The internet is emerging as one of the big heroes of the pro-democracy, anti-despot movement in the Middle East.

Hasta la Online Victoria Siempre. Pic: Rob Leeson

It’s regarded as being right up there with that courageous Gaddafi impersonator who’s been suggesting absent members of the Libyan army are simply retreating to rest and relax.

Thanks to the cybersphere, Arabic members of generation TXT are using mobile phone cameras to film political violence and then uploading the footage online.

This, in turn, is leading to more civilian fury and more amateur surveillance.

The regime-toppling threat posed by social networking has led one of Hillary Clinton’s senior advisors to describe the communications network as the Che Guevara of the 21st century.

It’s an interesting point (even if we aren’t likely to see suavely bearded and beret-ed pop art images of the cyber tubes on Che-style T-shirts).

But it’s also important not to get too carried away with the celebratory Yay Internet rhetoric.

Yes, the ease and anonymity of online communications is permitting stunning new models of democratisation.

But it’s also propagating disturbing new forms of vitriol. E-bile is no longer pooling only in the darkest digestive folds of the cybersphere: it risks poisoning the entire body internet.

In fact, what used to be called “hate speech” is now a run-of-the-mill online article comment section.

I first noticed this trend when I began including an email address at the bottom of my newspaper columns more than a decade ago.

I’d always received plenty of feisty disagreement in snail mail correspondence, but there was something about the nebulous, untrackable nature of email that sparked a nasty combination of venom and vulgarity.

“Your article reeks of a half ugly lesbian, determined to get her own back on all the men who refused to [insert offensive slang term for sexual relations] her over all these years,” wrote one reader who disagreed with a column on a political issue.

Another went through the list of coerced sexual assaults he thought I should endure before claiming “all feminists should be gang raped” and set to work in “hore” houses.

At the time, I felt singled out. Now, however, it’s clear that such vile, sexually aggressive abuse has become the norm in cyberspace.

Consider the response when CBS television reporter Lara Logan was beaten and sexually assaulted by a mob in Egypt’s Tahrir Square the night former President Hosni Mubarak stepped down.

“OMG if I were her captors and there were no sanctions for doing so, I would totally rape her,” read the conservative blog Mofo Politics.

Commentators on this site who disagreed with the suggestion that the journalist got what she deserved criticised their opponents’ incivility before hurling abuse that made Gaddafi’s “greasy rats” and “drug-fuelled mice” insults seem tame.

One person said they hoped the chat-roomers with whom he, she (or it) disagreed would be assaulted in various bodily cavities until they died.

Nice. And such an effective way to help lift the standard of public debate.

On Yahoo, many posters went for race-themed flaming. “The Pigs of Islam strike again,” wrote one. And from another: “Typical coward low life Muslims…”

Because there’s nothing cowardly or low-living about vomiting viciousness from behind a fake name on the web…

Many critics blame the anonymity of the internet – and what’s been called cyberdisinhibition – for the increase in these sort of toxic exchanges.

But US computer scientist and philosopher Jaron Lanier believes the “culture of sadism” created by internet anonymity has spread from the fringes to the mainstream.

There are now, for instance, many high-profile commentators happy to attach their names to their new media malignance.

“Jesus Christ,” American war correspondent and academic Nir Rosen tweeted after Logan was attacked, “at a moment when she is going to become a martyr and glorified we should at least remember her role as a major war monger.”

He suggested Logan was trying to outdo US journalist Anderson Cooper (who was also physically assaulted in Cairo), adding that “it would have been funny if it happened to Anderson too”.

The thing, the really disturbing thing, about online vitriol is that it’s moved beyond social acceptability and become aspirational: people are engaging in trash-talk competitions to see who can inflict the most emotional damage.

As a result, we’re witnessing the growth of a kind of recreational nastiness which, more and more often, is spilling into non-cyber realms.

In 2006, the family of an American teenager who shot himself endured a year-and-a-half’s worth of prank calls because an organised online group of “death trolls” decided the suicide was amusing.

In Australia, meanwhile, the Federal Government is considering appointing a social network ombudsman to address the lewd defacing of Facebook tribute pages for murdered children.

Such legislative action is essential because the nature of the internet means that e-hate is self-replicating: trolls are making more of themselves.

An example is the spread of racist and sexist stereotypes via Google’s new autocomplete function – that drop-down list of suggested search phrases based on other users’ online activity.

Type in “China is” and the engine’s first suggestion is “China is evil”. Try “women should be” and this phrase is helpfully expanded to offer “women should be obscene and not heard”.

Computer users can obviously make their own search term decisions, but the whole point of predictive web-ware is to use pre-existing routes to generate more traffic.

So, why is it so? Why do so many internet users gain such pleasure from inflicting such pain?

Vandals make elaborate justifications for their activities, claiming on sites such as the “troll archive” Encyclopedia Dramatica that their methods are philosophical and in the name of greater goods.

