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The farmers’ revolution against climate bureaucrats

John Mikkelsen

by John Mikkelsen

02 Nov 05:40am

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Filed under: Climate, Energy, Farming, Global Warming, Rivers, Rural Australia

86 comments

What started as a ripple is now growing into a powerful protest wave sweeping across our great nation.

You reckon they're angry? Picture by John Mikkelsen width=

In the space of a week, it has been fed by a series of fiery meetings in outback Queensland and southern States, a symbolic funeral service in Perth and gatherings in Brisbane and Melbourne.

At first glance these might seem unrelated, but beneath the surface they are connected by a strong under current of people pushed to the limits. The Perth “funeral” on the steps of Parliament House involved the “death” of property rights, complete with wreath laying, a piper in full regalia and a cortege to Cottesloe Beach for symbolic burial.

This followed the release of WA farmer Maxwell Szulc, jailed for 90 days after clearing 40 hectares for fire breaks on his own property.

Mr Szulc said his stint in jail had strengthened his resolve to fight for landowners’ rights.

The cattle and grain producer said fellow inmates were shocked to discover he had been sent to prison for contempt of court over clearing his own land – a first in WA.

Former ACT farmer Peter Spencer who drew international attention to property rights with his 52-day Tower of Hope hunger strike last year, also attended.

Emotional eulogies were delivered by Matt and Janet Thompson, under siege from receivers attempting to evict them and their four young children from their feedlot property after a long- running dispute with the Department of Environment and Conservation. 

This resulted in rapid foreclosure by the same bank which just reported a profit of $4.2billion, a rise of 63 percent, coinciding with calls by Treasury spokesman Joe Hockey for greater controls on the banking sector.

Mrs Thompson said the DEC had evolved to the stage where it was “hindering the very economic activities that support its own existence.”

“When non-producers have the power to tell producers what they can and cannot do, without that power being voted on by the people of our democracy…. society is setting itself up for failure”.

Meanwhile thousands of kilometres to the east, hundreds of angry farmers and townspeople gathered at St George and Goondiwindi as part of a series of meetings convened by the Murray Darling Basin Authority throughout the river system to discuss proposed water by-backs.

With armed guards and police in attendance, the locals voiced concerns that the plan would cost thousands of jobs, drive food production off-shore and sound the death-knell to rural communities.

The common call was to stand united against the plan, with one plea from a 12 year old boy who spoke from his heart about fishing, swimming in his “healthy river” and how he wanted to continue his family’s farming tradition, now under threat.

A local boy addresses the Goondiwindi meeting of farmers

Rural campaigner Cate Stuart whose family was forced off their NSW beef property several years ago after a dispute with environmental bureaucrats, said rural industries were “facing a mass wipeout.”

“Every single thing we do to try and survive…to diversify and drought proof ourselves, these pompous sons of guns (and daughters too) come in and over- regulate us to extinction”.

“In this instance, they have got it very wrong. Let’s unite the industries and give government the shock of their political lives,” she urged.

Back in the big smoke, another gathering was held in Brisbane’s King George Square to mark “Climate Fools Day” as part of an international protest originating in the UK.

Organisers called for an end to “Wasting resources on windmills, solar toys, silly subsidies and climate bureaucracy, with a return to preparing for real natural cycles of floods and droughts, cyclones and earthquakes.

“Despite discredited projections of dangerous global warming, the globe itself has continued its normal cycles such as El Nino, La Nina, the Pacific Oscillations, the powerful solar cycles and the massive ebb and flow of oceans and atmosphere…”

And the wave rolls on.

Most commented

430Australia, you have nothing to fear but fear itself
390There's no one Thomson won't burn to save his skin
335Animal experiments won't cure me from cancer
313Thomson didn't answer the question everyone is asking
265Who murdered the Arts degree?
246A big day for Thomson, who thus far is guilty of nothing...
231Craig Thomson speaks. Meanwhile, in Australia...
231South Australia. It's the middle bottom bit.

86 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • CJ Morgan says:

      05:34am | 02/11/10

      I live in a country town, and much that I feel for those farmers whose practices have been shown to be ecologically unsustainable, ultimately no activity that contributes to the appalling degradation of our fragile environment can be allowed to continue.  If agriculture (or another commercial activity) cannot be done without wrecking the environment that sustains us all, then it will fail in the longer term anyway.

      It’s better to act now to salvage our natural heritage, rather than waiting until we’ve totally stuffed the environment - regardless of whether or not a vocal minority accept the reality of AGW.

      Reply

    • Louis says:

      07:41am | 02/11/10

      A town slicker ey. That’s 1 ALP vote. Can’t even begin to compare to the producers.

      AGW is not accepted. Wake up. It got cut down by city people too. The policy was dumped. So should the lunacy.

      Farmers have a tough job. They don’t need idiots from towns and cities telling them how it is and how to do their job which is there life. They are not out to ruin their livelihoods. However, it appears you are. A farmer will be moved off his land if he doesn’t treat it well because his land will not produce the rewards that a farmer requires.

      Farmers are getting serious. Climate sceptics party was formed out of this sort of frustration.

      It’s a shame the one of their “own” so to speak is a hater.

    • mags says:

      07:50am | 02/11/10

      You sound very young CJ. If you think farmers degrade the very source of their livelihood just because they can, you are really not thinking clearly. Our farmers are the most efficient in the world and are never given enough credit for it.

      As for those who do not believe the AGW rhetoric, they are fast becoming the majority these days. Do a bit more research before you comment on such issues. I know it’s fashionable to follow the green path to oblivion but hopefully wiser heads will prevail.

    • CJ Morgan says:

      09:09am | 02/11/10

      Louis,

      I don’t vote for the ALP and I own a business that is largely dependent on agriculture, but even I can see that things can’t go on the way they are.  Also, your denial of the reality of AGW doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.

      mags,

      I’m the wrong side of 50, and I’ve done plenty of research into AGW, I can assure you.  While the denialists have managed to postpone any meaningful action for now, it won’t be long before you’re proven wrong.  At least I can look my grandjids in the eye and say I tried to do something about it.

    • Steely Dan says:

      09:18am | 02/11/10

      @ Louis

      “AGW is not accepted.”
      Not by Professor Louis.  Sorry, I’m sticking with the experts on this one.

    • jeffb says:

      12:24pm | 02/11/10

      “As for those who do not believe the AGW rhetoric, they are fast becoming the majority these days.”

      Maybe at Rooty Hill RSL but not in the real world… seriously, at this point there is no credible anti-AGW advocates left standing, try naming one.

      On another note, I always find it amazing that some farmers ignore sustainable use of their land in favour of old world european farming practices that are completely unsuitable for this continent.

      They make the good farmers look bad and its a shame. Sustainability often equates to increased productivity and a certain future.

    • Bill Koutalianos says:

      12:41am | 03/11/10

      CJ it’s hard to believe you own a business and live in a country town. Is your town serviced by roads and other infrastructure? Do you consider these human embelishments to be scars on the environment? Do you feel humans exploit the earth’s resources to build structures in which to live and conduct their businesses? Do you deplore fossil fueled transportation bringing supplies in to town? Can you suggest any alternatives to fossil fueled transport in the immediate future? If by chance, degradation occurs on a farm, isn’t there a self motivating incentive for farmers to take remedial action and restore their farm to back to health and back to being productive? I concede there are instances where we are “wrecking the environment”, take those toxic waste hazard energy efficient bulbs going into waste dumps, for example. These instances need to be identified and addressed. The real danger is that “wrecking the environment” has now become the catch all phrase of a vocal minority who want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, i.e. wreck our economy, modern society and our civilisation.
      Alarmist science incorrectly states that man’s CO2 emissions are causing global warming, but your message is even more confused with an emphasis on agricultural activities being linked to causing climate change, when we all know climate change has occurred since the beginning of time.
      Given you have ties with a farming community, I’m surprised you are you not aware or do not appreciate the improved crop yields from higher levels of atmospheric CO2? Perhaps you place your faith in politicians who incorrectly refer to CO2 as a pollutant. Perhaps you have not considered why a politician would do such a thing or perhaps you appreciate a few fibs if it fulfills an ideological agenda.
      Were you aware that global temperatures have been relatively stable for the last decade? That’s a short time frame, I know, but so was the 1975 to 1998 warming period. Did you know there was a full 35 year cooling trend between 1940 to 1975?  I’m always amazed at how alarmists have never come across such simple statistics. Have you heard of the Medieval warming period which coincided with the Vikings settling Greenland and grape growing in Northern England or the Little Ice age when the Vikings left Greenland and when the River Thames would freeze over in winte? Does any of this suggest to you that climate change may in fact be a natural occurance and that there is nothing unusual or alarming about late 20th century warming, apart from a few scandals related to the accuracy, adjustments, misplacement and the manipulation of some temperature data sets. Whatever climate change takes place next, it will not be altered by any carbon tax, but a carbon tax will damage our economy and weak economy cannot look after its environment.

