The ugly truth about pretty pop culture

Eric says:

07:32am | 09/09/09

Biological fact: After the age of 30, women’s reproductive capacity declines rapidly.

Fats B. says:

07:48am | 09/09/09

Are these songs,tv shows and movies made because there are so many ” needy, desperate and hung-up on finding a partner? ” women out there or do they become that way because of the media ? I think for every woman such as yourself that is happy with being single or not hung up on finding Mr Right, there’s another who is. All down to personal choice i guess.

Gillian says:

08:04am | 09/09/09

Thank you for your comment Eric. I’m sure every woman in their 20s, 30s and 40s are made very aware of this fact, in fact it’s forced down our throats. My point is that we do not need to be reminded of it every single day through popular culture or by people minding our business and asking us questions about it. This constant focus on women’s ability to reproduce or not to reproduce is also a huge assumption that women even want to have children. My point in the article is that women’s sole purpose in life is not neccessarily to find a husband and reproduce but popular culture reinforces this stereotype.  And before we go on, I also don’t agree with popular culture such as man hating songs or movies that disparage men but there is only so much you can say in 800 words

That’s a good question Fats B. and there are certainly women in society who feel this sterotype and are desperate to settle down and raise children but is this because of a natural need of their own or the pressure that they feel from popular culture, media and society in general?

Gurmesh says:

08:47am | 09/09/09

Gillian,
Lily Allen’s song is about a woman with little or no prospects - presumably you’ve got a successful career and many more prospects on the horizon, and aren’t waiting for a man to come along and save her.

Eric says:

08:51am | 09/09/09

Actually, Gillian, as far as Mother Nature is concerned, reproduction *is* the sole purpose of human beings. A billion years of evolution cannot be so easily cast aside.

And while I agree that there are ways to live a good and fulfilling childless life, nevertheless these go against a very deep-seated instinct. It isn’t just pop culture that urges women and men to settle down and have kids, but the nature of life itself.

Voxpop says:

09:13am | 09/09/09

Looking at that list of movies I can see several that were bestselling books before hand.  And who bought them - women.  Some of those books Bridget Jones’ Diary etc have been run away bestsellers as well as enduring over time.  Women enjoy reading these books as well as seeing the movies - it’s called fiction.  And as for Lilly Allen who’d seriously take much notice of those lyrics - they come from a young woman who hasn’t experienced much of life as yet.  Hell even the very mature women go for the crap that Mills and Boone publish.  And then you have the incredible surge of interest in Twilight - trashy romance with vampires for teens.

Women can enjoy the escapism but still see the world and their place in it as being removed from pop fiction.

Caz says:

09:19am | 09/09/09

Eric, cultural evolution is a very strong force that dances alongside natural evolution on a daily basis. Our drives to be socially accepted and to lead lives based on status, kindship and spirituality sometimes override all natural urges. Look at priests for an extreme example. Nothing “natural” there

Your shortminded views that lay everything back to “natural order” is a very basic way to look at life. It’s pretty much the kindergarten version of anthropology, evolution and sociology.  But you get a gold star for trying.

Heather Smith says:

09:28am | 09/09/09

...and I am disapointed I missed Lily Allen last night :(

Thanks for sharing Gillian - great work - look forward to seeing more!

Eric says:

09:30am | 09/09/09

Caz, your shallow analysis leads you to misinterpret what I said. Please refer to my second paragraph, of which you have missed the first sentence—where I hint at the very obvious points you belabour.

Here’s a tip for you: The assertion of one truth, such as biological evolution,  does not necessarily mean the denial of another truth such as cultural evolution. You shouldn’t assume that other people think in such simple, binary terms.

No gold star for you; you made an incorrect assumption and jumped in based on that.

Caz says:

09:41am | 09/09/09

Eric, you’re trying too hard.
Oh and I gave you you’re only gold star so I didn’t expect you to give it back. I’ve got heaps and I hand them out to very special people. Like you.

Bridgit Pankhurst says:

09:49am | 09/09/09

I think something everyone overlooks in this modern debate about the role of women is that the Holy Grail of Love (commitment/marriage) was often a prison and reproductive ball and chain on our grandmothers and great grandmothers.  They couldn’t escape bad marriages easily, and they couldn’t avoid having a lot more children than they wanted to. My guess is that marriage then wasn’t the sexual and emotional heaven contemporary movies hold out as something modern women can aspire to.  The sex was probably perfunctory and basically to keep the man happy, and the children came along as a natural result of that.  And how did women really feel about that?

