Punchers enjoyed a carbon-tax-free week last week, but with many people still angry about the policy, we’re getting back into the discussion with gusto. Its opponents say the carbon tax will ruin the economy, cost jobs, hurt families and make the Spice Girls get back together, so what’s the alternative?

Cartoon: Bill Leak

What is Tony Abbott’s Direct Action Plan for Climate Change?

The Direct Action Plan is a Coalition policy designed to reduce carbon emissions through Government-funded incentives without the need for an economy-wide carbon price.  The policy allows industry to sell carbon abatement back to the Government and also includes funding for widespread soil-carbon, solar and tree-planting initiatives. 

Will Direct Action reduce bureaucracy?

Yes. Direct Action will require far less bureaucracy than the carbon tax.  Under Direct Action, the Government will simply allocate taxpayers’ money to innovations that it thinks are most efficient, removing the need for millions of middle-men known as “the market”.

How is Direct Action more efficient than a carbon market?

In a market, cost is set where the supply and demand curves overlap.  Direct Action will remove these costly overlaps.

Do many economists support the policy?

No. However, supporters of Direct Action believe this can be explained by a common error in the carbon debate called “Group-think”.  “Group-think” is the principle that states the closer a group of experts come to agreement on a topic, the more likely it is that they are all inexplicably wrong.  Direct Action is based on the corollary of “group-think”; good policy should be endorsed by those least qualified to understand it.

How much will Direct Action cost?

In order to maintain budget integrity, Tony Abbott has promised that all new Government spending will be offset by tax cuts.  Although details have not yet been released, the Coalition is expected to simplify the income tax system into three brackets; battlers, strugglers and Cate Blanchett.

Where will the new trees be planted under Direct Action?

Direct Action calls for an immediate audit of “available public space” for “urban forests”.  The vacant land beside highways is cited in Direct Action as a potential site for reforestation.  Amazingly, thousands of Australians drive directly beside this land everyday and no one has thought to put large, immovable objects there.

Will Direct Action create jobs?

Yes. Direct Action contains a provision for a 15,000 strong “Green Army” of conservationists eager to help Tony Abbott realise his environmental vision. 

Why was Tony Abbott calling for a plebiscite?

Officially, he wants to ask Australians if they support a carbon tax, although to get 15,000 conservationists to join his army he may also need to reinstate the draft.

Tony Abbott recently said the target of 5 per cent emissions reduction by 2020 was ‘crazy’.  How can we be sure the coalition is serious about the target?

A Productivity Commission review recently found that Government-funded incentive schemes such as Direct Action deliver abatement at the highest cost. Thus, to prove just how committed it is to the 5 per cent reduction target, the Coalition has chosen the most expensive way to reach it.

Can Direct Action be supported by people who don’t believe in climate change?

Yes. Opposition environment spokesman Greg Hunt has said he expects people who don’t believe in climate change will still support the Coalition spending tens of billions of dollars on soil-carbon replenishment.  Although Direct Action is not broadly supported by economists, climate-scientists or environmentalists, it has been extremely well received amongst climate change-sceptical soil-fertility alarmists.

What’s next for Direct Action?

Tony Abbott vows to fight Labor’s carbon tax, which he has labelled “socialism masquerading as environmentalism”.  In order to protect Australia from socialism, Tony Abbott must install a centrally-planned system of carbon abatement by inciting the working-class to a “people’s revolt”.

186 comments

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    • Erick says:

      05:54am | 02/08/11

      Can we have a carbon-tax-free month next time? A week just isn’t enough.

    • ZSRenn says:

      06:54am | 02/08/11

      After this rubbish article I would have to agree with you Erick.

      Shame Punch Shame!

      Here at the start of the debate again you had a perfect opportunity to put some balance and to give both sides of the debate equal opportunity in a fresh start. Yesterday you gave an obvious supporter of the Carbon Tax full say.

      Yet today we have Direct Action as a puff piece by a comedian who for mine is not that funny and lowering the standard of the debate, ridiculing those of us that take this debate seriously and spend many hours to make their point.

      Those of us that know this Carbon Tax is a big problem and care for Australia.

      Shame Punch Shame!

    • Damian Parkhill says:

      07:31am | 02/08/11

      Agree with Erick - for a week it seemed like people were almost ready to be civil to each other, now we start the week with this troll bait….....

      This is not going to end well

    • Cry in my Gin says:

      08:14am | 02/08/11

      What Erick said.

    • Elphaba says:

      09:19am | 02/08/11

      Agreed.

      There’s 2 years left to fight about this, a month won’t kill them…

    • Against the Man says:

      09:20am | 02/08/11

      The only people that believe it is troll bait are people that can’t debate, have no valid points to support the carbon tax.

      The vast majority of this country won’t allow this carbon tax debate to go away. That is what makes a democracy. Head due North to North Korea if you want to bury issues and live under a dictatorship.

      Game, set, match!

    • Damian Parkhill says:

      09:30am | 02/08/11

      @Atm

      “The only people that believe it is troll bait are people that can’t debate”

      Yet it brings you out time and time again!

      Back under the bridge with you!

    • andye says:

      09:32am | 02/08/11

      @Erick - Finally an article about the OTHER plan and you want to end this?

    • Bruce says:

      10:02am | 02/08/11

      There will be NO carbon tax under a government I lead !!! Says it all.

    • The righteous one says:

      10:58am | 02/08/11

      @ZSRenn,A comedian? and here I was thinking he was Tony’s long denied love child soon to be featured on “Find my Family”
      @Bruce,  “Never believe anything I say unless it’s written on paper” even then it’s debatable

    • Joel says:

      02:14pm | 02/08/11

      A balanced argument. Why should he when neither the Co-alition nor most of you are looking for a balanced debate. I hope you are all putting your hand up to plant some trees when the time comes. Oh, that’s right, climate change doesn’t exist.

    • Knemon says:

      03:20pm | 02/08/11

      @ ZSRenn - You need a Bex and a good lie down.

      It was satire, the article was humorous, some people need to lighten up.

    • Joe says:

      03:30pm | 02/08/11

      Scott, until you and your fellow carbon tax supporters start demanding a referendum on the carbon tax you will never have any credibility whatsoever. So please stop clogging up the media outlets with garbage.

    • Bob says:

      06:19am | 02/08/11

      Congraulations on some iInventive slanders. The next election will as always be about trust. Who do Australians trust to run their economy and society? For this reason I forsee art least three years of bitterness and anger for you Scott. I expect this unfortunate period to commence in 2014. Sorry mate!

    • acotrel says:

      06:52am | 02/08/11

      Don’t look to the LNP if you want infrastructure development!  Their record is poor because they are so paranoid about spending.  There is a basic rule in industry, ‘spend a dollar to make a dollar’ - the LNP has never learnt it!

    • Tedd says:

      07:06am | 02/08/11

      No, way. Ya see, Scott is one of Tony’s long lost love-children that stands a good chance of coming back into the fold.

    • iansand says:

      07:10am | 02/08/11

      Dunno.  Would you trust a scientist or a voodoo priest?

    • acotrel says:

      07:32am | 02/08/11

      I’m a scientist, but I really love aromatherapy! It’ll cure climate change!

    • Fiddler says:

      08:13am | 02/08/11

      acotrel - spend a dollar to make a dollar isn’t in the ALP’s vocab either, more like spend a few billion, make nothing and when this starts to be noticed point in the distance “oh look something shiny” then change leaders and repeat

    • L. says:

      08:17am | 02/08/11

      “There is a basic rule in industry, ‘spend a dollar to make a dollar’ - the LNP has never learnt it! “

      This offsets the Labor party mentality which is “spend a 100 Billion doallrs to make a deficit”.

    • I hate pies says:

      08:44am | 02/08/11

      Isn’t most public infrastructure controlled by the states…who have been under the control of labour governments for the bulk of the past decade.

    • andye says:

      09:34am | 02/08/11

      @Bob - good to see you focussing on what is important here: your own feeling of personal vindication.

    • Jeremy says:

      10:06am | 02/08/11

      I trust my mum, but she’s never on the form!

    • Flavian Hardcastle says:

      10:39am | 02/08/11

      “The next election will as always be about trust. “

      Will Tony Abbott trust the Treasury to see his election costings this time?

      “Who do Australians trust to run their economy and society?”

      Well the economists are spruiking for Gillard over Abbott.

    • Nafe says:

      04:40pm | 02/08/11

      Actorel, Maybe the LNP’s mantra is right in A doller saved is a doller earnt.

      It’s much better to have 20 Billion coming in the bank a year rather than 8 Billion on Interest alone. Imagine 10 years of earning 20 Billion plus interest.

      Instead of borrowing for infustructure, the money would actually be there ready to build it when needed. without the added expense of interest payments.

      But that makes too much sence now doesn’t it.

      Would you prefer us to be in the US situation where we need to borrow just to be able to survive. It is actually unsustainable to borrow to pay interest.

    • Gary Cox says:

      06:27am | 02/08/11

      I don’t believe in climate change so I think both policies are unnecessary, however at least direct action doesn’t punish industry while claiming to get the same result as the carbon tax. I know that there is a cost to taxpayers but I still think it is better than jacking up costs and taxes on industry that may well lead to them closing up shop and moving overseas causing unemployment, loss of productivity and all the rest of if. A few more trees around the place has got to be a good thing too.

    • TomTom says:

      07:17am | 02/08/11

      @ Gary Cox

      I am not sure about climate change but I believe we should clean up the environment. Like you, direct action doesn’t punish industry, it however will encourage them to improve or innovate for a cleaner greener energy. They are doing it now. Scott is wrong it won’t cost $10 billions it is capped @ $3 billion what the Coalition thinks the nation can afford. Affordability is the word here. Why spend so much money on something that scientists and economists may later find that what they said today could be improved or discarded tomorrow to make it cost effective. Whatever, the future holds, the $3 billion spent on direct action will be well spent. Gillard’s scheme also includes direct action, it should be stressed. Also should be stressed, people are already tightening their belts they cannot tighten it anymore, which makes climate change the last thing on their minds. The vast majority are just angry with Gillard Labor for allowing the Greens and Independents to water down the carbon tax/climate change ‘whatever’ to discredit what Abbott had been saying before the details came out. If they were really serious about climate change we would have 1000 so called big polluters instead of 500, petrol wouldn’t be exempted, there would be no compensation and the list goes on.

