The festival of insults and policy inaction

Dave C says:

04:53pm | 17/07/10

So your telling us to go to a Hate Tony Abbott site, its a labour run site that pretends to be impartial. If you want to see the real Tony Abbott dont go to a partisan hate site about him run either by the Labour Party of people sympathetic to it.

Jane says:

05:05pm | 17/07/10

...and so it begins. Dirty Labor falling over themselves to litter the web with juvenile insult and sabotage.

“Whatever it takes” eh Alex?...in true Labor style.

I think people have had enough of desperate, deceiving, grubby Labor stooges and footsoldiers. None can match you for filth and bottom feeding.

Daniel White says:

05:09pm | 17/07/10

As you have no desire to actually publish any truth on your pathetic website with the statement “publishers accept no responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of any material ” One would say that you are a pathetic smear mercant who is just one of those gutless lying trolls that use the internet for their pathetic power trips saving them from actually accomplishing anything..

Help Australia decide, you and Conroy want to stiffle free speech by placing a filter that would only let your programme be broadcast. Decide to support the censorship and the stiffling of free speech by supporting Gillard.  You are a pathetic enabler of the most corrupt regime in Australia. I hope you are severely disappointed on the 22nd of August, because you want to censor the net and make Australia a Socialist country that controls its net and the freedoms of its population.

I hope you fail, because when you fail Alex, Australia will be a better place.

Fog Badger says:

06:07pm | 17/07/10

Ah, yes, Alex White. The old play-the-man tactic plus say-it-again-until-it-becomes-fact… What utter rubbish.

Super D says:

06:23pm | 17/07/10

Hey Alex did you use to call yourself Persephone?

Aitch B says:

06:29pm | 17/07/10

The ‘real Tony Abbott’, Alex?

Hardly. It’s just a hate filled blog full of rubbish posed by rusted on ALP supporters.

So when are the people posting there going to do the same on Gillard?

Never, I suspect…........

MarK says:

06:30pm | 17/07/10

Nice party site for the Laborites.

Have fun there.

Super D says:

06:30pm | 17/07/10

Hey Alex, maybe you should link to this website too.

http://alexwhite.org/

I’m assuming you are the same Alex White that describes himself as “a campaigns and communications professional working in the trade union movement”

Ben81 says:

07:14pm | 17/07/10

Typical, I only had to look at that for 3 seconds before I saw a reference to “working families” and a lie before closing the tab.
Yes i’m sure that site won’t make people stupider at all…

Alex White says:

07:42pm | 17/07/10

The site is not affiliated to Labor at all, and I encourage you to leave comments or contribute.

Janine says:

07:51pm | 17/07/10

Would you perhaps be the A White that runs and manages the pile of excrement that is the Tony Abbott Revealed site? 
Even though the aforementioned pile of excriment states that it is not affiliated with a political party, your rantings on your personal blog tend to be very much orientated towards Labor worship.

” All official content authorised by A White, Fairfield VIC 3078.”

Cassie says:

07:52pm | 17/07/10

Ah yes Alex White, the overweight(ironically) union member that supports Labor’s filter policy, hate to break it to you but it’s guys like you deserve to be banned from using the internet

Jane says:

07:55pm | 17/07/10

Bwahahhaa Super D - busted

GOLD

What a stooge

Aikon says:

08:57pm | 17/07/10

And Mr White, how is that garbage ‘Moving Forward’?  Labor and its faceless union puppets are treating the voting population as fools. Do you really think people will forget the waste, lies and gross incompetence your mob have delivered over the last three years? Get a grip Mr White, Labor and it’s union puppets do not deserve another term, despite thier obvious sense of entitlement, enough damage has been done stooge.

jb says:

10:09pm | 17/07/10

You are really pathetic, is this the example you wish to portray to our children on how behave as adults?
All I have seen from any of your school yard bullying campaigns has been pure unadulterated lies!
As the old slogan goes, never trust a lawyer!
Well lets add to that, Never trust a smiling assassin lawyer…

Brad of Bentleigh says:

09:20am | 18/07/10

I didn’t imagine that in your ca[pacity as “Communications and Campaigns Coordinator at NTEU”, Alexander, that you were required to campaign on behalf of the ALP.
No wonder Julia Gillard refused to rule out running a dirty campaign.

This sort of thing will back fire on you.

Does it break AEC rules for an ALP member to run a political disinformation site in an election campaign?

A Classic Western says:

09:28am | 18/07/10

Mmm,never heard of alex white,,Western Australia,,Alex,,you and I both know this is the Sword of Damocles and regardles how you spin it Labor are despised in the west,the mining tax is purely a bonus and the fact that the Puppet has red hair and a token gender based cynical placement shows you to be a spinner of bull…t. Post here what you think will resonate with voters in the west,voters who reject unions,voters used to taking their future in their own hands,making decisions themselves without needing to be told how to think or vote,you see alex, what you cant change is the culture,WA voters cant be intimidated,which has always worried the little union bosses and it is apparent you have not considered the eclectic nature of western voters and it will be the end of Labor this term and there is absolutely you can do to change it,Spin away alex, no ones listening

shane says:

10:04am | 18/07/10

Agreed. The weighting if liberal comments is substantial. They’re all lying hypocrites anyway. Both the politicians and the party hacks on this site.

brenton says:

10:43am | 18/07/10

I’d rather vote for someone who does what he says, and with conviction, versus an incompetent non-achiever like Gillard who will say/do anything to be elected.  She has already proven herself many times over to be a failure.

Mayday says:

10:59am | 18/07/10

How the Left love to Hate!

lee says:

11:07am | 18/07/10

I’m a swinging voter and all this site has reinforced is how low the Labor party supporters will go to have their party stay in power.  It is about serving themselves and not serve the country.  This disgusting site will now push me to vote Liberal.

macca says:

11:52am | 18/07/10

hahah, Alex White, the internet is a wonderful thing, and you’ve been completely found out. such a hack

Joan says:

01:17pm | 18/07/10

Jools can’t do any better than get a rent a thug crowd -  I hate Tony Abbott rally visible on TV news yesterday. While a Mums and Dads crowd with home made signs were out in for force for Rudd, Jools had her ugly-faced anti Abbott thugs and bullies out in force toting Labor party anti- Abbott placards - no muns and dads to be seen.

