Over its 122-year history, the Labor party has suffered three major internal cataclysms. In 1917, the issue of conscription saw leader Billy Hughes take many Labor members with him across to the Liberal party. It took years for Labor to recover.

Jack Lang demonstrating the Labor values

In 1930, the depression saw Jack Lang leave the party, form his own, and wreak havoc with Labor support for a decade. In 1955, the issue of communism saw many Catholic members of the Labor party defect to the DLP. This kept Labor out of office for a generation.

The Gillard versus Rudd affair reached a preliminary climax on Monday. The 71-31 vote appears conclusive. But the word “preliminary” is necessary, as some fundamental issues are left hanging.

First, none of the previous internal disputes involved such venomous language and vitriolic attacks as the past week or so. The Gillard camp, especially, could only be described as using poisonous ferocity. The Rudd camp was also far from genteel.

Can these caucus members, who spent a week attempting to destroy the reputation, credibility and character of their colleagues, now re-unite and work together? If they do, then much of what was said during the fracas was hypocrisy. If they do not, then the Labor government is almost certainly doomed to ignominious defeat in 2013.

Second, the government and the party now has to decide just what it believes in, what it stands for, and what its ideology is. In simple terms, what content is there left in the historic “light on the hill”? Before and during the fracas, Julia Gillard seemed to depend on vacuous mantras: “getting the job done”; “this is the Australian way, we follow it because we are us”; “Labor says yes to Australia’s future”.

During the depths of the internecine battle, Kevin Rudd was accused of not holding “Labor values”. Is anyone in the Labor party able to provide a clear description of what these are? Some of the Labor caucus were members of the 2007-10 Rudd ministry. In the past few days they have reviled him and his style. Yet they worked with him until the 2010 coup.

Third, during the battle over leadership, Julia Gillard seemed to ignore the flat-lined polls for the last year. In fact, the few days of passionate debate appeared as two ships passing: Gillard with a “crew” of most of the cabinet and caucus arguing that it was not a matter of polls, but of “getting the job done”; Rudd with a “crew” of a majority of Australian voters clearly favouring him. 

During the crisis, Julia Gillard appealed to the Labor caucus, and secured a solid vote of support. Kevin Rudd appealed on the basis that he had a clear lead among the voters, and had a better chance of winning the next election. Will Julia Gillard now be able to convince the voters that their opinions matter?

Fourth, Kevin Rudd promised no second challenge if he lost. He will join the back bench. But that does not mean that there will not be another leadership change. Unless the polls shift decisively in favour of Labor in the next few months, at least to the point of having a chance to win, then there will be a solid collection of very nervous Labor backbenchers looking for a leader who can bring support.

My non-scientific poll of a random sample of voters brought a unanimous response: a plague on the whole lot of them. The fracas was damaging for Labor, but also apparently for the whole political process. All politicians need now to focus on the best policies for Australia and Australians, not on themselves.

128 comments

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    • Sony B Goode says:

      04:55am | 29/02/12

      Labor is yesterday’s party destroying Australia’s future, today. It has not a single ideology piece of bedrock to rely on. Every single one of its grotesque core values has failed the test of time.

      Time to put the Australian Losers Party out to pasture.

    • Nathan says:

      05:52am | 29/02/12

      “Every single one of its grotesque core values has failed the test of time”
      Historically or Currently? What is the Labor parties ideology or core values?

    • acotrel says:

      07:52am | 29/02/12

      ‘Time to put the Australian Losers Party out to pasture. ‘

      Yeah, stuff the workers - who needs them ?

    • Punters Pal says:

      08:49am | 29/02/12

      acotrel, please explain how does Carbon Tax is going to help any Australian workers, other than ship their jobs offshore?

    • Rosie says:

      09:03am | 29/02/12

      acotrel

      The workers might come to their senses and for a change realize this Gillard Labor Party is not for them and join the vast majority in teaching this Gillard Labor Party a lesson. A lesson that can only be learned if we unite in exposing the Gillard Labor Party for what it really is. Elections would be good but it would be impossible unless the Independents, mainly Windsor and Oakeshott do the right thing and call for one.

      People have stopped listening to this Gillard Labor Party so the healing should begin now with a different leader and a new concept Labor Party. Now until Elections should be used for this process as we need a Labor Party for the betterment of Australia to challenge the LNP when in Govt in 18 months time. Labor will be given the chance to get rid of the Greens and the Independents, the very people propping them up and holding back the kind of stuff that the Labor Party really stands for and believes in.

      Julia Gillard has been let off the hook twice, the first time when she knifed Rudd, had elections and allowed to remain PM. The second time when the majority of her caucus voted for her against the former PM she had ousted. It is time someone acted to teach her a lesson in wrecking the Labor brand. Gillard must go for a new chapter to begin!

    • Steve Putnam says:

      09:04am | 29/02/12

      So you think reforms like unemployment benefits, sickness benefits, workers compensation, four weeks annual leave, superannuation etc have “failed the test of time” and should be done away with?

    • james says:

      09:09am | 29/02/12

      Ask China why they are introducing a carbon tax.

    • poa says:

      09:53am | 29/02/12

      Core values of the ALP?
      Lionel Murphy’s “What about my little mate?”.....sums up the filthy cronyism and absolute muck at the heart of the Party.
      Its what they believe in.

      Complain and you’re name goes on Electrac for some PAYBACK.
      After all….“Don’t you know who we are?!!!!!!!”

    • Carol says:

      10:51am | 29/02/12

      Sony B Goode,

      Says “Labor is yesterday’s party destroying Australia’s future”. So what is the alternative Sony?

      A one party system is dictatorship, you don’t like the Greens, you appear to hate Independents. Come on tell us what is best for our country?

    • Esteban says:

      11:30am | 29/02/12

      Acotrel. The ALP is not about “workers” any more. Most “wokers” are no longer unionists and are drifting away from the ALP.

      WA is certainly a “working state” and only 3 of our 15 federal seats are held by the ALP.

      The core constituents of the ALP are unionists, public servants and welfare receipiants.

      Tasmania is a welfare state and has 4 ALP members and 1 independant left of Labor. We can get away with that because dear Tassie is small but imagine if the whole country had the “working” profile of Tassie.

