Jesus motherloving Christ. If Alan Joyce is making a late bid for Twat of the Year 2011, then he’s eating daylight on his competitors. On Saturday the Qantas CEO shut down worldwide operations of one of the planet’s biggest airlines, in an over-reaction that made King Lear look pretty chill.

There's no one I'd rather have at the controls than a Qantas pilot

Like one of those seasoned chooks you get all ready for roasting, some things come pre-satirised. On Friday, Joyce asked shareholders at Qantas’ annual general meeting to give him a pay rise of 71 per cent, from under $3 million a year to about $5 million. They did. The next day, he shut down their company entirely, because of the “extreme demands” of workers. First prize, Alan. Believe.

Where unions have to give 72 hours notice of any action, Joyce gave zero hours. He stranded 68,000 people worldwide, upended the plans of tens of thousands more, and lost an unquantifiable number of future bookings.

And why? To force an advantage in an industrial dispute that was nowhere near crisis point. To stand on a milk crate in a pissing contest. And he got just the elevation he was after. An emergency sitting of the Fair Work Australia tribunal handed down its orders at about 2.30 this morning, terminating all Qantas industrial action – both the grounding and any strikes by unions. This was just what Qantas counsel had campaigned for from minute one of the hearing.

Planes could be up as early as this afternoon. But the scope of cancellations to date has already seen foreign leaders miss connections home from CHOGM. It will leave a huge dent in the Spring Racing Carnival, one of Victoria’s biggest weeks for tourism. 300 remote area doctors were stuck in Alice Springs with no way to reach their patients. And it happened to be smack bang in the middle of what is for many people a five-day weekend.

From all appearances, Joyce timed it to cause as much damage and disruption as possible.  He gave no warning. He knew the chaos his airline could cause, and how much pressure it would place on the government. “Qantas apologise for any inconvenience caused” should be met with a hiss. The amount of inconvenience caused has been maximised.

Imagine for a second that unions had shut down the airline without a minute’s forewarning. There would be calls for them to be criminally liable. For them to be disbanded. The Opposition would be tearing into the government tooth and claw.

Joyce wants to blame unions regardless, but it won’t save his reputation, nor that of Qantas. In his media blitz yesterday, as repercussions manifested in the form of stressed, worn, and teary passengers, Joyce was standing among the wreckage of the company he’s supposed to run, congratulating himself on his “bold decision”. Here was a man who wanted to get rid of the possums in his roof, so called in a napalm strike.

The reek of ego, rutting in the streets and smearing its musk on mailboxes, is the inescapable odour wafting through Melbourne’s streets in these quiet hours before dawn. From his comments on Sunday, Joyce was tired of negotiating. Manufacturing a crisis gave him a chance to skip it. He clearly believes the FWA intervention will get his preferred result.

Qantas and the three unions in question now have three weeks to reach agreement before having one imposed on them by FWA. But with Joyce’s muscle-flex having demonstrated just how firmly he can twist the national arm behind its back, the odds for something favouring Qantas management look good.

But the most offensive thing isn’t disruption. These things happen, sometimes for the best of reasons. For mine, the offensive thing is Joyce’s level of spin. Yes, a part of Spring Carnival is the unmistakable tang of horseshit in the air. It’s just not usually contingent on a Qantas CEO opening his mouth.

For starters, Joyce lumps all three unions together: those of the engineers (ALAEA), the baggage handlers (TWU), and the long-haul pilots (AIPA). He tries to claim they have forced this decision, with rolling strikes in recent months costing $68 million, and an unsustainable wage demand.

Yet the pilots’ association has made no pay claim, nor taken any strike action. Their campaign, completely separate to those of the other unions, is about insisting that Qantas-trained pilots are used to fly Qantas-branded planes, rather than using cheaper offshore replacements.

In AIPA’s first industrial action in 44 years, the extent of the campaign has been to wear red ties bearing a slogan, and to mention the campaign in their pre-flight announcements. They haven’t delayed a single flight to date.

As for the rest of the strike, the TWU has recorded just six hours of industrial action in the past eight months. And according to the Daily Telegraph, a full month of industrial action by engineers in September still saw Qantas cancel fewer flights than the unaffected Jetstar.

I interviewed a Qantas domestic pilot on Saturday evening, who unsurprisingly asked not to be named. He claims limited industrial action can even suit management. “It gives the airline a chance to cancel whichever flights they want. Airlines cancel flights all the time for various reasons, like if a flight’s not full enough. It gives them a nice excuse to hand out to the public.”

No wonder everyone was blindsided. Action was still relatively minor. Qantas had not even suggested government mediation, the logical step when negotiations aren’t going well. It appears that Joyce decided he didn’t want to participate.

And where his magical $68 million loss comes from is as mysterious as Joyce’s other accounting. According to Joyce yesterday, his pay rise wasn’t really a pay rise. According to Joyce a few months back, 1000 Qantas jobs would be lost offshore. According to Joyce this weekend, that number was zero. As my pilot interviewee said, “He’s a mathematician, but he hasn’t done anything to show that he has the qualifications.”

Of course, it’s the offshore threat that is the sticking point in negotiations, with unions wanting some guarantee this won’t happen. Joyce’s plans are for exactly that to happen.

You can see the model with Qantas’ New Zealand routes: planes with Qantas flight numbers, Qantas paintwork, and Qantas uniforms, but staffed entirely by New Zealanders employed by a Qantas front called Jetconnect. The difference? Staff cost 40 per cent less, receiving NZ dollars on an NZ pay scale.

You can extrapolate, then, what Joyce’s plans for a large Qantas subsidiary based in Asia would mean. If you think the exchange rate is good in Auckland, try Kuala Lumpur. Try Bangkok. Jetstar, which Joyce used to run, is already using Thai crew, who cost a couple of hundred bucks a month. An Australian would earn that in a day.

No wonder they quietly withdrew that John Travolta safety video. “There’s no-one I’d rather have at the controls than a Qantas pilot,” said John. Union scum.

In grounding the fleet with no warning, Joyce and his board showed utter disregard for their employees, their shareholders, and their public. Even a couple of days’ notice would have ameliorated the consequences.

Truly remarkable, isn’t it, that it didn’t occur to Joyce to mention the prospect at the AGM. As the Financial Review’s Marcus Priest wrote, “There will be some interesting questions of corporate disclosure and directors’ duties to be explored in any subsequent legal proceedings.”

But this is where his other great dance begins: regarding premeditation.

There are varying reports on the exact timeline of the lockout decision. While the announcement itself came as a shock, it now seems as though it had been in the pipeline for a while.

Pilot union vice-president Richard Woodward says Qantas were booking thousands of hotel rooms days or even weeks ago to accommodate stranded passengers. At Saturday night’s initial FWA hearing, counsel for the APIA and the TWU requested documents which showed the pre-existence of plans. Qantas, surprisingly, opposed the move. Nothing to hide…

Counsel for Qantas Frank Parry also complained that in potentially being ordered to continue negotiations, “Qantas has been dragged in here at short notice and been presented with an untenable alternative”.

Short notice? You want short notice, talk to the people whose planes were recalled as they were taxiing to the runway. Ask the woman rushing to see her father before he died. The only party with any notice was Qantas – as much notice as they liked, since it was up to them to pick the date.

The denials, in the end, are impossibly juvenile. We’ve got a kid arm-deep in the cookie jar while querying the existence of baked goods. This is the way of Joyce’s regime. Just listen to his Inside Business interview with Alan Kohler – every single answer starts with a refutation. Everything is justified. Poor brave Alan made the difficult decision. That’s why they pay him the big bucks. And if you want a culprit, those bloody unions are to blame.

Of course, those of a certain view will always find a way to blame unions. The unions faked the moon landings. The unions gave me herpes. Union dingoes took my baby. The unions are the reason my kids hate me and my wife never quite looks me in the eye anymore.

It’s all their fault. Oh, and sorry, for punching you in the face repeatedly, but I couldn’t solve the crossword this morning, so, take it up with The Times.

Even the great Americain can’t match the size of these Joycean steamers. A company which has not even asked for arbitration can’t suddenly claim last resort. A guy who initiates crisis can’t deflect responsibility.

“They are trashing our strategy and our brand. They must decide just how badly they want to hurt Qantas, their members… and the travelling public.” Said the man who shut down the airline. Said the man who fisted every customer for his own tactical advantage. Said the man who made headlines in papers round the world for the worst possible reason.

See? The bloke must have a beef with workers. He’s trying to put satirists out of a job as well.

243 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • buy bystolic online says:

      02:07pm | 29/02/12

      And effects, a with towards one size three ten seven feet can. For is such important or better.

    • James says:

      07:07pm | 02/11/11

      Thanks for a well written article.

    • Cate says:

      02:47pm | 02/11/11

      CAN EVERYONE READ “THE MEN WHO KILLED QANTAS”  PLEASE I BEG YOU.
      By the way I do not like the Government and I do not like the Qantas Board.  They are both deceiptful.  What does this mean.  It means there are grey areas.
      Do two negatives make a positive? Yes get rid of the Qantas board and get rid of the Government.  The best outcome I can think of. Whew!! That was hard.

    • Wally says:

      06:19pm | 01/11/11

      Joyce you and the rest of the people that believe this is the way to lead a company…....just disgusting….....just look at the incredible respect the man who should have the job has generated over in Virgin! Start getting the trust of your employees and they will follow you. Bash them at your peril!

    • Cate says:

      02:21pm | 02/11/11

      Spot on Wally.  Sir Richard Branson knows how to get the most out his employees.  He treats them with respect and dignity and applauds everyones efforts from the ground up to the top.  They are paid well and respect their CEO.  Isn’t it wonderful what you can achieve without bullying your staff and treating them as if they are disposable commodities or articles to throw about at whim.
      Management today needs to learn that just because you are the boss, it does not give you the right to demoralise and belittle those who are working for you. Without the people working for you, you have no credibility nor do you have a business.
      Respect of human beings needs to re-enter the workforce.
      Kerri Packer was brash and rude, but he treated all his employess equally and with concern and thankfulness.  Criticism was taken in good spirit. Forgotten and the job was got on with.  No bully tactics required.  Just fair safe and secure working conditions.  Mind you.  If someone wasn’t performing he knew about it.  He knew about everything that was happening under his watch.  People who didn’t pull their weight were gone. No fuss but a full explanation and a generous termination payout.  He also looked out for all former employees and if anyone needed help, he was there.  Australia misses you Kerri.

    • Lex Rogers says:

      01:43pm | 01/11/11

      Alan Joyce doesn’t care what anyone thinks, he couldn’t give a rats arse.

      He grounded the airline.

      That says, go f*ck yourselves to everyone…including everyone writing comments here.

    • Gerry says:

      10:35am | 01/11/11

      Mr Joyce your end as CEO is nigh

    • Kanga says:

      10:32am | 01/11/11

      Customer Service staff who are not involved in this dispute are devastated by this weekends events, and the disruption over the last few weeks as they are the ones cleaning up the mess caused every day by the other kids in the playground. It is a difficult situation with many divided in their opinions as to who is right, CEO or Union? The fact is workers do not want to see the Asianisation of their airline, yet understand this is probably the future. Unfortunately, over the last 18 months, It is increasingly difficult to give good customer service as money seems to take precedence over service these days, and this frustrates workers. To insinuate that staff would lose bags on purpose and delay flights is deeply offensive as staff work their asses of for this airline with very little thanks or resources by management. If it wasn’t for the customer service ground staff, who get paid the least, there would be no airline.

    • Cassie says:

      09:45am | 01/11/11

      I would just like to have a say for the thousands of other Qantas employees. We are sick and tired of all the strikes and disruptions. The game playing of cancelling a strike an hour before after we have worked so hard to minimize impact to our passengers. The media is is focusing on the unions what about the rest of us? We love our jobs, love Qantas know we get paid well yet at the end of the day we will lose our jobs. Maybe ask the pilots when their last redundancy was?? The unions need a reality check.

    • Kayte says:

      12:00pm | 01/11/11

      Which airline do you work for - it must be Qantas in a parallel universe, or are you in management spinning the company line in return for a bonus. There is no workforce anywhere more disengaged or more disgusted with the path their CEO and board have chosen. There will be no job for you when they have finished - you will be discarded like garbage when you are deemed to be no longer useful i.e. your job has been offshored. They have as much respect and concern for you as they demonstrated for their customers on Saturday. This CEO regards all staff to be an expensive liability instead of a valuable asset - you included.

    • Fat Andy says:

      09:08am | 01/11/11

      I think this article could hardly be improved upon, except perhaps in that it fails to mention much of the media’s duplicity in helping Joyce out with the dissemination of his gaspingly ridiculous spin, and has again used the situation as an opportunity to bash Labor and unions in general.

      Are Australian media consumers so comfortable with being treated as if they have no faculties of discernment, that they have become avid consumers of steaming horse sh!t?

    • OchreBunyip says:

      07:26am | 01/11/11

      If a workforce can withdraw their labour, why can’t the CEO of a company withdraw work? I think what really worries the unions is this time they were outmanoeuvered and other bosses might adopt similar practices.