    • Colin J Ely says:

      07:27am | 03/11/10

      Morgan
      Our farming community has worked wonders over the last ten years of drought, such things as drip tape irrigation. Reminds me of the hoary old chestnut, ‘We the unwilling, led by the unkowing, have been doing so much for so long with so little, we can now do everything with practically nothing’
      What have you and your green movement done to improve the use of environmental flows? Are we getting more ‘bang for our buck’ from environmental outcomes?

    • Another Ian says:

      09:50am | 03/11/10

      Re Steely Dan says:09:18am | 02/11/10

      Experts of which flavour - not forgetting the

      Ex -“out of”, spurt - “drip under pressure” kind

    • 4 Freedom says:

      09:51am | 15/11/10

      Are you for real?  The environment was never a big issue until certain green lobbyists started to use this as a tool to destroy Australia.  Farmers have produced food that has kept the people of Australia well fed for many years.  Farmers have fought against all pests and weather conditions and have gone without many things that people who now call themselves environmentalists enjoy.  Most of the environmentalists have gone through Universities and have been subjected to mind control and I cannot understand how such people can truly not see what is happening in our country and other countries as well.  We are all being controlled and manipulated by an elite group who are out to control the world.  There is a war going on and the soldiers are trained environmentalists who are nothing short of brainless in my opinion.
      If you have never lived on a working property or driven a large truck or participated in any activity other than office work, then you are not really in a position to judge.

    • Thumbnail says:

      07:20am | 02/11/10

      Good fences make good neighbours, so I say.  And these beaurocrat robbers need to be reminded that they are paid with the profits of property and business that depend on basic property rights to sustain those profits.  Hop my fence without my permission and I will use just enough force to put you back on your side of the fence.

      Reply

    • mags says:

      07:45am | 02/11/10

      The problem lies in the fact that governments can make regulation without having to test the issue in the Parliament. Much of the legislation has these iniquitous little loopholes that they use to keep us in line. Councils do it too.

      It’s about time all the city dwellers realise that if they don’t stand with farmers our country will deteriorate smartly.  All the fresh, healthy produce will disappear and we will be importing food from countries that exert no controls over it production, as is done here.

      Reply

    • jeffb says:

      12:32pm | 02/11/10

      mags,

      You could also argue that due to unsustainable farming practices our country will literally deteriorate into a salt encrusted wasteland where nothing at all can grow.

      Its a slightly ridiculous thing to say but so is your comment.

      I’ll gladly stand with the farmers who have taken the hard yards to come up with sustainable farming methods, the farmers who are working hard to increase their water efficiency, the true Australian farmers.

      The rest using old world farming practices, trying to grow crops that this continent cant sustain are nothing but dinosaurs awaiting the inevitable.

    • The quiet Farmer says:

      08:13am | 02/11/10

      As my family celebrates 50 yrs of owning and stewarding 1700ha of land in QLD I’ve been reflecting on the degeneration of linkages between those who live and work on the land and those who live off the land. Currently only a small percentage of our population has direct filial ties to the land. This is reflected in their attitudes which are far removed from reality. The idea of all farmers being environmental vandals is a urban myth, the Landcare movement was a true grassroots farmer driven organisation, castrated when big govternment worked out that people were actually using the money to fix problems rather than just talk about it.
      The myth that man has had a significant part in the changing climate is a joke to people who have learnt to live with a changing climate over generations and who have not lost their generational memory.
      The degradation of the care for seniors in our bush towns where community funded aged care has been forced to be signed over to corporate care providers who care more for the bottom line than the welfare of residents is a disgrace.
      The issue that farmers have been guilty of is selling their industry short. Agriculture is a fantastic place to work and ticks so many environmental boxes regardless of your climate viewpoint.

      Reply

    • Janette says:

      07:48am | 03/11/10

      Just a question?
      Who do you vote for if the conservatives continue to shut down all government agencies and services, aged care included, of the “lefty” ALP and Greens who are trying to destroy the agricultural industry.
      Seems to me these days everyone is the enemy.

    • Ray Jamieson says:

      02:46pm | 06/11/10

      Got to agree with The QUiet Farmer!  There are so few left with their hands on the soil, true stewards of the land.  Farmers are generally the best conservationists, as they are there, right in the front line, and their management of the soil and agriculture is the key to our survival as a nation that can feed and support itself!  It was infrastructure to take farm produce to the ports that opened up the inland and enabled everything else, including mining, to occur!
      The current MDB Plan is a crock, a power grab by concrete jungle greens to remove farmers and everyone else so that they alone wield the power.  Well now there is an alternaitive plan - http://www.politicalguts.com/id13.html will take you to what we really CAN do to make our Australian inland both profitable and ecologically sound!

    • Cactus says:

      08:18am | 02/11/10

      Let’s not entangle AGW with the property rights issue or the future of the Murray-Darling Basin. On the MDB, the amount of water flowing down that system has varied enormously over the millenia. In wetter times, there used to be fresh water lakes (the Wilandra Lakes) that are no more (for now). In drier times (just 20,000 years ago) the basin was a howling wasteland of dry steppe and sand dunes. The climate changed without human assistance, and will continue do so in the future, AGW or not. So how much water can we take from the MDB for agriculture? No one knows including - on what has been produced so for - the MDBA. They SHOULD have gone to the producers with suggestions for how things might be better managed or changed, not just with a list of what people would have to give up. “Engagement” is not simply telling people what they will do. Which brings us to property rights. Whether it is vegetation or water, we are reaching the stage where Governments are declaring that they “own” whatever grow or falls on a landholder’s property. There probably are positions which could be negotiated to give the best individual and community outcomes in an increasingly crowded world (solve that problem - that’s the big one). We need engagement between those affected and those with an interest, not just dictatorial interest groups using public sector agencies (and Government) as a tool to gain their limited objectives.
      Engagement is a key pillar of democracy. If we don’t shore that pillar up we risk the system collapsing into violence.

      Reply

    • Greg Blackmore says:

      08:22am | 02/11/10

      I think that farmers and regional communities accept the reality that there is climate change and a warming trend that has been happening long before coal fired powers stations and motor cars. They are also reasonable enough to realise that some changes have to be made to assist the Murray, however there has to be an approach that also takes into consideration human impact as well as the environment, of which we are part. A broader consideration may include water efficiencies as well as some water buy back from willing sellers. And what of Australia’s ability to feed itself? Of the 90% of our food produced in Australia some 47% comes from the Murray Darling Basin. Do we need to move all our food production offshore along with associated increased bio security risks and even human health risks. Just last week we have now become nett importers of food. That is we import more than we export. It appears that farmers are the soft target for environmentalists and the comment was made in previous article that “they think they can just take whatever water they want’” This is not true as all irrigation supplies are licences and have a specific allocation. And what also of the metropolitan water supplies for Melbourne and Adelaide that are partly drawn from the Murray? Neither of these cities are in the Murray Darling Basin and the water has to be pumped uphill first to get there. Should the urban populations in these cities as well as the farmers feel some pain and these pipelines be cut off, or as in the basin itself , be reduced by up to 60%.
      Humans are part of the environment, not some alien being that has dropped in, a fact that is overlooked by many. Compromises have to be made to house and feed us and an excellent example of this is the tonnes of concrete we have poured over the environment in the cities to house people. Should we therefore return Tank Stream in Sydney Cove to it’s former pristine glory?

      Reply

    • Laurie Dagg says:

      08:51pm | 02/11/10

      Ian Mott,  well said and to the point, how very true.

