Australia’s reconciliation situation is worse than that of post-apartheid South Africa.

As we celebrate National Close the Gap day, it is time we focus on the real gap that needs to be closed - the gap in trust between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians. For this is one gap that we can all take responsibility for closing once and for all.

When we hear the Close the Gap catch cry we immediately think of the shocking news headline statistics:

  • An Aboriginal man is expected to live 11.5 years less than the Australian average.
  • An Aboriginal baby is twice as likely to die before their first birthday.
  • An Aboriginal girl is 32 per cent less likely to finish her high school education.

We can continue to recount these statistics like a politician with an overused campaign slogan, but until we realise that these are just the symptoms of the underlying trust gap, we will not make our desired impact of ‘closing the gap’.

The underlying trust gap was unearthed in Reconciliation Australia’s recent Barometer Report. The report, compiled by AusPoll, found that 91 per cent of non-Indigenous Australians do not trust Indigenous Australians and 88 per cent of Indigenous Australians do not trust non-Indigenous Australians – figures which are truly embarrassing for our country.

The figures are even more embarrassing when they are compared to the South Africa’s Reconciliation Barometer report - an annual report released by the Institute of Justice and Reconciliation that measures post-apartheid South Africa’s reconciliation process.

With the South African report providing much of the framework for the Reconciliation Australia report, we are able to infer some comparisons between the two reconciliation movements - in particular the measurement of trust between each country’s racial groups.
 
For all the racial turmoil South Africa has experienced over recent generations, one could be forgiven for thinking that Australia’s racial trust was further advanced than South Africa’s. However, in 2007 only 44 per cent of South Africans found people of another race to be untrustworthy – much less than the 90 per cent mistrust rate between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians.

That same 2007 report found a positive correlation “between the perceived knowledge of other groups and the extent which respondents are willing to trust other groups.” I would expect that a non-Indigenous Australian’s lack of knowledge of Aboriginal history and culture has had a similar effect on trust within Australia.

It is time that we take the next essential step forward. Indigenous culture is core to our country’s past, and it will be essential for our country’s future. It is time that we look to fill the knowledge void that has created such a gap in trust between the Indigenous people of this country and the rest of Australia.

Understanding 60,000 years of Aboriginal culture is something that is beautiful and something we as Australians should value and be proud to experience - it shouldn’t be something that embarrasses us on the international stage.

Education is the key to our reconciliation and our school kids should be rightfully taught the beauties of the oldest living culture in the world – and no, that doesn’t mean that our schools have one day a year where the kids eat ‘bush-tucker’.

Finally we need to celebrate the uniqueness of the 200+ Indigenous nations that make up this wide brown land – and that doesn’t just mean a token celebration each time an international sporting event or American celebrity come to town.

The reconciliation movement has come a long way, but as the statistics show there is still a long way to go. No longer should we wait for the government or someone else to get it right, for it is clear that every Australian now has the power to make the next move.

So today, I ask you to open both your heart and your mind. Join hands with the rest of Australia to embrace the genuinely amazing history and culture that this country has to offer.

For we will never truly close the gap until we open ourselves up to positive change.

262 comments

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    • Erick says:

      05:00am | 24/03/11

      You say that non-indigenous Australians should be taught about the beauties of stone-age culture to promote trust of Aboriginal Australians. Aborigines are equally untrusting of non-Aborigines, but you don’t propose any special education process to address this. Once again, whites are cast as the bad guys who need to be changed, while blacks are the innocent victims who can do no wrong.

      This attitude is discriminatory. It is part of the problem.

    • Skippy says:

      06:02am | 24/03/11

      Spot on Erick! Richard, this is the same old cry that goes out every now and again typically by those who are not living in areas that are rife with Indigenous issues. Can I ask what credentials you have to even write this article? Have you lived in an Aboriginal community? Have you engaged with Aboriginal people on a regular basis? Have you (even more challenging) worked on committies with them, where the in- fighting in my experience is so frustrating that you cannot achieve results for THEM, because they refuse to cooperate! I a so fed up with articles like this written from people who have little to no experience with Indigenous communities. Have you Richard walked down the main st and had abuse hurled at you on a regular basis by a pregnant teenager, a youth, a drunk at midday Aboriginal just because you may have looked sideways, but you just wanted to cross the road! Don’t bang on Richard about how hard done by they are, the Govt have thrown every opportunity at them and yes it isn’t working! I’m working and living in an environment with Aboriginal people every single day, I know the issues first hand. I’m not placing them all in the same box like any group there are some great people I work with and I have friends who are Aboriginal but lets get real Richard the issues are deeply steemed in a generational cycle that is imbedded with alcoholism, social issues, no work ethic etc. I invite you to come and walk a while in my shoes and maybe just maybe you will stop prattling on about the issues it seems very clear that you have little genuine insight into!

    • JimW says:

      06:07am | 24/03/11

      Considering only 21% of aboriginal people between 15-64 have finished year 12 (last stats 2008), compared to 54% of non-indigenous Australians, I think any education is probably the priority for them and an education within our current school curriculum would include a better understanding of post-colonisation Australia.
      Richard is saying in this piece that trust is the problem and suggesting a little understanding would go a long way. It think he’s got it exactly right.

    • Stop the BS says:

      06:43am | 24/03/11

      I agree with Skippy. I have spent many years working in places with large indigenous communities and what Skippy states is so true. The article screams out to me “inner urban, latte drinker, left of centre when I am trying to get laid, pass me a chardonay, I vote green because they will make other people pay for my lifestyle”.
      Please, Richard, I beg you, cross the great divide and head to the communities you speak of but obviously have never seen or had any contact with. It is easy to have grandiose ideas when your biggest problem is the relative freshness of the sun dried tomatoes on your sour dough foccacia. Reality is quite different.
      I am in Noel Pearsons camp, and will continue to judge all of these people on the colour of their characters, not their skins.

    • LeftRightOut says:

      06:43am | 24/03/11

      Close the gap eh? One way to close the gap, would be for “white fellas” to move into these communities that have high Aboriginal populations, they too would start to show the same signs of disadvantage.
      Funny that the video is Collarenebri Central School, I know it well. Never lived in Colli, but I know lots that do (I’ve spent lots of time up there) I can tell you that there is a gap between black and white there, but not much of one.

      I think the author focussing on some obscure poll on “trust” is utterly without value.

      Whatever we can do to “close the gap”, what’s been done in the past clearly is not working, so a complete revamp is required, probably starting with forced work. Problem is, they live in places where there is simply nothing to do but get pi$$ed.

    • JustAnotherSmith says:

      07:42am | 24/03/11

      Didn’t we (by we I mean previous generations of white Australians) try the re-education of Aborigines before? White Australia Policy anyone? Surely we owe it to them to integrate our histories rather than try and bury them. Pun intended.

    • iansand says:

      07:46am | 24/03/11

      Extraordinary.  Erick can cast himself as the victim, even here.  The man is a genius.

    • acotrel says:

      07:49am | 24/03/11

      ‘The report, compiled by AusPoll, found that 91 per cent of non-Indigenous Australians do not trust Indigenous Australians and 88 per cent of Indigenous Australians do not trust non-Indigenous Australians – figures which are truly embarrassing for our country’

      How long are we going to deny the ‘black arm band version of history’.  For the first 50 years of the 19th century, the white settlers waged war on the aborigines.  Perhaps we need to sign a peace treaty?

    • scott says:

      09:22am | 24/03/11

      You know, I think there ARE problems of perception on both sides, and in fact there are surveys that show almost as many blackfellas are as untrusting of whitefellas, percentage wise.

      But how to change this? As a whitefella, if I wait around for the other guys to show some trust, how is that going to help?

      I work in mental health, and have been shown some great lessons in trust by indigenous clients. When I let them show me how I’d made mistakes in dealing with them, I was much more able to help them get where they wanted to go.

      If I’d played the ‘superior professional white guy’ game, I would have ignored these lessons and written the experiences off as some ‘family thing’ or ‘cultural thing’ that got in the way of what needed to happen. As it was, I was able to see these people around in my local community and give them a nod g’day without having to make excuses to myself about why things went wrong.

    • demeter says:

      09:25am | 24/03/11

      I have worked a number of years in a couple of remote communities in the NT. The indigenous population and the non indigenous population pretty much got the same things, if any thing bent toward the indigenous population.

      We keep trying to fix the system but the systems fine for an anglosized population, aboriginals struggle to assimilate into a western style medical system.  Some of what we all know human is high levels of sugar or fructose leads to high heart disease, diabeaties, kidney disease and obesity. Facts are that be capita the indigenous population consumes more soft drinks than any other racial group.

      That aside.

      the indigenous populations not unlike alot of cultures learn from thier parents, on how to raise children, how to eat properly etc etc. Boys learn how to be men from thier dads and girls to be women from their mother or senior members of the family group for both sexes. Have a look at our own society at the break down of the family unit, if kids dont have a mum or a dad kids they are already on the back foot, ( Im not saying single parents are doing a bad job but the reality is who wouldnt want a loving partner of the opposite sex to help raise your kids together)  if both or one are substance abusers there isnt much hope.

      You can try educate people all you want but the disintigration of the family group from substance abuse by senior member of the family group will destroy the future. Done enough over a couple of generations and it pretty much a lost cause.

    • Mulyen says:

      10:11am | 24/03/11

      It feels to me like the finger-pointing game is old news.  The POINT is in the statistics.  That we have a human rights issue in this country that is not about race or personal experience.  It’s about a genocide, and a generational trauma that is a direct result of cultural destruction.

      Aboriginal culture is not stone-age.  Like any culture on the planet, we evolve and develop and change.  Like it or not, Aboriginal culture is part of OUR collective culture.  A vibrant and beautiful and empowering part worthy of your respect, regardless of your race.

      Change has to happen.  Negativity is old news.  The future is the same yarn that those kids from Colli talk about.  Brighter day.  See the bigger picture.  Or get out of the way.

    • Community Teacher says:

      11:04am | 24/03/11

      I have worked in Indigenous communities as a teacher and what you other fellas are talking about is ridiculous.
      We are fortunate to have first hand experiences in Aboriginal communities but can’t you see the bigger issue is how to encompass societies view of Indigenous people who don’t get to experience communities first hand?

      As a whole Australian community we need to Close the Gap and build trust. Richard is not the problem solver nor do I think he is trying to be.

      Encourage others to not think of us and them nor feel guilty about it - just get on and make the mind-shift and trust in each other.

    • Alice says:

      11:23am | 24/03/11

      Ha! Erick, what do you think the current curriculum is? Aboriginal kids are taught a non-Aboriginal/Euro/Anglo-centred curriculum every single day. And Skippy.. A barrage of criticism about Aboriginal people does nothing to help the situation. What do YOU recommend then? I get the point that maybe Richard is an “inner urban, latte drinker, left of centre when I am trying to get laid, pass me a chardonay, I vote green because they will make other people pay for my lifestyle” but so what? If you have nothing to bring to the table, nothing to suggest, nothing to use as an alternative then who are you to put in your 2 cents? You could just as easily be called a lazy, ignorant, redneck too busy leeching off remote communities and getting paid a ridiculous amount to do so but.. Name calling does nobody any good.

    • Erick says:

      11:33am | 24/03/11

      Mulyen, you are doing your share of finger-pointing by talking about an imaginary genocide. Furthermore, Aboriginal culture was quite literally stone age, in that they never developed any technology beyond crudely sharpened stones. Pretending they had some sort of advanced society in harmony with Nature is indulging the “noble Savage” fantasy.

      My point is that there are two sides to the story, but people like you and Richard Farmer only seem to see one side.

    • Fran says:

      11:40am | 24/03/11

      Im sorry Mulyen but I would have to disagree with you there the aboriginal culture is stone age in fact its very old and unique. Obviously they cannot practise all the old traditions as they violate the law.

      Such as pointing the bone, spearing, taking under age girls as wives, knocking the front tooth out of boys, cutting the little finger in half from the girls. etc etc.

      And unlike so many other cultures it hasnt evolved as much which is why it is so unique and so special. Look at the white history of Aboriginal culture, take the difference from 1788 - 1910. Not a massive cultural change. Look at the change in Europe, Asia, South America, North America, Africa in comparison. Massive cultural, masive econiomic, social change.

      This is part of the reason why the health and education system have failed the aboriginal peoples.

      At the end of the day nobody….. nobody ever got anywhere with out some self motivation, self belief and hard work. If aboriginal australia wants to help it self they have to stop blaming the white man and pick themselves up. Stand tall, stand proud and walk forward.  If they are proactive the government will supprt them in the way forward. 

      ATSIC was a corrupt and self serving body that put aboriginal australia back by 20 years and those in charge should hang thier head in shame and the hurt thier own people and own culture for self gain.

      If the government put Mal Brough, Noel Pearson in charge they would find that these 2 blokes with indigenous connections to past generations would be a good start.

    • tom says:

      12:33pm | 24/03/11

      Us and them, we and them is one of the biggest problem we have as a Nation. I have worked in regional and remote communities for 10 years so have lots of first hand experiences to share, some good some bad. I know one thing. We are all humans, we are all Australian, Australia is 60,000 years old, sure it wasn’t called Australia but is belonged to somebody and they are our first nation people. I think most of these comments (and I’ve read them all) come from a colonial mindset, a Darwinian mindset which divides us by race. But we all come from the same mob originally. I am so proud to be a part of country that goes back 3000 generations, and today we are reminded these fellow countrymen and women need our help. Where has our sense of human kindness and compassion gone, our sense of kin and pride that we belong to this country, to this earth. Today I am reminded of Nelson Mandela’s words…Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are we not to be?

    • LeftRightOut says:

      01:08pm | 24/03/11

      @Mulyen, quote: “Like it or not, Aboriginal culture is part of OUR collective culture.  A vibrant and beautiful and empowering part worthy of your respect, regardless of your race”.

      Vibrant and beautiful you say, tell that to 10/12 year old rape victims up north, and see how empowered women feel in Aboriginal culture, with all due respect, you appear to actually know nothing about Aboriginal culture. maybe this is what you’d like to believe, but it aint the truth.

    • Mulyen says:

      01:09pm | 24/03/11

      Fran - Non indigenous Australia also has an ancient history.  Does that mean we call ourselves stone age also?  We all come from the same place, and we all had very different and harsher cultural protocols..

      Aboriginal Australia has developed and changed in an instant.  An Aboriginal inventor who made massive discoveries contributing to perpetual motion.  The helicopter.  The boomerang.  Same yarn.

      200 years is a blink of an eye for a people who have lived here for thousands of generations.  It’s time to stop thinking of Aboriginal culture as lesser, or archaic. 

      Erick - Genocide happened in this country. Both physical and cultural.  But it failed.  Consecutive government policy - White Australia Policy, Assimilation Policy, The Protection Act all served to ‘breed out’ Aboriginal people.

      The sooner we accept that and move on, the sooner we create a harmonious, conscious and human society in Australia.

      This isn’t about race, or comparisons, or you vs me.  It’s about humanity.  We need to be informed and positive to deal with this intense ignorance and negativity.

    • Mulyen says:

      01:09pm | 24/03/11

      Fran - Non indigenous Australia also has an ancient history.  Does that mean we call ourselves stone age also?  We all come from the same place, and we all had very different and harsher cultural protocols..

      Aboriginal Australia has developed and changed in an instant.  An Aboriginal inventor who made massive discoveries contributing to perpetual motion.  The helicopter.  The boomerang.  Same yarn.

      200 years is a blink of an eye for a people who have lived here for thousands of generations.  It’s time to stop thinking of Aboriginal culture as lesser, or archaic. 

      Erick - Genocide happened in this country. Both physical and cultural.  But it failed.  Consecutive government policy - White Australia Policy, Assimilation Policy, The Protection Act all served to ‘breed out’ Aboriginal people.

      The sooner we accept that and move on, the sooner we create a harmonious, conscious and human society in Australia.

      This isn’t about race, or comparisons, or you vs me.  It’s about humanity.  We need to be informed and positive to deal with this intense ignorance and negativity.

    • Bugsy says:

      01:44pm | 24/03/11

      Just because ‘culture’ is not written in books doesn’t mean it’s any less or more advanced than the other. By calling Indigenous culture ‘stone age’ shows complete ignorance to the complexity of many aspects of Indigenous culture.

      In fact, it’s wrong. ‘Stone age’ generally refers to Homo Erectus times. Any one with a brain would realise that Indigenous people are Homo Sapiens just as we are.

      In fact, with all the flood, cyclones, drought and fire events we have in this country isn’t it obvious that living in this country in permanent settlements is extremely hard? Farmers winge constantly about how tough it is. Well, if you use European farming techniques in an Australian landscape you’re going to run into problem because a) we don’t have consistent rainfall and b) If we’re not in drought, we’re flooding.

      In all actual fact, I reckon that they have got it right, and we are wrong. We don’t live sustainably. They did. We live more and more socially isolated lives away from our families and friends. They didn’t. Our elderly are ignored and treated like burdens. They respected their elders. We ruin the land that sustains us. They honoured the land that sustained them. We came and saw them in need of our help. They didn’t. We ignored them.

    • Fran says:

      02:10pm | 24/03/11

      Mulyen

      So who is this Aboriginal inventor who discovered perpetual motion???

      Perpetual motion would violate either the first or the second law of thermodynamics, or both.

      I think you are making things up.

      Stone age offically ended at the first use of metals, you know bronze, tin, copper. And from what we understand of history and aboriginal culture this hasnt been used.

      So what! It doesnt matter really. The fact that they hadnt advanced as far as other cultures doesnt mean much other than they adapted to thier surrounding and survived to a point that allowed them to. Because of climate, isolation, food sources etc.

      This is what make aboriginal culture unique, more unique than any other culture as they were probably living closer to what we understand stone age man to live in other parts of the world.

