The plague is already on both their houses

Overflow says:

06:01am | 20/02/12

The biggest winner out of this is not the Libs but the kooky Greens.  If the country were to vote today unfortunately those on the Left would rather cew off their arm than vote for Abbott and will put the Greens first.  The result would bea tragedy not only for Labor but this country

Mack says:

06:30am | 20/02/12

The majority of voters want a new election - not a re-play of the current disaster that we have. Gillard or Rudd - it makes no difference as we are sick to death of the Labor government, no matter who is their leader.

Tony of Poorakistan says:

06:44am | 20/02/12

The real danger is that the ALP might sacrifice Gillard to get rid of Rudd by putting up a comprimise candidate that everyone will vote for in a show of ‘‘solidarity’‘. God help us if it is one of the trio of ex-ACTU presidents (Crean, Ferguson, Shorten). The country will go broke before the next election as they repay favours, give concessions to blue-collar workers and basically shaft the middle and upper classes.

gobsmack says:

07:00am | 20/02/12

If Rudd were a LNP mole it would all make sense.

Skip says:

07:06am | 20/02/12

It’s! Not a matter of laughing it is a shame that this country is being handled by unemployable idiots who have not done a hard days work in their life and spend other peoples money and wasted it.  It is a sad day for Australia that it has been handled the way it has been just to stay in Government!! Please save us all the embarrassment and both go!!

Rosie says:

07:28am | 20/02/12

I am a staunch Liberal supporter and not laughing but extremely happy that for a change someone from the media has written an article with some insight for the people about the murky mess we as a nation are deep in.

Thank you Tory and totally agree it is now not about the interests of the politicians in Canberra, but what is best for the nation and the people these politicians represent.

“Some time between now and Tuesday-week when Parliament sits again and Caucus reconvenes, Gillard, Rudd and the Labor powerbrokers need to decide if either of them have any hope of clawing back a shred of credibility after a battle that is set to only become more bloody.

Because at present it looks like the war is all about spite and self-interest. No one’s even pretending it’s about the good of the voters. If these two are the only candidates, neither will be able stand in the PM’s courtyard and declare they lead “a good government that lost its way.”

Good for Cheeseman and Gibbons for speaking out. Wilkie was another that needs to be congratulated for putting the people first and said that he owed it to the people so told us that in November he met with Rudd and they discussed leadership etc. A pity more of the Labor politicians aren’t willing to tell us exactly what is going on.

There was never a ballot when Julia Gillard took over, perhaps that is one of the reasons we are about to have one now. The public will have the knowledge to who were the backers of the faceless men, the very people that started this mess in the first place.

Gregg says:

07:57am | 20/02/12

@Tony le Poorer,
Billy the mum in law’s GG kid was never an ACTU President, not that it has stopped him from receiving some Labour cutlery and maybe the GG ought to check cutlery drawers too.
He rode in from the west on the back of the Beaconsfield Mine rescue, Channel seven seemingly using him as a front man even though it is likely he had never been too close to any mine workings.
You could gather that from some of the comments he was making that Koche would lap up as if he was an expert and yet they just showed his ignorance.

Ron E Coote says:

08:11am | 20/02/12

@ Overflow.
The Greens have been exposed for the shallow, rank opportunists that they truly are. Nobody in their right minds would put more power in the hands of Doctor Bob and his commie cohorts.
A vote for Greens is a vote for Labor, and vice-versa. The Labor/Greens alliance is one of mendacity and conceited complicity. This experiment is over, and it proves that these clowns should never be trusted at the levers of government until they run the broom through both their houses.

hadenough says:

08:15am | 20/02/12

How about a third choice? Anyone for Stephen Smith?

john says:

08:26am | 20/02/12

Labor will win the next election Peter Garret will be PM & Penny Wong his deputy.

Bill of Queensland says:

08:50am | 20/02/12

THIS is NOT the RIGHT TIME to be GREEN OR RECYCLING! Even the RED DOG cannot turn around the mess created by the RED HEAD! Existing consumer legislation covering defective products and products not fit for purpose would give Australian voters the right to return the product, the LABOR government, and demand a replacement. Who lives by the stiletto shall perish by the stiletto! Julia Gillard scotched the worm, but did not kill it. Who leads LABOR to CERTAIN DEFEAT will not matter! Changing the sales manager will not change snake oil into an effective cure! Kevin Rudd was the ineffectual leader during the Ocean Viking fiasco! Julia Gillard participated in the catastrophically costly Building the Education Revolution (BER), insulation and Malaysia solution. Changing leaders will not achieve anything! A CHANGE of GOVERNMENT is the ANSWER!

Mark says:

09:02am | 20/02/12

@Rosie

Of course Wilikie’s statement had nothing to do with the Prime Minister telling him where to stick his threat after Harry Jenkins gave the Government the numbers it needed to do so.

Ron e says:

09:08am | 20/02/12

@ John
What about Darren Cheesman for Labor leader?
Does he have any baggage?
You blokes are incredibly funny.

PsychoHyena says:

09:38am | 20/02/12

@Ron E Coote, and that’s why in some seats a vote for the Greens went to the Liberals/Nationals.

Rosie says:

09:44am | 20/02/12

Mark

Sadly you and I know exactly what the problem is. It is a trait of every self serving politician. In this situation I was just glad that Wilkie said what he said, a better insight in the leadership squabble happening in the Labor party and that it wasn’t a media beat up like we were constantly told by Labor MPs.

Ron e says:

10:08am | 20/02/12

@Psychohyena.
How many seats would that be, hyena?
Labors two-party preferred score has always been helped along very nicely by the Greens. That’s my point, and you know it.

Ben says:

01:33pm | 20/02/12

Imagine if Howard were still leading the Libs. The two-party preferred gulf would be 70-30. It still amazes me that these imposters were the ones to finally beat him. Looks like the joke is on us eh?

PW says:

01:40pm | 20/02/12

Mack: “The majority of voters want a new election - not a re-play of the current disaster that we have. Gillard or Rudd - it makes no difference as we are sick to death of the Labor government, no matter who is their leader.”

Ah yes another Lib with an identity problem. Do you always refer to yourself as “we”. And you might like to offer some sort of evidence that “the majority of voters want a new election”. I cannot recall any recent polling having been done on this matter. The problem here is that Liberals have a born-to-rule mentality and have only ever been able to accept the umpire’s decision when it has gone in their favour.

Your chance comes in around 18 months. Until then, you will just have to wait.

Mack says:

02:08pm | 20/02/12

@PW: Here is a poll in today’s Herald Sun:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/julia-gillard-urged-to-strike-first-and-sack-kevin-rudd/story-fn7x8me2-1226275237315

I think you will find the results pretty much the same in ANY newspaper you care to look at.

Bruce says:

11:47am | 21/02/12

@Ron

Adam Bandt is a Green MP thanks to Liberal preferences. A vote for Liberal is a vote for the Greens.

Brian Taylor says:

06:00am | 20/02/12

ahh acotrel, your poor queen bee is going to be kicked out of the PMs chair next week too bad lol, bet my grin is bigger than yours ATM lol

Bertrand says:

06:11am | 20/02/12

And why is Gillard any better? The disarray coming from her office over past weeks has to say something about her management abilities.

These two ‘leaders’ are both equally responsible for absolutely trashing the Labor brand and making it unelectable for at least the next 3 terms of government.

Little Joe says:

06:21am | 20/02/12

@ Acotrel

No ..... Rudd is symptomatic of what is wrong with the ALP.

onlooker says:

06:35am | 20/02/12

I respect your opinion acotrel but many Australian’s do not agree with you. Gillard weather or wrongly is perceived as a liar, that is instant loss of respect. Respect is earned, its not given out freely and I doubt she can ever regain the trust of many. Kevin Rudd with all his flaws did not lie to us nor has he deceived us, he does not speak to us like we are mentally deficient or backward 3 year olds, he is personable unlike Gillard. Many many lifetime Labor voters were lost when Gillard knifed Rudd , myself and my husband and family amongst them. While Gillard leads we will never vote Labor.I hope Rudd does challenge and if he loses I hope he quits. Revenge is sweet served cold.

TChong says:

06:37am | 20/02/12

agree acotrel
KR has a “dicky ticker” , he aint short of a quid,  so why the hell would he want to lead a party in opposition ?

Mahhrat says:

06:40am | 20/02/12

You make interesting points.  I think Julia was an effective Education Minister too.

Anna B says:

07:00am | 20/02/12

Are you a doctor TChong?

MickyD says:

07:25am | 20/02/12

TChong only Rudd is able to repair the PR damage done by Gillard.  Not Shorten or Smith or even Crean.The ALP needs him and he needs them for his ego. He won’t save them from political destruction but he will lessen the damage done by voters. He is healthy and it isn’t about money. If you don’t understand this simple concept I suggest you read more on local politics before giving us a rather simple comment.

TChong says:

07:41am | 20/02/12

anna b
can you recall Rudd going for some cardiac surgery recently?
Mickey D
your POV is valid, so is mine- so save us from your simple, ignorant arrogance.

acotrel says:

07:49am | 20/02/12

@AnnaB
Rudd had a heart op a short time ago.  A look at your own mortality modifies your thinking !

acotrel says:

07:52am | 20/02/12

@Brian Taylor
‘ahh acotrel, your poor queen bee is going to be kicked out of the PMs chair next week ‘

Is that a promise, an aspiration or simply a wish ?

MickyD says:

07:55am | 20/02/12

TChong your POV can’t be valid if it is wrong.

acotrel says:

07:57am | 20/02/12

@Onlooker
Gillard might be perceived to be a liar.  But where did that perception come from - all the video clips about the ‘carbon tax promise’ were edited to cut her statement off short before she again expressed her preference for an ETRS.  In wonder why Tony Abbott hasn’t been labelled a liar, he has much more form.  Perhaps there is a bit of sexism at play ? The Libs grasping at straws AGAIN ?

Gregg says:

08:04am | 20/02/12

@Acca,
You use competent twice to describe Rudd and then go on to talk about his shortcomings in leadership being lack of consulting and delegating.
Such oxymoron stuff just as Rudd is.
Just so you know, there’s a lot of foreign people he has insulted too so you could hardly say he is a good foreign minister just because he has been trotting around here there and everywhere which probably includes a lot of places and events in which Australia does not have any relevant reason to be involved.

PG says:

08:14am | 20/02/12

Actually the Rudd swearing video just shows why he is so much more popular with the voters than Gillard. Everyone gets frustrated and swears at times, people can relate to that. People can’t relate to Gillard. Either way this is killing Labor and neither of them can lead.

ToughNub says:

08:15am | 20/02/12

Oh TChong, your language is on the Pong…

Looks to me like MickeyD put forward a considered response, that looks a little deeper that simply slathering a different POV as simple, ignorant arrogance. hmmm interest choice of words TChong - that would also explain your Coalition parrot blather mate.

