Time to fold up the tent

nonsense says:

05:26am | 27/01/12

After watching the video of the incident which the daily telegraph has today labled “running the gauntlet” ( who wudda thunk that an old guy on the stairs and 2 ladies 20 metres away was a gauntlet?) the only violence I have seen is an over zealous police officer bashing several people.

acotrel says:

06:55am | 27/01/12

’ opting for the excuse that the violence was somehow inflamed by Tony Abbott, who (only in response to media questions) ‘

And that wouldn’t have been a set-up ? Yeah sure !

Alex says:

07:36am | 27/01/12

Just wondering when the Aboriginal leaders will be apologising to the country for all this in the House of Representatives then? That should go live on all channels too. And besides, plenty of lefties would still have their ‘Sorry’ shirts, would be great to give them another wear..

Bomb78 says:

07:50am | 27/01/12

nonsense: I can clearly see an Aboriginal man pushing a Police officer in the footage the ABC is showing this morning. He is holding a large stick of some kind. He’s lucky the copper only pushed him back, instead of hitting him with his baton. I think we’ll all find the police were a lot more restrained that some are making out today.

Erick says:

07:53am | 27/01/12

Yesterday, I wrote: “There has been a trend in recent times by ideologues attempting to take over traditional commemorations in order to spread messages of guilt and self-loathing.”

This incident is a case in point. Political activists invaded a peaceful Australia Day ceremony in a restaurant in order to impose their message of hatred and division.

Tom says:

08:44am | 27/01/12

Yeah, nonsense, “Police Brootality”. Give it a rest or it might drop off.

paul says:

08:47am | 27/01/12

Normally I do not agree with Erick but in this case he has highlighted a very worrying trend. We now see, if not violnet, at least very vitriolic protesting from both sides of the sprectrum, drummed up by radio shock jocks & opinion writers, minor politicians and professional activists. And then they all have the gall to say “It wasn’t my fault”.

Maybe, although I suspect I have about as much chance as a cinder in snow of seeing this, all politicians will condemn such future planned protests instead of attending them and further stirring up trouble.

Oh, and yes, in case it needs to be said, I condemn the protest based on Abbots words because clearly what he said did not warrant anything more than a few plackards next time he speaks.

Fredtz says:

09:04am | 27/01/12

Australian are extremly introverted violent people i, our history alone proves it, we have inhalated aborigines culture and famillies ,for 200 years we have treated them like dogs, put them into reserve away from eye sight ,we have destroyed their famillies in the name of civilisation and religion , stolen and , raped and killed their childrens…and now you want them to behave in a civil manner or called their behaviour discraceful. Who the hell are you to pass judgement on a whole race of peole that have been persecuted by your ancestors…so get real , if you cant erase your past convict mentality you could at least try to understand thier plague mate…

Gary says:

09:38am | 27/01/12

Fredtz does this mean we can send Germany’s current government to the war crimes tribunal for WW2?
Protip: Our entire country isn’t founded on convicts, immigrants and free people came too - wait sorry, my bad, that’s not sensationalist, ignore me!

Michael says:

09:39am | 27/01/12

Fredtz: I don’t ‘pass judgement on a whole race of peole’, but I do take exception to violence from a small group of radicals who do not accept the authority of a democratically elected government and the law enforcement officers.  I also don’t accept that I am responsible for the actions of people who died before I was born, and I take exception to anyone trying to guilt me into doing so.  I accept that there are many races on the earth that have grievances, but a closed mind and violence is what starts them and doesn’t solve anything.

bob walker says:

09:45am | 27/01/12

@ Fredtz…hear hear…they are a plague

Sanchez says:

10:04am | 27/01/12

Fredtz, if we want them to behave in a respectable manner it’s simply so we can help their cause. Do you really think that rubbish (and it was rubbish) that happened yesterday advanced the very just cause of Native Australian rights?

Also, we are now getting closer to 250 years than 200, so stop quoting Midnight Oil lyrics from the ‘80s, it’s better for all of us.

The embassy should go now. It is no longer representative of anything other than our tolerance of shanties.

JB says:

10:23am | 27/01/12

@Michael, no mate They don’t accept a government because “They” didn’t elect them. THEY want reserved seats for aboriginals. They WANT everything and THEY was us the working people to pay for it all while they sit on their fat buts like always and do nothing to help build and keep this nation running. They are a parasite on the neck of the working man and women.

Ian says:

10:28am | 27/01/12

Hey Fredtz at comment 0904…..whatever drugs you’re on, you should commericalise it mate….you’d make a mint!  If you have a little peak at the whole of our history then what you’d see is a colonisation like any other in the Britsh Empire (excuses nothing I know), however following that are repeated attempts (many of which were misguided and didn’t have the desired effect) throughout our history to help aboriginals, yes even the stolen generation was done because we thought it was the right thing at the time.  Since then many of the ways we’ve reached out have failed due to the divisions within the aboriginal culture and lack of leadership, the me, me, me mentaility is something I think our culture has strongly ingrained within them.  Also, reserves?  Not America mate and as far as destroying their families….at the moment we remove more Aboriginal children from their families than at any other time in our history because of neglect and abuse at the hands of their own.  One last shot before I go, way to wade into the debate about multicultural ethics by segregating yourself…..don’t like our convict history?  Or the feats of those that have gone before?  Kind of what made us what we are today, here able to speak freely about our wrongs….either embrace it all or shut up.  Australian or not, there is no fence sitting when deciding the future of your country mate.

andrew says:

10:31am | 27/01/12

Fredtz, simply put, silly.  Are the aboriginal people (to use your terms, not mine) pass judgement on a whole race(s) of people that have done some unimaginable wrong to their ancestors?

I challenge you, please explain to me why I should be punished and pay for the actions of people that perhaps I am not even related to, I don’t know, that died before I was born?

My brother was beaten badly by drunk Aboriginals (and of course they were let off), am I allowed to hold judgement of the whole race?  Which I don’t.

Liz says:

10:31am | 27/01/12

Definate set up!!.
They must think Australians are stupid, who informed the tent embassy, of Tony Abbots comments,( which were mis quoted to them and caused anger), and who told them where PM and opposition leader would be.

By the way the aboriginals are still the rightful owners of this country they were never conned into signing any treaties with our government, so I guess white mans Law dosen’t apply to them, they are indeed the only truely free race on the planet..

Shannan says:

11:43am | 27/01/12

If anything the action was not delt with more zealous and zeal this is your PM this is the Head of this Nation you should be putting down your life to protect them.
Shoving and pushing to get people out of the way no beat the shite out of them and let them know that this behaviour towards the PM is not tolrated.

iMitchy says:

12:07pm | 27/01/12

@Liz,

And look how well that’s working out for them….

John says:

12:31pm | 27/01/12

@ Fredtz…..just out of interest, have you ever spent any time in a predominantly Aboriginal community?

Warwick says:

01:29pm | 27/01/12

I used to think that it was correct, the assertion that “this is our country, we have a spiritual connection connection that is, and will always be, unbroken.’

Keith Windschuttle has opened my eyes. All lands are settled by waves of immigrants, and the people we call “the Aborigines” are simply those who got here first, nothing more.

And apart from Windschuttle, it is obvious that the British immigrants gave this land it’s start and it’s continuation towards modernity, liberalism, science and general prosperity.

Now the Vietnamese and Chinese have arrived in great numbers and their commitment to learning, science and diligence is likely to displace the British contribution.

Nothing of the Aboriginal influence deserves any special rights. Soon everyone will realize this but by then the Aborigines, still a backward and impoverished people, will have to deal with a Chinese/ Vietnamese government that will not have the same patience as the post British government of today.

Weary says:

04:21pm | 27/01/12

You’re an idiot Fretz.  The only relevant point you make is that these crimes were committed by our ancestors.  You fell predictably short of pointing out that the victims of these crimes (that we didn’t commit) are not the people in the tent embassy, it was THEIR ancestors.  So basically we have people that nothing happenned to getting angry with people who didn’t do anything - and there in the middle is you, pretending it all makes perfect sense.  Sounds like a politically correct zombie buckling under the weight of his own sense of white guilt.  That would explain like you talk about US erasing OUR convict past, like you couldn’t possibly have anything to do with it.

WTF says:

09:53pm | 27/01/12

@ Weary - ever heard of the ‘Stolen Generation’? Ever heard that they were still taking Aboriginal children away from their families right up until the late 70s? Many whom still haven’t been reunited with birth parents and siblings? But sure, it was our ancestors fault and they’re victimless - and you’re the idiot.

TimB says:

06:14pm | 26/01/12

Might have something to do with the usual idiots who are just waiting for an opportunity to scream ‘RACIST’.

Or maybe it’s an example of ‘positive discrimination’ in action?

Peter says:

07:05pm | 26/01/12

Totally agree Shane…. and I wonder whether these welfare recipients are treated the same as white welfare recipients….. absolute abhorrence for what happened today!

Alan says:

07:43pm | 26/01/12

Everyone knows that if you’re white you’re a racist extremest and thus such actions must not be tolerated but if you’re a peace loving Aboriginal (cue today’s performance) you’ll get away with anything and probably get a grant to assist.

Sean B says:

01:48am | 27/01/12

The Indigenous population of Australia constitutes only 0.58% of the population. Currently, there is more Croatians (0.59%) living in Australia and more indigenous New Zealanders call Australia home than Aboriginals and Torres Strait Islanders combined. Why then, do we continue to throw more resources, assistance and welfare concessions to this most minor of minorities than any other demographic? I wonder how quick I would be ushered along if I attempted to set up my own tent city? Time to stop the ‘Free Lodgings’ at Old Parliament House. PM, do something right for a change and make the hard decisions!

Dave says:

02:42am | 27/01/12

Might have something to do with the fact that the occupy protesters are occupying foot traffic zones in the middle of major cities while the embassy is on a bit of grass in Canberra in a spot where few Canberrans bother to go. I have noticed them a few times when Ive been to Canberra parliament and on the balloon fiesta but theyre out of the way and irrelevant. For the record the Falun Gong protest around at the Chinese Embassy has been there for many years - day and night. Plenty of space for that sort of thing in Canberra. Although no one will notice you (until you effectively attack the PM). But theres no conspiracy to it, although TimB, Peter, and Alan would obviously like there to be one so they can indulge in their own personal paranoid fantasies..

Paul J says:

08:51am | 27/01/12

Sean B, if you are going to quote statistics to make a point, make sure they are correct. Historically, the number of people identifying as Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander has been increasing - in the 2001 census, they made up 2.2% of the population, this has probably gone up slightly since ( not sure what the most recent census showed). Much higher than your figure of 0.58%. Would like to know where that figure came from. But still a small minority nonetheless.

jamie says:

09:29am | 27/01/12

Paul J, You realise you are quoting a statistic over 10 years old now? you know that 2001 was not the last census date? you know that that population has increased in Australia by approximately 20% since your quoted statistics? you know that migration laws etc. - I would be surprised if that figure has gone up slightly

I "identify" as Martian - give me Mars. says:

09:54am | 27/01/12

I’ve always found the “identifying as aboriginal” argument because someones great great aunts second cousin twice removed once knew someone who was indigenous more than a bit specious. (And even that’s no longer requried - you just need to have been raised within 100km of an indigenous community and you can “identify”) Especially when so many of the “identified” indigenous people bear none of the genetic hall marks common in other indigenous people and look like the rest of the melting pot that is australian society today, not to mention never having lived in an indigenous community (and the eyesore at Parliament House doesnt count). .

If I went to any country in the world and said I “identified” as belonging to that country, it wouldn’t grant me any special concessions or give you any special status. Unless I had direct descendants from whom I could tie a direct line back to - I could be wrong but I think even the EU only goes back up to parents (and possibly grandparents in the UK?). 

I’m an immigrant, and I remember when we came here 30 odd years ago having to deal with all sorts of challenges and I’m sure my parents would have loved as many concessions as the indigenous australians still have to this day.

