I’m guessing that former prime minister Malcolm Fraser and Western Australian woman Jo Ruprecht wouldn’t agree on much when it comes to federal politics.

They've got chairs and everything at the Leonora detention centre. Picture: Mary Mills

At the launch of Refugee Week in Sydney yesterday, Mr Fraser joined forces with the vocal minority once more, calling for greater compassion towards asylum seekers, and attacking both sides of politics for their race “to see who can be the toughest” in their pre-election rhetoric.

Unfortunately for Mr Fraser and the good folk at the Refugee Council of Australia, it seems the public view is very much running one way when it comes to the asylum seeker debate.

Were it left to a good many of us to decide, we’d rather task the Royal Australian Navy to turn the boats around, rather than simply watch them as they drift onwards in large numbers towards our prosperous shores.

It was this kind of public sentiment, read hostility, which greeted a group of 86 asylum seekers who arrived on the other side of the country in WA earlier this month on a chartered jet from a bursting Christmas Island.

In all, 21 family groups of Afghan, Iranian and Sri Lankan heritage, many women and children, were among the group offered homes in a former mining camp comprising demountable accommodation and the most basic of comforts at Leonora, population 1500, located 800km north east of Perth.

A Seven News television reporter covering the arrival in Leonora, pointed the camera towards Ms Ruprecht, who was coincidentally at the airport seeing off friends, and asked her what the locals thought of refugees in her town, Ms Ruprecht gave voice to what it seems many in Australian think.

She told viewers she was opposed to allowing asylum seekers to stay in the town, and she criticised the extent of Federal Government assistance to the group, given that many Australians were forced to go without.

Stories of the mining camp being stocked with essential supplies such as fresh meat and vegetables for the new arrivals, as well as luxury items such as cigarettes, had apparently touched a nerve among the isolated population.

Ms Ruprecht’s polarising comments would have passed without incident were it not for the St John Ambulance shirt she happened to be wearing, albeit in an off-duty capacity.

Somewhere else in WA that evening, some other St John volunteers had also been watching and they must have been channelling Malcolm Fraser, for they were quick to report their colleague to head office in Perth.

It is at this stage of the story where distinguishing fact from fiction becomes a bit bit harder.

According to Ms Ruprecht, a veteran of 13 years with St John, she was called into the office in Leonora after the television report by visiting regional manager, Alan Churchill, to be counselled for allowing herself to be interviewed while wearing her St John ambulance uniform.

Management felt that her comments towards refugees could be construed by some as as ambulance service policy, not a good look for an organisation whose international motto is “For the Services of Mankind”.

Ms Ruprecht is not someone used to being interviewed by television reporters every day, and she conceded to management she had made a horrible mistake.

She agreed that she had unwittingly compromised the service, and apologised for her mistake in wearing their shirt in front of media.

She thought the apology ought to have been the end of the issue, but well into the meeting, she began to feel that Mr Churchill had arrived in the town with only one mission in mind, to remove her from the service.

Faced with the prospect of being stood down, she offered a written resignation on the spot, and walked out - taking two other volunteers, or half of the town’s available volunteers with her.

“I don’t think I should have been treated that way after 13 years,” Ms Ruprecht later told reporters.

Talkback radio across WA was abuzz with the story, with callers rushing to Ms Ruprecht’s defence, and criticising St John management for their apparent heavy-handedness.

It wasn’t until the issue had generated a head of steam in the media last week that Mr Churchill was offered up to tell his side of the story, and when he did, it cast the issue in a very different light.

Mr Churchill claimed that Ms Ruprecht had been counselled over the uniform issue, but it was a completely different matter as to why the volunteer’s service record was hanging the balance.

At the end of the disciplinary meeting, Mr Churchill said he had, in light of Ms Ruprecht’s obvious hostility towards the town’s asylum seekers, asked her whether she would be prepared to to attend to an emergency at the refugee centre in Leonora.

Mr Churchill says Ms Ruprecht replied that “she probably would not”.

Their volunteer had placed the service in an untenable position, he argued, and she could not be permitted back in the service.

“As an ambulance service we can’t pick and choose who we go to,” he said.

The fair-minded among us would have to agree: surely ambulance officers have a duty of care to everyone, not those they pick and choose.

The uncomfortable stalemate has resulted in a regrettable and extremely unfortunate position for the people of Leonora.

St John Ambulance has lost the services of three dedicated volunteers, one of whom has provided 13 years of invaluable service.

You can’t develop these sorts of skills in a country town overnight, nor can you import the commitment and enthusiasm of salt-of-the-earth types who give their time readily to such an important community service.

With the benefit of hindsight, and following a lengthy discussion with St John about their responsibility to all patients, Ms Ruprecht now concedes she would not hesitate in responding to a call-out to the refugee centre were she permitted back into the organisation.

If only St John would now take her back.

Ms Ruprecht and St John management have both lost some skin over the issue, and a week on and it seems hopes for mediation or some form of resolution are fading.

This is a terrible pity.  When it comes to refugee policy, it seems there is no turning back for anyone.

68 comments

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    • Eric says:

      06:11am | 22/06/10

      These unwanted settlers seem to cause division wherever they go. Best to send them back.

    • Sally says:

      07:30am | 22/06/10

      Eric,
      You seem to cause division whenever you post.  Can we send you “back” as well….say to the Stoneage where your views on women may be appreciated?  Just a suggestion, of course.