    • Donny says:

      11:51am | 29/02/12

      @james says:10:09am | 29/02/12

      Ask China why they are introducing a carbon tax.

      Yes, they are “Considering” a tax of approx $1.69 a tonne, not the $23.00 per tonne that the PM has given us.

    • DOB says:

      12:25pm | 29/02/12

      Sony B Goode - so presumably you wiont be claiming your medicare benefits anymore and will pay full whack for any prescriptions in future ?  - often hundreds of dollars a month. Presumably if any company lies to you and rips you off you wont rely on any authority or court to enforce your rights under the old TPA? Presumably if you get hurt on the job you wont claim any workers compensation? I could go on and on with this list (except mass university access - becuase youre probably not smart enough to worry about that one) but lets just agree you are an idiot who doesnt know what he’s talking about and leave it at that, eh?

    • DOB says:

      12:25pm | 29/02/12

      Sony B Goode - so presumably you wiont be claiming your medicare benefits anymore and will pay full whack for any prescriptions in future ?  - often hundreds of dollars a month. Presumably if any company lies to you and rips you off you wont rely on any authority or court to enforce your rights under the old TPA? Presumably if you get hurt on the job you wont claim any workers compensation? I could go on and on with this list (except mass university access - becuase youre probably not smart enough to worry about that one) but lets just agree you are an idiot who doesnt know what he’s talking about and leave it at that, eh?

    • RyaN says:

      12:56pm | 29/02/12

      @acotrel: “Yeah, stuff the workers - who needs them ? “
      Thanks for the heartiest laugh I have had in a long, long time. I am still wiping away the tears at that joke, its like [giggle] you almost think that the Labor party represents the workers [hahahahahhahaha there I go again].

    • marley says:

      01:02pm | 29/02/12

      @DOB - having social benefits such as medicare and worker’s compensation isn’t dependent on having Labor or Labour or Socialist governments in power.  The first workers’ compensation scheme in the world wasn’t developed by unions or left-wing political parties; it was developed by the very non-socialist Otto von Bismarck.  Countries such as Canada and the US both had workers’ compensation schemes at least as early as Australia did without ever having had labour governments.

      Medicare is similar.  It has its origins in Bismarck’s health insurance scheme, and has been introduced in places that have never had labour governments.

      So, while things like workers’ compensation and medicare may be core values of the ALP, they’re not unique to the ALP.

    • james says:

      01:56pm | 29/02/12

      State-run Chinese media reported that proposals for a new environmental taxation system had already been submitted for review to the Ministry of Finance and were expected to be implemented before the end of the 2011-15 five-year plan.

      From the Australian of all papers.

      China emissions, 8,240,958 (in thousands of CO2 metric tonnes)

    • Stephen T says:

      02:04pm | 29/02/12

      From a purely historical perspective I think that you are being a tad unfair in your criticism, there were many truly great people of character on both sides of politics, and sadly as time has passed they seem to be a diminishing breed.  Also the discipline, ethics, virtues and in some cases faults that made them great seem to be anathema to the majority of current politicians and those that do hold strong beliefs and principles are lambasted and derided by the vacuous mob that inhabits today’s political and media scene.  In passing when I’ve heard snippets on the radio from Gillard, her dialogue has always centred on herself first, then the caucus, then Labor values followed by the Party and finally the Australian people.  Labor as supporters like acotrel believe it to be has not existed for decades, and there probably isn’t the capacity for change within the Labor party for it ever to resurrect itself to any semblance of its former core values. Still the present incumbents still serve a function even if it is only for the purpose of demonstrating what a truly bad example they are.

    • Bill door says:

      02:20pm | 29/02/12

      It was the ALP that had the foresight to set up the RAN. A controversial decision at the time. After all we had Britian so why do we need our own navy.

      The ALP have done a lot for this coutry that the Right like to ignore.

    • Erick says:

      05:00am | 29/02/12

      All Dean Jaensch’s points about the damage this dispute has done to the Labor Party are true, but I wouldn’t put it into a similar category with the three earlier splits. Those disputes were about irreconcilable differences of ideology and policy, while this one centres on the far shallower issue of personality.

      The real split on the left side of politics is that between Labor and The Greens. If The Greens don’t fade, they will in effect become the left-wing coalition partner of a diminished ALP.

      P.S. Who will be the first to try to make this thread about the leader of the Opposition?

    • Kipling says:

      06:03am | 29/02/12

      LOL, you last line is a baited tease…

      That said, I reckon your post is far more apt than the OP.

      Sadly though, this is not about Tony Abbott so please refrain from bringing him into it, he gets enough publicity for his deficits.

    • Steve says:

      06:10am | 29/02/12

      It is all Tony Abbotts fault.

    • Bertrand says:

      07:34am | 29/02/12

      Very well said Erick. I pretty much agree with every word you said.

      I will make one addition though, regaridng the Greens becoming the coalition partner on the left.

      The problem with the Greens is that economically they are illiterate wreckers. A lot of people vote for them because they sit to the ‘left’ when it comes to social values - gay rights, drug laws, etc.

      I don’t really understand why these things are seen as belonging to the ‘left’ side of politics. I’ve always though social liberalism fits in better with the right side of politics, which advocates small government. To me, small government includes the government not intruding on the private lives of people. To me, the government making regulations about what I can or cannot smoke in my own home, or who I can or cannot commit to through marriage, reeks of the intrusive politics that come from the far left.

    • acotrel says:

      07:46am | 29/02/12

      ’ In 1955, the issue of communism saw many Catholic members of the Labor party defect to the DLP. This kept Labor out of office for a generation’

      Every politician should be asked their opinion about the separation of church and state, and their answers kept on public record !

    • MarkS says:

      08:09am | 29/02/12

      The ALP entering into a coalition with the Greens is like the Mensheviks entering into a coalition with the Bolsheviks. The extreme Greens will eat them. There is no spoon long enough to sup with that devil. By entering into any agreement of any form you give them status & credibility. If it wishes to survive the ALP must deal with the Greens as the Lib’s did with One Nation.

    • year of the dragon says:

      08:26am | 29/02/12

      acotrel says:08:46am | 29/02/12

      “Every politician should be asked their opinion about the separation of church and state, and their answers kept on public record !”

      Scratch a lefty, reveal a fascist.

