The Liberal Party is offering opposition but no alternative

gene says:

06:27am | 13/02/12

You laugh at people petrified for their jobs and livelihood all because that horrid woman LIED about no carbon tax. I dont find it funny. I dont find her remotely interested in the lives of Australians. I dont listen to her anymore ... at all. I will never trust Labor again.

nihonin says:

06:35am | 13/02/12

Interesting results in the latest Newspoll, who would be better at managing the economy (I’m reading that as which party) Julia Gillard or Tony Abbott. Have a laugh after checking it out acotrel.

George says:

07:11am | 13/02/12

“06:16 am 1521/02/121”

The ALP rah-rah squad is up early!  They must be extremely desperate.

Time will tell if Tony Abbott really has nothing to offer as a lot of the ALP fanatics are claiming.  I remember the ‘gross Me_Tooism” that KRudd rode back in 2007.

Before you know it the ALP Fanatics will be rolling our “WorkChoices’ again…!

Tedd says:

07:49am | 13/02/12

It’s not just Abbott, it’s schoolboy-in-short-pants Hockey, poodle Pyne, and all the other superficial numpties at the “fore” of the Coalition.  Behind them is a either a bunch of sycophants or individuals like Bernardi who are at arms length from reality.

No substance other than mostly childish rhetoric.

nihonin says:

08:07am | 13/02/12

Tedd states: ‘No substance other than mostly childish rhetoric.’

When the reply to any question given to a member of the government isn’t some how related to Tony Abbott, then I’ll believe Labor has ‘substance other than mostly childish rhetoric.’  Most non aligned voters are tiring of the ‘PM Tony Abbott has once again, got it wrong’ from all of the Labor MPs in government.

SD says:

08:15am | 13/02/12

Who’s losing their job because of the carbon tax? Alcoa? no. Banks? no. Miners? no. rabble, rabble, rabble….

MarkS says:

08:20am | 13/02/12

“At some stage Tony Abbott has to mount a credible case for superior economic policy”

Does he? I am fairly sure that he does not think so. He appears to be willing to go to the polls on the back of an economic policy of “We are not the other mob”.

Gloria says:

09:15am | 13/02/12

nihonin

You took the words out of my mouth! Malcolm Farr and acotrel are part of the minority that adheres to this ridiculous non working minority government. They and others should be reminded that the government needs to come up with something more substantial than ‘just blame Tony Abbott’ excuse. The vast majority of Australians don’t follow politics like some of us and only notice what is happening to them today; hike in interest rates, losing their jobs, more boats means more of our money spent on people entering our country, cutting private health rebates to justify their political goal for a surplus, waiting for increase in electricity bills when the carbon tax takes effect etc. We couldn’t give a stuff about what the Opposition is saying or doing at the moment, they are not in control of our money because they are not the government. The opposition cannot go about wasting our money at the moment and if and when they become the government come back to us with as much scrutiny as you want. The people will decide during the next election campaign whether Tony Abbott is good enough to be given a chance to our next PM.

I think the author and acotrel need to read;

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/pm-losing-battle-over-economy-according

andrew says:

09:36am | 13/02/12

George, i am a swing voter, voted ALP and Coalition at different times across our 3 levels of government.

Clearly from your comment, you are diehard fan boy of the coalition and nothing will get in the way of that.  You probably don’t even realise why you actually support this football team, opps my error, political team, opps my error again, political party.  Perhaps mummy and daddy always voted for the coalition, so you do to?

Anyway from your comment, all you did was attack the ALP and its supporters without actually putting on the table the policy of the coalition.  As a person that looks at both major parties, I want to vote for either one based on good policy, but I just don’t seem to be seeing any policy from the coalition.  Again similar to your comment, the policy is to attack the ALP but not provide an alternative policy. 

I wanted to vote for the Coalition at the last election, but like so many people i know, we were scared of Mr Tony ‘lets go back to John Howards ways’ Abbott and the lack of policy and three word catch phrases (aka stop the boats).  I want to vote for the coalition at the next Federal election, but i have the same feelings over the coalition again.  I dont want to vote for the ALP, but until the coalition step up, i think i would rather not vote at all.

Gloria says:

10:27am | 13/02/12

@ andrew

Make it easy for the Australian people and just don’t vote at all. Like Malcolm Farr, acotrel and all rusted on Labor supporters stop dragging the opposition in to justify what has proven to be the worst government in this country’s political history lead by a dishonest back stabbing PM. What you guys should be doing is trying to revive the Labor brand and what they really stand without the Sussex street bullies.

Leave Tony Abbott and the LNP to the people to decide for themselves if Abbott should be given a chance to become our next PM. At the moment we are very happy to go along with the LNP’s record of what they did when they were in power ie pay off the debt and left a surplus for the incoming Rudd Labor government to see us through the GFC but spent foolishly and wasting more of our money ever since.

The people will decide come election campaign what Tony Abbott and his team will say to get our votes! No influence from you guys!

JT says:

10:34am | 13/02/12

@andrew - why do so many Labor voters pretend to be swing voters. I do not understand this at all, are you ashamed of it? or is it some deluded attempt to appear something other than a Labor zealot?

‘‘Anyway from your comment, all you did was attack the ALP and its supporters without actually putting on the table the policy of the coalition.’‘

It is irrelevant what Coalition policy is right now; they are not the government. If an election is called tomorrow, you can argue about wanting detail but until then the only relevant policies are those of the sitting government; Labor. Either way Coalition polices can be easily found at their website.

‘‘I wanted to vote for the Coalition at the last election, but like so many people i know, we were scared of Mr Tony ‘lets go back to John Howards ways’ Abbott and the lack of policy and three word catch phrases (aka stop the boats).’‘

In other words, you had no intention of ever voting for the Coalition and no matter how badly Labor has screwed up regarding boat people you still won’t vote against them on it. And what was wrong with John Howards ways? Your opinion there was something wrong with it leads further credence to you being a Labor voter, not a swinging voter. After all he was in power for 4 elections. If you disliked his time that much, when exactly did you ever vote Coalition?.

‘‘I dont want to vote for the ALP, but until the coalition step up, i think i would rather not vote at all.’‘

On behalf of Coalition voters; I’d be happy for you not to vote.

andrew says:

11:02am | 13/02/12

Gloria

I don’t support the ALP, nor do I support the coalition.  So please refrain from using terms to imply I do support either party.

Considering at the last federal election there was a record number of donkey votes and people not voting, it should be very worrying for both sides of politics and their fan boys.  And here in lies the other problem, many people will continue to support their predetermined side of politics because that is what mummy and daddy told them to do without actually deciding for themselves what party they should actually vote for based on actual policy and not on catch phrases (which are used by both sides of politics).

Why should we give somebody a ‘chance’ to be a PM for?  Remember Gloria, we don’t actually vote for a PM, we vote for a member of parliament.  Also, why should we give somebody a ‘chance’ for the top job in this country, the representative to the rest of the world.  I realise you will return volley with a fairly predicable comment along the lines of Gillard knifed Rudd and or Abbot cant do much worse then Gillard blah blah blah.

You say that the current government is the worst government in history (proven actually).  Based on what evidence?  The only people that probably think this is disgruntled, have a whine, massive sense of entitlement Australians.  The rest of the world looking in with a neutral perspective think the government is doing a pretty good job.  Interest rates are down, inflation is steady, unemployment rates are steady, fairly low debt compared to other countries, these are things that at the last federal election the coalition stated would go up if Labor retained.  Again, you will disagree as you probably don’t want to have an impartial view of the good and the bad, you would rather listen to Abbott say this is the worst government in the history and no no no and stop the boats.

You are very happy with the past record of the coalition?  Fair enough, live in the past.  What is going to happen in the future is all that matters for me. 

As for the whole seeing us through the GFC debate, it wasn’t just the surplus that got us through the GFC.  People with a impartial view on this will tell you it was a number of things, the surplus, the mining boom, the strong banking industry, the trade with China and India, the $900 cheques etc etc.  but of course the coalition supports will always tell anybody that will listen it was only and solely the surplus, while ALP supports will tell you that it was the Rudd Government.  I am just happy we got through okay.  While people like you almost seem bitter that we did get through unscathed.

Chris L says:

11:05am | 13/02/12

Strueth JT, did you just say the Coalition don’t need policy?! I guess that may be true for some people. (I checked their website. Like most political pages it’s full of more soundbites and reasurring rhetoric but somewhat light on details.)

PS. Always siding with one party and against the other does not equate to “fair and balanced” no matter what faux news says. Being capable of seeing fault with the Coalition does not instantly equate to “Labor zealot”, it actually is a necessary part of being objective.

JT says:

11:28am | 13/02/12

@Chris L says: 12:05pm | 13/02/12
” Strueth JT, did you just say the Coalition don’t need policy?! I guess that may be true for some people. (I checked their website. Like most political pages it’s full of more soundbites and reasurring rhetoric but somewhat light on details.) ‘’

Wow you guys really do like lying. No I did not say they don’t need policy. I said whatever policy they have right not is irrelevant. They are not the government and there is no upcoming election. As for their policies on the website; I would suggest you have your eyes checked. There are multiple PDF’s detailing their policies in a myriad of areas of government.

Little Joe says:

11:31am | 13/02/12

@ Acotrel ...... 6-months after the 2011-12 Budget, Labor produced the 2011-12 MYEFO. This increased spending and increased debt.

To attain a surplus of $1.5B, $2.0B lower than in the original budget, Australia’s Debt would increase almost $30B.

The $1.5B Surplus was attained by dodgy economics including the slashing of the Continency Fund ..... a fund that is supposed to cover over spending and unexpected expenses is now budgeted to make over $800M in 2011-12 ..... and slashing the budget for National Disaster Management from $7.5B to only $700M over the next 4-years, not even half of the money promised for rebuilding Queensland (GOOD LUCK NSW!!!)

When are people going to realise that there is currently no economic management in Australia.

Scott B says:

11:47am | 13/02/12

Ummm. @gene, you decry the horror of the PM apparently lying over a price on carbon. Hate to burst your little bubble, but look at this - from the right-wing Australian: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/julia-gillards-carbon-price-promise/story-fn59niix-1225907522983. A retraction is called for, methinks.

The underlying truth is that Abbott has successfully pulled the wool over many eyes with his policy weather-vanes, his economic illiteracy and his consistent trouble with the truth - particularly with comments about the state of the economy. He has simply no vision, clue or idea and is expecting to land in the PMs chair by default. Only those who don’t bother listening, checking or thinking will allow him to do that

TommyP says:

11:57am | 13/02/12

@gene —  “people petrified for their jobs….”     
How do you think the 12,000 plus feel in Canberra?  The ones Hockey announced last Monday would be the first to go?    Oh, there job losses are a necessity, cause it is as a result of the LNP’s no ideas policy!

George says:

12:09pm | 13/02/12

@ andrew

So what if I am a die hard fan of Coalition, last I heard this was a democratic country and I am free to make choices including which political party I support. 

The trouble with people like you is that you demonise anything that is not consistent with your view.

For people like you its okay to smear and throw mud at the Federal Coalition but a mortal sin to even critique the ALP. You find it hard to see anything good about the Federal Coalition yet you join the queue of the mindless smear campaign against the party identities.

For your information I am a migrant, my Mommy and Daddy have only voted here in Australia since 2007.

You accuse me of not knowing why I support the Federal Coalition but you are, by your own admission a swinging voter?  I’ve made up my mind and my decision is firm, can you say that for yourself?

I know which political party I’ll vote for in the next Federal Election and my reasons for doing so are crystal clear.

Your notion of what is good policy is definitely different from mine as my decisions are based on the welfare of the people who depend on me as well as my welfare.

Frankly speaking a government who squanders $20B+AUD surplus and plunges this country into debt; a government formed based on lies and broken promises; and a government that has turned its back on basic human decency and word of honour doesn’t get my vote.

Now if a government like that gets your vote then you must be like them as well.

acotrel says:

12:25pm | 13/02/12

The DLP got the arse abour 50 years ago.  Why would we want another dose of that bullshit ?

TommyP says:

12:25pm | 13/02/12

@George —-    You got yur argument around the wrong way.  Just cause Abbott and Hockey and Co twist things areound to suit their beliefs at a given moment, doesn’t give you the right to do so as well.

acotrel says:

12:28pm | 13/02/12

@ Lil Joey
‘When are people going to realise that there is currently no economic management in Australia.’

There must be a lot less in the rest of the world ?

Seriously... says:

12:40pm | 13/02/12

re Scott B says:12:47pm | 13/02/12

interesting comment on that link you provided Gillard is quoted:

“I don’t rule out the possibility of legislating a Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme, a market-based mechanism,” she said of the next parliament. “I rule out a carbon tax.”

She ruled out a carbon tax… so um… what is your point?

nihonin says:

12:50pm | 13/02/12

acotrel says:

  01:25pm | 13/02/12

  The DLP got the arse abour 50 years ago.  Why would we want another dose of that bullshit ?

Thats all you’ve got in reply acotrel?  Throw in the towel mate and walk with away with some dignity

Gloria says:

01:05pm | 13/02/12

andrew again!

If you don’t support either party even after all Labor’s misdeeds and lost of credibility I say again a “donkey vote” is the one for you in the next elections. It is very simple it is a “donkey vote” for you and the likes of you! Out of anybody’s control so we don’t give a stuff but please please don’t drag Tony Abbott or the party he leads to justify your “donkey vote” because you can’t make up your mind to which major party you prefer to best guide us through these uncertain times and the disadvantages, a high dollar brings.

Voting shouldn’t be compulsory so people like yourself and Mark Latham ( former Labor leader ) shouldn’t have to worry about influencing others to a “donkey vote.” to prevent the opposition from being given the chance to replace an incompetent, Labor government. Smart people know that Julia Gillard and the minority government she leads have had to resort to dirty disgusting politics to influence those that can’t think for themselves and don’t follow politics! It is the Labor way, come out aggressive when they are down, blame Tony Abbott and everything else except their ability to govern. We are not stupid, the phrase “it takes one to know one” is what Gillard Labor is using on the Opposition mainly Tony Abbott to win over the vulnerable.

Finally for someone who has a lot to defend this rotten government it is is hard for me to imagine you will not vote Labor come next election just to stop Abbott from becoming our next PM.

Good luck and remember “it takes one to know one”

Mattb says:

01:07pm | 13/02/12

George

“You accuse me of not knowing why I support the Federal Coalition but you are, by your own admission a swinging voter?  I’ve made up my mind and my decision is firm, can you say that for yourself?”

Andrew, dont bother trying to reason with stupidity. As you can see from georgie’s comment above his “mind is made up” and his “decision is firm” and he states this as if it is some sort of positive. Like he’s above anyone who doesn’t make their mind up which party they are going to support until they reveiw the policies of each party. This unfortunately represents the complete and total ignorance of a good part of the Australian voting public (from both sides). And poor old george here probably doesn’t know how silly the statement above makes him look.

Old georgie will blindly follow the lead of his “chosen party” regardless of the effect that party’s policies have on himself, his family and his country because his mind is made up.

Georgie has given up on have a choice, that’s too hard

Going by george’s above statement, if the liberal party said before the next election they are going to “chop everyone’s left hand off if they win government”, Georgie would still vote for them because his “mind is made up” and his “decision is firm”.

