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The things that natter: Downer’s full Rudd transcript

David Penberthy

by David Penberthy

01 Aug 02:53pm

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Filed under: Alexander Downer, Election 2010, Kevin Rudd

58 comments

Alexander Downer has questioned The Sunday Telegraph’s treatment of his comments about Kevin Rudd, particularly the use of the word “double agent” to describe Downer’s claim that he used to leak Rudd information damaging to his opponents the Labor Party.

We would give Rudd information to use and he would use it. Photo: Ray Strange

The newspaper has now released a full, unedited, transcript of the relevant section of the interview with journalist Claire Harvey, in which Mr Downer was very candid about Mr Rudd.

Claire Harvey: What intrigues me, in particular about the story about the Jakarta thing, and other people’s stories about Rudd’s temper, is that he didn’t seem to have any shyness about exposing his temper? You had no reason to protect him or to keep it a secret?

Alexander Downer: No, absolutely no, I don’t think he cares about that. He cares about getting publicity for himself. I suppose I would be regarded, as someone from the opposing political party, prima facie, I wouldn’t be regarded as a very reliable witness, so he wouldn’t really care what I said. Whereas if I was from the Labor Party it would be potentially more of a problem for him.

Claire Harvey: Mmm, mmm.

Alexander Downer: But you know I don’t think he thought it all through. It was just monstrously bad behaviour which demonstrated that – the fact is you get this – there were these stories – I don’t know if Julie Bishop tells these stories but - I sent him and Julie Bishop on a parliamentary delegation to Zimbabwe, he was using the c-word to her all the time. I mean you’re a woman, women don’t like that. There was all that sort of language that she found - she came back and complained to me about it. He might have been chairman of the caucus foreign affairs committee at the time. There was nothing I could do about it, I told her. But, you know, it was a pattern of bad behaviour. It wasn’t about party politics. It was a constant pattern of bad behaviour.

Claire Harvey: Mmm, mmm.

Alexander Downer: I was thinking also, about - He was so incredibly unprincipled. When he was chairman of the caucus committee, it reminds me, we used to use him mercilessly to embarrass Laurie Brereton. I mean, he was quite happy to – Laurie Brereton was – whatever, I don’t know, you like or didn’t like Laurie Brereton - personally I think Laurie Brereton’s a very competent and funny operator. But Rudd was happy to humiliate and embarrass him. We would give Rudd information to use against Brereton, and he would use it.

Claire Harvey: Mmm, mmm, so you would give him something and it would appear in Laurie Oakes’ column, or -?

Alexander Downer: Absolutely. I don’t think it was particularly Laurie Oakes because—we all know that he was close to Laurie, he cleaned his carpet or whatever in 1970.

The Sunday Telegraph telephoned Mr Downer and sent him a text message on Saturday July 31, reminding him that the story was to be published on Sunday August 1, and asking if he had specific details of stories he had used Mr Rudd to leak against Mr Brereton. Mr Downer simply replied: “Just general.”

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58 comments

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    • Steve says:

      04:01pm | 01/08/10

      It doesn’t matter what side of politics you hail from, this guy is a disgrace.
      If his story was true, it would mean he leaked confidential Coalition cabinet meetings. Some on national security. Considering the backpeddling, it looks highly likely he made the story up. The only reasoning I could think of that Downer would fabricate a story to impact on the election is AWB. I thought Rudd pledged to reopen this stinker to a full inquiry. I think that is the motivation. Disgusting pompous grub.

      Reply

    • Northern Steve says:

      12:01am | 02/08/10

      Just where does it say Downer leaked confidential stuff?  I think you’re stretching there.

    • Gregg says:

      02:24am | 02/08/10

      I reckon you’ll even having a lot of Labor people more than agreeing with you about not just Rudd when the gang of leakers is revealed.
      A lot of them always probably thought they could run with him for only so long.

