This is the second instalment of Penbo’s series of columns for the Herald-Sun on what Australia really thinks of Victoria.

In his first year as prime minister the rugby league-loving St George Dragons fan John Howard was the unlikely winner of the 1996 parliamentary press gallery AFL footy tipping competition.

Slap-happy: An AFL melee in all its effete horror. Photo: Wayne Ludbey

The rules required the winner to put a sizeable amount of cash on the parliamentary bar. Before a boozy throng of journos, Howard gave a terrific off-the-cuff speech which belied his league pedigree and offered some thoughtful and charitable insights into the place of Aussie Rules in our national identity.

Even though Howard doesn’t care for the game – he refused to barrack for the Swans in that year’s grand final because he didn’t want to seem a bandwagon-jumper – the PM said Aussie Rules was the only football code in Australia which transcended class and ethnicity.

He said league was traditionally a working man’s sport played by people in public housing, union was the preserve of the private schools and unis, soccer often split along ethnic lines, but Aussie Rules attracted players and fans from across the divides of income and ancestry.

Howard stopped short of calling Aussie Rules the national code, much to the annoyance of the assembled reporters from The Herald-Sun who with typical Victorian boosterism wanted the PM to recognise the unmatchable greatness of the game. Howard argued that Australia comprised many codes, that there was no dominant version of football, that they all combined to give us our sporting character.

Not in Victoria they don’t. If Aussie Rules is central to the character of Victoria, it is also central to the perception the rest of Australia has of Victoria.

Speaking as a South Australian, it was Victoria’s dominance of the game and its parasitic draw on talent from SA, WA and Tassie which underscored our generalised hostility towards Victoria and Victorians.

I remember cramming into a squalid Adelaide sharehouse with about 20 mates madly cheering the West Coast Eagles against Geelong in their successful 1992 and 1994 grand final wins. We were Sandgropers for the day, such was our enthusiasm to see Victoria denied the flag. This parochialism was epitomised in the souvenir T-shirt the Coopers brewery made the week before the Crows beat St Kilda in the 1997 GF: “This Saturday we’re making Victoria Bitter.”

When John Howard made his speech about Aussie Rules in 1996, the AFL wasn’t truly national. Port still hadn’t entered the comp, premierships were yet to be won by the (Sydney) Swans, the Crows and the Power, and the plans for second teams in Queensland and NSW were years away.

With all these subsequent milestones the AFL has become more national and the antipathy towards Victoria in states such as SA and WA has lessened, in no small part because every week of the season is now a de facto state of origin week.

In the non-AFL states of NSW and Queensland – their correct description, as despite the inroads made by the Swans and Lions, league is still supreme – Aussie Rules is still seen as ponsey and self-important. League purists deride the game as aerial ping pong and refer to it as GayFL.

Next year will see the biggest sporting franchise battle in years with the inception of the 18th AFL club, Greater Western Sydney. As someone who lived in Sydney for 12 years, and who edited the league bible The Daily Telegraph for almost four, I’m sceptical as to whether the club will be a success. It will win sponsors, it has already driven up the value of the TV rights, but whether it meets the ultimate test of winning fans is the great unknown.

It’s a bit like the war in Iraq, with the AFL cast in the role of the US – big, cashed-up, all powerful, but deeply hated by the nuggety local resistance in the form of rugby league, which might often be disorganised but knows how to fight dirty on the ground.

In Sydney, there are plenty of people who aren’t league fanatics but are still death-riding the AFL as it seeks to establish a foothold in the city’s western heartland. A lot of people in Sydney regard the AFL as smug and arrogant and hate the way its fans deride rugby league as being the code for working-class deviants and drunks, versus the apparent moral superiority of Aussie Rules. It’s a sentiment I share as in recent years AFL has often been every bit as scandalous as NRL in terms of player behaviour, racial problems, attitudes towards women.