Georgie’s reasons are apparently “crystal clear”. Please, do tell us all these “reasons” buddy. Is it the coalitions direct action joke plan?, what about their half baked NBN plan?, their high expense maternity leave policy that will result in higher taxes on business?. The list of crap policies put forward by the libs currently is endless. And then they say they are going to cut the carbon and mining taxes, reduce company taxes and reduce income taxes but cant provide any info on how they will fund these things and provide a surplus hence the 70 billion dollar shit sandwich they’re currently choking on.

Any ideas Georgie?, please enlighten us why we should follow with you blindly to the 2013 election because my mind isn’t made up, far from it…

Bertrand says:

01:49pm | 13/02/12

@Andrew - you are wasting your time with this mob. Like you I am a swing voter and like you I have serious concerns with the direction of the current government. Like you I have also made a rational assessment of what the Abbott led coalition is offering in the way of policy. And like you I see them as offering less in the way of constructive policy than the bunch currently in power.

Apparently this makes me a Labor operative.

For those who are saying the coalition policies are only theoretical because they aren’t in power, you need to realise that both sides’ policies need to he assessed. If you care about the deficit why are you willing to ignore the massive black hole in the Libs costings? If you are concerned that the carbon tax is going to cost you money why aren’t you concerned that the Libs plan will cost taxpayers more per tonne abated?

Oh. One final point. A donkey vote is not invalid. It is simply numbering from top to bottom.

JT says:

02:18pm | 13/02/12

@Bertrand ‘‘Apparently this makes me a Labor operative.”

Nope, the constant criticism of the Coalition and the constant defence of Labor makes you a Labor zealot. Back tracking through your comments on this site, almost every single post you have made consists of a) attacking the Coalition b) defending Labor c) promoting socialist beliefs (e.g. regulating the banks/lying by claiming minerals belong to us all etc) and d) sprouting tired old Labor spin lines (e.g. regarding Turnbull). The evidence is rather clear.

‘’ If you are concerned that the carbon tax is going to cost you money why aren’t you concerned that the Libs plan will cost taxpayers more per tonne abated?’‘

Are you really that obtuse? The Carbon tax will cost me money right now (come July 1). The Coalition policy will cost me right now absolutely nothing. When it comes time for their policy to have a chance of becoming reality I will compare it to what the Carbon tax has already cost me.

TommyP says:

02:35pm | 13/02/12

Andrew & Bertrand —-  Thank you for speaking up.  It is comforting to know that I am not the only one who feels our Current Gov is very lacking in many areas.  And that the alternative seems to be, for now at least, and even scarier option.  and like you, I also am constantly being labelled a “lefty” for questioning the direction of the Abbott led Coalition.  It is quite sad that according to those who are connected with the Right, you are wither with them, or against them.    Well, sorry, but your scare mongering, and your rhetoric, do not influence me.

andrew says:

02:54pm | 13/02/12

George

Thanks George, your rebuttal is appreciated.  You see the difference between you and I is fairly simple, you support a political party irrelevant of what they do and how the do it, I will support the best policies that are for the benefit for Australian citizens and myself.

“The trouble with people like you is that you demonise anything that is not consistent with your view.”  The term oxymoron comes to mind when I read this comment in particular when you continue to attack me based on making multiple decision all my life instead of just one.

Yet I am for some reason the bad guy in your opinion for making multiple choices in my life instead of just one?  No I don’t have a firm decision or a crystal clear idea of who to vote until I hear the policies of both parties.  Yet in your opinion this wrong.  I just don’t get it.  Please explain why it is bad not supporting a political party like they are a sports team, from the cradle to the grave?

The simple fact of the matter is that both parties are so similar on policy these days and are as bad as each other on their smear tactics and dirty politics.

“Coalition yet you join the queue of the mindless smear campaign against the party identities”  I am not running a mindless smear campaign mate.  But of course in your opinion it is okay for you to throw mud at the ALP government?  Interesting concept.  Hypocrite is a term that comes to mind.

“government that has turned its back on basic human decency” please explain this comment?  Mindless smear campaign?

“a government formed based on lies and broken promises” considering they broke many of the promises after the last election, it is not like I can write to the Electorate Office now and ask if I can cast my 2010 vote again.

JT
I actually think John Howard was one our best PMs, yes he had some flaws like all of us – probably the biggest one was hanging on too long and letting his religion beliefs getting in the way of a clear mind (like Kevin Rudd and Tony Abbott). 

But Tony Abbot needs to look to the future and not back to the ‘good old days’.  But I guess in your opinion it is bad having an opinion that we should look to the future and be better then the ‘good old days’.

Gloria

So you don’t think the Coalition resort to dirty disgusting politics?  Ever?  Blinded by the light!  I agree the ALP needs to stop blaming Tony Abbott all the time, it does get very frustrating to hear that.  The government of the day should basically ignore there is an opposition and get on the job of actually.  I think the Howard government did this pretty darn well.  Tony Abbott doesn’t have to support anything the ALP put on the table.

So you don’t think Tony Abbott going around to factories and saying your job will be gone if the Carbon or Mining Tax comes in is trying to win over the vulnerable? 

I have not made up my mind which political party I will vote for at the next federal election.  But in your opinion this very bad, considering I have no idea what the coalition policies will be or are.  While you will blindly vote for the Coalition irrelevant of their policies now or at the next federal election.  Please give me the how you want to vote card and I will blindly fill in the numbers.  Yet in your opinion, I am the bad guy.  Interesting.

Mattb and Bertrand, thanks for your support.

RyaN says:

03:03pm | 13/02/12

@Andrew, Bertrand & TommyP who all appear to be the same person, how are things going this morning at ALP headquarters?
If you are going to spew forth outright lies like our glorious lying leader then at least try to make it believable.

andrew says:

03:20pm | 13/02/12

RyaN, ohh dear.  are you 10 years old?

where have i lied?

TommyP says:

03:20pm | 13/02/12

Dearest RyaN —  Thank you for your most constructive contribution to the discussions.  For the record, we are not the same person.  Well, I am not one of them, thats for sure.  Also, I am so greatful that you allow me my DEMOCRATIC rights to make up MY mind on what I think of the current political situation, and, to express MY OPINION on that matter.  Your stupid addition re being and “ALP” something or other, I’ll just put down to your ignorance and indoctrinated brain!

PsychoHyena says:

04:03pm | 13/02/12

I would like to ask Mattb what he’s on about… George is in support of the Coalition like Mattb claims to be yet Mattb is ripping him a new one?

Economist says:

04:23pm | 13/02/12

@Andrew, Bertrand & TommyP, don’t worry I appreciate your efforts in trying the raise the bar.

I just wish the SMH archived Margo Kingston’s web diary, one of the first mainstream blogs, for linking to. I get an overwhelming feeling of deja vu, but in reverse. In those days it was the Labor and the left outraged, claiming worst government ever, with the Lib supporters sticking it to them. Now its the reverse. 

I look forward to 2014 when The Punchers will be on opposite sides and we can assess how a Liberal governments doing. I mean based on current contributions here, I expect after 6 months in office the Liberals will produce a miracle economy with unemployment below 4.5%, inflation below 3%, the debt paid off with full paid parental leave and an army of 15000 greenies planting trees, no carbon tax, no mining tax, in fact no taxes, no public service, oh and for good measure world peace. 

In all serious I do have to say that at time the quality of debate is below par. Contributors really need to take into account context when analysing governments and economics, but hey I know lecturing about it isn’t going to improve it. Andrew, Bertrand & TommyP, just keep incorporating fact and analysis and putting forward your opinions as you see it and perhaps others will follow. But even this rant is simply sucking eggs.

RyaN says:

04:44pm | 13/02/12

@Andrew, Bertrand & TommyP: reply times give you away. Nice try though!

maria says:

05:14pm | 13/02/12

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha ! - So the penny has finally dropped that he has nothing t o offer ?

As long as true democracy a la Switzerland will be denied to the australian people nothing will change, shit happens, shit will happen and shit will keep happening and Tony knows he is just a Jekyll and Hyde personality with only one aim ABSOLUTE POWER Ha Ha Ha Ha .

JT says:

05:32pm | 13/02/12

@andrew ‘‘I actually think John Howard was one our best PMs, yes he had some flaws like all of us – probably the biggest one was hanging on too long and letting his religion beliefs getting in the way of a clear mind (like Kevin Rudd and Tony Abbott).  ‘’

You really are tying yourself in knots trying to appear as a swinging voter andrew. What religious beliefs of Howards got in the way of a clear mind? Hell if you want religious you need only look at Rudd going to church every Sunday and doing doorstop interviews outside the church. That to me is not evidence of a clear mind.

‘‘But Tony Abbot needs to look to the future and not back to the ‘good old days’.  But I guess in your opinion it is bad having an opinion that we should look to the future and be better then the ‘good old days’.’‘

You’re not even making sense here. The good old days were a little on 5 years ago, secondly those good old days were the result of competent government. Why on earth is it bad to desire the return of such days? Look to the future is nothing but meaningless dribble. Of course we look to the future, there is no other way to go but that does not dismiss the desire to in the future see the return of competent and stable government - neither of which Labor has provided in their 1 1/2 terms.

Tony says:

05:36pm | 13/02/12

Ha, ha, ha, ha frankly anything and anyone would have to be better than this mob. The government can’t cobble together a credible policy on anything.

When the times is ripe the Coalition will have what it needs. In the meantime all Tony has to do is watch Labor rip itself to bits. Don’t distract them by giving them something to focus on when they are devouring each other!

Dr Ben Dover says:

06:24pm | 13/02/12

‘Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha ! - So the penny has finally dropped that he has nothing t o offer ?

As long as true democracy a la Switzerland will be denied to the australian people nothing will change, shit happens, shit will happen and shit will keep happening and Tony knows he is just a Jekyll and Hyde personality with only one aim ABSOLUTE POWER Ha Ha Ha Ha . ‘

Now Julia, take your medication and lie down.

Chris L says:

06:25pm | 13/02/12

Two comments posted at precisely 4:20pm. Must be one person typing simultaneously on two computers!

Bertrand says:

07:01pm | 13/02/12

@JT - @JT - Mate, you don’t get it do you? My contributions on this site are for or against specific policy issues, not one political party over the other.

I have been very clear where I am coming from with regards to my contributions on policy debates. I am socially progressive and believe in a controlled market economy with a social safety net.  I believe we want a strong economy is so that all who participate in it benefit from it. If this makes me a socialist, then I guess you would need to call Howard and Abbott socialists as well, as they both also believe in a similar economic model and desire similar outcomes.

Who I choose to vote for at an election is based on which party offers policies that best achieve these aims.

With that in mind, my contributions on this site regarding whatever topic or policy is up for debate are based on my assessment of which party best meets my economic and social values. To me, at this stage, Labor’s policies do this better than the Liberals, so obviously more of my contributions are going to be arguing in favour of Labor policy. Again, this doesn’t make me a Labor hack, it makes me someone who has arrived at their conclusion by critically analysing both sets of policies. The fact that I often arrive at different conclusions than someone who uncritically accepts everything from one side, and who refuses to see any positives from the other side says more about your partisanship than mine.

Some examples of my values and their relationship to policy:

I believe in solid fiscal discipline, but also see the need for the government to sometimes use debt to stimulate growth. I believe that Labor’s policy reactions to the GFC mostly satisfied this, but that there was far too much waste and too much poorly implemented policy. On the other hand, when I consider the un-costed promises being made by Abbott, and the undisclosed but certainly multi tens of billion dollar black hole in his policy platform, I see him as the economically riskier option.

When I look at the carbon debate, I see Labor’s market mechanism as more fitting with my belief in a controlled market. The coalition’s direct action policy is far far closer to a socialist model. Why don’t you have a problem with this centralised socialist model?

When I look at the parties’ paid parental schemes, I see the Liberal’s as overly generous; Abbott plans to fund it by increasing company tax rates. Why are you not criticising this as socialism?

When I look at the mining tax, I see a policy that looks to the future after the boom has ended and ensures that all Australians have adequately benefitted from our mineral resources (and yes, they do belong to all of us, no matter what you might argue).  An examination of other countries and their mining booms has shown that unless the profits of the boom are properly invested for all people, the country faces serious economic problems at the end of the boom. Some of the money from the tax will be used to reduce tax rates in the struggling areas of our economy. Likewise, if some of the tax is used to create a sovereign wealth fund with a heavy focus on overseas investment, this would help ease the pressure on our dollar and protect our other industries. To me it is a good policy. 

You cannot use the excuse that Abbott’s policies are not yet able to be realised and are therefore not worth debating.  The debate we are having is about who we would vote for if an election were held tomorrow. The coalition’s policies deserve to be examined and debated on their merits, just as Labor’s do.

So, yes, on most policy debates on here I am in support of Labor Party’s policies. I have never claimed otherwise. In previous elections I have gone the other way. I voted against Latham as I saw some of his policies, such as Medicare Gold and the stripping of private school funding, as reckless. I also saw him as lacking a suitable temperament for PM. He was rash and too much of a populist. The politician who most resembles him in temperament in Abbott – another reason I find it difficult to support a Liberal party under him. I would find it very difficult to vote in a Prime Minister who is on the record mocking economic and scientific experts because their analysis doesn’t suit his populist rhetoric.

However, be honest when you consider my contributions on this site. I criticised Malcolm Farr for his dishonest assessment of Howard’s Prime Ministership and argued that Howard was a good leader who didn’t deserve most of Farr’s criticism. I constantly criticise Labor for its poor delivery of policy and Gillard for her lack of personal integrity. My comments on banking regulation are less extreme than Joe Hockey’s. Don’t try to pretend I have been all one sided.

andrew says:

08:11pm | 13/02/12

RyaN, it is called the internet little one.  people from all around the world can actually post comments at the time.  if you are incapable of understanding this fairly simple concept, perhaps you should turn off your computer.

JT says:

10:21pm | 13/02/12

@Bertrand

“When I look at the mining tax, I see a policy that looks to the future after the boom has ended and ensures that all Australians have adequately benefitted from our mineral resources (and yes, they do belong to all of us, no matter what you might argue). “

See again you just pile on the evidence of being a Labor hack and you do so by again lying. The mineral resources do not belong to us all, it is not a matter of belief, it is the truth and by continually stating otherwise you are lying.

“An examination of other countries and their mining booms has shown that unless the profits of the boom are properly invested for all people, the country faces serious economic problems at the end of the boom. Some of the money from the tax will be used to reduce tax rates in the struggling areas of our economy. “

You cannot tax yourself into prosperity. It is rather scary you do not understand something so basic.

“You cannot use the excuse that Abbott’s policies are not yet able to be realised and are therefore not worth debating.”

Yes I can because they currently are not in a position to be implemented. There is no election pending, there is no campaign going, the opposition is completely powerless to affect change in Australia. Labor is not, they are the government. What they do today matters. I’m happy to debate Coalition policy when it matters which is currently 2013.

“So, yes, on most policy debates on here I am in support of Labor Party’s policies. I have never claimed otherwise. “

Again with the lies. You have written several times that you are not a Labor hack yet here you are claiming that you always made it clear you support Labor party policies. If that is so why the constant attempts to appear balanced when you are no more balanced regarding Labor than any other of the usual suspects.

