Turnbull experiment is over - are the Libs over too?

stephen says:

06:09am | 27/11/09

“Anus burger and nuggets please.”
“A WHAT ?”

RT says:

06:17am | 27/11/09

If the likes of Tony Abbott, Minchin, Eric Abetz, Bronwyn Bishop and Sophie Mirabella get the upper hand it’s hard to see the Liberals getting much support beyond rusted on supporters of the kind that flock to The Punch with comments. Labor could win by 20 seats or more. Good. I want a sensible opposition with forward looking people. It will take an election wipeout to force the Libs to rebuild into a modern party with ideas for the 21st century.

Dan says:

06:27am | 27/11/09

While I have no sympathy for the Liberal party at all, and I would love it if they spent decades out of power, I do like Turnbull and I really feel for him in this situation. He’s trying to do the right thing, and electorally as well, and his so-called colleagues have knifed him in the back.

Minchin is a joke, he really should go the way of Costello. If Abbott or (god help us) Andrews become leader, I hope that the Liberals never get back into power.

Eric says:

06:41am | 27/11/09

What a load of tosh. The allegedly “divisive” Howard government was triumphant for twelve years, and eventually succumbed to the electorate’s boredom with its own longevity. The Liberals will not be elected as long as they try to be Labor Lite.

It doesn’t matter who the leader is or what the policies, Rudd will gain a second term. It’s the third election that will be interesting.

And “political terrorism”? Puh-lease.

Just because journalists love the Left, that doesn’t mean the rest of us do. Over a decade of Howard success demonstrates that.

Speak up says:

07:01am | 27/11/09

Dressing up belligerent ignorance and personal spite with deliberately misleading distortions,  the lunatic extreme right now holds a once-great Party and our wonderful country to ransome.

These fools, running a small and very vocal fear campaign of the most dishonest kind, will attempt to justify their betrayal of Party and Policy with a lot of fluff about “principle” and “arrogance”. But their Party took an ETS to the people at the 2007 election;  and after long and spineless delay,  hammered out (in good faith or so they said) a revised ETS very like their own.

Now we know what “good faith” and party policy count for in the Liberal Party of the uber-right. Nothing.  The religious fervour of this band of incompetent, spitefully ignorant witch-hunters in their crusade against reason and compromise looks and smells like the last gifts of Hanson and Howard - the very worst of each.

We are watching the deliberate assassination of the Liberal Party, and all moderate, constructive Liberal policy with it, from within. What will this great tide of fervid, febrile, false, fatuous “principle” achieve? Will it halt climate change or the passage of an ETS scheme? It will not.

It will achieve on thing only. The utter destruction of both the Liberal Party and the National Party at the polling booth. The electoral abyss beckons.

watty says:

07:36am | 27/11/09

My memory MUST be shot.

Didn’t the Conservatives just retake W.A.? Didn’t the CLP in the N.T stop holding Party meetings in the phone box in Smith Street and fall one short of being in Government.

Never saw the Keating attempts to dethrone Hawke (successful at second go) referred to as ‘political terrorism” nor even the less than savoury removals of Crean,Beazlery or even Latham whilst Labor was in OppositioTurnbull “the Party’s most substantial man” who has Kevin Andrews winning 35 votes in the Party Room.

Take the blinkers off Mr Kenny.From his early days as Packer’s lawyer through the mess he made of the Republican
movement, to his treatment of the sitting member in Wntworth Peter King to his immediate attack on Howard following the election defeat I would suggest that “substantial” might apply to his girth but not his loyalt nor political integrity.

Colin Campbell says:

07:54am | 27/11/09

Very entertaining for everyone except Malcolm.

Michael says:

08:19am | 27/11/09

“probably condemned their own party to a lengthy period in the wilderness of opposition.” good the party that brought us workchoices deserves nothing but the contempt of the people and a long stay on the bench, I don’t care if rudd takes us to war with NZ, so long as the people that tried to destroy workers rights, just before the GFC are kept out of control as long as possible.

Paul Prentice says:

08:27am | 27/11/09

Turnbull is labor infiltrator ,has never been playing ball for the liberal party ,he is a trator to the Australian people both Rudd and co.and Turnbull should be charged with treason..