    • Dan says:

      07:56am | 22/06/10

      Maybe Eric could be sent to the Vatican. There aren’t many women there and there aren’t any Muslims there either.

    • AdamC says:

      09:33am | 22/06/10

      I’m closer to Eric on this issue than to say, Malcolm Fraser. I think a large majority of Australians are, actually.

    • Brian says:

      06:34am | 22/06/10

      Enough already, people in Australia have no problem with refugees, its the boat people that they don’t want.

      I use to be a volunteer fire fighter, and like all volunteers, didn’t mind putting myself at risk to help others. St John volunteers are no different in that way.

      To lose three volunteers like they have is not a good thing. And as for Mr Fraser, angain, enough already, he’s a has-been. if he was again running for the PM’s position based purely on “greater compassion towards (illegal) asylum seekers, ” he’d lose.

      We have refugees here and to the best of my knownledge, no one here has a problem with them. I’ve always treated people as I find them as I think most Aussie’s do too. let them come here by all means, but do it the legal way, the same way I had to do myself (coming from NZ) even coming from NZ, I still have to go through the right channels. Maybe Ms Ruprecht should not have had the uniform on, but when she said sorry, that should have been the end of it. I’m sure it’s St John’s loss

    • Dan says:

      08:13am | 22/06/10

      Brian, when will you and others understand that these people are NOT illegals?! There is nothing illegal about seeking asylum. Object if you want, but at least get your facts straight!

    • notsurprised says:

      08:49am | 22/06/10

      Dan, when people who are seeking asylum in another sovereign nation pass through several of these countries and could willingly declare refugee status in any of them but choose not to do so, they become economic opportunists. Therefore the debate is actually about whether some of these people can be classified as refugees. If they choose to come and live here, no problem, just do it the correct way like everybody else.

    • TheRealDave says:

      09:52am | 22/06/10

      Dan when are peeople like you going to acknowledge that these people are not ‘Asylum Seekers’ but ‘Country Shoppers’ who go from one safe country to another until they find one that they like better. They pay for this ‘privelidge’ Dan. They could, and should be , seeking “asylum’ in the closest avalible country…not passing through 5 or 6 countries to lob up on a nearby reef.

      Like many other Australians I have zero problems with migrants and taking in genuine refugees. None at all. The more the merrier I say. As long as they do it the proper way like the other tens of thousands that do it every year.

    • Hel says:

      01:15pm | 22/06/10

      notsurprised and TheRealDave, the countries they pass through are not signatories to the 1951 UN Convention relating to the Status of Refugees. As such they have no international obligation to take them in for assessment/asylum.
      A Sri Lankan seeking asylum might pass in any direction through India (not a signatory), Maldives (not a signatory), Thailand (not a signatory), Cambodia (a signatory), Vietnam (not a signatory), Laos (not a signatory), Pakistan (not a signatory), Indonesia (not a signatory) or Australia (a signatory).
      So unless you want Cambodia to take on a whole bunch of refugees when they are already struggling with their own issues, Australia is the only country with an International obligation.
      By signing the convention we have “accepted responsibility in providing protection for persons obliged to flee their country because of persecution” (UNHCR.org)

    • Simonious says:

      07:29pm | 22/06/10

      Yes Hel you are right By signing the convention we have “accepted responsibility in providing protection for persons obliged to flee their country because of persecution” (UNHCR.org)
      But we also have a right to detain these people to determine whether their persecution is genuine or not. I for one am suspcious of any Sri Lankans claiming persecution and I want my government to check that they are not Tamils whom may bring their violent domestic dispute to our shores.

    • Dan says:

      09:20am | 23/06/10

      notsurprised, they can not ‘willingly declare refugee status in any of them’ because most of the countries they pass through are not legally oblogated to accept refugees. We are.

      TheRealDave, they are not country shopping. Not when nations like Indonesia are not legally obligated to take them. You do realise as well that most of the refugees who arrive through ‘improper means’ arrive by plane?

    • Jes says:

      08:29am | 22/06/10

      Well if the government cannot afford to pay volunteers the cigarettes should not be provided to new arrivals. Smoking should not even be allowed at a government wrokplace.

      However we will have to get used to fewer volunteers as my husband is one and we live in mixed race area but 100% volunteers are white. My mother works with elderley and same again, all white volunteers.Perhaps working for the community is not part of other peoples cultures. So will gradually become a thing of the past. We are certainly wealthy enough as a nation to pay these volunetetrs anyways. To ask people to work for free is a bit rude when we have this money being blown on smoking.

    • Sally says:

      10:21am | 22/06/10

      Jes,
      If the government (or anyone else for that matter) paid volunteers, they would cease to be volunteers and become employees.  Volunteering is a choice; it is impossible to be an involuntary volunteer.  People volunteer for individual reasons and it is wonderful they do.

      I also volunteer.  I have never encountered this 100% white volunteer army you speak of.  I suppose it depends where and at what you volunteer.  I have the desire and ability to give a portion of my time to “giving back”.  It is not for me to judge others on their choices/circumstances, however.

      If I was transported to a foreign country, had limited language skills, limited employment options, limited family/community support and had to learn a new way of life, I don’t necessarily think volunteering would be first on my to do list.

      It’s not necessarily a cultural issue, more one of human beings prioritising.  It is a blessing to be in a position where you can “give back”.  Sometimes, however, it takes a back-burner to surviving.  Why expect “new arrivals” to instantly contribute when so many with the advantages that come with being born and bred in this great country can’t/won’t volunteer already?