“In previous elections I have gone the other way. I voted against Latham as I saw some of his policies, such as Medicare Gold. I would find it very difficult to vote in a Prime Minister who is on the record mocking economic and scientific experts because their analysis doesn’t suit his populist rhetoric.”

Medicare gold was created by Julia Gillard, the current PM and leader of the Labor party which you support. On the record mocking economic and scientific experts? You mean where he correctly points out much of the IPCCs data is shall we say lacking.
“However, be honest when you consider my contributions on this site. Don’t try to pretend I have been all one sided.”

Yes you have and I offer no criticism of your criticism of Labor. My point as it has always been is you sprout Labors dogma but attempt to pretend you are something other than what you are. I take issue with that, just man up and admit you argue with the same rose coloured glasses as the other side does. It seems to be a pattern for Labor hacks, always pretending to be something they’re not.

Christian Real says:

04:19am | 14/02/12

Julia Gillard has said all along that she would introduce a price on carbon, Tony Abbott has said all along it’s a carbon tax,Tony Abbott is the only one that has lied .
Abbott’s infamous phrase"Don’t believe everything I say”, just may come back to haunt him yet

Bertrand says:

07:14pm | 14/02/12

@JT - probably too late for you to see my reply, but I’m sorry, that is one of the most vacuous posts I have ever seen on this site and I feel it is deserving of a rebuttal. It certainly doesn’t deserve to sit unopposed.

“The mineral resources do not belong to us all, it is not a matter of belief, it is the truth and by continually stating otherwise you are lying.”

Most minerals being mined are found on sovereign land. Sovereign land belongs to Australia. Australia is us. Who do the minerals currently lying in the ground on sovereign land belong to? The foreign investors who operate the majority of Australian mines? They certainly deserve to profit from realising these resources’ potential, but until they are dug up, those minerals are Australia’s. I’m sorry, but to argue that Australia’s natural resources belong to anyone but Australia is simply absurd. Seriously, who do the minerals sitting in our soil belong to if not us? I’m really intrigued who you think our natural resources belong to if not us.

“You cannot tax yourself into prosperity.”

Mineral resources are non-renewable… once they are gone, they are gone. The majority of our mines are foreign owned and the profits are going overseas. You can’t sell your non-renewable resources at bargain basement prices and expect to see long term benefits. Once the boom is over we will want to make damned sure we are in the financial position to keep ourselves going. Have a look at the Norwegians. They were quick to realise that long term benefits from mining come from ensuring that the nation gets a fair share of the profits from their mining sector and that these profits are invested for the good of all people in the nation.

Yet in Australia, as mineral prices have risen, the tax percentage we receive has fallen.  Since the beginning of this century, the total tax and royalties received from the miners as a share of their profits has fallen from close to 40% to below 20%. Was Howard guilty of taxing us into economic misery? Was he a socialist who was ripping off the miners?

It seems reasonable, that Australia receives a fair share of the profits from resources that belong to it. Using this share to lower tax rates in other areas of the economy that need stimulating, and investing some of it overseas (thus increasing our national income and putting deflationary pressure on our dollar) helps our economy. It helps ensure we aren’t totally reliant on a once-in-a-generation boom in demand for non-renewable resources.

Remember, the mining tax wasn’t a Labor idea. It came from the Treasury. That is, taxation and economic experts see it as a responsible policy. The Libs decided to turn it into a partisan issue, not Labor. When Howard was opposition leader in the 80s he was smart enough to know good policy when he saw it. That’s why he supported the economic reforms put in place by Hawke and Keating. He was able to move past the partisanship to ensure that Australia got the best possible outcomes. The same cannot be said for the current Liberal leader, who is nothing but a populist who uses fear to promote himself.

You argue that it is ok to completely ignore the failings in opposition policy because they aren’t in government, even though they are aiming to be the alternative government. If you are putting your hand up for the job, you need to be willing to have your resume examined. To me it says a lot about your entire argument that you simply refuse to discuss bad Liberal policy in your responses. You keep harping on about Labor economic mismanagement and socialist policies, but when I raise the valid point that some of the Liberal policies are actually worse in these areas, you simply choose not to respond to those points. In 2013 Abbott will almost certainly be PM. Those policies will become reality. They deserve to be debated on their merits.

In response to my statement: “Don’t try to pretend I have been all one sided.” you said,

“Yes you have and I offer no criticism of your criticism of Labor.”

Um.. that makes no sense…. So, according to you, I’ve been all one sided even though you openly acknowledge that I make criticisms of Labor, because you make the point of saying you don’t criticise my criticisms of Labor. Are you really incapable of seeing that means I’m not one-sided?

Seriously, it’s like trying to reason with my 2 year old when they’re in the middle of a tantrum.

TimB says:

07:03am | 13/02/12

Shane, the permits allow the business holding them to emit X amount of CO2. Show me where Abbott is planning on taking away that right.

Abbott only has to compensate business if the government reaquires the permits under compulsory acquisition. Reducing the monetary value of the permit is completely different from that.

If they become worthless by any means, then businesses don’t get compensated for squat. A big deal is made about how this is supposed to be a market based mechanism. So what happens when the market drops out like in Europe? ( http://www.thegwpf.org/international-news/4934-warning-over-dead-eu-carbon-market.html ). Is the government expected to step in for all these businesses holding worthless permits? No.

Shane From Melbourne says:

07:42am | 13/02/12

@TimB- I’d like to see Tony Abbott tell business to their face that any carbon permit that business is required to purchase under current government legislation is completely worthless because an Abbott government decided to change the rules. Sorry, the government has just declared your asset worth zilch. It is telling that Abbott hasn’t detailed just exactly how he is going to do this carbon tax rollback that he has staked his political reputation upon…...

Super D says:

08:26am | 13/02/12

@ Shane. Politically speaking, the higher the cost the better. The ALP will wear every cent and carry it around their necks as a millstone for a generation. Of course for the sake of the nations finances it’s better if the cost is lower.

The ALP can never win an argument regarding the cost of undoing the carbon tax but gee I hope they try.

TimB says:

08:28am | 13/02/12

It won’t be ‘worthless’ Shane. It will still allow them to emit X amounts of CO2. It just won’t have a monetary value. Try and wrap your head around the concept.

With a ‘market based mechanism’, having your permit bottom out to zero is a risk you take. And business should see this one coming from a mile off.

Tom says:

08:57am | 13/02/12

So Shane, your saying that Labor’s damage is so permanent that Abbott won’t be able to fix it? Hardly a point worth bragging about.

Shane From Melbourne says:

09:00am | 13/02/12

@TimB- Oh I’ve wrapped my head around the concept. I’m just waiting for the class action in the Federal Court suing the Abbott Government for deprivation of property. Interesting constitutional case there. We are not talking about a market based mechanism making a carbon permit worthless. We are talking about deliberate government action. Abbott is going to make a lot of lawyers happy…..

Peter says:

09:03am | 13/02/12

“It won’t be ‘worthless’ Shane. It will still allow them to emit X amounts of CO2. It just won’t have a monetary value.  Try and wrap your head around the concept.”

Lol, that is about the funniest thing ever written in the comments section of The Punch!  Standout comment of the week by a long shot.  Yes, “wrap your head around the concept” Shane - it’s not worthless, just not worth any money.  Like true love, or your Grandma’s kisses.  Hahaha!

Number Cruncher says:

09:17am | 13/02/12

Companeis are not required to obtain carbon permits until 2015 when the tax sqitches to a supposed market based mechanism.  If no one buys a permit befoer this time, there will be no need to compensate.  It would be interesting to see just how many corporations will fork out $ for carbon tax and permits in 1 year.  Bit of a double whammy there.  In all likelihood, corporations will pay carbon tax for 1 year and we will see the whole wealth re-distribution scheme unwaound the following year.  That is, unless Craig Thomson brings down this whole sorry messy next month.

TimB says:

09:50am | 13/02/12

“Oh I’ve wrapped my head around the concept”

No you apparently haven’t. Because if you had, you wouldn’t have followed up with this:

“I’m just waiting for the class action in the Federal Court suing the Abbott Government for deprivation of property “

They haven’t been deprived of property. They still have the permit to emit X amount of CO2. That is what they have bought and that is not being taken away from them.

@ Peter, you only find this funny because your small mind clearly cannot comprehend the concept of ‘worth’ as being seperate from the concept of ‘monetary value’.

Peter says:

10:18am | 13/02/12

@TimB - of course I do.  That’s why I helped you out with some more examples!  Like True Love.  Or Grandmother’s kisses.  See?  Taking my dog for a walk on a fine spring day.  A good poo.  Try selling that on the open market!  You’re so right TimB.  So right.

TimB says:

10:45am | 13/02/12

It’s worth the right to emit X amount of CO2 gas Peter. Try to keep up.

sandra says:

11:28am | 13/02/12

Hey Shane—just ONCE can you have some facts before your rants!!! Abbott has made very clear over and over on TV and in print that all busines should know that all permits and carbon trading agreements( money making spins) will be useless once the carbon tax is gone!!!!! he topld them not to invest until after an election—he told them to their faces—
Mr Farr—we watched you on the Labor love boat Sunday morning—the bias si so obvious that it should lbe reviewed. The ABC belongs to all of us mate!!!! the arrogence you all exhibit while being the main advertising arm for labor ios breathtaking!!!

sandra says:

11:28am | 13/02/12

Hey Shane—just ONCE can you have some facts before your rants!!! Abbott has made very clear over and over on TV and in print that all busines should know that all permits and carbon trading agreements( money making spins) will be useless once the carbon tax is gone!!!!! he topld them not to invest until after an election—he told them to their faces—
Mr Farr—we watched you on the Labor love boat Sunday morning—the bias si so obvious that it should lbe reviewed. The ABC belongs to all of us mate!!!! the arrogence you all exhibit while being the main advertising arm for labor ios breathtaking!!!

Peter says:

12:15pm | 13/02/12

@TimB, seriously, the value of the right to emit x amount of Carbon -  which was worth something before - would be rendered worthless to the company which was required to buy them.  The difference, they would arguee, is their damages and that is the amount they would sue for in addition to consequential damages which they incurred in reliance on the government’s actions and having to adjust their businesses accordingly.

@Sandra, you seem to think that with a new government, all bets are off.  Doesn’t work that way.  The Federal Government is the same entity regardless of whether it is Gillard or Abbott at the helm and the right of action would be against them, not the Libs or Labor.  And besides, Abbott’s decleration of what he would or would not do if he were elected is close to meaningless, let alone bankable.  The lawyers would swipe that lame argument away in a flick.

TimB says:

12:52pm | 13/02/12

No Peter. You are wrong. As we are constantly told, this is a market based mechanism.

Look at Europe. The link that I posted. Their market has bottomed out. They could sell those permits there and get practically bugger all for it.

If someone buys shares for $5 each do they get to have a cry and sue people when the value drops to 5 cents? Of course not. They still have the voting right the share confers to them. that is the inherint value of the share that cannot be taken away.

In exactly the same way, the right that the business purchases, the right to emit X amount of CO2 remains with the company. Tony will not be taking away that right, therefore the government does not have to provide compensation.

I don’t know how many times I have to explain this to you until it sinks in, but let’s try one last analogy:

If you’re dumb enough to buy a house near a planned airport, and then attempt to sell it at a later date once the airport is up and running (with all the attendant noise), you CANNOT sue the government for the massive fall in your house price. You still have a house. It still has value as a place to live. Sucks to be you if you want to sell it for decent coin though.

Number Cruncher says:

01:19pm | 13/02/12

@ TimB, you’re wasting your breath.  Peter demonstrated his understanding of market forces last week when he thought it was baloney that government spending could have an effect on interest rates.

Peter says:

01:49pm | 13/02/12

TimB, surely you can see the difference between a situation where a speculator buys a house of his own free will and takes a loss vs a company which is required by government to purchase a credit as part of an artifical market created by the same government.  And surely you see the difference between the loss in value of a credit because of market fluctuations vs loss of the entire value of a credit because of discontinuation of the market in it’s entirety?

“In exactly the same way, the right that the business purchases, the right to emit X amount of CO2 remains with the company. Tony will not be taking away that right, therefore the government does not have to provide compensation.”

Now, this is where I think you’ve gone wrong.  The “right” is a right which only exists under the carbon scheme.  If you remove the scheme, you remove the rights.  No scheme.  No rights.  Get it?  It’s not like Europe, at all.

Peter says:

01:54pm | 13/02/12

@Number Cruncher - don’t recall saying that.  I recall pointing out that Hockey has no clue if he thinks government borrowing is the reason why the RBA did not choose to lower the rates.  But thanks for the following.

TimB says:

02:22pm | 13/02/12

Peter your point would hold if and ONLY if, the government was buying (forcibly or otherwise) these permits back off the buyers for $0.

What Abbott plans to do ( I assume) is to simply change the value of the permits the government holds to $0. No longer will the government charge businesses money for these permits. They can buy them for free! Whoop!

Businesses who bought the stupidly expensive permits under the Gillard regime (despite knowing about Abbotts plans and the likelyhood of him winning the next election) can sell them to anyone willing to pay $23/tonne or more- Assuming they can find anyone stupid enough to do so. Doubt they will.

What needs to be made clear is this: The government won’t fix the price for the entire permit market at zero. They’ll fix *their own selling price* at zero. The rest of the market can do what it likes. The point is there will NOT be a cost to business to buy CO2 permits from the government once Abbott makes changes.
And there’s bugger all business can legally do about it. Abbott won’t take away their permit, nor is he stopping the permit holders from looking for a stupid buyer. There will be zero need to compensate businesses.

Peter says:

02:56pm | 13/02/12

@TimB - honestly can’t expect to roll back something like that without compensating the businesses who paid you for the credits.  It would be a windfall.  I think what will probably happen is that they will roll it back in some fashion but compensate businesses with some kind of tax credit(s).  Probably won’t complain cause now they don’t have to pay the tax going forward.

TimB says:

03:34pm | 13/02/12

Again for the last time Peter:

“honestly can’t expect to roll back something like that without compensating the businesses who paid you for the credits”

They’re not taking anything from the business therefore there is no need for compensation. It’s that simple.

Yuri says:

06:30pm | 13/02/12

I still don’t see how this is an issue. If there’s no trading scheme doesn’t come into effect until 2015 (if labor are still in government), companies won’t be selling the permits anyway. They will only buy them from the government so they can emit X tonnes of CO2. Once they have the permits, the dollar value is essentially zero because they can’t on-sell them (or at least not until 2015).

jeremy says:

08:24pm | 13/02/12

Abbott didn’t cause the cabon tax.  Gillard did so Shane blameALP all Abbott is doing is what the people want ! Gillard sold us out!

Polly says:

08:20am | 13/02/12

Hear hear Against the Man.
The Opposition does not have to give out their policies yet.
The ball is in Gillard’s court.

Dan says:

08:53am | 13/02/12

Against the Man, Polly…the ball is squarely in Abbott’s court. Or at least, for our sakes, it really should be.

The guy is a heart-attack away from being Prime Minister. At the latest, he’ll be PM by 2013. Aren’t you even moderately curious as to how he’d do the job?

How does he plan to unwind the carbon tax, a task many say is simply impossible? Will he remove the means-test to private health insurance? And if so, how will he cover the billion-dollar hit to the budget?

The Coalition will soon take office, perhaps rightfully so. But I for one am concerned at how little we know, about what they have planned.

