In an episode of the 1970s comedy series The Goodies, Graeme Garden is so taken by the power of his pirate radio station transmitting from a submarine outside the 12 mile limit, he succumbs to megalomania. He draws up plans to insert a giant hydraulic car jack between Britain and the continent to hoist the whole island outside its own 12 mile limit.


Sound familiar?

A fortnight ago the Gillard Government unveiled its latest capitulation on asylum seeker policy: a plan to excise the entire Australian continent from its own migration laws.

Not satisfied with merely redefining the country’s northern territorial islands to deny asylum seekers access to Australian courts, Labor is now making John Howard’s reviled Pacific Solution seem half-hearted.

Howard first wanted to excise about 3000 northern islands for migration law purposes in 2002.

Labor MPs branded that morally reprehensible.

Ditto in 2006 when a move remarkably similar to the current plan was made to excise the country’s northern coastline.

Then in opposition, Chris Bowen had told Parliament it would be “a stain on our national character.’’

Worse stains were to come. For a start, Labor won in late 2007 and immediately set about “humanising’’ the policy.

But to its slowly dawning horror, this invited a lucrative new people-smuggling business which led directly to a flood of boats and a rising toll of deaths at sea. The ALP initially blamed the increase on “push factors’’ in other countries. But that dog won’t hunt anymore. Both sides know it is the pulling power of Australia itself that attracts asylum seekers.

Facing a genuine moral dilemma, Labor has been forced bit-by-bit to cave in, culminating in its last chance Houston review this year. Clearly the review was designed to give the Government the political cover for a full retreat. 

But policy slipperiness is not the exclusive province of the ALP. For two years as the boats kept coming, Tony Abbott banged on demanding that the PM simply “pick up the phone’’ to Nauru to get third country processing restarted. He publicly issued this admirably simple advice to the PM no less than 106 times and was happy to take the political dividend from such simplicity.

The Government argued the deterrent value of the two outposts had never been high and was probably zero given that neither country could offer final resettlement and most refugees would wind up in Australia anyway.

Now it was Labor’s turn to be right.

What ever the deterrent value of two further measures favoured by the Coalition, (Temporary Protection Visas and boat tow-backs at sea) there can be no avoiding the fact that picking up the phone to Nauru and PNG has done precisely nothing.

Don’t hold your breath though waiting for a concession. This isn’t about policy, it’s about politics.

Another colossal failure is the craven refusal to discuss the now seriously underperforming GST.

There are sound policy reasons to broaden its base to include food, health care, and education as had been initially intended. Increasing its rate above 10 per cent - perhaps to 15 per cent - should also be on the table. Yet thanks to political timidity both are off-limits.

From the excruciating days of its birth, politicians set about compromising its integrity. The carve-outs were part of the deal. They reduced its impact and therefore its revenue raising capacity. The other big compromise came through assurances that the new tax would effectively be set in stone, virtually guaranteeing it would eventually suffer from the very tax-base narrowness problem it was expressly designed to address.

This triumph of populist politics over responsible fiscal policy – which demands ever lower taxes and yet more middle-class welfare – has meant that Australia, like most western economies has a structural revenue shortfall. Put simply, outside of atypical boom-times, there is not enough money coming in to meet expectations. Neither is there the political courage to get.

With a swathe of new spending programs in the offing, including the NDIS, dental care, the Gonski education reforms, and healthcare, it is crazy that a discussion of the effectiveness of the GST was excluded from the Henry Tax review. Just as the Howard Government had in 1999, the Gillard Government feared that even discussing change left it exposed to a partisan fear campaign.

So what we got instead was a crippling high-octane argument which yielded a butchered super-profits tax on big miners and which so far has failed to add a cent to revenue.

The Government which had made a 2013 surplus an iron clad commitment, has recently hinted that it might be unachievable.

Wiser heads beyond the party trenches are increasingly concluding that it is our hyper-partisan politics that is now the greatest impediment to problem solving.

One of them, the Business Council of Australia’s Tony Shepherd added his voice last night.

“In the days of the Accord, different sectors were able to agree on a common purpose and a plan to foster productivity, competitiveness and growth,’’ he told the peak employer body’s annual dinner.

“There is no reason we cannot do this again.”

Unfortunately, there probably is one reason: politics.

Comments on this post will close at 8pm AEDST.

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78 comments

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    • acotrel says:

      05:16am | 16/11/12

      ‘Howard first wanted to excise about 3000 northern islands for migration law purposes in 2002.

      Labor MPs branded that morally reprehensible.’

      WAS and IS reprehensible !  If we don’t want to accept asylum seekers and resettle them, we should bite the bullet annd rescind our signatory status to the UNHCR, and wear the diplomatic consequences of our actions.  We will end up doing that whichever way we go.  As far as the misogynist is concerned, he should be told to pull his head in.  For using Pauline Hanson’s politics, he should meet the same political fate.  If the ALP keeps playing his game they must without doubt lose the next election !

    • Super D says:

      06:17am | 16/11/12

      I think the ALP has already done more than enough to lose the next election.

      I’d envisage there would be absolutely zero diplomatic consequences of withdrawing from the refugee convention aside from bleating from international leftards.

      Indeed the best use of our security council prestige could be to sponsor an updated convention that reflects economic migration flows.

    • Gregg says:

      06:42am | 16/11/12

      Here we have a very staining poster yesterday lambasting female engineers as being incompetent now furthering his misogynist smearing.
      This post is far from bi-partisan and needs to be removed from the top of the page Punchers.

    • Kegaro says:

      07:08am | 16/11/12

      So how will ‘unsigning’ the UNHCR achieve any different outcomes?  I found this in the online UNHCR document ...

      Can a country that has not signed the 1951 Convention refuse to admit
      a person seeking protection?

      The principle of non-refoulement, which prohibits the return of a refugee to a territory where his or her life or freedom is threatened, is considered a rule of customary international law. As such it is binding an all States, regardless of whether they have acceded to the 1951 Convention or 1967 Protocol. A refugee seeking protection must not be prevented from entering a country as this would amount to refoulement.

    • Kegaro says:

      07:14am | 16/11/12

      Just properly absorbed Super D’s comment ... agreed.  It seems ‘unsigning’ the convention wouldn’t really change anything.  The convention needs to reflect current circumstances, not post WW2.

    • dovif says:

      07:16am | 16/11/12

      Acrotel

      I completely agree that the Fake Julia should pull her head in and not use the race/sex card to try to score political point

      Instead she should look at her many stuff ups and lack of policies and fix those

    • Michael S says:

      07:41am | 16/11/12

      Once one country pulls out, dozens will follow - including us. But no-one wants to be first.

