I’ve indulged in it; I’ve taken the piss out of it; I’ve patronised the people on it; I’ve got angry about it. No, I’m not talking about the front bench of the Liberal Party; it’s pornography.

What's a liberated feminist who's uncomfortable with porn to do? Illustration: The Daily Telegraph's Paul Newman

Let me say from the outset I consider myself a feminist and it’s through the prism of this theoretical perspective that I’m likely to view stuff that concerns women. But which feminism?

It’s been a long time since the dominant feminist view of porn toed the party line of radical pro-censorship campaigners like Andrea Dworkin and Catherine MacKinnon and their dictum that if you consume pornography you don’t have a right to your sexuality.

Then ‘postmodern’ feminists came along and told us the idea of sexualised images of women only being read as an oppressive function of patriarchy was a simplistic one.

Images have multiple readings, the meanings of which are determined at least in part by context, and that power relations of all types are fluid and not readily reducible to one reading either. Embrace your sexual power and take pleasure in it was the catch-cry of this group.

More recently, this particular spin on ‘girl power’ has been questioned on the basis that it’s just a consumerist mask for ‘slut power’ where women are duped once again by the giant marketing machine of patriarchal culture into identifying their use value with their sexual availability.

No doubt we’ll soon see another generational shift which will overturn this view in terms of a more emancipatory reading of pornography and sexualised imagery.

In fact Oprah recently devoted a show to what’s being called the “new sexual revolution” where a recent survey suggests that one in three consumers of online adult entertainment are women and that large numbers of viewers are couples in long-term monogamous relationships.

In other words, the empirical reality is that, regardless of the moral questions it raises, the simple fact is that not only men like sexualised imagery.

My problem with all of this is that as someone who has studied all the subjects at uni that should allow me to make some kind of determination about the most logical and critically thought out position to take on porn, my relationship to it is an uncomfortable one that shifts according to how I feel rather what I’m reading.

I feel vaguely embarrassed to admit I don’t like the idea of my boyfriend gaining sexual pleasure from looking at other women.

I know the standard argument against this is that there is an enormous slippage between fantasy and reality and that, moreover, porn trades in images and archetypes, not real people. One needs no more proof of this than the fact that women consistently report rape as dominant among their sexual fantasy repertoire.

And on an intellectual level I am swayed by the libertarian position adopted by many contemporary feminists – and I’ve read the research that shows no causal link between sexualised imagery of women and the idea that it leads to men perceiving them in a degrading way.

But still my relationship to pornography remains a stubbornly fraught one.

I also tend toward a pragmatic position on the truth of cultural phenomenon - I believe in engaging with the world as it is rather than pontificating on how it ought to be.

But the simple fact is I do sometimes make negative moral judgements about porn and how it makes me feel as a woman, particularly one that suffers from a very common condition: jealousy most likely rooted in poor self-image.

Indeed, many say that this is the nub of the problem, but that the panacea depends on which side of the ideological fence you sit on. The pro-porn brigade would argue that porn can be a liberating force for women like me; the pro-censorship lobby, that it’s one of the root causes of my self-esteem issues.

Uncool as it is among the majority of my enlightened friends, I remain at the very least ambivalent about porn and sometimes downright threatened by it.

I guess, like everything else, it’s a matter of negotiating the ethics of something in your own life and letting others do the same.

And that means I have a right to my fantasy life, which some days include a secret desire to live in a world where my boyfriend only wants to perv on me.

140 comments

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    • Eric says:

      06:18am | 03/06/10

      “as someone who has studied all the subjects at uni that should allow me to make some kind of determination about the most logical and critically thought out position to take on porn” - There’s your problem, right there. You view everything through the cultural lens of feminism which has been indoctrinated into you by so-called institutions of higher learning.

      I note that your entire article is written on the basis of what women want, what’s good or bad for women, and so on. Like a typical feminist, you ignore half the human race, unless it’s to critique them - such as how your boyfriend’s watching porn makes you uncomfortable.

      Men have their own interests which are not those of women. And frankly, it’s none of women’s business to tell us what we can or cannot watch, read or think.

    • MaddyQ says:

      08:41am | 03/06/10

      Dear Eric,

      Men have not told women over the last several thousand years what to watch, read or think? Even how to look and behave? What about financial and domestic oppression? Besides you miss the point entirely. Women have a right to an opinion here. Are you suggesting that Ms Miller doesn’t? Isn’t that telling her what to think? I bet you read FHM.

    • Liz says:

      08:41am | 03/06/10

      Most women wouldn’t presume to write for men, there’s plenty of them to tell us what they want to watch, read and think and are prepared to write about it.
      Feminism changes,seems we’re ready for another wave as the next generation comes through.
      I’ve never heard a woman, of any age, say she wasn’t upset by her male partner viewing pornography in whatever form he chose and the chosing is more overt these days it seems.Looks as if you’re taking the missionary position on this one Carrie!
      And by the way do we actually care or think it our business to know what you think? I’d cut it short, cut out the big words and put it on Facebook.

    • Chris says:

      08:44am | 03/06/10

      First cab of the rank Eric and you have summed it up well for all concerned.

      Great comment.

    • Kage says:

      09:29am | 03/06/10

      Eric’s always first - and always with the same boiler-plate comment.

    • maybe says:

      11:17am | 03/06/10

      Liz, I am a female and I have no probs whatsoever with my fiancee watching porn, no matter what kind (except, or course CP or anything that is fundamentally exploitative in it’s inception) .  Unless it’s really noisy and I’m trying to sleep or something, but that’s not really to do with the porn.

    • Sandra says:

      11:28am | 03/06/10

      Liz, here’s a first for you!!!!

      I don’t mind my partner looking at porn

      smile there you go, now you have it from a very secure and independent woman… not many of us out there though… most throw their insecurities out on their men, for shame!

    • Luke says:

      01:25pm | 03/06/10

      @eric…
      It is women’s business to discuss with thier PARTNER what they can or cannot read or watch. If they are uncomfortable with their partner having porn they have a right to have a say in it…
      I dont think she was talking about “ALL MEN” at all…
      She does speak as it applies to women and from the viewpoint of a women… SO WHAT? its in the language she uses…
      I honestly found this an interesting read…

    • Moi says:

      02:04pm | 03/06/10

      Dude (Eric), it’s a feminist piece.  Would be a bit strange if it was written by a neo-liberalist.

    • Lauryn says:

      04:36pm | 03/06/10

      Liz, as Maybe and Sandra have already commented - I too am female, and have absolutely no problem with my boyfriend watching porn. In fact - it actually never occurred to me until now that it was actually normal to feel insecure by porn.