Eric says:

10:05am | 09/09/09

Caz, since you’ve turned to pure ad-hominem attacks, I’ll take it that you’ve admitted defeat. Better luck next time.

Bridgit, I don’t know ho women felt about marriage and children 50 years ago. But it’s definitely a ball and chain on men in today’s Australia. With the sexist Family Court routinely handing over children to women, along with men’s property and income, marriage is a trap best avoided.

Here I can agree with Gillian. For a man, the single and childless life is by far the safest option.

Nic says:

10:08am | 09/09/09

Is this some sort of recursive satire?
Seriously, an entire media column by a single woman in her 30s, complaining that she doesn’t want to be portrayed in the media as complaining about being a single woman in her 30s?
This is so self-referential it’s making my brain hurt.

Audrey Moss says:

10:09am | 09/09/09

You write good articles.

PG says:

10:11am | 09/09/09

During WW1 & 2 women would go around handing out white feathers to men who wouldn’t join up. Similarly I have heard young women complaining that men won’t “fight” for them when they are having an argument with others. I think this is a similar process to the one Gillian is set apon. women who do not forefil the Cultural norms—read Male Understandings—- that not having children somehow makes women cowards

Both our Genders have expectations about each others roles and because we have different assignments in sex and reproduction and different experiences we tend to lay our gender (Mis)understandings on the other sex.

Rowan M says:

10:31am | 09/09/09

“as a woman; your self worth is always linked back to a man to give your life a sense of purpose.”

by who?  i would have reckoned that your self worth is always down to you, and bugger what anyone else thinks.  it’s not like there’s an international ‘self-worth market’ pegged to the US dollar or something!

Eric, my sympathies for the keeper of your self imposed prison.

Sally says:

10:49am | 09/09/09

Single women in their thirties who do not have children often seem more self-obsessed than women who have a family to look after. One of the side effects of giving your time, love and energy to another person is that you feel good about yourself on a deep, intrinsic level, and by definition you become a less selfish, solipsistic human being.

Gillian says:

10:58am | 09/09/09

Gurmesh, everyone measures success differently. Success for one woman might be owning her own business or becoming CEO of a company, for others it may be just making ends meet but working in a job or career that they enjoy and some may want to be a stay at home mother and so on. However, as women, we need to pick our own barometer of success and we should not be pressured into thinking that having a husband and children is the benchmark for all women.

Nic, I’m not complaining about being a single woman in my 30s. I’m very happy with my status. My article is about the pressure put on women to find a husband and produce children which is reinforced through popular culture. I do not like to be made to feel like a social pariah because I am not married and/or do not have children. I must spare a thought here for women who are married and want to have children but for whatever reason cannot reproduce. They also are subject to societal expectations and norms.

It’s so tiring being a woman. At a certain age, you are pressured because you don’t have a husband. Then you get married and you’re pressured because you haven’t produced a child. When you produce your first child, you are pressured into having a second child. But be careful, don’t produce too many children because society frowns upon that as well. When is it going to stop?

As I said, I enjoy escapism as much as the next person but if I was at the cinema and I had a choice between a movie like ‘Bride Wars’ or a movie that was about career women where their love interests were a side plot, I would pick the second movie. But the sad reality is that we don’t get a choice and whether this is due to a lack of demand, I can’t tell you.

At the end of the day, we are all make up society and in our own way, I’m sure we are all guilty of reinforcing stereotypes about the opposite sex. Just stop and think about that the next time you make a mindless comment about the opposite sex or ask someone about their personal life. Live is way to short to live up to other people’s expectations of you and you will die trying.