      People out there that want the carbon tax but dislike Gillard, will vote Coalition because they know it will with 100% certainty will be legislated in such a way that it is Abbott proof if he becomes PM. Either way Gillard loses.

      Gillard Labor should start governing with Labor values to save the Labor brand, ditch the ridiculous deals Gillard made with the Greens and Independents, done so she remains PM.

    • Rocksteady says:

      07:23am | 02/08/11

      Hang on Gary, both parties are trying to achieve the same goal of 5%, the productive commission and common sense says its more cost effective to do it through a market based mechanism. How do you think it is better for the economy to do it via handouts to business? And what funding should we cut tens of billions of $$ to pay for it? Hospitals? Education? Defence?

      How is it fair that taxpayers should pay twice as much in corporate subsidies compared to what business would pay in carbon taxes? (most of eventually gets passed onto the consumer).

      If Tony Abbott is serious about not raising taxes some other way to pay for it then we will end up with 3rd world hospitals and schools in order to bribe polluters to change their ways. Direct action isjust not efficient.

    • Big Bad Property Developer says:

      07:24am | 02/08/11

      I have personally seen the cost to householders/homebuyers/society of these nonsense green schemes, ecology, townplanning idealistic constraints.  Totally out of control.  I eat my greens (like Julia told me to do), but a whole truckload of spinach a day is giving me indigestion.  We must stop catering to every thought bubble of the green army. 
      Bureaucracy costs our society, everyone pays for this idiocy.

    • ZSRenn says:

      08:10am | 02/08/11

      @ Rocksteady See Sophie Mirabella’s article today. There is $36 billion saving to used right there. Gt rid of the pollution police the three levels of the bureaucracy. The extra funding to the limp ICAC

      Just stop the fucking waste of this bullshit government and problem solved. But you welded on’s just don’t want to hear that do you despite how many times you’re told it.

      You just want to run your scare campaign about the money coming out of hospitals (When is that deal finalized by the way) education (13 million on 20 schools soon to be closed)

      There is plenty of money too be saved from bullshit labor policies if they haven’t wasted the lot by 2013.

    • L. says:

      08:27am | 02/08/11

      “what funding should we cut tens of billions of $$ to pay for it? Hospitals? Education? Defence?”

      That’s easy.. cut the $10 Billion Green’s slush fund.

      Problem solved.

    • Adam Diver says:

      09:15am | 02/08/11

      It is an interesting argument. Personally when public sentiment moves away from carbon dioxide world desrtuction I assume the Libs will drop this policy.

      There are a couple of points about this policy,

      1. It has real environmental benefits, beyond carbon dioxide emmissions. Although its still a waste of money.

      2. The problem with a carbon tax on polluters, is that it drives manufacturing and jobs off shore where possible. Direct action, is spending funds to keep jobs here, whilst making them less pollutant.

      3. Its a liberal party policy, who have shown a history of balancing the budget. So its a question of trust, do I want shit policy A or shit policy B, both costing billions, both completely pointless, but one likely to be budgeted correctly.

    • Jane says:

      10:20am | 02/08/11

      @Adam Diver, Abbot has said he will drop it only if there is a global shift in sentiment which miners are paying to facilitate, judging by the Rinehart funded Monckton trip and TV campaigns and crying for the richest of the rich . However we have made a pledge to reduce by 5% by 2020 so any government has to meet that target else risk the country huge sums in catch up if further delays. Business prefers now rather than later.
      @TomTom Direct Action will be far more costly as per Treasury costing and equal $62 per tonne. The money will have to come from somewhere. Massive public sector job losses will hurt “slower"areas of the economy rather than mining jobs where they struggle to fill positions vacant anyway. there is nothing good about it,no expert support, numbers do not add up, science unproven. Joke policy, they could not go to an election with it. Probably end up back with a carbon tax.

    • Andrew says:

      11:27am | 02/08/11

      @Zsrenn, actually there isnt 36bn, the libs are committed to spending 12-14bn on fibre to the node, and maybe a few more bn on some towers.

      I am concerned that direct action could cost a lot more if we have to increase the 5% target.

    • ZSRenn says:

      01:04pm | 02/08/11

      @ Andrew obviously you are still believing the figures that Julia and team put up as cost of these projects are anywhere near what they say they will be.

      It reminds me of a younger day when we used to ride our bikes up the Putty Road between Windsor and Singleton. We had a theory that on the mad 16km stretch you could look at a recommended speed sign on a corner double it and add 10 and that is closer to the speed the corner could be ridden at.

      Same as Julia’s figures double them and add 10 million and your closer to the actual cost.

    • Andrew says:

      02:23pm | 02/08/11

      So how much will their plan cost then? Just tearing ones sides down without providing the details for the alternative isn’t helping me decide which plan is best.

    • B says:

      09:53am | 03/08/11

      @Jane

      Ohh the conspiracy of the Miners!!  They have all bained together to stop the big bad greenies from saving the planet!!!  Give me a break!

      Goes to show your knowledge of this is insufficient.  The Globe has NOT been significantly warming.  Some actual research to shoot down your lies:

      The National Space Science and Technology centre: http://vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/public/msu/t2lt/tltglhmam_5.2

      Im not going to graph it or interpret it for you.  You should be able to do that yourself.

    • SydSteve says:

      03:28pm | 03/08/11

      @ B

      It’s no conspiracy. The mining companies fund the organisation that Monkton works for. The organisation then pays him a salary and he preaches on their behalf.

    • B says:

      03:49pm | 03/08/11

      @SydSteve
      So its not a conspiracy because you say so?  But the fact that scientists collude to hide empirical evidence to get government grants is a conspiracy???  Its quite common knowledge that without climate change alot of “psuedo-scientists (Climatologists)” wont have a pay packet.  The hypocrisy of the left is sooooo obvious.

      PS:  Noticed you didnt try and refute my actual sourced data on this issue that PROVES global warming is a myth!!!  Here it is again for anyone who missed it:

      The National Space Science and Technology centre: http://vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/public/msu/t2lt/tltglhmam_5.2

      Im not going to graph it or interpret it for you.  You should be able to do that yourself.

    • Jason Todd says:

      06:28am | 02/08/11

      “[G]ood policy should be endorsed by those least qualified to understand it.”

      Hh. But then how can they tell the difference between a good policy and a bad policy if they don’t understand either? Or is this suggesting that if you understand a policy, then it is a bad policy?

    • Shifter says:

      02:16pm | 02/08/11

      I think that phrase is suggesting that the persons in question understand it but are the of the lowest intelligence able to do so.

      The crux is the actual endorsement makes it good policy, not the understanding. Whether a person understands the policy is not relevant to it’s ‘goodness’.

      Having said that, I don’t believe that the understanding of policy should be the domain of the elite as we have a compulsory vote. The understanding of policy should be paramount, rather the endorsement that follows.

    • acotrel says:

      06:36am | 02/08/11

      If the state government EPAs had been doing their jobs, and fining polluters, we’d be already paying the ‘carbon tax’!  Why don’t we provide the EPA inspectors with cheque books, and when they find a polluter, they can give him a cheque to fix the problem?

    • L. says:

      08:29am | 02/08/11

      “If the state government EPAs had been doing their jobs, and fining polluters, we’d be already paying the ‘carbon tax’!”

      Ummm…. CO2 was always an EPA recognised pollutant..? How do you fine a company for something you don’t recognise as “pollution”..??

    • AnthonyG says:

      06:43am | 02/08/11

      I see the punch has pulled out the big guns this week in favour of a carbon tax, The brainwashed kiddies.Its a Numpty fest

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      09:50am | 02/08/11

      It’s a numpty fest? Nobody told me the Liberal Party National Conference was on…..

    • andye says:

      10:50am | 02/08/11

      @AnthonyG - After the constant stream of media criticising it, you are upset there is an article illuminating the other argument and you are upset? How precious.

    • Super D says:

      06:51am | 02/08/11

      Once key question which is never asked when comparing the policies is:

      If CO2 induced climate change turns out to be a nonsense, which policy will be easier to unwind? 

      The answer is of course direct action, followed by a carbon tax, followed by the Government’s preferred emissions trading scheme.

      The precautionary principle is often used to justify action on climate change - in my opinion if you are using a balance of probability argument to demand action your solutions must also recognise the lack of certainty.  From this viewpoint an ETS is an epic fail.  The carbon crash of 2035 will not be fun for all those who are members of industry super funds investing in carbon abatement.

    • acotrel says:

      07:29am | 02/08/11

      It was 50 degrees celsius in Iraq yesterday!

    • L. says:

      08:30am | 02/08/11

      “It was 50 degrees celsius in Iraq yesterday!”

      Is that a historical high temp record, or just a typical Iraqi summer day..?

    • ZSRenn says:

      08:37am | 02/08/11

      @ actoral The highest recorded was 57c in 2004 so I guess the world is cooling.

    • iansand says:

      09:35am | 02/08/11

      Has anyone been following the progress of summer in the east of the US?  Not that one season proves much.

    • JohnB says:

      06:52am | 02/08/11

      Nothing any government does will stop all the fossil fuels being used. The cost of alternatives is way higher. It’s like leaving the kids at home with a bowl of cauliflower and timtams in the fridge….You’re not coming home to any timtams and an empty bowl of cauliflower. So an intelligent government recognizes this and addresses the problem differently.

      An ideological government takes the scientists literally and addresses the wrong problem.  Of course the ideological government also sees there is plenty in it for them and goes ahead with a tax. Some of the members of the intelligent party also see vested interest in a carbon tax and also encourage we go that way.

      Back to the intelligent government; ......they’ll do what they can do. Stop the sale of any more farm land. Protect all the bush/forest left. Reclaim land and plant it out. Buy foreign land and replant. Reduce population here and encourage it overseas. Prepare for peek oil. Retain much of the fossil fuels for our consumption. Get a seat on the UN and try and encourage them to see how blind they are.