The difference between the scandals in the AFL and NRL often reflects the difference in style between Melbourne and Sydney. In Victoria scandals are downplayed, in Sydney they are amplified. Victorians rally around the AFL for the good of the game, and argue that player scandals shouldn’t detract from what’s happening on the park. In Sydney the games can often seem secondary to the scandals as the media and public throw themselves into discussion over whether league can ever recover from the latest player drama or administrative cock-up.

But the one thing which defines AFL – and defines Victoria – is a quality which every other code in the land would kill for.

Footy in Victoria is the great unifying force. In all my years in Sydney, even while editing its rugby league bible, I was struck by how little general chat there was with mates and colleagues about the weekend’s league games. With the exception of State of Origin, there was little water cooler conversation about the Eels-Sharks clash, or Benji Marshall’s amazing try at Leichhardt Oval.

Come to Melbourne and walk into a Collins St boardroom, a boutique in Toorak, a kebab shop in Brunswick or a feminist bookstore in Fitzroy, and everyone will be talking about whether after their win against the Cats the Bombers are the real deal.

This endearing and quirky characteristic is more than anything the definition of what it means to be Victorian. It’s a galvanising community force, and it contributes to Melbourne’s superiority as a city over Sydney, the subject of my column next Monday.

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    • S.L says:

      06:13am | 18/07/11

      The AFL heirachy have kicked many goals for their sport and good luck to them but as a New South Welshman I find a lot about Victoria is very insular.
      My paternal grandmothers family hailed from Camperdown in rural Victoria. One Aunty lived in Moonee Ponds so from the time I knew what VFL (in the 60s) was I had a soft spot for the Bombers. The funny thing though is all us relatives north of the border travelled south but they never travelled north. The only place my late uncle saw outside Victoria was North Africa in WW2.
      Pick up the Telegraph today and you have League, Union and AFL stories. Pick up the Herald Sun and you get AFL, AFL and AFL! No wonder it’s always general coversation in Victoria, there’s nothing else to talk about!
      And before the AFL fan club start spruiking how great their game is I agree with your trepidation Penbo on how GWS will go in a hostile environment.
      As for the Swans…....................who cares!

    • Mitch says:

      04:17pm | 18/07/11

      Maybe you should read the Herald-Sun more than once then.  The Storm get plenty of coverage (and received a lot more when they dominated the NRL prior to the salary cap scandal) in the HUN, which isn’t particularly surprising since News Ltd own both.  Even The Age gives NRL about the same amount of space as you’ll find for the AFL in either of the Sydney papers.

      And GWS aren’t there to win over already diehard league fans, it’s there to win over their kids.

    • TChong says:

      08:07am | 18/07/11

      AFL and Rugby League are as good as each other, and along with cricket, are THE national sports.
      Union almost as good, soccer doesnt rate a mention at all.

    • Warren says:

      09:55am | 18/07/11

      It’s tough trying to work out which sport involves less skill, AFL or Rugby League?

    • fml says:

      10:01am | 18/07/11

      The afl does not transcend all that was mentioned, only football, the real round ball football does.

    • Tim says:

      10:22am | 18/07/11

      fml,
      your sentence shows why Soccer will always be Soccer in this country.

    • mike j says:

      11:32am | 18/07/11

      The only objective measurement of the popularity of a sport is its fan base. As such:

      Football/soccer > cricket > rugby union > rugby league > netball > lawn bowls > curling > tiddlywinks > AFL.

    • Alfred Deakin says:

      01:59pm | 18/07/11

      mike j - that tiny fan base must be the reason AFL crowds are much bigger than the crowds for all those other sports, and why the TV people have paid the AFL record amounts for the rights.

      An AFL crowd in Melbourne of 20,000 is regarded as a calamity. An A-League or NRL crowd of 20,000 is regarded as a miracle.

    • mike j says:

      02:33pm | 18/07/11

      Alfred Deakin: “AFL crowds are much bigger than the crowds for all those other sports”

      Excuse me? Football World Cup 2010: 26 billion viewers @ 400 million per match. 2011 Cricket World Cup final: 68 million. 2011 Rugby World Cup: expected to have 4 billion viewers.