    • Peasant #3167 says:

      04:07pm | 22/06/10

      Sally, for a new immigrant unemployed, with limited language skills, limited community support and wanting to learn a new way of life in Australia, then I can think of no better way then to work as a volunteer in some community aspect. Sitting around on welfare ain’t going to fix those problems.

    • Bitten says:

      08:35am | 22/06/10

      Well that’s the annoying thing about democracy - the will of the majority prevails. Irritating, I know. Much more fun if you could just impose your will on the Australian public, because well, you know so much better than those of us in the unwashed herd. You’re so much more intelligent and, well, you’re just better than us. More lattes for you, why not. But, meh, that’s the system for you and that’s what a lot (a whole lot) of Australian citizens think: who the hell are those people and why is the Government handing out money to pay for their food and water when locals struggle to survive?

    • Sally says:

      09:17am | 22/06/10

      We should tackle the big issues immediately.  Forget humanity/compassion/empathy/understanding/tolerance/sharing and the rest of the overrated, PC, liberal, bleeding heart waffle.  Questions MUST be answered.
      Are these “illegals” being given 3 ply toilet paper whilst good, decent, hardworking, Australian-born people struggle on with 1 ply rolls?  It is not petty, inane nonsense, rather a VITAL point of debate which will affect this nation for generations to come.  Australia demands answers.

    • James1 says:

      10:18am | 22/06/10

      Indeed Sally.  Why should we hand out 3-ply to asylum seekers when hard working Australian dole bludgers are doing it tough because they spend all their money on drugs and alcohol.  Its a disgrace.

    • Adam Diver says:

      12:23pm | 22/06/10

      There has been a new prison built close to where I live. It has first class medical facilities, living facilities, cost several million dollars and has a large and expensive workforce to maintain this prison.

      If anyone can answer why someone who has committed a crime (this is maximum security so we are talking rape, murder etc) should have better access to health care than a law abiding tax paying citizen please list it here because I want to know.

      Then answer why we are so happy to ignore the most needy refugees stuck in camps overseas, whilst we rescue, house, provide health care etc for ones who are not doing it so tough. I am all for humanity/compassion/empathy/understanding/tolerance/sharing but the hypocrisy is unbelievable.

    • Bitten says:

      12:27pm | 22/06/10

      No squabbling little ones. You may disagree with the opinions of the majority (one of the great things about a free democracy) but they are as entitled to their opinion as you are to yours. And as the majority in a democracy, their opinion will carry more weight. Don’t whine about it and definitely do not suggest that they are not entitled to have their opinion or that their opinions are worth less than yours. That is not the case. In fact, that is hypocrisy at its most offensive.

    • Rocket Surgeon says:

      05:12pm | 22/06/10

      Bitten, yes they are entitled to their opinion but if it is based on incorrect information or rumour and innuendo it is worth less than one based on fact and research.

    • Bitten says:

      09:23am | 24/06/10

      Rocket Surgeon, a condescending concession from the ‘lofty lefty’ is easily seen through. “Brrr, well, er, yes, they are entitled to their opinion, brrr, but, mmm, mine is still better, they’re still stoopid and ignorant and, well, errr, I’m just better than them.” The opinion of the majority prevails because IT IS THE OPINION OF THE MAJORITY, the exact content of the opinion itself does not add the weight given to it. We are in a democracy, and I get it, it is incredibly annoying that ignorant bush-dwellers who didn’t get an arts/law degree or don’t order lattes in the eastern suburbs are entitled to vote and have an opinion and to object to things that you think are great. I get it, it’s annoying, because, well, people like you are just better than the rest of us. But that’s the way the wafer crumbles my love: democracy = majority wins. And the majority is not happy.

    • marley says:

      08:45am | 22/06/10

      A bit of common sense and compassion on all sides would go a long way.  Asylum seekers have a right to have their claims assessed, and, if found to be genuine, a right to protection.  I don’t see that they have a right to free cigarettes.

    • James1 says:

      01:19pm | 22/06/10

      Neither do Australians on welfare.

    • Peasant #3167 says:

      03:03pm | 22/06/10

      James1, Australians on welfare are given a livable income to spend on what they deem as needed. Asylum seekers seek asylum. Asylum does not include cigarettes, mobile phones or internet access. If they are in fear of their life, then any shelter from that fear would suffice.  Our priority should be to Australian residents first and foremost. Thousands of Australian children live in poverty worse then those who have paid thousands of dollars to get here by boat. It’s a disgrace my tax dollars go to fund cigarettes and mobile phones for rich queue jumpers.

    • James1 says:

      03:22pm | 22/06/10

      You contradict yourself Peasant.  You opening gambit maintains that all Australians have at least enough to live off, yet go on to say that Australian children live in worse poverty than some asylum seekers.  If they have enough to live off, why should I care to give them more?  Wouldn’t their parents just waste it?

      Besides which, people are people to me, regardless of where they come from.  An Australian dole bludger is no more or less deserving than an Afghan asylum seeker.

    • Peasant #3167 says:

      03:30pm | 22/06/10

      James1, what do you say to these “dole bludgers”?
      “According to Department of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs figures, in April the unemployment rate of migrants who arrived between January 1996 and March this year was 17.9%. Among non-white migrants, those from the Middle East and North Africa averaged 35.5% unemployment, and those from south-east Asia 30.9%.”

    • Davida says:

      03:53pm | 22/06/10

      @Peasant #3167,

      It’s also a disgrace that your tax dollars go to fund cigarettes and mobile phones for dole bludgers, teen mothers and drug addicts.  In a lot of ways it’s worse.