      Lets put it another way if this offends you the Chinese created pottery, infact they were so advanced in thier pottery that they didnt need the use of another substance to replace it. They basically were so good that they totally missed the invention of glass. Think about what glass is used for ? Do people think that the Chinese were back wards? In fact they were far more advanced is alot of areas. Similar with the Australian aboriginals they are fare more advanced in aspect of thier society, culture and life. But in some area they are way behind, like the Chinese and glass.

      They are archaic, archaic doesnt equal bad. It just means old.

      Take a deep breath, as I know it hard to face facts.

    • Mulyen says:

      02:34pm | 24/03/11

      Fran - Check out David Unaipon.  He’s an amazing man!  On the $50 note.  He’s a proud Aboriginal man, and he’s a well recognised inventor who was known as the Leonardo Da Vinci of Australia with his mechanical inventions…  Designed a helicopter pre - WW1.  Centrifugal motor.

      I think we’re on the same page in some ways.  All I am saying is that indigenous culture is a vibrant, changing, contemporary culture as much as yours or mine.

      The idea of referring to it as ‘stone age’ seems like Darwinian Racial Theory.  I have a problem with indigenous culture being thought of as a thing of the ‘past’.  As unchangeing. 

      I believe indigenous culture is empowering for ALL Australians and has the capacity to strengthen and grow our popular culture to be something worthy of respect.

    • Fran says:

      02:43pm | 24/03/11

      Well what does The Association of Social Anthropologists say about the use of the word stone age.


      “To describe any living group as ‘primitive’ or ‘Stone Age’ inevitably implies that they are living representatives of some earlier stage of human development that the majority of humankind has left behind. For some, this could be a positive description, implying, for example, that such groups live in greater harmony with nature .... For others, ... ‘primitive’ is a negative characterisation. For them, ‘primitive’ denotes irrational use of resources and absence of the intellectual and moral standards of ‘civilised’ human societies…. From the standpoint of anthropological knowledge, both these views are equally one-sided and simplistic.”

      Ok I will give you that Stone Age is condesending and shouldnt be used.

      Instead of Stone Age use the word antediluvian type culture

    • James1 says:

      03:14pm | 24/03/11

      Fran,

      What about “a culture that had not yet incorporated metal working into its repertoire of toolmaking skills”?

      Cumbersome, but accurate and (as far as I can see) not offensive in the least.

    • Fran says:

      05:09pm | 24/03/11

      James 1,

      I will go with that!!

    • Michael says:

      09:40pm | 24/03/11

      Lets just remember that it is non indigenous people that are on the precipice…....indigenous folk could have just gone on untill the next iceage or whatever whithout modern man and his machines.
      Hard for some to stomach, but white folk are the ones killing the world.

    • Erick says:

      05:07am | 24/03/11

      “An Aboriginal man is expected to live 11.5 years less than the Australian average.”

      A white man is expected to live 7 years less than a white woman.

      “An Aboriginal girl is 32 per cent less likely to finish her high school education.”

      A white boy is less likely than a white girl to finish his high school education.

      Why do these statistical differences indicate a problem when they affect Aborigines, but not when they affect men?

    • bobw says:

      05:29am | 24/03/11

      Mr Hijack strikes again.

    • Carz says:

      06:22am | 24/03/11

      Erick from your comments above I have come to realise that you don’t just hate women, you hate everyone who is not a white, Australian born, middle class male.

    • Cloud Strife says:

      07:05am | 24/03/11

      Derailing for Dummies.

    • Jon says:

      07:06am | 24/03/11

      It’s a problem cause they are Aborigines and whites aren’t.

      We need to help Aborigines as history has shown us, for the most part, they are quite incapable of helping themselves. I appreciate that is painting with a broad brush.

      From the moment the first whitey stepped foot on Australian soil, white people have always been several steps ahead of Aborigines as an evolved society, even moreso in regards to knowledge. Whites had boats capable of sailing the world, Aborigines had canoes, whites had advanced weaponry, Aborigines had spears.

      It may seem harsh to say, but it is true. And deep down you all know it.

    • Tim says:

      07:50am | 24/03/11

      And the idiots with no argument attack Erick again.

      Erick is completely right.
      How can one provide statistics like this without any explanation or reason as to why?
      Using “headline” statistics is less than useless as Erick has rightly pointed out.

    • Geoff - Brisbane says:

      08:45am | 24/03/11

      @ Carz - I guess if you’re a feminist, you hate men and its obvious the author hates whites. Thats what you’re saying. When you stand up for one group you must hate the other.

    • scott says:

      09:25am | 24/03/11

      Again, I think there’s some truth in this, and some who push the feminist barrow need to be mindful. But that doesn’t excuse all the other stuff - we have to deal with the facts.

      Bitterness is a hard way to live your life.

    • BTS says:

      11:03am | 24/03/11

      For the Erick trolls:

      You seem to be unable to comprehend that all Erick is asking for is EQUAL treatment.

      Why should women have more rights than men?
      Why should black people have more rights than white people?
      Why should men have to make an effort to make things right?
      Why should white people have to make an effort to make things right?

      People demanding a free ride of others, to advantage themselves, isn’t acceptable. 

      Get off your arse and make an effort yourself.

    • Alice says:

      11:25am | 24/03/11

      @Geoff, what a surprise. An uneducated person who thinks feminists hate men.. If you actually bothered to look up even the most basic definition of feminism, you would see that at the heart of the women’s movement is equality. Say it with me again, EQUALITY. You’re making a fool of yourself.

    • bobw says:

      11:26am | 24/03/11

      Tim:  “And the idiots with no argument attack Erick again.”

      Oh, great.  Erick the Manjacker and his trusty sidekick Manboob.

    • Greg says:

      12:07pm | 24/03/11

      @Alice, you are making a fool of yourself if you believe some dictionary definition instead of reality.

      Where is the equality in affirmative action and predetermed gender quotas? There is a big difference between equality of opportunity and equality of outcome.

      Where is the equality in reproductive rights and family law?

      Where is the equality in government media campaigns that oppose violence against women but not men?

      Where is the equality in UN Committees on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women (but not men). Article 4 of CEDAW allows special measures that favour women over men.

      Feminists are undeniably misandrist. The evidence is overwhelming and everywhere, and it’s about time that the misandry deniers like you acknowledged the truth.

    • Ando says:

      12:08pm | 24/03/11

      Jon,
      “History has shown us” is a bit simplified. If whites were isolated in Australia 40,000 years ago they would have been discovered in the 1700’s living a similar lifestyle. Comparing the great advancements achieved on the fertile soils of Europe which beniifted from the combined knowledge of nearby cultures to the Aboriginals is misleading. If the first fleet didnt have sheep and supplies coming from England they would all have died.
      Alternatively if Aboriginals ended up in Europe with 40,000 yrs ago they would be like you.

    • Erick says:

      12:13pm | 24/03/11

      @bobw: The fact that namecalling is your only tactic, demonstrates that you have no answer to my points.

    • bobw says:

      12:28pm | 24/03/11

      @Erick:  That does not follow, and only demonstrates that your grasp of logic is faulty.

      Your OP was OT.

    • Erick says:

      12:30pm | 24/03/11

      Ando, that is nonsense.

      Just compare resource-poor Japan with resource-rich Africa. It’s not about the land, it’s about the people and the culture.

    • Tim says:

      12:39pm | 24/03/11

      Bobw,
      you’ve now posted three comments completely devoid of anything resembling a point, yet you call Erick a hijacker?
      Nice work genius.

    • Tom says:

      12:44pm | 24/03/11

      @bobw, so you have an argument do you? Cummon fella, spit it out. The gang is all here. We are all waiting. ...

      @Carz, Cloud Strife, you are sad.

    • Cloud Strife says:

      12:50pm | 24/03/11

      @Tom, do you understand what ‘derailing’ is?

      The phrase ‘Derailing for Dummies’ is a common one when a discussion about one specific issue is pulled off to another topic that is not related to the first. For example, Erick bringing in men’s rights into a discussion about indigenous Australians.

    • Greg says:

      12:55pm | 24/03/11

      Erick, you are exactly correct. Ando is writing nonsense.

      Also add resource-poor and geographically isolated European islands Iceland and Ireland to the list, where somehow the population managed to develop first world economies.

      Also compare what happens when first world countries like Rhodesia and South Africa handover leadership to people with a different culture, and the country decends into third world chaos within a generation.

    • bobw says:

      01:14pm | 24/03/11

      Oh dear.  Tim/Tom, I value concision but if you need to things to be made crystal clear I suppose I can oblige.  My point is quite simple really.

      Erick’s OP asked:  “Why do these statistical differences indicate a problem when they affect Aborigines, but not when they affect men?”

      The fact is no one actually said they didn’t.  Why?  Well, this is just a pet theory of mine, but it may have had something to do with the subject-matter of the lead article being Aboriginal issues, not male disadvantage.  Thus, Erick’s decontextualised “statistical differences” are OT, and his OP amounted to a hijack.  Erick seems to labour under the delusion that the fact that an article doesn’t address what he wants it to address makes it somehow less valid, which licences him to impose his own persecution complex on the comments thread.  But here’s a news flash for you, chumps - not every article touching on social policy is reducible to, analogous to or even tangentially relevant to the “problem” of male oppression.

      I’m sure you’ll master the whole relevance/irrelevance thing one day.  Keep at it!

    • Tim says:

      01:44pm | 24/03/11

      Congratulations Bobby,
      only took you 8 hours to come up with a post that actually addressed the point made. Although you still needed to revert to name calling as if it increases the weight of your argument, so you still have some improvement to make. Silver Star for you.

      I took Eric’s initial post as an argument against useless statistics as I mentioned in my first post, if you even read it.
      Using “GAP” statistics as the basis for asserting some sort of discriminatory problem that the author says are:
      “figures which are truly embarrassing for our country.”
      Is silly without context as to the cause of these figures.
      The fact that you don’t see the relevance is your problem not mine.

    • bobw says:

      02:20pm | 24/03/11

      8 hours, Tim?  Pfft.  I think you’ll find that my post of 1:14 pm is identical in thrust to my post of 5:29 am, although personally I prefer the four word version.

      Criticism of the use of statistics is perfectly reasonable, but if you really think that’s what Erick was getting at, then I can only assume you are new around here.

    • Geoff - Brisbane says:

      02:34pm | 24/03/11

      @ Alice: The fool is you alice. I was using carz argument (that erick hates women because he stands up for men) in a different light to show how absurd it was, but did you read past the word “feminist” - no.

      Instead you went off on a tangent because you thought your precious feminism was under attack. It was an example alice.

      If i wanted to bad mouth feminists, i’d use your post.

    • Tom says:

      02:45pm | 24/03/11

      @bobw and Cloud Strife, We all agree that the article is about trust between (separate) groups. I think Eric has a great point. His point is that our media is philibustered with two or three PC causes to the exclusion of other less sexy issues.

      This is is inherently divisive rather than inclusive and only exacerbates separation. Separation (read apartheid) is part of the problem in achieving “equality” in our society. It has led to dysfunctional outcomes, one of which is lack of trust between two (separate) groups in our society.

      I hope you don’t want to argue that the outcomes of 40 years affirmative action have been anything other than woeful in terms of achieving equality in our society. It has merely served to enrich a few carpetbaggers.

      Noel Pearson has called it that the concept special purpose victims of helps no-one not even the special purpose victims. Evidence of this is everywhere in terms of measurements we have.

      @Alice and the other ad hominem users “uneducated”, “Manboob” don’t help. As for the Carz comment, ....

      BTS has summed it up well in saying “You seem to be unable to comprehend that all Erick is asking for is EQUAL treatment.”

    • Ando says:

      02:48pm | 24/03/11

      Erick,
      Japan isnt isolated , Australias closest nieghbours are Newzealand and Papua hardly equal to the continent of Asia .
      The ancestors of the Aboriginals were the first to start travelling abroad, the world was different then and they had what was available at the time. At the time the sea levels were low and crude sea craft were sufficent to island hope, then things changed and aboriginals became the most isolated in the world.
      Greg,
      Iceland and Ireland?
      Iceland was the last European country to be settled, mostly by Norsemen in the 9th and 10th centuries. They came mainly from Norway and elsewhere in Scandinavia, and from the Norse settlements in the British Isles, from where a Celtic element was also introduced. Maybe if they got there 40,000 years ago it would be different , however even if they did , I’m sure they would have had alot more visitors than the Aboriginals.
      Maybe if you and Erick were with Aboriginals when they got here 40000 yers ago things would have been different and the first Europeons would have discovered a thriving metropolis when they arrived.

    • michael says:

      09:34pm | 24/03/11

      Men take more risks than women thats why the difference between white men and women.
      Indigenous is a whole different story, i have no facts.
      Compare apples with apples, to be fair.

    • james milton says:

      05:24am | 24/03/11

      I know it’s incredibly politically incorrect to say, but South Africa under apartheid was better for both blacks and whites. Since the abolition of apartheid, South Africa has turned into a poverty stricken, crime infested cesspool. Murder rates have skyrocketed, as has unemployment, as the country goes from bad, to worse, to worse still.

      I do not condone apartheid, as it discriminates on race, but the message we may be able to take from South Africa (and increasingly, Europe) is that multiculturalism has never, and will never work anywhere for an extended period of time. The gaps between cultures simply grow over time, and common ground is hard to find. Different groups of people wanting totally different things makes governing extremely difficult for any leadership.

      What are non-indigenous people to do to alleviate the problem in Australia? The government has tried everything. Throwing money at the problem, building infrastructure, providing race based benefits such as Abstudy and ‘are you of Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander descent’ questions on all kinds of forms from doctors surgeries to university applications.

      Nothing has worked, so are there any new, credible suggestions as to how to deal with the massive gap between indigenous and non-indigenous Australians? The situation, as the article says, really is dire and a complete embarrassment to this country.

    • scott says:

      09:29am | 24/03/11

      That’s just silly outright. If you’ve been to the US or Canada for a start you’d see that there are many great things about their obviously ‘multicultural’ societies - notwithstanding the fact that their indigenous people still have some major grievances.

      How about this: go down the street, and next time you walk past an indigenous, [or asian, or mediteranean, or arabic] person, say “Hi!” like you mean it. And if they say hi back, talk with them. You can do it.

    • Tinkerbell the doctor's wife says:

      12:59pm | 24/03/11

      @scott, a beautiful sentiment. I think I am going to cry. Then we could sing a couple of verses of kumbaya, sprinkle around some fairy dust and share a chardonnay with them? That ought to do it? Failing that perhaps, we could throw another sh1tload of taxes from Australian bogan, red-neck workers at them. Yep, bewdy, problem solved.

    • Scott says:

      01:55pm | 24/03/11

      good one Tinker!!  Got me a beaudy!!

    • Jade says:

      06:31am | 24/03/11

      What other gaps are we going to close? The benefits they are paid, how about we make that equal with what white Australians receive. 

      I agree with Eric’s first comment, why is it only white people that need to learn Indigenous culture? I already did when I was at school… why can’t the indigenous people learn about where we came from as well?

      Yet again another biased article.

    • Kevin says:

      09:19am | 24/03/11

      Most Aboriginals speak the white man’s language, wear the white man’s clothes, play the white man’s sports, eat the white man’s food, watch the white man’s television ....

    • Emily says:

      09:48am | 24/03/11

      Jade - “white” culture doesn’t need to be learned, it is the landscape, the wallpaper; it’s ingrained. If your questions are in earnest and you truly want to learn more about it look up Dominant Privilege on Wikipedia sometime for a start. But I suspect you have already made up your mind, sadly.

      @Kevin - White man’s language? Do you mean English, French, German, Spanish, Russian? What, pray tell, are white men’s clothes? What is white man’s food? Please. Just. Go. Away.

    • Fairsnotfair says:

      10:05am | 24/03/11

      @ Kevin: and take the white-man’s Centrelink handouts without conscience. If you have really really tried to get a job, then I empathize but when it is multi-generational not to work, that’s different.

      A day’s work for pay is all I expect.

    • Scott says:

      11:09am | 24/03/11

      You know, I think somehow the intervention in the NT has worsened the situation, because it makes us think that problems are all “over there” a long way from where we live.

      I think the intervention was misguided, not the least because all the problems it was supposed to address exist in every state and city - every day every person in Australia would be walking or driving past people who suffer these same issues.

      But the intervention left everyone thinking that there are not things we need to look at on our doorsteps - which I think is a big problem. For every issue that got raised prior to the intervention, I could not think of one that you would not find more than half an hour from the main post office in any capital city - and not just in indigenous families. This is the big lie.

    • Jade says:

      12:13pm | 24/03/11

      @ Emily, I am not talking about “white” culture.  I am talking about our history, where we came from and how we managed to be here.

    • Kevin says:

      01:17pm | 24/03/11

      @Emily “Please. Just. Go. Away.”  Obviously, this is not an example of “white man’s language”.  Is there supposed to be some significance to this misused punctuation?  Seeing that I need to explain myself, the point of my post above is that indigenous people know a lot more about “white culture” than Jade apparently gives credit.  I regard English as a “white man’s” language and obviously in the current context, that is the language to which I am referring.  I don’t feel sufficiently inclined to state the bleeding obvious to explain to you what I mean by “white man’s food”.  Use your imagination.
      @ Fairsnotfair:  Explain where all the jobs are for indigenous people.  Would you employ an aboriginal?  Be honest now.  Personally, I am more concerned about all the money wasted on middle class welfare recipients.  Not only do those bludgers take the money “without conscience” but they do so with a sense of entitlement.

    • Mulyen says:

      02:40pm | 24/03/11

      I am pretty sure that is a common misconception.  Aboriginal people do NOT recieve more money than white people. 

      This is a common argument, and upon hearing this I spent quite some time trying to find where these huge pools of money exists to support some friends of mine who are having a tough time.

      They dont.

      Correct me if I am wrong, any websites or information to support?