Richie says:

03:39pm | 18/07/10

Well I followed the link and what’s the first thing I see - Working Families. Alex White, I am on a “working families” diet. Everytime I read the phrase I vomit. Lost ten kilo’s in the last week! Oops here I go again - excuse me.

Chris L says:

05:44pm | 18/07/10

I only went to the front page of this link, and while the comments about Abbott’s “achievements” in his portfolio were correct, this is a rather juevenile way to campaign. Labor should be telling us what they intend to do, and how they intend to do it. It would be good if Liberal did this as well. At the moment I’m looking for alternatives (such as LDP).

Alex White says:

06:59pm | 18/07/10

Hmmm… my comment didn’t get published yesterday.

Thanks to everyone who’s replied to my comment.

Given that I’ve written about my involvement with TonyAbbottRevealed.org.au on my blog: http://alexwhite.org/2010/07/election-diary-day-1/ I hardly think it’s a secret.

The union I work for is not affiliated to any political party, and certainly is not affiliated to the ALP. The site is not paid for by any political party, but from my own pocket.

All the site does it put Tony Abbott’s own words on the internet. Visitors such as your good selves are free to make up your own mind.

Cheers
Alex

Scot says:

10:34pm | 18/07/10

Alex what a sick puppy you are. I am not voting for Labor because the voters do not control who is PM when they are in power now it is the NSW, Vic and SA fraction, juts like they have done in NSW for the past 15 years and turned us into a third world state. The gang of four stabbed Rudd in the back and threw him out after he had been put their by us voters. I am fed up with these dirty politics from the Labor party.

Dallas Beaufort says:

11:59pm | 18/07/10

” Future Proof ” is a misleading bait labor and the Greens would be proud of, Alex White! Lets see if these switches fool the electors this time or we wake up to the contempt being dished out.

Scot says:

12:34pm | 19/07/10

I am not voting for a caretaker Labor Prime Minister that stabbed in the back the PM that we voted for. The Gang of Four and the faceless men of Labor NSW, Vic and SA. What guarantee do we have that these men will not do the same thing again when they if they do not like any Labor PM. Just like they have done in NSW over 15 years and destroyed NSW into a third world country.

DC says:

03:01pm | 19/07/10

@Dave C and Jane:  The Liberals have run websites like this for quite a few years.  In particular, I tracked one such site - an anti-Anna Bligh website from a few years ago - to a Web Designer who had links to the South Australian Liberal Party.

There was also a website about Kevin Rudd from someone who I presume to be a Liberal supporter (or politician).

Fact is, both sides do it.

The reality is that as long as the information contained on the website- if it’s the truth featured on the website, why should it matter?

Is it any different whether a website says that a politician claims such and such or whether those words come directly from a politician?

Or a comment on a blog stating “Dirty Labor falling over themselves to litter the web with juvenile insult and sabotage.”

No.

DC says:

03:17pm | 19/07/10

Plenty of people are bagging the website and accusing it of being all lies.

Perhaps they could state exactly what the lies are on the site?

I’ve only had a look at one of the links on the site (Working Families), but it seems to be accurate with what Tony Abbott himself has said.

In regards to the Work Choices comment, Tony Abbott has himself stated (along with Bishop, Hockey, Abetz and Billson) that they wanted to bring back individual work place agreements, and also to rid the “unfair dismissal monkey” of the backs of small business.

As even the brain dead know, they were two key components of Work Choices.

Looking at the three articles on the Working Families page, they all contain quotes from Tony Abbott that are true, and there are also links to the original quotes, either on websites, or references to the book Battlelines (which I own a copy of).

If you have information that proves that they are false, I’d certainly like to see it.

If not, why are you complaining?

Mikeymike says:

04:27pm | 19/07/10

“The site is not affiliated to Labor at all, and I encourage you to leave comments or contribute.”
Sure.
See, you would like us to think that you’re just an ordinary citizen, doing your thing for freedom of speech.  But no, you’re a union hack.  And of course, unions are the place to go to get impartial political commentary.  Tell you what.  Give us a link of the last time you posted a favourable comment regarding the Liberal party.

And later:
“Given that I’ve written about my involvement with TonyAbbottRevealed.org.au on my blog: http://alexwhite.org/2010/07/election-diary-day-1/ I hardly think it’s a secret.”

Gee whiz Alex, I guess you really did cover yourself there!  Stupid us for not searching first! 

I wrote it down on a piece of paper and stuck it under a rock.  There you go!  Full disclosure!

“All the site does it put Tony Abbott’s own words on the internet. Visitors such as your good selves are free to make up your own mind.”

Are you suggesting for one second that your site is impartial and balanced?!?  You’ll present one side and tell us to “Make up your own mind.” 

Thanks Alex.  This is why I don’t trust Labor.  Or unions.

Ryan says:

07:22pm | 19/07/10

@Alex White: I opened the front page, only to be confronted by a hate website that promotes hate towards surf lifesavers in Australia.
I guess its funny to make fun of surf lifesavers for your own political needs hey Alex, hell lets make fun of our police men and women, our firefighters also.
I personally think its sick that someone can think its acceptable in Australia to have a go at those who dedicate their free time for nothing to save your life.

Dawson says:

06:01pm | 17/07/10

I disagree. What you’re translating has her being a “complete idiot parroting”, I saw more as Ms Gillard reinforcing her campaign slogan, making sure that people remembered it. Think about it - if she hadn’t used the term twenty-two times throughout the speech and instead used it just once, would anybody really remember it? Honestly, no. It’s advertising, that’s all it is. She used the term numerous times in the same way that TV ads are used several times throughout the show. I think that her repetition of the phrase shows her high level of intelligence and, most of all, her devotion to her campaign and to her beliefs.

Andy D says:

06:11pm | 17/07/10

One of the best questions from the press conference today was “If you lose the election will you be moving forward to the back bench”? Pure comedy gold. I’m guessing the journalist who asked that won’t be getting a Christmas card from Gillard this year.

Jane says:

08:00pm | 17/07/10

Dawson..”.reinforcing her campaign slogan”......yeah, like 29 times!!!

OMG it was cringeworthy….and so amateur.
Most agreed, it was a lost opportunity and a pretty poor performance from Gillard.
When she mentioned ‘trust’ I almost PMSL…...I’m sure she means the same ‘trust’ that poor ol’ Kev copped a decent serving of.

‘Moooving forward’....hahha yeah…because looking back is pretty scary eh?