      In this country EVERYONE can access education, housing assistance, rent assistance, subsidised health care, birth control, libraries, unemployment benefits, sickness benefits, single mother’s benefits, child-care rebates, dental hospitals etc etc if the need is assessed as genuine.  No civil wars, no real epidemics, clean drinking water, no genocide, no political prisoners…....and the list goes on.

      All of this and some people still choose selfish, wasteful, ignorant choices.  All of this and some people choose to do nothing to improve their lot.  All of this and it entitles them to whinge about their rights and entitlements and how they are somehow missing out.  All of this and they want to deny others what they deem their entitlement.

      Why?  Because they were LUCKY enough to have been born here, that is all.  That, at least for me, is the real disgrace.

    • James1 says:

      04:02pm | 22/06/10

      Peasant, you respond to my asserting that race and origin make no difference to me with a post discussing race and origin.  How pointless.  A dole bludger is a dole bludger Peasant.  It matters not to me if they are migrants, black, white, or whatever.  The fact that they are migrants makes them no less, and no more, deserving than Australians who are the children of migrants, or the grandchildren of migrants, or Aborigines.  I see no need to look after non-migrants over migrants, or white migrants over non-white migrants.  What relevance does their national origin have, exactly?

    • AdamC says:

      09:42am | 22/06/10

      The reality is that Australians by-and-large (and I include myself here) have an expectation that the government will implement policies to reduce the number of people who use the services of people smugglers to convey themselves to Australia by boat. That does not mean that we are not compassionate (we are) but that we disapprove of people, whether refugees or not, subverting established, orderly immigration processes.

      There are millions of refugees around the world, only very few of whom pay criminal gangs to sail them to Australia via a host of other countries. Malcolm Fraser would have these boat arrivals benefit from their conduct by getting speedier outcomes and permanent resettlement - that is ridiculous. Australia should not reward people for criminal behaviour.

    • rod sexton says:

      09:47am | 22/06/10

      Say no to refugees.

    • WayneT says:

      10:18am | 22/06/10

      They are que jumpers pure and simple.  They are people of means who have screwed over their own more deserving countrymen by buying their way around the current UN recognised refugee processing system.  And on their way here they have bypassed far more culturally compatible countries to come here.  And when they do get here they know exactly what to ask for and what their entitlements are.  They gain tax payer funded legal representation by ambulance chasing lawyers so that they can prolong their applications longer than necessary, at the same time garnering the sympathy of the so called do-gooder’s in our society.  We have Australians who don’t have a roof over their heads and these persons have cooks, cleaners and modern conveniences at their disposal.  Where are the do-gooder’s cries of indignation for their own countrymen?  How is it the Government can find the money for these illegal entrants but nothing for our own families in need.  Doesn’t it just stink a little?  When these people get here, assign them a number in line behind those already waiting through proper channels overseas.  Send a message that coming by boat won’t get you in any earlier than their countrymen.  Watch how quickly boat arrivals drop off when that strategy no longer gains them early consideration.  In the short term we will just have to bare the cost of those already here, but at least there will be some light at the end of the tunnel.

    • James1 says:

      10:27am | 22/06/10

      Those Australians without a roof over their head could always get a job.  Why are you so sympathetic with dole bludgers?  They also deserve no sympathy.

    • Muttley says:

      11:42am | 22/06/10

      James, Wayne doesnt mention dole bludgers, merely families in need. So why are you so vitriolic that you can make the leap from families in need to dole bludgers? I think it says more about you than anything else. There is a middle ground you know without having to go to the extreme.

    • James1 says:

      12:11pm | 22/06/10

      Muttley, I am a student at the moment, and I manage to support a family on a student income.  Anyone who is “needy” must be without work, because I manage quite well supporting my family on the lowest level of income.  Thus, being from the poorest of the working poor, I assumed that when Wayne talks of families doing it tough, he must be talking about the roughly two percent of Australian families in which no one has a job, or any intention of getting a job.  Hence my vitriol over dole bludgers.  Any family with work who still considers themselves needy are not genuinely needy - they just can not manage money, or waste it on alcohol, cigarettes and drugs.  None deserve sympathy as far as I am concerned, and none hold relevance to the debate over asylum seekers.

    • Davida says:

      01:15pm | 22/06/10

      @Muttley,
      You are correct.  Wayne doesn’t mention dole bludgers.  There is, however, a certain validity to their relevence in this debate.

      You either acknowledge and uphold human rights or you don’t.  That is ALL rights for ALL humans or you don’t.  You can’t use nationality as a defence.

      I resent the pseudo arguments always put forward.  You know the type, “I’m all for immigration as long as it’s done the legal way” or “It’s not like we’d receive the same concessions if we went to their country” or “How about we help Australians first”.  These arguments are brilliant as they only require action based conditionally on other improbabilities.

      I know of people having arrived here with no possessions, no family, no English and no hope.  Many are terrified and traumatised by unspeakable horrors, the likes of which most Australians could never begin to understand.  Just human beings, who unlike us, had the misfortune to be ejected from wombs of women, who unlike our mothers, weren’t in Australian hospital wards.  These people choose to come, they want to come.

      Where you are born is luck, not something we as Australians had the foresight or brilliance to plan.  So here’s the rub…...some of us see no issue with getting tough on “them”.  Cool bananas, but isn’t it hypocritical not to get tough on us at the same time?  I get “they” are not our problem.  But then again, why are “we” our problem either?