And thank you Audrey - best comment of the day

http://www.30isthenewblack.com

Maree says:

11:10am | 09/09/09

I knew mysognist Eric would be on here! haha :o) And sure enough, first post! He’s a continual laugh.
Anyway, great article Gillian. I have a lot of male friends who are quite obsessed with the idea of having a ‘girlfriend’. I not sure it’s something they talk to openly with their guy mates, but they talk to me about it all the time. I agree this attitude isn’t represented in the ‘bromance’ films out there. Whereas as you point out, women’s friendships and career take a beatseat in many mainstream movies centred on females.
I’m 24, have just started a new relationship with a wonderful guy, but I absolutely loved being single also. I love spending time with friends, family and focusing on my career. If this relationship works out, fantastic, but if it doesnt, I won’t be judging my life’s value on it. When I’m 30, I’ll look at the person I am, and the wonderful people in my life and judge my happiness on that, regardless of what pop culture tells me.
Hopefully, as more women enter producer, director, screen play type roles, there might be a better/fairer representation out there.

Voxpop says:

11:16am | 09/09/09

Crap Sally I’ve met so many incredibly selfish mothers it disgusts me.

If you choose to be a mother that’s great for you but it doesn’t make you *better* than a woman who chooses not to.

Solipsistic = egoistic, self absorbed
Bullshit a lot of childless women are out there involving themselves in bigger things than whose kid is ranking highest at sport etc.

Ben says:

11:18am | 09/09/09

Idealised and often unachievable versions of appearance and lifestyle have been endemic to art and popular culture throughout history. It seems to be an ingrained human instinct.
Bridgit I think you have a point about marriage although your view of the historical bleakness of relations between men and women is overstated. In my women continue to be unfairly discriminate against in many ways, but to assert that the majority of relationships over thousands of years were as hideous as you summise doesn’t ring true.
Are our expectations of long term relationships so unrealistic that the relationships themselves collapse under their weight?

miles says:

11:21am | 09/09/09

nice article, but just a thought
(and one i understand you may not have noticed on account of watching so many trashy rom-coms
but for every ‘hugh grant’ character portraying men as eligible bachelors on film, there are a dozen others showing men murdering, raping and pillaging their way through life
talk about pressure…

Caz says:

11:29am | 09/09/09

“It’s so tiring being a woman. At a certain age, you are pressured because you don’t have a husband. Then you get married and you’re pressured because you haven’t produced a child. When you produce your first child, you are pressured into having a second child. But be careful, don’t produce too many children because society frowns upon that as well. When is it going to stop?”

The thing is whilst there are differences between the pressures put on men and women EVERYONE must bear them. I know plenty of men who struggle with idenity and success today and in a way there seems to be a massive void and lack of support or understanding for them. I believe women go through a lot but like you said - there are usually voices that counter-act the things we women don’t like. But I think there is a lot less support in mainstream media for the issues men face. Men too want wives and families and are also expected to be money earners. Women put a LOT of pressure on men to be of a certain standard and yet it’s all unspoken… there are no pop songs in support or defiance for these roles. It’s just SO ingrained it’s hardly noticeable.

I guess my point is that while we moan about the pressures society put on women to fit certain moulds - I think these moulds are everywhere for every gender, class and race and as such we just need to try and embrace diversity and support ALL people. Yes… even Eric who is a ranting troll that everybody laughs at. Even he needs a bit of love and support from the rest of us sometimes.

Sally says:

11:32am | 09/09/09

True Voxpop, and I knew I made a sweeping generalisation in the previous post. All I am saying is that the neurotic stereotype of the single woman in her mid-late thirties has some element of truth to it.

MarK says:

11:41am | 09/09/09

The Lily allen song, Well her “life” consists of tarting it up at a nightclub everynight and expecting somone else to pick up the tab, and now that window has passed. Her Choice, Rather than going out and actually making something of her life, she was betting the kitchen sink on getting saved by a knight in shining armour, Her choice. I thought the message Lilly allen was trying to say was, maybe this isnt the best idea, dont avoid a career and bet the farm on finding some rich hubbie.

