The Government’s asylum seeker policies are all at sea

Steve of Cornubia says:

09:36am | 10/05/11

There are two reasons why this policy will fail: (1) Because it was designed by the ALP and (2) Because it will be administered by the ALP.

You know the old saying. “If you want a job done, give it to a busy person.”? Well there is another: “If you want a job stuffed up, give it to the ALP.”

LeftRightOut says:

12:29pm | 10/05/11

How does the 800 figure (and forget not, this is the best case number, 4000 incoming is assured, Malaysia will take UP TO 800) stack up as a percentage of boat arrivals?
Less than 8% sound about right?
Meaning, as a deterrent, they still have a 92% chance of residency in Australia?
What a farce, and what a rubbish article by Tory - hard to believe I know.

Ben81 says:

02:02pm | 10/05/11

The fact that Nauru isn’t a signatory means had no significance in the first place, it’s just a weak excuse for the government to save face a bit and only have to be seen to admit they were 95% wrong instead of 100%.

Really, how does a little island signing a piece of paper that obligates them to take in refugees on their own that arrive there help refugees when that piece of paper won’t magically give them the resources to do that?  It’s just a dumb argument.  Look where excuses like that have gotten us since 2007.

George says:

07:52am | 10/05/11

@ATM

Mate’ I hope you don’t mind…..mwah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha.

Marilyn Shepherd says:

02:43pm | 10/05/11

There is a regional plan, there is a world wide plan, it’s called the refugee convention that is a legally binding humanitarian treated ratified and adopted by 147 nations.

It’s just our bad luck the poms stole a country in the region of the world’s worst human rights abusers.

You ask why Malaysia?  Because they have vast experience in selling refugees as slaves, trading children as beggars, forcing refugees to go home and many Malaysians are handy with a cane.

So let’s ask another question.

When any Afghan who has been been born after 1973 arrives in Australia they will have this life experience.

1.  The overthrow of the democracy by the fundamentalists and exile of the king in 1973 which resulted in anarchy, mass murders, rapes, genocide against the Hazara (who are most of those who come here) and other atrocities.  All traces of the western type of society were removed from Afghanistan, universities burnt and looted and the standard of living started to drop.
1979.  The invasion and occupation by Russia when 7 million people had to flee, over 1 million Afghans were slaughtered and rape and child trading was endemic.
1980’s Charlie Wilson’s war which saw the rise of the rapists, mass murderers, drug barons and war lords,  the crippling of Russia and their withdrawal thanks to the CIA along with Israel, Saudi Arabia and Egypt and Pakistan.
1989 The take over of the above named rapists and murderers.  General Dostam who is now our great government friend killed 50,000 people in Herat, mosty Hazara.
1992.  The complete destruction of most of Afghanistan by the above named mass murderers and he flight of millions and the murder of hundreds and thouands of Afghans in a scorched earth policy.  It was this mob who demanded that women wear the burkha, that girls cannot go to school or work.
1994.  Benazir Bhutto and Bill Clinton help from the taliban from the madrassas full of angry young Afghan refugees in Pakistan for decades who they set loose in Afghanistan who are praised for bringing order and getting rid of the drugs.
2001 Bush finalises a plan to attack Afghanistan in July because the Taliban who were his mates until May 2001 refused to let a pipeline be built from the Caspian Sea through Afghanistan to the ports in Pakistan.
September 11, some Saudis attack the US, a month later we attack Afghanistan to punish some dead Saudis.  WE have occupied Afghanistan now for nearly 10 years.

My own daughter was born in 1973 and her biggest trauma is to have been abandoned by her worthless father.

For all those who continue to whinge that Afghans are economic migrants, read their history and get over it.

Mad Maz says:

03:31pm | 10/05/11

scratching me head here - can’t for the life of me work out why her “worthless father” would have left…..

Kev says:

05:15pm | 10/05/11

You nailed it Mad Maz.  You must be a lot of fun at a party Marylin!

Robert Smissen, rural SA, God's own country says:

09:00pm | 10/05/11

Mad Maz I’m with you, I hope I get an invite to Marilyn Sheperd’s next party, sounds like it could be fun

Robert Smissen, rural SA, God's own country says:

09:14pm | 10/05/11

Marilyn, what has you daughter’s father got to do with all this, what has your misanthropistic bent have to do with refugees,? ? I suggest you seek help before it’s too late

Anthony of WA says:

08:18am | 10/05/11

Freddo, no worries mate the pensioners are all sorted with the free set top box. Makes you want to cry. And no worries about the 16 million $ short fall in the budget revenue, it was well wasted on the Building the Education revolution

Johnny says:

07:55am | 10/05/11

It;s a good thing that she has woken up to herself chongy,enjoy your green tea

Rosie says:

07:57am | 10/05/11

Chongy

It is people like you that make me bloody sick. You turn around and say Gillard is appaling and blame the LNP because she is trying out their policy and give no solution to the problem. No wonder this country is in a mess! You guys should be telling Gillard to do better. These are human beings and it is our moral obligation to treat human beings in the most humane way we can possibly can. We are also a developing country and can afford to handle the problem the way we fit to do so.

Read Super D comments and mine when it is posted. Surely we can be bipartsian on this one. I don’t mind taking in the 4000 but I object to sending asylum seekers to live in hovels under squalid conditions with their dignity and self esteem stripped away from them.

TimB says:

08:27am | 10/05/11

Well I agree with your first sentence….

TChong says:

08:32am | 10/05/11

Good morning Rosie!
Youve taken time out from reading “News Of The World” ?
I agree with you.
“They"are human beings.
thats why it is such a shame , from a humanity / humanist POV to see The ALP try to outdo The LNP when it comes to playing tough .
Gillard should do better, hence my first post.
Good to see where both fighting the good fight , Rosie.