    • acotrel says:

      07:45am | 16/11/12

      @Dovif
      ‘I completely agree that the Fake Julia should pull her head in and not use the race/sex card to try to score political point’

      Julia did not ‘try to score a political point’ - she kicked his skinny little ass !

    • sandy says:

      07:58am | 16/11/12

      @ acotrel

      You cease to amaze me with your bitterness towards Tony Abbott. Such obsession and bitterness could easily be classed as modern electronic social media bullying and to be honest it scares me. Such reprehensible behaviour could lead to worse things in our society. You don’t even have the guts and the decency to call the opposition leader by his name but as a misogynist when you don’t personally know the man. You delve into the past only to discredit Tony Abbott when the present tells us that the current government is in no way finding themselves in a position to control almost on a daily basis the arrival of asylum seekers.

      You rubbish Tony Abbott to the utmost as if he is a one man team for your unhealthy satisfaction. “For using Pauline Hanson’s politics, he should meet the same political fate.” What policies are you talking about when we know that the ALP have ditched the East Timor solution promised to us last Elections for the Pacific Solution.

      You are correct Australia should abandon UNHCR and front the asylum seekers problem from all directions. I doubt ALP would do it though.

    • Mattb says:

      09:12am | 16/11/12

      Sandy

      “You cease to amaze me with your bitterness towards Tony Abbott. Such obsession and bitterness could easily be classed as modern electronic social media bullying and to be honest it scares me. Such reprehensible behaviour could lead to worse things in our society”

      Wow, talk about overreacting, if Acotrel scares you you must be pretty timid, do you still sleep with a teddy bear and a comfort light? or do you still live with mummy and daddy and sleep in their bed..

      What never ceases to amaze me is that there is still a few people left willing to defend Abbott, the most unpopular opposition party leader in Australian political history. The man is a complete joke and if the Liberal Party go to the next election with him still at the helm then we may end up stuck with the incompetent twits we have in control now. And its people like you Sandy that still defend him that compound the problem.

      We either need someone in the Liberal party to stand up and put an end to this clowns reign and return the party to a true liberal party or we need a whole new political party to emerge. Labor sure ain’t going to change and the Coalition under Abbott is just as bad, if not worse. That not bitterness, thats a FACT..

    • A Concerned Citizen says:

      09:22am | 16/11/12

      Yep rescind the Refugee Convention is what we should be doing: I don’t even think the diplomatic repercussions would actually be very substantial either; which countries would actually PUNISH us for doing it in any way? None. They either don’t care, or never signed the convention themselves.

      It is certainly a less expensive option, and worth a try at the very least. With a clear message abroad about what our asylum policy REALLY is, less people would even try to attempt the journey knowing we are not obligated to address their demands.

      Certainly nobody can disagree with this idea?

    • Dr B S Goh, Australian in Asia says:

      09:59am | 16/11/12

      The Americans were here in a big way in Perth in the past few days to talk about Defence. Funny that they and our Defence leaders (PM, Smith, Carr etc) did not consider the issue of the boatpeople as a Defence issue. One day it will be THE Defence issue when we are faced with a tsunami of millions of boatpeople when Asia descends into total chaos before 2050 due to a critical food crisis.

      Maybe Australia should learn from our big brother USA. Since 1995 they have an effective policy on boatpeople from Cuba and Haiti called the wet feet and dry feet, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_feet,_dry_feet_policy.  All boatpeople are returned to Cuba or Haiti.

    • Rella says:

      10:40am | 16/11/12

      The pull factor is simple. Permanent protection visas gives people legal rights.

      Temporary protection visas mean the government can send you home when it believes it is safe to do so.

      The answer to the ‘pull’ factor is very simple indeed.

    • ramases says:

      10:42am | 16/11/12

      Definitely, couldn’t agree more acotrel and while were at it also tell then UN to stick their money grabbing seat up their fundamental orifice. Whilst were at it we should also stop paying into the UN Green money pit that is expect us to fund to the tune of millions a year.
        This is one policy that I would agree with out of the hundreds this dysfunctional Government has put forward.
        The UN is a toothless tiger only interested in the amount of money it can procure from the various countries so that its delegates can live the life they have become accustomed to. Have a look at the failures of the UN and it makes the failures of the Labor Party pale in comparison, almost.

    • Dissident says:

      11:41am | 16/11/12

      @Mattb - you don’t have to like the opposition leader - you only have to prefer his party’s policies.

      I prefer Coalition policies to the ALP. For instance, the MRRT will smash my State (WA) and isn’t ‘spreading the mining boom’ because the GST redistributions already do that. That is a big hot button in WA - the ALP won’t pick up Swan or Hasluck with that albatross around their neck. The Coalition’s maternity leave scheme makes a lot more sense. If you want to provide continuity of income while the mother isn’t working, giving the minimum wage doesn’t cut it. A woman going from the WA median female weekly wage of $1,239.40 (ABS stats) to a lousy few hundred bucks a week is going to feel the hurt.

      Also, TA seems like a decent bloke and the current labelling of him is just a political strategy. You are presumably smart enough to know that, Mattb. Even Julia Gillard seems to like him as a person - witness their constant flirting before she came to power. There are no less than 77,000 hits on a JG TA flirting google search, including youtube video. The relationship has only seemed to sour because she has been told to attack him mercilessly (rather than his policies) by that muck-racker extraordinaire, McTernan.

      As far as the asylum seeker ‘problem’, the issue can be defined really simply. Howard and the Coalition had fixed it. The ALP stuffed it up. Now it is the ALP’s job to un-stuff it, and if they have to go harder than the Coalition did before to achieve that end, it is entirely their fault for having stuffed it up in the first instance. They have made their bed and now they have to lie in it.

    • sandy says:

      12:06pm | 16/11/12

      @ Mattb

      Thanks but no thanks. You are just as bad or worse than acotrel. Most Australians are sick of the nastiness that has taken over good political debate on policies concerning our future’s well being. Your comments would have been credible not for the “be pretty timid, do you still sleep with a teddy bear and a comfort light? or do you still live with mummy and daddy and sleep in their bed.” I beg respect from you as an adult if we were to go past all the nastiness.