Jane the elder says:

01:35am | 18/07/10

We had one counting the “Forwards” and the other doing countdowns on the number of seconds it would take for the robotic head swing to stare directly into the camera in reply to a question.

Perhaps the journos could be prevailed upon to put their questions on an auto cue, it would be easier on Joolyas neck and she wouldn’t have to acknowledge the people at all.

Jane says:

10:28am | 18/07/10

Elder Jane…it really was a joke..so scripted and FAKE. The robotic head turn complete with shark eyes.

Maybe Labor have really just resurrected the mechanical ‘Jaws’ prop bought cheap from the ‘77 movie set….a white pointer (complete with stringed attachment and manipulation from the union backroom boys) with a wig!......

...Anyone see desperate Swan on Today this morning with Oakes?...pleading and desperately trying to adher to “make it between Gillard and Abbott”....and other simplistic, cliched and jingoistic scripted ‘must says’....hahaha
If Rudd was a ‘b’ grade actor, Swan must be an ‘f’ and should never have been given a speaking part.
The comedy aspect was promising however.

This is going to be good..it’s Labor’s to lose.

brenton says:

10:52am | 18/07/10

I had the fun of listening to everyone’s commentary yesterday on the radio as I was traveling for 10 hours in the car.  Julia’s speech was terrible, or disappointing at best.  Abbott’s was better, but not great either.  Julia’s endless “I believes” and “moving forwards” was extremely empty, not inspirational and not statesmanlike, as I think a leader should be.  I hope voters are using their ears as well as their eyes in this campaign.

CynicalGoat WA says:

11:56am | 18/07/10

Patricia Karvalis from the Oz I’m pretty sure was the purveyor of that piece of journo gold Andy.  She should have actually directed the question at Government House where I’m sure Bill Shorten was having a cuppa with the mother-in-law when Kath and Kims voice coach popped in for the “Unelected Women’s” love in.
Shorten, Arbib and Howes will be the one’s who decide who occupies the opposition front benches from August 23 onwards. Mind you it guarantees that Kev won’t be the shadow minister for Jack 5hit with those clowns running the show.

matilda says:

02:01pm | 18/07/10

The slogans have started. “Moving forward” will be the oft-used slogan by the Gillard govt during this very short election campaign. Moving forward to what? Moving forward to a world where shopkeepers cannot employ school students after school for anything less than 3 hours per shift due to the governments ideologically blinkered modern awards? Many schools finish at 3 or 3.30pm – most shops close at 5.30pm. Moving forward to increased industrial disputation? The numbers don’t lie – 11,300 working days were lost to industrial disputation in the September quarter 2007 – moving forward to the September quarter 2009 we find 29,300 working days were lost due to industrial disputation. Moving forward indeed!

DC says:

03:51pm | 19/07/10

Tony Abbott has been reinforcing his own slogans, despite his claim that he wouldn’t have any slogans.

“Work Choices is dead”, “Work Choices is buried”, “Work Choices is cremated”.

If only it was true.

Abbott has been harping on for the past 9 months that he would go to the election with a clear policy on work place reform, and now he says that he won’t?  And that we should trust him?  That there will be no changes - only tweaks?

What a load of BS - watch his body language in any interview - he doesn’t even believe it.

Abbott can’t even read from the script properly - he gets flustered, refuses to answer questions and says one thing in one interview and something completely different.  Lie after lie after lie after lie.

Tony Abbott is a renowned liar - the only people who believe him are the Liberal Party supporters because they *have* to believe him.

Talk about blind faith.

Polywatcher says:

09:34am | 18/07/10

If I hear those two words, “Moving Forward” again I will be turning off the TV and radio and will ignore any printed matter that mentions the words.  “Moving Forward”  literally has a turn off factor, but dont tell Labor. There are certain funeral advertisments running on TV at the moment. I cant grab the remote control quick enough to hit the mute button. This is what will happen with “Moving Forward”.

Jane says:

03:18pm | 18/07/10

She’s deliberately cut the ‘slogan’ out now by the sounds…again, proving that anything Labor does is populist and poll driven…...embarrassed by the whole farce of it.

I note she’s happy to put the ‘moving forwards’ sentiment on the backburner at whim though….when she chooses to hark ‘back’ to certain Coalition ‘doings’ that suit…...but anything negative re Labor in the past…OFF LIMITS..hahhaa
No such luck Hoolia…...there’s a plethora of damning ‘looking backwards’ stuff that are extremely relevant and that you will not bully into hiding.

I love the regional cities suck job…..admitting that STATE Labor governments have failed in their duty of care for infrastructure and housing…...by by-passing then in favour of councils…..hahahaa
...also note she ignored the question that the funds were already available and this announcement was just a repackaging of that same thing. Deceitful, lying Labor…led dutifully by Judas Gillard.

WayneT says:

10:19pm | 18/07/10

Such irony in that ‘Moving Forward’.  Labor have put this country so far back that there is only one way it can go now - forward.

DC says:

04:31pm | 19/07/10

@WayneT:  And Abbott will move it even further back.

@Jane:  And you think Abbott is any different about being driven by Polls?  How do you explain his backflips on work place reform?

For the past 9 months, Tony Abbott and the Liberals have promised to go to an election based on work place reform - specifically, bringing back individual contracts and getting rid of the unfair dismissal “monkey”.

This was a message repeated by Joe Hockey, Julie Bishop, Bruce Billson and Eric Abetz.

Suddenly, on Saturday, Abbott through all those promises out the window.

He’s either been lying to small business for the past 9 months, or he’s lying to the Australian electorate right now.

Which is it?  And can he be trusted?  No chance.

Tony Abbott is as trustworthy as a used car salesman who’d sell his own mother to the highest bidder.

Gregg says:

09:51pm | 18/07/10

I’d reckon it’s beyond their technological understanding Dan or at least that of Julia’s for Tony I suppose does have some seeing as he rides a bike and that’s a good start for the zero emissions report is full of holes.
It probably suits Labor and the Greens for they have had and continue to have policies and promises full of holes.
When we have to resort to solar base loading, we’ll be making do with a lot less power than we have now and bike riding and budgie smugglers will be more the way forward than we can appreciate.

Evan Findlay says:

07:56pm | 17/07/10

Dave,
It’s going to be a long election campaign without having to continually correct the spelling of people like yourself. It’s LABOR not Labour! At least get the spelling right, if nothing else.

