the political party in power.”

      Absolutely right. Which makes it all the more curious that the author would focus on Abbott and the fringe right.

      Particularly when the ALP is in a formal relationship with the fringe left.

    • Talon says:

      12:59pm | 19/08/11

      Oops.  (Red faced)  It looks as though I miss read the intent of your original post Hugo.  My opinion remains unchanged thought.  I do think, however, that to insinuate the debate/issue does not matter to people and posters are just anti authoritarian is a bit much.

    • Hugo says:

      01:11pm | 19/08/11

      Talon, I should put in a caveat. I don’t think of these protesters are uncaring - the rational and general element is there. But the anti-government conspiracy nuts are there too.

    • Justy says:

      09:35am | 19/08/11

      Penbo,You have just shown your true colors,and I think it time you lay down and take a breather. Freaks Facists, etc more describes you and your looney lot.We the majority of silent Aussies happen to agree with the “mob” you describe and most of us would have been there if possible.I can only assume you and the editors do not want Julia out of office.Just wait the day of reckoning is nigh….

    • Futurelegend says:

      09:36am | 19/08/11

      Clearly Tony is Ga Ga and like the Lady he has his little monsters. Little monsters who monster fist salute to their leader when he addresses them. Hail Tony Hail Tony. Tony Ga Ga.

    • Gherkin says:

      09:44am | 19/08/11

      True, we middle-Australians aren’t a very politically active lot. Which suggests that the rallies in Canberra are only the tip of the iceberg. Tony gets it. You don’t.

    • Steve says:

      09:46am | 19/08/11

      You really should be sacked for your blatant left wing reporting here. Seriously a couple placards then generalises the whole crowds view.

      The silent majority are coming out, that is what your leader has polarised David.  Please go back to reporting the daily death columns and leave political reporting and opinions to some one more balanced.

      You are a disgrace!

    • Andrew says:

      12:08pm | 19/08/11

      What about blatant right wing reporting? Is that ok? I am sure Davids colleagues at news limited can find some that fit this view pretty easily.

    • HappyCynic says:

      03:23pm | 19/08/11

      @Steve

      When you say “someone more balanced” I assume you mean someone who only agrees with your point of view and never promotes any dissenting views?

      The problem with all this crap rhetoric on the Carbon Tax is people like you refuse to listen to opinions you don’t agree with.  Either because you’re too stupid or too stubborn or too lazy.  If you want balance listen to all points of view and then create your own view, otherwise you’re just as biased and ignorant as the opinions you insult.

    • James McCormick says:

      09:48am | 19/08/11

      Penbo, I am both a scientist and qualified meteorologist, and I happen to agree with the sentiments of the ‘flat earthers’ who attended the recent rally in Canberra. In fact I’d have been there myself if I didn’t have a job to go to. There is neither justice nor moral legitimacy in this minority government applying an arduous tax that the majority of Australians neither agree with nor consent to, that is based on politically motivated distortions and several lies, will not change the earth’s climate one measurable iota, will harm the Australian economy, and which the current PM specifically ruled out as a basis of her election platform. If this article was not a shit stir, as I hope it is, you have done your professional reputation no service by presenting lies as fact and by attempting to vilify and/or mock those angry (and I stress, very angry) Australians who legitimately and in my opinion justifiably oppose it.

    • fml says:

      12:52pm | 19/08/11

      will it reduce pollution levels in australia?

    • Anubis says:

      09:48am | 19/08/11

      So Penbo, what you are saying is that, because I don’t support a major tax grab that is poorly disguised as an environmental band-aid, then I am either a freak or a flat-earther. WTF do you get off making that assertion?

      This tax will have no effect on the environment, will not reduce emissions (now admitted by the Govt) and is an opportunity for them to conduct a bit more wealth redistribution, following Gillard’s socialist leanings.

      So because I am not jumping up and down waving my wallet and saying here it is Julia, come and get it, then I am a freaky Flat-earther. Geeze Penbo, you really nedd to get out of the office and experience some real life.

    • Dan says:

      10:01am | 19/08/11

      I think you missed this line:

      “...many of the people who attended this rally, and the first one, were salt-of-the-earth punters with a legitimate and sensibly-expressed beef against the government of the day.”

      I’d hope that’d be the category you’d fall into.

      Penbo’s point is that Tony Abbott is playing a dangerous game, associating himself with many at these rallies that aren’t quite as sensible. And you can’t deny there aren’t a few loonies in the crowd.

      I’d say it’s a fair argument.

    • fairsfair says:

      10:06am | 19/08/11

      Amen brother.

      Pretty average response from the Punch on this rally event. It is disappointing.

    • Notvelty says:

      08:55am | 20/08/11

      @Dan.  I don’t think anyone missed the line.  What the writer and plenty of wingnuts seems to have missed is that ‘crazies’ are a function of ALL rallies, not just ones on whatever the other side of politics is.

      While we make one-sided, childish taunts at eachother, none of the real issues will ever be fixed.

      Once upon a time, the media commanded respect.  Now it just rolls around in the gutter, rutting with the very people it is meant to police.

    • Ms Lulu says:

      09:54am | 19/08/11

      Just because we do not support a carbon tax does it not mean we are followers of Tony Abbott, flat earthers or dont believe in science. The media doesnt give the whole story they only give us what they want. This government is rotten to the core and can not keep going on like it is. I havent been around all that long but I only have to look to history to see where we are going under this government. Tax on Carbon ? Pull ya head in !

    • Hugo says:

      09:57am | 19/08/11

      Penbo is about to learn just how fast angry far out folks can type…..

      This article is going to be appearing on some “alterative” forums round the net encouraging their readers to come give Penbo a piece of their mind.

      The point you’ve made Penbo – is quite valid. For all the noise – the influence of the wacky (both left and right) on the political process in Australia is almost universally to damage their own causes.

    • robynne says:

      10:01am | 19/08/11

      WHO pays a dickhead like to to write for them,just because we don’t agree with LABOR WE GET CALLED FLAT EARTHERS ETC,is this what the australian press has come to?if we dont agree with you you insult people ?

    • fml says:

      12:44pm | 19/08/11

      Flat earthers is a reference to people not accepting science for political gain. Yes, its been happening for a while.

    • Anubis says:

      01:34pm | 19/08/11

      @ fml - is that like Bob Brown refusing the supposedly “science is in” stance on the use of CSg for power stations ?

    • fml says:

      02:25pm | 19/08/11

      Anubis,

      Only if he uses god as evidence then routinely refuses any other information and then puts the people who disagree with him to death.
      Has that happened yet?

    • Carl Palmer says:

      10:18am | 19/08/11

      Gee Penbo, I think you need to lie down.

      One minute you call them “fully paid-up fruitcakes” for showing a tad of interest in the goings on in Canberra and then you go on to say that “…one of the most politically inactive countries on earth”.  I guess that’s one way to have a crack at everyone. You’re a di-k head for saying something and you’re a di-k head for not saying something.

      I can only conclude therefore that your expectation is / was that they should have behaved like children at a primary school. Now, quietly make your way down to Canberra sit neatly and quietly in straight rows and then - well – not sure after that….. I’m guessing here – to politely have their say?  And then, when you are finished, please leave in the same manner as you arrived.  There that’s better. ????????????? Penbo, you can do better for a friday.

      In the above photo, I see lots of folks but only one placard that’s a bit harsh.

    • MadKat of Melbourne says:

      10:31am | 19/08/11

      Sounds like the same-old dribble from the Left - the last protesters were considered extremists and likened to the KKK. Labor’s strategy is to discredit as it gives them the excuse to ignore, to not be questioned and to not be held accountable. The next protest, and the next will be much the same -  the biggest thought process Labor will go through is thinking up new ways to legitimise their contempt for opposing opinions in Gillard’s quest for extreme left-wing totalitarian control. For those that don’t believe read the Socialist Forum’s Publication “The Greening of the Red”.

      “Fundamental reconstruction is required in our cultural consciousness and information systems for the longer term, though beginning as soon as governments can be talked into commencing the necessary reforms.” (Page 120, The Greening of the Red) which equals social engineering.

    • fml says:

      12:41pm | 19/08/11

      Totalitarian control is a bit of hyperbole isn’t it?

      We get an election in the next few years don’t we??

    • MadKat of Melbourne says:

      05:03pm | 19/08/11

      fml - thought I’d try my hand at sensationalising - but that’s more Brown’s ideal with a one world government.

      But what are your thoughts on the Socialist Forum and their beliefs (which I find extreme).  Can’t think that it’s good that Gillard had anything to do with them - and then to lie about her role - they would be the equivalent of Labor extremists or is that Get Up! - I like more moderate Labor people like Graham Richardson - at least he knows what he’s talking about even though its looks like they’ve frozen him out - and he commands more respect -

      Would like to get of copy of The Greening of the Red though to have a read to get more insight into what they believe -

    • fml says:

      05:55pm | 19/08/11

      Dont agree with the socialist forum, Governments need to be about balance, while both major parties are relatively close, the key differences bring about noticeable change. Purely by the nature of democracy, new governments are voted in, errors are reversed and everybody moves on, unfortunately not always are they smarter for seeing the previous governments errors.