    • Stripper says:

      10:58am | 04/06/10

      Eric, I consider myself to be fairly open minded. I have undertaken gender studies at uni, and completed a diploma in gender studies prior to that, have consumed pornography, my occupation is an exotic dancer (stripper), and guess what?? I am an educated feminist.
      For me personally,  I find an obsession with porn distasteful, not representative of true female sexuality (therefore misleading for both men and women), definately addictive for some people(some guys come to see strippers very regularly), sometimes affecting a persons ability to experience true intimacy,& often degrading for women. porn signifies power imbalances in gender relations, it is incredibly de- humanizing, and hell I should just publish the essays I have written on the subject. I think I am fairly qualified to speak not so much because of my educational undertakings, but because I am actually a part of the sex industry(for reasons of time and finance). I receive one of two reactions when I tell people usually. Its either disgust and contempt from both men and women, or great encouragement with phrases such as “if you’ve got it, flaunt it!”, and people expressing how liberating it must be. Neither are acurate. It’s just a job, like any other with its good points and its bad points.  Men degrade us all the time. We are people and it hurts. In rebuttle to the guys who think women arc up through insecurities, I am quite able to perform nude on stage in front of 100 people, knowing they like what they see. I am not coming from an insecure angle. I do however know that the way I look wearing 6 inch heels, long blonde hair extensions, makeup, fake tan, and breast implants, is not representative of the me walking around with none of that (barr the implants of course), and therefore is misrepresentative of what I really am, and what is really expected of women. I wonder if my cleints saw me in the morning what they would think then…. porn is a fantasy land, unfortunately many get far too taken with. Women do not wish to control men, but wish to escape the control that these depictions hold over us.

    • XanonX says:

      01:30pm | 08/06/10

      Great response, Stripper! This is the sort of discusion I’m looking for. Your idea of depictions controlling women and the consequences of persistent fantastical depictions of women is very interesting to me, and I’m grappling with my understanding of and and feelings toward porn in general. Is there anything you could suggest I read?
      I don’t know about publishing academic papers (I didn’t get that far at Uni) but between your experience and education, you could totally get a commercial book deal. Give it a go!

    • BTS says:

      06:23am | 03/06/10

      Carrie,

      If you could ever get to the stage of feeling comfortable with yourself you would find a better place.  If you could let go of your insecurities, lif’e a lot more pleasant.  Self esteem is about accepting who you are, valuing yourself and acknowledging your place on the planet (being comfortable in your own skin - ‘this is it, this is my role on earth, I am comfortable with who I am’)

      You think too much.

      That creates worries and self evaluation.  Accept that this is it.  Guys accept themselves far more readily than women.  ‘This is who I am’.

      You become much more attractive to your partner when you have relaxed and accepted yourself.

    • BTS says:

      07:12am | 03/06/10

      PS:

      A relationship is a lot more fun if you stop making it about yourself.  It’s not about you.  A good relationship is based on one where you live to make your partner happy, not about what you want (the reward is they learn to enjoy making you happy).

    • Coxy says:

      07:27am | 03/06/10

      Mmm, heavy. Probably right though.

    • Stephanie says:

      11:32am | 03/06/10

      There’s nothing more sexy than a person who is comfortable in their own skin… women are really too hard on themselves, and I say they because I am very comfortable with whom I am, inside and out… very well explained BTS

    • Ziggy says:

      06:24am | 03/06/10

      Public psychoanalysis - if it helps I’m for it!

    • John A Neve says:

      07:03am | 03/06/10

      Carrie,

      I always thought one persons porn, was anothers practice?
      After all, it depends on who’s eyes it is seen through.

    • Steve the Elder says:

      07:07am | 03/06/10

      Thank you for the use of the perpendicular pronoun in your article and the acknowledgement of your feelings such as jealousy. Far too many commentators on this subject try to preach a sermon focusing on shame and guilt.

    • Mags says:

      07:37am | 03/06/10

      Unfortunately the people (men)  replying to your post are lacking in your perceptive and analytical qualities, in other words, are totally clueless!
      I am with you totally. Most of my girlfriends feel the same, we do not like our men looking at porn. I have worked with men who have had so much contact with porn that they cannot get off without it, and have said that they need more and more extreme porn as time goes on. Is this healthy? I don’t think so. My man is fine with my attiitude - he has a healthy fantasy life as I do,. Neither of us need external stimulation which invloves decontextualising sex from emotion.
      I’m sick of apologists for porn trying to make out that it is harmless. I’m with Andrea and Catherine!

    • Chris L says:

      07:58am | 03/06/10

      I’m sick of self riteous bovines trying to degrade everything men enjoy with no facts nor research, only a holier than thou attitude.

    • BTS says:

      08:17am | 03/06/10

      You have the right to freedom of thought and action, so long as it accords with your view, huh Mags?

    • Dan says:

      08:38am | 03/06/10

      I’m sick of ignorant people who attack porn as if all porn is the same, and as if there is anything wrong with consuming a harmless legal product. Which it is. It is legal and it is harmless, and I’m not an apologist (surely one of the most overused words there is.) There is no evidence that those who watch/read porn in moderate amounts (like anything really) are harming themselves.

    • Wrong side of bed says:

      08:43am | 03/06/10

      BTS,
      You have the right to freedom of thought and action as long as you are not an obese, smoking, immigrant, welfare recipient who enjoys driving V8’s when not watching porn and approving of Rudd.  You should read more Punch.

    • Deluded says:

      08:49am | 03/06/10

      “My man is fine with my attiitude - he has a healthy fantasy life as I do,. Neither of us need external stimulation which invloves decontextualising sex from emotion.”

      Ha ha, Yeah my boyfriend doesn’t even like porn, he doesn’t even look at other women when we walk down the street. LOL.

    • T,Chong says:

      08:52am | 03/06/10

      Mags ,please explain why many women seem to actually like “porn” ?
      Many celebs (and non celeb ) women seem to enjoy starring in their own flicks , many a Hollywood celeb seem to make home movies which are “accidently” released, often when the “star” could do with publicity - an astounding coincidence, granted.
      You and yur pals have every right to be against porn, but the increased proliferation of female produced, orintated and marketed porn seem to show yur prejudices arent universal.
      Is female originated porn “good”, while male focussed “bad” ?
      (at no time would I consider any violent porn, staged or otherwise, even remotely acceptable, but thats my own POV )

    • L. says:

      09:38am | 03/06/10

      “My man is fine with my attiitude - he has a healthy fantasy life as I do,. Neither of us need external stimulation which invloves decontextualising sex from emotion.”

      Haha…he doesn’t look at porn??...or simply “tells” you he doesn’t..?? Because you would never know the difference.

    • Stephanie says:

      11:40am | 03/06/10

      I really am sorry to read something like this here and I do hope that the men reading this understand that its only ONE point of view from a woman who’s obviously insecure and jealous but is not comfortable in admitting it as the author of the article…

      Since I know all but one of my girlfriends in fine with herself, her man or as a couple watching porn, I’d like to think there are many more of us whom are more mature and secure in ourselves to know better than this… and whom do not attempt to tell our men what to watch lol after all they’re our partner not our children, hence we should not be telling them what to do nor what not to do…

    • Greek Snake says:

      01:31pm | 03/06/10

      Haha Mags you (and your girlfriends)are fools to think your man does not want to look at porn. I’m sure he doesn’t perv on hot women on the street either.

      Perhaps it is your perceptive and analytical qualities that need refining if you honestly and sincerely believe your boyfriend does not view porn at all.

      The example you give in an extreme. As with every indulgence there are those that can enjoy responsibly and those that get addicted and ruin their lives. Obviously, not every man who views pornography can be lumped into the “can’t get off without it” category. Besides, there are some women who enjoy it too. Does this mean they can’t be aroused without it?