You see, KR may have a dicky ticker physically, however he has 4 attributes that may just balance off his very bad past form, which seem to be missing with coalition leadership today:

1. He has real heart when the going get’s tough - as bad as he behaves often
2. He has real gonads, real good old fashion balls - sadly lacking in the preppy coalition ranks
3. He has intestinal fortitude (aka guts mate) whereas Abbott has chosen the dark path of hate speech and toxicity
4. He has a real spine - not a wobbly, bendy, whip-around-with-the-daily-wind version that seems to afflict his opponents…

So mate, balance those off against his very bad performance previously and he measures up quite well against the motley crew of no-hopers with have in the Coalition (wet sops and whiners), the Gillard Mob (deceptive and faceless backstabbers) and the Greens ( The Heads Between the Buttocks Party)...

Simple , ignorant arrogance is a knife that cuts both ways Mr TCHong.

Can I get you a Band-Aid mate? Stop the blood flow?

Peter Lougheed says:

08:33am | 20/02/12

Onlooker, you make the comment that “Kevin Rudd with all his flaws did not lie to us nor has he deceived us”.  I disagree.  To start with, he called himself a ‘fiscal conservative” during the 2007 election, then revealed his true colours as a typical “tax-and-spend” social democrat when he over-reacted to the North American/Europ financial crisis.  Then there was his “greatest moral challenge of our generation” routine which he abandoned when he was pushed by Gillard and, once again, over-reacted. 
The guy is an empty suit who will make whatever noises he thinks necessary to get votes.  As is the case with Gillard, I simply don’t trust anything he says.

acotrel says:

08:46am | 20/02/12

@Little Joe
‘No ..... Rudd is symptomatic of what is wrong with the ALP. ‘

Name one person in the LNP who can hold a candle to him ?  They are all intellectual pygmies beside him. It is why the LNP is a dud, do nothing party.

’

TChong says:

08:52am | 20/02/12

tuffnob
yeah, whatevr you reckon
i’m not baracking for rudd, i am saying from a purely healthy perspective, why would anyone want the job, specially if you have a medical condoition where stress probaly isnt recommended
Mickey d
no need for such low self esteem.
i have no problem how wrong you are about anything.
i have often read ( so know you do practice what you preach) and support your   right to be ill informed about whatever you choose.
Moving along…,

MickyD says:

09:12am | 20/02/12

TChong I don’t understand your reply. It seems either you have gone off tangent or you have talked yourself into a corner. You would get more respect here on the Punch if you were able to admit you got it wrong, at least you be making a lesser fool of yourself. You want to move on like Gillard wants to move forward for the same reason.

EnoEtov says:

09:19am | 20/02/12

TChong works for the ALP so wouldn’t pay attention to any of his comments. He has a paid agenda.

john says:

09:25am | 20/02/12

@acotrel “He is doing a good job as Foreign MInister - leave it at that !”

No he is not.

  In google search world news Rudd is number 1 . Dirty laundry for all the world too see and will now believe what Australians are really like.  What a disgrace, not all Australian citizens deserve this kind of publicity.

Ron E Coote says:

09:31am | 20/02/12

At the crux of all of this toing and froing about Rudd and Gillard is this:
How is a change going to improve Labor’s stench of death in the polls?
On one hand you’ve got a bloke who was that crook as a PM that he was knifed by his own party. Clearly not much has changed with Rudd since then, because he’s obviously still putting his own interests above those of his own party. On the other hand, you have another shi*house PM who basically hasn’t been able to get her story straight since the days of real/fake Julia.
I think I know already how the voters of Australia are going to “reward” the Labor Party for going to such incredible lengths to provide us with their best possible candidate.

Rosie says:

09:35am | 20/02/12

acotrel

Still saying Kevin Rudd is doing a good job as Foreign Minister while implying that Julia Gillard remaining as our PM. acotrel, for goodness sake put the interests of the people that these two Labor power hungry numbskulls represent as first priority.

The vast majority loathe Gillard, the trust and respect for the position she holds has vanished. It hasn’t just vanished in thin air, she, the faceless men and the minority Labor government she leads lost it by being a self serving dishonest government. Good old Wilkie found out the hard way and now has become an Independent in the true sense. A pity Oakeshott and Windsor wouldn’t follow suite. They should rip up their agreement with Gillard. This will leave the Labor Party to deal with the matter in caucus away from the media putting the people’s interest before theirs.

Rudd will be Rudd and is not to be blamed for the mess we are in. If Gillard and her backers came clean when they decided to knife Rudd, they wouldn’t have had the task of making out all was well with Kevin as our foreign minister. Gillard’s was desperate to remain the PM after the 2010 elections, therefore had no choice but to allow Rudd the freedom to pay her back for what she did to him. Unfortunately, the country and its people are the sufferers of this bizarre, murky mess we are in. The caucus should not have relented to Rudd if he was as bad as they say, instead they gave him the job he wanted and allowed him to slowly carry out his pay back plan.

Personally, I think both power hungry numbskulls shouldn’t be our PM. Only a fresh face will bring respect and trust back for the position of PM, then will the people start listening again to how and what the government he or she leads.

Please acotrel no more political scoring but ways of putting an end to this mess and having a government that will govern.

PsychoHyena says:

10:02am | 20/02/12

@Peter Lougheed, I’m sorry but didn’t the Liberals say that they were going to spend an equal amount of money to stimulate the economy? Or was that after the fact when they saw it worked?

Louise in Sydney says:

11:02am | 20/02/12

For those such as Onlooker who state Gillards problem is respect due to her “lies” , come on!  What about ‘Honest” John, renowned in government, both sides, as being a pathological liar.  THe man couldn’t lie straight in bed. 

What are the never ever GST??

Rudd is a sociopath, the clips of him swearing and all the media reports of him banging his head repeatedly against a wall because a press conference went one question too long proves this. 

This behaviour is not that of a passionate man, but a complete nutcase.  He’s a failure and he should step right back.

Mr Dicky Ticker says:

11:09am | 20/02/12

TChong just because someone has heart surgery or a dicky ticker as you call it does not mean they can’t participate in politics etc.

I’ve had 2 heart operations over 10 years ago and I have been running 3 separate businesses and my dicky ticker as you called it has not slowed me down. I get yearly check ups and I’ve got loads more to plan and look forward to.

An off the cuff statement made in haste and you have lost significant credibility to say the least. Maybe you should stick to topics you are familiar with like the Wiggles.

Peter Lougheed says:

11:28am | 20/02/12

@PsychoHyena (at 11:02am).  Written like a true ALP partisan hack.  Quick, someone has said something mean about Rudd/Gillard!  We must make irrelevant comment about the Liberals!  Personally, I really don’t care what the Liberal’s position was.  The response to the financial crisis was a panicky over-reaction as was the guaranteeing of bank deposits.
My comment was about Rudd pretending to be a “fiscal conservative” (his phrase), then outing himself as a tax-and-spend social democrat in his essay in the Monthly and in his budgetary measures once in power.  Either he was cynically dishonest in the 2007 campaign or he had a stunning conversion in his economic philosophy after being elected . . . . and I think we all know which one it was.

Babs says:

01:03pm | 20/02/12

The Public Service connection is an interesting one.He certainly doesn’t seem competent outside the protected workshop environment of a safe job. And there’s always been something about the man that comes across as deeply phony. What is really strange is the way ‘ordinary folk’ have really bought his TV persona as though this presentation of himself were the real man, when anecdotally he sounds like an arrogant nerd who despises the ordinary folk for our, well, ordinariness. Sorry Kevin, I come from Queensland, I know people who’ve worked with you, and you don’t really seem to be ‘here to help’, at all.

Ando says:

01:38pm | 20/02/12

TChong made a fairly simple observation.Get over it .
I think the best possible outcome for Labor is to lose with Gillard and start from scratch afterward . They should never have removed Rudd but bringing him back now makes them look even worse

Against the Man says:

02:10pm | 20/02/12

Poor TChong Labor’s soon to be unemployed PR guy, at least now we know he works for the Gillard faction?

John the Zombie says:

05:57pm | 20/02/12

Lets set some things out for both acrotel and TChong. When Gillard knifed Rudd and took the leadership there was large calls by her backers to drop Rudd and put him on the back bench where he would be no threat. The reason this did not happen was the fact that there was going to be such a back lash from Queensland that the federal labor feared losing Queensland and within weeks the tone against Rudd changed. All of a sudden Kevin was one of the guys and he should be given his job back as foreign minister. Another example of Labor doing what ever it can to hold power.

Now lets point a few more things that came out. Before you two start clapping your hands for Gillard remember this. Gillard was one of the MP’s who talked Rudd into dropping the ETS.

Another thing I should point out to you is that Penny Wong stated in a TV interview that a carbon tax was the wrong way to go about solving climate change.

Another and last point I want to make is to point out to you that China has told its airlines flying to in to and out of Europe not to pay the carbon tax. Funny about this since we were told that once we introduced it other countries will follow. So can you tell be guys, when is china introducing the carbon tax as well?

Nawrat says:

06:30am | 20/02/12

The only resolutions let the Voter’s decide what to do with the Marx Brother’s (Sister)

MickyD says:

06:37am | 20/02/12

You assume Gillard gives a crap about anyone other than herself. She is our worst PM ever and is actually getting worse each day! This historic shame she has brought on herself, Australia and the ALP must never, ever be forgotten! The Labor party is getting paid by taxpayers to continue this shameful behaviour instead of running the country? Enough is enough!

acotrel says:

08:52am | 20/02/12

@Nawrat
‘The only resolutions let the Voter’s decide what to do with the Marx Brother’s (Sister)’
The ghost of Mr B.A.SAntamaria walks again - you must adore Tony Abbott ?

John says:

09:06am | 20/02/12

@Gravelly

The Prime Minister already did. In just August, 2010. You lot lost, remember?

Mickey T says:

12:15pm | 20/02/12

@ MickyD - “The Labor party is getting paid by taxpayers to continue this shameful behaviour instead of running the country?”

Strange comment MickyD.

266 bills have passed this Parliament, compared with 108 in the first years of the Howard government, where they had a *clear majority*.

This parliament is functioning well. This parliament is able to engage with the cross-benchers to make sure outcomes have occurred in the national interest.

Naturally, rusted on conservative voters are unable to accept or see this, probably because their collective heads are too deep in sand.

Chris says:

05:19pm | 20/02/12

@ Mickey T… so the only thing you guys can hang your hat on is the idea that 200+ bits of legislation is better than about 100???
I am just sick of that argument… it is beyond facile…
Who said ‘more’ legislation is a good thing… in my book I would think less is better… we are grossly overgoverned as it is!  Maybe a govt that made up nothing new and instead just repealed stuff would be better!