Daniel says:

08:32am | 27/11/09

God I hope the Librals are over.

acker says:

08:51am | 27/11/09

Early March 2010 ..Double Dissolution Election
Early May 2010 ...34 Labor Senators, 6 Green Senators and possibly 3 Independent Senators (N.Xenophon, M.Ronaldson and G Humphries)

Vote yes an ETS and defeat ....31 Liberal Senators and 4 National Senators

And the ETS package they vote on becomes a lot Greener than the one getting voted on today..

shabangabang says:

09:14am | 27/11/09

What are the chances of the Libs splitting up to create a centre-right liberal party and a right wing conservative party? No way the Nats would want anything to do with either of them so would go it alone. In the end its one big success for Labor.

Charles says:

09:23am | 27/11/09

Just the start of the real Liberal party today.  Once the public realises what a con Rudd, Wong and Turnbull have tried to pull, they will become the new ‘Untouchables’.

Mr Kenny showsa similar ignorance to the AGW and ETS that most of his fellow journalists do.  What chance of them doing some reading up of the issue, and trying not be so obvious with their group thinking.

crizza says:

09:23am | 27/11/09

the “rebels” are saying they’re inundated with calls from liberal voters saying they’ll never vote liberal again. who, pray tell, will the vote for? Rudd? Or are the Nationals going to start running candidates in the cities. There’s always the shooters party, i suppose.

Napolean says:

09:29am | 27/11/09

Shut up everyone. Don’t interrupt the enemy when they are making a mistake!

monkeytypist says:

09:33am | 27/11/09

I give the Liberal Party of Austraila an even chance of dissolving if Turnbull gets rolled.  The right would probably federate with the Nats.

Jane says:

09:33am | 27/11/09

Get a clue Kenny…you wish.
Bang on Eric - correct.
The leftist ‘Turnbull experiment’ HAS indeed failed. The ‘rebels’ are not the core Liberals who sucessfully ran this country for 12 years…but those who pannicked and over-reacted to distance itself from all things Liberal after the election defeat. ...trying to appeal to the left vote with Turnbull….throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

It’s over-reactive again to think (and hope for some) that the Liberal Party is ‘finished’. Get a grip. This show of responsibility towards constituents/ it’s core supporters and all Australians by standing up and revoking a fundamental failure like this Labor ETS sham is what will be the beginning of the correction needed and a hiatus that will get it back on track.

brian k of Qld says:

09:33am | 27/11/09

Political terrorism? Methinks Mark Kenny’s pro Labor slip is showing.

noelle says:

09:41am | 27/11/09

quite right - the libs will be absolutely irrelevant if this plays out as it seems.  malcolm turnbull is head and shoulders above the rabble - but i doubt he will hang around after the demise.  a great shame because he is a man of character and spine - two traits sadly lacking in most of his so-called colleagues.

Troppo says:

09:46am | 27/11/09

I do think we should takes steps to reduce out carbon emissions…...BUT ....i don;t think and laws should be passed until after the Copenhagen Meeting. Lets see what the rest of the world is committed to before we have to pay money to reduce our quality of life. Turnbull fails to have the wisdom and insight to understand that we just want it held off until the rest of the world comes to the party, but it seems that Turnbull is hell bent on Rudds ridiculous desire for global governance, Rudd is the one to blame here and Turnbull supporting him before we know what the big polluters in this world are goingto do is not part of his duty to his constituents.

Diamantina Bill says:

09:46am | 27/11/09

Political terroism at it’s best - the Liberals at their worst - Imagine the scene over the weekend, There will be more knives being sharpened than on a busy day at the “abbot” toir !! - Old Malcom “The Pin Cushion” Turnbull better have good health insurance and a few units of blood on hand because by the time Lucy pulls the knives out of his back he will be nothing but a shadow of his former self - Watch the Libs slide to the right and self destruct into a mob of raving idiots, wait, never mind - just slide to the right, they have already ready taken care of the last point. Abbott = the world is flat and darwin was wrong - back to the 1950s for the Libs next week

Greg says:

