So, apparently we Aussies are one of the most tolerant nations in the world when it comes to migrants and ethnic minorities. That’s according to the OECD’s latest Society At A Glance.

Well, that's just WEIRD! Pic: Dylan Coker width=

Pardon me, but it’s been hard to tell lately.

The barrage of bigotry that has passed for public discourse on multiculturalism, asylum seekers, Islam and pretty much any issue touching on brown-skinned newcomers has been exhausting and depressing.

It struck me, listening to one idiot prattle on about ``our way of life’‘, that the sorts of things being said now are the same things people were saying 40 years ago when my parents came to Australia.

That same idiot might say people like my parents are not the target. But they were, 40 years ago.

Anyone who makes such a distinction is deluding themselves. The same distrust, prejudice and ignorance fuelled anti-migrant sentiment then as it does now.

“Their customs are different. They’ll form enclaves with their funny language and culture. They’re taking our jobs, sponging taxpayer dollars. They don’t understand our ways, they won’t fit in. And what the hell are they eating?”

While my parents speak English easily today - dad peppers all his conversation with ocker slang, gleaned from a life on construction sites - they didn’t when they first landed.

My mum was 18 when she arrived with her parents and four siblings in the late ‘60s. They ate what was then somewhat exotic food, lived in the loudest house on the street, and, in those early unfamiliar years, struggled to adapt to their new language and environment.

So they were occasionally confronted with bigots, ignorance, racism as they tried to settle to a new life here.

My mother has since become a citizen. She has run her own business, raised conscientious children and feels more at home in her adopted country now than she does when she visits Italy. The irony is that, by denying new migrants and asylum seekers the dignity of a welcome, shrill fear-mongers help create the very society no-one wants: a divided nation of “us” and hated “them”.

Political leaders have made themselves part of the problem. Their role should be to snuff out simplistic and sensationalist debates, not milk them for political gain. Their job isn’t to pat people on the head and tell them it’s OK to be worried about boat people and burqas. It should be to lift the national tone, and erase ignorance with reason, honesty and humanity.

South Australian Lieutenant Governor Hieu Van Le - a Vietnamese refugee, who made the risky journey here by boat with his young family - put it brilliantly in February, when he told a crowd of migrants at the Governor’s Multicultural Awards: “Too often we are subjected to views based on ignorance and prejudice and the often unfounded fear that they generate.”

“One can only agree with the Governor’s observation that community leaders could take a much more assertive role in promoting and valuing well-informed discussions about social issues.”

The resurgent debate about the benefits of multiculturalism had me wondering - what will people be saying about today’s migrants and refugees in 40 years’ time? Probably nothing. Most of them will have done what my parents did: Get on with life, work, raise a family, make a home.

Today’s “threat” will be tomorrow’s benign citizen.

179 comments

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    • Erick says:

      05:51am | 17/05/11

      The only people who see a “barrage of bigotry” are those whose own political myopia forces everything they don’t understand into a stereotype. The narrow view that objections to illegal immigrants are based on xenophobia is based on ignorance and wilful refusal to listen to what people are actually saying.

      As for “threats” becoming model citizens - let’s note that of boat people granted visas, some 90% are on welfare years afterward. Hardly model citizens if you ask me - more like asylum shoppers looking for an easy mark.

      Finally, while most immigrant groups tend to assimilate over time, Islamic ones often do not. In fact, the second-generation, native born Muslims tend to be more radical than their parents. For example the London suicide bombers were mostly British born, well-educated and well-off.

      When articles like this display ignorance and bigotry from the very outset, reasonable readers will not take their message seriously.

    • Henry says:

      07:44am | 17/05/11

      Well, if you didn’t already know this, there is no such thing as a illegal immigrant in Australia, except for maybe the Brits and Americans flying over for a holiday and overstaying their welcome. These ‘boat people’ that are spoken so belligerently of, are fully legal. The same goes for refugees. They are just people forced to flee their own country for greener pastures. Pastures that arent splattered with blood. Pastures that they’re bit as risk of being killed in. More or less, they’re just after a better, safer life, and that’s all they want.
      Who are we to deny these people safety. Im sure that if you were in the same situation, you would want nothing less than that

    • Erick says:

      08:54am | 17/05/11

      Aaaaand just in time for this thread, we learn that Australia’s peak Muslim lobby group is pushing for the introduction of sharia law. No doubt the feminists will be delighted - and if they aren’t, they’re racist!

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      09:13am | 17/05/11

      Great link and comment Erick! 
      I love it when two groups of left-leaning, limp-wristed, namby-pamby, bleeding-heart do-gooders come up against each other. One of them MUST be wrong. Either we let them have Sharia, ‘cause we can’t interfere with their culture in our country, oh no, (thus annoying the feminazis) or else we say that women have the same rights in divorce as men in Australia and you lot can fuck off with your anachronistic bullshit (thus annoying the pro-Islamists). Which is it?

    • AliceC says:

      09:24am | 17/05/11

      @Erick

      Just read the link, and the first paragraph is as follows:

      “THE nation’s peak Muslim group is using the Gillard government’s re-embracing of multiculturalism to push for the introduction of sharia in Australia, but it says it would be a more moderate variety of Islamic law that fits with Australian values”

      If it fits with Australian values, then it will not contradict our current laws.

      “This is about personal issues about family, and won’t affect any other Australian,” he said.

      “It’s about a system that does not impinge on the rights of any other Australian.”

      So essentially, you will only be affected by this law if you choose so, the default will always be Australian law.

    • fml says:

      09:45am | 17/05/11

      Erick,,

      “When articles like this display ignorance and bigotry from the very outset, reasonable readers will not take their message seriously.”

      No it doesnt, its just your self-righteous indignation that you exhibit when you feel you are not being listened to.

      This faux outrage that is called reverse racism is a veil which allows you to act out your prejudices.

      As for the link you have provided, theyve asked for it, doesnt mean they are going to get it, your afraid of losing democracy in this fine country but you are infact the one which prohibits it from dancing.

    • Rissa says:

      10:01am | 17/05/11

      @ Erick - regarding special religious rules regarding family re. your Sharia law comment. Maybe you could care to have a read of Tony Abbott’s book, Battlelines. He explores the possibility of making ‘at fault’ divorce optional for couples who choose. When the alternative pm can discuss such a view and not raise a stir but an obscure interest group raises a significant stir one has to wonder whether it is because of the respective religions they represent. I personally find the above mentioned mutual divorce more acceptable than ‘at fault’ but no i won’t be signing up to either if we ever get the option

    • Budz says:

      10:02am | 17/05/11

      @Erick: How can you use the incident in London as proof? That’s like me saying that I know lots of Muslims (true) and they have all integrated very well into life in Sydney. They have friends from all different backgrounds and do the same things everyone I know does. Does that prove my point over yours? How many Muslims do you know?

    • Bernard says:

      10:04am | 17/05/11

      AliceC, I have my own code of laws where nothing is illegal. I want to be subject to this code of law only and not Australian law. It won’t impact on anyone else. My worship of the flying spaghetti monster demands it.

      If I don’t get my own code of law while Islam does, then its religious discrimination.

      As another matter of interest, see the effect sharia law has had on the UK. It leads to requests for more and more special concessions.

    • Erick says:

      10:09am | 17/05/11

      AliceC, if we look at other countries with large amounts of Muslim immigrants, we can see the same process at work. At first the requests are small and seem reasonable - then they gradually keep getting bigger and more insistent.

      As a feminist, you should be worried. Do some research on the rights of women under sharia law.

    • John says:

      10:30am | 17/05/11

      AliceC why must there be any form of Sharia Law in Australia. This country already has its laws so why these people is then allowed to live by separate laws. This experiment has failed in Europe already.

      I am not against refugees but I would prefer those sitting in refugee camps around the world then these economic refugees entering this country via boat. I find it interesting that in most these camps the refugees are Christians and usually have had all their possessions stolen. These refugees live in conditions even below that of a third world and are subjected to raids by militias on a constant basis. “Ah you say these camps are UN run” well unless the UN troops are fired upon they are not able to DO anything to protect these refugees. As one US Marine put it while o UN mission. The militia came in backed by got helicopters and killed all those in the camp. We were unable to do anything as our ROE only allowed us only to engage when fired upon. Recently in the Ivory Coast Christian refugees fleeing the fighting was mass murdered by the militia forces loyal to the new president. These ppl now live in refugee camps with the threat of killing over their head.

      The article points out how as bigots we have a go at the enclaves a group forms in Australia. I am sorry but this is the same thing that happens in India. I am wondering if the writer has travelled to India. If she did she would find the large population of Muslims live in enclaves in India. She rarely mixes with the actual Indian community and worse much support Pakistan then India. You will also find a large number of crimes are also committed by this group. While on India they have a form of Sharia Law but get this, it is then Brocken up into two groups. One for Shi’ite’s and one for Sunni’s.

      Funny how all these boat people are fleeing Afghan and say they are fleeing persecution yet some of the smallest minorities who face persecution such as not been able to practice their religion and the universal human right of education for their children is limited as when their children go to school they are bullied and told they must convert to Islam. Yet this group still continue to try to live and or in Afghanistan instead of fleeing like these young men coming here. http://britishsikhstudentfederation.com/index/?page_id=1730

      Ill includes other links here for people to view and make up their own minds and no it is not a minority.

      http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23386539-police-protect-girls-forced-to-convert-to-islam.do

      http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/south-asia/28334-sikh-advocate-brutally-beaten-forced-convert.html

      http://www.sikhhelpline.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=33&Itemid=36

      http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/01/muslim-attacks-on-sikhs-islamic-jihad.html

    • Adam says:

      10:31am | 17/05/11

      Sometimes we have to accept that groups of people’s ideals are incompatible with our own. Whether these ideals are part of their religion, race, etc is neither here nor there. What is important is that we refuse to allow such people into our society. Sometimes I think the bleeding hearts forget that saying “no” to someone usually takes more moral courage and intestinal fortitude than just saying “yes” to everyone.

    • Budz says:

      10:38am | 17/05/11

      Erick, I don’t see what the big deal is. Just say no to Sharia Law. Simple as that! I don’t see the problem with them ‘wanting’ something their way. Isn’t that the way things work in a democracy? I mean there is a fishing and shooting party that people can vote for! It doesn’t mean they should get everything their way.

    • Markus says:

      10:41am | 17/05/11

      “So essentially, you will only be affected by this law if you choose so, the default will always be Australian law.”
      That’s not how the law works. You can’t choose which laws do and do not apply to you.
      And in regards to the choice, is this the same choice afforded to the wives/young daughters completely covered from head to toe on a 40 degree day, while the husband and son get to wear shorts and a T shirt?

    • stevem says:

      10:52am | 17/05/11

      AliceC, have you ever heard of the term “thin end of the wedge?”

    • fml says:

      11:30am | 17/05/11

      Barry,

      How can you be so naive to believe that all muslims are like that, and how can you have so little faith in our judicial and democratic system to believe that anything like that has even the remotest possibility of occuring?

