The myths and reality of seeking asylum

Scot says:

04:36pm | 18/12/10

This from Skynews:
“Other concerns were raised about food and air conditioning,’ he said.

‘It was a peaceful protest, the facility remained calm at all times. There was no damage, there was definitely no riot, there was no breakout as such, they simply came out and said their piece simply because the media were there.’

He said a power outage was responsible for the lack of air-conditioning on the tropical island, and their unhappiness at the discomfort was not surprising.” How many Australians have the luxury of complaining about food and air conditioning, many of us cannot even afford it any more and our pensions are less than what these refugees get in Labor Government support of free hotels for six months. Many cannot afford a holiday or luxuries yet we waste $1.6B on refugees. What conditions did these economic refugees have in Indonesia before they came to Christmas Island. Unbelievable rubbish.

zac says:

11:51pm | 18/12/10

Can’t agree more!!!! It is high time we withdraw from the LEFTIST “UN Convention On Refugees”. Labor may have second thoughts, now that they are on the downer it can affect their vote source..

Phil says:

10:10am | 19/12/10

Scot you are correct.

Whilst the writer is employed in one of the endless organisations set up to be a business and profit/exist from suffering, we must look at her writing in that context.

All these individuals do is try and justify their existence. They never take ownership of the issue and put up ideas as to how to solve the problem of the worlds refugees as this would ultimately put them out of a job and stop the gravy train that profit from suffering.

As Caz says in her piece, what mother would risk their childrens lives. In Australia DOCS would step in and remove any child placed at level of risk.

As I have said for many months, the answer is simple, recind our signature to the UN refugee act or whatever its called. It is outdated, and the UN is a toothless tiger whose KMart plastic spine is half the reason the world is in the state it currently is. Fix the problems at source, but the UN blatently turns a blind eye to the dictators of the world who commit mass murder, ethnic cleansing etc. Therefore for the UN to tell us to do only cause we are run by a bunch of limp pe_@s bastards is a joke.

The lawyers, activists etc do not do so bro bono at least most of them dont, they do it all for money, publicity etc. Labors laws changed to encourage people smugglers to risk the refugees lives are to blame. Bring back temporary visas for a start for a period of 5 years. 1 protest, criminal act and they are sent home. How they are able to get onto the roof at Villawood is a joke and someone should be fired for allowing/encouraging/assisting with this. Rubber bullets will get them down quickly.

After recinding our signature, we should not allow any illegal entrants by boat or plane to stay under any circumstances, but should increase our humanitarian intake by 200%. Pick them from the camps of the world. People will know pretty quickly that this is the only way to Australia. We can check them out, then fly them to seek a 5 year temp visa in Country Australia. Set them up have programs,give them a cash start, which will be repaid with their taxes, have real nation building ones not Julia school halls and pink batts crap. Thus giving the refugees jobs to pay taxes which will provide self sufficency. No social security for 5 years and then only a max 6 months in the next 5 years. Any criminal act in that 10 year period and they are returned home regardless of the consequences. After 10 years automatic citizenship.

Problem is this would put all the bleeding hearts out of work as advocates. We need to stop funding these organisations and get to the heart of the issue. We will save billions and this money can be used for the programs in the counrty to set up once again vibrant towns.

I challenge anyone to get other real ideas into mainstream press.

Scot says:

11:31am | 19/12/10

Phil. Yes I support this view. Australia with the Labor Party and the Greens is a soft touch, the UN knows they can push them into a corner and get from them what no other country in Asia will give the UN, Japan, Sth. Korea, China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, to name a few. As for Malaysia and Indonesia they live off the misery of these people and MONEY TALKS or you can get on your bike and leave. When these people turn up in Malaysia and Indonesia the border protection people can immediately see these people are worth a lot of money to them, life is cheap. The Labor government have always been and always will be fools, they are so Naive. If Dudd lived in China he would know how China deals with such matters of protecting is sovereign rights and will not allow external interference in its internal affairs. Gillard allows other countries and the UN to manipulate our policies and kowtows to them. YES we should change the playing field.

ceebails says:

08:48am | 20/12/10

Phil. Very sensible compromise. How about if the 18-40 year old males did a few years army service - perhaps even go back and support OUR troops in fighting for THEIR country?

acotrel says:

03:08pm | 20/12/10

No need to ‘withdraw the convention’!  All that needs happen is for Tony Abbott to publicly state his new White Australia Policy!