09:47am | 27/11/09

To all the ignorant fools that rant about workchoices and before that the GST. That legislation was passed in the senate for what it was: IR and a tax. Rudd and his mate Turnbull are trying to pass a tax into legislation dressed up as an environmental bill. I wonder how many people would support this if it was called the “middle Australia carbon TAX”.

harry says:

09:55am | 27/11/09

I think Mark Kenny is related to Kevin Rudd or somehow escaped from the local communist party room…kev must have left the door unlocked…

Kim says:

09:59am | 27/11/09

Turnbull is the only one who can lead the Libs, if he he goes goodbye Libs. If Abbott becomes the new leader surrounded by his Howardites then who on earth would vote for them. Who wants someone who wanted to be a priest running the country!

H of SA says:

10:00am | 27/11/09

Indeed, the perception the Liberal’s think the electorate is stupid is a real problem for them.

Stand up says:

10:01am | 27/11/09

Dear Mr Turnbull,
Many thanks for your efforts to make some constructive progress on the biggest issues of our time. For once, I find myslef in complete agreement with you position this morning.

Please hold firm against the ill-concieved smears of the hard right professional wreckers, and pass that Bill this afternoon. You country needs you.

james Hunter says:

10:04am | 27/11/09

I feel helpless as a mostly labour voter i admire turnbull and feel that the ets is a mistake before some decission internationally. so both parties have it wrong there is no third alternative and god help everyone if abbot whi is a prude and a biggot and part of the bible mafia evwer has any power. maybe as some commented the shooters party so at least honest people can get their guns back and not just the criminals

mountcross says:

10:15am | 27/11/09

Turnbull brought this on himself what with his appalling behavior re Utegate - what an amateur he is !

Muzz says:

10:27am | 27/11/09

mountcross - alot of you people still like to go back to utegate. Rudd may have won on that one but he was far from innocent, and neither was Swan.  Turnbull used the wrong tactic. I’m sure he learnt from that experience and his performance has improved especially lately.

Carl Palmer says:

10:34am | 27/11/09

What a load of nonsense. Just over 50% of his party supports his position. Ok, General MT is leading his troops to war and only 50+% supports him. Yeah right! Victory is assured? Slaughtered is the word that comes to mind.

With MT at the helm, the party is going nowhere and it will continue to implode. The fact that this matter can’t and doesn’t go away is a reflection on MT’s ability to unite and lead the party. From political perspective, he has played this out very poorly.  Dead man walking.

Lord Monckton says:

10:36am | 27/11/09

Plainly the Liberal far Right has been infiltrated by the Communist Party.

Godwin says:

10:42am | 27/11/09

Utegate? And who was hand in glove with Mr Grech, eh? Senator Abetz. What short memories some of you dolts have.

Alex says:

10:53am | 27/11/09

So how does publicly undermining your party and its leader when you didn’t have the guts to force a spill make you a better candidate. You are all fools.  I don’t think you remember that the far right ideals were voted out at the last election. If an ETS is not implemented now, it will cost more down the track when the rest of the world has already done so. The dissenters are not even saying they want it delayed until after Copenhagen. They are against it outright! Malcolm now is your chance to shine. Stare them all down and expose them as frauds!!!!!

Former Liberal says:

10:54am | 27/11/09

Mr Howard cost the Liberal Party my support some time ago. Mr Turnbull’s stand against malice and ignorance is very commendable and very necessary. If he can get the ETS passed, I shall vote for a Party led by him at the next election.

I could never support a Party led by the treacherous creatures who emerged from the shadows of the far Right night this week. Their malice, ill-intent and dishonesty is palpable.

Kelly says:

10:59am | 27/11/09

Godwin -Senator Abetz has been cleared haven’t you been watching the news!

Susan says:

11:04am | 27/11/09

Oh Muzz, you make me laugh! Did you not see the emails released by the inquiry into Utegate that showed the only car dealer getting preferential treatment was actually a LIBERAL supporter?! Turnbull is almost lucky that all the ETS stuff has meant the findings of said inquiry have been buried under all the other news…

I like Turnbull, at least relative to the others, and I think that other contenders being suggested would be more popular with rusted-on Liberals but disastrous with the general voting population.