Rob r Charteris says:

10:23pm | 17/07/10

Have you seen the latest liberal originality…. like the new english PM he got a contract for the Australian people… actually an Action contract. This guy Abbott is a boofhead, he is so original he has to pull out old howard policies… Julia is going to wipe the floor with this inbred git

MarK says:

01:47am | 18/07/10

inbred?

Wow you really need to calm down mate. You are going to bust a boiler before this over because it will look messy for you trust me.

Rob r Charteris says:

09:09am | 18/07/10

MarK says:12:47am; If I was an inbred git I would be offended too, sorry to offend you by putting you in the same basket son

Dave C says:

11:39am | 18/07/10

Thank you for the corrections of spelling and grammar. You are correct.

macca says:

11:56am | 18/07/10

@Rob, and Gillard is so original she copied Howard’s Boat People policy? and Rudd copied Howard’s ETS and Tax policies at the previous election?

The most original thing the Labor government has produced in the past 3 years has been the RSPT, and look how that finished. Other nominations for most orignal Labor policies include the roof insulation scheme and Gillard’s million dollar BBQ sheds

tim says:

12:09pm | 18/07/10

I have been reading these blogs for a while and I can say that Rob R Charteris, Persephone and T Chong are completely biased and no one in their right mind should listen to anything they say.

bf says:

12:19pm | 18/07/10

I disagree.  I think the Libs will close the gap as the election draws nearer, but not enough for a majority.  Gillard is yet to be fully interrogated by the media and/or public, but her time has come.  The Libs will fall short of a majority, but it will come down to a few seats that matter - the marginals.  Who knows, we may get a hung parliament?  It will only take 250,000 - 300,000 voters to shift their votes nationally, based on the latest poll of 800!! - to have a 50:50 two party preferred split.

elhombre says:

07:15pm | 18/07/10

Evan, dropping a single vowel doesn’t stop making the federal labour party the political arm of the ALP. 70% of the front bench of this appalling government are ex union slugs, so I for one will always spell it “Labour”

Evan Findlay says:

09:25pm | 18/07/10

Elhombre,
That says more about your intellect than anything else. How do you expect people to take you seriously when you are too lazy to bother to correct your spelling. It seems to be a common trait among the conservative voter…..laziness.

Rob r Charteris says:

11:00pm | 17/07/10

Against the Man says:04:22pm “Think about how much this Labor government has cost you the average Australian” so how much has this government cost you? got and average dollar count??? I bet not full of BS as usual

Against the Man says:

09:03am | 18/07/10

Well Rob taken into account national debt, increase utility costs and private health insurance (which should never have risen if kev o7 invested in them as advised) alone would have cost an increase in five grand in the last 3 years. Now in the near future the extra layer added to health care plus the states having to pick up any additional costs over their 40% in health, I’d say there is going to be a tax hike in some form. I feel sorry for the labor supporters who blindly support their party that is costing them money. Health care is a failure and a money machine because the minister for health doesn’t know what she is doing. And by the way Rob do you have a job? The reason I ask is because any working Australian who pays bills must know we are in hard times. Sunday Telegraph last week shows people are spending less, even eating 2 basic meals a day to pay the mortgage. Wake up dude!

Rob r Charteris says:

02:38pm | 18/07/10

Against the Man says:08:03am; Like I thought all BS, maybe you should wake up!!! Health Care or private health care was rising long before Kev arrived at the lodge. You and every other sniveling lib are dyed from the same cast as Bush’s middle america. You obviously cant answer an honest question you must have a bit of the Baloney from Tony eh’ lol

Jason CR says:

04:01pm | 18/07/10

Rob
What happened to Labor’s 2007 election policy on keeping a lid on rising house prices and rental affordability? 

Your housing spokeswoman Tanya Plibersek said the coalition had no policy to solve the housing affordability crisis.

A Labor government would deliver real solutions on the issue, she said, centred around a $603 million rental affordability scheme. She continued on with.

We won’t increase the first home buyers grant at any stage as it tends to only raise prices.  Your mob duly doubled the grant and a spike occurred overnight.  Then a relaxation on foreign investment allowed a splurge of overseas investors bumping up housing prices again!!!

Melbourne median house price has risen by 28% in the last year alone, yet wages haven’t grown and we’ve had a GFC apparently!

That’s where the increase is.  Rents have gone through the roof to a stage where real estate agents are having mini auctions for rental properties.

I have no idea how young couples can possibly save for their first home.  Oh maybe that’s what Julia means with population sustainability….push the house prices up further and our young couples wont be able to have a family. 

You did ask Rob.

Against the Man says:

10:24pm | 18/07/10

Nice angry answer Rob with the classic Gillard avoidance of the main issue which was the promise for the Commonwealth to take over health. What is this 60/40 spilt nonsense? Adding another layer and sure Labor can boast about spending more money but is it getting results or paying more people to do paperwork? Where in the budget is there an allocation of $300 million for training of the 200% increase in medical graduates And the MyHospital issue, has it been fine tuned or is this another rush Labor release to point fingers rather then offer solutions? Oh what about all those Superclinics that were supposed to open?

And have you forgotten Mr Rudd? Where is he Rob? Where is he?

Ben81 says:

07:38pm | 17/07/10

Generic, empty and predictable post as always, Rob.

Super D says:

07:39pm | 17/07/10

Moving Forward sure sounded like a good plan to me.

Gorgonzola says:

08:25pm | 17/07/10

Please,spare us your spin rob,all the topline bloggers have read this mob like a book,and have assessed accurately the fate of this crowd,defeat is hard,but you will be allright,even though you will be smashed,its not the policies that will decide this election,it is a comprehensive disgust the libs and the greens,independents and the disenfranchised feel towards these poor salesmen selling poor policies, and taking no responsibility,,,say one thing and do nothing,truly a dud govt,and here is a sting,I am a Master builder,,,Building BER,and coping it sweet,thanks Labor,but no vote,

Rob r Charteris says:

10:51pm | 17/07/10

Good to see the usual snivelling lib’s Ben81 says:06:38pm and Gorgonzola says:07:25pm feeling sorry for themselves, even if they’re more than slightly delusional. Poor didums…. Gorgonzola I’m very much looking forward to election day ; )

Philip Crowley says:

12:52am | 18/07/10

Charteris, you are a particularly bitter and twisted piece of work. I abhor ad hominem attacks, however in your case I’d make an exception. I base that decision on the fact you are incapable of anything but such attacks.