      I understand the traditional view of communists and socialists in history, and also first hand experience of living under a theocracy. Thats why calls which suggest that the gillard government will suddenly change the constitution and create a totalitarian state i find somewhat bemusing.

      I agree good governmental balance is somewhere in the middle, too much privatization and deregulation leads to the GFC, too much state control leads to stagnation of the economy and resentment. The current system is perfect as it allows change every couple of years according to the global climate.

      Why was gillard a member?? i dont know, does she still believe in their ideology? maybe, Would the labor party allow her to implement extreme socialist policy in Australia, i seriously doubt it.

    • michael j says:

      10:55am | 19/08/11

      Well there ya go ,shows if ya read the whole article you might learn somethink ?
      A, have you put Tony Abbot’s judgement in question’s ? easily fixed,a simple contract quickly drawn up and signed in blood,doesn’t have to be Tony’s ,Joe’s would be fine as well for this,,,,

    • Watcher says:

      10:57am | 19/08/11

      I don’t think anyone wants this carbon tax, with the exception of the Green’s. But in saying that , if you look at that photo and the news coverage the majority of those nasty sign posters seem to be well over 50. The rest of Australia was working. I don’t understand what is so hard about waiting to see if it costs us and then voting them out. Tony Abbot has already said he will undo it!! Things have gotten very nasty, it really is a shame for this country and so unnecessary

    • Andrew says:

      06:12pm | 19/08/11

      Do you have any understanding at all of what it would cost to implement the tax and then get rid of it, do you have any understanding of what the uncertainly is doing to businesses and investment in this country. The Australian people dont want it, the rest of the world doesnt want it, and only a idiot would believe it will change the temperature of the world which is suppose to be the reason for having it.

    • Hugo says:

      11:04am | 19/08/11

      You know what this thread shows? It shows what happens to your intellectual fitness when you spend all your time in an echo chamber.

      For your own sharpness - for your own sake - make sure to occasionally talk to someone who doesn’t agree with you. If for no other reason than to be able to proselytise those Nazi/Commie Multicultalist Un-Austrayan Get Up Ninja Marixist Bankers who don’t see it your way.

    • Kipling says:

      11:04am | 19/08/11

      Good onya Penbo….

      It is to laugh. The really laughable bit for me though is the righteous indignation of those die hard rusted on voters, regardless of which inept (Lieber or Lieberal) team they are rusted on to.
      It is noteworthy that those who are totally enamoured with the Lieberals will trot out their ready made justifications for accepting John Howard’s oath breaking and lying, or dismiss Tony Abbots flip flopping like a toy with an energizer battery in it because Julia Gillard broke a promise. Likewise, those who are enraptured by Liebor ideals (hmm, do they actually have any ideals in the modern world?) accept point blank any old excuse for why Julia did not uphold her integrity and her promise to the Australian public.
      Get this though; liars, cheats and the illegitimate populate both teams. Australia currently has the best democracy that money can buy, we have the best Government that money can buy and, we have the most pliable workforce that money will not be required for….
      The best message the Australian public has sent to politicians in a long time was the hung parliament we have. That occurred because of a distinct lack of faith in either of the major parties. Sadly, this has largely been ignored by the media, therefore not an issue either of the major parties have had to actually address.
      Isn’t it just a bit ironic that Federally we have a Labor Government technically in bed with the Greens and a couple of independents whilst simultaneously we have a NSW State Government technically in bed with the Shooters party and the Christian Democrats…. In short, Federally we are looking at a Carbon Tax (we need more taxations due to selling off of public assets don’t forget), a gambling cap and plain packaging for cigarettes - we know this largely due to the media coverage. At the state level in NSW we are looking at Shooting being part of public school curriculum whilst ethics lessons are not (am I the only one who sees how silly that is?), more privatisation with plans to sell of Electricity to the private sector. This already failed under the last state government. We are not as aware of this due largely to the distinct lack of media coverage.
      It was reported some time back that in the first four months of government NSW State Government had done nothing. This was a smallish article on about page six of the Telegraph…. It was not entirely accurate either because at the time NSW Government had made a change to Welfare legislation. Not one that would benefit more recipients of a disability pension mind you, but, one in particular who is a Minister in Barry O’s government. The law changes so he could suspend his disability pension in order to become a Minister in the current Government… So, incapable of working in the mainstream like the rest of us, BUT, totally able to fill the post of a minister. Hmmm, says a lot about a Ministers level of competency. Of course, once his term is finished he can collect his ministerial pension and (since it is only suspended) claim his disability pension again.
      The lack of integrity demonstrated by our standing members, both Federally and at a State level indicates to that the loonies may well be under represented…

    • bullea says:

      11:05am | 19/08/11

      Get over yourself!!  Accept that people CARE. Who got hurt???
      The stupid tax will hurt!

    • Ms Lulu says:

      11:07am | 19/08/11

      I guess its ok for the Prime Minister to share the stage with Get Up then ?

    • CA says:

      11:07am | 19/08/11

      Sometimes I think most posters on here are a bunch of idiots. If you’d like to live in a country where little is being done about pollution and climate change, wages are very low because unions are practically non existent, the mega rich are taxed at a lower rate than the working and middle classes, work on government infrastructure such as roads has come to a halt and unemployment is huge - by all means, be my guest and move to the US. Cos that place is doing really well!
      Or alternatively elect an Abbott government.

      The suggestion that Abbott will ever look after the working and middle class (aka ‘ordinary people’) of Australia is absolutely laughable. Abbott says whatever he thinks the audience he is speaking to at the time wants to hear. The fact that he even said to some coal miners that he is a ‘union man’ is outrageous!

      The Liberal Party is there the rich and always have been. End of story.

    • Wag the dog says:

      07:51am | 20/08/11

      You poor, downtrodden loser. Why not get off your backside and make some money for yourself, you’re already rich just by living in Australia, a land of wealth and opportunity. And please, stop trying to drag others down to your level of negativity and discontent, with your imaginary and wholly imported notions of social class structures.

    • Talon says:

      11:10am | 19/08/11

      David Penberthy.  You are entitled to your oppinion like we all are, no matter how deluded yours may be.  Any Government official will spruke to the public in any forum when it is in their best interest.  I do note that Gillard is unable to justify her actions and has removed herself from public view as have those in Government who support her.  The few that have attended public meetings, had to face a hostile audience and avoid answering difficult questions.  We Australians know we have a government without conscience or ethics.  Funny that they are trying to teach it in our schools when they have proven time and again that they have none.

    • fml says:

      12:38pm | 19/08/11

      Only a liberal supporter would say trying to save the earth (irrespective of whether effective, or whether the earth needs saving) is unconscionable.

    • Talon says:

      01:20pm | 19/08/11

      Sorry fml to dissapoint you, but I am not a Liberal supporter or Labour, Green, Indepentdant, National and definately not any religious party.  I also do not support polititions who are charismatic and influencial.  No, I believe in good effective policy.  I am all about saving our planet and do my part in that goal, however this tax is not about that at all.  Frankly Labour has failed too many times, that is why they have lost their support base.  Do not throw stones at people you think are not green simply because they do not believe the lies of the Labour Government. The words you have verballed me upon would never leave my lips or enter my mind.

    • fml says:

      02:36pm | 19/08/11

      On an article about Carbon Tax, you call the government bringing in said carbon tax. “without conscience or ethics.”

      While i may be wrong about your political persuasion, you are incorrect when you say this tax has nothing to do with saving the planet. It has everything to do with saving the planet, you disagree with its effectiveness.

      Ok then, how about debating the policy then? what is good effective policy? calling the government a bunch of liars. That may work for a four year old. Tell me how a tax which reduces with the amount of pollution you produce is not going to reduce pollution?

      Now, remember calling the government a bunch of liars does nothing to disprove the tax.

    • MadKat of Melbourne says:

      05:33pm | 19/08/11

      But fml - will the tax reduce pollution ?? - my bet is that the corporations will go along like normal and send the costs downwards towards the consumers - the government is admitting this will happen with the plan to pay compensation to households -

      And with asking corporations to change to lower carbon producing ways of providing their goods and services there are a number of questions - have these technologies actually been invented yet? - how big a cost to the business is it if they have to refit machinery? will production costs raise? (the new technology may not necessarily mean lower production costs) - for some companies it will just be cheaper to move offshore than bother with being here - that will mean job losses.

      Don’t get me wrong - I’d like to do extra for the environment, I’d even pay extra if I thought something would be effective - Gillard talks about saving the environment but then cuts back on incentives for green companies - I read an article this week about a solar company that has had to close the manufacturing of solar panelling part of their business and rely on imports from China because Gillard has cut back on helping the industry -

      This government needs to be more innovative like Germany - we could have a fantastic green industry here inventing new technologies and exporting them to the world rather than just relying on extracting natural resources from the ground and selling them to China - I’m afraid I just don’t think this government has the vision to implement it -

    • fml says:

      06:03pm | 19/08/11

      Kat,

      So we meet again,

      Its your last line, ” I’m afraid I just don’t think this government has the vision to implement it “

      We already pay taxes to clean pollution, i dont have the exact link but i think it was $480 million or there abouts, I do think the flaw in the tax is whether the companies move towards green technologies due to cost, but i think that the free market will dictate that it will, Smaller green technology innovation companies will be invested in, and if big companies go overseas, so be it, the void will be filled by other companies over east you have already implemented such technologies.  It will take time, i think it will reduce pollution, by how much i am not so sure.