      2010 AFL final? 3.6 million.

      Having the market share (barely) of a population of 20 million in a world of 6 billion is hardly an achievement. There’s life outside Melbourne, mate.

    • Bilby says:

      03:04pm | 18/07/11

      Why do we always go down the same road? If you have to look OS to find larger figures, then your argument is invalid. We Australians don’t go to the soccer, we don’t go to rugby league, we don’t even have a local premier rugby competition. The fact that other people like soccer is of no relevance what so ever. It’s all “global village” when you need the numbers, but the facts remain that the AFL is the most popular spectator sport in Australia in terms of attendance and membership. The norms that follow other sports like to talk the talk, but actually getting off their donkey and getting to a game is too much effort.

    • Shane* says:

      03:25pm | 18/07/11

      Soccer is a brilliant game with a fundamental flaw (diving and primadonna players) that will stop it ever gaining mainstream traction in Australia.

      Cricket is a colonial game that only succeeds in real terms because of the subcontinent.

      Basketball (The world’s #3 sport and ahead of #4 by a country mile) is poised to take the #2 mantle sometime in the next century thanks to China.

      The simple fact is that there is too much money in Soccer and Basketball for the local codes to be able to hold them off indefinitely. I think Australia would be best served focusing on cricket over the next hundred or so years.

    • mike j says:

      04:37pm | 18/07/11

      Bilby: “If you have to look OS to find larger figures, then your argument is invalid.”

      WTF, homie? You have a precedent for that… dubious principle?

      “We Australians don’t go to the soccer” - Given it’s the largest participation sport in Australia, I’d say the soccer mums would disagree with you.

      Shane*: I agree with most of that. Basketball is the example I think AFL should emulate. Americans, like Victorians, weren’t good at anything else, so they had to invent their own games. Gridiron and baseball were big misses, but eventually they got it right.

      Obviously, Victoria has failed to successfully promote their modified version of Force ‘em Backs. Which great Australian tradition are they going to bastardise next? Four square handball? Brandy? Catch and Kiss?

      You go, Victoria.

    • Tim says:

      05:12pm | 18/07/11

      Mikej,
      Golf is a bigger participation sport in Australia than Soccer but I don’t think that golf is the biggest supported sport in Australia.
      Some mothers being too scared to see little Johnny play a contact sport doesn’t make Soccer popular.

    • Alfred Deakin says:

      05:27pm | 18/07/11

      mikej

      Compare apples with apples.

      In fact the best supported sporting league in the world in terms of attendance per game is the NFL, with an average crowd of about 70,000.

      Do Americans care that the rest of the world doesn’t play their game? No.

      Do I care that the rest of the world doesn’t play Australian Football? No. I just attend games in the most-attended sport in Australia.

    • mike j says:

      06:56pm | 18/07/11

      Tim: meant to say youth participation.

      “Some mothers being too scared to see little Johnny play a contact sport doesn’t make Soccer popular.”

      Yes it does. Unless growing up in a State with its own sport doesn’t make Aussie rules popular.

      Alfred Deakin: “Do I care that the rest of the world doesn’t play Australian Football? No.”

      And that parochial outlook is exactly the problem. I’m the World Champion of splinter AFL Superleague ‘mike j Rules’. Woopty doo.

    • Alfred Deakin says:

      09:09pm | 18/07/11

      mike j - “And that parochial outlook is exactly the problem.”

      What is the problem? Should people be not allowed to watch “parochial” sports? Should all the Irish Gaelic Football supporters be forced, Soviet-style, to instead only watch soccer?

      I have found that nothing distresses rugby and soccer supporters in this country more than the large crowds at AFL games!

      And I mean people watching the games live.

      Football World Cup 2010: 84,490

      Cricket World Cup 2011: 42,000

      Rugby World Cup Final 2007: 80,430

      AFL 2010 Grand Finals: 100,016

      AFL Grand Final Replay: 93,853

    • Tim says:

      12:30pm | 19/07/11

      Alfred Deakin,
      comparing stadium capacities doesn’t really help your argument.