    • persephone says:

      08:25am | 02/11/10

      Strange how the events that don’t get up don’t get mentioned - ‘The Border Mail’ was predicting that nearly a thousand farmers were going to march down the main street to the Murray Darling consultation meeting there.

      In the end, about 500 turned up. If there was a march, it wasn’t reported.

      And this in an area where cuts to entitlements are mooted as being up to 70%.

      As for land clearing, in Victoria similar legislation has existed for over twenty years (to my certain knowledge). No one seems to be shutting up shop here because of them.

      How’d it go for Peter Spencer, btw? Funny how that unstoppable movement inspired by his protest seems to have….stopped.

      If the little boy you refer to wants to keep fishing and swimming in a clean river, I assume he’s supporting the reforms all the way, because that’s what they’re aimed at doing.

      Look, there is no denying that rural areas have had it tough during the drought, as have the small businesses in the towns that rely on them.

      Despite this, we still exported over 60% of our produce and farm exports boomed.

      As with all industries, the ones who whinge loudest are the failures. The successes just get on with doing what they’re doing.

      Change is always scaring, and threatening - particularly so if you lack the skills to cope with it.

      I would argue that the farming sector’s biggest problem is lack of education (they’re one of the lowest educated sectors we have).

      Education teaches you how to think your way through challenges, rather than merely reacting on emotion.

      Reply

    • Greg Blackmore says:

      09:02am | 02/11/10

      Farming practices have changed substantially to adopt more efficient use of water and to conserve soil and it’s water holding capabilities. Stubble retention farming and controlled traffic farming. As to whether farmers are not as well educated as their city cousins is debatable and could be evidenced by the lack of understanding and knowledge of rural issues by some urban residents who no longer have relations in the bush. To help with their understanding of the process, or lack of it, we could suggest that all city residents give up one room of their home to house a refugee. Not much different to what is being proposed for farmers by taking away part of their enterprise. Remember it is not just the water and the loss of production, but also the loss of value of the capital infrastructure that has been bought and paid for, and will no longer be utilised, and the subsequent loss of value of the farm. There is a concept that if private benefit is converted to public or community benefit then the community should pay for it. This concept has never been adopted by governments when dealing with farmers as was evidenced by the vegetation management legislations. Of course Victoria would have suffered least from these, whereas as other states with regrowth vegetation were more greatly affected. I am not sure that this is education or just a lack of knowledge on the part of for city people who are happy to support an emotive environmental cause without a though for the human impact. Maybe it doesn’t affect them personally.

    • Brian B says:

      09:12am | 02/11/10

      “I would argue that the farming sector’s biggest problem is lack of education…......”

      Ah, the wisdom of Persephone is again demonstrated by a blanket statement damning a whole segment of the population.

      Modern farming is little different to most other industries with managers, operators and technicians holding tertiary or vocational qualifications in agricultural sciences, horticulture and related technology.

      Don’t let the jeans and cowboy hats fool you Pers!

    • John L. says:

      09:32am | 02/11/10

      Farmers need to be able to “farm” unhindered by economy-wrecking laws by so-called “green” bureaucratic drongos. Being “green” was once just tree hugging and cuddling koalas and everyone was happy. Now it’s transformed into a fanatical regime of hypocritical eco-terrorists who want farmers to sacrifice what they have been doing for generations while the “green pretenders” run around cities in their wank-tanks (4WDs) and huge homes with AC and plasma TVs creating their own huge carbon footprint. Back off on the farmers.

    • Ian Mott says:

      09:39am | 02/11/10

      Amazing how you can manage to wrap up so much ignorance while talking about education, Persephone. The test of cognitive function is in the capacity to deal with variables. Idiots can deal with only 2 while genious can deal with 5 or more. Cabinet briefing papers are limited to 3 dot points while green media statements rarely cover more than 2 variables that get extrapolated to extremes. I have also seen PhD theses that struggle with 4 variables.

      Farmers, in contrast, often deal with more than 5 variables in a single crop cycle and it is not unusual for an experienced private forest owner to combine 3 or 4 objectives, each with equivalent variables, in a single harvest operation. And some of the best have only year 9 education.  They face fire, flood, drought, disease, pests, supply shortages and gluts, exchange and interest rate variables on a routine basis. And almost all of them list urban ignorance, and its constant companion, appaling arrogance, as the major threat to their viability.  The only reason farmers appear to be uneducated is because we don’t hand out bits of paper for everything we know. We let our farms do the talking and only other farmers can read the transcript. There are few problems in rural Australia that rural Australians don’t already know how to fix. But as long as we have garbage-in-garbage-out urban dominated governance then the imaginary problems will get all the attention while the real ones get ignored.

    • Kordez says:

      09:54am | 02/11/10

      @Ian Mott, Well said mate.

    • MarK says:

      11:18am | 02/11/10

      “I would argue that the farming sector’s biggest problem is lack of education (they’re one of the lowest educated sectors we have). “

      Prove this statement.

      “Education teaches you how to think your way through challenges, rather than merely reacting on emotion. “

      Prove this statement.

      “In the end, about 500 turned up. If there was a march, it wasn’t reported.”

      Link please - for all the reports and cuts mooted regarding this

      “Despite this, we still exported over 60% of our produce and farm exports boomed.”

      Link and proof

    • MarK says:

      12:56pm | 02/11/10

      Still waiting pers.

      Clocks ticking.

      Even for you denigrating farmers is a low act. Awaiting with bated breath to see where you got all the info from…..hope it just isn’t the “vibe” you feel. Or a guy told you - like all those nurses that were being trained or the health system being fixed.

      Same old same old

    • Carl Palmer says:

      02:37pm | 02/11/10

      “I would argue that the farming sector’s biggest problem is lack of education (they’re one of the lowest educated sectors we have).”

      Hmm, that may or may not be the case, but one thing is for sure, they certainly have far more commence sense and that’s something you can’t teach.

    • Cactus says:

      06:56pm | 02/11/10

      Crikey ... this is a mess of contradictions.

      You say: “The Border Mail’ was predicting that nearly a thousand farmers were going to march down the main street to the Murray Darling consultation meeting there. In the end, about 500 turned up…. And this in an area where cuts to entitlements are mooted as being up to 70%.”

      But as you observe: “The successes just get on with doing what they’re doing.” Maybe that explains the rest. That does not mean their views are not represented or that they don’t make submissions. We will be hearing from the “successes” and you may be sure their arguments will be soundly based.

      You say: “If the little boy ... wants to keep fishing and swimming in a clean river, I assume he’s supporting the reforms all the way.”  Why? He already has a clean river. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. (Good old country common sense.)

      You ask: “How’d it go for Peter Spencer, btw?”  I believe he got the right to take his matter to the High Court. A good outcome.

      I will refrain from responding to your dig about lack of education (I presume you mean formal qualifications). Some of the smartest people I know (or know of) have few or no formal qualifications.

      But there is one statement that I can’t let pass:  “Change is always scaring, and threatening - particularly so if you lack the skills to cope with it.”

      Look in the mirror, Persephone. Look in the mirror.

    • Liz says:

      07:13pm | 02/11/10

      persephone it would be nice if you would wear a big sign with your views on it so I would know who I was not going to waste my hard grown produce on.  Have fun trying to feed yourself after you have helped destroy some more primary industrys.

    • Rob Moore says:

      07:16pm | 02/11/10

      “Phoney”-
                  Unwashed, uneducated are we! Don’t let my wife hear you say that- had 14 years of hell teaching our three correspondence at home. Very limited help from a lot of well paid teachers-0p3 and an 0p5.

      Come to think of it I can vaguely remember starting Engineering @ Qld uni many years ago.

      Peter Spencer- sorry to disappoint you but…......much more to come soon!

    • acotrel says:

      01:07am | 03/11/10

      ‘I would argue that the farming sector’s biggest problem is lack of education (they’re one of the lowest educated sectors we have).

      Education teaches you how to think your way through challenges, rather than merely reacting on emotion. ‘

      OUCH! - That little bit of home truth won’t go down too well!  Our local TAFE only teaches project management as part of an information technology course.  I would have thought it was basic skill needed by all farmers?