    • Cate says:

      02:25pm | 02/11/11

      The Boards actions were far more militant than any of the unions actions.  You cannot crush peoples spirit on a whim.  It is not the correct or decent way to manage.

    • Cate says:

      02:25pm | 02/11/11

      The Boards actions were far more militant than any of the unions actions.  You cannot crush peoples spirit on a whim.  It is not the correct or decent way to manage.

    • Joan Bennett says:

      06:56am | 01/11/11

      If you think losing $15 million a week isn’t crisis point, I don’t know what is.  By your own admission, you think $5 million is a whole lot or is that only when you are referring to someone else’s salary?  Methinks the author is a fully paid up unionist…

    • Brian Taylor says:

      12:17am | 01/11/11

      I have to wonder just who the twat of the year really is?
      think it might be someone called Mr Lemon.
      Does Mr Lemon forget that nearly EVERY xmas time, the bloody unions are bunging on some act or the other with the airlines.
      never fails.
      Of course the airlines are painted as big bad bastards by both the unions and their newspaper hacks.
      if the unions are so worried about their jobs going overseas, stop trying to bloody ruin the airlines by lining up their own pockets
      Don’t forget folks. follow the money is the trick
      where does a HELL of a lot of union money go?
      Maybe the ALP?

    • John Hay says:

      10:30pm | 31/10/11

      Joyce did precisely what Ayn Rand advised, in her famous book, “Atlas Shrugged.” He went on strike against socialist bullies and hyenas. And it worked. The hyenas have been yipping and baying ever since. They can hand out the medicine but they sure can’t take it.

    • Craig says:

      09:49pm | 31/10/11

      I don’t like or agree with the unions, however Joyce’s actions go far beyond the impact the Unions have had.

      Joyce’s role is to keep Qantas sustainable, however he has failed every management test in how to introduce and manage change, bringing staff along with him.

      He has personally created the largest management-worker split in an Australian listed company, presided over an enormous drop in shareholder value and failed to understand or reflect the values that separate Qantas from other airlines and allowed it a price premium.

      In other words, he’s a wrecker who is not interested in shareholder value, customer service or staff satisfaction. His interest is in personal wealth.

      I would not be surprised to see a massive buyout of Qantas by foreign interests, leading to a huge golden handshake to Joyce - it may have been the plan all along.

      To turn around views and reflect the pain Qantas needs for survival, Joyce should voluntarily cut his own salary to $1 per year or a similar token amount and press the board and other executives to voluntarily do the same. This would immediately negate the image of Joyce as prepared to give, but not take distasteful medicine.

    • Ross fedup says:

      09:30pm | 31/10/11

      YES MAYBE the goverment should buy back qantas that way the lowlife union leads can hold the country to ransom with the with more money less work more days of less work more time at home because its a ingrown toe nail the greatest day was today the unions wre told to back down and stop being terrorist .as for the PM all l can say is your day is coming you know the rumors are real because its the same back stabbers who killed of RUDD are after you .

    • John Adams says:

      08:49pm | 31/10/11

      Will our elite sporting teams still wear the logo of their sponsor, QANTAS, with pride?

    • Wayne says:

      07:57pm | 31/10/11

      Qantas has to be viable to survive and this includes an adequate return for shareholders. Passengers are tending more and more to purchase based on price. Qantas has a higher cost base than its competitors. This means Qantas will become more and more marginalized as time goes on as more passengers move to cheaper options. Its largest cost after fuel is wages, and the wages cost is under upward pressure by the union demands. If it cannot reduce its costs closer to the competition it has no long term future. Remember Ansett, unless there is change, Qantas will go the same way, it is just a question of when. Some people seem to consider any profit made by a company fair game to be taken by wage increases. Unfortunately with todays competitive pressures company survival is not guaranteed and all the jobs will disappear if the company fails. It make you wonder whether the unions care if the company fails.

    • Karl Highmarx says:

      07:22pm | 31/10/11

      Great piece Geoff, as usual, and kudos to The Punch for actually running something to the left of Mussolini. Pity about the audience. Like trying to get Ralph magazine readers to tune in to Shakespeare!

    • PK says:

      07:22pm | 31/10/11

      Hey, this is good. Where did this come from? All 100% correct. All I can say is why is Julia so timid on the response? Go the guts, I say. I have read elsewhere that this was simply “industrial terrorism”. Has a ring to it.

    • Mooooga Harris says:

      06:58pm | 31/10/11

      Mojo H
      Well if Australia’s prime minister does it to HER owne people,well then others will follows too,people like Joyce, its all about themselves, they dont care about the public, as long as they earne good money.

    • Michael Lynch says:

      05:49pm | 31/10/11

      From the majority of comments on here, most people would seem to be happy with QANTAS beng Australian in name only as long as the flights are cheap.I suggest you check out the safety record of QANTAS since 2006 and hope you’re not aboard one of those aircraft serviced on the cheap. The airline won’t be competitive if it has the reputation that GARUDA had in the nineties.Just imagine being put on hold by a switchboard in Taiwan because your luggage is missing in Melbourne, or contacting a switchboard in Delhi because your onward flight to Brisbane has been cancelled due to fog.

    • Poor Man's Chris Corrigan says:

      05:48pm | 31/10/11

      This didn’t start withthe unions. Joyce has been progressively moving Qantas down-market ever dince he took over. Leg-room getting les and less; meals on international flights being cut back; cabins being allowed to run down; corners being ut on safety.

      Alan Joyce is a protege of Michael O’Leary, the arrogant sod who runs the world’s dodgiest airline, Ryannair. Should we be surprised that he he is taking a premium brand airline down the low-budget road?
      What can we expect next? Look at his mentor. Maybe pay toilets on board; print out your own boarding pass or pay 100 bucks extra at the gate; flights purporting to take you to Sydney and then delivering you to Bathurst,with the offer of a bus (at extra cost) to get you to Sydney?

      Maybe he will enthusiastically embrace O’Leary’s campaign for “vertical seating”..

      To see where Aln Joyce is taking what was once Australia’s most prestigious brand, look at where he has come from.

      Time for this poor man’s Chris Corrigan to shove off back to Lie’nair.

    • Straddiegal says:

      03:56pm | 01/11/11

      Agree completely. Send him back to Dubs, where he belongs. Make him fly Ryan Air all the way.

    • marley says:

      07:18pm | 31/10/11

      I don’t know how to break this to you, but Qantas isn’t a “premium brand” airline, and hasn’t been since long before Joyce took over the reins.  It’s a standard, middle of the road airline.  That’s it.  Has been for years (well, at least since I first flew it, in the early 90s). 

      And standard, middle of the road airlines all struggle to make a buck.  They can’t get the volume that the cheapies get, and they can’t provide the service that the top tier airlines like Singapore provide.

    • Phillip says:

      05:01pm | 31/10/11

      Quote” gk says:04:59pm | 31/10/11

      your reference to Ansett is interesting, since Joyce was on their prior to their collapse… “Quote

      WRONG. Ansett was closed down by New Zealand Airlines after they took it over.

      It wasnt Allen Joyce that shut down Qantas,
      It was the Unions and the Federal Government.
      Rudd and Gillard tore up the Liberals policies on employment that were working and gave the unions back thier muscle to do what ever they want to any company and they are flexing those muscles. Lets put the blame where it belongs with Gillard and the Federal government.
      If it were my company i would have done exactly the same.

    • Colin says:

      04:53pm | 31/10/11

      While the short term damage to Qantas is a huge gamble by Joyce, it is likely to pay off for him and the board.  He knew his action would force it to the Fair Work Aaustralia (FWA) and a likely termination (in the national interest).  What this now means is that they have to reach agreement in 21 days or FWA will decide for them.  Joyce knows he is now in the box seat because FWA will never in a million years impose the contentious clauses the unions are seeking.  Remember that both sides are close to a deal anyway on wage increases etc.  But the clauses management won’t agree to are a guarantee of job security and prohibiting use of contracted outsourcing.  FWA will not support the unions on this because a busines has the right to structrue services the way it wants (on behalf its shareholders) and you cannot legislate job security because it would potentially bankrupt a business.  In all public company business decisions made by management etc, they must be in the best interests of shareholders, that is their legal obligaton

    • R says:

      04:42pm | 31/10/11

      Luck of the Irish that he didn’t get shown the door!

    • Evalee says:

      04:34pm | 31/10/11

      “We’ve got a kid arm-deep in the cookie jar while querying the existence of baked goods.”....very good

    • Nikko says:

      04:09pm | 31/10/11

      Ansett -  the reason it collapsed was because of poor management decisions eg. too many different types of planes which added to costs, poor fuel hedging, Toomey buying fuel for Air NZ via the Ansett subsidiary.Employee costs didn’t help but it was more those decisions over a number of years that contributed. I did some dd on it

    • Ross says:

      04:05pm | 31/10/11

      Don’t understand why so many Aussies are union haters.  Is it because mummy and Daddy are union haters?  Or is it because you missed something and don’t understand unions are nothing like they were in the 70-80’s?  Come-on, if you don’t like them, don’t be a hypocrite, march up to your boss right now…give up all the rights you currently enjoy courtesy of unions (yes, your sick leave, your 4 weeks annual leave and your protection from unfair dismissal etc).  If your job was about to be offshored im sure a lot of you would be the first to whinge…oh thats right…you can’t because you have no union.

    • St. Michael says:

      06:00pm | 01/11/11

      “Is it because mummy and Daddy are union haters?”

      Nope, 30 years in their relevant unions.

      “Or is it because you missed something and don’t understand unions are nothing like they were in the 70-80’s?”

      Nope, because I worked for one.  And the only reason they’re not like they were in the 70s-80s is because of tight laws keeping them from being so.  As it is they look for every possible loophole in the law, and the attitudes are still as class warfare and proletariat (speaking mainly for the Left) as ever.

      “Come-on, if you don’t like them, don’t be a hypocrite, march up to your boss right now…give up all the rights you currently enjoy courtesy of unions (yes, your sick leave, your 4 weeks annual leave and your protection from unfair dismissal etc).”

      Can’t.  Mostly because much of that, if not all of it, are protections given by law, not by the union.  Do something more impressive for my legal rights and then I’ll be persuaded you’re still relevant.

      “If your job was about to be offshored im sure a lot of you would be the first to whinge…oh thats right…you can’t because you have no union.”

      If I was offshored I’d have an excellent knowledge base with which to go to my former employer’s competitor.  I’ve done it a few times already.  You’d be surprised what real skill and taking responsibility for your career and life (rather than outsourcing it to a union) buys you.

    • jf says:

      05:28pm | 31/10/11

      Ross says:05:05pm | 31/10/11

      ” unions are nothing like they were in the 70-80’s?”

      That’s because worker’s rights were limited and draconian in the 1870s and 1880s. The unions had an important role in ensuring that the imbalance of power that favoured employers and enabled them to use that power to exploit workers.

      Now, in 2011, the unions are stuggling to maintain their relevance to enable them to clip the ticket of the very worker’s that they represent. Forget the payrise; leave the union and keep the dues.

    • RyaN says:

      04:29pm | 31/10/11

      @Ross: Mainly because people realise that the unions aren’t what they used to be. The union leaders are left wing commies who come straight out of university to the unions as a stepping stone to their career with the Labor party.
      Take the carbon tax for instance, where were the unions on that, and yet thousands of jobs are going to go offshore and the unions are complicit. Fact is, the unions no longer represent the interests of the people and are only representing their own, THAT is why Aussies hate the unions now. Might as well just call the unions the Labor party and get over and done with it.

    • Cam says:

      04:00pm | 31/10/11

      Pathetic article.  I’m sick of unions running the country, so well done to Alan Joyce for standing up to them and saying enough is enough.

    • Andrew says:

      04:50pm | 31/10/11

      The unions have their place, but sometimes they give the distinct impression that they would rather see their employer go out of business than moderate their demands. That is nothing but bloody-mindedness.

    • Mark says:

      03:56pm | 31/10/11

      Michael ? End up like Japan Air Lines ? JAL collapsed due to gross managerial incompetence.

      In fact their new Chairman announced the former executives who ran it pre- bankrupcy were not fit to run a greengrocers.

      JAL wasn’t a union thing at all it was due to some very shonky decisions regarding asset leasing.

    • Pat says:

      03:54pm | 31/10/11

      i get the sense reading down the comments that Qantas has recuited quite a few ‘bloggers’ to get onto media things like Lemon’s article to lessen the PR damage. Some of the counter comments here, read as if the writers are full graduates of the Ayn Rand School for Neo Cons.

      In the Alan Joyce-Leigh Clifford model for Qantas going forward and lowering costs….....I am reminded of that funny scene in the film ‘Its a Mad, Mad ,Mad Mad World’ where the guys hired a plane to fly. It keeps backfiring as they rev up, a woman blesses herself , gets an axe and cuts the rope to allow it to take off.  Joyce has now placed Qantas in the sewer: as a brand. It fits: ‘Pig headed Bog - Irish’ mentality.  And hey, I’m of Irish descent -  so don’t try to play the P.C. card, with me!  People in the advertising business will be mulling over this classic example as of , ‘what not to do’ if you want respect and to protect your business brand, for many years to come.  The public may not have yet seen the possible future ‘real play out’ of this sorry mess.  Hinted quietly by a few insiders, dropping tips to friends -  that the future scenario is already planned - the complete destruction of Qantas as we know it , followed by a form of ‘revamped resurrection’ . And that Joyce has only fired the first move. .Look behind the dust and see what Joyce is really trying ‘to pull’.