Jimbo Jones says:

11:58am | 09/09/09

‘Popular culture is like a low priced hooker on a slow night, it’s cheap’ - I don’t know about that, JB HiFi DVD prices are scaling the same heights as a ticket to the theatre these days (22 ep US TV series folks, not the $9.99 DVD bin). Always found Lilly Allen ‘winsome’ (read - boring) and the lyrics of her songs would seem to confirm that (call Lady Gaga the byproduct of sexist fetishism if you will but the lady is damn entertaining that’s for sure).  Male representation in media is no better (they may get the better parts with more substance but they’re often playing neanderthals or then there’s the dread guy-flicks… I refuse to use the word b—mance).  Katherine Heigl is a bizarre anomaly, someone who rants about equality this and that and then works in the most dreadful garbage imaginable (knocked up - c’mon, it was a total disgrace).  And as for worst-category female representation (from a decidely hetero male perspective) try Sex and the City… yup, I feel a flame war comin’ on.  It’s appalling (but worse still are the women who actually believe that by emulating their SATC hero’s they’ll someone bag themselves a Mr Big of their own… I got news for ya’ sister, most self respecting men would prefer a night in with a copy of the first season of The Shield than suffer the shrill advances of a lass wearing what appears to be a pink shower curtain topped off with penetratingly ugly Gucci shades… blech!).  I’ll stop ranting now…

bella says:

11:58am | 09/09/09

Mark is right. You completely missed the point of the song, maybe that says more about your insecurities than anything else.

Voxpop says:

12:06pm | 09/09/09

Sally the sterotype you propose has about as much justification as the sterotype that women who have children are emotionally needy and have kids so that they will have someone who’s dependant on them and will love them unconditionally.
They’re both sweeping generalisations and yes you may be able to find people from both sides to satisfy but all it does is set us against each other.
It’s the same as Eric seeing feminism as all bad and pitting female against male - you are pitting female with child against female without.
It’s the same old arguments - when one side gets support the other bleats about the negative instead of walking in another’s shoes and trying to understand where they come from so that society is all inclusive.
For me the word feminist is outdated but I certainly appreciate all of those women that came before us to fight for the equality we have today.  I’m very happy to be an independant woman pushing 40 that never had anyone pressure me to marry someone or to have kids and I enjoy my career and lifestyle - BTW I do have a wonderful BF but don’t pin my self worth on a relationship.  I can applaud a woman’s right to choose whichever direction she wants to take in life.  And Eric I can also see the need for better support for men’s issues - there doesn’t have to be hate between opposing interests when the interests are for all to be fair and equitable.

Emma M says:

12:08pm | 09/09/09

Interesting piece, Gillian.Keep them coming.
I do like Lily Allen - not least because of her ability to stir up debate.
As a married, working woman I’ve fortunately been spared much of the pressures mentioned - even the having children one. Apart from not-too-subtle hints about being the kind of wife my father-in-law thinks I should be, that is. But my single friends do indicate there’s little reprieve in the suggestions they shack up and birth a tribe.
I wonder if the portrayal of single 30-something women in pop culture is in part due to laziness? The stereotypes are well entrenched and it’s so easy for creators to just go with the stereotype everyone can recognise.
For films, I liked Swimming Pool, where a woman in her 40s (I think) gets her career back on track, discovers her sexuality and tells her moron boyfriend to take a hike. There’s also Waitress, where marriage is far from the dream rom-coms make it out to be.

Eric says:

12:13pm | 09/09/09

Voxpop: No, there doesn’t need to be hate between men’s and women’s interests. Yet, whenever I raise the issue of men’s interests, I cop hate from the Cazzes and Marees of the world.

If feminists weren’t so hostile to men, I wouldn’t be so hostile to them. But they see gender politics as a zero-sum game, where women can only progress by putting down men. And I don’t like that.

Kel says:

12:14pm | 09/09/09

You make some good points Jimbo Jones! Although, I tend to side with anyone who hates ‘Knocked Up’ as much as me.

Maree says:

12:30pm | 09/09/09

I didn’t give you hate Eric, I said you’re a continual laugh, which you are.
I’m all for men’s interests as well as women’s, I mentioned men’s interests in my post, well at least, the interests of men I’m friends with. I’ve seen you on the website so often though, missing the point of the article, and trying to stir a men v women thing. As I said, I find it a laugh, but others would find it quite sad I imagine.
Jimbo Jones - you make some fair points. And I agree completely regarding ‘knocked up’. That movie does both men & women no favours!

Chloe says:

12:41pm | 09/09/09

“And don’t get me started on hip hop and rap songs and their portrayal of women. That is a whole other post.”