    • Another Ian says:

      09:55am | 03/11/10

      This doesn’t look too good if true!
      “Andrew, NIA (National Inflation Association) have just released a movie called ‘End of Liberty’ which will not only cause plenty of controversy, it will also educate many people to what rules and laws the US Government is enforcing upon it residents.
      Senator Richard Durbin has just had this bill passed the ‘S:510, the Food Safety Modernization Act’, may be the most dangerous bill in the history of the US. 
      The [S:510] preclude the public’s right to grow, own, trade, transport, share, feed and eat each and every food that nature makes.
      It will become the most offensive authority against the cultivation, trade and consumption of food and agricultural products of one’s choice. It will be unconstitutional and contrary to natural law or, if you like, the will of God, you just hope we never see anything like this here in Australia.

      Rick of Sydney (Reply)
      Wed 03 Nov 10 (05:25am)
      ”
      From http://blogs.news.com.au/couriermail/andrewbolt/index.php/couriermail/comments/tips_for_wednesday_november_3/#commentsmore

    • MalS says:

      09:36am | 04/11/10

      I would argue that persephone’s biggest problem is a total lack of education…
      Absolutely NO idea of the deeper issues ...just the superficial propoganda..
      Did the MDB go dry before white settlement..YES
      Did the MDB go dry before water harvesting and irrigation.. MANY times…Even if the lunatic greenies stopped ALL irrigation would the MDB still go dry during a similar drought?? Absolutely YES…
      What is the lunatic greenies most damning trait??
      Their intense and totally unreasonable hatred towards their fellow Mankind…

    • Hypocrisy says:

      08:28am | 02/11/10

      It is interesting that both Melbourne and Adelaide are not, nor ever have been a part (any part) of the Murray/Darling Basin.  By that I mean, in order to get water out of the Murray/Darling basin into these two Leach cities they have to pump the water Uphill initially, before it (the water) will gravitate (hydraulically) to the seaboard.  Have they (the MDBA) listed any cut-back’s to water to these two Leach cities in their grand plan ?? And, given that Melbourne is situated on the “Yarra” river and that Adelaide is situated on the river Torrens, how many river systems do these mutually exclusive citizens need to suck out of before they are centrally and environmentally appeased ??

      Reply

    • The Badger says:

      09:52am | 02/11/10

      I guess a dry riverbed would make a good place to go boot-scootin, but it wouldn’t be much use for crops.

      Education is the key to bringing these hayseeds into the 21st century. They only think of their own water needs and to hell with everyone else further downstream. It is appropriate that the government makes these decisions regarding the MDB for the benefit of all Australians.

      and the opposition can continue to oppose and the nationals can sit on their hands and keep them warm.

      Reply

    • Greg Blackmore says:

      11:15am | 02/11/10

      It is possible that many of these “hayseeds” have had a better education than you might imagine, having had to travel away from their locals towns to be able to access secondary schooling, mostly at the very cities you suggest are better educated, and probably also at schools where they have made sure the teachers can spell before employing them. No one has suggested that there should not be change for the benefit of the Murray, just that it should take on board human impacts and incorporate measures such as better efficiencies as well. Not just a claw back of water that was licenced by governments (not stolen by farmers). What of Melbourne’s and Adelaide’‘s water needs that come from the Murray? Do you suggest that to be clawed back as well - it is not proposed in the Plan is it - hardly fair that city cousins shouldn’t feel the pain as well to substantiate their views. It is not just the water needs of the farmers. It is about the health of the river and Australia’s food production. Maybe city folk don’t need to eat - at least not Australian food.

    • hide the decline says:

      11:31am | 02/11/10

      Yeah, right Badger that’s why I have a photograph of a dry Murray River with horses, buggies and people standing in the middle of the river bed.  Being a legend of your party’s ideology, I’m sure that you have the perfect education program in mind for us hayseeds.  You would be aware that your education program has been, and is still being practiced in some other countries.

    • 4 Freedom says:

      10:28am | 15/11/10

      How about more water storage solutions?
      Nah Nah the greenies would not like to upset the environment.
      Badger are you sure you are not over educated in theory and under educated in practicality.

    • NGS says:

      09:54am | 02/11/10

      To all you city folk out there, who’s main contact with the land is driving past it on your holiday, with your 4 wheel drives and v 8 engines, your ill disciplined and obese children, you access to instant food prepared far, far away, your over fertilised and over waterd lawns, your swimming pools and myriad other convienences situated in your suburbs, we farmers are TOO BUSY FEEDING YOU to go protesting and continually fight silly beaurocrats, so try going hungry for half a day and then appreciate the work we do for you.

      Reply

    • amicus curiae says:

      09:31pm | 02/11/10

      NGS, well stated!
      for all the city folk who have no idea at all of how hard every year is, for a Farmer. Maybe you could go and do some work in the real world.
      the one with drought,  or floods, every year a rise in the price of fertiliser seed and implements, and loan costs. then add rust ,locusts, hail, wind and rain at harvest. while fuel and all other costs rise. while city banksters and grains exchanges are manipulated by O/S interests to pay as little as possible.
      throw in a pile of new laws and certificates to do what you already know.
      our Farmers are being paid the same for present crops as they were 20+ years ago.
      how would YOU in the cities feel if your wages were regressed to that , with all the present price hikes still in place?
      You bitch you can’t have a lawn! ever had to carry water to dehydrated animals? had to buy water in for drinking? been unable to wash clothes at the drop of a hat? turned on the tap and had NO water?
      I wonder how you will react when the LIMA agreement that allows the Govt to TAX you on your roof areas worth of rainfall comes into play? and thats regardless of you using it or wasting it as stormwater runoff?
      as to the agw driving the dabate.
      ask WHY? the BoM managed to Vanish! 900mm of rainfall to support their scare campaign? the 2008 figures have been “adjusted” to show lower rainfalls. rather odd I think?
      see it yourselves at http://www.wattsupwiththat.com  serch Bom Rainfall!
      If every city person here had a tank ONLY for water, and had to live all summer with that ONLY. I wonder how many would realise how careful Farmers already are! try turning OFF your meters and see how fun life is.

    • Ron Bahnisch says:

      10:48am | 02/11/10

      A brilliant summary, John Mikkelsen. From the Wenlock River in Cape York, where as a sop to green movement, a billion dollar bauxite mine which would have employed 1700 mainly indigenous workers has been thwarted, right around the country to Perth, landowners are enraged at their resources being locked up or expropriated for no good reason but “feel good politics”.

      I like your scholarly dissertation on the handling of variables, Ian Mott. It is best encapsulated by plain old common sense: the innate ability some people have in the face of almost infinite variables to make correct decisions. I believe it is the most important prerequisite to survival on the land but not in the nanny state.

      Reply

    • Elias says:

      11:05am | 02/11/10

      As a people we Australians are nice, peaceful, easygoing and politically inactive. As a result we have been exploited to the max by a corrupt political class, which is largely made up of inner-urban, ivory tower liberals and pugnacious environmentalist seeking to shove their ideology down everyones throat. The only way to stop this madness is mass strikes and protests like what has recently occured in France. Unlike the French government, our cowardly politicians are not used to people standing up for their rights and such acts of resistance will hopefully let them see reason or, even better, make the current corrupt government resign!

      Reply

    • Colin J Ely says:

      12:33pm | 02/11/10

      Being a ‘city slicker’ I went to the MDBA meeting in Melbourne last week. It was a full house at the Sofitel. Many there had come from the far flung reaches of Victoria and even NSW. BTW for those ‘greenies’ driving around in their ‘Toorak Tractors, I have just finished reading ‘The Untrained Environmentalist’ by John Fenton, which tells how he transformed a dry dustbowl in the western district into a green oasis over the 50 years he farmed there. John was educated at Hamilton College, Geelong College and the Longeronong Agricultural College, not some ‘alternative’ school where you just have to turn up to pass! wink

      Reply

    • RedRose says:

      12:44pm | 02/11/10

      It is truly amazing that those who believe themselves “well educated” are so often the quickest to lay claim that other are not!  What “one eyed hypocrisy”! Really - it beggars belief that anyone living in a country town could possibly believe the hyperbole from the Greens and Govt. Wake up CJ AND Pers., and NGS - give me a break - not all ‘city folk’ are taken in by the garbage either.

      If the media coverage of what was really happening in the country was able to be shown in the cities - IMHO there would be a huge change of opinion in the belief that the Green’s, and those bogus scientists who have been shown to have falsified data, have the answers to our problems. (They don’t)

      What do you really expect when the only news most city people see is that which has been washed through the spin doctors of the Govt.,Green interference and the brainwashed Goreistas? And to make matters worse they are hiding in plain sight .

