The Australian Greens may well be a sanctimonious blight on the national political landscape but I don’t see why they should be teased for eating lentils or tofu.

Oh, the evils of delicious, delicious fat. Art: Ray Hirst. Pic: The Advertiser

There is nothing wrong with lentils at all. They’re terrific. Dhal rocks, as does lentil salad with mint, peas, red onion and feta, and stewed lentils make the perfect base for a grilled sausage.

Anyone who doesn’t like tofu should try the kick-arse Chinese dish mapo tofu, which is fresh tofu served with spring onions, minced pork and heaps of chilli. If that still doesn’t work they should get along to a little place called Barbecue City in Adelaide’s Chinatown and order the tofu with broad beans and pickled cabbage. While there is nothing smart or clever about vegetarianism there is also nothing wrong with eating vegetables, and this vegetable dish is one of the best going around.

In a spirit of fairness, if we are prepared to leave the Greens alone on the basis of their culinary choices, they should also be prepared to let the remaining normal 90 per cent of us eat whatever we like.

This of course is not the way of the Greens. At the two-day waste of time and money also known as the Tax Summit in Canberra this week, it was the Greens who were advocating not one but two punitive new taxes which reflect their heartfelt conviction that everybody else in the country should live as they do.

Greens Leader Bob Brown used the tax summit to reassert his long-held conviction that Australian cities need taxes on car ownership or congestion to survive. This is all well and good if you are one of those people who doesn’t have kids and lives in the inner city and gets around on an old bike with a cute wicker basket on the handle bars filled with lentils and tofu.

It’s not that good an option if you have two kids and you have to drop one of them at childcare and the other one at school and then pick them up later and take one of them to footy practice and then go to Coles and get home and make tea and do it all again the next day.

The second tax which Senator Brown fired up about is the so-called fat tax. It’s received a bit of a boost this week with researchers from Yale University saying it’s the only effective way to combat obesity, especially in the corpulent United States. The Danes also introduced a fat tax this week. The tax is applied at the rate of 16 Danish kroner per kilogram of saturated fat in a food, the equivalent of about $2.50 a kilo in Australian terms.

In terms of its effect in the shopping aisles it means the price of a 250g cake of butter has gone up by 50 cents, and a 300ml tub of cream has risen by about the same. The tax takes effect when the saturated fat content of any product is above 2.3 per cent.

Clean-living purists would argue that the Danish tax is a tax on eating badly. I would argue that it is instead a tax on eating well. The problem with our increasingly fat society is not just a question of junk food consumption, which is one of the main targets of the Danish law. The problem is that so many people simply don’t know how to cook any more, or have convinced themselves that they don’t have time to cook.

One of the most telling harbingers of a society that has lost its way is the ready availability of pre-peeled carrots in the vegetable aisles of our major supermarkets, peeling a carrot apparently being such an onerous or time-consuming task that thousands of people simply cannot do it any more.

The arbitrary targeting of fats such as cream and butter reflects a total lack of appreciation of basic food preparation. I cook all the time and I reckon a cake of butter lasts about six weeks in the fridge, and I cook with butter a lot. You don’t actually need to use very much of it at all to make food taste good, to lift a sauce, to add more flavour when you are searing meat for a casserole.

Humans need fat to survive, especially growing kids, and its subtle use in the kitchen is to be encouraged rather than deplored. As with so many things which are apparently wholly bad for you the health purists don’t take into account the links between the consumption of an ostensibly sinful foodstuff and our basic need for happiness.

Dishes such as a béchamel-rich lasagne are called comfort food for a reason. A well-made take-away hamburger and a couple of potato fritters on a Sunday night can often taste like the best thing you have ever eaten. Nigella Lawson might be a couple of kilos overweight on that ludicrous body-mass index, designed as it was not with people but the praying mantis in mind, but she looks pretty healthy to me.

The law introduced in Denmark and the types of taxes envisaged by people such as the Greens are well-meaning, but they are also paternalistic nonsense. The key to making people healthier is to educate them on how to cook well from the earliest possible age, and how to eat sensibly over the course of any given week – which in my view should totally include the right to jam a Chiko roll in from time to time, rather than as a daily event.

It’s an impertinence for anyone in the health lobby or in any political party to project their own lifestyle choices onto others. It shows a desperate lack of imagination that the only way they can envisage changing poor culinary behaviour is through the blunt instrument of taxation.

We should at least give them marks for consistency in that regard.

181 comments

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    • Hank says:

      05:09am | 07/10/11

      I think its only fair fat people should have to contribute more as far as taxes and fees on certain services but I think this is going too far as everybody (including slim, healthy people) will be punished.  Obese and morbidly obese people are a bigger drain on just about everything.  They consume more food which consumes more energy to create; they breathe more oxygen as they are so fat and need more to sustain themselves; they wear considerably larger clothes which requires a lot more material to produce etc etc. 
      Why not start with having a fat tax on airline tickets?  Its a start and things can roll on from there.  Im sure the fatties will soon be motivated into action if you sting their wallets.

    • Tina says:

      06:08am | 07/10/11

      The airline thing (or bus or train) is coming up regularly. It certainly is annoying that a 45 kg petite lady is allowed only the same luggage as a 120 kg bloke.

      But where is Erick? If you pay purely based on weight for flights, doesnt that put men at a disadvantage? That is unfair. And European are generally a bit larger than Asians, arent they? And just try and picture women in tears refusing to jump on the scales at the airport infront of everyone. Not everyone is comfortable with their weight.

      I am pro weight charge on flights but I think it would be difficult to implement. But if some people dont fit into their allocated seat then you have to draw the line.

    • Nathan says:

      06:14am | 07/10/11

      i am not fat i go to the gym regularly so don’t think it is because of that, but you are sounding like an idiot. Why be so derogatory towards people calling them fatties?

    • Bazza says:

      07:42am | 07/10/11

      Hang on here, I thought we were not allowed to pick on lesser groups of people. Hasn’t some journo just been found guilty by a court for being nasty about a group of people sponging off a overly funded system. Hank, you better be careful. Based on your arguments homosexuals should have a tax put on them as well because they are more likely to get sick and put a huge cost on the health system and how stupid is that.

    • Tubesteak says:

      08:09am | 07/10/11

      I would prefer a tax that punishes those who lack self-control and would be happy to cop the hit on the rare occasion that my meal isn’t lean meat and vegetables (no creamy sauces either but salsas instead).

      It’s a rare occasion for me to eat like that so if something that I don’t buy ever (such as butter) is 50 cents more then I don’t care. I am happy knowing that those who are clogging their arteries with it are paying for it.

      I am sick of the NIMBY attitude or “what about me” response. You can’t design a tax system that is cheap and efficient that targets only certain groups. You apply the same rules to all and it is your choice to avoid it by eating healthy food. The rare occasion you don’t will barely be noticed.

      Also, on what planet is Nigella Lawson healthy. Just because you aren’t dying of cancer or Type 2 diabetes right now doesn’t mean you are healthy. Healthy is being able to run 2.4km in under 10 minutes. I would bet London to a brick that NL couldn’t do that in a pink fit.

    • AAAdam says:

      08:37am | 07/10/11

      I agree. This fat tax goes too far. Once the central planners start trying to charge everyone based on the costs they think they are incurrig for medicare (smoking, obesity, etc) then they might as well just adopt a user pays systems. It is far more efficient and accurate at making individuals responsible for their own health costs.

    • Wazza says:

      09:04am | 07/10/11

      While we’re on the simple solution band wagon no dole for smack heads then.

    • RyaN says:

      09:07am | 07/10/11

      @Hank: I agree and a tax on tall people too, and athletes because they all consume a lot more food and material etc. than me.

    • Tubesteak says:

      09:16am | 07/10/11

      Bazza
      Fat people aren’t “lesser groups of people”.

      Not by a long shot and not by any stretch of the imagination.

    • Steve says:

      09:44am | 07/10/11

      I posted this on another tax article

      I agree with a fat tax, but not one based on the food - the tax should be on fat people themselves.  Huge incentive for people to keep the weight off.

      If being fat was the ‘new carbon’ (I might trademark that phrase), don’t muck around with taxing the fat content of food, go for the real behaviour that the fat food tax is trying to offset - becoming or remain obese.

      Lets say 0.25% higher income tax per kg above ideal weight, with a tax concession for the athleticly built or solidly bone-structured given out by government-appointed medical panels - GPs would be too easy to give them out.

      We could even have a sliding scale for age, something similar already in place with the Medicare levy.

      ATO weigh-ins twice yearly to mitigate tax avoidance and help with tax planning.

      As most of us are obese, it would be a broad-based tax and hugely profitable.

      A tax on fat food to fight obesity is like taxing high octane petrol in order to cut down hoon driving and speeding.  Mind you, the preventative health industry has never seen a tax hike it wouldn’t support vigorously.

    • Tina says:

      10:21am | 07/10/11

      @ Steve

      *like*

    • Adam Diver says:

      10:27am | 07/10/11

      @ Steve, to help your idea, a much more simple version would be based on body fat measurments. Ideal weight is far more difficult to generalise.

    • Tubesteak says:

      11:10am | 07/10/11

      Steve
      The problem with your assertion is the cost of compliance.

      You’d have to set things up, then administer them, then everyone would need a doctor’s certificate (22 million visits to the doctor every year is a waste of doctor’s time) and ensure continual compliance.

      In a self-assessment system you just want to lay down a blanket rate and require as little compliance costs as possible. A tax on fatty food achieves this.

    • TomZ says:

      11:43am | 07/10/11

      Nathan, I think you have been had.