JohnB says:

08:53am | 10/05/11

With respect Rosie, you have no idea. There are millions and millions and millions of people in the world living far worse than the refugees trying to get here. They are far too poor and undernourished to have the energy to board the boat.

Perspective please. We will ruin Australia by taking a tiny, miniscule fraction of global poor, or hardly done by. We cannot do anything but encourage other countries to manage their populations (while we do the same), and feed those we can before our government fills us up with too many people rendering our possible aid useless..

If you get it Rosie, spread the word, we are well and truly running out of time.

Please view this youtube, I hope it’ll change the way you view the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE

Nafe says:

09:01am | 10/05/11

Chongy I agree.

This policy is more inhumane that the Pacific solution ever was. We are now in the people trading business now?

I am a supporter of the pacific solution as it was a place for the boat people to be while they were being processed. Sure it was uncomfortable but it was safe. They still have the opportunity to become Australians.

I also support the TPV because it made sure the assylum seekers were kept in a safe place but also had the opportunity to contribute to society. A TPV did not prevent any holder to become Australian and get permanent residency if they were of good charictor and were willing to contribute.

This new scheme is sending these boat people into a dangerous and unsafe environment and can not be condoned, even by liberal supporters. People trading is not the business Australia should be in.

Dash says:

09:07am | 10/05/11

Sorry Chongy but this is not LNP policy and you know it. Every time the ALP fuck up, lefty fools try to somehow blame the opposition! Malcom Farr tried that one yesterday on the Punch.

Fact is, this mess is 100% the doing of the ALP! The LNP do not have a policy to outsource our border protection to Malaysia!!!!! They do not have a policy that sends one person to another country only to accept 5 in return!!!!! They did not say there would be no onshore detention centres and then build three on shore detention centres!!!! They did not shut down Naru!!!! They did not rdismantle the Howard government’s policy or announce an East Timor Solution that never existed. They did not lie to the Australian people about policy which was never going to happen!

Wake up to yourself! And when will you hold the ALP accountable for government rather than make excuses for them every time they screw things up. This policy announcement will cost the Australian taxpayer at least $200m just to accept 4,000 people from a country that hasn’t signed the international agreement Gillard holds up as fundamental!!!

The ALP are a JOKE!

Rosie says:

10:32am | 10/05/11

JohnB

Why should I get my cue from someone else? If you don’t bloody understand where I am coming from try what TChong and Nafe have to say because I agree with them.

This is not about Gillard or Tony Abbott it is about the a well developed, well educated, civilised country in the 21st century that I am a citizen of. I object to sending human beings to live in hovels and squalid conditions. Stop them from coming here, not take a tough stance to deter them from coming here by sending them to live in hovels and squalid conditions which is also unsafe.

Perspective please!

JohnB says:

11:19am | 10/05/11

So what are your ideas to stop them coming here Rosie? There will always be those willing to take the chance to enter paradise. I agree with you. It’s better to stop them coming, than to deal with them once they’re here.

Once they are here government MUST take action that is not simply walking into Australia. There must be deterrent for all the reasons I’ve previously outlined. For me, it’s not about asylum seekers, it’s about more people.

DavidK says:

12:07pm | 10/05/11

JohnB

There was a policy that stopped the boats that worked, try that one. Once they arrived here we took care of them the way we wanted to which was in a humane way. We were the boss, we didn’t pay others to take care of them.

greg says:

12:50pm | 10/05/11

This is what happen when Bob rules the place.

JohnB says:

12:59pm | 10/05/11

So true DavidK.

So it turns out the Greens/Labor joke are actually inhumane because they are so incompetent. How could anyone with any intelligence not predict that if you reverse all the stuff Liberal implemented over time, there’d be an avalanche of poor soles trying to enter Australia? How long does this country have to put up with this? Can we have an election please Mrs Governor General? We can’t take any more!

Mark says:

01:33pm | 10/05/11

@ JohnB

“We will ruin Australia by taking a tiny, miniscule fraction of global poor, or hardly done by.”

How ?

JohnB says:

02:47pm | 10/05/11

My point is Mark…“We will ruin Australia by taking a tiny, miniscule fraction of global poor, or hardly done by.” ....because this would be a huge number…That is how. Please recognise world population grows by 80 million a year. That’s not a typo, and most growth is in third world countries. So, if you want to do the best for the most people. Stop ALL immigration to Australia, stop any further OS sale of farm land, and encourage other countries to control population. We can hope to provide food to other countries. BUT even with our present population, this is short term as our agricultural production is declining because of all sorts of reasons including desertification and degrading soils. That’s the best we can do. Anything else is ill thought out rubbish that ignores the horrendous growth in human population. Bring in the FACT of depleting oil, and we’re in some really big trouble really soon. That’s what I meant Mark.

Mark says:

03:24pm | 10/05/11

@ JohnB

So now you’re claiming that we should “stop ALL immigration to Australia”, and that “we will ruin Australia by taking a tiny, miniscule fraction of global poor, or hardly done by”, but you haven’t said how. Nor have you said how we’d “stop any further OS sale of farm land”, whatever that’s supposed to mean. That was a typo, wasn’t it?

JohnB says:

03:52pm | 10/05/11

It’s occurred to me you’re not going to get it Mark. You can’t justify your position so you turn to petty insults? Your position doesn’t make sense and cannot be supported with logic. If you had a counter argument to what I have said, you would have posted it! OS means over seas…It’s not hard Mark, honest. Read everything I’ve written before criticising.

JohnB says:

03:57pm | 10/05/11

What do you mean “how” Mark? Have you fallen for the “we’ll have a population of 50 million by 2050 whether we like it or not” line by weak politicians? My argument is “how” don’t we have control of our population?