      I wasn’t defending Tony Abbott as the politician but using the unfair misogynist attack on him for one reason and one reason only and that is to destroy him. The whole country knows that PM Gillard has said Mr Abbott is a misogynist and it should be left for the public to judge for themselves whether he is or not because they are very serious allegations for someone who is seen by many as a happily married man with 3 daughters. For acotrel to go about calling him a misogynist is as far as I am concerned is cyber bulling which should be condemned. Surely Australia doesn’t want or need a misogynist as our PM if Mr Abbott becomes one? Calling PM Gillard a liar is not acceptable in our Parliament so to be fair to Mr Abbott, perhaps a debate in Parliament is warranted to prove whether in fact he is a misogynist or not.

      It is the standards we try to set that will reflect on our society. I do understand we all have our differences in which leader we may like to think is setting a better standard but isn’t that the freedom of choice we sometimes take for granted and abuse in our democracy.

      The asylum seekers issue should be a concern for all of us. Not because of the number of arrivals but because how they have been treated once they have been detained in the different centres. No doubt the ALP Government is finding great difficulties in finding the best way to handle the situation.

    • PJ says:

      05:29am | 16/11/12

      “I am full of understanding of the perspective of the Australian people that they want strong management of our borders and I will provide it.”?—?Julia Gillard, June 24, 2010

      About 950 illegal immigrants have arrived on 18 boats in the first 10 days of November.

      Bowen says the illegal arrivals have stabilised! Truth is we have record numbers arriving.

      Since Labor destroyed the workable Coalition Solution and allowed the Nauru facility to rot. We have seen Labor policy failures with their East Timor Solution, Malaysian Solution 1, Malaysian Solution 2, Houston Panel and now their half baked Coalition Solution, Nauru and Manus, which they formally destroyed.

      The Australian High Court rejected the Gillard Governments half baked Malaysian Solutions, but the ego of the Gillard Government would not allow them to offer anything else, and the clientele of people smuggling syndicates started drowning.
      http://m.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/immigration/labors-asylum-solution-all-at-sea-after-high-court-vetoes-malaysia-solution/story-fn9hm1gu-1226126862624

      The Government didn’t even talk to these planned Asylum Seeker Hosting countries, before they made the announcements in Parliament. Malaysia was having its biggest crack down on human rights as the Gillard Government announced its Malaysian run concentration camps. What a shambles.

      The Gillard Government are spending $2.1 Billion dollars on repairing Nauru, $1.7 Billion annually on processing illegal arrivals and covering a legal bill of about $30 million annually, as the Australian people are sued by these illegal arrivals. This is another area where they are wasting our taxes. It’s easy to think how this money could be better used in Australia.

      http://m.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/immigration/border-regime-boost-tops-17bn/story-fn9hm1gu-1226507017805

      The People Smugglers are making fools of the Gillard Government and a laughing stock of Australia.

      “.......strong management of our borders and I will provide it.”?—?Julia Gillard, June 24, 2010

    • acotrel says:

      06:15am | 16/11/12

      ‘Since Labor destroyed the workable Coalition Solution and allowed the Nauru facility to rot. ‘

      Your argument is based on a lie, and why am I not surprised ?
      When Howard did the Pacific Solution, it ‘worked’ because he denied asylum seekers access to Australian courts through habeas corpus to be shown just cause for their imprisonment.  That is no longer the legal situation, their basic human rights have been verified by a High Court ruling. Offshore processing will not deter asylum seekers from going on boat cruises, and it probably never has in the past.

    • marley says:

      07:08am | 16/11/12

      @acotrel - so, why is it any better now that the ALP is denying the asylum seekers access to the Australian courts?

    • acotrel says:

      07:52am | 16/11/12

      @Marley
      Asylum seekers may now access Australian courts, that was the decision handed down by the High Court about twelve months ago.  Use of habeas corpus is a basic human right in all western democracies. Do you know differently ?
      Howard is a solicitor - he knew the score !

    • Janey says:

      08:11am | 16/11/12

      Same old, same old eh Acotrel.

    • PJ says:

      08:31am | 16/11/12

      Acotrel

      Gillard proposed the Malaysian Concentration Camp solution.

      Malaysia was clamping down on human rights at the time.

      Turns out Gillard hadn’t even spoken to Malaysia to iron out the details before she threw it out as a solution.

      The High Court canned the Gillard Government twice. Yes two goes and two balls ups.

      Don’t go there with Human rights. Remember indigenous leaders and Amnesty described GillardGovernment policy in the NT as ‘ethnic cleansing.’

      Gillard promised us secure borders (see quote above) and she has failed to deliver. Again

    • A Concerned Citizen says:

      09:29am | 16/11/12

      I am actually surprised the government never proposed anything to overrule that high court decision.

      Then again, you are expecting Liberal or Labor to actually CARE about the issue beyond hoping to get votes; as opposed to actually going ahead and doing it for us.

    • Thrall says:

      10:18am | 16/11/12

      I knew this would happen, the right whine about having on shore processing and how we should go back to the Nauruu solution, and when we do surprise, surprise - the boats don’t stop, it’s still ALP’s fault.  Rudd stopped the Nauruu processing due to the cost to taxpayers - and here you are whining because it costs money!!?!  FFS…
      So. fucking. pathetic.
      The world is a different place from when Howard was in office.  Right wing fundies like you PJ will never be happy because guess what?  People will always try and save themselves, whether it be getting on a boat, plane or goat. 

      Every day must be like Groundhog Day to you?  Constant whining and panicking over your misconceived ideas and pathetic thoughts about how Gillard is the devil..

    • cheap white trash says:

      05:48am | 16/11/12

      Wrong Wrong Wrong,its not Abbott Abbott Abbotts fault,
      Its Rudd and Gillards Fault,no body else you lot F——d this up from day one,
      Labor and only Labor are to blame,you made your bed now LIE in it.

      In John Howard’s last six years, three boats arrived each year, on average. Now how many turn up today on average?
      You lot have no idea.

      This would have to be the funniest thing ive read so far today,
      The Government which had made a 2013 surplus an iron clad commitment, has recently hinted that it might be UNACHIEVABLE,Thats GOLD.
      It wont happen ever i will live on the moon bfore this Government or any Labor Government delivers a Budget surplus.
      But lets not worry about that,its all Abbott Abbott Abbott,its all his Fault,
      MR GRINCH…..........

    • acotrel says:

      06:36am | 16/11/12

      Why are we concerned about boat people coming here, when we have country towns experiencing population loss.  Our problem is not boat people, it is decentralisation. Instead of buggering about with offshore processing, we should put our resources into resettling asylum seekers where they are needed and providing jobs for them.

    • Ted says:

      08:25am | 16/11/12

      No acotrel, the issue is Labor destoyed our boarder protection and we are now living with the conequences. They should be thrown out on this issue alone.