      The carbon tax is a smoke screen, a scam, a joke that will achieve nothing while the global population booms at the rate of eighty million extra people a year. These extra people need food, transport, roads, hospitals etc….More plants decimated. More carbon in the air that actually was preventable.

      The best thing this country can do is become educated and use some logic and common sense and recognize a carbon tax is the most ridiculous thing we can do. It could not be worse.

      Be suspicious of anyone that endorses this tax. They either don’t understand the issues, they have a vested interest, or both.

    • Chock Bikkie says:

      10:26am | 02/08/11

      Yes.. except

      The timtam packet is now more than half empty, and the remaining timtams have melted themselves ever more firmly into the packet, the last timtam is in fact unable to be removed because it is completely enmeshed with the packaging… plus there’s no longer 3 kids, now there’s 6 and the youngest 3 are demanding the same amount for them as the older 3 had.. which is impossible since there’s already less than half left and the last bit will stay in the pack.
      Plus the older kids are still slurping them down as quickly as they ever did.

      What do you do? Spend money developing better cauliflowers and timtam residue disposal? Or put a price on timtams and an equivalent credit on other food and let them figure it out for themselves?

      Be wary of anyone who endorses direct action… they may understand the issues but have wilfully refused to accept them because the reality doesn’t fit their political ideology.

    • JohnB says:

      11:08am | 02/08/11

      Yeah but Chock Bikkie; the price you’d need to put on timtams to stop the entire consumption would be about ten fold. This tax doesn’t do anything like that. It is therefore easy for me to undoubtedly declare it is not about the environment. Again, it is a scam, a ripoff, a swindle…...I’ll be back shortly with the numbers I’ve misplaced re oil, coal, wind, solar costs. They’re scary!!!!!!

    • graham says:

      11:33am | 02/08/11

      But Abbott clearly said that he endorses a carbon tax.  Are you saying that he is totally wrong. Are you really saying to us, “Be suspicious of anyone who endorses this tax”?, i.e., “Be suspicious of Abbott”? Maybe you are not totally stupid, because you got that part right. Or perhaps you, like he, will backflip opportunistically, and ‘forget’ that pro-carbon tax’ was his announced stance.

    • MickyG says:

      12:03pm | 02/08/11

      @ Chock Bikkie, Im with JohnB. What we have here is Mum raising the kids pocket money to more than the increase in the price of Tim Tams. Why would they stop eating? To stop them eating the Tim Tams you need to make them REALLY expensive to make the cauliflower look like a good deal in comparison. We arent doing that.

    • JohnB says:

      12:17pm | 02/08/11

      @graham

      I wouldn’t for a second suggest my fictitious intelligent party is Liberal. They’re as bad.

      We don’t have an intelligent party.

      If you think I’m stupid, counter my argument, don’t call me stupid, because that I aint or you would have cleverly discredited me with intellect instead of insult.

    • Chock Bikkie says:

      07:37pm | 02/08/11

      JohnB & Mick

      I’m not for a second saying we need to price the timtams so high that people leave them uneaten.
      It is a foregone certainty - we will dig up and burn all the available (“economically” available, that is, we’ll leave the last timtam as I said earlier, it cant be removed) fossil fuel in the earth, end of story.

      My point is at the moment, we ONLY have the option of timtams for certain meals… And a lot of the other things we could be having are disadvantaged solely by economy of scale (hydrogen, for example - google FCX Clarity).
      A price on option 1 and a credit for option 2 will serve to offset the scale disadvantage and bring them closer together offering realistic choices. And then the natural price increase of timtams themselves - I say by 2025, possibly even sooner - will far outstrip the trading price on timtam residue anyway.

    • Against the Man says:

      06:54am | 02/08/11

      The carbon tax is not going away and people have already made up their minds. So now it is just a countdown to Labor’s extinction smile

    • JohnB says:

      07:31am | 02/08/11

      Wrapped up nicely Against the Man.

      As dumb as it is to watch them implode, I think you’re right.

      I really fear a majority Liberal government so I’d love to see an election now to retain some skeleton Labor party.

    • Andrew says:

      11:34am | 02/08/11

      2 years is long time in politics, I think we can all agree with that.

    • Against the Man says:

      11:56am | 02/08/11

      Tell that to NSW Labor Andrew…..........

    • Andrew says:

      12:19pm | 02/08/11

      So anything is possible then?

    • Tedd says:

      07:00am | 02/08/11

      So much of that is a carbon copy of the US Republicans economic manifesto you’d think there was some direct [inter]action,  but then you threw in Greg Hunt without mentioning His direct action model - pastoral’n'sub-pastoral-school-chaplaincy-soil-counselling-all-in-one-school-care - the ultimate “socialism masquerading as environmentalism”.

      Especially if some arborisation could be wangled into the school yard scenario.  Then we’d be well “set” for a few generations for chaplains with chainsaws: gotta remove those costly overlaps, eh Greg?

    • Kipling says:

      07:10am | 02/08/11

      I think that may well be the only written version of the oppositions policy. How ironic that it was satire, wasn’t it?
      The reality is we are going to need to be taxed more and more, not because of the massive environmental threats and degradation that humans are totally responsible for though but because of successive Australian Governments drive to privatisation. Global Warming or Climate Change (as it is more accurately described) is pretty much mana from heaven for politicians, scary enough to maybe be a good cause to implement some much needed taxes to make up for loss of revenue due to the selling off of public assets. Sure, the year the sale happened the economy surely looked pretty good, but NO ONE had their eye on the long term did they?
      As to the whole Climate Change debate, well if you honestly think that human industry has not at some level been detrimental to the environment or that our materialism is not pumping toxins into the CLOSED atmosphere that we rely on, try sitting in your car overnight in a closed garage with the motor running. That should give you a fairly good hint as to what we are doing globally. Sadly, you won’t be around in the morning to write to us about it though, but that is just Darwinism in action.
      I reckon there will be more new and creative taxes implemented by both laboral and liberal parties in coming years and, neither party will get rid of any revenue raising opportunities (read taxes) despite their handwringing pledges. Let’s face it, neither party has a trustworthy track record for keeping its word.

    • Super D says:

      07:29am | 02/08/11

      Actually Kipling the atmosphere is not a closed system and carbon dioxide is not a toxin.

      The planet constantly interacts with space.  The earth is constantly heated by the energy of the Sun and at the same time expels heat energy into space.

      The whole argument for global warming is that excessive CO2 (only manmade CO2) produces a greenhouse effect that stops the excess heat energy being expelled into space.  The scientific evidence if failing to support this proposition but the political juggernaught rolls on.

    • acotrel says:

      08:14am | 02/08/11

      @SuperD
      ‘carbon dioxide is not a toxin’

      Try holding a plastic bag over your mouth and nose, breathing the same air for a while.

    • Kurisu Sonsaku says:

      08:48am | 02/08/11

      @ acotrel - That would be death by anoxia, not CO2 toxicity. Epic Fail.

    • JohnB says:

      09:20am | 02/08/11

      It’s not a toxin. It will displace oxygen though. Massive difference.

      How can we have an intelligent argument when people don’t understand the fundamental scientific concepts? When politicians don’t know?

      carbon occurs in fossil fuels and plants. When it decays/burns carbon is mostly released as CO2. Excess CO2 traps excess heat in the atmosphere causing excess heat on the surface of the planet.

      The only solution is to increase the plant matter on the earth. How do we do this? Reduce population and replant. Simple stuff. Anything else is a skewed and vested lie.

      We will not stop the use of all the fossil fuel that is left unless you increased the cost of that fuel about ten fold. Aint going to happen. It will all be used. Therefore the proposed carbon tax achieves NOTHING.

      Meanwhile, population explodes while we dithered. Result, things get hotter, too many people, declining food yields. Look out!!!!! I’m glad it’s not in my life time that we’ll feel the effects of the decisions we are allowing these clowns to make.

    • TimB says:

      09:32am | 02/08/11

      Acotrel, I’ll give you the same advice I gave to Reggie:

      Stick your head in a tub full of fresh water and try holding your breath for a while.

      Is water a pollutant by your logic?

      Carbon dioxide doesn’t kill you. Lack of oxygen does. Two very different things.

      @ Super D, I believe Kipling envisages the Earth a little like this:

      http://img1.tvloop.com/img/showpics/dc/2f/l35b6d2420000_1_30320.jpg

    • andye says:

      10:55am | 02/08/11

      @TimB - Put salt on your chips. Tasty! Is salt a poison? NO!

      Eat a large salt shaker full of salt. Brain swells up and you DIE. Is salt a poison? You don’t know, because you are DEAD.

    • killerbee says:

      01:42pm | 02/08/11

      I think it’s very strange that there is a wrong perception that The LNP doesn’t have any written climate change policy. It shows the quality of research by ALP supporters. Look here for the LNP policy on climate change.
      http://bit.ly/9g5Ckt

      Then when you have read it make critical comments like a reasonably intelligent person would, not idiotic spin that you learnt listening to The ALP spin machine.

    • JohnB says:

      02:23pm | 02/08/11

      Who you talking to there killerbee?

    • Al says:

      02:33pm | 02/08/11

      Actually the scientific evidence strongly supports that proposition Super D. The most obvious one - among many others I can reel out - are the satellite measurements which show a decrease in the heat radiation into space caused by carbon keeping it within the atmosphere.
      Hence it is actual current proof of the theory and explains why the atmosphere is measurably warming. You will find the measure of that most convincingly in the average overnight temperatures which have been increasing consistently right around the world.
      Finally, the atmosphere is a relatively closed system, many thanks to gravity, otherwise we would be in deep trouble with the air we breath dissipating into space.
      CO2 not a toxin? As with most things, it depends on the amount - ask a caver.

    • persephone says:

      03:10pm | 02/08/11

      ‘carbon dioxide is not a toxin”

      Read this little story…

      http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,962228,00.html


      Then a silent plume of colorless gas shot up from the turbulent depths of Lake Nios, just inside Cameroon’s northwest border. Within minutes, the heavy fumes of carbon dioxide burst over the rim and sank into the valley below, enveloping sleepy hamlets in a deadly bubble.’

      ‘“Everyone started to cough, and some people vomited blood,” he said. “I saw people on the ground screaming. Everyone was crying.” When the cloud lifted, there were few survivors to mourn the dead.’