      As for the cost, if companies were clever and they invested in renewable resources eventually their power overheads will be reduced, hopefully then (for us) they reduce costs when prices become more competitive, thats a big if though, but if they are smart, they will lower their overheads and keep the prices the same, which is increased profits for them. It takes time, i do beleive it will make a difference to the environment but i am not sure how much.

    • PeterMax says:

      11:25am | 19/08/11

      There are many reasons, and I very appropriately throw back some of David Penberthy’s words to him, why this article contains the views of the barking mad freaks and flat earthers on the Left side of politics who will not open their minds and consider the climate change views of the many sane, reputable and credible scientists plus President Vaclav Klaus and Lord Christopher Monckton whose soundly based research and views disagree with the alarmists.

      Julia Gillard & Co and the Left have counted on the silent majority remaining silent as is mostly the case.  However the people have become so outraged by the unprecedented bad behaviour, incompetence, squandering and planned serious damage to Australia’s economy and jobs by Julia Gillard & Co’s carbon tax that they can no longer, nor should they, remain silent as the Left would like them to continue to do.

      Did David Penberthy attack the Left over their vicious attacks on John and Janette Howard - burning effigies, abuse etc - , and Peter Costello - a despicable and lying theatre play about him -  and attacks on other Coalition people at the time of or since these attacks.  I believe not.  Refer ’ Rude is only when the Liberals do it ” http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/column_rude_is_only_when_a_liberal_does_it/
      and “Where’s the outrage? ”  ( Tim Blair http://www.spectator.co.uk/australia/7132478/wheres-the-outrage.thtml )

      I agree with the placard where it says Julia Gillard has Nil substance. There is no evidence of substance. As undesirable as a the few of the unpalatable placards were, they were mild compared to what the Left endlessly get up to. It is David Penberthy who needs to lie down and remember that the Left are only getting back a miniscule amount of the abuse and lies directed at the Coalition and the half of the Australians who support them.  It is the Labor/Left who should learn from this instead of being endlessly hypocritical.

    • fml says:

      12:37pm | 19/08/11

      But Monckton isnt a scientist.

    • Jane says:

      01:15pm | 19/08/11

      Both President Vaclav Klaus and Lord Christopher Monckton are paid to talk by energy and mining magnates. LIke Tobacco companies telling us smoking is healthy. Though you would think with the billiosn at their disposal they could at least get some reputable scientists and not the rent a crowd.

      Also Liberal support climate science, the debate is not left or right but but on the policy used to achieve bipartisan targets. Strange enough Labor policy is more right wing than Liberal policy of Direc tAction.

    • PeterMax says:

      02:18pm | 19/08/11

      Hi to fml, there are plenty of scientists who have different views to the alarmist scientists. Also the Australians Professor Plimer and Professor Bob Carter have made significant contributions to the NOT alarmist view.

      Hi to Jane, where is the proof that President Vaclav Klaus and Lord Christopher Monckton are paid to talk by the energy and mining magnates.  You forgot to mention how many alarmists Julia Gillard & Co pay huge $amounts to, to strongly promote the alarmist view. For example much discredited Tim Flannery ( who has also recently bought two houses near the sea ) and Ross Garnaut and of course Al Gore used the his at least partly discredited ( by an English Judge ) alarmist views to make lots of money

    • fml says:

      02:43pm | 19/08/11

      Peter,

      Ian Rutherford Plimer (born 12 February 1946) is an Australian geologist, academic, professor of mining geology at the University of Adelaide, and a director of four mining companies

      Robert M. “Bob” Carter is an adjunct research professor in the Marine Geophysical Laboratory at James Cook University, Queensland,and the University of Adelaide, South Australia He is a geologist specializing in palaeontology, stratigraphy, marine geology, and environmental science.Carter is a former Director of Australia’s Secretariat for the Ocean Drilling Program and a Co-Chief Scientist for drilling leg 181

      Both work/worked for mining companies.

    • PeterMax says:

      04:18pm | 19/08/11

      Hi fml,  many thanks for the info.  You forgot to mention that Ross Garnaut was a Director of Lihir gold mining on a PNG Island and also that that company allowed significant amounts of mining waste to be discharged into the sea. This practise would not be allowed in Australia and he should not have allowed it in PNG.  He should have received much adverse media exposure and other denigration for his disgraceful actions or inactions.  Instead he continued to be paid lots of money by Julia Gillard & Co to promote the extreme climate change views, which plenty of scientists disagree with.  In my view Garnaut is not an environmentally suitable person to be paid very large amounts of tax-payers dollars by Gillard & Co.

    • PeterMax says:

      04:31pm | 19/08/11

      Hi again fml,  I forgot to mention that Ross Garnaut was chairman of the Lihir Gold, a mining company taken over by Newcrest Gold 12 months ago

      At that time Garnaut was also a director OK Tedi Mining Limited - and may still be -  another company which operates in PNG.

    • Notvelty says:

      08:59am | 20/08/11

      Peter, one group doing something does not make it right for the other to do so.

      My vote goes to the first party to take such a stand.  Gosh, I hope I don’t get fined too much for the informal votes I predict.

    • PeterMax says:

      09:56am | 20/08/11

      Hi Notvelty.  In a perfect world your thoughts would be OK.  The Labor/Left have for years counted on the Coalition supporters not responding in kind.  Enough is enough and it is time to stand up for our beliefs and not continue to be the silent minority now apparently majority

      I also forgot to mention above that the OK Tedi gold mine of which Ross Garnaut was or still is a director did significant environmental damage to the huge and very important Fly River in PNG and the livelihoods of the people who rely on it for fish, water and so on.

    • Sarah M says:

      11:25am | 19/08/11

      Agreed Penbo.

      Tony’s not going to win elections by dancing with the fringedwellers.

      I’ve always voted lib but I’m not voting for Tony. He is far too accomodating of the nutters.

    • PeterMax says:

      05:06pm | 19/08/11

      Rubbish.  No Lib would say that.

    • Andrew says:

      06:20pm | 19/08/11

      Yeah right Sarah ‘‘Ive always voted lib”  LMAO. Myself,  I’ve always voted green but bob has become way to friendly with the left wing nutters so never again.

    • Knemon says:

      02:14pm | 19/08/11

      @ Ryan - You do realise that the author of your link, Dr. Roy Spencer is a creationist scientist who is a proponent of intelligent design as the mechanism for the origin of species. It’s not for me to say he is wrong, but he did say:-

      “I finally became convinced that the theory of creation actually had a much better scientific basis than the theory of evolution”

      Which is slightly wacky, don’t you think? Though he did say the Earth is not flat….I think!

    • RyaN says:

      03:26pm | 19/08/11

      @Knemon: yes I know how you dropkicks attempt to smear a man who has presented nothing but straight EVIDENCE.
      If you believe his scientific evidence to be false and the contrived theoretical computer models to be true then prove it.

      What your side of the debate has is zero evidence, not one shred of evidence, not even the smallest verified human marker in global warming.

    • Aussie Wazza says:

      11:36am | 19/08/11

      Why can’t these people act Australian?

      Rallys, marches and demonstrations are not the Australian way.

      Be Australian, act like 98.367% real Australians;

      Stamp your foot (In private;best at home.)

      Mumble ‘It’s not fair.’ and ‘They should do something.’

      That’le get things changed.

    • Julie Coker-Godson says:

      04:45pm | 19/08/11

      Times are changing Aussie Wazza.  The silent majority are no longer prepared to remain silent.  They have become so angry that many of these people are prepared to leave their farms, businesses etc to make this trip because they believe their country is being badly and incompetently led.  The reasons for this are the carbon tax, the ‘pink batts’, the BER; the live animal export trade and the blatant dishonesty about the implementation of the carbon tax.  And before anyone else jumps on the “what about John Howard and the GST?” bandwagon, I should point out that John Howard put the GST on the election manifesto, i.e. he put it to the people.  THIS is the issue causing Julia Gillard a problem.  6 days prior to election day we had the announcement from her that there would be no carbon tax under a government she led.  However, she proceeded to go on and do a deal with the Greens in order to achieve a minority government and the carbon tax was put on the agenda *after* the people had voted.  I don’t know about you, but this is not a good look. 
      Persistent failures of policy implementation, making foreign policy announcements *ahead* of signed, sealed and delivered agreements with our neighbours in relation to the asylum seekers causing those governments acute embarrassment and those thinking Australians a sense of shame.
      Now we have this Johnson character and the use of a credit card for payment of escort services and the payments made to him to keep him solvent so he doesn’t get chucked out of parliament.  It just goes from bad to worse, and they are spending money like drunken sailors for which the taxpayer will be required to dip deeply into his pocket for payment.
      I consider this Government’s actions to be distinctly un-Australian.  And I should do some history research if I were you on the subject of rallies, marches and demonstrations in Australia.  They are common practice in point of *fact*.  Remember the Vietnam demonstrations where the thugs there threw ball bearings under the legs of the police horses?  The violent storming of Parliament House in 1995, smashing the glass entrance doors and totally destroying the book/gift shop?  Are you old enough to remember the union stoppages of the 1950s/1960s and the violence that took place at many of those? 
      No?  I thought not…selective memory you have there Aussie Wazza.