    • Cate says:

      02:30pm | 02/11/11

      I don’t think you were cynical Pat and I agree with you Kayte.  As I have been saying. People who want to bag the employees have had the wool pulled over their eyes. If you pull the rug up, you’ll see all the dirt.  The dirt needs to be exposed.  Furthermore Qantas staff are not thugs.  They look after you in the sky.

    • Kayte says:

      07:24am | 01/11/11

      How right you are Pat. The insiders know what the plan is. Can’t wait to see what the vast majority of people who have swallowed the Qantas spin hook, line and sinker will have to say when it is revealed. Unfortunately by then it will be too late.

    • Brenton says:

      05:03pm | 31/10/11

      No need to be cynical,  Pat.  It’s just that not everyone agrees with your view of the world.

    • Ian BEADLE says:

      03:54pm | 31/10/11

      I’ve read some pretty one eyed articles in the past, this will rank with the best of them.  It’s almost a given that airline unions will take some form of industrial action during the run up to Christmas every year. Congratulations to Alan Joyce, his job is to run an efficient cost effective business, not to kowtow to union thuggery. These people need to remember what happened to the BLF and the Painters & Dockers.

    • William Beattie says:

      03:49pm | 31/10/11

      Qantas could have referred the dispute to FWA, Unions have a right to bargain capital ought to respect that

    • Against the Man says:

      03:46pm | 31/10/11

      Newsflash:
      The Australian: QANTAS warned the Gillard government in advance that its industrial dispute with airline unions could lead to the grounding of its entire fleet.

      “Qantas had certainly raised with me ... the problems they were having with the fleet and the grounding of the fleet, in terms of the grounding of particular planes,” Mr Albanese said.

      “We had briefings with ministers, with the department. We told them how our operation was deteriorating and that reliability was collapsing,” Mr Joyce told ABC radio.

      So the PM and the Minister were warned. The ‘surprise’ she spoke about turned out to be another lie. No surprise to anyone. They can’t have it both ways either the government doesn’t intervene at all or they do (and they get in early to prevent an escalation instead of kissing the Queens arse all weekend). Gillard clearly has shown us why she isn’t fit to be a politician of any kind. All she can do is lie and blame Abbott.

      And so we don’t let this distract from other Labor f#$k ups:
      http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2011/10/13/266061_ntnews.html

    • Justin says:

      03:43pm | 31/10/11

      While i’m not an Alan Joyce fan 5 mil for a CEO is pretty piss poor.  And given that Qantas has improved its profits since he has been in charge he is doing something right for the company and shareholders.

      However for some reason Australians have this opinion that we should keep all jobs in Australia and also be as cheap as everywhere else in the world. Its ok for us to buy from overseas ourselves, but if a company does it to reduce its costs its not ok.

      If unemployment was an issue in Australia then keeping jobs in Australia is a valid argument, but at 5% we can afford to offshore some work to help reduce costs. However the unions have really ingrained this aussie mateship which really helps them, because offshore workers wont become union members now will they.

      WHile I’m at it, i’m not a Qantas shareholder, I am a union member and a Qantas frequent flyer.  However i don’t believe everything the union might say, nor do i take articles on the web as being heresay either.

    • Michael says:

      03:32pm | 31/10/11

      Didn’t get to the end of the article, as it was so poorly written. Half the comments are pro union and the other half pro management. At the end of the day, if Qantas continues in it’s current shape, it will probably end up like Ansett, Japan Airlines, etc.

      In order to survive you must evolve…

    • LJ Dots says:

      07:06pm | 31/10/11

      ... and that really says it all.

    • Charlie says:

      03:30pm | 31/10/11

      I can see it now, all you arm chair jockeys running back to the bosses office demanding all the entitlements and rights won through union action be completely removed from your contract so that you can be untainted by the union scum? so i guess your next post might be in a few fortnights once you get your first lunch break, at least you can take the kids to work permanently and when you get injured on the job will be able to look forward to a long stay on the dole without any workcover payments, gits.

    • TC says:

      04:20pm | 31/10/11

      The unions had their place and time. yes they acheived things and we are grateful.  Worker’s entitlements have been enshrined in legislation. Now, unions exist to extract money from their members to use on prostitutes.

    • Daniel D says:

      03:01pm | 31/10/11

      No one is proud of Australia or being Australian. The holy dollar and a bitter and cynical world view by self obsessed, selfish and shallow people is what is left. Fortunately for Joyce they are all excited he won and they can fly the Asian QANTAS.

      Save a buck and put down the middle class and all that. Great sport and as long as the Audi repayments are being met, who cares.

      My father was a soldier in the Australian army. Today I would tell him to resign and not bother. Australia isn’t worth saving.

    • tombowler says:

      07:29pm | 31/10/11

      Kurisu Sonsaku:

      You are my new favourite Punch pundit.

      Word.

    • TC says:

      04:18pm | 31/10/11

      And yet you support striking workers who want MORE MONEY? maybe they want it to pay off their Audi’s? Greed is not just the domain of corporate managers.

    • Kurisu Sonsaku says:

      03:56pm | 31/10/11

      “No one is proud of Australia or being Australian” - I am.

      “Asian QANTAS” - Hysterical xenophobia, how quaint.

      “My father was a soldier in the Australian army” So what, i was a sailor in the Australian Navy.

      Do you have a point or are you sooking?

    • Oxspit says:

      02:59pm | 31/10/11

      It’s really quite amazing how many posters here seem to be simultaneously holding the following 3 thoughts in their heads:

      1) Joyce was using “‘The Unions’ ” (kind of like ‘the Terrorists’ or something) tactics against them.

      2) “The Unions” tactics are morally reprehensible.

      3) 1 & 2 combine to mean that Joyce was in the right and “The Unions” are in the wrong.

      Personally, I can’t see how anyone’s managing to figure out where any relevant union has acted in anywhere near as reprehensibly, but hey, I’m open to hearing someone actually try to make that case (beyond just saying ‘Unions… Thuggery! ’ etc..) .....

      And it’s by-the-by… Because if you’re honestly holding the above 3 thoughts in your head if you could just take the time to preface your posts with the statement ‘I’m a prejudiced morally inconsistent twat’, well that’d just save everyone a whole lot of time. Thanks in advance.

    • Freeman says:

      05:58pm | 31/10/11

      so your point is that, two wrongs don’t make a right and we’re all hypocrytes? how pompous.

      obviously you think Qantas should have continued along it’s diplomatic path of being screwed over and bullied into bankruptcy. We’d all prefer an industrial relations system that didn’t allow unions to hold a company to ransom, but since we don’t have that we’re happy to see Qantas take whatever action in it’s limited power to bring this wreckless industrial action to a holt.

      Qantas does it’s best to re-imburse its cutomers for their inconvenience. the unions do not. the unions carried out their strikes to be as disruptive as possible, even calling off strikes once qantas has already layed off flights in preparedness. Qantas had precious little recourse.

    • marley says:

      05:53pm | 31/10/11

      @Oxspit - I see it this way.  The unions, with their off again, on again strikes, were bleeding Qantas to death, but slowly, and while collecting their pay cheques.  Joyce decided, if Qantas was going to die, it should be quick and neat.  And no pay cheques to the union members in the meantime.  It’s a high stakes poker game, bluff and counter bluff. Bluff:  we’re going to strike;  you cancel flights; no, we decide not to strike so we get paid but you lose money because you’ve cancelled all those flights.  Counterbluff:  we’re closing down the airline so you don’t get paid and all hell breaks loose. 

      None of this has anything to do with right and wrong.  Just who is the best poker player. And that’s Joyce, because he’s got his termination of work action, and binding arbitration at the end of it.

    • Tom says:

      02:29pm | 31/10/11

      You are trully a moron. $ 3M TO $5M salary for running a company of this size is chicken s—t. Tom Scuuly will get 1M to play 24 games of football after playing 21 games his whole life!!. Luke Donald got a 15M bonus for winning the Fedex cup. Wake up and smell the grass you idiot.

    • Dodge says:

      04:24pm | 31/10/11

      Yes, but Luke has a far more discernible skill level, as all athletes do. A small percentage of people will be paid for playing at that level, as all elite sportspeople can claim.

      We’re just meant to ‘believe’ someone like Joyce is a good CEO.  One of an elite group who we are meant to ‘believe’ can run a business so much better than the majority in society. I’m not sure why people seek to place CEO’s on such a pedestal. Most of them are just people managers, the highest level of administration effectively. The problem is how self interested the modern CEO is and how this starkly contrasts with the most effective CEO management principles of delegation and employee growth.

      Even so, what could be a greater herald for Capitalism than the finance and advertising infused world of mega sports? Surely the talent of sportspeople isn’t overshadowed by that of the CEO?

      Australian CEO income levels are fine, the timing of his pay increase is silly though.. At least we don’t have the lunacy on offer in the US in terms of salary taxation levels (low) and CEO incomes being mostly non salary based.

    • Gabri Ella says:

      02:20pm | 31/10/11

      Excellent article!  it provides all the info, the facts and sharp to the important vital points! BRAVOOOO Geoff Lemon you did a great job in proper researching and writing this article!!

    • Rod says:

      02:07pm | 31/10/11

      Watch the sickie list grow now. I don’t blame the workers on the ground so much. It’s the union heirachy that still get paid no matter how they strike goes for and don’t even work for Qantas, that are to blame in all this. Stick it to Joyce all you want but he’s going to get a resolution quicker than the union thugs would.

    • Peter says:

      02:03pm | 31/10/11

      Well done Joyce for sticking it to those Union bludgers who want to drag this country back to the 70’s .

    • Kika says:

      02:23pm | 31/10/11

      Yeah - by taking us back to 1820

    • jb says:

      02:03pm | 31/10/11

      Twat of the year huh?
      He just played the unions game and beat them hands down.
      Hardly twat of the year.
      He just earned every penny of that pay rise and now all customers of Qantas have peace of mind knowing they won’t have flights cancelled by unions ‘Baking Qantas slowly’.
      If they didn’t behave like thugs Joyce wouldn’t have had to treat them like thugs.
      I say good on him, it’s nice to see someone with the balls to stand up to the unions.

    • Em says:

      01:59pm | 31/10/11

      Great article. Especially the bit about the John Travolta video.

    • thatmosis says:

      01:58pm | 31/10/11

      When are you going to grow up you Labor Troll and get out into the real world. Joyce did what a lot of people have wanted to do over the years and thats stand up to the ever increasing power of the unions. He did it in such a way that the Government who had been sitting on their collective arses had done nothing for fear of alienating their Union bosses had to act and get any strikes banned. At least we now have 21 days when these clowns and overpaid clowns at that must actually do some work instead of skiving off as usual. All power to Joyce and his crusade against these greedy people. I was going to use a derogatory name for these greedy people but then I thought, why lower myself to their level.

    • Marilyn Shepherd says:

      01:53pm | 31/10/11

      Which part of “the unions were not doing anything wrong” don’t the lazy haters and whiners understand?

      FWA said clearly it was Qantas in the wrong, not the unions so why don’t you shut up and get facts.

      Do you want our airline being flown by scab workers on cheap wages with bad maintenance do you?

      Maybe we could get Indonesia to do the maintenance on $2 a day for the workers, it’s working a treat for their own airline Garuda.

      The unions are just people who do the work you idiots.  And without them we would still be living in the Dickensian era of slavery.

      Joyce was in the wrong and his rotten board and he should all be sacked.

    • marley says:

      07:26pm | 31/10/11

      @iansand - I think you’re finally beginning to get it.  Before Qantas hit the lockout button, it was doubtful whether the FWA had legal authority to intervene.  So Joyce pushed the button to get the FWA involved..

      But there’s more to government than the FWA and the legislation. There are things called influence and persuasion, powerful tools in any government’s armory. A phone call here, a favour there, a bit of strong-arming, a bit of soft-talking, a promise, a threat, and guess what, you just might get people back to the bargaining table.  If you think of governance in purely legalistic terms then you don’t understand how they really work.

    • iansand says:

      05:51pm | 31/10/11

      Kurisu Sonsaku - Who said anything about anything being illegal?  Before Qantas did their thing there were no grounds for intervention by FWA.  After Qantas did their thing there were grounds for intervention by FWA.  Pretty simple.

      More importantly, and by analogy, before Qantas did their thing there were no grounds for the Government to intervene.  It makes all the bleating about the Government not doing anything look a bit silly.

    • marley says:

      05:45pm | 31/10/11

      @iansand - I read the judgement.  The FWA determined that Qantas’ action brought the issue within the parameters of s.424(1), in turn giving the FWA authority to act.  That’s not a determination that Qantas was wrong;  it’s simply a determination that the Qantas action was significantly serious to bring the FWA powers into play.  You ought to understand that distinction.