    • Borderer says:

      08:35am | 29/02/12

      Erick
      My money is on Sparticus (Nossey)

      Acotrel, you can’t actually ask them that question as you would be breaching the anti-discrimination act. Why don’t you paint stars of david on their doors or crosses?

    • Dieter Moeckel says:

      10:24am | 29/02/12

      1st para - Agreed Erick.
      Drugs and homosexual rights is not the reserve of the left - John Gorton ‘cosponsored a successful motion for the legalisation of homsexuality and campaigned for the legal use of marijuana and heroin.
      A quick read of Mungo MacCallum’s ‘The Good, the Bad & the Unlikely - Australia’s Prime Ministers” should be required reading before comment on this issue.
      The people we are talking about are among the most intelligent of public figures and will work together just like political parties have over time immemorial. There was no love lost between Howard and Costello; McMahon and McKewen but when it came to a crunch they worked together. As did the caucus and Rudd until it became too much. Shit a brick politics is ephemeral, precarious and more so if you want to do something. Our longest serving Prime Minister stayed there because he did SFA during his 23 years in office and so attracted no flack.
      The Gillard government has fulfilled the policies of the Rudd government and then some of its own, as did Whitlam, Hawke and Keating while Fraser and Howard coasted on a calm ocean of international economic calm. Only Howard’s WorkChoices and Man of Steel deputy to the USA harmed Australia and Australians.
      Please remember No GST and non-core promises when you call Julia Gillard a liar.

    • Bertrand says:

      11:18am | 29/02/12

      @Dieter - Howard took the GST to an election. I hate when that comparison is made (and I’m a big supporter of pricing carbon, even if I do think the ALP’s policy is still flawed, I support it over direct action).

    • Crassus says:

      05:36am | 29/02/12

      Well said Dean, but unfortunately you’ll be screamed down as a member of the Liberals more than anything else.  Labor are in government, this is their stuff up and no one else can be blamed.  As it was once said by a member of the Labor opposition, ‘if you can’t control your party how can you govern the country’ (or words to that effect).

    • onlooker says:

      05:51am | 29/02/12

      My husband and I sit stunned, we have watched them destroy The Labor Party, for us that is a simply mind boggling event. Week after week we would say oh gee what are they doing!! Only for it culminate in last weeks disgusting events. They not only dragged down one PM, they have taken out 2, I doubt very much Julia Gillard will win the next election, people will have seen all of this crap going on and think ..oh no way not again. Last night I sat listening to Malcome Turnbull on Fox, I mean I really listened and he sounded so calm and so sane. Even Tony Abbot is looking calm to me and I don’t like the man. I have lost respect for Wayne Swan and Simon Crean and Roxon and many many others, to be so destructive you would vent your anger on a former PM and help bring Labor down is very good reason not to vote for them. This is very sad for the working people of Australia

    • Nathan says:

      06:19am | 29/02/12

      @Onlooker
      When Rudd goes public to drum up support what are they left to do? The mistake was not being public when they first axed so people knew why. If the self promoting man that Rudd is didn’t stir the pot it would not of been public. Rudd instigated this one, he would of been pretty sure he would never have the numbers and went and did it anyway.

    • acotrel says:

      07:50am | 29/02/12

      In most workplaces it’s impossible for workers to roll a boss who is a petulant raving idiot. Democracy is a wonderful thing.

    • year of the dragon says:

      08:14am | 29/02/12

      acotrel says:08:50am | 29/02/12

      “In most workplaces it’s impossible for workers to roll a boss who is a petulant raving idiot. Democracy is a wonderful thing.”

      It is indeed. In just over 12 months we will have the opportunity to remove this government and with them the legislation that prevents at least employers who wish to remove any employee who is “a petulant raving idiot”.

    • Blind Freddy says:

      08:27am | 29/02/12

      Sometime the crew have to lock the captain in his cabin and take control of the ship for the good of all on board.

    • Anubis says:

      08:49am | 29/02/12

      @ Nathan - you say “Rudd instigated this one”. How wrong can you be. All the public commentary and vitriolic speeches came from Gillards camp. Rudd did not publicly state that he would be challenging Gillard until he resigned as Foreign Minister, following the vitriolic outbursts of members of Gillards support group. I am no fan, or supporter of Rudd or Gillard, but seriously, have a look back and take notice of where the noise was emanating from. It wasn’t the Foreign Minister.

    • james says:

      09:12am | 29/02/12

      Come on Anubis, it had to be brought to a head.

      Rudd and his supporters had been feeding reporters off the record comments for months.

    • Mouse says:

      12:22pm | 29/02/12

      James, agreed,  it did have to be brought to a head. I just think it was the way it was done that is what a lot of people are against.

    • Carol says:

      12:56pm | 29/02/12

      James,
      Do you know for a fact “Rudd and his supporters have been feeding reporters off the record comments for months”?
      Or are you just following the bell of the lead cow?

    • james says:

      01:28pm | 29/02/12

      @Carol

      Its coming, we all know journo’s have no morals.

    • Kiplng says:

      06:04am | 29/02/12

      “First, none of the previous internal disputes involved such venomous language and vitriolic attacks as the past week or so.”

      First, it has already been aptly pointed out, the earier “splits” were about ideology whereas this little stoush was totally about personality (or lack thereof). Of course, your statement regarding the language seems to me to be a guess at best. You may have been there I suppose and witnessed these ideologically opposed people being all nice and polite to each other. I dare say though that give actual splits occured over significant issues the language may well have been much more vitriolic.

    • gobsmack says:

      06:50am | 29/02/12

      I recall some years ago a mobile phone conversation between Jeff Kennett and Andrew Peacock in which John Howard was called a number of things including “a c@#t”.
      That didn’t wreck the Liberal Party.  Despite the public veneer of unity, in most political parties there are deep seated hatreds between the members.  It doesn’t stop them functioning.

    • year of the dragon says:

      07:40am | 29/02/12

      gobsmack says: 07:50am | 29/02/12

      “I recall some years ago a mobile phone conversation”

      If only the latest split in the Labor Party was one mobile phone conversation.

      However, I’m sure you’re right. After all, they are made up of that sub-set of the human race that seek power. The difference is, most of the time they manage to stick to their core business of government without letting their personal ambitions and animosities distract them.