    • Dodge says:

      11:40am | 19/08/11

      You’ve got to be a real snaggle-toothed redneck to think those freaks represented the average Australian.

      What were those lazy scum doing anyway on a Tuesday? Get back to work! At least the 100000 thousand folks for the green rally did it on a Sunday.

      As the above poster points out, America is failing, why would we attempt to emulate them?

    • Hugo says:

      11:49am | 19/08/11

      That’s something I’ve found interesting too Dodge. For “Average Australians” there does seem to be a disproportionate number of unemployed at these things, also a disproportionate number of Rose Tattoo fans….

    • RyaN says:

      12:06pm | 19/08/11

      @Dodge: I hate to point out your lack of logical reasoning but unfortunately I feel compelled to.

      Dodge, have you heard of leave, you know you take a day off using that thing called annual leave?

      And you want us to take your opinion seriously!

    • fml says:

      12:34pm | 19/08/11

      Funny that RyaN, thats the exact same logic i use for when the left have a protest, yet they get called jobless bums and me a communist.

      What you say is appropriate though, its just that both sides just make the others out to what they want them to be.

    • Dodge says:

      02:12pm | 19/08/11

      Ryan - you failed. Taking a day off, be it sick, leave or RDO for that nonsense is an utter waste of time. I stand by comment.

      A weekend rally may have got more than the utterly pathetic 6k turnout with the wealth of functional retards, tea-party try hards and the other refuse that showed up.

      Feel free to hold back your opinion next time. Kbye.

    • James1 says:

      02:50pm | 19/08/11

      Dodge, I used a half day of rec leave to attend.  Whether or not that was a waste is up to me.

      RyaN, the things you say about Penbo below would be entirely justified directed at this Dodge fellow.  Indeed, those things and much, much more.  After all, it has been observed that you cannot use facts to change the mind of a person who does not use facts to construct their argument.

    • RyaN says:

      03:48pm | 19/08/11

      @Dodge: “Taking a day off, be it sick, leave or RDO for that nonsense is an utter waste of time.”
      But taking a day out of your weekend is, yup I sure failed that logic test there mate.

      Whats that over there Dodge, ah yes, that’s your credibility shot to hell.

    • Chipmonk says:

      04:03pm | 19/08/11

      Fair dinkum! Dodge please post a comment that makes sense. What are you doing posting on a blog at 11:40 am on a work day? Lazy scum? As posted before. I was there, i own my own successful business and i chose to exercise my democratic right to demand a new election. Also 10 million attending a green rally impressive! Or is it just your maths is as bad as your logic?

    • Andrew says:

      11:40am | 19/08/11

      Malcolm T had it spot on, you do nothing by encouraging the people who will always vote for you. It is the middle of the political divide that delivers government.
      At the moment the polls are in Tony’s favor.
      Attending these sort of rallies doesn’t work for him, it can entrench as a more extreme choice to voters, the libs need to better stage manage such events if he is going to headline them.

    • Kipling says:

      11:42am | 19/08/11

      So let me get this straight, abuse, lies and rude behaviour are ok if you can justify it enough. Oh and let me get this straight, “they did it first” is adequate justification….
      I guess that should also cover threats, violence and intimidation as well…
      One would assume the bench mark for one’s own behaviour is not set by others behaviour, at least if one is responsible…

    • yofussn says:

      11:50am | 19/08/11

      SO where was the self righteous indignation at our very own SS gestapo get ups campaign to boycott small grocers who declined to accept the carbon tax, whats good for the goose should be good for the gander y one eyed drip.

    • Leigh says:

      11:50am | 19/08/11

      I will never know who the ‘fruitcakes’ were, because when people start attaching insulting names to people they disagree with, I stop reading. Shame on you Mr. Pemberton; I thought you had more sense.

    • Seth Brundle says:

      11:57am | 19/08/11

      Flat earthers believed the earth was flat and had an overwhelming scientific consensus to support their belief.  So doesnt that make the Climate Change supporters the “Flat Earthers” ?

    • Obob says:

      12:07pm | 19/08/11

      Well said Seth!

    • fml says:

      12:32pm | 19/08/11

      uuuhhhh fail, the flat earthers did not have scientific support, they had religious support. Try again, you should get it right next time.

    • Obob says:

      12:47pm | 19/08/11

      Hey fml
      They had both religious AND scientific (for the age) support!.
      Enough of the leftist/warmist half-truths!

    • Obob says:

      12:05pm | 19/08/11

      The article said
      “The assertion by the organisers and participants in these rallies that they represent nothing other than the silent majority simply doesn’t stack up.”

      Huh?
      This pointless and destructive carbon tax has driven Julia Liehard’s primary vote down to 28% and you have the gall to say that this is not the silent majority speaking.

      You’re obviously in the leftist/warmist camp comrade!

    • RyaN says:

      12:16pm | 19/08/11

      Looking at the picture they look like ordinary mums and dads.
      Strange how these “freaks” weren’t out there protesting when we had competent government!

      Clearly Penbo’s leftie goggles are missing the key factor here, competent government!

      I guess you just have to be a freak to care about your country and fight rather than sit back and watch as it gets flushed down the toilet bowl by a bunch of commies.

      Qantas moving offshore to avoid the carbon tax, thousands of jobs gone.
      Oil refinery closing in Sydney due to the carbon tax, hundreds of jobs gone.

      I suppose you won’t give a flying rats arse when people are broke and living on the street Penbo, its not like you give a damn about the country.

    • James1 says:

      12:31pm | 19/08/11

      I was at the rally on Tuesday.  I was wearing a suit and my Parliament House ID tag.  One sweet old woman called me a “fucking government stooge”, and asked some young fellows to have me removed (they refused, pointing out i was just there to protest like everyone else).

      Sure, many of those present were reasonable, average people.  But at least one person present thought anyone wearing a suit was fair game, and others told me that this tax was all a ruse - a means for the UN to take over Australia.  In that sense, you are both right.  There were lots of average people there, and there were also some crazies around.

      As such, your personal attack on Penbo is over the top, and unwarranted.

    • RyaN says:

      01:23pm | 19/08/11

      @James1: Really? a personal attack? I thought it quite mild considering that Penbo was labeling ordinary mums and dads as “freaks” and “flat-earthers”.

    • James1 says:

      02:09pm | 19/08/11

      Except, if you read his article, he didn’t do that.  He labelled the nutters at the rally as nutters, not the average dads like me.  I don’t feel insulted in the least by this article, despite my presence at the rally, because I was one of those who wanted to oppose the carbon tax.  That Penbo describes the fact I was standing alongside a few nutters in no way casts aspersions upon my character. 

      Accusing someone of not giving “a flying rats arse when people are broke and living on the street” because they observe reality seems to me an unwarranted personal attack.  Perhaps we just have different standards of debate.

    • Mattb says:

      03:32pm | 19/08/11

      @Ryan

      Did you miss the paragraph in the article where it stated

      “Let’s insert a couple of quick caveats here. Everyone who attended these rallies is obviously entitled to hold the views of their choice. And many of the people who attended this rally, and the first one, were salt-of-the-earth punters with a legitimate and sensibly-expressed beef against the government of the day.”

      Maybe that’s the “mums and dads” your talking about. Penbo didn’t state anywhere in the article that ALL the rally attendees were ‘freaks’ and ‘flatearthers’. You are the one assuming that’s what he’s saying because you failed to read the article and fully comprehend it’s message you twit.

    • RyaN says:

      03:43pm | 19/08/11

      @James1: fair enough James, I see your point with regards to the biased observation of the article.
      Essentially Penbo attempted to caveat himself out of criticism by claiming that some people were OK then launched into a tirade about linking Tony Abbott to the very tiny minority of crazies who attend just about any gathering of people wherever you are.

      Lets not forget the blatant intention of the title of this piece or should we just write it off as shenanigans?

      A logical person such as yourself should easily be able to see the mischievous intention of this article so I wonder why it is that you defend it?

      You say that Penbo has observed reality, then what do you call this quote in reference to Tony Abbott?
      “yet he has thrown in his lot with the freaks, fascists and flat-earthers who think Ju-Liar is Bob Brown’s Bitch and should be burned at the stake. “
      So what he is implying is that the vast majority of the protestors (aside from the mischievous fact that that sign he quotes was not at this rally just past) are crazies.

      You still think that the criticism is unwarranted?

    • James1 says:

      04:39pm | 19/08/11

      Honestly RyaN, I didn’t take that as the implication until you pointed it out.  I see now how you reached that position.  However, I would maintain that it is invalid to then infer that Penbo doesn’t care about his country, or his fellow countrymen.

      But then, I am not really a big fan of Tony Abbott and his style, and many in the Liberal Party (full disclosure - I am a member of the Liberal Party) are starting to get a little uncomfortable with Mr Abbott’s tendency to pander to - and associate with - extremes outside the party.  Perhaps your not being as personally close to the matter as I explains why you picked it up, but I didn’t.