Seth says:

11:09am | 27/01/12

BRAVO!!  It’s fantaitc to see white Australians standing up for themselves against this injustice… they have recieved far too much for far too long.

Paul J says:

11:27am | 27/01/12

Jamie, i realise that we had a census last year, but couldnt find any results online. I did find some stats from 2006, however, that estimate the proportion of indigenous Australians at between 2.4 and 2.6 %. So a slight increase over time still seems most likely. To ” I identify as martian. Give me mars.”, yes, people “identifying” as one race or another may seem unreliable, but surely is the most sensible way to categorise people, if we feel the need to do so. How else would we do it? It does seem a little offensive to distrust someone because they “dont look like” an aboriginal. I am of English descent, but have an Australian accent- I would be miffed if someone disbelieved my origins because I dont sound English!

Dave says:

01:15pm | 27/01/12

I identify as indigenous.
I was born here, my parents where born here, my great grandparents where born here.

Therefore I am a native of this land.

Also you can identify yourself to Centrelink as Indigenous and they have no way at all of confirming it. And if they do you can sue for deformation and there is now way to prove you wrong.

maria says:

01:44pm | 27/01/12

I’m curious too as why we allow a system who is discriminating against its own people and give more rights to to the boat people ?

Don’t you feel that we are too a second grade citizen with no democratic rights after each election?

How can you definite democracy when the people are completly irrelevant as we are under the rule of the political parties who are not mention in the constitution ....
Tell me where do they get their absolute power?

gas says:

02:54pm | 27/01/12

Could it be that the NSW and VIC unlike theACT gov had balls and moved out the trouble makers also who would want to run a function in the ACT after this mess

George Krooglik says:

09:52pm | 27/01/12

Fredtz, your miopic view of history is so laughable !

Do you really think the aboriginies alone were so awfully victimised like you assert ?  FYI, at the turn of the 1800’s there were over 200 British statutes with the death penalty, even children were hung for various crimes. Not just indigenous, but white people, including children.  Also, poverty, brutality, slavery and deprivation were rife in that historical period, even up to the 1940’s and later….not just against the blacks but mainly the white people. Stop looking at an inhumane period of world history through indigenous glasses based on todays value systems for you will surely be deluded as I feel you are. 

Open your eyes to the progress made since industrial age man met with stone age man in a vast area of some 7 million square kms, over 500 tribes, many hostile to each other, to attempt to educate, sustain, to keep safe and touch the new world.

  I feel you are blinded by misguided and outdated sentiments which, perversely, is what is holding back the full develpoment of indigenous potential !

John. L. says:

03:24pm | 29/01/12

@ WTF, do you honestly think that aboriginal children were the only ones that were taken from their mothers. i think you need to learn of the white children that were taken from white mothers right up to the seventies. read a little history you might learn something.

Paul says:

03:31pm | 30/01/12

Warwick - Keith Windschuttle has opened my eyes

The fact that Windschuttle is a discredited right-wing ideolog who’s falsehoods have been proven copious amounts of times by REAL historians has somehow opened your eyes….says a lot about your intellect.

If you are that easily influenced, please don’t listen to rock music, you would probably neck someone.

Sheldon says:

05:56pm | 26/01/12

Those would be the reason why they formaly apologised.

the_pseudonym says:

06:00pm | 26/01/12

‘You know the one I mean, the mob that took children from their parents and caused untold suffering a little more than 50 years ago.’  Sorry Kuali, but I have to disagree, for all the hand wringing, there has yet to be any actual names forthcoming, of children actually ‘stolen’.  If you are equating removal of children from a ‘dangerous’ situation, it still happens, no matter what race or creed.

Disco Stud says:

06:04pm | 26/01/12

Just because you apologise for fucking someone over doesn’t make it OK. But to be fair it was hardly the fault of the current government what happened in the past so that olive branch needs to be accepted at some point too. More also needs to be done to extend an olive branch that is genuine and agreed to by all. Read the daily telegraph comments if you want to see a lot of bile and hate still in mainstream Oz. What in fact should have happened today was the PM should have invited 2 or 3 of the leaders of the protest in for a talk over lunch. Imagine that, what a powerful act of leadership and strength but also conciliation that would have been (it would have to have been accepted in the good faith too). Could have changed the nation! Sometimes its that simple, it really could have.

Brett says:

06:11pm | 26/01/12

So, do you want all non-Aboriginals to leave Australia? That seems to be the only solution you would accept. Though if we did leave and things went wrong then you’d no doubt blame on us as well. We’ve made mistakes in the past, we’ve apologised, we try to help, we get told to ‘piss off’ then we don’t help and we get told to get off our arses and help. We do a lot wrong, granted, but we try, and most Australians do care about the disparagies between Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal Australians. Attacks on the Prime Minister and Opposition Leader are appalling, whatever the reasons and should not be tolerated. I;m not even saying the Tent Embassy should be banned or stopped but an apology and a good long hard look at themselves is greatly needed. Because more of this violence against the PM and OL, will quickly lose any sympathy any Australians had for the Tent Embassy.

Happy New South Wales Day

why woi says:

06:28pm | 26/01/12

Many more non aboriginal children were removed from their countries and mothers by Australian government/church/hospital policies of the past. Non aborignals also have faced violent and bloody invasions and wars. Why is it we dont act like this ? By your logic, and the facts of history, white people in fact as much, if not more rights than anyone to be acting up over past injustices

Craig says:

06:34pm | 26/01/12

Kuali,

You’ve learnt to be bitter and you will die bitter, sorry you feel that way and this is coming from someone who belongs to a minority group in Australia.  Time to move on.

RyaN says:

06:42pm | 26/01/12

Kuali: So what is it you want that they haven’t given you already?

How old are you by the way? You were around to experience these things you speak of? You were directly impacted by it?

Anonymous says:

06:42pm | 26/01/12

For Christsake it’s time to stop sniffing petrol and move on - I am one of the thousands upon thousands of Australians who immigrated here decades after the Stolen Generation occurred. Why should new Australians have to pay for these sins of the past?

The half-blood immigrant says:

06:47pm | 26/01/12

Thank you. Happy Invasion Day to you too, turtle. If only the aboriginals of this land fought back AT ALL. My ancestors fought white expansion and the purebloods have land and rights. Your ancestors turtled up into their shell and have a tent. Oooooooh. Impressive. If I had your address, I’d send you some cheese to go with your whine.

Sun says:

06:56pm | 26/01/12

That Government is long gone, are you not satisfied that those policies are gone? that the government has changed so much since those days? No of course you’re not, you need to bring up the past, you love it and feed off it, it gives you this sick feeling of identity. Let go, forgive, be happy with the changes being made and still to come. Its your own inner hatred holding yourself and the Aboriginal people back.

mark dent says:

06:56pm | 26/01/12

“Slaughtered countless thousands of aborigines”
When people resort to lies it damages the credibility of their argument. Simple facts are clearly not enough for you, Kuali. Please give me the names , dates and places where thousands of aborigines were deliberately slaughtered. Sadly, the vast majority died because of the diseases they were unintentionally exposed to when the Europeans arrived.

Matt says:

07:14pm | 26/01/12

Happy Welcome to Modern Civilization Day! Enjoy your medicine, education, housing and greater life expectancies.

Yeti says:

08:08pm | 26/01/12

Kuali, you are what is wrong with the Political Aborigines.  You feel as if you are the only historically aggrieved people on this planet, the reality is history is littered with deeds imposed on one nation of people by another.  You don’t see the Convict settlers whinging about their forced removal from England.  You dont see the British making claims on Norway or Italy for the invasions by the vikings or the Roman Army.  The reality is what happened was wrong, and we have learnt from it over time but to continue to harp on about it as if your personally affected is just political opportunism and until you get over it, you will never improve your lot no matter how much misguided funds, advantages are chucked at you.  Today is about Australia a country we all share, generations after the terrible acts you state.  Todays generations would never consider such actions as justifiable and in the main deplore them, maybe you should join us in trying to live in one Australia where every one does get equal opportunity if they wish to participate in the mainstream and live where the opportunity exists.

I hate pies says:

08:16pm | 26/01/12

The rhetorics about “invasion day” are fundamentally wrong. The british never intended to “invade” Australia and go to war with the Aboriginal people; their intention was to set up a penal colony.
The vast majority of people in the first fleet were prisoners: 696 prisoners and 348 free persons. Of the free persons, 212 were marines.
No country on earth has ever invaded another with a force of 212 and brought with them ships full of prisoners, that were their own people.
The people of the first fleet were treated as poorly as any modern refugee; many were locked up in appalling conditions for minor offences, and given a life sentence on the other side of the world, where they would never see their families again.
It’s time to take a step back and look at the facts of British settlement in Australia; there was never an “invasion”; they came here to establish a penal colony; they were immigrants, not a marauding army; the British treatment of Aboriginal people was appalling, but so was the treatment of their own.

Godiva says:

08:30pm | 26/01/12

Kuali

A sad case of bitterness to something that should never be tolerated in the 21st century. As much as I have scrutinized our PM from every angle she doesn’t deserve to be dragged out in fear of her life out of a building where she was doing something really credible for all Australians.

Thank you David for seeing it like you did. I watched David Spears interviewing the creep Michael Anderson and was disappointed in Spears for not making Anderson feel that all he had achieved in setting up the embassy tent 40 years ago was driving the wedge further into what seems to be an everlasting problem in this country.

I am with the blogger that asked why are a group of indigenous people who have been fortunate to attain an education treated with kid gloves? We have democratic laws that all Australians must abide with so why is the police saying there will be no charges made? This mob of Australians do not deserve any respect because they live to destroy the very chance of every Australian coming together as one. I wish they would waste their energy into making sure all indigenous children gain the knowledge that to remain in school will grant them a good education and prepare them for a good independent future.

Brian Taylor says:

08:46pm | 26/01/12

wow Kuali, whose got a huge chip on their shoulder, maybe if you got a job and worked like most people have to for their living, then maybe you wouldn’t have to be in a tent, by the way any of that mob work or are they all on the dole

Andrew says:

09:06pm | 26/01/12

So Kuali. What do you believe would have happen if the english didnt come here, do you believe the aborigines would still be running around and living like they were 225 years ago. The french or Dutch would have come, go have a look at the countries they colonised back then and tell me how many ancestors you can find of the original occuppiers of those lands, bet you cant find many. The simple fact is, wether you like it or not everyone here now owes there existant to the English, because if they didnt settle here, someone else would have and Australia and the people living here now would not exist, it would be called something else and it would be full of completely different people.

Kuali says:

09:54pm | 26/01/12

Interesting comments - It appears from your comments that:

I am hand wringer.
I appear to want all non-Aboriginals to leave Australia
Children weren’t stolen
I’ve learnt to be bitter and will die bitter
I’m a petrol sniffer
Aboriginals deserved what happened to them because they should have fought back more vigorously with their sticks and stones against guns and cannon
I have an inner hatred
The Tasmanian Aborigines weren’t hunted to extinction
I think I am part of the only aggrieved people on the planet
The British didn’t invade Australia
I apparently have a huge chip on my shoulder
I should get a job
And last but not least if the British didn’t do it then someone else would have.

It’s been a very revealing afternoon. I’m not quite sure how you found out all these things about me from the comments I wrote.
Thank you all for helping me understand so much about myself and putting forth your thoughts on the true version of Australian history.

It’s been real.

Andrew says:

10:40pm | 26/01/12

So Kuali, you still didnt answer anyones questions so I will ask again. What do you think the position of the aborigine people would be if the Englsh didnt settle in Australia? What is it you actually want every non aboriginal to do? So when is enough enough, when do you stop living in the past, how many years have to past before everyone can move on and actually live together as one group of people.