    • egg says:

      12:55pm | 07/10/11

      @bazza, a stupid journo who lied about people sponging, i think you’ll find. the reason he was found guilty is because he had to make up his evidence. he’s hardly someone to hold up as an example.

      then again, judging by the rest of your comment, i guess you’re the type who would find andrew bolt refreshing… agreeing with his lies, referring to overweight people as “lesser”, stating (incorrectly) that homosexuals are more likely to get sick, etc.

    • Angry Fat Bitch says:

      10:21pm | 08/10/11

      Ah yes - the classic argument. Make fat people pay a tax, and that will surely make them lose weight. Because upping the taxes on cigarettes has helped so many people quit smoking.

      In case you missed the sarcasm, I’ll remind you that most smokers take the hit every time the price goes up because they’re addicted. They feel helpless. Same with food, and being overweight. When you’re addicted to fat and sugar, and have tried over and over to lose weight and failed, you feel helpless. So you’ll find most people will pay the extra 50c on a block of butter, and it’ll do bugger all to help anyone.

      Yup I’m fat, have lost a heap but have a heap more to lose, and I am paying through the nose. Gym membership, PT sessions, nutritionist, not to mention the cost of fresh fruit and veg these days, healthy living doesn’t come cheap. And since so many overweight people are on lower incomes, forcing them to pay even more in taxes won’t help them, it’ll just make it harder for them to help themselves.

      Slapping a tax on fat people isn’t the answer, and people who say it is are near-sighted and selfish. That’s right, selfish. Because you don’t want to help anyone, your only real concern is with how “your” tax money is spent, and you choose the band-aid solution that you know won’t fix anything. I may not know the answer but at least I’m willing to think outside the “lets tax everything” box.

    • Patsy says:

      03:38pm | 10/10/11

      I dropped in to a vegetarian cafe at Milton on the south coast recently and a vegie burger and smoothie set me back $18. Go figure. It was nice but, I’ll drive on to the fisho at Gerroa next time.

    • John says:

      06:20pm | 10/10/11

      Nice to see there is still the great Aussie past time of taking the piss!!!

    • Tina says:

      05:26am | 07/10/11

      So the Danes have decided to put higher taxes on essential food items like butter and cream (which are basics for wonderful cooking and are certainly not bad for you if used within normal limits). But will they force McDonalds as well to raise their prices by 50 Eurocents per burger?

    • smith says:

      09:17am | 07/10/11

      Butter and cream are not essential.

    • Tina says:

      10:02am | 07/10/11

      They are used for standard home cooking and baking.

      So from your point of view “essential” is water and bread.

    • Saturated jeans says:

      10:23am | 07/10/11

      bulldust tina
      You can use a margarine or milk instead of butter and cream.

    • Tubesteak says:

      11:14am | 07/10/11

      Butter and crem is not essential.

      Grilled lean meat and steamed vegies do not require butter and cream.

    • ET says:

      12:27pm | 07/10/11

      Saturated jeans says: bulldust tina
      You can use a margarine or milk instead of butter and cream.

      Glad I don’t eat your crap then. I bake regularly for my kids - three to four times a week. I use all organic ingredients - flour, sugar, butter, etc. Margarine is a chemical and I’m not putting garbage like that into my family. We are all the “right” weight, physically active and extremely healthy. We have a mainly vegetarian diet.

      Try educating people about how to cook and eat properly rather than belittling them and charging a tax. My grandparents had high fat diets, ate meat, drank beer and lived into their 90s without spending a day in hospital. The world has gone completely off its rocker.

    • Tina says:

      12:52pm | 07/10/11

      Thank you ET

      Real cooking and baking involves real ingredients and not poor replacements. Such as I use alcohol for cooking and baking by the way and real vanilla and no “flavouring” stuff. That does not mean my cooking is fattening. And maybe look at portion sizes rather then telling me to replace cream with milk.

    • Saturated jeans says:

      01:23pm | 07/10/11

      Hey,
      What the hell.
      You can be in denial all you want.
      It’s your arteries that are getting clogged and will kill your heart later in life.
      Meh

    • Anne71 says:

      04:37pm | 07/10/11

      Totally, 100% agree with Tina here.  Nothing wrong with using cream and butter in cooking, as long as you don’t overdo it.  One of my favourite comfort foods is macaroni cheese - home made, that is, not that ghastly stuff out of a box.  Butter, milk, flour and cheese - no doubt the very thought of that would have the Tubesteaks and Saturated Jeans of the word collapsing to the floor, gibbering and clutching at their hearts, but it is delicious, I only have it very occasionally and it’s only a small serve.
      It’s not the presence of butter, cream, cheese etc in meals that does the harm - it is how much of that meal you actually consume that makes you fat. After all, why doesn’t France have an obesity problem, despite the fact that their foods are dripping with at least one of the above?Because their portions are nowhere near as big as ours.
      Australians just need to learn a bit of self-control, and stop stuffing their faces with more food than they actually need.

    • Anne71 says:

      05:02pm | 07/10/11

      Hey, Saturated Jeans? You remind me of a wonderful quote from the late, great George Burns, who died at the age of 100:
      “My doctor told me that if I wanted to live longer I had to cut out fatty food, salt, sugar, alcohol, smoking and late nights. You might not LIVE longer, but it will SEEM like longer.”
      Everything in moderation, m’kay? Except perhaps the smoking part.

    • Wynston Cruso says:

      05:27pm | 07/10/11

      Saturated jeans, you do realise butter is better for you than margarine right? Heres a hint, look at the ingredients of both. I’ll stick with my natural butter while you eat carcinogenics.

    • HeatherG says:

      07:29pm | 13/10/11

      Recent research has shown that margarine eaters are *as likely* as butter-only eaters to have cholesterol and heart disease—and obesity. The real culprit for heart disease is now known to be trans-fats, found more often in manufactured vegetable oils, and not at all in butter. Transfats are well-known in EU (but often ignored in the US and Australia) as being more detrimental for internal function than saturated fats.

      Tax on obesity is all very well, but the science on food changes almost daily—and depending on body type. “Low fat” is making some people fat—because they up their intake of sugar (low fat foods are often higher in sugar). The reason why butter is more of an “essential” than margarine for baking is that mono-and poly-unsaturates change their chemical composition with heat (butter doesn’t).

      Fats are fats, as far as kj count is concerned: margarine will make you as “fat” as butter, kilo for kilo. However butter is nominally healthier in *most* cases as it doesn’t contain the transfats that lead to real internal problems. It also doesn’t contain the same level of artificial flavourings and colourings—just cream and salt, whereas margarine needs huge amounts of chemicals just to make it look edible (the raw product resembles vegemite in colour).

      I won’t feed my kids that artificial crap, so my home cooking has butter in it. NONE of my 6 kids (aged 10 - 21) are overweight.

    • Steve says:

      05:31am | 07/10/11

      Penbo, I see what you’re saying, and I also see what the Greens are saying. I don’t think all Greens voters are lentil eating sarong wearing hippies. I voted Green at the last election (mostly because the rest were awful), and I work in an office, eat meat (tofu - gross!) and drive a car.

      The Greens are the not only ones calling for a congestion tax and you wil note these are in place the world over, including London. The theory makes sense, you get more people off the road and onto public transport - win win. Of course the mechanics of the tax or charge need to be right and the public transport system needs to be decent, but I don’t think the idea should just be brushed off because the smelly Greens brought it up at the forum - that’s just pure populism.

      As for fat tax, I also see some merit in making people who are overweight and will likely be a burden on the health system (funded through everyone’s taxes) to pay a bit more. How this is achieved obviously requires deep thought and some case studies/experimentation to trial what does and doesn’t work with regards to reducing the obesity rate. A flat tax on ‘fat’ may or may not be the best way to achieve it. I’m with you in that I cook with a lot of olive oil (not sure of the fat content) but that is not unhealthy and it would be a shame if that costed extra. But again I don’t think the idea of a ‘fat tax’ should be off the agenda to talk about.

      It’s not about being paternalistic either, telling people what’s good or bad. The hardcore Greens’ voters might see it as a moral issue, but I and plenty of others see it’s about reducing the burden on the health system either by reducing the obesity rate, or making them pay a bit more for their healthcare (as would happen under private health insurance - you’re premium would be higher if you were obese). Like you said, they are well-meaning taxes (if there is such a thing) so if we can target them right maybe they can also be effective. Unfortunately that won’t happen if it’s off the agenda our health system will likely suffer as a result and we won’t be getting the best system our tax dollars could provide.

    • Tina says:

      06:11am | 07/10/11

      But thats the point. Fat is not bad. Only overconsumption is bad. So why should slim people be punished for buying essential foods or even the occasional indulging? I exercise a lot and I know I can reward myself with pizza when I like without getting fat.

    • James In Footscray says:

      07:40am | 07/10/11

      People who play sport get injured, so they’re also a burden on the health system. As are cyclists, factory workers and chefs. So I assume they should all pay higher taxes as well?

    • Tina says:

      08:49am | 07/10/11

      @ James

      Unless you play professional sports I think it is fair to say that a person that does the occasional run or cycling is a lesser burden than heavily overweight people. But any kind of “overdoing” is harmful. Alc, smoking, eating, and sometimes sports.

      I think though that sports (including some injuries) is beneficial in many ways. Its so good against stress, you get some fresh air, you socialise, you look attractive and confident…. I know its not easy to get started and its work, but its so worth it.

    • Hermano says:

      09:00am | 07/10/11

      James, seeing as you bring cyclists into it (someone always does eventually), I’ll point out that more motorists are injured every year than cyclists, and most cycling injuries come about from altercations with cars.  So by your logic motorists should be taxed more heavily.  The fewer cars on the road, the better off society is.