Shooter says:

09:08am | 13/02/12

Against the Man do you think politicians care about you? Do you think Tony or Julia gets up every morning and thinks about you, cares what your thinking and wishing?

Rick says:

09:19am | 13/02/12

@AtM

John Howard and friends are the worst Government in Australian history.

The righteous one says:

09:35am | 13/02/12

On a 2-party preferred basis

50.12% of Australians voted for Julia Gillard & Labor
49.88% of Australians voted for Tony Abbott & the Liberals

The Liberals are unhappy to see the democratic wishes of the Australian people carried out
& have been moaning & trying to stuff up the running of Parliament ever since.
ABBOT NO NO NO NO NO

The ones howling the loudest are the lunatic fringe of the Liberal Party associated with the Convoy of Crackpots.

Tony Abbott drove one of their trucks .
Barnaby Joyce was a speaker at the rally.
Mick Pattel was the organiser of the Convoy of No Confidence & he is a Liberal Party candidate in the upcoming Queensland state election.
snouts in the trough

TommyP says:

12:02pm | 13/02/12

@The righteous ——  And, do you think that by giving these rightwing half wits the FACTS, they will actually grow some intelligence?????

Little Joe says:

12:33pm | 13/02/12

@ TommyP ...... These are the facts

6-months after the 2011-12 Budget, Labor produced the 2011-12 MYEFO. This increased spending and increased debt.

To attain a surplus of $1.5B, $2.0B lower than in the original budget, Australia’s Debt would increase almost $30B.

The $1.5B Surplus was attained by dodgy economics including the slashing of the Continency Fund ..... a fund that is supposed to cover over spending and unexpected expenses is now budgeted to make over $800M in 2011-12 ..... and slashing the budget for National Disaster Management from $7.5B to only $700M over the next 4-years, not even half of the money promised for rebuilding Queensland (GOOD LUCK NSW!!!)

When are people going to realise that there is currently no economic management in Australia.

TommyP says:

02:48pm | 13/02/12

Thank you Little Joe.  But, I don’t need you to cutnpaste from the “NeoCon Book Of Lines…”  Your assertion that these are “dodgy economic figures”, implying that the UNCOSTED and UNSUBSTANTIATED figures from the LNP are trustworthy tells me enough about your understanding of our current Economic Standing.  Your boss in the Blog Room at Party HQ will be pleased with your efforts.

Polly says:

02:53pm | 13/02/12

Dan, you say the ball is squarely in Abbott’s court. Or at least, for our sakes, it really should be.
It will be when Tony Abbott wins the next election but he will have a huge mess to clean up after the worst Labor government in Australia’s history.
Even Gough Whitlam was better than this Union Labor Green menace.
We don’t need to worry how an Abbott government will handle the reigns because the Liberals have a long proven history of competent financial management. You can rest assured they won’t be wasting $50 billion on broadband technology that the rest of the world is not adopting.  They won’t be throwing away $billions on pink bats or useless school sheds. They won’t be taxing the very industry that has kept Australia relatively immune from the WFC.  They won’t be increasing the next to useless public service with more seat warmers. Labor, traditionally are pathetic at managing anything especially money……. Anyone with half a brain knows that and we are all living through this now.  What Labor has always been very adept at is spin and lies to cover their mistakes.  In regard to getting rid of the Carbon tax………. anything that has been legislated for can be dumped by overriding legislation…….difficult and expensive …….oh yes, because labor has done their utmost to make life difficult for any new government to unravel any of their pet projects …..They have turned it into an art form. 

Past and recent history tells us that you would need to be a complete fool to vote for labor or the greens ever again. Of course some voters are so dumb they would find it difficult to find their way home in the dark.

Meanwhile, Gillard is in destructive mode with the carbon dioxide tax, the mining tax and union industrial domination sending manufacturing off-shore.

Nafe says:

03:35pm | 13/02/12

Dan - If you really want to know what Abbott will be like as PM, buy his book Battlelines, Great read and great plan for the future.

Pingu says:

03:45pm | 13/02/12

ATM I agree the Gillard Fail machine is in high gear and their dingaling supporters just dont realise it!

Jason says:

06:26pm | 13/02/12

POLLY the Opposition don’t have any policies to give out only slogans and aspirational thoughts.  How wonderful that Abbot could become the PM and people just like you will wonder what hit them.  I wish you luck with keeping your job.  I don’t have a worry because I am a self funded retiree.

Little Joe says:

09:33am | 14/02/12

TommyP says:03:48pm | 13/02/12

Unfortunately, I do need you to cut-n-paste ...... I have have to say it again and again and again ...... and will continue to repeat myself until people start reading the budget, not regurgitating Labor Rhetoric and worthless comments of “opinion journalism”

All the figures that I have quoted are directly from the 2011-12 Budget and 2011-12 MYEFO.

I am not a Liberal, LNP nor Labor Party Member and your ascertian that I am is simply a man clutching at straws

In a failing budget that was not designed to work, but to win an election, Swan increases National Debt by 30% using a worthless economic structure that devoid of any substance ...... then proceeds to smile and pat himself on the back. He can do this because he knows that most journalists are too lazy to actually do some research and report the white-anting of the Australian Economy

Anyway ..... after the leaks about the knifing of Rudd ..... I will be very surprised if she is still PM by the relaes of the next budget.

JennyF says:

06:26am | 13/02/12

I agree. Who is in Government by the way? The one we have will create a lot more headaches before we come to an election, I feel. Why perpetuate the ‘Dr No’ theory when it is a beat up?  You could just as well say Gillard is ‘Ms No’ for her refusal to consider alternatives. There is so much on the Government’s plate that needs attention and commentators should be focusing more on that than the Opposition at this point in time, after all this is what is affecting the public in the here and now.

nihonin says:

06:45am | 13/02/12

Since the election in 2007, I’ll never expect any party in opposition to release policy and its costings, until at least one week out from the election date.  Labor set the rules on that one, so to constantly hear the rusties bleat ‘where are the Liberals policies’, is quite laughable ,your party set the bar low, but when you can’t wiggle under it, you want it raised lol.

PsychoHyena says:

08:18am | 13/02/12

Actually I find it interesting, if Labor is doing such a poor job then why is Abbott supporting the majority of their legislation?

a) He wants to see the Labor fail and he’ll take the country down with him.
b) He’s lying when he says Labor is failing.
c) He has no idea what he’s agreeing to.

Another question: Why do people keep referring to Labor as ALP when that is actually the acronym of the Australian Liberal Party?

Shing-a-ling says:

08:37am | 13/02/12

Multiple sources close to Abbott and inside the Liberal party (who cannot be named) have revealed that Abbott has selected a new theme song for a new year.
He wanted something that pretty much summed up his time as opposition leader and rolled all his accomplishments intro easy to understand words for the masses.
After much consideration he settled on “Nobody But Me” by The Human Beinz

here is his favourite verse for you to ponder.

No no no no no no no no no
No no no no no no no no
No no no no no no no no
No no no no no

Nobody can do
the skate
Like I do

nihonin says:

08:44am | 13/02/12

‘Another question: Why do people keep referring to Labor as ALP when that is actually the acronym of the Australian Liberal Party?’

PsychoHyena, nice try, I remember seeing, before Kevin Rudd was elected, on pretty much every Labor election sign, the letters ALP proudly displayed, go ask the party, or better yet your fellow party members.

Mouse says:

09:30am | 13/02/12

PsychoHyena, I think you will find it is the Liberal Party of Australia not the Australian Liberal Party. ALP has always been the Australian Labor Party. Same as the LNP is the Liberal National Party of Queensland not the Coalition.  :o)

PsychoHyena says:

11:28am | 13/02/12

@Mouse, gotcha I must admit it was a few years ago that I saw the Liberal flag over the ALP acronym.

@nihonin, my question was legitimate. I’m sorry that you are so cynical you can’t see an honest question from the fake. I notice however that you refused to answer my question re Tony Abbott supporting Labor’s legislation. A bit too advanced for you perhaps?

nihonin says:

12:57pm | 13/02/12

‘A bit too advanced for you perhaps? ‘

There it is eh, PsychoHyena, insult the person, when you’ve nothing left.  Good show, you’ve earnt your 30 pieces of silver.  Troll

Boogaloo says:

01:14pm | 13/02/12

@Shing-a-ling

You know that song is about how awesome one person is and said person ‘starting the party’ right?

I’d take it up if I was a pollie too.

And it was COVERED by The Human Beinz, but is actually an Isley Brothers song. Talk about a fail.

Weary says:

01:36pm | 16/02/12

PsychoHyena - I notice you leave comments like “do you ever actually come up with a decent counter argument or do you just wander around cluelessly?” for other people, yet expect sympathy and tolerance when you leave a comment that exposes your rampant ignorance.  Are you hoping the rubbish you’re making up will trick us and we’ll all be dumbed down to your level?  And you then imply that you’re ramblings are too advanced?  That level of delusion is just sad.
By your own admission you haven’t paid attention to politicis in YEARS, so go back to reading Cosmo or Hit Songwords or whatever stupid publication you and your kind subscribe to and let the adults have a conversation.

Brian Taylor says:

06:36am | 13/02/12

nah, not a good news week, a GREAT news week lol

Sherlock says:

06:42am | 13/02/12

Yet apparently Gillard wants to bring the focus back to economic management. I’m sure Abbott laughed hysterically when he heard that one as did many other Australians.

“Bring it on” says Abbott and who can blame him? The ALP has had one economic disaster after another. A litany of failed policies and rorted schemes.. The opposition will have no end of material to bash Gillard and co over the head with

Martin says:

08:03am | 13/02/12

But why didn’t The Australian do a comparison to the last time this question was asked in October 2011?

That show the coalition leading 47-28.

So this poll actually shows Labor gaining on the coalition in economic management.

Super D says:

08:28am | 13/02/12

Tony’s day has been made.

Muddy Waters of OZ Politics says:

09:34am | 13/02/12

Gillard is *still* the preferred PM over Abbott.

This says more about Abbott than it does about Gillard.

TommyP says:

03:28pm | 13/02/12

Results from NEWSPOL= A News Ltd Company = Coalition’s Propaganda Division.  So, the credibility????????    Where exactly was I meant to find it??????    Or, is it just another tool by News Ltd, to get you right wing gronks frothing at the mouth…..    Gee, you “inteligent” lot sure don’t need too much encouragment to show your ignorance.

Ron E Coote says:

06:37am | 13/02/12

Nice work, Sherlock.
The Carbon Tax epitomises all that is wrong with this government.
From the lie that saw it put into parliament, to the sandbagging of an Aluminium business that the tax was supposed to put out of business.
Words cannot adequately express the utter hypocrisy and incompetence proudly displayed by Gillard as she opines about her “Cleeeen inergy fyuthcha.”

JL says:

08:04am | 13/02/12

Some of us worry because Abbott is in eternal election mode. He has never wanted to wait full term, That is beyond obvious. hence we get a never ending election campaign. So blame him.

The carbon tax is the cheapest method to reach the targets, cheaper than Abbotts, so economically the least painfull. If the media had scrutinised Liberal policy on carbon emissions we would collectively realise Liberal tax is the one we will be paying for handouts to the polluters, the carbon tax however polluters pay and we get compensation so if we wish, we can reduce power and spend that money on something bettter.

So you may yell carbon tax at every opportunity wihtout even bothering to explain opposition policy on carbon emissions, but your indulgence in spin may well hurt more families than it helps.

SimonTigey says:

08:31am | 13/02/12

JL, the carbon tax is not the cheapest method to reach targets. In fact for the consumer it’s by far the most expensive and onerous. The only people it’s cheap for are governments who don’t have to pay a cent.

Anyway, it’s now coming to light that carbon dioxide is not a problem at all, there is no warming, in fact there is no evidence at all, and the earth is actually in a cooling phase. The whole reason for a carbon tax is crumbling apart and governments around the world are running away from ETS’s or carbon tax as fast as they can!!!

JL says:

08:51am | 13/02/12

Simon

Sorry you are wrong. Liberal policy costed at the very least 3 times more expensive, and that is for the taxpayer to bear.

Both parties agree in regard to climate science so that is non issue.

Lordy lordy says:

09:30am | 13/02/12

@SimonTigey

Well done simon
you have bought the bullshit

SimonTigey says:

09:39am | 13/02/12

JL, coalition policy is to spend about $1billion per years working with industry to reduce emissions, there is no cost to the consumer because this is paid for out of the budget through savings.

Gillard’s carbon tax actually costs the budget around $4billion, this is their own figures. So Gillard’s carbon tax hits the budget for around $4billion plus consumers are hit with rising energy costs. It’s a no brainer mate!!

Gillard made a huge blunder saying yes to Bob Brown’s carbon tax in order to form government, she caved in and chose political power over what’s best for Australians. She basically sold out Australia to the Greens. This highlights her incompetence and complete lack of respect for the Australian people. 70% of Australians agree with me too!!!!

SimonTigey says:

09:42am | 13/02/12

Lordy Lordy, I think you need to look in the mirror. You are the one who bought all this alarmist rubbish. “The sky will fall in if we don’t impose a carbon tax”.....Well I don’t buy it, it seems you did though. As they say “There is a sucker born everyday!”

JL says:

10:01am | 13/02/12

It does cost consumers. If they cut costs then we should get lower taxes. If they then choose to spend that money giving handouts to polluters then of course it costs us, please how can it be FREE lol.

Also they have not been able to justify their costings as anyone should well know. Expert costing put it at 3 times more expensive than Labor and 90% economists agree Labor policy is far superior, So believe experts qualified in their field or experts in spin qualified to deceive. Your choice.

Andrew says:

10:53am | 13/02/12

Hey Jl, it will actually do something but, unlike the carbon tax. Neither will change the temperature, but abbotts policy will see more trees, better soils etc etc. For the money, not really worth it, but at least we get something for our money unlike the CT.

JL says:

11:46am | 13/02/12

@Andrew, We will get very, very expensive trees that are likely to die of thirst or burn down… and so increasing carbon emissions., It is a bad plan that will result in 30,000 job losses.  the debate has not be framed with the best interest of Australians at heart so we all lose out.

Andrew says:

12:53pm | 13/02/12

BS JL. Are u trying to say we should never plant more trees then, in case they burn down. By the way you do realise its CO2 not carbon that is the problem. Not sure why they have to burn down if you keep the undergrowth under control. Also you do realise that trees take CO2 out of the atmosphere so before they burn down they are actually helping CC. Anyway both policies suck but the only one that is going to be implemented at the moment is the cT, So as far as Im concerned get rid of that then worry about abbotts policy.

stevem says:

02:05pm | 13/02/12

The carbon tax has been set in stone. This is a real problem for Abbott as the carbon certificates purchased by business will be a real asset, and suddenly declaring them worthless could open a floodgate of compensation claims.

The tax and ETS, on the other hand, both add costs to Australian products and not to imports. This will give foreign goods a price advantage, both domestically and internationally. Why anybody would think it a good idea to disadvantage Australian producers at a time where the high dollar is already staggers belief. The tax is formed in the worst way possible for Australia and should never have come into being.

Abbott’s “Direct Action” may well be more expensive per tonne of CO2 reduced, but can be scaled up or down to suit the economy of the day, something the ETS can never do.