    • Fairsnotfair says:

      02:54pm | 24/03/11

      @ Kevin - apologies, I was actually agreeing with you. I make no excuses for a person’s colour or rank. If Aboriginal people want to receive special treatment, then I agree stop wearing white fella’s gear & driving their cars. And no, I won’t employ an Aboriginal in my business. But then again, I won’t employ anyone who is late, drunk, irregular or freeloading on me.

      @Mulyen: have a peek into the education system. While a large number of white families struggle to pay for an excursion, Aboriginal kids get to go for nix. Aboriginal people can enrol in numerous fee paying courses for nix. Their HECS fees are nix (plus a lowering of the UAI). Their car loans are at 1% interest and their housing loans are under 4% fixed, non-indexed, with no repayment schedule dealines.

      Health? Open door, instant admission lest the nursing staff be accused of racial inequality. I work in a govt sector that witnesses and is party to these transgressions against white people every day.

      I have had members of my family attacked verbally for owning (or repaying) the home I live in. I have been screamed at for not sharing my groceries that my wages have just paid for.

      Yes, I’m pretty sure “it’s” not fair.

    • Jade says:

      04:14pm | 24/03/11

      @ Fairsnotfair is right.  When I was growing up, my family didn’t have much money at all.  This meant that I missed out on a lot of school excursions and camps, but all the Aboriginal students had their camps, excursions, special lunches etc all paid for by the government.  Free health care, cheap medicine, discounted interest rates, cheaper public housing not to mention what ever they receive from the government.  How many white people get that?

      It isn’t fair at all.

    • Sodapoppy says:

      04:44pm | 24/03/11

      Yeah, they even watch colour TV

    • David says:

      06:31am | 24/03/11

      East is East and West is West and never the twain shall meet !!!!

    • Catching up says:

      06:34am | 24/03/11

      “Since the abolition of apartheid, South Africa has turned into a poverty stricken, crime infested cesspool. Murder rates have skyrocketed, as has unemployment, as the country goes from bad, to worse, to worse still”

      What if you are correct has changed for the blacks?

    • Half-Nelson Mandela says:

      07:47am | 24/03/11

      Catching up - to answer your question, South Africa has turned into a poverty stricken, crime infested cesspool. Murder rates have skyrocketed, as has unemployment, as the country goes from bad, to worse, to worse still.

    • scott says:

      11:13am | 24/03/11

      Have you ever spoken to any from there when it was apartheid? They will tell you some real horror stories. If you think it was okay in those days, you’re not dealing with reality. Nowadays we are more able to see the realities, including the bad problems - previously the white government ignored or hid the problems.

    • james milton says:

      06:38pm | 24/03/11

      @Scott

      Back then the country was more stable for everyone. Murderers were given harsh sentences, most people had work, and you could go out without fearing for your life or safety. The shanty towns were a blight on the country, and the racist leaders were nothing to be proud of. Either was Saddam Hussein, yet under his iron fist Iraq was more or less stable.

      But I suppose the one thing that makes post-apartheid South Africa stand out is the fact that it went from having average rape statistics to becoming the WORLD RAPE CAPITAL. More rapes are committed in South Africa than anywhere else in the entire world.

    • Diamantina Dick says:

      06:42am | 24/03/11

      Whilstever “paternalistic” is a dirty word the present situation will remain. Unfortunately the Indigenous are victims of the increasing reality gap between inner city nirvanaville and the remainder of the country. Those around before ‘67 know the solutions but few nowdays can handle the truth.

    • Sick of the bruddahs says:

      10:32am | 24/03/11

      But this isn’t just an indigenous issue. The gap between city & country (or rather, Sydney and the rest of Australia) is the real problem. Being indigenous is a “lucky” thing if you live in rural Australia. This classification makes you eligible for all manner of opportunities: whether it be educational, financial, work or health. Being white simply doesn’t.

      How many people defending the indigenous ‘victims’ realize that persons claiming Aboriginal genealogy are eligible for housing loans fixed at under 4% interest non-indexed and with no set repayments? How many indigenous claiming people actually get off their backsides and take advantage of this from the big bad “white fella”?

    • Lucy says:

      12:57pm | 24/03/11

      Well said Sick. If people want true equality then it means all have precisely the same benefits and precisely the same access to education and health.

      A non-aborigine in a rural community has to travel sometimes hundreds of kms to get basic health care and must pay to put their children in bording school to get a good education however it is deemed unfair for an Aborigine to have to do the same things and extra benefits are provided for them.

      On many occasions I have been tempted to tick the “Are you Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander” box to access the higher pension, the priority access to higher education, the priority access to employment etc.

      If people want true equality then all people have equal access regardless of their decent or location in this giant nation of ours.

    • Fred says:

      01:53pm | 24/03/11

      @Sick of the bruddahs - “How many indigenous claiming people actually get off their backsides and take advantage of this” Why don’t you try looking: http://www.iba.gov.au/

    • Fred says:

      01:59pm | 24/03/11

      @ Lucy - you talk about equality for benefits as if we are all currently equal.  Which we are not.  Which is where the benefits come in.  Seriously how can people be so willfully ignorant.  There is no ‘higher’ pension - and for god’s sake woman don’t you understand why there are alternative access routes to university for indigenous australians?? It’s because education will help people get out of this mess! And it’s been proven that people that get an education from problematic areas return to their homes and HELP. 

      I think a lot of people have no idea as to what the actual benefits are.  For example - the requirements to be eligible for abstudy are exactly the same requirements as youth allowance.  How about you do some research before talking about things you don’t know about.

    • Outraged says:

      07:34pm | 24/03/11

      Lucy: I always wondered what would happen if a “White Person” ticked the box saying “Are you Aboriginal/Torres Strait Islander”! How would they prove you AREN’T!

    • John K says:

      07:08am | 24/03/11

      Equal standing for Aborginals is impossible to achieve - trust me I have tried. Came to the conclusion that you can lead a horse to water but you can’t force it to drink.  Sometimes it works, sadly most times it fails.

    • Emily says:

      09:53am | 24/03/11

      Oh, ok then. Well, if you’ve tried. That’s that.

      Someone alert the Indigenous aka equine population - sorry, John K has tried to “force” you to drink the water and for some unknown reason you wouldn’t. So we’re done with you.

    • John K says:

      07:09am | 24/03/11

      Equal standing for Aborginals is impossible to achieve - trust me I have tried. Came to the conclusion that you can lead a horse to water but you can’t force it to drink.  Sometimes it works, sadly most times it fails.

    • scubasteve says:

      07:13am | 24/03/11

      No Australian child should be born into a remote aboriginal community.  Show me one that has high levels of employment, education and health outcomes. THIS is the real problem. Aboriginal kids are as beaut as any. But if they are born into the cycle of violence, impoverishment and alcohol; they are condemned. There is little of aboriginal culture to like. Keep the best parts of it and move iAboriginals into the modern world.  Or just accept the statistics above.
      And yes i have worked with/in many remote comunitys. Third world slums. all of them.

    • Emily says:

      09:57am | 24/03/11

      How nice of you to concede that “Aboriginal kids are as beaut as any”. What a revelation.

      I suggest to you scubasteve that it is the “modern world” that brought the “violence, impoverishment and alcohol” to Indigenous culture.

      And PS - those of us with any respect for language, and just other people generally, got together and agreed that the term Third World is pretty offensive. Guess you missed the memo while you were in the remote communities.

    • Steve says:

      10:28am | 24/03/11

      I agree with SubaSteve.

      And Emily, you and your friends may have agreed at the 30th annual social democratic conference on the advancement of the peoples’  coalition for the status of people everywhere, but the rest of us did not sign up to your Orwellian expunging of words and phrases.

    • Markus says:

      10:42am | 24/03/11

      Great stuff Emily. Care to bring anything to this discussion beside ridiculously over the top sarcasm?

      You can suggest that Aboriginal culture had no violence before the “modern world”  all you want, it won’t make it true. And it won’t make it go away, either.

    • James1 says:

      10:53am | 24/03/11

      Indeed Emily.  Before white people came to Australia, Aboriginal society was all about hugs, holding hands, and fluffy bunnies.  No brutish, nasty and short lives to be found across the entire continent.

    • Scott says:

      11:22am | 24/03/11

      Steve - agreed. No child should be born into conditions like that. But guess what? That’s where the people are. So that’s where they have their kids.

      Both my parents were born into conditions like that, neither of them aboriginal, and both within 5 hours drive of Sydney.  But guess what’s happened? The place they lived now has better - but not Sydney standard - health care and other services.

      So things can improve - if we have the will to change them.

    • Emily says:

      11:53am | 24/03/11

      Point taken @Markus, @James1 et al.

      I have been very sarcastic, and upon reflection aggressive towards individuals, in the majority of my comments. I should have been more sensible and waited until I felt less angry about the blatant racism that I’m reading here.

      I do (sincerely) apologise that my tone hasn’t lifted the conversation very much; I can do better. I think in the meantime though I’m going to absent myself from further reading - it’s way too depressing.

    • L. says:

      07:21am | 24/03/11

      “I know it’s incredibly politically incorrect to say, but South Africa under apartheid was better for both blacks and whites. “

      Yes, it is terrible to say.. but try and name just one successful “black” run nation..??

    • Geoff - Brisbane says:

      08:47am | 24/03/11

      USA, at the moment.

    • Sir Ronald Bradnam says:

      08:59am | 24/03/11

      How do you define success are you talking about money, lifespan, education, health. Tanzania is doing very well as are Gabon, Botswana, Angola with fast growing economies and stable reasonably uncorrupt governments. Tourism in these countries is rapidly increasing as is the infrastructure. If we could just get the patronising christians to poke their noses out of most black countries we will see an decrease in aids with the education of the use of condoms.
      So there is a few and that doesnt take into account areas like Brazil, Cayman Islands that have more than 50% of their populations that are black.

    • PJ says:

      09:56am | 24/03/11

      USA isn’t being successfully run at the moment.

    • L. says:

      11:26am | 24/03/11

      “USA, at the moment. “

      Really..? “black” run doesn’t mean led by a half white guy who’s govenment is 90% white.

    • L. says:

      11:28am | 24/03/11

      “How do you define success are you talking about money, lifespan, education, health. Tanzania is doing very well as are Gabon, Botswana, Angola with fast growing economies and stable reasonably uncorrupt governments. “”

      Those that are “first” world and where less than 3% of the nationas GDP is lost to systemic government corruption.

    • Fairsnotfair says:

      01:07pm | 24/03/11

      No, L, your response needs to be quantified. You asked us to “try and name just one successful “black” run nation..?? ”

      I understood you were putting emphasis on “successful” thereby rendering Geoff from Brisbane’s answer incorrect.

    • Alex says:

      07:26am | 24/03/11

      Richard, your article is as moving as the comments are depressing. I think the comments above largely prove your point, don’t they?

      Skippy, did you even read Richard’s bio? If not, it’s here for you: http://www.thepunch.com.au/author-bios/richard-fleming/. I reckon he’s pretty well qualified.

      And in any case, what qualifications do you need to say that we should be nicer to each other? Ignorance breeds fear and mistrust. Therefore, we should learn about each other and be nicer.

      I honestly thought as I was reading this article ‘how could anyeone disagree with this?’, but apparently Erick, Skippy and others would rather we just hate everyone.

    • james milton says:

      07:40am | 24/03/11

      How do we close the massive gap?

      Continue putting ‘Are you of Aboriginal or Torres Straight Islander descent’ on application forms.

      Other methods of ‘reverse racism’?

      Your words sound nice, but you have no solution. “Trust”? Do you honestly think that is a realistic proposition for such a massive, widespread, long-term, embedded problem for which everything has failed?

    • PJ says:

      08:09am | 24/03/11

      How many Aboriginal communities have you lived in Alex?

      Neither of them said anything about hating Aboriginals.  You imagined that is what they said.

    • Seanr says:

      08:36am | 24/03/11

      I read his bio, I just thought he sounded a bit chuffed with himself “the only difference that he has to the many other white Australian males ranting in the media is that he comes with a happy and progressive perspective.”...really

    • Buzz says:

      10:48am | 24/03/11

      I’m with you Alex - there’s a difference between commenters generating robust discussion and indulging in martyrdom ( oh no WE’RE the victims ... and women hate me!). This part of Richard’s article resonates with me “Understanding 60,000 years of Aboriginal culture is something that is beautiful and something we as Australians should value and be proud to experience.”
      It’s not a solution in and of itself, but it’s coming from a much healthier place than some of the comments above.

    • Syl says:

      11:57am | 24/03/11

      James

      I agree with what you say, but I can’t stand the phrase “reverse racism”.

      There is no such thing, it is simply racism.  Racism refers to discrimination against any race, not just those who aren’t white.

    • Mulyen says:

      02:44pm | 24/03/11

      Alex - Awesome.  All power to ya.

    • Jack says:

      07:30am | 24/03/11

      The day the aboriginals have the slightest sign of integrity and admit that they ARE NOT the “First Australians” (in fact at best the third or latter) and that THEY have a large part to do with their current situation, I will listen to them. The problem is they are so caught up in the gravy train and victim mentality that they have no hope as a group of becoming contributing members of society as opposed to being leaches. The aboriginals that have gotten off their arse are the only ones I have time for.

    • David says:

      07:58am | 24/03/11

      Well said .

    • David says:

      07:58am | 24/03/11

      Well said .

    • David says:

      07:58am | 24/03/11

      Well said .

    • PaulB says:

      08:15am | 24/03/11

      Living in the North, I see aboriginals and Islanders who have indeed gotten off their arses.  The ones that haven’t (and never will) treat them as traitors, and in a community that is so tight with family ties that can be devastating.  Those who have tried to break away from the worst aspects of what is laughably called “aboriginal culture” are deserving of real admiration for their courage and persistence.  Change is happening but it is patchy and slow.  Many will never change, certainly not while we continue paying them to contribute nothing except street crime.

    • Marcel Campbell says:

      08:39am | 24/03/11

      I am remote area nurse and I have worked and lived in 32 communities in 3 states and one Territory. I guess that puts me in the category of beings a serial offender as I keep returning to the scene of the crime. It has been my onservation that the cry we Must Close The Gap(s) which ones will still take generations until there is equity in education and health. From this will flow social development that will lay foundations for rightful equality. Despite the rheteroric.  I doubt that this will not change for generations as there are too many vested interests( black and white) who would no longer benefit financially from the third biggest industry in the NT. Also, the public forgets/ignores that Indigenous Australians are the only dispossessed hunter/gatherers who have been asked to jump from stone age to nanotechnology in just over 200 years. Small gap, quantum leap! .

    • PJ says:

      09:57am | 24/03/11

      Bad Stutter Dave.

    • Toby says:

      10:13am | 24/03/11

      “Victim mentality” seems a pretty reasonable response to genocide.

      Need I say more?

    • Fred says:

      02:09pm | 24/03/11

      @Jack.  What really makes me angry is generalisations like the ones you just made.  FFS - I am aboriginal and am none of the things that you just described.  So how about you get off your arse and stop thinking that just because some people of a particular race act a particular way, means it’s ok to say that everyone from that race acts like that.

      People talk about how there are varying definitions of ‘racism’ - in my books, generalising a race like that is one of those definitions.

    • Tom says:

      03:28pm | 24/03/11

      @Fred, Jack said “The aboriginals that have gotten off their arse are the only ones I have time for. ” You and him should be buddies.

    • fred says:

      05:04pm | 24/03/11

      @ Tom.  Hmmm.  It appears I was too enraged to read that last sentence.  Well in that case, I still worry that Jack will let his preconceived judgements affect how he treats people like ME before he knows anything about me.

    • Ted says:

      07:37am | 24/03/11

      Interesting this article starts with reference to apartheid given that in a ABC interview with Nelson Mandela and an aboriginal activist, he clearly articulated some of the many “positive” discrimination aboriginals received, etc, etc and then told the aboriginal that he did not even know the first thing about discrimination. Interview was terminated after that statement.

    • Rover of North Cooma says:

      08:59am | 24/03/11

      Can you please provide a link to this interview?

    • James1 says:

      11:09am | 24/03/11

      I saw that once - don’t know where to find it online, but do search Rover - its quite awesome and well worth the effort.

    • Rossco says:

      11:46am | 24/03/11

      Ive heard this statement before. Source to back it up because google isnt providing anything.

    • James1 says:

      03:18pm | 24/03/11

      I received it in an email Rossco, a few years ago.  Even if I could track the email down, I couldn’t link it here.

      After work today, I will have a concerted look and if I find it, I will get back to you.

    • deb says:

      07:56am | 24/03/11

      I have a close relative,re:brother in law who is half aboriginal.He is an alcoholic and plays the abbo bit right down to the wire.
      Anything to get more from the Gov.
      Funny thing was when it suited him to work he did.Not now though.
      Living in slum like conditions,a once nice home,filthy!Living from fortnight to fortnight.SAD

    • Rose says:

      10:01am | 24/03/11

      I could say something similar about my sister-in-law and her husband, and they are white, 3rd and 4th generation Australians…..your point?

    • AdamC says:

      10:35am | 24/03/11

      I think we racialise these things way too much. There is no shortage of generationally welfare-dependent, dropkick white people. Sure, there may be more indigenous ones as a proportion of the indigenous population, but their underlying problems (unemployment, susbtance abuse, poor educational attainment, etc) are the same.

      I think it is both hilarious and horrifying when well-meaning peole lecture us about how aborigines are alcoholics or perpetually unemployed because nasty Mr Whitey came along two-hundred-and-something years ago and wrecked their primitive idyll. What rubbish! Aborogines who are drunk and out-of-work are drunk and out-of-work for the same reason as anyone else who is drunk and out-of-work. Of course, non-indigenous drop-kicks don’t have people making spurious, black arm-band excuses for their problems.

    • Seanr says:

      11:20am | 24/03/11

      Well said Adam C.

    • Mulyen says:

      02:46pm | 24/03/11

      Adam C for Prime Minister.