      You run the same party line that the “NO R18+” weirdos chant. “People will be de-sensitised by this!”. Absolute baloney. By this logic, we can’t have violent movies, games or books. By this logic, we can’t have nudity in magazines, movies or websites. And, by this logic, any enjoyable leisure activity needs to be watched closely in case the patrons become addicted. Gambling, porn, alcohol and prescription drugs. Your ideas smell of buzz kill.

    • XanonX says:

      04:05pm | 03/06/10

      I’m relieved to find people with the same concerns as me. Porn, and my partner consuming porn, upset me but I can’t tell why. Am I jealous, insecure, worried about what messages about gender roles are stuck all over it? Or can I just not relate? I don’t enjoy looking at most of it.
      I’m starting to suspect it is in fact a symptom of a greater dissatisfaction in my life, rather than porn itself offending me. Maybe if I was happier with myself, happier with my relationship (and consistently felt like I was more attractive to my partner than the idea of going it alone on the net when I’m not at home), and not so jealous of the glamorous and well-endowed ladies that capture my partner’s attention, I could be OK with porn. That’s not the case right now, but is it right to blame porn?
      From the feminist point of view, I can see how the idea of women doing anything just to entertain men is offensive, but this is not the exclusive idea behind porn. If women consumed as much porn as men, there would be more equality in the types of images presented and maybe more room to analyse the differences in taste - and from this see if men’s appetites are on the whole more interested in entertainment that is degrading to women, disproportinate to the types of entertainment women seek out. That would make a high horse, but maybe also a forum for analysing and addressing how men want to think of women, and what each gender considers “sexy”.
      Having said all that, objectification leads to unhealthy attitudes and porn does objectify. Emotion and respect is supposed to be a factor in sex, but this is uncommon in popular porn.
      In summary, I have a problem with it and it has a problem with reality. So let’s talk about it some more and promote healthy attitudes towards women and sex!

    • L. says:

      04:56pm | 03/06/10

      XanonX says “I don’t enjoy looking at most of it.”

      So you like looking at some of it…therefore you like porn. I can’t see the problem here…??

    • XanonX says:

      05:28pm | 04/06/10

      You’ve missed my point, L. I do enjoy somethings that can be classified as pornography under certain circumstances. The circumstances include not being degrading to any party in any way, portraying positive relationships with sexual enjoyment above exhibitionism, and not negatively impacting on my relationship with my partner. I have a very, very difficult time locating this material but I don’t view it often so it’s not hard to balance these interests with my relationship.
      Most porn is not like this and this is part of the reason why I have a problem with it. Let me know if this makes sense, it’s an important part of my argument.

    • Emily says:

      07:44am | 03/06/10

      Evidence of even a casual link between porn and violent sex crimes and the exploitation of women and children is enough for me to feel comfortable in my pro-censorship views. Also, I’d really like to know if the mainstreaming of porn and raunch culture is skewing how men view women (and how women view themselves) and sex and their expectations.  I always remember when I was teaching high school in London in the early noughties and the teen girls were coming to school with playboy pencil cases and related merchandise. Most of them had no real idea what Playboy was. I thought it was quite worrying that the Playboy brand had been mainstreamed.

    • Criminologist says:

      08:14am | 03/06/10

      There has been no causal link established between pornography and violent sex crimes.  There might be a ‘casual’ (sic) one, but definitely no causal link.

    • Larry says:

      08:57am | 03/06/10

      The only causal link that could possibly exist would be a circumstantial one.

      ie a perosn who liked porn who also happened to be a rapist. One does not cause the other other.

      While Ted Bundy did think his use of porn fuelled his rampages it does not mean that porn is to blame or porn caused it.

    • Dan says:

      09:20am | 03/06/10

      Criminologist is right. There is no proven link between portn and violent sex crimes.

      As for Playboy; what is so bad with it being mainstreamed? The fact that you bring up Playboy shows that, like alot of pro-censorship people, you don’t understand that porn comes in all numerous different categories and levels. There is a massive difference between a Playboy magazine, which merely features pictures of naked women, and ultra, ultra hard-core porn, which whilst legal is actually quite horrific. I don’t see anything wrong with the Playboy brand being mainstreamed. Ultimately, it is no ‘worst’ than most women’s magazines.

    • Criminologist says:

      09:24am | 03/06/10

      Ted Bundy’s claim to being driven by porn has been determined to be false and yet another attempt by him to manipulate his situation.  He claimed the pornography cause and asked that he be studied as a living example of it causing his crimes. It was a ruse in yet another attempt to prolong his life.  He also made another claim that he should be allowed to become a serial killer investigator, because after all, he had the necessary expertise.

    • Zeta says:

      10:21am | 03/06/10

      There is no ‘causal’ link between pornography and violent sex crimes as Criminologist said, and no real ‘casual’ link either.

      What there is, is a dramatically higher proportion of sex criminals caught in possession of porn. I can’t remember the exact figure off the top of my head but I think the Australian Crime Commission put out a very helpful research paper on it a few years ago.

      Now interestingly, while the number of violent sex offenders caught possessing pornography was high, the number of them possessing pornography depticting non-consensual sex was low, and the number caught possessing illegal pornography containing actual non-consensual or otherwise obscene sex acts was lower still.

      The ubiquitous nature of pornography, globally, a multi-billion dollar a year industry means that there might not be a link between porn and crime at all. Since so many people consume pornography, it’s probable that many criminals will have pornography in their possession. Think about the ubiquity of the iPod. 80 per cent of the worlds mp3 players are now iPods. Which means a high proportion of sex offenders probably own an iPod as well. But we don’t blame Apple for sex crimes.

    • Dan says:

      11:29am | 03/06/10

      The reality is that even if Bundy was driven by porn (and I’m not saying that he was), it’s only because he wa susceptible to it. It’s like video games. Should we ban video games because a few gamers have committed murder?

    • BTS says:

      11:50am | 03/06/10

      What have you done with Zeta?

    • What about the brain says:

      12:41pm | 03/06/10

      While there may be no causal link, I do think you need to take into account brain development. I personally believe, and I may be being naive here, that children under 14 shouldn’t be exposed to it. You know 15 an 16 you’re curious so you’re going to look. But all these boges out there deliberately showing their kids (As young as 7 and 8) so they can be cool, I don’t think is healthy. And everything in moderation is always a good rule.

    • KH says:

      12:58pm | 03/06/10

      Wow Zeta - way to use spurious logic.  Seriously? No link at all? Which came first do you think? I’ll bet money it was the porn…......

    • Emily says:

      01:17pm | 03/06/10

      I wasn’t referring to a causal link.  I think that Dan is right with Playboy being no worse than some women’s magazines. There’s a great book by Ariel Levy called Female Chauvanist Pigs that talks about the mainstreaming of porn and raunch culture and how that is affecting young women.

    • BTS says:

      07:56am | 03/06/10

      Oh, the delicious irony, having issues with pornography and yet working for a company that lives off the stuff.

    • Pete says:

      08:19am | 03/06/10

      Who’s that BT?

    • BTS says:

      09:58am | 03/06/10

      Pete,

      I answered, but they won’t publish it.