LJ Dots says:

06:31pm | 20/02/12

Mickey T, this is the first Government I’ve seen where the volume of legislation passed is used as some kind of indicator of success. Have you actually read Hansard and understand what the 266 bills relate to.

It’s not a scoring system.

Martin says:

09:09am | 20/02/12

@cwt

Fortunately, Australia is a democracy. If you don’t like it, emigrate.

Rick says:

12:59pm | 20/02/12

@Martin
Australia is a democracy…..please explain!

Democracy means rule by the people.
Oligarchy means rules by the few.
Politocracy means rule by the political parties.

What are we ?

In a true democracy a la Switzerland only the people are sovereign with the legal right to modify via a petition their constitution or repeal or modify any laws via a petition, not just the political parties and the people IRRELEVANT.

CAN YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE????? 
Shit happens and will keep happening for as long as we still stay what we are IRRELEVANT.

Esteban says:

01:03pm | 20/02/12

Martin. Fortunately in a democracy even those who don’t like democracy can have a say and don’t need to emigrate.

Martin says:

02:06pm | 20/02/12

@esteban

I’m sure they’d be happier as foreign dictators where they can call elections whenever it suits them.

Mark says:

09:11am | 20/02/12

John Howard is the worst PM since Federation.

Maree says:

10:03am | 20/02/12

Paul Keating is the worst PM since Federation just behind Juliar.

jaki says:

10:04am | 20/02/12

@ Mark- You’re not the first idiot to say that…..

Dash says:

10:07am | 20/02/12

@Mark:

Lowest unemployment rate in 30 years
restoration of the nations AAA credit rating that Keating lost
Repayment of $96billion in ALP debt
Consistent surplus Federal budgets
$27billion left to the Rudd ALP
GDP growth the envy of the western world
5 years of consecutive PAYG tax cuts

And you think he’s the worst??? - lol

Big statement, but no facts. Seems to be the ALP way. make the big statement and deliver nothing!

james says:

11:06am | 20/02/12

Howard years.

Rule 1.
Blame the ALP
Rule 2.
Blame the states
Rule 3.
Do nothing.

SimonFromLakemba says:

11:45am | 20/02/12

@James

Rule 1.
Blame the ALP
Rule 2.
Blame the states
Rule 3.
Do nothing.
Rule 4.
Use Muslims as political footballs
Rule 5.
The ABC is biased so stack it with right wing lackeys
Rule 6.
Losing the election buy votes with pork barreling

james says:

01:32pm | 20/02/12

Thanks Simon

Dash says:

02:02pm | 20/02/12

@SimonFromLaborville

As opposed to life under the ALP:

Rule 1.- If in doubt blame Tony Abbott
Rule 2. - If in doubt blame Tony Abbott
Rule 3. - Refer Rule 1.
Rule 4. - Refer rule 2.
Rule 5. - NewsLtd is biased so hold a socialist media inquiry
Rule 6. - Losing the election, change the leader AGAIN!
Rule 7. - Promise cheaper groceries
Rule8. - Don’t deliver
Rule 9. - Promise cheaper fuel
Rule 10. - Don’t deliver
Rule 11. - Promise a coast guard
Rule 12. - Don’t deliver
Rule 13. - Promise to save the planet
Rule 14. - Implement a tax - (tell people it’ll reduce world temperatures)Rule 15. - Promise not to touch the private health rebate
Rule 16. - Prove that’s a lie
Rule 17.  - Promise Root and Branch Tax reform.
Rule 18. - Refer rules 10 and 12
Rule 19. - Make shit up - e.g. An East Timor Solution
Rule 20. - Tax the big taxpayers more - Flood levy
Rule21. - Handout to ALP lazy arses sitting on beaches
Rule 22. - Tax the big taxpayers more - Carbon tax
Rule 23. - Refer rule 21.
Rule 24. - Reduce the tax base
Rule 25 -  Put more tax burden on the people already paying all the tax
Rule 26 - Redirect tax to lazy arsed ALP voters smoking dope
Rule 24.  - If all else fails, blame Tony Abbott

Knemon says:

03:16pm | 20/02/12

@ Dash - A good accountant should be able to count to 27

abc says:

07:22am | 20/02/12

Carbon - United Nations - Tax, the first letters spell out what many think about this government.

Rhiannon says:

07:59am | 20/02/12

Absolutely agree with you Vivian! We have a PM who is an absolute embarrassment, who has admitted she knows nothing about foreign policy, has bodyguards turn up to defense briefings, cannot effectively manage the party she leads let alone the country, and whos idea of a good eco saving policy is to trust an economist with an environmental policy that she has sealed so tightly that 30 years after her departure the tax payer will still be paying to get out of it!

Then again, lets save ourselves the thought process required to discuss the potential result between Rudd and Dullard, and lets just as the American’s whats going to happen. They seem to know more than even our own politicians do.

ibast says:

07:57am | 20/02/12

Because they don’t have any?

Stiffy says:

08:54am | 20/02/12

And just think (but not too hard), everyone will get the chance to vote out Rudd at the election. Gotta be a win win for the nation.
Wonder what all the cross benchers that actually prop up the country’s minority government will see of the change to Rudd.

acotrel says:

08:55am | 20/02/12

If you want to know their policies, just ask George Pell.

Reader says:

09:39am | 20/02/12

Nobody (from the dark side) likes a thinker,

Govt@FauxCitizen says:

09:54am | 20/02/12

@acotrel…and if you want alp policy go ask bbrown?

Wynston Cruso says:

01:00pm | 20/02/12

I seriously can’t believe that there are still fanatical ALP supporters out there even after the worst performance by a party and a PM in Australia ever. It’s no wonder that we got into this shit storm to begin with. I’m sure that the ALP’ers deserve Jules, but the rest of us who have our heads screwed on deserve a lot better than that joke.

Clive says:

02:14pm | 20/02/12

@wynston

I seriously can’t believe that there are still fanatical Coalition supporters out there even after the worst performance by a party and a PM in Australia ever. Fortunately, not enough of you to have won an election since then.

Ron Vincent says:

03:32pm | 20/02/12

ibast you goose. It suits you to turn a blind eye to the debacle of politics in this country since 2007. You must be one of the 30%, along with alcotel and mates employed by the Labor Party to write your rubbish, who would still vote Labor. Go somewhere to a quiet corner and give yourself a good big uppercut. Hey, wait there, don’t use your fist, it still wouldn’t
wake you up, use your left wing.

Anubis says:

08:16am | 20/02/12

@ Brodo - Just what is the Government “getting done”?  They are dysfunctional, they are imposing new taxes on everyone, spending like there is no tomorrow (Australia’s largest Government debt - ever), engaging in class warfare, race baiting for political gain, overseeing the increase on the cost of living to the point where even people who are “well off” are finding it difficult to even meet the household bills, overseeing the destruction of manufacturing in Australia, sitting back and watching while the Banks seize control of monetary policy from the Reserve Bank, watching and doing nothing while jobs are being sacrificed by the thousands in order to employ people in India, interfering in the investigation of one of their own who is probably going to be shown to be a thief, embezzler, liar and general rock lizard. If this is what you mean by “getting things done” then I suppose they are.

Badjack says:

08:18am | 20/02/12

Very well said Brodo, I agree with everything you say. Unfortunately most people who know me think I am brain dead.

Angel says:

08:23am | 20/02/12

“The Government is getting things done”

They sure are.

+ A carbon tax that nobody needs or wants.
+ More boats carrying more illegal immigrants.
+ The removal of incentives to retain private health insurance, therefore reducing the burden on the s**thouse public health system.
+ Unequaled financial waste through farcical ‘programmes’ like BER and pink batts.

With this, and the continued cover-up of Craig Thomson and his fetish for union member-subsidised prostitutes, they sure *are* getting things done.

Cue your boring and typical blame-shifting of Gillard’s failures onto a) the media (note how it was once just Mr Murdoch you blamed, but now it seems because Labor are truly stuffed, it’s all media to blame, even the sacred Fairfax and ABC?), and b) Tony Abbott (you’d think he was the king-maker himself, eh?). 

Gillard and Labor.  Utterly and completely useless and irrelevant.

MDMConnell says:

08:41am | 20/02/12

a) Rudd has been openly trying to tear down Gillard for 18 months

b) Wilkie’s blown the whistle and admitted Rudd was planning a challenge as far back as November.

c) Both sides are publicly slagging each other off.

d) Their OWN MPs are calling them “psychopaths” and “primma donnas”

How is this NOT a new story??

Peter Lougheed says:

08:42am | 20/02/12

Brodo:  “The Government is getting things done”.  They sure are;  it takes real skill to organise a program that manages to cost taxpayers $680 on a set top box that costs $30 - $45 wholesale.

The Tealady of the Apocalypse says:

08:59am | 20/02/12

Yes Brodo, “the Government is getting things done”.  But, in the same way that my dog “gets things done”, it’s unpleasant, smelly and someone else needs to clean it up.

acotrel says:

09:02am | 20/02/12

@Angel
‘A carbon tax that nobody needs or wants.’

The carbon price legislation was passed through the democratically elected parliament !

Tyr says:

09:13am | 20/02/12

Spot on, Angel!

Brodo says:

09:26am | 20/02/12

@Anubis

“Just what is the Government “getting done”?”

They priced carbon for starters. Call it a tax all you want, any carbon pricing scheme starts with a fixed price. The end result is an emissions trading scheme which Howard took to the 2007 election. Seriously this whole Juliar nonsense is far too simplistic and ignores the bigger picture; just the way Tony likes it. It facilitates a great one-liner but has no substance.

“They are dysfunctional, “

So dysfunctional that they passed a bill so that private health insurance is means tested. About time. Getting rid of bad policy, as the rebate was, is good. This is one example of many bills they have passed for the better.

“they are imposing new taxes on everyone,”

Everyone? I don’t think so. You’ll have to be more specific. The only tax I remember being imposed on everyone is the GST that Howard introduced. Good on him for taking it to an election. And don’t put out some tripe like Gillard has no mandate for pricing carbon. It has been on the agenda for a decade or more.

“spending like there is no tomorrow (Australia’s largest Government debt - ever), “

To prop up the economy during the GFC and it worked. Hundreds of thousands of jobs would have been lost without it and our debt is relatively fine.

“engaging in class warfare, “

The only class warfare going on relates to the rich trying to stay rich and the rich are winning. The private health care rebate should be means tested. If you can afford private health care pay for it yourself. You do not need to be subsidised by those earning less money.

“race baiting for political gain, “

Is this a reference to the Australia Day protest? If you think that you are deluded. There were errors in judgement that lead to a very unfortunate and dangerous situation. There was no political gain to be made for Labor.

“overseeing the increase on the cost of living to the point where even people who are “well off” are finding it difficult to even meet the household bills,”

We are in the midst of the GFC. Australia is only beginning to see the effects of it but on a global scale we are doing very well. Seriously stop whinging or go live in Europe.

