The Prime Minister made a major mistake on Monday when she said “I don’t think it’s the Australian way to have kids behind razor-wire.”

Photo: Colin Murty.

Whether it’s as a deterrent or something else, this has in fact, been the Australian way since the early 1990s. The announcement that more families and children will be moved out of detention centres was accompanied by another, that two new centre will be constructed near Adelaide and Perth.

The rhetoric of nationalism and security were once again set upon asylum-seekers.

The basic assumption in political and public discussion today is the same as it has been since at least the mid-1990s: that the main priority is to prevent boats with asylum-seekers aboard from reaching Australian shores.

As Dr Michael Grewcock put it, author of Border Crimes: Australia’s War on Illicit Migrants, in Australia refugees have “rights only enacted on terms agreeable to the Australian state.”

The federal government has just announced that talks with East Timor about its plan to locate a “regional processing centre” will continue, and there is no sign that this policy goal will change in the foreseeable future, despite the reiteration of their “no children in detention” policy.

According to the UNHCR Australia receives 1.6% of the asylum claims made in industrialised countries, and 0.4% of global claims. This small percentage of global claims represent about half the amount that were received here in the first few years of the decade. Given this small numbers of claims that are made here, why is this such a hot political issue? Where do these attitudes and the assumptions that underpin them come from?

Who controls the narratives surrounding asylum-seekers, who makes them what they are in our national consciousness? Public discussion is by and large shaped by a complex combination of politicians and the press. The agenda of both Labor and the Coalition at the current time is to ‘stop the boats,’ a goal which aligns very closely with the messages disseminated in tabloid newspapers and on talkback radio.

As Grewcock says, the “primary aim is to enable refugees to come solely on the government’s terms,” an aim that has been consistent since the end of the Second World War.

Different mainstream media outlets take different and sometimes shifting stances on asylum-seeker issues. Phil Gledenning, director of the Edmund Rice centre, singles out talkback radio shows as the purveyors of some of the more virulent attacks with talk of “asian invasions” and the like. Newspapers tend not to be as active in attacking asylum-seekers, but nevertheless participate in presenting them as a problem.

Even broadsheets – less know for their populist rhetoric than the tabloids. Recently both The Sydney Morning Herald and The Australian reported that boat arrivals clog Australian bureaucratic systems: asylum seeker security checks verloading ASIO, and prosecuting people-smugglers in the NSW courts respectively.

There is, according to Professor Sharon Pickering form Monash University, a “mundane deviance discourse,” an everyday, unremarked assumption that there is something wrong with seeking asylum, and with the people who do so. Even if they are not an active threat, the implication is that they are to be distrusted, segregated, evaluated and sent away if at all possible.

Every boat ‘intercepted’ suggests a hazard avoided by Australia, and that hazard is asylum-seekers.

A second myth found in mainstream media is that of the queue-jumper who bypasses proper, orderly migration channels.

The notion of the queue-jumper heavily influences negative community perceptions of asylum-seekers, especially among Howard’s “Aussie battlers.”

Australian society is heavily invested in the notion of the ‘fair go’ and anyone perceived as receiving special treatment is likely to be resented and mistrusted.

These critiques are sometimes expressed by refugees themselves, for example, earlier this year statements by an African refugee who said that arriving by boat was queue-jumping and unfair were published in The Sunday Times of Perth.

In the mid-1990s first Pauline Hanson and then the Coalition led by John Howard very successfully played the so-called ‘race card’ and presented multiculturalism as the political correctness imposed on the rest of the country – particularly ‘Aussie battlers’ – by left-wing, inner-city dwelling, privileged elites.

In doing so they made what is essentially a racial issue about class, and took a position which allowed them to erode the traditional support base of the Labor party. Howard’s policies – although it was Hawke and then Keating who introduced mandatory detention – have set the tone for most political approaches since. Labor, having dispensed with the ‘Pacific Solution’ is now seeking to institute a similar policy with its proposed processing centre in East Timor.

For asylum-seekers to be politically useful they need to be talked and thought about as an issue, not as people. One of the major effects of media coverage of people seeking asylum in Australia is that are dehumanised. Boat arrivals are reported, the people on board are only defined by what they are presumed to be doing. We rarely, if ever see their faces, hear their names or are told their stories.

If the exigencies of distance are one reason for this – Ashmore Reef and Christmas Island are far from the nearest news camera – that distance only makes the dehumanising of asylum-seekers easier.

Personal stories like Anh Do’s, told in part on the ABC’S Talking Heads on the 4th of October are very powerful, but they are, perhaps inevitably, the stories of people who have been recognised as refugees, not of the asylum-seekers whose claims are still being processed.

Grewcock remarks that once asylum-seekers have been “dehumanised in that way which the media does very effectively it is very easy to scape-goat them.” This is a process which is “very consciously driven,” he says, and “politicians feed on it.”

People-smuggling and asylum-seekers are intimately linked in the narrative of boat arrivals that currently dominates in the Australian politics and media. Asylum-seekers are guilty by association, and that association ties into to the idea that they are queue-jumpers, unfairly pushing ahead of deserving refugees who do not employ criminals to help them reach Australia.

By concentrating on people-smugglers and emphasising their criminality and the threat they pose to Australia the government, with the help of the media, create a priority that they can then be seen to act on.

The connections between media messages and public opinion are complex. While mass media was once thought to simply ‘inject’ an idea into the public consciousness it is now recognised that every individual in the audience decodes the messages they see and hear for themselves, and interprets them accordingly, forming their own opinions.

This concept is one of the foundations of a democracy like Australia – every individual can make their own decision and contribution. But this only works when different ideas and perspectives are publicly discussed. Overwhelmingly the narrative surrounding asylum-seekers in the Australian media is a negative one which simultaneously creates myths and leaves out facts.

We rely on what we read, see, and hear as the basis for our beliefs about them. When the two major political parties differ on how to achieve their goals rather than what those goals should be, it is often not easy to question them.

When the majority of the media do not speak to the damaging myths or omissions that draw a one-dimensional picture and create a one-sided debate it is even harder.

132 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • Eric says:

      04:59am | 21/10/10

      The politicians and the media are not leading the debate - they’re either following it or trying to stop it. This article is yet another example of the self-entitled elites trying to trivialise the genuine concerns of the public.

      The reasons for public rejection of fake refugees have been explained again and again. You, Helen, are the one who fails to understand the situation, not us. So long as journalists and academics insist on making up narratives instead of listening to what the people say, they will fail to understand.

    • Steve says:

      07:15am | 21/10/10

      I agree with you so much. We build detention centres, guard refugees and clog up federal bureaucrats and the legal system. We also take away the right of someone going through the proper legal process to come to this country.  The problem does not lie in that refugees are coming, it lies in where they are coming from, Pakistan and Sri Lanka are not war torn countries like the Vietnam of old. Sri Lankans and Pakistanis are most welcome here but through the proper process & not Que jumping by flying to Indonesia, then jumping on a boat with kids.  This is the view of most Australians Helen and this is why their is so much interest.

    • Mister X says:

      08:01am | 21/10/10

      ahhhh the fears of the public…...

      Maybe you can use “duck and cover” and you’ll be safe from all those terryrists and criminals

    • The Badger says:

      08:17am | 21/10/10

      wtf are “fake” refugees?

    • acotrel says:

      10:04am | 21/10/10

      ’ self-entitled elites trying to trivialise the genuine concerns of the public.’

      Asylum seekers have a legal right to seek asylum in Australia, and they make up less than 2% of our total migrant intake.  ‘Boat people’ was not an issue until the Liberal Party made it one, in their quest to regain their ‘born to rule’ status! Their promotion of xenophobia is UGLY!

    • marley says:

      12:12pm | 21/10/10

      @acotrel - I seem to recall it was actually the ALP that introduced mandatory detention.  Neither side has clean hands.

    • Eric says:

      12:20pm | 21/10/10

      @Mister X: Meaningless diatribes contribute little to the discussion. Also, for future reference, it’s “terrorists”, not “terryrists”.

      @Badger: A fake refugee is a person who pretends to be a refugee while not. in fact, being one. I suggest the use of a dictionary could improve your understanding of the English language.

      @Acotrel: Actually it was Gough Whitlam who started the refugee bashing, by saying of the boat people, “We don’t need any Vietnamese Balts”. Thus, he managed to make insult two different racial groups at the same time - an historic achievement!

    • Wendy Kennedy says:

      12:30pm | 21/10/10

      Our geographical location precludes us from just willy nilly taking in anybody who just “arrives” on our doorstep.  Take health for example.  We are protected by our isolation from a lot of contagious diseases that run rampant overseas.  We have a right as a country to health check anyone who comes here.  We have a right to require their background.  We have a right to question in any way, their motives for coming, where they are from, what they understand about Australia etc. etc.  I am disgusted that our existing Australians, who have paid taxes, can’t get adequate housing, adequate health care or jobs and believe that they must come first.  If that’s selfish, so be it.  Happy to help and assist anybody who genuinely needs it, just give no tolerance to cheating, door bashing individuals who just “want to come to Australia because they can and because it’s a nice place”.  And no, I am not a racist in any way, shape or form but reserve the right to express an opinion.

    • Mister X says:

      01:07pm | 21/10/10

      Yes, Eric, meaningless diatribes do add very little. Especially from people that only have a Smelegraph level of knowledge of something and only want to impose their ignorant views on everyone else because they are the “silent majority” blah blah blah.