    • Mark says:

      04:03am | 02/08/10

      What back-pedaling? This is the interview that the paper, somehow, got ‘double agent’ from. I can’t see Downer using the term anywhere in the interview, so it seems the paper made it up. Like them, you seem to be drawing conclusions from no eidence. Where did AWB come from, except your own imagination? And Cabinet meetings? Good grief. Seems to me that Downer did nothing more than brief against Brereton, which I think is pretty common behaviour among all politicians of all flavours and colours.

    • BobM says:

      02:25pm | 02/08/10

      Agree, Mark. Newspapers make things up to sell newspapers. Nothing new there, but it would be nice if journalists (if that’s what they call themselves) would report the facts, rather than their biased version of their ‘facts’, alonf with a screaming headline. Interesting book called “Flat Earth News’ exposes just how the public is manipulated by the media - worth a read.

    • Super D says:

      04:12pm | 01/08/10

      He’s not a double agent, just a very crass and calculating boy.

      Reply

    • Andrew says:

      04:23pm | 01/08/10

      Nothing about Downer impresses me. This makes me think even less of him.

      Reply

    • Robert Smissen, rural SA, God's own country says:

      11:48pm | 01/08/10

      So Andrew, if the stories are found to be true (Very Likely as they come from several sorces) you’ll chang your mind won’t you? ?

    • Christian Real says:

      02:08pm | 02/08/10

      Andrew smissen
      It seems that Kevin Rudd has contacted his solicitors, and the papers and those perpetrating the rumours and false gossip are more likely to be sued.
      By the Way, I believe Joel Fitzgibbon has also taken legal action against the news media.
      It also seems that Murdock can afford the money his newspapers will have to pay out for continuing to run with false stories

    • Jill says:

      04:31pm | 01/08/10

      Can we believe anything Downer says given the above transcript. I recall another comment made from Downer about Rudd that was also completely rubbish.  Abbott as well has said he doesnt quite believe the above story .

      Reply

    • Marilyn Shepherd says:

      04:55pm | 01/08/10

      And Dolly Downer is credible on anything after those 37 ignored cables about AWB giving Saddam Hussein $300 million?

      Why they hell would any dimwitted journo. think that Downer would of any use to anyone?

      And Rudd doesn’t speak like that, but Downer certainly does.

      Downer was exposed for lying about the murders in East Timor and thousands were slaughtered by the TNI, it was Downer the dimwit who insisted that anyone who complained against the invasion of Iraq was a Saddam supporter even while his own department were busy covering up or ignoring the AWB thing and Downer who bribed and bullied Nauru to breach their own constitution and jail innocent men, women and kids.

      Why on earth would anyone speak to the “things that batter”?

      Honest to god, talk about much something out of not much.

      Reply

    • Ben81 says:

      09:30pm | 01/08/10

      Yeah talk about something out of not much, for instance government culpability for the AWB debacle.  Don’t even pretend to care, if you did you’d be angry at the wheat board. 

      And I think I’ll let someone else pick apart your one eyed versions of history.

    • Northern Steve says:

      12:03am | 02/08/10

      Rudd doesn’t speak like that?
      Have you asked the Chinese?

    • Chris P. says:

      05:01pm | 01/08/10

      What do you expect Downer to do, fall on the ground and grovel - eat dirt - I mean, get real. This is a quite common situation for him.
      A request for an apology will offend former Foreign Minister Alexander Downer.

      Reply

    • iansand says:

      06:50pm | 01/08/10

      Look.  Over there.  Fishnet stockings.

    • Robert Smissen, rural SA, God's own country says:

      11:51pm | 01/08/10

      Insand I suggest you have your Thyroid checked, Mr Downer donned a fish-net for charity, something you are so obviously bereft of.

    • Douglas says:

      05:16pm | 01/08/10

      Downer is a spoiled twit.

      Reply

    • Robbie says:

      05:18pm | 01/08/10

      I worked for a Psychopath once, what a terrible experience.  Kevin Rudd reminds me of my old boss, especially the “icebox” thing, the leaking and the soft girl voice (until he gets angry).  Eventually it all blew up in his face, just like Kevin.  Psycho.

