The World Cup, or a cup for just half the world

Andy says:

11:23am | 18/05/10

Let’s talk about soccer - the drivel from soccer fans of late is getting beyond ridiculous. Soccer is a sport stuck back in the era of European imperial colonialism. This is reflected in it’s propaganda of “the world game” and attitudes of its fans that have a desire to dominate everything. That’s what soccer is about really, nationalism and tribal posturing. The sport itself is of no consequence which is part of the reason it is so utterly boring and all the action happens off the field.

Soccer is an also-ran sport across huge areas of the globe, such as India, China and North America and of course Australia, it is not really the “world game” at all. Basketball is played all around the world in varying degrees too, it has just as much legitimacy to be called the “world game” as soccer. I don’t recall basketball fans ever putting down other sports like soccer fans apparently need to all the time.

Soccer fans love to proclaim how rich and powerful soccer is, but the worlds premier soccer competition is nearly bankrupt and is nowhere near the scale and wealth of any of the premier US sporting leagues. Soccer fans love to talk salaries because they typically earn more than Australian footballers, but they completely ignore that the difference between average soccer salaries and AFL salaries is far less than that between soccer and US sports. Soccer salaries are much closer to the AFL than to the NBA for example, it’s not hard to see there are a fair few AFL players that earn more than the average EPL player. What’s more, the gap between average salaries in the EPL and the AFL closes every year, and the AFL isn’t going broke in the process.

The AFL is remarkably strong given the small population base it covers. The much hyped EPL draws smaller average attendances than the AFL and that’s with 60 odd million people crammed into an area comparable to Victoria. Only German soccer gets better average attendances than the AFL. The premier division in apparently “soccer mad” Brazil would need to increase it’s popularity 20 fold to match the AFL averages on a per-capita basis and double attendances in real terms to better the AFL in average.

Oh yeah, where does a big path of the strength of the AFL come from? All the women that follow the game. So how about a bit of love and respect for our indigenous code and a little less neo-colonial proselytization.

WK says:

11:54am | 18/05/10

Andy, let’s talk about the typical reply of the AFL/NRL following anti-football(soccer) fan.

Basketball may be an internationally played game, I don’t know, however nobody can deny that the FIFA World Cup is the only competition that is truly global. 

32 Countries start off in the World Cup with a substantial number of more countries vying for a spot more than 12 months before the competition starts.

Cricket, Rugby League, AFL, Rugby Union, basketball, baseball, hockey, ice hockey etc can not compete with that.

So how about you stop being nationalistic and accept trhings for what they are.

Andy says:

12:35pm | 18/05/10

WK, let’s talk about the anti-any-other-than-soccer posturing from soccer fans shall we? I’m denying your obviously false claim right now. Name one country in the world where basketball is not played? Thank you for confirming the imperial attitudes of soccer fans.

I do wonder at the cognitive dissonance of deriding others as “nationalistic” for lauding a club competition while simultaneously promoting a WORLD CUP where NATIONS compete, that has a long history of nationalistic violence. We all know soccer, nationalism and bigotry go hand in hand, which is part of why the old NSL died. I think you should worry a little more about enjoying your sport and stop trying to denigrate everything else.

FYI: http://www.fiba.com/

Matthew says:

01:00pm | 18/05/10

Funnily enough, US sports aren’t even on the radar when it comes to “world” sports.  Baseball, Basketball, Gridiron and golf all have around the 400-500 million fans compared to football’s 3-3.5 billion fans.  Andy, how can you claim that it ISN’T the world game?  After all, it has far more countries playing it and 33% more fans than any other sport.  As WK stated, soccer has 32 nations that are good enough to make the finals, that doesn’t include the other 80 or so that aren’t good enough.  The next highest is cricket (2-3 billion fans world wide…mostly from india) with 11 teams ‘good enough’ then you start getting into teams like Holland, Germany etc.

Sheedy's Left Foot says:

01:17pm | 18/05/10

Andy…
400 Million people watch the Fa Cup Final
Last years Champions league final was watched by 109 million people
The English Premier League has a global cumulative audience of 4.5 billion.
The 2006 FIFA World Cup has a cumulative audience in 214 countries of 26.29 billion viewers

But as you say nobody is interested.

On salaries, FYI, TIM Cahill earns more playing for Everton in a season than each club in the NRL has allocated to them via the salary cap. And he is and average earner.

Nobody outside Australia watches AFL regardless of how many expats play the game in a local park, it simply does not register on the world stage. Thats does not make it a bad sport so I am not sure why you have such a huge chip on your shoulder?