Really? Why? I suppose it depends on what you define as ‘hip hop’. Whilst misogyny in hip hop is definitely present, it’s presence is very much felt in pretty much every genre of music, maybe bar classical. I suggest you listen to ‘Beautiful Skin’ by Goodie Mob, or better still maybe acquaint yourself with some of the ‘leaders’ of the genre, the pioneers of hip hop - who also happen to be female, a la MC Lyte, Lauryn Hill etc. - this sweeping tendency by the media of stereotyping all hip hop as sexist is a joke.

Caz says:

12:45pm | 09/09/09

Hey what? I never sent you hate Eric - you must not have read my last post where i stood up for you and men too. I even gave you a gold star! Where has all the love gone?

Michael Praetorius says:

12:48pm | 09/09/09

I wonder how many of these women in their 30s who are supposedly terrified of a boyfriend-less existence will nevertheless place notices on their dating profile that they do not wish to be contracted by men over 50? The basic problem is an obsession with youth as an end in itself, resulting in age becoming the single most prominent feature of any person’s public persona. For example, newspaper articles routinely name the age of the person they are referring to but not their height, weight race or indeed any other personal characteristic. Only when we stop defining ourselves and others chronologicaly (as the song “22” obviously does) will older men and women alike no longer feel labelled as failures simply by virtue of their age.

Voxpop says:

12:55pm | 09/09/09

But Eric you play the game that you say *feminists* are playing - hostility.  If you want to raise concerns about mens issues you WILL get support from women (me for one and most other women I know) - it’s just how you frame your arguments.  But you can be a bit OTT at times, would it be so hard to just agree on some minor points like for example that a woman doing the same job as a man with same qualifications deserves same pay - it’s a no brainer if like I said the interests are for all to be fair and equitable.  Then you could continue with taking it off topic and have your concerns aired about other issues and I bet you’d get support. 

The only reason you cop it (and I’m guilty of this) is that you go out of your way to bait and be hostile so many of us react to something we find offensive - just like I reacted to Sally.
Eric we are all shaped by our experiences and blogs are notorious for heated debate but I’m trying much more to be reasoned in my comments while trying to get my point across - I think I’ve seen a bit more of that from you also.

ihmn says:

01:02pm | 09/09/09

I like Lily Allen and I don’t think that she puts as much serious thought into her songs as everyone seems to think. In the song “It’s not fair” she sings about an unimpressive sexual experience and now she has said she wished she didn’t because its stopping guys from sleeping with her in case she sings about it. Personally I think she probably writes songs as soon as the idea pops into her head, rather than thinking about all the different meanings and messages we might pin to it afterwards.

Eric says:

01:35pm | 09/09/09

Well, Voxpop, I have to admit that I do like to be provocative. But I usually start with a point of discussion rather than personal abuse—though I am willing to respond in kind when attacked.

But my comments are a reaction to the prevailing atmosphere. I’ve lived through four decades of feminist attacks against men, which are the mainstream now. And men don’t have much of a voice.

Just look at The Punch—dozens of articles about women’s issues, women’s needs, and how bad men are. Even this one, where the fact that men make a lot of movies is somehow responsible for women feeling bad about being single.

Yet, not once do I recall seeing even one little article on The Punch about the problems faced by men. Is it any wonder I’m frustrated?

Now maybe if we can get past the accusations of misogyny and insanity and violence—all of which have been baselessly posted against me on this website—maybe we can have a decent discussion. Let’s talk issues, not bash people.

Voxpop says:

02:14pm | 09/09/09

Eric in some ways you actually end up contributing to The Punch writing more articles about women’s issues - by commenting back and forth it increases their hit ratio and so they think well this gets em going we’ll write some more.  A lot of these topics wouldn’t attract so many comments if you and others weren’t baiting people and giving it more mileage.

I suggest that you hijack one of the weekly Open Threads and highlight in all seriousness some of the issues and problems you want attention for.  I’ll pop in for support and you may even surprise yourself at how much interst it generates.  The usual open thread usually only gets 1 or 2 comments so you’ll be way out in front and maybe The Punch will recognise the need for more men’s business.

Raddy says:

02:27pm | 09/09/09

mmmmm…Chloe…...

Much respect to Ms Hill, Mary J Blidge…...but pioneer sof Hip - Hop?????.... try Public Enemy, De La Soul, Run-DMC,  Dj Africa Bambataaa…..

Heidi McElnea says:

02:37pm | 09/09/09

MORE NALLETAMBY!