Faz says:

07:19am | 19/12/10

And make sure there is no publicity about their fate when they get back there, Eric? Couldn’t have the Australian public knowing that they got ‘dissapeared’ or shot, could we?

I guess the possibilty of Australia having the kind of internal conflict that would have families desperate to get out is beyond the imagination of those with no imagination, but they can imagine shopping so that’s how it must work.

Wayne Fehlhaber says:

09:23am | 19/12/10

It seems that the majority of those on board the doomed boat were not genuine refugees according to a report from the U.N. relating to the incident. ( 8am 19/12/10 7 Network. )

Brad of Bentleigh says:

10:12am | 19/12/10

The author mentions coming without documentation… the problem is, Sophie, that they have documentation (and ALL fly to Malaysia for example) until they leave on a boat for the final leg.

Paul Prentice says:

01:11am | 20/12/10

Its time the people in this country rise up and have every treaty with the UN “shredded” Rudd knows how to use on of those machines, so does our Governor General ,The treaties with UN have all be signed by labor,
behind closed doors without the knowledge of the Australian people.
99% of Australians have no idea what the Lima agreement..or Agenda 21…If they did there would be a instant riot…

Martin says:

03:16pm | 18/12/10

Andy, those people are comming to Australia mostly from Indonesia and somehow they made it there from countries of their origin like Iran,Iraq. To the best of my knowkedge those people had to cross a number of countries to get to Indonesia which is highly improbable that they accomplished this without passports. There is an international airport in Jakarta and if they did not destroy their documents they could get on a plane arrive to Australia and on the arrival at the airport ask for an asylum. What do you reckon is their reason for not doing it this much cheaper and much safer way?

Austin 3:16 says:

09:19pm | 18/12/10

So what do you do Andy if you’re in Afganistan and you don’t have travel documents like as pasport. Especially if you’re in one of the rougher areas.

Just front up to your local warlord with a couple of photo’s you’ve taken of your self and ask if he’d mind putting a passport together for you.

Andy says:

12:10pm | 19/12/10

Austin, I don’t know because I don’t live there, BUT, if you need a passport to get on and off a plane, and travel through Malaysia, and on to Indonesia, and then destroy that passport in order to prevent yourself from being identified; the reasons for doing so could hardly be considered Kosher. It has been a common practice among those arriving here by boat.
Like it or not, our system is being taken advantage of. These people might be considered desperate, but maybe not for any of the reasons you’d prefer to cite. If being born and raised in a third world country with a repressive, unstable system of government was absolute criteria for ANYONE to enter any country of their choosing and secure ongoing social support, I don’t think I have to describe where that would end.
Count your blessings and do what you can to help from where you are, or move overseas if you think that might help, but to open the gates to anyone who can manage to park a boat off Christmas Island or Ashmore Reef, is no way to run a humanitarian aid program. There is a limit to the help any one nation can and should provide for assisting GENUINE refugees, and a rational system developed by which this help is administered, and those who would take advantage of that system by leap-frogging those already in the system deserve the heaviest scrutiny of their cases. The money, and will to obtain entry to a country by whatever means should not be good enough reason for automatic entry no matter how arduous the journey.
If you’ve got any suggestions as to how Australia may better serve the international community, let’s hear them.

Sophie says:

11:14am | 21/12/10

Andy, there’s no such thing as a ‘legitimate’ or ‘illegitimate’ refugee. Each individual application is assessed on its own merit and the person is found to be a refugee or not. Papers, no papers -  whatever the case, to put it very simply; if there is persecution there needs to be protection.

Sheldon says:

12:42pm | 18/12/10

How are boat people dangerous?

TCB 24 X 7 says:

03:05pm | 18/12/10

Sheldon you miss the point

A WEAK leader and govt with WEAK policies is dangerous for Australias future.
Too numerous to give examples of,but people of strength and character know exactly what im talking about.