Are you Juliar Gillard, Mark?

Pretty Obvious really says:

04:40pm | 10/05/11

JohnB
“You can’t justify your position so you turn to petty insults?”
followed by
“Are you Juliar Gillard, Mark? “

I guess you can’t justify your position.

Mark says:

04:51pm | 10/05/11

@ JohnB

How do we “not have control of our population”?

And what do you mean by “OS sale”, and how would be stop them, whatever they’re supposed to be?

Robert Smissen, rural SA, God's own country says:

09:20pm | 10/05/11

Honorable Mr. Chong, detention centres were first opened under the government of the Honorable Mr Paul Keating LABOR, the only thing John Howard did was to make them work. Perhaps Julia could hire John as a consultant

michael j says:

10:31pm | 10/05/11

@JohnB—thanks for the link ,i have been looking for more stuff on the Great Famine Wars to take place in 40/50 many dead they predict ?
found a report the USA can only support 200 million on self production,
so they are already 100 million over pop,,QLD is trying to destroy lots of farmland fracking for GAS ,heap of salt, poisoned water table and whatever else, if the numbers the presenter is using are even close,,all the really wealthy countries in the World should,,, opps,,,that sort of means Australia,see as we are the only country surviving the GFC arr,
ok maybe Germany too ,,or anyone getting more than $ 20 a day pitch in’
no that wont work ,,yes it will make their homes nice places where they can get a feed then they won’t want to come here ,,,where in 25 years time we will have people staving without a roof on there head because
we will be overpopulated ,,and if China wants its cash back we’ll be in deep anyway ,Australia has been sold ,,and i hope China knows Rudd was only joking when jules caught him out with the remark the USA keep more of an eye on them ,because their sphere of interest is moving to far south,,i suppose that may be why we signed the agreement with the yanks to support them with their use of Cluster Bombs,?

nossy says:

09:13am | 10/05/11

@Rosie - good morning Rosie. I was stunned by your last statement “have an asylum seeker’s levy, I am willing to pay” - a redhot Lib willing to pay a levy ! I shall note that down. Reminds me of old Johnny GST’s levies he imposed - the Ansett levy, Timor levy and so on - yes we Aussies are used to paying levies so bravo Rosie for proposing an “Asylum Seekers” levy !  hahahah Enjoy the Budget Rosie - HMAS Welfare is to be sunk !

TChong says:

09:39am | 10/05/11

See Rosie.
Despite all your Conservativeness, and you not feeling well, here we are , nossy and me , being friendly and nice to you.
How about some “good mornings “from you, in return , dear Rosie?
Show the world how nice you really are .

Rosie says:

10:58am | 10/05/11

Good morning Nosthow & Chongy

Don’t get too excited. I haven’t changed sides and can’t see the two of you coming over to my side. If Tony Abbott suggested such a thing I would be up in arms about it. We need to be in control all the time, not allow other countries to do the dirty work for us. I have always advocated that detention centres whether here or off shore should be controlled by our govt, we can at least let them know that human beings are living in hovels under squalid conditions.

Let us forget politics for a change and deal with what I object to and that is sending human beings to live in hovels under squalid conditions. How could we, well developed, well educated people, civilised country in the 21st century be so unkind to shove them off to live in a third world country under horrible conditions.

The UNHCR must be out of their minds!

Where are the humanitarian advocates, Get Up, Greens etc??????

Dash says:

09:00am | 10/05/11

Yep, $50,000 per person we take from Malaysia. For 4,000 that means the Australian taxpayer forks out $200m!!!!!

Not to mention the fact that for every one we send to Malaysia, they send 5 to us!! We’ve outsourced our border protection to Malaysia!

The ALP clearly are a bunch of numptys who wouldn’t know if their arses were on fire!

Super D says:

08:44am | 10/05/11

You’ll never be a Liberal.  You lack the common sense gene.  Oh and the comedy gene.

Michael says:

08:50am | 10/05/11

Your comments Nossy, like your preferred Government are on the nose with the majority, cheap slogans and moving forward with your eyes on the past, at least we aren’t as bad as we make out Tony Abbot to be.

Run out of puff, blew all their shitty ideas in the first schemozzle of a term, now have to use old Liberal policies to get any traction on ....anything really.

But that’s ok, you Nossy, like Persephone, Acotrel lol and Mal Farr will all be remembered as supporters of this Government and the Rudd government before it. Rusted on Labor supporters, anything Labor does is a win for you guys because at the very least it isn’t a Liberal government.

Dash says:

08:56am | 10/05/11

@nossy - Let me quote Kevin Rudd from 2007 - “Labor’s policy is that if people are intercepted on the high seas, then the vessel should be turned around” - ALP LIE

Labor will take “a very hard line… a very tough line on people smuggling” Yet, Labor weakened border protection laws and by January 2, 2011, the number of unauthorised arrivals under the ALP had passed 10,000. - ALP LIE

The ALP also promised “no onshore detention centres” yet they have announced plans to build at least three! ALP LIE!!

Given you’re balanced view of things nossy (lol) - Where’s the ALP policy? Where’s the ALP direction? Where the East Timor Solution that Gillard stood up before the election and announced to the world? The East Timorese governmnet were not even approached about it! It never existed, and it will never exist. ALP LIE!!

We now have our border protection out sourced to Malaysia. And Malaysia is not a signatory to that international agreement Gillard keeps telling us is fundamental. And to make matters worse, Gillard has agreed that for every person we send to Malaysia, they can send us 5!! WTF???

And the Australian taxpayer will pay $50,000 for everyone of them to get here. That’s $200m that the Australian taxpayer will fork out because of the ALP’s “direction for the future of Australia”.