Eric says:

02:38pm | 09/09/09

Voxpop, I’m pretty sure that all the women’s issues articles would continue even without my input. My gripe is not that they exist, but that many of them blame men and that there are no men’s issues articles at all.

I might just try your suggestion with an open thread, though. I’m not sure that many people even read those threads, but I won’t know until I try.

Shama says:

02:51pm | 09/09/09

As a 30 something and content single woman I fail to see what the problem is.  OK Lily Allen sang a song.  Maybe she thinks being 30 and without a man and a career is awful. It’s a point of view. There are other points of view out there - just a day back there was a debate on Gillard for e.g, women in the popular eye are hardly one dimensional these days.  I honestly think this is a self-perpetuating circle. Pop star writes song, serious female columnist jumps on it and beomans representations of women in pop culture. And so on till these supposedly “serious” pieces become as boring as the pop song. 

Heigl made The Ugly Truth because women like chick flicks and there is money in it. Just like men who wouldn’t hurt a fly make testosterone fuelled flicks because there is money in it.  Once people stop watching The Ugly Truth Heigl will move on.

I never agree with Eric but he is right here.  There are certain themes which keep recurring in popular culture because they touch on deep seated needs.  And e.g. is of 40 something person (man or woman) having a successful career who returns home and rediscovers roots and a simpler life.  It may well be that one is actually happy with one’s high powered life and bored shit by home.  But it seems pointless to attack this and claim it is against people for whom happiness lies in professional satisfaction and how it is so hard for such a person etc.  And representations of men are equally skewed (see ads with inept men).

Might also help to read Nehring’s A Vindication of Love.  Needy and desperate in love men write about it and its considered art. Needy and desperate woman writes pop song and is promptly seen as misogynist.  It might be that the next stage of feminism is to embrace these aspects and going beyond the “I can do without a man” phase.

Jayne says:

03:00pm | 09/09/09

While your article has some good points I think you’ve taken Lily Allens song in completely the wrong way. Since when will she realise she’s ‘society’? She has chosen a career where she can influence a huge range of people with her lyrics and I think this song is trying to send the same message that you are. In case you haven’t noticed the majority of her songs are very tongue in cheek.
You wouldn’t have even written this article if her song hadn’t raised the topic and see how many people are discussing it now?
We’re all society.

Study says:

03:04pm | 09/09/09

For every woman that says she is happy and independent on her own there are 5 desperately trawling bars and RSVP looking for a husband.

What men do you know who have a biological clock and “finding someone” play on their minds? I’m not, nor are any one of my friends or work colleagues. Many of us couldn’t care less and would be interested in quality only but don’t care when or if it comes. Maybe you should stop hanging around emotionally insecure spineless beta males.

Your use of Kelly Clarkson, Pink, Destiny’s Child et al is laughable. They are desperate over-rated untalented raunch culture drivel peddled to the masses in order to make a buck for a music company. They are puppets. Not musicians or anyone with any credibility to talk about being independent.

Gillian says:

03:50pm | 09/09/09

First of all, Eric please keep on commenting on my posts. I enjoy your feedback and I do understand that men are not always treated fairly in society. I made a comment at the start that I also don’t agree with man hating songs and movies that disparage men or incidentally violent movies Miles! I also think men are hard done by the Family Court and just because I’m an advocate of women’s rights, doesn’t mean that I’m not an advocate of men’s rights. One does not cancel out the other.

I didn’t realise that Michael had a monopoly on interpreting songs Bella and neither do I for that matter but I did not get the distinct impression that Lily Allen was encouraging women to pursue a career instead of motherhood. And when did the option to change your career stop at age 30 anyway? That is also very limiting. I changed my career in my 30s. I’m not suggesting Lily Allen meant any harm by her lyrics, in fact I don’t think she thinks much about it at all and the messages she is sending to the public. What I am saying is that these artists can use their power and influence the public in a more positive manner. Jimbo Jones, when I mean cheap, I was speaking metaphorically! And Chloe, you are right and not all hip hop or RnB for that matter belittle women just as not every movie stereotypes women and Mary J Bligh is one of the artists I mentioned.
Michael Praetorius, of course we’re terrified! A successful woman can walk into a party and talk about her achievements but reduced to nothing because she does not have a partner.