      Take a good long, hard look at what is happening in Australia. We are producers,  produce our own livestock, crops, raw materials and can for countless industries, yet what are ‘we’ or more correctly, the landholders allowed to do? If they are lucky they may be allowed to sell at a fraction of it’s true worth overseas…. whilst we, the public, thanks to govt. interference (oh is that progress?) have to buy our food, clothing, etc from third world countries. Most of it poisoned by chemicals WE banned decades ago.

      Who are we helping? Not ourselves, our health, our childrens health and welfare, nor our country’s welfare or our future.  Is this progress - that as a nation ‘we’ must appear to be able to share our good, healthy produce to those less able to do so themselves?..... Wait a moment - we’re buying their third rate poisoned produce.  Our demise = their rise to prominence?

      Australian land is being ‘locked up’ by Green inspired and manipulated laws, it’s time to wake up, speak up and STAND YOUR GROUND!  Let’s get back to SUPPORT YOU LOCAL INDUSTRY!

      Reply

    • Geoff Brown says:

      01:24pm | 02/11/10

      “Australian land is being ‘locked up’ by Green inspired and manipulated laws, it’s time to wake up, speak up and STAND YOUR GROUND! ”

      The Greens are not the nice tree-huggers that they pretend to be. The Greens would hand over Australian Sovereignty to a World Government. Anytime they can, they are chipping away at our freedom, a little here, a little there.

      Cattle are carbon (dioxide) neutral but they say become vegetarian. Then they want to take water away from the land that is producing their vegetables and fruit.

      And then there is the madness of wanting a tax on essential-to-life carbon dioxide. A tax based on flawed IPCC reports and a flawed unproven hypothesis. A tax that will send the lasts factories off-shore.

      Let’s get behind our agricultural industriy. SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL INDUSTRY

    • 'bro al says:

      12:59pm | 02/11/10

      I am a Melbourne inner city ‘slicker’ who finds the inane comments of CJ Morgan, Persephone and The Badger reprehensible. They remind me of why I essentially hate blogs, providing the opportunity as they do for such bumptious stirrers to strut their stuff.

      To call farmers ‘hayseeds’ and otherwise demean their education / intelligence / knowhow and love and care for our environment is just the cheapest of shots. Instead of preening yourselves before your Evil Queen’s Magic Mirrors which one presumes gives you some gratifying feedback as to your intelligence and wit, get out there into the bush. Soak it up. Do some proper research into the advances that have been made, and continue to be made in farming. And this notwithstanding the impact of climate which indeed changes under the influence of many variables (of which anthropogenic CO2 is inconsequential), and the ‘red tape’ war imposed by bureaucrats who who have forgotten just what their proper role should be.  Arrrghhh!!

      Reply

    • CJ Morgan says:

      02:16pm | 02/11/10

      Now, now ‘bro al - there’s no need to be impolite or disingenuous.  In your prolific posts to the “Just Grounds” blog you do a fair amount of inane preening in denial of the reality of AGW.  Strange that you’re coy about your family connection with the author at this blog.

      I *am* “in the bush”, and I spend a fair bit of my spare time engaged in voluntary work to remediate the damage done by farmers and miners to the upper headwaters of the Darling system.  What do you do for the environment beyond ranting endlessly online about the awful greenies?

    • bro' al says:

      03:27pm | 02/11/10

      The opinionated CJ Morgan says “I *am* “in the bush”, and I spend a fair bit of my spare time engaged in voluntary work to remediate the damage done by farmers and miners to the upper headwaters of the Darling system…...”

      Well, WOWEE!! Do you carry a doggy bag on your walks around town?  I believe you meant ‘remedy’ above, but then, ‘remediate’, as a de-construction from ‘remediation’ could well reflect your personal needs in terms of understanding something about climate science. Oh, and farming too.
      But do enjoy your constructive good deeds. Would be nice if you could include your farmer neighbours.

    • Julene Haack says:

      05:21pm | 02/11/10

      Hi Al and CJ,
      I hope you can avoid further personal comments grin

      One of the points John Mikkelsen is trying to make is:  Who is better placed to look after the land - the bureaucrat sitting in an office in Government Street, or the farmer who lives and breathes the land through every season?  (And I could put the folks who do weekend remediation work in the latter group, too.)

      Take, for example, Native Vegetation legislation.

      I don’t disagree that in the past land clearing has been excessive.  Up until around the mid 1900’s it was government-sanctioned.  In fact, a farmer settler who did not clear and make his land “productive” was seen as defaulting and could lose his holding. 

      Now the pendulum has swung the other way with almost blanket banning of land-clearing and this doesn’t necessarily improve environmental values, either. 

      It’s a bit like a doctor saying to a person with a corn on a toe, an ulcer on the shin and arthritis in the knee - “We’ll have to cut your leg off.”  The human body is a complex system – and so are natural ecosystems.  In some areas, for example, banning of clearing results in overgrowth of woody weeds, thereby killing off biodiversity.  Different areas have different needs.

      My point is that the pendulum has swung too far and needs to be brought back to the middle.  The folks to bring about that swing are NOT the public servants sitting in bureaucratic towers but rather the folks walking their own land.

      Cheers!

    • Colin J Ely says:

      03:36pm | 02/11/10

      Morgan
      It is very noble of you to volunteer your time to mother nature. What are you doing, Landcare? How did this damge to the upper Darling occur? Here in Victoria soldier settler blocks were allocated on the proviso that the new owners had to clear them within a certain time or they would lose them.
      When did the damage by miners occur. i always thought that nowdays miners had to remediate the site when mining had finished?
      How do you know that I am not the long lost love-child of the author? Play the data, not the man! wink Are you going to enlighten us all on here to your relationship with an English sea captain who tortured 100’s in Panama and sacked a church?

      Reply

    • Leon Ashby says:

      03:59pm | 02/11/10

      Whether its the loss of rights to run a property, the loss of water rights to grow a crop or having to pay for the right for cows and tractors to emit CO2 into the atmosphere, the Green ideology has got the city folk and the mainstream media believing there are crisis everywhere and some sort of control over land water and air is needed. This is all complete rubbish of course.
      We freedom thinkers do need to bring the full range of rights removing issues into a cohesive movement of revolt. In my view the movement needs to aim to change the political system, the beauracrat mentality and the attitudes of the heartland of Australia. Perhaps we are getting closer to that day. Should we get a carbon Tax, (to supposedly “cool the planet” - what a joke) then the movement could be ready to get ignited.

      Reply

    • kel graham says:

      04:11pm | 02/11/10

      With regards to the derogatory comments made by Persephone and The Badger I will say that the only thing I have struck that is more annoying than an arrogant is a Ignorant socialist arrogant . It would be very interesting to know how many of these people that wish to ram socialist ideals, remove our inalienable rights, redistribute our wealth, diminish our rights as parents, legislate to control every aspect of our lives etc. etc, and then invariably hide behind a pseudonym,  do ANYTHING constructive or productive for this country. In my experience if any , the number would be miniscule.
      It is also my experience In dealing with people over 32 years in business that the people that are commonly termed “conservatives”, the people that constitute the vast majority of the ‘silent majority’, just want to get on with life and let other people get on with theirs whereas the Geen/Labour Socialist extremists are hellbent on using fear, ridicule,lies and any other means at their disposal to force their warped ideals on the rest of society.
      Is climate change real? Of course it’s real, there has always been climate change and there always will be.
      Is climate change man made? You might ask yourself how much credibility can be give to the opinion of the “experts’ when those same experts are paid by the very people who stand gain, either by way of unimaginable wealth or by ever increasing control over the lives of almost everyone in the country.
      We have made many mistakes in this country, farming included, but i am afraid that is what humans do, they make mistakes [ accept of course for the radical green/ socialists who apparently are infallible] but to destroy the lives and livelyhoods of thousands good honest hardworking Australians and then portray them with ridicule as uneducated, selfish, second class and expendable is a very dangerous path to take and will only prove galvanise a sector of this country that have been pushed about as far as they are going to be pushed .