    • Alfred Deakin says:

      05:04pm | 19/07/11

      I just can’t see why Australian Football upsets people. If they don’t like it they don’t have to go.

      I played Soccer, my kids play soccer - I have watched many games - school, club, A-league, International (not involving Australia) - I follow teams in the EPL, and in the Spanish and Portuguese and German leagues.

      But somehow, unless I declare my undying passion for soccer (because it is the most popular game in the world), and foresake all other false gods (such as Australian Football) I must remain an outcast!

      ps - Netball should clearly also be banned - it is so small compared to Basketball.

    • Robert Smissen of country SA says:

      06:22pm | 19/07/11

      AFL, for Bogans, by Bogans. Why do you think the rest of the world can’t be bothered. The only sport? where if you miss the goals they still award you a point so you don’t burst into to tears, oh did I mention how SLOOOOOOW the game is?

    • Mahhrat says:

      08:18am | 18/07/11

      The thing with AFL is it’s a great game to televise, because there’s always something happening.  It might be 18 seagulls chasing a chip, but there’s something interesting to see.

      Its popularity is because it can be televised.  Nothing moves new TVs in Vic and Tas like the AFL Grand Final.

      The other thing the AFL has is Kevin Sheedy.  Those in NSW probably don’t know it, but he was a real pioneer for bringing in people from outside the code - including the aboriginal players that really define the game now back in the 70s.

      I had the pleasure of attending one of his lectures, and the guy just knows how to get people involved in his sport.  That’s why I think GWS has a great chance - Sheedy’s coaching skills may not make the transition to the newer code, but I reckon he was hired more for his ability to get people involved in his club then anything else.

    • verfel says:

      09:53am | 18/07/11

      I would also say Gerard Neesham had great success with Aboriginals in WA in the early days of the Dockers, and beyond….

    • Mahhrat says:

      12:34pm | 18/07/11

      Agree @verfel, but Sheedy was doing it in the 70s.

    • Robert Smissen of country SA says:

      06:26pm | 19/07/11

      Always something happening like18 seagulls chasing a chip, you forgot thumping an apposing player from behind, AFL players have that down to a fine art

    • RJ says:

      09:13am | 18/07/11

      “In Victoria scandals are downplayed…” really ???
      I’m not so sure ...

    • JR says:

      01:52pm | 18/07/11

      ‘Zackly
      I trust Penbo hasn’t seen any of the Fevola, Krakouer, ‘schoolgirl’ coverage.. nor the heath shaw, nick maxwell, tyson goldsack gambling stuff.. nor have any idea how Alan Did"smack” got that nickname..

      AFL isn’t owned by a media empire tho… and where is the coverage of all the non-Storm salary breaches? Oh thats right… only the victorian team breached the cap. The newspaper said so.

    • Phil Osopher says:

      09:29am | 18/07/11

      Like most football games, it is played by thugs who love nothing better than injuring players on the other side and pretend the are ‘real men’ when they come off the frield and proudly show off their bruises etc.
      The screaming of coaches is horrible mentoring for little kids and promotes violence.

    • dancan says:

      11:32am | 18/07/11

      Group hug for Phil

    • Alfred Deakin says:

      02:02pm | 18/07/11

      Actually Phil I think one of the differences between Australian Football and Rugby League is that in general players in Australian Football are NOT trying to injure their opponents in tackles and marking contests. This is why there has been such concern recently about “sling” tackles. In marking contests players often alter position so as to not injure themsleves OR their opponents.

    • Fiddler says:

      09:37am | 18/07/11

      “Footy in Victoria is the great unifying force. In all my years in Sydney, even while editing its rugby league bible, I was struck by how little general chat there was with mates and colleagues about the weekend’s league games. With the exception of State of Origin, there was little water cooler conversation about the Eels-Sharks clash, or Benji Marshall’s amazing try at Leichhardt Oval.”
      Or maybe people in NSW are just a little bit more interesting and not slavishly emotionally attached to a bunch of toffs kicking a ball around? And THAT is what the rest of Australia thinks of Victorians

    • Bilby says:

      10:08am | 18/07/11

      Calling AFL ponsey and self important is just loser talk from little babies. The term GayFL says it all really. Have you left school yet or are you still repeating year 11?