      Don’t worry, I’ll be safe from all those terrywists and people trying to take my job. I have a fridge magnet at home that tells me what to do.

    • The Badger says:

      01:10pm | 21/10/10

      Oh Eric
      You mean an illegal immigrant as opposed to a “real refugee” I assume.

      Let’s just clear up the terminology, because there is nothing worse than having inconsistent terminology get in the way of making your point.

      What is the difference between an asylum seeker and a refugee?

      There is a great deal of confusion about the difference between an asylum seeker and a refugee and often the terms are used interchangeably or incorrectly. An asylum seeker is someone who is seeking international protection but whose claim for refugee status has not yet been determined. In contrast, a refugee is someone who has been recognised under the 1951 Convention relating to the status of refugees to be a refugee.
      The definition of ‘refugee’ does not cover other individuals or groups of people who leave their country only because of war or other civil disturbance, famine, natural disasters or in order to seek a better life.

      So you see Eric, a refugee is someone who was an asylum seeker and who’s circumstances have been acknowledged to be genuine. Ipso facto, there are no “fake refugees”.

      I think that you will find that with regard to the people you seem to want to classify as “fake refugees”, all Australians would agree there is no place in Australia for them.

      Also Eric a dictionary will not help you convey your meaning if you do not understand how to put two words together to reflect the meaning you intend.

    • Daemon says:

      02:59pm | 21/10/10

      In fact, Eric, what the media is doing as a group is continuing in the role they have had in the Howard years as apologists for the government. They are little short of lackeys to the continued refrain “keep them in fear, they are easier to manage”. The issue is not about asylum seekers, queue jumpers or otherwise, the issue is about who comes to Australia, how they get here, and whether we said before they left “you are approved”.

      The saddest part of the whole thing is that the Australian population in general, have their opinions formed, by what they read in the press. Problematically, since there are no longer any real journalists, but rather weary looking old hacks standing by the fax machine hoping someone will send them something to put in front of their sub editor for approval and kick against their days efforts.

      The day the average Australian voter actually takes the time to think about their vote and what it’s worth and how to gather the most value from it, is highly unlikely to come as long as Packer et al continually shape the discussion that we should be having no outside interference, and our breakfast tables.

      Your comment, Eric, about Helen not understanding who manages the narrative actually outlines your lack of understanding of who manages the narrative. Answer me this, when you heard that Packer the younger is making an 18% assault on Channel 10, did it worry you in any way?

      If it did, thank God for that. If it didn’t I’m not surprised.

    • Eric says:

      04:18pm | 21/10/10

      Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

      Nothing new here. Just the same old insults and evasions.

      Come up with something new, guys. We’re over all that guilt-trip stuff.

    • Bron says:

      08:08pm | 21/10/10

      If you speak for the people Erica, then you should get educated first. The very vast majority of asylum seekers coming to Australia are actually determined to be refugees once processed, however their demonisation begins when they are intercepted, long before their status is determined.

    • Eric says:

      12:27pm | 22/10/10

      Bron, when a tribunal stacked with refugee advocates claims someone is a genuine refugee, that doesn’t necessarily mean that person is a genuine refugee.

      In fact, anyone arriving from a safe country such as Indonesia is not a refugee, because they faced no persecution in the country they left. So the vast majority of boat people are in fact illegal immigrants, regardless of what some people may say.

    • Marita says:

      09:11pm | 22/10/10

      @eric does it not matter to you that Australia is in fact breaking the international code of Human Rights the way in which treat asylum seekers? Can you really disregard all the study ‘academics’ have done, on peer assessed research and claim they are making up narratives as opposed to the wealth of knowledge you have gained from what you have heard from our biased news?
      One more question, do you have any friends that are asylum seekers or refugees? If not, I’m going to take a stand and say you probably are not speaking for the public.

    • MD says:

      12:34pm | 27/10/10

      @Marita, not sure about Eric but I don’t care if we break the human rights laws whatever, we are only one of a few that actually let them stay, send them back where they came from we don’t know if their sob stories are in fact true, people lie all the time, why should we accept them when they are not willing to assimilate to Australian culture? and by that I mean learning the damn language and not getting irate and up in arms when we wear mini skirts and singlets

    • Marita says:

      11:04pm | 06/11/10

      @MD. Clearly you need to get with the times. Australia’s assimilation policy ended with the ‘White Australia’ policy which was racist and xenophobic! Ever since 1973 Australia has had a multiculturalism migration policy that states: that Australia is committed to encouraging and supporting immigrants to maintain their “languages, customs and cultural heritage… to nurture these precious cultural assets”. Don’t like that? I got it off the Australian govt. website. That others shouldn’t get up in arms about mini skirts etc and our culture yes I agree. Do some people lie to get to this country, yes probably. But does that mean we turn a very cold shoulder and deny others of their human right, NO! My question to you is, if your human rights were taken away from you (your govt abused you, you didn’t have access to basic needs etc), if you had none, and no one was willing to stand up for you… where would you be? How would you feel? Pretty sure there’s a high chance you’d be dead (before your time). And frankly I don’t want that blood on my hands or my country.

    • Grumpy says:

      10:42am | 02/12/10

      concerns of the public..what garbage. its spin. I wouldnt have given it a thought if the media didnt comment on it every day and doubt many others would either, its something id rather forget! there are people doing their jobs and sorting these things out. Im sick to death of hearing the same crap..blah blah blah blah blah. so goddamn annoying, seriously!

    • T.Chong says:

      05:48am | 21/10/10

      Unfortunately , there are some people who do like he idea that kiddies are locked up.
      ABC did a vox pop with some of the locals at the proposed SA sight, ,and some of the opinions given would have warmed the heart of any KKK Grand Wizard. “They “were going to be all sorts of trouble unless securely locked away.
      The ABC may have only been trying to stir a reaction, and no doubt the hill -billy subset only spoke for a minority, but a minority that sees nothing wrong with locking kids away, and living in ignorance about the ptential danger posed by “Them “.
      The same type of hysteria greeted Vietnamese “boat people”. At the time, so many people also “knew” the Vietnamese were secret commie cadres, just biding their time, much like many now days “know “Muslim refugees are really out to start up a Sharia law based society, the moment we look the other way.
      Same old, same old.

    • Doug Rhodes says:

      05:52am | 21/10/10

      The relatively small 1.6 percent of the world,s asylum seekers is the issue here. If a100 people are seeking asylum, it,s only one and half people,if there were 100 million, well its 1.6 million people,roughly 8 percent of our population.How do you house, educate and employ an influx of this magnitude,you cant. That is why you need a deterring policy.What the actual refugee figure is in inestimable,however I wouldn,t be surprised if it was an extremely high figure.If I was seeking asylum ,I would think Australia was very worthy destination,so I don,t blame them for trying the smuggled route,but in the end if you make it easy, the floodgates will open,so the Policy is undesirable but absolutely necessary.

    • Marita says:

      09:16pm | 22/10/10

      All asylum seekers need process, yes. But that does not justify the dehumanising, racist, bigotry way in which we process or view them.

    • acotrel says:

      05:57am | 21/10/10

      I don’t really know what the conservatives are on about with this ‘stop the boats’ stuff.  I visit Shepparton from time to time.  There are a lot of refugees living there, and they even have a mosque in the town.  I’ve never seen a race riot there, or anyone exhibiting any sort of angst about the newcomers.  Why should we fear the boat people, any more than the immensely larger number that come by plane?  The whole thing is exactly the same sort of politics that Adolph Hitler used in the thirties in Germany.  It’s all about the Liberal Party trying to scramble back into power, and they’re using xenophobia as a political tool.  It’s absolutely DISGRACEFUL! BUt what more would you expect from such a mob of LOSERS?

    • Dianne says:

      07:35am | 21/10/10

      acotrel: You seem to have the bull by the tail. I think and most Australians will agree with me is not the issue of ‘race riots’ or large numbers arriving. It is the contribution v/s resource drain that is the issue. I lived next door to refugees from Africa who were not bad in any way; however in the 3 years that I lived next door, I did not see them do an honest days work! They lived off the refugee entitlements which I am given to understand was way more than a 70 year old pensioner got for giving his blood and sweat to Australia for over 45 years and paid taxes. I am happy if the resources went back to the people who paid their taxes years ago and am happy if it went to infrastructure development but to support a refugee family who reckon its a previlege of being a refugee to bludge is totally not acceptable.

    • Dean says:

      08:33am | 21/10/10

      Oh A Hitler comparison, how original. So your argument is “Someone has a different political stance to me so if i compare them to Hitler that will make me look even more righteous”. Bloody grow up!

    • Jason says:

      09:45am | 21/10/10

      I agree, Dean. The Hitler analogy is getting very tired. It is always used by the lesser intellects with very little knowledge of history. To use the comparison between wanting to deter illegal migrants and the racial hysteria evoked by Hitler’s fanaticism, aided by a heavily depression-affected Germany, is puerile at best. Essentially, it’s the sort of argument used by first-year arts students to demonstrate just how much wiser and more enlightened they are than the hoi polloi. To my mind, it is a disgraceful insult to the millions of people who actually suffered at the hands of Nazi Germany.

    • Aitch B says:

      11:14am | 21/10/10

      @acotrel

      “Stop the boats” is a conservative thing, is it?

      How then do you explain both Rudd and Gillard using the same phrase during their election campaigns?