My big prediction - if he keeps his head down for the next couple of years I’m calling Paul Fletcher, current candidate for Bradfield, as the next Liberal PM (albeit not til at least 2016). Almost as smart as Turnbull but more modest, and spent some years working as neither a lawyer nor political staffer so he has “real world” credibility that many others lack. Certainly none of the current mob have the goods for mine.

George says:

11:05am | 27/11/09

Headline:
Foot in mouth disease declared epidemic and continues to spread through Coalition and supporters.

Cure:
Try keeping your mouth shut.
If this dosen’t work try sticking to 1 foot.
If this dosen’t work use both feet and walk.

Nancy says:

11:14am | 27/11/09

You speak for the electorate? Have you read the emails the MP’s have received, tapped their phone lines? The MP’s have listened to the message they have received. Malcolm has ignored it.

John of Perth says:

11:16am | 27/11/09

Malcolm for the first time I do have to say that in this issue I support you.
You are the man of principle and God help you , you are the only salvation and credibility to the Opposition.
I am not Liberal voter , but must say due when due is needed.
If only you could be Labour Party leader things would be much better.
Abbott is Khama Sutra in politics.
I wish you best .

George says:

11:27am | 27/11/09

Who’s turn is it on the chopping block?
Joe or Tony?

Drew says:

11:30am | 27/11/09

The reason the powerbrokers want Hockey in place is because he is malleable and will do as instructed. Thats exactly what the Liberal Senators would love. Tony Abbott would be beyond their control, they will never install him for fear of losing control. Howard was roughly their equal, which worked pretty well I have to admit. Despite my dislike of the man he was an exemplary politician. Noone currently in the party is up to Howard’s standard.

Can you imagine the look on the crony Senator’s faces when they discovered Abbott was going to contest?? They must have soiled their dacks!

Godwin says:

11:36am | 27/11/09

Kelly plainly didn’t read Grech’s emails! Silly!

Randal says:

11:36am | 27/11/09

Nothing like quality journalism and I think it is safe to say that this article is nothing like quality journalism. Gosh, I nearly needed a hanky as I read about the evil betrayal of the lovable moderate Malcolm. Do your job Mark and report the facts, Turnbull has been disatrous for the Liberals, his approval ratings are through the floor and if his handling of the ‘utegate’ affair was not an example of his arrogance over brains, then the massive misreading of the will of his party room and the grass roots supporters of the Liberal party, followed by one of the most arrogant pressers in recent history declaring victory whilst a party laid in tatters was the confirmation that he is a man who puts himself ahead of the party. Turnbull will lose the job as he has failed as leader to represent the party, and instead thought only of what Malcolm wants and to hell with everybody else. He is not driven by principle, but ego and arrogance, traits more in common with the current Prime Minister and not that of the Liberal Party. If he had any principles he would immediately resign and spare the party further blood letting, but he won’t as his ego and arrogance will not let him… what is that old saying ‘pride comes before the fall”... well Malcolm that fall is coming and not a moment too soon. As for you Mark, wipe the tears, come Monday you will have a new Liberal leader to sprout your left wing hate at… you will be all smiles then!

Fibber says:

11:37am | 27/11/09

As if Nancy didn’t know its an orchestrated campaign by a band of malicious troglodytes. Eletorate be sloshed. What do we have, election by blog now is it? Legislate by email? Give us a bloody break.

dug says:

11:38am | 27/11/09

Mark Kenny once again a pro labor comment. How you are still employed as a balanced political commentator is beyond me.
How about acknowleding the fact that the ETS is crap, and finally the liberals have the courage to fight for something they believe in. Instead all of a sudden they are divisive because they dont bow down to bad policy and play me too politics.

Jane says:

11:44am | 27/11/09

LOL
Look at all the faux ‘new found’ Turnbull support here ruing the so-called ‘damage’ done to the Liberal Party. I’m sure you’re all reeeeeeally genuine and have the best interests of the Liberal Party at heart..NOT.
Pretty short memories of the days of the ALP in opposition…and it’s rotating door of leaders flirting with oblivion and irrelevance.
Give us a break…the pseudo ‘concern’ or exaggerated glee is not fooling anyone.