      P.S. Penbo do you suppose that in future articles you could use the correct name of the game? Australian Football, or aussie rules. You know how it looks when Dave insists on using rugby to mean league? Same thing.

      On Topic: On Sunday afternoon I sat with the guys in suits and scarves to my left, the retired couple to my right, the mum and two kids in front, the bikie couple and their mates to their left, the couple with their newborn to their right, the boys and their beers behind and in front. Aussie rules does indeed cut through all stratas of society, and there is never any trouble. This was at the SCG of course, but the credit for such a culture goes to Victoria and the AFL for sure.

      P.P.S Agree with Mahhrat [sic?] Kevin Sheedy is perhaps the best ambassador for any game, ever. Again most people wouldn’t know, but for many years he brought his Bombers up to North Sydney Oval for a pre-season match up and stayed on to give lectures and coaching clinics and the like. He’s a truly inspirational man. GWS scored big time getting Sheeds involved!

    • Norm says:

      10:15am | 18/07/11

      We talk about NRL all the time here at work and with my mates and yes we refer to GayFL as GayFL!

    • hot tub political machine says:

      10:20am | 18/07/11

      Not as Victorian-centric anymore?

      Mate Collingwood still gets to play home, as opposed to home and away, every year. Why?

      To keep the cash in Victoria obviously.

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      12:49pm | 18/07/11

      It certainly is Victorian centric. Apart from Collingwood getting 19 home games, the draft is designed to keep the mediocre Vic teams competitive. The father-son rule is skewed in that you only have to have played a handful of VFL games to have your progeny available to your club, but a ludicrous number of WAFL or SANFL games to achieve the same privilege. Case in point - Bryce Gibbs.

      If the Vics thought they had any chance, they’d bring back State of Origin. It got mothballed because they don’t like to be beaten.

    • Tim says:

      10:26am | 18/07/11

      Wow,
      an article for the Herald Sun that says how good AFL is.
      And coming up next week, why Melbourne is better than Sydney.
      Way to think outside the box Penbo.

    • n_dude says:

      04:23pm | 18/07/11

      And written by a Victorian. Who would have thought?

    • Kebabpete says:

      10:31am | 18/07/11

      The real national game is Rugby Union. Its the only game played at junior levels in every state and the only national team that every state really gets behind. How many people outside of Vic watch the International Rules games against Ireland, and how many outside of QLD/NSW know or care that the Kangaroos are playing?

      The problem though is that rugby in Australia has no national competition. In possibly the worst decision by any boss of any code John O’Neill chose to get rid of the then newly developed national competition that would have taken the game to new heights. So now they have now missed the boat completely and AFL/NRL are expanding their teams/comp year after year.

      The fact that multiple games from the NZ national comp were being shown on TV here in Oz over the weekend is proof enough that the interest is there. Its that lack of consideration that has lead to the lack of depth that saw us get a hiding by the Samoans yesterday.

    • Bilby says:

      10:49am | 18/07/11

      “Its the only game played at junior levels in every state”?

      Do you have a CD? That’s funny stuff!

      Rugby is the domain of private schools in two states. It’s not the lack of national competition that’s holding it back. It’s the lack of interest.

    • Tim says:

      11:24am | 18/07/11

      Bilby,
      you should be ashamed of your second comment.
      The poor player had a heart attack and unfortunately they have had to take him off life support.
      To use that incident as a pot shot at Rugby Union is disgraceful.

    • Kebabpete says:

      11:38am | 18/07/11

      @Bilby, I never said it was played in every school. I merely stated that it is played in every state at junior level. Try finding junior AFL in some parts of QLD and you’ll be laughed out of town.

      And as for your second comment, did you even read the article? The poor guy had a heart attack, something that can happen to anyone in any sport. Plenty of players have been injured badly and had their career ended in all the codes. What about Neil Sasche who was permanently paralyzed playing for Footscray in 1975? Or do you only only recall the things that try to back up your floored argument?