Are you scared that soccer could come here in 2018 or 2022 and finish AFL?

Wallaby says:

01:30pm | 18/05/10

Andy. WK just proved you are absolutely right.

Andy says:

01:44pm | 18/05/10

Matthew, the point is it’s A game, not THE game. The point is that soccer fans don’t seem to be able to accept that large parts of the world, including Australia, have their own preoccupations and don’t really care that much for the self designated “world game”, they think the world begins and ends in Europe. Soccer fans can’t accept the existence and worth of other sports, they can’t even grudgingly admit the remarkable achievements of our own national sport and constantly need to put down any other game. Soccer fans exhibit astounding hypocrisy and myopia, for a sport that is “not even an also ran” the “Aussie footie code” runs rings around soccer in Australia.

Andy says:

01:47pm | 18/05/10

Mr Left Foot, I suggest you read my posts above properly. Thanks for confirming that soccer superiority complex, again.

Moses Hickory says:

02:02pm | 18/05/10

Andy, you’re just plain wrong. The reason football (soccer) is the world game is because ANYONE with two legs can play it. The game can be played with a bunch of rolled up socks and four rocks for goals. This means football is accessible to people of all socio-economic backgrounds hence debunking your “European imperial colonialism” drivel.

Quit with the small man complex. Go to any school in Australia and have a look at what game is being played in the school yard, is it AFL, Rugby? No it’s football.

This doesn’t mean that sports like AFL and rugby are inferior. I enjoy the Australian based sports just as much. It’s just that these sports aren’t as relevant to the global population as football is.

Sheedy's Left Foot says:

02:12pm | 18/05/10

Andy..I have and all as you have done is criticise soccer and soccer fans.

Until you started this people were talking about soccer, no mention of AFL or any other sports. And certainly no criticism of them or their fans.

I think soccer is the best game there is. Nothing wrong with that It is my opinion. But does my love of soccer cause me to hate other codes and criticize them for being arrogant etc etc?

No.

I happily go along to watch the Lions, The Broncos, The Reds and the Roar whilst having a healthy obsession with cricket. All codes are great in their own way but the fact is soccer is bigger than all of them, is far more widely spread and more popular.

This is not arrogance it is a fact. Not eveyone plays it on the planet but 214 watch it regularly and 208 countries are members of FIFA., which is more than the 192 members of the UN….

Danie says:

02:22pm | 18/05/10

Andy, I know plenty of people who love both Football and AFL/Rugby.  The sports are not exclusive of one another.  Your attitude against those who support the world game, is no better than the attitudes of those you claim to put down other codes in favour of it.

Just have to add also, that football is played in India, its just that theyre not very good at it.  The US and China both have very respectable sides.  You ask “name one country that doesnt play basketball”, well name one country that doesnt play football?  The truth is that it is not just an European game.  It dominates the African continent, the South American continent, Asia and the Middle East as well as Europe.  Its just that you only see the EPL and a couple of other Euro competitions on tv here in Australia.

Andy says:

02:27pm | 18/05/10

Moses, rolled up socks is the basis of your argument is it? Please, you’re embarrassing yourself. It seems to completely escape you that the soccer fans in this forum are exhibiting the very same short sighted colonial mentality that I described. Nothing I’ve said is wrong and nothing you’ve said refutes that.

Oh and by the way the two schools near me have three ovals with goal posts and no soccer pitches, though I’m not sure what you think that means. I played soccer as a kid and even kick a soccer ball around in the park occasionally now, but it didn’t and doesn’t mean I prefer soccer to football.

Soccer is not as relevant to the global population, or Australians, as it you obviously want to us to believe.

Nick says:

02:33pm | 18/05/10

Ohh Andy. I’m embarrassed for you.

Just quickly without going into too much depth. FIFA has more member nations than the United Nations. It is played and watched by more people than any other sport. Hence “The world game” (duh!).
These are simple facts Andy, not imperial colonialism, tribal posturing, etc. If you can find some facts which prove that football is not the most popular sport in the world, I would love to see them. Good luck.

Andy says:

02:51pm | 18/05/10

Mr Left Foot, I have reasonably criticized the behavior of soccer fans, and I think you need to look at the root comment of this thread if you want to see why. This denigrating attitude is par for the course from soccer, it’s evident in Australian forums all across the internet wherever sports in mentioned. I have but pointed out the nature of this attitude and its hypocrisy.