    • Truganini says:

      08:02am | 24/03/11

      The comments of the haters and bigots like eric, skippy, jack, jade and the rest are the reason most newspapers do not allow comments on articles about aboriginals. They always turn into a who can hate more contest.
      How angry and empty their lives must be with so much hate inside.

    • Tim says:

      09:11am | 24/03/11

      “How angry and empty their lives must be with so much hate inside. “

      Ironic comment is ironic.

    • Greg says:

      12:25pm | 24/03/11

      Those that hate the truth, call the truth hate.

    • Robby Hart says:

      08:06am | 24/03/11

      Mate,

      We can never make any progress with the Aboriginals until they leave the communities and become a part of society, act like Aussies and get treatede like Aussies.

      While they huddle in remote communities and fight their family feuds they will remain what they have always been. Desert people.

      Yes, some have moved and adapted and do well. But they are by far the minority.

      In Aboriginal communities anyone who has more than anyone else is beseiged until they all have nothing. This is a big part of why so many give up trying. If they do succeed the family turns up mand takes their “SHARE”.

      I’ve seen it up close for over 50 years and nothing has changed at all for them. It’s actually their choice, we can’t make them do anything. Sound racist? It’s not, It’s their true culture.

    • Jen Bashford says:

      11:12am | 24/03/11

      “act like Aussies and get treated like Aussies”

      Indigenous people ARE Aussies. And like all Australians, different indigenous people live different lifestyles, depending on their education, employment, where they live etc. And, regardless of where in Australia anyone lives, they are part of a society - societies are difference across the nation. Living in a remote community doesn’t mean absence from society, it involves interaction in a different society from that of large cities. In fact, Indigenous people living in homeland communities are generally healthier, happier and more ‘functional’ than those who have moved to more populated cities and towns.

      As for being treated like Aussies, I will respond in regards to Indigenous people living in remote communities. By treated like Aussies do you mean be provided with adequate infrastructure such as roads, housing, schools to service the area? Or provided with adequate personnel, such as teachers, nurses, doctors, police etc? Or not being charged exorbitant prices for fresh food?

      It’s the choice of ALL Australians - Indigenous and non - to make an effort to bridge misunderstandings, and mistrust and work towards ending the differences and inequalities that exist in our country. Which is exactly what Richard is suggesting in his article.

    • BobM says:

      12:08pm | 24/03/11

      Hey Jen,

      ‘From: The Australian February 28, 2011 5:29PM
      Indigenous Australians cost taxpayers double what’s spent on others, says report Joe Kelly

      A NEW report shows taxpayers spent more than $40,000 on every indigenous Australian in a year - more than twice that paid for every non-indigenous person.
      The 2010 indigenous expenditure report released today shows that for the year 2008-2009 expenditure “related to” indigenous Australians totalled $21.9 billion, or 5.3 per cent of total general government expenditure.

      While expenditure on non-indigenous Australians is estimated at $18,351 per person, expenditure on indigenous Australians per head of population is estimated at $40,228.

      The report comes on the back of increasing violence and dysfunction in Alice Springs, with the former indigenous affairs minister in the Howard government, Mal Brough, telling The Weekend Australian the Northern Territory intervention wasn’t working or creating lasting social change.

      The new report reveals disproportionate funding for indigenous Australians as compared with non-indigenous Australians across a range of categories, and is likely to raise questions about the outcomes that are being achieved for indigenous peoples.

      In terms of educational expenditure, $3.3 billion or 5.8 per cent of spending goes towards services related to indigenous Australians. This means, in terms of educational spending, an estimated $2.40 is spent per indigenous person for every one dollar spent per non-indigenous person.

      Expenditure on indigenous health services was also estimated at $3.8 billion, or 4.8 per cent of government expenditure in that area. The per capita breakdown again reveals that for every dollar spent on health services for non-indigenous Australians, $1.95 is spent on indigenous Australians.

      The cost of employment services for indigenous Australians was estimated to be $4.4 billion, representing about 4.3 per cent of government expenditure in that area.

      In this category, the report estimates that for each indigenous person $8062 is spent on economic participation services as compared to $4578 per non-indigenous person.

      And the discrepancy is replicated in expenditure on housing services, with the report finding that $4246 is spent for each indigenous Australian as compared to $1781 for non-indigenous Australians.’


      How much more are we supposed to spend on them to make them ‘healthy and happy’?

    • Nigel says:

      08:07am | 24/03/11

      @ Jack - I think a great number of AUSTRALIANS will agree with this.
      Earn respect and you will be given respect.
      When we start to talk about AUSTRALIANS rather than the black one, the white ones, the yellow ones, (any other PC incorrect names) then and only then will there be a lessor gap. An add campaign which said - I am, you are, we are, Australians - is how we need to look at it.
      I have parents who paid taxes for 45 years during their working lives and they don’t get the same amount of pension that others get as handout. Where’s the gap comparison stop?
      Looking at the majority of the comments above it appears that the majority of people feel the same way.

    • PJ says:

      08:12am | 24/03/11

      When was the last time you were in an Aboriginal Community Richard?  Have you noticed that the current generations have almost no idea (nor care) about their own Aboriginal heritage and culture?

    • Rich Fleming says:

      09:08am | 24/03/11

      @PJ I grew up in a rural country town that had a large Aboriginal population, 15%  of the students in my class were Aboriginal , I played all my footy and cricket with my Aboriginal mates…
      But when did this article and these comments become about me?

      Reconciliation is a two way street mate - it’s also about us learning about the beautiful Aboriginal culture and history.
      Embarrassingly my school taught me nothing about the culture or the history and I hope it is something that our society can rectify.

    • PJ says:

      10:13am | 24/03/11

      Rich,

      It becomes about you when you write an article asking us to think or act differently. Obviously, your background and experience influence your opinion and perspective.

      15% isn’t a high number and I would suggest that with such a number. the Aboriginals would be more accustomed to white culture, since that is the environment in which they are living.

      In a 100% Aboriginal Community you see the younger generations - listening to black american music, dressing like black american rappers or basketball players, walking like black american youth - there is no Aboriginal Culture anymore.  The older generations haven’t been able to maintain their culture.  The younger generations don’t know anything about ‘smoking out evil spirits’, few of them dance or paint or hunt traditionally.

      It is indeed a two way street.  You can’t teach Aboriginal culture if they no longer have one themselves.

    • Whitefella Teacher says:

      11:18am | 24/03/11

      @PJ Sorry it says a lot about your limited experiences and observation of Indigenous communities. Nothing you wrote is untrue but you must have only been allowed to scratch the surface…

      You obviously haven’t integrated with the Indigenous culture you have been to / lived in? I have learnt so much from living in Aboriginal communities, hunting, bush medicine, stories, resourcefulness, resilience, spirituality and connection to nature that I am unable to replicate no matter how hard I try.

      Maybe if you were a little more understanding you would have been privileged to participate in these activities.

      But again this article is not about you, Richard or me it is about a better understanding, acceptance and ultimately trust.

    • Erick says:

      11:40am | 24/03/11

      “Reconciliation is a two way street mate - it’s also about us learning about the beautiful Aboriginal culture and history.”

      But evidently it’s not about Aborigines making any changes in their own lives.

      My criticism stands. You see only half the problem.

    • PJ says:

      12:32pm | 24/03/11

      Whitefella Teacher:

      Interesting that you know what I did and didn’t experience in the Aboriginal Community.  Maybe you have no idea of what cultural exchange took place.

      I bet you gained more Aboriginal Culture from the Elders of the community that you did the 25 year olds or even the 35 year olds.

      The only one who knows you have to smoke out the spirits for the passing of a full blood, is ...the whitefella teacher…is but one example.

    • Whitefella Teacher says:

      01:56pm | 24/03/11

      Well PJ wrong assumption again - it was my students who I learnt from, 5-12 year olds. And I do feel like a whitefella teacher teaching whitefella stuff which is just as ridiculous as us not teaching authentic Indigenous studies… I haven’t got many answers I’m afraid but I do have a better balanced perspective and just wish that for everyone…

    • Mulyen says:

      02:59pm | 24/03/11

      I think the point is that it IS a two way street.  We cant keep pointing fingers, we ALL have to try and learn to understnd eachother better.

      Non-indigenous Australians need to learn about Australian history and take indigenous disparity with a grain of salt.  Black fellas remain in their communities because they have been there for 2000 generations.  They know the songs that map their land.  Story and symbol connects them to the world around them.

      Why would they want to live anywhere else? 

      NSW has the highest number of indigeous people.  NSW was one of the worst affected by the Assimilation Policy.  Culture was literally stolen.

      Now we have young people searching for their identity.  they relate to US rap music that articulates struggles from low socio economic contexts.  They relate to that.  Is that so threatening?

      There are ways to re-connect people to culture, to country.  That includes young people, you and me, all Australians. 

      It is EVERYBODY’s responsibility.

    • PJ says:

      03:56pm | 24/03/11

      Whitefella teacher

      The 5- 12 year olds teach you ‘hunting, bush medicine, stories, resourcefulness, resilience, spirituality and connection to nature’...it’s a wonder they aren’t running the country with those advanced skills.

    • JT says:

      08:29am | 24/03/11

      How about this for a change; who cares. We have literally poured billions of dollars into aboriginal policies after the years, spent countless man hours helping them and for what? nothing much as changed. The intervention under Howard was about as close as we got to any improvements but it did not go far enough and is typically being wound back by Labor anyway.

      The day you come to me with proof Aboriginals are taking responsibility for themselves and their own actions is the day I will care again.

    • Jay says:

      08:33am | 24/03/11

      Good article Richard, the message you are trying to send is clear. Take the time to learn more about each other… Its done with other cultures…  I am Aboriginal both my parents are, I went to school and had a decent education. Aboriginal culture was not taught at my schools, it was an awkward subject that was never explained properly. And John 7:06 your colonialist mindset is whats holding our country back, open your mind brother not everything is so black and white!

    • james milton says:

      09:18am | 24/03/11

      I don’t know where/when you went to school but we had lots of lessons on Aboriginal history and culture. I loved it, I even tried to build my own gunya (sp?) on several occasions!

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      01:31pm | 24/03/11

      @james, I don’t know where/when you went to school, but I finished 4yrs ago & I never learned any of those things in either primary or high school :(

    • Jay says:

      04:33pm | 24/03/11

      James Milton, I went to one of the best private schools in QLD. Most of my schooling was me giving my teachers and pupils cultural awareness training, its still like that to this day. Education is the most important thing, I believe it with everything I have. I argue with blckfellas all the time about how important a “white’ education is. Unfortunately its not easy to balance the both, when you have a connection and responsibility to country its hard to uphold that responsibility when your school is so far away.

      The comments on here are harsh and backward. Most people are fed up with the situation but so am I. I don’t like seeing people drug and alcohol dependant (thats black, white whatever), but I can’t change them. All I can do is be a role model for the next generations of my family. There are many problems within OUR country, but until we as a nation of many start to work on them TOGETHER we are going to get no where. I think that is what Richard was getting at. There are many positive things about Indigenous people and there are many positive about non Indigenous people.

      Oh and by the way, I don’t take handouts from the government. I have worked and supported myself since leaving school. Many of my non indigenous friends do take hand outs from the Gov, but this does not bother me like it does some of you people.

    • Ebony says:

      08:34am | 24/03/11

      If those of you who have taken the time to write hate-filled and disrespectful comments towards both Richard and Indigenous people had taken that time to do something better in your own communities (not just Indigenous but the one you frequent every day) our world would be a much better place.

      Instead you sit here typing, reiterating the same stereotypes that we’ve all heard before.

      Yes, not all Indigenous people are model citizens but that can be said about any race. Just because you have met a handful of negative people doesn’t mean that their race should be living in the conditions that they live in today.

      Kudos to Richard for taking the time to generate debate and get people thinking about these issues.

    • james milton says:

      09:22am | 24/03/11

      Disagreeing on a point of view is not hate.

      The word ‘hate’ gets thrown around way too much and gets in the way of having meaningful dialogue.

      I’m sure every single person posting on here wishes that Indigenous people led the same quality of life as the rest of the country. Nobody hates them, they just have different views on how to change the current situation.

      Everything conceivable has been tried, but nothing has worked. Shouting ‘hate’ every time someone disagrees with you doesn’t help meaningful dialogue.

    • Ebony says:

      09:49am | 24/03/11

      Hacking on Richard as a city slicker who only knows about the gourmet meal that is at the end of his nose is hateful James. Similarly, typecasting ALL Indigenous people as bludgers, alcoholics, violent people, “not worth it” may not be construed as you as being hateful but I wouldn’t say it’s a way or disagreeing either.

      In spite the fact that you want to engage in meaningful dialogue you engage with me on semantics when the real issues are left aside.

      To me Richard’s article demonstrates that ‘closing the gap’ is not just about closing a life expectancy gap but also about closing the gap between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australia.

    • Ivory says:

      10:18am | 24/03/11

      ‘Hate claims’ are the victim mentality similar to what we commonly see with feminists.  Both are treated with the same amount of respect.

      It’s this mentality which holds back the Aboriginal cause.

    • PJ says:

      10:25am | 24/03/11

      Ebony,

      What are the Aboriginal/Islander people doing about this issue (apart from jumping up and dwon and demanding white people do more)?

      As Rich points out, it is a two way street.

    • Ebony says:

      10:44am | 24/03/11

      “Ivory” - Although I don’t agree with you on everything I do believe that racism and lack of respect does exist on both sides of the fence and certainly is holding back the cause of reconciliation.

      PJ - Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people are very active in their communities in terms of endeavours aimed at closing the gap and promoting reconciliation. Do some googling of things happening in your community smile

    • Chris says:

      08:46am | 24/03/11

      The best thing for Aborigines would be to realise that there is no future for them in the modern world as long as they cling to their ridiculous mythology, tribal clannism and desert regionality. They need to become part of the world, instead of constantly reacting against it and mourning the loss of the old ways. They need to get out of the desert and, at least, into the bigger rural centres. They need to get empoyment of some kind. They need to get their kids to school and make sure they do their homework. They need to get off the grog.

    • Rose says:

      11:46am | 24/03/11

      This is exactly why there will be no Reconciliation. You are the problem, you and people like you who refuse to look at anything through anyone but your own’s eyes. Forced assimilation is why there are so many problems now. Aboriginal children removed from their homes, disconnected from their families and culture. The solution is to support Aboriginal people to reconcile their own culture with modern day Australia, we need to provide support to elders so they can restore a sense of self-worth in their people. We need to encourage Aboriginal people to engage in their culture and language so that they have a solid foundation from which they can work. We need to stop talking about Aboriginal people as a problem and start talking about them as valued members of our community. We need to first address the lack of trust and respect between white and black Australia, because if we can’t trust each other, we cannot go any further.

    • eddie says:

      12:52pm | 24/03/11

      Chris, -1,  why is aboriginal mythology ridiculous? please explain how it is any more ridiculous or any less believable than any other religious mythology, and why should they abandon it? In my humble opinion the sooner the Judeo/Chistian people abandon their belief in their creation myths and stop taking their fables (irrespective of whether they are christian, hebrew or muslim)  as the word of god, the sooner our whole species can start taking responsiblity for ourselves and our actions and move towards a much more enlightened and peaceful society. Attitudes like yours will, unfortunately, continue to keep us chained to the dark ages.
      2, “There is no future for them” - that basically sounds like advocating genocide to me. I was exactly what organisations such as the Aboriginal Protection Authority were saying while they were trying to basially wipe out the Aboriginals, by various means and for their own good, during the first half of the 20th century.
      3. Only a small percentage of the original aboriginal population were desert dwellers, most lived close to the coast until we came and took their land, we did drive some of them into the desert but we killed a lot more.

    • Fred says:

      02:31pm | 24/03/11

      @ eddie… thank you… just thank you

    • Chris says:

      11:41pm | 24/03/11

      Rose:
      “We need to encourage Aboriginal people to engage in their culture and language so that they have a solid foundation from which they can work.”
      How does engaging with a dead language and an almost-dead culture help them achieve anything? How is that a foundation from which they can work?
      English is the language that will provide them with a foundation. Education and a basic commitment to work
      will be their new culture. Sure, keep the old stories if you want—Rainbow Serpent, dreaming tracks, all that—but adopt a modern way of thinking.
      It should be easier than people think: most aborigines have little or no connection with their spirituality, anyway. Aboriginal kids in towns like Dubbo and Bourke are wearing Nike shoes and baseball caps, going to school, eating at McDonald’s, living in houses, playing football, wearing clothes…how is this connected with their culture in any way?
      Your line of thinking is what locks aborigines, forever, into a cycle of victimhood, dependence and hopelessness—a tear-in-the-eye view of the past, a past which the modern aborigine never knew and would never want to know. A past where there was virtually nothing.
      Great culture, that. Really worth preserving.

    • Rosie says:

      08:48am | 24/03/11

      Kevin Rudd Labor was riding high after his election win when he made the big apology to our indigenous people for the stolen generation. Rudd and Labor got the glory and will be remembered for the PM that said sorry but nearly 4 years later nothing much has changed. An apology that some of us didn’t agree with because of this very reason, the fact we didn’t have a solution to improving their lives and closing the gap.

      Some of us felt that the apology should have come after some achievement had occurred not apologise with promises to improve their lives which has not happened according to this article.

      It is so sad to read some of the comments here, to put the blame on the Aborigines, whose lives today had been influenced by those that have decided to settle here. It is our responsibility to close the gap and this can only begin to understand how we have influenced them over the years.

      It is not just money that is required, more understanding is just as important.

    • Fed Up says:

      08:51am | 24/03/11

      Sure thing Richard. Will do - just as soon as I stop hearing cries of “white c#nt” when I walk my kids to the shop, or when my 3 year old isn’t threatened with a cticket bat when she goes outside to play in a communal area, how about when I stop seeing people ripping apart their taxpayer funded public housing homes and literally defecating and throwing it at the walls. Welcome to life in a public housing estate.