While the world is avoiding action I would rather a scheme that can change as circumstances change rather than a fixed drain on Australian industry. That said there are other far more complex mechanisms that could be introduced that would do more for less while not harming Australia internationally.

JL says:

03:16pm | 13/02/12

@Stevem

The carbon tax costs nothing overall as it is revenue neutral so why would it need to be calibrated if the economy splutters? The AUD fluctuations afftect prices more than the carbon tax will. Whne it does becoem an ETS then the amrket will set the rpice and will be very cheap if the market demands it.

Direct Action fails, we know as we have tried it for over a decade. If it worked we would not need to be looking at other ways to meet the 2020 targets.PInk batts, light bulb handouts just bloated public service.

At least you respect it costs more, so we can dismiss the lies that carbn tax is going to hurt us financially. Direct Action will hurt more. The nation has been dreadfully and disgracefully deceived.

Number Cruncher says:

03:31pm | 13/02/12

@ JL, the CT is not revenue neutral. There will be a $4b hit to the budget bottom line in the first year at Labor’s own admission.  Hardly what I would call revenue neutral!  Direct Action has the ability to be switched off at whim, whereas CT doesn’t.  And whatever direct action policies that have been tried have failed because they were inefficient, subject to rorting and initiated by state labor governments who have all been known to squander tax payers money.  Hardly what I would call a good benchmark.

JL says:

04:01pm | 13/02/12

Number Cruncher I have heard it “could’ cost 4 billion over 4 years , not one year, but that would not fully explained. Still way chepaer than the 27 billion Direct Action will cost. Or as one report suggests 10 billion in one year.

Or are people sying it is all liberal lie, they will not honour their pledge andchave no desire to? Is it? Liars? Why would they committ then?

Donny says:

06:01pm | 13/02/12

@JL - The carbon tax costs nothing overall as it is revenue neutral so why would it need to be calibrated if the economy splutters?

Very doubtful, as the Sth Aust Labor Govt have already determined it will cost them 31Mil by 2014/2015 - http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/carbon-tax-to-wipe-31m-from-state-finances-by-2014-15/story-e6frea83-1226237745770

Can’t see how that is cost neutral.  They will have to make up the loss of income via higher taxes and levies.  As SA is already one of the highest taxed states in Australia, it is only going to get worse. Considering we are one of the smaller states. what is it going to cost the more heavily populated states ?

acotrel says:

12:39pm | 13/02/12

‘I think the Peter Slippery manouvre showed this government is not afraid to play any card it can to scrounge a millimeter of political ground.’

And Tony Abbott isn’t ? Stay off the hooch !

JP says:

01:06pm | 13/02/12

It tells me something - the ALP needs to show competence (they can’t) or the Coalition needs to show the ability to negotiate and compromise occasionally rather than be seen as intractably obstructionist all the time (they aren’t).

Passing a single Bill that gets enough support to pass the lower house that is introduced by the Coalition could demonstrate an ability to both do positive politics, and negotiate with others, whilst simultaneously leading to massive embarrasment for the Government. It’s a brave move from an Opposition that is showing similar inertia to the Government for different reasons.

TommyP says:

02:40pm | 13/02/12

Dear Ron,  As “sneaky” as the Gov are, NOT ONE has offered to sell there ass.  Same can’t be said for Abbot though…....    But hey, why let FACTS stand in the way of your propaganda.  You Liberal Staffers are all the same, with the standard tripe and rhetoric, and not ONE PIEVE OF FACTUAL EVIDENCE!

Borderer says:

02:42pm | 13/02/12

@Acotrel
What Tony would or wouldn’t do is speculation on your part, what Gillard has done is a matter of record.

Steve Putnam says:

05:02pm | 13/02/12

@ Ron E Coote You conveniently omit to mention that, unpopular as the government is, Gillard is still the preferred PM.

Ron e says:

08:30pm | 13/02/12

Oh dear, the old mates are having a bit of a go today…
Steve, yep preferred PM alright. No argument there. A preferred PM who would still lose her job to the other bloke should an election be held right now. Now there’s an inconvenience for you.
TommyP, stay off the uppers or roids or whatever it is that makes attribute quotes from nowhere, and generally lowering the tone.
Same for you alcotrel. Clown.

TommyP says:

08:04am | 14/02/12

@Ron E   ——  “attribute quote from nowhere….”  Just because Alan Jones didn’t talk about it for a week, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.  Just because Andrew Bolt didn’t have 15 ‘guests’ (ex Liberal-National MP’s) to laugh at it, doesn’t mean it isn’t so.  If you bothered to use your brain, you would have read multiple articles in multiple papers, about Abbott’s offer for a piece of him, should the independants vote his way and allow him to form an “illegal, undemocratic, minority” Gov…..    so, I suggest it is YOU who needs to get back on the meds, cause you are starting to go a bit loopy!

PsychoHyena says:

08:20am | 13/02/12

And then Tony Abbott having to steal from several speeches to condemn the Government.

Andrew says:

11:00am | 13/02/12

Oh Psycho, albo use it almost word for word and didnt even acknowledge his plagerism and it was from a movie script. Tony used similiar quotes used in other speeches of politicians (not movie stars) but not word for word. He also put the references to them in the written speech that the jounos could see to acknowledge the original quotes..

Vivian says:

07:08am | 13/02/12

It doesn’t work like that Marley.

The gallery has picked a side and will back it to the hilt. In any case people tend to comment on what is relevant and worthwhile. Hence the focus on Abbott. Why bother with Labor I guess, apart from the small fact they are the government, they are essentially irrelevant,. 

I do so hope Farr will apply the same level of scrutiny to Labor when they are inevitably in opposition in a little over a year at worst.

Get It Right says:

08:59am | 13/02/12

Your truism is correct, Marley, however, people seem to forget that the role of the Oppsosition is not simply to gainsay government policy but to present a credible alternative. Having viable, costed policies should work in the Opposition’s favour by making the government look even less competent, wouldn’t you think? Obviously, Abbott and Co feel as though they have it in the bag, so they can sit back and do nothing. It’s an arrogant stance that will backfire if they’re not careful. However,“do nothing” government seems to be a Liberal strategy as well, currently, just look at Victoria. The public tire of that just as quickly.

JL says:

09:07am | 13/02/12

Vivian
A difference I found is that Labor will agree with a Liberal government in power mid term when policy is sound. Liberals do not work in the national interest, only their own, and so are very negative on good policy.

BP says:

10:59am | 13/02/12

@JL.
“A difference I found is that Labor will agree with a Liberal government in power mid term when policy is sound.” I fail to see any difference. When the government actually produces policy which is sound the Coalition has supported it. The problem is that the current government is proposing policies which are not financially, economically or socially sound and still expecting Coalition support.

Supporting proposed policy which is so far removed from what was taken to the election and is not considered to be in the national interest would not benefit the Australian people or the Coalition.

“and so are very negative on good policy.” Please give some examples of this so called good policy. All I see are various tax increases in an ever widening search to pay for the governments excessive spending.

Andrew says:

11:09am | 13/02/12

What a load of crap Get It Right and JL, no opposition has fully costed alternatives out there 2 years before an election, because it doesnt matter a crap what there policiy is because they cant implement it. All you do by doing this is give the government a chance to steal your best ideas and spread rumors and falsehoods about the other policies. This is one of the few advantages of being in opposition, you can have policies but youn dont have to give full details until the election starts, why the government obviously has to have theres out there, and if there policies are working so well why would the government be so focused on the opposition? Anyway there was an election 12 months ago, do you really believe the mahjority of there policies have changed?

Economist says:

11:27am | 13/02/12

@Marley, I think there is still plenty of scrutiny with Labor, and while the Liberals will win the next election I agree that at this time we don’t need to look at their policies.

For me what is being overlooked is that we have minority government with the Greens holding the balance of power in the Senate. It’s the economic illiterate Greens who I want to see further scrutinised.

Seriously what party puts pressure on Tasmanian Ministers to discourage a NZer from investing $150M into Gunns Ltd and the tassie economy? While I have issues with the way Gunns was managed by ex- premiers, this is disgusting, and we wonder why the Tassie economy is such a basket case.

From what I’ve read Richard Chandler is more interested in the plantation timber not so much the pulp mill. The Greens also f***’ up the timber contract for the London Olympics that were in place via lobbying of the Olympic Committee. The Greens propose getting rid of the Medicare surcharge, idiots, at least this money goes into the public purse. They’re the ones so sensitive that they put pressure of the Gillard government for a media enquiry.  Seriously who are these basket cases.

I worry about the Greens, because Labor’s primary problem is that they try and keep the ‘so called’ left and right happy, so their solutions to problems are half baked. You can see it all over the place, on immigration they thought they’d keep the right happy with a solution to send 800 boat refugees to Malaysia and the keep the left happy by accepting 4000 refugees from camps. You have a half baked mining tax, a half arsed attempt with a carbon tax/price. The Liberals at least know their base and say screw the left and don’t put forward policies to placate them.

The unintended consequence of trying to keep everyone happy is that no one’s happy so the centre right move to the Liberals and the centre left the Greens.  It’s this move to the Greens that’s a huge problem. Its the Greens subversion of minority government that I want the gallery to focus on.

TommyP says:

02:55pm | 13/02/12

Sorry Marley.  But, when applying “thought process” and “intelligence” I want to know what BOTH sides are offering, so as to make my decision on which is better.  I can’t just rely on the garbage I read in the Telegraph, or the rubbish being spewd by Jones and Bolt.  As bad as this Gov may be, the alternative is even worse.  If the Opposition can’t manage to look at least half viable, against this Gov, then, they must truly be shocking!  And, you want me to vote for THEM????????

Randy says:

07:41am | 13/02/12

Not hearing much about the very unusual unexpected “cool” summer we are having. If it were a “hot” summer it would be headlines day after day after day. Funny that.
I always find it more interesting what is not said, than what is said.

nihonin says:

08:24am | 13/02/12

‘Not hearing much about the very unusual unexpected “cool” summer we are having.’

It’d be due to the CT having scared the crap out of the atmosphere, see it did work, bugger the rest of the world, you can all burn. mwahahaha

PsychoHyena says:

08:36am | 13/02/12

@Randy, do you understand the mechanics of global warming? No.

Humans have contributed, humans are continuing to contribute, however, we are also fighting the effects of increased pollution in the atmosphere. The initial effect is an increased global temperature. As the temperature rises, natural carbon emissions increase through fire, volcanic eruptions (yes volcanic eruptions are affected by the global temperature). This will continue to the point when we hit the tipping point, there will be too much atmospheric pollution for sunlight to pass through, this will cause the earth to go into cool-down, if we continue to pump out large amounts of carbon this will hasten the process.

Oh and lowering carbon emissions usually has the added benefit of lowering other emissions also, including particles that affect health.

Before anyone starts giving me hell over this I suggest you try this. Wrap a piece of bread or something in aluminium foil, place it in the oven, it gets warmer, add another layer, it gets even warmer. Keep adding layers and you will find that eventually it starts getting cooler because the heat can’t get through the foil. All this must be done without letting the bread cool between adding layers.

nihonin says:

08:55am | 13/02/12

‘Before anyone starts giving me hell over this I suggest you try this. Wrap a piece of bread or something in aluminium foil, place it in the oven, it gets warmer, add another layer, it gets even warmer.’

Aha, so it’s actually the amount of aluminium foil in the atmosphere, that’s causing it all.

Shooter says:

09:11am | 13/02/12

Tony Abbotts competence and good judgement. Are you on drugs.

JL says:

09:45am | 13/02/12

Liberal believe in the “global warming scam” and will pay polluters OUR taxpayer money to fix it with Direct Action Polciy whohc is pink batts on steroids.
. No wonder spin is used so often, so many fall for it.

Reader says:

10:32am | 13/02/12

“Everything Labor touches is a disaster” Wrong. Everything is painted as one by the mainly pro Liberal media!! Eg the cattle thing, even rabid Tories were agreeing it had to be suspended at the time that it was. I don’t recall anyone bitching that day, but soon after that a few mega rich NT cattle barons sooked about their millions being risked and all of a sudden it was a ‘disaster’..Why did they ever stop it? Must have the memories of a goldfish. wah wah wah. Why aren’t the Liberals in govt? It become yet another excuse to bitch for an election.  The ‘school halls disaster’ wasnt’ a disaster at all. It was made to look like every one was a rip off but that’s not true. Most of the bitching is based on the ‘born to rule’ ideology rather than actual ‘disasters’.

Andrew says:

11:25am | 13/02/12

So physcho, your saying we have reached the tipping point, after all we arnt heating anymore and a lot of the world is experiencing record colds. Reader, tell me why there should have being any waste at all, why is it so hard to build the building that a school needs not something else, why was it neccesarry to pay millions more above what it would normlly cost, why did schools with hardly any kids and could close down anytime (if the number of kids falls below a certain level the school closes) have millions wasted on them. Maybe most of the BER was implemented successfully but there was still millions wasted that there was no excuse to be wasted. By the born to rule mentality I assume you mean all those union leaders who have never had a job and spent all there lives leading unions and convincing members that they know better then they do, just like they are now trying to convince the australian public that they know better then they do.

PsychoHyena says:

11:57am | 13/02/12

@nihonin do you ever actually come up with a decent counter argument or do you just wander around cluelessly?

nihonin says:

01:22pm | 13/02/12

PsychoHyena says:

  12:57pm | 13/02/12

  @nihonin do you ever actually come up with a decent counter argument or do you just wander around cluelessly?

What and make you look more of a fool?  Nah I’m happy to just wander round, showing the world how stupid your questions or statements are.

Weary says:

01:23pm | 16/02/12

Please.  Give it a rest Hyena, watching you constantly embarass yourself is making me cringe.  Take your primary school science fair novelty and save it for the other 5 year olds.
It’s pretty simple stuff.  Some of us know when we’re being lied too, the rest of us vote labor.

Smithy says:

07:05am | 13/02/12

Joan dear, have you done the scones for morning tea with Tones yet? Surely you need to get on with that rather than prattling on in here.

Dave the chippy says:

07:32am | 13/02/12

@Smithy. You win the prize (perpetual self-pity, perhaps?) for the most moronic comment of the day. Presumably Joan is not allowed to have an opinion different to Herr Gillard? Grow up.

Tom says:

07:40am | 13/02/12

Highly intelligent comment Smithy. Your mum must be proud.

nihonin says:

07:46am | 13/02/12

Dave the chippy, Smithy has nothing to defend, latest Newspoll out shows the people don’t trust the government with the economy (or as it becoming more obvious, pretty much everything), so what is there left but to attack other people…............pathetic, just like Labor has become, unfortunately.

SimonTigey says:

08:37am | 13/02/12

Good comment Joan, great summary.

Yes Smithy’s comment was just typical of a rusted on Labor voters mindset, no credibility so attack the man!!!

TommyP says:

03:03pm | 13/02/12

Its amazing how, for so long, “polls didn’t matter” to the Coallition supporters.  Now, all of a sudden, they hold their heads high, cause NEWS POLL (run by News Ltd, the Propaganda distribution arm of the LNP) gives them “favourable figures…..  Dear God save us from this bunch of morons!

