The not so wild west: in Perth change is a dirty word

Pertharina says:

09:55am | 25/08/09

Piss off to Melbourne then. Some of us have lives that don’t involve shopping.

NH from Perth says:

10:48am | 25/08/09

Having settled in Perth 5 years ago after following my now wife to the golden west from Newcastle, I have come to understand the WA attitude towards issues such as this.  The real question that needs to be asked here is why?  Why do we need longer shopping hours? What will they be used for.  Because, really, until that question is answered, how can we decide on whether change should be made.  The answer is not “because it is done in the east” because quite simply, if that is the argument the referendum on daylight saving should give you an indication of WA’s attitude to this argument.  No, that argument is a cop out.  The answer could be to allow people more freedom to arrange their schedule but really, we all seem to manage at the moment.  Those who want longer shopping hours need to come up with something more persuasive than they have to date.  Quite frankly I couldn’t care less.

EC says:

11:18am | 25/08/09

We don’t all manage!  I also moved here from the east (like every second person in the west…) and had the misfortune to live alone and work Mon-Fri 8-6 and every second Saturday.  Makes it pretty hard to ever go to the supermarket, let alone buy anything else.  My life certainly doesn’t revolve around shopping, but just being able to have food would be nice (and don’t mention IGA - I do shop there if I have to but they don’t have everything and charge a big markup on most items!)

I previously worked in retail (both for a large chain and for a small business) in Tasmania during their transition to restricted to unrestricted trading hours 10 years ago.  As an employee my experience was that work suddenly became more manageable (because you didn’t have the rush from 5.30 every night as people desperately tried to get their shopping done on the way home from work) and more flexible, because the shop was open longer hours.  The owners (particularly in the small business) also found that their sales went up and they could have the shop open the hours where they actually had customers.  Despite being against it initially we were surprised and became big fans of the change. 

As a customer there’s no argument - it’s better for the shops to be open longer.

The WA attitude simply reflects an inability to imagine anything different being better.  It’s not unique to them, it happens everywhere…

jonathan says:

11:22am | 25/08/09

I wouldn’t complain about it.  Longer retail hours don’t add anything to modern life.

MF says:

11:25am | 25/08/09

@Pertharina - Some of us have jobs that mean we’re stuck going to the supermarket with 1.5 million other people on a Saturday.  I understand how idiots like yourself might have trouble understanding how that’s an issue when you’re unemployed or work mediocre 9-5 jobs that allow you to go to buy food during the week.

Razor says:

12:39pm | 25/08/09

Pertharina - I run my own business.  My wife runs her own busniess.  We have two young children aged 4 and 2.  We are flat out getting on with it.  being able to duck out to the shops at 8 pm to grab some things or shop for home goods on a Sunday etc etc would be wonderful.

We have lived in ACT, NT and VIC before coming back to WA.  Why do Australians need to be treated differently?  the States and territories are anchronistic vestiges of our colonial past.  Get rid of them and treat all Australians equally - end the discrimination.

As a conservative I see the role of Government to be an enabler of commmerce - not a hinderance.  The ridiculous retail hours and other restrictions should be removed.  Both my wife and I can work and open our businesses whenever we want to.  Why should retailers be restricted?

And bring back Daylight saving - this family loves it.

Crash says:

01:26pm | 25/08/09

It is absolutely amazing how personal this and the DLS issue get.  Even with the referundums showing quite clearly that the majority of people in WA don’t want either of these things introduced, we are still treated to people ranting that we’re idiots or selfish for having a completely reasonable set of beliefs. 
  If you really want to make headway on the issue you need to stop focusing on tired arguments that have failed repeatedly such as the aforementioned ‘Well the eastern states have it’ repeated slightly louder every time as if the populace simply don’t get it.  It’s insulting to people who do have considered viewpoints about the subject to repeat this monotonous catchcry ad infinitum as if that is the be all and end all of the discussion.
Focus on the positives, rather than belittling the other viewpoint and talking about how stupid people who disagree are.
It is an issue that people can only decide based on their personal needs and opinions yet so many people seem to think that by telling people that everything they think is ridiculous, they will change those people’s minds.  To put it in perspective - Joe, everything you think about Brendan Grylls is wrong and stupid.  I demand that you change your mind now.
*Repeat until Joe changes his mind*
Annoying, isn’t it?