      If you were born in Australia you have had no civil war in your lifetime, little corruption, violence or oppression.  At very least, you’ve been afforded a state school education, subsidised healthcare, unemployment benefits and money to raise your children.  No matter how bad it seems, you have a lot.  You have choice.  Isn’t it rich to go with all of this at your disposal, if you chose badly as an Australian you should be given multiple safety nets (and the right to whinge)?  You can be born here and still contribute very little indeed.

      Should you be rewarded merely for your “luck” of the birth lottery?  Why is that?  I don’t see how here longer, given more necessarily equates with more deserving.  So the question remains are we human first or Australian first?

    • Hel says:

      02:38pm | 22/06/10

      “These arguments are brilliant as they only require action based conditionally on other improbabilities.”

      Davida, I like everything else you said too, but this is surely the best description of the anti-asylum seeker argument I’ve ever heard.

    • Muttley says:

      03:33pm | 22/06/10

      Davida,
        You take a long path for a short trip. First of all we have multiple obligations. We SHOULD help the less fortunate REGARDLESS of where they come from. But to take that a step further,we should start our aid measures within our own borders. Make sure that none are left behind. We are citizens of the world, but we are citizens of Australia first and foremost.
        And James, if you are supporting a family exclusively on a student income, then sincere kudos to you my friend. But from a general point of view, that would put you in the approximate bracket that i was mentioning. We have a massive disparity in economic circumstances in this country and efforts to arrest that are unpopular amongst the Howardites (or should i say Abbotites now) but it is a position we should strive for. Communist thinking i know, but that would be my union past influencing my opinion. There is a saying, “if you are not a communist when you are twenty then you have a hard heart, if you are still one when you are forty then you have a hard head”

    • Greg says:

      04:49pm | 22/06/10

      Davida, it is very true that there will be refugees who have experienced one way or another horrendous attrocities and we are so so lucky to be born where we have been and most people with a heart and sound mind do feel greatly for all people having a harsher existence.

      In acknowledging full rights for all people, that is fine and you can criticise the ” It should be done the right way thoughts ” but what of the rights of the people who have suffered greatly and bide their time with patience solely because they did not have money [ not to mention where the money may have come from for smugglers ].

      And then what of the people who have drowned en route at the hands of people smugglers.

      Australia cannot take all the refugees and so that is why there are UN organisations and selection processes that attempt to rate the most needy and create some form of priority system.
      There is a lot of background work that goes on in preparation for people to be settled and assimilated into Australia and that will be far more difficult when unknowns are arriving.
      That’s just a fact of life and what has to happen.

      And then what of the rights of people in Australia having to help and deal with the situations that develop and they will by having numbers together in relatively isolated locations.
      I suppose you would rather just have them dropped off at capital city airports and given a motel room for a few months [ is happening ] and some cash and say welcome to Australia!
      How long before that’ll create problems?

      And we know of the violence that can erupt at welcome or detainee centres and so you have a St Johns Ambulance volunteer being asked if she would respond to a call at such a centre.
      I would only expect someone to have to that if their welfare could be fully guaranteed.

      So there are a lot of issues to be addressed in how a system should be managed and how it should not be allowed to be rorted and that’s aside from what the cost may be to Australia.

    • stephen says:

      11:28am | 22/06/10

      ‘Ruprecht’ ?
      I keep thinking of a Steve Martin film.

    • Peasant #3167 says:

      11:59am | 22/06/10

      The message here, don’t speak the truth about what you believe in. You will be persecuted by the minority groups and the media. It’s getting like pre war Germany.

    • James1 says:

      01:10pm | 22/06/10

      Except for the elections we regularly hold, and the fact that refugees are coming rather than fleeing, and there are no prison camps, or authoritarian government, or communists being killed, or regular pogroms against ethnic minorities, or massive military build up.  Apart from all that though, exactly like pre-war Germany. 

      Also, I do not think that lady is being persecuted.  Personally, I would not want people working in the ambulance service who refuse to assist people on the basis of their residency status.  That is the persecution here.

    • Anne says:

      12:08pm | 22/06/10

      Let’s shift the focus to people who are getting into the country through other means like fake marriages? Women in their 40s/50s marrying men at least 30 years their senior in a platonic relationship to be the carer to the senior citizen husbands?? They get Centrelink payments as soon as they arrive, and if they are willing to “care” for their husband for around 2 years, citizenship is pretty much a guaranteed reality. These are they people who are bleeding our social security and abusing the system. There should be more checks and balances to ensure these people do not enter our country as they certainly are not the least persecuted from their countries of origin.

      Which do you prefer as your neighbour? I would like to think that we would all be willing to extend a helping hand if needed to people who are genuinely in strife, and refugees who are fleeing war savaged, politically unstable countries DO deserve our help. They do know choose to be born, where they are, and need to be given a fair go. Just as the convicts did over 200 years ago when they were sent to this far away land called Australia and started their new life here.

      There is a different between people marrying for visas and the associated benefits, and those who have no choice but to leave their families/countries and leave. These people deserve sympathy.

      Anyways, everyone in Australia (apart from the Indigenous people) came from somewhere else originally, so we should not encourage this feeling of entitlement and sense of superiority over the newly arrive migrants. This is the wrong attitude to take.