    • James In Footscray says:

      09:36am | 07/10/11

      @ Hermano, sorry, it wasn’t meant to be anti-cyclist! Sure, let’s make it drivers. The point remains - it’s tricky once you start suggesting certain behaviours should attract a tax because they constitute a ‘burden on society’.

    • Blind Freddy says:

      09:57am | 07/10/11

      @Tina

      If you only indulge occasionally then you would be paying less tax than someone who over indulges. The economic effect or punishment would be proportional (literally).

    • David C says:

      11:21am | 07/10/11

      so we should tax people that go out on a cold day without a scarf and get the flu?
      I think you will find genetics is the main dirver of peoples health

    • Alf says:

      12:21pm | 07/10/11

      People who have kids are also adding massively to the burdens on the health system - for decades.  Some sort of tax on sex, perhaps?

    • Pedal says:

      06:02am | 08/10/11

      Yes but car drivers already pay extra to make up for the fact that they get injured: car registration, drivers license, third party insurance. Cyclists don’t pay this.

    • LC says:

      02:36pm | 08/10/11

      Motorists already pay plenty. Insurance, registration, license, taxes upon buying a car and to cap it all high fuel prices, making running an inefficient car for your daily commute impossible unless you’re rich, who I can guarantee would not be affected in the slightest by another car-ownership tax or a congestion tax.

      Congestion taxes and car ownership taxes are not required, and should not even be considered for a moment until a huge leap is made in the quality of public transport services (specifically in terms of safety, crowdedness, reliability as well as the introduction of 24/7 services), and will only hurt families in outer suburbs (where reliable and safe public transport is unavailable) and country dwellers (where any public transport is unavailable). If thinking that means I’m taking the populist opinion, then sue me!

    • Direct says:

      08:51am | 10/10/11

      @Tina, you think it’s fair to say that amateur and semi professional sports people have less impact on hospitals, but you’d be wrong. I guess you’ve never spent much time in emergency wards.

    • Against the Man says:

      06:05am | 07/10/11

      Why not reward people who choose to live healthy lifestyles? Get a yearly medical check up, if you do your part and make the grade (can’t penalise someone with a disease that is inherited or beyond their control like type 1 diabetes vs an obese person who sustains on Maccs 24-7) you get a discount on taxs/ health insurance etc.

      I know most people will be motivated to get their weight down, cholesterol level down, quit smoking or at least cut down if there was a significant amount of money to be gained from it.

      Good to see PM Brown coming up with family-unfriendly ideas, can’t wait for them to be implemented via his servant Gillard.

    • Bruce says:

      11:56am | 07/10/11

      Ag the Man: Great idea. Encouragement not punishment. PM Browns idea is more about punishing society, as is most of the greens approach to most issues. The greens just do not like the world we live in. An unhappy bunch of sad wingers who want to go back to the horse and cart. Maybe PM Boob can suggest an ‘oxygen tax’ ....better take that back, he might do it !!

    • xar says:

      02:06pm | 07/10/11

      THIS is something I could get behind were it not for the fact that the factors that influence obesity are more complex than a. diagnosed health problem or b. willful disreguard of healthy choices. There are indeed genetic components and new links being discovered all the time, and there are indeed socio-economic components that make your idea unfeasable. You also fail to adress the problems people face when trying to lose weight, there are very few scientificly sound weight loss methods out of all those promoted and sold. Most, infact almost all people who lose significant amounts of weight fail to keep those kilos off long term and the group most noticably left out of formulating ways to tackle obesity is those who are obese - and with a culture that so readily embraces fat-hatred and a medical community not keen on publisising the fact that people can be overweight, and even obese and still meet all markers of basic fitness (and indeed that thin people can fail them),  it makes for a much more complex issue than most people realise.

    • acotrel says:

      06:15am | 07/10/11

      ’  Im sure the fatties will soon be motivated into action if you sting their wallets.’

      Again we get into coercion and negative reinforcement ?  Perhaps we should look into the psychological factors of living in modern society, and learn to PARTICIPATE.  I was once in a public bar, and a bloke asked me what footy team I barracked for.  I told him I wasn’t interested in football or cricket.  He said ‘so you’re not a sportsman?’  At the time I had been road racing a motorcycle four times a year for about twelve years !  In later years I have become fatter, because it’s so difficult to keep the urge to race going when you have the stressful job, kids and a mortgage.  However I believe that many people live their lives always spectating, never doing ! The system makes them fat !

    • Chris_D says:

      09:58am | 07/10/11

      @acotrel, do you have a point?

    • Hank says:

      10:07am | 07/10/11

      Your comment:
      Yeah mate Im probably out of line with the fatties name.  My best mates are well over weight but there has to be a solution sought to solve what is becoming the biggest health risk this country has ever faced.  Apart from the terrible cost on peoples well being, financially it is costing us millions.  People are so passionate about the anti-smoking agenda; “why should my taxes pay for the health care of those who choose to smoke” etc.  The same could be said about obesity.  If people are too weak to live healthy lifestyles maybe is should be encouraged through many avenues including financial means. 
      If you choose to be fat you pay for it.

    • Kim says:

      06:16am | 07/10/11

      All very well, Penbo to say that we should just leave people to make choices for themsleves and leave them to it, but there are great costs to the rest of society. Some folk need a carrot or a stick approach to motivate them. There are vast numbers of obese people presenting to end points like ICUs, and this diverts funds from other parts of healthcare. Those who turn up have families who plead with doctors and nurses to “fix my brother/mother/father” etc. The hip pocket wins out over education an awareness. Do both

    • Al says:

      08:54am | 07/10/11

      Kim, sorry, but it is definately not part of the governments duties to look after what foods I choose to eat. The safety of foods is another matter and this is their duty, but if a food is safe for consumption the fact that it may have adverse effects if consumed in excess is irrelevant.
      If people are that worried about it maybee the government should look at ceasing funding for self inflicted medical conditions (not just related to obesity, but smoking, alcohol, stupidity etc).
      Let them pay for the full amount out of their own pocket.

    • adam says:

      06:17am | 07/10/11

      I feel there is a level of snobbery in the discussion on a fat tax. All of it seems to centre around junk food from various well known franchise outlets and how inherently evil this stuff is, yet the same people swoon over a Zumbo pastry seen on Masterchef. It appears it’s OK for a certain subset of society to consume a couple of profiteroles but not for another subset to opt for a cheeseburger. Similar to the discussion re the alcopop tax. “Yes yes, tax the premix but leave my grange alone”.

      I think it high time we all of us concentrated on our own lives and left everyone else to do the same. Oh and stop looking to other nations for our future directions.

      also plus 1 Nigella

    • Adam Diver says:

      07:25am | 07/10/11

      Must be the name, but I agree.

      Tackling obesity by taxing one proponent of food indiscrimanantly is unbelievably stupid. In fact the idea of using taxation to alter eating habits, could only come from people who have a pre-disposition to tax.

      The food you put in your mouth is not the issue, its the person behind it that is responsible. Simplifying the issue is a hinderence and not a help.

    • James In Footscray says:

      07:33am | 07/10/11

      @Adam, totally, this is designed to change what poor people eat. It’s not trying to change the diet of stockbrokers in Toorak. Basically, the Greens are saying the lower orders are not only fat, they’re dumb - they can’t work out that junk food is bad for them - so they need the Government’s help.

    • James1 says:

      08:49am | 07/10/11

      This is symptomatic of a wider problem to me.  Those on the fringes of politics, like the Greens and the extremist religious types, are not happy just living according to their value system themselves.  They feel compelled to push, even force, their values onto others.  This is why we see things like the Greens’ proposed tax, and religious opposition to gay marriage.  Its not enough for a Green to just eat healthy or for Christians and Muslims to not gay marry; they have to make sure that no one else can either.

    • Mahhrat says:

      09:03am | 07/10/11

      @James, it says that, and it’s absolutely correct.

      We are incredibly poorly educated in this country about food, largely because we’ve come from a fat and carbohydrate-rich anglo-saxon background (in most cases).

      When we were all farmers, working 14 hours a day, we could eat meat and three veg every day and it was okay.  Now we all sit at desks, it’s bad for you.

      A fat tax is a good preventive measure.  I would rather there be a subsidy to cheapen the price of fruit, veggies and lean meats, but that is almost impossible to implement.

      I support the tax, and I’m 139 kilo.  So whatever.

    • Tubesteak says:

      11:24am | 07/10/11

      Adam
      You may be able to find some proponents who are advocating for what you say they advocate. However, generally, I think it comes down to taxing the amount of fat, sugar and salt in meals. This could be levied right back at source (for example, tax on a tub of butter).

      If you use these things to cook then you will be taxed. This doesn’t matter if you do it in your home or go to Maccas. You’ll pay either way.

      Hopefully, it will work that way and not just a tax on fast food outlets.

    • LC says:

      06:26pm | 07/10/11

      Agreed Adam.

      There are undertones of elitism in this debate. At the end of the day, exactly what you eat does not matter, it’s HOW MUCH you eat per meal. As one dietician said “To accurately determine the number of calories in a healthy looking meal, even a salad, guess the number of calories in it and double that figure”.

    • Kim says:

      06:19am | 07/10/11

      maybe a tax break/health insurance reduction for those who can present as non obese, to put it loosely, as an incentive. i.e. reward rather than punish.