    • RyaN says:

      05:30pm | 19/08/11

      @James1: Fair enough James, I see your point also, I take the last sentence back and apologise to Penbo most profusely, it was clearly over the top.
      Sorry Penbo!

    • LC says:

      12:22pm | 19/08/11

      So Pembo, can we expect to see a similar article the next time we see a protest put on by Green/Labor supporters? You only have to look just 11 years back to see some of the antics this crowd gets up to.

      What’s that? “No”?

      Hypocrite.

    • James1 says:

      01:44pm | 19/08/11

      Relevance, Jim?  I do not see what that has to do with the Greens.  Nice try at shifting the goalposts, though.

    • Jim says:

      05:18pm | 19/08/11

      Wow…sorry James1. Should I email you next time for permission to comment?

      Penbo’s an arsehat. He writes self-serving shit. That was the relevence.

    • Andrew says:

      06:34pm | 19/08/11

      So James which of these articles are criticising the people that turn up to green rallies as lunatics, looneys and nutters. Which ones criticises the signs held up by the protestors and politicians for talking at the rallies.

    • Won Dring says:

      12:46pm | 19/08/11

      I have a concern about the methane content of the waste managed by our councils. That hot air has a factor of 25times carbon emissions.
      the waste management stations are privatised & ahve to be among the bif polluters. Having seen the cost of tipping old paint, I have agreat concern for how much our rates will increase.
      that hot air is is much more injurious to society than anything in these posts.

    • fml says:

      02:49pm | 19/08/11

      Carbon monoxide (CO) is only a very weak direct greenhouse gas. Carbon monoxide reacts with hydroxyl (OH) radicals in the atmosphere, reducing their abundance. As OH radicals help to reduce the lifetimes of strong greenhouse gases, like methane, increasing methane levels in the atmosphere. You have a right to be concerned about Methane, but increased Carbon in the atmosphere increases its effect.

    • Jim says:

      01:05pm | 19/08/11

      No fat kid jokes today Penbo?

      I see you’re taking the piss over some of the placards - what about the one from the pro-LIE rally that stated “Who needs oil, I’ll take the bus”

      Pure genius that.

      Anyways….freakshow huh? I know that protests coming from the conservative side are a new thing, and they are learning all they can from several decades of ferals from the left protesting just about everything. Should they chain themselves to a tree, Penbo? Would that be more acceptable? How about setting buildings alight and looting? Or what about they take a leaf out of Combet’s book and organise for a few terrified toddlers to get crushed as their unionpig dads scream obscenities and froth at the mouth? Maybe firebombing a few managers cars and make the odd death threat! How about that Penbo?

      I mean, the conservatives DO have a lot to learn when it comes to protesting.

    • rob says:

      01:23pm | 19/08/11

      Hey Penbo you wanker…did you wtite a piece about Getup when they protested?. Go sit on your latte cup.

    • Kevin says:

      01:29pm | 19/08/11

      “How do we rate women of substance? Aung San Suu Kyi: 10. Wendi Murdoch: 10. Julia Gillard: Nil.”

      More odd than sinister, that one.


      I suspect the majority of the crowd, the “White Australia” Hansonites, struggled with the fact that the sign placed 2 asians top of the list instead of their pinup girl from the west, Gina Rhinehart.

    • wearestardust says:

      01:45pm | 19/08/11

      The Punch seems to be in the same position as the ABC, of having both frothing left and right complaining about the rampant bias - indicating some degree of reasonable balance in the long run. 

      But I digress.  I find myself in agreement with most of what is written (which, by the by, makes me worried that I’m turning into my parents - sorry, digressing again) but I do disagree on a key point, which is that I don’t think it is a matter of Abbott thinking about whether he should be attending these rallies.  They are a key part of his strategy and he has carefully cultivated the kind of thinking that attracts the loons.

      It will be recalled that there was a time when there was a general consensus in the community that it would be a Good Thing to Do Something about carbon pollution, and that at the time the Something was a cap and trade scheme.  That was torpedoed by the bastard Greens (largely because it enabled the corporations to be all corporationy and put a rent on the marginal smugness of carbon-aware consumers such as myself, but that’s another story).

      The policy hiatus has enabled the Coalition to effect a substantial turnaround in popular thinking, precisely by promoting the sort of irrational and hysterical discourse (I hate that pomo buzz word but “debate” or “discussion” just don’t apply) that rejects evidence, relies on asserting a vast global scientific conspiracy, and generally refuses to allow legitimacy to any opinion other than its own.  Given that the ALP went into the election promising climate change action, that the change of direction from cap and trade to a tax was breaking a promise but no worse than many promises broken before, and that the science points almost entirely one way, a reasonable, fair and balanced debate wasn’t going to do it.  So whipping up hysteria it had to be.

      So while the people at the rally include a fair number of loons, and a lot more people who seem to have forgotten how to think, Abbott himself is the acme of rationality - that is, using efficient and appropriate means to achieve his goals - albeit limiting the word “appropriate” to a technical mechanical sense ignoring reasonableness, evidence or regard for facts.

    • RyaN says:

      05:43pm | 19/08/11

      To dismiss a barefaced, categorical lie like “There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead” used specifically to cling to power is laughable, good try though!

    • cynic says:

      01:48pm | 19/08/11

      And the point of this item is? I suppose you reckon the getup(labor/green franchise) attacks on abbott are legitmate then? Also, where were your items of complaint with the hate directed towards john howard when in office. If you want to criticise at least have some balance please, not a balance to the left.

    • Deena says:

      02:07pm | 19/08/11

      Gillard said NO carbon tax under a government she leads.

      We will not let her forget that promise!

    • Julie Coker-Godson says:

      02:14pm | 19/08/11

      ulie’s Reflections on being at the Anti Carbon Tax Rally

      God truly must have loved us yesterday, there must have been approval of our cause.  Why?  Yesterday the sun was out, it was warm and made the day perfect for this rally.  Today, it is pouring with rain, only 11c and cold.  Says it all really doesn’t it?  What a day it was yesterday.  Crowd numbers were conservatively estimated at 5,000 with some saying 6,500 to others saying 7,000.  I can assure you as I walked through the densest part of this crowd that those estimates are pretty close. I arrived as Tony Abbott was finishing his speech and the wonderful, wonderful Grover was assisted onto the stage to speak, shattered as he was from his 9 day walk from Albury to Canberra for the cause.  As he spoke the crowd respectfully listened in silence and encouraged him as he faltered through his pain of exhaustion.  When he collapsed for the final time there was an audible “oh” from concerned attendees and he finally went off with his carers and family to a well deserved rest with his ears no doubt ringing with the ovation and loud cheers that followed him.

      Never will I forget the enormous ROAR of the crowd when Barnaby Joyce got up to speak.  It made my spine tingle and my ears ring and I was in the midst of those making the loudest cheers and ovations.  And what a dynamic speaker he was, reminding all of us of the communist socialism tendencies of this incumbent government and the potential consequences for us over the next 2 years.  He was given an enormous standing ovation when he departed and I saw one very disabled lady, with the help of her carer, stand on her feet and applaud with her heavily deformed arthritic hands.  I saw lots of others like that too.

      Warren Truss was the next speaker who received just as enthusiastic a welcome as Barnaby.  What stars are these two? Entertainment of a light nature was provided by impersonators of Bob Brown and Juliar Gillard and they had the crowd in uproarious laughter.  As with anything of a serious nature, a little light relief goes a very long way when you have such a large crowd and it worked a treat.  Peter Madden spoke as well and received a mighty welcome from the crowd as did a gentleman whose name I believe was Peter Nicholls who sang The Carbon Tax Song [The Carbon Tax Blues].  Hilarious, albeit serious.

      Now whilst all this was going on, this 5’2? Rubenesque woman was struggling to walk amongst the crowd to look at the people who had taken all this trouble to attend the Rally on buses and coaches, cars, campervans etc.  They were from all walks of life and all kinds of businesses, big and small.  Truckies, cattlemen, dairy farmers, beef producers, small grocery and deli businesses and market growers etc…There were senior citizens, both male and female both able and disabled.  Some in wheelchairs, some with walkers, others with walking sticks and a lot with severe arthritis as I could see from hands and feet.  There were great big men with strong arms and calloused hands carrying tall signs and small signs. There were grandmothers, mothers, daughters and their children along with their male partners and some alone.  They were from every age group imaginable.  They were well prepared:  picnic baskets, picnic blankets, thermoses, cold drinks, fruit [and I even saw a large block of chocolate being handed out], and this was spread out fairly evenly amongst this crowd along with chairs by the hundreds I’d say.  Some were dressed smartly, some smart casual, others in jeans and jumpers and still others, recognisable immediately as country men, wearing the traditional flannel check shirt with sleeves rolled up [without cigarettes packets rolled up within them]!  They cheered and listened alternatively as each speaker addressed them and applauded at the end.  What a polite bunch of people.  No ratbags here, no seditious, treasonous bogans; no red necks; no crazies.  One man with a “Ditch the Witch” sign got moved on thanks to the ever alert Peter Madden who handled the situation beautifully.