Steve Putnam says:

05:23pm | 13/02/12

Get a life Joan - or is that against the rules at Liberal troll school? And who is Mr Gillard, Dave - the PM’s father? ,

Joan says:

06:59am | 13/02/12

Gillard bandaid economics - Gillard busy patching up $23 Carbon tax fall out before it even starts- wiith biliion dollar handouts everywhere. Gillard rotten bandaid economics at work.  Gillard rotten Carbon tax already taking Australia on road to ruin.—Alcoa jobs down the drain as they see No future in Gillard Carbon Tax future.

dave the sparky says:

07:36am | 13/02/12

@INH
Much like how credibility is lost when a 17 day promise of “there will be NO carbon tax…” is broken?  Gillard and Labor didn’t just lose credibility ... they lost a nation’s confidence and trust forever.  To think, you have the absolute gall and sheer front to talk about hollow rhetoric.

Markus says:

07:45am | 13/02/12

By claiming that without a new tax the entire planet was doomed to extinction, the carbon tax was the ultimate ‘sky is falling’ scare campaign.

TChong says:

08:01am | 13/02/12

dave the fizzer,
Empty rhetoric ? you say ?
who invented “core”  and “non core” ?
Give you a clue - even his own side know him as the lying rodent.
He musta had alot of gall to make promises , only to break them, too.

PsychoHyena says:

08:24am | 13/02/12

@Joan, if you look at the legislation for the CPS it actually included funding to assist producers to lower their emissions prior to the CPS.

Tom says:

09:03am | 13/02/12

Chongy, “even his own side know him as the lying rodent”. And Rudd speaks very highly of Julia?

Insert Name Here says:

10:12am | 13/02/12

Alcoa have themselves stated that their current difficulties are a fall in the world market price for aluminium of around 20% combined with the high Australian dollar.  But why let facts get in the way of simplistic three word slogans.
A price on carbon was LNP policy under Howard, Nelson and Turnbull.  The Mad Monk sensed political opportunities elsewhere, so politics quickly over-ruled science and economics.
The most blatant lie is that Australia is “going alone” on climate change, it is easy to check the real facts.

Andrew says:

11:33am | 13/02/12

Insert name here, only a idiot would believe the ct doesnt have something to do with ALcoa and many of the other businessesmaking cuts. Any business worth it salt would be looking ahead before making decisions to make cuts, that look ahead would include the cT and we all no its going to cost alcoa and similiar industries millions (or what is the point). that along with the high dollar etc would mean a prietty bleak outlook, so they are starting to cut costs now and why wouldnt they.

Denny says:

11:56am | 13/02/12

INH - can you explain how overcompensating people will lead to behavioural changes that labor want? It defys logic and just shows gillard up for the fraud she is. People see thru this BS.

Its like them saying the mining tax is going to fund an increase in superannuation contributions. Any fool knows this is a lie and it will be workers wages that suffer to pay higher super contributions.

It is little lies like these two that erode labor economic credentials. Plus the fact that they are taxing away the only natural advantage our industry has over the rest of the world.

Perhaps a three word slogan like “we are us” will put labor back on track.

Number Cruncher says:

12:09pm | 13/02/12

@ Insert Name Here, there a billions in invesments put on hold at the moment due to the inherent risks of carbon pricing and the carbon tax.  Don;t know about you, but my electricty bill went up 10% last month, and that is before the carbon tax even comes into effect.  You would have to have rocks in your head if you for one second think that Alcoa haven;t considered the detrimental effects the CT will have on their busines.  For the record, the CT legislation makes it illegal for companies to blame price increases or business failure on the CT, particularly before it is introduced.  Smell a rat much?

acotrel says:

12:46pm | 13/02/12

It would have been interesting if that bloody useless EPA had done it’s job, and fined polluters ? ALCOA and Hazelwood would have closed 40 years ago !

frankr says:

12:48pm | 13/02/12

@ Insert Name Here

your comments are nearly word for word what labor said about the GST

remember “rollback” that lasted two elections??

Insert Name Here says:

12:59pm | 13/02/12

Denny - “can you explain how overcompensating people will lead to behavioural changes that labor want?”
Certainly.  Where have you been?  The position has been repeatedly explained.  Not, granted, in simplistic three word slogans.  But, try reading this slowly.
The tax is being paid by the top polluters.  Per tonne of carbon pollution.  Therefore, the top polluters have an incentive to reduce their carbon output.  Produce less, pay less. 
Not too hard I hope.
Now, in exchange perhaps you could explain how the COAL-itlition “direct action” plan, paying taxpayer funds to the top polluters will act as an incentive.

TimB says:

01:32pm | 13/02/12

” ALCOA and Hazelwood would have closed 40 years ago ! “

And then you’d be complaining about the lack of jobs & the constant blackouts in Victoria.

PS. CO2 isn’t pollution.

TommyP says:

03:38pm | 13/02/12

WOW Joan.  you should work for Abbott, if not already on the payroll.  You managed to take his 3-word slogans, and turn them into 5-word punchlines.  Either way, still no substance, no direction, NO ALTERNATIVE!  Thanks for trying though.

TommyP says:

03:48pm | 13/02/12

Andrew, only an IDIOT will fall for the tripe being purported by Abbott and Co that a business closing TODAY, is doing so because of a PERCEIVED COST in 5 months time!  When will you people stop with the PROPAGANDA, and start to use your BRAINS.  Or at least, STICK TO THE FRIGGIN FACTS!

Joan says:

04:27pm | 13/02/12

TommyP: Chopping out Gillard world highest $23tonne Carbon Tax on everything is an alternative- it means job growth.  Gillard stands for job loss as we now see snowballing into effect as her $23 Carbon Tax guillotine falls on job growth come 1st July Gillard with her bandaid handouts not helping job loses- jobs losses growing day by day.

Denny Crane says:

07:02pm | 13/02/12

Insert Name Here - I think your wayne swan because only he could come up with the nonsensical respones that you have. Only the top 500 emitters will pay eh? The tax wont get passed on eh? wel why the hell is there compensation you half wit?

Of course everyone will pay. Thats the point of it. Everybody modifies their behaviour except the rich. The middle class modify theirs because it will cost too much not to. The working class because it will give them more in their pocket and general industry because it will give a bigger return to shareholders.

Is it any wonder Abbott is the prefered economic manager with reasoning like that. Next thing you will be saying is that the Mining tax is going to pay for an increase in superannuation contributions. Mindless bullshit. When Costello said you were the worst shadow treasurer ever, little did he know how stupid you are. Do us a favour wayne and resign. just piss off.

TommyP says:

08:36am | 14/02/12

Only an idiot will fall for the hysteria in the media that job losses today, are the result of a tax due to come in to effect, in 5 months.    Well done National-Liberal-CEO’s Coalition Party supporters…..  All your private schoold education, silver spoons up your asses, and STILL, not a grain of intelligence amongst you…...

Mattb says:

01:50pm | 13/02/12

Yeah, it’s interesting isn’t it. Tony Abbott, the liberal party and their blind supporters call for a new election every second day. Yet when asked anything regarding policies for the next election the first thing they say is “the election is 18 months away, why would they/we release our policies”. spin, spin, spin.

Oh, look, seamus like spinning the bullshit too

nihonin says:

06:56am | 13/02/12

That’s about it Anthony, no one to blame but themselves, they may have some good policy, but they never table it.  People are seeing them as bumbling (Inspector Clouseau would have more credibility), one disaster to another and yet when The PM, any minister or MP is question, it’s always answered with the comical line “Tony Abbott” in the answer.  This is what has turned me off, he is the opposition, they are for all intents and purposes, apparently the government….............well govern then.

Rose says:

10:25am | 13/02/12

I think this is the bottom line. All political parties seem to consist of people who are not really fit to be in Parliament. Malcolm Turnbull is the only politician who even looks statesman like and even he botched it with the ute-gate mess, showing that, ultimately, just like the rest, he too was after power for powers sake and not to improve the nation. Kevin Rudd offered flashes of leadership but was unable/unwilling to work as part of the team for a common good.
At the moment Abbott scares me more than Gillard ever could, I can’t think of a single redeeming feature in the man, except maybe his physical fitness, but I can see how he would be a tragedy as a PM. He is rigid and unbending, mean spirited, academically he may have some rungs on the board but he comes across as completely lacking in basic intelligence and he behaves as if he feels he is ‘entitled’ to govern. Abbott would rather come up with populist but stupid ideas such as his maternity leave scheme, the idea that you could pack all the long-term unemployed off to the mines, his Direct Action plan.and so on.
Gillard needs to pull her head in or get out of the road, but such is the lack of quality candidates at the moment, she, sadly, is probably the best option we currently have.
I’m in full agreement with you though, we need to hope that the next generation that pursue a political career are of a much higher standard than we have now.

nihonin says:

11:10am | 13/02/12

Rose states: At the moment Abbott scares me more than Gillard ever could, I can’t think of a single redeeming feature in the man, except maybe his physical fitness, but I can see how he would be a tragedy as a PM. He is rigid and unbending, mean spirited, academically he may have some rungs on the board but he comes across as completely lacking in basic intelligence and he behaves as if he feels he is ‘entitled’ to govern. 

Replace he with she and that’s how more and more people non rusties are seeing it, Rose.

Andrew says:

11:53am | 13/02/12

Well come on Rose, tell me exactly what you believe he will do as PM. What are you so scared of?. I keep asking people who toss out this tired out BS about him being scarey the same question, and not one has bother to answered, in other words they find him scary because there being told they should find him scarey and beingb the sheep that they are they believe it. So again exactly what do you think he will do, do you believe because hes catholic and right wing he will ban contracepies, make it illegal to have sex outside marriage, ban abortion, lock anyone up that disabays the 10 commandents. Because he hates woman maybe your scared hes going to make it illegal for woman to leave the house without men, maybe issue each couple with a 30 foot chain, which has to be placed around the womans ankle so she can only go from the bedroom to the bathroom to the kitchen. Hey we all know he hate immigants and aborigines so Im sure your scared anyone that isnt white will be exported (if there lucky) or sent to camps were they will be gassed or shot. Hey we all know he wont only bring back workchoices but it will be workchoices mark 10, you know were unions are disbanded, employers will be able to pay workers $1 an hour and make them work 23/7. Im sure I can come up with some mor ideas about why you should be scared but I will turn it ove rto you Rose.

Rose says:

12:51pm | 13/02/12

OK Andrew, off the top of my head:
1) Introduction of a maternity leave scheme which means a new tax on business in order to pay SOME women up to $75,000 for 6 months maternity leave. Further entrenching middle class welfare and directing money at the already haves instead of simply providing a basic safety net for all.
2) Abandoning the NBN and replacing with a hotch potch policy. The NBN is expensive but it is the best way to cater for future needs. Abbott’s plan is a cheap and nasty version which won’t be sufficient to keep Australia in the game.
3) Making mutual obligation requirements far more onerous (sending under 30s to the mines ??) even though the evidence suggests that while mutual obligation can be successful, the concept of punishing the long term unemployed for non compliance actually further entrenches disadvantage rather than ending it. Best option (and cheapest) would be to introduce far more effective case management so people can get the assistance they need to overcome their own barriers to employment.
4) Turn back the boats, Really?? Australia is going to suddenly become immune to the refugee problem that exists worldwide? Australia needs to act in conjunction with other nations to try and sort this out, particularly our neighbouring countries. It would also help if he acknowledged that the huge majority of unauthorized arrivals come by plane and that our processing, which takes to long and has these people imprisoned in inappropriate and too harsh facilities, is a major cause of mental illness and it reduces the refugees ability to then enter the Australian community when the eventually are granted our protection. (Both sides are an epic fail in this regard)
5)  His only real solution seems to be tax cuts and improved services. How the hell is he going to manage that? Which services will he cut? He’s planning on taking in less money and still keeping the nation afloat, it’s a joke. If there are tax cuts there will also be a significant cut to services, probably the ones which are meant to help those most in need, the NDSS, health, education, Centrelink recipients, pensioners.
That’s without getting started on the fact that as a person, there seems to be little to like. His Catholicism doesn’t bother me, I’m Catholic. Although I must say that he does make the rest of us Catholics look bad with his intolerance and lack of compassion.
That’s just scraping the surface as to why I dislike him.

fitter says:

01:27pm | 13/02/12

Andrew, I dont find him scary, just polarising, and to be frank, an extremist. Yep, sorry, but some of his views are extreme, and some are borderline offensive. I cant stand Gillard either, but the thought of Abbott leading the country is far far worse, he’s the australian sarah palin. Why is it that liberal party voters prefer this man over Turnbull, explain this to me? His catholic background wouldnt be an issue, except for the fact that he pushes his catholic stoneage views onto the elecorate (banning abortion drugs) his commens on women, ( virginity is a gift, they are never going to be equal to men etc) his fear of gay people. Regarding immigrants, I assume your referring to assylum seekers? well comments about towing boats back out to sea may appeal to the battlers and white supremicists among us, but they are dangerous, and completley unworkable. I could go on about his phone calls to George Pell regarding social policy etc etc, again a worry when a future PM thinks the church has a place in formulating government policy. The progressive amongst us can find all of the above scary, but maybe im just a sheep.

Andrew says:

02:42pm | 13/02/12

I’ll reply to fitter first and rose later. First of all why dont we like Turnbull, because Turnbull should be in the labor party and thats why he appeals to people like you. When has he pushed his catholic views on anyone. So he doesnt like the abortion drug, why would he, hes catholic, FFS hes entitled to an opinion isnt he, I dont agree with him but hes allowed a view. Since when does this mean it will become policy, he has stated that he would not make it illegal. Virginity is a virtue, he was talking about his daughters, again FFS why wouldnt he want his daughters to be be cautious about losing there virginity, if you dont feel that way maybe you can send your daughters around to my place. As for woman not bhe equal, again BS he didnt say that , he was talking strengh wise, In case you havent noticed overall men have more muscle then woman and because of this many woman cant do the jobs that some men do, wow now theres a groundbreaking statement. As for the boats, well you would have to only do it once or twice and they would stop coming but I guess your right, we wouldnt want to do that. And the Gillard policy isnt dangerrous, sorry how many have died so far?. As for Pell, well I refer to my original post, which of the things I mentioned do you think he will implement. By original post was actually tongue in cheek, but you have prietty much backed it all up. You believe he will introduce extreme parts of the catholic faith, that he hates woman and thinks they should stay in the bedroom and kitchen etc etc, no your not a sheep, I’ve worked with sheep and they actually have more idea then you which is saying a fair bit.

Tator says:

03:07pm | 13/02/12

Rose,
so you are against a maternity leave scheme which allows 98% of women to be paid what they currently earn compared to a scheme which reduces the pay of over 60% of all working women.  (data from ATO income tax statistics 08/09.)  Now which scheme is fairer, but then again, the ALP has form for only making it fair for the lowest common denominator

Peter says:

03:33pm | 13/02/12

My business does not want to be hit with a great big new tax to pay for Tony’s paid parental scheme, it is just hopeless.

Even Judith Sloan agree’s that his policy is rubbish and she is one of his biggest supporters.