    • Bilby says:

      12:01pm | 18/07/11

      Kebabpete - I’m not talking about schools, I’m talking about grass roots footy. Aussie rules is played at a junior level in every state (and territory), whereas union is limited to two states and has very marginal representation every where else.

      Tim (and pete) - You might want to wait for the coroner’s report before deciding he had a heart attack. The only certainty is that he lost consciousness after a tackle. The heart attack is unattributed speculation.

      Of course there are serious injuries in all contact sports, but recognise that the rugby codes account for more than their fair share.

      If you have to go back to 1975 to find the last aussie rules incident (although I’m not sure that’s true) then I’m happy with that.

    • Tim says:

      12:51pm | 18/07/11

      Yes Bilby,
      why don’t you wait for the coroners report before associating the death with playing Rugby?
      Rugby may have a higher incidence of spinal injuries from scrums but this doesn’t seem to be related to the case in any way.
      Why don’t you ask Jonathan Brown how his face feels today or talk to the many AFL players sidelined for the season having knee reconstructions?

    • Bilby says:

      01:32pm | 18/07/11

      Settle Tim. If you look at the report in the Australian (again unattributed comments) the guy received a spinal fracture and a brain haemorrhage, which considering the ultimate reason for turning the machines off was that he was clinically brain dead seems a lot more likely than a heart attack.

      Brown’s face is pretty dinged up, as was Lloyd’s a few years ago, but they’re both still alive and neither of them are in wheel chairs. You see the difference?

      You tried to slot knee reconstructions in there like there’s some comparison. These days, in a large part thanks to all the knee injuries that do occur in aussie rules, people actually walk out of hospital afterwards. It’s no longer a serious operation.

      Lastly, I’m hardly heading into undiscovered territory by pointing out the association between spinal injuries and either rugby code. There’s nothing radical in what I’m saying at all.

      Why does it upset you so much?

    • Tim says:

      02:12pm | 18/07/11

      Bilby,
      there was no mention of spinal or brain injury in the original article you linked. Just that he had a heart attack.
      You’ll excuse me for thinking using the death of a player on the weekend for a “my sport, is better than your sport” comment is disgusting.
      Spinal injuries in all sports even both the Rugby codes are extremely rare.
      Either way, I think using the death of a person on the weekend to try and make a generalised point is poor form at best.

    • Carl Palmer says:

      01:25pm | 18/07/11

      Hey Penbo, where did you get this beauty from?
      “….hate the way its fans deride rugby league as being the code for working-class deviants and drunks, versus the apparent moral superiority of Aussie Rules.” This is news to me. There is certainly far more “fan behavior problems” at NRL games. NRL supports here at my work agree and don’t take their kids to the game because of it.

      I was in Melb yesterday and counted the number of pages in yesterday’s paper talking about footy. It starting with the front page and continued on the 4th, 5th, 6th etc etc. 30+ pages of footy - front. middle and back… Stats, commentary, stats, commentary - loved it. Can we have the same here in Sydney??? You might also love this SMS I received from my 14 YO daughter who was at the SCG yesterday….

      “Freo playing 2 extra men in defense zoning off LRT – We can’t get clear delivery into offensive 50”

      I can’t wait for the day when a Western Sydney 14 YO AFL female convert sends a similar SMS to her dad in 10 years time.

    • Bilby says:

      02:09pm | 18/07/11

      Aye it must have been a proud proud day grin

    • Baz says:

      05:31pm | 18/07/11

      Yeah - Mr Palmer and his 5 daughters !

    • Carl Palmer says:

      09:29am | 19/07/11

      @ Baz says: 05:31pm | 18/07/11
      I’ll keep it simple for you -  and your point being Mr Boof head? 

      @ Bilby says: 02:09pm | 18/07/11
      No not really.