      And, for the rest, perhaps you’re not aware of this, but ministers and governments have tools beyond the purely regulatory to deal with disputes.  They’re quite capable of hauling people in, knocking heads together, and making it very clear that there will be repercussions unless the two sides get down to talking,  Perhaps an ALP presidency might be at risk, or government support in opposing another airline getting access to Jetstar’s routes.  Sometimes, having an overbearing umpire in the game is all it needs to get the two sides to start playing the game.

    • Kurisu Sonsaku says:

      03:04pm | 31/10/11

      @ iansand - Qantas still acted legally, by doing what they did they can now come under Section 275 of the FWA Act so determinations are now subject to;
      (a) the merits of the case;
      (c) … the interests of the employers and employees who are covered by the determination;
      (d) the public interest;
      (e) how productivity might be improved in the enterprise or enterprises concerned;
      (f) the extent to which the conduct of the bargaining representatives for the proposed enterprise agreement concerned was reasonable during bargaining for the agreement;
      (g) the extent to which the bargaining representatives for the proposed enterprise agreement concerned have complied with the good faith bargaining requirements;
      (h) incentives to continue to bargain at a later time.

      I would expect Qantas to base their case on e & f, however the FWA panel has been stacked with 8 ex-unionists and runs the risk of being seen as a hostile panel which would make a mockery of the legislation la gillard had a hand in writing. In the brinkmanship stakes Joyce is currently winning.

    • Just Sayin' says:

      02:56pm | 31/10/11

      “People fail to realise and understand the history of working conditions and what the unions did to restore the balance of power.”

      I notice that is in the past tense Kika, good of you to implicitly acknowledge that they have outlived their usefulness.  Just as chloroform was once a great anaesthetic, unions were great for ending child labour and 16 hour working days.  Of course, the only people that use chloroform these days are rapists and serial killers on TV.

    • iansand says:

      02:40pm | 31/10/11

      Read a bit closer, marley:

      “[10] It is unlikely that the protected industrial action taken by the three unions, even taken together, is threatening to cause significant damage to the tourism and air transport industries. The response industrial action of which Qantas has given notice, if taken, threatens to cause significant damage to the tourism and air transport industries and indirectly to industry generally because of the effect on consumers of air passenger and cargo services. The Qantas evidence was that the cost to it alone is $20 million per day.”

      http://www.fwa.gov.au/decisionssigned/html/2011fwafb7444.htm

      While there is no finding of fault, it is pretty clear that, until Qantas pulled its stunt, the grounds for Fair Work Australia to make an order did not exist.  And, ipso facto, there were no grounds for the government to make a ministerial declaration.

    • Kurisu Sonsaku says:

      02:30pm | 31/10/11

      Lets see - “FWA said clearly it was Qantas in the wrong”

      No, that is a lie.

      Having a look at the rest of your drivel we have; anti-freedom of association, protectionism, xenophobia, rabid hysteria and best of all how can a dribbler who hasn’t worked in years call for the board of a company to be sacked.

    • Nick says:

      02:29pm | 31/10/11

      Marilyn “the haters” are the Union thugs who were hell bent on bringing Qantas down to its knees in its effort to impose unrealistic demands which would eventually see the end of an Australian airline and thousands of jobs lost.Which part of that don’t you understand???

    • jb says:

      02:27pm | 31/10/11

      oooh you’ve certainly shown who you are… Nice to see your Union colours coming to bare, could it be Ged???

    • Kika says:

      02:25pm | 31/10/11

      Agree Marilyn. People fail to realise and understand the history of working conditions and what the unions did to restore the balance of power. People often knock unions, until they get jammed by their boss.

    • Keith Hammersmith says:

      02:23pm | 31/10/11

      cool,  then let the unions get their way!  QANTAS becomes unsustainable,  goes out of business and bam 38000 workers unemployed,  unions going to take the blame for that?
      good plan!

      just fyi,  just because someone over-seas does a job doesn’t mean it will be bad,  that’s racist thinking, and in this world of globalization has no place.  Do however note, many many airlines service their aircraft over seas, and they manage to fly,  in fact they manage to run good business models.  Open your mind to the 21’st century.

    • marley says:

      02:14pm | 31/10/11

      @Marilyn - well, I read the FWA decision and I do not see that they said, clearly or otherwise, that “Qantas was in the wrong.”  And if the FWA did feel that way, perhaps you can explain why they granted Qantas’ request to terminate all industrial action, rather than the unions’ request to merely suspend it.

    • Just Sayin' says:

      02:08pm | 31/10/11

      “The unions are just people who do the work you idiots.  And without them we would still be living in the Dickensian era of slavery.”

      At least the literature would be better.

      And no, the unions are NOT the people who do the work.  Unions are political entities.  People are the people who do the work, whether they are unionised or not. As for scabs, I’ve always wanted to be one, but I’ve never had luck of being part of a unionised workforce.

      Joyce may have been in the wrong, but the fact is that he got exactly the outcome he wanted.  Utter brilliance.

    • Joe says:

      01:50pm | 31/10/11

      Why does anyone deserve a pay rise of 70% ? Especially when the wage is huge to start with anyway. Pollys do it all the time. Does my head in. Goods and services cost the same for everybody, why do you ‘neeed’ millions when things cost hundreds?

    • Giraffe says:

      03:10pm | 31/10/11

      Joe - No-one ‘needs’ millions, but companies ‘need’ to pay millions to get the best people in the job. Why do you think the quality of our politicians is so drab? You get what you pay for.

      Anna C - I’m guessing you’re the sort that ‘would do it for half that much’ type? Hence, you’re not doing it..

    • Anna C says:

      02:27pm | 31/10/11

      Agreed and could the timing of it have been any worse? It smacks too much of ‘do as I say and not as I do.’

    • Steve says:

      01:48pm | 31/10/11

      Please take this post down immediately!

      Jesus (PBUH) is the second most holy prophet of Islam,
      not to mention the God of Christians!
      How dare you profane his name like this!

    • RyaN says:

      01:46pm | 31/10/11

      One thing that strikes me (excuse the pun) is the fact that this seems to be an Alan Joyce vs Union thing. Both are self serving and could care less about the two groups of people who Qantas relies on for their future, the shareholders and the customers, both of whom are the losers when these two carry on like petulant children.
      Joyce, like Sol, is yet another reason why Australia should only allow Australian citizens to be CEO of an Australian company.
      Joyce couldn’t give a stuff what he does to an Australian company and the Australian citizens that are impacted, as long as that seagull CEO gets his pay cheque and on his way he goes.

    • Arnold says:

      03:50pm | 31/10/11

      Qantas shares are up almost 5% today.  I would say that the shareholders would be pretty happy about that.

      As for the customers, if Australians are so proud of their national carrier, maybe they should purchase their tickets with Qantas, rather than the cheapest alternative available. 

      Until the price of Qantas tickets come down I don’t see Australian consumers changing their purchasing habits.  And unfortunately they won’t come down without a major restructuring within Qantas or overseas cost of living pressures increase.  Which one do you think would happen before Qantas became unsustainable?

    • Boo says:

      01:40pm | 31/10/11

      So…we should be THANKING the Unions for striking when the mood hits because it…benefits the company they WORK FOR.

      What little union-funded pedestal are you spitting this article from?

      Sorry - your Union buddies got bit and beaten by someone not scared to stand up to them, and play the game they’ve been playing for a YEAR. ‘Oooh noooo…he didn’t bend over and give it all up for us!’

      If I was an employer, and had tried negotiating for a YEAR and kept coming to the table with offer after offer, which kept getting thrown back in my face - I’d LOCK you out of MY damn workplace too. Make no mistake.

      It is NOT the job of the Unions to try and RUN a company, or demand that it be run to their specifications. Since Qantas workers are already paid above and beyond what other airline workers are paid, then the Unions job is done and they butt out. Time of the Unions holding this country to ransom is over. And it took an Irishman / Australian citizen to do it.

      Joyce 1 - Unions - NOTHIN’

    • Destry says:

      01:35pm | 31/10/11

      This article is a lemon. Good example of someone who, obviosly, has never had a real job. As long as the unions are losng $15 million / week of someone else’s money, it doesn’t matter, does it you git? If this is Geoff Lemon’s day job, I urge retraining in a hands on job like recycling sorter or sanitary collector before he’s homeless.

    • alex says:

      01:28pm | 31/10/11

      joyce 1 unions 0

    • Against the Man says:

      07:41pm | 31/10/11

      The fact is Gillard is a -10 hahahaha and her minority supporters are fuming and getting so desperate.

      Lovin the slow destruction of the ALP by Gillard, too beautiful for words really smile

    • Farken says:

      03:03pm | 31/10/11

      can you read ? it dont look that way

    • Anna C says:

      02:15pm | 31/10/11

      I think it’s more like:

      Joyce 0
      Unions 0
      Aussie flying public 0

    • alex says:

      02:03pm | 31/10/11

      you can kiss goodbye to qantas in under 3 years if its ever Joyce 0 Unions 1

      however in this case i think i got it right the first time

    • Farken says:

      01:45pm | 31/10/11

      wrong its qantas 0 vs unions 0 you did not read FWA"work fair australia”  decision

    • Storeman Norman says:

      01:28pm | 31/10/11

      The issue is not that Alan Joyce is Irish.  It’s that he is a midget. His megalomaniacal actions reflect classic ‘little man’s syndrome’.  There seem to be a few intellectual midgets on this blog too.

    • Against the Man says:

      06:41pm | 31/10/11

      @ reality - a good point. Something had to be done and someone had to do it. That someone wasn’t gillard.

    • reality says:

      01:42pm | 31/10/11

      the issue is not that Joyce is irish or small

      the issue is that Australia and other countries with a strong currency and high wages can no longer compete at alot of things and must do something about it.

      do the unions think they own the business? if anyone tried to stop me from saving my business they would be out of a job pretty quickly.

    • Frank McCabe says:

      01:28pm | 31/10/11

      I will try my utmost to avoid flying Qantas ever again. The actions of this overpaid lying leprechaun have brought an Australian icon (and nearly the entire economy) to its knees. A thousand goodbyes to you and your blarney Mr Joyce. Go home and try and get a job with Ryan Air - they operate at about your level.

    • Ayden says:

      03:13pm | 31/10/11

      Again, his pay package is partly tie to the shares of the company in addition to targets set by the board he needs to meet. Poor share and company performance mean that his pay may not have increased.

      The fact he’s Irish is not indicative of his performance as a CEO. I really do not understand why his size or nationality matters. Will a bigger size or local CEO do the job better?

      AJ is doing what needs to be done to ensure the competitiveness of Qantas. An Australian icon, yes but not being able to move with the times will deemed it to collapse and the bigger picture at the end of the day means the end of an Australian airline, the end of an Australian icon, the rise of another airline (which might not be local) and the huge loss of jobs or should we say another Ansett?

    • Andrew says:

      02:46pm | 31/10/11

      Wow, not exageratting there much. Entire economy? I didn’t see many businesses around where i work (Sydney CBD) struggling, closing down and/or laying off mass employees because of the qantas strike.

      Would people be so against the CEO if he was Australian instead of Irish? Fact is Qantas, like most airlines are a very capital intensive business. Only about $1 for every $100 spent makes its way to the QAN bottom line and the international arm is loss making. They don’t have the cash and needs to fight.

      If you want to see Qantas remain an “aussie” company with all its staff and maintenance arms in Australia, then ignore the cheap fairs from budget carriers and happily pay well above average fairs for Qantas flights.

      the problem is that although costs keep going up and there are a lot of costs in the airline game, the ticket prices are only coming lower. Most people, for all their talk about supporting Australia and pride about the Qantas brand, would much rather fly a budget airline and have that little bit extra to spend on their holidays.

    • Ashley says:

      02:26pm | 31/10/11

      I am with you Frank.
      Who do Alan and the Unions think they ar?. How dare they disrupt my travel plans?
      Die Qantas Die.

    • Sasha says:

      02:18pm | 31/10/11

      Thank you for your support Frank McCabe.
      We here at the union can not understand what Alan Joyce was thinking when he cancelled all flights and disrupted services. Doesnt he know that is no way to get the support of the Australian public.

    • Brawl says:

      01:18pm | 31/10/11

      It can’t be that all these CEOs are rewarded for their original thinking. They all sing from the same song sheet – we need to cut costs, Australian wages mean we can’t compete, we have to move operations offshore or we’ll perish etc etc.

      The day one arrives at a company and proposes lifting standards of service to achieve a greater market share and increase revenue/profits and recognises the values that make a company great – in Qantas’ case, its (formerly impeccable) safety record and its status as Australia’s airline - and acts on that, then they’ll be worth the money.

      Fact is, by moving jobs offshore, Qantas is losing its unique and core appeal to Australians as a great Australian brand. And should, heaven forbid, a plane crash after more engineering jobs are moved OS, then Qantas will be just another airline with nothing at all special about it in the minds of Australians. In fact, it will probably be hated.

      Perhaps it’s just my background in marketing, but surely those two unique selling points are worth more than the 1000 jobs to be axed and a measly pay rise.