DMC says:

10:52pm | 26/01/12

Kuali,
I am a white Australian of several generations. I am absolutley astounded at the blatantly racist responses to your post many of which seem to be mindlessly parroting the arguments of that discredited racist Bolt. The “celebration” of Australia Day has become embarassing and jingoistic. I share your views.

DMc says:

11:01pm | 26/01/12

Yeti,

there are no claims today by the British agianst the Vikings etc etc, because the British (and the others you named ) are no longer oppressed people. The Aborigines are. Witness Howards apartheid “intervention”

E2 says:

01:27am | 27/01/12

Honestly, I fully support Indigenous Australians and and the notion of us living together in peace. I even support giving more money to help with better education and medical needs. But as a white Australian i am sick of being blamed for what happened generations ago! I did not steal any children, I did not invade this country, I did not hurt any Aboriginal people And i most certainly did not steal my land!!! I am more than happy to help, but everytime I do or support something (Like Sorry) its not good enough. I am sick of trying, I have Aboriginal friends and they understand my frustration as a ‘Whitey’.
So to put it simply, I’m sick of trying to help the whinging minority, I’m over it! I still support Aboriginies, but, from now on, I will save my support for the Aboriginals that embrace, appreciate and reciprocate it!

A concerned viewer says:

04:39am | 27/01/12

where is all this violence? where are the pictures or video in this day and age of iphones? All I see is a white lady whos scared shitless, pushing her way to her car with the cops….......I dont see her being attacked…. the headline is misleading…...the media wants you to believe something that did not happen….......

Little Joe says:

07:29am | 27/01/12

Kuali

Why don’t you do some research on “Aboriginal Infanticide”??

M says:

08:27am | 27/01/12

Kuali, Is an apology and recognition of past misdeeds not enough? Or do you simply want to continue to try and guilt trip innocent Australians who had nothing to do with the past to try and make up for your own inadequacies or percieved injustice?

You sound like a well balanced induvidual, as you have chips on both shoulders.

Chris says:

08:43am | 27/01/12

I think you will find a strong mob of aboriginals living in Tasmania who disagree with your comment that they are extinct.

jay-ded says:

09:26am | 27/01/12

@Kuali.

Here’s the real deal Kuali.  Maybe you should read a bit more ...

http://www.tasmanianaboriginal.com.au/liapootah/whomakes.htm

kelly says:

09:31am | 27/01/12

Kuali: I agree with you 100%. The comments on this page are proving how much the Australian Government is trying to pretend that everything is okay now and that every thing is better. Mr Abbott is claiming that we have “moved on” and that “we should be proud of the respet we recieve from every Australian. I am educated, I have a high paying job but I still have dark skin, I still talk with a black fulla accent and I will never forget that I am from Burntbridge Mission and each and every day I am looked down upon. Aboriginal people recieve a lot of respect from non Indigenous Australians and they recieve no respect from the remainders. Indigenous Australians deserve more then an apology! I understand that it wasn’t this government that stole our land, raped our women, killed our men and stole our children but this government is trying to pretend the past didnt happen. The majority of comments here prove how much things haven’t changed, saying things like Aboriginal People are petrol sniffers and lazy, and I actually comparing Julia Gillards “stolen” shoe to our land being stolen. I am all for reconciliation and I understand that some Aboriginal people arent going about things the wrong, that it will take each and every Australian to move forward but Tony Abott and Julia Gillard cannot keep pretending that they want to move forward and blaming it on us. We have the right to fight, we have the right to protest, we have the right to want more its what we deserve because no matter what any one has to say it always was and always will Aboriginal land.

Terry says:

09:31am | 27/01/12

Kuali you have raised some important issues, unfortunately you have also raised the ire of ignorant people. It is near impossible for ‘white’ Australians to have empathy for a culture that was in some cases decimated, and it took until 1967 for Aboriginal people to be given the right to vote, that is a national shame, yet nothing compared to being removed from their lands as a nuisance, in many cases whole tribes massacred, when is enough enough of this “aboriginal whining’. It is not for me as a white person to judge, your culture needs to work that out. We as the whites need to be tolerant and sensitive to it. The solution may not be an open cheque book or meaningless apologies, it means positive forward development.

Carl Palmer says:

09:58am | 27/01/12

Well well well, firstly, thank you, I together with lots of other folks yesterday (Aussies & *real* non Aussies) – even in the rain, had a great day. If you didn’t, that’s your fault.

There are many many people who by no fault of their own suffer all sorts of miseries – temporary & permanent. But guess what, they dust themselves off and get on with life. They don’t whinge and complain like you. Quite frankly, I’m sick of your kind – constant winging, claiming all sorts of persecutions and blaming everyone and anyone. You don’t have this that and the other and you want this that and the other. Oh and I forgot, you want it for nothing. Free!!! That’s right you have rights!

Kuali – or whoever you might be, if you were given $1 or $10 or $100 or $1000 or $10,000 or $100,000 or $1Mil a day you’d still find something to complain about.  The reality is you have much to be grateful for yet you whinge.  If it’s so bad here, then go elsewhere.  I think it’s time you moved on and caught up with the 21st century.

BTW, just in case you didn’t get the message, what your kind did yesterday was disgraceful and unacceptable. Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott (and the people who voted form them) would like an apology from you. Waiting………….

Your name: Matt says:

10:07am | 27/01/12

@The Half Blood Immigrant

Do me a favour and ditch the $1.50 you paid on your Australian History education and go read some critical literature. You’ll find many instances of resistance that have been largely ignored by mainstream culture in favour of ANZAC stories and other ‘nation’ building narratives. One such instance, the Kalkadoon mob, fought against overwhelming odds and nearly all went to their death after storming the European forces in their homeland. Similar to Gallipoli but on a smaller scale, the superior firepower of the Europeans wiped them out quickly. They died trying to defend their land and families from takeover but we dont hear about, at least not until you do your own research or do some sort of tertiary education in this area.

To anyone on the message board who denies that the systematic and deliberate removal of children and frontier violence ie sporadic mass killings of Aboriginals was anything other than an attempt at social engineering is sorely misguided. The reasons behind removing half caste children were written into legislation, go look it up. We have a hugely racist past based on shitty pseudo science from the early 1800’s.

People talk about the Indigenous population as such a small minority yet they ‘get so much’. Lets not forget that every opportunity that our great nation provides us is directly a result of the benefits of stolen land, deliberately destroyed culture and then imposed slavery in the reserve systems which gave us the booming pastoral industry which our nation was built on.

And for those that say we have apologised…..big deal. The Labour Govt (regardless of whether its Rudd or Guillard - we vote for parties not pollies) promised a joint ‘war cabinet’ with the coalition to actively combat Indigenous issues. This has not moved an inch since the apology. More hot air again.

Willo says:

10:18am | 27/01/12

Oh Andrew Kuali won’t have any answers, as usual, please don’t ask her/him to actually think for themself, spitting out the anciet rhetoric is all they’ve got, it’s a money maker after all….

JB says:

10:34am | 27/01/12

@Brett, fine mate lets all leave Australia. But first level EVERY building and obliterate everything that “White man” built. Leave the country EXACTLY the way we found it, with no technology, buildings etc. But then the Aboriginals would cry out for international help to rebuild what they never built in the first place then sponge off their helpers just like to do to us now!

JB says:

10:37am | 27/01/12

@kelly, Well tell me EXACTLY what it would take to move on! What will it take to blanace the ledger? I eagerly await your reply!

Mike says:

10:49am | 27/01/12

Call it invasion day if you will, I like to refer to it as VA day (Victory in Australia day). The day we colonized and civilized this great land!!
Your welcome

Liam says:

11:01am | 27/01/12

@Andrew,
completely agree!! Imagine if the japs had found this land, considering the way they treated POW’s during the war, i’d be surprised if there would be any aboriginals left

Trom says:

11:08am | 27/01/12

@DMc,
There oppressed because we are forcing money, jobs, healthcare, and free down there throats!! How dare we

Mike says:

11:13am | 27/01/12

Julia Gillard had her shoe stolen, Tony Abbot had his TV stolen

George Krooglik says:

09:10pm | 28/01/12

Well, well Kuali…perhaps you could tell the readers HOW you expected the Europeans to treat the aboriginies when they arrived in 1788 seeing you can find nothing balanced to write about ?.  Please, spell it out .

Keep in mind only several hundred landed in the late 1700’s with establishing a penal colony in mind..not to invade.

Strange “invasion” indeed when the invaders give 18 years notice of their arrival ( 1770-1788 ), what democratically elected Govt was overthrown, which country in 1788 had a better, more humane policy of dealing with indigenous peoples than England,  how could the English, landing on a tiny speck of land in a 7 million sq km land mass be invaders, how could any effective sort of communication have occurred with more than 500 tribal groups with diverse languages spread over that vast land ?

It was a stange “invasion” when so many of the “enemy” gravitated towards the invaders for food, shelter and medical supplies and the “invaders” willingly gave it and continue to do so most generously since 1788 ?

When have you once heard the bleeding hearts acknowledge any of the fabulous achievements and advancements such as in education, health, cultural recognition, Government grants , medical assistance, housing etc etc ?

It seems so ironic that what the English tried to do from 1788 for indigenous perons such as providing reliable food sources, shelter, education, medicine and housing is what the bleeding heart brigade agree needs to be done in 2012 .

Whilst some may call it “invasion day “, others call it “Enlightenment Day ” , when stone age culture’s destiny interacted with industrial age culture .

Disgusted says:

01:25pm | 29/01/12

Kuali you rock! Your response to the deluge of ignorant, uneducated and covertly (and some very overtly) racist comments is gold… I think your ironic, honest and realistic take is lost on the majority of moronic imbeciles. However I for one appreciated it . Happy Invasion Day!!!

gas says:

07:32pm | 27/01/12

Kelly the first tribe in Australia were pygmies they were hunted and killed by the tribe which migrated from the north the pygmie tribe hid and lived in the scrub in nth old there are still decendants living around Kuranda

Patricia Barton says:

05:56pm | 30/01/12

My ancestors arrived in irons on the 1st Fleet in 1788. Anthony came on the ship “Alexander” and his wife to be was on the “Prince of Wales”. They had the first white baby born on Botany Bay. Does anyone believe they knew what they were coming too? I certainly don’t feel the need to apologise for the upheavels that followed.

Louis says:

08:02pm | 26/01/12

They’ll be brought together by seperating them out into two different countires????? BTW all governments in Australia have recognised indigenous people. What on earth do you think Native title legislation is all about? Pull you head out of the clouds!

Chris L says:

11:08pm | 26/01/12

Mungo man doesn’t exist anymore. No-one to receive the recognition you speak of.

Tom says:

09:41am | 27/01/12

bryan I have yet to see conclusive proof that the oboriginal race was the first and only race to inhabit Australia. So until I see real proof, the white man did not steal anything.

old fart says:

12:35pm | 27/01/12

It aint going to happen, mainly because, The majority of the population are fearful of sovereignty claims and the effect of those claims on their land titles.

back to the tent embassy, realistically speaking it’s a waste of space. It is irrelevant because it has lost it’s impact both visually and politically.  People who live in the ACT as well as vistors see it as an eyesore, why didnt it move up the hill when the parliament moved?  currently peole dont even see it anymore.
It has been out of the mainstream conciousness for many decades.  The most puzzling thing about it is why do you need to set up an embassy in a land you claim as your own, a government in exile perhaps, but not an embassy.

I am pro equal rights and treatment of indigenous people but yesterday you did yourselves a great disservice. you pushed the wrong button and ended up looking like a mob of yobbos.  you should be proud of your heritage, don’t cheapen it with behaviour like yesterday.

If you had all surrounded the venue silently and turned your backs on it silently it would have been a far more effective protest

George Krooglik says:

09:36pm | 27/01/12

Bryan, what does ” first peoples” and “sovereignty ” really mean..?  What status does that attach to a stone age culture in the 21st century ? Please, spell it out for everybody .