Joan says:

03:56pm | 13/02/12

Rose: 1. Tut, tut you didn’t listen properly Sunday- Abbott policy ain’t maternity welfare. - it`s about business productivity, paid for by business.2. NBN monoply Gillard super ripoff highway, - the rest of the world uses multiple systems, hotch potch systems costing less yet travelling fast. But then Rose is probably happy with $23tonne Carbon tax Gillard ripoff too, costing hard working Australians millions. Gillard out to out do the rest of world in cost per household in every area. 3. Long term lazy should just get off their butts. How about they clean up the city for a start and show a bit of respect to the hard working families that are financing their long term laziness. Cleaning up after others will help them focus on the job they really want - collecting centrelink handouts has done nothing to date .4. Temporary protection visas, Nauru and turn back the boats when safe worked before , worth the try again. Endless futile nattering and wringing of hands by Bowen and Gillard is just a welcome sign out for illegal immigrants as boat, after boat load arrive costing hard working Australians millions of dollars. 4. Yep tax cuts sound good- turf out the Gillard Carbon Tax and all the bureaucrats that come with it,  get rid off all Climate Change hangeron money blood suckers,  give NBN monoply the flick and implement cost effective broadband a la Turnbull variety. Multi billions saved!!  Howzat Rose!

Steve Putnam says:

05:43pm | 13/02/12

@ Tator Re parental leave - everyone should get paid the same otherwise you entrench privilege. In case you’d forgotten this is Australia not the US.

Chris L says:

07:12pm | 13/02/12

Time was that potential parents would budget and pay for their own babies (sometimes by cutting down on luxuries like the second car and fashion shopping). Now handouts seem to be regarded as an inalienable right.

Tator says:

04:26am | 14/02/12

Steve,
What crap, people should be paid on their merits otherwise you encourage mediocrity.  So you encourage reducing someone who earns above minimum wages pay because of class envy.  For Abbott’s scheme,  even taking the ceiling down to the Australian Average would allow 80 odd percent of women to recieve the same income, so why actively disadvantage people where the vast number being disadvantaged already earn less than the Australian Average wage.  So you are happy to try and knobble the high flyers and in the process, reduce the income for those 50 odd percent of women who earn between the minimum and average wages.  Talk about fairness NOT.

Joan says:

07:39am | 13/02/12

No crash on Meet the Press - Abbott came out tops - a super interview - Abbott, looked, good, confident,  clear and on track for a greater, better Australiai . Got my vote.  The only guy looking sorry for himself was Combet `Insiders`, shoulders slumped, down in tthe dumps, tryling to flog Gillard rotten bandaid economics .

Rose says:

11:07am | 13/02/12

Are you serious Joan? He did not answer a single question properly, he was reduced to repeating his scripted lines over and over (they blame me for the Australia Day riots, they blame me for the Australia Day riots ad on and on and on) and continued to try and deflect to the ALP when asked about his own party. he crashed and only the diehards would have seen it any other way!

sandra says:

11:38am | 13/02/12

Agree with you Joan—he did well despite the bullying press speaking over him—I so much laugh at the rusted ons here alwasy being so offensive to you. Such typical labor bogan mentality—so predictable

SimonFromLakemba says:

12:10pm | 13/02/12

@Sandra

“I so much laugh at the rusted ons here alwasy being so offensive to you. “

“Such typical labor bogan mentality—so predictable”

Lol..

Cati says:

12:38pm | 13/02/12

I specially liked the cat grin Bongiorno gave, when Abott told him that he (Bongiorno) knows who was spreading the lies about his speech on Australia Day.
Canberra press are mighty quiet about that even though they could be prime witnesses as they were helping labor spread the lies on that day

nihonin says:

07:51am | 13/02/12

‘Did you happen to notice the news poll out this morning’.  Labor HQ certainly did, every rustie, sycophant and anybody with butchers paper and crayons is out there telling voters how good the government is, by comparing it to the opposition, who strangely enough, aren’t in government lol.

Super D says:

08:34am | 13/02/12

I reckon there’s a chance that Abbott will one day praise the Gillard government but only if the do a particularly good job cleaning up after they vacate their offices after the next election.

TimB says:

08:33am | 13/02/12

Ah yes. Polls that go against your beloved Labor party are a joke. Polls that favor them are great though. That’s why we see all the Labor minions squawking about Preferred PM.

Time to wake up to reality Holly.

nihonin says:

08:29am | 13/02/12

Good point David, but until ‘Now’ actually comes to fruition, why bother with policy releases, I’m still waiting for Labor policy to be released for the next election, along with Greens policy. 

It is a stupid comment only party rusties could have come up with.

Martin says:

09:08am | 13/02/12

But the Newspoll figures for Best at hanling the Economy have IMPROVED for Labor since it was last asked in October 2011.

Then it was 47-28 in favour of the colaition - So the poll is moving in Labor’s direction.

Anybody disagree with those figures.

Bob says:

09:39am | 13/02/12

Martin - from 47 - 28 in favour of the Coalition result in Oct 2011.
I would hope there would be an improvement after such a disaster of a result for any Government.
Can you tell me if this was some sort of poll record set on the economy by Labor?

Shooter says:

09:14am | 13/02/12

No Dash they should start middle income welfare like the NLP

Tom says:

09:31am | 13/02/12

... ending the “blame game” in health.
... solving all indigenous problems by saying “sorry” to unrepresentative activist rat bags.
... having an expensive talkfest.

Wouldn’t Mal love that.

Tom says:

09:48am | 13/02/12

No Shooter, they should keep it, like the ALP are doing.
It’s 2012. After 5 years, the ALP has not changed it. Still waiting.

Shooter says:

10:31am | 13/02/12

Tom the only problem with it like both Labor and Liberal are doing is making people more welfare dependent. If family payments stopped tomorrow people will be hitting the wall and blaming everyone else except them. Like to dole for young people we are teaching them not to work. Just the same as family payments we are teaching the middle class to become lower class.

Bert says:

10:52am | 13/02/12

... proping up the car Industry so that selected Unions can benefit by taking a cut
... kidnapping the FOFA to try and favor ISF which in turn unions take a cut.
Unions have to look at ways of getting extra money to help pay for their credit cards.

Dash says:

11:27am | 13/02/12

@Shooter - yeah how terrible to give something back to the people who are paying all of the taxes whilst still maintaining a surplus. Why do you see that as wrong?

It’s so much better to just take more from the people contributing the most financially and give it to dope smoking ALP voters already on welfare. That will send the right message wont it Shooter!

Punish the educated, hard working people driving the economy and reward the dumb as dogshit ALP voter!

Get real.

Economist says:

11:32am | 13/02/12

Dash sorry But I have to do a Nossy, Hahahahahaha.

They can offer it but how will they achieve it???? Unless of course you were being sarcastic!

GregE says:

11:34am | 13/02/12

I agree. The LNP should just make shit up and not deliver any of it. It worked for the ALP in 2007. Just lie to people. The media seem to love that. That seems to be what Mal would prefer.

Scientists think that Hydrogen is the most abundant element in existence. But they are wrong, there is much more stupidity around. That appears to be the single most common thing in Australia today and the ALP continue to exploit it with the help of their lefty friends in the media.

SimonFromLakemba says:

12:13pm | 13/02/12

@GregE

“of their lefty friends in the media”

This is different from NEWS Ltd how?

Andrew says:

12:14pm | 13/02/12

Sorry Dash but hes right, no matter what side you favour, this welfare state has to stop sometime, look at europe and the US, it will catch up to us sometime. Unfortunately I dont think either side will do anything about it until its to late and they have absolutely no choice, so who does something about it will depend on whos in power when the %^$# hits the fan. People seem to believe that they are owed something, well sorry they arnt. The only people that should be getting help are the really disadvantaged or handicapped and the short term unemployed (you should only get benefits for 6 months) if your not disadvantaged and you cant find work after 6 months then your not trying.

Dash says:

12:37pm | 13/02/12

@Simon, I think GregE was suggesting Mal is the ALP’s friend.

Wont the media enquiry purge us of anyone who dares to disagree with this government? I mean, it worked for Stalin so it may as well work for Gillard as well eh.

This place is run by News Ltd, yet they still seem to give you a voice?? Can’t be all that bad now can it.

Surely you’re not suggesting the continued line of ALP failure is all News Ltd’s fault are you? They broke the carbon tax promise did they? They broke the promise not to touch the private health tax rebate did they? They wasted $4billion on an insulation fiasco, and bribed independents? They covered up credit card fraud and announced the East Timor Solution did they?

How dare News Ltd report the fact that this government is crap! Quick, take this taxpayers money, lets hold an inquiry.

Dash says:

01:13pm | 13/02/12

@Andrew, no argument from me. I’m one of the ones with the ALP target on his back! People like me who are actually paying the majority of PAYG tax, the flood levy, wearing the cost of the carbon tax and seeing the health rebate taken away, are sick of the ALP having it’s hands in our pockets only to see it pissed away. And they are not removing welfare, the ALP is taking from the productive part of the community and giving it to people who don’t dersve it! That’s the point.

At least the LNP gave money back to the people who were paying all the tax. And at the same time they were abel to balance the nations finances. The situation we have at the moment is crazy! Take a look at what 20 years of Socialism did for Greece because if we keep this government for much longer, that’s where we are headed!

Tom says:

01:26pm | 13/02/12

Shooter, I agree with you 100%. I intended a bit of irony. Both sides have to keep providing welfare to pork barrel a brats in the electorate.

SimonFromLakemba says:

01:29pm | 13/02/12

@Dash

Your rants are getting so incoherent its bordering on embarrassing.

I never suggested it was all News Ltds fault, but they aren’t exactly objective are they? that’s all I was pointing out. Labor’s faults are there for all to see which I can admit, unlike someone so blind as yourself.

“it worked for Stalin so it may as well work for Gillard as well eh”

So now comparing Gillard to Stalin, nice work.

Dash says:

02:38pm | 13/02/12

@ Simon - well what was Gillard doing in the Socialist Forum right up until 2002? Just licking stamps? From the policy over the last 2 years, I don’t think so.

I’ve tried to dumb it down a bit for you. Hope it’s coherent enough for even a Labor supporter can follow.

SimonFromLakemba says:

03:37pm | 13/02/12

@Dash

The fact that you are a grown male carrying on like a primary school kid isn’t something to be proud of.

You claim to have a masters in Accounting? Economics? Yet continually get your arse handed to you by Economist when it comes to debating economic policy.

The funny part is all the things you despise about the left, you embody in the right.

Dash says:

04:00pm | 13/02/12

@Simon - Economists don’t agree on everything. The fact that “the Economist” leans heavily towards the ALP, I wouldn’t expect you to say anything else.

The man who has no argument left, resorts to the type of name calling that you have consistently on this site. What was that you were saying about the school yard? People who live in glass houses should not throw stones!

if you go back to my original post, you will see a list of promises made by your ALP that were a bunch of election eve lies. They were held up as policy yet not delivered. And there is a long list of them over the last 4 years. The issue I highlight, is that there is no point telling the community you have policy when you do not intend to implement it or intend to do the opposite.

The ALP lied about the carbon tax and they lied about not touching the private health tax rebate. Why do you accept the deceit from the ALP so readily? On the ALP gravy train are we?

I believe people deserve to be given the opportunity to work hard and be successful without being punished for doing so. If that’s embodying the right, then so be it! I’d love to understand why you think that’s such a bad thing. And why you think the class war the ALP is waging is such a good thing.

I guess I earn what I do because some bloke in Lakemba doesn’t rate my qualifications! Sticks and stones mate - lol

GregE says:

04:07pm | 13/02/12

@Simon from Lakemba - you support a party that just makes shit up and lies continually for political gain. Then you get on here and tell us it’s perfectly reasonable and we should all just accept that.

I wonder about the morality of some ALP supporters. I can’t understand why a government that has performed so badly and who continues to be so out of touch with the majority, still comands a third of the vote. Either there are a lot of people with no values or, they are all on the ALP Christmas list for handouts.

Why you Simon? Why is it OK for the ALP to continually lie to us and fail us? Why do they still have your support?

Borderer says:

05:08pm | 13/02/12

I wonder why the people object so much to what’s classed as “middle class welfare”. I get this rebate because I earn enough that I would otherwise be hit with a surcharge as well. This means that I get compensated for about $1000 of healthcare yet I pay out $1400 in mediacare levy that I don’t use. So the government is $400 straight up better off plus they don’t have to care for me in the public system. Do I whine that I’m effectively paying an extra $400 tax for something I don’t use? Yet some of you seem to complain that I should be paying an extra $1000 on top of that for a service I don’t use. So I ditch my private cover and go public, I now pay $2400 instead of $3300 (new price for private without the rebate) and overburden the public system so the government can cost themselves an extra $400 as well as care for me if I am ill, yet another stroke of Gillard genius.

Steve Putnam says:

05:51pm | 13/02/12

If I ever get a parrot I’m going to call it Dash!

SD says:

08:46am | 13/02/12

Lucy, One article that doesn’t smash the government across the park and in your estimation “it is almost as though the press gallery has given up on criticising the Government ” !? Fear not, im pretty sure you can pick up the Herald Sun or the Telegraph any day between now and the end of time and you’ll get want you’re looking for.

SimonFromLakemba says:

09:18am | 13/02/12

With the Telegraph having pieces from Devine, Bolt, Akerman, Blair, Benson usually take up the 5 day week. Such a great paper for expressing opposing views that one.

Tom says:

09:43am | 13/02/12

SimonFromLakemba, ... Cassidy, Adams, Kenneally, O’Brien George Megalogenis… who could forget Maxine McKew - all taxpayer funded.
Phil Coorey, Ross Gittins.
Gee what a fun game.

SimonFromLakemba says:

10:32am | 13/02/12

@Tom

The ABC?

I’m talking about papers here…

Although there was a study that found ABC wasn’t biased it never stopped Howard from stacking the board though.

SD says:

10:41am | 13/02/12

Tom, the difference being who’s ever heard of most of the people you list? They’re stuffed up the back or in the papers nobody reads obviously or they’re mostly guest writers. If you can’t see how one-sided the Tele is I guess you’re only looking through one eye.

Rose says:

11:24am | 13/02/12

Lucy, the reason they talked down the riot was , and read this carefully THERE WAS NO RIOT!! What there was was a protest which moved toward the PM and Opposition Leader and got louder and then appeared more menacing. There was no violence and it wasn’t even terribly threatening. You need to look at the whole footage and not just the snippets of Gillard and Abbott being unceremoniously dragged out. There is no doubt that the protest was uncomfortable and it was definitely disrespectful for all those that were caught up in it, but to call it a riot is a load of crap!

Dan says:

12:34pm | 13/02/12

Lucy, are you blind?

The most-read newspapers in the country are the Daily Telegraph and the Herald Sun. Hardly close friends of the ALP.

The most-listened-to broadcasters in the country are 2GB’s Alan Jones and Ray Hadley. You’d struggle to find two more deep, passionate haters of the ALP.

And yet you and many others accuse the Australian media of pro-Labor bias, day in, day out.

Even those outlets that aren’t waging clear campaigns against the Government are hardly friendly. The ABC’s 2010 election coverage underwent a massive internal audit - finding it actually ran more stories friendly to the Coalition, over all mediums.
And it was the SMH and Age that broke the story over Rudd’s backflip on the ETS, that eventually saw him thrown out of office.

I daresay many that accuse the press gallery of bias are so blinded by their irrational hatred of the Government, that any story not dragging them over hot coals is instantly labelled ‘biased’. A little perspective would go a long way.