    • iansand says:

      08:47am | 16/11/12

      Is boarder protection and buggering about something to do with the problems of assaults on kids in Catholic residential schools?  I think you have the wrong thread.

    • A Concerned Citizen says:

      09:27am | 16/11/12

      Acotrel- the problem with asylum seekers is a LOT of past examples made extremely poor neighbors and made local areas unlivable for the existing inhabitants (as a number of interviews and now a survey have shown).
      Nobody wants that in their neighborhood, even if it IS shrinking.

      So perhaps what you should be saying is ‘resettle the asylum seekers in areas where local people NEED them’- being that’s the only real basis they might integrate.

      The past policies of placing Asylum seekers on unwilling locals because the government considers it the most productive or convenient place is clearly not working.

    • Gregg says:

      10:02am | 16/11/12

      @acotrel
      ” into resettling asylum seekers where they are needed and providing jobs for them. “
      And exactly what jobs would you provide for them?
      And then if we have a government able to provide jobs for people, should we not be providing them first to all our unemployed and under employed, there already being hundreds of thousands living near or below the poverty line.

      And then in another post claiming the NBN will be a fix you prattle on about how isolated some of regional Australia is!

    • Haxton Waag says:

      05:59am | 16/11/12

      At this point in time, I support attempts to stop people hijacking the refugee system. Those who do so have shown themselves time and again to be ingrates with a despicable sense of entitlement. They do not come here in humility, but in arrogance, insisting on their right to live in our country, but often enough with the intention of bringing the violence and narrow-mindedness of their homelands with them. They want to form enclaves here, alter our law to fit their foolish religious book, and at times commit violence against the welcoming hand. They want to turn Australia into the place they found so terrible, they decided to try to escape it.

      I used to be of the opposite view. Then I started to hear about mobile phone calls to Australian authorities from boats at sea, hunger strikes, destruction of the property put their to serve their needs, and various other forms of politicised, coercive behaviour. The UNHCR may complain about their conditions until the cows come home, but they are not the ones who will later have to deal with the long-term problems these people bring with them. They criticise without taking responsibility. The consequences to Australia in the future could be enormous. We could lose the relative stability we have enjoyed since this nation began. We could lose Australia.

    • Gregg says:

      06:50am | 16/11/12

      Well said Haxton and we all know the breed of the dog having its tail wagged for the past near five years.
      I also support a well run humanitarian policy to help people from refugee camps, people known to be in real need and the current government and Houston report have indicated increasing refugee numbers and for what!
      Just to allow more freeloaders an easier entry.

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      08:57am | 16/11/12

      This is the post of the year. Well said.

    • Expat Ozzie says:

      09:52am | 16/11/12

      @Haxton Wang: What load of alarmist trash. ‘Oh the hordes are coming and their going to destroy Oz’. What a complete load of bollocks. I remember the hysteria of the Vietnamese boat people. My favorite pie shop is run one those blokes.

      I brought a house in Moorooka in Brisbane and and all my friends were warning me about the Sudanese. I never had a problem with them, ever, but my neighbors house was broken into by a white bloke while they were in bed. I saw a horrible incident at the Moorooka bus stop where a four wheel drive drove past and the tossers in it slowed down to hurl abuse and throw bottles at a Sudanese bloke waiting quietly for the bus.

      I’m sorry but my personal experiences don’t stack up to your alarmist dribble.

      “We could lose Australia”

      That’s the funniest piece of extremist crap I’ve heard in a long time Haxton. Even better then PJ or Tony of Pimplestan usual diatribes.

    • Gregg says:

      10:18am | 16/11/12

      @Expat
      There’s certainly no excuse for abuse from white trash as you describe re the bus stop incident and yet you might also want to look a bit deeper.

      Any crime problems with immigrants aside and there have been a few, you’ll likely find Sudanese have come through the controlled UNHCR refugee camps and selection programs that have been in existence for decades, a good system that is currently being undermined by those not prepared to follow the accepted way.

      And then do look at the Vietnamese numbers and you might find that in total they ammounted to relatively few over a number of years and they were not using people smugglers.
      If you have ever visited Vietnam, despite the very obvious differences in standards of infrastructure, you might find the Vietnamese are a very industrious people with cultural attitudes not too dissimilar to what we have in Australia, that being one of the reasons that again crime aside they have fitted in reasonably well.

      There’s reportedly a hundred thousand or so people up in Malysia with plans on heading for Australia according to one Indonesian immigration guy who basically laughed off any attempt by Australia to stop them.
      Perhaps he is happy enough that they will just transutt Indonesia and leave plenty of money there in doing so.
      That one hundred thousand is probably a guess and it could well be many more, certainly also many more Sri Lankans having similar thoughts.

      So whilst even ywo hundred thousand may not be hordes to you, just how many is and more importantly, just how many new people can Australia absorb, like where are they to be housed, schooled and taken care of medically etc., there being numerous pressures on provision of those services not to mention where the employment might come from or ultimately the $$$$$, we having a government unable to cope in a responsible economic way as it is.

    • Haxton Waag says:

      10:55am | 16/11/12

      @Expat Ozzie

      Thank you for your comments. Your argument certainly has something to be said for it. My own comments came more from the heart than the mind. They are the result of the actions of refugees such as those that I mentioned. I did not say, however, that these refugees would destroy Australia. They do have the capability of altering it for the worse, however, perhaps to the point where we would realise we had lost something priceless. I remember how upset I was when I heard about the surf lifesavers being assaulted in Cronulla. I had never heard of a similar situation before. Up to that point I had only ever heard of surf lifesavers being treated with great respect by the entire community. Then, suddenly, they were being assaulted for doing their job, one that they do as a public service, without remuneration. That to me was an instance where people who had been invited to this country in order to help them had shown a despicable disregard for our laws and customs. Their response when the community showed outrage was to escalate the situation through more violence. Perhaps these people or their parents arrived by boat; perhaps they did not. But to have people coming here to live who demonstrate a similar disregard for the standards of behaviour expected in Australia is something I find utterly unacceptable.

    • Expat Ozzie says:

      01:04pm | 16/11/12

      @Gregg: Yes I have been to Vietnam, most recently in August. The Vietnamese are a lovely people, but like all parts of the world they also have crime problems. My problem with this debate is the alarmist angle that is put forward by many, it just isn’t true.

      To assert that immigrants are a sole cause of crime is ridiculous. Last I looked there were plenty of white people in jail and committing crimes. I’m personally sick and tired of this entire debate and the billions being wasted on it’s politics instead of solving the problem.