      Reply

    • Bill says:

      05:44pm | 01/08/10

      If Alexander Downer had a shred of decency about him… oh wait, whatever gave me that idea?

      Reply

    • Tony says:

      05:57pm | 01/08/10

      Mmm, mmm.

      Reply

    • Tony says:

      05:59pm | 01/08/10

      So where did the “double agent” come from? Did Claire Mmm Mmm Harvey make that bit up?

      Reply

    • WayneT says:

      06:51pm | 02/08/10

      Spot on.  To be a double agent means that you pass information to both sides while neither side knows your doing it.  All Downer did was give Rudd some snippets of information that Rudd swallowed and used to attack Laurie Brereton.  It’s called the Political Game. and Rudd was happy to play.

    • Press says:

      12:42am | 03/08/10

      “To be a double agent means that you pass information to both sides while neither side knows your doing it. “

      Hardly!

    • nosthow says:

      06:14pm | 01/08/10

      Poor old geriatric Abbotts Libs dragging out , of all people, Downer ! The king of lightweights, prince of piffle and master of nothing !

      Reply

    • Northern Steve says:

      12:08am | 02/08/10

      I’d say it’s more a case of the media going to look for an interesting opinion on Rudd.  I don’t think that the Libs asked Downer for this at the moment.  Or are you also going to blame the Libs for bringing out Hawke and Keating for their recent slanging match as well?

    • Sirro says:

      07:11pm | 01/08/10

      Just goes to show what a dirty stinking bunch of people politicians are generally, regardless of party allegance.

      Interesting that the news this evening says that Julia is looking to get Labors campagn back on track by getting personal on Tony Abbott.
      Gee wiz ... what a way to get into government.
      Moving forward and policies ..not on your life.

      Reply

    • Gregg says:

      08:13pm | 01/08/10

      I suppose if a journo being aware of Krudd’s temper/language is wanting to make something of a story during an election they’ll be wide open for any comments, whether they’ve been aired before or not.
      But it’s not the first time that Krudd has been reported in the media re flare-ups.
      The episode with an RAAF Attendant comes to mind.
      Then we’ve had the language he has used to his own ministers
      He has tried so hard in public to be the goody two shoes with Sunday church interviews the fabricated slip of a word on TV because minders thought he ought to be more manly or whatever.
      They should have just said Kev, give it a rev and be yourself
      ” tell them Rat F….rs how it is.
      The guy would definitely have two more opposite sides to himself than we have ever seen with any PM, or at least in a close race with Red.

      But look Labor fans, Downer has always been more help to you lot than he ever really was to the Liberal cause and in this case it’d seem he’s just trying to help Julia narrow down where the leaks are.
      Mark Latham has given his view and Alexander is merely saying well based on my interaction with him there’s every possibility.

      Maybe you’ll be able to keep him sidelined for the whole next three weeks and perhaps getting a pole and some dancers into his room will help.

      Reply

    • Northern Steve says:

      12:10am | 02/08/10

      Waiting for Rob r Charteris to deny RAAF incident
      1, 2, 3….

    • Reg says:

      04:33am | 02/08/10

      Rather sad to see you resorting to Mark Latham to support your case Gregg. Are there any other marginal mental cases you’d like to trot out? Alexander perhaps? He is clearly unstable when he gets these rushes of blood to the brain then as they pass, he casually dismisses his weakness with a “Just general” remark.  A distraction from the irrational. Not very reliable.

    • fehowarth says:

      02:12pm | 02/08/10

      The episode with an RAAF Attendant.”  Defence chiefs deny on more than one occasion that they had no knowledge this happened.  I would suggest that most of the other allegations if the happened have been blown out of proportion.  I find it hard to believe if his behaviour is as alleged, he would not have a successful career for so many years.