    • Bilby says:

      12:48pm | 19/07/11

      Tough crowd :-(

    • Carl Palmer says:

      01:42pm | 19/07/11

      @ Bilby says:12:48pm | 19/07/11

      Nah, not at all, hardly a challenge.

    • sam says:

      01:33pm | 18/07/11

      the PM"Howard” said Aussie Rules was the only football code in Australia which transcended class and ethnicity. he did not say way its because you don’t have to think to watch or follow that game

    • ShamWow says:

      02:04pm | 18/07/11

      At the end of the day you are going to enjoy what code you enjoy. Fans of the different codes constantly taking digs at each other doesn’t do anything but encourage separatism.

    • Rocket Surgeon says:

      10:07pm | 18/07/11

      That kind of talk will win you no friends around here! Respectful discussion of issues doesn’t inflame emotions and generate hits and comments. Separatism does.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      02:33pm | 18/07/11

      As long as Collingwood doesn’t win this year’s Grand Final, all is right in AFL land….....

    • Andy says:

      02:39pm | 18/07/11

      The reason sport isn’t talked about in Sydney is because Sydney siders are so wrapped up in their own world that their complete and utter self obsession doesnt permit a convo about anything else. Plus, who cares what they think in NSW. Only they do.

    • andy says:

      02:49pm | 18/07/11

      “Sydney siders are so wrapped up in their own world that their complete and utter self obsession doesnt permit a convo about anything else. Plus, who cares what they think in NSW. Only they do.” hahaha, the irony. it burns.

    • chris petters says:

      02:46pm | 18/07/11

      AFL culturally diverse ? LOL i don’t think you could find a more Anglo-centric sport than aussie rules especially within the media ranks

    • NSW says:

      03:20pm | 18/07/11

      Agreed RE the lack of post round conversations in thugby league. What I have noticed though is games will be discussed…..if there was a fight. This morning two people I work with spoke for for about ten minutes giving each other a blow by blow description of the fight from one of yesterdays games…..with absolutely no mention of the game itself.  In fact, recently I saw a league talk show that had a slow motion montage of fights with eye of the tiger esque music to go along with it. Could it be that fans are just dumb or is it that the game itself so poor that the only thing worth mentioning is when the blockheads punch on?

    • Bemused says:

      03:52pm | 18/07/11

      “Come to Melbourne and walk into a Collins St boardroom, a boutique in Toorak, a kebab shop in Brunswick or a feminist bookstore in Fitzroy, and everyone will be talking about whether after their win against the Cats the Bombers are the real deal.”

      You think so? I’m Victorian. I don’t give a damn about AFL, nor does anyone I know. It’s just a game.

    • Shane* says:

      04:31pm | 18/07/11

      If you live in Victoria, you must not know many people. I don’t care too much about AFL either but I could throw a rock from my office and hit 5 people who live and die by their football team’s performance… and I work in a supposedly intellectual environment!

    • Bemused says:

      01:06pm | 19/07/11

      I suppose I move in different circles to the rabid AFL fans. *shrug* I know a great many people, but none of them have any interest in the sport.

    • Baz says:

      05:14pm | 18/07/11

      I agreed with you up to the last few points.  No AFL water cooler talk here in a big Melbourne-based finance firm.  Almost everyone is an ex-pat or interstater.  It’s all rugby union, some rugby league, but not much AFL.  In fact, as a Canberran / Sydney sider in Melbourne, I have been surprised how little AFL talk is down here (newspapers aside).  No one I know is interested.

    • Michael C says:

      10:40am | 19/07/11

      I find the assertion that AFL scandals get underplayed is somewhat naive.  One simply need look no further than names such as Carey and Cousins to understand that they become almost media managed drawn out saga’s.  We’ve seen the ‘St Kilda schoolgirl’ become a media circus with even Peter Costello getting a run in the Age to warn parents to shudder in fear should AFL players attend their schools for a clinic.  We’ve seen the ordinary efforts of Ch.7 to acquire confidential player medical records to try to undermine the AFLs illicit drugs code - heck, most the reporting on that issue was 2nd rate and anti AFL and lacked even the basic comprehension of the distinction between the 2 drug codes (WADA and the AFLPA ) and that the AFL was running both.