    • thatmosis says:

      06:19am | 07/10/11

      Smokers are forced to pay for their addiction to ciggies so its only fair that obese people apy for their addiction but not at the expense of others who enjoy the occasional fatty foods. It should be law that those who for non medical reasons are obese pay for all their own medical expenses, pay for the extra seat they take up on planes and other transport plus a weight tax especially on aircraft. I know they will bitch and complain that this is discrimination but smokers have had this for years. If they are obese through their own actions then why shouldnt they pay the extra and why should those who look after their health be forced to pay for them. I therefore agree with a fat tax but a targetted tax that only hits those who deserve it.

    • marley says:

      07:39am | 07/10/11

      Smokers pay extra for smokes.  They don’t pay their own medical expenses.  So, whay you should be recommending is that all fatty and/or sugary foods have a fat tax added - skinny people who don’t eat much of it won’t pay much tax, fat people will. Fair is fair.

    • Joan says:

      09:15am | 07/10/11

      Time for Nicole Roxon to rollout her plain packaging - sell cream buns, all satuated fat products wrapped in pictured grand pot bellied,boob hanging men and big wobbly backsided muffin top jean wearing women, a tummy sliced open to expose piles of kilos of blubber. Lets strip them bare and get the real picture. Poster size pictorial warnings in all restaurants and food oulets First Brown/Gillard want a useless costly Carbon Tax (won’t change the climate)  on everything, now tax on saturated fats—Bob the PM - euthanasia, gay marriage -  the new Australia - Bobs way- little`Green Book` way-  cos you have no say while Bob Brown the PM . Who can forget the pic of Gillard signing away her PM role to Bob Brown - the big deal Sept 2010 - was obviously signing over PM role to Bob it would seem.  Taxing saturated fat is just a money grab as usual and Bob engineering of Australia is happening right now the Bob Browns `s little `Green Book` way - and please don’t you dare question- we have ways of dealing with you - not yet - but we`re working on it. Bob Brown `Green Book` sounds very much in the style of Red Book and accompanied with same zealotry. A scarey time, brainless time for Australia as Australians turned into robotic,lame, zombies by Brown/Gillard and cornball government. While China bursts into 21st century `capitalistic` style ,  Brown/Gillard dragging Australia into 21st Century following Mao 1960s style. Australia the biggest loser .

    • Cam says:

      09:02am | 08/10/11

      Joan we’d just need photos of Gillard and Brown naked in fast food outlets and people would be running so fast to escape with their scorched retinas…. there, problem solved!

    • acotrel says:

      06:35am | 07/10/11

      What is Food Standards Australia doing about junk food ?

    • The Badger says:

      09:26am | 07/10/11

      nothing.
      They haven’t even made coles and woolworths list the trans and saturated fats contained in their baked goods.
      totally useless.

    • Macca says:

      06:37am | 07/10/11

      As I said earlier in the week; Sugar and Salt content in food contributes as much, if not more so, to obesity.

      Although if I keel saying this they’ll start taxing that too…

    • marley says:

      06:38am | 07/10/11

      If we’re going after fat, we should do what’s being tried out in some places in North America - and ban transfats from restaurant food.  Unlike butter, there is nothing good to be said about transfats - entirely unhealthy by any standard.  And eliminating it especially from fast food joints would be a start.

    • Seamus says:

      06:44am | 07/10/11

      Your summing up got it in one, Penbo.  ‘What an impertinence ....’  But that’s Mr Brown in a nutshell isn’t it?

    • Retired Soldier says:

      07:50am | 07/10/11

      Car Bumper Sticker during the Franklin River protests said ” if it’s Brown, flush it”
      Pity they had not done so at the time.

    • C1 says:

      06:54am | 07/10/11

      Ahhh Dave,

      I agree with you regarding Nigella - she is the thinking man’s pinup girl.

      That woman makes cooking Sexxxyyy!!!! That last comment comes from my wife.

    • Cry in my Gin says:

      07:07am | 07/10/11

      The bigger the cushion,
      The sweeter the pushin,
      The bigger the waist band,
      The deeper the quicksand,
      Big bottoms,
      Big bottoms,
      Talk about mudflaps,
      My girls gottem…....

    • Freddie Mercury says:

      09:35am | 07/10/11

      Nigella Lawson
      On TV, they quit showing her from the waist down years ago because she’s so wide she has to put some evoo on her hips to get through doorways

      on another note

      Oh, won’t you take me home tonight?
      Oh, down beside your red firelight
      Oh, and you give it all you got
      Fat bottomed girls, you make the rockin’ world go round
      Fat bottomed girls, you make the rockin’ world go round

    • Steve Perry says:

      09:50am | 07/10/11

      @Cry in my Gin -

      Loving the Spinal Tap reference!! grin

    • adam says:

      10:10am | 07/10/11

      In reply Freddie

      I like big butts and I can not lie
      You other brothers can’t deny
      That when a girl walks in with an itty bitty waist
      And a round thing in your face
      You get sprung, wanna pull out your tough
      ‘Cause you notice that butt was stuffed
      Deep in the jeans she’s wearing
      I’m hooked and I can’t stop staring
      Oh baby, I wanna get with you

    • emel says:

      06:55am | 07/10/11

      The Greens should be stop wasting valuable time trying to ‘Scandinavianise’ our society by nannying us into healthier lifestyles and concentrate on issues of moral and ethical importance such as protecting the environment from stupidity and greed. By punishing the overweight, the Greens display little psychological, socio-economic understanding of this issue.
      It is already poor economic reasoning to choose fat-laden processed food over fresher alternatives which are often cheaper and readily available. To further slug these same people with yet more tax will just increase poverty and create more stress for people already doing it hard.
      There is no logic in being overweight. people won’t change their lifestyle because of an increased tax.
      Stress is a killer.
      I agree the answer here lies in early education in cooking and nutrition. Perhaps Govt. funding should be diverted from propping up metaphysical organisations that achieve nothing and instead be poured into the education system. Hard when the left of Australian politics are so god-fearing.

    • Tina says:

      07:12am | 07/10/11

      I would love to think we can grant people some brain that they know what food is good and what is bad and act accordingly. But the number of obese people shows that that is not true unfortunately. But because some people cant control themselves I dont want to have to pay for it.

    • Don't be fooled says:

      07:22am | 07/10/11

      The government should be more productive to earn the money from investment instead riping the civilian by using different name for taxing!

      The best way is to put a cap on all the Government past and present ministers’ salary, pension, allowance and put a limit to their entitlement. instead of give them an open checque, this will help our encomics,
      and inline with the civilian.

    • David says:

      07:35am | 07/10/11

      Those incredulous imbeciles who support the greens with their ‘’ holier than thou attitude ‘’ and policies need culling in the electoral sense . We are a free people and with the proper education we will survive and we should not be made the scapegoat for failed politicians . We are on this earth for a short time and be able to live and eat as we want and not to be punished for not obeying nutritional laws as they are dictated . Most of it is BULLSHIT and a cash cow for the nutritionists .

    • Oxnard says:

      10:14am | 07/10/11

      Well if funding was made available for proper education then nutrionists would have a concentrated goal rather then having to fend for themselves and develop random diets and publish food findings constantly, they need to make a living. So I’m not sure where you are calling BS.

      I agree people can eat what they want, but unless people understand wholly the consequences of what they are doing to their body with the food choices they make then many will end up becoming a burden for the rest of us. “Unhealthy” food can be enjoyed in moderation, no matter whether it is McDonalds or Zumbo pastries, but once people start abusing it then I have a problem…Because I don’t enjoy my health insurance rates rising despite the fact I barely use it because I am relatively healthy.

      The problem I see is that some unhealthy foods are simply too cheap. When you can buy a burger, chips and softdrink for $5-6 it is difficult to compete for fresh quality produce that is more expensive. The other problem is that a ridiculous amount of people do not know how to cook with fresh produce. The vast amount of pre-packaged food which contains unnecessary sugar, salt, fat, flavours, colours etc takes away the need for people to learn how to make simple sauces/dressings/marinades themselves (and dont tell me you dont have time, most of these things can be knocked up in 5-10minutes). and in the long run these are cheaper, healthier and alot tastier then the packaged alternatives.

      I’m definately not a greenie, but there is something satisfying about having a fridge full of fresh food and quality meat as opposed to plastic containers and sauce tins piling up in the pantry

    • centurion48 says:

      07:36am | 07/10/11

      @Penbo: “This is all well and good if you are one of those people who doesn’t have kids and lives in the inner city and gets around on an old bike”. If you don’t live in the inner city then you have no ‘right’ to bring your car into it. The congestion tax only applies to a very small area of London and is a good idea. Getting around by walking or on an old bike is sensible. You should try it.
      If you actually add up how much extra you might be slugged for your fine dining then it probably amounts to a few cents per week. A dob of butter here and a dollop of cream there won’t make a difference to you. You know full well that this is not aimed at people who eat a balanced diet. I am sure your article is just a means to let people know you have sophisticated tastes and are a great cook. Unfortunately, you are probably obese - even if you think the BMI charts are bullshit - and Nigella is probably morbidly obese.
      At least as long as we don’t have a congestion tax you will be able to drive between your home and the office without too much effort.

    • reddragon says:

      08:23am | 07/10/11

      The problem is that the proposal to tax fats is simplistic. You need to look at what type of fat and what its being combined with. Tansfats are bad and when combined with corn syrup a guaranteed killer. There is fat in an avacado and that is really good for you. The fat in butter, cheese, milk and eggs is good for you, in moderation.

      We do not need more taxes, we do need more common sense.

      Anyway, I will support a fat tax when we can have a flatulence tax on all those lentil eaters and will support congestion taxes when people who use public transport are charged the real cost of its supply. And I live in Stanmore, don’t own a car and travel on public transport.