And you support that?? You have rocks in your head mate!

fairsfair says:

09:01am | 10/05/11

Seriously though Nossy, I don’t get the “no policy” caper that everyone is going on about.

Did you watch Q&A last night?

I thought it rather interesting. Lindsay Tanner sat there and said that the coalition have no policy on asylum seekers baring the slogan of stop the boats. Everyone clapped him. Ummm… last time I checked they had a very functional and effective policy that was tried and tested. A policy that sought to stop the act of people trafficing allowing for a more systematic acceptance of asylum seekers via legitimate means. The infrastructure is already there for god sake. They have said countless times that they would revert to their old policy perhaps with some minor amendments to deal with volume.

Which brings me to my next point….

Tanner’s “Sideshow” seemed to be all about the media response to politics and their focus on trivial information. I think this sloganism issue is one such piece of trivial information. There are policies, there are old ones and new ones, but people are to preoccupied with focusing on the slogans that were mentioned in passing months ago, to even give a sh*t.

I was mighty frustrated by Q&A last night, but it was a good program.

Oh and I and pretty much everyone I know are saying NO NO NO (sometimes even a nooooooooooooooooooooooooo followed by tears) to everything and anything this government does - I think Tony Abbott is simply voicing what a lot of people now want. Awkward, because they don’t seem to want him, but they want his government. Maybe the media could do eveyone a favour and stop the sideshow. That Tanner is on to something.

Dash says:

09:10am | 10/05/11

@Super D - yes nossy is as funny as a fart in a space suit!

Liz says:

09:39am | 10/05/11

Stop the batts, stop the batts.  Please stop the batts.

Would you have been laughing so hard if one of your family members had been electrocuted under the Labor government’s costly and conveniently forgotten pink batt policy ? 
Three young people died after the Rudd Gillard government was thoroughly warned following the first tragedy.
Several good and decent people called for that programme to be suspended, but the Rudd Gillard outfit failed to act.

Pink Batts. That slogan has smeared the Labor Party’s lifetime legacy.  Forever, it will remind many of us about the most unforgivable, unforgettable Labor “policy”  in Australian political history.
Stop the batts, stop the batts. 
I don’t hear anyone in my house laughing.

Naverly Klitgaard says:

10:28am | 10/05/11

Liz says: “Stop the batts, stop the batts.  Please stop the batts”

No, no. Release, RELEASE the batts;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaWn0qcRYFA

Check out 2:22, “you win, you got the stick…” That was a contest worth winning. Here, you don’t even get a stick and there’s never any winners, anyway.

Rosie says:

11:04am | 10/05/11

Please Nosthow,

Here you go, silly again. You need to behave and for once forget about Tony Abbott and come on board on this one with me and all other caring civilised Australias.

LeftRightOut says:

12:39pm | 10/05/11

Indeed… and to extend Tory’s “logic”, she is admitting then, that the ALP are responsible for resumption of trade of the people smugglers.
Fact is, when Rudd/Gillard softened the laws, they did so for purely symbolic purposes, there were no boats coming, so therefore, no “inhumane” treatment of arrivals.
Blame for the explosion in arrivals is inescapable for the ALP, and so if they DO stop the boats arriving, then it must follow the labor caused them to start in 2008.
To follow further, Labor then, are directly responsible for the deaths of ~200+ people at sea, probably significantly more.

I think Tory’s analysis is flimsy at best, not even at high-school level - try again, Tory. (or, just close with the tagline; “Vote Labor”)

Steve says:

04:19pm | 10/05/11

Tory, I think haggling over direct or in direct responsibility is a waste of time. Can we settle on saying the ALP has blood on it’s hands? This big disaster sticks in our minds of course but there have been multiple other lives lost on people smuggling boats which by their nature didn’t receive much media attention.

Ryan says:

04:56pm | 10/05/11

No, Steve, we can’t, unless you’d like to claim that the Coalition have the blood on their hands of the 353 people who perished aboard the SIEV X.

Steve says:

05:33pm | 10/05/11

Ryan. In October 2001 when SIEV X sunk Howard had been operating under the same laws as the previous Labor Govt.  SIEV X plus increasing boat numbers lead Howard to change the laws and we saw boat numbers reduce. That is a far cry from reversing the laws and causing the boat numbers to increase again with the resultant and predictable loss of life. It would be a bit like saying Howard had the blood of Port Arthur victims on his hands because he introduced gun laws after the disaster. If however someone reversed Howard’s gun laws and there was a further massacre then that person would surely have blood on there hands don’t you think Ryan?

Ryan says:

06:26pm | 10/05/11

No, Steve.

The 353 people who perished aboard the SIEV X did so when the Coalition were in government, under their laws. Nothing that happened before or after that changes that fact. I didn’t say Howard had blood on his hands then, or since, but obviously you did.

MarK says:

08:38pm | 10/05/11

”  Tory Shepherd says:

  03:56pm | 10/05/11

  Will do, Joel - six months from actual implementation, yeah? So once it’s signed off, I’ll put it in the diary.”

I will hold you to this too Tory.

It will not be too effective actually.

Think about it.

First thing that will happen is they will flock to the people smugglers to try and get here before the thing is signed so I think taking it from the sign date is a bit cheap but never mind I won’t call bullshit on it.

What you will find that will happen is more people will come out with the full family unit AFTER the sign off - assuming it happens.

Do you really think Gillard will send woman and children to Malaysia. It is not a nice place. It makes a mockery of Labor’s “compassion”.

But in any case can you imagine Labor say selecting the Mum to go back and not send the kid too? Can you see them sending Dad back without Mum or the kids? Would they send a whole family back?

Nahhh. Even Marr and Burnsde

It will be just single men sent back. Just don’t be a single man for a while. Bring the wife and kids. Endanger the whole family on the trip over.