    • St. Michael says:

      03:50pm | 31/10/11

      “Fact is, by moving jobs offshore, Qantas is losing its unique and core appeal to Australians as a great Australian brand. And should, heaven forbid, a plane crash after more engineering jobs are moved OS, then Qantas will be just another airline with nothing at all special about it in the minds of Australians. In fact, it will probably be hated.

      Perhaps it’s just my background in marketing, but surely those two unique selling points are worth more than the 1000 jobs to be axed and a measly pay rise.”

      Given your background in marketing you’d understand the difference between a commodity and a branded product.

      If so then you really, really need to somehow turn the airline industry into something other than a commodity market.  Which is impossible.  In our sphere of the world, and in the places that we like to visit, one airline is more or less the same as the other for safety, speed, and experience: hence why there’s a price war between the airlines—because they don’t actually offer a branded product as such and in a commodity market the lowest price wins.

      Most people realise the Great Australian Brands for the most part are made in China, managed from America, and employ from Thailand.  And most of the world realises that most Great Australian Brands are dece

      Unless Qantas starts basically offering first class travel to economy passengers, that simply will not change.

    • Esteban says:

      02:00pm | 31/10/11

      I read recently that the staistic is 70% of passengers base their airline choice on price. The cheapest wins.

      Service and safety are way down the list of factors that drive consumers.

      The cost structure of Qantas is 25% higher than it’s competitors without factoring in present union demands.

      The simple fact is that while the cost of the ticket remains the major factor that influences passengers choice of airline Qantas is going to struggle unless the plan of Joyce is implemented.

      If the Joyce plan is not successful and losses start to mount up then Qantas will have to be taken over by the Govt which is bad news for the taxpayer who will have to support its losses. Also bad news for existing shareholders and super funds who hold shares.  As a Govt owned carrier its losses will grow further as effeciency worsens.

      It is easy to focus on the salary of Joyce but the cost structure of Qantas is so high that whether he is paid $2 m or $5 M it wont make a jot of difference to the medium to long term viability of Qantas.

      In any case, as i understand it, his remuneration increase is contingent on the success of his rescue package. If he is successful he will have earnt every penny of his salary.

      The union’s hands are far from clean on this issue and in part caused this situation to arise. What is bolder/dirtier - planning a strike and backing out before schedules can be reinstated or a lockout?

    • Lloyd says:

      01:51pm | 31/10/11

      A background in marketing??

      Do as you say, and they will get 2% market share tops.

      Worth the money?? Still in the top few safety and service wise, but have to charge so much more for the same thing.

      Just back from China. Just how good is Dragonair and we still get a full Aussie flight crew!

      Please explain.

    • alex says:

      01:44pm | 31/10/11

      if your background is in marketing put a nice rosy spin on losing 200m a year on international flights cos the ladies serving you warm orange juice on your flight earns 60k a year

    • Just Sayin' says:

      01:37pm | 31/10/11

      The core appeal of qantas as Australian has seen their market share drop from 44% of OS flights to 18% since 1970. Try to think about the fact that maintaining a multi billion dollar marketing angle while your market share drops dramatically is probably a bad idea. Marketing, without ROI, is a steaming pile of dung.

    • Lloyd says:

      01:17pm | 31/10/11

      I read many of these comments and sigh at just how stupid many are. Hence why we have a Labor Government.

      Look for a place to invest your hard earned funds and it is most unlikely to be with a company that has less than 2% return on assets.

      If everyone is so damed upset at what is happening, how come 92% or more of you do not fly Qantas OS anyway????

      Facts are facts and Qantas do not compete on a level playing field and probably will not, until cost of living in the competition countries reach our levels.

      Alternatively of course, Gillard could give them some of our cash, so that they can do it the easy way!!!

      Grow up Australia.

    • St. Michael says:

      01:43pm | 31/10/11

      If you are happy with a company that has less than 2% return on your investment you need your head examined anyway, mostly because inflation is running close to or above that anyway.  You would literally be better off with your money in a bank.

    • michael j says:

      01:14pm | 31/10/11

      WELL Good one Mr Lemon , i got a giggle out of that one ,i like it when you keep
      your articles true and factual , the bit about unions giving you herpes lol ,
      anyway what makes Qantas Australian owned shorely the shareholders of this multinational company don’t live here,?why would they put a pom in charge?
      tax deductions i spose,,you change ya name by deed-poll , it’s pretty catchy ,,,bit like herpes,,,,,,,,

    • Steve says:

      01:11pm | 31/10/11

      Better a short lock-out and shut down, than death by a thousand cuts over many months by unionists.

      The Qantas workers seem to think that just because they’re Australians the world owes them a living.

    • Just Sayin' says:

      01:08pm | 31/10/11

      “How dare he react to our demands in any way other than rolling over!”

    • Mouse says:

      08:39pm | 31/10/11

      I’d be interested to know how many of the union members actually fully supported the unions actions.

    • Bob Brownhawk says:

      01:08pm | 31/10/11

      cry me a river princess

    • Statically Determinate says:

      01:07pm | 31/10/11

      This was a difficult read. It just kept going and going.

      People want cheaper flights, companies will try to cut costs.

    • Dave says:

      01:04pm | 31/10/11

      Smart move by Joyce even if the majority don’t understand why. Facing rolling disruption for months on end he “purchased” a legal end to the disruption with the cost being a few days of no flights, the associated issues that were caused and people trashing him. You make the laws work to your favour and that’s all Joyce has done.

    • MarkS says:

      12:57pm | 31/10/11

      Joyce did what he wanted to, another alpha male, mine is bigger then your contest.

    • Steve says:

      02:31pm | 31/10/11

      The TWU boss is moving to the Labor Party President. (it won’t be his problem if all the union members lose their jobs)
      Do any Union leaders have trades or do they all just want to be Labor Politicians?

    • MarkS says:

      02:25pm | 31/10/11

      @Fots
      He did not “have to” spring a sudden ceasing of service on customers. He decided to do so to show that if the unions can inconvenience people then he can do it better. There were many ways to bring the dispute to arbitration, he went the over the top “beep you all” choice.

      @Just Say’in
      He certainly showed he is a bigger one. I am tempted to wave my little finger at him.

    • Kika says:

      02:22pm | 31/10/11

      So new planes don’t need maintenance? Rubbish!

    • Just Sayin' says:

      01:21pm | 31/10/11

      And clearly, joyce’s is bigger.

    • Fots says:

      01:14pm | 31/10/11

      Correction - Joyce did what he HAD to do…

      The fight with the unions wasn’t about pay, it was about jobs and security.
      In Joyce’s interview played over Sky News last night, he gave some details about some of the maintenance work that was no longer required on the newer aircraft, yet the unions wanted to keep those jobs there… Tell me, how can the company evolve if the unions are forcing a company to pay up for jobs that aren’t even needed!

      As far as I’m concerned, the unions didn’t act in the best interest of their members at all…

    • Freeman says:

      12:44pm | 31/10/11

      Wow, don’t the unionists get cranky when the company they try to bleed dry starts fighting back. 

      Alan Joyce delivered precisley the shock the unions and the government required to bring this mischievious industrial action to a holt. if he had not, we could expect months more of intentially dispruptive strikes and probably a concession from qantas for unreasonable pay rises to make it even more uncompetitive.

    • KRS1 says:

      12:36pm | 31/10/11

      You had me at “in an over-reaction that made King Lear look pretty chill”!!
      But seriously this precisely timed Qantas action during CHOGM is a punk move, akin to “dobbing to teacher”.

    • Shane* says:

      12:35pm | 31/10/11

      Did somebody die? Has war been declared? Are global Bacon supplies dangerously low?

      This whole rant reeks of #FirstWorldProblems.

    • fml says:

      02:13pm | 31/10/11

      I bloody well hope not! i cant function with out my daily bacon butty!

    • wonk_arama says:

      12:33pm | 31/10/11

      Joyce met his obligation to give 72hrs notice of the lockout but why didn’t he  give some notice of the grounding to avoid the chaos? Was the safety risk really all of a sudden that bad?  Giving advance notice would’ve allowed those who still call Aust home to get there and he’d have still got his FWA hearing and likely this result. 

      Ok so now  we have 21 days of ‘negotiation’ before forced arbitration commences. Based on the weekends efforts by all sides it’ll be 21 days of media talking points more likely before the umpire calls ‘time’ and drags the parties back in. 

      I can see his point about wanting bring the unions campaign to an end but there were clearly other options available that didn’t see so many people stranded.  

      I wonder if Joyce’s endgame is to use an ‘unfavorable’ FWA arbitration decision to say “Clearly QANTAS can’t function in Australia anymore” and move the whole thing offshore?

    • neil says:

      12:28pm | 31/10/11

      An excellent move by Joyce, he has managed to belt the unions, show up the inadequacy of this incompetent governments IR legislation and make Gillard look like a fool all at the same time. Brilliant!

      Then Gillard kicks an own goal by saying that she didn’t want to intervene because she wasn’t confident the legislation she orchestrated would stand up to legal scrutiny, she’s an IR lawyer FFS, even she believes she is incompetent. 

      The truth is she didn’t want to intervene because she knew the unions were in the wrong and Fair Work Australia would have no choice but to order them to cease industrial action, which is what Joyce has managed to achieve.

    • Sharon says:

      03:03pm | 31/10/11

      I agree, this is why they pay Joyce the big bucks, he is smart. If he hadn’t have taken such drastic action we may have soon been able to hear Richard Branson’s screams of delight all the way to Australia’s shores…

    • MDG says:

      01:18pm | 31/10/11

      Wrong.  Invoking S431 requires a threshold that even your hero Alan Joyce has admitted the union actions didn’t meet- that’s why he grounded the entire fleet, by his own account.  Had the government invoked S431 before the lockout it would have been appealed and ended up before FWA anyway, which (if Joyce is right) would have blocked it.  Gillard and Joyce clearly know more about this than you do, which is why they’re the Prime Minister of Australia and the CEO of a top-ten global airline rather than just an angry poster on the internet.

    • Richard says:

      12:27pm | 31/10/11

      Normal Union spin…....can give it but not take it…....bout time someone stood up to the unions. Watching that blithering fool Paul Howes stand out the front of the Port Kembla Steelworks AFTER 1000 workers and myself lose our jobs made me want to punch him in the face. Lets not worry about what Qantas does with the profit’s of customers…....the joke is what the union “fat cats” do with the profit of WORKERS!!!

    • Phil says:

      06:16pm | 31/10/11

      RIchard it would seem they go to the knock shop with the union credit card. Not all but many.

    • Kika says:

      12:23pm | 31/10/11

      All I can say is Qantas is screwed. We carry on like this when they are ‘grounded’ but then jump on a Virgin, Singapore Airlines or any other local plane in our region instead of forking out the money to pay Australian pilots, engineers and crews to get us to where we want to go.

      Hypocrites.

      Both parties are as bad as each other. I can’t help feel that Alan Joyce did the wrong thing on the weekend. He forced the intervention by everybody else because he lost control of the dispute. Like a 4 year old who has lost an argument with his friend and goes and kicks his friend’s sandcastle over waiting for Mummy to rush over to see what happened.

      Go back to Ryan Air Joyce!  You don’t need to base yourself in Asia. Have a model like Air NZ offering people the choice of a budget seat or to pay more for all the bells and whistles. Give customers what they want and they will fly with you.

    • jf says:

      05:33pm | 31/10/11

      Kika says:01:23pm | 31/10/11

      “Give customers what they want and they will fly with you. “

      Perhaps you want an expensive set with the “bells and whistles”.

      However, I want the choice of discount travel. I want the choice to have a budget seat and not have to pay for the “bells and whistles”.

      Whilst we want different things, under your model you must take what is given or not travel. Under mine, you can opt for your “bells and whistles” and I can opt to not have them.

    • Zeta says:

      12:20pm | 31/10/11

      If all satirists wrote like Geoff Lemon, none of them would have jobs.

    • Steve says:

      02:27pm | 31/10/11

      Kevin Rudd still makes me laugh.

    • St. Michael says:

      01:19pm | 31/10/11

      Somewhere after this took place, the ALP would be introducing the Fair Laughs Act.

    • Steve says:

      12:42pm | 31/10/11

      They all laughed when Geoff said he was going to make his career in comedy.

      Well, they’re not laughing now….

      (apologies to Bob Monkhouse)

    • Freeman says:

      12:35pm | 31/10/11

      and their union would still demand more laughs for less satire

    • Justin says:

      12:17pm | 31/10/11

      But we may now get an international airline that can compete with the rest of the world. You talk rubbish.

    • James1 says:

      12:15pm | 31/10/11

      Whoever is to blame, I will not be flying Qantas any more.  We ended up having our flights cancelled on Sunday, and have had to book through Etihad instead, to fly out this afternoon.  Luckily for us, we could afford to look at different options, and our family holiday is only delayed by a day.  There were plenty of others at the airport who weren’t in such a good position.

      It seems to me that everyone has lost, and will continue to lose, due to the actions of the unions and Qantas management.  Own goals in both cases.

    • jf says:

      01:46pm | 31/10/11

      Everyone has lost but Qantas has not lost as much as they could have had they not brought this to a dramatic halt.