I got sick of responding. You took every negative thing you could and blamed the Government without any evidence or justification. Hello Tony.

Brodo says:

09:54am | 20/02/12

@Angel

“+ A carbon tax that nobody needs or wants.”
Carbon pricing has to happen and I for one want it. 
“+ More boats carrying more illegal immigrants.”
You say this like there is an easy fix to a very complex problem. What should they do Angel? “Stop the boats.”

“+ The removal of incentives to retain private health insurance, therefore reducing the burden on the s**thouse public health system.”
This never worked. All it did was subsidise the private health insurance companies to the tune of 4 billion dollars.

“+ Unequaled financial waste through farcical ‘programmes’ like BER and pink batts.”
The BER worked. There’s an independent report available. If you are capable of doing some of your own research instead of being brain-washed by Abbott’s slogans then I suggest you find it and read it. Incentivising efficient energy use in homes was a good idea. It was unfortunate what happened and should have been better managed.
“With this, and the continued cover-up of Craig Thomson and his fetish for union member-subsidised prostitutes, they sure *are* getting things done.”
Fair work has acknowledged it has taken too long but they are working independently. There is no cover-up. Regardless he would not be convicted until well after the next election so not much could change in the near term unfortunately.
“Cue your boring and typical blame-shifting of Gillard’s failures onto a) the media (note how it was once just Mr Murdoch you blamed, but now it seems because Labor are truly stuffed, it’s all media to blame, even the sacred Fairfax and ABC?), and b) Tony Abbott (you’d think he was the king-maker himself, eh?).” 
The media likes bad news because it sells. It’s fact. Unfortunately though Labor have not been able to sell their achievements well of which there have been many.
“Gillard and Labor.  Utterly and completely useless and irrelevant.”
Not so. Gillard has managed to get many important bills through a hung parliament. Carbon pricing, Mineral and Resources Rent Tax and means testing private health cover to name a few. The economy is going great and we’re doing fine in Australia.

RyaN says:

09:58am | 20/02/12

@acotrel: Robert Mugabe says he is democratically elected also, Gillard and him have a lot in common.

Brodo says:

10:01am | 20/02/12

@Peter Lughead

Analog television is being turned off. Some elderly people do not have the resources to make the switch from analog to digital. Without digital television they are cut off from the most powerful (currently) source of media in existence. Are you suggesting we abandon these people and leave them cut off? And they would be. Especially in rural area which are harder to service.  Your $680 to $45 wholesale comparison is far too simplistic. You have been told what you want to hear and run with it.

Ben C says:

10:33am | 20/02/12

@ Brodo

Means testing of private health insurance - could you please explain why you believe the rebate was bad policy? Just interested to know what about it that you particularly object to.

ZaSaMa says:

10:44am | 20/02/12

@ Brodo.

“They priced carbon for starters. Call it a tax all you want…...” Thankyou we will because that’s exactly what it is.

Your defence of the indefensible in terms of the Australia Day fiasco tells us all we need to know. “Errors in judgement”

LMAO!!!!!!!!

Rusted on much?

Anubis says:

11:11am | 20/02/12

@ Brodo

Pricing Carbon - For what purpose? - Treasuries own estimates indicate that the price on carbon will produce NO reduction in the CO2 emission levels within Australia. The startiung price of $23 per tonne is excessive when compared to what Carbon trading around the world is currently paying. The compensation for lower income recipients was calculated at the price of $20 per tonne so will be insufficient right from the start, let alone when you take in to account the annual increases in the price with no subsequent increase in the compensation. The whole plan fails to stem emissions and fails as a wealth redistribution model (which is what it was all about anyhow). Every one will pay more for everything due to the compunding nature of the Carbon Price. Australian international competitiveness will be diminished, our industry will be crippled due to the excessive cost of power - industry is effective and competitive only if cheap power is available. The higher the inputs the less competitive the industry. As for alternative sources of power - nothing currently under consideration can provide base-load power, Until nuclear is considered this is a “pie in the sky” plan. Even the worlds largest manufacturer of Wind generation plants is scaling their production down and sacking staff - so all these new “Green Jobs” are pure fantasy as well.

“They are dysfunctional,“ - Well, Yes they are. Every scheme this Labor government has attempted has turned to shite. BER - rorted mercilessly by union builders and State Governments. Scholls receiving halls when they needed libraries or Labs, schools being told that in order to get the new building they need to demolish an existing building, shoddy construction, unfinished buildings etc.  Insulation scheme - responsible for deaths among shoddily trained installers (not necessarily the Governments fault) and houses burning down - but the end result is billions of dollars required to remedy the problems. Millions wasted on other failed schemes including Grocery Watch, Fuel Watch, Cash for Clunkers.

Dismantling an effective scheme that reduced the flow of illegal immigrants arriing by boat in order to score political points with no alternative policy ready. The lie that was “I now announce an East Timor solution” without even bothering to talk to the Timorese first, followed by Manus Island, then the abortive Malaysia Swap (Gillard as a lawyer should have seen the flaws in that one). Billions now being wasted on building and maintaining on-shore detention programs and ever increasing numbers of boat arrivals with NO policy to manage our borders.

“they are imposing new taxes on everyone,” The GST actually replaced a range of Sales Taxes at different rates and in the case of goods such as electronics (PC’s in particular) the prices came down. The GST was taken to an election as a Key policy prior to being implemented. The implimentation was supposed to also include the removal of a raft of State taxes as well but the then State Governments (Labor) refused to take their hands out of the pockets of people. The Carbon Tax will impact on everyone due to its compounding nature and the wealth redistribution compensation scheme was calculated on a lesser starting price. Evryone will pay if not directly through price increases then through the loss of jobs as a result of the impact on manufacturing and jobs.

“spending like there is no tomorrow (Australia’s largest Government debt - ever), “ The first stimulus was a required measure, the second stimulus was excessive. Please explain why, when during the first GFC the solution was to spend, spend and spend some more yet for the second GFC the policy is now to cut costs and services, force an artificial surplus (maybe) and rein in all spending - Which one of these approaches is wrong?

Continued in next post

Anubis says:

11:12am | 20/02/12

Response to @Brodo part2

“engaging in class warfare, “

You say “The only class warfare going on relates to the rich trying to stay rich and the rich are winning.” What utter crap. The Government is forcing those that contribute most to taxation revenue to contribute even more while compensating those that contribute little or nothing with higher and higher levels of welfare. As for the Health Care rebate - they didn’t go far enough - the whole thing should be scrapped. It is an industry subsidy for an industry that no longer needs subsidising.  The private health care rebate should be means tested. If you can afford private health care pay for it yourself. You do not need to be subsidised by those earning less money.

“race baiting for political gain, “ Yes the Australia Day events. Gillard’s staffers and union supporters did this thinking they would gain political points for their mistress. Failed disastrously as it showed that Julia had lost control of her own office.

“overseeing the increase on the cost of living to the point where even people who are “well off” are finding it difficult to even meet the household bills,” Major increases in the cost of all household bills with electricity rising by at least 10% on 1 January and due to rise again with the Carbon Price implementation - people unable to pay electricity and gas bills, retailing plummetting because there is NO discretionary spending left in household budgets. Australia does not need to be like this regardless of the GFC - Government policy is directly responsible for a lot of this.

Peter Lougheed says:

11:43am | 20/02/12

@Brodo (at 11:01am).  The issue is not about old people being left to listen to ABC Rural on a vacuum tube wireless (although I do have to ask when the human right to digital TV was enshrined in the Constitution).  It’s about the government’s competence to develop and deliver a program and – here’s the important part in the real world – to plan a budget and deliver the program within that budget.  This was one of those programs that was just begging out to be rorted and - shock, horror, surprise – the costs per unit are over double what the government budgeted.  Who would have ever suspected that this government would stuff it up?

I hate pies says:

02:10pm | 20/02/12

Brodo; regarding the BER…actually, I can’t be bothered explaining to you what was bad about it. You’re obviously so one-eyed that it’s akin to banging my head against the wall.

Steve Putnam says:

03:29pm | 20/02/12

@ Anubis “...the government (is) imposing new taxes…”

Howard Government tax take 25% of GDP.
Rudd/Gillard Government tax take 21.75% of GDP.

Makes a liar out of you mate. Simple as that.

Tator says:

08:36am | 21/02/12

Steve Putnam,
only reason for the reduction in tax to GDP ratio is that under the ALP, company tax has collapsed, not that the ALP is a lower taxing government.  Company tax receipts have collapsed from $64 billion in 07/08 to $56 billion in 10/11 without any cuts to the company tax rate. 
In addition GST revenue has collapsed as well as GST revenue has only grown by less than 1% per year which is contrary to GDP growth which averaged .47% per quarter since July 2008.

Tchom says:

11:28am | 20/02/12

@ JennyF

True, but I don’t think Abbott is a leader either. If I had to choose the lesser of all the evils, I’d probably say Malcolm Turnbull. He’s probably a more attractive prospect for moderate voters

Jason Smithurst says:

08:07am | 20/02/12

Agreed! I hope all the morons that voted out Howard because it was “time for a change” have long memorys next time they think about voting out a stable Liberal government.
Unfortunately they wont though.

I hate pies says:

02:12pm | 20/02/12

Yeah sorry about that, won’t happen again

MK says:

02:20pm | 20/02/12

Proposed Liberal budget would have ended in a Deficit anyway

Grow Up

Its called the Econonomy,

Autralia may be an island,
but funnily enough there’s almost a whole world out there
And Australai is just a small peice of flotsam flaoting in the world economy

Vivian says:

07:10am | 20/02/12

Look at The Telegraphs editorial today

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/fractured-folly-of-a-leadership-feud/story-e6frezz0-1226275148210

Sums up exactly what you are saying.

Anubis says:

08:23am | 20/02/12

But @TimB - It’s because we are all sexist - Bob Brown told us that - and really, he couldn’t be wrong could he?

SimonFromLakemba says:

08:35am | 20/02/12

Simon Benson/Gemma Jones have been beating it up for the last 1.5 years, anything can be found true when you stick with it for long enough. Had to laugh though when Vivian posts a link the a News Ltd ‘editorial’ below.

“And I’m sure that if you do a little digging, you’ll find that Tony Abbott asked them to do it, acting on secret orders from the Vatican, passed on via George Pell.”

Ask Erick, he can follow it up along with the ABC question.

“I know I’m right, because this is what I’ve been told constantly on this site by ALP supporters. And when have they ever been wrong?”

Lol come on mate, there are barely of us on here and we all know the conservatives on here are never wrong, even if they are they’ll change the wording or never admit it.

TimB says:

08:40am | 20/02/12

*Snicker* Yes I saw that. The Wilkie stuff especially is gold.