Griffin says:

08:26pm | 26/01/12

What sort of republic, JaB?  How will it be run?  Who will be Leader?  How will they be held accountable?  Why can’t all the tribes just act as one NOW?  Why wait for some mythical “republic” to solve the problems?  Because it won’t.  Fix the problems first, then look at a republic.

But you can leave out the Collingwood supporters!!  (kidding!)

Jim says:

08:37am | 27/01/12

I am a white Aussie married to an Aboriginal Aussie and I agree with this 100%, until you sit down and have an chat with an Aboriginal as to why they are so angry we will never understand.  My wife and father-in-law have taught me a lot over the last 15 years and one major sticking point is the attrocities that were committed by people over the years hiding behind the Australian and british flags.

I have read a lot of comments on here about things never appening to Aboriginals and that most died of diseases which, while true, pale in comparisons to some of the massacres that occured.  Examples of which can be found in towns like Guyra, Busselton and even in suburb of Sydney.

I say, new flag, new coat of arms and new system of leadership.  Bring on another Republic referendum and let’s all move on and bcome mates

Sanchez says:

10:09am | 27/01/12

Jim, do you think there is anything we can really do to settle the issues which these protesters continue to speak of.

Much hurt was done, nothing can erase it, so we could give each Native australian a million dollars each and it would still enable them to point at the atrocities of the past, rightly or wrongly, and protest just as hard as they do now.

Flags - really - are we really saying a new flag will fix things?

Matt says:

07:30pm | 26/01/12

I think you’re being a bit melodramatic.

Brian Taylor says:

09:03pm | 26/01/12

a race war? surely you jest mate, take a chill pill and go sit in a corner somewhere nice and quite

chris ozman says:

09:06pm | 26/01/12

The “race war” bit maybe, but this is a very, very serious PR moment for Aboriginal Australia, caused by a mob of idiots who wouldn’t know Aboriginal culture if they fell over it.

Caroline says:

04:32pm | 27/01/12

I feel a lot of Aboriginals dwell on their history rather than make the most of what our country has to offer. They have no right to use their ancestors story as an excuse for the pockets of filth and the appalling mistreatment of so many children. Their story to todays children should be how they have overcome past trauma to become the exemplary people they are today. How many Aboriginal doctors, lawyers, scientists, reporters ect do we have? And why not? Race is not an issue but will be used by lazy parents and bleeding hearts.

For what it’s worth, I hardly see how 1 ship landing could be could an invasion. It was a journey of discovery and how lucky are WE all to live in this beautiful wide open land.

Amos Fittler says:

07:24pm | 26/01/12

Agreed. To those who participated in that disgraceful and violent riot in Canberra today - congratulations, brainiacs ... you just set your cause (however rightful it may be) back around 50 years.  Welcome to the scorn and disgust that some of you now deserve.

Craig says:

07:28pm | 26/01/12

I think you spoke for a lot of people today Bertrand, hard to feel empathy for one’s situation when that someone wants to kick your head in.

Sam says:

09:02pm | 26/01/12

Betrand, I was once told that there are many ‘white looking’ people who are actually Aboriginal people (so they keep saying).  Although I don’t think any white looking person has any right to call themselves indigenous and they are simply capitalising on trying to get an extra government handout.

Bertrand says:

09:34pm | 26/01/12

@Sam - I disagree.

I have a very close friend who is a white looking Aboriginal. He was born in an indigenous community to a clearly indigenous mother (ie. a black woman). He was brought up by indigenous people in the community. He experienced the discrimination felt by the community and was brought up with the community’s values and culture. His skin is white because of a genetic throwback, going back at least two generations.

To me this guy is as indigenous as any black indigenous person and shouldn’t be seen as just some whitey trying to barge in on their show. Skin colour doesn’t always denote heritage and it is a little dangerous to think it does.

Fiasco says:

08:54am | 27/01/12

Have any of you ever been to a protest march or participated in a political action?
What happens is you show up with a cause and peaceful demonstration in mind, you wave your banners and chant your slogans and get ignored. Then it dawns on you, there are many things about the person/people/organisation you are here to picket really get your goat. All of the times you’ve been ignored in the past, every time they have looked down their nose at you, when they dismissed your letters, emails and phone calls and didn’t even have the courtesy to send you back some shitty automated reply… If this realisation hits a few people at the same time, pack mentality sets in and things get out of hand.
There wasn’t just Indig protesters there yesterday.
There is more than one reason everyone was there yesterday .
Maybe if the PM spent some time engaging with Indig Elders and leaders there would be less reason for such “chaos”.
Australia day is a joke, our flag incites racism and our Indig mob are over looked and treated with kid gloves. Actively involve the people for a better result because ignoring it the reason for such drastic action.

Mark G says:

09:25am | 27/01/12

Betrand

‘Skin colour doesn’t always denote heritage and it is a little dangerous to think it does. ‘

True but that depends on wether you are defining aboriginality by culture or by race. They are two different things. If you define aboriginality by culture (rather than race) then technically speaking a full anglo-saxon person who chooses to live by aboriginal traditions such as living in the ‘long grass’ should gain access to aboriginal services and welfare payments because he has taken up aboriginality as his culture.

Ultimately there is a point where you need to define someone as a race if you are going to have racially discriminatory policies like ‘aboriginal only welfare’. Don’t get me wrong I agree with the need for this welfare but in having race defined policies, you need to define a race. Wishy washy terms of what aboriginality is doesn’t help because the policy will get scammed. The colour of ones skin is a defining feature of their race. It’s certainly not the only thing but it is a big part of it. To say so is not racist in itself unless you are using it as an offensive statement to define a stereotype. It would be racist to say that someone is a useless petrol sniffer purely because they are black but it is not racist to simply say that someone is black because their skin is a darker tone than yours.

Tron says:

11:29am | 27/01/12

@Fiasco,
If you believe in what you said, then surely you can justify the cronulla riots??? Same deal, a day that started out as a peaceful show of australian nationalism quickly got out of hand. Or do you only justify black riots??

Sheridan says:

07:26pm | 26/01/12

I can tell you what my husband has been saying for a long time.. If anyone asks about his aboriginality he’ll deny it every time.. Today made him more ashamed of it than the day the apology was on tv..

The Galah from Hervey Bay says:

09:49pm | 26/01/12

Reader…I am a Liberal member , white and very happy to support genuine indiginous folks in their efforts to better themselves in all aspects. You would further your people’s causes by removing the chip from your shoulder . I suggest you research the facts relating to genuine support extended in so many ways in Liberal philosophy both in and out of government.
Incidently , i wholeheartedly support your call for a real Indigenous Embassy , built with indigenous funding , without resorting to depend on a total handout from taxpayers. Such a plan would certainly attract subsidised federal funding.
The olive branch has been extended to your people to the point where where white patience is wearing thin . There is a section of your people who are determined never to accept the offer of peace.
No , you are not ” all bastards ” and we don’t all see it that way as you suggest. Your advice to those who shame their own people is correct . They should start helping themselves - meanwhile , trim your own attitude a little - you will find people will respond with respect.

Another Galah says:

10:48am | 27/01/12

Reader, my company offered apprenticeships to indigenous teenagers throughout NSW. It was an ideal opportunity to make themselves a career and a future. They weren’t offered to any other race/nationality. We worked closely with government-funded recruitment agencies.

Guess what ? Not one completed it. My trainee was even given free accommodation, and was offered every opportunity to succeed over a period of 6 months…yet at 19 he preferred the drink and his mates, rarely turned up to work on time (he never afforded us the courtesy of a phone call) and had no interest in learning. When he did turn up, he went “walkies” all the time during the day, irrespective of how busy we were. It was explained to me the “walkies” was cultural, to which we were to respect. Personally, though, it showed a complete lack of respect to myself, my colleagues and our work-place, a lack of care/concern for himself and others, and a lack of self-discipline and interest in securing a future for himself. Whilst I persisted to try and make it work for him, eventually the recruiting agency cancelled the traineeship.

If he wasn’t interested in securing his own future, why am I then generically “blamed” for his situation…when he was afforded every opportunity to succeed ? At what stage can I say, “enough is enough, grow up, get the chip off your shoulder and stop blaming everyone else for everything, stop sitting around waiting for hand-outs, and start to show some maturity to plan for your own future and act on it” ?

My life is my responsibility - it’s what I make of it. His life is his responsibility. If he didn’t want to make it succeed, that’s his fault, not mine. And it’s not something I’m to be ashamed of, nor will lose sleep over. He was offered every opportunity. He abused that opportunity.

I live by a simple premise. I afford respect to those that extend it to me. And I don’t care about race or color.

marley says:

07:29pm | 26/01/12

Protesters make all sorts of claims.  Were Abbott’s remarks actually incendiary? I don’t think so.  Was this Labour’s fault?  I don’t see why or how. 

I think this lies entirely at the door of the protesters.  They made a very bad call, they damaged the credibility of their protest, and they’re going to have to live with that.

thatmosis says:

07:34pm | 26/01/12

Tony Abbott was responding to a question from the media and said what the majority of Australians already think. I dont suppose you even have a thought yourself just relying on the spin and lies from your masters the Labor party but thats okay, we make allowances for people of your low intellect. Now take your meds and lie down like a good little girl. there, there.

Angry God of Townsville says:

09:36pm | 26/01/12

Viv, read Abbott’s actual comments before exposing your stupidity to the world.

James1 says:

09:59pm | 26/01/12

I’m wondering what acotrel has to say.

Chris L says:

11:16pm | 26/01/12

As serious as the situation was, when I reviewed what Abbott actually said I started laughing. Anyone interpreting that as inciting racial violence is trying way to hard to find something to be upset about.

GB says:

10:19am | 27/01/12

Pathetic cheap shot Viv. Did you actually read what Abbott said? Stop trying to score points out of something that was spot on. Accuse Abbott of a lot of things but being unsympathetic to the Aboriginal plight isnt one of them. Do you know what he does during his annual leave break, and has done without seeking any fanfare for countless years?

Liam says:

11:34am | 27/01/12

are you serious Viv, who’s the party that puts every single one of their stuff-ups on Abbots doorstep

Matt says:

08:27pm | 26/01/12

Since forever, sarah.

vi·o·lence (v-lns)
n.
1. Physical force exerted for the purpose of violating, damaging, or abusing: crimes of violence.
2. The act or an instance of violent action or behavior.

Screaming, shouting, and banging on windows is violent action, no matter how you look at it.

A Different Rosie says:

08:10am | 27/01/12

Despite all the ‘violence’  that took place yesterday, the only photo that I can find in the media, shows the Prime Minister being hustled through a crowd of one aboriginal man.

ben says:

09:38pm | 26/01/12

tell that to america.

section 44 of the Australian constitution ,  for Gillard, Rudd, howard, hawke, jkeating, beazly, infact you could possibly put the whole liberal labor party on notice… bob brown.. wow heres a guy who wants a plebicite.. thats treason right there.

and yet you feal sorry for these globalist fabian commies who lie to your face and steal your freedom and impose tax after tax…

wake up.

Gerard says:

09:36pm | 26/01/12

“I hope we see arrests soon.”

Did you actually have a charge in mind, or you just want to see these people locked up? In all the reporting, I am yet to see any reference to an actual crime being committed. There certainly didn’t appear to be any assaults or property damage taking place.

Nafe says:

08:07am | 27/01/12

Y2J, thats one bit that needs more reporting, Respect in the highest order for PM Gillard on the matter of seeking to ensure Abbott also got out safely.

I still think she is a bad PM but it was good to see a very human side her. This is the type of good PR the Prime minister needs and should show more of her human side, and not listen to her advisors as much.

Y2J says:

08:24am | 27/01/12

Threatening the PM and Opposition leader isn’t a crime? What planet are you on?

I believe in the rule of law as much I believe in non-violent protest. But I also believe in respect for our democracy. What happened yesterday crossed the line and amounted to an assault on our democratically elected leaders.