      You have your eye patch on again!!

    • Richard says:

      11:30am | 21/10/10

      Dean and Jason, its called Godwin’s Law, which states: “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.”

      It is generally accepted that the first person who breaches Godwin’s Law on a discussion board automatically loses the debate. Congratulations acotrel, you lose.

    • Seamus says:

      06:02am | 21/10/10

      Attention Prime Minister:  Stop all this posturing and farting about and do something positive about the constant arrival of ‘boat people.’  Simply put, Australia doesn’t want them.  Start listening to the Australian people and not all the toadies around you.

    • Marnit says:

      12:10pm | 22/10/10

      It’s not about Australia not wanting them. It’s about Australia being a responsible world citizen and taking its share.

    • Andrew says:

      06:20am | 21/10/10

      There are so many things wrong with this article I just don’t have the time to set it all right.

      I really with social commentators would stop telling me what Australian people think and what we are like. We are not a single cell organism. We think differently and have many opinions. Stop grouping us all together. This isn’t “the Life of Brian”.

      Also why is queue jumping a myth? What about the guy who went on TV last year to reveal what was happening in Indonesia, was he lying?

      1.6% of the industrialised world’s claims is a tiny amount is it? Population of the EU is 500 million, US 310 million, Canada 33 million. So on a global basis we are taking our share.

      So much more to say. No time left.

    • Adam Diver says:

      08:19am | 21/10/10

      I will help out andrew. Firstly the queue jumping comment. The author brings it up then does nothing to disprove or prove the fact.

      To help the author out, we have a quota of the number of refugess we take every year. If we don’t have any refugees reach our shores we will reach our quota by going to refugee camps. How is this not queue jumping???

      Secondly what about the report of 70% of sri Lankan refugees returning to Sri lanka? What about the report that no child has been in a detention centre since 2005.

      I guess your point is about de-humanising the issue. Well wake up. What about africa, what about famine, what about disasters, what about murder, what about NT child abuse, what about rape, what about industrial accidents, what about terrorism etc. If we humanise all the issues in our life, we would all be a blubbering mess.

      Not to mention effective policy can not be made by considering every individual involved, its just not condusive to effective governance.

    • Julian Wearne says:

      04:01pm | 21/10/10

      It is not queue jumping because accessing a refugee camp isn’t like Medicare where you can waltz walk in take a number and wait for you turn.

      A queue implies a first in first served order. Fleeing persecution doesn’t quite work that way. Just as you wouldn’t wait patiently in line at a police station while your friend got stabbed in the alleyway outside, it is unreasonable to expect those fleeing persecution where lives are at stake to wait orderly in a queue that does not exist.

      Children haven’t been in official “Detention Centres” but they have been held in detention. Often with nearly identical conditions to those in the centres.

    • marley says:

      12:10pm | 22/10/10

      @Julian Wearne - actually, you know, there most definitely is a first in/first served aspect to offshore refugee processing.

      A refugee by definition is someone who has made it outside his country of nationality.  Once he’s walked over that mountain range, or whatever, he goes to the nearest refugee camp or to the local UNHCR office, and from then on, it is/is bit like medicare - he does waltz in and takes a number.  His claim is assessed, and if he’s found to be a refugee, he’s on the UNHCR’s books.  With a registration number. 

      And if he has family abroad, or the UNHCR otherwise deems him suitable for third country resettlement, it puts his application forward to the appropriate Embassy.  Which also gives him a number.  And begins processing his case, and all the other cases it receives, in order. 

      And the length of time it will take that Embassy to process the case varies with a number of factors, including how many people are ahead of the refugee in their own processing queue, how many people the country is resettling this year and next, and, in the case of Australia, whether the latter number is affected by the number of onshore grants.

    • Commentator in denial says:

      06:24am | 21/10/10

      What’s changed?  The ugly unwanted example of Europe and the UK’s failed social experiment with their inter-racial crime and violence - free movement across their borders facilitating degraded social cohesion in those countries.  Australians know about and do not want those standards and are railing against a similar fate.
      This week Germany’s Merkel conceded that multiculturalism has failed, something that Britons and visitors to those countries have unhappily witnessed first-hand for several decades.  The Netherlands notably and seriously regret their own failed experiment.  Concerned pleas by those populations were ignored by commentators and successive governments.  I doubt there are too many Australians who want our country’s coastlines as a convenient back door for those who make their way to our shores via culturally compatible countries - minus proof of identify documentation.  Destination choosers arrive in Australia from pull factors such as guaranteed taxpayer-funded, overstretched resources and services. 

      We’re all better informed than when the social decline began 40 years ago. That’s what’s changed.

    • Joan says:

      07:33am | 21/10/10

      Australian leaders should pay attention…..social cohesion is paramount, and they should respect the wishes of the majority of voters.

    • KB says:

      06:31am | 21/10/10

      The Germans and Japanese immigrants & their families that had already settled in Australia were held in detention centres during WW2. Why is it only a ‘1990s’ problem? We declared war on a government in Afghanistan that was responsible for thousands of innocent deaths on the home soil of our biggest allie. We do not want terrorist purportrators allowed into Australian society. If you want to be dishonest about your country of origin, your family name & then complain about being detained you are not accountable for yourself & have no honor. Australia feeds, clothes, shelters & gives them basic medical aid & education for their children-all luxuries they never had at home. They will keep turning up unless we can educate & empower them that they are responsible for but that they can also fix their country of origin. Australian soldiers are doing their best to assist them in restoring stable accountable governments in Afghanistan alongside 47 other counties of ISAF. If you don’t believe that’s possible how about you get off your cushy chair & volunteer for hard physical life of an Aussie soldier or an international aide worker? How about you write a column on some of the real issues in Afghanistan & why it is so important to STOP sexual crimes against young boys & the abuse & torture of women & children?  Why encourage criminals to run away from being held accountable? Sheltering those less fortunate is humane, but permitting more displaced people to occur is wrong.

    • Commentator in denial says:

      11:44am | 21/10/10

      Further, the Gillard “team” is gearing up to plonk millions $$$‘s of our money into building two more detention centres.  And I bet they attract thousands more destination choosers who will live in conditions far superior than our elderly are enduring in our run-down nursing homes.  That is, if the thousands of our own on waiting lists and unhappily occupying hospital beds can get into high quality nursing accommodation before they drop dead.
      And think of the money the Gillard outfit hopes to spend in East Timor - well I don’t think local Timorese would like their noses rubbed in high quality medical care, air conditioned accommodation, sporting facilities, free legal aid and pocket money for their in-transit to Australia neighbours .  Encouragement and facilitation of social disruption seems to be a Labor party disease.
      Yes, I definitely wish someone would change all that.

    • acotrel says:

      03:32am | 22/10/10

      Liberal Jack says ’ I’m aboard - pull up the ladder’!  I wonder how many of the vociferous people using terms like ‘illegals’ and ‘queue jumpers’ are more than first generation migrants themselves? I’ll bet a lot of them were refugees who fled Europe after WW2?

    • marley says:

      12:17pm | 22/10/10

      acotrel - I think the point your missing is that a lot of those post WWII refugees were selected and processed out of DP camps in Germany and elsewhere.  Kind of like the offshore resettlement program today, which selects and processes people out of refugee camps in Sudan and Pakistan.  I don’t think people have a problem with a properly managed refugee program of that sort, but the boat arrivals represent a different kettle of fish.

      Personally, I think it is a bit of a storm in a teacup - the numbers aren’t large, after all - but I would definitely like to see a more rigorous examination of the refugee claims, rather than the rubber-stamping that seems to be going on at the Tribunal and in the courts.

    • Archer says:

      07:04am | 21/10/10

      “There are so many things wrong with this article I just don’t have the time to set it all right.” Yes, I agree.
      Now, stop using the word “asylum ” - they are illegals who try to bribe their way into an unsuspecting country.
      “We rely on what we read, see, and hear as the basis for our beliefs” - you may do that but some of us are actually capable of thinking for ourselves.
      You are or naive or stupid ..

    • The Badger says:

      01:25pm | 21/10/10

      Profoundly naive or stupid you are, I don’t know which. Not only do you not have the time to set it right, you don’t have the intelligence either.

      http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/BN/sp/Asylumfacts.htm#_Toc260732947

      find out thanks to the parliamentary library what the difference is between and asylum seeker, a refugee and an illegal immigrant is.

      Then come back, use the right terminology and tells us your thoughts.

    • Moreton says:

      01:44pm | 21/10/10

      They are not illegals, that is the point. Please try to make yourself aware of the facts. The Refugee Convention clearly states people have the right to arrive unannounced and their mode of arrival cannot be discriminated against. It’s one of the main points of the Convention - because a large portion of refugees flee their home country and do not have the time or capacity to apply for asylum before they are raped, tortured or murdered.

    • Enough is enough says:

      03:13pm | 21/10/10

      It is illegal to give money to any criminal in return for an illegal service.  That is why people smugglers are criminals and must be jailed.  This is why so-called asylum seekers entering our waters on boats captained by paid smugglers (criminals) are effectively breaking our laws the moment they enter our waters.
      And don’t tell me the paying passengers don’t know, because they are rat cunning.

    • Marita says:

      09:32pm | 22/10/10

      @enoughisenough… do you not realise that more asylum seekers enter Australia by plane than boat. Are you going to call all our QANTAS pilots criminals now too? Also it is not illegal to seek asylum… it is a basic human right!