    • Dieter Moeckel says:

      12:08pm | 17/05/11

      Marcus, While your tenet that law is law and you can’t choose is right, you are wrong in the Australian context. Aboriginal law can be taken into account within Australians law. There is already a choice here.
      I had an argument with the NT Minister for Education about a clause in the new act where people could choose the education for their children hat they wanted, IE Aboriginal parent could opt to keep their kids at home - but when further discussed Greeks, Albanians, Krauts and other could not actually choose.
      But no I would not condone the introduction of sharia in any form where it contradicts Australian mainstream law.

    • KH says:

      01:01pm | 17/05/11

      On the rare occasion I agree with Erick (and it really is rare) it seems this time maybe I do….....

      Islam is totally incompatible with Australia.  I for one would prefer we have no islamic immigration at all, whether they fly in or show up in a boat.  Previous generations of immigrants (flying or sailing) have not had a religion that preaches hatred of anyone who isn’t in their religion, and even goes as far as saying they should ‘pretend’ to like us if it suits their purposes, and preaches forcing people to agree with them. 

      Now they want ‘sharia law’ introduced - no matter how ‘mild’ it is to start with, give them an inch and they will take a mile.  Thats how it starts.  This religion is a serious threat to all of us, and maybe its about time this was acknowledged.  Anyone who has been to Europe lately can see the obvious problems that islamic immigration is causing, and we should be learning from others’ mistakes.

    • Grumpy says:

      06:34pm | 17/05/11

      I dont believe you know any of this first hand Erick, its impossible to calculate. There are fundamentalist christians who are white and dont appear to be the crazy nuts that they are, yet they are probably the worst people, and would be typically the same people that this article is referring too..

      nationalism is an infantile disease.

      believe in your self, frig everything else, its just to confuse you into supplicating to someone elses idea of life.

    • Chris L says:

      06:50pm | 17/05/11

      Erick, that article stated that the idea of introducing Sharia Law was ruled out. I’m not even sure why you brought the subject up.

      As for our fear of newcomers, Maria is correct. Successive generations of immigrants have been reviled and subjected to hostile prejudice. The Greek and Italian immigration, the Vietnamese and the Japanese. Now we couldn’t imagine this country without them.

      I think we should have a look at our history and see where our hostility toward newcomers only exacerbates their difficulties in assimilating. Remember gangs of thugs patrolling the streets looking for “gooks” to beat up. The asian community found itself forced to band together to protect themselves and thus gave the old biddies fuel to point the finger at how they don’t fit in (as if they should have allowed thugs to beat them up without resistance). More recently we had the Cronulla riots and I don’t think either side can claim to be blameless over that. Both sides need to work toward the goal of living together and it is hypocrisy to point the finger soley at the immigrants if we’re not giving them a fair go.

      I’m glad that the idea of Sharia Law has been rejected as I feel our current law is part of the country these folk have adopted, but I also think our manners as hosts are sadly lacking. The refugees are not illegal (the treaty specifically states their arrival cannot be considered illegal) they are looking for a better life and we can easily afford to make them welcome.

    • The Vivid Writer says:

      10:15am | 18/05/11

      @ Erick,

      “Finally, while most immigrant groups tend to assimilate over time, Islamic ones often do not. In fact, the second-generation, native born Muslims tend to be more radical than their parents. For example the London suicide bombers were mostly British born, well-educated and well-off.”
      —Probably because even though they’re British, all they really got from their fellow citizens was a wave of rejectionism even if some of these fellows never really gave a shit about Islam and were simply - Brits. It is biggots such as yourself that create scumbags like that..biggots like you turn these men into scum. In fact, biggots like you are THE recruitment tool for such scumbag groups.

      Erick, your view of your fellow mankind..including WOMEN..makes me wonder why you don’t do everyone the favour and ‘take that trip’ to Switzerland. wink

      http://thevividwriter.wordpress.com/

    • Charlie Pickering says:

      01:59pm | 09/06/11

      Curious how this “Erick “has been the first to post on about 4 different forums today all of which are loosely related to this one is he an employee of news ltd or is he a xenophobic loser who really needs to get out more

    • Clive Churchill says:

      02:09pm | 09/06/11

      Erick is a very frightened ,ill-informed, narrow minded puppy

    • John C says:

      06:37am | 17/05/11

      I agree with what you say, I too being the child of a migrant. There are two things however that we should not forget. First many of the migrants, particularly today, against whom bigotry is aimed, are themselves bigoted and hold skippies, to use a current term, in the same contempt that some Australians, including the children of migrants, hold them. Bigotry can run both ways. Secondly, Australia has absorbed millions of migrants and, while changing them, have changed themselves. Again, change needs to run both ways.

    • dale says:

      07:12am | 17/05/11

      Just have a look in Melbourne at the failed Sudanese experiment. They mutilate there young girls and violently bash others. Instead of fleeing there countries why don’t all of the asylum seekers take a leaf out of the Egyptian book and change there country to be what they want?

      It took thousands of years and a time called the dark ages for Europeans to try and stop clan fighting, it still happens but you can not expect to take people out of a village where rape and beheadings are the norm and try to integrate them into another society.

    • Budz says:

      09:46am | 17/05/11

      Oh Dale, picking out one small issue, which has also been massively blown out of proportion by the media. Just because you don’t hear about all the other immigrants doing well out there doesn’t mean it isn’t happening. Did anyone watch the story on 60 minutes about the ‘Tiger Parents’ and how kids from an Asian background are out performing everyone else in the eductation system?

    • fml says:

      09:48am | 17/05/11

      If rape and beheadings were the norm, there wouldnt be any people left.

      You say it takes time to change, but are not willing to give people a chance, not even to change (because they wouldnt even be let in after the psych test), but not even willing to let people show their character. This is exactly what the author is talking about.

    • Brenda says:

      07:41am | 17/05/11

      The current concerns about multi-culturalism have nothing to do with “brown skin” colour. What uninformed nonsense.
      When your parents arrived, as did ours, they brought similar religious beliefs, strong work ethics, similar family values and marital attitudes, their kids weren’t indoctrinated against our sporting culture and ladies were not chattels as we are witnessing in the latest groups that think Australia is a soft touch. Most had a reasonable grasp of the language too.
      Newcomers in our parents’  time asked for nothing and received no taxpayer funded benefits. They worked damned hard, won the respect of our neighbours, never complained and over time became English language proficient.  Since then Australia has become the economically supportive destination of choice, costing people just like your family far too much in more ways than baby bonuses and years on taxpayer largesse.
      If you have not noticed what has gone so very wrong with the costly multi-cultural experiment in the United Kingdom and how host country apathy has wrecked their social cohesion, caused serious divisions and imported hatreds, danger and discontent, then what you are writing is nonsense and an insult to MY immigrant parents.
      Mine are damned sure they detest the influx of welfare-minded newcomers clearly observed lazing around local parks and gardens during working hours, kicked back enjoying the playful activities of sometimes 6 infant under-school age children, chain-smoking taxpayer funded cigarettes and jumping the public housing waiting list queue. 
      “Community leaders” - does that mean various cultural communities follow their own “leaders” who guide their flock as separate cultural and religious entities from the Australian community that often supports them for years?  It’s natural that newcomers need each other for support and conversation, but the very nature of multi-culturalism is a divisive failure
      You are talking apples and oranges in comparing pre and post-1970’s immigration.
      The above is a simplistic and sensationalist opinion piece. Generally, Australians can be heard despairing, “We’ve had a gutful of sanctimonious politically motivated social experimentation, we’ve had a gutful of degraded social disharmony with suburbs morphing into no-go zones for host culture citizenry, and we’re not taking it any more.”

    • Erick says:

      08:07am | 17/05/11

      Hear, hear, Brenda!

      I am continually amazed by the sheer ignorance of boat people advocates. Not once have I seen any indication that they are aware of what actually motivates the majority of Australians. This inability to understand people means their arguments fall on blind ears and fail to persuade.

    • Jarred says:

      08:23am | 17/05/11

      evidence? statistics ? point to a report or research that backs up your argument or shut you bigoted racist mouth

    • Anne_N says:

      08:53am | 17/05/11

      My father-in-law fled Hungary when the communist regime took over, spent 2 years in a european refugee camp, applied for asylum in the U.S. and Australia and was finally accepted here as a political refugee.

      When he arrived, he spent a couple of months in an immigrant camp before cycling out and getting a job and his own roof over his head despite limited english skills.  He got tired of waiting for the authorities to do something.  He was given a bill from the government for his transport/accommodation while in the camp which he was still repaying when he married my mother-in-law.

      My husband didn’t speak a word of english until he started school, they still eat ‘strange food’ (love hungarian cakes)...

      And he is absolutely APPALLED at the soft treatment of the latest batch of asylum seekers.  Why are they treated like a protected species?  Why aren’t they required to contribute to the society that previous refugees have, because isn’t that the way they assimilated?

    • Advocates want Links; Aussie's want Change says:

      09:47am | 17/05/11

      Jarrod could please supply a link and/or statistics as to why you think Brenda’s mouth is bigoted and racist?

    • fml says:

      09:52am | 17/05/11

      Brenda,

      How many immigrants do you know?

      “Mine are damned sure they detest the influx of welfare-minded newcomers clearly observed lazing around local parks and gardens during working hours,”

      So you what they are not allowed a day off work? you follow them around each day with a notepad writing down all the little day to day things they do?

      Only a twisted mind can turn a day in the park with the kids into an evil activity and bludge on society, with that kind of attitude how are they expected to fit in, they do the same things you do and you hate them for it.

    • Budz says:

      10:00am | 17/05/11

      @Anne_N: Do you know how stupid that story sounds from your Dad? It reminds me of this type of coversation:

      Baby boomer: Back when I was young….......These Gen Y kids these days have it so easy. No war, no unemployment and everything gets given to them.
      I had to walk miles to get to school bare footed and at 5am in freezing conditions. etc. etc.
      You get my drift? Everyone always thing they had it harder when they were younger.

    • Bilby says:

      11:08am | 17/05/11

      I think I’ll jump on this thread, as that’s pretty much my history too. When my dad fled Nazi Germany he arrived as an 18 year old with no family, no money, no English. Racism was of course rife (we were actually at war with Germany, and figuring out that he was a victim was apparently too hard for a lot of people), but funnily enough not in the Australian Army where he served for some years. The expectation was that he would do his very best to contribute to this country that had given him a home where he could be safe and secure, and that obligation didn’t leave him his entire life. There was no sense of entitlement, no sense of gimme gimme gimme. Now people wouldn’t think of me as anything other than an aussie with a big nose. That’s assimilation at its best.

    • Tom says:

      11:16am | 17/05/11

      @Budz, it is obvious you are a refugee advocate. How about declaring what interest you have in the continuation of refugees. Is it money? Do you counsel refugees as a job paid at taxpayer’s expense? Are you an interpreter? Is it mates? Is it politically oriented? More votes for your pals? Or are you an inner city socialist?