Andrew says:

12:34pm | 13/02/12

Simon a report done by who, by lefties that who, of course they found no bias. By the way the telegragh has articles by Howes, by Oakes and Penberthy who criticises abbott all the time (also gillard occasionly) Every 2nd week it has an article by labor ministers such as Gillard, Shorten, Combet, Conroy. Sarrah Le Marquand has written plenty of articles praising Gillard.  Does this make the tele a leftie paper, of course not but it makes it lot more balanced then you pretend, as for them being obscure or hidden, thats BS, they appear in eactly the same place in the paper as Akerman, bolt etc. It just goes to show that you dont even look at the paper, so what right do you even have to form a opinion.

Andrew says:

12:46pm | 13/02/12

Oh, by the way Simon, Sd maybe you would like to name some of the journalists at the age and ABC and to a lesser estant the SMH you are obviously from the right. On the ABC Chris Ulhman is about the only one whom asks tough questions to both sides, and considering his wife is a sitting ALp membe rhe is proberly still a ALP voter, but he doesnt allow that to get in way of his professionalism (and dont you lefties hate it when he asks someone in the gov a tough question). There is also a lady that is fair to both sides but I cant think of her name. Every panel progran has one from the Coalition or right (occasionly but rarely 2) and the rest are even middle of the road, but tend to lean more left, Alp members or members of some extreme group or minority. So the right is always out numbered at least 1.5 to 1 or 2 to 1, there is never more right leaning panelists then left. How you or anyone can actually deny that is beyond me.

SimonFromLakemba says:

02:10pm | 13/02/12

@Andrew

Dan is right, read his post.

The SMH has Costello, Sheehan, Bishop, Vanstone, Handerson all contributing on a regular basis. The Fairfax, mainly the Age is leftist as much as the Australian is right. The example I gave was 1 week about 4 weeks ago of the commentators it had in the paper

Around 70% of papers sold are News Ltd and some town only have 1 paper so their opinion carries a lot of weight. The Telegraph has already been caught out 3 times lying about the NBN and I see those same lies copy and pasted as peoples arguments on various blogs like gospel. At the same time you have Rupert Murdoch submitting tweets personally slagging off the current Government.

By the way I wouldn’t call myself a ‘lefty’ but for someone who is a ‘swinging voter’ judging by your comments previously today you seem fairly right wing.

JL says:

10:22am | 13/02/12

They are funded by wealthy mining magnates so no excuse plus obviously the policy has already been bought and paid for.

Dan says:

08:59am | 13/02/12

The polls certainly point away from the Government, that much is clear. But we’re still in a bizarre situation of strong primary support for the Coalition, but little personal support for it’s leader.

I read it as a strong dis-endorsement of the current Government, but only weak endorsement of the Opposition. Voters are still turned off by it’s figurehead, Tony Abbott.

This should come as no consolation to the Labor Party. Voters clearly want a change, there’s just not sure in which direction.

The Coalition has the chance in 2013 to take a NSW-scale win, relegating the ALP to the corners of the Opposition benches. But it seems they’re squandering it, with a lack of policy detail or clear direction. They’ll certainly win, but at this rate - not on the scale they so wish.

nihonin says:

09:07am | 13/02/12

‘On another issue I was upset to read on Sky News that a small band of KKK was hurling abuse at the Aboriginal Tent Embassy. There is no place for the KKK in Australia. Yes a small band of Aboriginals caused some upset, but that was an isolated issue and started by a Labor Staffer’.

onlooker your last line pretty much has the answer to all this, yes it is a shame racists will continue to use the day as a dog whistle, but it all started with a Labor government staffer.

JL says:

12:00pm | 13/02/12

I do not feel let down by Julia being a female, quite the opposite. If we can forgive male sports stars for what should be unforgiveable behaviour so easily, then we should cut Julia some slack, especially given the carbon tax for eg is cheaaer and easier for the poorest amongst us to digest that the ETS she had promised or the the police Liberal promise. Not everyone is a wealthy mining stock shareholder.

Also getting rid of Rudd, fantastic. For those of that have suffered bullying in the workplace were glad to see sometimes they do not get away with it. To pander to a bully just because they get higher rating due to “celebrity” does not wash with me.

As for Aboriginal embassy. She shoud have supported her staff member, Abbot was at fault as he often is makign poor judgement statements, just the week before re the sinking boat. We cannot have a possible leader being so undiplomatic, could easily send us to war.

Julia has done a very good job and I for one applaud her. Do nto agree 100% with her thinking, but she has done good work and only idle gossipers disagree.

Donny says:

06:22pm | 13/02/12

Very interesting JL - She shoud have supported her staff member, Abbot was at fault as he often is makign poor judgement statements,

Considering Aboriginal Leaders, media, members of the Tent Embassy and even some Labor politicians all admitted there was nothing untoward in Abbott’s comment, how is it you can claim to see what all of the above could not?
The leader of the aboriginal Tent Embassy even admitted they were stirred up by the the false information fed to them by Ms Sattler, a Union Official at the site.

Bob says:

09:38pm | 13/02/12

JL: What did Abbott actually say (not what it was claimed he said, but actually said) that was poorly judged? Personally I don’t really see how his judgement can really come into play when people are willing to simply lie about what he said.

Not Abbotts! says:

03:48pm | 13/02/12

Speaking for the so called ‘everybody’ as usual are the Liberal hacks!

Ian Harris says:

08:51am | 13/02/12

Abbott is the ultimate pugilist and gives Rhodes Scholars a bad name.
See my blog:  http://www.theblowfly.com.au
This week I will look at the Opposition’s economic policy and how it is being handled by The Three Amigos

Martin says:

10:46am | 13/02/12

Where’s the Mortien

Cookie Monster says:

11:44am | 13/02/12

Mr Blowfly - you need to update your article after Laura Oakes article on the weekend. And I didn’t really see any talk of an economic policy, only infantile talk of gestation and tummy rubbing. If you’re going to bother to write maybe a bit more meat in your articles will keep your readers interested.

John Dedes says:

11:47am | 13/02/12

@Martin “Where’s the Mortien”

Gone- They shut their Sydney factory and moved offshore with 200 jobs lost.. 
Louie is now on the dole buzzing round various homeless shelters.

john says:

11:36am | 13/02/12

@nossy “To paraphrase Churchill “never has so little been offered to so many by so few”  {even corrected chruchill for you nossy }

....to use your quoted paraphrase, how ironic with the way the budget is going, is how the next election will need to be won.

nossy says:

11:55am | 13/02/12

@john 12.36pm I am looking forward John to seeing how Abbott, with zero sales skills, goes about convincing 4-5 million Pensioners and Low Income earners to hand back their Carbon Tax Compo money! Come election time these poor buggers will be flushed with cash and it would take the power of 5 Gerry Harveys to convince them to part with. Game set and match John. But anyway just saying your right heres a little ditty for us to sing along with and get in the “groove”  - I like this one!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9fs_6v20Cw

james says:

03:37pm | 13/02/12

Got it one nossy, will be a fear campaign that Tony will take away all your extra benefits.

2013 should be a cracker.

Disco Stu says:

10:34am | 13/02/12

Yes but it IS their job to have alternative policies. Abbott reminds me of Homer Simpson for Sanitation Commissioner, ‘what am I the answer man? Just vote for me!”

HG says:

11:04am | 13/02/12

@Disco Stu,cartoons are the highest level any laborite can relate to,they will understand you well done and have a banana

nihonin says:

11:22am | 13/02/12

Just keep listening to Whitney and watching the spinning mirror ball, Disco Stu, it’ll be alright, just remember to keep breathing.

Shane From Melbourne says:

12:44pm | 13/02/12

@Disco Stu- Your analogy is flawed- Homer Simpson is likable character. Tony Abbott, not so much….

Disco Stu says:

01:15pm | 13/02/12

You’re so hard-wired into your thinking aren’t you Libs? Cartoons the ‘highest level’ of something a ‘Laborite’ can relate to obviously? Double degree actually, but I like cartoons too! I don’t like disco though, it’s getting old, it’s all i used to talk about in the 70s… in nappies…

nihonin says:

01:29pm | 13/02/12

Shane From Melbourne says:

  01:44pm | 13/02/12

  @Disco Stu- Your analogy is flawed- Homer Simpson is likable character. Tony Abbott, not so much….

This I liked, thanks for the chuckle Shane.

Farken says:

11:46am | 13/02/12

well john if “no to boats”  then you don’t have this “No to a stupid more intakes Malaysia solution”  good lnp thinking that never mind the abuse in your statement

james says:

12:04pm | 13/02/12

He will keep the carbon price and NBN though.

PsychoHyena says:

12:04pm | 13/02/12

@john the NBN obsolete? The technology behind it is still in it’s teens. The infrastructure for the NBN will be cheaper to maintain, it will cost less to upgrade to meet user-load.

Lower taxes is great and everything, but I would rather pay more tax if it means better public services than pay lower taxes and have non-existent public services.

Wasteful spending, as you call it, actually stimulates the economy.

Alikuma says:

12:11pm | 13/02/12

Abbott owns every asylum seeker that has arrived since October 13th 2011 when he opted for on-shore processing and refused to support changes in legislation that allowed off-shore processing

He owns the death of every asylum seeker who attempted to make the journey because of his political position on this issue.

Wonder how he sleeps at night.

Anubis says:

12:58pm | 13/02/12

@ Alikuma - You are one seriously deluded individual. K.Rudd, ably assisted by J. Gillard, dismantled an effective policy which had slowed the flow of economic coutry shoppers to a mere dribble. They did it whilst proudly announcing that they would have a far more humanitarium policy. Problem is they didn’t have a policy to replace it with, in fact they didn’t even have a clue. Every boat that has arrived since they dismantled the Nauru/TPV combination of policies has been a direct result of the pull factors they put in to place.

Every death of an “asylum seeker” trying to reach Australia in a leaky boat since 2007 can be directly attributed to the actions of K. Rudd and J. Gillard.

The East Timor solution was a crock - she hadn’t even bothered talking to East Timor
Same goes for the Manus Island solution - no chance from the second that Gillard had that particular brain-fart.
The Malaysia Solution - yeah right. Gillard, as a lawyer (supposedly) should have understood the high probability of that one getting knocked on the head by the High Court.
What is their policy now to dissuade people from jumping onto leaky Indonesian fishing boats?........... Is that the sound of crickets chirrupping in the night. That’s right - Labor don’t have a policy on that because they don’t have a friggin clue.

For you Labor rusties to blame these failures on T. Abbott shows real desperation. He is not the one in Government, he does not have the numbers to put policy through. If it was such a brilliant policy your “changes in legislation that allowed off-shore processing
” then why didn’t Labors coalition of the wishy-washy (Labor, Greens, Independents) put the policy through, if they had combined then the votes of Abbott’s team were unnecessary. That’s right, it was a sh*t policy so the Greens and the independents wouldn’t back it.

Go back to the drawing board @Alikuma and try again

frankr says:

01:07pm | 13/02/12

@ Alikuma
utter frigging bullshit

thatmosis says:

03:48pm | 13/02/12

Alikuma, what parallel universe do you prescide in. The Krudd/Jollia government had the perfect chance to stop the boats by not scrapping a policy that worked, unlike most of their miserable policies. To say that Abbott is to blame is ........actually lost for words but insane keeps coming to mind. All the Government had to do was reinstate the Howard Policy and the boats would have stopped like they did before the Labor party stuffed things up.
Macolm, Joolia never had any personal integrity from day one. lets look at the facts and not your fiction, one she knifed Rudd in the back, two she went to an election and promised the people of Australia that there would be no Carbon Tax under a Government she led, three, she almost won the election and then made deals with various parties ans Independants to secure her position and then reneged on the promises to one of them when she didnt need him anymore. Now if thats your idea of integrity I suggest you go back to school and learn the meaning of the word, or if thats too hard here it is from the dictionary; integrity- honesty, uprightness, none of which can be attributed to our Joolia.

Steve Putnam says:

06:52pm | 13/02/12

Get real, Abbott has been in election mode ever since he lost the last one! That he attempts to woo the electorate sans an alternative vision is a measure of the fool. You might think the sight of this overgrown schoolboy galavanting around pretending to be a truckdriver, a soldier, or a firefighter is appropriate for a would-be PM, but it probably goes a long way to explaining why, despite Gillard’s obvious unpopularity, she is still the preferred PM.

nihonin says:

01:37pm | 13/02/12

‘The rusted on Lib and Lab voters will keep their allegiences but that doesn’t matter’. 

Exactly Warwick and they are irrelevant, unaligned voters will be the ones who make or break this government.  Sycophants and party members are just fun fodder, to be ridiculed and disposed of, go fight your battles in jelly and be entertainment for us. mwahahaha

nihonin says:

01:42pm | 13/02/12

No acotrel, like his good mate nossy (Nosworthy), will say they’ve never voted Labor, they’ll be voting for Bob Katter’s party, yeah I can believe that too.  Bob Katter has as much of a chance of either of them voting for his party as do the Liberals.

O. Reilly says:

04:23pm | 13/02/12

So why did you?

Loxy says:

04:18pm | 13/02/12

Mikey, I sure hope you’re right about the Libs dumping Abbott because while I can’t stand Julia, I dislike Abbott even more. I hope they bring back Turnbull, then they will get my vote for sure!

Martin says:

04:27pm | 13/02/12

They would have been better off with someone popular, or someone who could have convinced the Independents to side with them.

Bob says:

11:22pm | 13/02/12

Martin: Someone popular/more popular, fair enough. This is true for every political party ever. Someone who could have convinced the independents to side with him? LOL NO! You’ve seen what’s happened to Gillard since the 2010 election. That was a Pyrrhic victory that set the stage for a brutal and lasting defeat. The “support” of the independents (particularly the Greens) is pure poison.

Martin says:

08:46am | 14/02/12

@Bob

If you’d prefer to lose elections that’s always fine with me.

Bob says:

09:54pm | 14/02/12

Martin: If you think he’s taking the Liberal party to a lost election, you have a very strange definition of losing. To me it looks like a clear win is coming that won’t involve being manipulated by the Greens or independents (If you think the senate matters, ask yourself how long it’ll take him to call a double dissolution election) Particularly as the votes are still extremely heavily in favour of the Liberals. He might be unlikeable, but we tried someone who was extremely likeable recently and he didn’t last the first term. This time the Australian public seems to want competent. Incompetent leaders of the opposition don’t achieve what he has. (One PM down in record time and the next forced into a disastrous situation that will cost her party several elections)

Martin says:

09:15am | 15/02/12

@Bob

They would have been better off with someone who could have convinced the Independents to side with them at the last election. If you’d prefer to have lost it, that’s fine with me.

Bob says:

11:26pm | 13/02/12

Look up the monthly boat arrival figures (publicly available) and compare the dates with the enacting and dismantling of former Coalition policies. That looks like a solution to me.

nihonin says:

06:40pm | 13/02/12

Nooooooooooooo, it can’t be true, he says yes more often…....once again…..noooooooooooo.

Ryan says:

09:35pm | 13/02/12

@Shaun

Excellent. In that case the ALP will govern forever more.

Bertrand says:

09:18pm | 14/02/12

Careful Bill W - you don’t want to be accused of being me, as I drudge away in ALP headquarters under multiple identities.

Partisans on both sides take criticism of their side, or support for an aspect of the other side to mean that the person making the comments is a one-eyed hack.

People who see everything in black and white are unable to see the giant array of colours in between. Unfortunately, it is too often the colour-blind who contribute so passionately to these debates.