Shama says:

01:39pm | 25/08/09

Is “shopping” merely mindless consumer spending?  80% of the time it is essentials, not all of us who want the shops open expect to be mindless cruising the mall on weekends. As posters here indicate, the timings are incovenient. Why are the shops only open at times when most of the population is working?  The few times I have had a day off in the week, the shops only seem to be full of pensioners.  It would be much easier if the shops stayed close on a week day and and stayed open in the weekends. Would probably work better for small business too (in fact small business would probably prefer staying open 7 days).  The original intent was probably the fact that people went to church on Sundays. This no longer seems to be true for many people so why keep the shops closed?

Pertharina says:

02:25pm | 25/08/09

I have two words - lazy and incompetant. Get up and be at the shops at 8 am when they open on a Saturday and you won’t be shopping with everyone else. If your time management skills are so poor that you can’t do this you wan’t have a job/small business for much longer
Anyway, I do all my shopping online - you should try joining the 21st century…

Mac says:

02:33pm | 25/08/09

Here in South Australia we were told that the majority of people didn’t want extended trading hours and that extending hours would lead to some sort of social breakdown as people would always be working behind a checkout and not able to spend time with their families. 

Guess what happened, we now enjoy the freedom of being able to shop at night or on weekends- and the sky hasn’t fallen in.  For once we aren’t the most backwards place in Australia.

Shama says:

02:52pm | 25/08/09

Given that pertharina is mostly online and only out and about at 8 am on Saturday, it amazes me that she is firing on all cylinders about shops that are open in the weekend.  Presumably her time managment skills revolve around her online hours. And presumably its not retail therapy she is against as much as being very very annoyed by non-shuttered establishments.  Maybe she would prefer Perth shops to be closed altogether and relocated to Melbourne - and then she can buy useless stuff from their online avatars?

AJ says:

02:56pm | 25/08/09

This is all just a little bit stupid.  Whilst not a conservative by any means, I entirely agree with the proposal that the Government’s role shouldn’t be to dictate when shops open or close.  If a business can operate at other hours (keeping in mind the welfare of the staff in that business), and there’s a demand for it, why the hell not?

And as for Pertharina, well, it’s nice that you do all your shopping online, but you and everyone else who like shops to only be open at certain hours because of your bizarre perception of an ideal social existence have a ridiculously dictatorial attitude to what the Government’s role should be.

KJ says:

03:23pm | 25/08/09

What I don’t get in this whole shopping debarcle is why the gerneral public got to vote? I can understand with DLS as it affects everyone eith in a positive or negative way. But with shopping hours if you aren’t in retail it makes no difference to your life so why should you have a say.

MF says:

05:56pm | 25/08/09

@pertharina - you buy your fresh fruit and veg online?  Doubt that. 

I also happen to work weekends on a regular basis.  Which means leaving for work at 7.30am (during the week and weekends) and not finishing work until 8pm.  So again, when exactly do you propose I go grocery shopping?  Or should I starve, since I have non-regular work hours?  I’ve lived in the middle of redneck-ville, North Queensland, and even they weren’t this narrowminded and backwards.  Where there is *gasp* supermarkets open till 10pm and *shock horror* Sunday trading.

This isn’t about comparing WA to the east coast, it’s about moving into the 21st century.  How can Perth be expected to be taken seriously when they’re 25 years in the past?

Pertharina says:

10:41pm | 25/08/09

Deary me. Of course I buy all my fresh fruit and veg online. And Coles Online delivers until 9pm. Try harder people.