      About two months ago I vowed to never use Telstra again after some apalling customer service.

      However, they have the best network coverage in Australia and I work regionally a lot. So, I’ve decided to not cut off my nose to spite my face and signed up with them.

      As to Qantas - same thing: if they are the best deal on the day, I’ll use them.

    • Kika says:

      12:33pm | 31/10/11

      I agree. They have both only stuffed around their bread and butter - passengers. I think BOTH parties forgot about that fact!

    • Martin says:

      12:15pm | 31/10/11

      The only twats as of this morning were the unions. Comprehensively outsmarted.  Little wonder why Joyce is paid well, takes some guts to do what he did, turned out to be the right move Well done.

    • nossy says:

      12:55pm | 31/10/11

      @Martin   have you been down to centrelink this morning to look for a job yet Martin? We all enjoyed your dribble over the weekend but holidays are over fella!  hahahahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

    • St. Michael says:

      12:11pm | 31/10/11

      “Where unions have to give 72 hours notice of any action, Joyce gave zero hours.”

      The reason being that unions are required by Labor’s own Fair Work Act to give 72 hours notice.  They have that imposition on them because sudden strikes, or “wildcat” strikes, are the union’s biggest weapon for disruption that they have, and they don’t cost the union a dime to do them.

      Lockouts by employers, by contrast, are usually last resort options because of the immense damage it does to the employer.  They stand down their staff and thus don’t have to pay them, but they have to keep them employed, which means at the end of any such strike action they have to take them back on.  The employer haemorrhages money while it does, because it typically can’t get anything done in the interim.  They are extremely rare for that reason.

      “As for the rest of the strike, the TWU has recorded just six hours of industrial action in the past eight months. And according to the Daily Telegraph, a full month of industrial action by engineers in September still saw Qantas cancel fewer flights than the unaffected Jetstar.”

      Irrelevant, and a misuse of the statistics.  It is the threat of industrial action that causes the cancellations across the board, not the action itself.  Which is why the unions were in the news every other day solemnly warning the public of possible strikes or impending strikes or intended strikes which were cancelled at the last minute.  The warnings are because it causes as much if not more damage as the strikes themselves, since if people believe strike action is on its way at Qantas, they won’t book ahead with Qantas either.  A strike called on the day might ground a couple of flights for that day.  The threat of a strike will wipe whole flights for weeks at a time—because of the uncertainty.

      “You can extrapolate, then, what Joyce’s plans for a large Qantas subsidiary based in Asia would mean. If you think the exchange rate is good in Auckland, try Kuala Lumpur. Try Bangkok. Jetstar, which Joyce used to run, is already using Thai crew, who cost a couple of hundred bucks a month. An Australian would earn that in a day.  No wonder they quietly withdrew that John Travolta safety video. “There’s no-one I’d rather have at the controls than a Qantas pilot,” said John. Union scum.”

      They are.  Mostly because safety doesn’t correlate with the nationality of the pilot, which is what this “satirist” is too gutless to say out loud.  Indeed half the reason Qantas is losing its base is because other airlines can fly safely, without a crash, and without having to look like a train car in India to do so.  Qantas’s safety record was its niche, but it doesn’t have that niche anymore.  And saying “they earn about A QUARTAHHH of what an ostrailyun does” is also misusing the point: it doesn’t tell you that this is a fortune to the country of the foreign pilot’s origin.

      Dick Smith’s a bit of a prat most of the time, but his comment on this one when it broke was about right: “If you want Qantas to remain a player internationally, you’ve got two choices.  Either do the same as Emirates and the other international carriers do and have the government “involved in” (read: subsidise) Qantas heavily to compete in the cutthroat international market, or let Qantas shift its costs offshore where it’s a hell of a lot cheaper.  If you don’t want to do either, your choice is either shut down Qantas as an international carrier or shut down Qantas overall.  There are no other choices.”

    • LDLS says:

      03:57pm | 31/10/11

      Best post!

      Such logic will be lost on those who have failed to look at this issue from both sides. In today’s world few people bother using logic.  Easier to throw out strawmen arguments and use the proverbial us v them mentality.

      Thanks for the reprieve from stupidity.

    • Ayden says:

      03:25pm | 31/10/11

      Great post. You mate, are some one who sees the big picture and use common sense in your commentary. The quality of journalism (if you can call some of the articles that) left much to be desired nowadays.

    • Anna C says:

      02:43pm | 31/10/11

      I totally agree with St. Michael and Dick Smith’s assessment of the situation. When the government opened up our market to international carriers it meant that Qantas had three options open to it (1) Move their labour and costs offshore like their competition (2) Renationalisation (3) Go KAPUT. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. 

      Qantas is a great Aussie icon but if they can’t complete with other international carriers who can provide cheaper fares well then they are as dead as a dodo.

    • Anna C says:

      02:10pm | 31/10/11

      I totally agree with St. Michael and Dick Smith’s assessment of the situation. When the government opened up our market to international carriers it meant that Qantas had three options open to it (1) Move their labour and costs offshore like their competition (2) Renationalisation (3) Go Kaputt. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. 

      Qantas is a great Aussie icon but if they can’t complete with other international carriers who can provide cheaper fares well then they are as dead as a dodo.

    • Just Sayin' says:

      01:17pm | 31/10/11

      How dare you! Clearly, Aussies are far superior people, and are therefore far better qualified to be pilots than the brown and yellow scum found off our shores.

      (I hope Poe’s Law doesn’t bite me in the backside)

    • Maree says:

      01:01pm | 31/10/11

      Question: Does a union have to give 72 hours notice when cancelling strick action ?

    • lucy says:

      12:51pm | 31/10/11

      Brilliant - totally agree

    • Another Chris says:

      12:32pm | 31/10/11

      You, Sir, have made the best post on this blog. Thank you.

      Geoff has had his inflammatory rant and probably gone to stir the pot on something else by now.

    • youdy beaudy says:

      12:09pm | 31/10/11

      It’s all about the shareholders of qantas i suppose at the end of the day. It takes two to tango so the unions must take some of the blame. But really it’s a lot of fuss about nothing and if qantas closed its doors some other airline could be created to take the business. It’s about business and business is business.

      Qantas is a public company and has to answer to its shareholders doesn’t it. The unions must take some of the blame as it takes two to tango so they can’t be completely innocent in the matter and at the end of the day even it they closed the doors completely then the employees would go on with a newly generated airline and that airline would have an instant customer base.

      The flying kangaroo indeed. See the universe out there people well cry to that because it doesn’t give a shite about qantas. It’s not important. I mean how gave a shite when Ansett closed up and where did the pilots and employees go from there even tho bob hawke bailed his mate ansett out with public money.

      The company qantas has been downrated for a long time now over problems with safety on their planes and have they done anything, well i hope so. It’s alright being nostalgic about the so called Australian flying flagship but people just want to get there, to their destination, and any company who leaves them stranded doesn’t deserve to be in the marketplace. Maybe Sir Richard Branson could start up a newey and save them all after all he is a good decent businessman, that’s how he worked his way up from a small company, because he had a good vision and he supplies and does what he says.

      Soon he will have his interspace airline going and that will be good but probably inaffordable for the ordinary man, but futuristically will become available to all. Qantas, not important. Qantas employees. They will be picked up somewhere else like the Ansett employees. Not a hardie really.

      As far as the ceo of Qantas goes, well, he must be pretty bloody good at his job for them to pay him all that money. There are other international airlines that can take up the slack, like Garuda Indonesia for instance. Now i’ve never flown qantas but jetstar, same company, they were good to NZ, but Qantas, no.

      People make mountains out of molehills. Qantas, not important when there is more fruit in the fruitbasket and maybe a bit sweeter also. Don’t worry everyone it’s just make you sick. When there is a strike then the employees don’t get paid, but those union bosses, well, they get paid lots, they don’t lose anything while the good workers realise that no money is flowing in to pay their mortgages and other bills of life. Strikes don’t always bring good results for the worker because if the work out what they lose in salaries any increases are basically destroyed in the process and those Judges in the commission make a motsa. Just go back to work and be thankfull that you have a job to go to because many don’t and the increase should be looked at by the government and duely increased according to the movement of the cpi like pensions etc and then everyone will gain and keep up with the current inflationary trends.

    • CP says:

      12:07pm | 31/10/11

      Honestly, why do you people even bother reading articles like this, which you so clearly do not understand?

    • Steve says:

      02:24pm | 31/10/11

      You are so clever CP.  When Tony Sheldon moves from head of the TWU to head of the ALP everything will be ok.

    • Sony B Goode says:

      12:06pm | 31/10/11

      Another socialist gets to suck lemons. Komrades Gillard anti business and pro union FWA has her hoist by her own petards.

      Joyce will be remembered long after Gillards prosperity destruction agenda has long gone.The only regime that lied its way into the job is that of Komrade Gillard and her Kommunist Klowns looking to destroy prosperity where ever and whenever it is found.

    • Esteban says:

      01:37pm | 31/10/11

      Korrect Kall

    • MDG says:

      01:09pm | 31/10/11

      The ‘c’ button is in between the ‘x’ and the ‘v’.  Just in case you were looking for it.

    • Sarah says:

      12:03pm | 31/10/11

      Ohn well, Qantas shares are up 5% this morning, so Joyce has certainly done the right thing for the company’s future in the market’s eyes.

    • Kurisu Sonsaku says:

      12:02pm | 31/10/11

      Sweet Cheeses on a stick Geoff you must be a frontrunner for Twat of the Year 2011, did you bother to do any research before you penned this bilge.

      The announcement was made on Saturday that operations would cease 8pm Monday, in the interests of safety, operations were ceased 5pm Saturday. (Safety first, OHS & all).

      Joyces payrise was voted on by a clear majority of the shareholders, you know, the people who actually have skin in the game. What you fail to mention was that Joyces salary component is actually lower than what he gets now and the rest is performance linked bonus schedules. (which he may or may not get)

      If you want to get your panties in a twist at least get your facts straight.

      So what else do we have??, innocent unions who acted in such good faith and didn’t inconvenience anyone, even those off to visit terminal relatives. Good god man this isn’t satire it’s sophomoric scribbling.

    • Kurisu Sonsaku says:

      04:49pm | 31/10/11

      OK Marto i’ll play;

      1. I didn’t mention the mechanics of institutional investors let alone hedge funds nor did i outline how the average punter acts at an AGM.

      So i’ll conclude that you are just a bloviating windbag to make yourself feel relevant.

      2.  “By moving staffing and operations offshore he knows that the cost of labour will decrease enough to trigger performance bonuses for when seat margins and profit increase.”

      No, you are speculating that Joyce will move international operations to an offshore hub. If he does do that then Qantas will stop bleeding 200m/year on its long haul and return more than the current 1.67%
      Also Qantas is returning about 4 per cent on the capital employed – well below the cost of the capital. It is only a matter of time unless there is radical change.


      3. “you have got to stop listening to Alan Jones as a means of truth”

      Alan Jones is not on the radio in Melborne or Kobe so that is just twee squeeking on your part.

      4. “Fair Work Australia has to approve any industrial action”

      You mean protected industrial action under the FWA Act, do try to get it right. What this Act has done has emboldened the unions to seek unrealistic claims and has allowed faux protected industrial action

      5. “If you were working for a company that was surreptitiously looking to move your job overseas to save coin”

      Prove it or STFU

      6. “would you want a representative body fighting this for you”

      Considering i can negotiate my own contract i’ll back myself. Get real.
      Most importantly don”t forget that Ansett was voted Employer of the Year by the ACTU in the year before it went broke. Something in that.

      I’ll sit back and watch the pretty colours as i watch you crash and burn you patronising goon.

    • Marto says:

      03:56pm | 31/10/11

      @Kurisu - if you do not understand the mechanics of institutional investors (hedge funds and the like) and proxy voting then please do not comment on it.  Do you really think that the room was filled with baby boomers holding their share certificates aloft whilst voting ‘aye’ and ‘nay’?  His KPI’s for bonus are linked to profit amongst other things, and with the international arm of the airline bleeding, he knows the best way to reduce overheads is to cut labour costs.  By moving staffing and operations offshore he knows that the cost of labour will decrease enough to trigger performance bonuses for when seat margins and profit increase.

      Hedge funds do not care for anything other than sustainable ROI.  As long as Joyce delivers this, big business will throw their support behind his actions.

      I appreciate that you may not have the greatest love for unions and fair enough, but you have got to stop listening to Alan Jones as a means of truth.  Fair Work Australia has to approve any industrial action, and for them to do so was a result of them deeming that the relevant unions had significant enough grievances that have not been acted on.  If you were working for a company that was surreptitiously looking to move your job overseas to save coin, would you want a representative body fighting this for you, or would you back yourself in a meeting with HR?  Get real…

    • LDLS says:

      03:48pm | 31/10/11

      @neo
      You are wrong.
      Shareholders voted for his bonus at the AGM.  One of those shareholders spoke on radio to inform commentators that shareholders at the meeting were happy to vote yes and it was a vote of confidence for Joyce he stated.  Just to clear up the misconceptions coming out on Friday.

      try again - this time with facts not assumptions

    • Kurisu Sonsaku says:

      01:34pm | 31/10/11

      @ Kika, you’ve gone from questioning how many shareholders vote no to asserting it as a fact.