This fatally flawed Labor ETS is fundamentally wrong…..and has no resemblance to any positive influence on global emissions or AGW.  Why does it have to be rushed before Copenhagen? - Answer - for Rudd to be a big man on the world stage as the first to jump off the cliff…or the one to push his fellow countrymen off at any rate. Sacrificing us the the god of AGW. It’s a new expence/tax dressed up as environmentalism. Like most things Labor - a fraud. Kudos to those who have stood up in the Liberal Party and said so on behalf of a growing number who are realising this.

Today I renew my Liberal Party membership…and urge all those who have allowed theirs to slide and become unfinancial to do so as well.
Those who truly care for and support the Party from hereon will do so also.

Andrew Goff says:

11:46am | 27/11/09

This is more for the right than the left.

I am an non-aligned, politically neutral but engaged person.

The Liberal party will commit electoral suicide if they have Abbott or Andrews as leader. There is no way I, or any swinging voter, would vote for them in a blind fit. The effect is to push the party to the right of Family First and however vocal people on here might be, centrist Australia will not have a bar of it.

I actually fear for the future of Australia as, barring a miracle, there is no credible conservative political party I can vote for at the next election - however much Rudd annoys me and I think he is a do-nothing leader.

H of SA says:

12:12pm | 27/11/09

The Liberals just can’t seem to stop pressing the self destruct button. I didn’t mind the idea of them learning some hard electoral lessons for workchoices + spending public money on pro workchoices advertising. But this has gotten ridiculous.

We now have no vialble alternative government in Australia. They cannot even keep from destroying themselves, therefore they are not credible to run the nation.

This is tragic for Australia as a bad opposition = no competition = bad government. Rudd can do ALMOST ANYTHING, because even if he made drinking beer and watching cricket illegal we would still consider his party the best option to Govern.

To see Hockey, a man I considered the best of the Liberals by far reduced to considering leading a party that will knife him the minute he follows what he stands for and votes for an ETS, is a tragedy for him, for his party and for Australia.

Robert Wood says:

12:26pm | 27/11/09

What happened to the principles of democracy in the Liberal Party Room? If you are a member of a party you argue your position in caucus,come to a majority decision and then support that decision in the parliament and to the people of Australia. Robert Wood

mountcross says:

12:26pm | 27/11/09

@Muzz - out he goes Muzz - say goodbye to your Malcolm !

Kay says:

12:31pm | 27/11/09

Thank you Mr Turnbull, whether you stay to lead the Liberal Party or not it is your name that will be remembered in Australian history for your stance not the self-serving self-seeking back stabbers.  Well done, I am proud you are an Australian and an intelligent citizen of the world we live in.

John T says:

12:38pm | 27/11/09

All liberal supporters need to take a chill pill and have a good think.  Cast your minds back to the 1980’s, Peacock v Howard and you will see history repeating in sense.  Just consider these issues; Howard became a self fulfilling prophecy, by winning the senate he sowed the seeds of his own destruction.  Note, he is only the second incumbent PM to lose his seat.  The hallmark of a good leader is that they never leave the party in a worse state than when they assumed control.  Howard failed that test, and became a Henry the Second in playing one crown prince off against the other.  Recall Turnball’s tax reform essay that tried to usurp Costello, and how Howard anointed Turnball as Special Water Minister, after being in the house for a minute.  The Liberal Party is bigger than one any person, and Turnball is wrong in blaming the party for his own blind leadership ambitions that has destroyed his own goal of becoming PM.  The ETS in my mind is the perfect excuse to get rid of this imposter, because he simply does not have our party’s best interests at heart.  It is all about Malcolm.  In that sense, he is like Chairman Rudd.  It is not about the ETS, Economy, Education or Health, it is about how history will view Rudd, and like Orwell wrote in 1984, he will rewrite and reengineer it as he sees fit.  We are at war with Eurasia.  We have always been at war with Eurasia.  God Bless the Liberal Party!!

Bloodnok says:

12:44pm | 27/11/09

As the Liberal Party of Australia - my party - has reneged on its own 2007 election policy, betrayed its Leader, and is about to renege on an agreement worked up in good faith with the Government, I there fore propsoe as follows.