MarK says:

01:45am | 18/07/10

Moving forward….hope and change…..yeh awesome stuff.

Oh Rob let us remember what we are moving forward from. Three years of Gillard as deputy PM, of her in the gang of 4, of her in a government that in her own words had lost its way.

Now let us see what has changed in three weeks.

She backdowns and backflips to the “evil” miners. You know those foreigners stealing our stuff. She then gets the treasurer to lie about it. True cost 7.5 billion not 1.5 as claimed and all to get an “election issue” off the table. Gutless and inept. She leaves small business out of the discussions angering them. Awesome stuff.

Moving right along in her tick and flick we hear we are going to build off shore processing centers in East Timor in a “lurch to the right”. But wait….. East Timor was not asked. Nor was PNG as the OMFG fix this quick place. In fact we have no place to send them except Nauru. HAHAHAHAHA.

So that is it. The sum of moving forward.

Let go of the hate Rob. You can justify voting for Tony by having the comforting thought he could not be worse anyway.

Moving forward from Rudd incompetence to Gillard incompetence doesn’t seem that smart does it?

Same horse different jockey.

She is gone.

TimB says:

04:29am | 18/07/10

What effort? What plan? Telling us we’re “moving forward” is just empty rubbish. A plan needs something called “details” for it to work.  And judging by Labor’s track record they arent too good with details. Whenever they reveal them they end up being wrong.

As for a bygone Era…I’d LOVE for Abbott to take us back to the last Coalition period. Policies worked. Things got done. Money was saved, not wasted. People wern’t KILLED by poorly thought out government programs.

Going backwards seems like a great idea to me. Why is backwards such a bad direction?  Sometimes moving forward just sends you over the cliff.

BTW Rob I’ll take a “snivelling Lib” who actually is capable of logical thought over a “snivelling Labor drone” such as yourself who’s posts consist of nothing more than empty one-eyed spin and lazy insults.

You never answered my challenge from a few weeks ago either. What will you do if Labor lose the election? Will you man up here and admit how wrong you were? Will you whine and invent a conspiracy theory? Or will you do a Persephone and disappear without a trace?

Rob r Charteris says:

09:02am | 18/07/10

Philip Crowley says:11:52pm like your buddy MarKette your are a giggle

Rob r Charteris says:

09:19am | 18/07/10

MarK says:12:45am; and you reckon I’m going to burst my boiler lololol your a giggle, better be careful there those knicker bockers they’ll get twisted and you’ll start sounding like Nana Mouskouri

Joan says:

02:40pm | 18/07/10

How about focusing on Julia saying that Labor has lost its way, how about Julia wandering around Australia for past 2 weeks looking for a way out of the stew she helped to make and how about focusing on the big L plate hanging from her neck as she assures Australians she is learning from her mistakes. Julia Gillard is the big mistake, no matter how much botox or red hair colour she uses to dolly up and no matter how much bleach she uses to clean up after ousting Rudd, Gillard is the big mistake. Thugs and bullies carrying antiAbbot placards are her supporter base for all to see yesterday TV news- not one mum and dad in sight.

Rob r Charteris says:

02:43pm | 18/07/10

TimB says:03:29am; LOL is that the best you can do??? whinge whinge and more whinge…. btw challenge, boy to got me scared now lol. Your obviously a bit thin skinned poor didums.

jpk says:

03:27pm | 18/07/10

Which Labor Faction are you paid by?

Jane says:

03:36pm | 18/07/10

You can’t teach an old dog new tricks’ Rob? Really?...Labor might disagree with you there..seems they’ve got an old red b*tch who has performed extraordinary ( if ill executed) backflips to try and prove the tricks of old never even existed, let alone the new ones they are attempting!!! :o

Jason CR says:

06:55pm | 18/07/10

Rob, what does lololol mean?  You use it quite a bit.
Oh don’t worry I just googled it…it’s used by teenagers on MSN and in texts.  Cheers.

TrueOz says:

08:20pm | 18/07/10

Joolya has one plan only - getting elected.

TimB says:

09:52pm | 18/07/10

@Rob
The only thing I’m worried about is if the majority of the voting population is as moronic as you. No wonder the country is going down the toilet.
Any chance you might learn to communicate properly sometime soon? Most of us intelligent people here are having trouble deciphering the unintelligible babble that infests your posts.
It’s called vocabulary and grammar. Please do not post on the Punch again until you have something of substance to share with us.

Alice says:

11:23pm | 17/07/10

Can I say this to this great nation, this very great nation.  Can I say that all my life, my life as the daughter of immigrant parents, I have always moved forward, as moving forward is where I wish to see all Australians move. 

Can I also say (Bill, are you there Bill Shorten, can I say this?) that there is only one occasion in my entire life when I believed it to be necessary that anything should ever, ever move backwards. 

This was just three short(en)  weeks ago, when I and my union heavy advisors moved backwards my senior colleague and the elected Prime Minister of Australia, the Hon. Kevin Rudd MP. 

Yes, can I also say that if I had not moved Kevin backwards I would never have gone so far forward myself.

Rob r Charteris says:

10:06pm | 17/07/10

jb says:04:41pm; well you know it’s always easy to make the simpletons laugh and snivelling libs too, they’re very simple. All they along with abbott can do is look to the past, He sure is Howard’s love child, that’s about the only thing he has got right. I love the fact he is opposition leader, it’s Labor best asset!!!!

iansand says:

10:35pm | 17/07/10

Rob r Charteris - That is unfair.  Bronny was also in the parenting mix.

Louisa says:

12:18am | 18/07/10

Rob r Charteris - I guess that you have to purchase a fairly large shoulder pad?  Who sells them Big W, Target ??

BobM says:

03:39pm | 18/07/10

How’s the sit down money going Rob?  You seem to have plenty of time to write your rubbish.

Jason CR says:

07:51pm | 17/07/10

Lets have someone who has stuffed up our hosital systems even more and has totally stuffed up education.  You’re right I’ll take the opposition thanks.
Kirner ran Victoria, Nixon ran the police force….need I say more?

GST was taken to an election and the voters decided you twit. 

If we’re bringing up past leaders, lets talk about the recession we HAD to have.  If we have to have them, why are Labor now bragging that they saved us from one recently???  Confused hmmm   No child will live in poverty by 1996 *yawn*
I have no ambition to knife Rudd…..