      Not this mob though - power-hungry and egotistical sure but add to that immature and juvenile and you have a recipe for disaster.

    • Dieter Moeckel says:

      10:29am | 29/02/12

      Year of the Dragon,
      Read Mungo MacCullum’s “The Good the Bad and the Unlikely”
      Short but to the point and elucidates the hatreds and ambitions of people who seek the countries highest positions.
      Please get real people.

    • year of the dragon says:

      11:37am | 29/02/12

      Dieter Moeckel says:11:29am | 29/02/12

      “Read Mungo MacCullum’s “The Good the Bad and the Unlikely””

      Thanks Dieter. I’ll do that.

    • C1 says:

      06:21am | 29/02/12

      I would hope that a split concerning a decision regarding sending more men to war would generate more anger and passion than one involving a couple of ego trips. I would be disappointed if it did not.

    • youdy beaudy says:

      06:29am | 29/02/12

      I don’t know why we don’t do away with the Labor Party altogether and all of the other Political Parties and Independents as well.

      It’s obvious that there is only one Political Party that is squeaky clean with all things political and that is the Liberal Party. Yes indeed it seems to me that there is only one right to rule forever political party in Australia. The rest are duds and always will be duds according to some opinions on here.

      So, all this in mind we see that what we need to put in place is a permanent Dictatorship. At the moment it would be Tony Abbott and his mob who would be the Dictators and then of course he could reign over us for the term of his natural life and then pass it on to his Son. Hey, i don’t think he has a son to pass it too.!

      We would have to of course have a name for the new Dictators position. Maybe we could call Tony, ” Your Majesty,” or El Presidente. Maybe another more elated name like Kim Jon Tone or something like that.

      Now introducing for the first time a Dictator for the Australian people would save a lot of money. For instance, no more elections ever. A type of Stazi to keep the people in order and teach the kids the way to bow correctly as the great leader passes within view.

      Of course we all know that this is the way the Liberals would like it to go. No one is fit to govern except them. No one.

      Let’s get rid of Democracy with all of its terrible benefits and go on with Dictator Tone. We could have a new national anthem as well which would rally the masses to the side of the new regime. Tones photos could be placed everywhere and of course great statues would be carved an placed in appropriate spots to re endorse his greatness.

      He could bring back Peter Reith. He could be head of the secret police, in charge of the Dog Patrols and public executions and torture. Does it well, and has done it well in the past. All of the haters of Labor, no matter what, could be the spies against anyone who says the word, ” freedom.”

      We wouldn’t have to listen to Christoper Pyne going on anymore as there would be no Parliament. He could be Dictator tones right hand man. The rest of them, who have heads only a mother could love would, just have to stand to attention each day and kiss the arse of the Dictator and his family and make sure the corruption is properly intact.

      Yes, surely this is the way to go everyone. Also, people would not need computers anymore as there would be no internet in Australia. Decrees would be issued, if not followed, villages would be burnt. The Pope could be in charge of the final solution.

      But even better than that, we would not have to read any political mumbo jumbo on the punch each day. The Punch could be filled with such articles as how to bow to the exalted leader and his minions. No more boring anti labor articles.

      They could bring back some of the old favorite tortures for anyone who thought different things to the great leader and of course the punishments could be carried out by new Stazi.

      What a wonderful life we could all have under a Dictator where one opinion is all that is allowed. We would be much better off i think.

      So, this is the answer to all of our problems. Now, liberal people would support this surely and the Pope, well, he will be happy to see the old times returning. It will help him get rid of those non believers. Mongrels that they are.

    • Crassus says:

      06:48am | 29/02/12

      Amusing post youdy beaudy, got a few good laughs out of it, but I can’t agree with ‘why we don’t do away with the Labor Party altogether and all of the other Political Parties and Independents as well.’  As history has shown, every great comedy pair always had a straight man and a funny man.  Australian politics for the moment is precisely at this point and it’s a laugh a minute, thanks to all the shenanigans, please don’t change the line up just yet.

    • TimB says:

      07:07am | 29/02/12

      Stupid post is stupid. The ALP is tearing itself apart thanks to the force of it’s own hubris, and your only response is to ridiculously cast the Liberals as a party out for totalitarian control.

      I will highlight one part of this steaming pile of garbage though:

      “He could bring back Peter Reith. He could be head of the secret police, in charge of the Dog Patrols and public executions and torture. Does it well, and has done it well in the past.”

      In the past? I missed this. By all means enlighten me as to when these public executions and torture sessions took place.

      Medieval England perhaps? Is reincarnation involved?

    • acotrel says:

      07:56am | 29/02/12

      We could all kiss his ring ?

    • Schmick says:

      09:00am | 29/02/12

      The Coalition will now be called the Australian Socialist Nationalist Party or Aussie Nazi Party and the ALP will become the new resistance. The “Shooters”, CDP, and any other right wing political organisation will roll right in to the Aussie Nazi’s. Non-white immigrants will become the victims of the new holocaust along with any members of the ALP or a union.

      New Zealand and many other Pacific Nations will be annexed to accomodate forced migration of those undesireables that can not be put to work. Concerntration camps will be set-up at mine sites so as to advance the wealth of the Aussie Nazi’s. Those dissidents interned will be worked to death.

      “Abbott’s Stormtrooper” will be the new death squads that will protect Fuhrer Abbott from his own colleagues. Malcolm Turnbull will be executed within a week just to set an example to the others.

      After about a year of stable power, The Mad Monk will carry out a purge of his own party to totally secure his place at the top. The purge will take out anyone who could possibly become the new Fuhrer even if they are totally loyal.

      Finally, Tony will lose the plot and attack the US and/or China. If he only attacks the US, democracy will be restored but with capitalism being the totally dominant paradigm instead of a social democracy. If China is attacked, we will be under a full communist regime for years to come.

      Either way, we’re over as a country as soon as the Mad Monk wins!

    • GB says:

      09:13am | 29/02/12

      @Youdy Beaudy. Probably the most ridiculous post I’ve ever seen contributed to this forum. Not even our two resident village idiots Nossy or Acotrel could come up with the deluded ramblings you’ve posted above.

      Give yourself an uppecut and leave the “hyperbowl” to Gillard and co.