      For once Budz, don’t take a moralising position. What’s in it for you?

    • Adam says:

      11:35am | 17/05/11

      Well said Brenda, Anne and Bilby. I agree with your sentiments 100%. I often wonder how Australia could attract a better class of refugees, such as those we once attracted in decades past (noting Australia can afford to be selective given Australia has hundreds of thousands of refugee applicants and could never accept all of them). The overriding answer seems to be if we cut all the welfare handouts to refugees and made it clear those who wanted to live here had to be contributing members of Australian society that were required to get a full time job and learn the native language within a five year period. By and large, the refugees (both old and new) that have done this are the success stories and types of people we should aim to attract.

    • Elsa says:

      01:57pm | 17/05/11

      Budz you arrogant pig, my Slovak father went through a similar thing to Anne’s. Sat in refugee camps for years after WWII. Went through all sorts of tests and scrutiny. Got put on a ship for Australia and spent the first 2 years here working hard labour indentured to the government. It’s not a friggin urban legend. There were no handouts for him. No help. He was on an ‘alien’ list for years as well, having to report to the authorities. He carved out a life for himself.

      Sadly he died young at 47. He’d be rolling in his grave if he could see what’s happening.

      And you know what? He copped racism too. Wog. My mother even got abused for marrying a wog. We got teased because we had a wog surname even though I’m as blonde and blue eyed as your stereotypical Aussie kid. But you know what, he, and us got over it.  And for the record he was a bloody bigot too! He hated Albanians, Romanians and Germans! It was how it was.

      So why don’t you go hug a tree ... or a refugee.

    • Budz says:

      02:09pm | 17/05/11

      @Tom: Haha, I find that rather interesting that you think I am all of those things because I believe Australia should help refugees that are in dire need of help? I believe in helping those in need and as such I give to charities that also help these people, mainly overseas. And why do I do that? Because I empathise with them and understand how difficult it must be for them, and I want to make a difference.
      So answering your questions: Money? No. Not a counsellor (actually in financial services, and not related to refugees at all!). Interpreter? As I said before, no. And not mates. Politicial? Well I’m more right wing as a whole if anything, not this area though. So no votes for my pals, and inner city, but defo not a socialist.
      So what’s your go Tom? Why is it that you don’t want to help those in dire need? You can’t relate to them? You just don’t care as they don’t come near you?

    • Budz says:

      02:16pm | 17/05/11

      Ahhh Elsa, another touching story. Has anyone considered that these refugees aren’t working not because they don’t want to, but because no one wants to employ them? Of course I don’t think they should be dole bludgers and intentionally not working. But isn’t Centrelink meant to take away the dole from people that aren’t looking for work? If these people had skills that made them easily employable etc. I’d assume they wouldn’t have to come here are refugees and could come here as normal migrants.

    • Bilby says:

      02:24pm | 17/05/11

      Budz - Your intentions are entirely honourable, but you’ve got a small error in your last statement.

      You don’t *understand* how difficult it must be, you *imagine* how difficult it must be. While empathy is a good and noble thing, we need to at times be sure that it’s our head that’s speaking and not our hearts. I too wish we could let everyone in, but we can’t. My old man’s friends were spread all over the globe for that simple reason.

    • Budz says:

      02:40pm | 17/05/11

      Bilby, that’s why we have restrictions on the number of people we take in as refugees. I don’t see why people are so harsh towards boat people that looking for asylum. I mean a majority of people that apply for assylum in Australia don’t come by boat. In fact it’s a very small percentage. Most people fly here before they apply. And this idea that they have truck loads of money to pay people smugglers. So they pay 10 or 20k to get here. They would have sold their home and all their posessions. Now that hardly makes them well off.
      And why do they want to come here? Just ask yourself, what would you do? If you were in one of those places would you do everything possible to get your family to a country as great as ours? I know I would!

    • Bilby says:

      02:55pm | 17/05/11

      Budz - I believe people are so harsh because of the entitled attitudes of *some* of the people coming in by boat. Someone that starts their life in Australia by demanding this and insisting on that is not the sort of citizen we want. We are a very generous country with a great climate and a good and kind population. I think treating the country like a meal ticket is obnoxious, no matter what circumstances drove them out of their homes in the first place. I wrote of my dad’s sense of obligation. It doesn’t stop with him. I too have that same obligation. I object to those that come here and don’t feel that way. Is that wrong?

    • Tom says:

      03:07pm | 17/05/11

      @Budz, you asked the reasons for my positition. I
      Lived in South West Sydney,
      Worked in Liverpool,
      Regularly visited Lakemba and Punchbowl, Campbelltown.
      Friends’ children were bashed by middle Eastern gangs while minding their own business.
      Lived next-door.
      Saw the advocate industry first hand for its corruption.
      Saw multi-culturalism failing at all levels.
      Had children riding on the London Tube behind the one that was blown up.
      Have heard the “victim rapping” and excuses and the denial from types like yourself.

      I have had first hand exposure and witnessed the social dislocation.
      Your exposures, Budz? Are you close enough to spout anything other than hot air?

      I help people “help those in dire need” with my own time and my own money. Do you help “help those in dire need” with your own money? Or does the prospect of spending taxpayers money give you your warm sanctimonious wets?

    • Budz says:

      03:25pm | 17/05/11

      Bilby, I coulnd’t agree with you more. But the gripe I have is the generalisation that people make based on what they hear in the media. And the fact is that it’s ‘some’ of the people. If they are dole bludgers or doing illegal activity, by all means, send them to jail! Treat them like you would anyone else. If it is so easy to ‘milk’ the system then why on earth doesn’t the government make it harder.
      I reckon the dole shouldn’t be easy at all to get. The same with the disability support pension, unless it’s blantantly obvious the person is obviously disabled. Not just for a ‘dodgy’ back that allows them to do cash in hand work on the side (I have heard all the stories).

      But my point is that I think anger should be directed at Centrelink to catch these people, as it’s wrong to tarnish the the whole community based on a few bad apples.

    • Adam says:

      03:48pm | 17/05/11

      @ Tom - I agree. People should fund their own ideals. If they want to bring refugees here they should pay for their house, food, welfare, healthcare, processing costs, etc, out of their own pocket. No other Australian should be expected to fund others ideals via tax or any other method.

      @ Budz - The hostility toward boat arrivals comes the fact they that 99% of them come from Indonesia. This means they have already escaped whatever persecution they were undergoing in their own country and have taken a very expensive boat road for one of the following reasons:

      A) So they can destroy identity documents that would be required for a plane flight (see http://www.sharmanstone.com/Immigration/tabid/91/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/163/Dr-Sharman-Stone-on-ABC-Bendigo-re-People-smuggler-debate.aspx). This allows them to slip through the immigration system as a refugee, despite not being a genuine refugee, because we cannot prove their country of origin, how long they have stayed in other countries along the way (up to years sometimes) or if they have transited through multiple safe countries to get to Australia.

      B) To jump the queue and force themselves on Australia, rather than waiting in the queue and letting Australia choose the most appropriate refugees for our society.

      C) Because they are blatant country shoppers that could have safely stayed in Indonesia or Malaysia but were attracted here by easy welfare provisions.

      Hopefully now you can see why Australians are hostile towards boat arrivals (as opposed to genuine refugees that wait their turn and do the right thing).

    • Grumpy says:

      06:39pm | 17/05/11

      I was born here and i think sporting culture is pretty pathetic. Its the biggest thing in some peoples lives, and as soon as people start talking about it in their occa ways my eyes glaze over and im thinking what a friggen dumbc**t….anyway…

      My mothers family moved here from Sri Lanka, born to british immigrants to Ceylon, and i can guarantee everyone one of them has contributed to this country more than you will in your life. As im sure most people will. Youre a whinger, It doesnt help anyone.

    • Likes Joining Dots says:

      08:31pm | 17/05/11

      @Budz

      The contradictions in your posts jar so hard my teeth hurt.

      You seem selective in choosing your refugees hardships, whether it’s based on the media you consume, I can’t tell.

      So far you have commented on direct, first hand posts from children of Slovak and Hungarian immigrants, yet you dismiss them as ‘stupid’ or ‘another touching story’, then add that their problems were all down to the elderly exaggerating their circumstances by adding ‘everyone always had it harder when they were younger.’ I don’t understand your point, are you saying they were not refugees?

      Empathy for refugees is a fine thing to state, but I cannot see how you manage to somehow make the distinction between ‘stupid and touching’ stories of previous refugees to the refugees of today.

    • Wilma De Havilland says:

      02:26pm | 09/06/11

      Erick
      Now you are over here touting your anti-boat people sentiments I believe you were bleating on about this in another forum did everyone tell you to piss off or something because now you are over here doing it.

      Turn the record over mate and see if it has a different tune on it

    • Ross says:

      07:49am | 17/05/11

      Australians are not against migrants. They are not even against boat people. What they are against are people rioting, burning sewing their mouth closed and any other form of trying to pressure the country into accepting them. If there was no reports of violence, rape and drug use in the processing centres there would be no ‘bigotry’ aimed at this situation.

      disclaimer: I am not saying that the processing is done right but that is the system we have and we all need to understand that and work with it not against it.

    • grumpy says:

      06:41pm | 17/05/11

      If thats what you think of when you see poor people on rickety boats, then its your reality that is messed up mate. No person on this earth is that much different from you, no matter where they are from they want the same things, its attitudes like yours and social conditioning that makes bad people, so in essence you are to blame, not them.

    • iansand says:

      08:04am | 17/05/11

      So far, fear and ignorance 4 is beating sanity 1.

    • Erick says:

      08:33am | 17/05/11

      Thank you for the that situation report from inside your head, iansand.

    • fml says:

      09:54am | 17/05/11

      He’s not wrong though Erick.

      Better than the constant Jihad thats occuring within your head.

    • JohnB says:

      11:02am | 17/05/11

      We are new at this iansand. How about asking the UK, Fiji, France, USA and Denmark. You’ll get a very sane answer from them.

    • Dieter Moeckel says:

      12:26pm | 17/05/11

      I don’t think Australians actually ‘fear,’ Xenophobia and ignorance yes.
      Don’t forget that we Australians live in the South Pacific without neighbours in a slightly Europeanised WASP cultural environment. That until very recently maintained a White Australia policy and anti semitic immigration policy ... leading to unenlightened, clueless ignorance.
      40 years ago my cousin in Germany did practice teaching in Scotland ... he could have chosen Russia. As a student teacher I didn’t even get to do practice outside Sydney.

    • Everyone feels like I do. says:

      07:12pm | 17/05/11

      JohnnyB

      Can you post a phone number for the UK, Fiji, France, USA and Denmark?

      Much appreciated.

    • Ashamed says:

      02:20pm | 09/06/11

      My god what has happened to a once proud and upstanding nation who believed in a ‘fair go"for all and helping out those in need and a vision for a better future.
      No thats been totally hjacked by a new wave of bigotry,  ignorance and anti-intellectualism what a great shame

    • Matt says:

      08:10am | 17/05/11

      Let’s call BS on all the comments from people such as Erick who dog whistle away “we’re not against immigrants, just the ones who won’t ‘assimilate’.”