Eric says:

04:50pm | 18/12/10

Sheldon - ask the Aborigines.

biff says:

05:05pm | 18/12/10

The danger is that you may contract TB (like 6 of our border protection personnel). If you contract TB it could be a 2 year recovery with daily doses of Rifabutin 150mg, Clarithromycin 500mg, Myambutol 100mg, and, in the afternoon another Clarithromycin. You’ll need to consult an MD who will refer you to a specialist who will send you for MRI scans and also you will need to provide blood samples at determined intervals. If the particular strain of TB causes you to experience changed taste sensation the simple pleasure of two cutlets with 3 veg will taste vile. Your food intake will be restricted to foods that don’t smell or taste vile. You will feel weak and experience depressing weight loss.  Long term use of the above drugs can result in chest pain; diarrhea; appetite loss; headache; stomach pain, nausea, and other issues. TB has also taken many lives. Anyone want to roll the dice and take the chance? TB is on the rise in Australia. TB might fit the term ‘dangerous’.

PaulB says:

08:07am | 19/12/10

Certain hospitals in Northern Australia are already hosting large groups of TB patients who have drifted in through the border protection collander that is the Thursday Island group from PNG, and yes, locals and caregivers have been exposed and required treatment.  MDR (Multi-Drug-Resistant) TB is just one more gift from the Globalization fairies.

Heath Karl says:

12:35pm | 18/12/10

Withdrawing from an unenforceable statute is symbolism.

Under what basis, if we withdraw from the convention, would we be able to fulfil our “moral obligations”? Will Australian agents be dispatched to the hostile corners of the world to search for refugees who fall outside the jurisdiction of the UN convention. Will our government engage in secret deals with the corrupt governments of the third world?

The ‘queue’, that the nationalists have spent so long defending, they now despise. They seek to destroy it. The ‘queue’ is the international framework for processing refugees, formed around the refugee convention. They now claim two things. On the one hand those in the queue are genuine and those outside it are illegitimate. On the other they claim that the queue itself is the problem.

instead of flippantly claiming:
1. Boats would stop
2. Smugglers would lose their market
3. Genuine refugees would see improved care
4. National security could be done ‘on-the-cheap’.

The actual outcome would be
1. Boats would drastically increase. Those who seek entry to this country would no longer use the UN system and would have fewer option available to them, increasing the attractiveness of the sea crossing.
2. Smugglers would have a market that would increase in proportion to those who would have otherwise entered a UN camp.
3. The ‘genuine’ refugees, who waited in the ‘queue’ will discover their wait to be worthless.
4.Instead of UN camps, we would require our own network of processing facilities right across the third world, either under our control and funds, or controlled by foreign interests and paid for by us.

Considering virtually all the frightened nationalists are now on the same “destroy the convention” bent, we can assume they have simultaneously uncovered the source of problem. I wouldn’t be so cynical to suggest that they all received the same silly email that contaminated my inbox last week. It was probably a coordinated epiphany.

Greg says:

11:38pm | 18/12/10

Heath Karl, is the UN Convention really an “unenforceable statute”? That would be strange, given how many times that Australians have been told that it is “international law that we are obliged to comply with”.

Somebody must be lying.

However, even if withdrawal is just symbolic, then it is still a message worth sending. After all, we were all told that the “Pacific Solution” was unworkable, so maybe it was just the message it sent that made it so successful in stopping the boats.

Just let me and every other Australian have their say. Hold a referendum. I’ll take my chances.

Catpee says:

12:13pm | 18/12/10

Cate P
“It is well known that the last thing the boat passengers do before they board the boat is destroy their papers.  If they didn’t have papers of some kind they would not have been able to pass through the several countries they do”
Made the journey have you Cate? Watched as those around you destroyed their identification? Passed through border checkpoints with them have you?

john says:

12:15pm | 18/12/10

Cate P, those Iraqis and Iranians that drowned in Xmas island tragedy have perfectly good working airports, and other transport infrastructure just because they don’t like their countries I’m uncertain how they were refugees? were they Iraqi/iranian christians fleeing?
Neither country is having any war, they were not Afghanistanies fleeing a war torn country or persecuted Kurdish people, I fail too see how people fleeing a country they don’t like constitutes a refugee status?

We should be waiting for the full report, shouldn’t we.

So far to me it looks more like a shady business deal gone wrong with some shady Indonesian boat owners. The issue is we are lumped with cleaning up the mess.

Heath Karl says:

01:08pm | 18/12/10

” It is well known that the last thing the boat passengers do before they board the boat is destroy their papers.”

Can you link to a copy of the refugee itinerary?