      Reply

    • Damian says:

      05:17pm | 02/11/10

      I’m not allowed to cut down trees on my property (I live in a city) so I believe farmers should be bound by the same rules

      Reply

    • hide the decline says:

      08:37pm | 02/11/10

      Is your property ‘Deeded’ for the purpose (Use) of agriculture and primary production ??

    • Ian Mott says:

      12:48am | 03/11/10

      So, Damian, once again it is urban one size fits all, is it?  You haven’t even managed to introduce a second variable. If you live in a city you will be lucky to have 5 trees, and only 2 of them native. I have about 12,000 trees, all regenerated onto a bare paddock that the previous owner was compelled to clear on pain of forfeiture of land title. And I am just a small holder. 

      Most of my 12000 trees are only half way to maturity but my land will only fit 2400 fully grown trees. I can leave them to kill each other off in ruthless competition, like having 80 kids in a classroom, or I can progressively cut some down so the rest can keep growing. And even the ones I do cut down will coppice and produce the next generation of trees to fund my grandchildren’s mid-life crises. My trees won’t reach maturity at the same time so they won’t be cut down at the same time. My wildlife prefer it that way too. My Koalas only eat fresh green leaves and they know they can find more of them (and with higher protein) in healthy early mature trees that are reaching out to fill gaps in the canopy that were left by the trees I cut down. Koalas don’t like closed canopy forests because the excess competition reduces the trees capacity to produce new leaves. They even release polyphenyls to protect their leaves and make them indigestible to every species in the leaf based food chain. And that is why the Koalas prefer my forest over the nearby national park where no trees are ever cut. They can smell an indigestible forest from 10km or more and avoid it at all times. But your stupid, simplistic, city rules on tree cutting will degrade their habitat, disrupt their food supply and drive the young away from home to become roadkill. And you are doing exactly the same to humans in the bush as well.  If a little knowledge is a dangerous thing then your ignorance is downright lethal.

    • JohnL says:

      11:33am | 04/11/10

      It’s easier to turn on the airco than clean a few leaves out of your gutter. Typical.

    • fedup says:

      05:55pm | 02/11/10

      Persephone
      If you are so well educated why have you got on here and attacked the farming community without the benefit of the scientific papers on which the MDBA has based its assessment. I think you will find a lot of contradictions which the Authority had a hard time coming to terms with but meantime you and your educated, urban green friends have already condemned the farmers when the evidence has not been released yet.
      The MDB is a variable system that has always gone from dry to flood. The ecosystem has evolved with these variables and it is extreme to say it will be wrecked it we don’t wreck the towns in the basin.
      I am stunned at how often the green movement actually gets the science wrong but we never hear about that. What about the “black water” that eventuated from some of these so-called environmental flows that resulted in fish kills.

      Reply

    • Shawn says:

      06:06pm | 02/11/10

      Country towns are lovely to visit, especially ones that have lots of converted shops offering light refreshments. There is a nice one just up from my uncles house actually.
      Have you ever noticed how the food sold in restaurants, and takeways is always really ordinary?
      Most people who live in country towns own too many cars. Some families own other things likes ride on lawn mowers.  When will a touch of sanity be reintroduced back into the debate?

      Reply

    • really says:

      08:44pm | 02/11/10

      How would you know how many cars are owned by country people ??Looks like you have cornered all the sanity !!!

    • Pro Freedom says:

      06:12pm | 02/11/10

      CJ Morgan, you have the audacity to suggest that you are good, and all farmers are bad.  I believe the discerning readers of The PUNCH will be able to see through your arrogant, misinformed and fundamentally collectivist comments. 

      You did get something right in your first comment, though, and I’d like to thank you for making such an excellent case for farmers:

      “If agriculture (or another commercial activity) cannot be done without wrecking the environment that sustains us all, then it will fail in the longer term anyway.”

      This is a true statement.  Because farmers rely upon our land and animals for our livelihood, we have every incentive to care for them to the best of our knowledge and ability.  We have done so increasingly efficiently, such that LIPA (Low Input Precision Agriculture) irrigation is close to 100% water use efficient now.  And while we are caring for our resources, we are producing from the environment that sustains us all…literally! 

      Because farmers are so good at what we do, you have the luxury of HAVING spare time!

      And, sorry, what does bro’ al’s relationship to John Mikkelsen have to do with the price of tea in china?

      Reply

    • Charles says:

      06:19pm | 02/11/10

      CJ Morgan’s posts on this subject lack the genuine touch that a real farmer would provide.  It sounds like something that a Lancare bureaucrat or similar would spout, given a confrontation with a real environment, as opposed to the theoretical one they might write reports on and be more familiar with.

      Farming has undergone a comprehensive technological change over the past 30 years or so, and the end product is vastly improved farming practises and productivity, which is associated with improved soil quality and extensive revegetation and reafforestation.

      CJ Morgan might like to look beyond his/her own bit of turf to actually see where the revolution seems to have passed them by, and left them stranded in a Rachel Carson/Paul Erlich era from a long bygone age

      Reply

    • Dixie says:

      06:40pm | 02/11/10

      I hope the community has the tolerance to view farmer demonstrations with good humour and open minds. Its supposed to be the “Australian way”.

      You see we feel a bit like a minority in our own land. But we have cousins:  the silent majority in cities who are busy working and /or raising good kids and grand-kids. Just getting on with business, too tired at the end of the day to denigrate fellow travelers or wonder where they are heading.

      All farmers ask is for those who feel they have had enough of the slick, unplanned rush into the uncharted waters of the future, join with them and voice your issues.

      If you see farm practices which you feel could be improved and you can suggest the necessary steps, stop, meet the farmer and give then your ideas. We are actually fairly open minded and even if we think you are out of your tree, will usually have a good laugh . Don’t please, take your superior knowledge of Land Management and hide it under a bush.

      Reply

    • Rob Moore says:

      06:50pm | 02/11/10

      This can be summed up with- Community Benefit = Community Pays or similarly- INTERFERENCE - COMPENSATION

      A few examples- Want to shut a feedlot down that has all the permissions granted -Then compensate in full for costs and damages. Ditto for the MDBA greenie grab. If they must then every individual should be able to do a before and after Audit-then be compensated in FULL.

      As the Federal Court will decide soon- if you want to steal property rights to make a living,as in native veg lock up to satisfy phony UN agreements- then pay in full the costs and damages.

      The list goes on- Councils and their LEP templates according to the UN agenda 21. Reef Recue Plans in Qld to buy green votes. Heritage listings…...anything!! Interference = Compensation.

      This is the only way this madness will stop-if the powers have to pay for their meddling as opposed to stealing by stealth!

      It is a case of Big Brother Public Service gone mad when I tell you it is a dead set fact that DERM here in QLD has a budget of $965.5 MILLION this year alone.

      All at a time when we are selling our Rail and any infrastructure that we have left. It’s true We’ve had a gutful!

      Reply

    • Janet H. Thompson says:

      08:58pm | 02/11/10

      Damien, you should join our cause, not your oppressors’ cause.  You should be able to do with your property—land, house, car, computer, phone, wallet—what you want, so long as it’s not illegal. 

      This is not about urban versus rural, Liberal versus Labor, left versus right, employee versus employer. 

      This is about centralised control versus individual freedom and responsibility.  Australia was built on the latter.  North Korea has the former.  If you want the former, how ‘bout a plane flight rather than a plain fight?

      Reply

    • Mikko says:

      08:59pm | 02/11/10

      Have any of you noticed that suddenly Joe Hockey is not seen as the buffoon Labor and the media made him out to be for daring to suggest that the banks should be subject to greater controls? Shock, horror “economic Hansonism” ... Cant have that. Well against the experts’ predictions, interest rates just went up another .25%  while most of the country was distracted by a horse race. And “Which Bank” has jumped the gun to double that on housing loans while the others are waiting in the wings to follow, after announcing their huge record profits, with Wayne Swan tut-tutting and waving his finger.
      The poor Greenies must find all this perplexing because Mr Hockey has found an ally in their boss, Bob Brown who can actually see some things need to change besides the climate (which will anyway).
      It’s a whole new paradigm, right? grin

      Reply

    • Elizebeth Flower says:

      09:32pm | 02/11/10

      Persephone said: “I would argue that the farming sector’s biggest problem is lack of education (they’re one of the lowest educated sectors we have).
      “Education teaches you how to think your way through challenges, rather than merely reacting on emotion.”