1. The Liberal party of Australia be dissolved forthwith and permanently.

2. All sitting members & senators to be to be dis-endorsed and declared Indpendents on the cross-benches until the ETS Bills pass.

3. Upon passage of the ETS bills, those previous Liberal members and senators to be dismissed from their seats and fresh by-elections held.

End of problem.

PS The old major hears from well-connected sources that indeed there is an orchestratedmass campaign of a small far right group in Qld. The odds are that Brough has a hand in it, though its getting well funded from somewhere, unstated. It’s a small group, quite extreme, and not at all representative.

Barb says:

01:13pm | 27/11/09

The Liberal Party will rise again, and then it will be morning in Australia once more.

And all they need to do is make the white working class realise that the Labour party is the party of multiculturalism, gay marriage, and atheism (not that there’s anything wrong with these things, it’s just politics). These issues make the average Australian voters’ stomach turn. Like in the USA, it’s the white working class who decide elections. Here they voted for Rudd because of Workchoices, but Rudd has done nothing to improve the workers situation. So they are ready to vote on culture once again. Most of the people I know in my marginal electorate are white, Christian Labour voters who don’t realise they’re voting for everything they don’t agree with. The Liberal Party needs to explain the political landscape to these grassroots people. Who cares if the Libs lose a few ultra-capitalists along the way.

It would be also worth explaining that the only reason Labour supports mass immigration is so it can get more votes and label Patriots as racist.

Ben Gray says:

01:19pm | 27/11/09

If this were one and a half elections ago, Mark Latham would just have been defeated and this article would be headlined “The ALP… is it over?”.
Pundits would have nothing to do if they didn’t get to predict the death of every party in a little bit of strife.
That doesn’t change the fact that this was some lazy-ass punidtry.

George says:

01:30pm | 27/11/09

News update:
Coalition supporters continue to change feet as ‘Foot In Mouth’ escalates out of control. Fears now mount that epidemic is uncureable as victims fail to follow recommened treatment. Researchers now suggest that new remedy may be the solution: ‘Removal of Head’. However warn about possible dire consequences as previous approach to this therapy has proven to exacerbate the condtion.

Robbo says:

01:34pm | 27/11/09

The Libs will never win an election with Turnbull as leader so what’s the point of keeping him in there?

watty says:

01:38pm | 27/11/09

Diamintina Bill seems to forget the assasination of Hayden, Keating putting Hawke out to pasture at the second attempt, the treatment of both Crean and Beazley,The bashing of Baldwin?

At leasr now the Coalition “sorry”  club,Fraser and Hewson shouls have another multi millionaire join them in a few days.

Rumour has it that Malcolm has been lined up by SKY Agenda to appear as an “expert” on Liberal politics.

Tosher says:

01:44pm | 27/11/09

What a load of tosh B Gray peddles in attempting a diversion. The Latham affair was as neat & quick as a glad-wrapped school sambo next to this long, toxic, ferment of factions, spite, bad faith and down right rotten fibs.

George says:

01:57pm | 27/11/09

Knock Knock…
Who’s there?
Howard!
Howard who?
How would you like to loose the election and your seat at the same time?

Seriously now it’s all been very entertaining but I really do need to get back to my thesis.

MostlyFreeMarket says:

02:01pm | 27/11/09

As a person who voted Labor (last election), supports Kevin Rudd (for now), cares little whether climate change is anthropomorphic or not…
I disagree with an ETS, preferring set limits. An ETS will simply create another speculative asset bubble ripe for international manipulation. We DO need to transform our energy usage. If you believe in CO2 induced warming, peak oil, or just doing things efficiently, reducing ultra-fine particles (an issue not yet on the publics agenda), or acidification of the seas - then there is reason to transform our energy generation AND usage.

It is a failure of the market that cheapest is ALWAYS best. The cheapest options will bring new problems. But we can blunder into those problems later, with pockets full of money. ETS is not the solution, but given the current political climate it seems to be the only option forwards.