    • Rosie says:

      09:13am | 29/02/12

      No thanks! It would do more harm for Australia because we would have a catholic uprising!

      Weird Tony Abbott, Chris Pyne etc are Catholics and Catholics are well known to vote for the Labor Party! Rats they let me down big time, when they allowed an atheist Labor PM into the Lodge!

    • SimonFromLakemba says:

      09:45am | 29/02/12

      LOL, awesome stuff.

      Even better seeing the stone face Libs supporters crying beneath.

      A sense of humour is a wonderful thing.

    • Dieter Moeckel says:

      10:43am | 29/02/12

      Light hearted but you missed the reintroduction of “White Australian” and the deportation of all non British immigrants to Nauru and the implementation of a Camp Delta on disputed leased foreign soil so that the inmates have no recourse to Australian justice. The Head of the department can go to none other than John Winston Howard he would like sweet in Jackboots, standing on a patrol boat driving asylum (boat or otherwise) seekers back into wild, stormy shark infested waters to throw their children to the sharks without receiving any sympathy.
      We will decide who comes here - and how they depart.

    • Crassus says:

      10:50am | 29/02/12

      Schmick, you walk the fine line between comic genius and babbling idiot.  Amusing hypothesis with a few good chuckles thrown in, well done sir.

    • Mouse says:

      12:37pm | 29/02/12

      Dieter, I thought it was gillard and her Able Seaman Dave Bradbury that were on the patrol boat, scouring the seas for the evil asylum boat seekers, ever vigilant, never distracted, always on the job!  They will decide who comes here and how long it takes to give them permanent residency!  lol :o)

    • Schmick says:

      01:25pm | 29/02/12

      @Crassus, you are absolutely correct about walking the fine line between comic genius and babbling idiots, but at least I’m better than those in Canberra! The choice between the Mad Monk and the faceless men just leaves me in despair and a probably little crazy!

      The scariest thing is that nobody believed that Hitler would turn out as bad as he did in the early 1930’s…

    • Crassus says:

      03:36pm | 29/02/12

      ‘The scariest thing is that nobody believed that Hitler would turn out as bad as he did in the early 1930’s… ’  I’m taking this as a comment on both Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott, we’ve seen what Julia is like, next year we may just yet see what Tony is like.  Guess it depends on which side of the fence you sit on as to who is worse at the moment.  to me they’re both pretty much, meh, as leaders, neither are inspiring.

    • Eda says:

      09:05pm | 29/02/12

      youdy beaudy ,

      very, very good, got quite a few chuckles from me.

    • Little Joe says:

      06:43am | 29/02/12

      You forgot Gough Whitlam and Harke Keating!!!

    • gobsmack says:

      06:45am | 29/02/12

      For crying out loud, it’s over.
      The press might want to flog a bit more life out of this dead horse, in the meantime in the real world the business of government continues.
      Time to move forward.

    • Erick says:

      07:34am | 29/02/12

      @gobsmack - You wish it was over. In reality, this will continue to hurt the Labor Party at least until the next election.

      Rudd’s popularity with the voters means they won’t accept Gillard as PM.

    • C1 says:

      07:38am | 29/02/12

      Nice and convenient. I am sure if the situation involved the Liberals you would be saying the same thing - of course!!!

    • year of the dragon says:

      07:42am | 29/02/12

      “Time to move forward.”

      Straight from the Labor Party PR prompt sheet.

      However they are a dysfunctional mess and must be held to scrutiny.

    • TimB says:

      07:58am | 29/02/12

      It’s over until the third party contender steps up of course. Smith or Shorten.

      I’m going to make a stab at a September coup.

      That gives Julia three months to sell the electorate on her Carbon tax after it comes in (good luck with that). If the polls remain dismal, the knives will be out.

    • Time's up says:

      09:44am | 29/02/12

      gobsmack is right.
      It’s over.
      Time for some policy debate noalition fanbois

      Don’t forget to bring some policies and facts. (I know it’s been a while, we’ll give you a few weeks to come up with some). Meanwhile, go talk amongst yourselves.

    • AdamC says:

      09:49am | 29/02/12

      Labor people are weird.

      In reality, of course, the leadership issue is ‘over’ only if Gillard can improve the government’s electoral prospects. If she can’t, either Rudd or someone else will be back looking to take the leadership.

      It’s not rocket science.

    • ZSRenn says:

      06:51am | 29/02/12

      Hey Erick!

      OVER HERE!

    • C1 says:

      07:41am | 29/02/12

      Erick’s not here any more man!!!

      He has gone to the other side now - he is a contributor: One of them!!!!

      Where is Persephone when you need her?

    • RANK FRANK says:

      07:36am | 29/02/12

      This massive rift will not be healed for a long time. Labor has long memories
      when it suits. Payback - anytime and in anyplace.
      What it has shown me is just how bad the ‘Rudd Government’ was as judged
      by its own ministers and members. The truth often hurts deeply.
      Australia deserves much better

    • old fart says:

      07:46am | 29/02/12

      I thought Bob Menzies started the liberal party several decades after billy hughes was in politics, so how could Hughes degfect to something that wasnt there?  Please corect me if I have the events wrong

    • kath says:

      09:45am | 29/02/12

      Deakin found the first “Liberal” party; it then became the Nationalist Party, which morphed into the United Australia Party which morphed into the Liberal Party.  I think that Joseph Cook might have been a Liberal Prime Minister and that they became “Nationalist” at some point during World War 1.  I’m pretty certain that Billy Hughes was the “Nationalist” Prime Minister though, maybe it was formed when he and the expelled Labor MPs joined the others; not sure from memory.

      Actually, I think Billy Hughes might have actually been a member of Menzies’ Liberal Party too!

    • Valerie says:

      07:56am | 29/02/12

      So many strata of mischief and malice go to make up a political party. The recently dumped NSW Labor mess had long since evolved from gross incompetence into overt, deeply-rooted corruption which has contaminated its very DNA for generations to come. And, every day, Federal Labor is exhibiting the same grotesque deviance from integrity at every level. If only they could find some clean stem-cells and start all over again. Bob Carr???!!!...heavens above.