      Let’s describe them as they really are - racist.

      Small minded, petty, selfish, and racist.

      And about 180 degrees from the “Christian” values you pretend to espouse while railing against blacks and Muslims.

      If Jesus was around today, he’d throw you lot out of the temple for the ignoran bigots you are.

      But that’s right - Jesus wouldn’t get in to Australia under the nasty little immigration policy you so desperately crave. Because there’s no way you’d let an itinerant, unemployed Carpenter of Middle Eastern descent into your White Australia. Especially one who preaches such radical views against the ruling class.

    • Erick says:

      08:28am | 17/05/11

      See Matt - you’ve just proved my point above. I’ve never espoused Christian values, because I’m not a Christian. You just assumed I was, because that stereotype fits your prejudices.

      You boat-people advocates simply don’t understand most Australians, and that’s why your message doesn’t get through. You’re talking to people who exist only in your imagination.

    • Geoff - Brisbane says:

      08:46am | 17/05/11

      Matt is an example of a hypocrite.

      Calling out people for “being racist” then going on a racist rant about evil Christians.

    • fml says:

      09:59am | 17/05/11

      Geoff,

      Matt wasnt racist at all, he never said christians were evil, he said Erick was Evil and doesnt adhere to christian attitudes. I am supposed to take lessons in what racism is from the “Majority” of australians, like you and Erick who do not even know the meaning of the word?

      Erick, who was Matt being prejudiced against? what did he say about christianity? he said you dont typify Christianities good values. you seem to read what you want nowadays.

      Matt, Well done, ive said that before, if Jesus the swarthy palestinian who came to australia on a boat he wouldn’t get let in. Hear, hear.

    • Matt says:

      10:36am | 17/05/11

      Erick, if only bigots like you did exist in our imagination.

      And I didn’t “assume” you were a Christian. I highly doubt it, given the frankly evil nature of your views. Yes, evil. Take a good hard look into your dark, petty little heart.

      And if we want to start talking about “most Australians”, well, “most” of them didn’t vote for Tony Abbott and his vile policies. That’s twice the Coalition has been rejected in two elections where they ran hard on boat people. Maybe we’re growing up as a nation (although Gillard is doing her best to hand power back to the maddies…)

      And Geoff, perhaps it’s a good idea to have a read of people’s comments before posting claims about them? I know it must hurt to move your lips, but give it a try.

    • Tom says:

      12:08pm | 17/05/11

      Matt, you are an Australian hating bigot. You believe Australians are “ignorant” (PS, learn to spell ignorant before you throw it around). You believe Australians are “bigots”, “small minded”, “petty”,“selfish” and “racist”.

      Why don’t you take your smug, undergraduate rants somewhere else. Your drivel is as cliched as it is tedious.

    • Tim the Toolman says:

      12:11pm | 17/05/11

      Please explain to me how you see the future.  I’m genuinely interested.  You’re clearly against any assimilation, which is what has made the previous generations of immigrants so successful here. 

      What possible benefits do we derive from encouraging a lack of social cohesion, other than the requirement to obey the law (which has been altered in other countries too).

      I’m not saying anyone is inherently worse, or better, or evil, or lazy or whatever (regardless of my personal views, which are just that)...I’m just questioning the wisdom of not working towards social cohesion, and instead encouraging the ongoing continuation of identifying not as Australian, but as <insert country here>.  How does that benefit our society as a whole?  Won’t we just end up with dozens of little fiefdoms all paying lip service to our laws and society and otherwise setting up new nations within Australian borders?

    • Michael says:

      12:26pm | 17/05/11

      Matt you dipshit, you have completely missed Erick’s point and have no clue about Jesus. If Jesus were around today he would actually invite the bigots into the church so that his spirit may guide them to tolerance and love, MORON you have no clue of Christian values smile

      Nor any idea of what many people are saying, they may use words or expression you can write off as “racist” or “bigotted” but people are expressing concern or fear that once Australia has changed like other countries whose example we follow we will not be able to change it back to what was preferred.

      Part of our freedom in this country is the freedom to express concern over the way our country is changing and who is benefitting from that change.

      This gives rise to the concern that why don’t these people stay at home and change their countries? instead of coming here and changing ours into what they left behind. If Australians wanted sharia law we could all move to Syria or Iran…see how that works?

    • Chocolate City says:

      12:31pm | 17/05/11

      @ Matt, what’s your definition of a racist?

    • TracyH says:

      01:19pm | 17/05/11

      Matt…you are losing hands down. Your emotions spew out like a torrent of of liquid spite. You make no sense. I don’t agree with everything Erick says, or any one else for that matter, but he must seriously love it when emotional ranters respond to his posts and paradoxically add weight to his words. For the record, if an unemployed middle eastern carpenter moved in next door that’d be no problem. I would probably be a bit concerned if he claimed to be the son of an imaginary god, but even then, as long as he didn’t expect me to believe it, no problem. No-one, Matt, including you, responded to the quandary of Sharia law and its compatibility with equal rights for women. Except the commenter who said it will only affect “them”...um. does that mean Muslim women aren’t one of “us”? Stop the BS, resist the waterboardingesque repetition of using ‘racist bigots’in your vocabulary in place of sound debate, and try something completely alien, such as practicing the art of THOUGHT.

    • grumpy says:

      06:57pm | 17/05/11

      Ahhh Matt, thanks for speaking the TRUTH my brother!

      create the world you wanna live in through yourself, stop blaming others because youre shit at everything.

    • Matt says:

      08:43pm | 17/05/11

      Why people think it is racist for people wanting immigrants to assimilate into our culture, I’ll never understand. Erick put forward a completely reasonable argument, and yet you vilify him accusing him of dog whistling and bigotry? You stay classy, other Matt.

    • Roger Bannister says:

      02:39pm | 09/06/11

      Matt
      Good on you mate another point for sanity
      Ignore this thing called an Erick he is not representative of true fair dinkum Australia he is representative of racist bigoted and above all ignorant Australia
      He has been ranting on just about every forum here today all with the same BORING message

      Pretty soon he’ll be having a racist rant over at the forum thats currently discussing little suri cruise’s shoe collection (kid has a $150,000 worth of shoes can you believe that she’ll be having tea parties with Imelda Marcos soon)

    • Joan says:

      08:21am | 17/05/11

      They do form enclaves and they do have satellite dishes to maintain their culture and connection to their homecountry on a daily basis.. The suburb where I grew up has been `taken over` and main street shopping centre signage the only English words are street names and product advertisments. You wouldn’t know you were in Australia. And just today in todays Australian there is report that nation`s peak Muslim group is using Gillard`s government mulitculturalism to push for the introduction sharia in Australia. Forty years down the track culturally there will be no trace of Australia as it is today .

    • fml says:

      10:02am | 17/05/11

      twenty years ago it was the commies, now its the muslims, would the aliens please hurry up and get here so we can all have a common hatred against someone who isnt human.

      geeez. they have satellite dishes to watch shows from their homeland! quick call ASIO! They are being so un-australian.

      Australia 40 years ago was different to Australia today, so its fair to say Australia in 40 years will be different too. I bet you were a different person 40 years ago.

    • Markus says:

      10:49am | 17/05/11

      Twenty years ago it was people fleeing the commies.
      I don’t recall a lot of political refugees from communist countries trying to spread the tyranny they had just spent years trying to escape from.

    • TheRealDave says:

      11:02am | 17/05/11

      50 years ago it was Commies and ‘Reffo’s. 30 years ago it was ‘Asians’. Nowadays its ‘Muslims’.

      Certain right side of politics governments profit through fear.

      Jut keep your fridge magnets handy and you’ll be OK.

    • fml says:

      11:33am | 17/05/11

      Markus,

      How about the Vietnamese?

    • fml says:

      11:37am | 17/05/11

      Markus,

      Just to clarify im not saying that the vietnamese refugees are trying to spread tyranny, they of course did not, nor have any of the refugees that are here today. My point was We did have refugees from communist countries and they were hated by the Australian people at the time.

      My point is, the west will always find a scape goat and the people always will find some one to hate.

      It was Herman Georing that said the following, and its exactly what our government is doing today, and youve fell for it.

      ““Naturally the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.””

    • Markus says:

      12:05pm | 17/05/11

      Godwin’s Law and the irrelevance of your quote aside (no-one is advocating war), what you stated was the exact opposite of what the current government were trying to do with refugees, before they capitulated to what the majority demanded. And even failed at that.

      The Vietnamese fall into the category I already described. They did not arrive here under the guise of persecution, only to continue to practice and spread the ideals of the very monster they had just escaped.

    • fml says:

      12:28pm | 17/05/11

      Godwins law blah blah blah, so we are not allowed to quote fascists anymore. It just so happens it was said by a nazi, it could of been said by anyone but the premise is true.

      The quote is apt, it has nothing to do with war, its the political games our politicians are playing with refugees as the pawns, and you fell for it hook, line and sinker. It highlights the tricks the government uses to get people like you to believe there is a threat when there isnt one to forward their political careers.

      “The Vietnamese fall into the category I already described. They did not arrive here under the guise of persecution, only to continue to practice and spread the ideals of the very monster they had just escaped.”

      And what are the muslims doing? watching arabic tv shows, eating kebabs and going to the mosque? those evil bastards.

    • Markus says:

      02:09pm | 17/05/11

      The quote is instruction on how convince the populous that don’t want to go to war that they should want to go to war. What part of that isn’t about war?

      “And what are the muslims doing?”
      Continuing to practice and spread a religion - even the parts that are in direct contradiction to our existing code of laws - that had them so oppressed in their own country that they had to flee here.

    • fml says:

      02:29pm | 17/05/11

      Markus,

      Its easy to dismiss an idea when your world is black and white. Ok the first line says war, but if you look, you can see the section which says.

      ” All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.” Can be applied to the topic at hand.

      “Continuing to practice and spread a religion - even the parts that are in direct contradiction to our existing code of laws - that had them so oppressed in their own country that they had to flee here.”

      This is exactly what i am talking about, if they break the law they go to jail. You make it out like they are flagrantly breaking australian law and getting away with it. Name one instance they have broken the law and got away with it?

    • Markus says:

      03:15pm | 17/05/11

      Cultural Relativism. Our judicial system takes it into account regularly when deciding punishments.

      Dieter has already provided examples where Indigenous law is allowed to take precedent over Australian law, and Erick has provided a link to AFIC requesting the same consideration to be granted to Islam in this country.

    • JohnB says:

      08:27am | 17/05/11

      What an absolute lot of rubbish. We’ve NEVER been asked. There was an anti Muslim immigration petition with more than 10000 signatures presented to parliament. It was not dealt with because the politicians decided we are a tolerant society, therefore there was nothing to debate. What? How is that democracy? .