But their suggestion that people are stupid and weak if they allow themselves to be hurt by words ignores the fact that what death troll victims are really being hurt by is their humanity.

This vision of the troll as hyper misanthrope fits with media comments by celebrity hacktivist Weev who frames trolling as a form of eugenics in that it rids the internet of “retards” who take themselves too seriously.

Predicting a plankton-related Malthusian crisis, the excited question Weev poses to The New York Times is: “How do we kill four of the world’s six billion people in the most just way possible?”

While it’s hard to imagine many punters agreeing with this proposal for friendly genocide, there is a strong case for the pit bull-style muzzling of trolls.

As the world’s political infrastructures expands to permit the democratic aspirations of the Gaddafi-d, so too must its legal loopholes contract to curtail the hate hobbyists.

Emma Jane is a columnist for The Australian.

78 comments

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    • Erick says:

      04:53am | 07/03/11

      For decades journalists like Emma Jane were the only ones who had a public platform to spread their views. Now that monopoly is being broken and they don’t like it. Expect a lot more whingeing and calls for censorship from this mob.

    • marley says:

      08:06am | 07/03/11

      Freedom of speech is a bitch, isn’t it? 

      Not that I wouldn’t like to see a bit more civility out there in the ether, but I can’t really imagine the Manners Police running around charging people with Offences to Good Taste or Breaches of Decorum or Assault with a Vicious Tongue.  What was that old saying about sticks and stones?  Maybe Ms Jane should look it up.

    • Joan says:

      08:42am | 07/03/11

      Yeh… I recall a certain Emma Tomm with her raunchy, in your face language- pieces.  She was at the begining of say what you like,  how you like , and no holds barred .... the net has taken it further to another lower level and gives access to those who want to give a piece of their mind ... and they don’t even get paid. As for anonymity on the net… Oscar Wilde quote` Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth`. Truth is not so bad ... reveals the best and worst in all…. gives a measure of society.

    • grumpy says:

      01:42pm | 07/03/11

      beautiful quote Joan.

    • Kelly says:

      07:43am | 07/03/11

      Erick - the first comment and best example of a tragic soul hiding behind the internet to spout views they would never say in front of others.
      Erick is also a fantasic example of someone who comments on an article they either have not read or if he did, entirely miss the point. Emma is referring to standards rather than the right for people to express an opinion.

    • marley says:

      08:32am | 07/03/11

      Well, actually, I think Erick understood the point better than you -  the phrase calling for “the pit-bull style muzzling of trolls” certainly implies a desire to limit free expression.

    • Markus says:

      08:33am | 07/03/11

      ” there is a strong case for the pit bull-style muzzling of trolls.”
      “As the world’s political infrastructures expands to permit the democratic aspirations of the Gaddafi-d, so too must its legal loopholes contract to curtail the hate hobbyists.”
      Nope, fairly sure she is saying that world governments should infringe on people’s basic human rights just so she doesn’t have to see her world view challenged by people who disagree.

    • Sad Sad Reality says:

      08:54am | 07/03/11

      Kelly, is that not the entire point of the internet? The freedom to say those little truths we hide from others because we know they will immediately lump us into one of the isms (saves them from having to actually investigate our points) and leave us there for the rest of our natural lives? Isn’t this what is amazing about the internet.

    • fairsfair says:

      09:15am | 07/03/11

      Why must you attack Eric as a person Kelly? Never does he ever direct his comments to an individual, he is merely expressing his informed opinion on gender/sex issues. Don’t agree? I don’t care. He is well read, supplies links and often offers a different takes on things.

      I don’t agree with everything he says (nobody agrees with everything another person says), but he offers a non-mainstream view and I appreciate that, even if it differs from my own opinions. Thanks to people like him, Persephone, TChong. MarK, AdamC, Acotrel, Marley etc etc I find myself filtering information through their perceptions also. I am not in agreeance with them at all times, but it makes me look at things through other people’s eyes. How can that be a bad thing? 

      You clearly misunderstood the article as well, because you have anonymously attacked an individual, labelling them a “tragic soul” for simply expressing views that you don’t agree with. Marley is on the money - freedom of speech is a bitch. Get used to it.

    • Phil says:

      07:50am | 07/03/11

      Maybe she is upset she cant keep up with the trolls?
      Trick is not to feed them much.
      As for people harassing family of kids who have been killed (accident, murder or suicide) a suggestion would be if you don’t want people commenting on everything you have said or done stop putting your entire life online for everyone to view all the stupid things you have said and done up until then. The attention seeking youth of today dont see anything wrong with posting every detail of their day to fb, twitter, myspace or whatever the kids are using now.
      If there isnt any fuel the fire wont burn long.

    • L. says:

      07:59am | 07/03/11

      “Expect a lot more whingeing and calls for censorship from this mob.”