      It goes both ways mate, how about for once we see that reflected in one of these articles instead of “anglo-saxon” Aussies MUST recognise and respect this, that, or the other of aboriginal culture. Oh I know why….because whoever wrote that would be a racist, right? wink

    • Josh says:

      09:45am | 24/03/11

      Vivid anecdotes…can you think beyond this to consider what has actually led to these behaviours?

      Culturally and spiritually to lose everything within generations? Come up against racist attitudes on a daily basis telling you you’re worthless and nothing but a societal leech? Experience mental health problems?

      Here are some statistics (Brown, ANZJMHN, Oct 2008)
      - Unemployment rate is 38%
      - Alcoholism is 11 times higher than for the total Australian population.
      - Homicide and violence is 11 times higher than non-indigenous.

      Can’t people see that this is not a cultural choice, this is a population crying out for help and to be understood before things can improve

    • Fed Up says:

      10:56am | 24/03/11

      Josh, I’ve thought beyond it. I’ve felt empathy for these people in the past. I’ve swallowed those same statistics and “facts” you’ve mentioned (and others), and assumed - as you do - that these are a justification for that sort of behaviour. But you know what? That’s precisely why Indigenous people who perpetrate the acts I’ve just described get away with their behaviour. Because they can beat their chests and say “someone neither you or I ever met took something away from someone you or I have never met”. I’m sorry for what happened to the people THAT IT HAPPENED TO. I am not sorry for those who use it as an excuse to terrify my child to the point that she is too scared to set foot out the front door. I am not sorry for people who face life with such a sense of entitlement that they feel compelled to demand money merely for existing. I am not sorry for any member of the mob who gathered outside my front door (the door of a very young single mother, completely alone and defenceless), and threatened to club myself and my children to death with baseball bats because my ex had looked at someone the wrong way when he dropped the kids off after an access visit. Literally just LOOKED at them the wrong way. I wonder why he did that? Could it have been because his little girl just about wets herself when it’s time to leave the house?

      You can waffle all you like about people having to struggle against issues such as mental health problems and overt racism….but you know what? I don’t consider a paedophile’s victim entitled to become a paedophile, I don’t consider a victim of theft entitled to become a thief. So I really don’t see how supposed victims of racism get to justify senseless and extreme violence simply by saying someone once called them a leech and told them to get a job.

      It is NOT a cultural choice, and it’s NOT a cry for understanding. It’s about individuals making individual choices, and then choosing to blame the victims of their bad behaviour by bringing up something that didn’t even happen to them personally. If I went to court and said I’d just beaten a child half to death because the English invaded my forefathers village in 1169 I’d get laughed straight out of it.

    • Rosie says:

      11:10am | 24/03/11

      Thank you Josh, you are so right!

      The Aborigines I lived amongst in Tennant Creek kept to themselves and if you acknowledged them when they said hello you were OK. I was never afraid of them in the big company house my husband and I lived in. They were proud of who they were and what I noticed was their love of the land and AFL.

      We all have our faults, lucky for us we have the opportunity to do something about it if we wish. Our aborgines don’t and need our help! If we don’t help who is there to help them?

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      01:45pm | 24/03/11

      @Josh - have you ever been subjected to the kind of things that FedUp is describing? Ever? I have & it’s terrifying. I have alot of Koorie mates, and they are all awesome people with great jobs & no chip on their shoulder. I have also lived in a place pretty similar to what FedUp is describing, so I can see both sides of the argument here.
      Your post is basically saying ‘Oh, it’s okay that they called your daughter a white c**t - because they’re alcoholism rates are 11 times higher than the rest of Australia’ this does nothing but reinforce the very ‘Us and them’ mentality that you are supposedly against..
      You think you are part of the solution, but you are part of the problem.

      They are not different from other Australians, you would not excuse that kind of behaviour if it was the white bogans dole bludgers down the street from you that threatened to smash your face in, would you? Why is it that bad behavior from Kooris is accepted as the whitefullas fault?

    • Josh says:

      05:10pm | 24/03/11

      @Fed Up
      Nobody should experience these things you describe, and sadly these actions are committed by members of every cultural and ethnic group. My purpose was to get you to think separately from the immediate acts and about how we have got to this situation. Often it is as a result of reasons that are not immediately obvious. Sadly unlike in Anglo Australians with a mental illness, Indigenous Australians are faced with a foreign health system that is working towards (but still a way off) being culturally sensitive and so many do not receive the treatment that they deserve as citizens of 21st century Australia…in a massive reason because of the trust issue- the crux of Richard’s article.
      Sadly, these are terrible things you describe and it must be indescribable to face these daily challenges. But, I urge you to look beyond the acts and see the inner workings of individuals who behave this way, whether Anglo or Aboriginal and realise that it is a culmination of many factors, not an inherent quest to be bad.

      @ LauraBobura - paraphrasing me as you chose to was inaccurate as you will see that I was definitely not condoning or excusing this behaviour by anyone…just providing a different point of view. And yes I continue to live in rural communities with high indigenous populations which is why I felt moved to comment. When I changed my outlook, it was much easier to change my prejudices. Hope this helps

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      06:30pm | 24/03/11

      @Josh - I understand how we got here. But how long before it’s acceptable to say that the Aboriginal people who behave this way should take responsibility for their actions? It’s not the fault of anglo aussies if you get drunk & bash your wife, it’s your fault, you are an adult & you’re responsible for your actions.

      I don’t think the way I paraphrased you was particularly inaccurate, but that is just my opinion.. ‘vivid anecdotes’ was all you said. Not ‘that is bad behaviour’ - the way that you explained away this poor behaviour with statistics & claims of prejudice, claiming that fedup should look at the ‘big picture’, gave the impression that you were saying, ‘the reason that these people wanted to smash your face in, is because of the following statistics’... which is a load of BS. I’m not sure if that was your intention, but no matter.

      My family is Irish, if I was an alcoholic who beat my kids, how far do you think I’d get with DOCS if I said that it was the Brits fault for oppressing my people for hundreds of years? What do you think that the general population would tell me?

      I’m not prejudiced against aboriginals, I like to think I accept people on their individual merits. Like I said, I have a lot of aboriginal friends who are fantastic.
      I am merely trying to point out the truth, that not holding the wider Aboriginal community to account for their failure in controlling & stamping out behaviour this behaviour within their own community like this does nothing to help anybody.

      What you don’t seem to understand, is that explaining away all the issues that happen within Aboriginal communities as a product of the past creates a situation where the individuals who commit these acts feel like they don’t have to take responsibility for their actions.

      But I’m probably just a racist right?

    • Josh says:

      08:16pm | 24/03/11

      @LauraBoBaura

      Your point: “that not holding the wider Aboriginal community to account for their failure in controlling & stamping out behaviour this behaviour within their own community like this does nothing to help anybody.”

      My point: Changing individual perspectives to acknowledge that there is a bigger picture behind peoples actions can alter prejudices for the better. Open mindedness is a wonderful, harmonising thing and is a platform for meaningful progress.

      Both valid viewpoints that can coexist happily together. Thanks!

    • Daniel says:

      08:54am | 24/03/11

      Umm Erick, indigenous Australians are educated into non indigenous culture it’s been continually rammed down their throats 24/7 for over 200 years. Furthermore your reference to ‘stone age culture’ only underlines Richard’s point. The idea that indigenous culture is some static snapshot of life 60000 years ago is as naive as it is insulting and points to the gap in education and understanding.

    • Erick says:

      11:48am | 24/03/11

      Umm, Daniel, indigenous culture *is* stone age culture. Stone age culture is a culture where the most advanced technology consists of stone tools.

      You should try to educate yourself before you attempt to correct others.

    • Fred says:

      02:35pm | 24/03/11

      @ Erick - way to not respond to the being-taught-non indigenous-culture comment… because you’re wrong

    • Seanr says:

      09:00am | 24/03/11

      “oldest living culture” – always found that statement quite curious, seems to reflect an idealised notion rather than anything accurate. Made me think of a couple of points:

      Oldest unchanged culture might be more accurate (however see below) and if so why is this necessarily a good thing?

      If we all migrated from Africa, wouldn’t that make cultures like the Bushmen in Africa older?

      How many Aboriginals live a traditional lifestyle now, I would say not many and wouldn’t that mean that the ‘culture’ has changed. Therefore isn’t it just like any other culture eg Egyptians have been in Egypt for thousands of years in one form or another.

      More than happy to be corrected on these points, I’ve just always found that statement curious.

    • Sir Ronald Bradnam says:

      09:06am | 24/03/11

      The only way to change the gap is to start with education and then it will take several generations. You pay someone to sit down then they will sit down, welfare needs to be rethought as does the education starting with the children and no more throwing our hands in the air and saying it is to hard.
      16 billion spent on a stimulis package for schools, private schools getting up to 6 million to build a new school hall and yet schools in some indigenous schools still have dirt floors. I would love to see poiliticians kids have to go to the poorest school that the government provides for the community, then watch as things improve in a hurry.

    • DEN says:

      09:10am | 24/03/11

      cant be bothered, same old same,” ISN’T IT TIME” ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, how much more do us whites have to say ” SORRY ” hand out welfare, bend backwards to house, educate, and then be told we ” WHITES ” are racist. DON’T GET ME WRONG - THERE ARE GOOD AND BAD IN ALL SOCIETIES - BUT HOW MUCH MORE DO WE WE HAVE TO DO ? after all LIFE IS WHAT YOU MAKE IT.

    • John A Neve says:

      09:11am | 24/03/11

      This whole article is based on a lie. We are not talking about Aborigines here, we are talking about Australians of mixed blood.
      There are only about 200K true Aborigines in the whole country.
      Most of the discontent springs from those of mixed blood, they feel the world owes them.
      It is bad some 200 year later to read that it is sad ‘to put the blame on Aborigines, whose live today had been induenced by those that have decided to settle here”.
      There is no Aboriginal alive who is affected by what took place 200 years ago. For the most part, most Australians were borne here, not many people live for 200 years.
      The term “original owners” is a lie, if you truly believe this than Adam & Eve are the “origanl owners” .
      If this land is owned? It is owned by Australians and at the rate we are selling it, we wont own it for much longer.

    • Fred says:

      02:58pm | 24/03/11

      You cannot say “There is no Aboriginal alive who is affected by what took place 200 years ago.” Partially because what took place 200 years ago, to some extent was taking place 40 years ago.  Remember? No, didn’t think so.  You have a convenient memory of this country’s history.

    • John A Neve says:

      04:35pm | 24/03/11

      Fred,
      Please explain, I’ve read your post twice and it still makes no sense. Just what are you trying to say?

    • fred says:

      05:11pm | 24/03/11

      John A Neve,

      I am saying that in the 1970’s they were still forcibly removing children from their parents and families, it’s not like 200 years ago everyone just decided to get along.  It happened, comparatively, pretty recently. So people today can definitely say they are in fact affected.

      Also your comment about Adam and eve - haa… what do you think atheists believe?

    • John A Neve says:

      07:26pm | 24/03/11

      Fred,
      Have you read what I posted?
      Just what has 40 years ago got to do with white settlement?
      Tell us Fred, are we talking about Aborigines or Australains of mixed blood?

    • iansand says:

      07:45pm | 24/03/11

      John A Neve - What does “blood” have to do with anything when we can, very easily, use Aboriginality, however you care to define it, to identify the Australians most in need of assistance.

    • John A Neve says:

      09:36pm | 24/03/11

      Iansand,
      Surely you cannot help any one until you define who you are helping and why. Simple really, so how do you define “Aboriginality”?

    • fred says:

      09:45pm | 24/03/11

      John A Neve

      Do you not relate the bad policies from then back to white settlement? Do you think everything got better after settlement and then for some reason started take children away.  I don’t think it’s that far of a stretch.

      And wow.  You do realise that you can be both Aboriginal and Australian.  Because one is a race and one is a nationality?  I won’t even go into how offensive some people would find your ‘mixed blood’ talk but it still makes them Aboriginal and something else, it’s not like that something else cancels out the Aboriginal in them…??

    • John A Neve says:

      06:51am | 25/03/11

      Fred,

      Sorry to say you are irrational about this issue. To talk of mixed blood is to talk fact. It is normal for a person to take either the naionality of their father or the country they are born in.

      If you are born in Australia you are by definition Australian. To the best of my knowledge this land mass did not have a name prior to the one it has now? Added to which there was no nation lving here?
      What we had at best was a number of tribes.

      No I don’t blame white settlers for what took place “40 years ago” any more than I blame us for what took place back then. Your argument has more holes in it than a sieve.

    • Fred says:

      10:56am | 25/03/11

      John A Neve

      Ah how disappointed I am that my first thought of being able to converse with you has now turned into the realisation that we might as well be speaking different languages.

      I don’t blame you for not realising that ‘mixed blood’ is offensive to some people, but let me explain why.  The children that were taken away from their parents were ‘mixed blood’.  This is still a bit of a sore spot for some people.  Not everyone, just some.  If you don’t understand this… it doesn’t really matter, but I thought it might help.

      I didn’t ask if you blamed the white settlers, I asked if you thought they were related.  I don’t blame the white settlers, but I do see a connection between the two.  I’m not trying to say that YOU should see the same connection, I was genuinely interested if you saw it, but I guess you’ve answered that question. 

      And I’m not quite sure what to make of your second paragraph. Are you trying to tell me that you cannot be both Aboriginal and Australian? You’re saying that if you’re born here, you’re Australian.  True.  But then you go on to say that prior to colonisation it wasn’t called ‘Australia’ - so what I am taking that to mean is - if you were born then, you are not Australian?  Do you think that is the same for all countries that have changed names over time?

      Because I assure you, each tribe had a name for this place. Just because you weren’t aware of that, doesn’t mean it didn’t exist.

    • Zaf says:

      09:25am | 24/03/11

      A vexed issue.  It’s madness to keep doing the same thing and expect a different result - but let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

      Imho the least the rest of Australia owes Aboriginal people (and in fact any group within the population) is some honesty.

      specifically: can Australia afford to maintain rural and regional community services at the same level it maintains urban services?  Which ones yes, which ones no?  When no, then at what level?  What’s the rationale?

      If people have information they can make rational choices.

      And note:

      1 Most Aboriginal people, like most Australians, are urban not rural.

      2 It makes sense to compare (if we must) social indicators of Aborignal and non-Aboriginal people of the same economic class. (So in the cities, urban working class.)  Adding middle and upper class Australians to get the white average outcomes for the purpose of comparison with Aboriginal people’s outcomes doesn’t really tell you anything about disadvantage based on ethnicity because it systemically avoids measuing the disadvantage due to economic class.

    • Sarah says:

      09:26am | 24/03/11

      Closing the gap? I understand there are health issues and the statistics are not good on that, but they’re generally not that great for anyone living in a remote area, black or white. Instead of focusing on this so-called gap, because that’s part of the problem, why doesn’t everyone just get treated in exactly the same way? Good or bad, I think the only way to get rid of these gaps is to provide the same service for everyone regardless of skin colour or heritage.

    • Josh says:

      09:28am | 24/03/11

      It is uplifting to have such an article to reignite our passion for these issues, issues that take far more than the welfare support and political action as so well noted by respondents…perhaps it is the backward, racist and damaging attitudes held by ‘good Aussies’ like Jack, Skippy and Erick, so eloquently demonstrated in this thread, that need to change before progress can truly be reached?

    • Arnold says:

      09:28am | 24/03/11

      As a person of aboriginal descent, who has managed to drag himself through uni and then post grad studies, I feel fairly confident in saying that the current plight of indigenous Australians can be blamed on “white” people…. and black people. 

      Firstly, there is no denying that the slaughter, rape and torture imposed on indigenous people has contributed to the poor living conditions many aborigines find themselves in today.  The theft of land by the Crown back in the 1800s was, and still is, an outrage today.

      To respond to this, the governments of today (both Labor and Liberal) have made some real attempts to reconcile the issues identified by the author, which unfortunately have had no real impact on aboriginal living standards.  So, the question is, whose fault is this? 

      The answer is simple, the fault lies with aboriginal elders and governing bodies run by indigenous people wasting millions upon millions of dollars and resources, who fail to show a positive example to their kin or provide the support needed to help break the poverty cycle (I mean really, why did ATSIC devote millions of dollars and man hours fighting for an “apology”, when there are real issues facing aboriginals today that they could have used those resources to help make a real difference, rather than the symbolic gesture of an apology).  However, in saying this, life can be a vicious circle, and these poor souls grew up watching their elders ruin their lives with grog and other drugs, and subsequently this is what they learned to do, which then flows on to their children, and then on to their children, etc, etc.  Please note though, that this phenomenon is not only limited to indigenous culture.

      So, what can be done to help close the gap?  Unfortunately, I have NFI, other than to argue the value of education.  I actually agree with the intervention imposed by the previous Liberal government, as I believe anything that can be done to help break the poverty cycle and enforce parents to educate their children is a great thing (I would argue though that this measure should be extended to “white” families as well who neglect their children).  An educated person is more likely to stay on track, form their own opinions, keep an adequate eye over their own health (though after the recent flood, my girlfriend did have to force me to stay at the hospital after getting an infection through a cut on my finger, which could have had serious ramifications if left untreated, so maybe this point isn’t valid after all).  An educated person is also more likely to be an ambitious person, as they realise the true value of wealth and prosperity (not specifically financial, but also spiritual wealth and self esteem) and look to improve their lot and their family’s lot as well.  I believe this to be the only way to break the cycle as the next generation is taught the true value of education from someone that believes it and has lived it.