One of the point I was trying to make is to think about how you in your everyday life contribute to stereotypes and readjust your thinking. I’m not about to argue with Mother Nature, women’s biological clock does start to decline with age but age is nothing but a number. Don’t limit yourself and more importantly don’t limited others by your sterotypical and judgemental view of the world.

http://www.30isthenewblack.com

Pete Davies says:

04:17pm | 09/09/09

Gillian nowhere did I hear you mention that for the most part, pop culture is manufactured to sell like Mars Bars or to bookend advertising. Nothing else. It’s like looking for identity or meaning in an ad or an illusionary magic show. It’s not cruel*, certain people want to manipulate your emotions to make you feel insecure (amongst other things) to make you buy stuff. Alternatively, there is a whole other collection of womens storys, archetypes etc in foreign film and on the net.

Student says:

04:36pm | 09/09/09

Stereotypes exist because there is a critical mass of people that fall into the stereotype to a large enough degree.

When analysing something/people there is little time or scope to go to a deep level unless it is someone you have chosen to have extremely deep relations with. We only know someone on a superficial level. Humans don’t have the capacity for any further depth with such a large population. It is this level that fits the steretype.

One bleating person raving about how extremely different and unique she is from everyone is no different from a similar person saying the same thing. Just like one divisive commenter is the same as another. They just start sounding the same.

Eric says:

04:55pm | 09/09/09

Thank you, Gillian.

Chloe says:

05:32pm | 09/09/09

Thanks Raddy.
Well acquainted with all of those artists, but when speaking about the pioneers of hip hop I think MC Kool Herc would probably precede most of your mentioned artists, and all that you did mention were, last time I checked, male-  which kind of destroys the point about women creating hip hop too.

bella says:

05:34pm | 09/09/09

You know what Gillian, Lilly Allen isn’t actually singing to you (although she might be singing about you). As someone in her target demographic let me tell you that the entire record has elements of tongue in cheek.

Saying that she is reinforcing ideas about 30 something single women (rather than subverting conventional wisdom of some ill-informed 20 somethings) is like saying that ‘The Fear’ was an honest reprentation of Lilly Allen’s life philosophy.

It’s called satire!

She isn’t saying that you should have a career and not motherhood nor is she saying that you can’t get your act together and make a career for yourself in your thirties (although it would be a lot harder the later you leave it). She is saying don’t wait around for someone else to support you/look after you/make you happy cos it might never happen.

I don’t normally like of ‘get’ top 40 pop music. I don’t undertand the point of pink, lady gaga etc. But at least Lilly Allen is someone who does think about her music and does help positively influence young women with humour and satire and by holding a mirror up to the foibles of being a young woman today (possibly not with her behaviour, mind you).

Mike Jones says:

05:36pm | 09/09/09

You’re gorgeous Gillian, how on earth can you be single?

Raddy says:

06:27pm | 09/09/09

Yeah Chloe…MC Kool Herc Herc is “mos def” ( chuckle chuckle)....a pioneer but I would argue Hip-Hop comes from a more male perspective especially in the 80’s…..with its angst, male bravado, “projects” culture,.....but Mary J, Ms Hill will alwyas have my respect…...its a shame that the HIP-HOP culture is link to the more Top 40 ( Soldier Boy….WTF is that!!!!)....crap…

You dont know…..now you know…...

Ash Simmonds says:

07:22pm | 09/09/09

I think maybe you’re just putting too much weight on what other people think - the same other people who have an equal number of vacuous and unimportant opinions about everyone else too.

Sure, you don’t want to be hated, but just accept it’s too difficult to be approved of by everybody, do as you please and spend time with those who please you. 

Too often we hear people trying to convince others of their state despite their status - “I’m fat but like my body”, “I’m single but happy”, “I’m poor but content”, etc etc - I’m not saying any of these aren’t true - but those who spout empowerment (Pink songs etc) just appear desperate to convince others, or perhaps themselves.

Forget what anyone else except those who truly make a difference to your life think of you and what you do, would rather be respected for being true to yourself than liked for being someone you’re not.

Nik says:

08:47pm | 09/09/09

You are so powerfull when you express your ideas in your articles, that I can feel the words going in fire while reading them.