      The media were everywhere and I do mean everywhere.  Film recordists, sound recordists, interviewers etc.  Channels 7, 9 and Sky News I spotted along with Chris Smith of 2GB recording live.  At the front of the stage and throughout the crowd.  Within the crowd a multitude of phone cameras, video cams, digital cameras were busy being held aloft to record the event. Strangers talked to one another like friends of old and sharing a joke or two or three at Julia’s and Bob’s expense.  It was exhausting trying to “excuse me” my way across one side of this massive crowd to the other whilst at the same time trying to avoid picnics, people’s feet and chairs and picnic blankets.  But I loved every minute of it.

      I

    • John says:

      03:09pm | 19/08/11

      Are you channelling Goebbels, or perhaps the sycophantic newsreaders in the Marcos era Phillipinnes.

      Go and look up propaganda you silly old moo.

    • RyaN says:

      05:53pm | 19/08/11

      @John: You’re all class there John, unsurprising really.

    • Splash the cash says:

      10:30pm | 19/08/11

      Hey john,
      get use to a new era thats coming Of the silent Aussie Majority to kick Ass. and You I and All will abide by its outcome.

    • Julie Coker-Godson says:

      02:15pm | 19/08/11

      Continued on my previous post…...

      got to meet Chris Smith from 2GB personally and handed him the details of my infamy as printed out in full from The Canberra Times online forum RiotACT written by someone called Johnboy and who referred to us as “seditious, treasonous boguns who should be strung up”.  Underneath his comments others had posted that we should all be sent to the Tower of London for beheading and our heads stuck up on spikes on Traitors Gate.  Isn’t hea lovely man?  Such gentle thoughts he has!  Chris asked if he could have the print out and I said yes, of course and gave it to him.  I also met up with Allan Malcolm and Jeanette Hayden and spent time chatting with both.

      The programme had come to an end and people drifted off to return to their coaches for the return journey home, taking with them all their recordings of the days events and the memories they will provide in the future.  The Canberra Police did a sterling job with traffic on the day and CATA’s organisation of the event, particularly for the disabled participants was nothing short of amazing.  For this, CATA are to be heartily congratulated on a job well done.

      I have included some links in this article regarding yesterday’s Rally and, no doubt, there will be more to come as people post their own photos and records of the event.

      In closing I would like to say that I loved being amongst my fellow Australians yesterday.  I’ve never felt so proud to be one of them and joining them in a worthy cause – that of a fresh election and, hopefully, a better more competent and less arrogant government.

      All the best Julie

    • Martin says:

      03:44pm | 19/08/11

      Thanks Julie for that post. Nice to get a fair dinkum description of the happenings in Canberre rather than the twisted garbage from the thought police on here. Didn’t sound like there were too many weirdos in attendance, more like plenty of average people attending this type of thing for the first time in their life. I think its the idea of the average Joe turning up in such numbers that scares the Labor party and people that support their cause.  Its one thing to have the greenies, left wingers and the Get Up rent a crowd turn up and stage a protest. We expect that stuff from them,  For these people to care enough to attend would rattle the government, there is little doubt of that. They know that this is middle Australia saying no to this cabon tax, and that means electoral doom.

    • Rocket Rodney says:

      02:26pm | 19/08/11

      Who the hell is Tony Abbott?

    • James1 says:

      02:42pm | 19/08/11

      He’s the next PM.  Do try to keep up.

    • MarK says:

      02:53pm | 19/08/11

      The next PM of Australia and the most influential politician in Australia at the moment.

      You can tell this by all the publicity he gets from those that hate him.

      Desperate little snowflakes they are.

    • Rocket Rodney says:

      02:57pm | 19/08/11

      The next PM of what country?

    • Andrew says:

      03:22pm | 19/08/11

      He is a weightless colorless gas.

    • John A Neve says:

      03:35pm | 19/08/11

      MarkK,
      I don’t hate Tony, rather, I feel sorry for him. Six months after he gets into
      government, whenever that might be. You and those like you, will turn against him.

    • The Badger says:

      03:57pm | 19/08/11

      Tony Abbott is a power ranger from the dark side whose uniform is a pair of budgie smugglers and whose super power is negativity that he keeps within his boatphone weapon when not in use.
      His power ranger name is Dr. NO.

    • Mattb says:

      05:30pm | 19/08/11

      The political lovechild of George bush jnr and Sarah palin!

      Haha, nah, that’s a bit harsh. Tony Abbott is an Aussie bloke that loves his family, loves riding a bike, wearing budgie smugglers, god and any number of other things. Who knows?, how much do you know about the person sitting next to right now?, let alone Tony Abbott, someone most of us have never personally met. Crazy how we vote for these people to lead us, when in reality, we really have no idea who they REALLY are (that goes for all of them, not just Tony).

      Yet we spend time on blogs, such as this, defending them, their policies and the things they say based on our political preferences..

    • Julie Coker-Godson says:

      02:26pm | 19/08/11

      http://the-riotact.com/seditious-bogans-should-swing-for-this/52313

      You should read this.  According to Johnboy of the RiotACT, we are all seditious bogans…...and I am their emissary, according to him.  My email which he quotes in its entirety and my response are sufficient I think.

      Btw:  Anyone remember the storming of Parliament House in 1995???? Smashed glass doors, totally destroyed gift shop, staff and security officers injured?  Hmmmmmm.

      Well the Rally went off very well as in my article and I was there and walked amongst all these people for ages.

      You really should stop frothing at the mouth about signs Penbo, there have been effigies burnt of John Howard and Bronwyn Bishop.  Didn’t hear you complaining then.  Oh, and don’t forget the riots during the Vietnam protests where even police horses were targeted by thugs using ball bearings to throw under the horses feet.

      Nothing, I repeat, nothing like the peaceful rally on Tuesday the 16th.  Like I said, stop frothing at the mouth with feigned indignance.

    • ausspud says:

      02:30pm | 19/08/11

      Penbo-
      Yet another article focusing on the few and totally disregarding the majority.
      What is it with alot of jounalists these days, it reminds me of what happened in Cronulla a few years back,all you talk about was a hand full of idiots but hardly any mention that it was a very peacefull protest with over 5000 people or that it was started by the bashing of lifegaurds and abuse to white women by middle eastern idiots.
      Oh well

    • Jack says:

      03:19pm | 19/08/11

      CANBERRA will be squeezed to capacity next week when thousands of trucks and other vehicles converge on the nation’s capital in the Convoy of No Confidence.
      Just a warning Penbo, more hard working Australians are on their way.

      About 300 semi-trailers, caravans and cars from across Australia are expected to arrive in Goulburn on Sunday, before heading into Canberra the next day.

    • RyaN says:

      05:58pm | 19/08/11

      @Jack: We wait in eager anticipation of the next lame attempt to discredit. I can just imagine what the truckies will be labelled.

    • Splash the cash says:

      09:46pm | 19/08/11

      RyaN,
      The protesters who arrive in Cabberra demanding a new election and saying where the carbon tax can be shoved, REPRESENT the Aussie Majority.
      Get use to it buddy because the Aussie majority are going to flex some muscle and All will have to accept that.

    • RyaN says:

      09:16am | 21/08/11

      @Splash the cash: I think you misunderstood my comment, I was having a go at the media and the way they attempt to discredit this vocal majority.

    • Daniel says:

      06:00pm | 19/08/11

      Penbo interesting writing there. This is the type of thing that News Ltd actually fosters extremism in its raw form. I have never seen a bunch of crazies protest about totally nothing. They have the right to have their say but on what though? They want another election and they want Abbott to be the Prime Minister? They will have 2 years to do that if they are so keen they should help him campaign. As for why Abbott gets in front of this bunch of loonies is beyond me?

    • Robeert S McCormick says:

      06:01pm | 19/08/11

      It really is time for Australia to have a brand new political party bang smack in the middle of the political spectrum.
      What have we currently got?
      (A) Two major Partys the ALP & the Liberals
      (B) Two minor Partys the Greens & the Nationals
      &  (C) A few non-entities who have power well in excess of their voter-base or their intelligence.
      The ALP is thrououghly confused & they don’t know which way to jump. Rather than putting up policies & sticking to them they rely on “The Polls” & loud minorities to tell them what to do. Flip-flop is the only dance they know.
      The Liberals have become more extreme red-neck reactionaries as every day passes & daily they, just like the ALP, take their cues from just as loud minorities of which many are racists, xenophobes, inhumane male & female bastards.
      The Greens are so far out to the left they risk becoming ultra-right-wing fascists hell-bent on destroying our economy.
      The Nationals? What can we say about them? Political opportunists? A Senate Leader who actually thinks that a tiny minority of the population will prevent his daughters from marrying loving men! Really? How does he work that out? Or is it that he is frightened that the men his daughters might pick are all closet queers? About the only thing in their favour is that they do seem to be interested in our vitally important rural people.
      The rest? What about them? Irrelevant, mostly single-issue people, with a minute voter-base who will not hesitate to force their narrow - & god are they narrow - views on the rest of us. To the extent that they (wrongly) think they have the right to bring down any government which will not do exactly what they say. They are so stupid that they don’t realise that as the current Federal Parliament stands it is not up to the Minority Government to ensure the passage of any legislation whatsoever. That can only happen with the co-operation of the two major, dysfunctional, extraordinarily badly led parties the ALP & the Liberals!