Do you think it appropriate that anyone with an axe to grind can physically threaten our PM or opposition leader? As it was the AFP were nearly overwhelmed by numbers. Do you really want to live in a country where our leaders can be beaten up by angry mobs?

Our leaders where threatened and assaulted ok luckily not badly assaulted because of the protection they had but that is entirely not the point.

An example must be made and the full force of the law brought to bear.

simonfromLakemba says:

07:22pm | 26/01/12

Theres some good videos of police punching people in the face for nor apparent reason and by the looks of it Julia didn’t have to be bundled away.

Bill says:

08:28pm | 26/01/12

Hey Simon - the Police did NOT punch anyone in the face. What you saw was a policeman pushing a moron away who was continually trying to approach the PMs car. Well deserved. The ACT Police have my heartfelt thanks and support in the way that they dealt with these violent activists.

I hate pies says:

08:28pm | 26/01/12

Simon, Ms Gillard is the Prime Minister of our country. The police will always do whatever they think is appropriate to mitigate any risk to her. History has proven time and time again that there are serious risks to the personal safety of those in positions of political leadership.
The prime ministers safety is always far more important than that of any protester.

SimonFromLakemba says:

10:41am | 27/01/12

Bill

Thanks for telling me what I saw, you must have some special powers!

Chris L says:

11:18pm | 26/01/12

Only if it’s against women.

Jin says:

10:13am | 27/01/12

Wow
you are the master of generalisations

Perhaps you should go back to Africa and educate their masses, we don’t want racists here.

Bear says:

07:02pm | 26/01/12

That was a lot crap wasn’t it Stephen!? “Ex elders” how does that happen?

stephen says:

07:23pm | 26/01/12

I know a few in Cairns.
Ask them a question - any question - and they will say ‘I do not know, and I do not want to say’.

That’s life Bear, and I’m not a mind-reader.

And I used to know them quite well.

Bertrand says:

07:40pm | 26/01/12

“I mean, they were here for 60,000 years and they had not even developed farming practices.”

That is a very ignorant view. Read some Jarrod Diamond.

People develop new technologies through trade, as it enables them to utilise new ideas and combine them with existing technology.

Due to the isolated island nature of this continent, Aboriginal Australians were essentially cut off from world trade and its associated technological developments for tens of thousands of years. Agriculture only arose in 3 or 4 places independently, but was able to spread to most areas of the world because the geography of those areas permitted it. Australia’s geographical location meant this wasn’t possible.

Also, Australia basically had no ‘farmable’ plants or animals. Name one Australian grain, vegetable or animal that is commonly farmed for food.
You can’t, can you? Because they don’t exist.

The ‘backwards’ nature of Aboriginal Australians wasn’t a result of them being biologically or intellectually inferior. It was little more than the unfortunate result of the isolated geography of Australia and the lack of choice of plants and animals available for farming practices.

People often say “they couldn’t even invent the wheel or writing” and think it stands as some type of evidence about the stupidity or technological conservatism of Aboriginal Australians.

Why were wheels and writing invented?
As a means of transporting and recording the goods produced in a society. If you have geographical limitations that inhibit your ability to develop agriculture, you have nothing in place to drive the invention of things like wheels and writing. Not to mention there are no native Australian animals that could pull a cart, making the wheel basically useless here anyway.

I’m so sick of this ‘the Aborigines were backward people with no ability to develop farming’ argument. Even if it were true it doesn’t justify what happened to them. These days we respect the right of uncontacted tribes to remain as they are, even if it means they miss out on modern technologies and the benefits they bring.

If we are going to criticise different peoples’ economic and technological systems, the fact is, in 1788 when Governor Phillip declared the colony of New South Wales, Aboriginal Australians had better life expectancies than most Europeans. As such, it is absurd to point to the ‘backwards’ nature of traditional indigenous society and use that to justify the tragedy that occurred when their people and culture were destroyed by European settlement.

Just to make sure I don’t get flamed for this comment, go back up the thread and read my comments about today’s events.

Skye says:

07:43pm | 26/01/12

@ Bear, maybe it’s a benjamin button type of thing, they are getting younger!

Bear says:

08:04pm | 26/01/12

OK Cairns, makes sense. You’ve passed the Bear test

stephen says:

08:23pm | 26/01/12

The farming stuff is true, and I haven’t read Diamond, though I have heard of him often enough, but the explanation for old cultures deformation is always geographical : that via trade and intelligent concourse, and plus because later, of war, that we were able to exchange everything because so many couldn’t, (This is in fact an economic proscript.)

I apologize, (for my 7 generations of ignorant antecedents) but neither I nor my relatives did anything wrong, and I refuse to feel guilty.

Matt says:

08:48pm | 26/01/12

Bertrand, where is the evidence of Aboriginals having longer life expectancies than Europeans please. I’d be interested to see your source for that assertion.

A general point I’d like to make is that you cannot judge the actions taken 200+ years ago by today’s standards. Just because we may not disturb uncontacted tribes now, doesn’t mean it was the norm then.

I have a sneaking suspicion though that if a landmass the size of Australia with its resources were to be found today as it was in 1788, it would still be colonized and modernised as a matter of course (with the inevitable conflict this would entail).

Bertrand says:

09:00pm | 26/01/12

@stephen - I completely agree about the guilt thing. I have 0% guilt about what happened to our indigenous Australians because I was no way involved in it. I am a first generation Australian - both of my parents migrated here in the 60s and I am the first person in my family to be born in Australia.

However, I do recognise that the dispossession that happened to our indigenous citizens didn’t just happen 220 years ago, it happened for a long time and happened until quite recent times (the last uncontacted family of indigenous people didn’t emerge until the 1980s, and many indigenous tribes were only found in the 1950s when we started surveying the South Australian desert in order to use it as a nuclear weapons testing range).

Likewise, I recognise that the impact of European settlement on indigenous Australians has echoes that are felt today. We can’t just look at our indigenous people as some type of inferior humans who are somehow innately unable to look after themselves and function effectively in a modern democracy/economy. There is a reason why the indigenous people of any nation that has experienced European settlement (Australia, Canada, America, New Zealand) suffer lower life outcomes.

What happened to the Aboriginal people of Australia is nothing short of horrifying. I feel for our indigenous people and want nothing more than for them be able to benefit from our current wealth.

It still does not excuse what happened today.

Andrew says:

09:18pm | 26/01/12

So Bertrand, do you honestly believe that if the poms didnt turn up, that australia would have been left alone and that aborigine people would still be here and be part of a thriving society. Its a prietty sure bet that the French or Dutch would have settled here and if you think they would have treated the natives of the time any better you need to check out the other colonies they occupied at that time and see how many natives were left alive.

Bertrand says:

09:23pm | 26/01/12

@Matt - I would love to supply you with a source, but unfortunately I can’t. All I can say is that my reference to life expectancies came from a textbook I have read regarding the pre-European indigenous economy. I read a lot (like a real lot, a couple of non-fiction books a week [and a few fiction books thrown in] a lot), and I can’t really attribute every statement I make to a source. I will say, however, that I am positive I read this in a reputable source. It could very well be Jarrod Diamond. Of course any source that asserts this claim about life expectancies s only going to be based on speculation.

If you don’t want to believe me about the life expectancy issue, that’s fair enough. I’m fully aware of the need to use referable sources in order to support one’s arguments. I will, however, draw your attention to things like the Irish famine, which occurred in the 19th century and led to innumerable infant deaths in Ireland and a very low life expectancy in that region.

But, the point of my original post on this part of the thread wasn’t to say that Aboriginal people should have been left alone in 1788 and should have been left that way. It is inconceivable to imagine a continent the size of Australia, and as rich in natural resources as Australia, to remain basically without settlement or production.

I was more just rallying against the idea that the circumstances of Aboriginal people in the 1700s was somehow a condemnation on them as a people and a justification for what happened to them.

Bertrand says:

09:45pm | 26/01/12

@Adam - no I don’t believe that at all. Read my comment before this one.

I’m fully aware that at some stage or another Aboriginal Australia would have been over-run.

I just have issues with people using their economic ‘backwardness’ to mount arguments that they are/were somehow an inferior people…. for example, the continued and absolute failure of 19th century Australian explorers to conquer the Australian outback speaks volumes for the Aboriginal people’s ability to survive on this continent.

All I was saying is you can’t blame some intrinsically negative element of Aboriginal people for their failure to develop things like agriculture, the wheel or writing.

Greg says:

10:32pm | 26/01/12

@Bertrand, your assertions are obvious nonsense.

Aboriginees were not isolated and cut off from trading, anymore than the tribes of Europe or Asia were. The tribes of Europe and Asia traded with neighbouring tribes (and invented the wheel) well before they developed inter-continental trading.

Aboriginal tribes had exactly the same opportunity. There were dozens of different Aboriginal tribes throughout Australia, and ample opportunities to develop new technologies through trade.

But they didn’t. None of them invented the wheel or a written language or a mathematical system. They built no roads, no permanent buildings, no towns or cities. They did not develop any technology beyond the stone age.

And they haven’t developed any new technologies since 1788 either, despite all of the extra contact with other civilisations since then.

As for farmable Australian food, the Macadamia nut is an example that immediately comes to mind, and a whole niche industry is developing the commercialisation of bush tucker food. So that proves your theories wrong.

And these alleged cultural “disadvantages” persist, no matter how much money, resources and affirmative action preferences are applied. It is because of nature, not nurture.

Finally, your assertion about the differences in life expectancies in 1788 is an outright lie. Anthropologic research has shown the typical lifespan of pre-1788 Aboriginees to be about 38 years, similar to other races during the stone age. The average male European lifespan in the late eighteenth century was about 59 years.

So not only have the lifespans of both races increased over the past two hundred years, but the gap between the races has also decreased. How are white people to blame for this improvement in the Aboriginal lifespan?

The fact is that Aboriginal culture has been immeasurably enriched by contact with European civilisation, despite offering very little in return.

Sam says:

10:37pm | 26/01/12

@Bertrand
Name one Australian grain, vegetable or animal that is commonly farmed for food.
You can’t, can you? Because they don’t exist.

The Quandong.
The Finger Lime.
Kangaroo.
Emu.
Crocodile.
Lemon Myrtle.
Macadamia.
Yams.

Bertrand says:

10:54pm | 26/01/12

@Andrew even… where did I get Adam from, I’ll never know.

Bertrand says:

06:11am | 27/01/12

Most of those are hunted as game, not farmed.

You can’t build an entire agricultural industry on macadmia nuts and a couple of fruits. Without a farm able grain hunting and gathering remains the better option.

@Greg - not nonsense at all. The geography theory is commonly accepted by anthropologists and historians.

Greg says:

11:15am | 27/01/12

Bertrand, nonsense is nonsense, no matter who believes it.

And that goes double for academics who are paid to comply with politically correct ideologies.

Bertrand says:

02:07pm | 27/01/12

@Greg - and ignorance is ignorance.

Which seems more plausible? A theory based on the examination of the origins of agricultural practices that arose in a few select areas (the Middle East, China, South America) and followed trade routes to spread this technology to other areas of the world (trade routes that did not stretch as far as Australia - an island continent geographically separated from the rest of the world, save for a few sea cucumber fisherman who began visiting from Indonesia about 500 years ago); a theory that examines the types of native plants and animals available in a region and assess their suitability for farming, and recognises that Australia has no native cereals that can be turned into crops, and no slow-moving, large herbivorous herd mammals that can be easily domesticated; a theory that recognises inventions occur when the need for them arises - writing and the wheel were invented in response to the demands of agricultural practices; a theory that understands how the development of agriculture also provided a way for economies to diversify and grow, as not everyone needed to apply themselves to the task of hunting and gathering food. It allowed people to get on with the task of building and creating advanced technology. This theory is built on research and evidence drawn from a wide range of academic and scientific disciplines.