Just Sayin' says:

07:59pm | 17/07/10

If you still haven’t worked out that people look like idiots when they parrot that line about the GST, you’ll probably never work it out, so I’m not going to bother explaining it.  You can just keep on looking stupid while the people around you give each other a knowing glance or nod and continue discussing things that are probably far too difficult for you to understand.  Make yourself useful and get me a beer.

V says:

09:16pm | 17/07/10

“A woman ran New Zealand qyuite successfully for many years”
- You should probably check on the details on that one.
i.e massive increases in government spending with little to show for it in terms of results. Sound familiar?

Jane the elder says:

01:45am | 18/07/10

What planet are you from?

“A woman ran New Zealand qyuite successfully for many years” - almost into the ground!

We were in NZ the day after the election.  The euphoria and sense of relief that she was gone were palpable.  Don’t even think about trying to spout that sort of pfaff in NZ…..

In terms of no policies - ahem, policies that lead us into borrowing $100 million per day? Start counting precious - it ALL has to be paid back and the government doesn’t generate money, it’s us producers and working families moving forward into huge financial strife.

Jane the elder says:

01:50am | 18/07/10

Oops, I forgot to mention.

Helen Clarke - Labor PM, ran NZ into the ground

Maggie Thatcher - conservative PM - drageed the UK out of the Labor/Union inspired muck.

Wrong analogy precious.

Jason says:

07:45pm | 17/07/10

Rubbish,
          Should Abbott win he will have the same senate until their term expires next year.

Super D says:

08:54am | 18/07/10

I hadn’t considered that.  I suppose they could in fact get re-elected and reintroduce workchoices before the new senate takes its place.  This would however be self defeating.  The libs would be voted out at the next election and never trusted again.  As such there is no chance that the libs will backflip on their promise not to change the fair work legislation in their next term.

I think we can expect that they will change the regulations to allow schoolkids to work for 2 hours after school rather than the currently mandated 3.

Jason says:

02:07pm | 18/07/10

Super D,
          I wasn’t saying it would happen, I would agree with you that it wont but the tweaking Abetz was talking about could happen unhindered

Alex White says:

07:50pm | 17/07/10

Hi Nemesis12,

Unless your comment was filled with profanity or offensive content (e.g. racism, links to p-rnography), it would be unlikely to be deleted.

Abbott may be a life saver or fire fighter, but that does not qualify him to be Prime Minister. Peter Costello (the Liberal’s greatest Treasurer) didn’t even want him as deputy leader, and slammed his economic credentials, saying he had a “Crocodile Dundee” approach. Doesn’t sound like PM material to me.

Louisa says:

12:23am | 18/07/10

Alex White

Mr Abbott has a Bachelor of Economics. Do either Gillard or Swan?

MarK says:

01:51am | 18/07/10

Alex I will post on your site. See if mine gets through.

Should be a hoot testing out your free speech moderation. You must be a sad little man in real life. By the way how much do you get paid by either the unions or labor to spread the misinformation?

Oh one other question. Do you really think the Australian people are so intellectual dim as to be swayed by a blatant popaganda site such as you are running? Does labor think it really does work?

John says:

03:39pm | 18/07/10

Its ok Alex, you don’t have to disguise the word “pornography”. The filter won’t be imposed until after the election.

rudy says:

08:11pm | 17/07/10

You ‘physically cringed’? What, like cowered in the corner, or went catatonic or something?  Admit it - you’re a Lib HQ troll. Want to talk about how Abbott gained his party’s leadership by one vote after betraying Turnbull? You’re sure Abbott will win, why not take the long odds on offer and bet on it?

Freeman says:

01:55pm | 18/07/10

how was abbott’s challenge a betrayal of turnbull, rudy?
the Libs were devided over the ETS, Turnbull was pig headed in trying to support the ETS when the libs were against it by majority.

Gregg says:

10:10pm | 18/07/10

Rudy,
Tony Abbott did not betray Turnbull for unlike the Labor party where everyone is expected to toe the party line, the Liberals are a far greater democracy in that the parliamentary representatives are free to air different views and in this case the issue was strong enough to have the parliamentarians want to vote on it which they did.
What transpired with Kev was not a vote but just an ousting.
Any thinking person cringes about Gillard and her moving forward for moving where and with what! other than her smirk on having the popularity with the numbers boys.

Jason CR says:

11:35pm | 17/07/10

Workchoices didn’t cause 4 deaths or 150 housefires - or bring 150+ boats our way. 

I suppose you can’t really talk about Labor’s achievements though.  Scare campaigns are better.

Who can forget back in 2007 - Labor’s scare campaign declaring that Howard wouldn’t see out his term if re-elected - and Costello would be in charge.  Hypocrites again Evan.

Evan Findlay says:

01:05pm | 18/07/10

Jason CR,
You have a short memory. John Howard admitted that he would hand over the reigns to Costello during the next term should they be re-elected. There was no need to run a fear campaign, Howard did that by announcing Costello would be Prime Minister.

By announcing his backdown on Workchoices, his putting it off until the following term, Abbott has just demonstrated that he stands for nothing. His backdown is no different to Rudd’s backdown on the ETS. No policies and no principles.

Paul says:

10:37am | 19/07/10

Evan,
Abbott didnt declare that workplace reforms were the ‘greatest moral challenge of our time…’.
The agenda of a government (or alternative government) always changes, as things are made more or less of a priority. However, to make a statement like this, and THEN shelf it, made Rudd & Co (and yes, ‘Co’ very much includes Gillard) look very very silly.

chris says:

08:46pm | 17/07/10

Ben,

Brilliant!!! - And who says art does not imitate life!!!

I was thinking of another Simpsons moment when Sideshow Bob was running for mayor. If Julia could perform some of the gymnastics that he did then she has my vote. It worked for the kiddies.

Steve says:

09:29am | 18/07/10

(Sideshow Bob’s Mayoral Campain Commercial) Voice: Mayor Quimby supports revolving door prisons. Mayor Quimby even released Sideshow Bob. A man twice convicted of attempted murder. Can you trust a man like mayor Quimby? Vote Sideshow Bob for Mayor.

 
Barlow: Sideshow Bob, councilman Les Whinein says that you’re not experianced enough to be mayor. Sir, what do you have to say about that?
Bob: I’d say that ‘Les Whinein’ ought to do more thinkin and less whinin. (laughter)
Lisa: There’s no councilman Les Whinein!
Bart: Heh heh, good line though.