    • DD Ball says:

      02:25pm | 22/06/10

      I am not alone with my viewpoint, but it is rarely given a run when people canvass ‘all the opinions.’ I like migrants and am happy for them to come to Australia. However, I like them, and do not wish them to die en route. I don’t wish them to be exploited by pirates and people smugglers. I think in ending the pacific solution, Rudd committed a monstrous wrong. People who may have come to Australia have missed out because people smugglers gazumped them from their refugee camps. It is known over a hundred have died, but possibly that is many thousands have died so that Rudd can get a headline as compassionate when he isn’t. I think Mr Abbott has the right policy and want him to be in government soon, even if Fraser doesn’t agree with me.

    • James1 says:

      02:40pm | 22/06/10

      The people smuggler issue is one for law enforcement, not refugee policy.  The money that is put into punishing boat people would be far better spent on the Australian Federal Police and their activities relating to the investigation of people smuggling in places like Indonesia.  The Pacific solution was a needless and expensive political stunt.  No political party is serious about people smuggling - if they were they would be putting the money, people, and resources where it would do the most good - into law enforcement and intelligence activities.  Punishing those who attempt to use the services of people smugglers will not prevent it from happening, it only punishes the desperate.

      I agree with your sentiment, DD, but I disagree with your solution to the real problems you have identified.

    • Sally says:

      03:20pm | 22/06/10

      @DD Ball,
      I’m trying to understand.  You “like” migrants and want them to come but not die en route.  Therefore, if they survive the trip (unseaworthy vessels, pirates, people smugglers) we turn them back for a return journey?
      You then champion the Pacific solution which involves taking the migrants you “like”, holding them in Nauru or Papua New Guinea (poor nations, complicit because they rely on our government for financial aid) and awaiting their processing out of sight, mind and largely our control?
      For this Abbott gets your vote?  For this we get to applaude your fair-minded humanity?
      Lucky you “like” them I guess.  Imagine if you didn’t…......

    • Greg says:

      04:26pm | 22/06/10

      No Sally, you need to read DD again for it is
      ” I like migrants and am happy for them to come to Australia. However, I like them, and do not wish them to die en route. I don’t wish them to be exploited by pirates and people smugglers.”
      What is said and I agree whole heartedly is that the tough love Pacific solution [ for until Xmas Island was built ] with all its problems sent the message that paying a people smuggler was not going to have a red carpet rolled out for you and so the people smuggling dropped off.
      Mr Krudd and Kronies dropped the Temporary Protection Visa and so the rules changed to get to Ashmore Reef and Australia has to take us.
      Meanwhile there are millions without the finance waiting patiently to be processed when their turn comes.
      Where did the smuggler payers get their money from might well be asked.
      And James, whilst the smuggling may be a law and order issue at the coalface, the coal face is to some extent Indonesia and with a population there of about 200M, just how effective do you think a few AFP guys will be?
      The pacific solution may have been expensive and the reason why Xmas Island was built and with very few detainees there up until Krudd and Kronies got in charge.
      It was however not needless and no stunt and if the policy of TPVs had been maintained, there would be far less people risking their lives at sea, overflowing to the mainland now with minimal control and in general creating difficulties in how large masses of people will be managed as against if it was done in accordance with the normal refugee program.

    • Sally says:

      06:03pm | 22/06/10

      @Greg,
      Thanks, I was looking for clarification.  You said the Pacific solution “may have been expensive”.  Maybe we should divert this money into more staff and resources, thus speeding up the slow processing?  In limiting the time these legitimate refugees languish in these camps, the less incentive there would be to pay smugglers.  We can also accept more people, faster.

    • Aussie mum says:

      02:26pm | 22/06/10

      Mr churcell hasn’t been completely honest here,after seeing Ms Ruprecht on the news wearing a tee shirt with a St Johns logo on it he and a counselor were on a charted jet the next morning to Leonora it had nothing to do with what she had said, he said her wearing the logo looked bad for St Johns image as a compassionate origination[only if you can afford a ambulance in time of need],and will now have paid staff in Leonora,Ms Ruprecht pulled the plug herself after 12 yrs as a volunteer,some of the other volunteers were so disgusted with the way she was treated by St Johns they to pulled the plug as well, they have every right to speak their mind at present. we are still a free country for how long will remain to be seen.she was upset the government spent multi millions of tax payers dollars to upgrade the mining camp quarters that were good enough for mine worker to live in but not good enough for the illegal boat people to be live in those same conditions,as well as giving them luxury items, a gym,swimming pool .Internet,free mobile phones,cooks .cleaners .legal aid. dental , medical and taught English not that many need it all, courtesy of the tax payer, the private jets charted to take them to Leonora should have taken them back to where they paid thousand of dollars to charter the boat from and dumped them there,a few one way flights and the rest would get the message ,then we can take real refugees into Australia,people waiting for years in line who don’t have the money to buy their way into our country,our navy is a tug service for the government,if these boat were turned around the navy will still have to pick the illegals up they have it all planed out before the set sail ,they would set the boats on fire[as happened endangering our sailors] or made to slowly sink,the illegals know before they leave their own country and travel in style from country to country with cash, passport and papers and end up here without any identification what’s on offer in Australia compared to other countries,a free ride as a professional dole bludger awaits them for the rest of their lives,they can take extended holidays back to the home country and never having to lift a finger to get it,any bleeding heart who wants these people here foster them into your own home and take the burden off hard working Australian tax payers,can hear you now “we would but just don’t have the room .‘the old saying put up or shut up.we are a multicultural country,we have people from far and wide they live next door or the next street we shop in their shops, work along side them,they educate their kids at the same schools as we do, they are hard working and proud Aussie’s,these illegals aren’t going to integrate with us by their own choosing,they are and will suck this counrty dry ,it needs to be stopped now,no visa’s. no hand outs ,get lost,go back to where you came from,

    • Greg says:

      04:33pm | 22/06/10

      Well said mum, even if there’ll be many that’ll say you are oh so too far tough, but all so true.
      What the hell Krudd and Evans are thinking they will do next with all these taxpayer funded encampments all over the countryside beats me for they are picking relatively isolated locations far from regular transport or opportunities for employment or assimilation as would be more the situation with the normally processed refugees.
      They are in effect just creating another mess for the next government to fix up.