      I couldn’t care either way as long as people coming are good people, but we have NEVER been asked. Don’t reply, yes we have at elections, because that lady was crucified by the bigger party machines.

    • AliceC says:

      09:31am | 17/05/11

      Never been asked what? Who is allowed to immigrate? Who can we ban from immigrating? If you want to be involved in the legislative process, become an MP. Otherwise, it’s up to the people elected to make the decisions and pass the bills.

    • JohnB says:

      09:46am | 17/05/11

      “Otherwise, it’s up to the people elected to make the decisions and pass the bills”

      They do not represent us or seek our opinion. They are merely the least worse candidate in our apathetic society.

      “become an MP” We both know AliceC there are not too many people that could do their job. You need an extremely thick skin, a lack of integrity….You need your own platform to make it worth your effort to become an MP and that is Australia’s problem!

      “Who is allowed to immigrate? Who can we ban from immigrating?” Bloody oath we should be determining this….......Doesn’t society decide who can become a pilot, who goes to Jail, who leads the kids football team? It is reckless in the extreme to let anyone into Australia.

    • fml says:

      10:05am | 17/05/11

      oooooh 10,000 people signed a piece of paper,

      “What? How is that democracy? .” a democracy isnt giving into the demands of a minority. What about the other 22 Million people?

      “I couldn’t care either way as long as people coming are good people, but we have NEVER been asked. ”

      A wise man once told me never believe anything you hear before the word, but. Still i have no idea what you are saying, you are saying they are ok to come in then in the next sentence your crying about not being asked if you wanted them kicked out?

    • JohnB says:

      10:29am | 17/05/11

      I’ll spell it out fml.

      We as a country are not consulted by our representatives who we want here. Presently polls have shown the majority has hijacked politics including immigration.

      “oooooh 10,000 people signed a piece of paper”...You know full well this reflects the majority of Australians’ view. If in doubt, poll the 22 million you refer to…Not going to happen, because it doesn’t fit the agenda…That is my point.

    • fml says:

      11:02am | 17/05/11

      OK John so if 10,000 muslims sign a petition saying they want sharia law we should spend millions on holding a referendum???

      You dismiss the cheapest and best option of polling this at an election.

      “Presently polls have shown the majority has hijacked politics including immigration.” Polls are not an indication of what the majority want, they are the representation of a small sub-group of the population.

      “poll the 22 million you refer to…Not going to happen, because it doesn’t fit the agenda…That is my point.” Its not going to happen because the government know it is not what the majority want.

      “We as a country are not consulted by our representatives who we want here.” No the government should have to consult every single person everytime some extremists make demands and claim the entire country back them. There are political groups who do outline this in their policies but they are not elected, thats with EVERYBODY voting, not just a vocal minority and is a greater example of what the people in this country want.

    • JohnB says:

      11:16am | 17/05/11

      Come on fml. Get serious. Do you really think people want to vote at an election with ONE issue in mind. Of course not. They have families, jobs, school, etc to consider.  At the last election we had two distinct options. Labor’s position, continuing high immigration and Liberal’s position, continuing high immigration.

      I maintain Australians don’t want much more immigration at all (i.e. from anywhere). But (there it is the but) other aspects in their lives take precedence.

      So the fairest way is for the government to ask us what we want. Given the increasingly heated debate in society regarding this (and hopefully we’re smart enough to learn from overseas), what could be more solid and fair? You cannot possible argue this.

      At least with the carbon tax, the government can claim (incorrectly) it’s in the interest of the nation and therefore the politicians will decide.

    • fml says:

      11:46am | 17/05/11

      John,

      What i fear is that the minority like you out shout the sane majority. People like you spread fear and lies that multicultralism isnt working in places like europe when your just listening to the vocal minority and then claiming it to be true.

      Why dont you just say how you truly feel and say that you dont like foreigners and dont want them in your country.

      If the only way for you to realise that you are in the minority is to have a referendum, then hey, i will be up for that, will you then change your tune and stop whinging and spreading fear and hate?

    • JohnB says:

      12:11pm | 17/05/11

      Hmmm. Fair call fml. If you’ve read posts of mine in other Punch’s you’d see I’m actually anti population both here and OS. I’m actually a little more than tanned myself and have exp lots of racism throughout my life. I can see however there is a problem with certain immigrants being an asset to Australia and do think we should have a say in that…Without getting in to and changing the topic, my undying message I want to get out there is far more about food supply, peak oil, water supply and the environment, and I assure you I’m in the minority with these issues. I’ll jump on anything that looks like it can garner momentum for my anti population crusade…..Having said all that I am also very aware more could be done with who we bring to Australia. Racist no, realist yes.

    • fml says:

      12:42pm | 17/05/11

      John

      Fair enough, if you wish to make to crusade a sustainable australia, that is fair enough, If you make non-discriminatory hypotheses about how this may occur, thats fair enough.

      To use that as an excuse for an anti-muslim crusade, then no, you are just using it to hide your prejudice. You call yourself a realist and saying your campaigning for a sustainable australia then highlight the 7 thousand or so refugees entering the country. That is not realistic and does nothing to further your push for a sustainable australia.

      If that was what you really wanted, then you would stop ALL immigration, not call for the stop of just one group.

      “Having said all that I am also very aware more could be done with who we bring to Australia. Racist no, realist yes.” Lets be realistic, your talking about muslims here, If you use minute number of muslims who enter Australia as the basis for your argument for a sustainable future instead of the 150 thousand migrants which enter each year, then people are going to think that you have an ulterior motive, if you were realistic then surely you must see the folly in claiming stopping a couple thousand muslims from entering australia as a better solution to the 150 thousand migrants.

      “I can see however there is a problem with certain immigrants being an asset to Australia and do think we should have a say in that” I still think your hiding what you really think, what about “certain” australians that are not an asset to australia? We do have a say in it, the government does checks before anyone is allowed to migrate, but thats not enough for you, you just want “certain immigrants” to cease immigration all together, and in that thought you are in the minority.

    • JohnB says:

      02:05pm | 17/05/11

      Okay fml, there are plenty of Muslims that are assets to Australia. There are also plenty of immigrants, Muslim or not, that are an infinite burden to Australia. Why would we want them? What’s in it for us? These are the people that we should say an emphatic no to. There are a zabizzlion people that want to come here. Why would we take anything but the cream ? AND, before you say fml, we have some kind of ridiculous obligation please watch this youtube….

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE

    • fml says:

      02:43pm | 17/05/11

      “What’s in it for us? These are the people that we should say an emphatic no to.”

      Well other than refugees isnt that what we already do? Immigrants have to fit a criteria to get in, and usually that criteria is a skills shortage, so thats something thats in it for us, it helps that little thing we call an economy.

      ““Why would we take anything but the cream ? AND, before you say fml, we have some kind of ridiculous obligation”“

      With out you actually saying it and me reading between the lines, correct me if im wrong, you are referring to refugees. Now i think with the words “ridiculous obligation” i think you already know exactly what i am going to say. We do have an obligation, we are a signatory, its funny people like you expect the law to be followed on a national level then have the arrogance to think we dont have to follow through on our global obligations.

      “here are also plenty of immigrants, Muslim or not, that are an infinite burden to Australia” Ok like who? who are these immigrants?, why only single out immigrants, why not go shoot every australian thats a burden on society? do australians have a god given right to be bludgers? How did they become australians? why shouldnt immigrants who have emigrated be allowed the same opportunity to succeed with out the preconceived notion that every single one of them is a thieving burden on society?

      You say there are plenty of these people and plenty of those people, how much is plenty, bring out some stats of the burden and dont base your arguments on pure emotion.

    • JohnB says:

      03:34pm | 17/05/11

      Far from pure emotion fml. World population increases by more than 80 million a year and most of that is in third world countries. Aren’t we making the problem worse by taking pressure off those countries only for them to very, very, very, very rapidly fill the “void”...In addition we can no longer aid other countries because all our farm land will have been devastated.

      There is no logic in the refugee argument. It is nonsense and I really think a smart guy/girl like yourself is unbelievably blinded by irrational emotion to think otherwise. Think it through, and you’ll see that filling Australia with people (refugees or not) is counterproductive to everything. Over population is at the core of most human problems. Are you okay with a future generation wanting to farm the Royal Nat Pk? Centenial Park? Kakadu? The Daintree? Are you okay with a crop harvest that will halve in the next 20 years (fact 4% per year!!!!)...Do you value national heritage, present Australians, future Australians, native fauna and flora as much as you value this other stuff? When you are very old, tell your grand kids that you advocated immigration; they’ll hate you for it.

    • James1 says:

      03:48pm | 17/05/11

      There was recently a petition with far more than 10000 signatures supporting gay marriage.  Why aren’t you upset about that John?

    • JohnB says:

      04:01pm | 17/05/11

      James1…Because it’s not for or against a passion of mine. You can be sure if I was gay, I’d not only know about it, but I’d be fighting for it….. i wouldn’t for a second say my interests aren’t vested…...They are sincere though. For a “SUSTAINABLE” Australia (surpassed long ago)....

      Bring it on, I’ll go with gay marriage, where’s the petition? it’s just not on my agenda list….

    • James1 says:

      04:15pm | 17/05/11

      I measured you wrong, sir.  My apologies.

    • JohnB says:

      04:34pm | 17/05/11

      Good on you James1…What a cool thing for you to have written…I’ll be looking out for that petition (if it comes around again).....Might even grab a sheet or two and get some more signatures….....Democracy should be heard…..Thanks again..

    • Don Shackleton says:

      03:16pm | 09/06/11

      John B
      I think a few bats have escaped from your belfry mate best you lighten up a bit take a deep breath and calm down failing that find a more sustainable forum

    • Southern Very Cross says:

      08:30am | 17/05/11

      Ross, Brenda and Erick - well said.  And Matt, manyi of the commentators are not racists - just realists.  Many refugees who come here are both bigots and racists and cannot, or will not assimilate because of their cultural ideals and belief systems.  Surely it is better to accept asylum seekers who really seek in a Western socity, with all it’s faults and try to fit in and intergrate?

    • fml says:

      10:08am | 17/05/11

      “Many refugees who come here are both bigots and racists and cannot, or will not assimilate because of their cultural ideals and belief systems”

      Not true. If you were to move over seas, would you forget that you are australian? What have they done to deserve such vitriol? Eat funny foods and speak a funny language? If they break the law they go to jail, just like everyone else.

      “Surely it is better to accept asylum seekers who really seek in a Western socity, with all it’s faults and try to fit in and intergrate?”

      They are integrating, Explain to me how they are not?

    • JohnB says:

      10:54am | 17/05/11

      “They are integrating, Explain to me how they are not? ” With a comment like that fml, you shatter any sensible argument you MAY have. Your whole story has lost credibility.

    • Markus says:

      10:59am | 17/05/11

      “If they break the law they go to jail, just like everyone else.”
      Nope, because then activists cry racism when it becomes very apparent that some races represent a disproportionately high percentage of the prison population.