    • BTK says:

      10:03am | 07/10/11

      “If you don’t live in the inner city then you have no ‘right’ to bring your car into it” Ah actually I do, I live in the suburbs and work in the city, the trains are shit and there are no buses to speak of, the trains are always delayed, by car pooling I get home an hour earlier than I would if I caught the train, if they made the public transport system more reliable and not break down as soon as it sprinkles then I would take the train

    • marley says:

      11:44am | 07/10/11

      Maybe the argument should be, if you live in the inner city, you have no right to own a car.

    • LJ Dots says:

      05:33pm | 07/10/11

      @marley, I think you might be on the right track, though I would prefer to see a flat ‘convenience’ tax on inner city residents.

    • Direct says:

      07:49am | 07/10/11

      The proposed fat tax is simple a tax on poor people. It is well documented that in developed nations that there is a corelation between obesity and low income. The poor don’t have time to travel to places to exercise safely, purchase and prepare fresh and healthy foods or have the money to afford personal trainers and person nutrionists, all things that rich people take for granted.

      Are we going to see a tax on high carbohydrate foods? You know, the foods that lead to obesity when coupled with low exercise, the foods that lead to the creation of small LDL particles, the major factor in heart disease?

    • James In Footscray says:

      07:51am | 07/10/11

      Do politicians now see their role as helping us ignorant people live better? Maybe they could tax trashy paperbacks so we read better literature? Or tax certain coloured paints (purple and orange, for example) so we decorate our homes more tastefully?

    • acotrel says:

      09:12am | 07/10/11

      ‘Maybe they could tax trashy paperbacks so we read better literature? ‘

      The Murdoch Press ?

    • BTK says:

      10:05am | 07/10/11

      “Maybe they could tax trashy paperbacks so we read better literature?” NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Leave my trashy romance novels alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Jane2 says:

      07:53am | 07/10/11

      Based on the sizes of many vegetarians I know, its not the fat taht is making us fat but the carbs. We are eating more pasta, rice and bread (and sugar)than ever in our past, enough to make vegetarians fat.

      Tax carbohydrate high foods.

    • James In Footscray says:

      08:23am | 07/10/11

      Could cheese and nuts be part of the issue though?

    • CynicalGoatWA says:

      10:54am | 07/10/11

      Spot on jane2. If people have ever heard of the Atkins diet (under which millions of people worldwide adhere to religiously), their philosophy is that it’s the carbs that are the cause of obesity, NOT FAT. In fact they encourage you to consume a “reasonable” amount of fat.

      And as far as family unfriendly policies go….what do you expect when the leaders of the two parties in the unholy alliance that is our federal administration, do not have families of their own?
      Not having a crack at childless couples or gay couples people….just stating the facts.

    • Aussie Wazza says:

      08:00am | 07/10/11

      Always STICK; never CARROT.

      Really it’s all about the Canberra leaches grabbing more of our money and the holier than thou attitude of the Greens being twisted to make it appear good and ‘for us’.

      Yes, taxes are spent back on things for the nation but ALWAYS with the attitude that THEY are spending their personal money as if it comes directly out of their wallet. Maggots, all of them (Well, most at least.)

      Why notsome carrots? Register, weigh in and be set a goal. Reach it and receive a prize. Atax rebate, a holiday (Bushwalking Tasmania).

      Government set up gyms and encourage the masses to participate. Participate and get tax rebates.  Free diet pills paid for by a tax on junk food.

      Sports these days concentrates on the elite sports person with little concern for the masses. A good sportsman is seen as someone who attends the football, watches jack high and the races on T.V. and wears a club jersey to the pub.

      Unless you are of a pretty high standard you wont get to play sport. Even at school. Every kid should be ‘made’ to play in at least a school sport.

      Start school 30 minutes earlier and use that time on exercise. To run or to swim.

      Unfortunately the people who need the most get the least attention. ‘Sorry you can’t play, you are out of condition, your fitness level is below par’. HELLO?

      Chickens and eggs. what came first.

      If a FAT TAX starts, ALL of the money must be spent on ways to help the whole population achieve fitness. NOT on hospitals, the Institute of sport in Canberra or more comfortable seats in football stadiums.

    • Tofurkey says:

      08:00am | 07/10/11

      Jesus Penbo, do you ever look at yourself in the mirror and wonder what happened to your integrity?

      What a pathetic hit-piece.

      Do you really think that this kind of concerted anti-Green pressure on this and other News Ltd owned sites is actually going to stop people from voting Green? If anything, you’re strengthening their belief that the Murdoch-owned press is not to be trusted, so even if you DO happen to print something factual about them at some point (fat chance… *ahem*) they’re not going to believe it because of the dozens and dozens of pointless hatchet jobs your parent company has run across the spectrum of media in this country.

      This is a preaching to the converted piece, and you’re a disgrace to your profession.

      (Hate tofu, loathe lattes, don’t drink chardonnay, own guns and shoot recreationally and I vote Green.)

    • Red F'n Meat says:

      08:21am | 07/10/11

      Clearly your upset.

      Has the author lied in his article? Has he made false statements?

      I’m curious to know why your so upset. Has the author lied about the Greens and their policies or has he told the truth about them and you don’t like them exposed? It seems to be a case of one or the other, but only one of those reasons is a reason to be upset.

    • jf says:

      09:03am | 07/10/11

      “own guns and shoot recreationally and I vote Green”

      Hypocrite.

    • Tofurkey says:

      09:26am | 07/10/11

      “The Australian Greens may well be a sanctimonious blight on the national political landscape…”

      Everything after this is pointless as it sets the tone of the article. Yes, those horrible sanctimonious Greens, with their wanting to stay out of people’s bedrooms instead of moralising at them about the sanctity of marriage.

      Yes, those horrible sanctimonious Greens, trying to ensure that we don’t pollute our drinking water and poison our food supply while we pay mining companies for the privilege of doing so.

      Yes, those horrible sanctimonious Greens, trying to give everyone in the country dental healthcare instead of accepting the status-quo and exempting dentistry from medicare for the benefit of the Australian Dentists Association lobby group.

      Get over the media-branded image of them and actually look at their policies. They’re basically the Liberal Party from the 50s-60s, before corporate ownership of our politicians set in.

    • Tofurkey says:

      09:37am | 07/10/11

      @jf - If you’d bothered to take the time to read their policies, you’d see that they’re not anti-gun at all.

      They want more registration of firearms in general, restriction on certain types of ammunition and bans on semi-automatics. All things I agree with, and none of which contradict my use of firearms.

      Here you go : http://nsw.greens.org.au/policies/firearms

      But you keep yourself ignorant like a good Labor/Liberal voter. I’m sure it will work out for you in the long run.

      Please, don’t throw me in the briar patch of talking about their policies… Anything but that!

    • TimB says:

      09:50am | 07/10/11

      Hold up. I thought Abbott was supposed to be the one taking us back to the 50’s. And that was bad.

      Now we find out it’s actually the Greens, as admitted by Tofurkey here.

      Interesting.

    • David says:

      10:02am | 07/10/11

      Your nom de plume should be ‘’ Gofluckey ‘’ You are a pathetic donkey voter .

    • jf says:

      10:38am | 07/10/11

      Tofurkey says:10:37am | 07/10/11

      “@jf - If you’d bothered to take the time to read their policies, you’d see that they’re not anti-gun at all.”

      Assuming that you shoot at targets only, I humbly apologise for my presumption.

      The Greens are still numnuts though.

    • hot tub political machine says:

      10:41am | 07/10/11

      As I’m pro-life my conscience would give me a hard time if I chose to vote Green. I think however, jf has a point. Coverage of the Greens in the mainstream media is abysmal at the moment. If your one of those unfortunate enough to never leaves the MSM for you information – you would have no clue what they are up to because, if you think your too mature to endure endless comments about people’s coffee preferences – there ain’t much word count left in the News Ltd reports.

    • Anna C says:

      08:01am | 07/10/11

      This is why I dislike the Greens so much cause they are always telling us what’s best for us. Last time I checked I was an adult and could make my own food choices. Isn’t this supposed to be a democracy. What next?

      By the way I loooove tofu.

    • Anon says:

      09:37am | 07/10/11

      Exactly, and if you want to eat (a lot) of the “bad stuff” part of that is you accept the health consequences. As for the children, last time I knew there was and still is a thing called PARENTING!

      Still in a purely bourgeois ideology, the Greens lost my vote.

    • Tina says:

      10:05am | 07/10/11

      Thank you. I agree. Mind you though that obviously some adults make bad choices. But even making a bad decision is my decision.

    • Pete (BD) says:

      08:07am | 07/10/11

      Well havening read or should I say skimmed over the comments so far it seems all the fatties are hiding their faces in shame once again and feeling guilty because of some skinny twits who lucked in in the gene pool.

      Ah well I’m feeling terrible and everyone hates me because I’m faaaat, whats in the fridge.

      HEY I"M FAAAAAT I’m even FAAAT when I’m below a healthy weight for my built.
      Ironic ain’t it when a faaaaat person is told by a d-o-c-t-o-r that they NEED to gain a bit of weight because they are actually starving themselves and their body is feeding off muscle, the heart is a muscle,

      All my life I have eaten the carrot or piece of cerley while my skinny mates eat cream buns and ice cream, cakes, all sorts of sticky gooey FAAAT food.

      While I was jogging playing union AND league as well as running to the beach and surfing every day I felt very lonely because my skinny mates were all out at cafes etc sipping latte and munching on whatever was available while they sat on their butts.

      Yep Mr beanpole to you and your “in set” I’m FAAAAT and should be punished because my fourty inch chest and thirty inch waist are no longer and I no longer look like an inverted pyramid but more like a bouncy beach ball, mainly because I am fifty years older and write resumes, criteria and cover letters for the current mainly illiterate skinny in set.