      For me there will only ever be one way to solve this issue and that is to help to make the countries these people are born in worth living in. You seem like a nice enough chap Gregg, I would bet if your were in one of those countries and had the means to get your family out of a shit hole you would move heaven and earth to do it would you not? I know I would.

      I personally would like to see the money go into the federal police and associated organisations to help them forge links and run operations against the people smugglers. I also think Oz should increase it’s foreign aid programs particularly in Indonesia and Malaysia. I live in Malaysia and they have there own illegal immigrant problem along with a massive corruption problem, they certainly aren’t to worried about Australia’s issue’s, in fact they would prefer them just to keep going.

      Regarding the refugee camps, lets be honest would you sit there and compliantly wait while administrative types take years to sort things out? You would be far more patient then me if you would.

      @Haxton: Sorry, I took your last line a little to literally. I understand you probably didn’t mean destroy. On that line I think it is unlikely to change Australia for the worse. I personally like some of the cultural things brought into the country, China town is always a favorite, and more then a few curry place I love as well.

      Most of what I see in the media regarding changes to Oz by immigrants are little more then beat ups. Lets be serious, things like Sharia law will never get up in Oz, ever. Oz is a well established society that most immigrants want to be a part of not destroy, it is after all the reason many of them took large risks to get here in the first place. There will always be those that want some other way but they will find little real traction in Australian society. Much like not every Ozzie is a member of a motorcycle gang, most of use are sensible people.

      The one thing immigrants bring to Oz is a richness that only seems to enhance Australia not diminish it. Another favorite of mine is the local Kabab shop in Moorooka run by a Turkish immigrant. I go back there still to this day whenever I visit Brisbane. Why? because he is a good bloke. He’s old school and looks after those that frequent his business, something many Australian born businessman have forgotten.

      I hear you regarding the surf life saver incident however isn’t taring everyone with the same brush a little drastic? I seem to remember a group of white thugs getting on a train beating the shit out of a poor bloke who was sitting in his seat during the Cronulla incident. I think Ozzies need to have a long hard look at themselves and their own before they start to point fingers in general directions.

    • Haxton Waag says:

      02:12pm | 16/11/12

      @Expat Ozzie

      I love the variety and other benefits that other cultures bring. Like most people, I assume, I have encountered many very decent people from other nations and cultures and have been at some pains to make them feel welcome in Australia. Perhaps you are right about the real troublemakers and ingrates having little effect on the majority. I hope so. On an individual level, there will be people in Australia who will find it hard to forgive and forget certain crimes, such as the Sydney gang rapes. These had the same shocking effect on me as did the assaults on surf lifesavers, because I could not remember such a thing occurring in Australia before; it seemed foreign and the perpetrators seemed to feel nothing but pleasure at the commitment of their crimes and contempt for their victims. It still seems to me that such behaviour reflects a lack of the values we treasure in Australia, the culture of a more lawless land. The victims of such crimes might be forgiven for wishing that Australia had never taken in those people, or perhaps their parents. Certain cultural practices have also crept into our society from other nations, such as sexual slavery through deception, forced marriage, and female circumcision, and I would very much have preferred that these things had never infected our society. I will agree that Australians also behaved badly during the Cronulla riots.

    • cheap white trash says:

      06:08am | 16/11/12

      @PJ sorry u are wrong mate,making fools of the Gillard Government, they are the fools, and it’s all of their own making…....

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      06:09am | 16/11/12

      You neglected to tell us how we could ABSOLUTELY ensure that if the GST was raised, then other taxes would be removed or reduced. You see, we don’t trust ANY politician to be honest when it comes to our money. 
       
      When GST first came in, a raft of state taxes were supposed to disappear. I don’t know about anywhere else, but in SA, none did and furthermore, the ALP Government added more and simply referred to them as levies. (Save the Murray levy, Emergency Services Levy etc etc) 
       
      Don’t wander in here with HALF a solution.

    • Achmed says:

      08:02am | 16/11/12

      and there were Howards Sugar levy, Ansett levy, Gun Buybacklevy ............

    • iansand says:

      06:14am | 16/11/12

      I reckon we should designate one bit of Australia as the official entry point - my suggestion is the PM’s office - and run a reality TV programme of asylum seekers trying to get there.

    • acotrel says:

      06:50am | 16/11/12

      How would that be any different ?  The PM delegates to the Department of Immigration.  Why should she have dogs and bark herself ? Reality TV should go to Nauru and all the other detention centres and record our disgrace.

    • TimB says:

      07:46am | 16/11/12

      Will there be an obstacle course?

      Wipeout: Asylum Seeker Edition

    • iansand says:

      08:18am | 16/11/12

      Unbeatable Banzuke (and if you don’t know what I’m talking about it is on SBS 1 or 2 sometime most weekends)

    • E-skeg says:

      10:03am | 16/11/12

      @inasand and only successful participants who make it through all three stages are allowed to attemp to get in once they pass the entrance exam!

    • Charles says:

      06:27am | 16/11/12

      Another indictmenet of the boof-headed Gillard government to be sure, but the GST argument is one which is a bit more complex.

      Originally the GST was enough to avail state governments of a virtual torrent of cash, however, due to pretty much all ALP state governnments, this torrent was exhausted within a few short years and we are now back to square one.

      I am all in favour of extending the GST, but it can only happen if it doesn’t fall into spend happy state government hands (which will probably be mostly Labor).  The main issue here is actually political discipline, and I have no confidence that the ALP can actually provide it, and the first part of your article demonstrates their lack of ability to achieve any sort of restraint quite clearly.

    • Kerr Avon says:

      06:45am | 16/11/12

      It’s dead simple really even someone of gillards limited intellect could figure it. Remove the pull factors, the handouts,free housing, free medical etc. the whole ball of wax. Also immediately deport any who break the law since this is a clear breach of the character test that legal migrants have to pass.

    • Mahhrat says:

      06:50am | 16/11/12

      I really am starting to get the feeling that this is a diversionary tactic from people who have no intention of actually fixing anything.

      We could accept 100,000 refugees and not cripple ourselves.

      Alcotrel is right here - if we’re going to do this, we should remove ourselves from the charter.

    • Gregg says:

      08:59am | 16/11/12

      Australia has accepted well more than 100,000 refugees over the two decades prior to 2008 when the latest uncontrolled Kruddy flood commenced, actually probably more than 200,000 over those two decades but it was done through and orderly approach in recognition of Australia’s capacity to absorb and care for refugees in the community and have them assimilate and contribute to our society.