    • marley says:

      10:23am | 23/10/10

      @Marita - just to be very clear, there’s a difference between a Qantas pilot carrying a passenger who has been cleared by Immigration for travel to Australia, and a people smuggler knowingly transporting undocumented people.

      That’s not to say the undocumented people aren’t entitled to make a refugee claim, but I do always have my doubts as to why they are undocumented.  After all, they had to cross several borders to get access to the people smugglers.

    • Realist says:

      07:15am | 21/10/10

      We don’t fear the boat people - we fear their cultural and religions belief systems which include sharia law, honour killing, and other bizarre ideas which do not fit into Australia.

    • Ditto Ditto says:

      07:21am | 21/10/10

      Commentator in Denial - well said and I’ll ditto that.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      07:29am | 21/10/10

      It would be different if Australia was a benign environment like Europe or the USA. It is not. We already have problems with the population exceeding the carrying capacity of this land. We need zero immigration and elimination of subsidies like the baby bonus, family tax benefits A+B etc. to stabilize the population and provide a sustainable environment for future generations.

    • Julian Wearne says:

      04:06pm | 21/10/10

      We have one of the worlds lowest population densities, we also have massive amounts of arable land and an abundance of other natural resources. Even our major cities are sparse by global standards. To claim we have reached “carrying capacity” is utterly absurd. Any strain you currently see is due to poor planning and management, not reaching any “carrying capacity”.

      There is only one major resource in Australia that is under real strain and that is water. However this too is a vastly mismanaged resource.

      Only in the last decade or two have we even really started to seriously upgrade our water infrastructure.

    • marley says:

      07:57am | 21/10/10

      It is quite true that the narrative on boat people is a warped one.  Australia gets far fewer undocumented arrivals (whether by boat or air) than other countries - a few thousand a year, compared with the 30 or 40,000 Canada gets.  The dimensions of the problem have been blown out of proportion in the press and on the talk-back shows.

      That being said, the refugee advocacy groups are also being more than slightly disingenuous in their depiction of what is going on.  They present pictures of distraught families, desperate women and children, or young men fleeing appalling situations back home. 

      What they gloss over is the simple fact that fleeing chaos or poverty does not entitle one to refugee status. 

      The advocates also ignore the reality of “mixed movements.”  For the advocates, everyone on the boat is a refugee.  That is simply untrue. It is a fact widely acknowledged by both nations and the UNHCR, that most boat movements consist of both genuine refugees and economic migrants.  It is also a fact that Australia has done an extremely poor job of sorting out the two.  Virtually all boat people get asylum.  Australia’s acceptance levels are far higher than those of any other country - and the question is, why?

      I think the Australian populace would regard the boat people with less concern, were they satisfied that the government was capable of sorting the wheat from the chaff, processing the genuine refugees quickly, and removing the economic migrants even more quickly.  But that is not what is happening.

      Restore some genuine integrity to the determination process, and the boat people who are genuine refugees will find a warmer welcome.  Right now, the inability to separate the genuine refugee from the economic migrant tars all arrivals with the brush of opportunism.

    • Charles says:

      08:10am | 21/10/10

      The hubris displayed by aiuthors such as Ms Young is quite breathtaking at times, and her comment that she knows what the Australkian people think, immediately displays her tin tin ear and complete ignorance of what the Australian people are thinking.

      What most Australian don’t like about illegal immigrants is just that.  These people are not asylum seekers, they are just cashed up individuals from Third World countrues trying to bribe their way into a First World existence. 

      This is exacerbated when you have an organisation like the UNHCR who grants asylum pretty much to everyone who applies, even to those ‘dreadful, scum of earth people smugglers’ who amazingly find themselves granted asylum (from what) in Australia.  So, it is clear to see our bureaucrats are not serving us very well.

      What Australians do not like is being ripped off by a group of people who are essentially fraudsters, and who do take the place and positions of genuine refugees who are left to rot where they are, as their cashed up fellow citizens take they spot they deserve.

      This is probably something Ms Young will never be able to get her head around.

    • bretto says:

      03:17pm | 21/10/10

      Well said Charles. I completely agree.

      I resent being called a xenophobe or racist because I would rather return these cashed up scammers and bring a real refugees (you know the ones rotting in a squalid camp somewhere) in their place.

    • Adam Diver says:

      08:23am | 21/10/10

      Also I don’t like the holier-than-thou attitude of the author. Yes we are all scared of the boat people coming in, burning our houses, killing the men and stealing the women.

      I (and I assume many other critics of current border protection policy) are not “scared” of boat people and if you want to humanize the issue perhaps you could enlighten us to the background, age and stories of the 170+ who have died trying to make the dangerous journey.

      Every issue has at least two sides.

    • acotrel says:

      09:00am | 21/10/10

      And there are millions of boat people on their way here to get our social security benefits, and take our jobs!  We should al be scared - be very,very scared! But elect Tony Abbott and all will be well! - Problem solved?

    • Youdy beaudy says:

      08:31am | 21/10/10

      Australia and America were started off by boat people from Europe weren’t they. Those then boat people were complained about by the American Indians and Aboriginals, but guess what, nobody listened to them. Their solution was that the Aboriginals were classed the same as a koala and really weren’t here at all. It was only through the efforts of Eddie Mabo that the concept of Terra Nullius was removed and lands given back. And it was Labor who gave something back to them, just to make a point.

      Why do we not see that.? This country modern Australia was started by boat people and grew for the whites and others out of the boat people immigration. Aboriginal lands were stolen and later their children also. Their race was decimated by the leaders of he boat people as they shot and murdered the original peoples of this land. Yes everyone, when we complain about boat people then we should look at the history of Australia and America and then form some opinion.

      The cries of the indigenous peoples world wide reached deaf ears in those days and now over 200 years later we whinge and complain because more boat people arrive but we don’t remember that many of the Ancestors of todays Australians were boat people also.

      It seems that is is different strokes for different folks. The fact is that the atrocities of the past must be recogized before this country can move on as a decent nation. All lands in Australia belonged to Aboriginal peoples and had been for 40000 years before the modern settlements came about. So technically the English stole and murdered and lied to get hold of it. Knowing that, it really is a load of rubbish constantly complaining about boat people while living in a country which came about by the constant infux of boat people in the past. We cry out with complaint about these things but we don’t remember that the Aboriginies cried out also, and no one listened or even considered their plight. No point in complaining now.

    • Markus says:

      09:25am | 21/10/10

      Your argument makes no sense. Based on what you have said, we should be arguing louder than ever.

      We know the history of this country, and by your argument if we don’t take swift action now then this country we now know and love will eventually be overrun and wiped out by another race/culture.

      Learning from history so that the same mistakes are not made.

    • Anthony says:

      10:45am | 21/10/10

      Acotrel doesn,t it bother you that they get more money than you are getting on the dole.

    • iansand says:

      11:05am | 21/10/10

      Do they get more money than the dole?  I really don’t know but would be interested if you can provide relevant information.

    • tomboweler says:

      12:04pm | 21/10/10

      Hahhahaha rate that comment @Anthony!

      ‘You Beaudy’ seems to be of that hypocritical school of thought in which all westerners are inherently evil and all other cultures inherently superior by virtue of western culture dominating the globe for the last couple of centuries.

      He suggests that as Australia was ‘colonized’ by europeans with some nasty consequences for the locals, the descendants of the europeans must suffer that same fate at the hands of eastern settlers.

      It is a peurile, mean-spirited and horrible argument; the only thing remotely profound in it is the inherent reverse-racism. ‘You Beaudy’ is probably also found hurling insults and the parents of dead soldiers in canberra from time to time as well for ‘murdering’ the peace-loving islamic militants.

      The problem has never been refugees; shit if I was confident the money would reach genuine refugees I’d match my annual salvos donation.

      The problem is that these boats all come from the stable land of indonesia. Anyone who has reached indonesia is safe from persecution and war etc. Once in indonesia they have reached ‘asylum’.

      I heard a great analogy:
      “Theres nothing wrong with stealing bread to feed your starving family but you cannot justify robbing a restaurant next because steak tastes better”

    • James1 says:

      01:56pm | 21/10/10

      Perhaps Anthony would have a good point, if it wasn’t for the fact that what he writes is rubbish.  Refugees get the same as every dole bludger, and speaking for myself, I think a refugee deserves it more than the dole bludgers, because dole bludgers have no excuse for their situation but their own indolence, whereas genuine refugees are fleeing conflict zones and authoritarian regimes.  To be honest, I would prefer my tax dollars went to genuine refugees than to the long-term unemployed.

      Also, tomboweler, you make some pretty racist assumptions about “eastern” people (whatever that means).  Namely, you assume that they will treat us as the early settlers treated the Aborigines.  That is a peurile, meanspirited, and horrible argument as well.

    • Geoff says:

      03:43pm | 21/10/10

      Youdy beaudy

      Oh and you need to apologise to me and give me money because your ancestor ug belted my ancestor ogg over the head for his woman and cave. Remember, you need to feel guilty for something someone in the past did. Seriously though, why do we need to feel guilty for something we didn’t do, to people who have not had it happen to them?

    • thatmosis says:

      08:33am | 21/10/10

      Ive a very simple way of moving the boat people out of immigration centres that wont cost the Australian public a cent.
      Let all the bleeding hearts take them into their homes and look after them with their own money whilst the monies that would have been spent on these people is used for our own homeless and underprivileged.  Problem solved and Im sure the bleeding hearts would agree to this as they are the ones bleating about the poor immigrants arent they. Other than that send them all back whence they came and not on airlines but RAFF planes so as not to get them used to any luxuries.