I mean really do you think a family rate will not be offered by the smugglers?

You need to think deeply about this and the political ramifications.

You can’t split families and survive politically.

You can’t send woman and kids to be raped or beaten or caned in Malaysia.

It is a no brainer for families to make the trip now.

Labor must be praying for a boat load of woman and kids NOT going down in sight of Centrelink Island. That would not be a good look on Prime Time.

I personally cannot wait for the legal battles of those chosen to be sent to hit the courts. And won’t those pictures of people being dragged onto to the plane to be sent to Malaysia play well.

Plenty more to this than a “fix”.

Remember Malaysia has bent us over and got a 5 for 1 swap. Malaysia will select who comes and goes. We will pay for it all. And all this from the woman that had “fixed” the problem with East Tiomor. Had solved the health mess. Had solved the mining tax. Had promised no carbon tax.

All these things have turned to crap - amongst others.

Steve says:

12:07pm | 11/05/11

Ryan. I can play your silly game too. I didn’t say that you said Howard had blood on his hands. I certainly never said Howard had blood on his hands, in fact my post mounted the argument that he did not have blood on his hands. I did argue that the ALP has blood on it’s hands for reversing Howard’s tougher laws.

Ryan says:

04:54pm | 11/05/11

@ Steve

The 353 people who perished aboard the SIEV X did so when the Coalition were in government, under their laws. Nothing that happened before or after that changes that fact.

Steve says:

06:35pm | 11/05/11

Ryan. Why are you still banging on about SIEV X when we have both agreed that Howard does not have blood on his hands?  The thrust of my posts has been that the Rudd/Gillard Govt does have blood on their hands because they changed the laws. Relaxing border security had the predicable effect of more boats with loss of life being inevitable at some point by weight of numbers making a perilous journey.

Ryan says:

11:11pm | 11/05/11

Wrong, Steve.

“In October 2001 when SIEV X sunk Howard had been operating under the same laws as the previous Labor Govt.”

The thrust of your posts is that Howard does have blood on his hands because he didn’t change the laws.

Steve says:

12:06pm | 12/05/11

WTF Ryanne. You have worn me down. You win.

Ryan says:

02:57pm | 12/05/11

@ Steve

It’s the families of those whose lives were lost you should be apologising to for trying to use their deaths to make political attacks.

marley says:

09:00am | 10/05/11

Now I’m probably stressing the obvious here, but the term “asylum seeker” means that, well, you’re seeking asylum.  So, an Afghan arrives in Pakistan - but he can’t seek asylum there because Pakistan doesn’t grant asylum.  He flies to Malaysia, but can’t seek asylum there because Malaysia doesn’t grant asylum.  On to Indonesia, but he can’t seek asylum there because Indonesia doesn’t grant asylum.  So, it’s on to Australia, which does grant asylum, and which is the only country he’s touched which does.  So, he’s doing exactly as you require him to do.

Rosie says:

09:19am | 10/05/11

PC

It is our problem, let us deal with it! We don’t shove them off else way especially to hovels and expect human beings to live in squalid conditions. Australia is a civilised well developed country let us behave like civilised educated human beings and treat other human beings in a civil manner.

If children are involved what do you do then? At least with the Howard solution we were in control and we treated them in a humane way of what is a global problem.

Bloggs says:

11:55am | 10/05/11

There are many countries close to Afghanistan that DO accept asylum seekers and that HAVE signed the UN conventions.  It is far cheaper and easier to get to those countries from Afghanistan than to get to Australia.

So why come to Australia if it is easier to get to legitimate countries that do grant asylum?

Because Australia has a stupid weak Government that allows them to enter and receive free everything: food, welfare, money, preferred status…. everything at the expense of the Australian taxpayer who in general hates the Government for doing it.

It’s a mess.  It’s a political and humanitarian mess.  And it should not be our problem halfway around the world.

I will, however, swap 800 Christian hating missionaries from a bunch of people who hate us but want to come here anyway, for some Burmese people who I expect may have a better idea about working for a living and having basic manners.

PC says:

12:58pm | 10/05/11

@ Rosie

I’m sorry, but people who use their kids to gain the sympathy of our nation and therefore, entry through a back door, don’t deserve the time of day much less asylum.

Dash says:

11:10am | 10/05/11

Yep, not one ounce of credibility left for this ALP.

They sent a letter to all private health insurers in 2007 where they said they would not touch the private health tax rebate. Tonights budget will announce that the ALP will means test the rebate. The industry expects that over 1million Australians will significantly reduce or stop their private health cover as a result. This will put enormous pressure on the public health system and on medicare. The idea of the rebate in the first place was to encourage those that could afford private health to pay their own way. Now those contributing the most in medicare levy (myself included) will jusat reduce their cover or stop it completely and put the family onto the public health care system. FOOLS!

And yes, East Timor was announced to the world when it never existed. She didn’t even have the decency to talk to the East Tinmorese government about it!!! Disgraceful. And now we have this joke of a deal which is going to cost taxpayers $200m! And we receive 5 for every one we send to Malaysia!

The carbon tax is the biggest socialist fraud ever perpetrated on the Australian public. She was so desparate to become PM she pulled her pants down and bent over for Bob Brown! I’m sick of this woman!

Joan says:

02:01pm | 10/05/11

Suffer in your jocks, appalling embarrassing losers. Last time I checked Julia Gillard was Prime Minister.

Dash says:

03:32pm | 10/05/11

Yeah Joan, shame she had to spend $11billion of taxpayers money in bribes to independents and the greens to get there! The only PM not to be voted for twice!

Joan says:

05:01pm | 10/05/11

And the funny part is that’s exactly the amount of the black hole in Tony Abbott’s election “promises” costings. Suffer in your jocks, Dash.