      Unfortunately, employment has been reported as being exceptionally high with refugees in recent years and a high percentage on welfare after five years here.

      If you are proposing that Australia has capacity to take 100,000 in one hit, there are a few aspects you might like to consider such as:
      . housing
      . health
      . education
      And what would be the cost of all that if available and then how would the welfare bill for that additional 100,000 contribute to our society economics?

      And then seeing as there are some 40M+ refugees and IDPs in camps about the planet, probably not counting the latest from Syrian conflict, would you go about an orderly global selection?
      Or if you just propose taking a 100,000 in asia and thereabouts with plans on forcing their way in, what would you do with the next hundred thousand and more?

      Somehow I get the impression you have no real idea!

    • Michael S says:

      10:21am | 16/11/12

      Of course it’s a diversionary tactic.
      Our standard of living is being eroded by massive immigration - housing is no longer affordable, our roads and public transport hopelessly congested, and we’re in serious s*** when the next drought comes. But big business and property developers benefit from it; and because it’s big business and property developers who donate to political parties, we get high immigration.

      But while politicians are happy to make a song and dance, shining the spotlight with money no object while they pretend to be making an effort to keep 8,000 people out; they’re quietly letting hundreds of thousands in legally every year.

    • Craig says:

      07:29am | 16/11/12

      When politics becomes the issue, the solution is to change the system of government.

      We need to see both the Labor and Liberal parties disbanded, the current Australian Constitution dissolved and a new governance system developed for a reformed nation - without states and with a different approach to electin our leadership.

      Democracy gets to stay, but the rest needs a full pull down and rebuild.

      We need to do this now, rather than drifting into ineffectiveness and then anarchy.

    • acotrel says:

      07:56am | 16/11/12

      Tony Abbott could be Theo ?

    • Gregg says:

      09:03am | 16/11/12

      Is that you on the cross benches Craig Thomson?
      And it’ll be you sharing with Peter Slipper as co-dictators for just a little bit of time will it!

    • Gregg says:

      07:32am | 16/11/12

      ” Then in opposition, Chris Bowen had told Parliament it would be “a stain on our national character.’’

      Worse stains were to come. “

      That’s politics Mark and even the former LNP minister for immigration Phillip Ruddock apparently found on a trip to Vietnam a number of years ago that Vietnamese adults were leaving children in the care of parents to attempt a refugee entry abroad, it being accepted that it was just another method of immigration by them and the grandparent he got that information from was no less than a local communist party committee member.

      ” Both sides know it is the pulling power of Australia itself that attracts asylum seekers. “
      It might be more accurate to reflect on that being the reason for the Pacific Solution introduced more than a decade ago by the LNP and completely dismantled when Labor came to power.

      ” The Government argued the deterrent value of the two outposts had never been high and was probably zero given that neither country could offer final resettlement and most refugees would wind up in Australia anyway. “

      We all know it worked, the figures from 2002 to 2007 clearly show that and that it also took time to work.

      ” What ever the deterrent value of two further measures favoured by the Coalition,  there can be no avoiding the fact that picking up the phone to Nauru and PNG has done precisely nothing. “
      Labor did a complete demolition job and have only half done a rebuild and just as the Pacific Solution took time to work, about two years in fact, Labor can hardly wave a magic wand.

      ” Another colossal failure is the craven refusal to discuss the now seriously underperforming GST.
      There are sound policy reasons to broaden its base to include food, health care, and education “

      Is it the GST underperforming or just that the current government has so overspent and continues to overspend, spending beyond our means so that they are on the continual lookout for more revenue so as to attempt to be looking good with expenditure and promises?
      The GST was established on the basis of replacing a raft of services type and sales taxes and it was recognised that there was no sales tax on fresh food, health services and education fees so it was entirely appropriate for those to be excluded from GST then and they should remain so.

      ” This triumph of populist politics over responsible fiscal policy – which demands ever lower taxes and yet more middle-class welfare – has meant that Australia, like most western economies has a structural revenue shortfall. Put simply, outside of atypical boom-times, there is not enough money coming in to meet expectations. Neither is there the political courage to get. “

      So is not the answer to live within our means and to not keep building expectations or at least give some prioritisation to them.

      ” With a swathe of new spending programs in the offing, including the NDIS, dental care, the Gonski education reforms, and healthcare, it is crazy that a discussion of the effectiveness of the GST was excluded from the Henry Tax review. Just as the Howard Government had in 1999, the Gillard Government feared that even discussing change left it exposed to a partisan fear campaign. “

      The Howard government went about balancing their budgets, getting a healthy surplus in place and what Labor governments always fail to realise Mark is that it is policies of minimising regulations and government impositions that will stimulate an economy and by natural healthy growth provide revenues for adequate development of public spending.
      Labor has gone in the other direction, raising spending without seemingly too much awareness of where the funding would come from and then introducing taxes that go towards crippling an economy.

      ” So what we got instead was a crippling high-octane argument which yielded a butchered super-profits tax on big miners and which so far has failed to add a cent to revenue. “
      And yes, that is a typical result.

      ” Wiser heads beyond the party trenches are increasingly concluding that it is our hyper-partisan politics that is now the greatest impediment to problem solving. “
      Wiser heads would or should also know that it is getting the horse before the cart as I have described and Labor also need to know that if you overfeed a horse, not only will a fat horse be less healthy, you stand every chance of running out of feed stock.

      Maybe I too should get on the speaking circuit!

      .

    • Steve says:

      08:08am | 16/11/12

      Hear hear! Now there’s a novel idea live within our means. I agree instead of looking for more money from the economy why not try and save some money for a change. Not the so called savings that the budget has but real cut backs and savings to show the electorate that they respect the taxpayers hard earned cash.

    • Achmed says:

      08:25am | 16/11/12

      “it was recognised that there was no sales tax on fresh food, health services and education fees so it was entirely appropriate for those to be excluded from GST then and they should remain so”
      The GST was not applied to these because Howard did not have the numbers to get the legislation passed in the Senate.  This meant he had to compromise and make a deal with the Democrats in the Senate to pass the legislation.  Not applying the GST on these things was the demand of the Democrats that Howard had to accede to.
      And while people rant about how Howard took the GST to an election…Liberals suffered a 5% swing against them and lost seats in that election.  Not the overwhelming mandate that the Liberal Liars would have people believe

    • St. Michael says:

      10:34am | 16/11/12

      Perhaps the scariest part of this reply is that it’s the first in, oh, forty-odd responses down the page to actually address the economic aspect of the article (kudos Gregg).