    • K says:

      08:39am | 04/06/10

      Most porn on the internet is downright aggressive and very rape-oriented.Why would i want to acccept that as part of my sexuality?
      It’s quite narrow on sending the message of sexuality as a positive one-It’s hardly the ‘range of sexuality’ it claims to promote.
      Dont other males think that the marketing of women to men is an obvious joke to us all? That men are being ripped off as emotionless bores or mind-numbing wankers? It’s consequently very boring, and very repetitive dross.
      I dont want to impose my girlfriend with any of that lack of intimacy.
      Not to mention it’s not sex- who wouldn’t prefer passionate real sex?
      I am sure some men think it’s a guide to bedroom antics- but it’s such an abusive, unrealistic, snore-fest. Men are allowing themselves to not be part of the process of sexuality. It’s not just scary but sad also.
      Just because it’s an overwhelming feeling does not mean it cannot be
      emotional and given considerate thought-this is in fact more manly -
      David Beckham would be a man that understood this.
      As for ‘no causal affect’ -(right)! was “THE RESEARCH” funded by the mafia- the porn industry front-runners? Most child abusers use porn,make porn, use porn to jusitify their copying the images,
      many are exposed to videos too young (aboriginal communities getting tax-payers ausStar porn channel for one, there the rape/violence is dreadfully criminally rife) Many rapists blame the existence of such material on their own stupidity to act on and not think for other’s concern. It’s also getting more common. Anyone with a brain can see that there are definate bridges to criminal behaviour.
      If it’s seen on TV/Internet many believe that it has been sanctioned, and
      it’s not a clear message when dodgy violent movies late at night are played next to phone-sex’adult’ imagery in an exploitative manner.
      Porn has no message of intimacy.  It’s as if only wankers and rapists rule the sexuality card-but I ‘m not happy as a man with that.
      It does assume that everyone wants and does have ’ that sex’, but it’s not that term-Abuse and Defilement definately would be more of an appropriate phrase. And that’s probably what a woman has every right to worry about- any jealousy can also be paid- do we like our girlfriend looking at other guys ? Are we that strong ? No.

    • Adam Diver says:

      01:37pm | 04/06/10

      K Says

      “Most porn on the internet is downright aggressive and very rape-oriented”

      Where do you get this from other then the giant assumption you just made. There is so much porn on the internet (in ral life as well) that to make any generaly assumptions is as stupid as my friend when I was 13 saying “I have seen all the porn on the internet”.

    • Runs with Scissors says:

      05:01pm | 08/06/10

      Well said K. Sex with a man who learned everything he knows about sex from porn isn’t particularly enjoyable.

    • A note says:

      08:15am | 03/06/10

      Generally the point is missed,most porn contains men and shockingly enough women,whether or not either party is paid or just a willing participant is irrelevant, both parties are willing,consenting adults. As far as relationships are concerned if one party feels they are being exploited they should summon the courage and leave.The assumption that only the male gender is capable of exploitation or manipulation is an ignorant,selfish,narrow folly expressed by one unhappy with their lot and lack the courage to change their life,a sad tale the neolithic feminist,and well forgotten

    • Tim says:

      08:52am | 03/06/10

      What? You mean all females aren’t oppressed and dominated by men?
      That it is possible for them to make decisions that *shock horror* feminists may not like?
      Well I never…....

    • BTS says:

      09:05am | 03/06/10

      Oh come on A note,

      Everyone knows that feminism can’t survive unless women are portrayed as the victim!

    • Stephanie says:

      11:50am | 03/06/10

      BTS, every woman in the world has a different understanding or point of view or interpretation of what feminism is now-a-days.. normally whatever’s convenient at the time smile but I thought the original idea was to empower women, but all I seem to read from feminists on not only this post but the punch in general is that women are victims… its pathetic!

    • T.Chong says:

      08:22am | 03/06/10

      Way , way back in the late ‘80s-mid 90s I worked with a bunch of gals who were great readers of Lesbians On The Loose - “Lottle” to its fans.
      Amongst the usual hate pieces about men, there were articles about how bad men were for watching porn - degrades women, violence etc, at the same time “Lottle” often ran ads and articles for “Wymmins visual erotica “- just as explicit porn, by another name, but considered legit and empowering,because the editor said so.
      One persons “porn” is another persons “visual erotica”  LOL.

    • !Navel_Gazing_BOOL says:

      08:22am | 03/06/10

      Claire makes the primary function of species seem like the contents of a dull Public Service report.

    • Bob H says:

      09:22am | 03/06/10

      A public service report with a reference to Oprah, quality.

    • Caz says:

      08:30am | 03/06/10

      I think people need to try and chill out a bit. Both men and women should try and see it as “fun” rather than an “issue” between the sexes. There is such an array or porn out there of all sorts of styles and fetishes! Of course most of it will not fit your particular tastes. But I bet there is something out there for you and your partner.

      Get curious about what you like and what your partner likes. You don’t have to like all the same stuff but maybe you will enjoy some things together and that will be fun!

      I really don’t get upset that my partner looks but I do get upset if he hides it and lies about it. I want in! I want to share and be a part of it. But realistically I can’t be there EVERYTIME he gets horny! As long as when we are together we share and play and have fun together.

      Porn should be a sex toy. It’s something to have fun with either alone or together. It should not be a stress or something to get jealous about.

    • adiccted to porn says:

      09:54am | 03/06/10

      I don’t think it is just a bit of “fun” for all the women involved in the making of this porn. It is getting more degrading and rough with time.

      Maybe people should see the Oprah episode about the young girl who made a few porn films and about her terrible experience and how she was basically drunk and tricked into it.

      Its not just a bit of ‘fun’ for the men who have become addicted to porn. Some women may not be awake to how much many men are into porn and may not get it but there is a lot more of it going on behind the scenes now that it is only a click away.

    • Stephanie says:

      12:00pm | 03/06/10

      Awesome, I agree with everything said, you’ve explained it so well… excellent comment!

    • iansand says:

      08:54am | 03/06/10

      I filled in my buzz word bingo card in the first three paragraphs but kept reading in the hope of finding a point.  I was disappointed.

    • Markus says:

      11:03am | 03/06/10

      I summed it up to “despite all the reading I have done confirming that many women enjoy porn, and those participating are not victims or degraded in any way, I still get on my moral high horse of shame and guilt because porn makes me feel self-conscious”.
      I don’t think I missed the mark there, did I Carrie?

    • Addicted to Porn says:

      09:13am | 03/06/10

      Carrie you sound very confused. I don’t buy the justification in part that there are piles of people in monogamous relationships watching porn together so it is ok. For every couple like that I would say there are over 100 guys watching it on the side without their wife’s knowledge. And many men now addicted to porn like me and can’t kick the dirty habit. Do we really now want women to also be addicted by justifying porn?

      What are we doing as a society to help these porn addicts (and save the next generation)? Nothing. If anything we are making it harder for us - sluttier billboards, porn magazines in servos, sluttier film clips and adverts, and feminists coming out to justify the porn as ok. The porn vidoes are only getting more hardcore, with the women progressively treated worse. All to feed the addiction. There is nothing good here.

    • BTS says:

      09:28am | 03/06/10

      From what do they need to be ‘saved’?

    • Caz says:

      10:11am | 03/06/10

      This is like an alcoholic saying we should ban all alcohol because of their own afflictions. It is sad you have an addiction and I hope you try and learn to help yourself with that but it’s not societies fault and it’s not everyone’s problem. Not everybody is the same, we all have faults and vices but we can’t expect a nanny state to wrap us all up in wool and save us all.