MarK says:

05:10pm | 10/05/11

Who wears undies Joan.

Commando all day everyday me

Joan says:

06:31pm | 10/05/11

Suffer anyway, Mark. You’re still an appalling embarrassment, and Julia Gillard is still Prime Minister.

NicoleG says:

07:44pm | 10/05/11

‘Joan’, take a firm grip of both shoulders and kindly pull your head out of your arse. The only embarrassment here is Gillard. She may be PM now pet, but not for long. And when I say she may be PM now, that’s only in title. We all know who pulls her strings.

Joan says:

12:27am | 11/05/11

Another sad and sorry sore loser, eh, Nicole? You’ve been sooking “not for long” since last year, and yet here we are in May.  You can’t patronise me, pet.

Dash says:

01:27pm | 11/05/11

Joan ha ha, at least I can manage to keep mine on!

NicoleG says:

03:36pm | 11/05/11

I already did.

Joan says:

04:57pm | 11/05/11

No, Nicole. You tried and failed, just like your beloved Coalition, pet.

Rosie says:

11:22am | 10/05/11

Sugar Glider

That is the reason why we have Govts and pay our taxes. It is not my problem. I am fighting for the 800 human beings that will be sent to a third world undeveloped country to live in hovels and squalid conditions. Use my Rosie coloured glasses and you will not need to see what is happening in the UK and other European countries! Surely this nation is old and ugly enough to stand on its own two feet without relying on what other nations are doing.

Bloggs says:

12:46pm | 10/05/11

Once again, Rosie, you completely miss the point.

The sugar glider is telling you to take off those rose coloured glasses and look at the problems in Europe that they now suffer from uncontrolled migration from people whose culture and way of life is alien to their own. The religious riots at Sydney a couple of years ago is the beginning.

There exists much religious intolerance due the to demanding ways of the Islamic community and the resultant problems are what is plaguing Europe, and what we are building into our own communities now.  And with these people still sucking up welfare after as much as 5 years, unwilling to work whilst you and I pay taxes, then these problems will become steadily as bad as they are in Europe.

So please take those damn rose coloured glasses off, look at the real world, and get real.  Australia is not in a position to save the world, not even a fraction of it.  But if we are to offer succour to some then let’s offer it to those who share our ideals and are closer to our cultural norms and keep the peace. If you prefer we end up like France with it’s many Islamic no-go areas where the authorities cannot send police in to keep the peace, or an ambulance or fire truck because it will get attacked…. Then perhaps you should emigrate to that country.  We really do not want those European problems here,  and yet you would have the Government build these in to our everyday lives. That is the lesson for you.

David says:

01:50pm | 10/05/11

Bloggs

No one is asking Aust to save the world, however, it is in the position to save the 800 human beings from being sent to third world countries to live in replusive, dirty, poor in appearance places.

Bloggs says:

04:04pm | 10/05/11

David
You preach compassion, but are willing to leave 5000 Burmese people to live in repulsive, dirty, poor in appearance places. .  I sense some hypocrisy here….

Vaunted says:

09:44am | 10/05/11

Next cab off the rank: “The Great Set Top Box Rip-off Debacle”. Watch this space… Meanwhile back at the ranch, pensioners shiver, unable to meet their mounting power bills jacked up by the cost of subsidising solar panels for the roofs of the burgeoning public employee sector.

Dash says:

09:54am | 10/05/11

@dovif you forgot a few:

Promise of 260 childcare centres never delivered
Promise of a coast Guard - never delivered
Promise of root and branch tax reform - never delivered
Promise of cash for clunkers - never delivered
Promise to deliver More affordable housing - never delivered
Promise to deliver cheaper better childcare - never delivered
Promise to abolish compulsory uni union fees - never delivered
The East Timor Solution announced when it never existed
I fully support PM Rudd - LIE
I have more chance of playing full forward for the dogs - LIE
I was only a member of the Socialist forum in my 20s - LIE
We will not touch the private health tax rebate - LIE
I’m a fiscal conservative - Ah no you’re the biggest spending PM in our history.
Spent more on consultancies in it’s first two years than any government in our history.
2020 summit - LOL

People seem to have very short memories. And for some reason, many in the media continue to make excuses for what is easily the worst government in our history.

Geoff - Brisbane says:

10:14am | 10/05/11

Don’t forget conroy’s internet censor

Steve says:

01:50pm | 10/05/11

Promise to give every school kid their own lap top.
Promise to fix the hospitals within 18 months (from 2007) or nationalises them
Second promise to fix the hospitals
promise to be economic conservatives just like Howard/Costello
promise to narrow the gap between aboriginal and non aboriginal
promise not to means test health care rebate
promise to reform political advertising

Against the Man says:

03:14pm | 10/05/11

John A Neve you have something to say about this? Oh thats right, mummy is making chicken noodle soup for you tonight.

Seano, any comments? Oh thats rights, you are too busy ‘teaching’ students!

Classic losers in hiding!

Steve says:

01:04pm | 10/05/11

Lets hope they are all Burmese Dean. I think Burmese will intergrate very well and will be hard workers. They will really appreciate a chance in Australia and make the most of it. I can’t see a Burmese monk whipping up a frenzy of hate against their new country. I can’t wait for a Burmese restraunt to open near me (what is their food like?) The children born to these Burmese will consider themselves Australian and support mainstream values. I think they will be as successful as European and Vietnamese immigrants.

OMG35x92 says:

10:20am | 10/05/11

Gillard is using Pauline Hansons policies to win over the few percentage points that have deserted to the greens

Gerry says:

10:55am | 10/05/11

Yes that is exactly what I was wondering. Oakeshott especially has continually attacked the Coalition on their stance on asylum seekers, but I bet he has nothing to say now it’s Gillard.