      I’ll reiterate - unless you know the thoughts of Qantas non-institutional investors then this is a meaningless statement on your part, to assert that hey rarely vote against anything impllies that you know the thoughts of the shareholders from the time they get the notice of AGM & Agenda.

      You would have done your case more service heading down the route of,  non-institutional investers assign their votes to proxys who may or may not rarely vote no.

    • neo says:

      01:25pm | 31/10/11

      His salary got approved by the corporations who hold the majority of the shares, not by individuals.

    • Andrew says:

      01:22pm | 31/10/11

      I agree with Kika, i don’t know whether it is because they don’t feel like their small holdings would affect anything or whether they just have complete faith in management and will do whatever they say, poor understanding of what is being asked, maybe a combination of them all, they will rarely vote in any other way except how the directors reccomend they should. The institutional investors guided by proxy firms understand the concepts a bit more and are usually the ones to take a stand, as they have larger holdings this is probably a good thing.

      The fact that they bought Qantas shares personally leads me to question their decision making abilities from the start but that is me personally. I think as iconic as the company is, it just isn’t and never will be a good investment.

    • Jason says:

      01:21pm | 31/10/11

      All investors are given the chance to vote via a proxy form which is sent out to everyone.  If the investor chooses not to vote, then that’s their fault.

    • Kurisu Sonsaku says:

      01:13pm | 31/10/11

      @ Kate, yes you’re probably right, but what Joyce did was play the ‘safety/OHS’  card straight from the union playbook to his advantage to bring this to a head.

    • Kika says:

      01:09pm | 31/10/11

      No it’s not. It’s fact. Non institutional shareholders rarely vote against anything.

    • Kate says:

      01:00pm | 31/10/11

      I think I will apply Ockham’s razor to Joyce’s statement about having to shut down the airline suddenly for safety reasons.  Is it more likely that this got him the publicity and result he wanted or more likely that a pilot would crash a plane full of people to annoy him??

    • Kurisu Sonsaku says:

      12:54pm | 31/10/11

      @ Kika you’re speculating, unless you know the thoughts of Qantas non-institutional investors then this is a meaningless statement on your part.

    • fairsfair says:

      12:31pm | 31/10/11

      As always, love your work Kurisu. I’m tittering away at your opening paragraph.

    • Kika says:

      12:26pm | 31/10/11

      Oh please… how many shareholders actually ever vote no on anything? A lot of Qantas shareholders are just everyday investors who can’t be bothered going to these meetings and don’t believe their vote counts to anything.

    • sir ronald bradnam says:

      12:02pm | 31/10/11

      Whilst no excuse to shut the airline down as he did, I can understand the frustration of having to deal with a bunch of unions,
      He, being given a payrise of 71% the day before made him look like a total d…head especially when he says the airline cant afford to pay the workers demands.
      The market tends to see through all the hyperbole from politicians which is why we now see the share price for qantas up approx 6% so far today, because he is doing what needs to be done for the long term future of the company. As you will also note despite the billions and trillions of dollars thrown at different economies all over the world by useless pollies and governments, markets continue to languish, this is because it is the wrong thing to do and the market reacts.
      Just fly anywhere is asia to see the influence of Jetstar and it is clear as day where the airlines future lies, so needs to have a low cost base to stay competitive.
      It never fails to amaze as to why, unions and their leaders who propose to be so clever dont set up their own airline, or buy their own airline to run because they are always telling management and shareholders how it should be done, same in all industires really.
      Joyce should go no question but the message wont change, this bloated conglomerate needs to change to stay competitive or it wont survive.
      By the way Qantas isnt even in the top 10 airlines in the world so actually isnt considered ‘one of the worlds biggest’.

    • sir ronald bradnam says:

      05:23pm | 31/10/11

      MM….out of 10 key indicatorsqantas is number 8 in one and ten in the other. Overall doesnt even come close in the top 5 indicators.

    • Mad mick says:

      02:16pm | 31/10/11

      Ron it’s number eight!!

    • sir ronald bradnam says:

      01:18pm | 31/10/11

      simon….not even in the top 10.

    • SimonFromLakemba says:

      01:05pm | 31/10/11

      Well it was number 2, now number 8 I believe since he took over.

    • Steve says:

      12:39pm | 31/10/11

      add journalists to the list of people who know so much more than CEOs and managers.

    • Keith Hammersmith says:

      11:52am | 31/10/11

      Well he got the government to act,  something they were not going to do.  Sounds like his ballsy decision paid off.  As for this article,  seems to me like another “journo” on $70k/year doesn’t understand big business decisions of a CEO of a Major company - no real surprise there.
      Unions were basically demanding that QANTAS remain and or become un profitable, not unlike ANSETT….
      Something had to be done to end the BS,  something was done,  some people were “inconvenienced”  oh no..
      Alan believes that if something wasn’t done then QANTAS would slowly die,  and the 38000 people employed would then not be. 
      The media spin on this has an obvious bias,  yet no one has offered an alternative solution to making QANTAS profitable again,  so let the man keep doing his job.

    • Keith Hammersmith says:

      12:36am | 01/11/11

      hey Robyn,  only QANTAS’s domestic arm is profitable,  the international arm is bleeding money.  Thats what this is all about.

    • Peter says:

      10:48pm | 31/10/11

      Keith, you don’t have to support the unions’ position to see that Qantas’ conduct was unreasonable. You know what? I actually support Qantas in the underlying dispute. BUT Lemon’s critique, rant or whatever you want to call it stands up irrespective of the arguments behind the overall dispute.

      No matter how justified Qantas is in the dispute, it was totally unjustified for the company to ground the fleet like this, which was a cynical strategic move showing a complete disregard to customers.

      What Qantas’ PR flacks are now trying to do is conflate (1) the grounding of the fleet and (2) the industrial dispute, when in actual fact, the latter did not cause the former. You’ve fallen for that strategy hook, line and sinker.

    • Robyn says:

      04:59pm | 31/10/11

      Qantas is already profitable and thinks only of shareholders but without the average worker there wouldn’t be a company. Get your planes serviced in Asia and you shall see the corruption affect everything and everyone.

    • Keith Hammersmith says:

      04:52pm | 31/10/11

      yes Paul,  business’s try to make money.  If they don’t make money, they go out of business.  When they are out of business, they don’t employ anyone.

    • Nic says:

      04:05pm | 31/10/11

      What’s your solution then Paul? That companies remain uncompetitive and go bankrupt because the public won’t support them?

      Would you pay an extra $200 per flight on QANTAS over Virgin if it meant keeping overpaid Australian unionists in jobs? Or would you write a post about how greedy QANTAS was and watch as it went under?

      Or would you prefer that the Government prop up failed industries, to pretend they’re competitive? In which case you pay far more than that $200 difference, because un-competitive industries don’t attract the best staff, they attract the staff who go to work for places that can’t or won’t fire them.

      It can be like the rail or power debacles we saw so many years ago.

      Rail against greed all you like, but unless you have an alternative for efficiency then it’s all pointless hubris.

    • gk says:

      03:59pm | 31/10/11

      your reference to Ansett is interesting, since Joyce was on their prior to their collapse…

    • JRM says:

      03:47pm | 31/10/11

      Too right. I think Julia and Albanese are upset because they finally had to DO something.  And who cares whether they were told or not - a shutdown was always a possibility.  And the FWA - which was supposed to be better than Workchoices for workers -  this time backfired on the niggly Unions. Beautiful. I think Joyce’s call was a masterstroke.  Used one sledge hamer and wiped out a million annoying tacks.  Businessman of the year.

    • Paul says:

      01:49pm | 31/10/11

      What none of u realise is…QANTAS will no longer be Australian in 5 years under Joyce… Most employees will be foreign, paid pittance, and why??? To make shareholders money,...Isn’t competition GREAT! You see it with most Multi National businesses, MONEY MEANS EVERYTHING AND F^%&K the worker/public/the no-body…..And whilst people are bashing Unions and enjoying there Public Holiday, remember why you have 10 Public Hols a year, 40/36 hour week, 4 weeks annual leave, ect, ect,ect….and why aussies can afford a plane ticket and not risking it in a leaky boat (UNIONS!).

    • Phil says:

      11:51am | 31/10/11

      Lets see what happens when they go back to work. I predict a hugh increase in lost bags and delayed flights for technical reasons. Qantas is going to be the most unreliable airline in existance, and Joyce will be to blame

    • Max, of Rocky says:

      05:08pm | 31/10/11

      Joyce carrying bags, losing them, dropping spanners in the works, give me a break,  what a load of cr*p!

      Only the unionists are capable of doing these illegal actions as they do the work.

      If only they could understand that to continue with this nonsense will make things worse (and quicker).  The shareholders are on managements side, they see the savings and have approved them.

      They should be helping with the savings to retain as many jobs as they can.

      With the International flights losing about $200 million a year and the rest financing this, plus the losses so far to union whims, why in any fashion would they be tolerant of more disruption proposed.?

      If the unions keep this up how many more excuses will they provide to transfer jobs overseas?

    • Laura says:

      02:24pm | 31/10/11

      :( haha don’t give them any ideas to ruin peoples trips. I hope they don’t start playing up like that. They obviously have no respect for their customers which is ridiculous. At work we are taught that if you don’t do your job properly, it means you are telling the customer that you have no respect for them and they are not getting what they paid for.

    • Sasha says:

      01:39pm | 31/10/11

      The unions are stupid enough to pull a stunt like this. They obviously havent thought through their actions to date, so why would they now.

    • Jason says:

      01:17pm | 31/10/11

      You know Phil, you might just be right.  The union’s and there members may just be stupid enough to destroy the airline through actions like that.  Of course then they’ll all be out of a job and, at best, will end up having to take big pay cuts if they can manage to get a job at a competitor, but hey at least they’ll be ‘sticking it to the capitalist pigs’.

    • Farkin says:

      11:50am | 31/10/11

      oh mu god a Alan Joyce is Irish now that explains a lot

    • Dan says:

      11:50am | 31/10/11

      68000+ pissed off, angry, let-down people. . . . . . . .

      Surely they will have short memories and forgive easily . . . . . . .

      This all reminds me of that “napoleon type” guy who ran Telstra.

    • Against the Man says:

      01:40pm | 31/10/11

      Just remind them about the carbon tax and they’ll re-focus their anger on the current excuse of a so called government wink

    • Super D says:

      11:44am | 31/10/11

      Nice rant.  In a months time the shutdown will be forgotten by most people who were in no way affected.  Brand damage will be virtually nil.  The unions will be faced with an arbitrated settlement which won’t give them any of the nonsense they’ve been demanding.  In short Mr Joyce has well and truly earned his paypacket.

    • Lloyd says:

      04:07pm | 31/10/11

      Neo: if you’re going to attack someone’s grammar, make sure your own is spotless: world, word….smile

    • neo says:

      03:09pm | 31/10/11

      @ Rod:

      1. Why did you capitalise my handle? Respect? Web illiteracy?
      2. What do you mean by “black mailing”? Sending people black notes in the mail? Getting dark skinned people to send out a newsletter?
      3. Why did you first capitalise Qantas, but failed to do so in your second sentence?
      4. Why do you refer to me as “the Neo”? If you consider my handle a name, why did you use the definite article “the” in front of it?
      5. How do you spell the world “obviously”?
      6. How can you determine if a person has an identity problem from his name alone?
      7. How can you tell whether a person has lost one of his eyes or, alternatively, was born with one eye, from a comment posted on a discussion board?

    • Steve says:

      02:06pm | 31/10/11

      Well done Mr Joyce. Like all typical bullies, the unions can dish it out but can’t take it.
      Why dont the TWU and Airline pilots go and work for another company if Qantas is so bad and the other airlines are so good?

    • Rod says:

      02:01pm | 31/10/11

      @Neo - Qantas black mailing unions. Mmmmm, its alright for the unions to black mail qantas though. I think the Neo (whose abviously got an identity problem with a name like that), is someone one eyed. As for Geoff Lemon, well he’s definately a lemon in every sense..

    • neo says:

      01:20pm | 31/10/11

      Blackmailing the government into cancelling the strike, while tarnishing the reputation of the company and delaying flights for even more people? Good work indeed.

    • Bob says:

      11:44am | 31/10/11

      A message brought and paid for by the hard earned and handed over funds of union members for the ACTU.

    • Fat Andy says:

      09:44am | 01/11/11

      Bob, a bit delusional mate. They don’t come much more independent and unaffiliated than Geoff. Why not have an honest look into the points that the authour makes in this article? I mean, if he’s got the facts right, then Joyce pulled something dazzlingly cynical, destructive and sleazy on the Auistralian public. How, exactly do you defend these actions other than making false accusations against the authour?

    • Sodapoppy says:

      06:17pm | 31/10/11

      Our greedy, egotistical union leaders, and their predecessors, now keeping seats warm in Canberra, have just about ruined Australia with their ridiculous wage demands. When the joint is finally stuffed, blame the unions and their leaders

    • Oxspit says:

      02:28pm | 31/10/11

      You disagree…. so I suppose you must necessarily have been paid by QANTAS, right?