    • Trish says:

      12:57pm | 21/10/10

      Only if you agree to take in the homeless and underprivileged into your own home as well.  Deal?

    • Tom says:

      02:49pm | 21/10/10

      Sorry Trish, you are the bleeding heart, not me. You’re the one that wants to spend other people’s money to give you a smug warm fuzzy glow, I don’t. Try spending your own money for a change, not mine.

      BTW: word “underprivileged” is so over-blasted by your ilk in “Slogan-world”, it ceases to have any meaning.

    • Leto says:

      03:43pm | 21/10/10

      You don’t have a simple way of doing anything; you are simple.

      P.S. It’s RAAF for Royal Australian Air Force.

    • Sherlock says:

      08:43am | 21/10/10

      I’m having trouble even understanding what the writer is trying to say. It just looks like the typical leftie rant with absolutely nothing resembling any sort of answer to what is a very complicated problem.

      Is the author suggesting that we open our borders to absolutely anyone who can get here by any means? If that’s the case then everybody breathe in because we’re gonna need the room especially in Sydney.

      While I’m sure they exist I have yet to meet somebody who thinks Australia should not accept refugees. Yet the left thinks we should accept those people who have the resources to pay what may be many years typical income to a people smuggler.

      The left whines about inequality of wealth yet want to give the relatively wealthy among the refugees special consideration while the poor, who are forced to follow due process, die waiting in the camps.That’s apparently the left’s idea of equality.

      I think there is a very good argument that Australia should accept more refugees. In fact I think we should send all the boat people to overseas refugee camps and than take in two refugees from the camp for every queue jumper we send back there.

      Watch the boats stop then while Australia takes in even more refugees and isn’t accepting more refugees what we shuold be aspiring to?

      Australia is always going to only accept a limited of refugee. Every person that has the resources to pay to be smuggled in Australia that we accept is one less we can take from those waiting their turn

    • Nicole says:

      08:43am | 21/10/10

      Ahhh, you say there is no queue? Well I’m sure you’re well aware that we take in x amount of refugees each year, so when these people arrive via the back door, they inadvertently push x amount of refugees, who have been waiting in camps, some for many years, back. Now, do you really think that’s fair? I sure as hell don’t. So, lets hear their stories of suffering.

    • Reginald Cornwright, Esq. says:

      08:45am | 21/10/10

      Madam,

      I must contend that there is considerable merit in allowing more of those of Pashtun extraction into the country. Without wanting to delve into the vagaries of international law and refugee policy, it is clear to me that the younger generation of this once great nation lack the gumption necessary to ensure the persistence of such greatness - the ANZAC spirit, if you will. As such, I am fully in favour of allowing the Pashtun - a proud race whose land has not once been conquered despite facing the might of the USA, the USSR and even the great British Empire - into this country in greater numbers.

      The youth of this country could do a lot worse than to follow the example set by the fierce warrior that is the Pashtun, and what better way to achieve this than have them living in close quarters, perhaps even receive training off the Pashtun? Alternatively they could be set to use in weeding out the peacenik inner city dwellers that so pervade this land. The ferocity and take no prisoners approach of the Pashtun warrior should see that the Greens receive not one vote come the next Federal Election.

    • Helen says:

      01:42pm | 21/10/10

      Oh, It’s my brother-in-law! O HAI!

    • David says:

      09:16am | 21/10/10

      I’m sure Helen will be glad to see that most of the commenters above are proving her point.

      Did anyone actually read the goddamn article?

      She’s talking about how our national media coverage shapes the narrative of the discussion. She’s saying that we are often not given the full story when an embellished one will sell more papers or create more ratings or give better soundbites, and that this atmosphere breeds (and almost celebrates) insular thinking.

      Think what you like about asylum seekers or refugees or illegal immigrants, call them what you will, but at least try and question how you receive your information on the debate at hand, and use that knowledge to temper your interpretation of that information.

    • marley says:

      10:05am | 21/10/10

      I think I got that, David.  But the problem from my perspective is that the refugee industry also shapes the narrative, and their narrative is not a whole lot more reliable than that of the national media.

    • Eric says:

      12:26pm | 21/10/10

      David, I actually read the goddamn article.

      By the sixth paragraph, I knew what the rest was going to say. Hell, that was pretty obvious just from the title, but I decided I should check just to be sure. And I did read all the way to the end, despite the knowledge that this was a waste of my time.

      The article was a typical piece of wankademic ignorance, with extra arrogance sprinkled on top. It merely repeated, yet again, the same tired old falsehoods about people who are opposed to uncontrolled immigration.

      The author has obviously never once paid attention to what we are actually saying, and it shows. We know all of your arguments and motivations, but you don’t know any of ours. That’s why you’re at a disadvantage.

    • Zeta says:

      09:33am | 21/10/10

      The real reason I’m scared of boat people is because they’re scary.

      I mean, there you are, minding your own buisness, when suddenly an anthropomorphic boat - human hybrid just appears out of no where. Part man, part boat, knocking things over with their masts, bloody great big prows getting up in your face. It’s a shambles. You can’t take them anywhere. They’re not quite people and they’re not quite boats. There’s just no place for them.

      And they look weird. They look frightening. Great bloody barncacles hanging off them, and you don’t know wether to look them in the port hole, or the fish finder. They’re just a downer. They can’t even take a light hearted joke about going down with the ship, or setting sail and heaven forbid you should say you’re taking a leak.

    • fairsfair says:

      04:25pm | 21/10/10

      lol - reminds me of the chasers war on “boat shoe people” who could not be accommodated in the detention centres because they were already full of idiots in crocs.

      If I cared enough I’d supply a link, but frankly I can’t be bothered.

    • TheRealDave says:

      10:02am | 21/10/10

      From the article: “But this only works when different ideas and perspectives are publicly discussed”

      I agree.

      However, Its hard to have a ‘discussion’ when you continually ignore or lambast the majority of Australia who don’t agree with you and recognise the difference between a genuine arse out of his/her pants ‘asylum seeker’ and cashed up ‘queue jumpers’ who pay criminals to get them into this country illegally, deliberately bypassing the correct procedure to enter this country to settle.

      Your article is typical of the ‘If you don’t agree with me you are racist!’ garbage we have been subjected to for years now by the Refugee Advocacy Industry and quite frankly we’ve have had enough. We’d like to have that discussion you claim to want, but its hard when you call everyone racist every 5 minutes for not agreeing with you.

    • acotrel says:

      10:21am | 21/10/10

      a racist, is a racist, is a racist!  I’m Australian too, and I know exactly where you are coming from!  I once asked a local farmer if he liked Vietnamese people - he said ‘no’!  I then asked him had he ever met one, and he said ‘no’!

    • iansand says:

      11:06am | 21/10/10

      TheRealDave - Can you explain why “cashed up” and “genuine refugee” ar mutually inconsistent?

    • Tim says:

      12:07pm | 21/10/10

      Iansand,
      “cashed up” and “genuine refugee” don’t have to be mutually exclusive.
      However the majority of asylum seekers we receive currently on boats, are of the cashed up (for people from third world countries), queue jumping variety.
      I would much prefer that everyone that finds themselves in need of assistance had equal opportunity to come to Australia rather than the situation we currently have, where all one needs is cash and the willingness to take a dangerous boat ride.

    • iansand says:

      12:46pm | 21/10/10

      Tim - If it’s a false dichotomy why is the canard repeated so often?

    • Tim says:

      01:04pm | 21/10/10

      Iansand,
      I’d hazard a guess that it’s because some people are stupid.

    • Kordez says:

      01:15pm | 21/10/10

      @acotrel, I’ve never visited Perth, but I’m 99.9% sure it’s as likely to entertain me as Justin Beiber’s new release. Your problem acotrel is that you failed to observe merit in others opinions.
      Queue jumping, is a good argument. I don’t want to pay for them, is fair comment. Stranger Danger, is only reasonable. Demonising those opposed to sneaky immigrants, will only piss us off. And long term incarceration of Lindsay Lohan is just healthy common sense.
      Failing to acknowledge a good point and lowering yourself to name calling, will only tarnish your own rep buddy.

    • Expat says:

      10:15am | 21/10/10

      While it’s extremely unlikely that anyone will fall for it, the strategy of submitting comments online pretending to be a nation of ignorant, xenophobic embarrassments in order to discourage anyone from even visiting Australia, let alone seeking asylum, is still worth a try if it helps people avoid dangerous plane and boat journeys.

    • Steve says:

      01:50pm | 21/10/10

      Comment of the day.

    • Christine Smith says:

      03:07pm | 21/10/10

      Hahaha, it may be a failed ploy but we have developed a genuine talent for it and are unlikely to want to stop now we know we’ve got a real skill!

    • Gene says:

      10:18am | 21/10/10

      I’m scared that the fake PM is pretending to be a real PM and not doing anything logical with regards to boat people!