      PS.  For those arguing that blacks get more government benefits than whites, I can honestly respond with “Whaaat”?  I didn’t receive anything whilst at school or uni that my white mates didn’t also receive, so if those benefits are out there, I am PISSED that I didn’t get them.  I mean I cop abuse as though I got them, so surely I should get a benefit for that abuse.  Sure, the names of government benefits were different when I was accessing them, but the pay rates were the same.  Besides, how much do you think the land was worth that was stolen by the Crown/Settlors?  Lets say the government was to decide tomorrow to compensate the remaining family members of each tribe around the nation for this land, what do you think that would be worth in today’s dollars?  Remember, the Wiradjuri tribe alone (my tribe) controlled land from the Blue Mountains near Sydney right down to the Victorian border at Albury.  Much of this area is titled as Australia’s Food Bowl and accordingly is very valuable land.  I mean, if you want to abolish aboriginal benefits, just compensate us for the land taken and we will be more than happy to switch from “Abstudy” to “Austudy” and then get paid…. the same.

      Lastly, those arguing that the government of today shouldn’t be concerned with the atrocities of past governments, I refer you to James Hardie.  James Hardie is required to pay compensation to asbestos victims still today despite no longer using asbestos products, so why does society hold a listed company to a higher standard than the government?  So yes, compensation is owed to the ancestors of those exterminated/forcibly moved from their lands, etc, unless you believe the surviving victims of asbestos victims also deserve nothing from James Hardie, which is absurd.

    • Emily says:

      10:03am | 24/03/11

      Thanks for your contribution Arnold. Love it.

      Your point about applying the same standards to non-indigenous parents is worth highlighting. Racists are very quick to point the finger at, to quote scubasteve “violent, impoverished” Indigenous communities, saying that children shouldn’t be born into them (ahem, Stolen Generation apologist much, scubasteve?) yet if the same were proposed for “white” families there would be outrage.

      The Punch reeks of Dominant Privilege, and unfortunatly it’s very hard to argue with people who simply don’t get it.

    • John A Neve says:

      10:31am | 24/03/11

      Arnold,
      I am sorry to say you have succumbed to the lie. Sadly as a Australian of mixed blood, you are one of the very people of whom I speak.
      There was “no theft of land” as there was no ownership. To own some- thing you have to buy it or have it given to you.

      What we have here Arnold, is two groups of people who won’t or can’t move on, they are living in the past.

    • PJ says:

      10:32am | 24/03/11

      I hope you are doing a lot of work in the Aboriginal/Islander communities Emily.

    • Arnold says:

      11:23am | 24/03/11

      John, you have made this argument regarding ownership before, and the only lie is the one you repeat.  Aboriginals did have a concept of ownership, hence the different tribes claiming rights over different areas of land (you know, the land where our ancestors resided for tens of thousands of years).  They just didn’t formalise it with paperwork.  I guess you can argue that indigenous people “stole” the land 60,000 years ago when they island hopped their way here, but where is the proof and the surviving inhabitants to make their claim?  I am happy to hear your side of the argument on this matter.

      You are correct about me being of mixed blood.  Unfortunately there are no full bloods left in the Wiradjuri tribe, thanks to the rape and murder of my ancestors, so I really don’t see your point, unless it is to point out the injustices of the past that were heaped upon indigenous communities by white folks (not just in Australia).  There are still full bloods left in other tribes, but they too are sadly dwindling in number.  And since I copped racism and abuse my entire life from white folk for being of aboriginal heritage, you will have to forgive me for not identifying with the other components of my genetics.  So if its ok with you, I will continue to identify as, and be proud, to call myself aboriginal (actually to be honest, I don’t care if its ok with you or not, I will continue to do so). 

      Also on ownership as defined by you, who did the Crown/Settlors pay for the land they occupied/gave away?  Or if they didn’t buy it, who gave it to them?

      I do agree that moving on is in everyone’s best interest.  Unfortunately, it isn’t as easy as simply making that bold statement.  There are a multitude of issues that must be addressed before any real progress will be made, along with many hurts that have to heal.  After all, my parents both attended school whilst the White Australia policy was still in place, so it’s not exactly ancient history just yet. 

      Emily, thanks for the encouragement.  I too have found some of the comments here disgraceful.  I have chosen not to respond to those people though, as it really is pointless since they have no desire to sympathise for a culture that has been driven to poverty through the actions of a “cultured and sophisticated” civilisation.

    • Erick says:

      11:51am | 24/03/11

      “I believe anything that can be done to help break the poverty cycle and enforce parents to educate their children is a great thing (I would argue though that this measure should be extended to “white” families as well who neglect their children).”

      Well said indeed!

    • Emily says:

      11:59am | 24/03/11

      Hi @PJ et al

      I don’t do a lot of work in indigenous communities; not at all. In my defense though, I’m not making assertions about indigenous people then putting that out there for public commentary. I am making assertions about racists, and people exercising their dominant privilege, who have put there comments here for discussion. Maybe it takes one to know one.  In this case I hope not (a racist that it, I recognise my own white, middle-class, caucasian, able-bodied privilege), but your comment made me pause and reflect, so thanks.

      @Arnold - sound advice! Keep up the good work. smile

      A reprint of a comment I’m making to earlier comments (!):

      I have been very sarcastic, and upon reflection aggressive towards individuals, in the majority of my comments. I should have been more sensible and waited until I felt less angry about the blatant racism that I’m reading here.

      I do (sincerely) apologise that my tone hasn’t lifted the conversation very much; I can do better. I think in the meantime though I’m going to absent myself from further reading - it’s way too depressing.

    • John A Neve says:

      12:12pm | 24/03/11

      Arnold,
      Liked your post and I like your reply. You are correct, this is one of my hobby horses. While this is off topic, I don’t believe any one should own land, or water, air or any thing that is natural. We should of course pay for transport, processing etc.

      Back to topic; concept of ownership and ownership are surely two different things? I am only guessing here but this is a large country and I’d suggest there were thousands of miles that never felt a human foot prior to white settlement. Sorry, I do not accept ownership.

      As to mixed blood and I doubt many have blood as mixed as mine. How can those of certain blood mixes claim to be disadvantaged? All children can go to school. Social services treat all the same, don’t they? Hospitals aren’t racist, are they?

      I repeat Arnold, people need to move on and that appears to include you.

    • rats says:

      12:33pm | 24/03/11

      I actually think that your idea of intervention in white communities that are failing their children is an excellent one, but moving on.
      I know you said you have “NFI” on how to actually navigate a realistic close the gap scenario.. neither do I.. but surely there must be a way. I’m curious to ask what Aboriginal people actually want to happen. i mean in their ideal world, taking into account the current makup of the Australian population, what would be their ideal resolution? The only answer to that question that i’ve ever been given has generally been “kick the whites out”. Since that is pretty much not gonna happen, does anyone have a second preference…? (i’m not trying to be a pain, I genuinely weant to know - what do they actually WANT? What can we do at this point in time to make things better? )

    • Wayne Kerr says:

      01:01pm | 24/03/11

      I think we could go on for quite a while about who owned what before the “white man” came to these shores. However, look at European history and see how much land swapped hands over the hundreds of years.  “White Man” culture and know-how was stronger than the then indigenous and it became a “White Man’s” country.  For better or for worse thats the way it is.  It will not change no matter how hard you wish.  As with any civilisation or species, you change and adapt to your circumstances and you will continue to exist.  Go against those changes and your civilisation or species will eventually disappear.  It may not be a nice thing to say but that is reality. My achieving a bettr understanding of Aboriginal culture would be a wonderful thing but its not going to change anything unfortunately.

    • Arnold says:

      03:16pm | 24/03/11

      Rats,
      I cannot speak for the entire aboriginal community, but I personally would like nothing more than to see the gap between indigenous and non-indigenous people close.  I certainly would not advocate kicking the whites out, as you put it.  Societies evolve, and if it wasn’t the British who “discovered” the land, it would have been someone else, and who is to know if they would have treated the aborigines any better or worse than the British (by the way, not all settlers were horrible people, some understood what effect they were having on the original inhabitants and looked after them very well - right up to the 1960’s as @Gran below points out). 

      So, to answer your question, I would like nothing more than for the gap to close.  Nothing more, nothing less. 

      I guess that can start with respect and understanding from the general community regarding the issues of the past, as well as having strong role models from their own communities taking a leadership role and ensuring that children have someone to look up to, and that they understand the importance of education in helping themselves and their families.  Unfortunately, judging by the tone of a lot of posters here, respect and understanding is still a long way off, and as long as elders continue to espouse racism (the NT intervention), rather than working with the system to improve living standards, strong role models ready to make unpopular decisions are also a long way off.

      Wayne,
      I agree with you that tracing land ownerships back through the timeline would be a pointless exercise.  No benefits will be obtained by doing this (much like spending millions of dollars and years of lobbying for an apology that in essence provided no tangible benefits to downtrodden people), and the country’s economy would be thrown into turmoil were any action to be taken after such an exercise. 

      However, you cannot analyse the problems of today’s indigenous people without looking at history.  It is a fact that many aborigines were murdered, raped, stolen (watch the abuse fly in now), had land taken, etc.  Many of these crimes went unpunished (note many, not all).  Aboriginal families are extremely close, and to this day feuds between families can last for much longer than they should (generations), and as such, the anger at the “man” is still held by many descendants today for the atrocities of the past.  Added to this is the fact that aborigines felt an extremely strong, spiritual connection with the land they occupied, which was ripped away from them and pretending that it doesn’t mean anything today does not help anybody cross any bridges (except for those that dismiss this issue entirely anyway).

      In my opinion, this anger will continue for as long as non-indigenous people continue to believe that blacks are no hopers deserving of nothing that are looking to just sponge off the system, and therefore not deserving of any respect or sympathy.  Whilst there definitely are some that do play the system (I have family members that do it actually and it pisses me off too), there are also lots of whites that bludge off the government as well, so it is not a race-specific issue. 

      John,
      Telling people to just move on is extremely disrespectful.  Who are you to tell when someone should be ready to forget the past?  My grandfather is in his 70’s and can still remember vividly the injustices committed against him by racists.  Are you suggesting that it never happened, and therefore should not be brought up in the public arena ever again?  Or that he should just “walk it off” and forget about it?  It is that disrepect and failure to even attempt to understand the issues that I am talking about.

    • John A Neve says:

      04:49pm | 24/03/11

      Arnold,

      I believe I have a very fair understanding of the situation. What has taken place in Australia, has taken place in many countries over many decades.

      There are countries today that did not exist when I went to school and countries that did, don’t any longer. Just look at what we now know as the middle east.

      Continually looking back won’t fix anything Arnold, surely you must realize that?
      What was is gone, we live in the now and all debate like this does is to open old wounds. I repeat move on, you’ll be a lot happier.

    • fred says:

      05:17pm | 24/03/11

      Hey guys,

      the same standards are applied to non-indigenous parents - I can’t be bothered to reference it for you but I’m pretty sure if you checked out either centrelink or fahcsia’s website it would tell you.  Of course the percentage of non-indigenous is much lower than indigenous, but it is applied to both.

    • Roy says:

      09:53pm | 24/03/11

      Arnold, No special benefits?
      When I went to school, if you were a “townie” and used the local bus, rather than walk, whites paid blacks didn’t.
      It was common knowledge that black school kids got paid a govt alowance, (they called it pay) whites didn’t.
      Whites paid to go on general school camp, while blacks went to an extra camp that whites could not go to (Rubicon?) with mini bikes, ponies etc (got photo’s in my school yearbook to prove it).
      I paid 17% interest on my home loan during the late 80’s, while a neighbour paid 3% because she was of aboriginal descent (grandmother)  although she looked white to me.
      I agree with your comments regarding education as being the key to breaking the alcohol/poverty cycle, and welfare should paid in food and rent, not cash for people with troubles no matter what their race.

    • AdamC says:

      09:48am | 24/03/11

      I find those trust figures cited here quite extraordinary. However, I suppose that indigenous Australia has become so defined by disadvantage and dysfunction that individual aborigines are dehumanised in the eyes of wider Australia (and their own). They are expected to follow the usual script and fail, preferably by becoming a hopeless, unemployed substance abuse statistic dependent on evil ‘Mr Whitey’ (aka Centrelink) for support and looking forward to an early death.

      The ‘Intervention’ at least challenged the cult of low expectations around indigenous policy, but it fell back on the same paternalistic tools of coercion and humiliation. As Abbott says, the Intervention needs to both be expanded and refined. Elsewhere, however, the same policy settings of managing perpetual failure continue, coupled with the usual symbolic trivialities and PC cultural blandishments. 

      I wouldn’t claim to have all the answers. But, to my mind, we can see the same vices and ills throughout Australian society that we see in concentrated microcosm in indigenous communities. Despite incessant calls for more consent and consultation - often code for merely doing nothing - the fact is that aborigines are individuls like you and I. And resolving their problems of addiction, unemployment or disadvantage is no different to resolving anyone else’s.

    • Comedian says:

      10:09am | 24/03/11

      Let’s face if people want help they will get it but at the end of the day, it’s up them to help themselves. I understand and acknowledge what the white Australia policy did to the Aboriginals but that was the past. Until they stop whingeing and look to the future we will never fix the problems. God know I think the Government has put enough money into this (billions) another culture with that kind of money given to them would have done wonders. People make choices in theirs lives on what to do how to live. I can go on forever but I won’t and I understand people will attack me for my statement but to them I say this “REALLY THINK ABOUT IT”…and pull your head out

    • Markus says:

      10:30am | 24/03/11

      Just can’t win, can we?
      Sitting back and doing nothing receives cries of being inhuman and unsympathetic, while any attempts to intervene to help resolve issues receives cries of the patriarchal regime oppressing their culture.

      Some nice idealism in this article, but it is all pie in the sky stuff.
      It is the Aboriginal people in remote areas that are the ones with the lower life expectancy and education rates, and higher child mortality rates.
      The vast majority of non-indigenous Australians will never meet these people in their lifetime, so how exactly is it that they are supposed to build this bridge of trust with them?

    • Luke Richmond says:

      10:35am | 24/03/11

      Hearing some of the mindless ramble being presented here only supports Richard’s article.
      Spot on comparing the situation to apartheid in South Africa. I’ve seen the segregation that occurs first hand on far too many occasions based simply on the colour of someone’s skin. People complain that ‘these people’ should just try and assimilate to the ‘white fella’ society, but white people don’t trust them or allow them that opportunity!
      There’s a road house not further than 100km from a remote community I work closely with in Central Australia and there are separate bathrooms for Indigenous and non-Indigenous people. There’s a restaurant, but only white people are allowed to access it to eat. This is happening NOW and IN AUSTRALIA! And it’s not hidden. The managers make their opinions on Indigenous people widely known.
      We talk about Indigenous people needing to access mainstream services and ‘assimilate’, but they can’t even get a meal up the road at the nearest road house because they’re black!
      You may see this as ‘too simplistic’ to describe the situation, but it encapsulates it perfectly on a microcosm level. The managers complain that all Indigenous people do is cause trouble at their road house, and they should assimilate to become a part of mainstream society so they behav ‘better’, yet won’t let them eat at their shop. What a contradiction??!! And then we wonder why Indigenous Australians don’t trust us?
      Pathetic.

    • James1 says:

      11:12am | 24/03/11

      “The managers complain that all Indigenous people do is cause trouble at their road house, and they should assimilate to become a part of mainstream society so they behav ‘better’, yet won’t let them eat at their shop. What a contradiction??!!”

      That is not a contradiction.  It is cause and effect.

    • Sam says:

      11:14am | 24/03/11

      Thank you Luke for this real life example of what is actually going on and I don’t think it is simplistic at all but in fact a sad inditement of the racism that still clearly exists out there. As Richard stated we really do need to open our hearts, we ALL need to acknowledge the role we have played in creating the distrust and dis-ease between the first Australians and our modern culture.  The level of defensiveness conveyed in the above comments by what I presume are mainly what Australians is really sad to see and reveals the narcissistic nature of our society in which the very real disadvantage faced by indigenous Australians (especially the kids) is turned into a hateful bitch session by privileged white australians.

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      01:55pm | 24/03/11

      I’m with James on this one. Luke - did you ask the roadhouse owners WHY there was black & white restrooms?
      Or did you just look down your nose at him through your rose coloured glasses. Did you ask him WHY he had such racist views against Kooris?

      Such a harsh response must have been a result of some pretty bad behavior one would think… or is it racist to mention that?

    • James1 says:

      03:12pm | 24/03/11

      Its a hard one, isn’t it Laura?

      I thought I was going out on a limb calling the owner’s policy a reaction to events, but it got published despite my expectations.  Maybe we are moving forward (sorry) in this debate after all.

    • mary monica roche says:

      10:56am | 24/03/11

      Are long life, long education, long worklife, european american lifestyles, and high wages really desirable outcomes?

    • The same broken record for 50 years says:

      01:31pm | 24/03/11

      You are perfectly correct and we should be supportive of Aborigines who wish to live a more traditional self reliant lifestyle. However this needs to be done carefully without promoting ideas that erode self reliance and dignity. If someone asked me to devise a genocide plan for a particular race it would pretty much look like the way we currently “help” aborigines. The more of this help we give the more we erode self reliance and widen the gap

    • HallofMirrors says:

      11:30am | 24/03/11

      You can’t read Richard’s words and not reflect. This is what our Aussie spirit should encompass - Close the Gap: start in your own head and beliefs and encourage others to do the same…

    • Aaron Tait says:

      11:56am | 24/03/11

      Thanks Richard. A positive piece about a challenge most Australians like to forget about. 

      “To be truly radical is to make hope possible rather than despair convincing”
      Raymond Williams

    • Gran says:

      11:59am | 24/03/11

      Up untill the mid 60’s aboriginal stockmen worked the cattle stations in QLD and NT,the wives were housekeepers, cooks and nannys,the children were educated with the station owners children by a governess,most being 3rd or 4th generation stockman,their parents grandparents and great grand parents still lived on the station and being taken care of by the station owner some familys were 20 people strong ,they were given sugar ,flour, meat clothing and a small wage,when babies were due the station owners wife would go to town with the mum and stay in the cwa hostel with her untill the baby was born and they could return to the station,they were happy healthy grog free people,then the do gooders stepped in demanding full wages for a full days work,none of these do gooders stepped foot out of the ciyt limits and knew what was best for these people,the station owners couldn’t afford to keep whole familys and pay wages as well and had to let them go,so the goverment and churchs started up missions,and the gold diggers and grog truck move in on them,the rest is history,where are the do gooders now,screaming there isn’t enough being do to help these people and let the freeloading boat people in so the can drain the taxpayer instead of fixing the problems we have here already

    • Rossco says:

      12:14pm | 24/03/11

      Sometimes I wish the white man never came to Australia and just left the Aborigines to themselves. Would have solved a bunch of problems.