      It will never be known how many died in probably the worst natural calamity ever to strike the quiet west African country. The U.N. Disaster Relief coordinator in Geneva put the toll at 1,746, but the number may be far higher.’

      The killer?

      http://mhalb.pagesperso-orange.fr/nyos/nyos.htm

      ‘... a disturbance of unknown origin had upset the density stratification of the water column, triggering an overturn of the lake and the subsequent release of carbon dioxide. Being denser than air, CO2 flows over the ground surface, asphyxiating people unfortunately present in the gas cloud.’

      So that weightless, non toxic gas sank to the ground (because it was heavier than air, a neat trick for something weightless) and caused the deaths of nearly two thousand people.

    • JohnB says:

      03:51pm | 02/08/11

      Good story persephone…It’s still not a toxin. Unless you think we should redefine the term for your and Labor’s purpose.

    • Martin says:

      04:43pm | 02/08/11

      CO2 is used to carbonate your soft drink. Fair dinkum, these Labor types would say anything wouldn’t they?

    • persephone says:

      05:10pm | 02/08/11

      Well, it is a toxin, actually.

      http://www.ehu.es/jchamorro/EneEco2.pdf

      ‘Toxicity of Carbon Dioxide Gas Exposure, CO2 Poisoning Symptoms…’

      Lots of other links, along the same lines.

      Hint: normal suffocation does not lead to the kinds of symptoms described in the story.

      http://www.ehow.com/how-does_4695252_carbon-dioxide-poisoning-kill-human_.html


      ‘Symptoms of Hypercapnia
      Early symptoms of hypercapnia, or carbon dioxide poisoning, include rapid breathing, a shortness of breath, confusion, flushed skin and muscle twitches.

      If severe hypercapnia is reached (levels of carbon dioxide in the blood at 75 mm Hg or higher), a person will exhibit disorientation, convulsions, panic and unconsciousness, leading to death. Death will occur because of a lack of oxygen in the blood, leading to complete organ failure as the oxygen has been overtaken by the carbon dioxide. In some cases, victims who have been exposed to very high levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere have been known to almost immediately die of asphyxiation, as the carbon dioxide serves to displace, or push out, the oxygen in the air.’

    • Glenn says:

      07:50am | 03/08/11

      @acotrel Holding a plastic bag over your head would produce Carbon monoxide, not dioxide. We breath out monoxide. Yep epic FAIL

    • Paul, and I ain't no scientist says:

      11:00am | 03/08/11

      Glenn says:07:50am | 03/08/11, Holding a plastic bag over your head would produce Carbon monoxide, not dioxide. We breath out monoxide. Yep epic FAIL ...yep , epic fail alright…against you.  We breath out carbon dioxide. The carbon dioxide breathed out is a by-product of the process of cell respiration, as is water. In this process, energy is produced in the mitochondria of cells.

      Go back to school and do your homework next time.  Carbon Monoxide as a poision as a result of combustion of any product that contains carbon (petrol, wood, etc). 

      If we produced carbon monoxide withon our bodies…we would be dead before the lung got the chance to expel the gas.

    • Peter#1 says:

      07:19am | 02/08/11

      I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.
      This AGW or Climate Change, or whatever the current trendy term is, is like a new religion.
      It has given atheists something to believe in.
      For those of us with a brain, who can think and reason for ourselves, there is the knowledge that climate on our planet has been changing for eons, long before humans evolved and will continue to change long after the human race is extinct.
      Humans are an insignificant and minor irritation to Mother Nature, whose awesome power can only be controlled in the mind of egotistical scientists and gullible AGW alarmists.
      The rest of us realists will continue to adapt to, and learn to live with, the changing conditions.

    • bleD says:

      08:36am | 02/08/11

      What has atheism to do with AGW? Silly extraneous comment.

    • andye says:

      10:59am | 02/08/11

      Oh dear lord. The climate changes? QUICK TELL THE SCIENTISTS!

      The argument IS that the climate changes. It is a delicate system which finds various equilibriums. Right now it looks like it is changing faster than it ever has before. I still don’t get how people say “The climate always changes” like this is an argument AGAINST climate change. it is another argument FOR it.

      Of course if your “scientific arguments” are challenged, you can always revert to your original point that it is a “new religion” so you can attack it as a belief.

    • Chris L says:

      01:09pm | 02/08/11

      Derision seems to be the weapon of choice for both sides of the political divide. At least the article was vaguely amusing.

    • Matt says:

      08:21am | 02/08/11

      So no one wants a sensible price on carbon that fits in with the economy, will create new jobs, will invest in research and development for new energy, will lower pollution, and instead they want billions of their tax dollars thrown at large companies to stop them polluting? 

      If you think Labor is bad - and they are - god help us all if that dumb opposition leader somehow gets into power.

    • Jim says:

      08:53am | 02/08/11

      If we had a government that had a record of bringing reality at all close to their vision, Matt, then I don’t think 9 out of 10 ordinary Australians (read - non-members of GetUp, trade unions, rising tide or the ALP) would be so against this tax.

      Sadly for you and all the rusted ons, this government has added failure after failure to its less than impressive resume. If you think for one minute that ALL the money raised will go to where they’ve said, and that treasury has their predictions even remotely close, then you should re-pack your bong and sit down to an enlightening episode of Sunrise.

    • I hate pies says:

      09:00am | 02/08/11

      Did you say “sensible” price? $23/t? Our price will raise 5 times more revenue than the EU’s, from a population 24 times smaller - is that sensible?
      Please explain to me how new jobs will be created? Will these be over and above current jobs, or simply replace (some of) them? What will people do in the period between their current workplace going under and their “new” jobs being there?
      If you think Labour are bad, have a read over their track record since returning to power. Carbon tax aside, they’re the most inept and wasteful government we’ve ever had. Also, Tony Abbott is a Rhodes Scholar; he’s hardly “dumb”. I’d much rather chance my arm with a return to a Liberal government than continue the damage inflicted by our current government. At least they’ll show some semblance of prudence.

    • Futurelegend says:

      10:08am | 02/08/11

      @Matt. Exactly. This satirical assessment of the “direct action” is exactly what the clown Abbott is selling to us. Read the Sophie Mirrabella “VHS vs satirical analogy” for another coalition clown policy perspective. Bravo Punch HILARIOUS reading today.

    • Jane says:

      11:10am | 02/08/11

      @I hate pies, Abbot is very clever at knowing how to harness negativity, incite hate but not much else. Direct Action is poor policy and is slammed even by right wing press. However they must reduce emissions 5% by 2020 as per pledge the nation has made and this plan will cost double. Direct Action has been shown to be an easier sell for voters as they prefer regulation to market pricing apparently, but at double the cost it is only to get their vote, not to protect their interest. So if he wins your vote for it then he is shrewd indeed, unethical but I will pay him smart. No worries.

    • PTom says:

      11:46am | 02/08/11

      @“I hate pies says”
      Crap the Australian scheme will raise $35billion in 3 years.
      The European Scheme will raise up to $296 billion in 6 years

      But according to you after the ETS is place Australia will raise $1480 Billion, that is bigger then the whole Australian economy.

    • Matt says:

      12:38pm | 02/08/11

      Jim, I hate Sunrise.. it’s crap

      I hate pies, yes I did say that.

      Future, Sophie doesn’t know what she’s talking about and she’s supposedly a minister?  Scary…

      Jane, yes Abbott is all about negativity, and stupidity.. Not too sure about clever though..

      PTom, ignore him, he watches too many TV ads..

    • VVS says:

      03:14pm | 02/08/11

      @ I hate pies

      Don’t hate pies… they are awesome!! Now, who ate all my pies…?

    • I hate pies says:

      06:04pm | 02/08/11

      VVS, you’re a very wise person. I too am a fan of pies; the meat and gravy type that is..the ones I refer to in my moniker are the black and white ones that kick windbags.
      Ptom, my apologies - I may have been wrong. To be clear, how much did the EU ETS raise in its first 5 years? Also, using your figures the Australian version is still 3 times more expensive per capita, with a head of that money going straight to the UN and to fund the continuation of the publics/businesses current lifestyle. By the way, do we get a cut of the profits made by the “clean energy” businesses, seeing how we’re funding them?
      Jane, you’re a woman so you don’t know what you’re talking about. Use your brain not your emotions….just joking. What is the cost of the Direct Action plan? And to whom? If government expenditure doesn’t increase, then there will be no further burden on you…unlike the carbon tax. They can just take back the $10b by-off of the greens.
      I don’t like either policy, and I haven’t studied them in depth because they’re both absolutely pointless; and I don’t think our world will implode like they say it will. The whole debate is based on fear, not rational thinking, so by extension we’ve ended up with irrational policies. Australians need to understand that we’re a MINNOW on world scales; no-ones watching us, and no-one gives a sh*t about what our man-made climate change policy is.
      Take your heads out of your nicely warmed sand and think about things; the climate change scientists and economists who tell you the science is settled all have a vested interest in the green industry; they are very biased. Did you know you can’t get a government grant for anything related to the environment unless it has the words “Climate Change” in the title? Science has become nothing more than a propaganda machine.

    • Holly says:

      08:32am | 02/08/11

      Some very sensitive souls around this morning.  Apparently it is only OK when someone lampoons Prime Minister Gillard.  I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry over my Weetbix - laugh because you nailed the fatuousness of Tony Abbott’s crusading and his policy so precisely, or cry because he might get the opportunity to put it in place and we will see our public infrastructure suffer once again under a neglectful coalition government.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      08:41am | 02/08/11

      Hmm, I can either opt for Gillard’s carbon tax / ETS which will be another derivative type scam or I can opt for Abbott’s Direct Action which will a rort for farmers and lucky corporations to receive corporate welfare. Somebody is going to be making a lot of money either way, courtesy of the taxpayer….

    • persephone says:

      08:45am | 02/08/11

      Good analysis of Direct Action, but you missed the bit where CO2 is weightless but (despite this) Abbott is going to stop tonnes of it being emitted.

      (And alas, I can already see that someone is going to need the absurdity of that explained to them, but I live in hope….)