And yes, you’re quite right Anubis, I completely forgot about the sexism thing.

The deep loathing I feel for Gillard can only be explained by the fact that she is a woman. In a similar vein, I detest Rudd simply because he is a man.

I discriminate against anyone with a gender, like some sort of super sexist.  Bob Brown is safe though, because he’s an anti-human alien monster who has no gender.

TimB says:

09:36am | 20/02/12

No slight intended on you Simon. You’re one of the good ones .

But there are some ALP supporters on here who you truly do have to wonder if they live in the same world as the rest of us. It goes beyond mere difference of opinion & spills over into severe psychotic delusion.

Just look at James’s post down below. He STILL believes this is all imaginary. There comes a point when you cannot deny that which is as plain as day. Yet still they persist. It’s ludicrous.

SimonFromLakemba says:

11:53am | 20/02/12

@TimB

Yes, there will also be those people, whether it’s in the media or general plebs like us.

Gratuitous Adviser says:

07:50am | 20/02/12

Hypothetical?
- Result from this current kerfuffle is a number of disenchanted ALP parliamentarians resign / bi-election and Coalition wins seat/s.
- PM loses a vote in the House and therefore confidence.
- PM resigns and Abbott asked to form government by the GG as he has a majority in the House (but not the Senate because of the Greens).  Abbott and LNP Governemnt appointed.
- Abbott creates situation for double dissolution.
- Double dissolution threatens Greens
- “Dry” Conservative Government for a generation. 

Have I missed something??

Gee, that political move in June 2010 really worked, eh.

Richo says:

08:14am | 20/02/12

Bulldust!

The NSW Right run this bloody country and don’t you forget it or we’ll send someone around to saw your legs off.

Labor is UnAustralian says:

09:17am | 20/02/12

Richo, you could not be more right in your statement. Thugs would be too nice a term.

Gratuitous Adviser says:

07:27am | 20/02/12

Mahhrat
You touched on an area that I feel disadvantages Australia and that is the prevalence of the “Peter Principle” in Ministers because they can only be chosen for the parliamentary gene pool.  I like the American system where the President appoints his ministry from whatever source he feels will do the best job.  It is not uncommon in the US system for the same Secretary to be appointed by successive Presidents even though they are politically opposed.

SimonFromLakemba says:

08:42am | 20/02/12

Problem is when he sacks them where are the new people going to come from?

Not sure you can ‘sack’ MPs? don’t they just delegate them to some lowly portfolio and eventually retire?

Rudd had his shot and screwed it up, he tied himself to the climate change bandwagon and lost. If he used some logical perspective during his first term he would of been a 2 term PM minimum, instead we are where we are now.

Against the Man says:

02:13pm | 20/02/12

Labor is going to hold on. Might be their last chance at a federal level for the next 15 years if the party doesn’t implode

Number Cruncher says:

08:10am | 20/02/12

@ Rhubarb, infrastructure spending is the responsibility of the state governments.  Guess which party was in control of the states during Howard’s reign?  Where has all the money gone and what is there to show for it i wonder?

james says:

09:16am | 20/02/12

Federal roads are a federal responsibility, good to see howards lies still being peddled.

Rhubarb says:

10:21am | 20/02/12

Well there ya go, learn something new everyday. Thank you. But I still stand that they all need tossing.

stevem says:

09:27am | 20/02/12

It won’t happen. Labor is doomed at the next election. Even if the government started to perform miracles they would be routed, rather than annihilated. Shorten and Arbib both know this and would refuse nomination as the career of whoever leads Labor to the next election would be over. Both see themselves as long term politicians and potential leaders and neither will settle for 18 months in the sun.

Only somebody who intends leaving politics within the next 4 years would be interested in the job. This, of course, includes Rudd who sees himself in the UN after the October election.

Coop says:

04:19pm | 20/02/12

Won’t happen. The ALP are stuck.
Whoever goes up as leader next is going to be crucified. Knowing that, you’d put up a patsy or let the current patsy take the hit for the team. Then blame them for everything before putting up a relaive cleanskin and letting them clean house

Ryan says:

07:19pm | 20/02/12

@Coop

That’s why the Coalition elected Nelson, Turnbull and Abbott.

Gregg says:

08:17am | 20/02/12

@Goose, oh sorry, moose is it!
First off, the Labor party won in 2007 when Kevvy was leader but here in Australia we still vote for parties as much as the prominence or likeability of leaders may decide some votes.
The parliamentary parties choose their leaders and they are quite within their rights for parliamentary members to review a leaders performance and replace them, that being what happened to Rudd and may well now happen to Julia.
You may not like the approach but that is what can happen and it is totally legal and from a partys point of view perfectly moral, their sole aim to be re-elected as many times as possible.
Fortunately for Australia, the Labor party have been shooting off not just their mouths but many feet and are just hobbling along like zombies.

TimR says:

08:21am | 20/02/12

A valid comment, if there hadn’t been an election since Kev was dumped.

KimL says:

08:11am | 20/02/12

I feel the same Yanni, I won’t vote for Labor because of the Rudd assassination as PM and Labor MP’s calling him a physchopath because he wants his old job back has sealed the deal for me. If they feel that way then they are negligent having him represent us as Foreign Minister. Rudd has been slandered by these people and no one would blame him if he just tossed in the towel and quit. Like you I don’t like Abbott and people like us have no choice at all

Bazza says:

08:23am | 20/02/12

Yanni, that’s a Greek name is it not. We should all take your advise shouldn’t we.

Anubis says:

08:29am | 20/02/12

So Yanni you would like to see a continuation of the Labor Party sideshow then rather than put the Liberals in again because they are led by someone who was a member of one of the most stable (although not the most effective) Governments in Australia’s history. I assume then that you will vote for Labor regardless of who leads them - true rusted on supporter there.

Steveh says:

08:38am | 20/02/12

Doesn’t matter yanni. There are few more idiots like u. U pick personality over policy.

Rose says:

08:50am | 20/02/12

Fair call, I definitely understand where you are coming from. I would only suggest that if you are both planning on voting Independents that you very carefully monitor where your preferences are going. It’s entirely likely that if you don’t take control of your vote you will end up voting for your least preferred candidate.

Gratuitous Adviser says:

09:05am | 20/02/12

Bazza, Bazza, Bazza
You will have to lift your comment quality or I’m thinking uneducated yobbo.  You know, stereotypical Abbott supporter.

Dash says:

09:16am | 20/02/12

I think this is what’s wrong with the whole leadership argument.

Vote for the party, not the leader! The ALP are an excellent example, they have failed us with Rudd and now failed us with Gillard. No matter how many times they change the leader, it’s still the same old Labor party.

You need to vote for the political ideology. If you believe that people should be able to educate themselves, work hard and be successful without being punished for it, vote LNP.

If you have a tall poppy syndrome, belive in a socialist ideology, are happy for the country to be run by the minority union movement and want successful peoples money to be redictributed to dope smoking lay-a-bouts, vote ALP.

Martin says:

11:41am | 20/02/12

@Gratuitous Bullshitter. Hahhahahaha, I’ll let you in on a little secret, the Labor party has ALWAYS been the party for the the yobbo’s of Australia and always will be.

Good to see you count yourself amongst them.

Apathy Rules says:

01:01pm | 20/02/12

@ Dash - How much has your lifestyle changed since Howard was our PM? I’m guessing not much. Mine certainly hasn’t, interest rates go up, they come down, income tax hasn’t changed, it doesn’t matter who’s in power, they’re all tarred with the same brush. It’s OK for you to say “vote on political ideology” but when there is hardly any difference between the major parties, why bother?

Therefore Yanni makes a valid point, the leader of any party is important, if swinging voters walk into an election booth and haven’t decided on whom to vote for, then surely that’s where leadership personalities come to the fore.

Personally, I couldn’t give a damn who’s in power, but when it comes to Tony Abbott, well that’s another matter, like Yanni said, I couldn’t bring myself to vote for the LNP while he’s their leader, I apply the same principal to the ALP, I won’t vote for them while Julia Gillard is their leader. For me, it comes down to voting for independents and giving preferences in order of the least liked leader at the time.

Pete says:

01:48pm | 20/02/12

Yanni and others, what exactly is it about Abbott that you dont like? Is it because he is a catholic? Is it because he gives his spare time to a SLSC or to the bush fire brigade or helping out in remote indigenous communities? Maybe because he said bullshit to Roxon after she carried on and on after he apologised for being late. Or because he was a bit rude to bernie Bampton when Bampton tried to pull a political stunt at the urging of labor. I just dont understand.

The one thing that labor are doing well, very well, is to deride Tony Abbott. The barrage of hate directed at Abbott is astounding.

Apathy Rules says:

03:37pm | 20/02/12

@ Pete - “what exactly is it about Abbott that you don’t like?”

Shit, where does one start. He is a pathological liar, he can’t be trusted, he flip-flops on issues depending whom his audience is at the time (Goebbels comes to mind, the master of propaganda), he has the personality of a rock and he is so full of himself that you can see it in the way he walks and talks, that will do for starters, but sadly comments on The Punch are restricted to 5000 characters.

I couldn’t give a FF about his religion as long as he keeps it to himself; any hate directed at Abbott is fully deserved.

Pete says:

04:55pm | 20/02/12

Apathy Rules: Give me some examples of him being a “pathological liar”. I can give you 1/2 a dozen from Gillard but I wpould love to hear your examples of Abbott lying. Just because you and labor say so doesnt make it true.

His political principles seem steady and consistant. He moved against the Carbon tax after a grass roots revolt from the party. He moved on policy rather than politics. The same cannot be said with Labor.

And anyone who knows or has met Tony Abbott say what a nice affable fellow he is, even Bob hawke said the same before he attacked him.

So the three points you have made about Abbott are bullshit. It shows you have no real understanding of either politics or Abbott and are filled with hate for no reason.

Has anyone else noticed how the left hate people ? Tony Abbott,John Howard, Peter Costello, Kevin Rudd. Hate seems to consume them. The right hate the actions and the policy but they dont have the same level of venom for the person.

I put it down to envy. As Margaret Thatcher said ‘its always better where the tories are”

Martin says:

07:26pm | 20/02/12

@Pete

Thanks for the best laugh in ages.

“Has anyone else noticed how the left hate people ? Tony Abbott,John Howard, Peter Costello, Kevin Rudd. Hate seems to consume them. The right hate the actions and the policy but they dont have the same level of venom for the person.”

You’ve obviously never read any of their comments here about the Prime Minister.

acotrel says:

08:59am | 20/02/12

@Kelvin
What would the back shirt LNP fools know about it ?

PW says:

10:06am | 20/02/12

Brenda: “When you have a working couple doing 7 days a week, 14-15 hours a day being taxed as “rich” by a highly paid incompetent failure such as Gillard, all because these jobs-providing workers generate extra income from the fruits of their hard labour, you have a new discontented demographic that feels political warfare is deliberately being waged on the incentive to succeed and prosper.”