      Agreed. While there is a lot of crap out there being spewed by morons, I suspect the “traditional” news outlets are really feeling the pinch of those of us who choose to self publish for free.

    • Dave Sag says:

      08:25am | 07/03/11

      Tech websites like Slashdot (for example) have dealt with trolling and griefing for years using a rather simple, yet smart system of self-moderation.  Logged in site members earn ‘Karma’ points when their posts are ‘modded up’ (ie voted as ‘interesting’ or ‘insightful’ etc) and lose points when their posts are modded down (voted as ‘trolling’ etc) - I believe you get no karma for being voted ‘funny’ as that can swing both ways - and, based on the overall moderation score, and your personal tolerance for trolls, the comments you see get filtered out.  People with enough Karma points get to moderate other people’s comments so the system is quickly self-correcting. In 2000 they introduced a system of ‘meta-moderation’ where regular commenters with high karma get to moderate on the appropriateness of others’ moderations.  It’s all very simple, very democratic and very effective at shaping the discussion to weed out and discourage the trolls.  Yes you still get trolls but they sink to the bottom very very quickly and generally remain unseen by most readers; and trolls hate that, so move to other sites where the commenting system is lamer.

      I am always surprised that ALL forums and comment streams don’t use this simple system.  Go check out http://slashdot.org and see how many truly idiotic comments there are compared to a typical Punch comment stream.

      Another thing that discourages Trolls is making people log in to comment (slashdot allows you to comment as an ‘anonymous coward’ but their posts always start out modded down as a result).

      People are asshats but a well designed commenting system can eliminate most of the grief for most people.  I suggest The Punch have a word with it’s tech people and implement a similar system.

    • Sad Sad Reality says:

      10:12am | 07/03/11

      They had some pretty cool methods of restricting freedom of expression in the novel 1984 too. You should check it out.

    • trentyn says:

      10:17am | 07/03/11

      Its a great system, but moderation in this fashion is sensorship by way of groupthink…. trolls dont get dealt with just hidden away, and people dont give polarising points of opinion anymore.

    • hot tub political machine says:

      11:59am | 07/03/11

      Like trentyn said. Group think is a danger with this system. I remember earlier Punch days when you could count the lefties on this site with one hand, they might not have got a word in back then.

    • Markus says:

      08:29am | 07/03/11

      More crap ‘reporting’ from someone who doesn’t actually understand the nature of the internet. That you seriously used Mofo Politics as an example to prove your point just confirms this, and reinforces the argument that people shouldn’t be able to use the internet before they pass some sort of basic proficiency test.

      As for the rest of your ‘these trolls are destroying society with their hate speech’, you sound as bad as the ‘rock music is the devil’ crowd of the 1950s.
      Don’t go out of your way to find opinions that will offend you, and there won’t be a problem.

    • Cloud Strife says:

      08:49am | 07/03/11

      One of the best examples of the good and bad of this is 4Chan. Anonymous (Because None of Us Are as Cruel as All of Us) do some godawful, horrible things to people, make harmless pranks and then uphold a social justice and attack those deserving of it (such as the Church of Scientology), depending on the day.

      Although it would be nice if Anon didn’t engage in the bad behaviour they can do (such as taunting the family and friends of the An Hero kid), they do wonderful things as well (such as organising a party and gifts for a WW2 vet who didn’t have any family to celebrate his birthday), I think it’s important that they are able to do these things.

    • malohi says:

      10:27am | 07/03/11

      Agree. 4chan is a metaphore for the real internet. I would say 99% of posters on this site do not understand what it represents.

      The internet is not about facebook and social media, it is about freedom of information, opinion and creativity. True freedom, not the PC facade put on to keep society functioning IRL. 
      That means the freedom to express ones opinion or humour even if others find it discusting or “evil.”
      It is not a kids toy or a teen fad. Parents beware.
      /B/ especially is such a bizarre flow of knowledge and conciousness;The real lifestream if you will wink

    • Zeta says:

      10:37am | 07/03/11

      4chan was cool until it started being used as an academic reference in support of internet freedom. Maybe 4-5 years ago it was the edge, now the edge has moved on toward the horizon. The new underbellies of the internet are further out on the fringe. 

      Rules 1 & 2.

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      10:44am | 07/03/11

      4chan is the sphincter of the interwebs…

    • HappyCynic says:

      08:53am | 07/03/11

      Saying what you think anonymously without the courage to repeat it in real life isn’t freedom it’s pure cowardice.  And yes I recognise the irony of posting this under a pseudonym smile

      Homophobes, racists, trolls, misogynists, misandrists etc.  I’d be extremely surprised if even 1% of these cowards had the balls to voice some of their appalling opinions to their closest friends (if they have any) let alone say it in a public forum in real life.

      The only exception might be in dictatorships but even there it eventually requires people with real courage to take the fight offline and in to the streets.