    • Christian Real says:

      02:41pm | 02/08/10

      Northern steve
      You Liberal mob believe anything that the Liberal party spins to you, and you all just echo their mantra.
      This rumour about the flight attendant came from Senator George Brandis, another Liberal that is capable of making a story out of nothing., who questioned Chief Air Marshal Mark Binskin at an estimates hearing.
      Extracts from a NewsMail story:“Pm’s air crew ‘stressed out’: Senator”, 1st June 2010:
      Senator Brandis asked RAAf Chief Air Marshal Mark Binskin whether the alledged outburst over the lack of a special meal really occurred.”
      “I put it to you that an incident of the kind..did in fact take place,” he said.
      “Air Marshal Binskin responded: “An incident of the severity you describe has never been reported to me”
      This story was also in The Sydney Morning Herald, May 31,2010 @ 11.19PM
      The bottom line is that the Libs simply tell fibs, and their Leader Tony Abbott said during an interview with kerry O’Brien on The 7.30 report, “Don’t believe everything I say”
      Going on this riff raff who calls themselves The Liberal party, maybe he should have said :“Don’t believe anything that any of us says.”

    • S.L says:

      08:46pm | 01/08/10

      Some of the worst rumours I’ve heard in politics have been about Labor Party identities and originating from conservative circles. None can be mentioned here such as someones sexuality (and I have never heard any story about David Campbell). But I take new stories with a grain of salt. I have a friend who takes what he is told as gospal and emails me any tidbit that comes his way. Makes for a good laugh!

      Reply

    • Chris says:

      08:55pm | 01/08/10

      Downer is a complete and utter incompetent buffoon; a prissy, pompous clown who made the Foreign Affairs portfolio a joke.
      His credibility on anything is precisely zero.

      Reply

    • Northern Steve says:

      12:23am | 02/08/10

      Funny, I thought it was Gareth Evans who made the Chinese Food joke about the Governor of Hong Kong’s missing dog.
      I just checked; it was.  Downer was the one who got the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty through the UN.

      You’re right, no credibility at all.

    • Polly Waffle says:

      09:01pm | 01/08/10

      These men are ao crass.  Let’s just give The Red Mane a go - at least the language may not be as bad.

      Reply

    • Sirro says:

      09:37am | 02/08/10

      I think you mean the The Red Witch ... or the Wicked Red Witch of the South?

      Im sure the Witch can swear as well as any man. No doubt her and Ruddy came up with some great names for Tony Abbott when they were still friends and holding hands.

    • preciouspress says:

      09:12pm | 01/08/10

      Somewhat surprising that Lord Downer didn’t release this information prior to the 2007 Election? If Rudd used such offensive language in conversation with Julie Bishop, then surely she would have asked him not to repeat this and threatened him with public disclosure had he refused to do so. Amazing also that if she did report it to Downer, he said “there was nothing he could do about it”.

      Reply

    • Gregg says:

      02:21am | 02/08/10

      It’s usually Labor who do the personal attack bit in any campaign and you only have to look at the nature of ads we’ve had to date this time around.
      Sure we’ve had the Kevolemon but that was more pretty light hearted in its naure in referring to policies gone sour.
      Julie Bishop is probably not too easily intimidated but she may have well known of the guys reputation and decided its better to just let the mouth run.
      What could Downer do for what do you think any politician could do about one from another party mouthing off.
      If anything it’s what goes around comes around and this has come back to bite Kruddy ruddy well in more ways than one, his approach to his own party also impacting on how many knives got drawn.
      Now no lemon and I suppose it’ll now be just a case of letting it be known that a WW air brush job befits an air head or should it be we’ve got the Red dare BER layed bare or should it be lets all root for Julia!

    • Holly says:

      11:30pm | 01/08/10

      Absolutely laughed my head off reading this.  Only because I imagined an overweight guy in a prissy voice sprouting this drivel, while wearing suspenders and fish-nets !

      Reply

    • Bruce says:

      12:51am | 02/08/10

      No surprises here, this is australian politics.