    • PeterMax says:

      01:40pm | 20/08/11

      Hi Robert, please provide examples of .......” The Liberals have become more extreme red-neck reactionaries as every day passes…........” to back up your claim as it is news to me.

    • Wolf Schmidt says:

      08:37pm | 19/08/11

      Listen Mr. Pembo or is it Dumbo ?
      You are a well paid executive, who may well sneer at the masses.
      People are really hurting, with ever increasing charges of every bloody thing.
      We have not even been hit with the carbon tax yet, should that actually happen, more than a few shops will close.
      We will only be able to buy food, not much else.
      That lying scum in Canberra don’t give a fig for ordinary Australians,
      they are on a good wicket.
      It is the I am alright Jack syndrome all over.
      We happen to be pensioners and are terrified at our savings evaporating
      at a great rate of knots, just trying to pay our never ending bills on time.
      There is nothing for eating out, entertainment etc.
      Others are in the same boat, go into any shopping center and look at the empty shops.
      But it may be too much for you to get off your fat arse.

    • james III says:

      08:47pm | 19/08/11

      Penbo you are that far out of the loop when it concerns the feeling in the community it is frightening.

      This Govt is simply appalling.  Why you cannot understand that average Aussies have had a gutfull is beyond belief.

      Your demonising of average Aussie pensioners and workers prepared to spend their hard earned to make a protest is despicable.

      This Govt is as close to evil as we have ever had in Australia’s history.

    • Kafir says:

      08:54pm | 19/08/11

      This year U.S. overall greenhouse gas output, rose 213 million tonnes, or 3.9% (reference: http://news.cnet.com/greentech/)
      Australian yearly carbon dioxide emission is estimated at 399 million tones a year. Yes, their 4% rise represents 50% of our total pollution. USA did it to keep the economy going strong. From those figures you can see how insignificant 5% reduction in Australia would be and how demoralizing the tax is for the industry. It is just TAX without any benefit to global environment; an industry crippling policy.

    • St. Nick says:

      09:05pm | 19/08/11

      I hate the number of people who can not get the basics of ‘thinking for themselves’ right. Please ditch all references to flat-earthers when talking about sceptics. That the church tried to convince Columbus that the world was flat was fiction made up about 200 years ago by Washington Irving. He also invented Santa Claus, sort of. It is all Encyclopedia stuff that you can look up for yourself.

      Despite that no historian had fell for it, this supposed fact was taught in American schools and is still being taught in Australian schools in the 21st century, as an example of not believing in dogma but needing to think for yourself.

      See what can be achieved by rewarding a poor but desperate academic with a career for spreading BS.

    • Fortune Dagger says:

      09:14pm | 19/08/11

      Errgghh.

      Penbo, II reckon I’m on the other side of te fence han you, but here I am again, reading your oped and furiously nodding through every paragraph… perhaps I’m turning into a grumpy old bag, but DITTO!

      Next time I’m in Sydney we should have coffee and a bloody yarn.

    • Stan says:

      12:52am | 20/08/11

      Pembo, stop drinking!! Your brain is dissolving. These protestors were regular Australians, they are warning the country against the greatest act of self mutilation with the impending introduction of the carbon tax, they were not saying extreme things.  If you want to observe nut jobs wackos and freaks, check out Gillard, Swan, Brown, Oakshott, Windsor et al. These people are as usefull as the proverbial ashtray on a motor bike. I suggest you do some personal research on the latest experimental evidence concerning AGW, and if you still think the AGW scam is a slam dunk, continue your drinking.

    • PeterinSydney says:

      05:48am | 20/08/11

      Penbo I bet you will no longer be on Alan Jones’ Christmas Card list!!!!!

    • Futurelegend says:

      07:55am | 20/08/11

      Who’d want to be on that old Queens Christmas card list. Oh!!! shock!!!! Horror!!!! You didn’t know he was GAY!!!! A right wing public broadcaster who is also GAY!!!! Ask Alan What he thinks about GAY marriage? Ask Alan who hit the streets and demonstrated and fought for the rights he now enjoys as a GAY man? Respect for Alan Jones? Are you serious? That hypocrite!!!!

    • podreda says:

      01:53pm | 20/08/11

      When Alan Jones was compromisingly caught in a men’s toilet in England while touring with the RU team I wonder what self-serving spin he put on that? The Looney-tunes band of followers he has probably don’t mind his proclivities yet they cast aspersions on Brown because he’s gay.
      Perhaps Abbott should be asked if he supports gay marriage, two gay people, (same sex), adopting children, or abortion. Now there’s some good stuff for a rally. Abbott and Jones defending the rights of Aussies to what ever they like with their own minds and bodies as long as no-one is hurt in the process. Except the foetus of course.
      Referring to our P.M. as a “bitch” or a “witch” seems acceptable to some wierdos posting here but what about the choice of Jones as the de facto adviser to the LOO, (Leader of Opposition) in the Parliament.
      Does Abbott then become “Jones’s Bitch”?
      Not very nice, is it.
      We all know that we are judged, rightly or wrongly, by the company we keep. Jones, the Looney-tune brigade, the Young Liberals rent-a-crowd,
      they are the bedfellows Abbott chooses, and by such we shall know him. Throw in a bit of the pagan rites he regularly practices and we have the man entire. And he is the Lib’s best? Goodness gracious me.

    • Futurelegend says:

      05:05pm | 20/08/11

      Well said Podreda. So refreshing to read your comments in amongst these Crosby Textor/Young Liberal stooges and their flatulent propaganda.

    • Christian Real says:

      09:41pm | 20/08/11

      Peterin in Syney
      Who in their right mind would even want to be on Alan Jones Christmas card list, except of course Tony Abbott .

    • John says:

      06:27am | 20/08/11

      RyaN. Rather class than arse. S’matter?  You righties can dish it out but can’t eat it?  Or has your political correctness gone mad?  For the record Coker-whatsit said she was ‘Rubenesque’. No. She’s fat and ought eat sensibly and get more exercise and stop sponging off MY taxes via medicare.

    • Enrico says:

      10:59am | 20/08/11

      But, if the earth isn’t flat, why don’t i keep tipping over?

    • stephen says:

      08:24pm | 20/08/11

      But you have.
      The stones near your
      eyes is your life.
      Breathe, and see dust snore.

    • stephen says:

      08:14pm | 20/08/11

      What should surprie no-one is that not one Politician has an iota of an idea about Culture.
      Not one. And it comes out, not in speech, but in presentation, and that any of them need a mentor, or an advisor, means that they are not the goods.
      Of course, having a leader who knows everything smacks of the Fuhrer, (who actually knew nothing - isn’t that irony ? - yet some are still scared of a future dummkopf) but it’s getting to the stage now where this country,(and the West, I might add) had better raise their standards, everywhere, elsewise we’ll be begging the Saudis to bake our cakes.

    • Little Kev says:

      10:03pm | 20/08/11

      For all those saying this Convoy is about being fed up with the drop in our living standards, increasing costs, etc, I wonder where you all were when the first Workplace Relations Act went through in 1996, or when the 457 visa was introduced, or the GST put your electricity, gas and water up 10% overnight, or the free trade agreement with the US was signed giving US companies rights on par with or greater than those enjoyed by Aussies…don’t tell me, your pockets were just fine so you didn’t notice, right?  And it was the Libs, so that makes it ok?

    • mick says:

      10:43pm | 20/08/11

      This rally was one fuelled by hate and Tony Abbott who was more than likely at the forefront should be ashamed.  And this is the Australian who some would make our Prime Minister.
      Since the Mining Tax Abbott has been in there batting for the top end of town.  As much as people are screaming for jobs one needs to bear in mind that this is a scare campaign initiated by the top end of town to frighten (feeble minded) Australians into submission.  The sad thing is that I think it is working.
      People need to read between the lines.  They are not all going to lose their jobs and the supposed huge cost increases are a myth conjured up to make us all agree to another election to change an elected government. 
      In the end controlling carbon is going to be the key to SURVIVAL and its twin (population) now needs to be brought into the argument so that people reach agreement as to when enough is enough.
      As much as the Labor government is also not pretty the alternative is worse.In the end people will need to make up their own minds if it is a big business led government which looks after its benefactors or a peoples government they want.  Good luck and don’t complain if we all get what we deserve.

    • Little Kev says:

      11:22pm | 20/08/11

      It is amazing that companies turning in tens of billions in profits which increase exponentially quarter by quarter can cry poor and people fall for it.  Any change that doesn’t line their pockets is the end of the world. You won’t see a bigger bunch of hysterical ninnies anywhere else outside the stock market. The impact of the carbon tax will be minimal quite simply because they will pass the costs on (hence the plans to provide tax relief to the rest of us).  The shareholders won’t even notice.

      The real motivator for the Convoy, however, appears to be conservative sentiments which see both the tax and climate change as a some sort of pinko greenie conspiracy.  Ignorance knows no bounds.

    • neil says:

      11:46pm | 20/08/11

      So which Labor faction do you belong to?

      Trolls are pathetic.