      I don’t think it should be censored though, I just wish people were brave enough to say what they think instead of being fearful, cowering fools.

    • Thommo the Real Life Hero says:

      09:21am | 07/03/11

      I have no problems speaking my mind in public. Only yesterday I had a go at a security guard who was 6 inches taller than me - at least 40 kgs heavier and obviously not all there. he was flirting - read harrassing - two young girls. I told him exactly what he was in no uncertain terms. he then went me - i walked away, leaving him bleeding. Priceless!

    • Sad Sad Reality says:

      10:40am | 07/03/11

      HappyCynic, the vitriol you just spewed, is the reason I will always use a pseudonym. Without a living, breathing person to attach an idea to, you have to deal purely with the idea itself. And this frightens you. A completely free flow of information, unencumbered by the ists, isms and obes you like to label people with. Pure freedom of speech. Isn’t it beautiful?

    • L. says:

      10:46am | 07/03/11

      “Saying what you think anonymously without the courage to repeat it in real life isn’t freedom it’s pure cowardice.”

      Reaslly..??

      try saying something publicly in Iran about the Iranian gov and see how long you last…

      Why do you think the police have anonymous phone lines to report drug dealers..?? So you will be protected.

    • HappyCynic says:

      11:08am | 07/03/11

      @SSR

      No the ideas (or in other more accurate words bullsh*t) that homophobes, racists, trolls, misogynists, misandrists etc spout on a regular basis don’t frighten me at all, they disgust me.  Nothing more, nothing less.  They all seem to apply no logic, intelligence, forethought or indeed any form of rational thinking to their ideas, they merely spew hate for hate’s sake or because they feel some imagined slight against them.

      Freedom of speech combined with the courage to live (and if need be, die) by your convictions, by your sense of right and wrong, is a great thing but putting an idea out there without the fortitude and resolve to stand by your opinions and live by them is meaningless, hypocritical and cowardly and is symptomatic of an empty life governed by an empty head.

    • James1 says:

      11:38am | 07/03/11

      In any case, SSR is a different matter, HappyCynic.

      SSR rarely actually posits any factual basis for their opinions, prefering to just insult whoever they happen to disagree with.  And that is why I love these sorts of discussions - as soon as a person starts to insult, or as per the article say a person should be raped, it is clear they have no factual basis for their arguments and are in fact just an emotive, intellectually undeveloped, undereducated jingoist.

      See SSR in action on any thread about Islam - he/she doesn’t make any effort to substantiate his/her opinions - he/she just calls people cowards, and says (to quote) that “Islam is a cancer” that “must be eradicated”.  Or on the thread about Mardi Gras - all he/she offers is that homosexuals are more disgusting than others, and thus should be kept away from the mainstream population.

      Some might call that free speech and robust debate, but I call it entertaining.  I have come to enjoy it when people respond with insults - it just confirms to me that a point has been made that they do not have the intellectual capacity to respond to.

    • Sad Sad Reality says:

      11:57am | 07/03/11

      Dying for your convictions is what idiots do. The intelligent encourage others to dies for theirs.

    • HappyCynic says:

      12:10pm | 07/03/11

      @James1

      Entertaining?  Sure in a perverse kind of way I guess SSR can be mildly amusing (in a kind of OMG I can’t believe it’s ideas are so stupid) but it’s also disingenuous and quite frankly the entertainment factor wears off after a while.

      My problem is I don’t suffer fools for very long smile

      @L

      I addressed the dictatorship bit a few lines into my comment.  As for cop’s tiplines they’re not avenues for opinions so your comparison isn’t particularly apt.

    • Sad Sad Reality says:

      12:17pm | 07/03/11

      James1,
      1. Read the Koran and the Hadith cover to cover and then read this list of crimes perpetrated this year in the name of Islam.

      http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#attacks

      That will tell you everything you need to know about the Prophet’s religion. And yes the cancer reference was appropriate. How else would you describe an ideology that manipulates the freedom of western democracies until it gains the power to remove freedom for all? This is happening all across Europe right now.

      2. I said the behaviour that goes on at the Madri Gras is revolting. And it is. We have standards of behaviour in our society enforceable by law. One of those standards is indecent exposure. This standard is “forgotten” for the entertainment of a very vocal minority on one night, so as to not appear homophobic. That is not equality. That is unfair preferential treatment. Affirmative action, diversity quotas, race restricted scholarships and benefits all fall under this same banner. It seems inequality is allowed so long as it does not benefit a straight white male.

    • James1 says:

      12:44pm | 07/03/11

      SSR, your error is in attributing the behaviour of the extremist few to the all Muslims.  If Islam truly is as monolithic and all Muslims are the same, how can you account for the 1.1 billion Muslims who didn’t commit a suicide bombing yesterday?  So again, you ignore the facts to put your point together.  Well done on not insulting me though - the restraint you have displayed is admirable.