    • Lindy says:

      11:21am | 21/10/10

      Most of these boat people are NOT refugees. They are people looking for the rich pickings that Australia can give them, such as free everything until they feel like getting a friggin’ job.  Even those from Sri Lanka are no longer in need of asylum. Have all of you bleeding hearts ever stopped to wonder why these boat people don’t claim asylum in the first safe country they enter??  WE have our elderly, who paid big taxes to build Australia, in dire straits because the government won’t give them a decent pension to live modestly on, & we have the greens & their bleeding heart followers who don’t give a fart about the pensioners plight. The $30 rise over two years ago did nothing to help the pensioners even catch up after years of being forgotten, then the Labor state governments put up the rent on the pensioners flats, followed by all amenities such as electricity & water. This is how all governments treat the very people who went without to build the nation. The last federal election has put the greens into power & they don’t give a toss about our elderly. They’d rather see our tax dollars being thrown at greedy, sneaky boat people jumping the queue to gobble up what is rightfully the pensioners. And as for Gillard….well anything to be in power & stay in power is her motto. THis woman, for all her soft, kind words is nothing but a power hungry bitch who will kowtow & grovel to the greens even though it makes her look weak & incompetent!! And the Liberal party is no better.

    • Jolanda says:

      11:27am | 21/10/10

      You know what I find interesting, that often those who come in by boat go back within no time at all to visit their relatives in the country that they were fleeing from for fear of their life.  Personally I would say that if you come by boat and you are accepted as an Australian seeking asylum you cannot return to your country - for safety reasons of course.

      Education – Keeping them Honest
      http://jolandachallita.typepad.com/

    • Brian B says:

      11:41am | 21/10/10

      Another cut and paste article from the academic elite that does little to address either the problem of protecting our borders or resettling displaced people.

      Sorry Helen, F grading for this one.

    • Richard says:

      11:50am | 21/10/10

      The real reason people oppose asylum seekers, (I think its very insulting to say that people are afraid of them, just because someone doesn’t agree with you doesn’t make them gutless), is because most intelligent people think in terms of trends, as in, they don’t sit back and think “oh if its x number now, well that’s pretty minuscule so fine, let them live here,” because they have noticed a clear trend of increasing numbers of asylum seekers arriving.

      During the election campaign we were told, “oh its only 3000, big whoop you’re all a bunch of xeno’s”. Now its over 5000 and they’re like “its only 1.6% get a grip you scardey cats”. What about it 2 months time when its 7000? What about this time next year when its 20 000? That is were this trend is heading so don’t call me a scare-monger for thinking a few moves ahead (I’m a chess player you see).

      What I want is for all refugee advocates (who do a fine job and are very compassionate people) to become aware of the trend of increasing boat arrivals, and think about where we as a nation should be willing to draw a line in the sand and say “no more”. I don’t particularly know where that line in the sand should be: 20 000, 50 000, 200 000, wherever.

      But don’t think that there is any shortage of people in the world who would love to make a new life for themselves in Australia. There are millions of underprivileged in our region of the world, and once they get the idea into their heads that Australia is open for business, they will come.

      So refugee advocates, what should we do about this situation?

    • Eric says:

      12:28pm | 21/10/10

      Very well stated, Richard!

      Sadly, people like Helen will never listen to you, because they think they know everything already. That is their great weakness.

    • Amber says:

      12:00pm | 21/10/10

      I thought on Nauru there was no need for razor-wire.

    • Trude says:

      12:11pm | 21/10/10

      You think that’s what I’m scared of?? No, what I’m scared of is that the rest of our services don’t keep up with immigration. It doesn’t matter whether it’s legal or illegal immigrants, other services must be kept up and they’re not. Social, educational and police services are always playing catch up. This makes it harder for immigrants to settle in and makes the rest of us kind of resentful as we have to share already stretched services. Particularly if like in our area there’s a crime spree involving mainly people from one ethnic background and not enough police to deal with it, then resentments start to run much higher. Public service positions are cut again and again while the population expands and new cultures are added, that leads to frustrations and misunderstandings. My fear is that by the time Australia’s population reaches 30,000,000 what services we have now will be almost non-existent and then we will be seeing race riots and vigilantism far too often.

    • fred says:

      12:31pm | 21/10/10

      Helen, thanks for a definitive piece - clear logic and intelligent discussion - neither evident in most of the comments above.

      My chief gripe is that Labor in Government did not have the sense to direct some well targetted community education at the Hansonite cohort of voters whom John Howard had captured, and at the secondary students who now have the vote. Public servants published and promoted in the media the occasional settlement success story of refugees from Africa and SE Asia but rarely, if ever, of an asylum seeker boat arrival who was confirmed to meet exactly the same refugee criteria as those selected from camps. Thanks to the rare journalist who does write the asylum seeker success story and gets it past the editor who “knows what readers wants”.

      When the great overdue debate on why Australia has troops fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan is finished, could we have the overdue debate on the UN Refugees Convention and why Australia signed it in 1954 and has assessed and resettled some thousands of Afghan asylum seekers who fled the Taliban which is intent on the genocide of Shia Hazara?

    • marley says:

      02:19pm | 21/10/10

      It’s true that public servants do promote the success stories of refugees accepted under the resettlement programs.  Why not?  Those are refugees selected, and processed by Immigration, so they’re truly clients of DIAC. 

      And I agree, there is less publicity about successful onshore claimants.  But surely, the refugee advocacy industry should be doing something to publicize the successes of its clients, the onshore people, just as DIAC does for theirs?  If the narrative is confused here, it’s due at least in part to the failure of the advocacy industry to get an effective message across.  Browbeating the public and accusing it of racism isn’t an effective way to get the message across, now is it?

      As for the Taliban, too true.  I’ve had dealings with quite a few Hazara, and also with Afghan Ismailis in my time, and their opinion of the Taliban would make your hair curl.

    • Martin G says:

      01:02pm | 21/10/10

      Children locked behind razor-wire you say Helen?

      http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/senate/commttee/S13303.pdf
      “No children have been held in a detention centre since June 2005.” - Andrew Metcalfe, Department of Immigration and Citizenship

      You claim lies and myths are destroying a chance for proper debate on this issue, yet you hold the debate back by perpetuating this lie of ‘children behind razor wire’.

      Not only that, you claim that the ‘queue-jumper’ is a myth, yet you don’t even attempt to prove your point, instead lapsing into ad hominem attacks on Pauline Hanson and John Howard. Very sloppy.

      We would not even be talking about this subject if Rudd Labor had not relaxed the asylum seeker laws in 2008. Now more than 100 people have died trying to get here by boat. If you want to preach about the humanity and emotional aspects of the debate, at least acknowledge and include this fact. Labor’s law changes have lured people to their deaths. Change the laws back and the ‘economic refugees’ will be gone.

    • bwren says:

      02:41pm | 21/10/10

      I understand your objections and the earlier ones are valid. However, Rudd relaxing the asylum seeker laws may have something to do with the fact they were introduced by Howard, and were in contravention of the UN Charter on Refugees, to which Australia is a signatory. Aside from that, instability in the war zones of Afghanistan, Iraq and areas of Pakistan has escalated, in turn increasing the numbers fleeing these countries…this is an international problem, and the source is where more needs to be done to stop the people smugglers and discourage people from trying to “buy” their way into Australia, ahead of others who wait patiently for help. It is drawing a long bow to charge the Rudd Labor Government with “luring people to their deaths”.

    • marley says:

      09:12pm | 21/10/10

      brwen - first, there is no UN Charter on Refugees.  There is a Convention, and also a Protocol to that Convention.

      Second, it’s debatable whether what Howard imposed (I assume you’re talking the “Pacific Solution”) was in violation of that Convention.  And if it was, then the ALP and its Timor Leste solution would be in equal violation, since the principle is the same. Process offshore rather than onshore.

      Oh, and according to the UNHCR, which should know, the increase in asylum seekers in Australia is not related to events in Afghanistan or elsewhere.  The majority of refugee-receiving countries have noticed a downturn in numbers.

    • Lex says:

      01:46pm | 21/10/10

      Let them in but Rremove the $ incentive and see what happens.
      The best way to deal with this issue is through cold, hard statistics and calculations.
      Have there been studies on asylum seekers? Do the majority of them contribute to wealth redistribution or are they the recipients? If the latter, then they will require special considerations…

    • Anjuli says:

      01:51pm | 21/10/10

      Why do these people pay the people smugglers thousands of dollars to come by boat when it is far cheaper to come by Qantas . Because they destroy their papers why ,if they were truly refugees they would not be afraid of being refused entry ,it is solely because of the welfare they will get here, as it does exist in those countries.

    • marley says:

      09:03pm | 21/10/10

      Ah, an Afghan or Sri Lankan or whoever, would actually need to get a visa in order to get on a Qantas flight.  Most of them wouldn’t stand a chance of meeting “visitor visa” requirements.  And Qantas cannot board them unless they have a visa.  So they have two choices - sit it out in a refugee camp, and hope their number comes up, or pay to get on a boat.

    • bwren says:

      01:58pm | 21/10/10

      An article that presents an alternative viewpoint is a good thing, although I disagree with the comparison of the percentage of refugees taken by Australia as measured against other developed countries…this may be a “big country” but a lot of it is far from productive. Over the decades we have welcomed people into this country who did not deserve to be here…the killers of Dr Chan, various war criminals from Nazi Germany, supporters of Al Quaeda and the Taliban. Post 9/11, the plotters lived in the USA freely and gathered expertise to execute their plot…hell yes, we are suspicious of people arriving here without papers and via dubious and dangerous means, we are particularly suspicious of the followers of Islam, thanks to the likes of Osama Bin Laden and Abu Bakar Bashir. It is a great pity that all those people scared for their lives and trying to protect their family, and so undertaking a perilous journey to Australia, are being tarred with the same brush, due to the acts of a few. There is no easy solution to the issue.