Pertharina says:

11:20pm | 25/08/09

Oh look. I’m bored with baiting you. I honestly don’t care if trading hours are extended or not. I can remember when *gasp* Saturday afternoon trading came in, my goodness we talked about it for months. But if your lives and work are that all over the place, I can highly recommend internet grocery shopping.  Ciao !

Maxthegold says:

11:36am | 26/08/09

What I cannot understand is why government gets involved in this question at all. Surely we live in a free society. Traders should be free to open whenever they think is best for their business. If the market does not want this they will soon find out.

monkey says:

12:57pm | 26/08/09

@Pertharina if you only have two words, learn how to spell them both. Tho it is chuckle-worthy that your incompetence is what has lead you to spell incompetence incorrectly.

What i don’t get is why people who don’t want to shop don’t want other people shopping either? What does it matter to you?

I also don’t get why there’s all this global recession doom and gloom, jobs being lost left right and centre, and yet a solution to both - extending shopping hours - is voted down?

wtf. I am truly over this backward state.

Garry says:

01:50pm | 26/08/09

I am against extended hours yet if the people decide too then so be it but they do not. Why? To be honest I do not know but one thing that does rattle my cage and make me think, let it stay as it is, are the people who say we are backward, we are old fashioned, stuck in the past and all that. Which is great to hear when you work in IT, are young-ish and well travelled as is my case… and well if you insult me rather than give me valid arguments then you won’t change my mind. 

Whatever debate we attempt to have ends up a slinging match against each other and the issue lost.

Buying veggies on a Sunday, sure there are lots of fruit and veg markets on Sunday, buying on line, yes I used too for everything including fresh veggies but that was when I lived North of the city now I am just South they do not deliver over the river… which is a discussion in itself, me thinks…  Problem with buying on line for us was they delivered during the day and not weekends… and that is a problem when you both work more than 40 hours a week.

Amazing really, if you consider no entrepreneur has come up with an idea online ordering and delivery after hours, franchised it and made a fortune (oh and if anyone now does it was my idea) 

Still the wife and I manage to do what we need because we find the time, but then we work in situations that allow for us to manage time effectively, for those that don’t I think you will need to and stop insulting those who you should be convincing to help out and change attitudes …  if we had that referendum that is and I was convinced on the need, you would get my vote.

I am against businesses telling us what we should and should not have - do you truly think they are doing it for us?

The demand is not there, if it was then the WA Government would do it, they wont because they know it is not popular, so the argument is out there…. Convince me with reason and I will say yes, do not then I say no because I see no need…. Now go on Insult me…

KN says:

09:35pm | 26/08/09

I agree with @Monkey - why are people who don’t want to shop at these hours so vehemently against it?

Someone said earlier that the “For” argument is a tiresome “but the eastern states have it”.

Why don’t the “Against” camp and the people who don’t want to shop during extended hours give us a real explanation why, and one that is not:  “I just don’t wanna”.

KN says:

09:58pm | 26/08/09

It’s not just about grocery shopping.
And it is not about Time Management (thanks, Pertharina).

What if you work from 8am (must be there on time) and leave at 6pm or 7pm (must leave then, no choice)? The only break you have is 30 minutes for lunch, and your job is not in the city or near any facilities.

* You can’t get to the post office.  They generally operate 9-4:30pm. Unless you’re lucky to live near one of the few PO’s open on a Saturday morning, otherwise you have to drive across the city to get to one, and they shut at midday so you’re stuffed if you have to take the kids to sport, or if you work on Saturdays too.

* Banks, while they are now getting more extended times, not all of them are open so it’s a hassle getting to one.

* Need to take a day off work to get your car serviced, because no one operates outside of hours. If hours were deregulated, someone may choose to open such a service - the market would be there.

* If you want buy something to eat after 9pm you’re stuck with fast food take away as restaurant kitchens are closed and there certainly isn’t anything healthy available. (damn Fresh Provisions for changing their opening hours!)

* Not everyone wants to buy online.  What if you want to choose a different brand, or read the ingredients on a label. Coles Online is not convenient to all and doesn’t list all the products you find in the store.