      I am also against reverse discrimination, masquerading as affirmative action, as it happens.  However, I am certain that if you attempted to put together a similar parade, and had enough community support, no one would stand in your way.  Why not stop complaining about not being able to do it, and try and organise one yourself?  Otherwise, your complaints lack any basis, especially considering no one forces you to watch the Mardi Gras.

    • Sad Sad Reality says:

      01:14pm | 07/03/11

      “If Islam truly is as monolithic and all Muslims are the same, how can you account for the 1.1 billion Muslims who didn’t commit a suicide bombing yesterday?”

      When fighting a war, not every soldier is on the front line.

      “However, I am certain that if you attempted to put together a similar parade, and had enough community support, no one would stand in your way.”

      That’s the thing. You would never receive the community support. As a representative of the majority, you would be told your parade is every day.

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      01:15pm | 07/03/11

      @James1 - don’t bother. There is no talking sense to SSR. All muslims are either extremists, training to be extremists or sleeper cells awaiting their calling to establish a global caliphate in his mind.

    • Sad Sad Reality says:

      01:55pm | 07/03/11

      LBB, show me one Muslim dominated society that is a haven of peace, equality and respect? Case closed.

    • HappyCynic says:

      02:14pm | 07/03/11

      @SSR

      Way to go attempting to hijack the thread to defend your opinions.  But since you’ve already admitted that you lack conviction you have rendered your own opinions completely false, no matter how many links to other people’s biased opinions you provide.

      You know this wouldn’t be a problem if you actually believed the bile spewing from your mouth and were willing to live by your ideas regardless of the consequences.

    • Sad Sad Reality says:

      02:39pm | 07/03/11

      The consequences would be beheading. Excuse me if I’d rather avoid that. I have convictions, I’m just expressing them in the only format that doesn’t require 24/7 security staff. Theo Van Gogh took your advice and look where it got him. Not wanting to die isn’t cowardice, it’s self preservation. I have plenty more opinions to air and I would like to be around to air them. If only to bring a little balance to the standard leftist blather you march out on every topic.

    • HappyCynic says:

      03:15pm | 07/03/11

      @SSR

      How can you be beheaded if you live in a country that outlawed the death penalty years ago (I assume you live in Australia)?  And why do you automatically think that is what would happen?  Are your opinions really that deliberately offensive to a large proportion of the world’s population?

      And I’m not stupid enough to be a “lefty” nor do I support “standard leftist ideals” unless fact based, evidence based opinion and a general intolerance of intolerance and stupidity likes yours is a “leftist ideal”.  But neither am I dumb enough to be a conservative, rather I prefer to play devil’s advocate to both foolish ideals since both are wrong.

    • Sad Sad Reality says:

      03:36pm | 07/03/11

      1. Theo Van Gogh was in a liberal European nation and he was slaughtered for his beliefs.
      2. Because of Theo Van Gogh and the ridiculous world wide rioting that took place after the publishing of mere cartoons.
      3. You believe in nothing. You use your “open” point of view as a way to avoid being associated negatively any ideology, while simultaneously expressing an identical viewpoint, and yet have the hide to accuse others of cowardice. There’s a word for that.

    • Zeta says:

      09:02am | 07/03/11

      I think a few unmoderated nests of hate speech are an acceptable price to pay for, I don’t know, the biggest open communications platform in the history of human civilisation.

      I think we can all wear the hilarious bile of Encyclopedia Dramatica in return for toppling tyranical regimes and conquering the tyranny of distance.

    • Trentyn says:

      10:27am | 07/03/11

      I couldn’t agree more.

      Like it or not some of the biggest trolls going have got their own television and radio programs, frequently in “prime time”. I may never tune into John Laws, or watch Glenn Beck, but they have a following and are looked upto by many. You can’t blame the internet for propogating something that has already been said in other prime time broadcast media.

      Media will continue to evolve and with it will come content that gets edited less, viewed faster and be more polarising. Death to Conservatism? time will tell. The emergence of a world where we are all open and honest? We can but hope.

    • malohi says:

      11:01am | 07/03/11

      The irony of ED always amazes and humbles me.
      it is a humerous satirical take off of “the truth” (wikip)
      in its satire it exposes the truth is generally fraudulent or curiously shaped.
      It comedically points out blatent holes in the accepted truth.
      And then allows unrestricted duiscussion on the reality of the accepted truth. In doing so it often becomes more credible then the original source.

    • Elphaba says:

      11:03am | 07/03/11

      Agreed.

      They bullying thing re: kids is a bit worrying, but if their parents ‘parented’ more, they can stop bullying becoming a 24/7 sport.

      As for trolls, I am guilty of feeding them, but I think there are less trolls on here and more people with wacky opinions.  And sometimes, you have to take the wind out of the sails.

      People doing it for a reaction should just be ignored.  Still, a good online stoush is amusing.