JJ says:

02:29pm | 27/11/09

It is surprising that the ‘developed’ world is quick to lead in many world aspects - human rights, who can and cannot have nuclear weapons, and holding the high moral ground. BUT when it may reduce standard of living, we’ll wait and see what everyone does because we’re only small compared to them….says the 2nd highest greenhouse gas emitters per capita in the world.

Steve says:

02:58pm | 27/11/09

To Eric @ 6.41am… “Over a decade of Howard success”. What parellel universe are you travelling through? Do you not remember….
- being far too cosy with the Bush / Cheney neo-cons that certainly have not left the world a better place for their prescence
- unprecedented, record levels of consumer debt and foreign debt (why does this not receive similar press coverage as govt debt?
- extremely unfair, draconian, anti-worker and brutally anti-union WorkChoices package
- the Children Overboard lies and deceit fear tactics
- the unwarranted Pacific Solution when we are supposed to be a prosperous and generous nation
- the stubborn refusal to apologise to the Stolen generation
- the bungled Mohamed Haneef affair
- more lies and deception leading into the Iraq War
- the scandal of AWB kickback to Saddam Hussein
- the public denegration of Mick Keelty because he dared to question the veracity of the claims for invading Iraq
- the blatant moral vacuum sorrounding the cases of Cornelia Rau, Vivian Alvarez Solon, Stefan Nystrom and Robert Jovicic….
I could go on and on and on

Paul says:

03:09pm | 27/11/09

“his is a classic sucker move induced by the success of the centrist Kevin Rudd phenomenon.”

Keep telling yourself that he is centrist.  A lie told often enough is still a lie.  There is no way that someone who blows through as much wasted money as KRudd has is a centrist.  Neither is most of his social policies centrist either so I would much rather have a genuine opposition then just another version of the same rubbish we already have

TLC says:

03:49pm | 27/11/09

I thought that I will never see fall of Communism,the end of Cold War.Fall of Berlin Wall,end of Apartheid , Black President in the USA but the Liberals are taking the cake.
“This is the end my friend,the end” one can sing with disbelief.
I am glad that this happen now, so we can avoid disappointments later.
From now on I will trust my inner feelings more often.
This is the best show in Australia since the first “Big Brother”.
Much better then “Farmer wants a wife”
And beats the hell out of “Australian Idol”
Liberal and National Coalition will be in next “Australia got Talent”
Who will be singing “Les Miserable” ?
I wait and wait what next.
Best comedy show in lifetime.
Only the Libs can do it so well.
Congratulation!

GeeJay says:

04:01pm | 27/11/09

BOOM!!!! BOOM!!!! .....Thats the sound of the self destruct button going off on Monday,and the Troglodites jump off a cliff—L:emming like..

Badger says:

04:29pm | 27/11/09

Malcolm, tell the lot of them. UP THEM ALL, you don’t need this pressure.
  You can buy and sell the lot of them, and live a very long and peaceful life without them all.
  Go Fishing or play a Round of Golf, the world will not collapse without you, and the end is not Neigh, even if the doomsday rabble are squawking from the tree tops.
  The world has been here before thousands of times, and will continue to do so, look at the fossil evidence we have about us. It goes up and down all the time like a Lavatory seat at a mixed party, and then settles down.

Ben says:

04:51pm | 27/11/09

Come on Mark—no matter how you devalue the electability of conservatives, the fact is that Australians did vote for the non-moderate Howard government over 12 years.  Besides, all the pundits were confident Rudd would win handily in 2010.  Does anyone think a bi-partisan ETS would reverse a likely Rudd win?  We need a clear alternative to Rudd’s rushed ETS.

Diamantina Dick says:

06:03pm | 27/11/09

The big debates always occur in opposition

Liberals are reconnecting with the base, Nats rock solid throughout

Public opinion is swinging fast on AGW, public spending will follow

Rudd debt will eventually come home to roost

Working families will tire of lip service

Genuine alternative will be re-elected but not 2010

George says:

07:42pm | 27/11/09

Hey Dick
If you haven’t noticed the opposition is actually opposed within itself. Half agree with the government and half with… well let’s just say that the other half just dosen’t agree. I’ve never found them agreeable anyway.