      I wonder in 1,000 years will Australia still be down this same sorry path?

    • Kiah says:

      12:22pm | 24/03/11

      I think that this is all getting a little too selfish and ignoring the facts of the matter. This is not about finger pointing, racial slurs or conforming to the general stereotypes of Black or White Australians.

      It’s not an issue of comparing Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians, it is the fact that here in Australia we have fourth world country conditions.

      That our fellow Australians,  are suffering because they are a part of one of the biggest minority groups in Australia which the privileged history of Australia has forced them into.

      It seems that a lot of people are offended at the whole idea - why?
      It’s people’s health we are talking about, the fact that being born Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander already sets you behind the privileged society, in criminal justice, cultural safety in society, the finance world, education and importantly today - health and life expectancy.

      I think Rich has hit the nail right on the head.

      It’s time to open your eyes and hearts and make an effort to make a real change. Australia will never, ever be peaceful until we start looking at people for people and not the stereotype stuck on them.

      It’s not a race issue, it’s a people issue.

    • AdamC says:

      12:51pm | 24/03/11

      @Kiah, I agree that this is a ‘people issue’, but you sound more like a white-guilt enabler than part of the solution. Why setle for cosy victim narratives - aren’t solutions better? If the gap is really going to be closed, indigenous individuals need to understand that they can choose to change their own lives for the better. And, once they have done that, they can help better the circumstance of their own communities.

      At the moment, policies seem to focus on communities rather than individual people. That is, when they are not simply making excuses for dysfunction based on perceived culture or history. This is the wrong approach.

    • James1 says:

      01:38pm | 24/03/11

      I think it is even more fundamental than that AdamC.  Its is not so much that policies need to focus on individuals - these policies have been failing in the disadvantaged white community for decade, and there is no reason they would work in any other community.  It is the individuals that need to focus on the individuals, and their families.  Unless the parents aspire to a better life for themselves and their children, nothing will happen, and nothing will change.  A lack of personal responsibility is what causes a person to fall into addiction and welfare dependency, no matter what their race, and taking personal responsibility for themselves, their actions, and their future is the only thing that can fix it.

      It seems to me that this is the only solution that all government ignore.  I could be wrong, but I follow these issues and personal responsibility is never on the agenda.  Even Noel Pearson writes long op-eds that decry the lack of personal responsibility, which then turn around and say the government needs to fix this. 

      Finally, it is sad to say, the only thing the government can do that will force those subject to intergenerational welfare dependency to take responsibility for themselves is to cut back on the carrots, and wield a much bigger stick (and actually use it once in a while).  Perhaps that explains why it is not on the agenda.

    • AdamC says:

      04:13pm | 24/03/11

      @James1, I think we are in total agreement. The best thing governments can do to stop the cycle of despair and dependence is to stop funding it. But that won’t happen.

    • DJB says:

      12:22pm | 24/03/11

      As long as this remains an Australia vs. Aboriginal issue then it can never be anything but racist, on both sides. This is not a race issue but a humanity issue. How can we deny another human the right to basics of health and education that we demand for ourselves?

      We need to look after our entire population not just those living in upper-middle class. Sometimes that means the haves sharing with the have-nots.

      But we will never close ANY gap as long as people refuse to believe there is a gap - a gap is not a continuation of the range of possibilities, it is data totally out of the range of normal.

      If there is a common truth to all of your responses, it is that we don’t know how to fix this at a Government or monetary level. So how about we start at a humanitarian one and open our hearts and conversations for the betterment of this country that we are all blessed to share.

    • Bob says:

      12:26pm | 24/03/11

      Same old same old! I am sick and tired of hearing this same stuff over and over again. On TV we are bombarded with the guilt trips, for some reason I, my wife and my son are somehow to blame for the plight of SOME Aboriginals ? Why ? because we are white! I would find it very refreshing to actually see Aboriginals stand up and do something, stand up and say the sexual assaults on their women and children in the remote aboriginal communities is unacceptable, the substance abuse problem is unacceptable and the violence is unacceptable, why is it that because I am a white Australian then I must automatically feel some measure of guilt over the conditions that certain Aboriginals choose to live in, in their remote communities?

      I am sick and tired of hearing that an Aboriginal doesnt have the same educational chances that non aboriginals have. I live in a large regional town and every Indigenous member of our community has the same opportunity of an education as the other Australians, they can go to Prep, Primary , Secondary and Uni if they like, nothing is stopping them , but themselves.

      When you say “An Aboriginal girl is 32 per cent less likely to finish her high school education.”, Why is that ? Does the school run by white fellas force her to leave? Is there some education dept rule that makes sure Indigenous students must be forced out of school ?? Of course not, if a child does not finish school then the cause can be one of a million reasons, but for some reason we white people must feel guilty because for some reason Aboriginal Families are not ensuring their children go to school at the same rates as other children.

      Speaking of education I recently saw TV adverts claiming that Indigenous Australians have a much lower level of UNI Acceptence, now tell me if I am wrong but the students are accepted into UNI based of their educational scores from High School? Perhaps people should stop pointing the finger of blame at everyone else and maybe, just maybe, point that finger inwards.

      We all know that the stats mentioned in this article are heavily swayed by the conditions in the remote aboriginal communities. Aboriginals living in Cities and larger rural areas have exactley the same educational and health services available as everyone else. If aboriginals choose to live in rural communities then of course they will not have have the same services that larger centres have, and Governments throwing money hand over fist at these dysfunctional communities will never solve the problem.

      Its time the local indigenous leaders of these communities actually did something, helped their own people to help themselves instead of guilting the rest of the country. If the Aboriginal Culture is so old then maybe its time the Aboriginal People grew up and accepted the responsibility of their own destiny.

    • Bugsy says:

      02:55pm | 24/03/11

      Because they are people just like we are. If you have generations of people in your family who are depressed, lonely, treated like second class citizens and not worthy of anything more then it’s no wonder the kids don’t feel like going to school. If your mum is a drunk and your dad belts her up, if you have no money for things, if all the kids at school are white, your uncle is in jail and your only ‘friends’ are the kids down the road who sniff petrol what are you going to do? Do your homework and go to uni?

    • Lisa H. says:

      12:17am | 25/03/11

      Yeah! Break the cycle! Just like my sister-in-law did!!!

    • Greg says:

      12:43pm | 24/03/11

      An Aboriginal man is expected to live 11.5 years less than the Australian average.
      An Aboriginal baby is twice as likely to die before their first birthday.
      An Aboriginal girl is 32 per cent less likely to finish her high school education.

      So, is this meant to be just more anti-white, guilt propaganda?

      Maybe the more relevant question is:

      What was the Aboriginal male lifespan, the Aboriginal infant death rate, and the Aboriginal female secondary education completion rate before European settlement, and how does it compare to current statistics?

      I’m sure that all of the above statistics would have improved, but there is still no gratitude for all of the benefits of white civilisation.

      Just constant whining about victimhood, no personal responsibility for personal circumstances, and endless entitlement claims for handouts.

    • Gregg says:

      12:46pm | 24/03/11

      All the bias and fingerpointing aside in a lot of the comments, the difficulties for indigenous people to take up life in an indigenous society are well documented and have been for many decades.
      ” We can continue to recount these statistics like a politician with an overused campaign slogan, but until we realise that these are just the symptoms of the underlying trust gap, we will not make our desired impact of ‘closing the gap’. “

      Underlying trust is not so much about the general gap as the lifestyle gap for many and from killings and victimisation via the stolen ones and indigenous settlements with recent intervention, attempts to assimilate for most have failed abysmally and there are no easy answers and we should not even generalise on trust.

      In many cases there are probably more than a few of the 200+ tribes rather than nations that have been forced together into settlements and thus there has at times been conflict amongst indigenous peoples themselves, the recent situations in some NT and Queensland settlements and a group of 30 people from the Tanami track heading down to Adelaide being examples.
      Noel Pearson has been to the fore in acknowledging that indigenous peoples need to take the lead themselves in resolving their future, there being a lot to be said for personal responsibilities just as with non-indigenous and you look outside Australia and there are plenty of examples of non-indigenous conflicts amongst peoples of just one country, all be it occurring in some cases because of meddling by others.

      But if you visit some indigenous townships, seeing general stores akin to Fort Knox does not say too much for trust within a township and then you may have some non-indigenous people who also go out into the sticks so to speak because there may be a lucrative living to be made one way or another and not always in a way that will engender trust.
      It is not always going to be your usual law abiding citizen who is going to want to go and live out in some hot dry place far from nicer places with more to offer.

      There are some examples too of indigenous people not only integrating into general society but also making a good fist of retaining many of their culturual customs and teaching non-indigenous people of them, too few and often too far away from where most non-indigenous live.

      And yes mainstream indigenous lifestyle is a sad situation and it is never going to be resolved without input from indigenous people nor indigenous people accepting responsibility as indigenous like Noel Pearson can see, there also being little to be attained from a hollow Sorry and associated promises like that made by Rudd and even Twiggy Forrest re massive training.

      Is it not about time we took notice of the success stories and acknowledged that there might just be a massive problem with having large population indigenous settlements and then more so with having them in outlandishly far off the beaten track locations where benefit living is not just created but perpetrated and ugly habits may so easily develop and be contagious.
      The same could be said of some major city suburbs for non-indigenous though the opportunity for personal choice may be greater.

      Essentially, all of us, indigenous and non indigenous need to take responsibility for our own lives whilst we do have some responsibility for helping the indigenous people along, it should be no more so than other underpriviliged people.

    • Greg says:

      01:10pm | 24/03/11

      National close the gap day? The nonsense never ceases, which I suppose is to be expected given the number of politically progressive pimps exploiting the good nature of most Australian people.

      The most important gap to address is the one between their ears.

      And why is it that another 10,000 years seems to get added to “Aboriginal history” every decade? Is the length of time that it lay stagnated in the stone age supposed to make it better in some way?

      What exactly is so “genuinely amazing” about Aboriginal history? It produced no cohesive society, no towns, no buildings, no government, no economy, and no achievement. Didn’t even “discover” the wheel.

      And Aboriginal culture, such as it is, only seems to hold its people back. Why should this be celebrated?

    • Bob says:

      01:31pm | 24/03/11

      I couldnt agree more ! I remember when I was a lad being taught the aboriginal culture was approx 10 to 20,000 years old, then when my son went to school it was 40,000 years old, now its 60,000 years old, maybe by the time my grandchildren go to school it will be 100,000 years old ???

      And I also agree with the question “what is so genuinely amazing about Aboriginal History ?? I always hear about “Their Culture” we should be so proud of, can someone explain to me what this culture is thats so great? Their culture never changed over thousands of years ,  I see no growth or advancement at all.

      So I think it is a good question “Why should this be celebrated?”, what is it about Aboriginal Culture that is any different to say caveman culture?

    • James1 says:

      01:48pm | 24/03/11

      Bob and Greg,

      Those changing estimates are a result of new sites being found by anthropologists, which are dated as being from an earlier period than previous digs.  No sinister conspiracy, just the advancement of knowledge.

    • Bugsy says:

      02:48pm | 24/03/11

      Greg & Bob I feel sorry for you. It must be such a burden to be carrying around such an ignorant racist mind all day. How do you cope?

      Before the Romans the UK tribes were ‘neolothic’ too. Which brings me to the next point - what exactly is a ‘cave man’? Cro Magnon man? Homo Erectus? I believe Indigenous people are Homo Sapiens just like us, however their culture wasn’t adulterated by the Romans until 1788.

      Here’s something which we should be appreciative of - they knew this land and knew how to live in this land better than we ever will. The recent events (flood, fire, drought, cyclone) has only proven this.

    • Greg says:

      02:59pm | 24/03/11

      James1, you are just making stuff up.

      The truth is that there have been no new major anthropological discoveries in Australia since Mungo man in that late 1960s, and recent testing has reduced his age from 60,000 years to 40,000 years.

      Furthermore, DNA testing has shown that he is not even an ancestor of modern aboriginal people. An inconvenient fact for those of a certain political persuasion, which explains why the Keating government gave the Mungo Man remains to a local indigenous tribe back in 1992.

      Our equivalent of the American Kennewick Man.

      So the advancement of knowledge should be decreasing the length of aboriginal history, not increasing it.

    • James1 says:

      03:10pm | 24/03/11

      That depends what you mean by Aboriginal, Greg.  I take it to mean those who inhabited Australia before European settlement.  They have found cave paintings dated around 60-80 000 years.  You are right though, that these paintings are not of the same type of those of more modern Aborigines.

      My post was an answer to the question asked about why the length of time Australia has been inhabited keeps changing.  If you don’t like my answer, you can think whatever you like.  Doesn’t make my answer wrong though.

    • Greg says:

      11:48pm | 24/03/11

      James1, you are wrong, and a pathetic attempt to redefine Aborigines as including multiple, genetically unrelated humanoids just emphasises the point.

      I suppose you would also classify neanderthals and homo sapiens within the same group because they occupied the same land mass at different times in history? For that matter, why distinguish between Aboriginals and non-Aboriginals at all, if the differences are so irrelevent?

      Why not just redefine all of anthropology to suit your political preferences?

      The question asked was not “about why the length of time Australia has been inhabited keeps changing”, it was about why the alleged length of Aboriginal history keeps changing. Read my post again, it still says the same thing.

    • Greg says:

      12:09am | 25/03/11

      Actually Bugsy, the truth is that “UK tribes” were not “neolothic” before the Romans. They were not neolithic either. They were in the latter stages of the Iron Age, and the UK was not even in existance for more than 1000 years later.

      Furthermore, it wasn’t the Romans who brought civilisation to Australia in 1788.

      So much ignorance in just one post. I pity you, but at least you are not burdened with any post-primary school knowledge which would clearly strain your limited mental capacities.

      I can see why you can’t comprehend how other people cope, but don’t worry your empty little head about it.

      And what exactly do the natural disasters prove? I saw plenty of European Australians helping eachother and rebuilding, while the usual suspects were just demanding more handouts.

      That’s the truth. Deal with it.

    • Your name:Dashy says:

      08:22am | 25/03/11

      Greg before you go on rambling bout the gap in others heads maybe u should do something about the gap in yours and stop being so ignorant. it’s people like you and your man bob who drag down our society.

      I could say the sme about celebrating the european culture, why would we wanna celebrate a culture based on stealing land and killing anything that stands in their way. Or a culture in which the rich are the only true members of society and the poor and marginalized might as well be cattle. Yea big culture to be proud of, I a decendant of this European culture and I dishoned it long time ago buddy. so maybe it’s time for you to come out of the stonage and leave your white australia ideologies there and do us all a favor.

    • Steve says:

      01:13pm | 24/03/11

      Has anyone noticed that there is only one group who are trying to close the gap. It must be great living in Melbourne where your experience of Aboriginals is on the TV watching footy. Move Canberra to Darwin and Melbourne to Alice Springs and we will close the gap. Meanwhile many non aboriginal Australians who live amongst aboriginals and have tried to close the gap and promote reconcilliation are quietly giving up. It doesn’t matter what race you are you can get too much help which causes you to take even less resposnibility for yourself. This is more so when victim status is constantly reinforced. We must help our aboriginal brothers with targetted help that encourages self reliance. There are employers waiting to take on honest hardworking aboriginals which will help break the perpetuation of disadvantage.  For those who do not wish to join the larger western society then that should be acceptable indeed embraced by all of us. But it must be understood that such a choice involves a more traditional lifestyle of self reliance without the same Government services.Most of the people who live in the south east corner of Australia and who decide most federal governments do not have a very good understanding of this issue.

    • Bugsy says:

      01:32pm | 24/03/11

      We have a beautiful, original and unique culture in this country. That culture defines who we are as people. Whether we like it or not, it’s Aboriginal culture that 99% of tourists want to see when they come here. I find it bizarre how white Australia doesn’t embrace and acknowledge the beauty in Aboriginal culture. If you love this country, I find it amazing how you can’t appreciate the history and stories of things you find sacred - the Sydney Harbour, the Blue Mountains, the Grampians, the Brisbane river, the Moreton Bay islands. All of them were loved and ‘belonged’ to people way before white people ever knew about them.

      Our country has a black history in more than one way. I am a product of somewhere along the line (nobody is certain) my grandfather’s mother decided she wasn’t Aboriginal anymore and covered up her identity. I would love to know more about my relatives somewhere who may or may not be in the same position as me. I have a good job, a good home, a good family and I have my health. What happened to that side of the family? Nobody knows and we probably will never know.

      It’s easy to say ‘assimilate’ without leaving something behind… something really important. My husband is from Sri Lanka. He has assimilated 100% into our culture as a way of fitting in with us and as a result he can’t even remember the language he spoke until he was in his twenties, he can’t remember anything about his culture and as such our children will be also clueless. They have lost part of their unique identity thanks to assimilation.

      We have to be really careful with assimilation. You can say ‘lets close the gap’... like how? The only way you can do it in all honesty is to continue the old assimilation techniques used and abandoned long time ago and force them to live within ‘our’ culture (our health care, our education, our jobs, our homes, our system)

      Living in the purgatory world many Indigenous people are in today is just robbing them of the greatness in both theirs and ours. To embrace an Indigenous perspective on how they want to close the gap is the key. We can’t tell them how to do it. They need to be able to decide for themselves.