      As for me, for what it’s worth, I would say anything I say on here in public.  People who know me IRL know that. wink

    • Grumpy says:

      03:44pm | 07/03/11

      As acknowledged… moderation should bare with it the consequence of letting the ‘accused’ know what they have done wrong via email. I dont feel this is a huge consequence; seen as most sites are somewhat moderated. Email is another story, as the author discussed. Block is an option but little such when abuse is enclosed in the first message. But as the author mentioned, she left her email at the end of her articles.

    • hot tub political machine says:

      09:19am | 07/03/11

      Yes the trolls suck, but if you where an angry divorced person with a chip on your shoulder you’d probably be nasty online too - and that is why I suspect so many nasty posts seem to be from grumpy bitter old people.

      We should be careful though to mark lines between anger boiling over (which News Ltd deliberately incites by giving certain irresponsible people jobs - cough - Bolt - cough) and pure hate. One is just the nasty trolls, the other is the result of craptastic articles which quite simply do make you think:

      How could this person have such a strong opinion when they can’t be bothered to do any research?

      At the risk of sounding sychophantic though I feel this is posted in the wrong thread, because probably only Emma Jane/Tom will read this comment and she is one of the better opinion writers out there. Even when I disagree - and I profoundly do sometimes - she at least bothers to offer intellegent reasons for her opinion.

    • acotrel says:

      10:06am | 07/03/11

      @ hot tub political machine.  I’m not angry over my divorce, I’ve remarried, and I’m now very happy.  I’m bitter about the eons during which I worked in a job which restricted what I could say in a public forum.  I know what we had, and what we now haven’t got, and I’m very annoyed!

    • MK says:

      03:40pm | 07/03/11

      Ah I see…you’re obviously intelligent - intellegent?  sycophant - sychophant?  were-where? although a spelling lesson wouldn’t hurt, young, happily married and a left winger? Oh and you allow others to have opinions as long as they are not Bolt etc. Ergo you are perfect and espouse freedom of speech of course? As long as it agrees with your view.

      Funny I thought most people were anonymous yet you know so much about them. Lolololol…..bigoted idiot more like

    • Idiot detector says:

      04:06pm | 07/03/11

      MK
      Bolt is the village idiot.
      All the idiots follow him.
      Rational thinkers don’t follow the village idiot.

      If you follow Bolt, I know you will not follow what I just said.

    • Grumpy says:

      04:06pm | 07/03/11

      Im grumpy for other reasons.

    • hot tub political machine says:

      04:33pm | 07/03/11

      MK, I think we have a semi-serious version of Godwin’s law here at The Punch called the Spielling rule - its about ignoring people who fuss overmuch about the spelling. I wholeheartedly agee with it.

      I don’t want to deny Bolt the ability to publish his poorly researched ideas, just think he is totally irresponsible with his position of influence.

      I honestly don’t have the foggiest how your last paragraph has anything to do with my post.

      As for the left wing jibe, I’ll go to my now standard response. I have been called a greens voter, a leftard and a howard fanboy. I just don’t care anymore but I don’t think any of your labels fit. FYI you can be left of Bolt and still very reactionary. I may even be proof of this.

    • marley says:

      07:21pm | 07/03/11

      @HotTub - just curious.  Do you think Bolt is actually that influential? Seems to me the only people that pay him any attention at all are already in his camp. It’s not like he’s persuading the left to move to the right, or even the middle to move to the right.  He’s got his vocal (very) constituency, but is he actually changing peoples’ minds?

      Personally, I doubt it.  My better half, who’s a fairly conservative type, has his own views on political issues and I can assure you they are in no way shaped by Bolt and his ilk.  He has in fact never listened to him/them.  And I’m a middle of the roader, and ignore him totally as well. So I’m wondering, how influential are these shock jocks, really?  Can they in fact swing a single vote?

    • LC says:

      08:51pm | 07/03/11

      @Idiot Detector

      I agree with Bolt’s view on climate change.

      I disagree with the way he argues, often resorting to an excessive use of persuasive techniques, sensationalism and personal attacks to make a point.

      But Bolt is perfectly within his rights to make such commentary. He has as much of right to say it as I have to say I agree but disagree with him and as much as you have to say you hate him. For the 3rd time, freedom of speech applies to EVERYONE, not just those who agree with you and those who do not resort to insults to argue a case.

      And I’d like to congratulate you for dragging yourself down to Bolt’s level.

    • mary says:

      09:19am | 07/03/11

      Excellent points Emma. Todays online hate attitude goes hand in hand with the intolerance seen in society and certainly seems to be growing. Of course if it weren’t for the pseudonyms many of us wouldn’t dare express our opinions so freely. Because even when peaceful opinions are voiced, there’s plenty haters out there looking for targets and willy nilly viciously attacking people expressing non violent opinions. I don’t quite understand how journalists manage to put up with that kinda stuff. Just look at the first comment you receive .. how much does that say about the writer? Nothing really. But how much does it say about the commentator? Everything.