    • fml says:

      12:51pm | 17/05/11

      If you say so John,

      Your claiming integration is a failure and isnt possible, i ask how? instead of actually listing the reasons why, you say my story has lost credibility.

      I must be a stupid fool for thinking i could get you to defend the claims you make!

      So would it be fair to say the muslim cab drivers, the small business owners, the petroleum engineers from the middle east, the muslim doctors, dentists, bus drivers, professional sports players, those that serve in the ADF. They ALL have failed to integrate? Next time you see a muslim, you can spot them im sure, ask them how much they love Australia, instead of putting words in their mouth and reading fictitious news reports, stop and listen to them.


      MArkus,
      “because then activists cry racism when it becomes very apparent that some races represent a disproportionately high percentage of the prison population.”
      they dont represent a disproportionately high percentage of jails and no one is crying about that, why is it considered a perfectly logical argument to create a fictitious event and claim your perceived reaction to that event as fact?

    • Markus says:

      03:25pm | 17/05/11

      It is hardly a ficticious event. See the Punch article from Amnesty International 2 days ago, insinuating that Indigenous Australians are racially discriminated against because they are overly represented in our prisons.

      Or better yet, the utter vitriol spewed at Andrew Bolt a few months back when he publicly presented the statistics of Australia’s prison populations by race.

    • fml says:

      04:44pm | 17/05/11

      “It is hardly a ficticious event.”

      We are talking about the rates of muslims in jail, this particular thread is about immigrants breaking the law.

      Your using the aboriginal prison rates to justify that all muslims are going to break the law?

      “Or better yet, the utter vitriol spewed at Andrew Bolt a few months back when he publicly presented the statistics of Australia’s prison populations by race.” Ive not read this yet, you happen to have the link?

    • Buster Hymen says:

      03:10pm | 09/06/11

      Southern very cross
      I assume you have the regulation tattoo if so I rest my case (TOOL)

    • ibast says:

      08:54am | 17/05/11

      The Australian mindset is becoming ever more mean spirited.  It’s not the Australia I grew up in and I’m not that old.  Ever since the mid90s popularist, middle Australian, vote grabbing politics has dominated the political agenda.  It has become so prevalent a man who would have once been considered a right wing lunatic is now a serious contender for the position of national leader.

    • Luke says:

      09:18am | 17/05/11

      Public opinion in no way equals political behaviour.

      I’d reckon people are just as (in)tolerant now as they were any number of decades ago.

    • Get with it says:

      09:57am | 17/05/11

      What makes him a lunatic? If you think his vision for an Australia of shared prosperity based around strong families and communities makes him a lunatic then you need to learn more. So, he believes babies should be kept alive and mothers are sacred - doesn’t make him a lunatic, just the most principled leader in our country for a very long time.

    • ibast says:

      10:55am | 17/05/11

      He doesn’t have a vision of shared prosperity for all Australia.  He doesn’t have any vision, he only says what he thinks will get him elected.  Even if you believe what he says, his Australia is only inclusive of white, middle, Christian Australia.  Everybody else is an unwanted aberration.

    • RyaN says:

      11:17am | 17/05/11

      @ibast: so caring about ones country, its future, its values and its people is mean spirited. Sign me up to mean spirited then, I don’t want to see my daughters being raped by Muslim immigrants who then stone them to death under Sharia law.
      You lefties have had your attempt at destroying Australia, time to step aside you boomers, time for the next generation who didn’t waste their youth smoking pot to sort out the absolute mess this pathetic boomer generation has left.

    • Jon says:

      09:04am | 17/05/11

      Yes and if Jesus was around today he wouldn’t be a Christian.

    • TheRealDave says:

      10:26am | 17/05/11

      Maybe because Jesus himself wasn’t a ‘Christian’ and was only an ordinary Jew?

    • Jon says:

      12:16pm | 17/05/11

      Exactly! And worst still, he may not even existed at all.

    • TheRealDave says:

      02:06pm | 17/05/11

      Oh, I have no doubts Yeshua Bin Arraba existed wink

    • Brendan says:

      09:16am | 17/05/11

      The Viet, Indian, Paki, Chinese, Lebo and Jewish refos that I went through university with have made more of a contribution to this country than most.  Does that count?

    • Budz says:

      09:42am | 17/05/11

      Brendan, there is no room here for this kind of talk. This is specifically an anti-Muslim thread. Please find somewhere else to vile left wing rhetoric.

    • Brendan says:

      10:40am | 17/05/11

      Damn it!  I knew I walked through the wrong door.

    • RyaN says:

      02:40pm | 17/05/11

      @Brendan: proof please!

    • Tom says:

      04:44pm | 17/05/11

      @Budz, smug, the forum is meant to air all views, not just those of holier than thou twerps.

      Yes Brendan, it counts. Perhaps you might also like to offer some insights outside the university unless you believe your university experience is representative of the whole of Australia.

    • Mark says:

      09:37am | 17/05/11

      The issue is consent. My nation is my home. I demand the ability to decide who lives in my home. Those who will force themselves upon me are not welcome. I do not care how “nice” they are. I know what happens to people to lose control who enters their country. The Palestinians & Romo-British learnt what happens. There are two types of migrants, those we invite & those who force themselves opon us. One lot are welcome, the others are not.

      As for multiculturalism, has never worked & will never work, differing cultures living cheek to jowl always come to blows in the end. At some point the better angels of our natures give way. Fortunately what is called multiculturalism in Australia has mainly been a multiracial policy, not multicultural policy. The colour of someone skin is unimportant, but how they view the world is very important.

    • fml says:

      01:12pm | 17/05/11

      Mark,

      You do not own australia. You have a vote, exercise that vote.

      “those who force themselves opon us” What about us Australians that want them here? are you not forcing your beliefs on us? I dont own Australia, i dont have the right to single handedly decide what policy is best for this nation. i have a vote, and that one vote cannot be taken away by the likes of you.

    • Grumbleduke says:

      07:29pm | 17/05/11

      No fml, but every immigrant who arrives on the shores weakens that vote, if only slightly, until one day when you realise that the ‘immigrants’ hold the majority vote. I would imagine this is the case already actually since Australia has accepted a great deal of immigrants from all over the world. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, you just need to remember that as we live in a democracy the more immigrants we allow in the more we will change to suit their needs rather than those whose forebears made this country into a place that people are dying in their attempt to get into.

    • fml says:

      09:46am | 18/05/11

      Grumbleduke

      Thats the whole bloody idea of a democracy, its not immigrants you have a problem with its the foundation of democracy.

      “until one day when you realise that the ‘immigrants’ hold the majority vote”
      No they wont, because if you vote you are australian. Unless your going to get into an argument that they are not real australians, like you and your mates?

    • The Duke says:

      09:47am | 17/05/11

      yes it does—and the funniest thing is THESE people are now making up most of the allegedly bigoted racists that are against “illegal immigrants”
      they are Australians too—and most would have had it infinately harder originally than the current lot in any detention facility

    • Peter Wellingham says:

      10:27am | 17/05/11

      It’s only the fringe dwelling xenophobic conservatives that are intolerant.
      The rest of us are quite all right with taking in our share of refugees.
      Luckily these racist conservative haters are a minority and far removed from having a say in our immigration policies and government in general.

    • Jimmy Page says:

      03:03pm | 09/06/11

      Peter
      I want to agree with you but now I fear their numbers are growing and that more of the uneducated masses are starting to adopt this sickening position
      I hear more and more of this type of rant everyday here, at the pub, in shopping centres, on the train, idiots with F@%$ off were full bumper stickers
      its a very ugly mentality. And I think its growing at an alarming rate.

      But I hope I’m I wrong

    • TheRealDave says:

      10:59am | 17/05/11

      Ahh, its GROUNDHOG DAY…again!

      Muslims are under your bed, getting ready to cut your head off and rape your daughters - BOOO!

      If you don’t agree with me you are RACIST! You dirty xenophobic, knuckle dragging redneck racist!!

      Stupidity and moronic inbredness are alive and well in Australia, yes, always has been. So is elitist stupidity of the supposedly educated in equal measure.

      To the Author, your parents, like my grandparents, sat in ‘refugee’ and ‘displaced persons’ camps in Europe for several years after the war striving to get resettled in either the US, Canada or Australia mostly. They jumped through every hoop, filled out every bit of documentation, crossed t’s, dotted i’s. They sat in these camps for years while the allied nations beauraucrats sorted and allocated them. They still had to work menial jobs to help feed and clothe their families during this time. That’s year of their lives lost while the paperwork was done and berths on ships opened up to take them halfway around the world into more camps. How do you think they, and you, would feel if they did everything that was asked of them and waited their time only to be shunted back another 6 months, another year because more cashed up ‘refugees’ were able to ‘jump the queue’ and pay for passage straight to the destination?

      This is not, nor has it ever been about ‘racism’ or ‘religion’. The Refugee Advocacy Industry has long tried to make it about ‘racism’ in order to make the over entitled well off middle class ‘guilty’ about what they have and how their lives are going. It’s never been about the genuine refugees. ALL Australians welcome and have welcomed new and exotic cultures into this country. Sure we have some social issues as we grow and adapt, every culture around the world does throughout history. No amount of sitting around sharing feelings and holding hands will ever change that. But as a whole every Australian can see the benefits that other cultures have brought to this country to enrich ALL our lives every day.  And not just the tucker we eat.

      However, what all Australians, no matter who supposedly ‘grew’ here and who ‘flew’ here, can agree on is our inbuilt Australian notion of ‘A fair go’. Unlike other older nations we doing have an ingrained system of Divine Rule or ‘Born to Rule’ classes, despite the Liberal Party to the contrary. It’s this ingrained ‘Fair Go’ that upsets everyone. Its nothing to do with racism at all for most Australians, sure, like every society we do have our small minority of moronic actual racists. We want to see more Sri Lankans coming here. They are fantastic people, they love their cricket and they always seem happy and cheery to me. Please do come here and settle. Same with Afhgani’s. Please do come here. Bring your ancient culture with you and share it with us. I’d love to sit down with you in a big circle, eat your tucker and share a conversation. Australia is a fantastic place to come and settle and raise your kids in peace and with opportunities they would never get in their home countries.  It enriches all of us, not just those who come here from impoverished backgrounds. But what we don’t want is people who think they can cheat the system by bypassing refugee camps and numerous safe, peaceful countries, or by using their substantial cash to pay people smugglers to get them here rather than following the proper procedures. Nor do we want people who deliberately make the process harder by destroying all their documentation in an effort to make identification so much harder and the process longer. We also don’t want people who will use violence, terror, intimidation etc whilst awaiting processing. That’s not ‘racism’. It will never be ‘racism’ despite the Refugee Advocacy Industry trying to scream that it is. All they want to do is stifle or embarrass ordinary Australians into silence so that they keep pushing their agenda, the same agenda that pays them their living.

      No word is perhaps more abhorrent than being labelled a ‘racist’ in this modern day and age. It’s a weapon to be used. And its being used effectively to stifle any debate on the issue.

      If you let it that is.