      Where’s the spell check on this thing darn it.

    • Tina says:

      10:08am | 07/10/11

      Stop whining.

      Its not about weight as a number or being pretty. Are you healthy? Yes? Good.

    • Pete(BD) says:

      03:59pm | 07/10/11

      WHo is whining Tiny Tina I have had 65 years of this your FAAAAT business enough is enough… hey I know lets pick out all the FAAAT people and tax ‘em individualy then the really smug anorexic “petite” people can feel really justified and happy because they are better than FAAAT people ....that is untill they begin to develop the mid life bulge

    • subotic says:

      08:19am | 07/10/11

      I sooooo thought a tax was designed to “raise revenue” as opposed to punishing people.

      Bugger Bob Brown. Bugger the Greens. And bugger you bloody vegetarians.

      TAX TOFU. To the bloody hilt.

      Increase the cost of tofu to $100 per 25 grams and there’s the tax money for whatever “revenue purpose” is required.

      Stop punishing the rest of us and trying to dictate how we live for god’s sake.

    • NicoleG says:

      08:21am | 07/10/11

      Why don’t they just take everyone’s pay each week and give us food stamps? ‘Oh look I’m sorry, but you’ve already had a cake of butter and two 500ml bottles of cream this quarter. You’re not due for them until the next. Here’s a couple of food stamps for some mung beans artichokes. Enjoy!’

      No. Just no. I’ll eat what I want and I’ll be f#$? if I’ll let a bunch of tree hugging nuff nuffs dictate what I eat!

    • jf says:

      08:28am | 07/10/11

      “In a spirit of fairness”

      The Greens aren’t interested in fairness.

      They are interested in sameness and equalness: just as long as they get to set the benchmark for what everyone should be equal to and as long as they are exempt from complying.

    • Deena says:

      11:05am | 07/10/11

      What is interesting to me is watching PM Bob Brown dictate the terms of agreement again. The really is where is the Federal Minister of Health in all this talk? Nicola Roxon gave us some pathetic plain packaging on ciggies with added tax and then disappeared. What about the role of alcohol and cheap fast food is chronic disease? What about fast food ads that target children? What about making exercise and activities accessible to all not just the rich or those who live in nice neighbourhoods? Either the government does something (like a nanny state) or nothing (liberty baby) not these token efforts that cost taxpayers and does nothing for them in return. Labor needs to get to work, 4 years wasted and we have nothing to show for it!

    • Markus says:

      08:31am | 07/10/11

      When all the arable land in both Australi and the rest of the world is finally run into the ground (so to speak), obesity is going to be the least of this country’s troubles.

    • Dan says:

      08:40am | 07/10/11

      Penbo -

      I agree with you on the fat tax and car-ownership tax.

      BUT I can see the merit in a congestion tax. It’s worked wonders in London, de-clogging the CBD and getting people on the Tube. Sydney’s CBD is the most accessible part of the city - quite literally, every train leads there. There are few excuses for driving in.

      I understand why a mum with 3 kids in the outer suburbs needs a car, as part of life. Hell, I need my car. But a toll on entering the heart of the CBD, with funds raised re-invested in public transport, is a wonderfully sensible idea.

    • Nasty just for the sake of it says:

      08:41am | 07/10/11

      If the Scandinavians are starting a fat tax - we will get it in 10-15 years as Canberra is an ideas void.  What do you do if you have not the capacity for original thinking?  Use the public service version of having an idea and hold a forum.
      Our political leaders certainly fight above their weight in the World Class Useless Championships - thank goodness we have big holes in the ground.

    • colroe says:

      08:53am | 07/10/11

      Fat parents = fat kids!!!  Build the little darlins’ in their own image!

    • Taswombat says:

      12:19pm | 11/10/11

      hmmm WRONG ! , My boy is thin and I am obese (huge) , he knows about healthy eating and helps dad get his exercise.

    • Ryan says:

      08:57am | 07/10/11

      Finally Tony Abbott can accurately call something a “great big fat new tax” !

    • TimB says:

      10:07am | 07/10/11

      Finally AASQ can contribute with a worthwhile post, that he’s proud to put his own name to!

      ...Wait. No he can’t. Shame.

    • Ryan says:

      02:36pm | 07/10/11

      Finally Timb can contribute with a worthwhile comment.

      ...Wait. No he can’t. Shame.

    • Zaf says:

      09:24am | 07/10/11

      [It shows a desperate lack of imagination that the only way they can envisage changing poor culinary behaviour is through the blunt instrument of taxation. ]

      The thing is, taxation works to reduce smoking, and taxation works to reduce binge drinking - so why would taxation NOT work to reduce cholesterol intake?

      Why do we need to reinvent the wheel?

      Especially when you can see that outright banning stuff (like heroin) does not, actually, work, or only works a little bit, and is very very expensive.

      Taxation is an elegant, effective way to modify behaviour.

    • fml says:

      10:06am | 07/10/11

      Because i dont think Taxation has reduced smoking or alcohol consumption, people just drink cheaper alcohol at home before they go out, and the reduction in smoking is more than likely due to less designated smoking areas and increased education.

    • Magic Dragon says:

      10:21am | 07/10/11

      “The thing is, taxation works to reduce smoking”
      Does it? It never stopped me from starting and it was never a reason for me to quit. I’ve known plenty of people to still smoke regardless of cost. I know these are only personal anecdotes, but are their any their studies indicating a link between price, taxation level and smoking cessation?

    • Zaf says:

      10:28am | 07/10/11

      fml - rising prices are at least part of the motivation to reduce or stop.  speaking from personal experience.

      whether the Govt *should* be telling you what to ingest or not is another issue.  and where should we draw the line and why.

    • Dan says:

      11:21am | 07/10/11

      @fml….really? The enormous increase in the cost of cigarettes has nothing to do with the decline?

      Alcohol taxes are completely screwed. Goon is often cheaper than bottled water. Having just finished university, I can promise you this is the case.

      Cigarette taxes are massive, and massively effective. I know plenty of young people who smoke, but all can barely afford it. Instead of a pack a day like their parents did, it’s now more like a pack a week.

      The hip-pocket is directly attached to the heart. If you want to target something - simply bump up the price.

      I don’t actually agree with a fat tax, for similar reasons to Penbo. But I agree it would certainly work.

    • fml says:

      12:29pm | 07/10/11

      Zaf,

      I agree when you say increased costs are part of the motivation to stop, but we are talking about quitting in actuality. I agree its an incentive to quit, but whether it actually reduces the levels of smoking, i dont think it is the primary factor.

      All smokers said it, They will start off with smoking, then move onto alcohol, now obesity, when will it stop??? When the skinny, tee-total non-smokers stop taking it upon themselves to cure everybody else of their afflictions. When it is their turn to be taxed, just watch all the smoking, drinking individuals turn their heads in apathy.

    • fml says:

      01:15pm | 07/10/11

      Dan,

      Nothing? no, not nothing. But the ban on smoking areas and education on the effects of smoking have had a bigger impact on reducing smoking. That is what i am claiming.

    • RyaN says:

      09:48am | 07/10/11

      If the greens had a hand in it, prepare yourselves for death taxes, of that you can guarantee they were putting forward.

      The greens are by far not a party that represents the environment, they are a communist party dressed up in the cloak of environmentalism.

    • Blind Freddy says:

      10:18am | 07/10/11

      A tax on inheritence would certainly test the political rights adherence to the mythical “meritocracy” that justifies all of their inequitable ideologies.

    • FiOnA says:

      10:28am | 07/10/11

      You get the first million tax free.
      Everything else, you get 50 cents on the dollar.

    • RyaN says:

      04:05pm | 07/10/11

      @FiOnA: I get a trust! If I had that kind of money it would be in a trust to keep the filthy greens hands off it. Probably the money would be kept offshore to keep safe from the peasant scum

    • jf says:

      07:13pm | 07/10/11

      RyaN says: 05:05pm | 07/10/11

      “@FiOnA: I get a trust! If I had that kind of money it would be in a trust to keep the filthy greens hands off it. Probably the money would be kept offshore to keep safe from the peasant scum”

      The Greens don’t think that far ahead.

      They are into feel good, motherhood policies that fail the moment you think of the practical impact. They play chess one move at a time and complain about the game when their move leads to check-mate. Idiots.

    • LC says:

      02:41pm | 08/10/11

      Thanks for the idea RyAn smile

    • Knemon says:

      10:01am | 07/10/11

      Researchers from Yale University say a fat tax is the only effective way to combat obesity and David Penberthy says it’s all paternalistic nonsense, go figure.

      “a tax on eating well” – Really David? HTF is adding a tax to fatty foods a tax on eating well?

      “people simply don’t know how to cook any more, or have convinced themselves that they don’t have time to cook” – What a load of bullshit…it’s a pathetic excuse for being too bloody lazy.

      Australia is already regarded as the most obese nation on the planet, healthy food and exercise is the way to a less obese nation, if a tax on fatty foods acts as a disincentive to eating such foods then all the better. As for exercise, getting the little darlings off their game consoles and into some outdoor activity would be a good start.

      Penberthy’s redneck hatred of anything green knows no bounds.

    • TimB says:

      10:40am | 07/10/11

      And Knemon’s love of a totalitarian Green nanny state knows no bounds.

    • Knemon says:

      12:34pm | 07/10/11

      @ TimB - “totalitarian Green nanny state”

      ...and where exactly is this state?

      Utter rubbish.

    • TimB says:

      01:20pm | 07/10/11

      At the moment? Non-existent thankfully. But it’s not for the lack of trying by the Greens.