    • Brian Taylor says:

      08:04am | 29/02/12

      I’m left wondering why Rudd doesn’t seem to be too upset about losing the vote…wonder what hes really up too?

    • John says:

      08:39am | 29/02/12

      The whole premise of this article is wrong. The Labor Party hasn’t split like in 1917 or 1955. No one was left the Labor Party. There was a leadership challenge. This has happened many times. Here are just a few examples.

      Gillard challenged Rudd in 2010.
      Rudd challenged Beazley in 2006.
      Before that, Beazley, Crean and Latham challenged each other several times.
      Keating challenged Hawke, twice, in 1991.
      Hawke challenged Hayden in 1982 and 1983.
      Hayden challenged Whitlam in 1977.
      Frank Crean challenged Whitlam in 1975.
      Jim Cairns challenged Whitlam in 1968.

      It happens in all parties.

    • Karen from Qld says:

      08:45am | 29/02/12

      This may not be the first time the Labor Party has “blown” up but is it the first time they have had such a clueless leader given that Gillard is under the impression that Rudd created the G20. Still laughing at that one.

    • james says:

      09:15am | 29/02/12

      Created or got Australia a seat a the table?

    • Karen from Qld says:

      09:28am | 29/02/12

      @ James “THE member for Griffith has served this nation as minister for foreign affairs with distinction, following many of the initiatives in foreign policy that he entered into for this nation when prime minister. Amongst those major achievements include the creation of the G20 . . . and include the work he did to see the creation of the East Asia Summit.” Gillard’s words not mine

    • jaxx says:

      09:51am | 29/02/12

      Sorry Karen

      Where did you read that Gillard said Rudd created the G20?

      Finding out your source of information should be quite revealing about how you form our opinions.
      Please do post a link for us.

    • marley says:

      12:07pm | 29/02/12

      @jaxx - the statement is contained in the House of Reps Hansard for Feb 27, page 22.  Does it matter where Karin got it, given that it’s an accurate quote?

    • jaxx says:

      12:42pm | 29/02/12

      Of course it matters that it is accurate marley, what are you, another liberal apologist who thinks truth doesn’t matter?

      Usually when a person quotes someone, they put quotation marks around it. Karen doesn’t quote anything. She merely puts quotes around the word blown (“blown”) and spurts out some words and giggles.

      What are you Karen’s second or just a backstop?

      As we all know, sometimes, “shit happens”

    • Karen from Qld says:

      03:25pm | 29/02/12

      @jaxx Are you implying that Hansard is not correct. I refer you to my second comment.As you will see the comments are a direct quote. And as to how I form my opinions. I form my own opinions from how people perform. It seems ‘shit” is always happening to Julia though doesn’t it. As far as truth goes I would like to know if Julia Gillard even knows what truth is. Given her history it would seem not.

    • marley says:

      04:24pm | 29/02/12

      @Jaxx - I’m bemused.  I took the trouble to verify the quote at its source and found it in Hansard.  Somehow, in your mind, that makes me “another liberal apologist who thinks truth doesn’t matter.”  Let’s face it,  If you won’t accept Hansard, then clearly, you’re the one for whom truth doesn’t matter.

    • jaxx says:

      05:51pm | 29/02/12

      marley - You asked the question:
      “Does it matter where Karin got it, given that it’s an accurate quote? “

      When I made my initial comment to Karen, I was replying directly to Karen and there were no other replies.

      I notice you didn’t acknowledge my point that there were no quotation marks, nor a reference where one could verify her “almost quote”.

      Nor did you address the fact that without verifiable attribution, her statement was suspect.

      So yes marley, it does matter “where Karin got it”. She could have pulled it out of her proverbial. Without the link, it was just a throw away comment like so many of the comments on here.

      Having said that, thanks for the link. But I must say, being bemused because you think “quotes” don’t need to be accurate or verifiable bemuses me.

    • Karen from Qld says:

      07:58pm | 29/02/12

      @Jaax - I did not reply straight away to your comment as I was on my Meals on Wheels roster when you posted - unlike some I do not get paid to sit at the computer all day and post comments. I do so when I get the time. Like most Labor lovers you cannot accept the fact that your leader is absolutely clueless. And so like Labor - can’t win the argument on merit so you resort to distractions…

    • marley says:

      09:11pm | 29/02/12

      @Jaxx - as I read it, Karen made two comments.  In the first, she stated that “Gillard is under the impression that Rudd created the G20.”  That is Karen’s opinion.

      In her second, she quoted the actual words that Gillard used, which led her to reach that opinion.  Her second comment is very clearly a quote, notwithstanding your efforts to argue otherwise.  The quotation marks are a hint. 

      Now it’s fine to demand evidence of a source for Karen’s quote. I provided it, and for that, had the pleasure of being called a liberal shill.  So damn right, I’m bemused.  How does providing an objective, verifiable source of information make me “someone who thinks truth doesn’t matter?”

    • Ned Springstein says:

      09:03am | 29/02/12

      Uncle Fester Springstein who is a big gambler asked me what did I think were good odds for a bet on Tony Abbott to become PM. Well I said to Uncle Fester no odds are good for a sure-fire losing bet. Never thought of it like that he said.

    • GB says:

      10:09am | 29/02/12

      Giving the spartacus handle a day off today Nossy?

    • spartacus says:

      10:35am | 29/02/12

      GB@ no one gives Spartacus the day off except me!
      Who or what is this Nossy?????

    • the_pseudonym says:

      10:58am | 29/02/12

      Your other screen name, the one you usually use here, but have abandoned since you’ve gone into hiding nosworthy.

    • RyaN says:

      01:15pm | 29/02/12

      Oh haaai Nossy!

    • gobsmack says:

      09:12am | 29/02/12

      That photo of Jack Lang bears certain similarities to Paul Keating.
      I know Lang was an early mentor.  Keating wouldn’t be a love child by any chance?

    • year of the dragon says:

      01:32pm | 29/02/12

      Good lord, so it does.

    • Aitch B says:

      09:57am | 29/02/12

      Meanwhile…....

      The Government has slammed the bag on the $320 million solar rebate scheme for fear of a ‘budget blowout’.

      For Christ’s sake….. this is the second time this useless pack of bumbling idiots has cocked up and put many small businesses in a very precarious situation. I have a friend in the industry and he is now shitting himself!!