BobM says:

09:05am | 18/07/10

Bernie’s dead so he can’t vote. Neither can the four young men who died because of Labor’s insulation batt fiasco.
And Julia Gillard is a caring, compasionate person? Ask Kevin Rudd.

Marilyn says:

04:40pm | 18/07/10

Bob, the bloody insulation program did not cause the men’s deaths, shocking stupidity by ignorant employers and householders greed did.

Get your hand off it.

Another 10 people died in mines in the same period, another in the SA desal plant this week.

How many ministers have lost their heads over those deaths?

Zero.

So grow up.

Chris L says:

06:08pm | 18/07/10

To be fair, BobM, the blame for those deaths go to the insulation businesses that did not follow the two upgrades in regulations Garrett put in place after being warned about the potential risks. Liberal may be able to organise such things as the Insulation scheme and BER better than Labor if they tried, but education and environment just don’t seem to be very important to them.

Gregg says:

10:02pm | 18/07/10

Marilyn, the government had warnings about the inadequate controls in place for the insulation program just like with Julia’s BER that she needs to be held accountable.
The government chose to ignore warnings because the Gang wanted a merry spending spree.
Spend, spend and the deaths and fires you cannot defend.
Typical of Labor spending like there’s no tomorrow and in this case there wasn’t.

Jason CR says:

11:48pm | 17/07/10

I probably wouldn’t refer to my notes either if I said Moving Forward every second word.
So throwing cash around like confetti saved us from financial doom and gloom did it?  I actually spent mine on an overseas trip with 8 mates who used their handout the same way.  All of it spent overseas steve.  How did that help Australia at the time?

Louisa says:

12:26am | 18/07/10

STeve

Gillasrd didn’t have to look at her notes very often for two reasons. !. Every sercond word was “going forward” and 2. she had weeks to write it and was aware when she was going to visit the GG.  Mr Abbott had no notice and he was, in part, responding to her address.

Jason CR says:

12:58am | 18/07/10

Louisa,
        To be fair to Julia I’m not sure she even knew when the election would be called. 

I’m tipping she’s been sitting beside the phone waiting for the call from NSW.

Swing Voter says:

09:42am | 18/07/10

He had to read from his notes. If it’s not written, it doesn’t count!

Barbara Collins says:

10:53am | 18/07/10

Steve she did have the benefit of knowing when she was going to call the election and therefore had plenty of time to prepare her speech.

Evan Findlay says:

04:18pm | 18/07/10

Jason CR,
Did you book through an overseas travel agent? No…... then you helped a local business. You helped to keep check in people, security, baggage handlers, caterers, cleaners and the like in work. Did you take a cab to and from the airport? You see, your stimulus payment helped the economy.

Timmy says:

06:03am | 19/07/10

Steve,
It’s a load of crap that the ALP saved us from Recession. As it turns out the 900 cheques added a tiny amount to our GDP and made squat difference. We avoided recession because Chinese demand for our resources didn’t collapse and our banks kept lending, indirectly due to prudent regulation from APRA.

If the ALP was serious about Stimulus it would have invested the 900 buck cheques on productive assets and not pissed it up the wall.

To suggest that the Aussie economy has done relatively well because of the ALP stimulus and not the structural differences between the US, European and Aussie economies is just a load of horse crap.

Marilyn Shepherd says:

04:17am | 18/07/10

Because it is illegal to turn away anyone who simply asks for help.

You lot seem to think some great and mysterious process happens when people seek asylum.

All they do is file an application form for a visa to stay.

That hardly warrants chucking them in prison now does it?

Laugh at the young libs says:

09:46am | 18/07/10

Well Tony trains 5 hours a day, will he have time to run a country. Make sense you Goose, comments like this deserve to be laughed at

Black haired assasin says:

01:11pm | 18/07/10

So when are e getting the next Laurie Oakes installment…...

Laugh at the young libs says:

09:43am | 18/07/10

No, only when it written can you believe it, not when he says it.

Swing Voter says:

09:24am | 18/07/10

He also said nothing is policy unless it’s in writing, that makes it harder for voters to know what’s on the table and what isn’t.

Evan Findlay says:

05:06pm | 18/07/10

Bob, So what do you call a man that gives “Rock solid, ironclad guarantees” and then goes back on his word. What do you call someone who says ” Paid maternity leave, over my dead body” and then proposes a tax to fund paid parental leave? What do you call a man that say’s “Under a coaltion government there will be no new taxes” and then less than a month later proposes a new tax on big business?I know what you call him, the RH member for Warringah and leader of the Liberal party, Mr Tony Abbott.
Is that the sort of credibility you talk of?
You state that at least Tony is telling the truth about his lying, but how do you know? This is a man that has stated he lies. Could he be lying when he says he lies? A man that openly admits to telling mis-truths to the Australian electorate and you somehow see this trait as some sort of admirable quality. Maybe teachers should teach our children how to lie, at least better than Tony as he always seems to get caught out.

MarK says:

01:52am | 18/07/10

Easily bought there old son. Oh I would check your facts too.

Just saying.

Jane the elder says:

01:56am | 18/07/10

The pensioners are also copping the 60% price rise in electricity, the 15% price rise in food, increased pharmaceutical costs, less dental care and the nurses in the retirement homes have copped a $200pw decrease in their pay.

Perhaps you need work on your short term memory?

Mayday says:

11:08am | 18/07/10

The NSW Dept of Housing (Labor) made sure they took a piece of that pension increase, remember that?

Evan Findlay says:

04:50pm | 18/07/10

Jane the Elder,
The decrease in Assistant in Nursing, EEN and RN pay was reversed and subsequently there was no loss in wages. Just for your memory!

Gregg says:

03:17am | 18/07/10

UYep Jason, we need to keep the fans going to blow all the Labor crud away.
Julia’s mantra may be moving forward but some who post on here seem to have snivelling high in their vocabulary.
A great pity they’re unable to discuss anything too rationally but I suppose with the standards of the last three years that are now having the chickens come home to roost, what can we expect but lies to cover up.

Your name:Tony of Poorakistan SA 5095 says:

09:11am | 18/07/10

It just comes across that way because *they* can read and write . .