    • Super D says:

      09:30am | 02/08/11

      Seems you need the explanation perse.  C)2 is weightless under earths gravity in the same weigh that an Astronaut is weightless in the absence of gravity.  Though perhaps you can feel the weight of CO2 on your skin as you wander the planet?

      I’m no expert on the weight calculations with regard to CO2 abatement but imagine it has something to do with molecular mass. 

      Mass is of course constant where as weight is a measure of the attraction of two objects of mass due to gravity.

    • Jane says:

      09:56am | 02/08/11

      SuperD, Why did all those people die from Carbon Dioxide poisoning from the lake in Africa?

    • iansand says:

      10:37am | 02/08/11

      Super D - Fill a balloon with CO2.  If it is weightless it will float away, buoyed by other gases in the atmosphere.  That won’t happen, will it.

      I’m sorry, but everyone who repeats the “carbon dioxide is weightless” canard demonstrates their lack of capacity to engage in debate.  It is proof of insufficient education to understand the basics.  Unfortunately Mr Abbott falls into that class of people.  And as no one seems to have taken him aside to set him straight, it seems that his advisers and party colleagues are also in this category.  I wonder what Barnaby thinks?

    • high school student says:

      11:58am | 02/08/11

      OK I’ll bite. I cant tell if you are being facetious but you do realise that “tonnes” in this instance is a measure of volume? not mass?

    • iansand says:

      12:13pm | 02/08/11

      high school student - You should go to your school and demand the money back.  You are attending the institution on the basis that they are providing an education.  They have taken fees or your parents’ taxes under false pretences.

    • Jim says:

      12:19pm | 02/08/11

      Hmmm…for a teacher not to know the difference between weight and mass is quite surprising. No wonder our children are low on literacy and basic maths and science, but big on what the world owes them.

    • ZSRenn says:

      01:32pm | 02/08/11

      I will listen to your argument and agree a balloon filled with CO2 does sink.

      If we take this further CO2 must therefore be closer to the ground and sit just above the surface where it is washed away into the soil when it rains.

      Ergo No CO2 pollution suspended in the atmosphere causing Global Warming.

      End of debate.

    • Super D says:

      01:51pm | 02/08/11

      @iansand - so helium is weightless?  Or is it just sufficiently lighter than air that it lifts the balloon as well as itself?  I don’t think I’ve stated that CO2 is lighter than air which you seem to have presumed.

    • iansand says:

      02:21pm | 02/08/11

      Oh dear, Super D.  You should be applying for that refund from your school too.  You said carbon dioxide is weightless (with the addition of the meaningless words “under earth’s gravity”).  You really have no idea, and have insufficient education to join the debate.

      As for ZSRenn, words fail me.

    • ZSRenn says:

      04:47pm | 02/08/11

      @ iansand so when i use humor in the debate words fail you. I cant win with you can I.

    • iansand says:

      06:07pm | 02/08/11

      The problem, ZSRenn, is that your form makes me believe that you meant it.

    • Blind Freddy says:

      08:52am | 02/08/11

      “In a market, cost is set where the supply and demand curves overlap.  Direct Action will remove these costly overlaps.”

      WTF! Please explain?

    • Futurelegend says:

      11:21am | 02/08/11

      “Blind Freddy” Ha ha. That’s a good one. Thigh slapping with laughter now.

    • PTom says:

      11:57am | 02/08/11

      Because Direct Action is “socialism masquerading as environmentalism”.

    • nossy says:

      08:52am | 02/08/11

      There will be no Direct Action Plan Scott - as ususal when the Libs come to power all bets are off as they declare the vault empty and Abbott will do the same - thats why we have hardly heard anything about this ludicrous scheme - a scheme that would cost an arm and a leg and have us cover an area the size of Germany in trees!  Strewth Abbott must be laughing inside when he very occasionally talks about his “Direct action” plan - at least he can say to the voters come next election in 2013 that “I have a Climate Change Plan -wink wink”!  hahahahaha   Good one Tones!Happily as a swinging voter I will get the chance in 2013 to weigh up all the crap from both sides. Labor has a uselessCarbon Tax that wont make one iota of difference except cost jobs and the Libs have no real plan at all - tough choice so far for we voters!

    • nihonin says:

      01:48pm | 02/08/11

      nossy, good to be a free thinker/voter isn’t it, you know what, I’d rather no real plan as apposed to ‘a useless Carbon Tax’ as there is no real pain financially, for a theory that keeps changing week by week with any day in it, that has a ‘d’ in its name.  Until it can be categorically proven by science, that man is contributing more Co2 than nature, into the atmosphere, I believe we should continue to debate the merits of the Tax and its make up.

    • The Badger says:

      01:53pm | 02/08/11

      “But if you look at Tony Abbott’s scheme, for instance, the direct action scheme, where you use biodiversity and trees as the solution to soak up the emissions, it would require something like 28 million hectares of trees to be planted to soak up, I think, the five per cent that the Liberal Party have as a target through direct action, and we only have 26 million hectares of food-producing land, arable land. “
      Tony Windsor 9 June 2011

    • Ben81 says:

      02:13pm | 02/08/11

      Yes Badger, Windsor’s pretty good at putting his foot in his mouth isn’t he.  Doesn’t it tell you something when someone has to lie to get a point across?  Whenever I try to look up where he got the strange idea that Abbott’s plan involves tree planting and nothing else i find all sorts of other stuff is involved too, I wonder why.

    • The Badger says:

      04:24pm | 02/08/11

      ben
      Thanks for pointing out how many trees Abbott is thinking about planting.
      Oh, you didn’t say.
      Guess Windsor’s guess is as good as your guess is.
      Oh wait, you don’t have one.
      Thanks anyway ben, just reinforces what I already thought.

    • Ben81 says:

      05:19pm | 02/08/11

      Strange response.  Do you or do you not accept the plainly obvious fact, whether you agree with the direct action policy or not,  that there’s more to it than trying to achieve an emissions target by merely planting trees?

    • The Badger says:

      05:49pm | 02/08/11

      ben
      I have no idea what you are talking about.

      How many trees is Abbott planning on planting?
      A million?, a billion?
      What did his climate scientists say would be required to meet his targets?
      Do get back to me when you spot the details of hisr direct action tree planting plan.

    • Ben81 says:

      06:23pm | 02/08/11

      Oh man, please tell me you’re just playing games here…

      http://www.liberal.org.au/Issues/Environment.aspx
      Click on ‘The Coalition’s Direct Action Plan Policy’

      “We will also support direct action to plant an additional 20 million trees in available public spaces.”
      “Based on industry estimates, the planting of 20 million trees will require approximately 200 to 400 square kilometres of land area depending on the intensity, and can be delivered at a cost of around
      $5 per tree.55 While this program will include large scale plantings in regional areas it will also include urban street planting and highways.”

      You may notice it’s just a part of the policy among many other things i’m sure you’ll ignore and nobody has come up with the ridiculous claim that tree planting will be anything like the main means to meet an emissions target apart from Tony Windsor and those who parrot his meaningless quote.

      I’m sure this won’t stop you using the same quote again and again though, not caring that you’re discrediting yourself.
      Really, what’s so hard for you to to understand here?  Do you or do you not accept that the Coalition’s plan isn’t to merely plant trees to meet an emissions target? 
      If you still can’t accept it, what planet are you on?

    • iansand says:

      06:38pm | 02/08/11

      Nihonin - CO2 is a by-product of burning carbon.  Carbon is a major constituent of coal and oil.  We have been burning a tonne or two of that stuff over the last 150 years.  Coincidentally, the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere has increased by ~30% over that time.  I think it is you who has to explain where it came from.

      I really have trouble understanding the complete lack of understanding of denialists.  Did they sleep all the way through high school?

    • persephone says:

      09:16pm | 02/08/11

      Ben

      you’re right; Direct Action doesn’t rely on tree planting alone.

      They aim to achieve 60% of their emissions cuts through soil carbon sequestration.

      That’s even sillier than their tree planting scheme.

      To achieve that level of sequestration, they’d need to use at least 75 million hectares of farming land.

      There’s only 50 million hectares of arable land in Australia.

      And that’s using a ‘best estimate’.

      If you use CSIRO’s figures, the low end of the range for carbon sequestration per hectare would require 500 million hectares, or 65% of Australia’s land mass, most of which isn’t capable of being farmed.

      Moreover, the Opposition are planning on this costing about $10 per tonne of carbon sequestered.

      The Dairy Industry has estimated a cost to farmers of $200 per tonne, and that appears to be about right.

      To sequester carbon in the soil, you need to have a balance of nutrients. Most Australian soils are low in phosphorus and sulphur, so these need to be added if carbon is going to be fixed.

      In trials, fixing carbon in the soil using this method has cost $248 per hectare.

      http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/article/2010/04/28/180901_on-farm.html

      It just doesn’t add up.

    • Ben81 says:

      11:15pm | 02/08/11

      persephone yes i’ve read about concerns over large scale carbon sequestration and you’ve put forward one of the most pessimistic views of it, and I haven’t balanced it up myself yet with what people without your agenda are saying to be honest.

      I’ve got to say though, the way these arguments are being put forward is a bit silly.  If you don’t think something will achieve an emissions cut hoped for, just say so without these imaginary situations about land use that are just never going to happen.  It’s distracting and as Badger has shown here, it doesn’t matter even if it’s complete garbage, people will keep saying it just because they think it sounds good.

      Of course the best situation would be that what you’re saying is correct, the policy (at least that part of it) is abandoned, and we don’t waste time and money on a futile and pointless exercise that won’t make the slightest difference to climate change. 
      I really don’t see the Coalition’s plan as anything more than something to appease some of those who want to see us ‘do something’ that may save us from Labor’s far worse alternative.

    • Andrew says:

      12:03am | 03/08/11

      Ben I think we need some more content on how much farming land will be needed to capture carbon in the soil. Do we have a reasonable estimate of cost per ton etc.

    • fairsfair says:

      08:57am | 02/08/11

      This type of “conversation” is infuriating, frustrating and down right sad. It is sad that we, as a nation, can’t discuss this matter as adults. It is sad that material can not be presented in a non-inflationary manner. I know this is just an opinion site yes, but I always thought it represented a pretty good snap shot of Australia. It is just a major bitchfest that is flying in ever decreasing circles, no doubt bound to fly up its own arse at any moment.