It is not well known, Cate P, that papers are destroyed as a last measure before they board the boat. You have imagined it. “lets not cloud the issue with error”.  Your reptilian logic, not fact, is on full display; People in Afghanistan and Sri Lanka must have copies of their passports, or their birth certificate, or the title to their house, or pay-slips, or receipts, or something to identify them and where they come from. Surely. Surely these people needed papers to walk across a border. They must have. They had to pay someone for the boat ride, so they would have to be completely loaded. They would have papers if they had money. One thing they would not have done is work in Indonesia. They also have family here, so something more than desperation and risk must be at-work here. Something more than the desire to unite your family. Something probably sinister.

Charles says:

05:32pm | 18/12/10

Well Heath, since all of them who arrrive on boats don’t have any identification, yet they managed to get to indonesia or Malaysia then it is probably a fair bet they destroyed their identification just prior to or just after departing Indonesia.

As to your comment that they can’t work in Indonesia, some of the first tranche who arrived in Australia after softening of the laws in 2008, stated they had been in Indonesia for up to 10 years, and some had actually started businesses there, so that statement would appear to be completely wrong too.

Finally, some illegals principally from Sri Lanka do fly out of their own country to places like Malaysia and Indonesia, and I would suspect that a fair few from Iraq and Iran would do the same as there are no restrictions on them

no issue says:

10:18pm | 19/12/10

Charles, based on what do you think that the identification ever existed? There are more ways to cross a border than to pass through legitimate check points, just ask the boat people coming here or all of the ‘illegal aliens’ that cross the border into the US every year.

The truth is that we know NOTHING of the situations that these people are in. Not WHY they are coming, not HOW they got here prior to the boat leaving, not HOW they afforded it. NOTHING. Don’t assume that just because we here document everything that we do that it means that people document their lives to the extent that we do elsewhere. If there is a will there is a way.

If documentation was the issue then this issue would be easily solved.

notsurprised says:

11:57am | 20/12/10

Heath Karl, just because you are unaware doesn’t mean that someone else has imagined it. This information has been common knowledge for a long time.

Taken from the UN Refugee Agency’s official website:
“Of similar concern is the growing phenomenon of refugees and asylum-seekers who wilfully destroy or dispose of their documentation in order to mislead the authorities of the country of arrival.”

Read for yourself: http://www.unhcr.org/3ae68c4380.html

Austin 3:16 says:

09:27pm | 18/12/10

‘the fear when we see five blokes coming towards us on the street’

Gee I dunno why anybody would get the impression that you need to be educated. You can probably even understand big words, like paranoid, xenophobic and hysterical over-reaction. Odd that such an emotional response like fear is a result of you deriving your conclusions logically.

Maybe that education of yours just didn’t go as far as it could have.

Ricky says:

08:16am | 19/12/10

Absolutly spot on Dan.well said.Any bleeding heart that needs proof should take a walk down our own little slice of the middle east,  Lakemba.it is now largely a filthy, crime ridden ghetto where white Australians are abused & spat on(i have seen this first hand) due largely to the cultures these people bring to our shores. Australia has many, many needy who arent looked after half as well as these illegal economic migrants.Its sickening.

Steph says:

06:38am | 20/12/10

Well said, Dan.

Simon of Belmore says:

09:27am | 20/12/10

I am white and live in Lakemba/Belmore - never been spat on, never been abused, never been assaulted..In fact people say hello and are quite friendly, even saw a girl wearing an xmas hat over her hijab on Sunday.

Im more scared of a group of drunk white guys walking down the street in kings cross loaded up on alcohol then I am walking down punchbowl road.

But I suppose perception rules over reality these days.

Sophie says:

11:12am | 21/12/10

Sorry Dab\n -  “we’ve” not felt the fear. In fact my life is enriched for having refugees, former refugees and asylum seekers in it. Seems the different value systems may be yours and mine??

Tripper Smurf says:

11:33am | 20/12/10

I wouldnt see the other side of politics doing much better given the events of the former Coalition government in relation to this issue.  Both sides of politics are just as bad as each other in this regard.

Ex Liberal voter says:

12:39pm | 20/12/10

The coalition have no policies and pretend that everything would be better under them. anyone surprised?
The coalition bozos don’t deserve a paycheck. We could just send in some pre-schoolers who are just as good as saying no as the opposition.