Mike says:

11:06am | 10/05/11

Until 800 is reached and then what? Do you call this a policy or what is it? How much will it cost to get breathing room for 2 months? It’s a bloody joke. And the 1 for 5 was demanded by Malaysia not Gillard. She wanted 1 for 2, but they said no. In her desperation she agreed to 5. Malaysia gave us that info not Gillard of course.

Bloggs says:

12:21pm | 10/05/11

It might be a clear message if it was a real policy.  But there’s only 800 in that boat. 

After the 800 are used up the boats will continue to come to Australia with teh people in them happy they weren’t part of that 800.

At the end of the day, nothing real has emerged yet again from the stupid ALP and their stupid leader.

mattb says:

05:36pm | 10/05/11

@mike and bloggs,

Put yourselves in the shoes of a potential afghan asylum seeker. He’s just heard the news from Australia that the next 800 asylum seekers that arrive in Australia by boat are to shipped back to Malaysia to join the end of the line there in potentially horrid conditions. He’s got his life savings in his hand, and he’s thinking of handing it over to a people smuggler. What questions are running through his mind at this point?.

Now i’m not going to pretend to know exactly his chain of thought, but if I were he, I’d be wondering whether-

I will be one of those 800?.

Can I trust this people smuggler’s assurances that I won’t be one of those 800?

How long will I end up in Malaysia if i am one of the unfortunate 800?

Are all these rumours of beatings and poor living conditions in Malaysian camps true?

When i get to Indonesia will there be a big scoreboard with 798 written on it and 2 people in the line in front of me?

Maybe i should wait till the 800 mark has been reached and everything goes back to the way it was?, but, will it go back to way it was?, and,
what if everyone else decides to wait like me and the 800 mark is never reached?

IMO, this is the reasoning behind the governments latest policy. Create a large enough amount of doubt in the mind of a potential asylum seeker and hope that its a great enough deterrent. Whether it works or not will remain to be seen and I thought I read somewhere the other day that boat numbers have started to decline in recent months anyway.

And, If you ask my personal opinion, this is just another face saving policy to pander to the rednecks and racists in this country over an insignificant issue that has starved other significantly more important issues of oxygen, we need to move on…

Watcher says:

11:29am | 10/05/11

I was shocked to see that some of these refugees are still living off us after 5 years!! Give me a bloody break and yet they are going to punish our unemployed and pensioners. That is just gob smacking. If they are not employed after 6 months..show them the bloody door. Why should we pay for these people to have a long holiday in Aus? From the minute they hit our shores, we pay.. we house and feed them and pay all medical and probably more, only to have them burn our buildings down. Its sheer lunacy and the Government is to blame. No wonder they are running here by boat load

fairsfair says:

11:42am | 10/05/11

It isn’t just new Australians who are on the Centrelink lifestyle. Take Housing Commission homes for example. My best friend just bought a house in between two of them. One neighbour has been living there since 1991 and still only pays $40 a week rent. They have a brand new car and don’t work (there is a 32” plasma on their back patio so they don’t need a new set top box). Their kids are grown and moved out. Why do they need a 4br house and why are we as the tax payers funding their lifestyle? Housing Commission is supposed to give you a leg up in your time of need - it was never supposed to be a permanent house for you and your family.

Welfare abuse is systemic in this country - if it wasn’t there or if it was more harshly regulated without this PC airy fairy lets think of their feelings caper, it would be good. Or, you should have to pay it back. You are unemployed for a year - well once you get a job you should have to pay back that $20k like I have to my HECS debt.  If you knew your entitlements were temporary you’d soon get out and find a job if you could. If you are legitimately needy, yep you get the housing commission house and all the help under the sun, just be prepared to pay it forward in any way you can.

I agree though, open the gates for those who are willing and while they are at it light a fire underneath the lecherous aussies who just happened to be born here.

Felipe says:

12:00pm | 10/05/11

Anna C,  Because Gillard and her government are now spending so much money in their failed illegal immigrants policy , Gillard is now advocating that people in their senior years should stop receiving benefits and get themselves back to work to prop up the tax income for Labor.  Isn’t this quite a senseless and demented government led by this PM who has no idea how to govern.  The Greens and Independents have no backbone as well they continue to support this government.

Anne_N says:

12:09pm | 10/05/11

@ fairstar

(just off topic)

We had a lovely friend many years ago, a war widow, who raised five kids single handed in Housing Commission home….they all grew up and got on well in life, she eventually passed away still having lived in the same little public house for over 40 years.

Her eldest son could not get it through his thick head that he couldn’t inherit the house…..it’s a mindset that needs to be looked at.

Anna C says:

01:37pm | 10/05/11

Fairsfair, I totally agree with you.  I want everyone who can work, to work and contribute to our society regardless of whether they are Aussie born or migrated here.  As a former Centrelink worker I can vouch that there are a heck of a lot of dead-beats living in this country.  My only question is that with so many of our own do we really need to import them? I only want refugees and skilled migrants who have a can-do attitude coming here, so that they can make the most of the great opportunities that this land affords them.

Anna C says:

01:37pm | 10/05/11

Fairsfair, I totally agree with you.  I want everyone who can work, to work and contribute to our society regardless of whether they are Aussie born or migrated here.  As a former Centrelink worker I can vouch that there are a heck of a lot of dead-beats living in this country.  My only question is that with so many of our own do we really need to import them? I only want refugees and skilled migrants who have a can-do attitude coming here, so that they can make the most of the great opportunities that this land affords them.

Marilyn Shepherd says:

03:40am | 11/05/11

Refugees in camps have no right to come here and if they did the queue is currently 840 years long.

And if the only safe haven is here then this is where they are allowed to come.