    • loxy says:

      01:46pm | 24/03/11

      What a pathetic article that is full of sensalionalist rubbish. Firstly, South Africa is a highly corrupt country so any stats they release can not be trusted. Secondly, you compare the level of trust between Indigenous and non-Indigenous in one country to the trust between South Africans as a whole to every other nationality across the world - hardly a fair comparison. I guarantee that if you had tested the same thing in South Africa i.e. trust between whites and blacks/coloureds the figures would be very different and worse than they are here! South Africa is the most racist country I’ve ever been to and has extremely significant problems that just can’t and shouldn’t be compared to what goes on here.

    • Rich Fleming says:

      02:29pm | 24/03/11

      Loxy - I would encourage you to read the reports, they use extremely similar processes to measure trust between racial groups. The Australian Barometer report was developed using the South African Barometer report’s framework.

    • loxy says:

      06:28pm | 24/03/11

      It doesn’t matter what the SA reports say, everything in that country is dodgy and corrupt! Please remember this is coming from a country that told it’s people to eat pumpkin seeds and shower after sex and you won’t get AIDS! I am married to a South African and have spent some time in the country and only someone who hasn’t been there and experienced what goes on there would be stupid enough to compare our country to South Africa. I’m not saying we don’t have a problem, we do let’s keep it in perspective and not use sensationalist claims to try and get a point across.

    • Bill V says:

      04:26pm | 25/03/11

      Oh loxy, such a passionate expert from your own simple and skewed experiences within South Africa.
      Perhaps you should not use your limited time there to generalise for all 40million of us…or perhaps you should not have spent your time there with such a bigot. For the rest of us South Africans, we have our problems but we are progressing and healing and learning to trust. The IJR is a non-governmental agency that uses statistical methods far beyond the realm of your understanding and their findings are transparent and much more believable than your paranoid suspicions. Open your mind and the prejudice may float off, realise that progress is being made whether you come with it or not

    • Daryl says:

      01:51pm | 24/03/11

      I just have a few questions over this article.

      My definition of reconciliation means two parties reconciling their differences. But this article says absolutely nothing about what the Aboriginal community needs to do to help bridge the gap. It seems you think it’s all up to everyone else. I’m interested in your thoughts on what Aboriginies need to do or stop doing as the case may be.

      Also, can you please explain why you say indigenous culture is “essential for our country’s future”. I don’t really follow that. I think we should respect it and acknowledge it and learn about it, but I look at my day and the needs of my family and there is nothing I can find from Aboriginal culture that I would consider essential. My life would go on as it does now undiminshed without it.

      Also, I’m not sure comparing Australia’s natives to South Africa’s natives is a reasonable comparison. In South Africa, the native population represents something like 80% whereas in Australia it represents less than 2%. In Australia, the few never supressed the majority.

      I think recognising Aboriginals in our constitution makes absolutely no sense whilst there are still Aboriginal activists who proclaim not to recognise the constitution in the first place. Why would Aboriginese who refuse to this day to acknowledge our constitution want to be recognised within it?

      Reconciliation cannot be a one way street! And this is the single biggest mistake people make. You cannot reconcile with someone who doesn’t want to be reconciled with. And true reconciliation means we are all treated equally under the law. That would mean not having a separate welfare state for Aboriginies and one for the other 98% of us for example.

    • Bugsy says:

      02:41pm | 24/03/11

      I agree with you. We have made one mistake after the other for the entire 200 years of our history telling Aboriginal people what’s good for them. It’s their turn to do what they want to do. Problem is that over 200 years of being institutionalised by the ‘system’ no one trusts the ‘system’ to do the right thing and you would find that the core of all Aboriginal disadvantage is depression and broken down people.  You can’t expect people all of a sudden to rise up and say “yeah! Generation One! I’m going to go get myself a job!” if you’re living in a town camp and have responsibility for your sick relatives, your kids and making sure they’re going to school, your husband is in jail, your sister was taken and adopted by white people in the 60’s so your mum is depressed and has been for 50 years, getting your dole check and half of your friends and families are all depressed alcoholics and petrol sniffers.

    • Rich Fleming says:

      02:40pm | 24/03/11

      Thanks Daryl, you pose some good questions.
      Here are my answers to hopefully the most important:
      1) Ever since Capt Cook landed on this continent, Aboriginals have been reconciling their differences. Everything from laws and language to food and dress. If that isn’t making an effort than I dont know what is.
      2) Aboriginal knowledge of their land and this continent is extremely deep and complex. As our nation battles water shortages, soil salinity problems, erosion we should not forget that taking care of this nation was a core part of their culture and passed down generation to generation.
      3) I didn’t say anything in the article about constitutional recognition, however I am intrigued how it is ok to say the lords prayer every session of parliament but not recognise Aboriginal history?
      4) I agree that it’s not a one way street.
      Thanks for the questions, I hope I have given them answers that have satisfied you. smile

    • Brian McCALLUM says:

      02:41pm | 24/03/11

      I have read Richards post with great interest, if it has achieved nothing else, it has stimulated debate which is always a good thing. Arnolds post was spot on and pertinant. For the comments stating that multi culturalism does not work I hope that youe weren’t eating Pizza or Pasta whilst you were sharing that thought. For those who make statements about Aboriginal people not “Owning the land you are quite correct” they saw themselves as caretakers and looked after the land for future generations, something we “educated” people have failed to do. Since the 1900’s we have successfully demolished a lot of the land we walk on, brought about “Global warming” , we have created Nuclear disasters and poisoned the air we breathe and not necesarily made the earth a better place for our children.
      Aboriginal society did not have all the issues that have been referred to in the various posts that I have read.  The policies of the past have been largely around enforced assimilation. Assimilation is happening today to Aboriginal people because we did not give them a choice, that is the only way that they can realistically survive, in todays world. It is only 44 years since Aboriginal people were actually reognised as real people. It is going to take several generations to bring about change, but I we are serious as a nation we need to remember that real Aboriginal culture has existed for several thousands of years until white dominations split it wide open. There are still many traditional communities in this country that are trying to keep their real culture alive, and many others who are desperately trying to put their traditional past back together, as well as trying as trying to reconnect with familes that have been removed as children. For anyone to deny what has happened in the past didn’t happen is tantamount to denying the holocaust. I have read all the above comments, some informed some not so well informed. One thing that needs to be done (and should have been
      done prior to the intervention) would be to consult with traditional owners. The reason why Aboriginal people are struggling in many areas is that they are trying to fit into a society that is so different to their own. Prior to white arrival there was no alcohol, drugs or petrol issues. If you want proof of how their own traditional way of life does work one, only has to look at the Tiwi islands where white people were not able to settle and the people were able to maintain their traditional lifestyle and values even to this day. 
      There may be no simple solution to the issues but that does not mean that we should stop working at it by acknowledging that Aboriginal people are the original people of this land and that we owe them a great debt. We should embrace their culture and existance and find a way forward,no matter how difficult it may be.

    • Chris says:

      11:05pm | 24/03/11

      “we owe them a great debt”—what, precisely, is the debt we owe to Aboriginal people? What did they ever provide, achieve or create?
      “We should embrace their culture”—why? It’s a stone-age culture completely unconnected with anything modern (indeed, anything post-5000BCE).
      Some cultures are irrevocably and irresistibly altered by a more dominant culture, for the better. This is one of them.
      Does anyone seriouly pretend that there can be any return to this violent, misogynistic, pre-literate, pre-historic, superstitious, subsistence lifestyle?

    • michael j says:

      03:16pm | 24/03/11

      Paint sniffing,drinking very large amounts of achohol,,n, methylated spirits
      will take their toll after awhile,,this is true no matter wat or who you are
      do your stats take this into account,,
      if you use the same amount of people from the human race who indulge these habits the stats will no dout be around the same,
      my Aboriginal mates from childhood are at your avarge DEATH age now
      but they give the apperence of being healthy,,,why?
      i spent much time with them growing up and met many of their relations
      and their were many over your DEATH age
      so is this a new thing that is happening,,or is it a genetic thing going back 60,000 years
      your willingness to hold onto ‘‘CULTURE’’ no matter who’s or where it is from is something i disagree with, i think it is the most derisive thing on this planet it separateness people and leads to war,,,,,,,,
      and why should you expect me to embrace some fairy story i chose not to believe in ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    • Fairsnotfair says:

      04:35pm | 24/03/11

      Michael j, have you been Paint sniffing,drinking very large amounts of achohol,,n, methylated spirits again?

    • michael j says:

      10:45pm | 24/03/11

      of course,metho is all iv’e been able to afford under the last two governments,,but i do VOTE,,,,,,,,

    • Fairsnotfair says:

      10:31am | 25/03/11

      Nicely said, Michael - like your style smile

    • Jes says:

      03:18pm | 24/03/11

      This guy was trying to put a message out there in attempt to ‘close the gap’ - putting focus on the well known facts regarding indigenous health issues as an example of how big the gap actually is!
      ... and you lot (of quite obviously yobbo whiteys) have used it as an oportunity to extend the gap by arguing about ‘who deserves what’ and ‘whos fault it is’.
      I think it is time you all grew up and did some research on the FULL history of Australia pre1788 and onwards - political, socio-economic, demographic, health, environment, etc - BEFORE you offer any more uneducated and ignorant comments.
      ... and perhaps - maybe then you will find something a little more factual and constructive to offer.

      To close the gap - we need ‘understanding, empathy, tolerance… and above all RESPECT! You cant have any of this if you dont actually KNOW anything - and you just want to fight about what you THINK…
      Get informed you lot - before you open your traps!

    • Erick says:

      04:51pm | 24/03/11

      Jes, it’s hateful and ignorant attitudes like yours that spur resistance to political correctness.

    • Therimu says:

      05:10pm | 24/03/11

      Nice reply Jen.

      As a yobbo whitey myself, I take considerable offence to the crap the the below lot are harping on about.  They make all other yobbo whiteys (like me) look like ignorant racists - I’m sick of being painted with that brush.

      There are clearly some trust issues in Australia.  There are also vast inequalities in the standard of living between different groups.  Race does not determine all of these inequalities, but when we look at the nation as a whole, indigenous people are considerably worse-off than us yobbo whiteys.

      We need to close the gap.  We’ve spent enough time sitting on our laurels thinking that the problem is too big to fix, or worse still, pretending that there isn’t a problem at all. 

      In order to move forward, I believe that we need to forget about fault, leave behind our prejudices, and work at improving the health, education and morale levels of all marginalised people in Australia, irrespective of race. 

      This would have to be coupled with your understanding, empathy, tolerance and respect - going in both directions.

    • Jes says:

      10:16pm | 28/03/11

      Erick - I dont hate.
      Therimu - I like what you say grin I agree with you wholeheartedly grin

    • chucky says:

      04:57pm | 24/03/11

      The more I read the comments from those viewing Australia’s indigenous situation from the tired old “black armband” perspective, the more I realise it’s really a “black blindfold”. For truly positive change to occur, this “blindfold” needs to be permanently discarded.

    • Davido says:

      05:32pm | 24/03/11

      This conversation is just sad and pathetic.

    • michael j says:

      10:52pm | 24/03/11

      Davido i think you are dead rites ,a multi million dollar inquiry should be held
      to find out just why this conversation and others like it are sad and pathetic,,,,,,,,,

    • Kiah says:

      06:15pm | 24/03/11

      More than anything the conversation sparked from the raw truth of this article holds testament to what Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people battle day to day. A good example of the boundaries in closing the gap.

      I think when all people are ready to accept others and other cultures, when superiority, money and power hold less value you than equality and love - that is when Reconciliation will begin.

      I don’t know why the stereotypes and badtalk are necessary or relevant when there is a whole culture that’s dying and suffering in our very own country?

    • part of the problem says:

      06:32pm | 24/03/11

      This is motherhood staements without practical action

    • Bob says:

      06:57pm | 24/03/11

      Ok so Im the bad guy, thats fine, I say it like I see it and have experienced it. Many city dwellers have not experienced living in communities with a high aboriginal population. Many of you are saying “Oh how can someone say anything derogatory about Aboriginals !” , what many of you fail to understand is that you are doing more damage to Aboriginal Australians with the “Poor Indigenous people” remarks.

      I find it incredibly interesting that the piece written by Richard continues to group all Aboriginals together, and if you truly think about it this is the most Racist and damaging action to take. I believe that any Australian, be they English Australian, Irish Australian, Chinese Australian or Aboriginal Australian should all be treated exactley the same! If there is an Australian that needs help based on their individual circumstances then they should be helped, what I do not agree with and will fight against until my daying day is to say that an entire race of people in this country should receive extra attention or assistance!

      If there is a group of struggling Sudanese Australians in Sydney then do we then say that all Sudenese Australians should get extra assistance? Or do we take each case on an individual basis?

      As I am apparently so evil, please tell me why the entire Aboriginal race should be given extra assistance when not all require it?

      Am I wrong for saying help should be given to those who need it due to their circumstances or should we give help based soley on their race? Tell me which is the most racist?

    • Kiah says:

      09:11pm | 24/03/11

      You are not evil and I will agree that the Governments dealings with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders has been unfair at times but, if you are born Indigenous you are automatically disadvantaged and in the minority group. You’re born into it so yeah - Indigenous Australians are deserving of the support.

      And yes, ‘part of the problem’ - my statements were without practical action. But if Australia’s mindset is still at this stage that has caused so much detriment to all of our people - then we are not and will not move forward.

      I believe that people need to understand and open their mind to other cultures and people before any Reconciliation can actually happen and the negative feedback on this article demonstrates the exact barriers I’m talking about.

    • Chrisindarwin says:

      09:58pm | 24/03/11

      BoozeBoozeBoozeBoozeBoozeBoozeBooze,glorious booze.

      I think I can see the problem.

      BUY BACK LICENCES.

      In the top end the start is buying back liqueur licenses.
      So many corner stores masquerading as grocery stores when in fact being liqueur stores selling grocereys.

    • Brian McCALLUM says:

      06:53pm | 25/03/11

      To those who cannot understand the debt that is owed, and what did the original owners ever achieve, I would suggest that you live with tunnell vision. They have kept and maintained this land in pristine condition, they have learnt to live in whatever the land throws up at them, and have provided the best country in the world to live in. There are obviously people in this debate that are very materialistic, how would you get on without your iphones cars and television sets. What stories about your culture are you able to pass on to your children. If one really goes back in time as some has quite rightly suggested you wil find that the first fleet was actually instructed to negotiate with the traditional owners for the use of the land, which is not what happened and was the basis for the first offences carried out on aboriginal people, These documented instructions can be found within the walls of the British Parliament. At least John Batman had the general idea.
      i just wonder how many of those with tunnell vision would get on if you were sitting in your comfortable rooms with your wide screen televisions and some person came in with his soldiers and decided to take over your house and claim it as his own, then while you are complaining, shoot your wife and poison your food. Would you be happy about that. Aboriginal people are very forgiving and in spite of all the issues have survived and will continue to survive in spite of the obstacles

    • Jim Peters says:

      06:56pm | 25/03/11

      The real problem is that people like Richard Fleming keep the gap open by constantly making an issue of it. Ever heard of a self-fulfilling prophecy? You keep talking about how badly done Aboriginal people are (I wish I had access to half the benefits they get) and in turn that makes the aboriginal people feel entitled, it makes them think that they are owed something instead of working for it themselves.

      How about the racism of low expectations? We keep referring to them as a group instead of individuals and hold them to a different standard simply because they’re aboriginals. They arent expected to succeed because they’re disadvantaged.

      I have two very good friends who are aboriginal. Both own their own homes and hold good jobs. Which they earned. And let me tell you that they have nothing but contempt for attitudes like the one Richard Fleming. They got where they are off their own bat, not because they’re aboriginal and some patronizing do-gooder thought they needed help.

      Oh, and one more thing, when you talk about the “genuinely amazing history and culture that this country has to offer” I take it that the only history and culture one is allowed to celebrate is anything other than European or white? I bet Richard Fleming is one of the first to be outraged whenever the topic of commemorating the First Fleet or any other white achievement in this country comes up.

    • Linda Seaborn says:

      12:15pm | 27/03/11

      Aboriginal culture is used to promote what is interesting and unique about Australia and it is rightly something to be proud of. Why do we have so much trouble backing that with action? How can you be proud of something that you are also willing to condemn to destruction? If Aboriginal people want to live in remote communities to maintain their culture, that is where the housing and schools and infrastructure should be located. If we don’t have enough money, how about a mining super-profits tax to pay for it? And as well as that, any Aboriginal people who do or who chose to live in mainstream culture should be supported to overcome racist barriers. If we were serious about this, we would do whatever it takes. And we’d work within a framework of respect. It’s not that hard. 

      Alternatively - you could instead insist that this be all about yourself and compete to be the biggest victim, but surely you’d have too much shame to do something like that??

    • Brian McCALLUM says:

      11:01pm | 29/03/11

      It is the wider community who stereotypes the disadvantaged indigenous people in this country. Some of the comments posted by people cannot go unchallenged. Firstly the “benefits” given to Aboriginal people are a complete myth. There are more white people benefitting from the money put into Aboriginal communities. They are the ones who run the shops in Aboriginal communities and charge grossly inflated prices for their goods.
      They are also the ones who take things to court in order to sell liquor in otherwise dry communities. I have lost count of the number of people who have Aborginal friends who have successfully built a life in the wider community. They are very commendable but their attitudes towards their own people is pathetic. They have had opportunities that not available to the communites under discussion here. I suppose that the late Fred Hollows,
      Ian Thorpe, Rob De Costella, Slim dusty and Lindsay Fox (Just to name a few) have all got the wrong end of the debate. I would suggest that they are far more aware of the issues than some of the posts on this site, and they are all working in their own way to right the wrongs of the past. Surprisingly they are a;; white people who have reached the pinnacle of success in their chosen field and have decided to reach out a hand to those in need. It is a pity some of the people making comment here cannot take off their blinkers and look at the bigger picture. Only then when we all address the problem can we move forward together

 

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