      So, I reject the notion that AFL scandals don’t get a good run.  However, what the author might be confused about is what is obvious if one navigates to the Sports Home page of the Daily Telegraph compared to the Herald Sun.  The DT sports home page is a virtual NRL home page.  The HS sports home page barely mentions the AFL.  Perhaps it’s a function of the News Ltd ownership stake in the NRL?  I’m not sure why the HS seeks online to downplay the major factor that makes sports in a Melbourne based newspaper worth seeking out ahead of any other in the cluttered global online world.

    • Tim says:

      12:34pm | 19/07/11

      Bahahahaha.
      The herald sun sports page barely mentions AFL?
      That’s the funniest thing i’ve ever read.

      http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport
      Really?

    • Michael C says:

      10:52am | 19/07/11

      The author perhaps needs to acknowledge part of the reason why Melbourne traditionally was more ‘united’ around a single league/code.  Simply that it dates back to the 1850s, the game that is.  And Melbourne was but a village becoming a city that was but twenty odd years old.  The Golden era of Victoria that sparked massive growth saw the game and the city (cities) and the state effectively grow together.  It was a time and place thing that was pretty unique.  That in the 1870s Melbourne was perhaps the world most advanced ‘footballing’ culture could well be argued and was asserted by a neutral British journalist of the day (Richard Twopenny - google ‘TownLife in Australia’).  For Sydney, ‘football’ came later, and by that time, the English games of Rugby Football and Association Football where taking on clearer characteristics, and that Rugby would split and provide the RL variant too only compounded the issues of social division in a city such as Sydney.

      Come to the modern era, and what is clear is that Sydney is perhaps the worlds MOST competitive sporting (football) ‘battlefield’.  The NRL claims superiority and yet Sydney is perhaps also the major bastion of Soccer in this country and Union too.  The AFL is far stronger in it’s ‘home cities’ than the NRL appears to be. 

      However, the AFL is not immune and has a constant battle - with a low ‘local’ birthrate and immigration providing the ‘other’ codes with potentially pre-indoctrinated adherants stepping off the planes on a daily basis - the challenge is clearly for the AFL to not stagnate, to not rest on the past and to proactively grow.  And so, in a couple of weeks the 4th installment of the AFL International Cup kicks off, with 18 teams including a couple of debutants, with a womens division, and with the just completed U16 nationals including for the 2nd year running 2 ‘international’ sides - the AFL is doing what it must to survive long term, and that is to ensure that being accused of being ‘Melbourne-centric’ will be only a hollow claim of the ignorant or envious.

    • M. says:

      03:48pm | 19/07/11

      I think what it boils down to in the end is that comparatively - AFL has moved on and is run like a major corporation…it has an extremely well developed top down structure which has originated from its Victoria-centric beginnings…..The board of the AFL have pretty much full control of the professional code right through to grass root sports…...On top of this, Victorians tend to be indoctrinated from an early age into the sport by school, family and the media (i am obviously generalising here so for those who have no interest my apologies)....

      League on the other hand has historically and currently is (until the independant board finally comes into fruition) managed like an oversized local club…...the governing bodies have very little (if any) control over pro clubs, state bodies, regional associations or local clubs…..and the bitter rivalry between the two main states (QLD and NSW) means that few proactive steps are ever taken to combat the professionalism of AFL…...such an approach was attempted in the 90’s (see Superleague war) but was eventually thwarted through lack of support…...

      League has clearly demonstrated it is an attractive sport - continues to grow strongly in Britain and some other western European states - and is very strong in the Pacific…but poor management and bickering amongst powerbrokers mean it will always struggle….....

      Personally - re AFL…I cant watch the sport….I have tried but just cannot appreciate the skill involved….but neither am I addicted to League (constant rule changes are becoming ridiculous). Just my opinion

    • Leatrice says:

      08:30am | 25/07/11

      Heck of a job there, it absolultey helps me out.

 

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