    • Another Aussie mum says:

      09:16am | 23/06/10

      “tough”? I think the word you are looking for is “bigoted”.
      Aussie Mum doesn’t speak for me.

    • Greg says:

      09:40am | 23/06/10

      Other Aussie Mum.
      ” then we can take real refugees into Australia,people waiting for years in line who don’t have the money to buy their way into our country ” and other references is not so bigoted but just saying lets see the accepted refugee approach apply to all and lets not have our sailors put at unnecessary risk.
      Perhaps you ought to think of the broader picture a little more.
      If it helps, for starters, picture millions of refugees about the planet living with next to nothing to support themselves.
      And then you have some who have got together considerable sums of money to pay smugglers.
      Who are the ones in real need of help?

    • Bilbo says:

      04:32pm | 22/06/10

      The ambulance volunteer expressed a popular sentiment that few are willing to make public due to the sort of politically correct rage that is directed at those silly enough to be honest.
      The UN refugee convention did not anticipate the circumstances under which these lawyer coached self selecting manipulators operate. If all boat arrivals were swiftly deported the flood would soon stop.

    • SteveO says:

      09:23pm | 22/06/10

      You guys are bogans.  It can’t be that much fun running from country to country.  Why would you do it, unless your home country was so shithouse you had to escape?  Economic opportunists?  Give me a break.
      Anyway, I’ll make you a deal.  Let one refugee into Australia for me, I’m leaving this redneck country in three weeks.  Later losers, enjoy the permanent drought and oil shortages in the suburbs. Have fun waving your flag round on Australia Day, in your Aussie boardshorts.

    • Helen says:

      09:11am | 23/06/10

      As Australian of the Year Patrick McGorry said at the Welcome Refugees march last Sunday, just because “a majority” of the population may favour something it doesn’t make it right. We’d have capital punishment in Australia if that were the case. Ms Ruprecht was clearly at fault. For an ambulance officer to pick and choose what patients to attend on the basis of race is clearly unconscionable. It’s a shame if St Johns has an inadequate pool of people of good character to get volunteers from; if they checked they might find a doctor or paramedic or two among the asylum seekers!

    • Phil Osopher says:

      09:23am | 23/06/10

      Agree with Bilbo.  The UNHCR rtreaty must be revoked, as it can, as 1951 was a long time ago and the 1967 Protocol made it even harder for signatoriy countries to say no to many asylum seekers whose archaic belief systems and cultural beliefs do not make for acceptable people to be accepted into Australia.  Our borders are too vulnerable to all and sundry.

    • Helen says:

      09:47am | 23/06/10

      The bottom line is, you can’t work for an organisation like St Johns Ambulance and say that you want to pick and choose who you attend based on their country of origin or whether you like the cut of their jib or not. Ms Ruprecht was just unsuited to the job and didn’t appreciate what its responsibilities are. She had no basis to complain about being booted out. Good on them.

      And Phil Osopher, I’d like some of what you’re smoking, please. Our borders? Too vulnerable? We’re a fracking island surrounded by hazardous oceans, if you hadn’t noticed. That is why we’re talking about boats, and why our refugee intake is a tiny, TINY fraction of what other developed nations take. Our contribution is way, way below the norm, and still we whinge.

    • Aussie mum says:

      11:53am | 23/06/10

      Helen,if you saw Ms Ruprecht’s being interviewed on tv,she never once said she won’t pick up anybody from anywhere,she was upset the government had spent multi millions of tax payers dollars upgrading the camp quarters that were good enough for hard working people living and working in Lenora but not good enough for illegals to live in,Mr Churchill said she said would choose who she picked up.all this behind close doors,rubbish,he had to justify himself rushing to Lenora with a counsellor in toe because she had a logo on her tee shirt,she apologized for that,this lady has given 12yrs of free service night and day to St Johns she was very suitable to them for all those years,and treated this way,don’t demean her,she deserved better from the community and this man,yes also our “REFUGEE” intake is tiny,only because we have cashed up illegals that have not spent one night with people in detentions camp or any other hideous place hoping someone will help them before it to late.they are paying $$$$ to enter our country,we should be taking more, the ones needing our help,these other developed countries you mention are land locked,and not invaded by illegal cashed up cue jumping country hopping boat people,we don’t have boarder protection,we have a tug service to tow these boats HOME,

    • Dan says:

      01:33pm | 23/06/10

      Aussie Mum, these are not illegals and nor are they ‘invading’ us! Also, considering that most countries in this region are not legally obligated to take refugees, to descrive them as ‘country hopping’ is false as well. In fact to describe them as ‘cue jumping’ is also false since there is no cue in many of these countries to jump.

      You may call yourself Aussie mum but you don’t reflect the attitudes of many of the mothers that I know!