      I’m done. Bye all.

    • The Badger says:

      01:56pm | 02/08/11

      Live long and prosper.
      There is goodness in you.

    • Knemon says:

      07:13pm | 02/08/11

      Don’t give up fairsfair, you’re one of the more rational thinkers on The Punch.

    • Daniel says:

      09:00am | 02/08/11

      This is conservatism masked as normal everyday thought on a complex topic. Direct Action will not work and will give money to the polluters.

    • Anna C says:

      09:00am | 02/08/11

      Why are we still debating this topic. As far as I can tell everyone has already made up their minds on this issue and neither side is willing to change them.

    • The Badger says:

      09:16am | 02/08/11

      Excellent analysis of the direct action plan.
      The best part is the conservative punters on the punch seem to think it’s a piss-take, when it couldn’t be closer to the truth.
      “Tony Abbott has promised that all new Government spending will be offset by tax cuts” ROFLMAO

    • Andrew says:

      09:56am | 02/08/11

      Did any of the commenters even notice that this post is Filed Under: ‘Satire’ before ham-fistedly typing out an anti-LNP/anti-ALP/anti-GRN rant?

      Probably not. Too busy grinding their axes, no?

    • Chris L says:

      01:19pm | 02/08/11

      Grinding them down to the handle!

    • Jane says:

      10:08am | 02/08/11

      Direct Action is a joke, Treasury Department say it will cost 10 billion more than he claims. It will reduce productivity. Farmers protest it. CSIRO say the soil part is not proven science. Economist slam it. Will cost twice that of carbon tax. So yes a joke,. Though when mainstream voters find out that plan pays the polluters he will feel really the pain! Direct Action’s only friend is spin doctors who suggest voters are stupid so will vote for the easy to explain policy even if it will cost them twice as much. The national interest would only have been served if there was bipartisan policy and seeing Abbot does not have credible policy to meet the emission reduction target he should have pushed for a more business friendly Carbon tax . Minority governemnt meant it did not have to be the Greens formulating policy with Labor. Heather Ridout seemed to hold this view on QANDA last night. No though, no logic allowed in Canberra! , so we have the two extremes but Greens wins in quality, Direct Action is a joke. No point taking it seriously. Good article.

    • hawker says:

      10:59am | 02/08/11

      Agreed Jane. Noone in the Coalition even believes in it. Half supported a market based solution as negotiated by Rudd/Turnbull, and the other half are sceptics who don’t think anything should be done.

    • Martin says:

      11:34am | 02/08/11

      Agreed Jane, braindead comments are welcomed by all Labor supporters as we try our best to suppress the voice of reason from the right. Far better to commit us to a new regime of taxation to increase cashflow into government coffers to pay for ridiculous NBN, TV set top boxes, Kevin 747, Pink Batts and BER programs that support all our good comrades out there. Plenty of uniionised labour to used on the NBN , so it’s all good. Tell the greenies that we doing our bit for the environment, and keep on shipping shitloads of coal to China (please don’t talk about this in public) Just watch Q&A on the ABC for further education on Labor friendly propaganda to parrott to general populus.

    • Andrew says:

      10:18am | 02/08/11

      Just one question to all those who know better than I.

      These tree’s which we are planting under this policy. I assume they are meant as some type of long term solution. What are the chances and how will it be accounted for if and when some of these tree’s are excavated to make way for new housing or roads etc? These trees will then not exist will the “green army” then need to rush out and replant one in another part of australia?

      This policy to me has a lot of holes in it, and i don’t think it is right for the government to pay businesses to become more efficient in their energy use. They should be doing this anyway.

      I am however all in favour of investing in renewables. But i just don’t think this policy is a good one and is nothing more than a band-aid approach to a problem the liberal party hope people forget about in a couple of years.

    • Flavian Hardcastle says:

      10:35am | 02/08/11

      This attempt at satire would be hilarious if it weren’t 100% accurate.

    • neil says:

      11:18am | 02/08/11

      Another idiotic piece of Labor propoganda.

      The real strength of direct action is that it panders to the idiots that believe we should actually do something about this fictitious problem but once it is implemented it can be manipulated so that it does nothing at all.

      So unlike a carbon tax that will have will damage the economy through wealth redistribution and have no impact on the environment, direct action will achieve the same environmental outcome while having no impact on the economy.

      That why it is the correct response to AGW.

    • Jane says:

      11:57am | 02/08/11

      Neil, So you suggest Abbot does not respect the mandate to act on climate change nor the pledge taken at Copenhangen? that mandates should be ignored,  and pledges ripped up? delaying acting on mandates long enough for them to beccme obsolete democratic?I mean why do we even vote if he knows better than the electorate..really! I am not a big on climate science but we are committed and we have two choices and the Greens/labor is far superior policy to the garbage policy the LIberals have. I may prefer somewhere in between but Liberals did not want to negotiate so I blame them. They have had 4 years to get a good policy together and failed to do so. Now you say it is because they do not honour the pledge or the mandate and are LIARS. Interesting.

    • Andrew says:

      12:09pm | 02/08/11

      Why is anything that has a form of critiscism whether imagined or not is seen as bias or Labor propoganda but anything that supports the coalition seen as a great factual article? I am no saying you have said that but it is just a theme i see here on the punch.

      I still laugh whenever i hear people having a go at the punch for having a pro-labor bias seeing how nothing news limited could ever reasonably be seen to be bias towards the leftish side of politics.

    • MickyG says:

      12:12pm | 02/08/11

      @ Jane…what mandate? At the last election 88% of Australian voted for parties which had “no climate tax” as policy. I’m not sure what mandate you are referring to? Also we are only ‘committed’ to the carbon tax because it was part of Gillard’s deal with the Greens to obtain government. The Liberals wouldn’t compromise on it so the Greens gave power to Labor.

    • Jane says:

      01:44pm | 02/08/11

      MickyG, We have given the government a mandate to act on climate change in 2007. That was a clear mandate.  The policy to achieve the mutually agreed targets is what is under debate now as a pledge was signed in Copenhagen. Some will say Gillard had a clear mandate not to introduce Carbon tax as that policy, but to me so not clear seeing she did not actually win government and shares policy formulation with the Greens or could have been Liberal. Plus Liberals gave Greens first lower house seat with their preferences so bit cheeky to play mandate card on that issue. Also it is not quite the same as Carbon tax policy as it is only temporary to ease into a ETS. Still if some want to insist it was a mandate then Labor could go to an ETS straight off but would not be in the best interest of the nation, just to appease a few not a massive difference in policy outcome.

    • Anubis says:

      03:22pm | 02/08/11

      @ Jane - A mandate given in 2007 is null and void if a subsequent election is fought and won on a policy that is the exact opposite to the previous mandate. In 2010 the only Party that went to the election promoting a price on carbon was the Greens - Gillard, Swan and Wong ruled out a Carbon Tax, in fact Swan sid that anyone who even suggested that Labor would put a Carbon Price in place were being “hysterical” and Gillard’s words “There will be no Carbon Tax under a Government I lead” is still ringing in most voters ears. The Liberals were not promoting a price on carbon either. So the statement that there is no mandate and that 88% of Australian’s voted for parties that were not supporting a Carbon Tax (or price) are factual.

    • Jane says:

      03:45pm | 02/08/11

      Anubis, they said no carbon tax, Nobody has ever to this day promised no climate change policy as that mandate still does stand.. Plus the pledge has been signed so could have some international ramifications if we went back on our “: not negotiable” pledge. Even Abbot respects that. His take is if we wait long enough global attitudes may change then we can take it back to the people to re-assess and he feels that is the strength of Direct Action (only strength and that is questioned), that IF that occurs it is easier to repeal…  but yes we have made an international commitment, no going back really without testing some international relations or becoming a lying flaky nation.

    • Steve says:

      03:52pm | 02/08/11

      Anubis. There you are doing it again. Excessive use of facts and logic. Can’t you give us some moral bleating for a change?

    • Anubis says:

      04:22pm | 02/08/11

      @ Jane - I at no time inferred that we should ‘dodge’ the commitment to a 5% reduction. I am questioning if the Carbon Tax is the right way to go. It will have no effect on our emissions (Treasury modelling indicates an increase in emissions under the tax) and even Garnaut and Flannery have stated that this measure will do nothing for the environment (although Flannery did temper it a bit by saying “not in a thousand years).

      So if the Carbon Tax will do nothing to reduce emissions then just how is Julia planning to reduce emissions in order to meet the international commitment?

    • Jane says:

      04:26pm | 02/08/11

      @Steve, What facts are they? You also been misled by the campaign? Liberals and Labor have bipartisan support for action on climate change and it easy to verify. the last election was based only on policy how to achieve common goals.

    • Anubis says:

      04:52pm | 02/08/11

      @ Jane - are you for real?

      Swan (2010) - “Any one who says that the Labor Party will implement a Carbon Tax in the next term are being ‘hysterical’

      Gillard (2010) - “There will be no Carbon Tax under a Government I lead”

      The plan was to establish a people’s forum to nut out the details and present a policy and action at the 2013 election. The only reason there is “bipartisan support” as you call it is because of the commitment labor made at the Copenhagen Climate Convention. There is an obligation to meet 5% reduction - this does not necessarily equate to bipartisan support. As stated previously, the Carbon Tax will do nothing to reduce Australia’s overall emissions (confirmed by Treasury, Garnaut, Flannery) So, what is Gillard’s plan to reduce emissions? It is not the Carbon Tax as the only commitment this meets is Julia’s Fabian Society commitment to Wealth redistribution.

    • Jane says:

      05:15pm | 02/08/11

      Anubis, You say null and void mandate one minute and the next (after google?) change your take?  The OP on this particular thread asks why we should do somehting about this “fictitious problem”. Trouble is even if you do think that way we are locked in. So may as well go for the best policy. Hard to understand?

    • Brizben says:

      11:29am | 02/08/11

      Why do the COALition have a climate change policy when they do not believe climate change is real?

    • Jane says:

      11:48am | 02/08/11

      2007 election delivered a mandate to government to act on climate change. As a consequence Australia pledged to reduce emission by 5% by 2020. This is not negotiable.