Or, the alternative theory - indigenous people are somehow racially inferior to other races. This is a theory that says they are somehow innately so different that they don’t have the capability or intelligence to invent things. It is a theory based on flawed and disproven 19th century pseudo-science that ranks races on a hierarchical scale, with white people at the top and Aboriginal people at the bottom, just above monkeys. It is not supported by evidence but is based on prejudice.

I know which theory about why indigenous Australians were technologically backwards seems more likely to me.

Michael L says:

07:19pm | 26/01/12

This may be the dumbest post of all time.

‘Abbott just says what most people think and rightly or wrongly thats just the feeling of the general public.’
- Either you’ve been running national polls on this issue in your backyard or you’re too afraid to come out and own sharing the same opinion.

’ Gilliard is going to chuck this in his face as much as she can but like all her rants it will backfire, look at her pathetic face as she cowers in contrast TA striding out.’
- This is totally ridiculous and a real low and pretty pathetic insult, you try running in heels while APS are frogmarching you to safety.

‘I know who I would prefer in the trenches…’
- Again, simply a sad statement.

Libbie says:

07:57pm | 26/01/12

You are a disgraceful fool. The PM was the one who asked the police to look after Mr Abbott. What do you expect, her to be chuckling and joking? Moron. I don’t care what your politics are there are times that the stupid political stooges on this site should just shut up!

Y2J says:

08:08pm | 26/01/12

Gillard’s first thought when appraised of the danger was for the safety of Abbott.

I agree with Michael your comment is up there with one of the dumbest partisan posts I’ve had the misfortune of stumbling across on this site.

Hank says:

08:47pm | 26/01/12

Sorry jb but you have had a shocker.  I am no fan of Gillard and an open Lib supporter but that was a national disgrace.  Under no circumstances should any politician be put in that situation let alone our PM.  Those fools should have been dealt with a lot more sternly and should never have been allowed that close to our PM.

Gerard says:

10:00pm | 26/01/12

“Gillard’s first thought when appraised of the danger was for the safety of Abbott.”

No, Gillard’s first thought when told of the danger was the people viewing the footage of her that was being filmed. She gave the response that would be most palatable to the uncritical masses.

jb says:

10:11pm | 26/01/12

Wow, you giliard apologists astound me our indigenous brothers are coping a slapping on these pages yet all you care about is my lack of respect for a cowering liar. Happy Australia day labor boys… You all come from the same pot…

Pauline says:

10:16pm | 26/01/12

I cannot stand Gillard.  I have to turn off the radio or TV she is on as she simply makes my hackles rise everytime.  BUT.. it is ridiculous to judge her for looking scared.  Abbott, who I am a fan of, did take it more calmly but so what.  Lets not forget that Gillard showed great concern for Abbott at the time.  That to me is the first time since she entered politics that I have been impressed with her and thought she showed even the slightest hint of a positive personality trait.  It is killing me to defend her, but fair is fair and she deserves our credit, our concern and our sympathy for being put in a position where she feared for her safety - she does not deserve our scorn.  Save that for the protesters.

elhombre says:

11:14pm | 26/01/12

I’m 100% for the lying, back stabbing, incompetent fool gillard calling an election, but I’m not going to hold the fact that a middle aged woman was frightened in such a situation against her. I’m with Michael L, this is a pretty stupid statement.

Y2J says:

08:30am | 27/01/12

“No, Gillard’s first thought when told of the danger was the people viewing the footage of her that was being filmed. She gave the response that would be most palatable to the uncritical masses.”

Your opinion isn’t fact. The first thing Gillard said when appraised of the situation was something alone the lines of “What about Mr. Abbott?” That’s a fact.

You’re matching jb stride for stride with bias and stupidity.

Dumbness Contest. says:

09:50am | 27/01/12

Allow me nominate another for consideration.

    ” Angry God of Townsville says:
      09:36pm | 26/01/12
      Viv, read Abbott’s actual comments before exposing your stupidity to the world.”

Who exposed whom? It must be all the rain or is it too much Sun?

“Dumbest of ALL time” Michael L? Not inclined to moderation at all eh?

Gerard also just fell off his stool with conservative disgorgement.

People! People!

justin saying says:

10:20am | 27/01/12

“TA striding out”

The picture I saw, suggested he was trying to get airborne by flapping his big ears. Don’t know what picture you saw.

Rose says:

12:19pm | 27/01/12

Just quietly jb, I doubt whether Tony Abbott has ever expressed views that I could agree with. I find him to be a particularly mean-spirited ignorant hypocrite (on a good day). I found what he said yesterday to be unwise and inflammatory. I do not however agree with the behaviour of the activists who caused the whole ruckus.
Julia Gillard, by all accounts, behaved quite well, ensuring Abbott too was securely escorted out of the building. If you want to compare Abbott and Gillard’s behaviour as they left you might want to put Abbott in a movement restricting skirt and a pair of wedges, one of which then becomes lost.
If I were in the trenches,on yesterdays behaviour, I would choose Gillard, she at least was concerned with getting everybody out safe, even those who oppose her. That is far more admirable than being able to stand a little more upright during the event.

Sheridan says:

07:29pm | 26/01/12

The Spanish were pretty bad in the Americas too..

Realist says:

09:23pm | 26/01/12

Unfortunately, most of the discussion lacks historical context, England colonized Australia, if it had been the Dutch or others you mention the situation would have been much worse for the Aboriginals. The Romans colonized much of the world including England, should the English be bemoaning Roman colonization?. There is evidence that the Aboriginals competed with and wiped out an earlier race when they arrived from Asia. The current generation cannot be judged by the actions of distant ancestors be they right or wrong. The current generation of Aboriginals are not systemically discriminated against, the problems are mostly of their own making because they maintain a “black armband” view of history. Ongoing Government funding of this lifestyle choice only builds resentment in the wider community.

Andrew says:

09:27pm | 26/01/12

Exactly mate, but some people are so thick they believe the aborigines would still “own” australia if the English didnt come. They also dont seen to be able to realise that if the English didnt come then Australia wouldnt exist as Australia but would be called something else. Also none of us would proberly exist because everything would be completely different, and most of our lives would never have existed.

Ella says:

12:27pm | 27/01/12

If I find a wallet on the ground am I justified in stealing the money from it because if I don’t the next person who finds it will? Just because others are worse than us doesn’t justify our bad behaviour

Andrew says:

01:33pm | 27/01/12

How do you know the next person who finds it will steal it, how do you know they wont return it Ella there are still plenty of good samaritans out there. Noone is saying what happen 225 years ago was good, but wether you like it or not it was a different time, there was not one country in the world which was settled back then without wiping out or oppressing the natives, thats just the way the world was back then. Why are we paying for something out of our control.

darren says:

02:16pm | 28/01/12

And do not forget the attempted invasion by Japan. Remember the many people who had fought and died under the flag that these grubs burnt and spat on, To protect this country and give them the freedom to do what they did.  How better do the aborigines think their lives would have been? It is time that they stopped blaming everyone for thier problems and started taking responsibility.

Tom says:

07:27pm | 26/01/12

No he did not say it.

Kate says:

08:37pm | 26/01/12

oh you cant say something like that any more Robbo,  You will get nto trouble

Michael says:

10:24am | 27/01/12

Do we know that any of these ‘white skinned’ people don’t identify as being Aboriginal?  They all could have Aboriginal blood from 3 generations ago.  But I agree they should be treated like everyone else.

stephen says:

08:40pm | 26/01/12

The Elders know what to do, but certain youngsters from the city who have been influenced by political flowers like to get angry, send people to Canberra and cause a fuss to get media awareness and influence State Elections.

Aboriginies are not Political.
They are not interested in this stuff.

They need their own place, and they need our modern teachings to maintain a community, and be self sufficient.

bananabender says:

08:10pm | 26/01/12

There was no such thing as “aboriginal”  culture because pre-European Aborigines consisted of hundreds of different language groups with hundreds of totally different cultures and lifestyles.

The vast majority of aborigines didn’t even know what a didgeridoo was until the 20th century because it was only used in Arnhem Land. Dot painting was invented by a white teacher in the 1960s based on French pointillism. Welcome to country ceremonies were invented in he 1970s.

Andrew says:

08:43pm | 26/01/12

“Dying under the Anglo-Australian Culture”... What are you on about? Primary, high school and university education, jobs and media, we are forced to learn about the native culture. I find it interesting without a doubt. There are museums, libraries and much media dedicated to the aboriginal culture to which the government of Australia actually funds and takes an interest in. Countries will be conquered and have been for thousands of years, we should all move on together. We have moved on from violence and exclusion as other countries around the world are struggling with such as israel versus palastine. We treat them as equals if not far better than the majority of the population now.

The tent should go, it’s a part of the past of which Australia has moved on from in a positive way. I’m not sure why it is being held back and the people are holding onto the past.

Lets move on and all be friends of this wonderful nation.

Andrew says:

09:34pm | 26/01/12

So david, if the japs did take over australia in WWII do you think they would have recognized Aborigine heritage? Do you think they would have left the aborigines communitys alone. If they did take over, chances are there wouldnt be any actual true aborigines left alive.

David says:

10:10pm | 26/01/12

Andrew saying” “Dying under the Anglo-Australian Culture”... What are you on about? ”
was nicely answered by bananabender saying “There was no such thing as “aboriginal”  culture”

It’s that type of ignorance by bananabender thats killing Aboriginal Culture because some knuckleheads out there try to act like it never existed.

As for your statement about would there be any true aborigines left under a japan occupied Australia? Who knows. The whole point of my post was to ask, would you allow your culture to get assimilated or would you do what you can to keep the last remnants of it alive?

Andrew says:

10:24pm | 26/01/12

By the way if your vscenario did happen then there would be a large number of anglos and japanese alive that live through it or had there parents live through it. A big different to something that happen 225 years ago that everyone alive now had no control over whatsoever.

bananabender says:

11:25pm | 26/01/12

@David,
don’t distort my words with your lies.

I said that there were hundreds of different aboriginal cultures in prior to European settlement. Many of these aboriginal cultures considered other aboriginal cultures to be inferior to theirs.

The modern mainstream “Aboriginal” culture of corroboorees, didgeridoos, smoking ceremonies, rock paintings and ochre body paint is little more than a theatrical parody of a traditional culture unique to Arnhem Land.  It would have been completely alien to almost all the other Aborigines in Australia 200 years ago.

Aborigines didn’t have a common culture until they learned English and discovered nationalism from Europeans.

Michael says:

10:33am | 27/01/12

I’d get on with my life and live in the society I’m in, while celebrating my heritage in my own home - much like I do today.

Andy of Sydney says:

11:31am | 27/01/12

“Let’s roleplay here…”

The words of someone who cannot face reality. What complete BS. You can roleplay anything you want to, including some fanciful stuff like shooting lasers out of your eyes. Does that make it true? Absolutely not.

Bring FACTS to the table and you can have a decent conversation. And the fact is, Abbott didn’t say the tent embassy should go. He said it is no longer relevant, which is completely different. And absolutely true if the actions of the protestors are anything to go by. Luckily, we have people like Warren Mundine who are condemning that behaviour, and showing us that TRUE Aborigines are NOT violent, drooling, foaming-at-the-mouth crazies like what we saw during that incident. And at least half of the “protestors” weren’t even Aborigines. More like people who stepped on to the gravy train for the free ride!

Em says:

11:07am | 27/01/12

Thank you, Tom.

I think, when you push all the shite aside, this is what most Aussies want for the Aborigines.  Prove their worth as a culture worth preserving, because right now… there’s not a lot going for most of them.

OchreBunyip says:

11:58pm | 26/01/12

Apparently specifically mentioning in the preamble to our Constitution one culture among the many that make up modern Australia will end racism against that specific culture, improve their standard of living, create jobs for them in their towns, reduce the cycle of drugs and violence amongst their youth and ensure their children attend school. I’m not sure how exactly, but that is the pitch in a nutshell.