    • Sven Gali says:

      02:02pm | 21/10/10

      What are “boat people” ? Is that some kind of pejorative term ?

      When you’re capable of a civil dialogue, there might be something to discuss.

    • Adam Diver says:

      03:14pm | 21/10/10

      “boat people” is a commonly used Australian reference, used by politicians, journalist, acedemia and ordinary citizens, referring to a segment of assylm seekers that reach Australia by boat.

      This is the exact attitude that pisses so many people off. How about you address the article, the arguments or the counter arguments, everyone knows the term, but we are not here to debate the use of it.

    • Sven Gali says:

      09:02am | 22/10/10

      I did address the article, Adam, as it uses the term “boat people” in the headline.

      It’s not for you or me to say whether “we” are or aren’t here to debate this. I can only speak for myself and you, whom by your reply, demonstrated that you are. QED.

    • Shelley says:

      02:28pm | 21/10/10

      Kids behind razor wire is bs.  Families with kids are housed in hotel accommodation.  Gillard herself has been forced to admit this is the case. The WA detention site to be built is to house MALE illegal immigrants only.  The spin put on this policy failure by Gillard, her government, and those happy to see Australian border protection and immigration laws in tatters is unbelievable.
      Many homeless Aussies would be happy to see a fraction of the aid offered to these people that are only to happy to bypass lawful entry into Australia.

    • AIdy Griffin says:

      02:39pm | 21/10/10

      Why is this issue given such prominence?  Even if iwe grant all the objections of those who oppose asylum seekers coming here, i cannot understand why its of greater importance than say our Army being in Afghanistan.  There, our soldiers are dying to prop up a corrupt regime of narco-traffickers and warlords.  Thousands of ordinary Afghanis are dying too.  The opium trade is rampant (and contributes to more Australians dying).

      I am unable to understand why the Coalition made it one if its 4 most urgent issues in the recent election (‘cept as a cheap way to get votes).  There are dozens of issues that are far more important - unemployment, climate change for instance - that have far more immediate and deeper impact on most ppl’s lives.  So why all the fuss over such a minor issue?

      I don’t for a minute believe that our national security is seriously threatened by the arrival of asylum seekers in leaking boats.  Given that tens of thousands of asylum seekers have been settled here since the Vietnam War era, where is the evidence that our national security is threatened or has ever been threatened?  That most boats are intercepted well beyond our shores tells me that our border security is NOT being breached.

      So i am left wondering why all the fuss?  The tone of outraged emotional defensiveness that seems to permeate the statements of those who are ‘anti-boat-people’ causes me to wonder about their motives.  This is not the reaction I associate with disinterested motives. 

      Perhaps someone could be kind enough to enlighten me

    • Adam Diver says:

      03:19pm | 21/10/10

      Firstly the emotive on both side is fairly strong.

      Secondly the coalition took this to the election because its an easy vote winner.

      Thirdly world poverty and famine is worse then afghanistan so whats your point? We had a debate about afghanistan now we are having a debate about this issue.

      Fourthly an issue can only be an issue if contested by two sides. The reason this issue is blown out of proportion is because both sides have distinctly different views with no chance for compromise. Its either A or B.

      However the left in this issue never seem to address any of the concerns of the right. It is an infuriating tactic of deflect, ignore, name call. Perhaps why this issue above others has been so vocal.

    • Christine Smith says:

      02:58pm | 21/10/10

      Reugees who come by boat don’t bring enough money with them, that’s the crux of the matter. Almost anyone can get into Australia if they can pay for the privilege, our refugee policy just cements our allegiance to ‘if you’ll buy it we’ll sell it’ politics. And our love of allowing uncontrollable private corporations to rip us off in an ongoing way ... just as long as we get plasma tvs out of it.

    • Geoff says:

      03:20pm | 21/10/10

      “According to the UNHCR Australia receives 1.6% of the asylum claims made in industrialised countries, and 0.4% of global claims”
       
      Lets say for your sake we have 7 billion people on earth and Australia has 22 million people. Thats 0.31% of the worlds population, Yet were taking in 0.4% of the worlds immigrants. Our low population amplifies the number we take. For example 10 add 1 is a 10% gain 1,000 add 1 is a 0.1% gain. Thats why it is such an issue.

    • Georgio says:

      03:26pm | 21/10/10

      The govt has been detaining people since the british invasion and the proof is there when you meet a stolen generation member. I remember my aunties being sent miles away from their families and locked in dormitories, confused with language & traditons, which caused confusion and tension. Locking people away doe’s not improve lives it only destroys the spirit, and how about we lock up our so called university educated leaders & their familes including the children, and lets see how they cope.

    • Rory the Redneck says:

      05:13pm | 21/10/10

      Elites trying to tell me why I am scared of Illegals is insulting in the extreme, I just do not like frauds that country shop, and I especially do not like them coming here at the invitation of a Labor Government that is promising them permanent residency and Citizenship if they can get here and then tries to deceive me into thinking they are being tough on illegals.

      Many Australians are very aware of the European experience of open borders that has led to the illegal immigration disaster that those foolish and gullible Europeans have inflicted upon themselves, it is in our national interest to do everything possible to deter these illegal immigrants from rorting Australia in the same way.

      We should only take real refugees from UN camps in the area of conflict, and leave the 747 Jumbo flying fakes on the tarmac in Malaysia & Indonesia to rot.

    • Ben81 says:

      05:27pm | 21/10/10

      The real question here is just why the hell are those mainly on the left side of politics insisting that we turn over part of our refugee intake to people smugglers?  Is it because the main priority is not accepting that John Howard did the right thing above all else?  There’s countless people in the world who would fit our refugee criteria, we can only ever take in a tiny amount of them, so why not do it responsibly like Howard showed we can do, instead of the ridiculous situation where we outsource part of our intake to people smugglers and end up with thousands of people in immigration detention?  It’s just plain stupid and pointless in so many ways, and the situation sure as hell isn’t helping us or refugees.  That’s what it boils down to, the so called refugee advocates who think they’re the good guys are putting thousands of lives in danger, fuelling a disgusting industry, and forcing us to lock up thousands of people for purely political reasons and enough is enough.

    • MetalRat says:

      05:43pm | 21/10/10

      An easy way to stop them bringing kids with them is to advertise in the common places that illegals emark. Something along the lines of; if you bring children they will be automatically taken off you and put up for adoption, you will have no assistance in trying to locate them at a later date.

      So then no kids will be bought in illegally and therefore no kids will be behind wire, problem solved.

    • Philip says:

      07:33pm | 21/10/10

      I got bored reading this. The article is too long and I don’t know what it is about and don’t care enough to work it out.

    • franklin says:

      11:34am | 22/10/10

      The existence of the refugee queue is most problematic for refugee advocates. Refugee advocates view themselves as kind, compassionate and caring people, whose compassion is shown in their fanatical support of the asylum seekers, who they unfailingly and unquestioningly (and blindly) view as desperate refugees bravely fleeing persecution and torture.

      A great majority of asylum seekers arriving at Christmas Island are able bodied men coming from Afghanistan. They are able to pay people smugglers many thousands of dollars (newspaper articles cite a cost of $10,000 to $15,000 per person) although the per capita income of Afghanistan is around $800 per year (about $2 per day). In contrast, the most desperate refugees in the world are single women and children living in squalid unhcr refugee camps in Africa and Asia. They live in abject poverty and are forced to deal with hostile locals, an almost total lack of economic opportunities, frequent gender based violence, high rates of crime and food shortages. They are obviously unable to pay many thousands of dollars to people smugglers, and so the only way out of their desperate circumstances is for resettlement via the unhcr in programs such as Australia’s refugee resettlement program . Which of these two groups would you expect refugee advocates to extend their compassion to ?

      Refugee advocates are compelled to deny the existence of the refugee queue as that would imply being misguided in their compassion, that is their compassion does not go to those most in need such as destitute and desperate refugees (many of them women and children) in unhcr refugee camps, but instead goes to those asylum seekers having substantial financial resources to pay many thousands of dollars to people smugglers with the aim of travelling long distances around the world and settling in an affluent western country.

      Refugee advocates just cannot admit to themselves or to others that for every asylum seeker arrival via people smugglers there is one less place available in Australia’s refugee resettlement program for refugees in much more desperate circumstance waiting in the refugee queue. And with 5,000 asylum seekers having arrived so far via people smugglers, that means 5,000 less places available in Australia’s refugee resettlement program for desperate and destitute refugees in unhcr refugee camps.

    • Catching up says:

      12:18pm | 22/10/10

      I do not think we need wire around the centres to protect us.  I believe we need the wire to protect the refugees from us.  If we did not invade Vietnam, we would not have the boat people problem.  Same if we did not invade Iraq or Afghanistan, they would still be in their own countries.  Sri Lanka refugees is different, we did not invade them.  Therefore, my message to people who do not want refugees, you should encourage our country to keep out of other peoples wars.

    • Catching up says:

      12:18pm | 22/10/10

      I do not think we need wire around the centres to protect us.  I believe we need the wire to protect the refugees from us.  If we did not invade Vietnam, we would not have the boat people problem.  Same if we did not invade Iraq or Afghanistan, they would still be in their own countries.  Sri Lanka refugees is different, we did not invade them.  Therefore, my message to people who do not want refugees, you should encourage our country to keep out of other peoples wars.