      We have to learn to live, love and be strong on our own. If each of us took responsibility for ourselves THEN society would be a better place.

    • adiccted to porn says:

      10:36am | 03/06/10

      @BTS I would like to try and save the next generation from getting addicted to porn like I am. If anything things are only getting harder for them. TV shows showing more, new gadgets like phones now capable of HD video, feminists justifying porn, adverts getting raunchier…

    • Markus says:

      11:06am | 03/06/10

      Don’t heap the rest of us in with your pathetic situation, just because you can’t get your hand off it every now and again.

    • L. says:

      11:57am | 03/06/10

      Addicted to Porn says: “I would like to try and save the next generation from getting addicted to porn like I am.”

      Right, so all because YOU have an addictive personality and a problem that YOU can’t control, you think we should all have to go without?

      That is wrong on so many levels…

    • BTS says:

      12:08pm | 03/06/10

      The only thing stopping you being ‘addicted’ is you.

    • Addicted to Porn says:

      12:24pm | 03/06/10

      I am saying that porn isn’t just some ‘fun’ light little thing that some are trying to paint it as. There is a dark side to it including addiction and the fact that the content is getting much darker and more freely available.

    • L. says:

      02:00pm | 03/06/10

      “Internet Porn: Worse Than Crack?”

      No, not by a long shot. Do some reading on rack before posting such hyperbolic rubbish.

    • adiccted to porn says:

      04:42pm | 03/06/10

      L. - that headline might not be the best but I think you should read the actual article at the link;

      “Mary Anne Layden, co-director of the Sexual Trauma and Psychopathology Program at the University of Pennsylvania’s Center for Cognitive Therapy, called porn the “most concerning thing to psychological health that I know of existing today.”

      “The internet is a perfect drug delivery system because you are anonymous, aroused and have role models for these behaviors,” Layden said. “To have drug pumped into your house 24/7, free, and children know how to use it better than grown-ups know how to use it—it’s a perfect delivery system if we want to have a whole generation of young addicts who will never have the drug out of their mind.”
      Pornography addicts have a more difficult time recovering from their addiction than cocaine addicts, since coke users can get the drug out of their system, but pornographic images stay in the brain forever, Layden said.

      “Pornography really does, unlike other addictions, biologically cause direct release of the most perfect addictive substance,” Satinover said. “That is, it causes masturbation, which causes release of the naturally occurring opioids. It does what heroin can’t do, in effect.”

      “Sen. Sam Brownback (R-Kansas), the subcommittee’s chairman, called the hearing the most disturbing one he’d ever seen in the Senate.”

    • Eric says:

      07:13pm | 03/06/10

      Pull the other one, ATP. That’s just tabloid nonsense.

      If it was true, nobody would ever leave their computer to work, eat or sleep.

      And masturbation is bad? Shades of the 1890s!

      If you have some sort of personal problem with porn - which is by no means proven - don’t project it onto everyone else. We’re all doing fine with it.

    • Archie Hole says:

      05:07pm | 09/06/10

      Rigourous. Inciteful. Meticulous. Accurate. Precise. Concise… these are all qualities you should probably endeavour to cultivate in your thinking. BTW you’re cover’s blown; you’re obviously a ‘plant’ from the Hillsong Church.

    • SmithPbuh says:

      09:25am | 03/06/10

      I just find it strange that the very basic nature of our existence, such as sex is still considered dirty, shameful, prohibited etc. One can make a movie about killing, with horrible images but showing sex is a taboo. Even my otherwise open-minded wife finds herself very uncomfortable when we watch a movie on SBS, which shows nudity and some sexuality and our kids, which are both 15+ watch with us. And yet if the movie contains disturbing killing images, divisive political or social issues, which we all may discuss passionately with opposing opinions later on, she has no such discomfort.

      Why are we ashamed of human sexuality?

    • Bob H says:

      10:18am | 03/06/10

      As we evolve away from primitive religions,  human sexuality can have a sensible profile.

    • the apologist says:

      10:20am | 03/06/10

      Nothing wrong with sexuality, it’s just when we pervert it that there’s something to be ashamed of.

    • the apologist says:

      09:26am | 03/06/10

      Hi Carrie,
      I was actually glad to see that although you’ve started from your post-modern feministic perspective, you’ve still admitted (on some level at least), that porn is just plain wrong.
      ‘I feel vaguely embarrassed to admit I don’t like the idea of my boyfriend gaining sexual pleasure from looking at other women.’
      ‘And that means I have a right to my fantasy life, which some days include a secret desire to live in a world where my boyfriend only wants to perv on me.’
      You’ve hit all that’s wrong with porn on the head in your comments - porn undermines sexual integrity & fidelity, and weakens and attacks what wholesome sexual relationships should be - and in doing so, it has destructive effects in our lives more widely.
      There’s something to be said for your comments.

    • Chris L says:

      11:09am | 03/06/10

      And you come to this conclusion because of what evidence?

      Did you read the article? Specifically the line “I’ve read the research that shows no causal link between sexualised imagery of women and the idea that it leads to men perceiving them in a degrading way.”?

    • the apologist says:

      12:01pm | 03/06/10

      Well, let’s be clear about what my conclusion was. I didn’t actually say that it results in men ‘perceiving women in a degrading way’. My assertion was much broader - specifically that porn is destructive of sexual relationships, and that Carrie’s comments were generally reflective of that in spite of her position.

      My ‘evidence’, in your words, was based on tapping in to that intrinsic and undeniable thing we call ‘conscience’. To be more specific - that you can have whatever worldview you want and interpret sexuality however you want, but our God-given consciences just don’t let us excuse what is wrong without exception. Thus my appreciation of Carrie’s comments, there was something there that just struck her as ‘wrong’, and she was embarrased to admit it!

      Let me put my assertion this way to attempt to bring my argument home to you - presumably you have a significant other whom you love dearly (and if you don’t, perhaps you know what it is to love someone else dearly). Imagine you caught said person in a sexual act with another person. Would this not devastate you? Pornography - while not with ‘another person’ as it were, still encourages infidelity with the person you love. That’s gonna have consequences.

      I believe we were created for loving sexual relationship with one other person, and I think things outside of that framework are destructive of it. As I said, I also think Carrie’s comments dimly echoed this truth.

      Cheers

    • Chris L says:

      05:25pm | 03/06/10

      Perhaps that’s the part that men find difficult to understand, the idea of porn being “the other woman”. I have had girlfriends tell me of their desire for Rick Springfield, Richard Hatch (yes I’m that old) or The Hoff, and I suspect they may have entertained fantasies of these gents while satisfying themselves in my absense. It didn’t bother me one bit as I see a big distinction between fantasy and reality. It wouldn’t have even bothered me if I found out they sometimes engaged such fantasies while in coitus with me. I suppose it would have perturbed me if the wrong name got screamed out at the climax, but only if it was someone she knew personally.

      As for conscience, I guess that will be different for everybody. Without having ever heard a resonable argument why porn is bad (mkay?) apart from the possibility that it makes god cry I have never felt so much as a twinge (of guilt) over viewing the subject.