I do get tired of this ignorant babble when we have people come here from all corners of the earth and we don’t tell them to go somewhere else.

Luke4 says:

02:55pm | 10/05/11

Only 800 you fool. And then back in business, that’s if it even slows them down.

Kimberley says:

03:13pm | 10/05/11

But Julia isn’t going to tell them it’s only the first 800, that’s our little secret. lol

Bloggs says:

04:17pm | 10/05/11

Dear Marilyn,
You say “our own standards of humane mean indefinite prison without charge, brutal drunken guards, no right to work, appalling medical care, no legal rights beyond 3 hours of “free” advice and detention so remote and long they kill themselves”

Indefinite prison without charge – they came here illegally, tossing away the passports they used to get to Indonesia along the way.  Their motives are clearly not legal.
Brutal drunken guards – Really, Marilyn?  With all the rules upon Serco you accuse them of this? Please provide evidence of brutality and drunkenness to the Crown Prosecutor, they will be very interested.  None of us want this to occur. If you have no evidence please pull your head in on that one.
No right to work – they are in a detention camp.  Jobs are not available.  When these people are released they have a right to work and as already reported, continue to live of the public purse for 5 years or more in many cases – wasting your taxes (assuming you pay any) and mine.  This is not good enough.
Appalling medical care – Marilyn, come on now.  A friend of mine is a nurse who worked in some of these centres.  The medical care they receive is as good as any in this country. Methinks you guild the lily a bit on this one.
No legal rights?- so why is it that these guys who are waiting to leave when they are rejected can stay on for years in places like Villawood because of the lengthy appeals process.  Marilyn, their legal rights are better than yours and mine and keeps them here for years after they should be sent back.
Remote detention – fair enough too.  I don’t want undesirables in my back yard. But please feel free to offer your lounge room for them.

Clearly, Marilyn, your appeals on their behalf are mislead.  They bypass many legal places that are UN signatories to come here because here we give a lot of everything for nothing.  5 years without working, living on the public purse… indeed!  It is a complete disgrace.  I would impose a condition that they get English lessons and 6 months to find a job or back they go. If they want to contribute and be good citizens then maybe… but so many are poor citizens and just bleed on the system like dole bludgers.  No apologies… send them back.

MarK says:

05:08pm | 10/05/11

Go tell Julia Marilyn not us

Marilyn Shepherd says:

03:37am | 11/05/11

Bloggs so you live in some other place?  Drunk guards in prisons that we don’t need, beatings, tear gassing, shooting with rubber bullets is all documented.

As for tearing up their papers, which part of they don’t have papers to tear up don’t you get?

Refugees seeking asylum have to reach a signatory country before they can apply for protection and in our region that means they can apply at Cambodia and Japan only and us.

Now it’s very tricky to get to Japan and there are still many Cambodians seeking protection in other countries.

Last year we accepted applications from

Is there anyway we need to continue the inane drivel about “regional processing centres” when we have applications from
Ho Chi Min city - 18
Seoul - 12
Rangoon - 14
Bangkok - 1757
Hanoi - 6
Hong Kong - 5
Auckland - 4
KL - 1059
Guanghzou - 4
Suva - 53
Jakarta - 426
Shanghai - 3
Dili -2
Singapore - 2
Beijing - 174
Manila 1
Port Moresby - 1
Which means 3541 are already “processed in our region”, all of them paid some bribes or transport by sea or air or foot to get to those embassies yet we want to shove away 800 who come here by themselves.
In fact all of those who apply from overseas have to get to some other country to apply for asylum.
So why would we want to push people all the way to Malaysia to be tortured and why would we waste hundreds of millions shoving just a few thousand people in the region into another country who already has massive refugee problem and is dirt poor.

Now Tory, there is simply no legal right to stop anyone getting on a boat.  Its free will and free choice

Smuggling under interational law is forced movement across borders for gain.

Which is what Gillard would have us to, but refugees are not coming here because the ferrymen force them to.

Steve says:

07:26pm | 10/05/11

There goes the neighbourhood

stephen says:

07:43pm | 10/05/11

I’d like to say ‘The goes the bikini’, but she’s probably got another one on underneath.

Yuri says:

05:06pm | 10/05/11

Maybe you took Persephone with you as well, I haven’t seen her posting for a couple of days. Although there were another couple of terrible Labor policies announced so that could be the reason.

iansand says:

05:31pm | 10/05/11

Wrong article.  Nothing to see here.  Move along please.

MarK says:

06:18pm | 10/05/11

”  iansand says:

  05:31pm | 10/05/11

  Wrong article.  Nothing to see here.  Move along please.”

You could just copy paste this as a footnote to all your posts. Wouls save some time.

 

 

HAHAHAHAHAHA ucwatididthar

stephen says:

07:57pm | 10/05/11

What drives this country is our perception that the Economy drives everything else, which is why more Aussies have shares in public companies, per-ca pita, than other countries, and why we are not members, instead, of political parties.
Besides, Linsday Tanner is a bit above the average, but he may only see himself amongst the pack - hence his alarming statements blaming a supposed mediocre media for something that is really a Pollies fault.

Marilyn Shepherd says:

03:08am | 12/05/11

There are no people smugglers, it is not smuggling to seek asylum.

for it to be smuggling it would need force on the part of the ferryman, it would need to be hidden and not out in the open, the 2 or 3 poor Indonesian crew who bring people the last bit don’t know the law, hell you twits don’t know our law.

Our law is “everyone has the right to seek asylum”.

We simply are not allowed to traffic people out of this country and not let them ask for help and then dump them in a country we know they cannot ask for help.

Would we turn away sick people at a hospital and send them to somewhere they couldn’t get a doctor just because they didn’t have an appointment card?