      God help us if they ever get more power than the minority influence that they hold now. State controlled media (stop writing mean things about the Greens or we’ll take away your license), taxes or bans on all behaviour that the Greens disapprove of, and a generally shitty time for those of us who live in the real world.

      The Bolta (I know how much you love him) had a great idea once upon a time. Inflict *all* the Greens policies on a test case, say the Electorate of Melbourne.  Then let’s see what happens.

    • Blind Freddy says:

      10:03am | 07/10/11

      The Greens (and green voters) are used to ridicule. The funny thing is though that on just about every major issue since their founding (in the 70’s) they have been on the side of history, and the angels.

      The Liborials have adopted more green policies over the last thirty years than the Pitts have adopted children. Many of the concepts one derided by the mainstream (or as AtM often screams - “the majority!”) are now mainstream policies.

      There is no shame in being ahead of your time.

    • Matt says:

      10:16am | 07/10/11

      Isn’t it ironic how Bob Brown and other Greens are the first to cast aspersions about Tony Abbott’s policies being influenced by his Catholicism, yet it’s fine for the Greens to push their lifestyle of tofu munching, bike riding, atheism on all of us.

    • Door says:

      11:27am | 07/10/11

      If you think greens are all about tofu, bike riding and atheism, you are a fool.

    • hot tub political machine says:

      10:19am | 07/10/11

      Thing is Penbo, this is a case of the tension between who you are and who you could be, between how it is and how it should be, yeah…I dare you to move, I dare you to look that song up on youtube……

      But yeah, ummm…..it is about the reality gap. Sure people should know how to cook, and ideally every kid would grow up with parents that teach them how to cook lots of nice fast easy healthy meals for the midweek. But it just doesn’t happen that way. Plenty of people out there in the broken places don’t have a clue how to cook….

      So like every western nation, our health budget gets more and more impossible to manage each year (every year health eats – pardon the pun – a bigger chunk of the budget than last time). So what is the solution to behaviour change if not a fat tax (the stick) what is going to make a more fair and equitable taxing for health purposes, what is the carrot?

    • marley says:

      08:06am | 08/10/11

      @hot tub - well, I’d say putting classes in nutrition and basic cooking into the school system would be a good idea. Giving free classes to people on low budgets could work as well.  Taking transfats out of the restaurant trade.  Regulating the amount of sugar and salt added to breakfast cereals.  Getting more free activity programs going.  Investing in (and supporting) cycle lanes. 

      I just don’t see a tax on one kind of fat as being the most cost-effective response to what is basically a knowledge problem.

    • bad elephant says:

      10:37am | 07/10/11

      I don’t think the fat tax will work, but I’m very annoyed that fat people, like smokers, are costing the healthcare system so much money. People that choose to be healthy seem to be subsiding a great deal of other peoples’ poor lifestyle choices. Perhaps obese smokers can contribute a percentage of their pay to my “holiday fund” in return? I’m 100% behind helping out the sick and needy…I just can’t view fat people as genuine recipients. As an obese person said to me once “you don’t get this fat overnight”. Australia’s fatty culture (and it is a cultural issue – go to France is you don’t believe it) has been accepted as the norm for far too long.

    • Tina says:

      11:03am | 07/10/11

      Certainly true. I am European and whereas fast food is available we have a huge trend towards healthy fast food and we are very vain and conscious about our bodies. Too much though sometimes.

      It is difficult to say who is draining the system through their own doing. Fatties sure do. So do smokers. And from my knowledge in my homecountry a medical insurance assess your health and then sets your premium. If you smoke, you pay more.

    • Pete(BD) says:

      04:46pm | 07/10/11

      European Tiny Tina? Wonderfull place you come from sooo much better than Aus aye? Sooo fit and trim everyone is there aye? So have they ALL got FAAAT critical Mouths that like to belittle those that may be genetically different to themselves????
      Stop the self adoration Tina wake up and smell the coffee ... its bloody full of anti oxidants

    • Kel says:

      09:09am | 08/10/11

      And what about drinkers? How many lives are destroyed by excess alcohol consumption? How much money is spent on health and policing? Oh that’s right, I forgot about Australian’s sacred right to consume alcohol until one is shit faced….
      Give me a pie chomper over a pisshead any day!

    • marley says:

      10:04am | 08/10/11

      @Kel - smokers and drinkers pay whacking great taxes for their vices, and smokers at least pay far more in tax and duties on tobacco than they cost the health care system.  The problem is that the taxes they pay don’t go into the health care system. 

      It will be the same with any fat tax - we’ll make people pay for their indulgences but won’t put the money into dealing with the effects of those indulgences.  All that money will go to consolidated revenue and be spent on god knows what, and the health care system will continue to limp along.

    • Kassandra says:

      10:58am | 07/10/11

      You couldn’t pay me enough to eat tofu (it’s just bland and icky stuff like eating cardboard I don’t care what you try to disguise it with) or use soy milk products either - I don’t want my boys getting vegetarian female hormones thank you! Lentils are fine though as long as there’s some meat on the plate as well, preferably charcoal grilled baby sheep.

      Putting a tax on “fat” content of food is a badly thought-out idea, but that’s par for the course for the green warriors and food police. If the goal is to encourage more healthy eating it would make more sense to penalise food that is heavily processed or contains a lot of additives and to give a tax discount to natural food, especially fresh food, and that would include most forms of milk, butter and cream. Tofu and soy products should have the s@#$ taxed out of them.

    • Amanda says:

      11:30am | 07/10/11

      Saturated fats - especially animal fats - have been in the human diet for eons. Surely we should be looking at more recent entries to our diet for clues into the relatively recent phenomena of rampant obesity? Highly processed foods maybe?..

    • Humter Gatherer says:

      01:26pm | 07/10/11

      Lack of exercise perhaps?
      sedentary lifestyle?
      We don’t work like we used to Amanda
      Eons ago we hunted for our food and expended lots of energy. Now we sit on our fat asses and consume far too much food.

    • Brisbane Bryn says:

      11:36am | 07/10/11

      Great!!! so all the people in lower socioeconomic areas will the fat and poor.

      I am really getting tired of the Greens conformist views, they are unoriginal, not thought out, have no concept of the future. This pretend communist party gives socialism such a bad rap.

    • Seth Brundle says:

      11:40am | 07/10/11

      I enjoy riding my motorbike to and from work each day, but there are people who are unhappy that I am not using public transport so it looks like riding my bike is going to be taxed beyond my reach.
      I also like drinking lots of beer.  I do it in the privacy of my home and am not a problem for anyone, but someone in the government doesnt like people drinking and it looks like drinking is going to be taxed beyond my reach (alco-pops already have been).
      I also like to eat tasty food, but someone in the government doesn’t like the fact that I am not a vegetarian so it looks like that is also going to be taxed beyond my reach.
      I like to heat my house in winter but someone in the government doesnt like the fact that I am using electricity, so electricity for heating will soon be taxed beyond my reach.
      I REALLY just wish the goverment wold GET THE #%$% OUT OF MY LIFE!

    • LC says:

      06:09pm | 07/10/11

      What’s these eco-idiots probably don’t know is that the carbon footprint of a motorbike is, what, 1/5th, 1/10th of that of a car? Not only that, but they take up a fraction of the space on the road, keeping cars moving more easily, meaning less fuel goes to waste.
      There are places in Australia where public transport is not going to be a viable option, and never will be anytime in the near future. The only alternative is to get these people on bikes. If Australia really wants a low-carbon future, it’s gonna have to start embracing motorcyclists with open arms.
      Maybe motorcyclists should untie against mistreatment from fellow drivers and the government and go a full working week where they ALL drive cars to work. Another few thousand cars or so on the road to contend with should be enough to make normal drivers and the government reconsider their attitudes towards motorcyclists.

      And another word of warning to the government: Tax alcohol all you like, but get too carried away and partygoers and kids will switch to cheaper bootlegged alcohol or worse, illegal drugs. At least with general alcohol you know how much is in it, the breweries have to meet strict hygiene and safety standards.

    • lee enfield says:

      11:47am | 07/10/11

      Seems as though we need a revolution to stop our governments from raping our wallets and   oppressing our rights and liberty.

    • Esteban says:

      11:47am | 07/10/11

      Tofu is flavourless or at best very bland. But even something bland can’t spoil the taste of the pork, chilli, spring onions and all the other condiments and herbs that go into you mapo tofu.

      It might be interesting to go back to that restraunt and order tofu mapo without tofu. I bet it is still kick arse good.

      I am with you on lentilswhen prepared as dhal. If seasoned (tempered) with the correct herbs and spices at the end of the process then this also bland dish is transformed to a tasty staple.Best served with a meat curry.

    • Benevolent Rapscallion says:

      12:18pm | 07/10/11

      Totally agree Penbo. Applying the GST to ready made meals, junk foods and takeaways hasn’t persuaded large numbers of people to cook for themselves, so a fat tax isn’t likely to do it either. Cooking nutritious meals doesn’t have to be time consuming or expensive. It just requires people to be organised and motivated.

    • Randy Newman says:

      12:28pm | 07/10/11

      Fat People got no reason
      Fat People got no reason
      Fat People got no reason
      To live

      They got big fat hands
      And fat eyes
      And they walk around
      Tellin’ great big lies
      They got fat noses
      And big fat teeth
      They wear platform shoes
      On their nasty fat feet

      They got big fat legs
      And they walk so low
      They got big fat cars
      That go beep, beep, beep
      They got big fat voices
      Goin’ eat, eat, eat
      They got grubby fat fingers
      And dirty fat minds
      They’re gonna get you every time
      Well, I don’t want no Fat People
      Don’t want no Fat People
      Don’t want no Fat People
      ‘Round here

    • Jane says:

      12:38pm | 07/10/11

      Don’t you dare tax my chocolate!! There’ll be war I tell you, war. Well, at least once a month.