Sheridan says:

02:14pm | 29/01/12

Sounds like a load of bollocks that’d do jack shit in my opinion.. Why can’t they drag themselves up by the bootstraps and get on with living in the twenty first century??

Arnie says:

08:51pm | 26/01/12

Not really, the Aryan invaders from Europe split into several groups near the Urals Mountains in Ukraine(I think) and invaded Persia, Northern India, Western Europe etc. about 3000 BC. The Persians in India are the small parsee commuity and the Ismaili community, but they are far more prominent than their numbers suggest(rather like the jews) because they own India’s biggest businesses such as Tata, Godrej etc. In between there may have been invasions by Persian kings into India, but they are not the people who pushed Tamils and Southern Indian down to South India.

harry says:

03:51am | 27/01/12

That’s right David. You are a disgrace. Don’t you realise that Aborigines are special, that rule of law is for everyone else and that they should be allowed to do whatever they choose to do regardless of justification.

The scribblings of the left in the comments are very revealing. Self-loathing is in their DNA.

Vincent says:

12:23am | 28/01/12

to harry: yeah because giving the finger and throwing rose petals obviously are terrible crimes? How about you get your facts right before you spew your right wing propaganda? It’s the police officiers who should be charged for being violent. But there’s not a chance in the world you could grasp the concept of accountability. If the protesters had been loggers or miners, it would have been a lot more violent and degrading yet the media or the police response would have been much less nasty. Think about that, bigot.

Vivian says:

08:36pm | 26/01/12

Yeh. We get it. It was Abbotts fault. Is that you Albo? I stubbed my toe today doing the housework. Abbots fault. My girlfriend had an argument with her husband and I had her on the phone to me for 40 minutes in tears (again), clearly Abbotts fault. What else? There must be more.

What did Tony Abbott do to you today people?

elhombre says:

11:17pm | 26/01/12

I’ve got this nasty rash on my elbow and Abbot’s got some answering to do!

elhombre says:

11:20pm | 26/01/12

And the sack of Rome in 1527? That’s got Abbott’s grubby little fingerprints all over it! I was also going to ping him for the fall of Constantinople in 1453 but that would just be silly.

RyaN says:

08:10am | 27/01/12

This rain we are having, I personally blame it on Tony Abbott. I mean it all adds up really, our esteemed climate change minister Tim Flannery said we were going to be in permanent drought (now we know how many billions of dollars in desal plants that cost us) and now all this rain. Has to be Tony Abbott.

Chris L says:

10:58am | 27/01/12

It’s all on behalf of his masters in Kaos, the secret international organisation dedicated to domination and nastiness throughout the world!

Jasmine says:

03:48pm | 27/01/12

Um… all of them?

Zed says:

08:33pm | 26/01/12

ditto - tent embassy should be ripped down like it was anyone else infringinging on public or private property.

Bill says:

09:03pm | 26/01/12

We would have cleared out the protesters with justifiable force and returned public areas to the public. That’s why we lead the nation.

Greg says:

09:29pm | 26/01/12

What do you think would have happened if 200 KKK members protested in a similar way against Barack Obama?

They all would have been jailed for racial hate crimes, with the full support of the media.

SimonFromLakemba says:

10:48am | 27/01/12

Greg

Nice Obama reference which has nothing to do with anything. The KKK march every year without arrest.

http://www.rebelbrigadekkk.com/rally_events

desperate says:

09:40pm | 26/01/12

And I suppose your are an expert in handling security in these situations, all gleaned from watching the news….give me break!

Tom says:

08:09am | 27/01/12

Nice attempt at a diversion Chris.

However, if the protesters had not been shrieking and banging to intimidate the people inside, there would have been no need for the security guards to take protective action.

SimonFromLakemba says:

10:57am | 27/01/12

@Desperate

“And I suppose your are an expert in handling security in these situations, all gleaned from watching the news….give me break”

And somehow you are different?

@Tom

How was that a diversion?

“Just to be clear, I’m not supporting the protestors. But I think the PM’s security team were caught unawares and demonstrated they couldn’t plan their way out of a paper bag”

Seems perfectly clear to me. If that’s the best our guards can do , well god help me. Could you honestly imagine Obama’s security team dragging Obama along.?

Y2J says:

08:39am | 27/01/12

*Abbott

You’ve obviously thought about this lots.

Shane From Melbourne says:

09:54pm | 26/01/12

Australia is an asabiyah black hole.

Goobak says:

12:01pm | 27/01/12

You mean you want everyone to become goobaks like from south park. I’m sure it will happen soon enough.

Andrew says:

09:44pm | 26/01/12

Someone may be living in australia speaking indonesian, but it wouldnt be us, do you really believe everything would be the same except we would be speaking a different language. The fact is, if it wasnt for the english, we in Australia wouldnt exist, someone would but it wouldnt be us.

derek says:

10:53pm | 26/01/12

absolutely andrew…thats my point…and i have nothing against indonesians btw….was simply saying that the Australian continent wouldve been subject to some form of colonialisation regardless of 1788….to deny this and seek a recourse to “utopia” is to lose a grip on history and make the future untenable.

the ink is dry on what happened. no matter how often anyone says “sorry” it aint gunna change the facts as they are today. the danger is to perpetuate myths pertaining to a bogus history (on all sides) thereby jeapordising the now.

reconcilliation has to have a time limit. we cant atone for acts both evil and illconcieved infintum.

we must move fwd now and i think if some in society (off all colours) accepted this fact we could have a far better route in front of us.

Chris says:

10:50am | 27/01/12

I suspect Mr Abbott wouldn’t have minded leading the way, being an ex-boxer.

David says:

10:13pm | 26/01/12

The guy said their main source of cultural power which is the tent embassy should be gotten rid of. It’s like saying to the Americans that they should get rid of the Statue of Liberty

SD says:

10:38pm | 26/01/12

You’re sound like that old relic that calls Chris Smith all the time to blame EVERYTHING wrong in the world on ‘the left’. NO, you are wrong!! Sometimes you just have to get over your irrationality and recognise that wrong is solely the blame of the wrongdoer!! Twit

Aussie Battler says:

10:50pm | 26/01/12

@ David - He did not say “it should be gotten rid of”,.  The comment from earlier in the day - Mr Abbott said he understood why the tent embassy was set up “all those years ago”.
“I think a lot has changed for the better since then,” he said.
“I think the indigenous people of Australia can be very proud of the respect in which they are held by every Australian.

“I think a lot has changed since then, and I think it probably is time to move on from that.”

Abbott sad the Aboriginal People should move on. Please show me where the Opposition Leader said “it had to be gotten rid of”.  I think what he said was respectful to the Aboriginal People.  It was the protesters and their organiser’s like Michael Anderson who appear to have deliberately incited violence to try and make their case.  Unfortunately I think this will backfire on them. When you read various forums, most posters appear to have now lost respect for what the “Embassy” originally stood for.

Bear says:

11:08pm | 26/01/12

I doubt there is a single problem in the world that you don’t blame on the ‘progressive left’ Rosemary.

Andrew says:

01:18am | 27/01/12

Wow David, you compare a tent embassy to the statue of liberty.

Wayne Kerr says:

09:49am | 27/01/12

“Happy Invasion Day”

Yep Stacy, White Man won, Aborigines Lost.  Thanks for coming

Chris L says:

11:31am | 27/01/12

A successful invasion of a continent the size of Australia using a couple hundred troops and free settlers. Either the defenders were pretty hopeless or they just didn’t care that much…. or it was not an invasion.

liz says:

01:55pm | 27/01/12

Stacy,

You are aware that the red, black and yellow flag is not at all representative of indigenous Torres Strait Islanders. I for one would feel horrified to have the Aboriginal flag as a (not so apparent) symbol of me and my heritage.  I am proud of my heritage both indigenous and european. Some of my ancestors were afterall convicts, sentenced to imprisonment in a harsh foreign land for stealing bread and I don’t think they would have used the term invasion, do you?
I am indigenous, I follow the traditions of my fathers, I am a migrant, I am a convict, I am young Australian and I am old and I have a long connection with this land. I am married, with a child, to a beautiful man who was born and raised in south east Asia (and has his own story to tell of british colonisation). Together we follow a beautiful, hard and well beaten path forged by the many Australians before us. I am proud of this golden history, of who we are and how far we have come.

So, I say to you and all Australians.

Happy Australia Day!

Chris L says:

12:53am | 28/01/12

@Liz - you rock!

Michael says:

11:05am | 27/01/12

Sounds like most of the people who have posted here have acknowledged Australia’s dark history.  Can we move on now?

marley says:

08:13am | 27/01/12

Probably the most important breakthrough in the last 50 years was the Mabo decision, made in a court of law.  What has the tent embassy achieved?  By all means, organize, lobby the government, use the courts.  That’s where progress will be made.  Not at the tent embassy.

Rebecca says:

08:25am | 27/01/12

Agree. Get over it. It has happened everywhere over the world for centuries. Take the modern opportunities offered, work hard and get ahead. Stop whinging.

steiner says:

09:09am | 27/01/12

Rodney and Rebecca,
You seem to be arguing for the Jewish people to just ‘move on’ from world war 2, and not worry about all their loot in Swiss bank vaults.
Or perhaps Cubans should just ‘move on’ from wanting their private property rights in Havana.
Aboriginal people are entitled to private property rights.  It’s a point you don’t seem to understand.

Al says:

02:23pm | 27/01/12

Steiner - Only one problem with your point of view.
Aboriginal people did not own property, it was ‘owned’ by everyone and as such their are no ‘private property rights’ (as it was all public property).

Are Aboriginals now denied private property rights? No, they like anyone else can own property. They however also have no special claim on said public property.

steiner says:

04:04pm | 27/01/12

Al - pathetic.
Is this your excuse for the continuing dispossession?

Rebecca says:

08:44am | 27/01/12

There are people all over the world who have suffered invasion and suffering. But most move on. Look at Sarkozy (France)and Merkel (Germany) for instance. They are prepared to put WW1/ WW2 etc behind them and try to work together for the greater good of the EU and the really the whole world economy. No not always a cosy relationship, but they try at least.
Get over it, regard it as history that we can all learn from, and stop acting like spoiled children that have been given too much to compensate for perceived wrongs.

PD says:

09:05am | 27/01/12

Didn’t a certain conservative opinion writer just get hauled through the courts for making a very similar observation?

Also, McMurtie this morning claimed that he and a few others just wanted the PM to invite them to lunch, and that the protestors weren’t any of his mob.  Of course they weren’t mate, they just came from a dress up party…

marley says:

10:04am | 27/01/12

Well, the ABC says the protesters chased the cars down the road pounding on the doors and roofs.  That sounds like a bit more than “jeering” to me.  ANd they were certainly pounding on the glass walls of the restaurant.  Also a bit more than jeering.

Mallory says:

10:40am | 27/01/12

The Dutch didn’t do such a good job eradicating (irradicating) the Indonesians, did they Steve.
The British were much better irradicators.

Michael says:

11:21am | 27/01/12

Let’s see the PM in her Speedos, eh Andy?

Matt says:

10:47am | 27/01/12

Source besides your own opinion?

PD says:

09:08am | 27/01/12

That’s funny. 

When asked this morning if McMurtie (tent embassy spokesman) would apologise to the PM, the emergency services personnel et al for the disruption to their ceremony, his response was:

“No, I won’t, I didn’t do it personally, why should I apologise?”

Michael says:

11:24am | 27/01/12

Are you suggesting it is civilized?

Blackadder says:

03:30pm | 27/01/12

@Fredz

I guess you have no comprehension of what the world was like over 200 years ago.

Rest assured, my friend, there was no Facebook, no YouTube, no computers, no iphones. It was a time where the politics and Governments of the time were a little bit different back then. Not every nation hugged each other at a conference and pledged world peace, or to save the whales, or to not eat GM modified food, or to not wear fur etc.