      The other 40-odd responses from acotrel down have been firing the usual shots in the eight-year-plus issue of the Yellow/Black/Brown Boat Peril.

      I assure you, ladies and gentlemen, government tinkering with the tax base for shortsighted political reason has a lot more capacity to fuck up your life than a few extra felafels and neckbearded dudes talking about uncovered pieces of meat.

    • John Jones says:

      07:57am | 16/11/12

      We have Nauru “partially” operational! Can anybody enlighten the Australian Public as to the progress being made on Manus. The last I read a few days ago is that there are still problems negotiating with the Islanders who want jobs and to see some personal benefit from the refugee camp. Blocking the local airstrip and threatening legal action to prevent the camp from opening does not help matters. Think it is about time the diplomats and politicians stopped their grandiose speeches about what benefits may appear in the future and talk to the people of Manus.  I agree with Alcotrel we should withdraw from the Charter and in addition those who arrive through the back door should be sent straight back home with no recourse to the legal system.

    • H. Krishna says:

      08:15am | 16/11/12

      Let’s beat up the boat people… again.
      They are like the dog that skinhead conservatives keep in a cage so they can kick it when things don’t go their way.

    • Stephen says:

      09:13am | 16/11/12

      Many of the shrill contributors above are missing the point.

      Party politics is dividing us, putting ideology and “principle” ahead of consensus and reason.

      The asylum seekers are just an example cited by Kenny as to the ongoing consequences of this false divide.

      We must STOP categorising ourselves as “Labour” or “Liberal”, but Australian. And this must start from our elected officials behaving like sensible human beings.

      And THIS must start from us electing people capable of such behaviour, and stop having union poster boys, or corporate spin doctors parachuted into “safe” seats, and then voting like sheep.

      Lets start making them EARN our vote.

    • A Concerned Citizen says:

      09:33am | 16/11/12

      Too right Stephen- it’s pathetic that people are crying foul over Labor’s asylum policy which is completely identical to Liberals’- which they support.
      All these knuckleheads are achieving is telling a political party ‘don’t bother giving us what we actually want- we’re idiots’

      Here’s a funny thought- perhaps people should look up their local candidates, check through their policies (yes actually read), and vote for whichever candidate whose policies we most agree with?
      Like every mature democracy.
      Instead we treat political parties like out favorite football team, who we cheer no matter what simply because our parents did.

    • Gregg says:

      10:27am | 16/11/12

      @Concerned
      The Committee suggestion policies that Labor has introduced are not identical, use of TPVs the outstanding ommission and if people knew in getting here that they would do so for only a temporary stay then that would likely make them think twice.

      The other reason the Labor knuckleheads need to be savagely kuckled is that they supported revoking of what had been working for about six years and then Labor has taken that long to do anything the flood was already of immense proportions.
      It will certainly take a lot more stopping this time and a government committed to much more drastic action.

    • St. Michael says:

      10:37am | 16/11/12

      “Here’s a funny thought- perhaps people should look up their local candidates, check through their policies (yes actually read), and vote for whichever candidate whose policies we most agree with?”

      Better yet, run for Parliament.  If they don’t make a democratic flavour you like, impose your own on them.  We need more independents on the floor of Parliament.

      Rob Oakeshott and Tony Windsor are despised in Australia for one logical reason: the ALP could not have formed a government without them, and it still can’t run its government without them.  You will note that Gillard did not start taking the issue of the child abuse Royal Commission seriouslt until these two guys got behind it.

    • Rosie says:

      09:16am | 16/11/12

      Since yesterday when I hear the two words asylum seekers I think of the Afgan interpreters and what will become of them after our soldiers leave. I am convinced if the Gillard Labor Govt had our border protection under control we wouldn’t be faced with this problem. It would’ve been YES you are welcome to reside in Australia for protection against the Taliban.

      Army Interpreters fear for lives if left to face Taliban

      http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/army-interpreters-fear-for-lives-if-left-to-face-the-taliban-20121114-29ch0.html?skin=text-only

      What is the delay! Why is Gillard, Stephen Smith and Bob Carr dilly dallying about this.There shouldn’t be any questions asked. If the Australian soldiers leave and it is known that the intepreters and their familes lives are at risk from the Taliban Australia should without hesitation grant them residency.

      Australian soldiers couldn’t have done their job at a full capacity if not for the intepreters and for the Gillard Labor Govt to add to their anxiety and fear by refusing to tell us what protection will be offered is shameful. The Govt needs 6 weeks to decide what protection will be offered after the Australian soldiers leave is slack and uncaring. What do they want, these vulnerable people to arrive on rickety boats?????? The mind boggles! Any other time the Govt would rush out to make an announcement but for something like this they require 6 weeks to decide. 6 weeks for vote searching if you ask me.

    • Daz says:

      09:51am | 16/11/12

      It’d be a lot easier for Swanny to balance the budget if we weren’t spending billions on what was a non-problem and what should be a non-problem now. Billions that could be better spent on things like education and health and infrastructure. Labor could have their education revolution but their own incompetence foils them at every turn.

    • Anjuli says:

      09:58am | 16/11/12

      Why is it every-time a leader comes out with a word none of us use in everyday life, we hear it every day in comments there after .Misogynist is the trendy word at the moment before in Keatings time it was recalcitrant ,I am so over it.As for all politician trying to make their place in history so over that too. There is a poem doing the rounds on the internet for Remembrance, A soldier died today ,if any have seen it ,says it all for me.

    • Sarah Bath says:

      11:33am | 16/11/12

      What we urgently need, and we are the only ones that support this, is to enact onshore processing and just basic processing concentrating on health.  We need to integrate these poor people into mainstream society as quickly as possible. We beed to get then into community housing and get them in our medical systems.  How about the humanity. Look what these people have been through.  Furthermore we need to ensure that those who speak out against opening our borders are banned from promoting this hatred

    • Kegaro says:

      12:12pm | 16/11/12

      Sorry for re-quoting ... but there is still a question on the table.  I understand people enter the refugee stream for many reasons.  Regardless of their motivation to make the journey ... if we withdrew from the UN Charter - would there be any change in the arrival / assessment / placing of refugees?  Under the Charter, we agree to accept people and assess their refugee status If we ‘unsigned’ the Charter ... it seems nothing changes ... because ...

      The principle of non-refoulement, which prohibits the return of a refugee to a territory where his or her life or freedom is threatened, is considered a rule of customary international law. As such it is binding an all States, regardless of whether they have acceded to the 1951 Convention or 1967 Protocol. A refugee seeking protection must not be prevented from entering a country as this would amount to refoulement.