    • marley says:

      06:32pm | 22/10/10

      The highest number of asylum seekers most years come from the PRC.  I don’t believe there’s any war on there.  Certainly not one that Australia is involved in. Nor is there a war going on in Zimbabwe, yet that too is becoming a significant source of asylum seekers for us.

      Maybe you need to dig a bit deeper into the nature of refugee movements.  Whether we get involved or not, whether there’s a war or not, is often irrelevant to the flows of asylum seekers.

    • Charles Kelly says:

      09:09am | 26/10/10

      Most Australians don’t have a problem with genuine asylum seekers - but they have every right to object to country-shopping economic opportunists.

      Genuine asylum seekers are welcomed into this country by an overwhelming majority of the population, and the hatred is reserved for those attempting to cheat the system by appealing to the deluded gullibility of the namby-pamby snivel libertarian PC types. For many of these illegal immigrants, claiming “asylum” to enter this country is akin to exploiting legal loopholes to unnecessarily claim a disabled parking permit - another deceitful act intelligent rational Australians hate.

      Let’s get one thing straight - the term “asylum seekers” was concocted by namby-pamby snivel libertarian PC types to divert attention away from the fact that MANY of the people who attempt to sneak into this country by boat are nothing more than economic opportunists, and as such, should actually be referred to by the much more appropriate term of “illegal immigrants”.

      The majority of these “boat people” come here from Indonesia, and pay large sums of money to do so. What exactly in Indonesia is someone with a large sum of money fleeing from? As far as I’m aware, living in Indonesia (while their application for residency in Australia is processed) poses no threat to them whatsoever?

      If fraudlently claiming “asylum” isn’t illegal, it definitely should be. As far as I’m concerned, they should all be regarded as “illegal immigrants” until such a time as they can prove a legally legitimate claim to “asylum”.

      Our legal system impotently allows many people to dishonestly exploit the current laws regarding disabled parking permits, just as our legal system impotently allows many people to dishonestly exploit the current laws regarding refugee status. Many Australians vehemently despise people who dishonestly exploit the current laws regarding disabled parking permits, which is fair enough - just as it’s also reasonable to hold people who dishonestly exploit the current laws regarding refugee status in the same regard. Clearly in both situations, there are loopholes which need to be closed. When people attempt to obtain disabled parking permits “under the table”, there’s a valid case for assuming that their entitlement is questionable - as is the case when people try to secure residency in Australia “through the back door”.

      What we should do is make it 100% ILLEGAL to try and sneak into Australia through the back door, and we’d have much more money for much more important things (like hospitals, schools etc.). It’s not the only option these people have at their disposal - it’s just the easiest, and provides the highest success rate for non-genuine refugees trying to cheat the system. Closing the gate on boat-people simply means genuine refugees have to go through proper channels just like everybody else - all in the same QUEUE.

    • James1 says:

      09:49am | 26/10/10

      Fraudulently claiming asylum is illegal.  That is why unsuccessful asylum seekers are in fact illegal immigrants.  Also, not descending into childish name calling within 60 words of starting your post would greatly improve your chances of being taken seriously.  You got off to a strong start, but you will find that most people stop reading when you start calling people names.

      That encapsulates the problems with this debate - no one can just stick to the issue, and everyone is far too busy calling each other names and acting like my seven year old child.  And that goes for both sides.  Grow up people; its sad, and it does your valid arguments a disservice.

    • Charles Kelly says:

      10:17am | 26/10/10

      Why don’t YOU “just stick to the issue”, James1, instead of going off on tangents to avoid it? Descending into gross hypocrisy within 60 words of starting your post would greatly improve your chances of being taken seriously.

    • James1 says:

      01:17pm | 26/10/10

      Calm down, Charles, no one is insulting you.  I was simply saying that your valid points, and I acknowledge you have some below, are done a disservice by your resort to attacking people and calling them names rather than focusing on their ideas.  I really do not see what is hypocritical about my post - I do not attack you, I focus on what you say.  And I certainly do not call you names. 

      The issue here is that everyone gets so hot under the collar they resort to screaming and insulting each other.  If it wasn’t for the high level of emotion, we could have a collective discussion about asylum seekers, but so long as both sides engage in this business of calling each other “rightards” and “snivel libertarians”, the debate will stagnate.  Is that sticking to the issue enough?

    • Charles Kelly says:

      04:59pm | 26/10/10

      Your comment was clearly hypocritical, James1, because you failed to “just stick to the issue”.

      And I don’t see the use of “namby-pamby snivel libertarian PC types” as “name calling”, nor is it “childish” - it’s simply, all things considered, their most accurate description. According to your criteria, to call it “childish” is to engage in “name calling” - and you wouldn’t want to compound your hypocrisy, would you?

    • James1 says:

      05:30pm | 26/10/10

      Sigh.  I feel sorry for you Charles.  I really do.  If you can not see how name calling is childish and not conducive to rational debate, you have a real problem.  This is the reason why no one listens to you, and no doubt also the reason why you are so bitter and angry (and most likely alone).  You poor, poor thing.

    • MonkeyBoy says:

      10:50am | 27/10/10

      He’s got you right where he wants you, James. If you’re going to self-righteously berate people for “name calling”, it’s probably best that you don’t do it yourself. Whereas Charles is at least consistent in his approach, you continue to throw stones from your glass house, while mounted atop your high horse. Your blatant hypocrisy does very little for your credibility.

    • Charles Kelly says:

      10:44am | 26/10/10

      There’s a really simple solution to this whole problem. Simply require ALL “asylum seekers” accepted into Australia to spend the first ten years in their new country placed in various rural communities in need of a population boost, no closer than 200 kilometres from any capital city. This would serve multiple purposes - as it would help out those rural communities, encourage a greater understanding of the Australian way of life, and mainly, it would rapidly sort out the genuine refugees from the country-shopping economic opportunists.

    • James1 says:

      11:02am | 26/10/10

      That is a really good idea, that all would benefit from.

    • marley says:

      02:12pm | 27/10/10

      Never gonna happen.  Once a refugee is a permanent resident, he has as much right as any other Aussie to move to where his friends are, to where the jobs are, or to where the fun is.

    • Pedro says:

      03:13pm | 27/10/10

      great idea - and totally impractical - it was tried in England in the 70’s and resulted in mass internal migration to the asylum seekers capitals of the Midlands and London…..

    • Charles Kelly says:

      04:29pm | 27/10/10

      @marley:  Easily solved. They don’t become permanent residents until after they’ve done their ten years.

      @Pedro: No problem. They wouldn’t get a choice where they are placed. The whole point is to deliberately place them away from other “asylum seekers” from similar backgrounds, encouraging both integration and diversification.

      Anyone genuinely claiming asylum, and not simply country shopping, wouldn’t have a problem with this.

    • Pedro says:

      03:16pm | 27/10/10

      @marley - I must say that I have enjoyed your balanced, informed and intelligent responses to this emotional debate.

    • Billigflug New York Frankfurt says:

      05:24pm | 31/03/12

      Actual Protection,define security why help help call session measure track wash most material domestic ride director belong video criticism season former challenge living challenge physical protect key increase hospital on provision war best point space travel number press wide bus suggestion danger analysis expense few other room slip knee coal tell later career module visit release language capital obtain what floor village characteristic vote cut top consist most master image score else bank role strength oil equipment especially estimate appear forward open field surely disease fear

 

Facebook Recommendations

Read all about it

Punch live

Up to the minute Twitter chatter

Anthony Sharwood

#markwebber just wasted petrol faster than everyone else in monaco #f1

Anthony Sharwood

In my sports column on The Punch tomorrow: why Eurovision was easily the best game on the weekend. Mummy bloggers, you'll like this one!

Daniel Piotrowski

The Logies could learn a lot from Eurovision #lamethings#sbseurovision

Daniel Piotrowski

RT @ellehardytweets: Already despondent about the next fifty one weeks. #sbseurovision

Recent posts

The latest and greatest

Abbott’s crass logic: trash the Parliament in order save it

Abbott’s crass logic: trash the Parliament in order save it

An email was sent to almost every politician in Australia this week saying that someone should cut off…

Our special forces don’t always need special treatment

Our special forces don’t always need special treatment

We admire them, but we’re not entirely sure why. We allow them to operate in the shadows; we rarely…

A good holiday is about unrest, not rest

A good holiday is about unrest, not rest

Like a fat full-stop, it lay in my hand. A small orange – not exactly fresh, but purchased anyway…

Nosebleed Section

choice ringside rantings

From: They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

Michael S says:

"A teacher at Geelong Grammar had criticised her for using words that were too long, which had left her confused and had made her doubt her ability to write essays. She became ''quite distressed'' when her English marks began to fall." I can sympathise. My scholastic mentors conveyed to me a causal relationship… [read more]

From: Welfare for breeders is a bonus for everyone

Change Up! says:

I have no problem paying my taxes. As a single, childless person on a very decent income, I can afford it and not have my life severely altered. Plus I understand that my taxes paying for things like schools, childcare and infrastructure is ultimately a good thing. A better community is better for me… [read more]

Gentle jabs to the ribs

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

A private school girl’s family is sueing her elite, extremely expensive private school for not… Read more

243 comments

Newsletter

Read all about it

Sign up to the free daily Punch newsletter