14-15 hours a day, 7 days a week, huh. One must wonder how you find time to post here. It seems your point here, Brenda, is that you don’t think high income earners should be taxed accordingly. My suggestion to you is that you immediately relocate to Greece.

Stiffy says:

01:28pm | 20/02/12

Well they would’t have a cold beer would they. Lucky Foster, his 67% profit increase will be even bigger. More Moee please waiter.

Diamantina Dick says:

09:51am | 20/02/12

Well said Stephen, when people get into the ballot box they need to think with what is between their ears, not what is between their legs.

Prior to 2007 this country was run by a quality Government. The reasons I have heard for voting to change them were pathetic and juvenile then and become more and more risible every day.

You did not need a PhD to figure Rudd was not a ‘fiscal conservative’ and would revert to type once elected. The ‘Sunrise Election’ was biggest exercise in dumbing down the electorate I have ever seen with questions like ‘‘who would you turn gay for?”  Rudd is at best a sociopath and the organisation that elected him as leader was clearly morally bankrupt then and has been proven now. Julia on the other hand, God love her (unrequited), is an ordinary person is every possible way, and this country deserves better than an ordinary person.

james says:

11:09am | 20/02/12

Prior to 2007 this country was run by a quality Government.

I just vomited up my lunch.

Stephen T says:

12:36pm | 20/02/12

Sadly I was one of those people; I voted Labor more because I detested John Howard for personal reasons not because I particularly disliked the Liberals.  If Howard had done the right thing and made way for Costello I would have voted Liberal, looking at what we have now I personally see very little difference between the behavioural characteristics of Rudd and Howard.  I actually feel sorry for Gillard what ever happens she is just grist for the mill she will be remembered as a deluded liar who was never really up to the job, not a nice legacy for anyone.

the magpie says:

09:17am | 20/02/12

Post of the year!

subotic says:

09:38am | 20/02/12

Looking in the mirror right now going “Aaaarrrrrr….” in preparation for the take-over by The Pirate Party.

stevem says:

10:03am | 20/02/12

I have no desire to be a politician. That is clearly the problem. That is everybody’s choice - they have to vote for one party or another or an Independent (and look how that turned out).

Without standing ourselves there is no alternative.

Daf says:

10:09am | 20/02/12

Very well said!

St. Michael says:

10:56am | 20/02/12

Well, at least he seems to be experienced in screwing Australians.

Labor is UnAustralian says:

08:29am | 20/02/12

Kev will quit, CT will be found guilty, we get a new government!

Anthony says:

08:23am | 20/02/12

Yes we got from four corners and Michelle Gratan

TimB says:

08:32am | 20/02/12

LOL.

Have a chat to Andrew Wilkie. Or Darren Cheeseman. Or Steve Gibbons.

The biggest mystery in life is how ALP muppets like James manage to feed and dress themselves of a morning. Because only people with severe mental deficiencies can still claim this is a media beat-up in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Sizzle Chest says:

10:22am | 20/02/12

Oh I see. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING’S HAPPENING EVERYBODY ! James says so ! James knows all !!!!
Phew…thanks James !

ZaSaMa says:

10:56am | 20/02/12

Well golly gee James. If you say that’s the case then it must be so. I’ll just pay no attention to all those ALP front and backbenchers declaring their allegiances one way or the other for absolutely no good reason. Thank god you were here to set us all straight.

Dash says:

09:22am | 20/02/12

You can polish the ALP turd as much as you like, but it’s still a turd no matter who’s the leader!

mike says:

01:05pm | 20/02/12

ha ha ha fixes up abbott does she??your beloved julia tells lies,refuses to answer questions and uses smoke and mirrors to hide her incompetant leadership ,just watch her in question time and its obvious she fears tony and for good reason,please try to see reality acotrel ,i feel embarrassed for you

B. Wildered says:

06:21pm | 20/02/12

@acotrel, are you a paid troll?.....you make out like you are some “know all” but me thinks you are no better than the journos that write this trash to get you excited. Just noticed you have an opinion on everything, got a real job?

PW says:

10:16am | 20/02/12

It’s not balls he lacks, it’s numbers. He’s a dozen or so short. It’s very difficult indeed to imagine where that dozen will come from in the forseeable future. Thus all this zamounts to nothing more or less than conservative media looking after their goons.

Sinbad Dilly says:

11:14am | 20/02/12

If he had balls he would throw down a challenge and if he loses quit the party and spill every dirty little ALP secret from here to eternity! Rudd won’t do it because he is scared.

PW says:

11:30am | 20/02/12

You’re right in a way. Your scenario would hand over Government to the Libs, which is no doubt wishful thinking on your part, but not at all likely to happen. Rudd is scared of handing over Government to Abbott without the latter having to earn it. You are just going to have to wait another 18 months, champ.

ZaSaMa says:

11:19am | 20/02/12

She had no choice but to make him Foreign Minister Alex. He had her by the proverbial short and curlies, and she’d have been lucky to win a seat in Qld without his support. Even if she wins a spill and demotes him to the backbench he still has her over a barrel as he can just resign from parliament and force a by-election which they’d get destroyed in. The only thing that surpasses his vindictiveness is his colossal ego and thirst for power and adulation. He is a narcissistic egomaniac which may in a perverse way help her, as he may need to stay on to fulfil his UN ambition.

john says:

08:59am | 20/02/12

@Kosta
“Personally I am loving it” {even spell checked it for you}

I’ve got the popcorn out in front of the TV, this fight is amazing, its number 1 in the google search its pushed Iran and other critical global stories aside.

I haven’t been this intrigued since Golf Whitlam got pushed aside by that conspiring Kerr & Fraser 1975.

Joel says:

11:47am | 20/02/12

@ john
“I haven’t been this intrigued since Gough Whitlam got pushed aside by that conspiring Kerr & Fraser 1975.” (spell checked it for you).

I don’t have anything to say, just wanted to point out your bad spelling.

john says:

12:07pm | 20/02/12

@Joel “I don’t have anything to say, just wanted to point out your bad spelling.”

Ta, I can’t believe I did that.

guarda says:

10:04am | 20/02/12

Of course the government is getting on with the job of governing in an effective and stable manner. Haven’t you noticed the legislation going through? Please try to pay attention.

The media is working itself up into a frenzy trying to create news instead of reporting it.

Matt says:

10:32am | 20/02/12

This is stability??

Also, the legislation being passed isn’t good legislation.

I hate pies says:

10:48am | 20/02/12

Of course they are; legislation has passed through both houses. Legislation = good governance, don’t you know that? What that legislation contains is irrelevant.

Weary says:

12:13pm | 20/02/12

Guarda.  Whilst we appreciate someone teaching you the word attention, I suggest you buy a dictionary, look it up and learn to use it in an appropriate context.
Unless of course you really don’t think this leadership issue is happenning, in which case you can’t be helped and even speaking ot you is a waste of time.  Go buy that dictionary.

PW says:

02:05pm | 20/02/12

“the legislation being passed isn’t good legislation”

It seems the majority in both houses of parliament don’t agree with you, therefore your opinion is not worth a pinch of poop.

john says:

09:21am | 20/02/12

We got to see the real Tony when it was reported that he’d sell his arse to be PM.  - shit happens.

I don’t think he is much better than the labor rabble.

Also QLD labor looks like it will fall, most MP’s are retiring {like rats abandoning ship before it sinks}

Silence is golden, if the liberals don’t ask anything in question time the current government will implode, because the current government is also its own opposition.

Engaging the government during question time means they still give the current government some credibility by coming down to their level.

Its really a choice of which is the better of the worst choice.

This country cannot go on governing with Rudd as foreign minister the utube video has damaged our credibility overseas. rudd cannot be PM either,.

Julia has to show leadership and fire him or call an election.

John H says:

11:31am | 20/02/12

Are you serious? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha etc, etc, till I collapse and die laughing.  At least I’ll be spared the ignominity and disaster that a NO Coalition let by Phoney Tony will visit upon this country.
They say we get the governments we deserve.  God! Let’s hope that we are not so stupid, facile and self-serving that we end up with Phoney Tony and his bunch. But then again. . . . . . . !

razor says:

09:24am | 20/02/12

Abbott is ignorant, he’s arrogant, he’s stupid in all ways but one: he’s immensly shrewd about the Oz people. Particularly the less intelligent half of Australia.
They’re very happy with him, in that,they realise how stupid he is, and they say to themselves:
‘Wonderful… if that stupid guy can be opposition leader …
then so can I’

Anthony says:

10:06am | 20/02/12

Being all knowing and so correct all the time in expelling ones virtues should make you a greens candidate and yes you will be in opposition a longtime.

RoamingRover says:

11:27am | 20/02/12

Put a set of whiskers on Crean and you have the big rat he is. I listened to that interview and here is a message for you Simple Simon, without us Labor Voters you have not got enough of a team to play a game of tennis!! Julia Gillard is a new Immigrant, she was not born in Australia, she is shacked up with a hairdresser named Tim, it sounds like a bad comedy and it is

Ben C says:

01:25pm | 20/02/12

@ RoamingRover

“it sounds like a bad comedy and it is”

It was called At Home With Julia.

St. Michael says:

02:00pm | 20/02/12

“Julia Gillard is a new Immigrant, she was not born in Australia”

Yeah, because five year olds really get to choose what country they go to.  Grow up for Christ’s sake.

Knemon says:

09:52am | 20/02/12

Regardless of whether we’re suckers or not…A leadership spill will put this to rest, once and for all…then the media can concentrate on real matters of importance, like policy Etc. Yes, I’m a dreamer.

I’m still tipping a leadership spill within the LNP…Turnbull is currently treading water and waiting for his moment to pounce.

Matt says:

01:08pm | 20/02/12

All smoke, no fire eh?

Must be hard to get a feed of bacon and eggs where you are, with all those flying pigs.

john says:

09:39am | 20/02/12

nice story nossy, but that ship sailed, the talk is on to replace both of them or an election.

Keep up sweetheart, have a coffee, wake up alittle.

Ron e says:

09:42am | 20/02/12

C’mon nossy, we all know you: a) don’t get far enough away from a computer to leave the house, much less go for a run, and b) don’t have any friends.

Gregg says:

11:22am | 20/02/12

It’s hard to get lost on the beach ain’t it Nossy but then somewhere, somehow, sometime you could handle it.
I hear Julia is looking at some Unisex undie modelling and Kev likes going doorknocking so much he is up for selling dictionaries.

What I find most disappointing though is that Jules has picked up some of your traits for when she was coming on with ” Bring it On ” it was her own bench she should have been addressing so another lost cause it would seem.