    • Aussie mum says:

      03:10pm | 23/06/10

      Sorry you are right Dan there are no cues where these people are coming from,they are free to travel where ever they please,they have passport ,identification papers and money ,that is how they travel freely to Indonesia where they pay a lot of money to get on a boat to Australia, only then do they become poor refugees with no identification .there is far to many of them coming this way they are invading us ,by the time we wake up and shake ourselves it will be to late.do you honestly think they are fleeing their home country and passing through other country by camel train in the dead of night, we do have a obilation to help people in need,and should do everything we can and more ,mothers having their breast cut off with machetes so they cannot feed their baby’s,little kids being cut up by these things,poor people being robber of the nothing they do have,,people who don’t know what money looks like,who wish they don’t have to wake up and find their child has died of hunger during the night ,my grand daughter has a new friend who family were once these people,they are a beautiful family of 7,i listen to the mother telling the horror of these camps and how grateful she is her children will now go to school and grow up to be what ever they want to be now instead of burying them,widen your snug little circle of mothers talk to real people,i am a very proud Aussie mum, my son like many other sons and daughters is on deployment far from home

    • Dan says:

      05:10pm | 23/06/10

      Firstly, I don’t care whether you are a ‘very proud Aussie mum’ or not. They are not invading us. Do you realise that most ‘illegal’ immigrants come by plane?

      Furthermore, simply because someone has money does not lessen their refugee status. Not everybody who are persecuted are poor.

    • gerard says:

      10:19pm | 23/06/10

      it amazes me that people actually believe that asylum seekers would make their voyage in unseaworthy vessels risking death (and deaths occur quite frequently) opportunistically, ‘country shopping’ or whatever? would you? they do it because they have no choice. its quite simple; when the boats arrive, process the claims in a thorough but timely manner and if, like in the vast majority of cases, they are found to be genuine refugees, let them in. and aussie mum, i gotta wonder where you get your facts from, can you point me to a few reputable sources indicate that we are being invaded by hordes of people who can all be so aptly characterised in a few sentences?

    • Aussie mum says:

      10:45pm | 24/06/10

      Gerard,Western Australian newspaper,wed 16th june,Indonesion national police security and transnational affairs head Mr Saut Usman Nasution said they had detained migrants trying to get to Australia from a few hundred in 2007-2009 to 1300 so far this year,intensifying the countrys struggle to crack down on people smugglers,he went on to say rich people are paying $10,900 for a boat and $1000 for a fisherman to bring them to Australia they have a lot of money they’re willing to pay any amount,mostly males from Afghanistan,Sri Lanka,Myanmar,Iraq and Iran,Sunday timesSun 20th june Goverment sources admit they are running out of room for boat people,with a influx of 6000 due in the second half of this year, these people have money so why are they getting on unseaworthy vessels and making the dangerous voyage here,who are they that they cannot come through the front door,so far this week alone 300 on 5 boats have arrived,the illegal immigrants that come by plane over stay their visa’s ,to me with my supposedly limited intelligence a refugee is someone who has nothing,zero zilch who cann’t pay for but needs a safe place to live, we should be helping them first,    almost 10,000 illegal arrivals in 1 year ,invasion,

    • Another Aussie mum says:

      09:22am | 25/06/10

      Aussie Mum your intelligence may not be limited but your education certainly is. Do you think the jews fleeing the Third Reich were all people with nothing, zero, zilch when they fled? Some were, of course, but others tried to use their resources to save themselves and their families, as intelligent humans.
      The definition of a genuine asylum seeker is NOT that they have nothing on them at all but a reasonable fear of persecution or death in their country of origin. If you don’t understand this basic fact you don’t have the basic tools necessary to discuss this issue.

    • rodgers says:

      06:00pm | 24/10/10

      when they get here put them to work let them earn the right to be hear we in western australia need water let them build the pipe line to bring the water to wa i am 76 years of age i had to work for wati have no freebeeies

    • Helen says:

      09:29am | 25/06/10

      Nam Le, a so-called “boat person”, is now one of our leading prizewinning fiction writers. I know that’s not as important as olympic gold /sarcasm/ but it is still a pretty awesome contribution in my book. So “boat people” are not only becoming Australians, they’re helping to advance us as a country.

    • Aussie mum says:

      10:49pm | 29/06/10

      Other mum the basic fact are on the internet for you or anybody else to look up,not only did Jewish people but people from other countries flee the German’s who at the time believed they were the super race,it is   disrespectful to give these people as a example to your argument as so many weren’t able to flee,and the marjority of people you are defending come from countries that deny the holocaust ever happened,there is no comparison between the Vietnamese boat people and these one,the Vietnamese didn’t have fisherman that know the waters,satellite navigation,GPS,or mobile phones,they couldn’t tell anyone to send help if they were a day late,their journeys took months not days in very dangerous waters,not only from pirates but hostile area navys,they had to catch what food and water they could to survive,we will never know how many didn’t make it because we don’t know how many tried,once here they we put into detention camps no better the chicken coops,and stayed there for years before given visa’s,they weren’t given 5 star accommodation with sheridan sheets ,doona, fluffy white towels sensondyne tooth paste, plasma tv’s,and visa’s after 3months,they were given the basics ,they were the traumatized people,they didn’t have a choice of moving through several countries where they could have gotten santuary at any time ,they could only go to sea, the ones coming now are illegal cashed up cue jumpers,illegaly entering this country at the rate of 300 to 400 hundred a week they are invadeing our shores,any other country would blow them out of the water,

 

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