Now if you are the generous all sports loving fan you claim, and are not just conveniently changing your tack, then you would be able to perceive the negativity in the root comment and would be in agreement with me. Instead you post some irrelevancy about some soccer player earning an average NBA salary, after all why post that if not to assert the pretenses of the root comment?

Andy says:

02:58pm | 18/05/10

Danie, I’m not knocking soccer, I’m knocking the attitude of soccer fans. The attitude that you then fall into the trap of repeating yourself. And to say Indians are not good at soccer is blatantly racist by the way.

Matt says:

03:30pm | 18/05/10

Would saying that Indians are not good at AFL be blatantly racist as well?

Andy says:

03:51pm | 18/05/10

Matt, yes saying Indians are not good at Australian football would be racist.  The fact not many Indians play Australian football has nothing to do with innate ability and talent.

BTS says:

04:11pm | 18/05/10

Andy,

How does racism attach itself to the argument? Because they come from India?

Race has nothing to do with it, it’s about skill and ability.  Australian’s aren’t good at table tennis isn’t a racist statement, if they don’t play it well, it’s a comment about sporting ability, not race.

Wayne Kerr says:

04:23pm | 18/05/10

Andy, where exactly did I criticise AFL or any other sport? I simply refuted your statement that soccer “is not the world game at all”..your words.

I did not criticise fans of any other sport as you have since done of soccer fans.  Yet you act exactly in the way you accuse soccer fans of being insular and biased.

Andy says:

05:09pm | 18/05/10

BTS, why aren’t Australians good at table tennis? Do they lack an additional appendage or something? People become good at sports they play a lot. Just because Australians might not play a lot of table tennis doesn’t mean they are not capable of playing to the highest standard in the world.

It’s no different than saying Asians can’t drive.

Andy says:

05:22pm | 18/05/10

Wayne Kerr, aka WK I presume? You didn’t refute my statement at all and completely ignored my earlier response to your assertion and hypocritical accusation of nationalism.

Yes I have criticized soccer fans, because they deserve criticism. While soccer is the most popular sport in the world in raw numbers, across large areas of the world is not popular relative to established games.  It’s claims to calling itself the “world game” are no stronger than basketball. It is part of the culture of soccer to inflate its own importance and belittle everything else, which was the objective of your original response. The character and culture of soccer supporters has been amply demonstrated in this discussion if you need further evidence. There is no acceptance of other sports as peers by soccer fans, no acceptance of the merits and achievements of other games.

It’s amazing how quickly anyone that objects to the domineering culture of soccer is labeled “insular and biased”.

Josh says:

06:33pm | 18/05/10

I’m not going to get into the argument of whichever sport is “better” or whatever, but just to look at the point of football being called the “world game” due to FIFA having more nation members compared to the UN (208 - 192).  FIBA (the governing body of world basketball) currently has 214 nation members, and I have been known to play it in my bedroom with a rolled up ball of socks and some sort of container to throw it into/through…

Sherekahn says:

09:37am | 19/05/10

Wow, AFL versus Soccer!
Now gentlemen, Soccer is an artistic game of consummate skill, which is why women also play it.
i do not believe AFL is played by women, tho’ it has some skill.
AFL is a renegade sport brought over by convicts, many, perhaps most of who were Irish.  It is perhaps the last bastion of dinkum Aussies visible in our overloaded multicultural society.
The true Irishman, like the Jew inhabits the whole world.  The one contributing much, the other taking much.  Both have long been considered trouble.  The most recent sin for the Irish is, allowing their hallowed ales to be made elsewhere than Ireland and still passing them off as IRISH.  May the Devil catch up with them!
The most recent for the Jews is their lack of patriotism for their adopted Country, choosing to give all their allegiance to the Zionists in Israel.  The Devil caught up with them long ago.

The Cricket says:

01:19pm | 19/05/10

Andy,
Your argument that basketball has just as much claim to the title of The World Game is desperate. It manifestly doesn’t. It’s played by vastly fewer people across the world and has vastly fewer followers. End of debate.
Soccer may not be the number one sport in the US, India or Australia, but so what? It’s the number one sport pretty much everywhere else. Where is basketball the number one sport? It’s not even the biggest sport in the US, you peanut!
That’s not to ridicule basketball or its fans - just to ridicule you.
And for you to play the race card is simply disgraceful. India is the second most populous country in the world yet is ranked 132nd by FIFA. So clearly India is pretty rubbish at soccer. That doesn’t suggest Indians are less physically gifted that other ethnic groups, but is based purely on the evidence of the country’s international success, e.g. nil. Indians clearly prefer to spend their time playing cricket rather than soccer. Good on them. But it’s no more racist to say Indians aren’t very good at soccer than to say Indians are better than the Swedish at cricket!