      Grow up.

    • fairsfair says:

      11:43am | 31/10/11

      All I know is, he would not have pulled this if Oprah was on her way down under…. remember how she went off stuck on the top of the bridge while the chopper refueled (the fact it took way longer than expected for her to haul her ass up those stairs made no difference )? For the love of god I don’t even want to imagine the fallout if her audience of chosen ones had been stranded in Bangers en route….

      I am glad its on its way to resolution anyway. All I know is, I look at little Irish Alan with a different view these days. He’s got some nuts.

    • jf says:

      01:30pm | 31/10/11

      Damian Parkhill says:12:51pm | 31/10/11

      “Maybe the Government should buy back the company? (not to mention it really shouldn’t have been sold in the first place)”

      More choice and cheaper travel makes me very glad that they did.

    • fairsfair says:

      12:29pm | 31/10/11

      Its extremely profitable and no doubt will recover from this with time. Why would the govt buy it back? The Govt don’t care - they should have intervened much sooner than now. I just caught some of Julia Gillard’s press conference and she must have said “we” about fifty times. Too little too late I am afraid.

      Australians need to let go of Qantas. It was sold of long ago. Why do we have such a sentimental attachment? I had this discussion with my parents over the weekend - they are just so out of touch with reality purely because “its “our” airline and some Irish clown is running it”. Um no, it’s a multinational corporation with a head office in Australia and it’s CEO was deemed the best person for the job irrespective of nationality.

      I feel sorry for the people directly affected by this, but my organisation for one has shifted all corporate travel away from Qantas in recent weeks due to the Industrial action. They were losing customers and had to do something. As soon as this is resolved we will resume patronage of the airline.

      The media is so worried about what effect this will have on the economy? Well here’s a thought. Stop bad mouthing the airline because it is only worsening the effects. Qantas holds a massive share of passenger volumes that can not be made up by the other airlines and we have grandstanding people in high places saying “I’ll never fly Qantas again”. Individuals have the right to hold that opinion yes, but just imagine how those comments are being presented overseas? The fallout is going to be worse then the act itself. If they didn’t do it though, what should they have done?

    • Damian Parkhill says:

      11:51am | 31/10/11

      I personally think Joyce is another Sol…... and I wouldn’t be surprised if in a years time he leaves, leaving the company in a complete mess with a multi-million dollar handshake while screaming to the rest of the world how racist we all are….........

      Maybe the Government should buy back the company? (not to mention it really shouldn’t have been sold in the first place)

    • Erick says:

      11:42am | 31/10/11

      Oooh, someone’s upset because his precious unions got beaten at their own game.

    • Terry says:

      06:35pm | 01/11/11

      And as for “... the TWU has recorded just six hours of industrial action in the past eight months”, tell it like it is, fool!  What’s the total hours of inconvenience they caused?  Many MANY more times they announced they’d be going on strike so the company had to cancel and delay flights.  Then at the last minute, the strike was called off so their members would have to be paid!

    • colroe says:

      03:39pm | 01/11/11

      Erick, I always enjoy your comments, and for the most part agree.  However, recently, I have noticed that you are replying to personal attacks.  Pls dont, it is demeaning and takes some of the validity from your comments.  A well reasoned reply to your comments should be the standard, and it defeats the fools who must resort to name calling.

    • Fat Andy says:

      09:16am | 01/11/11

      Lucy mentions “union thuggery”. Can somebody please provide an example of union thuggery in this? Even an example of less than meek action would be surprising, I know that this thuggery exists in many people’s imaginations, but this is the real world, and there was never anything even vaguely approximating “thuggery” by the unions at any stage.

      Yet, Joyce indulged in monumental sleaze, he acted in a fashion that makes the imagined “thuggery” look positively benevolent. It’s strange that he gets off the hook so easily with a certain type of person.

    • Lee Enfield says:

      08:05am | 01/11/11

      The Bears Wife: Firstly you don’t know me or what I do for a living. I don’t work for Qantas, and if you are too stupid to get that through your thick skull that is your problem.
      As for calling me sub human scum, well, wouldn’t expect anything less from someone clearly in a Union, afterall, name calling, threats, bullying, intimidation and even death threats are straight out of the Union playbook. Unluckily for Australia, Unions and their leaders are generally made up of the less intelligent members of our society. They have to resort to the Union playbook, as their lack of intelligence severely limits their ability to argue reasonably and logically. The current govt is a testament to the level of intelligence and ability of unionists.
      The unions are the ones not willing to negotiate. The Unions are the ones making riddiculous claims, like two Qantas paid union officials to the tune of $1million a year, the unions are the ones who want an agreement in place which dictates how the airline is run in all facets of operations. You fail to mention that Qantas staff already enjoy a lot of travel subsidies as part of their agreement.

      Enjoy your industrial action and battle for Union relevance in Australia where the work force is becoming increasingly non-unionised. Keep name callling, and using the union playbook, complete with pop up pictures for easy reading for union members. If the unions get what they want, their members won’t have to worry about pay rises and increased travel subsidies, they will have to worry about finding a new job, and with the Unions losing relevance in Australia, they actually might have to work for their money.

    • Tom says:

      07:40am | 01/11/11

      Whoever acts unfairly it’s still a low act…no warning is a low act….some warning should have been given….your comment is catty

    • Erick says:

      07:27am | 01/11/11

      @Bear’s Wife - Wow, what a paranoid rant!

      Why is it that you can’t conceive of the possibility that others could hold an informed opinion without being paid for it? Is it projection?

    • Harvey says:

      12:56am | 01/11/11

      As if, Erick. You’re the most totally predictable troll on the Punch.

    • Steve Putnam says:

      07:22pm | 31/10/11

      Right on cue the Punch website’s resident Dickensian misanthrope Erick; ignoring the important stuff and gloating at what he perceives to be a victory for a grossly overpaid senior executive. Does anyone really think those 70,000 people Joyce shat on are ever going to fly QANTAS again? As a result of this piece of bastardry QANTAS’s once iconic status isn’t worth a cap full of cold water.

    • Dave-o says:

      06:52pm | 31/10/11

      Union thuggery, how dare the pilots wear red ties. I for one support Alan Joyce in his attempt to bankrupt the airline to snub out this clear communist threat of pilots wearing red ties.

    • Lee Enfield says:

      04:44pm | 31/10/11

      Why didn’t the author mention that international Pilots Association (AKA Pilots union) want Qantas to fund two full time union officials to the tune of $1million a year.
      Why didn’t the Author mention that the Engineers and Transport Workers Union want an agreement where Qantas cannot change any of the work practices current in place including processess and machinery.
      The pilots want 2.5% increase per year for three years, the Baggage handlers want 5% per year for three years plus an extra 1% per year increase for their Superannuation. The Engineeers want 5.33% increase per year for the next three years. 
      Plus there are a whole heap of freebies, upgrades and other demands not made mention of by the Unions. The unions want the public to think all this is about pay, it isn’t, this is really about the Unions flexing their muscle and power in a bid to tell Qantas how to the business.
      This article leaves out all the dodgy agreements the Unions want put in place, which also happen to be the major sticking points between the Unions and Qantas.

    • Erick says:

      02:57pm | 31/10/11

      @Rocksteady - You have no idea what affects me, nor how I would respond.

      Your assumption is just an assumption, based on your own prejudices and nothing else.

    • Joel says:

      01:28pm | 31/10/11

      @Lucy: even if it costs more? Do your customers/clients/shareholders have a say in that?

    • Lucy says:

      12:48pm | 31/10/11

      The grounding affected me greatly - I had employees overseas, and interstae all trying to get home.
      I support his action - only way to shut the union thuggery up. None of my employees are too bothered either. We will all still fly QF to support his decision

    • Rocksteady says:

      12:23pm | 31/10/11

      Erick, I read your posts everyday and can easily say you’d be up in arms if it actually affected you.

    • Another Chris says:

      12:23pm | 31/10/11

      Or a Wild Onyx.

    • fairsfair says:

      12:09pm | 31/10/11

      lol. Too true.

      Just imagine if he had’ve shot a Giraffe though….

    • Mahhrat says:

      12:08pm | 31/10/11

      Heh.

    • ZSRenn says:

      12:07pm | 31/10/11

      Agreed. This looks like a 5 year olds dummy spit because he only got 1 piece of Candy and somebody else got 2. Complete with he said she said. Its’s not fair, 1/2 truths, outright lies and a big long whine.

    • Geoff Cass says:

      11:42am | 31/10/11

      Anothe totally incorrect affirmation -  or a deliberate lie?  There was no request/demand for increased pay !!  What was given to Alan Joyce was a bonus of a large number of QANTAS shares, not wirth much today, but perhaps worth something if Joyce can get QANTAS back into the air.
      If these ““experts” are going to have teir comments printed, gthey ought to be made to get them accurate !!!

    • Cate says:

      12:21pm | 02/11/11

      Lita I agree with you, but please don’t insult the pig.  He is a devil along with Strong and especially Geoff Dixon.
      Bullies to the core.  I read somewhere that CEO’s are psycopaths.  I think this could hit the nail on the head.
      No on seems to want to know the history of this savage attack by the Qantas Board.  They have been syphoning profit from Qantas for decades and putting it in other areas.  There are at least two sets of books. Where there is a secretive board there is corruption and self serving interest. Once again this has nothing to do with the union nor politics.  It was a well orchestrated plan in the making for a long time by the Qantas Board.
      Lay blame in the correct area and you may get some very interesting results. Once again I am not a unionist.  On this occasion it is the fault of the Board and their bloody mindedness.  I do no quite a bit of the history behind Qantas and my conclusion is pretty damned accurate.  The Qantas Board just loves those people blaming the union.  You are playing right into their hands.
      I’m keeping my focus on the Qantas board. This is where all the mysterious answers to questions are hidden.

    • Lita says:

      08:11pm | 31/10/11

      Geoff Cass, more shares is still an increase. If you want to defend Joyce, please feel free to accompany him back to Ireland !

      Joyce is a pig, and QANTAS’ lawyers should be hunted down and sent to an Asian country to earn the same wages as Joyce plans that his Asian based QANTAS staff to earn.

    • Paul says:

      06:09pm | 31/10/11

      He did take his medicine. He’s still not on as much as he was pre GFC….

    • Leslie says:

      04:31pm | 31/10/11

      The New York stock exchange opens tomorrow, let’s see what happens then hmmm

    • random says:

      01:49pm | 31/10/11

      The remuneration (regardless of whether it actually amounts to much in monetary value - the potential value is the point)  was idiotic and stupid in the message it sent. If things are not good financially, and you’re asking everyone to take their medicine, then take yours too at the same time. He could have knocked it back but didn’t and the message in that is hypocrasy and hubris. 
      The shame is that BOTH SIDES are actually RIGHT. You can’t run at a loss when the opposition doesn’t have to; but equally you can’t claim poor when you’re not.
      The real bogey in the room is actually FUEL costs. Fuel and Staff cost the most, but everyone just blythely accepts fuel as an immovable overhead, and thus the financial attack falls onto Staff costs. Fuel refining margins (ie Oil company profits) have been steadily rising in recent years. Surely this is the common enemy of both management and staff at airlines the world over.
      The tribunal needs to find true compromise - neither should leave this claiming the moral high ground as really either everyone should win, or everyone should lose - cause they’re both on the same side!

    • Mark says:

      01:28pm | 31/10/11

      The Righteous One- Alright Neo, if you meet targets at your job and point the company in a sustainable and profitable direction, would you expect a bonus? The hypocrisy of the left- one of the only enduring traits of communism.

    • The righteous one says:

      11:52am | 31/10/11

      they went up 8Cents this morning alone, Any struggle by Joyce to get Qantas back in the air, is of his own making and the comments are correct unlike your spelling

 

Facebook Recommendations

Read all about it

Punch live

Up to the minute Twitter chatter

Anthony Sharwood

#markwebber just wasted petrol faster than everyone else in monaco #f1

Anthony Sharwood

In my sports column on The Punch tomorrow: why Eurovision was easily the best game on the weekend. Mummy bloggers, you'll like this one!

Daniel Piotrowski

The Logies could learn a lot from Eurovision #lamethings#sbseurovision

Daniel Piotrowski

RT @ellehardytweets: Already despondent about the next fifty one weeks. #sbseurovision

Recent posts

The latest and greatest

Abbott’s crass logic: trash the Parliament in order save it

Abbott’s crass logic: trash the Parliament in order save it

An email was sent to almost every politician in Australia this week saying that someone should cut off…

Our special forces don’t always need special treatment

Our special forces don’t always need special treatment

We admire them, but we’re not entirely sure why. We allow them to operate in the shadows; we rarely…

A good holiday is about unrest, not rest

A good holiday is about unrest, not rest

Like a fat full-stop, it lay in my hand. A small orange – not exactly fresh, but purchased anyway…

Gentle jabs to the ribs

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

A private school girl’s family is sueing her elite, extremely expensive private school for not… Read more

243 comments

Newsletter

Read all about it

Sign up to the free daily Punch newsletter