George says:

08:47pm | 27/11/09

OK Ben,
So what we have is the government putting forward an ETS that 50% of the opposition agrees to take to Copenhagen. Let’s call that 75% in agreement, 25% undecided. And you’re suggesting that we need to come up with a clear alternative. Well where is it and for how long will it take for the dissenting morons to put forward a single idea. The whole world is going to Copenhagen.

It’s clear that the only idea put forward by the break away bunch is to wait and see what the rest of the world is going to do. So what! They’re clearly a minority and Turnbull as leader of the opposition has already agreed with the government’s stance on an ETS, albeit on a single vote majority. Now the rest of the country is expected to put up with the philistine pig ignorance of the rest of the coalition’s attitude that we stand by and watch the internal backstabbing going on in the opposition as they sort out their differences of opinion.

The Green’s want more action on climate change than is being offered by the government which has tried to make a compromise from their original offering for the sake of appeasing this belligerent group masquerading as a coalition. And this minority group in the opposition still can’t even put forward single idea. They’re dead in the water and all they’re concerned about is a leadership spill for a party comprised of two distinctly separate parties trying to appear cohesive. Now that is a level of arrogance never seen before in Australian politics.

Don’t expect the Australian electorate to take this rabble of fools seriously for a long, long time.

Bruce says:

10:14pm | 27/11/09

Steve 6.41. We could make a list about any political party of the things that did not sit well with our narrow personal political beliefs. I would get bored listing the incompetence of the Keating Labor party, along with the Frazer Liberal Party and before that, the worst government in Australian history, Goffs Labor party.  BUT, one thing is for sure, most of us we were richer under John Howard than we are now. Do not believe me, check the value of your superannuation, the share market, and real estate values now, compared to 28 months ago.

Jacquie Butterfield says:

12:08am | 28/11/09

Turnbull is a latecomer to politics, he doesn’t play the same game as the rest of the boys.  As one journalist wrote, they are moulded into John Howard’s ways.

I didn’t like the standard of media contact the dissenters presented this week.  They were like little boys, yelping dogs and weak.  I finally saw what was really under the lid that John Howard kept so tightly sealed obviously for good reason.

There’s no way I want to be associated with backward conservatives.  While I have great sympathy for the farmers and am delighted and unsurprised that reaonableness easily prevailed in that they don’t have to wear an ETS, I think it’s time the Nationals split completely, the dissenters remained the Liberals and others formed another party….but is there room for one?  Probably not.

If Turnbull goes I move away.

Jacquie Butterfield says:

12:34am | 28/11/09

This ETS matter has exposed the reality of the thinking inside the Coalition which clearly has three incompatible factions. It doesn’t suit me to be associated with the kind of thinking we’ve been able to glimpse this week.  The media presentations by the “35” has made me lose respect for them, Turnbull may not play the game they are used to because I think they are far too stuck in their rut to make any adjustments to themselves.  A good cleanout or dissolution of the Liberals or a mass exodus leaving the tired conservatives on their own would be the best thing.  If Turnbull is voted down, they’ve gone and so have I.

Joe Blow says:

07:28am | 28/11/09

Agree with JB. It’s pretty clear that what we see here in Parliament is a group prepared to sell out their Party’s own integrity along with its own policy. All at the behest shrilly expressed by a small well-organised group of far right extremists who have orchestrated an email, blog and phone campaign that sounds big but is merely loud.  A campaign, as we’ve seen here on The Punch, based in ignorance, stupid thinking and flat out fibs.

They’d have you believe this is democracy at work. Well, no, it’s not. Its a dirty trick. They already had their say in the 2007 election, when an ETS - pretty much this ETS - was on the table for *both parties*.

Senator Minchin, you and your extreme team cannot overturn the Ozzie election process by email. You cannot. You will not.

Steve says:

09:55am | 28/11/09

Bruce, your correct assertion that we are poorer now than we were a couple of years ago could, if we chose, be levelled at every government in the world

Jacquie Butterfield says:

01:46pm | 28/11/09

I’m brand new to this site.  I’ve enjoyed all the comments no matter which end of the spectrum. 

I would like to say that Speak Up has written a great piece of far thinking oratory.  All comments I’ve read a very lively.  I look foward to reading The Punch online in future.