Ben81 says:

09:02pm | 18/12/10

Do you just have a text file full of weird rants that you randomly copy & paste into the comments here or something?

ken says:

06:45am | 19/12/10

What is your point? What is your solution for those so call refugee (economic bludger)?  Before you start abusing JH and abbott, you should ask your beloved Liebour party , Jollier and that gay Brown what solution have they got. Sick of you die hard Liebour scum

Sophie says:

12:00pm | 21/12/10

It’s not lack of opportunity that defines someone as being a refugee it’s meeting one of the five criteria as defined by the UN Refugee Convention -  this hasn’t changed since 1951.

I didn’t think it relevant in responding to the Christmas Island tragedy to discuss Africa and the countries on the continent who are signatories to the Convention. We have reports that the people on board were from Iran and Iraq.  I cannot think of a boat to Australia from Africa.

I did not mean to give the impression of ‘monolithic islands of distinctiveness’ - in fact we know that persecution can follow people across borders where the same groups are in operation. People however generally do have a distinctive home, village, city, street, community -  leaving that in these situations is rarely an easy choice, and often not a choice at all.
Leaving that for insecurity and uncertainty in a country just because it happens to be next door is not always (and quite often not) a durable solution.

Tripper Smurf says:

11:35am | 20/12/10

What needs to be done is for the convention to be looked at and re-tweaked to better serve the current situations that many countries, not just Australia, are facing with the refugee question worldwide.

Scot says:

03:49pm | 18/12/10

Wayne, Who cares why they flee in the first place. There are some 45M refugees around the world at last count by the UNHCR?  Does that put it into perspective for you. What do you think will happen if we get inundated with 500,000 people next year because the Gillard Government have failed its people to STOP these people coming and take action to prosecute the snake heads for the murder of many. The snake heads have made between US29M to $60M in trafficking and it has cost the Australian tax payer $1.6B and this is just for 2010? Germany, Belgium, Span, Sweden. UK and France have had it as well.

Wayne Fehlhaber says:

09:33am | 19/12/10

Scot : i fully agree with you , my first sentence is a quote from the subject matter.    ” We need to focus on why peeople flee in the first place “
Plese read my comment again , i am fully against the boat people coming here , the bulk of whom are opportunists , seizing on a weak govt. border control and a generous welfare system.

Incidently , it has now been revealed that the majority of people on the doomed boat were not genuine refugees. ( 8am 19/12/10 7 News )

marley says:

07:20pm | 18/12/10

Nor complete rubbish.  the Malaysians allowed the Vietnamese to stay in camps because donor countries were funding the camps and promising to take the Vietnamese.

Sophie says:

11:21am | 21/12/10

Tim, sadly the situation we have witnessed first hand in Malaysia, Thailand and Bangladesh is of hundreds of thousands of refugees and asylum seekers living in informal camps, existing as illegal migrants, being returned in some cases to the persecution they fled. The current situation and numbers are such that the UNHCR cannot process and house all of these people and there is no input from local governments in addressing the issues. Even recognised refugees are faced with wait periods of many years in sub-standard conditions, seperated from their families with poor health care, lack of education and no legal rights to work.

Colin J Ely says:

06:04pm | 18/12/10

So Mark, i will ask you the bleedingly obvious,‘why are their governments barely functioning?’ Our country was set up barely two centuries ago and we have(despite Labours attempts to wreck it) a prosperous stable country. Some of these countries where refugees are coming from boast of civilizations going back for a thousand years or more. Iran and Iraq are awash with petrodollars. Afghanistan has the potential to be the ‘open cut mine of Asia’ Sri Lanka has deepwater harbours at the crossroads of maritime commerce and what used to be a thriving tourist trade? We have members of the Royal Australian Engineers risking their lives in Afghanistan to build roads and schools. Incidentally Afghanistan has a canal system to water the desert going back many centuries. BTW identification documentation need not be a Passport, surely these countries issue birth certificates or even a bill from the government for your two hours of electricity for the day!
We in Australia WILL NOT TOLERATE boatloads of potential migrants arriving on our doorstop unannounced! This is not to say that we will not accept migrants into our country. A lot has been said lately about ‘three word slogans’, well a journalist reduced politics the other day to a ‘three word slogan’ COST OF LIVING! We, the taxpayers of Australia are having to stump up the cost of building and running camps for these people until their status is established, we are giving aid to their former countries, it was announced today that Kevin24/7 has pledged millions of dollars in aid to Latin America, now we, as a nation, have always supported overseas charities, but since when has Latin America been in our sphere of influence? We can understand giving aid to countries such as Timor Leste and PNG which were our wartime allies and also to less fortunate countries in our own backyard of Oceania but to give miilions of dollars to places like Egypt and Latin America is hard to fathom.
Your comment ‘governments that were barely functioning before the armies of the west moved in’, what would you have had us do, leave them to their ways and slowly starve and persecute their citizens or do something about it as Global Citizens?