      Reply

    • Julie Coker-Godson says:

      05:26pm | 02/08/10

      Absolutely, if history is anything to go by.  What about the Great Labor Split that allowed the late Robert Menzies (as he was then) to become PM for 19 years!  I don’t think there is anything in recent political history to equal the nastiness, viciousness, spite, backstabbing and frontstabbing , violence, stupidity, betrayal and more that occurred in that time.

    • Reg says:

      04:22am | 02/08/10

      Alexander Downer never tires of revealing what a thoroughly nasty piece of work he is. And to think the Liberals had him as a potential PM at one fleeting moment. Again with the inadequate Liberal vetting chaps!. A spoiled brat who still flails about resenting the missed opportunities handed to him by his dad.

      Reply

    • Christian Real says:

      06:43am | 02/08/10

      I see in today’s news media that Deputy Opposition Leader Julie Bishop is having a cheap shot and is kicking the former Prime Minister when he is down, recovering in a hospital bed after an operation.
      If this Liberal Opposition party is only capable of dirty,grubby smear campaigns like this then they are not worthy to ever rum this country,My Aboriginal ancestor’s Country.
      I am proud of this Country, but I am not proud and never will be proud of the riff raff that calls itself the Liberal opposition.
      This political party does not represent Australia, this party does not represent the Australian people, it seems that by their low-life campaign acts that this party only represents themselves, and they are willing to do anything, say anything, sink to the lowest level of humanity possible to win Government.
      Any real Australians would be disgusted at this party’s Un-Australian behaviour, and they way that they kick and continue to kick a person(Kevin Rudd) when he is down in an hospital bed recovering from an Operation.
      Downer, Julia Bishop and the rest of the Liberal party had ample time to reveal this information when it is alledged to have happened, why sit on it until now?
      Could the reason be that there is an Election due soon within weeks and they wil use any prefabricated story and diatribe in a blatant attempt to win office.

      Reply

    • Caroline says:

      09:38am | 02/08/10

      For heaven’s sake!  The operation he is recovering from was for his gall bladder.  Suck it up Princess.  But I suppose your comment is immune to any reply since you’ve thrown in the big ‘My aboriginal ancestor’s Country’ card.  By the way, check the apostrophe placement in that ..... oh, what’s the point .... if you were capable of understanding you wouldn’t be so enamoured with the Labor Party.

    • fairsfair says:

      10:05am | 02/08/10

      He would have had key hole surgery of a standard nature and is now hold up in a private hospital bed, I would imagine taking a break from his hectic life. You wanna talk about taking advantage of a situation???
      What we should really be talking about is the experience he would have had if he was an average joe and attending the public system. That would generate some debate now wouldn’t it? Oh and by the way - I am a labor votor and to attack the liberals for playing the game and making out that labor would not do the same or worse - well you need to get REAL real. I am sick and tired of this idealess election campaign and these “leaks”. All it does is detract from the fact that we have two trained monkeys to pick from and our country appears to be in a little bit of trouble. Remind me, are Latham and Downer still in politics - no. The media needs their head read for even printing what they say. It would be more useful for them to invest their time in reporting the views of bus drivers and tradespeople as they would at least have something constructive and unbiased to say.

    • Youdy beaudy says:

      06:47am | 02/08/10

      Well, what can one say about a poofy pumped up verbal masturbater. His poofy little voice was enough for me. I wouldn’t believe a word that came out of the head of this loser non achieving bludger. Typical Liberal tactic. One would expect it from them. They wind this idiot up every day and send him out. Well I definately wouldn’t bend down to pick up the soap he would probably be a better proctologist than a human like his mate Howard.

      Oh by the way. How come howard hasn’t been charged with treason against the state yet for his disgusting role in the deaths of thousands of Iraqi citizens, men women and children that he and his mates Bush and Blair brought about with their illegal invasion of iraq, When is this going to happen, tomorrow, never. It’s amazing how the dogs got away with that. Now doing that would be justice for those people, and chuck Downer in there with him, he was involved as well. Well he should talk, arseholes all of them.