    • Sam says:

      08:10pm | 03/06/10

      Chris L,

      Oh it’s quiet acceptable for a woman to ogle men on television, the movies etc. and fantasizing is perfectly acceptable to the modern woman (some even encourage it) or even the Mills and Boon novel.

      Ask a feminist it’s okay for a woman to do practically anything she wants.  Men can’t because that means women have lost control.  Power is the issue.

    • the apologist says:

      12:57pm | 04/06/10

      Chris, I find myself agreeing with you. I don’t think that there’s ultimately a reasonable argument for porn being wrong (or anything else being wrong for that matter) apart from the fact that it is wrong in light of God’s revelation. Christ did say that to even look upon a woman with lust is adultery of the heart – and I’m pretty sure that the porn industry is basically ‘lust’ capitalised.

      I mostly disagree with your distinction between ‘reality’ and ‘fantasy’. True there are real differences between porn and actual adultery, but in light of Christ’s comments I’m still cut to the heart about it. And I think it does have some significant bearing on one’s relationship with one’s significant other as well.

      In one sense, I suppose it depends on what you think sex is for. For me, it’s pretty obvious: procreation + loving affirmation and enjoyment in the environment where procreation occurs. It affirms and strengthens the love between two people, while providing a stable environment for raising children – an undeniably fundamental aspect of our existence. If I think of sex as i) a way to express love for my wife (her centred not me centred) and ii) a way to raise a stable and productive family, it quickly becomes obvious that in opposition to that, pornography is self-focused. That is, it’s really just me focusing on my needs and urges and looking to satisfy me. It encourages infidelity (certainly in my heart by undermining my love for my wife, but perhaps later in leading to actual adultery) and outright supports adultery (i.e. two people had to do the wrong thing to produce the porn vid).

      When it comes down to it, it’s the heart that mainly counts on matters of right and wrong – to reduce wrong to ‘actions’ is what Jesus called ‘Pharisee-ism’ (i.e. I keep the letter of the law, so my motives don’t matter and I can get away with anything else that’s not ‘forbidden’ legalistically).

      I suppose I could go on, but I know you don’t want a Bible bashing moral lesson, so please forgive me for that. You’re responsible for your own decisions and I wouldn’t presume to judge you or your opinions – that’s not my place.

      Lastly, just because it doesn’t prick your (or my) conscience, doesn’t mean that it’s not wrong. The Bible certainly speaks about the possibility of one’s conscience being ‘seared’ (1 Timothy 4 v 2). I know when I’ve done the wrong thing in the past, you only have to do it a few times before the conscience becomes dead to it. I’ll never forget the disgust and shame I felt the first time I watched porn – wish I hadn’t done it. Regrettably, it only took a few times before my consience was ‘seared’ to it.

      Ok, I’ll shut up this time for real!

      Cheers, appreciate your comments.

    • Archie Hole says:

      05:02pm | 09/06/10

      @the apologist,
      I’m sorry, who or what, is this ‘God’ thing?

    • Julian Thomas says:

      09:58am | 03/06/10

      a wise old man once quoted the saying “amalgamating love & fuck” ain’t easy, how prophetic is that?

    • Conflicted says:

      10:02am | 03/06/10

      Ok… Well that certainly started a heated debate. Carrie, I think your article is honest and reflects the opinions of many, educated females.
      Navigating the ‘porn issue’ with new or long term bfs can be difficult. In my current relationship, I speak openly with my bf about the porn he watches and the amount. He’s a healthy late 20s male, with a healthy sexual appetite. So far, I have remained the apple of his eye, and it hasn’t become an ‘issue’.
      When porn starts to negatively impact on your relationship- that’s when you need to worry. Pornography is highly accessible and free, so therefore almost unavoidable.
      My bf also belives that his access and use of pornography in his life has been educational- he would never have tried many of the things that he has if he hadn’t explored them first through pornography- could it be an educational tool, that is actually improving our sex lives…?

    • Zeta says:

      10:14am | 03/06/10

      There is a two-fold irony to the feminist perspective on porn. The pornography pro-censorship feminists campaigned against, that being produced during the 70s, 80s and early 1990s - although exploitative of women, actually depicted women as being sexual aggressors - fantasy amazons that would put those pro-censorship feminists to shame. Then in the 90s, we saw the emergence of the porn ‘superstar’, of Ginger Lynn, Jenna Jameson and Traci Lords. Go back to 90s, pre-internet porn and squirm through the enourmous hair, American Gladiator outfits and silicon breast implants (the shift to gelatin has done wonders for the industry) and that spirit still shines through. Women in porn take control - the fictional situations they’re placed in are usually the result of their own insatiable sexual appetites - not domination by men (that only happens in German porn). Pornography is also one of the few industries in the world where the women make dramatically more money than men. 

      But as the cultural shift amongst feminists to accept porn started, so to did porn change dramatically. The Internet meant that pornography production was decentralised from ‘studios’ with the equipment, knowhow and contacts to get distribution secured - to the situation we have now where by any one with a web cam, a willing actor / actress and an internet connection can make a video, get it online, and charge for it.

      Porn doesn’t glorify women as the centre of the sexual universe anymore. Go watch an early Jenna Jameson film, and she never leaves the frame. She’s the only one speaking in most films. The men in her films are faceless automatons that emerge from off screen occassionaly to pleasure her, anonymous and irrelevant anyway, since her eyes never leave the camera.

      The ‘internet age of porn’, or ‘gonzo porn’ as it’s known, features rotating casts of women appearing for the porn equivalent of minimum wage. They’re depicted as being stupid, foolish girls who’re tricked into having sex for money. The stars of the ‘films’, if they can be called that, since the average internet porn video goes for no longer than about 20 minutes, are really the men, often the producer who speaks from behind the camera. The style was popularised by ‘Max Hardcore’, who coined the term Gonzo porn and became famous in the late 90s early 00s for filming himself obscenely degrading 18 year olds and performing sex acts that were considered taboo even to the rest of the adult film industry. It’s a telling point that Hardcore, in many ways the pioneer of the modern adult film industry, is currently serving a gaol term for sex with a minor - not exactly the poster child for an industry that worked hard to gain mainstream acceptance for 30 years.

      And yet that’s the kind of porn ‘raunch’ culture is supporting. There are very few ‘strong women’ left in the porn industry - Sasha Grey, the star of Stephen Soderburgh’s ‘The Girlfriend Experience’ springs to mind, but even she got started appearing in cheaply produced exploitative gangbangs.

      Feminists are always going to have debates about porn. I just wish they would actually sit down and watch some so they knew what they were talking about. Because I think if pro-censorship campaigners 20 years ago had actually watched the porn around at that time, their opinions would have been different, and if pro-porn feminists actually went online and checked out what counts as ‘mainstream’ porn today - their opinions would be a lot different too.

    • Mr Pastry says:

      02:49pm | 03/06/10

      How come Zeta is more readable and informative (when not on drugs and just being silly) than any of the contributors?

    • Glen says:

      03:44pm | 03/06/10

      Agreed Mr Pastry

      Do you have a team of staffers foing your research Zeta? Mind you , you probably more easily found volunteers for this one than the Israel story wink

    • Cathz0r says:

      04:01pm | 03/06/10

      Very informative, thanks Zeta.