Young Libs Forum says:

09:19am | 18/07/10

What you didn’t know? The young libs come in here and try to sway anyone they can. It’s a good tactic, except that the same people come here, so they’re not getting any new points. Though to be fair, labor stalwarts do the same thing, it’s just more blatant at the Oz. I always come and read for a laugh

Rob r Charteris says:

10:02am | 18/07/10

Your right there Jason, fortunately it is the only one. Which give you an idea of how small Tony Baloney who is not just Phoney but also Dodgy (claims to be able to fix his QLD mate’s legal problems) support based really is. Can someone wipe Tony’s nose for him he needs all the support he can get.

Henry says:

11:21am | 18/07/10

You got that right!!

Andy D says:

11:35am | 18/07/10

Perfect Labor response to widespread criticism by the community. It’s not that something is wrong, it’s just that the Liberal fans are the only ones commenting.

Jason Smith, your remark says so much more about you than it does about the “liberal fans”.

iansand says:

11:58am | 18/07/10

Pretty much.  The sad thing is that they think their love fest is what the rest of the world thinks.

macca says:

12:06pm | 18/07/10

No, just a site where those who actively sit a computer on a regular basis vent. Current polling is 52 - 48, and considering many unionised employees (who are likely to vote Labor) would not have regular access to a computer they are less likely to voice their opinions in this forum. The site is unlikely to be biased, rather a reflection of the demographic that regularly visits it.

john says:

12:39pm | 18/07/10

It definitely seems that way at times Jason, I like to think of them as the “vocal minority”.

Gman says:

01:38pm | 18/07/10

haha Jason it seems so… why i don’t understand where these people have been living for the last ten years. Abbott calling Julia ‘a political assassin haha hilarious! how did he become leader of the opposition again? Ex- Pm Howard was far more interested in being an US’s lap dog than running the country. Oh yes, they delivered a surplus (thanks to the miners), and where’s all the investment in hospitals, roads, and better services, yep they forgot about that too. So what’s the point on having money in the bank when you are starving? I don’t really care who’s running the country as long as they are doing a good job. And what’s the story with the Unions? If it wasn’t for them, you still would be slaving away with no rights whatsoever, Oh I forgot liberals like to be scr*** by the big companies.

brenton says:

03:38pm | 18/07/10

What a simplistic, almost childish, and pointless comment.  People tend to forget is that currently, based on current polling, 48% of Australians support the Coalition on a two-party preferred basis… so as you’d expect, around 50% of comments will be pro-Coalition and 50% Labor/Greens.  So what’s your point?  And no, I’m not a young Liberal, nor and I a member of any party, and not ‘old school’ Liberal.

Rob r Charteris says:

02:48pm | 18/07/10

Bob says:06:17am; aaaaawe Gee Bob you really have hurt my feelings now lolololol silly billy, here I’ll poke my chin out and you can have another shot.  ; )

Rob r Charteris says:

02:56pm | 18/07/10

geoffm says:08:39am; So you’re saying prices never rose under the previous government? man I want whatever you have been smoking. Haven’t seen petrol prices reach $1.50+ per litre under Labor as it did under Howard. Government debt is not a bad thing. Hoarding money while infrastructure falls apart is anohter thing entirely. Oh yeah! bring on the election!!!!

Will says:

09:33pm | 20/07/10

Sure we have infrastructure here in NSW. The infrastructure that works well is called the Federal Highways and they went from a poor quality potholed shambles to pretty good over the course of the Howard era. It is however a shame that infrastructure that should be maintained by the NSW State government is actually literally falling apart whilst the State’s debt is ballooning.

My brother works as a Town Planner at a development company and he could tell you some stories. Mainly about how they have to implement and pay for all the infrastructure in their new land developments themselves. This because they can not get the government to live up to it’s responsibility of handling the infrastructure. So explain to me how my government that spends so much money that they continue to rack up more debt is doing such a wonderful job. All this without doing the job that they are meant to be doing in the process.

Prices will always rise in the long term. There is a term for that, inflation. You have singled out the price of petrol, which is generally irrelevant when talking about governments, due to the control OPEC has over oil prices. Smoking on the other hand.

Debt is not good. It is bad, interest is attached and it always costs more to pay back than if the money was available to begin with. Having a surplus that is earning interest and paying for services outright is good. The money the government has at all levels is supplied by taxes (or variants of tax called by another name). More debt results in requiring more money from taxes. Revenue from taxes comes from businesses, that employ people, and people during the course of working or spending the money they have earnt. More debt can only mean that one way or another people are going to have to supply the government with more money.

I don’t need anyone to point out that this is a Federal election and I am speaking a lot about a State level. However any point I would have to make about the Federal government has already been made and I don’t like reiteration. But I have a method I use to vote and that means that unless I can get an intelligent and cogent argument as to why a government can be trusted at the State level, specifically in NSW where I live, they will never have a chance of receiving my vote at the Federal level. Failing that argument, I will instead sum up the policies of all the other parties, barring the Green party because of the preference deal and my obvious cultivated current lack of faith in the Labor party, and cast my vote that way.

At the moment I feel betrayed by both my current State and Federal government. The sentiment I have right now is that Liberal supporters in this state don’t need a slogan to follow, they could sum it all up with the words “Don’t blame me, I voted Liberal”.

I am open to vote for a party that addresses the concerns I have, but the small parties and independents never seem to have enough political clout to implement and address the policies they believe in anyway.

BobM says:

03:19pm | 18/07/10

Women don’t know what they want. They think it’s red hair and ‘moving forward’. Expect to be dissapointed. Is Gillard transparent, communicating and listening? Ask Kevin.

fehowarth says:

06:02pm | 18/07/10

Remember that Mr Howard promised lower interest rates.  That did not happen.  We also had large surpluses at the time. Our interest rates are still lower than when Mr. Howard left office.

Shane From Melbourne says:

11:29pm | 18/07/10

So you won’t be voting then?

BobM says:

03:21pm | 18/07/10

Apparently 58% of the population are still pretty stupid (on a two party preferred basis, that is).

Gregg says:

10:24pm | 18/07/10

No Cartoon needed LJD, it’s been a reality everyday lifestyle show for near on three years that hopefully we’ll not get a rerun of.

Jason CR says:

09:39pm | 18/07/10

Forget the bookies in election races.  Labor had a bounce when Gillard knifed Rudd and large bets (including a $100K bet) were laid on the day she knifed him, which had the bookies running.
 
The voters have since had a look and I’m not sure they like what they see so far - and Labor’s 2PP hasn’t really moved.

I smell a protest vote in the wind, just like when Kennett faced the Victorian voters in 1999.  Bracks was $11 and Kennett $1.08 - the rest is history.