    • St. Michael says:

      12:19pm | 17/05/11

      Well said, Dave.

    • James1 says:

      01:33pm | 17/05/11

      Nicely done sir.  Cuts through all the hysterics of the other posts, and represents the issues for what they are.

    • John says:

      11:23am | 17/05/11

      You can’t compared European christian immigrants to the new types of immigrants. They have three things in common, they were white, they were christian and they were European. They respected the white people of Australia. This is why it was successful. You also have large number of Asian immigrants, which are intelligent and law abiding. This why, multiculturalism has been partial success because of these main-groups. In Europe, it’s a different case with majority of immigrants coming from the third world, just remember European children are indoctrinated into the far-left, so they want to tolerate the problems of multiculturalism a lot more where those on the far-right Nationalists don’t want to tolerate anything. Muslim riots a few years ago, where they ran around burning cars and house all over Europe helped their cause.  But that’s starting to crack, as Europeans are finally waking up and seeing how decedent, criminal their streets are becoming because of marxist multiculturalism a Nationalist Revolution is about to occur Front National is verge of Victory in the Marxist State of France. Which is amazing. English voting BNP, Hungarians! Italians! What is needed now is a financial collapse,  this will end the bankers who support multiculturalism and international Marxism and victory from marxist oppression will be won! Europeans shall be free! 

      We shall create new constitution banning Multiculturalism, International Bankers and Marxists from government, media, and financial positions. IMF and WORLD BANK TO BE SHUT DOWN, all European money in those banks shall be removed. Marxist EU SHUT DOWN, Pull all our troops back from Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan and throw the war mongers in jail. America is rip of for revolution, with the Marxists in the america looting all their money and allowing millions of Mexicans to flood the borders, they are getting pissed! We Europeans and the Americans then create a Nationalist christian alliance!

    • TheRealDave says:

      12:35pm | 17/05/11

      A Nationalist Revolution is a fantastic idea, I fail to see how anything can go wrong!

      Only cost..what…70 million dead world wide last time.

      Its posts like this that are the only time I agree with dropping Compulsory Voting…but funnily enough give me an increased desire to campaign for mandantory steralysation…..

    • John says:

      01:31pm | 17/05/11

      Your International Revolution will lead bankruptcy, moral and social decadence, high crime rates and a huge wealth fare state. Which nations will be in debited and involved into the will of the international bankers. It has created and will create corrupt politicians. It will also most likely lead to civil war, sooner or in the future. Christian Nationalism is the only solution.

    • fml says:

      05:24pm | 17/05/11

      your scary john.

    • fml says:

      07:31pm | 17/05/11

      yes yes, before you typo nazi’s get all uppity, you’re.

    • Glen says:

      11:28am | 17/05/11

      At the end of the day the pro-open border advocates have to tell us what they want and stand for - why don’t you just admit its open the flood gates? Is it your own deeply repressed racism holding you back?

      Nothing more then a back door socialist attempt to rearrange society!

    • John says:

      12:02pm | 17/05/11

      I heard the socialists want to get rid of the white race, so they encourage mass immigration, race mixing in the European country’s. If the country’s don’t want to take in immigrants, they usually turn to the UN and Humans Rights Organizations which seem to be Marxist fronts, then with skewed moral justification to allow the million of immigrants to flood into Europe. Aids has becomes a huge problem in Europe, Just one immigrant gave aids to 20 polish girls. Funny, how Ethical Humans Rights Organizations are prompting the genocide of the White Europeans.
      They also never seem to complain about the mass slaughter caused by Marxist Western Forces in Iraq, Afghanistan and Lybia, but only give arrest warrants(crimes against humanity) for those on the receiving end of Marxist Western Forces bombs and missiles. Which had similar case in Serbia a few years ago.

    • matt says:

      12:07pm | 17/05/11

      I agree Glen, let’s open the floodgates.

      We’ll have a flood of about 5000 odd-refugees enter the country.

      All ones who WANT to live a better life.

      Why don’t you admit what your unsupressed racism won’t let you - that you’re scared of new immigrants not just because they’re black, or wear funny clothes, but because they will work harder than you and put you out of a job when your boss at the sanitation facility sees that (a) you’re lazy and intolerant and (b) they’re not?

    • RyaN says:

      06:25pm | 17/05/11

      @matt: having been born and raised in Africa I can tell you that your statement “but because they will work harder than you and put you out of a job when your boss at the sanitation facility sees that (a) you’re lazy and intolerant and (b) they’re not? ” could not be further from the truth.
      If this were true, Africa would be the bread basket of the world, not to mention their natural resources.
      Do tell us what time you have spent in Africa matt to have this qualified opinion you claim.
      What strikes me is that the people with the least amount of experience seem to have the loudest voice.
      If you love this multiculturalism idea so much matt, go and live in Zimbabwe and report back how you were welcomed with open arms, if you make it out alive.

    • john says:

      06:42pm | 17/05/11

      No matt, because i foresee my people being pushed around in Europe by minority’s in their own countrys, i forsee rising crime rates, i foresee the Islamic cultural clash. It’s happening now as we speak. I foresee my people crying for justice, and the marxists won’t give any, i see my people being pushed around by the Marxists. I don’t want this. I want to see Europeans represented, empowered and not pushed around in Europe. I want their will, and only their will be represented in politics, media and banking. I want Europe for Europeans. Not For International Communism.

    • fairsfair says:

      11:45am | 17/05/11

      What I am struggling with the most is this constant need to pigeonhole and then re-pigeonhole. You have the OECD say that we are tollerant, but the author says no. The author says she is the child of an immigrant and the nasty “Aussies” (whoever they may be) are being xenophobic, but then other studies and opinions say that it is the most recent wave of immigrants that are the harshest toward the new arrivals.

      What does this tell me? That we are all bloody different. There are extreme views (often the loudest) and then everyone else falls in between. Why can’t people just accept that and stop trying to come up with this miracle solution that keeps everyone happy. Newsflash to the government - tough decisions are required that may not win you a popularity contest. That is what you are elected to do - make the decisions that nobody else wants to make and then institute the policies in an efficient manner.

      I throw the doors open to immigrants an assylum seekers of every race and creed. I do not think it is wrong for Australia to demand they enter our country on our terms though. A manner which does not cost the tax paying poulation a bomb to facilitate. Our government should hold all the power here but Julia is bend so far over that barrel at the moment the blood supply is clearly being cut off.

    • Richard M says:

      12:08pm | 17/05/11

      Hear, hear!!  Absolutely correct in every way.  The great majority of the opposition to “boat people” has nothing to do with racism, but with fairness and abiding by the rules.  The only thing I would add is that, while this is the case, the dimensions of the actual problem have been blown out of all proportion by certain politicians who are using the issue for their own base political ends.  The size of the problem here is in fact minute compared to many other countries - which isn’t to say that sensible, moderate policies to discourage it shouldn’t be supported.
      Opposition to the policy of multiculturalism is yet another excuse for the superior classes to throw the racist jibe around.  It is perfectly possible to strongly support a generous, non-discriminatory immigration policy, and to recognise the value of diversity, within a framework of overall national unity, but to oppose the foolish policy of multiculturalism which encourages division and tribalism to the total exclusion of unifying approaches such as developing knowledge and understanding of Australian culture and values.

    • Dieter Moeckel says:

      12:36pm | 17/05/11

      Bullshit Richard it has everything to do racism, a racism that was reignited from smouldering embers by Pauline Hanson and exacerbated by John Howard for political gain and embedded with the ANZAC tradition of “They fought and died for our way of life!” Again bullshit. They fought to stay alive and the died for King and Country - and the King was English and the country was England. Not until WW2 dis Australians begin to defend their own country and that was when it was actually abandoned by England and the English King.
      Emperialism, Patriotism and Nationalism are the greatest forms of racism and the resurgence of ANZAC, the defeated invaders of Turkey, brings out a warped racist supremacy that really does not exist except as an open resourcespit for the rest of the world.

    • fairsfair says:

      03:26pm | 17/05/11

      Thats your opinion Dieter. You have every right to hold that because this is Australia, but I vehermently disagree.

      Go ahead and call me racist for being proud of my heritage and interested in protecting my rights as an Australian Taxpayer (that seems to be the basis on which you are bandying that term around), but how dare you speak ill of the ANZACS and the people who are thankful for their past battles and all they represent, for they were not just Galipoli - they protect our interests to this day. How the hell can you turn the spirit behind the memorial of war dead into an example of overt mainstream racism?

      How sad.

    • fml says:

      03:35pm | 17/05/11

      Richard,

      They are abiding from the rules, its the rules you have issues with, its the rules most people have issues with, its just easier to get people on your side with histrionics and exaggerations when talking about brown people.

      because they are soo damned different.

    • Richard M says:

      04:37pm | 17/05/11

      Perhaps, fml, if you turned away from your simplistic and puerile demonising of those who disagree with you, just for a moment, you might be able to think more clearly.  Isn’t it the case that the people who wait patiently in refugee camps in Malaysia, Indonesia and other places, fill out the forms and go through the proper UNHCR processes are “brown people” too?  What do you think they feel about those who have the money and resources to pay people smugglers to leave or by-pass countries of first refuge to make their way to their country of choice, and frequently destroy their identity papers when they get there?  Who do you think deserves first place in the queue?  For heaven’s sake, fml, this has nothing to do with race, or not welcoming refugees.  Most Australians support an increase in the intake of refugees from the camps who have been UNHCR processed, as is proposed in the Government’s agreement with Malaysia, but it is just plain stupid to favour those who by-pass countries of first refuge and encourage more of them to risk their lives in rickety boats.  Try to get over your prejudices about ordinary Australians and listen to what they are actually saying.

    • Dazeddazza says:

      12:37pm | 17/05/11

      To all those who have some sympathy with the introduction of a form of Sharia Law, perhaps spend some enlightening time in Aceh, Indonesia, when some young girl is whipped in public by a brutal thug wearing a mask.  Usually the “crime” warranting this type of punishment is wearing jeans, being caught with her boyfriend sitting on a beach chatting, or having sex with her lover.

    • John says:

      01:12pm | 17/05/11

      What the west has is naive realism. They are told in media how great multiculturalism is, they see it in Hollywood, music industry and taught in schools. There are many that witness the negatives of multiculturalism, and wake up. I’m sure the police know how bad it is, but can’t say anything, since multiculturalism is sanctioned and imposed by the political bodes from the very top. In a sense the police must turn a blind eye, and tolerate the negatives. The people also must tolerate the negatives. So in a sense Multiculturalism is not democratic expression, it’s something that is imposed on white country’s by marxist intellectuals. What ever their agenda is, im sure they know that multiculturalism is not in the interest of white European countrys, but most likely in their interests. So in a sense, white Europeans society is not run by White Europeans, but more like foreign marxist minority’s who might want to see destruction of western society and depowerment of white europeans from the world political stage, and to create one class society, where their religion and tribe becomes political weak, so they can be easily be managed and ruled by the Marxists. We can see this today, as war in middleast is occouring, and the attack on christianity via the media, and mass third immigration to white country’s, whites are crying to stop this! But they can’t, as marxist media, marxist banks and marxist politicians have them in check.