      I live on the land.  My son (fifth generation) who manages the property happens to have an appropriate degree; but more importantly, he possesses intelligence and commonsense – in common with most other farmers I know.  In fact, thinking their way through challenges is part of everyday life for the farmer. 

      In bygone times, farmers didn’t possess the knowledge they do today, but neither did urbanites.  Farmers, many of whom are highly educated, have advanced with the times, and most are very environmentally aware, but some of the urbanites, it would seem, have not advanced with them.

      Farmers who are not affected by urban heat islands (those ever-growing ‘concrete jungles’ which doubtlessly are responsible for a certain amount of AGW) know that global warming theory is a fallacy, a far cry from reality.  Climate has always changed, but the present AGW hysteria is a product of a green agenda, the end objective being that of global governance, which poses a very real threat to every aspect of life as we know it.

      Persephone, I would argue that one of the farming sector’s biggest problems is ignorance on the part of urbanites who are unwittingly helping to further the agendas which are slowly and insidiously destroying the livelihoods of so many in the rural sector.  And ultimately, when food security is a thing of the past in this country, urbanites will also share the pain.

      Reply

    • Dallas Beaufort says:

      10:02pm | 02/11/10

      Vote for me election promises which involve others private property is my concern, when these elected and then so called accountable, prescribe through policy to redistribute others hard earned asset, to benefit themselves politically.  And those same representatives, will be prosecuting their parties convictions and policies, whether they are right, wrong or just plain down right crazy or just public theft of the private enterprise. 
      My on going beef with these so called political greens is their policy for taking, stealing by stealth, private property, supported by the redistributive, must keep dumping down, when running out of ideas or real effort, where the labor party, to gain the numbers, in this instance, under the guise of saving the koalas in Queensland, for their, not so pure environmental planning policies. And all along, they knew particular private property could never sustain or ever be environmentally sustainable, but campaigned and forced the weak supplicants within state and local councils to comply with their desires. Deals to just stay relevant. And where green labor continues their dumping, trans locating, (but never on their mates property) these poor starving little buggers, and these little critters continue starving via malnutrition or simply get run over trying to find something nutritious to eat, to survive on and stay alive. And the state will be dumping another 30, probably some with babies on their backs as the small ones don’t count. 15 years ago csiro quality research was presented which very politely suggested that depending on the natural soil fertility and nutrient levels that these animals would not survive in certain areas, but these apostles of good intention deny and ignore the plain facts. Restricting development because there are trees there, so the koalas must be their too, and so their university core co conspirators continue milking the taxpayer to benefit, forever, where doing research on what is needed to produce policies based on fundamental facts is not on, as this line of enquiry would highlight the waste of previous funding avenues and highlight corruption of the science if ever memory played a part. Save the planet and encumber the private owner with unworkable solutions. The truth gets buried under policies again. Now my family have done the right thing over 33 years, before the greens came along to improve their lot to deliver what is desired, balance. Now this is not a solicitation, or scream for pro bono support, I am just detailing my families war with these corrupt in a statement of facts and my determination not to give in to these miscreants who destroy others private property values for their own private shellfish benefits. Yes theirs, as theirs is not for the public good but only self-interest for the position and assuredly, the money, (and that’s on tape). And don’t ask me for a copy. Addendum: In 1993, a properly made application was made, which is ongoing through obfuscation, to deliver through a whole of government consultation process the whole set of desired outcomes, it is quiet simple, not a multi function polis extravaganza of spin but, a simple, sustainable mix of housing types including affordable and social which are not placed in isolation or clustered, a new development where good practical policy outcomes are yet to be delivered via an applicant who wants to do deliver what people really want.

      Reply

    • CJ Morgan says:

      10:07pm | 02/11/10

      Leaving aside all the personal snark and repressed angst for a moment, it’s pretty apparent that the AGW delusionists here have painted themselves into something of a corner, from which the only way out is the kind of puerile and aggressive twaddle that we read here.

      Unfortunately, that strategy works against the possibility of finding the common ground that is necessary if there’s going to be any amelioration of AGW.

      On the other hand, I’m heartened by the alliances that are being formed in SW Queensland and elsewhere betweeen farmers and environmental groups around the issue of Coal Seam Gas and other mining on farmland.  There are certainly many common interests between agriculturally and ecologically oriented imperatives, and I’d like to think that we’re able to resolve collectively our ideological differences in order to tackle realistically the climate-driven problems that will very probably befall us if the business-as-usual crowd continue to prevail - in both ideological and manifest terms.

      We need to get real about AGW.  I’m not all that optimistic that we will before its consequences are much more severe than they could be if we do.

      Bugger.

      Reply

    • Colin J Ely says:

      07:43am | 03/11/10

      Morgan
      When I am sitting in a freezing cold building tonight, central heating only for the patricians during the day, we borgeois guards at night get to huddle over our little heaters, perhaps you could send down some of that CAGW south from sunny Queensland to freezing cold Melbourne?

      BTW As a granfather of one, with another grandchild on the way, I don’t fear for the type of planet they will inherit, I fear if they will have jobs, electricity, or will inherit a ‘third world’ future?

    • Geoff Brown says:

      08:02am | 03/11/10

      “it’s pretty apparent that the AGW delusionists here have painted themselves into something of a corner”
      Well said, CJ. The AGW delusionists (IPCC and cromies) started with a mission to blame CO2 for runaway Global Warming. After more than 20 years they have admitted that they have failed in their mission but not before using hearsay, trickery, massaging of data to try to show they succeeded. 

      We need to expose the populace to the truth. Temperature rise preceded rise in atmospheric CO2. CO2 is innocent!

    • Julene Haack says:

      10:09am | 03/11/10

      Interesting comment from CJ Morgan who says:  “Leaving aside all the personal snark and repressed angst for a moment”.  And then almost immediately goes on to say, “the kind of puerile and aggressive twaddle that we read here.”

      It can’t be one rule for one and a different rule for everyone else.  Let’s be fair, eh?
      Julene

    • Mikko says:

      09:26am | 03/11/10

      From The Australian today “Farmers fear delay to Murray Darling rescue”
      http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/farmers-fear-delay-to-murray-darling-rescue-scheme/story-e6frg6nf-1225946925240
      Damned if they do, damned if they dont?  Or should that be “dammed”?  If some of the billions earmarked for investment in “clean energy” was diverted to dams in northern areas where massive amounts of water flow out to sea each year, and some of that was diverted to the Murray Darling system, there would be no need for drastic water buy backs.
      The Bradfield Scheme Mark 2 revisited would make a lot more sense.

      Reply

    • Dixie says:

      10:03am | 04/11/10

      Mikko,

      The correspondent who said “no credible anti-AGW advocates left standing, try naming one”.” would no doubt have problems reading of this genre as the red mist descended before their eye and blocked the one that worked!

    • Denise Scanlan says:

      04:33pm | 04/11/10

      Anyone who is being pulled along by this AGW rubbish, needs to get a life. We have bureaucrats telling the farmer what to do to maintain the environment when they have been doing that for years. If they didn’t they wouldn’t have a farm. These government nobodies have nothing else to do, than to sit there and think up another environmental project to destroy the livelihood of the man/woman on the land. Most of them have probably never been on a farm!

      No matter how much proof there is, the pro-warmers still get too much air-time where the anti-AGW’s get none. Why? Our argument is just as important, and can be proved, yet we are called ‘deniers’ and yet we don’t deny climate change at all. When will they wake up?

      Let the warming issue go, and prepare for what the climate always does and that is change. Start looking after the environment as we all should, forget what ‘carbon dioxide’ is supposed to do, and let us keep it…I desperately need it to keep living. So does every other living thing.

      We aren’t approaching the end of the world. It’s just another cycle.