AndrewK says:

03:51pm | 18/12/10

Well, Google Scholar turns up over 160 thousand results for “human rights abuses in Iran”. That would suggest that there is possibly something to flee.

MarK says:

10:59am | 19/12/10

And if you change Iran to Australia in the search you get 1,600,00 hits

So by your definition we are 10 times worse at human rights abuses than Iran.

This would suggest we all should be Australia does it not?

AndrewK says:

08:18pm | 19/12/10

MarK,

Firstly, there was no definition, of human rights abuses or otherwise.

Secondly, at no point did I suggest that the scope of human rights abuses was proportionate to the number of Google Scholar results for that particular search. Your imputation of the inference that this is the case is the creation of a straw man argument - it is the last resort of the scoundrel and politician.

Rather, my (somewhat flippant) remark was supposed to refute the notion in the original commentor’s post that people fleeing from Iran might not be doing so legitimately.

Of course, if you would prefer to live in a nation that stones people for adultery, don’t let me stop you.

Tripper Smurf says:

11:41am | 20/12/10

One of my best friends is from Iran and fled persecution from the Revolutionary Islamic government in control of that nation because his parents supported the former Shah.

There are many reasons why you would flee a country.  Not all of them make it onto the 6 o’clock news.

Harald says:

08:50pm | 18/12/10

Geez - sounds tough. Time to leave I reckon, back to Ireland is it? Wales perchance? Good luck mate, giz a call and let us know how things are.

Zac says:

11:38am | 19/12/10

Harald,

No refugee would bother to come to a barren land and let’s not start on centre links benifits, dole, refugee support etc. So thank the Lord for the Irish, Welsh and English. Now you should give sufficient reasons why we should accept refugees who reject our culture, democracy etc.

The Badger says:

01:53am | 19/12/10

get a grip Jason
Anybody that reaches Australian territory can ask for asylum.
papers or not
if they are found not to be a genuine refugee, they are an illegal immigrant and are deported back to their home country.

Zac says:

11:32am | 19/12/10

The Badger,

if they are found not to be a genuine refugee,  they are an illegal immigrant

Who will decide this, the ideological Greens?

Peter says:

01:59pm | 19/12/10

Its called free speech and something the bleeding left is trying to mute by referring to anyone with a rational view to this ever increasing problem as being immoral and racist.
Speak your mind bleD and don’t be intimidated by socialist ideals.

MarK says:

08:19pm | 18/12/10

““which boats will you send back to sea Tony ?” - now Tony’s not a complete fool and realised that he was put on a spot. So he answered as usual “ummm errr ummm errr ummm “

Give a link to the video or transcript. And for the rest. Go on

Until then you are making stuff up.

John L says:

08:42pm | 18/12/10

Tony is a fool and it is impossible to turn the boats back. We know detention in Nauru is enough to stop the “asylum shoppers”. Open Nauru Julia, Its the only way out.

The Badger says:

01:58am | 19/12/10

Tony could use the boatphone and get High definition video of the situation on the ground (or sea) if he had an NBN connection.
Unfortunately if he had his way with an NBN, he couldn’t get HD video and the connection would keep dropping out.

The Boatphone says:

02:13am | 19/12/10

Mark
try here
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/7772473/pm-labels-abbotts-boat-phone-idea-nonsense/
or here
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/national/holy-asylum-seekers-tony-abbott-to-take-charge-of-boat-people-hotline/story-fn5z3z83-1225905662308
or here, where he says
“the government would have to authorise the act. That’s as it should be. That’s as it should be. That’s as it has been and you would obviously do it on the advice of the naval commander on the spot.”
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/txt/s2978032.htm?show=transcript
How else would he be in communication with the commander except through a boatphone?
ummm errrrrr errrrmmmmmm

Hell look it up yourself.

Billy B says:

08:05am | 19/12/10

nosthow - Once again - Blather! Blather! Blather!