    • PTom says:

      12:09pm | 02/08/11

      Abbott is a socialist and the Direct Action Plan is his ” socialism masquerading as environmentalism”. 

      How else do describe a plan that pay business to reduce their impact.

    • MickyG says:

      12:15pm | 02/08/11

      @Jane,  ummm have you read Liberal Party Policy? Its on their website.  Reduction by 5% by 2020 IS their policy.

    • Martin says:

      01:48pm | 02/08/11

      Agreed Jane, 2007 Election delivered mandate to act on climate change. Forget about Copenhagen, KRudd with butchers knife in back and Gillard blurting “No Carbon Tax under the Government I lead” Then do a deal with Bob Clown and Christine Wierdo and form minority government. Get backed into corner by a party with 1 MP in the House of Reps and “bingo” we have a mandate and it’s “not negotiable” Yep agreed Jane , and might I say excellent logic behind that argument. LMAO

    • Jane says:

      03:11pm | 02/08/11

      Martin, Rudd delayed the policy so we have been dudded by both political parties plus he played some nasty politics if I recall with Turnbull.?? Copenhagen pledge is being honoured by both parties.  they have an obligation to reach a consensus on our behalf.  Labor was poOrly behaved in the past but this time they are doing the right thing. Liberals could have joined in the policy formulation in place of the Greens and negotiated on behalf of higher income earners and industry. It is almost universal that a price on carbon is preferred. Why throw the entire policy out just so the poll get a list for Tony?  Then we end up with Direct Action which is a joke. Country deserves better..

    • Richard says:

      11:57am | 02/08/11

      Thanks again punch eds for publishing another piece on this paramount issue in political discourse. I notice you’ve pursued yet again the editorial policy of publishing mainly articles supporting the carbon price policy and criticising the Coalition’s policy, but at least we are given an opportunity here in the comments section to set the record straight and expose these authors like Scott Abbott for the brain-dead bone-head numb-skulls that they really are.

      To be fair, this was a very funny article, and it did extract from even me an unwilling chortle when I read it, despite my best intentions to stay indignant. But it perpetuates a number of untruths that have somehow seeped into common perception about the Coalition policy on climate change, and needs to be challenged.

      The prime misconception is that somehow the competing policies are presenting two entirely distinctive positions. Its as if the choice is between either wasteful direct action or economically destructive carbon taxation. Well that’s not true at all, the choice is between either wasteful direct action alone (Coalition policy) or wasteful direct action AND economically destructive carbon taxation (Greens/Labor policy).

      The excellent productivity commission report explicitly stated that a carbon price only made sense if all other direct action policies were abandoned (of which there are already a myriad in place). But the Greens made it very clear that their support for a (*cough*) “low” carbon price south of $40/tonne was entirely conditional on a vast expansion of these sort of direct action policies of exactly the same nature as the ones which are so condemned by smarmy leftist apologists when criticising Coalition policy.

      So we can already see that the Coalition’s policy is the lesser of two evils, as both theirs and the Government’s involves wasteful spending on direct action, yet only the Government’s proposes to hobble the competitiveness of home-grown Aussie industries a big fat tax on productivity that not a single country that competes head-to-head with us are introducing. Not Brazil not Indonesia not Canada not America not South Africa not Chile not Mongolia not Ghana not ANYONE who competes with Australian industry directly will be handicapped in same destructive manner in which Australian industry will be. Surely it isn’t in our National Interest to ruin the international competitiveness of our vital industries, is it? The Government plans to do so, but under the Coalition plan this insanity will be stopped.

      There is another reason why the best and smartest economists in the world like Bjorn Lomborg and Vaclav Klaus very poignantly oppose the Government’s Carbon Tax Lunacy: because its so damn opaque. So once again we can see that the Coalition’s direct action policy is superior, because at least the Taxpayers can tangibly see what they’re getting for their money. They can evaluate the outcome of what they’re paying for directly and judge for themselves if it really is worth it or if its just a big waste of money after all.

      But they can’t do that if the Government’s Monolithic Madness is established. It is then just impossible to see what sort of value for money the taxpayer’s are getting for their dollars. After all, when we’re talking about an artificial market that only exists because of the sneaky whim of a deceitful bunch of legislators, in which transactions involve the non-delivery of the non-production of a ubiquitous gas, we can easily see how, ultimately, we’ll be paying good money for nothing at all.

      And what’s worse, that money won’t even be staying in our economy, it will be sent overseas, never to be seen again. And emissions won’t even decline one skerrick! Emissions will continue to rise, both here and overseas, so why are we the only ones who’ll be paying through the nose?

      Now if I am wrong in anything that I say, anything at all, then I call upon the Carbon Tax advocates like Kika and persephone and all the others to PLEASE respond to my comment and engage in debate with me. But if you don’t, then the Government’s Carbon Tax policy stands comprehensively discredited, even in relation to the Coalition’s Direct Action policy, and must be immediately abandoned and consigned to the dustbin of history. Over to you guys~

    • persephone says:

      03:42pm | 02/08/11

      Er, what?

      Because I chose not to debate with someone, that discredits a government policy?

      At the most, it means that one person who comments on pieces in “The Punch’ didn’t comment on one piece in ‘the Punch’. It has no bearing on the validity or otherwise of a policy.

      I did try, Richard, honest I did. But it’s such a ramble, I couldn’t actually work out what the arguments I’m meant to be refuting are.

      But I’ll tackle a couple of points:

      1. We agree that Direct Action is a waste of time, as do most economists.

      2. Most economists, however, support the government’s scheme as the best way of tackling climate change.

      3. We will be able to see what we’re getting. John Howard put through legislation which means that companies must report annually on their CO2 emissions. Thus we have an annual benchmark which allows us to see whether or not a carbon price is working or not.

      4. ‘The money will be sent overseas…’  Well, not necessarily. What you’re talking about is companies making the (private) decision to meet their targets by purchasing overseas offsets.

      As many of these companies are multi nationals, it can be argued that the money they spend to do this was never going to come to Australia in the first place.

      Of course, if you’re worried about money leaving Australia and going overseas, I take it you support the government’s mining tax.

      Sorry, that’s the best I can do.

      However, using your logic, by replying I have conclusively proved that the government’s carbon policy has credit and must be immediately accepted and lauded for its forward thinking approach.

      Can’t have it both ways, can we, Richard?

    • Richard says:

      11:07am | 03/08/11

      Thanks for your response persephone, and I do agree that Direct Action will probably turn out to be a waste of time. However I, like most decent economists, have always advocated for a Carbon CONSUMPTION Tax to lower Australia’s per capita emissions. Even the Garnaut report specifically noted that this is the superior option for our economy. But if the Government refuses to implement a Consumption Tax on Carbon, then the next best (or should I say next least worst) option would be Direct Action, because truly the last thing in our economy right now, staring down the barrel as we are at imminent crippling stagflation, is a Big Fat Tax On Productive Industry.

      Look I don’t support the Mining Tax either, although I could be persuaded to, but only if all the revenue raised was quarantined into a Sovereign Wealth Fund and left untouched until such time as the Mining Boom ended and our terms of trade correct. However, even if these Big Mining companies are multi-nationals, they are still an investment vehicle for multitudes of Australians, and many millions of Australians are stake-holders in them, so I don’t support any plan to punish them fiscally for their overt success. Instead of taxing excess success, I think it should be encouraged, but that’s just my own personal philosophical bent I guess.

    • Futurelegend says:

      11:58am | 02/08/11

      @Neil Bloody priceless Mate! Keep talking. KEEP TALKING!

    • Mick S says:

      11:58am | 02/08/11

      Fortunately, it is very unlikely that we will have to put up with Abbott’s scam scheme.
      The current carbon tax legislation will pass through parliament.
      The voters will then have over twelve months to realise that Abbott’s scare campaign is just that.
      After that even if (heaven forbid) Abbott does get elected as PM, he will be unable to change the legislation as he will never get any amendments past the Senate (Green senators elected for a six year term remember).
      A double dissolution would be his only method, and at this stage looks extremely unlikely.

    • Futurelegend says:

      12:32pm | 02/08/11

      The Abbott clown is at the peak of his high wire act. Two years is a long performance to maintain at the top of this Political Circus. Long way to fall if the Gillard troupe or Turnbull the Terrific were able to shake the wire for Abbott’s ultimate Finale!
      On the edge of my seat.

    • Martin says:

      02:23pm | 02/08/11

      Future Legend,  You Labor clowns have underestimated Abbott from the start. He cleaned out Rudd and has Gillard on her knees. He’s been the leader of the opposition for nearly 2 years and it’s all been downhill for the useless Labor government since he took over. “Abbott’s ultimate finale” will be Labor decimated and Labor supporters like yourself will be standing there still playing pocket billiards, wondering where it all wet wrong.

    • Thomas Anderson says:

      12:44pm | 02/08/11

      “Will Direct Action reduce bureaucracy?

      Yes. Direct Action will require far less bureaucracy than the carbon tax.  Under Direct Action, the Government will simply allocate taxpayers’ money to innovations that it thinks are most efficient, removing the need for millions of middle-men known as “the market”.”

      I do see the point you’re ridiculing there, and it made me think. If we get rid of all these bureaucrats, collectively known as “the market”, will that not leave more money to trickle down and actually reach it’s purpose instead of funding the salaries of the said bureaucrats?

    • to the Fluffy Brains says:

      12:51pm | 02/08/11

      Abbotts job is to bring this ineffective, inefficient, incompetent government down and I don’t care how he does it. They are WOFTAM’s

    • Mikko says:

      01:07pm | 02/08/11

      Economist don’t support the direct action plan as against a carbon tax which none of our major manufacturing or mining competitors have. Good one, I guess those same brilliant economists also gave loud and clear warnings about the global financial crisis and the depression Australia only avoided by virtue of its mining industry and the big surplus Labor inherited and which they have since turned into a huge deficit.

    • Steve says:

      01:08pm | 02/08/11

      At first I thought this article was a disgraceful examination of the Direct Action Policy (must admit I only skimmed through the first few paragraphs).