Sadhbh says:

11:03am | 10/09/09

Just wait until all the she hits 30 and realises how awesome your thirties actually are, whether you are single or loved up.

dan says:

02:05pm | 10/09/09

Well I’m a male in the same boat.  But let me give you 2 points - perhaps 3 or 4 that I’m all too aware of.
1.  Life is not fair
2.  Grass is always greener on the other side
3.  Are you the type of person that the type of person you are after would be after?
Unfortunately women (not necessarily you) in their 30’s have the problem of not being as desirable as younger women - which is coupled to the idea that women can date older men so easily younger men, This is not a problem created by men alone.  It is capitalized on and leveraged by younger women. From the 15yr old girl who dates the guy with a car to the 25 yr old woman who marries the relatively successful (and mentally together/goal orientated/ready to settle down) 29yr old man. 
There is a flip side to every equation and trends built on stereotypes cannot go both ways.  I am not saying you were the 15yr old dating the older guy with the car - but the option was more available to you than the 15yr old boy dating the university girl.  This stereotype is simply the reverse of what you feel you face today.  In reality you should consider yourself a singular not as part of a statistical model. 
Ohh…and I’ve never encountered a male say he finds women in general “emotionally needy”, we like that complimentary side to a partner.  (I’m emotionally needy myself)

Daniel says:

02:24pm | 10/09/09

Mike Jones says: 04:36pm | 09/09/09
You’re gorgeous Gillian, how on earth can you be single?

Wow….I didn’t know Gillian was single because everyone thought she was ugly.  I thought it was because for whatever reason she hadn’t found the right chemistry with a guy (or she liked being single)

Lonard says:

02:58pm | 10/09/09

Two things
How come you reference Pink alongside Mariah Carey and Kelly Clarkson?Isn’t she a dyke who is very much opposed to hip hop and rap homies and their portrayal of women?

Lily Allen hit the nail on the head… woman over 30 are all damsels in distress waiting to be rescued by us blokes, albeit in your case a damsel in denial. It’s human nature, sorry Gillian - call me.

Maria says:

04:52pm | 11/09/09

Lonard, men like you are the reason why women in their 30s are single. Obviously you don’t have much experience with 30 something women because the ones that I know are far from being damsels in distress or damsels in denial. As women get older, they become more discerning and selective so if you think a single 30 something is an easy lay, think again. More 20 something women are likely to be insecure and unsure of their place in the world.  In fact, I don’t know any women in their 30s who fit the stereotype depicted in popular culture.

And this is what I’m getting from this article that while there may be women in their 30s who are neurotic and desperate, there are more 30 something women are strong and independent and whose lives aren’t ruled by the biological clock and accept that if they don’t meet the right person, that they will remain single or have a child by other means.

I’m not getting the satire from Lily Allen’s song either. At the end of the day, you can regurgitate a media release or a review and say it’s satire but as Gillian says, it’s up to your individual interpretation of the song. ‘22’ doesn’t leave me thinking that it’s Lily Allen’s taking a shot at the way women are being portrayed in popular culture. All it makes me feel is that she’s perpetuating the stereotype of a woman in her 30s who feels sad and washed up because she doesn’t have a boyfriend or career with lyrics like “She’s got an alright job but it’s not a career. Wherever she thinks about it, it brings her to tears. Cause all she wants is a boyfriend. She gets one-night stands.” In my humble opinion, this isn’t really empowering women. I’ve listen to the album and most of it is tongue-in-cheek so it may have been an attempt at satire but the execution let the song down. Anyway, that’s just used as an example in the article anyway as is hip hop. There are so many other examples of the poor portrayal of women in popular culture.

Good article. Can’t wait to read the next one!

Gillian (the other one) says:

05:59pm | 11/09/09

I happen to think Gillian’s interpretation is spot on but whether or not Lily Allen’s song is satirical isn’t really the point. Whichever way you look at it I reckon she’s saying we live in a pronatalist society (like that word?) - one that puts pressure on women, especially those in their thirties, to get hitched and procreate.  Whether you just don’t want to or you can’t doesn’t make much difference, ‘cos the pressure’s there, either in your face or innuendo.
Maybe the song’s so subtle it’s a realistic mixture of sadness and satire - a bit like life. Great article Gillian - give us more!