    • stephen says:

      10:28pm | 04/06/10

      I like Zeta’s stuff a lot, too.
      He knows a lot more than I do.
      But, you can not have an ‘irony to a perspective’
      when enough means ‘What i believe ’

    • Inaroundaboutway says:

      10:19am | 03/06/10

      Sure it’s natural enough to be turned on by porn, but there’s also something ineffably sad about it. The people involved in producing porn might talk about it in terms of choice and empowerment—or a least their savviest industry spokespeople do—but the evidence is there for all to see in the porn itself: no matter how hard they might try, the porformers never look like they’re having a good time. Porn is dehumanising, and sort of unsexy too, because of it’s dumb, brutish literalism. Carrie is right to be ambivalent about it, not necessarily b/c of feminism, but because porn shows only the most prosaic part of human sexuality, and anyone with eyes to see cannot be blind to its corrosive effect on those who produce it and those who habitually view it.

    • Eric says:

      07:15pm | 03/06/10

      Maybe you’re looking at the wrong porn.

    • Jimmy III says:

      10:21am | 03/06/10

      You will never stop men loving it.  It is hard-wired, in the DNA.

      Women have just got to get over it or join in.

      We don’t understand your obsession with shopping and skin care products!

    • Comedian says:

      12:01pm | 03/06/10

      And the toliet seat down business, whats with that?

    • BTS says:

      01:23pm | 03/06/10

      Handbags and shoes?

    • Luke says:

      01:40pm | 03/06/10

      Shoes is the one i’ll never get…
      Hats for the melbourne cup are almost as bad…

    • Isabel says:

      02:44pm | 03/06/10

      “It is hard-wired,” You are correct in this as males of the species - humans, rats and others -  are sexually stimulated by visual signals whereas females of most species are stimulated by more subtle and diverse signals. The male willingness to provide women with the means to go shopping is a good one.

    • James1 says:

      10:32am | 03/06/10

      I don’t like porn.  I think it is juvenile and pointless, and would much rather spend my time learning things I didn’t know than watching such mindless rubbish.  That said, I am not really against it - I find it sad that some people need a fantasy world to escape to, but if they are that unsatisfied with their life, and porn helps, then what harm is done?  Seems to me that some good could even come from it.

    • Comedian says:

      12:00pm | 03/06/10

      James1 says: “I don’t like porn.  I think it is juvenile and pointless”....So I guess then I shouldn’t mention that the above photo attached the this article is turning me on (mouth open and boobies)

    • James1 says:

      12:28pm | 03/06/10

      Comedian, there are many, many, far more compelling reasons not to mention that than my not understanding porn.  Still, thank for sharing (I think?)...

    • Matt says:

      11:51am | 03/06/10

      This was an illuminating article and I am relieved for my sex that even women don’t know what they want. I guess that means that we can postpone trying to figure it out.

      P.S, having said that you had “indulged it”, I didn’t, even for one second, think that you were talking about the front bench of the Liberal party!

    • Comedian says:

      11:53am | 03/06/10

      Porn is good for the soul. It’s not for everyone but it does serve a purpose. Where would the internet or its success be without porn?

      All I need now is to get the wife to make a home video and for all those ladies bagging porn you just need a dog up ya.

    • Peter says:

      12:39pm | 03/06/10

      Porn is good for the soul? It’s like going to church is it?

    • Far Canal says:

      01:43pm | 03/06/10

      Not to side with the people against this issue, but just to clairify , less than 1% of the internet is made up of porn. The majority is purely adverts. Not to say its not on the internet , but to point out that statistic for you.

    • bella starkey says:

      03:14pm | 03/06/10

      @ Far Canal: A lot of those ads are for porn.

    • James1 says:

      03:18pm | 03/06/10

      Going to church is good for the soul?

    • Far Canal says:

      04:03pm | 03/06/10

      @ Bella Starkey , No surprisingly not. The vast majority of it is purely advertising and spam work of the such nature . Given maybe a very small fraction might be for porn , how many websites do you go on that have direct advertising to porn? Unless you are infact on a porn site and it is directing you to more. In the which case you’re already on an explict site.

      Think for a moment , What websites have you been on , just surfing , maybe for recipes or even guitar notes , have had porn on them or advertising on them? And what about adverts for say “Win this breville microwave by answering this simple question!”.

      Its a common misconseption that the internet is all made up of porn

    • Peter says:

      04:29pm | 03/06/10

      @ James1, it’s probably better for the soul than satan worship…

    • James1 says:

      05:19pm | 03/06/10

      Peter,

      Is worshiping satan good for anything at all?

    • Ryan says:

      11:56am | 03/06/10

      I think its time we stopped the crime of telling others what to do, what to think, and what they can and cannot watch in their OWN time.
      I am just sick to the back teeth of this nanny state business, at the same time however, while you are at it, get people to take responsibility for themselves and their actions for a change too will you!

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      12:13pm | 03/06/10

      There are positives and negatives to pornography. The positive is the fact that it’s mere existence infuriates the Christians. The negative is that the plots are pretty much the same, almost virtually no storyline.

    • Jason Virgo says:

      12:21pm | 03/06/10

      I think that it should be a matter of if you don’t like porn don’t watch/read it. End of story.

    • Ben Doon & Phil McCavity says:

      12:38pm | 03/06/10

      Carrie says, ” ......a very common condition: jealousy most likely rooted in poor self-image.” One must not feel rooted, even in poor self-image when, given a choice, one could with self-help, or even professional help, overcome the demons of jealousy, eventually overcoming one’s past roots, in one’s history, one would hope. Tomorrow is only today’s new yesterday. Good wishes from both of us.

    • Greek Snake says:

      01:59pm | 03/06/10

      LOL @ your name. Absolute gold.

      I don’t even need to read your comment. 2 thumbs up.

    • Luke says:

      01:18pm | 03/06/10

      I dont mind porn so long as it remains a private matter…
      I dont like prostitutes on the street… i want them in a building…
      i dont like porn in newsagents in the front… i want them in the back where you have to walk to get it… And i dont want it in reach of children…
      All in all, porn is a private thing… Done it private, sold in private, lightly advertised, i dont mind it all… i dont want to know what porn my friends like and i dont want them telling or even asking me what I should\do like…
      If some regulation is required to keep it “private” then great… do that…
      Other people feel differently…

    • dancan says:

      01:25pm | 03/06/10

      You know I really don’t care what people watch or do within their own homes behind closed doors.  As long as it’s consensual and doesn’t involve children then hey, whatever floats your boat. 

      All I care about is that you turn up to work the next day and do your work well.

    • Mrs Hippopotimus says:

      03:20pm | 03/06/10

      I agree dancan, as long as its legal and the kids are left out of it..who really cares?  Its not my cup of tea, I find nothing at all appealing in it. I would rather read a good book. But I don’t know or care what the man next door is doing and as long as he leaves my good sunday bloomers alone we will get along fine

    • Chris L says:

      05:29pm | 03/06/10

      Yes, but if that book is Twilight or a Mills & Boon novel you’re pretty much engaging in the female version of porn.

    • Zaf says:

      02:26pm | 03/06/10

      [But the simple fact is I do sometimes make negative moral judgements about porn and how it makes me feel as a woman, particularly one that suffers from a very common condition: jealousy most likely rooted in poor self-image.]