    • Jon says:

      01:27pm | 17/05/11

      We can sum up many of these comments by saying that multiculturalism is perfect and that any criticism of it brands a person racist, fascist and ignorant. Therefore it must be the only government policy forced upon its people in the history of world that has no faults.

    • John says:

      02:11pm | 17/05/11

      Jon, it tends to be human nature to support and their view on the world. If you logic is concrete and rational they still deny it. I think it has something to do with the ego, as the ego looks for some weak information or some event to justified their view of the world. Perfect example is the 9/11 towers collapse. When you state explosives brought the buildings with video evidence, sound evidence, they still deny it. Revert to the official illogical pan cake collapse which is technically impossible. Its like mental changes are slow, it takes time to condition minds, true or false. It might take 10 - 20 years for society to completely to lose faith in the marxist banks, marxist media and the marxist government. Truther Revolution might be take years.

    • fml says:

      03:41pm | 17/05/11

      Jon,

      by all means criticize multiculturalism, no one is calling anyone a racist for that, its when the anti-multiculturalists claim that all the ills of todays australia is the fault of all immigrants, Also, the arguments they put forward use ambiguous percentages as fact instead of statistics. Their arguments are based on fear and they want the moderate people of this world to think that everybody but them is to blame for anything and everything. There needs to be balance in a democracy.

      People need to understand that they are being judged on the content of their views, not because they are putting forward their views, there is a vital difference.

    • Budz says:

      05:42pm | 17/05/11

      Ahhh yes John, great video clip. I love how that justify your stance against multiculturalism with that clip. You clearly haven’t been out in Australia late at night where it’s the dominant culture to get blind drunk and assault people, where so much of it is done by white people. And I also keep hearing about the Irish being in alcohol related violence, should we keep them out too?

    • RyaN says:

      06:16pm | 17/05/11

      @Budz: he doesn’t look drunk to me! No excuses there, just a straight up and down woman beating savage.

    • John says:

      06:49pm | 17/05/11

      Budz, that guy isn’t drunk. I’m sure that type of behavior happens all the time in Europe, but the law just ignores it because the Marxists in power will do anything at all costs to create their Marxist Communist Europe. White Europeans now feel like they are being pushed around by minority’s in their own country’s, they oppressed in their own country’s. This is why Nationalism is on the rise, they know that the nationalist parties will stand for them, protect them and give swift justice for incidents like this.

    • fml says:

      07:30pm | 17/05/11

      And that is why John you are being judged on the content of your views.

    • John says:

      07:40pm | 17/05/11

      Just imagine what would happen to a white guy if he went to china started to speaking to an Asian girl, then hit her in the face, then another white guy came behind her kicked her to the floor. The Chinese police will have him torqued then expelled ASAP. But in Europe! They allow this type of behavior. Males in Europe have had their balls cut off and feminized. The minority’s are just walking over white Europeans as they roam europe committing crimes at will with the support the marxist european legal system.

    • Budz says:

      08:39pm | 17/05/11

      It doesn’t matter if the guy is drunk. Alcohol is no excuse. My point is that type of behaviour happens all the time, alcohol and drugs don’t change the outcome to the victim.
      And I have no problem at all with swift justice for this type of behaviour. I don’t care who they are and where they’re from.
      John, if you say “I’m sure that type of behavior happens all the time in Europe”, can you please prove it.
      Otherwise I can say something as stupid as white people do that kind of behaviour in Australia and get away with it because most cops are white, and it means about as much as your comment.

    • RyaN says:

      10:30am | 18/05/11

      @Budz: take a look at the over-representation of ethnicity in any jail in the world. Sadly this is fact, even worse is the crime of lying to ourselves in an attempt to be PC and ignoring these facts.

    • Jon says:

      02:38pm | 17/05/11

      John, Yes I would agree with that. A good book on this is by Thomas Metzinger. The Ego Tunnel: The Science of the Mind and the Myth of the Self.

    • iansand says:

      03:43pm | 17/05/11

      Proportions seem not to have changed.

      Carry on.

    • Col. of Blackburn says:

      05:13pm | 17/05/11

      @Sra Moscaritolo
      In the time that your parents came to Australia, I presume we were still funding the ‘ten quid tourists?” They would have been placed in a hostel where they received a roof over their heads and three meals a day? In return they would have been obliged to live in certain areas for a limited length of time, before they were free to live anywhere in Australia they so chose. Many just after WWII were placed at Bonegilla and put to work on the Snowy Mountain’s Scheme.
      As for us ‘persecuting’ certain groups, I lived a large part of my adult life in Springvale in Melbourne, where there is a large Indo-Chinese group of migrants and co-incidently a large Buddhist Temple. In over twenty years of living there, never once did I read in the local newspaper that the Head Monk thought that our Australian Women were ‘uncovered meat’, nor did i ever read that he was ‘declaring war’ on our citizens.
      Our Government’s, in their wisdom, set annual migration limits for various classes of migrants, and we as a nation take a very dim view of those who seek to circumvent these limits. Even the UN admits that there are far more ‘refugees’ than can be sustainably placed in those economies that are capable of taking them.
      The whole ‘Refugee Convention’ was set up just after WWII to ensure that no more were certain classes of people, Jews, Homosexuals, Gypsy’s, Jehovah’s Witnesses and those suffering chronic Mental Impairment to be transported to the Gas Chamber, whilst other neighbouring countries merely looked on from the sidelines. Now, while it is entirely noble, and perfectly understandable that people want to escape toxic economies and political systems, many who come here are obviously quite wealthy in their own economies, to be able to pay to be deposited on our shores. For those not prepared to wait for lawful entry into another country, they need to look at changing the political fabric of their own country. You only have to look at certain countries, some in our own region, at there soils, climate and natural resources and ask yourself, ‘why aren’t these countries ‘economic powerhouses’ in their own right?’
      My ancestry is Irish, Scottish and much persecuted by the French, the Huguenots. When they came here, nearly 150 years ago, I am sure that none of them ever had a cappuccino, ate lasagne or a dim sim, nor did they see the Chinese Dragon parading down the street. Every diverse group of migrants adds something to us and hopefully absorbs something from our culture as well. I am sure that Robert Dipierdomenico’s parents never played Australian Rules Football?

    • Grumpy says:

      06:53pm | 17/05/11

      “Now, while it is entirely noble, and perfectly understandable that people want to escape toxic economies and political systems, many who come here are obviously quite wealthy in their own economies, to be able to pay to be deposited on our shores”

      How could you know this? “quite” wealthy…what rubbish. Anyone can find a means to an end if they want it. How can you even know how long it took to save for this money, how do you know the women didnt whore themselves for it? how do you know how they got the money…this is such a bs comment, sorry. most of what you said is fair enough but we have a system in place to process these people, accept it, and move on, people are always going to want a better life, who the hell are you to deny them that?

      Look at the Japanese citizens who were detained in the United states in 1942, google it…Thats how much your rights will help any of us when the shit hits the fan. People need to spend more time worrying about themselves and not making judgements about things they have no way of knowing about other than what the commercial media is purposely telling you to confuse you in the first place, make up your own mind but dont post ridiculous assumptions about things you have no way of knowing.

    • Grumpy says:

      06:30pm | 17/05/11

      The barrage of bigotry that has passed for public discourse on multiculturalism, asylum seekers, Islam and pretty much any issue touching on brown-skinned newcomers has been exhausting and depressing

      Stupid people are more vocal, its as simple as that…Sarah Palin is the perfect example smile

    • Grumpy says:

      07:01pm | 17/05/11

      Who are you? Change your name.

    • Grumpy says:

      07:39pm | 17/05/11

      No, you change your name. I was grumpy way before you were.
      matter of fact, I was born grumpy

    • Bonestar says:

      07:40pm | 17/05/11

      Grumpy, your view is so narrow minded you still don’t realise it’s a religious problem and not a racial problem thus exposing yourself as a racist.

      I pity people who share your view and only see things in a racial manner it really is a truly sad reflection of society when the mostly stupid and vocal share your racially prejudiced views.

    • Shane says:

      01:46pm | 18/05/11

      I don’t understand all the hype about muslim immigrants really.  It’s not like they’re a brand new group of people we found on a small island in the indian ocean - many such folk have been living in Australia for decades! 

      I had plenty of muslim immigrant mates in Sydney 10 years ago and lived in a building full of them - some spoke english well, some didn’t speak any but we were mutually respectful of eachother and quite frankly, they cleaned up the neighborhood a bit by just walking around chatting with their neighbors. 

      I’m openly gay and atheist and never had an issue with them.  If there was ever going to be someone to work them into a frenzy it would be me but I honestly felt safer and more welcome with them than I did in the city at lunch time.

      As my mother used to say to me as a young fella: “Shut up and get over it.  It’s not the end of the world is it?”

    • James says:

      02:53pm | 31/05/11

      Shane, in which Muslim country in the world would you be comfortable in being an openly gay atheist?

    • Brock says:

      03:37pm | 09/06/11

      Shane
      I agree mate these ranting clowns in here should shut up and get over it
      simple

    • Shane from Melbourne says:

      03:58pm | 18/05/11

      Yeah, damn that horde of immigrants from New Zealand, taking advantage of our lax immigration arrangements with New Zealand.

    • Lucy says:

      09:29am | 02/06/11

      Mutliticulturalism refers to multiple law systems and separate societies, and this term should not to be confused with multiracialism.  People rightly take issue with multiculturalism when certain groups demand separation from Australia and want their own laws, their own ghettoed communities.  There is good reason why people take issue with multiculturalism

    • Dark Horse says:

      07:38am | 18/06/11

      The writer says, “what will people be saying about today’s migrants and refugees in 40 years’ time?”.

      The problem with today’s immigrants is that most follow the political ideology of Islam, the primary aim of which is to take over infidel countries and turn them into Islamic utopias.  If we don’t act now to put a stop to muslim immigration we’ll regret it long before 40 years have passed as most other free, democratic countries elsewhere are finding now ... we’ll be bowing five times a day to the imaginary god Allah and people will be emigrating to other countries that are less oppressive if there are any left.

      It’s not about what people eat, what they look like or how they dress, it’s about how they integrate and contribute to the country. Look at how well Asian immigrants blend into Australian society and mostly make a worthwhile contribution. Do you think muslims will do the same?

    • Doug says:

      12:18am | 04/08/11

      The majority of Australians are foriegn, by claiming Australians are racist, you are claiming one can only be called an Australian if they are white ... That’s racism. Every ‘racist’ claim made, is targeted at white people, yet most race crimes are committed by non-whites. You want everyone to be equal, yet want non-whites to have special interest groups, that’s racism too. And I love the claim in the report how his parents were victums of rasicm when they arrived, how about you look up what Australians population was, how it was made up, and how many Greeks/Italians arrived. Damn ignorant communists.

 

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