      Of course //there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed// and //every one will give account of every idle word spoken// by my favourite author.

    • Grant says:

      09:26am | 07/03/11

      ahh Emma, poor Emma.

      You love free speech only when it’s non offensive to you.  But when you find something distasateful, you no longer like free speech.

      Fortunately for us, the implied free speech that we have here covers the spectrum of speech from the bad to the good.
      You will just have to deal with it I am afraid.

    • TheRealDave says:

      10:27am | 07/03/11

      Give people the opportunity to be complete arseholes and they will take it most times. The Internet is just another example of this.

      Natural consequence of people shoving their ‘Rights’ down everyone’s throat with no attached Responsibilities.

      Give people the added protection of anonymity and this is how things end up

    • Markus says:

      10:30am | 07/03/11

      An interesting question regarding the Google predictive search results.
      You claim that it is encouraging the minority view of racism and small-mindedness. But given that it is only returning the most searched for results from around the world, it becomes apparent that these views are more common than you think.

      Methinks you don’t like it because it disproves your belief that these ‘hatemongers’ are in the minority, when it is in fact you and your beliefs that the vast majoirty of people are open-minded, accepting and tolerant that are the real minority in this world.

      Interestingly, the top 2 predictives for “Why are Australians…” are ‘why are Australians so hot’ followed by ‘why are Australians so racist’.
      Perhaps there is a correlation between the two? smile

    • hot tub political machine says:

      12:01pm | 07/03/11

      Markus,

      “it becomes apparent that these views are more common than you think”

      -or more common among people with lots of time to spend on the net

    • Sad Sad Reality says:

      12:22pm | 07/03/11

      Logic frightens a lot of people at The Punch, Markus.

    • SamE says:

      12:06pm | 07/03/11

      I think most trolls are conservative by nature.
      Posting outright lies as fact is their trademark.

      Do you wonder why people take the piss out of these right wing zealots?

    • Markus says:

      12:50pm | 07/03/11

      Posting outright lies as fact has no boundary of nationality, gender, ideology or religious affiliation (or lack thereof).

    • Sad Sad Reality says:

      12:52pm | 07/03/11

      The looney left has always had a heavy stake in the truth. Like when Bob Brown said coal mining directly caused the Brisbane floods. Like global warming. You know that truth that led Harold Lewis, Emeritus Professor of Physics at the University of California, Santa Barbara to submit his resignation. He must be a right wing nut job.

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      01:13pm | 07/03/11

      I like trolls. They make your own half-reasonable opinion seem much more factual by comparison.

    • Sad Sad Reality says:

      01:57pm | 07/03/11

      You’ve never voiced a half-reasonable opinion. Half-witted was the term you were looking for.

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      02:14pm | 07/03/11

      At least that makes my opinions half full of wit, that’s more than I could say for yours SSR.

      Is all this troll bashing making you tetchy SSR?

    • Michael O says:

      02:17pm | 07/03/11

      @LauraBoBaura
      that’s funny & oh so true but I have to admit that I hate trolls, they live under bridges & apparently stink. 

      I noticed when the SEQ floods were on there seemed to be a dramatic increase in the number of trolls posting their comments to various public internet forums - I guess they had nothing better to do while the aforementioned bridges were underwater.  Some of their posts were funny (well funny that someone could actually believe the crap that was being written) but a lot of it was just mean and nasty comments written to incite hostile responses from normally sane rational people.

      So when you come across trolls - try not to feed them, it just gives them the energy to continue - and if you do want to feed them for entertainment, try not to sink to their levels.

    • Sad Sad Reality says:

      02:52pm | 07/03/11

      LBB, you’re right. The only thing funny about your comments is that somewhere there is a real person attached to them.

      I’d rather be considered a troll for saying what I truly believe than falling into line with standard hive mind groupthink because I lack the ability to form independent thoughts. Your comments are universally smug and lazy. You excuse behaviour I find inexcusable. When terrorism is brought up you say “they’re not all like that”, not even attempting to explain or condemn the ludicrously high prevalence of Muslim terrorists. This would make you uncomfortable so you avoid it. This makes me question your integrity as a human being.

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      04:03pm | 07/03/11

      Oh SSR, you want some cheese with that whine? As usual, your argument diverges into petty insults & ad hominems, I can only assume this is to make up for a lack of substance.
      If you really believed in what you say, you’d be able to put forward one single argument without resorting to petty insults.

      I’m not getting into the terrorism debate with you again, there is no point, we both have our opinions, and there is no way to see eye to eye.. I have neither the time or the inclination to rehash this with you…
      You are free to question my integrity as a human being however you see fit.