      It looks to me like you’re shooting the messenger after anthropomorphising an inanimate object.

      If there was no porn in the world, the poor-self-image would still manifest in response to other stimuli - in fact it probably already does, right?  Otoh, if the self-image was not poor, you wouldn’t respond that way to porn or other stimuli. 

      Please keep in mind that having a poor self image isn’t a moral/intellectual failing or crime – if it was a lot of us would be guilty.  It’s just an uncomfortable inconvenience.  A lot of us are also thus inconvenienced, you are not alone.

      I will go out on a limb and say that what PSI finds to resonate with tends to be fundamentally sexist, because it sits in an emotional rather than an intellectual place.  Men (to grossly generalise) have exactly the same feelings of inadequacy (?) in response to other things (possibly relating to the ability to lift stuff or buy things.) 

      Somehow, they don’t have the same damaging response to pornography which many women seem to – which imho says a lot about the enduring difference between the social/emotional spaces even relatively enlightened men and feminist women inhabit ,and nothing intrinsic about pornography.  To illustrate with extremes: gay men have a different perception of all male pornography (made by and for them) than lesbians have of all woman pornography (made by and for them - if there is any).  I would be really interested to see a feminist study of that in a way that respected the different subjects’ agency.

    • Michael says:

      03:26pm | 03/06/10

      Ever heard the scripted dialogue and acting in one of these movies? It’s priceless for comedic (among other) releif. LOL.

    • Tony says:

      03:26pm | 03/06/10

      Wot?

    • Ronk says:

      04:50pm | 03/06/10

      “I’ve read the research that shows no causal link between sexualised imagery of women and the idea that it leads to men perceiving them in a degrading way. ”

      Hilarious irony.

      Wait…. oh-oh, ...OMG, she might actually seriously believe this (ahem!) “research”!

      I can just see all those blokes mock-earnestly self-reporting to the “researcher”, “oh no of course I don’t see women in a degrading way, darlin”“!

    • Kitty says:

      10:28am | 04/06/10

      exactly! Of course it encourages men to see women in a degrading way!!

    • Ryan says:

      12:46pm | 04/06/10

      Sex in the city encourages women to see men in a degrading way, we should ban that rubbish!

    • mary from widebay says:

      04:52pm | 03/06/10

      Very honest article by Carrie and very disappointing that there are still people, particularly women, who don’t recognise how immoral and degrading porn is .. for all concerned.

      The good old book says that, ‘if one so much as looks at another with lust in their heart, adultery has been committed.

      I second that.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      07:06pm | 03/06/10

      Well that’s the entire male gender going to Hell.

    • BTS says:

      07:31pm | 03/06/10

      So you can look, just not lustily.

    • Markus says:

      08:40pm | 03/06/10

      The good old book also says that at that time of the month, ladies are to be outcast for seven days, lest everything they touch become as unclean as they, then on the eighth day they can atone by bringing two turtles to a priest.
      I second that, though I worry for the world turtle populations…

    • Arthur Spencer says:

      12:55am | 04/06/10

      Mary,

      There is no god and all men look at other women whether naked or clothed.

      I’ll send you a telegram from hell - I’m sure all of us boys will be having a ball down there

    • Stephanie says:

      09:31am | 04/06/10

      ahhhhhhhhhhhhh I was wondering when the Bible was going to be brought into it lol

    • Eric says:

      07:19pm | 03/06/10

      “‘If one so much as looks at another with lust in their heart, adultery has been committed.”

      Really? Even if one is single, and the other is too? I think “the good old book” may well be more harmful than porn, in the wrong hands.

    • iansand says:

      07:36pm | 03/06/10

      It’s actually pretty simple.  People resent their partners looking at porn because it means that they cannot live up to a standard they think porn actors set.  Insecurity is not a feminist issue.

      My theory about porn is that, if you are not involved and able to touch, the whole thing is pretty futile.  What’s the point of watching other people enjoy themselves?

    • Robert Smissen , rural SA says:

      11:00pm | 03/06/10

      Years ago in SA we had a polly Caroline Pickles who campaigned to close topless resturants but also campaigned to legalise prostitution, I could understand that

    • Stephanie says:

      09:35am | 04/06/10

      Labor… nuff said!

    • Chris Oliver says:

      10:37am | 04/06/10

      A few thoughts:
      1) Yes, pornographers sometimes take advantage of people whose lives are at a low ebb, but so do other employers take advantage of people at a lo ebb. Prostitutes, junkies, aspiring models, reckless and uncontrollably horny young men may not want an image from their past to still be in print when they’ve reached middle age and their kids are adolescents wanting masturbatory material. But that specific harm is insufficient reason to ban anything, to criminalise its possession and production, and create a black market.
      2) Pornography may be destructive of relationships, diverting people from the mutual act of lovemaking, but it may sustain companionate relationships in which one partner can’t or won’t make love, and for single people, the masturbatory outlet it provides may discourage real-life predatory behaviour even if it maybe encourages objectification and loss of empathy.
      3) Even if pornography encourages objectification and loss of empathy, it’s not obvious that the most puritanical societies on earth - Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and so on - are kinder to women and that banning porn won’t have undesirable effects. Surely the drift towards less censorship, including what some call the hypersexualisation of media images, has increased women’s freedom to dress as revealingly as they like in real life?

    • Eric says:

      07:04pm | 09/06/10

      Well said, Chris!

    • Kris says:

      11:30am | 17/09/10

      Personally I feel the pornography industry has many faults and bonus, as a woman I can see the appeal of porn but it was never really something I personally enjoyed. Nor do I have a problem having my partner watching it, we are not going to find one person attractive for the remainder of our lives! 

      However the expansion into more perverted areas of interest in the industry is disturbing to me(2 girls 1 cup anyone?). Enjoy all the porn you want but when it starts to “cross the line”  thats when you have to question the impact of the availability of porn and the areas it has expanded into.

    • Jackie says:

      07:57pm | 16/08/11

      Hey Carrie,

      I worked for 2 years as a receptionist in a Melbourne brothel and have watched many hours of porn. The main problem I had with the porn that I was subjected to is the lack of condoms used. Clients would sit in the intro room and ask for what they saw in the porn. Every shift clients would ask to have sex without a condom or ask if they could pay extra for it, even though it was totally “against policy”.

      I don’t have a problem with the idea of porn if it is respectful towards women. Most of it isn’t and is degrading towards women. Having worked in the sex industry I know that it does influence behaviour and the expectations of women. It’s a huge industry and is mostly unregulated.

      I watched a program last week about the business of porn. There are now women directing porn and starting their own production companies which is hopefully a step forward.

    • Free Love says:

      05:02pm | 13/02/12

      I think men look at porn because they don’t feel free to have sex with as many women as they would like. I think women are frustrated for the same reason, but they deny it better.
      Some women are uncomfortable with porn because they are afraid of their man lusting after other women and they want to control their man’s sexuality. By doing this they think they will have the security they crave, and need if they have children.
      Perhaps the problem lies in our contruct of monogamy. It doesn’t work and it isn’t who we are.
      I’m a woman, I love sex, I love men, I love my body and who I am.
      I would like to have more relaxed, open, loving, physical connections with people. I wish we weren’t so hung up about sex.

 

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