Alfred Deakin says:

10:06am | 19/12/10

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/national/holy-asylum-seekers-tony-abbott-to-take-charge-of-boat-people-hotline/story-fn5z3z83-1225905662308

(video no longer available) - anyone who saw Abbott live will realise that the media tend to edit out any “ums and ahs” and also never showed him refusing to answer any more questions and just turning and leaving press conferences when the questions got tough - an extremely common occurrence.

But he never really explained his policy

http://www.minister.immi.gov.au/media/media-releases/2010/ce10059.htm

Though recently he has said the Coalition need to start some policy development, so maybe he will get a few policies up and running in the next three years.

MarK says:

10:56am | 19/12/10

Nice links.

NONE of them showed anything even vaguely like nosthow was alluding too.

Your point again? Boatphone was a construction of twitter.

The policy is simple. Happened under Howard. No changes are needed.

Hi Badger. Yet again your ignorance with technology oe what is available now is so lacking it is laughable.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/journalists_invent_an_anti_abbott_joke

Have a read and check the timelines.

Hate to spoil a good joke but there you go

The Badger says:

02:20pm | 19/12/10

Mark
Ahhhh Bolt the Dolt,
excellent referral.

Abbott said he would decide. If not a boatphone, what would he do, send a msg by pony express dullard

Ben81 says:

03:18pm | 19/12/10

Why do some of you insist on parroting this childish “boatphone” crap at any opportunity?  Do you need to invent some special thing called a boatphone to communicate with the navy or something, that’s the only way it can be done? 
By simple logic the government would give instructions to the Navy who would communicate with their ships by radio or satellite communications as they normally do. I just don’t see what the big deal is supposed to be here and why it would be dragged out all the time, it doesn’t make any sense.

jeffb says:

11:38pm | 19/12/10

lmao someone linked to Bolt in an effort to support their argument, thats got to be the most retarded thing I’ve ever seen.

How much blood is on Bolt’s hands for his unconditional support for the invasion of Iraq? Just where were these asylum seekers fleeing from… Iraq?...

Jayjay says:

10:10am | 19/12/10

According to Muslim Doctors with who I associate, these ‘villages’ in the mountains of Pakistan, contain over 2-3 million displaced persons, are criminally diseased, unpoliced, without schools, hospitals or infrastructure and are the hotbeds of Taliban recruitment due to the lack of hope or jobs for the young men there.
They most certainly do NOT continue the lives they lived back in Afghanistan. The land is mountainous, rocky and uncultivateable. The local tribal chiefs make sure that they are unable to participate in the surrounding subsistance economies. All that these camps are are scources of young men for their militias.
What a load of nonsense Marley, you are speaking.

marley says:

11:06am | 19/12/10

Well, let’s start with a simple fact.  There are 1.7 million Afghan refugees in Pakistan, 60% of whom live in the cities, not the refugee villages.  So, your doctor is wrong on that most basic of facts.  There are not 2 million Afghans in the villages, nor anything close to the number.

Second, yes, the villages are unsanitary and poorly policed, rather like the Pakistani villages that surround them.  But Afghan kids do have access to education, or at least they did a few years ago, when last I was there.  That’s more than can be said of many of the villages they came from in Afghanistan.

And yes, Frontier Province has always been a recruiting ground for the Taliban - from the local Pashtun population.  It’s pretty unlikely a Hazara or a Tajik Afghan is going to join up, but quite in keeping with recent history that a Pashtun Pakistani will. 

And the warlords of the Frontier Province hold no writ in downtown Islamabad, Rawalpindi, Karachi or Lahore, where the majority of Afghans reside. 

I stand by my comments.  The situation in Pakistan for refugees is not ideal and I perfectly understand why they choose to move on.  But neither is it as described by the author of the article.  The Afghans are not illegal and they do have opportunities for education and work.

Zac says:

11:25am | 19/12/10

JayJay,

If that is the case why do Muslims still practice their destructive culture and the source of all trouble and displacement - Islam?

Why don’t they migrate to Islamic nations like Saudi Arabia or Malaysia or Dubai or Qatar or Kuwait?

Sophie says:

11:39am | 21/12/10

you are right, 1.7million people as known to the UNHCR http://www.unhcr.org/4c6e55cc9.html
they, and every other agency on the ground will explain that there are hundreds of thousands more people who are unrecognised, who are living in remote locations -  every one of these individuals is considered “illegal” and has no access to health care, education and work - of course similar concerns are held for many Pakistani citizens who are living without their basic needs being met.