You do no that NO reversed is ON do you and not only will Tony have his day made, he’ll be Dr ON the money, not that Labor has left much in the coffers.

R U OK ? says:

11:25am | 20/02/12

Oh dear, I could always see that this person wasn’t quite right mentally, but pretending to have an imaginary friend is really quite sad.
Nossy, it’s not sweet, you know this “Gav” doesn’t exist, we know he doesn’t exist- please seek professional help.

luke09 says:

11:33am | 20/02/12

nossy, it has just occurred to me that your nickname, ‘nossy’ is short for nonsense. Very clever of you to post under that alias.

john says:

11:54am | 20/02/12

@R U OK ?  “but pretending to have an imaginary friend is really quite sad.”
@ Ron e “b) don’t have any friends.”

aawww, we already knew that, why publicly humiliate poor nossy, we all enjoy and value his comments for better or worse.

We at the PUNCH are friends online for you nossy hang in there.

BTW your mate Kevin is swearing again, has he put a dollar in the swear jar for you?

Weary says:

12:08pm | 20/02/12

Awwww Nossy… Just becase you vote for people who are constantly making stuff up doesn’t mean you should follow suit and start telling far fetched tales of your own.  You don’t have a friend.  You weren’t even at the beach - you just have your head buried in the sand.
But I’m with you, I hope Rudd comes back.  Nothing could possibly guarantee the liberal party take power (for at LEAST two elections) than the laughable return of Rudd and the ensuing collapse broken party he would be pretending to lead…  Oh how sweet it is indeed!
PS - Britney Spears, Kim Kardashian and Paris Hilton all get rock-star receptions like Kevin Rudd - and they all get them from exactly the same group of people.  I’m glad you’re proud to be one of them.

Nice dream says:

12:59pm | 20/02/12

Nossy that slap from your mum to wake you out of the dream must have been a good one!!! Kevin07 has about as much chance of taking over as you have. Even if it did happen, it would be good for a laugh are some of the good stories you have.
But chin up hopefully you can win the game of handball after maths class

Esteban says:

01:23pm | 20/02/12

I doubt Gillard can win the next election.

There is a chnace that Rudd could win but the timing has to be perfect. If Rudd took over 3 or 4 months out from the election Rudd could possibly ride the honeymoon period to an electoral victory.

Why not change leader just before an election? It worked fine in 2010 why can’t it work again?

Do I think it will happen. No but horse still turn up to have a go at Black caviar don’t they Nossy. As a liberal supporter I am not worried unlike your “friend” Gavascon.

Where I disagree with nossy is the importance of the coalition’s leader in this process. The ALP is so bad that it does not matter what the coalition does it will simply be an imperative of getting rid of a bad Govt and the coalition just has to turn up with any leader to win.

Esteban says:

12:34pm | 20/02/12

That is exactly what I thought when i saw it ibast.

He is a devious sod. imagine what he can cook up if he is on the back bench with lots of time on his hands!

Suckers says:

10:54am | 20/02/12

This is media-driven. If you weren’t seeing RUDD LEADERSHIP CHALLENGE!!! stories EVERY DAY in the media, you wouldn’t have these idiot politicians giving the media fuel for the fire they created. It’s been a tactic by the Libs from the get-go to foment dissension and supported by the conservative Australian media, you’re now seeing their drama be forced into reality. This is how our media and our naysaying opposition has worked to bring everything to a halt and focus on drama, rather than engage in constructive actions. Nice work conservatives!

Martin says:

11:23am | 20/02/12

@suckers. Now I have heard it all, “it’s the opposition and the media”. LMAO you deluded fool. It’s the massive ego’s in the Labor party more like it.
Darren Cheesemman didn’t say “Gillard has to go”? Simon Crean didn’t do an interview asking KRudd’s mob to “bring it on”? Anna Bligh didn’t say “get this fixed”?

Kindly wake up to yourself and stop talking garbage.

john says:

12:19pm | 20/02/12

@Suckers “these idiot politicians giving the media fuel for the fire they created”

That’s how news is created in a free democracy with free speech. Its a question of whether it has traction. On this occasion it has.

“This is how our media and our naysaying opposition has worked “

Its the oppositions job to continually test the government.  Absolutely if the party in power wants taxes and more taxes and spends like no tomorrow, I expect an opposition to say NO. I expect that they will want to destabilise the government. You can’t imagine labor NOT expecting it can you?

Ron e says:

10:14am | 20/02/12

Tragedy for whom?
For you, or the Labor party and it’s conga-line of suckholes (Thanks PJK)?
What’s truly tragic is that there are actually people still out there that support this mob.
Shameful!

Bob Smith says:

11:35am | 20/02/12

The tragedy is for Australia. Our economy is the envy of the world. Employment figures are an all time best. To give this over to Abbott (who had publicly confessed his lack of interest in economics), Sloppy Joe (who has already botched several sets of budgetary forecasts and figures),  and co, and their peculiar brand of economic illiteracy and populist nonsense is indeed a tragedy. Still, I’m sure the undoubted windfall for the billionaires that back them will be welcome.

TH says:

11:41am | 20/02/12

Of course Labor supporters would hope otherwise,but the next election will be about Labor/Liberal, not Gillard/Abbott.

ZaSaMa says:

11:44am | 20/02/12

Excuse me while I clean up my computer. I just spat my coffee all over it.

Bob Smith says:

12:06pm | 20/02/12

Don’t be silly!
Much better to have factionally-aligned, career politicians who’ve barely had a real job (let alone several highly successful ones)  and don’t have any burdensome principles they wouldn’t swap for power, or any vision beyond gaining power.

Plain Jane says:

02:36pm | 20/02/12

Yeah. Right.

Godwin Grech with a morality transplant.

john says:

10:20am | 20/02/12

@iansand “Is that the sword of Damocles hanging above Gillard’s head? “

Not yet.  Wilke & the other independents won’t risk losing their seats, wilke will come back into the fold. Even if there is a by-election and Rudd looses his seat.

Daf says:

11:05am | 20/02/12

Disenchanted - couldn’t agree more (see my post at 10.43 please).  Malcolm Turnbull is a decent and intelligent man with INTEGRITY.

Esteban says:

12:25pm | 20/02/12

Disenchanted. You are not voting ALP at the next election but you wont be voting LNP under Abbott.

You can give your primary vote to greens or independant but who will you preference?

subotic says:

10:29am | 20/02/12

Australian politics?

Or Punch commentors?

john says:

11:42am | 20/02/12

@Harry of Nowra

It’s like watching a bunch of seagulls in a KFC car park fighting over the last rotten chip.

KFC on outbound lanes just before the west gate bridge comes to mind. Perhaps we could give some of those regular seagulls there name tags!

PM salary is worth fighting for, as for PUNCHERS we’ll fight over less than a soggy chip, its a fight over who will be the Alpha gull. 

Erik won it when he even got his own story.

Number Cruncher says:

11:45am | 20/02/12

Alternative scenario:
-  Leadership spill next week.  Rudd will win
-  Power sharing with Greens to end.  Governemnt will remain in power for a couple of weels (tops) c/o back-room deals (again)
-  Fair Work release findings from investigation.  Craig Thomson forced to resign, no confidence motion passed and parliament dissolved. 
-  Abbott wins government in landslide victory.  Labor effectively annhilated for a whole generation (again)
-  Abbott forces double dissolution in attempt to repeal carbon tax.  Another landslide victory.  Labor heads in the direction of the democrats

Dan says:

12:25pm | 20/02/12

Number Cruncher,

No matter how much you may wish it, it’ll never play out that way. Sorry!

- If Fair Work finds potential breaches, they’ll go to the DPP. It’ll then drag on there and in court for months, if not years. There will be no speedy resolution.

- Even if Craig Thomson resigns, a motion of no confidence will never pass. Oakeshott and Windsor will always vote for the Govt, and Wilkie and Bandt won’t let it fail.

- Abbott probably would win in a “landslide”, but annihilation is a relative term. Take the recent NSW election as a guidepoint of the worst a major party can possibly perform. They’ve still got 20 odd seats.

Like it or not, there will always be a Labor Party. Sorry!

Esteban says:

12:03pm | 20/02/12

Keep an open mind and don’t give up trying to figure it out cobblers.

Jl says:

11:04am | 20/02/12

He was not popular, he was polling really badly just prior to an election. He admitted that he would lose the election.  Gillard is better at the job according to all credible sources. Rudd himself admits he was poor in the role (read the article). Why would you want a bad tempered poor performer who is dysfunctional in the top job? Weird.

Gregg says:

11:05am | 20/02/12

So wrecker,
Were you swinging the demo ball as you typed this or did someone feed you something to do a cut and paste with?

Gregg says:

11:08am | 20/02/12

@Dennis
And the winner is RED WRECKER or HAVOC!
FMD!

PW says:

11:42am | 20/02/12

The rise of the Greens came after the demise of the Democrats. The rise of the Democrats came after the demise of the DLP. There has been a strong third political party in Australia for the best part of the last 60 years.

Gregg says:

03:41pm | 20/02/12

And then there’s the Nationals and chuck in a few independents as well.
By contrast with the current situation, the LNP has done pretty well for the country when they have been in government.

Knemon says:

01:21pm | 20/02/12

Good call razor.

Nigel Cockburn says:

03:54pm | 20/02/12

Hes dead Richard. He drank himself to death after realising he had bypassed democary on his way to getting his hands on plenty of free grog. Nuff said?

Esteban says:

12:40pm | 20/02/12

The GG does not have the power (thank goodness) to dissolve parliament based on competance alone. There must be a successful no confidence vote, dismissal due to illegality, bi election or something like that.

As appealing as it is we actually do not want the GG with the power to randomly dismiss.

Bob Smith says:

02:35pm | 20/02/12

I doubt that Labor will win the next election. However I agree with you that the average voter is criminally misinformed.

We survived the GFC in better condition than any other advanced economy. Our economy is the envy of the world. We have the best employment figures ever. We have low interest rates and low government debt and low taxes (OECD figures). All part of the Labor government’s ‘bungling’.

And, opposed to this, we have the financial ‘team’ of: Abbott, with a self-professed lack of interest in economics, Sloppy Joe Hockey responsible for the Libs budget costings fiasco and several basic financial bungles since, and poor Andrew Robb struck down with depression (though, if that were my financial team, I would be depressed as well).

With such a great financial record you would indeed have to be stupid to vote for the above stooges.

Against the Man says:

03:32pm | 20/02/12

If Wilkie thought that about Labor he should very well be subjected to drug testing.

Stephen T says:

02:20pm | 20/02/12

@ razor: My but that is a bitter, ill informed and spite filled rant, what has Tony Abbott done to earn such hate.  I admit there are few Politicians that I despise mostly for sound personal reasons but Tony Abbott isn’t one of them, to my mind he is probably amongst the better ones.  He is also amongst the better educated ones if you look at his academic qualifications: B.Ec and LL.B from Sydney Uni. then a Rhodes Scholarship to Oxford for his M.A.  What are your credentials?