    • Real Aussie, says:

      06:27am | 22/08/11

      Tony Abbott does not care about or has ever cared about the ordinary Australian people, the workers and the ‘aussie battlers’, once he gets your vote he will drop you all like a dirty oily rag that can no longer be of any use.
      Tony Abbott has and always will care about himself,his rich mining mates,big business and the shock jock twins of a Sydney radio station that does his bidding on a daily basis Monday to Friday.
      The show pony, Mr “Don’t believe everything I say” Abbott is a disgrace to even call himself a leader, he is a Traitor, and should be charged for treason, because he is causing civil unrest and he is deliberately trying to overthrow an elected Government.
      The hate rallies fuelled by Abbott have no place in Australia,and should not or would not be condoned by any decent Australian
      It is time Abbott was no only removed as Leader of the Liberal party, but charged for treason as well.

    • Splash the cash says:

      03:01am | 21/08/11

      Mick,
      You are wrong,
      this proposed model of the carbon tax does little or nothing to reduce emmissions, as costs will be passed on and consumers to be compensated, therefore no incentive for anyone at all.
      With the increased costs, industries will become uncompetitive and therefore, possible job losses.
      The Sad thing would be when some Poor Bastard who has to support his wife and kids, is out of work.
      Can you just imagine the Misery and Heartache you impose on that household., because of this Bullshit Policy.
      P.S i had a robust discussion with some unoin officials, but when i raised this question about job losses, there was silence and there was no response from them.
                    I knew there and then that jobs wouldl be lost.

    • podrida says:

      10:06am | 21/08/11

      Well Splash I reckon you’ve got the game sown up. Did you talk to those union bosses using capital letters, so as to really convince them of your interest? Which union was it? You forgot to say.
      Did you stop to think that, in order to reduce costs that the industries might cut their emissions? No? Didn’t fit your silly little rant?
      When you got silence, (and also no response) from the bosses do you think it might have been that they, (like me), didn’t want to hear your Abbott-like fear-mongering?
      How do you suggest we control the pollutants that are presently affecting the health of our loved ones? Try Kembla, Port Pirie, Whyalla Newcastle, Gladstone and hundreds of other similar situations.
      Or do you simply not care, as long as the rednecks get the power that they crave so badly. You are really a very sad little man. Parroting Abbott is really scraping the bottom of the debate barrel.

    • Splash the cash says:

      08:45pm | 21/08/11

      Pordia,
      The silence i got and no response was only when the question of job losses was raised.
      No it is not a silly little rant , but your way of thinking is the wrong way.I mean dont ypu think industries already practice reducing costs now to maximise profits and this carbon tax will be passed on.
      Tell your views then to the poor bastard who loses his job.
      Or do you simply dont care of the misery and heartache your views impose on families.
      P.S for your info.  i do care for the enviroment as i recently planted 6000 native trees on my farm.
      We are not rednecks, but we are the Aussie majority and will always oppose bad policies on both sides of politics and the majority Frendo will ALWAYS rule whether you agree or not..

    • Tony says:

      03:24am | 21/08/11

      Penberthy, the same moron who urged us all to vote Rudd in the 2007 election. Need we say more?

    • Nana says:

      08:17am | 21/08/11

      You are a very clever man. You have realised that you can get most responses by writing this inflammatory garbage to incite people to send their comments. Polls show that 73% of the population will be opposed to your comments so you ensure that you get many blogs.  I, for one will in future read valid, educated columnists.

    • Bilbo says:

      01:03pm | 21/08/11

      “The real motivator for the Convoy, however, appears to be conservative sentiments which see both the tax and climate change as a some sort of pinko greenie conspiracy.  Ignorance knows no bounds. ”
      Sadly the majority of the responses to the original article tend to confirm its accuracy. It is obvious that many mistakenly believe that we have a US system of government. There is a lot of interest in the non criminal use of a Labor MP’s credit card however not a mention of the Coalition MP facing criminal charges over shop lifting.

    • James says:

      11:14am | 23/08/11

      Does anyone seriously believe that the angry folk of the convoy of something-or-other represent the majority of Australians?

    • Obob says:

      02:56pm | 24/08/11

      Those Damn People, A Totalitarian Lament

      The pesky masses have done it again.

      From the point of view of the media and intellectual elite, the convoy to Canberra is the last straw.

      Julia Gillard and her ministerial colleagues looked out at the trucks surrounding Parliament House and concluded that the people are beyond redemption.

      Don’t be fooled by the dismissive comments of the likes of Craig Emerson and Anthony Albanese, who described the protest as, ‘a convoy of no consequence’.

      They know that the electorate has turned against them.

      A mandate for the carbon dioxide tax?

      Don’t be silly.

      The masses don’t know what is good for them.

      The level of carbon indulgences is best decided through the messianic insights of the inner city elite.

      As Lenin would have asked, what is to be done?

      Gillard, the Greens and the witless Oakeshott and Windsor have decided.

      They will impose the carbon dioxide tax on the people.

      Overwhelming opposition will simply be proof that the people have failed the Government and failed Australia.

      This brings to mind that famous poem by Bertolt Brecht, which may be described as a totalitarian lament.

      After the uprising in East Germany against Communist rule in June 1953, he wrote as follows:

      The Solution

      After the uprising of the 17th June
      The Secretary of the Writer’s Union
      Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee
      Stating that the people
      Had forfeited the confidence of the government
      And could win it back only
      By redoubled efforts.  Would it not be easier
      In that case for the government
      To dissolve the people
      And elect another?

    • Craigo says:

      03:19pm | 24/08/11

      Pass me the union credit card, I’m gunna get me some hookers

    • Ron Vincent says:

      04:30pm | 24/08/11

      Well I’ve made a very easy decision David LABORITE Penberthy and that is to not read anymore of your rubbish. Beats me how anyone could think that you can be treated as realistic. You obviously think that it’s OK for unions to create havoc but not OK for ordinary Australians to demonstrate against one of the most inept, hopeless governments this country has ever known.
      Ron V.

    • Mick says:

      10:57am | 25/08/11

      Abbott is so ON TRACK that the critics are the outraged ones! Funny, isn’t it?

    • Obob says:

      10:27am | 26/08/11

      Fabian Socialist Juliar Liehard’s $650 BILLION (Yes BILLION)  Giveaway

      Her devious plans to bankrupt Australia are on track!

      That will be throwing away nearly $30,000 for every Australian, about $120,000 for a family of four.
      Aug 26, 2011
      The Gillard Government can’t possibly be serious:

      AUSTRALIAN businesses and households will have to send about $650 BILLION overseas between 2020 and 2050 to buy permission to keep some of our coal-fired power stations and other industries operating.

      This staggering cost is indicated in the fine print of the Treasury modelling of the Government’s carbon dioxide tax and subsequent emissions trading scheme.

      The $650 billion will be to buy “permits” to emit CO2.

      The permits will be bought from sellers that don’t yet exist, or in markets that have yet to be formed, although the Government expects - hopes - they will develop over the next few years.

      But this week it was reported that European police agency Europol had revealed a fraudulent trade in these so-called carbon credits in the only serious market that does operate - for the European Union - was far more widespread than previously thought and could have cost EU taxpayers up to €5 billion ($7 billion) in lost revenue in just 18 months…

      Even without any rorting, the impact on the economy of this part of the scheme will be exactly like taking $650 billion and shredding it.

      That will be throwing away nearly $30,000 for every Australian, about $120,000 for a family of four.

      These wasted funds could build 15 National Broadband Networks.
      They could build a fast train network linking every capital city five or six times over. 


      http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business/staggering-cost-of-co2-permits-revealed/story-fn7j19iv-1226122430767

    • George says:

      12:31pm | 26/08/11

      Coverups, Intimidation, Juliar Liehard’s Leftist/Warmist Labor Is Completely Out Of Control
      Augt 26, 2011
      Today is a turning point in the Thomson affair. An argument about what one MP allegedly did with his work credit card is now about a rottenness at the heart of Labor.

      We’ve already seen the Gillard Government covering up for Thomson and Labor giving him $90,000. Was that an inducement to an MP? A payment to buy his slience?

      Today, though, it gets a whole lot worse.

      We have a report that the Labor/union factions headed by Bill Shorten and Steve Conroy, both senior ministers, are threatening to punish the Health Services Union for reporting the allegations against Craig Thomson to the police. This, if true, strikes me as an attempt to subvert justice. It stinks of a cover up. I do not say that Shorten and Conroy authorised this threatened pay-back, but they must now publicly repudiate it.

      And overnight a dirt-covered shovel is left outside the door of HSU secretary Kathy Jackson, who was home alone.

      What we are witnessing is more like scenes from a mafia vendetta, not the processes of a responsible government.

      The Gillard Government is completely out of control. Gillard must resign to let a strong and capable leader take her place and restore order.

      http://www.theage.com.au/national/thomson-row-sparks-alp-brawl-20110825-1jcqd.html

    • Slazenger Cricket says:

      03:08pm | 05/09/11

      Sports today is the most lovable field for youngsters, the youngsters in Australia are highly interested in cricket and want to buyhttp://www.triforcesports.com.au/Shipping.aspx “] Slazenger Cricket [/url]products from good website. I am also among them; I was searching for cricket products when I got your website that is really outstanding in its content, design and layout. Keep it up

 

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