Ken says:

06:47am | 19/12/10

Pacific solution is the way to go , old chap

Frank says:

07:52am | 19/12/10

@ AndrewK

There are 16 cases of human rights abuse cited here, against Australia.
http://www.nswccl.org.au/issues/hr_violations.php

And hundred’s here, against the USA. 
http://www.amnestyusa.org/us-human-rights/page.do?id=1011100

When the runaways get to Australia they still want to send their kids to an Islamic school, they still are inclined to take offence if someone deconstructs their faith, and most still want regular visits to the old country.
 
I do suspect that it’s not our liberalism that’s the draw card but our economics .For a good believing Shia Iran may be much more moral and proper that any western den of iniquity – though admittedly,  not as generous with its welfare.

James1 says:

09:17am | 20/12/10

Yeah - bloody people with their “facts” and “knowledge”, using their words to confuse us.  We don’t need facts to form opinions, thank you very much.  Stuff we think is all we need for our opinions.  Why should we be distracted by “reality”?

Zac says:

11:48am | 19/12/10

Chungo Mung,

You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. Matthew 7:5

Wallaby says:

05:11pm | 19/12/10

Chungo Mung, how about a few paragraphs mate.

Your post would still be bullshit but at least it would be readable bullshit.

grumpy old man says:

08:36am | 20/12/10

Chungo,
I think you should take your own advice and shut up!
your rant is unintelligible, and therefore meaningless, unless its intent was to demonstrate your illiteracy.

marley says:

02:37pm | 19/12/10

We take around 14,000 refugees a year, one way or another.  That’s hardly enough to put Australia “at risk.”  And if you’re worried about the impact of Muslims on our society, why worry about a few desperate refugees, by no means all of whom are Muslim in the first place?  We take far more Muslims in our skilled and family migration than in our refugee programs.

Zac says:

03:53pm | 19/12/10

marley,

if you’re worried about the impact of Muslims on our society, why worry about a few desperate refugees,>>>

Yes, I am clearly worried (please read below why). No doubt about that. But why are they not heading to Islamic countries like Kuwait, Malaysia or Dubai or Saudi Arabia?

We take far more Muslims in our skilled and family migration than in our refugee programs.>>>

It doesn’t matter how they come into the country. What matters is their culture, belief system i.e, whether they believe in Australian laws, respect Australian culture (I don’t subscribe to multi-culturism), respect AUSTRALIAN WOMEN, democracy etc. The answer is NO and they resoundingly reject anything other than Islam and Sharia.

What concerns me more is the birth rate of Muslims.  Today Muslims are just 1.5% of the Australian population. However just ignoring it by just looking at the percentage of Muslim population is a huge mistake. Here is why. In U.K, which is 70% Christian and 2.8% Muslims, Mohammad is the most popular name. Why is that the case?

“The Muslim population in Britain has grown by more than 500,000 to 2.4 million in just four years, according to official research collated for The Times.

The populatiion multiplied 10 times faster than the rest of society, the research by the Office for National Statistics reveals. In the same period the number of Christians in the country fell by more than 2 million.’’

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/blogs/modern-times/the-muslim-baby-boom/20101103-17e6c.html

Jugger says:

04:34pm | 19/12/10

Mate, the only thing our country is ‘at risk’ from is hysterical red necks like yourself.  I feel sorry for you and people like you, people with brains the size of peas who live in constant fear of being over run by those nasty immigrants.

Zac says:

10:32am | 20/12/10

Secular,

Thank you. The following question probably suits a new blog, however are you sure secularism is the answer? If that is the case why is largely secular Europe, expecially U.K in such terrible state? For more clarity of thought have a look at this quote.

“Yet it WYD (world youth day) is resisted by many who seek a radical change in the status quo. They represent an aggressive “new secularism”, a philosophy much discussed by Benedict, that aspires to deny religion by shrinking it to a strictly private affair. In terms of governance, such advocates want not a traditional secular state to enshrine religious freedom, but the creation of atheism as the de facto established religion to drive real religion from the public domain.

This constitutes one of the most radical and intolerant projects in Australian political history.”

Ref: Test of Spirit, The Australian

Zac says:

10:13am | 20/12/10

Ben,

So if readers don’t say Amen to this blog or disagree with your views send them off to those re-education camps. Next time before you comment make sure to check if you are living in Communist China or Democratic Australia.