It was likely they were at war with each other, slaughtering whales, eating whatever they could forage/cultivate and happily used fur for clothing and bedding. On the plus side, PETA activists and the like would have been strung up…

And there was this little thing called “colonisation” that many nations were undertaking to expand their empires, if not trade routes.

Look up the difference between a Pirate and a Privateer…by definition alone, it shows you the co-operation between leading nations at the time.

I don’t think too many leaders of the time sat back and thought “hmmm, in hundreds of years people might be a little bit cranky at what we’re doing, so let’s not invade <insert country> with our Army”.

History actually makes fascinating reading. You really should try it some time.

But then, I guess you’re the sort of person that watches garbage like “Rabbit Proof Fence” and takes it as gospel, in a misguided view you’re an expert on the subject.

I’d happily say it’s time to “build a bridge, get over it and move forward”, but the last one I remember was the Hindmarsh Bridge…and that had too much secret women’s business for anyone to get over !

Michael says:

11:26am | 27/01/12

So now they’re even?

Matt says:

10:13am | 27/01/12

They also get free higher infant mortality, were ‘freely’ allowed not to vote until the late 60’s and also get free ignorance from people like you. EVERYTHING this country has produced and achieved since colonisation/invasion has taken place on stolen land for the benefit of Europeans. Since the Mabo decision how claims to land have been processed and approved? Not many at all. Its called EQUITY, not equality, there is a difference. Go read a book Pauline Hansonite.

Andrew says:

01:46pm | 27/01/12

And what would have happen if the English didnt settle here Matt. It is what it is, they need to make the best of it move on and stop living in the past, just like a lot larger percentage of this generation of aborigines are doing. By the way Matt who did the aborigines steal the land from, there is plenty of evidence that there were people living here before the aborigines, how much did the aborigines pay them for the land, and how many did they leave alive.

JB says:

10:28am | 27/01/12

What “Indigenous day” should we celebrate, Gorg day, Centerlink day, Get a job day, oh my bad that will never happen. Aboriginals break the law more then 10 times then non-Indigenous so they have no repspect for our culture so why would we respect their? Seriously mate, so sound like a member of the KKK but instead of hating blacks you hate whites!!!

Liam says:

11:03am | 27/01/12

ummm, pretty sure it was Socialism/Communism and Facism/Nationalism that allowed those 2 to achieve power…

Andrew says:

01:58pm | 27/01/12

Yeah Jay, what a terrible person. How dare Bolt want every person to be treated equally no matter what there skin colour. Wether you like it or not, australia as it is today would not exist if the Poms didnt settle here and the people here now wouldnt exist so why shouldnt we celebrate the days you talk about. Your so quick to put down the european lifestyle etc but at the same time your more then happy to take advantage of the benefits of that european lifestyle i.e the computer your writingb this on

Wayne Kerr says:

10:26am | 27/01/12

I’m guessing you’re a troll but in the event you’re not;

“I for one will never support reconciliation with the white australian that pollutes this country” Yes but you’ll happily accept any Government handouts from this white australian pollutant.

I just love the hypocracy.

Blaming the Whites says:

10:33am | 27/01/12

Most whites don’t want reconciliation, we want them to move on and stop living in the past and actually prove to society that they belong and are not just here for the hand outs at tax payer expense. Also the aboriginals are killing themselves with booze and drugs, but they blame us whites for there current poor health and living conditions.

JB says:

10:41am | 27/01/12

But you happily use the products of these “white Australian” You are the biggest racist of all! Clearly you are happy living in the past getting you Centrelink payments and never having to work. Are you aware that you are using a “white Australian” product called a computer, but you are happy consuming the “White man’s” products. So really your a racist and a hypocrite!!!!!

Disgraceful says:

07:01pm | 27/01/12

Farrakhan, I’m sorry you feel that way. Without supporting reconcilation you only harm yourself and your community by perpetuating mindless hatred. To the commenters below, I’m sorry but your remarks also smack of hatred and re-enforce Farrakhan view of you as bigots. It makes me terribly sad that all of you, black and white, as so sick with racism. I’m all for equitable treatment and it’s time to get rid of these disgusting thoughts we have about each other.

Bertrand says:

10:31am | 27/01/12

Wow. Just wow.

Put them in a zoo.

Rick of the Dustbowl says:

11:09am | 27/01/12

But that’s the point. Maybe they don’t want to go to school or buy shit in shop’s like the white man, or live in four walls or pay tax but if they do that’s ok. Just don’t put these people in the stereotypical box their just as individual as you.

Zopo says:

11:57am | 27/01/12

I agree but you need to develop an infrastructure to help you survive, dont want to work in shops and live in four walls that’s fine, but there are also laws to abide by and others around who must be respected as well.

I just think we definitely cant get it right, so what do the aboriginal people need to make it right for all of us and so we can move forward? This is what I dont understand.

JB says:

10:47am | 27/01/12

Clearly yiou believe in freedom of speech. Oh course they must agre with you to be able to speak.  Your a hypocrite!!!! You enjoy the right to free speech but would deny it to others if they don’t agree with you.

peter says:

11:00am | 27/01/12

so why did you read this ??? having the permanent name”” disgusted “”“shows there’s nothing you like,  of course unless its the centre link cheque or the next protest meeting

Chris says:

11:20am | 27/01/12

So why did you not refrain this time? Maybe you’re looking to get offended, much like the majority of these protesters.

Disgusted says:

01:45pm | 29/01/12

I don’t deny anyone the right to free speech JB but there is a marked difference between speaking freely and being overtly racist. I don’t buy the free speech argument that bigots such as your self utilize to justify racial discrimination.
Thanks Peter for your succinct psychoanalysis - I feel deeply enlightened by your amazing ability to reflect on what I feel and my employment status after reading my comment.
Chris your spot I on I wish I had refrained from reading this drivel.

Nyx says:

03:14pm | 27/01/12

So they want justice and a better standard of living from the government? Justice for what exactly? And how should this ‘justice’ be given?

And as for a better standard of living, what exactly more can the government do, clearly billions of dollars of money and assistance, and specialised treatments and programs isn’t working, so what do you suggest? Perhaps its time that people stopped treating the aboriginal people as poor helpless victims, and started treating them as people. This perpetuated ‘victim mentality’ does no one any favours. You may think your ‘helping’ their cause, but what your doing is convincing them (and everyone else) that they are somehow lesser, and that they should continue to cling to the events of the past that cannot be changed.

If the aboriginal people are concerned about the standard of living amongst their communities, how about they get off their ass and do something about it. Educate themselves and their children about the dangers of alcohol and drug abuse. Be prepared to do something about the horrific rates of aboriginal people committing crimes. Be prepared to stand up and do something about the rampant violence and sexual abuse commited BY aboriginals to other aboriginals. Be prepared to stand up and be worthy of respect.

They’re not lesser, they’re not children, they’re not special delicate flowers and they’re not victims. They’re people, same as you and me. Its time for the tent embassy to go. Its time for the hand-wringing, excuses-making, same-but-different, equal-but-not-equal crap to go.

JB says:

10:43am | 27/01/12

Not in this lifetime sport! BTW Australia is ALREADY a member of the U.N, DOH!!!!

George says:

11:23am | 27/01/12

that when Australia applys to be member of U.N?? 
We already are, you nuter

marley says:

11:35am | 27/01/12

Did you see the footage of the mob pounding on the glass walls of the restaurant before the police linked arms to push them away?

Andrew says:

02:09pm | 27/01/12

Believe me there isnt a chance in hell the bodyguard wanted to cop a feel of Gillard, I imagine hes now on sick leave having nightmares about touching her, Im not surprise hes willing to take a bullet for her, I would rather take the bullet as well if the other option was “copping a feel”

Andrew says:

02:11pm | 27/01/12

Its there land, who did they buy it off?

Sam says:

11:33am | 27/01/12

You cant fix Indigenous poverty, and when people understand this the better it will be. These people choose to live out in the middle of nowhere, they are not forced. We hear aboriginals continuously moan about losing their old ways, well are not these remote communities the OLD WAYS ?? Are they not living like they used to?

Indigenous poverty is a myth, they had nothing 200 years ago, and today if they choose to live that way we then they are now classed as poverty stricken.

So it looks like they want to live the lifestyle they choose , in the place of their choosing, but the rest of us are supposed to pick up the bill and feel guilty for some reason. OK, if they want to live their old ways then they have to expect a lower life expectency , no education, and a low standard of living, otherwise accept what modern Australia has to offer, live in an area that has infrastructure, and stop complaining.

dobbieb says:

12:28pm | 27/01/12

I wonder where the other Aboriginal leaders are at this time who want us to vote for a Constitutional change when there is currently a cotery of of dissidents in Canberra creating problems. Surely the former can go to Canberra , discuss the problem of the Tent Embassy with its inhabitants and assist in its demolition disposition. Don’t think I’ll hold my breath.

JB says:

01:04pm | 27/01/12

You are the poster girl that these others should be aspiring to emulate. Unfortunately when things like this happen is doe tend to bring out the worst in people, but equally the protestors actions were representable. They are the one that identify themselves as Aboriginals and drag the respectable hard working Aborigines down with them. Race aside, if they didn’t keep bringing up he race card and making Australia look like a nation of racists which these protestors and their ilk do they would have been jailed long ago, however if they were jailed for breaking the law they would then claim that they are political prisoners. What is the purpose of the tent embassy?
Yes we celebrate the Queens Birthday and St Pat’s day, but those celebrations don’t require a specific place to be maintained. When a few words such it might be time to move on evokes such a violent reaction the people protesting for be looked at. I have been abused and called “Whity” by Aboriginals and if i complained to police nothing is done. If i called them “Blacky” I would be charged and labeled a racist. Until both side decide to move forward from the past, look past skin colour and become protective member of society nothing will every change. The past is the past and not in our future. Remember but don’t dwell on it and keep using it as emotional blackmail against people who weren’t even alive when it all happened.

Margaret says:

12:58pm | 28/01/12

FFS how many bridges do white, working Australians have to build before we are “forgiven” for something we had nothing to do with ... I have stolen no land from anyone, I have stolen no children from anyone but yet I am still held accountable for things I had nothing to do with ... I have had enough ... I am not saying sorry anymore ... get off your butt and work for what you want; I’ve had to and so do plenty of others. You can’t keep using the victim/race card.

peter says:

08:17pm | 27/01/12

ha ha a schoolteacher for sure , bet it believes in global warming as well

Margaret says:

11:39am | 28/01/12

The only sham I have seen in this whole sorry debacle is that being perpetrated upon white, working, taxpaying Australians.
There was no disgrace shown by our elected leader and the leader of the opposition ... disgrace was shown, but not by them ...

Edward says:

03:03pm | 28/01/12

“Sorry isn’t enough - until the day to day injustices and inequalities suffered by these people are addressed properly…”

Ok, so how do you propose we rectify these past injustices and inequalities? As I said, Aborigines have already received land rights, recognition as the “first peoples” of Australia, and generous handouts making them the most heavily subsidised ethnic group on the planet. What else do they actually want? Every non-indigenous person to immediately leave Australia? Do they want Australia purged of all European influence and set aside as a vast anthropological zoo so that they can return to their old, Stone Age-like way of life?

The problem, as far as I see it, is the unwillingness of Aboriginal activists to accept that Australia was colonised over 200 years ago and that such colonisation of Australia was inevitable, if not by the British then by a different power. They also seem unwilling to give up the perennial victim status and unwilling to come to terms with the fact that their experience is hardly unique given that every country on the planet has undergone conquest and colonisation by different peoples at some stage. In truth, their suffering has been minor compared to the hardships inflicted on other peoples elsewhere in the world.

Disgusted says:

01:49pm | 29/01/12

Igrenaut I salute you! Thank goodness there are a few sane people commenting