Louise says:

02:22pm | 20/02/12

Relevance?

Esteban says:

02:41pm | 20/02/12

razor, I will simplify it for you. It is a 2 horse race. One horse has fallen and can’t get back up. The other horse does not have to be black Caviar to win.

Abbott just has to be on his feet at the next election and he wins.

You would be better served trying to find something you like about him because he is your next PM.

john says:

02:54pm | 20/02/12

@Stephen T
” if you look at his academic qualifications: B.Ec and LL.B from Sydney Uni. then a Rhodes Scholarship to Oxford for his M.A”

Oh wow look how smart he is razor, it just makes it official -an accredited nutter. 

Might as well be used folded toilet paper, framed.

RyaN says:

02:59pm | 20/02/12

@razor: Speaking of ignorance: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/tony-abbott-knows-he-is-landing-the-blows/story-e6frezz0-1226236795196

I particularly like the part where it makes you and your Dr NO propaganda look totally moronic.

“So far in this parliament, the Abbott-led opposition has only voted against 13 per cent of the government’s legislative proposals. “Dr No” has actually been “Dr Yes” 87 per cent of the time.”

Rick of the Dustbowl says:

03:30pm | 20/02/12

@ Estaban how can Abbott be on his feet when he always has one foot in his mouth?

Stephen T says:

04:43pm | 20/02/12

@ John: Nutter? such a way with words John.  Though it is what I come to expect from those who become to attached to their own opinion, does it help you to feel better about yourself that you can use derogatory names and smart comments as opposed to objective argument and reasoned debate.  Vilification is the preferred tactic of those with out the merit of an argument.

john says:

07:23pm | 20/02/12

@ Stephen T “@ John: Nutter? such a way with words John”

I was being polite. You know the old saying if the shoe fits…...

I’m being kind when Tony imposes his beliefs on others ~1.2 million Australians giving no hope to these people for any social progress.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_gay_people_are_there_in_Australia

I’m being kind when even out of context he chooses words like shit happens in a war zone, when there is clear death and destruction.
Its offensive to the whole ANZAC movement, past, present & future.

His behaviour & demeanour whilst health minister during Howard years was reprehensible.

Your beloved Rhodes scholar - he is not. Not even in the slightest. Perhaps on paper.

You get a better person from a high school drop-out.

Think before you play your moral card Mr. Stephen T. What kind of person do you think, as reported would “sell his arse to become PM?”

Its bad enough we have people like Julia & Kevin, what a joke this person is presented as an alternative to lead Australia.

Stephen T says:

08:13pm | 20/02/12

@ John: I don’t really know John, I was harsh thank you for your considered reply.  I do not contend that he is perfect, just undeserving of the vilification directed his way on a constant basis, just as Rudd and Gillard do not deserve to be vilified, I may not respect the person, I may despise the person but I see no reason to go to the extremes found in the forums.  Rudd, Gillard and Abbott have qualities as well as faults, to argue otherwise is fundamentally wrong, they have all done stupid things and we collectively have let them get away with it, in reality it is our bad habits that created the problem, we can’t change them until we change ourselves.  Cheers

Anubis says:

02:55pm | 20/02/12

As long as they had Craig Thomson flashing the credit card to pay for it

john says:

09:05pm | 20/02/12

@Anubis “As long as they had Craig Thomson flashing the credit card to pay for it “

LOL, Labor are paying for it now voluntarily no credit either, and it appears we have Arbib to thank for that, in the hope it will all go away and the affair will die out.

I’m only wondering if they can ’ rip ‘Julia apart.  Craig Thompson affair is pulling her leg, Abbott is pulling the other leg, Rudd is pulling her hair, Wilkie is pulling her arm. The looming deficit reaper is knocking on the door & voters want her head for lying. You can see the strain in her press conferences now.

The PM’s office has forsaken its credibility to harbour an MP to buy time with back room deals to hold onto power, Tenterhooks much?

Good example of how to run a country.

Isn’t that called corruption when using money to harbour an MP who is being investigated? Don’t people go to jail for this sort of thing anymore?

A deck of cards, that will end in tears.

~$1m to investigate, plus the brothel shops in surry hills.

http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/08/19/labor-mp-in-prostitute-scandal/

sic[As Andrew Clennell reports in The Daily Telegraph: “The ALP bailout of Craig Thomson could be more than $150,000?—?and federal minister Mark Arbib is understood to have brokered the deal between Prime Minister Julia Gillard’s office and NSW Labor

Labor’s been quietly covering the costs because if Thomson is declared bankrupt, he is therefore unfit for office and an election forced on a embattled minority Gillard government.]sic

nossy says:

03:36pm | 20/02/12

@Against the Man   hahaahha who won “todays” election ATM - jebus another day and no Tones as PM - Ohhhh how sweet it is!!

Against the Man says:

05:04pm | 20/02/12

All alone nossy? All your friends in hiding?

Say hi to Seano/John A Neve and Unionist for me at the medication rounds.

Reg Funnell says:

03:12pm | 20/02/12

They are saying what have been saying all along - we hate the Nationals so much we will never go their way. Simple jg. They are and shall remain in Labors camp.

Against the Man says:

03:29pm | 20/02/12

Oakeshott and Windsor have the ALP plague as well and sadly will end up paying a huge price for taking Gillard’s side!

Also noticed some really angry comments against them the last few days so I’m guessing they must be at some level of chaos within themselves if they have a conscience.

RW says:

03:45pm | 20/02/12

Oakshots writing his 23 minute departure speach and Windsor is in the process of being ran out of town as a puppet traitor!!.......but hes still saying Ronald Macdonald is doing a good job….

Sean says:

03:58pm | 20/02/12

@AtM

The Noalition and their supporters have been abusing and insulting the Independents ever since Abbott couldn’t convince them to side with him, constantly confirming for them that they’ve made the right decision.

Against the Man says:

05:01pm | 20/02/12

Sean what you mean is the MAJORITY of Australians don’t like the Independents

Sean says:

07:35pm | 20/02/12

@AtM

No. What I mean is that the Noalition and their supporters have been abusing and insulting the Independents ever since Abbott couldn’t convince them to side with him, constantly confirming for them that they’ve made the right decision.

Against the Man says:

08:02pm | 20/02/12

Sean, I’m not abusing you now but if you can’t see that the independents sold out this country to Labor well there is no way to wake you up to face reality.

If I’m wrong the independents will be elected back to their seats by their electorate with a record win. The reality is that they will take the money and shame and run.

Sean says:

09:08am | 21/02/12

@AtM

You can abuse me all you like; I couldn’t care less. In fact, coming from you, it’s a compliment.

It’s the abuse and insults to the Independents that’s your problem.

You constantly confirm for them that they’ve made the right decision.

RyaN says:

03:28pm | 20/02/12

You mean worse than the current Labor government has?
I mean what is the current debt?
What is the highest debt this country has ever shouldered?
What was the debt when they came to power?

Oh lookie, don’t look at the total and stark raving incompetence of the Labor party, oh no lookie over there it must be Abbotts fault.

You lot are pathetic.

Bob Smith says:

04:30pm | 20/02/12

You are joking aren’t you?

Australia has one of, if not the very, lowest level of public debt in the developed world! Estimated at about 20% of GDP by IMF in 2010.

And, for that incredibly low level of public debt, we survived the GFC, which has devastated most of the developed world, in the very best condition. Money well spent I would say.

nossy says:

04:39pm | 20/02/12

@Bob Smith ignore poor old RyaN Bob - he has a chip on his shoulder about the size of a Tasmanian Oak!  hahhaha I think he sucks lemons for brekky!

RyaN says:

11:07am | 21/02/12

@Bob Smith: Answer the questions then!

What is the current debt?
What is the highest debt this country has ever shouldered?
What was the debt when Labor came to power?

RyaN says:

11:08am | 21/02/12

@nossy: Pwaar nossy, that was close, you almost got me.

PW says:

04:48pm | 20/02/12

List (not exhaustive) of former PM’s who reputedly had extramarital affairs:

Hawke, McMahon, Gorton, Holt, Menzies, Chifley.

But they were all male, of course.

stevem says:

04:12pm | 20/02/12

Win by the smallest of margins? They won less seats than the LNP at the last election and only just pulled off the victory. Are you suggesting the next election could be even closer?

Bob Smith says:

04:17pm | 20/02/12

mmm…Tony Abbott is no John Hewson. Hewson was a vitally interested economist. Abbott has a self-professed lack of interest in economics, so much so that Costello is on record as saying that, in any govt. led by him, he wouldn’t consider Abbott as a deputy because of his alarming disinterest in economics. That would barely be tolerable (especially for a Libs leader! Imagine Howard saying he wasn’t interested in economics) if a leader had a sound financial backup team…but with Sloppy Joe and a depressed Andrew Robb carrying the can…

There is something deeply disturbing and more than a little strange about Abbott with his constant macho stunts and attempts to prove himself as a ‘tough’ man…he boxes, does triathlons, fires every gun he can get his hands on, lives in fluro vests and helmets, talks tough (‘sh*t happens’, ‘bullsh*t’ to Roxon etc), struts like a little bantam, thrusts his chin out every chance he gets. Someone SO desperate to prove it, isn’t the real deal…whatever else they are.

nossy says:

04:27pm | 20/02/12

@stevem in horse racing parlance stevem a one length win fella - 2010 by short half head. Clear?

Esteban says:

04:32pm | 20/02/12

Bob I would love to hear your assessment of Rudd. To me he is a case study for the shrinks.

PW says:

04:38pm | 20/02/12

Just like John Howard in the mid-80’s, Abbott does not strike me as a man whose time is at hand. Quite possibly a work in progress, like for Howard another decade might do wonders, but I just cannot see Australia taking Dr No to its bosom in the near future. It’s just too hard to take him seriously. The Libs brains trust know this and will dump him at an opportune time, maybe 12 months from now.

Bob Smith says:

05:01pm | 20/02/12

It’s always struck me as funny that Rudd has studied Chinese because he is very ‘Chinese’ in temperament. He always maintains a ‘public face’. So he can just have been horribly insulted, yet he will have his little fixed smile and measured voice (while he is thinking ‘I’m gonna burn you!’). He shares the characteristic Chinese inscrutability.

He sounds like a bit of a demanding petty tyrant behind the scenes who has few people skills. He, funnily enough, like Turnbull, was unused to leading a team (unless it agreed with him anyhow), convincing them, and carrying them with him, and it ended up costing both of them dearly.

Both Turnbull and Rudd are intelligent men though and seem capable of learning from their mistakes. Turnbull particularly so. I would expect Malcolm mkII, if we ever see it, to be a different and more conciliatory beast than mkI.