      Reply

    • Cate Stuart says:

      09:34am | 05/11/10

      So the people are maintaining their rage in Forbes and Dubbo! Meanwhile ABC is conducting pre-recorded interviews so that those that are not convinced of AGW and are still questioning the validity of the data, are obviously making an impact due to the viciousness of how they were broadly “attacked” on the interview yesterday.
      Finally admitting that Tim Flannery is NOT a scientist! Wonders never cease - to that mean he has an OPINION the very thing that ABC guests want banned - people with opinions!
      All these “blog” sites would become redundant, media control from scientists ooh how would “The Punch” like that?
      Meanwhile, the farmers are being still locked out of meetings, or very limited seating for the consultative process for MDBP.
      The Green agenda is starting to be exposed - and the biggest loser’s will be Australian’s now.
      The only people who can stop this, is Australian’s putting pressure on ALL political parties to correct the BS that is driving us towards a nice little third world status, along with Big Brother watching quite blatantly now, as he really has nothing to fear….or does he?

      Reply

    • John C Fairfax says:

      07:27pm | 05/11/10

      AGW is a general term encompassing the whole globe at the same time, but what about just a few parts of the world warming at different times and resulting in more severe weather.  Are so called climate skeptics skeptical about everything or is possible for them to concede human influence somewhere may be even slightly changing the weather, say in the Gulf of Mexico or in the South China Sea?

      Based on long term observation and research of substance, unprecedented human sewage nutrient pollution is proliferating unprecedented algae in the ocean. Algae absorbs warmth during photosynthesis. Algae is also matter. Matter retains warmth. Currents can move algae and associaed warmth from one place to another. There is now so much algae in some areas of the ocean that ocean dead zones are increasing in size and number.

      Sanitation and proper sewage treatment is needed worldwide, nothing to do with a CPRS or an ETS. The green colour of chlorophyll making ocean water green or more green is common ocean algae. Red-brown or blue-green algae blooms are smothering coral and causing ‘coral bleaching’.  In estuaries and bays and lagoons algae blooms are smothering and killing seagrass food web nursery habitat, leading to starvation of marine animals and malnutrition in seafood dependent island people. Other algae is gowing on the dead coral.

      It is apparent the whole water system on this planet is in need of management to mitigate existing damage. Instead of a $43 billion optic fibre network in rural Australia there could be a $43 billion water harvesting system to add more water to the Darling River.  The Darling runs from northern Australia to the Southern Ocean.  Coastal ocean estuary ecosystems and fisheries are devastated.

      The water and climate ecosystem/s should be managed by people like farmers who understand nature,  not by economists. Government economists focus on tax spikes involving buying and selling Gods water and trading ‘emissions’ carbon.  Water and existing cleared land is needed for food and fibre production, nothing to do with emissions.  Ocean plant matter is not even taken into account in Vegetation Law, so on what justifiable grounds are decent farmers being bankrupted or lock up?

      Be warned, farmers need to gear up to sustain world food supply, protein especially, now that the world ocean is virtually empty of food.

      Reply

    • Mikko says:

      08:23am | 06/11/10

      Substantial food for thought in the above, John CF. I guess some of your views could be summarised by the phrase, “Don’t blame farmers and CO2”  for climate change, water and depleted fish stocks.

      Reply

    • John C Fairfax says:

      05:32pm | 07/11/10

      That’s correct Mikko. No good blaming famrers for increased electricity cost either.  It’s amazing how government claims need for scienmtific evidence before they can see what is happening and what real solutions may be. None was needed to attack Iraq.  Farmers should just push their own water system proposal through Parliament.

    • Pamela D says:

      10:33am | 14/11/10

      Any country that cannot feed itself is relegated to third world status and this is something the government should be ashamed of.
      Farmers have been a soft target in the past and put down as ‘peasants’ by some.  Those who debase farmers in this way are not worth feeding.
      We will not be walked over any longer.  We have a voice Mr. Burke and you will hear plenty from us.  You call for calm?? when people’s livelihoods and incomes are threatened by a hanbdful of ignorant politicians?? 
      The Labor/Green alliance should be ashamed as it continues to push an agenda that will move Australian farming off-shore - its a disgrace!
      The climate is always changing and trying to tax people out of existence will not do a damn thing to change the climate of the world.

      Reply

    • Ian Yeates says:

      03:45pm | 16/11/10

      I am not convinced that we are experiencing global warming. rather we have climate change.  If Tony Abbott can amend the Wild Rivers legislation then all farmers will know that someone down in the big house cares:)

      Reply

    • Cate Stuart says:

      01:15pm | 24/11/10

      Agree Ian Yeates. Lets hope Tony Abbott can really fill out his “budgie smugglers” and get on with stopping this run away train of money being syphoned of farming sectors, as they are now going bellie up - thanks in part to Julia!
      Wild Rivers, Native vegetation, Wilderness Nominations, Threatened Species,MDBP, Carbon Tax, ETS still on the horizon and finally get the hell away from the RAMSAR agreement with UN!
      Why should Australia let other less civilized countries denigrate Australia to 3rd world status??
      Dont kid yourself if you dont think this is where we are going! Have a look at the number of business’s in receiverships - its in front of our faces!

    • john says:

      04:51pm | 16/11/10

      Persephone commented on ill-educated country people. The socialist always think government education (i.e. propaganda) is the key to social control. It seems to me that many erudite and logical response have come from these “hayseeds.” A student of history must remember that the Bolsheviks public enemy no. 1 were the Kulaks. Those ‘rich’ farmers on the other side of the ranges who were ‘exploiting’ people and threatening the cause of revolution. Now we have the evil ‘irrigators’ exploiting the ‘environment’ (the left don’t care about people anymore) and, guess what, threatening the progress of the climate revolution with their scepticism. So should we send them to re-education labour camps too?( Maybe that will happen when the Murray inevitably dries up again.) Seriously, the agenda of the watermelon left is unreal. No-one seems to cares that we recently discovered senior labour ministers were actually involve in the Petrov affair (spying for Stalin). Most ‘educated’  people in Australia couldn’t tell you the first thing about Stalin or the 20 odd million he killed. The green have policies on “effective family planning” and nobody thinks Chinese communism and forced abortion. Yes, I too was taught about “red under every bed” fear campaigns, but when you consider the great country we live in, one should be a little worried by them dancing around our parliament with the balance of power.  I respect diversity of thought, but the large vote for the greens is IMHO a product of our lefty education system. We are taught that all change is progress and any who stand against it are reactionaries. Younger people says “I’ll vote for the ‘progressive’ party. What the hell does progressive mean? “Oh, anything we tell you it does.”(btw the communist weren’t kind to the gays) The political/ intellectual elite have “rednecked” most of the rest of the population who buck at their version of progress.
      So, as the Murray floods and all the dams overflow, the already devastated farmers have to take more cuts. Well, as history tells us, it was not only the country people who starved to death in communist paradise!

      Reply

    • AB says:

      05:06pm | 16/11/10

      Persephone commented on ill-educated country people. The socialist always think government education (i.e. propaganda) is the key to social control. It seems to me that many erudite and logical response have come from these “hayseeds.” A student of history must remember that the Bolsheviks public enemy no. 1 were the Kulaks. Those ‘rich’ farmers on the other side of the ranges who were ‘exploiting’ people and threatening the cause of revolution. Now we have the evil ‘irrigators’ exploiting the ‘environment’ (the left don’t care about people anymore) and, guess what, threatening the progress of the climate revolution with their scepticism. So should we send them to re-education labour camps too?( Maybe that will happen when the Murray inevitably dries up again.) Seriously, the agenda of the watermelon left is unreal. No-one seems to care that we recently discovered senior labour ministers were actually involve in the Petrov affair (spying for Stalin). Most ‘educated’  people in Australia couldn’t tell you the first thing about Stalin or the 20 million odd he killed. The green have policies on “effective family planning” and nobody thinks Chinese communism and forced abortion. Yes, I too was taught about “red under every bed” fear campaigns, but when you consider the great country we live in, one should be a little worried by them dancing around our parliament with the balance of power.  I respect diversity of thought, but the large vote for the greens is IMHO a product of our lefty education system. We are taught that all change is progress and any who stand against it are reactionaries. Younger people says “I’ll vote for the ‘progressive’ party. What the hell does progressive mean? “Oh, anything we tell you it does.”(btw the communist weren’t kind to the gays) The political/ intellectual elite have “rednecked” most of the rest of the population who buck at their version of progress.
      So, as the Murray floods and all the dams overflow, the already devastated farmers have to take more cuts. Well,as history tells us, it was not only the country people who starved to death in Russia’s communist paradise!

      Reply

    • AB says:

      05:12pm | 16/11/10

      sorry about the double post

      Reply
 
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