      Reply

    • Sweet says:

      07:08am | 02/08/10

      All this angst from Downer seems to have been triggered about the same time as it was suggested that Rudd could get senior position at the UN.  Given Alexander Downer’s complete stuff up in Cyprus, I bet Rudd would get promoted further and into a more senior position than Downer will ever achieve at the UN.

      Reply

    • Robert Smissen, rural SA, God's own country says:

      11:32pm | 02/08/10

      Stuff up in Cyprus, HMMMMMMM, That’s not what the UN said

    • Carl Palmer says:

      09:25am | 02/08/10

      As a country we need to take a greater interest in these affairs, because after all, it will affect our lives, our children and our future, just relying on the media is not a good thing. Unfortunately they too carry their own bias.

      Reply

    • Harriet says:

      09:39am | 02/08/10

      I find it amazing that after the 2007 election the Rudd government offered prestige positions to the Lib/Nats. Yet as Rudd is in hospital Libs are doing their utmost to destroy him, now and into the future.
      It seem to me that Kevin Rudd’ is more honorable than anything coming from the Lib/Nats.

      Reply

    • Mick says:

      10:00am | 02/08/10

      If you honestly believe that Harriet, I’ve got some Nigerian bankers that would just love to get in touch with you.

    • Harriet says:

      11:04am | 02/08/10

      Mick can you name some people Howard appointed from the other side of politics in his 12 years? How many senior bureaucrats/ public servants fell on Howard’s night of the long knives? With one thing I agree with you Kevin should have sacked more Howard public service appointees, maybe then Grech may not have had the courage to rat in the ranks.

    • Carl Palmer says:

      10:13am | 02/08/10

      How coincidental that everyone from all corners of the country - ALP. Libs, Jurno, former staffers, Public Servants – everyone and anyone who had the slightest brush with Mr Rudd, except though his daughter out course, is letting it all hang out on the former PM. I can’t recall a PM who was able to get some many people off side.Respect, what respect.

      Even if you discount the various vested interest groups, there is more than something in all of this. Interestingly, Laurie Brereton didn’t come out and completely deny the allegations preferring to just shut up. A wise move, I suspect there is more to come.  It just goes to show that this country had a screaming lunatic at the helm who for example didn’t attend strategic defense meetings. One would have thought that was pretty important and one can only shudder at the thought of whatever else he may have dismissed as unimportant.

      How we allowed Mr. Rudd to become PM (I didn’t vote for Mr. Rudd but I will include myself as an Australian in the “we”) is a concern. We deserved what we got.  Having said that, the media in general needs to be accountable and take a greater responsibility, they play a pivotal role in all of this.

      Reply

    • Ted says:

      10:30am | 02/08/10

      Rudd….........mistake.

      Those who fell for his “I am an economic conservative, John Howard-lite” act….........gullible/hoodwinked.

      Don’t make the same mistake with Stalin’s daughter, Red Julia.

      Reply

    • OldGirl says:

      12:39pm | 02/08/10

      Alexander Downer is a venomous malicious gossipy old nag. I have some gossips in my day both men and women, and I usually take 10 steps back, because you know if they gossiping about others, they are gossiping about you. This man has really taken king of gossips prize for me, he went beyond hanging over the back fence, he put it in the newspaper!! Its not Australian to kick a man when hes down and having just being operated on Kevin Rudd was down as far as you can go. I hope Kevin sues the pants off him.

      Reply

    • DD Ball says:

      06:01pm | 02/08/10

      It is ridiculous to inflate the words of MR Downer to suggest Mr Downer has said anything out of place. What he said is nothing we don’t already know about Rudd. Rudd is an opportunist who suffers from bad judgement. He is rich, privileged and discourteous. It just goes to show the Liberals are capable of great restraint and discipline that this story was not told sooner.

      Reply

    • GhostRider says:

      11:57pm | 02/08/10

      Downer is a pompous old feret, hope Rudd kicks his bum hard

      Reply

    • Tails says:

      03:56pm | 03/08/10

      So disappointed no one has high-fived you for the “The things that matter” pun.

      Here’s a low five instead.


      5

      Reply
 
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