      The scheme was supposed to run until June 30th. I have seen many advertisements on TV recently for solar panel installation where businesses have clearly stated that that’s when the scheme ends. So they have spent and further committed tens of thousands of advertising dollars on that basis.

      Now the Labor idiots slam the door in their faces - just like the pink batts scheme. I’ll bet there will be no compensation for the businesses and no doubt there will be job losses resulting from the decision.

      And Labor has the hide to tell us that they are ‘all about jobs’!!

      Well I’m sorry, Labor but if you crackpots hadn’t spent like drunken sailors on shore leave and wasted money on all the shit stuff that you have then there wouldn’t be a problem!

      So how are your ‘green’ credentials now, f!#&wits;??

    • spartacus says:

      10:26am | 29/02/12

      Settle down old son—-perhaps you should slash your wrists———-it may help to lower your blood pressure.

    • suchislife says:

      10:31am | 29/02/12

      As a Government they need to be fiscally responsible with taxpayers dollars. This is what is occuring.

    • james says:

      10:52am | 29/02/12

      Lets spend on Direct Inaction instead smile

      Love the noise the lib staffers.

    • Aitch B says:

      11:11am | 29/02/12

      @spartacus

      Perhaps you should contribute something meaningful…. you’ve posted garbage for the last couple of days.

      @suchislife

      “...fiscally responsible with taxpayers dollars”. Yeah right…. like they have been doing all all along. Things like Fuelwatch, Grocery Watch, Cash for Clunkers…. there’s hundreds of millions of dollars worth of of “fiscal responsibility” for you.

      Not to mention the ridiculous Climate Change Commission that’s costing taypayers billions while a bunch of public servants sit there with bugger all to do except produce reports that will never be read.

      And let’s not forget the set top box scheme that’s blown out from $350 odd per unit to $600 - when in fact it should be more like $150 per unit installed.

      You seem to not care for the small businesses that will be seriously affected by this decision. Those businesses that have ramped up their operations based in what the government put in place only to have the rug pulled out from under them.

      You seem also to not care for the people who will lose their jobs.

      Such is life indeed!

    • Aitch B says:

      11:45am | 29/02/12

      @james

      It seems you don’t give a shit either.

      At least suchislife has made an attempt at justification of the decision. You just peddle more anti-Abbott and anti-Liberal garbage as you regularly do - obviously it’s the first thing that comes into your head.

    • GB says:

      12:14pm | 29/02/12

      @suchislife.

      “As a Government they need to be fiscally responsible with taxpayers dollars. This is what is occuring.”

      BWAHAHA!!!!!!!

      Yes, because fiscal prudence has been the hallmark of this government ever since they took power in ‘07 right?

      LMAO!!!!!!!

    • james says:

      01:14pm | 29/02/12

      How do you justify spending billions on direct action?

      49% of the LNP support a market based system.

    • Mouse says:

      01:25pm | 29/02/12

      Sorry Aitch B, they promised a 2012/13 surplus and,  come hell or high water, we are going to have one! They can only bring forward income and set back expenditure so far. The real money has to come from current outgoings, so there goes anything that has a rebate attached to it. So long solar panel rebate, insulation rebate, private health insurance rebate!  So no more new spending then until after the 2013 budget.  This is being fiscally responsible, you know, what the current government is really good at.

      No, sorry again, I just can’t keep a straight face any longer!!!!  :o)

    • Aitch B says:

      01:54pm | 29/02/12

      @james

      If the Coalition (not the Queensland LNP as you state) were in government and had spent those billions on Direct Action I would be just as ropeable. However….. they aren’t and they haven’t.

      Are you seriously trying to justify what the Labor government has wasted by harping on the fact that an opposition hasn’t wasted money by not spending it? My….. you are a strange one.

      You obviously can’t justify it because you’re not even attempting to.

    • james says:

      02:30pm | 29/02/12

      I was trying to debate policy for a change.

      Good to see you don’t support the direct action path.

    • LJ Dots says:

      05:32pm | 29/02/12

      james, this is about policy and so much more. It was a policy actually being implemented and Aitch B was pointing out the results when the Government suddenly changes the rules they themselves had set. The rules businesses and consumers were trusting and relying on.

    • spartacus says:

      10:24am | 29/02/12

      Enough already on the Labor “Blue”
      Lets get back to bagging that dropkick the Mad Monk its much more fun as there is so much baggage to work with.
      The Abbottolah is so demented and brain dead he oblivious to his own insanity!.
      Aboat thinks Broadband is the distance between his ears.
      He must have a horrible empty feeliong in his SKULL!

    • Cynicised says:

      10:42am | 29/02/12

      Bahahaha!  This is hilarious! Gotta love all the epithets for Tones! It’s demented, but I love it!

      As for the rest the whingers- yawn. They had a spat. It’s happened before and will happen again, quite possibly before 2013. Nothing to see here, move along.

    • the_pseudonym says:

      11:01am | 29/02/12

      Some of your best work right there nossy!

    • Max Redlands says:

      11:59am | 29/02/12

      @ Cynicized “It’s happened before and will happen again, quite possibly before 2013. Nothing to see here”

      I disagree, the present situation where appointment to the office of Prime Minister being treated like a game of pass the parcel is something to see and it’s not a very edifying spectacle.

      Leadership changes in opposition are one thing - the opposition isn’t supposed to be running the country - but this instability at the top of Government is not doing the country any good at all and is not something to be ignored.

    • dobbo says:

      10:56am | 29/02/12

      Whoa folks whoa…the country hasn’t disintegrated in fact the markets
      haven’t shown a flicker in response to the leadership tussle. Can’t get over the hypocrisy of people who know how big business works and are so critical - people do get ambitious; they do bump heads. That’s the real world. That’s what happens when there’s passion and energy in a project.

      What do all the ones opposing this say: That a party should never reconsider who should lead it if the energy is faltering, if the vision has gone?

      That a business should keep on a CEO even if he/she’s not making the grade? Bullshit I say.

      Rudd to me is like the guy who’s good at job interview. He scores the job, then he proves not to be up to it. The inevitable happens.

      Costello was tempted in Howard’s case but didn’t have the guts. Gillard did. Is this some sort of crime?