    • Sad Sad Reality says:

      04:49pm | 07/03/11

      You don’t have an opinion on terrorism, LBB, that’s why you won’t offer one. You “have neither the time nor the inclination” to explain yourself yet you have plenty of time to comment on virtually every article on The Punch. You’re avoiding a very simple discussion of your beliefs for one simple reason - you don’t believe in anything.

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      01:31pm | 08/03/11

      Okay fine, I just don’t have the inclination.

      Have a lovely day.

    • Brett says:

      01:56pm | 07/03/11

      Technically Australia doesn’t have freedom of speech.

    • Grumpy says:

      04:03pm | 07/03/11

      agreed, Australia is one of the nations that does not have human rights written in the constitution.

    • malohi says:

      06:51pm | 07/03/11

      It would depend on what you would define as freedom of speech.
      If you were refering to the american notion, we are quite similar, but I assume you know this.

      If you are refering to freedom to say whatever you want whenever you want. i dont know a contry in the world which allows this….

      Internet is a bit differnet as it is so hard to prosecute.. but still not untouchable.

    • Damian Parkhill says:

      09:14pm | 07/03/11

      But however we -are- signatories to the UN charters, which does requires said signatories to respect the rights of freedom of speech.

      And while no doubt there will be the normal “lol who cares about the UN papertiger” when push comes to shove, Nation’s are expected to honor those agreements and I’m reasonably certain if censorship was to come into effect in Aus tomorrow then we could have it overturned in court based on that alone.

    • malohi says:

      09:58am | 08/03/11

      @ Damian.

      I highly doubt that any free speech decision would be overturned on convention grounds considering that it was in fact the High Court of this country who said “lol who cares about the UN papertiger conventions.”

    • michael j says:

      02:08pm | 07/03/11

      Yes i agree the internet is a good outlet for freedom of speech and that it can be an outlet for organized protest ,revolt and kaous but as we can see from the current minor middle east problem,,and the forced religious changes in Afghanistan,,the starving hordes in china from the lack of rain,the wonderful decision by the government of Britain to attempt to destroy their society from within,,but it is most unfortunate the most Aussie pensioners and the other 1/3 of Aussie population living below the poverty line don’t have computers or access to one,it makes it a bit harder to explain the the government that 3 meals a week is only just enough to survive on as things get worse when the Queensland gov. frack and poison all the good farmland we will have to band together to stop being starved while those on the average wageof $1450 a week sit back watching their flat screen tv’s drinking wine and stuffing their faces with cavier every night,,,yes the internet is a valuable tool i hope it will play a big part of change before before Australia goes don the road of those countries named above,,sorry to hear you were abused,but as i said to the police Sargent before the riot at dayboro in 85, don’t judge the many on the actions of a few dick-heads,,the net has to stay free and open,,,,,,,,,,

    • wilma says:

      02:17pm | 07/03/11

      Hate speach has been a part of the Australian media for the last 30 years. Who do you think yo are kidding?
      Havent you read the letters page of the Age any day during the past 20 years?

    • P. Thornton says:

      03:07pm | 07/03/11

      Sometimes it’s about the principle; sometimes it’s about the money; sometimes it’s about the precious ego and the money. And sometimes it’s about all three. Print journalists (dread term!) have been thinking up novel ways to undermine what is, generally, the right that an average citizen (read, not a journalist, writer and/or broadcaster (again, dread term!) has in this so called democratic society to voice (or type) an opinion. Whatever that opinion is, be it mere bilge or beautifully expressed, perhaps we should give the online reading public enough credit to sort the wheat from the chaff. Or is this simply another angle to undermine readers? *insert name of writer, journalist or broadcaster:* arbiter of public opinion.

      One more thing, Ms Jane: grow up (or return to Hicksville).

    • LC says:

      08:15pm | 07/03/11

      Freedom of speech is a two way street Emma. If you support freedom of speech for yourself and for the pro-democratic people in the Middle East, then you must also support it for the trolls.

      Many blog sites have policies which prohibit things which are not illegal (swearing, flaming, unnecessarily inflammatory comments etc), if they breach these terms report them to the site’s moderator . If what they are saying is illegal notify the authorities as well. There are avenues to deal with trolls

    • Col of Blackburn says:

      09:27pm | 07/03/11

      Regarding the recent unsavoury comments to Mr Windsor. He represents what I would have thought is a fairly conservative electorate. Maybe some residents are frustrated with what he is backing in Parliament. Perhaps they should be a bit more civil in their comments.
      There is an old military saying, ‘The most dangerous soldier on the battlefield is not the one with the biggest gun, it is the one with nothing left to lose!’

    • Greg says:

      11:46pm | 08/03/11

      “Trolling” is just a word used by those who want to criminalise opposing opinions on the internet, just as so-called anti-vilification legislation has been used to suppress free speech everywhere else.

      Those who hate the truth call the truth “hate”. Then they criminalise “hatred”, but only enforce the laws for the politically correct “victims”.

 

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