Daniel says:

03:00am | 20/05/10

Sherekahn your comment is wrong on so many levels that it boarders on the fantastic.

Ronk says:

11:41am | 20/05/10

The Cricket:
“Soccer may not be the number one sport in the US, India or Australia, but so what? It’s the number one sport pretty much everywhere else.” This is exactly the typical bombastic pig-ignorant soccer fan comment that Andy is talking about.
To merely begin your enlightenment, please note that the #1 sport is:
Baseball in the USA, Cuba and many other Caribbean countries;
Cricket in just about every other country in the Caribbean, the Middle east and South Asia
Table tennis in China
Cycling in France
Sumo/baseball in Japan
Ice hockey in Canada
Wrestling in Turkey
Gaelic football in Ireland
Rugby union in Wales
Rugby league in PNG
Australian football in Nauru
And yes Basketball in Croatia, Latvia, Lithuania.
I could go on and on.
Even in supposedly “soccer-mad” Latin America, many countries have other national sports.
In short soccer is the #1 sport in a rag-tag collection of decadent, dying “old Europe” countries and a few of their former colonial outposts, altogether comprising a minority of the world both in number of countries and in population.

As a soccer fan you surely know that if countries were chosen purely on their world ranking, the soccer “world cup” would consist entirely of European and South American countries. The FIFA selection rules give an artificial boost to countries from other continents to support the myth that soccer is “the world’s game”.

Your argument that soccer has a claim to the title of The World Game is desperate. It manifestly doesn’t. It’s played by vastly fewer people across the world and has vastly fewer followers than you claim. End of debate.
That’s not to ridicule soccer or its fans - just to ridicule you.

Ronk says:

11:51am | 20/05/10

Btw according to their world federations, not only basketball but also volleyball and table tennis have more affiliated national federations and more players than soccer does.

Also in most of Africa athletics is the most popular sport, as is basketball in the Phillippines (pop 95 million) where soccer is almost unheard of.

Sherekahn says:

12:53pm | 18/05/10

There are games that women play as well as men.  Part of the allure of watching the opposite sex playing sport is that old attraction of physical fitness.  It is a natural attraction.  Some games should not be played by women and perhaps not by men either.  Rugby comes to mind as does boxing, wrestling etc. 
Yet again some sports, such as men’s basketball are a farce, why, because some men are so tall they jump up 300mms to place the ball in the net.  Hardly challenging is that?  Women’s basketball is more skilful.
That women’s sport is looked at, as a hobby is purely macho nonsense and lack of financial backing.
If men are still thinking sport came from a preparation for war then they haven’t moved with the times.  War is also about skill today more than just brute force.

Dan says:

01:07pm | 18/05/10

That ‘hobby’ line is a pretty bloody weak argument, considering that practically every professional sport played and marketed today started off as an amateur hobby with the players holding down regular full-time jobs.

DocBud says:

05:47pm | 18/05/10

Sherekahn,

It has nothing to do with macho nonsense, there is no financial backing because few people are prepared to pay money to watch women play cricket or football whereas they’ll pay 100s, even 1000s, of dollars and travel halfway around the world to watch men play.

Anyone should be free to play whatever sport they like as long as they assume the full risk of doing so themselves. I don’t like boxing but would not support a ban because if two consenting adults want to knock ten bells out of each other that is their business and not mine.

Yes, Dan, all sports were amateur, but even in those days, teams had large followings and so the evolution to professional sport was not difficult as there was a ready market. There is no such market for women’s cricket, football or rugby. I do not believe any sport should be subsidised by the taxpayer. Sports should be funded by private sponsors, spectators and participants.

Luke says:

07:02pm | 18/05/10

Brazil, Australia and China have strong womens soccer teams KH… they play hard and well… but it just aint as exciting as the mens!

BK says:

01:57pm | 18/05/10

Let me try that again.

Most TV spost is about and for men. Most of the other programming is produced by and for women.

Jeremy says:

10:57am | 18/05/10

Actually the women recieve less money than the men for competing, and their sponsorship deals are invariably smaller than men of equal rank.
Equal pay when they start playing 5 sets?