For people who work all day, shift workers, night people, and just regular folks who don’t want to squeeze everything into the daylight hours, why are we not allowed to express this?  All we want is trading hours to be extended by a few hours, or deregulated so shops have the choice to open when they wish.

Please someone give me an honest-to-god rational reason why we should not have trading hours extended?  I’m sick of the death-of-society arguments (we’ll stop going to church, there’ll be no AFL team), the personal jabs (thanks again, Pertharina), and IGA funded astroturfing (IGA’s satisfy the small customer demand, pffft).

Give me a real reason why opponents continue to inconvenience the rest of us - you’re not being inconvenienced, so what is your point?  Please!

Crash says:

03:57pm | 27/08/09

If you’d like some real reasons, allow me to provide some.
1.  Perth already pays a premium on most goods due to our distance from the eastern states.  If you increase operational costs for businesses (paying staff etc), then prices will go up.  It is that simple.
2.  Regardless of what the vocal minoirty think, there is very little demand for it.  Go to your local shopping centre, have a look around on a Thursday night then divide the customers you see by an extra four nights.  Barring supermarkets, Thursday nights are a joke to most people that work in retail.  Your mentioned Fresh Prov changing their hours.  Do you know why? Because there was no actual demand and they were losing money.  According to the pro argument, they should have been rolling in cash from all the people that demand extra shopping hours.
3.  Staffing is a nightmare at the moment as it is.  Retail is always looking for staff and even though demand may have slowed of late a significant balance of retailers are consistently understaffed, but people seem to believe that more people will magically appear from nowhere to fill the extra few hours a night.  Complained about customer service recently?  Be prepared for it to get a lot worse.  You say this doesn’t inconvenience anyone who doesn’t want to shop at these times?  What about the staff who have to work it?
4.  At it’s core, this is an issue of poor time management.  I work in retail and I work most of the hours the shop is open, but I still have no problem whatsoever getting to the shops for groceries when I need to.  If your job takes up so much of your time that you cannot get to the shops then you are being taken advantage of by your employer and you should talk to your boss.  There are so many people citing ‘real life’ examples where ‘they and their wife work 160 hours a week each and have four kids and blah blah blah’. People forget that maximum hours of work are mandated by law and if you need to not work the overtime in order to attend to neccesities, then you have every right to refuse to do the extra hours with no fear for your job safety.
5.  If you do it for retail, it should be for everybody.  It should be the post office, it should be banks, it should be all government departments, it should be accountants, it should be doctors, it should be mechanics.  IT SHOULD BE EVERYBODY!!!!  If shopping is that vital then why are all the other vital services in our society not extending their hours? It’s because the pro camp is inherently selfish.  People are expecting business to p*ss money up against a wall on the off chance that they may wanty to buy something
That’s five good reasons for you.  Enjoy

Sheridan says:

01:42am | 12/09/09

I would like the shops to be open until 9pm 6 days a week at least and 5pm on Sundays. I am sick and tired of Perth catching up with everything else in the world without having any of the the things that other cities take for granted. If we are such a smoking hot metropolis that our housing prices are amongst the highest in the country, and indeed higher than many other parts of the world. Then why can’t we have have shops that are open from 8:30 - 9pm 6 days a week and until 5pm on Sunday? The only reason we don’t have them is so that small businesses can rip us off for a small fortune just because we get home from work and can’t go to the supermarket. Perth has adopted the worst of modern living and left out the best parts. We don’t have a decent public transport system, we don’t have bearable shopping hours and we are lacking in culture.

Perth has moved on, it will never be the place that it once was, thanks to the expensive cost of housing. So now that we have have to pay half a mil for a decent pad, lets see some other benefits of a growing metropolis.

wa says:

10:42am | 05/09/12

Why should we change anything? I say stay the same until the end of the world. I do not buy clothes, we do not have any no way not in wa, no clothes today, no way not in wa. hey! i do not want clothes today its not ok, i live in wa I married my first cousin we live together in an igloo in the new ski complex no way i am in wa