    • HappyG says:

      12:40pm | 07/10/11

      Note to Bob Brown and the Greens: GTF out of my life. I, like the other 88% of the electorate didn’t vote for you so who gives you the right to propose, let alone decide what I can eat for Christs sake.

    • ausspud says:

      12:49pm | 07/10/11

      Want to know why Bob has no friends, cause
      “you cant win friends with salad”
      “you cant win friends with salad”

    • Jay says:

      12:52pm | 07/10/11

      When I see the Greens riding their bikes to parliament house and scrapping overseas junkets, then I will consider it. But as usual the Greens are good at controlling everyone’s lives. Never forget Hilter was a vegetarian,animal lover, non drinker, non smoker, Jew hating individual who had perverted sexual practices. Geez sounds like a party which has similar beliefs but holds the balance of power. I will stick with the Winston Churchills of the world thanks.
      I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly

    • Peter#1 says:

      12:54pm | 07/10/11

      David, each day that passes sees me getting more and more pissed off at the restrictions being placed on my freedom by a dictatorial regime.
      Little by little, by not standing up for our rights, our freedoms are being taken from us.
      What I eat, what I drink, or who I shag should be of no concern to the government of the day provided I do not infringe anyone else’s rights.
      There are restrictions in what we can say because of Political Correctness, proposed restrictions on gambling with the pre-commitment legislation.
      Where will it end?
      Politicians are elected as our representatives, not our masters!
      Our government could learn a valuable lesson by observing the many freedom movements that have sprung up around the world against dictatorial regimes.
      People will only tolerate so much before they revolt.

    • Richard says:

      01:08pm | 07/10/11

      The real problem is that people hate boring detail and love seeing strong opinions and conflict.  The reality is that this article and the majority of the comments from both sides are utter tripe which contribute nothing to this world.  This is because they adopt extreme positions which do not progress a reasonable debate about good policy.  Such an article would be considered just too boring for words but you know what - that is the only thing which would actually contribute something useful in this forum.  What I think is frankly pretty pathetic is that the writer of the article almost certainly knows this and is cynically manipulating his audience for the sake of personal aggrandisement.  David, you are frankly an oxygen thief.  Why don’t you think about finding a career which actually contributes something to society rather than seeking to polarise ill-informed people about issues which are deserving of more serious treatment.

      You useless numbnut.

    • The Cement Head says:

      02:04pm | 07/10/11

      Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow is the National flower of our time.
      The Coalition are the past. Yesterday
      The Labor is the present.  Today
      The Greens are the future. Tomorrow

    • The Cement Head says:

      02:07pm | 07/10/11

      The media presents things in black and white.
      The greens add color to the black and white!

    • Bris Jack says:

      03:12pm | 07/10/11

      Liberal or Green ?

      If a Liberal is a vegetarian, he doesn’t eat meat.
      If a Green is a vegetarian, he wants all meat products banned for everyone.

      If a Liberal doesn’t like guns, he doesn’t buy one.
      If a Green doesn’t like guns, he wants all guns outlawed.

      If a Liberal is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his situation.
      A Green wonders who is going to take care of him.

      If a Liberal doesn’t like a talk show host, he switches channels.
      Greens demand that those they don’t like be shut down.

      If a Liberal is a non-believer, he doesn’t go to church.
      A Green non-believer wants any mention of God and religion silenced. 

      If a Liberal decides he needs health care, he goes about shopping for it,
      or may choose a job that provides it.
      A Green demands that the rest of us pay for his.

      If a Liberal reads this, he’ll forward it so his friends can have a good laugh.
      A Green will delete it because he’s “offended.”

    • The Cement Head says:

      04:21pm | 07/10/11

      What happens if a Liberal wants to became a Green?

    • Dodge says:

      04:35pm | 07/10/11

      Not one, not two, but like five or six strawmen you’ve beaten to death!

      And I assume you mean ‘liberal party follower’ not an actual Liberal member of society? Or do you not know the difference? I’ll assmue you’re talking about conservatives.

      Firstly, no, a conservative sees a tv show and calls for it to be banned (like Catholics for instance who mostly vote conservative). Conservatives seek to mould society in the path of their God or Worse to appease their coporate overlords. Do you actually understand what you’re voting for? God (no pun intended) I hope so.

      And damn straight religion should be the last reference point in determining our Governance. You can reference the utopia’s found in the middle-east for the effect of religion on society.

      Universal Health care is one of the best things that ever happened to Australia… You like crime I suppose?

      I can’t stand the greens but talking in such absolutes borders on mild retardation. Desist.

    • hot tub political machine says:

      04:39pm | 07/10/11

      You would confuse the heck out of your American friends with their different interpretation of liberal.

    • TimB says:

      04:40pm | 07/10/11

      Very nice! I think I’ll save this one Jack.

    • TimB says:

      05:31pm | 07/10/11

      Dodgemost of your rebuttle seems centred around your assumption that all conservatives are religious (Catholic?). This is hardly true.

    • Elsa says:

      09:06am | 08/10/11

      Yes TimB I am a Liberal (voter) and an athiest. Oh and sometimes I feel bad about eating animals ...

    • Glen says:

      03:55pm | 07/10/11

      Well old Bob is taxing the air we breath so might as well tax our food too. Really sticking up for poor workers those Greens…

      Good job bringing the trendies out today Penbo.

    • Paleoflatus says:

      04:57pm | 07/10/11

      Well said!
      Give the Greens political power at your peril, but that doesn’t mean that some of the things they promote are not very enjoyable.

    • mick says:

      05:24pm | 07/10/11

      Maybe a fat tax is better than all of us having to pay for open heart surgery for people by the hundreds in a few years time.

    • stephen says:

      06:19pm | 07/10/11

      Don’t tax fat, but make exercize easier by introducing bicycle parking-stations in all our cities, free of charge and secured, and make PE, (professionally monitored ans assessed) at universities and schools a core subject that contributes to a degree course.
      If governments want to change our behaviour, the worst thing they can do is to forbid us to do things, like The Greens want to do.
      The positive aspect to coercian is imperative.

    • Hermes says:

      09:19am | 08/10/11

      The reality is that government needs money. With public health costs to soar in the future due to Australia’s ageing population, there needs to be an increase in taxes or an introduction of new taxes.

      The fairest tax is some tax that hits all of us equally, e.g. GST, but you cannot increase GST as this increases the cost of living and hits poor people hard at a time when many are struggling with the soaring costs of power and water bills.

      Hence the only answer is to tax the rich, e.g. modifying income tax rates so that everyone earning more than $80,000 per year has to pay higher income tax.

      The fat tax will likely hit the poor harder than the rich.

    • Daylight robbery says:

      06:14pm | 08/10/11

      Bob Brown is a plonker.  Australia has been built post vehicle population.  Much of the rest of the world is completely different.  Much of the rest of the world had wool mills with houses in the same town; terraced houses with infrastructure nearby.  Australia’s golden mile infrastructure is relatively low par some old areas early colonial state suburbs that haven’t been demolished.

      The laughable thing is this is the reason why the rest of the world wants to live in Australia.  I spoke to a German immigrant a fortnight ago at a barbecue.  His words were Germany is crap.  The windmills everywhere have destroyed the picturesque country.  He cant sell his parents outer suburban house because no one can afford to drive to work yet it sits amongst some of the most amazing forest.
      The Greens don’t want you eating meat either; that will be for the elite that can afford it. 
      How about the Greens propose an affordable inner city living solution prior to taxing the hell out of us all?  Not the Bronx either.

    • Robert Smissen Of rural SA says:

      11:43pm | 08/10/11

      The Arctic Ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from Consulafft, at Bergen , Norway .. Reports from fishermen, seal hunters, and explorers all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the Arctic zone. Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes. Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the gulf stream still very warm. Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared.

      Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast shoals of herring and smelts which have never before ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds. Within a few years it is predicted that due to the ice melt the sea will rise and make most coastal cities uninhabitable.

      I apologize, did I forget to mention that this report was from November 2, 1922, as reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post - 88 years ago.


      Does this mean the only true wilderness is between the ears of a Bob Brown ?


      It’s all just about a new tax isn’t it!!

    • alan says:

      09:25am | 09/10/11

      we need bob brown like the devil needs tomorrow.this man is single handing destroying australia,and most aussie,s KNOW it.
      i like trees,bushes,flowers,virgin land and all australian wild life,but BROWN likes more he want your money.
      a dictator in the real word sence of it it BROWN,the MOST dangerous man in australia polotic s today

    • James says:

      03:45pm | 10/10/11

      Ignorant people who shout slogans and don’t have any valid evidence for their assertions are a much much bigger problem for Australia than Bob Brown.

      I don’t recall the last time that an environmentalist caused a war, or an economic collapse or the destruction of a country but there are plenty of people who shouted ignorant slogans who have destroyed countries.

      Just show me that isn’t true.

    • Tim says:

      09:53am | 12/10/11

      hitler was quite the enviromentalist and a vegetarian and the nazis incorporated many environmental/ecological themes into their policies.

    • James says:

      10:35am | 12/10/11

      So you are saying Hitler’s overiding motivation in power was saving endangered species and protecting habitat?  That must explain why he bombed the f*** out of most of Europe. 

      I don’t recall any speach by Hitler on why vegetarianism is “the way to go”, I do recall speaches spouting a whole lot of propaganda, ingnorance and bullsh*t.

      You need to learn to sperate out side issues from the main event Tim.

 

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