Mr Subramanian says:

12:24pm | 18/05/10

Last night’s two ANZ Championship netball matches on One HD between the NSW Swifts & the Qld Firebirds and the NZ teams the Mystics & cellar dwellers the Pulse were crackers, and far more interesting than any soccer match. Let’s face it, no other sport rewards the less skilled side as much as soccer does ~ so the old hacks can still compete with the young guns to a much greater degree than in, say, cricket…

Ant Sharwood says:

11:37am | 18/05/10

sarah, if you read my piece carefully, you’ll see i argue for two separate tournaments played concurrently

Sarah says:

03:26pm | 18/05/10

But why?
There are already a dozen “2nd tier” football tournaments - UEFA Champion League, European Cup, etc - which are alternatives and sometimes more exciting than the World Cup Finals.
Why would yet another one, this time for women, be of any interest?

neil says:

02:06pm | 18/05/10

Actually cricket is the real world game with around 1.3 billion followers campared to about 600 million that follow soccer. And the reason there is 11 payers on a soccer team is it evolved from a winter training game played by the Collage cricket teams around Cambridge UK.

Soccer, rugby union and league, AFL, gridiron and baseball can all be traced back to the true world game, cricket.

Luke says:

04:12pm | 18/05/10

Neil, i dont know where you get your figures from!
The reality is soccer teams come from more countries… 
The numbers you come up with? I have no idea how you got that… must have something to do with India…

Ronk says:

12:00pm | 19/05/10

The “Anglicised Gaelic football” story is a myth. In fact the rules of modern Gaelic football are based mainly on Australian Football rather than vice versa. The rules of Australian Football in fact have stayed closer to the original form of football from whioch other codes have branched off at various stages. (the English soccer association didn’t introduce its rule against handling the ball until after it started in 1866).

Justin says:

02:50pm | 18/05/10

Good points - it’s probably even worse as there are 64 matches in 33 days & some days are triple headers (broadcast wise). Even if you had womens matches as curtain raisers at the venues, most wouldn’t be broadcast as the mens matches at other venues would be on.

Justin says:

04:26pm | 18/05/10

Didn’t the American team get attacked for doing just that years ago? I’m thinking of a name like Brandi Chastain or something like that.

Ant Sharwood says:

11:39am | 19/05/10

Charles, good to hear from you. In my defense, you should know journos don’t write their own headlines. We’re far too stupid to write both an article and the bit in big letters above it

Charles Kelly says:

12:57pm | 19/05/10

Haha - funny Ant, I was actually going to mention that myself (gotta give those pesky subs something to do), but I wasn’t sure if it was the same situation in the blog world as it is in the magazine world I’m more familiar with.

Sky says:

10:30am | 20/05/10

Thank you Kyle. Your last para is excellent and i completely agree.

Ronk says:

11:15am | 20/05/10

Yes Kyle your last para is excellent but you hypocritically contradict these fine sentiments in your first 2 paragraphs, full of the soccer fans’ usual bombastic put-downs of other sports, claiming “you can’t seriously compare” them to soccer, calling soccer “football” as if there were no other codes of football (“soccer” is the original English name for the code and it’s the name used in every English speaking country with the single exception of England) and calling the soccer world cup simply the “World Cup” as if no other sport had any world championship worth mentioning.

Charles Kelly says:

03:49pm | 20/05/10

OK, I have to ask - Kyle’s “last para is excellent” why exactly? All it really does is state the bleeding obvious! Of course it’s true that “football fans” watch “all codes”. That’s just basic common sense, because every single “code” is a code of FOOTBALL.

And why does it always have to be ‘us’ vs. ‘them’? Easy, because any soccer fan who insists on ignorantly to referring to soccer in Australia simply as “football” makes it that way.

Luke says:

10:44am | 19/05/10

You are joking…

Markus says:

11:36am | 19/05/10

Each woman should be paid equally to their male counterparts after choosing to drop down to only playing half-games.
And even as defenders/midfielders, their pay should equal that of the team’s top goalscoring male.

Luke says:

11:35am | 20/05/10

Markus… I have to know…
Are you serious?

Charles Kelly says:

01:37pm | 19/05/10

You’re absolutely right Ronk - and don’t forget that the ball bouncing on the head also causes speech impediments in some players (high-pitched girly voices). The most alarming example of the brain damage caused is in the widespread cases of ignorance and illiteracy evident in both players and supporters (viral perhaps?). Many poor unfortunates become incapable of mentally processing the fact that although “football” is the game, their code is called “Association Football” and it should be referred to as such - of course “soccer”, the traditional English abbreviation, is also acceptable. It’s ironic that the Rugby codes are regarded as “meathead” sports, when at least they’re intelligent enough to realise the importance of distinguishing their codes from all others.