    • TimR says:

      12:34pm | 16/11/12

      1 - send boat people back
      2 - broaden gst to include everything
      3 - make fat people pay more to fly

      crisis averted!

    • Esteban says:

      01:02pm | 16/11/12

      The election of the Rudd Government in 2007 has been bad for Australia.

      Had Howard won in 2007 and subsequently handed over to Costello we would be in much better shape than now. All the crap mentioned in this article woyuld not be happening.

      Howard had the courage to introduce the GST with the knowledge that every other leader around the world was smashed at the polls after introducing a consumption tax.

      Howard would have fully expected to lose the next election after the GST but had the balls to press ahead knowing that it was overdue reform that Keating lacked the courage to introduce.

      Yes he manipulated the Tampa issue which got him through that unwinnable election. Clever and sneaky at the same time.

      Swann and Gillard don’t have the courage of Howard to even expand the base of the GST. Safer to leave it to someone else.

      By the way, given that the unwinnable election after the GST was won against the odds because of boat arrivals why hasn’t the penny dropped in the ALP about the depth of feeling on this issue accross Australia?

      Are they that far out of touch?

    • St. Michael says:

      03:53pm | 16/11/12

      “Had Howard won in 2007 and subsequently handed over to Costello we would be in much better shape than now. All the crap mentioned in this article woyuld not be happening.”

      I would concede the sentiments of your post, Esteban—we need courageous political leaders, now more than ever—but respectfully, this bit is crystal-ball stuff.  It’s difficult to know what or how the reaction to the GFC would have otherwise been, mostly because none of us has been subject to intrinsic field extraction and consequently given a blue wang.

      I think we’ve had the old discussion—years ago, actually—about whether Menzies would have had the courage to call Australia’s two divisions home against Churchill’s instructions, or whether the situation necessarily called for an anti-British type like Curtin who had sufficient gumption to do the job.  It’s an interesting what if where I tend on the side that Menzies wouldn’t have, but it’s just that—a what if.

      This is another one of those ‘what if’ scenarios.  We just don’t know for certain whether Howard would have spent up as big as Labor to avoid the suggestion from a defeated ALP that his policies conducted over a decade contributed to the GFC.  Indeed the suggestion could be made that he would’ve been even more desperate to spend simply because he would’ve been personally in the firing line and expected to come up with a solution.

      In essence I trust both the ALP and the LNP about as far as I can throw both of them in a gunnysack.

    • Leigh says:

      01:32pm | 16/11/12

      Let’s not pussy foot around with just the outdated Convention of 1951; we should be withdrawing from the UN altogether - it’s nothing more than a would-be world government full of despots and rorters.

    • franklin says:

      01:43pm | 16/11/12

      Traditionally asylum was a regional problem. Asylum seekers sought sanctuary within their own geographical or cultural environment with the aim of returning home as soon as they safely could. The revolution in communications, ease of transportation, enduring poverty, protracted internal conflicts and social upheaval have combined to create a pervasive feeling of discontent throughout third world countries. This in turn has led to a globalisation of population movement. The end result is that a combined mass of refugees, asylum seekers, economic migrants and illegal immigrants is now converging on affluent western countries in the quest for a better life.


      A recent survey from the Mapping Social Cohesion 2012 report by Monash University researcher Andrew Markus found that less than 25% of those surveyed agreed that asylum seekers arriving by boat should be eligible for permanent settlement, while 38% favoured temporary residence only, 26% said that the boats should be turned back, and 9% believed that all boat people should be deported. The negative attitude to boat people exhibited by those surveyed contrasts markedly to a 75% positive response to refugees selected overseas and entering through the humanitarian program. Additionally, almost 66 per cent said the government was doing a poor job, including 45 per cent who rated Labor’s performance as “very poor”, up from 47 per cent in 2010.

      The negative attitudes of the majority of the electorate to boat people is dissmissed by refugee advocates as populism and attribute it to vilification of asylum seekers by the LNP and the media, but most of us would call that democracy, that the government should act in the interests of the majority.

      Refugee advocates seem utterly incapable of accepting differing points of view on the asylum seeker issue as anything other than wrong, it never seems to occur to them that some issues dont have right or wrong answers, just responses with different outcomes. And the outcome that the majority of the electorate wants is an orderly humanitarian program with allocation of the available places based on need, not financial ability to pay many thousands of dollars to criminal gangs of people smugglers.

    • David V. says:

      02:56pm | 16/11/12

      Australian culture is far more wholeseme than others, so how does “multiculturalism” enrich it.

      Australians are harder workers than others, unlike immigrants and single mothers who expect handouts from the state.

      Australians are better parents, unlike non-Australian men who beat up their wives and children.

      Rape and domestic abuse are two things Australian men don’t commit, unlike those we have imported at taxpayers’ expense. There is no such thing as a bad Australian father or husband, but plenty of selfish and greedy significant others.

    • David V. says:

      03:31pm | 16/11/12

      And why bring more people here when there are Australians who need work? Instead we bring people in on welfare, rather than help our own people first.

    • TrevorA says:

      03:49pm | 16/11/12

      Most of my experience with those who arrive legally or illegally as the opposition puts it, have the benefits of settlement very high it their ambition.
      It first came to my attention when an Indian has been pushing as hard as he can to get his mother here before she turns 55.
      Just recently he amazed me when he said he would be stuck with his mother for the rest of his life if he could not get her out here.
      I decided to pursue this line with others that I had met, and the benefits for the parents and the other social security benefits, out weighed everything else.
      Up to recently I had accepted the right to come until I found the rich are after benefits for parents, and they choose to return home without the parent retirement debt.The poor cannot afford to do this, the middle class and wealthy can.
      My interest for the those who come is being modified by those whose intention the system and they demand all the privileges.
      I have to look at my friend who escaped from Vietnam and lived in Malaysia in a penal camp.
      Why should genuine people be pushed aside by these privileged and wealthy “immigrants”?

    • chuck says:

      04:02pm | 16/11/12

      So called refugee advocates are paid to be just that and in between the bleeding of $‘s into their respective pockets and grandstand ego displays on TV they are little better than social engineers and at worst 5th columnists.
      I have to agree with Leigh the UN is a basket case for a plethora of snouts from dodgy backgrounds and even dodgier countries. Have a look at the make up of the various committees if you dare!
      No wonder western Europe is slipping back into recession and as for Africa and Sth America they are reeling with a decimation of their flora and fauna and unrestrained population growth. Oh for Soylent Green !

 

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