      Having read your previous articles though, I decided to give it a re-read, and then the sarcasm is evident. Don’t blame me I’m a bit sleepy and apologies Scott. You’re nothing like your name-sake.

      This is perhaps how the argument against Direct Action should be played out. Treat it as the joke Policy that it is. I can’t believe Hunt is supporting this crap.

      How anyone who doesn’t believe in climate change is happy spending billions of dollars “improving the environment” (planting trees next to a brown coal generator doesn’t stop the pollution from the generator) is completely beyond me. ,

    • Auds says:

      01:31pm | 02/08/11

      This week I read the best quote! written by ryanair boss to a newspaper last year on global warming ,it’s absolutely bizarre that the people who can’t tell us what the f…. weather is next Tuesday can predict with absolute precision what the f…. global temperature will be in 100 year’s.Brilliant PLEASE PRINT.

    • DaS Energy says:

      01:45pm | 02/08/11

      “Will Direct Action create jobs, Yes ”  Totaly incorrect Abbotts 15,000 Green Army is work for the dole. Theres no new jobs in that.

    • Your name:glenm says:

      02:55pm | 02/08/11

      Will the carbon tax destroy jobs?  Yes as the price of electricity/ transport etc rises and every product becomes more expensive companies will need to lay of staff to become more efficient.

    • Your name:glenm says:

      02:55pm | 02/08/11

      Will the carbon tax destroy jobs?  Yes as the price of electricity/ transport etc rises and every product becomes more expensive companies will need to lay of staff to become more efficient.

    • MickyG says:

      02:08pm | 02/08/11

      Lots of good arguments here. Lets start a new one. Check this link :-
      http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/12/us-india-carbon-coal-idUSTRE76B1XI20110712
      Indian and Chinese COAL BURNING power plants are now generating carbon credits. So, Australian company mines coal and sells it to Indian company. Australian company pays carbon tax to Australian Government. Australian Government pays Indian company in exchange for carbon credits. Indian company burns Australian Coal causing carbon emissions. Does anyone think this is a bit funny?

    • Anubis says:

      03:36pm | 02/08/11

      How can a coal burning activity “generate” carbon credits when they are creating emissions? (Over ten years 673 million metric tons) Particularly puzzling when you consider the entire Australian annual emissions are 600 million metric tons

      So five Indian power plants create MORE Co2 emissions than all of Australia and they generate Carbon Credits whereas we get penalized with a Carbon Tax.

      Can someone please explain the logic in this.

    • Paul says:

      02:33pm | 02/08/11

      Why is Truth in Politics all of a sudden so important to the right wingers?? Howard Lied, No GST Ever, Howard then took the GST to the 1998 election where he lost the Australian majority vote 50.98% to Labour v 49.02% to the Liberal party but won more Federal seats. 

      The Australian People didn’t want the GST!!!!!! John Howard and his Goverment Lied over the Tampa and children over board , John Howard and his Goverment Lied over the AWB wheat scandal, John Howard also lied over Worchoices, So where was the outcry for truth in politics from the Right wingers?????  Yet the Right Wingers are so enraged from a Gillard Lie.

      Right Wingers are claiming that Where’s the election for the Carbon Tax, as they never voted for a Carbon Tax!  Well guess what I never voted for Workchoices either, So where was the election for Workchoices????  There was NO ELECTION FOR WORKCHOICES.  I had to wait 2 years to kick Howard to the Curb, and there was nothing more sweeter then watching him go through the Shredder on the ch9 telecast. So in 2 years time the right wingers will most likely get their chance of revenge in the Ballot Box, so there is a posative and something to look forward too!!!!!

    • John Smythe says:

      02:44pm | 02/08/11

      That has already been addressed in many an article on this topic with comments such as that. Feel free to read back on them.

    • Plaants Love CO2 says:

      02:38pm | 02/08/11

      LOL. Funny.
      It just shows neither side has a clue about how to reduce carbon emissions.
      It’s quite simple really - why bother unless China, USA, and India do it first? When they lead the way by putting forward how they will reduce their emissions, why should Aussies pay for it?
      What a fucked up place the Australian political landscape is. Maybe their should be a “Political Emission” Tax - any politician who insists on treating voters like idiots gets shot. Between the eyes. Then shot again.

    • John the Zombie says:

      02:41pm | 02/08/11

      Didnt a whole lot of economist say that there would be no interest rate rise this month.  Also still waiting for the proeprty bubble to burst.

    • Marc says:

      03:35pm | 02/08/11

      Abbott’s ‘Direct action plan’ is a far more socialist policy than a market based carbon tax.

    • Ray says:

      05:29pm | 02/08/11

      Both Labor and the Libs have been conned into believing that climate science is settled, when it is anything but settled. There is no compelling scientific evidence that anthropogenic CO2 emissions are the driver of dangerous global warming. Consequently, there is no scientific nor economic justification for maintaining the 5% reduction target. It was one of the Howard Govt’s worst decisions.  It would be in the national interest for both major parties to rescind the 5% reduction target.

      Advantages (if you can call them that) of the Libs’ policy are that, unlike the irrational carbon tax, its implementation would not cause massive damaging restructuring of the Australian economy, and that it can be simply abandoned at little cost.

    • Patricia says:

      08:13pm | 02/08/11

      Less bureaucrats is reason enough

    • Muzz says:

      10:51pm | 02/08/11

      The big plus for Tony’s direct action plan is that it is scalable and will be paid from consolidated revenue. I’m assuming it’ll start at a $0 spend. Even at that ‘magnificent’ price it’ll probably reduce CO2 emissions more than Julia’s carbon tax.

    • Geoff says:

      10:12am | 03/08/11

      Comedy?  What comedy?  It’s just jumped up stupidity, it doesn’t even qualify as political bias, even though as with most comedy/political satire in this country it attacks the Conservatives.  In this case those on the Right.

      Face it…  Labor’s plan attacks our way of life and increases our cost of living as a Tax it is supposed to make us use less…  but..  please explain just how I can use less.  The dumb hints from the government (except sleeping with a pet to stay warm) most of us on the modal income, probably already do.  Creating a monster bureucracy is also a farce.  Creating a Carbon market. Now that is comedy.

      A giant churn never solved anything.
      Direct action seeks to repair damage to the environment, seeks to “green” the environment, seeks to create new technologies and to do so without a further tax burden on us or destroying the economy, manufacturing, industry, mining, etc, etc, etc….

    • Kipling says:

      07:10am | 04/08/11

      Well from the responses to my post one can easily see why the Climate Change debate is so fraught. Clearly many of us like to think we know science without actually doing any of the hard yards or, more importantly, knowing science.
      We have seen here presented the delusion that our environment is not a closed system… It is either open, closed or isolated - they are the only options and, here is a hint, the transfer of heat and energy are NOT factors used to decide this.
      A claim that Carbon Dioxide is not toxic. That is a very curious one indeed. Carbon Dioxide will not sustain human life, in fact, it is poisonous to us, here is a hint, look up the definition of toxic please.
      Of course let us not leave out the absolute pearler we exhale Carbon Monoxide. There are more than a few here who clearly need to either buy a medical encyclopaedia or make google your friend. No need to retract your statement though, unless a sudden burst of integrity overwhelms you.
      Carbon Monoxide is that other TOXIC Carbon based gas that cars emit… A lot.
      If nothing else though, we have collectively demonstrated why Climate Change theory should have been left totally to the scientists until they have moved fully beyond theory, BUT, as I pointed out, other vested interests were paying for the scientific research and their true agenda would not wait for specific conclusions.
      Make no mistake; there will be more taxes, as stated, due to ongoing privatisation. Also, we are doing ongoing damage to the environment that we rely on. Don’t worry, I am not arrogant or ignorant enough to hug trees and suggest saving the planet, however, we need to smarten up to simply have a go at saving ourselves. The planet will do fine without us.

    • Disraeli says:

      07:43am | 05/08/11

      I quite liked Abbott’s “CO2 is weightless” bit. Quite an amusing slip.

      And the Punch poster who claimed that CO2 measured in tonnes, was in fact a volume measure. That was pretty good.

      More worryingly, the broader, continuing misinformation campaign looks to have casued some distortion about the terms CO2 and Carbon - in the AGW context.

      Carbon, CO2: Simply shorthand for *all* the man-made global warming emissions: carbon dioxide (CO2), Methane (CH4), Nitrous Oxide (N2O) and some of the halocarbon gasses (freon like products).

      In global warming terms, they exist in different concentrations, and weight for weight, their power to contribute to warming varies quite widely. Reconciling these factors gives us AGW emissions measured in CO2-equivalent metric tonnes.

      So AGW is about the whole group of man-made emissions, measured in CO2-equivalent tonnes.

      And the carbon price scheme is about all those AGW gasses, emitted by major businesses, estimated in CO2-equivalent tonnes.

      Any “carry on” about CO2 (in beer, eg, or as “plant food”) or soot, or etc etc is just nonsense. Misleading nonsense.

      Very likley intentional, given how often the Carbon/CO2, CO2-equivalent thing gets explained.

    • Daniel says:

      12:22pm | 13/04/12

      This article is a parody, right?  Am I to believe that Direct Action is more efficient than a carbon tax - does the author knows this goes against almost every pillar of modern economic theory?  On every level both practical and theoretical this makes no sense at all.  I also love how group-think is to blame for why economists don’t support the idea.  Does group-think also cause scientists to be wrong on gravity, chemistry, physics, pharmacy, medicine and engineering, because they must be since they are so close to agreement on suspension bridges.

 

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From: They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

Michael S says:

"A teacher at Geelong Grammar had criticised her for using words that were too long, which had left her confused and had made her doubt her ability to write essays. She became ''quite distressed'' when her English marks began to fall." I can sympathise. My scholastic mentors conveyed to me a causal relationship… [read more]

From: Welfare for breeders is a bonus for everyone

Change Up! says:

I have no problem paying my taxes. As a single, childless person on a very decent income, I can afford it and not have my life severely altered. Plus I understand that my taxes paying for things like schools, childcare and infrastructure is ultimately a good thing. A better community is better for me… [read more]

Gentle jabs to the ribs

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

A private school girl’s family is sueing her elite, extremely expensive private school for not… Read more

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