      OK. I do get it that big business would find it easier to deal with some centralised monolithic political party such as China’s CPC. However, most would agree, even for the privileged, life does not run always comfortably under such a system.

      As for the claims “the once venerable Labor Party” is kaput by all those
      gleeful doom and gloomers - don’t be too quick to gloat. All the latest
      ructions show there’s quite a bit of life left in the old beast yet.

    • Cynic says:

      11:20am | 29/02/12

      why doesn’t Rudd revive the DLP and prove his point the voters want him not Gillard and her cronies.

    • Robert S McCormick says:

      11:21am | 29/02/12

      Rudd has only said he would not challenge Gillard. he has said nothing about challenging the challenger in the inevitable challenge which will take place later this year!!
      Who, other than the intelligent, down-to-earth Greg Combet have they got?
      No-one - at least no-one the voters might accept.  Bill Shorten? Given the major roll he played in Gillards usurption of the Prime Ministership he is far too tarnished. He also comes across as a bad-tempered little man who turns very nasty & spitefull if things don’t go the way he wants or someone has the gall to ask him difficult questions.
      There is no love lost between Rudd & either Shorten, Crean, Swan so if any of them stoood Rudd would have every justification for doing so too. Gillard is not out of the woods yet. One third of Caucus voted against her & with a few more bad polls for the ALP - forget those about Gillard - more MPs in those very marginal seats around the country will turn on her.

    • dobbo says:

      12:14pm | 29/02/12

      So a third of Caucus voted against PM. Still at 71 to 31 this was the biggest vote of confidence in a leadership spill in Australia’s history.

      More importantly where does this leave Abbott? He only squeaked in by one vote after his Turnbull backstab. In the true spirit of democracy shown by the ALP,  I say he should now call a leadership spill.

      At the moment it’s very clear who has most legitimacy as leader within their party.

    • marley says:

      12:44pm | 29/02/12

      @dobbo - as the Oz pointed out this morning, you’re conveniently forgetting that the last time the leadership issue was raised in the Lib caucus, just after the last election, Abbott was confirmed without any opposition at all.  In other words, he got 100% support.  So, yep, I’d say it’s pretty clear who has the greater legitimacy.

    • JT says:

      12:53pm | 29/02/12

      Why do you Labor hacks insist on lying? Is it simply a part of your DNA or something?

      Tony Abbott was elected UNOPPOSED in 2010 after the election. Mentioned here in this news story from that time: http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/bishop-thanks-colleagues-for-support-20100909-152t9.html

      ‘‘At the moment it’s very clear who has most legitimacy as leader within their party.’‘

      Yes it is and it is not Gillard. 1/3 of her party voted against her. None even stood against Abbott.

    • Aitch B says:

      01:36pm | 29/02/12

      @Dobbo

      Mark Latham defeated Kim Beazley by two votes. I don’t recall him declaring a spill because of the low margin. Where was the true spirit of democracy shown by the ALP then?

    • dobbo says:

      02:02pm | 29/02/12

      Hmm Marley, JT, AitchB ...if we’re going to get on this trail this is just the same as saying Gillard was elected unopposed after the Rudd ousting.

    • JT says:

      02:33pm | 29/02/12

      She was. Of course in her case, the challenge was issued with little forewarning, in the middle of the night with the breaking of a promise to give him time and supported by ‘‘faceless’’ power brokers of the factions. It also revolved around a personality issue not a policy issue as was the case with the Coalition.

    • marley says:

      06:59pm | 29/02/12

      @dobbo - the latest ALP vote shows that Julia has roughly 70% support within caucus.  That’s enough to make her the legitimate leader in ALP eyes.  The latest Liberal vote shows that Tony has 100% support within caucus.  So how is he less legitimate than Julia?

    • dobbo says:

      05:47am | 01/03/12

      which brings me back to my original point, marley. I’m calling for an update to see how much support the Mad Monk really does have in his own team as he continues to languish in the opinion polls against such a supposedly unpopular PM.

    • marley says:

      07:48am | 01/03/12

      Umm, it’s not up to you.  It’s up to caucus.  If the Libs feel they’re in trouble, let someone challenge Tony. No one has, and no one on the Lib benches seems to be deliberately undermining him, either.  Whatever their faults, they appear to be a lot more focused and disciplined than the ALP.

    • Ray says:

      04:09pm | 29/02/12

      The fracas revealed that Labor will go to any lengths to hold onto power, and that national interest is not a consideration.
      Gillard’s camp derided Kevin Rudd’s suggestion to either delay the carbon tax or else minimise the term during which it is fixed. It is clear that Gillard enacted the carbon tax purely to raise revenue so as to meet the political goal of achieving a budget surplus in 2013, and to redistribute income from the socalled rich to the poor.

      Gillard’s claims of reducing ‘carbon pollution’, transforming to clean energy,  creating thousands of green jobs, and of complying with international demands, were just spin to divert attention from Labor’s big tax motive.  Gillard simply ignored the fact that there is no empirical scientific evidence to justify the tax, and that other countries are postponing or walking away from proposals to implement the tax or ETS . She ignored the effects of implementing the tax, namely, big rises in electricity prices, all Australian industries being disadvantaged relative to the rest of the world, and no effect whatsoever on climate change

    • Chris says:

      04:32pm | 29/02/12

      If you can find it on line read KM Gunn’s letter in the Advertiser on the 28th Feb - it puts the situation in a nutshell and makes the point that Abbott is the real loser because it frees the media up to continue their relentless efforts to remove him (which is not as far fetched as it seems according to a senior member of the Press Gallery).

    • Yeah baby says:

      07:38pm | 29/02/12

      Tyhe Rudd/Gilllard carry on has inspired me to become a Liberal member

    • Michelle says:

      10:57am | 01/03/12

      PM Gillard and her leadership is pathetic. It’s as if the degree of competency, expectations, the standards and ethics required, and the time allotted to produce are continually lowered and extended. It’s one excuse and unbelievable alternative version of truth after the other.
      Gillard cannot get a handle on being a good PM and it’s one stuff up after another? Give her ‘till Christmas. Still a stuff up? Give her till the budget. Still a stuff up? Give her till Christmas.
      ENOUGH ALREADY!
      Just call the blasted election and sort the mess once and for all!:-(

 

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